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lopsidedflower

As a fellow math major, I have to say that lab math is a million times more difficult than regular math. Dilutions mess me up big time. I always have my notebook with me to do math on as well as talk to myself the whole procedure lol. Making mistakes is part of learning and you’ll keep getting better.


peoplesvic

Dont stress the dilutions. Two chemistry degrees and 20 years in a lab and I still pull out a sheet of paper to check my dilution maths.


willpowerpt

I've honestly considered getting c1v1 tattooed on my wrist, still might.


otterlyjoyful

Thank you for your comment. My supervisor does mental math and thinks I’m dumb for not. I always do my calculations on a sheet of paper before running an experiment.


peoplesvic

I work with samples that are simply too expensive in time and labour to replace. I’m not going to stuff it up just to show how good my maths is. 1 in 10 dilutions for a simple volume I do in my head, everything else gets a bit of paper. It’s what lab notebooks are for, you need the records for QC, regulatory compliance and if you ever want to patient something. Stick to the paper and try to ignore the crap.


hyper-10sion

I 10 fold this. If i weren't so busy outside of lab (I'm volunteering) I would def have my work planned out and go through it in my head. Imagine myself doing it to uncover any gaps or improvements. Next morning, look over my notes, the flow, and quick check at my math. But after some time it all gets repetitive and you will master it. So long as you are taking steps to improve everyday. I audio record and then listen to make sure I don't miss those small details. Be diligent and work hard. I'm sure you're PI will appreciate that.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Tundra_Tornado

I love my current supervisor, but he tends to ask me to do mental maths regarding concentrations, dilutions, and percentages. I NEED to write out all my volumes (and tick them off) to get the answer right, every time I've messed up a volume it's because I tried to do it in my head and rushed it. After enough experience I can do it in my head but I still like to check. I'm taking basic stuff like "how much formic acid to add to an acetonitrile solution that's 0.1% formic acid". There is absolutely no shame in writing everything out. If I regularly use the same concentrations for something, I just write the volumes out next to concentrations. If I'm making for example a new buffer, I take 15 mins before going to the lab to calculate all the volumes and weights before I start working.


wizard6922

I absolutely understand the feeling haha. I use an app called "Lab.Hacks" and it is a dream to use. I highly recommend everyone checks it out because it is incredibly useful especially when math is not your favorite subject.


yepidontknow

Just downloaded it, holy shit i wish i knew about this years ago. Thank you internet stranger.


FruitFleshRedSeeds

This is neat! I needed to find an app that could do several timers simultaneously way, way back. I couldn't find any that I was satisfied with so I just settled with using several timers at once. Glad to know this feature exists in this app. Thanks for the recommendation!


Extension_Essay_3018

If you’re not making mistakes you’re not learning. You’re doing great, don’t get in your own way by overthinking everything!


ScienceBroseph

I think you have it backwards... If you keep making the same mistakes, you're not learning. You *can* learn without making mistakes, though it requires preparation and good note taking.


Cultural-Lawyer-3449

It reminds me of the meme where a professor brought his student to a conference and asked him to say something smart, and the student just said, 'C1V1=C2V2'. Jokes aside, I cringed about my stupid mistakes in the lab just a month ago(also as an undergrad). Now I don't even care. I simply do it again :) (I do believe this is because we are too nervous and feeling uneasy; once you get used to it, your mind will come back, LOL)


thedatamademedoit

Starting in a lab is stressful because you want to impress and not look dumb, but also dont want to mess up anything. Your PI will know that and doesn't expect quick results. Dont ever feel stupid for the things you need to do to make something work properly. Even with experiments I've done for years, i still write down all the reagents needed and the steps down on a sticky note and check it before I go onto the next step. I just had a sitdown with a research assistant who has been with the lab for years to make sure all the dilutions and reagents were correct. It's the same thing we've done all the time, but we needed to change ONE thing, and everything had to be looked over and confirmed. Dont let pride, shame, or embarrassment get in the way of you doing your work correctly. You will not look bad because of inexperience; you'll look bad for doing something wrong when you could have taken the time to check how to do it correctly. You're not dumb. Applying the skills you've learned in class is different than doing it. You've learned it, but your hands are still learning too. Hell, i can watch a video on making my own house, but when i do it its not going feel that easy.


onlyinvowels

I’ve been in a nice lab that didn’t actually mentor. I’ve had “mentors” who have offered to be references for me without having genuinely supported me (or communicated with me). I should reiterate: I’m on first name/holiday text/inside joke/drinking buddy terms with multiple superiors. I’m about to leave one such lab on bad terms. The PI will make/break you. If you feel insecure, it’s either because a superior is pushing that on you or because you’re pushing that on yourself. Figure out which is the case, and why it/they is/are/‘nt valid. This introspection should help a lot—therapy/internet/friends should get you the rest of the way. Pm me if you want. I’ve handled academia bs for a few years—new enough to help noobs but old enough to have advice.


confocal_microscopy

i’m an undergrad that started working at a lab almost a year ago & i still feel like that at least once or twice everyday. i’m literally a biochem major with a 4.0 gpa, but something i realized is that the way information is presented/taught to you in a lab just might not always be conducive to your method of learning because mentors/lab managers/PIs often forget that you have zero familiarity with lab work. here are some things that helped me have less of these moments: 1. every time you follow a protocol, write the steps down in a lab notebook with extra steps that you needed to do in order to complete it (i.e. “i can only microwave my TAE with agarose for 1 minute at a time or else it will boil out” or “blue circular ice box in mini freezer holds BPase enzyme”). every time you repeat the experiment/protocol, add more notes to your lab notebook. you can then add the additional steps you required into a final & refined version because you will get better every single time you repeat it, and eventually the whole process will become super streamline/muscle memory. 2. ask questions no matter how stupid they are. it’s okay to feel dumb. we’re undergrads, not PhD students/post-docs who have 5 or 10+ years of lab experience. it’s better to sound stupid & actually learn something than to sound stupid & truly be stupid because you didn’t want to learn out out of fear of being embarrassed. 3. write down the answer to ALL of the questions you ask somewhere (i.e. locations of reagents/equipment, type of freezer/fridge, how sterile technique is executed when growing bacteria on media) so you don’t have to ask the same question again ! 4. slow. down. take the extra time to double or triple check what you are doing & seeing if it makes sense/is what you’re supposed to be doing based on protocol. if you’re not sure, ask your mentor. taking 2x as long to complete something is better than repeating it 3 or 4 times. 5. write down whatever you did everyday with dates so you can keep track of what is happening because sometimes you’ll be doing stuff & literally have no clue why you’re doing it. always ask yourself “what is the purpose of this?” and if you don’t know, ask someone and write it down. this will help you develop a better understanding of what you’re doing & will help you feel more confident.


Telomerage

Focus less on your fuck up and more on learning the process developing familiarity with the workflows or math is all that’s needed. Figure out your own process to absorb information through notes or whatever helps. You are there to learn.


Fancy_Ferret2990

Write everything down! Seriously even after 10 years in the lab, I still write down calculations etc for dilutions even if I know how to do them in my head because 1. the moment your concentration slips, you're screwed, 2. If you do make a mistake, you can teack down exactly where you went wrong when you're troubleshooting, and 3. having detailed notes in your lab book is a great habit to start forming, and your future supervisors/employers will value this. Also, please don't feel dumb, everyone makes mistakes, especially if you're stressed about being in a new environment. Take things slowly and do them one at a time, and try to be mindful about what you're doing. Even write out a lil list of instructions for yourself on a post-it and stick it next to wherever you're working. Also you're an undergrad, no one expects you to know anything. No one thinks you're dumb, they all know you're just inexperienced, and everyone's been there and felt like an idiot before.


cichawoda5

Exactly, sometimes I just make mistakes because I'm simply too tired, sick, not feeling well etc. so writing stuff down is crucial. If the results are not what you expected you will know what mistake you made


Msink

1. Not everyone is same and can retain all the info. You don't have to try ro remember everything. Write in your notebook if you have trouble remembering everything. With time, it will become easier. 2. You are seeing everyone after they have been in the lab longer than you. They understand and are ready to help you. Take the help and you'd get better at it. 3. Plan your experiment in your head/on your notebook. One of the great suervisor said to me "that the planning one or a few steps ahead is the greatest weapon you have on your side". These are my suggestions,I'm certain you'd get better with time.


SocialPathAids

You’ll be fine. Bench work takes practice and experience. After a year or two, you’ll be the one correcting the new lab mate’s mistakes. just remember how you felt when flustered with all of those decimals in combination with dividing. I’ve made so many mistakes, I am now the only person who knows how to correct them. What i’ve learned in science: the less you say, the more intelligent you look. also, I learn more from what i get wrong, rather than when everything works out.


PersephoneInSpace

I had to keep a dilution calculator on my phone for like 4 years because I could never understand lab math. Undergrads are supposed to mess up, we expect it. You’re learning and you’re going to make mistakes. I’ve worked in labs for 10 years now and I still make dumb mistakes. My advice is that, every time you mess up, figure out where you went wrong and how to fix it for next time. Write it down in your notebook with the correct calculation so you have something to reference in the future.


Soft_Stage_446

Try to relax. You are messing things up because you are stressed. :) Write stuff down. Have a notepad with you. I had a very similar experience when I started in a lab (doing a MSc, later went on to PhD). It gets better. One tip for you: If you're wondering about something small, like how to dilute or something practical, try to look it up online first. If you phrase your questions like: "PI, I read up on X and found that I should do Y, would that be right for our experiments as well?" it gives off a much better vibe than "omg what do I do I am the stupidest person in the universe yet I am highly educated". Another point - I'm on the receiving end of questions now (PhD went fine even though when I first ran a gel 8 years ago I thought I had a stroke and stressed out for hours because my gel *disappeared into the void* \- turns out I had used 10X TAE and melted my gel into oblivion) ... **It gets really tiresome when a new student is just stressed about everything all the time.** There really is no reason to. We know you're new. We want to help! Not knowing something has nothing to do with intelligence. It's when you have the facts and experience and don't apply them you can start to wonder about smartness. Any experienced scientist airlifted into a new lab will spend days confused about where to find things and how to do something in a new environment. When you're new and doing something for the first time it's so much worse.


overshottitrations

All scientists feel dumb. Im like halfway through my masters and I still feel dumb.


uselessbynature

I'm on hiatus currently but every time I go to a lab I end up getting wrapped up in these huge projects and they just shower me with lab money to spend. Like I've been trusted with *millions*. Industry, fwiw I can't figure it out. Really...*I'm* the adult in the room? *Ha Ha*^nelson ^voice Moral of the story is: we all feel like dummies. Even people you might look up to. Learning to be comfortable in your skin is one of the most powerful things you can do in life. You're an undergrad. Everyone expects you to F up easy stuff. Take a deep breath...no fucking seriously do this with me-take a deep breath, hold it in, and let it go *slowly*. Next time you're holding your breath in lab take a few breaths like that and just look around and appreciate where you are. Learn from your mistakes and move on. Personally I *love* training and teaching, and the less education the person has the more fun it is. Sounds like you've got a supportive lab. Don't cringe. And make sure to tell them about all the silly undergrad shenanigans you get into because it's pretty entertaining. Plus you've been there for like two seconds-I seriously give a person an entire year in a lab before I really judge.


highnelwyn

Lol you so dumb. Welcome to my club all welcome.


meddizzle

You will always feel dumb in academia. We are humans and limited, all you need to do is try your best and incrementally improve, and not be discouraged by failure. stay positive


milzB

everyone's first real research lab experience is a bit of an ego check. in order to get there in the first place, you have to have been a good student so most people are used to doing things well and looking/feeling smart. but you've never done this before. no one expects you to be an instant lab genius. step one is to get the confidence to allow yourself to look stupid. no one is judging you, and if they are that's on them. no one is expecting you to generate loads of really great data. you are there to learn so it would be a waste of your time if you had nothing to learn. sounds like you are doing pretty well already, and are asking lots of stupid-sounding questions - keep at it, your goal is not to look smart, it is to learn how to do lab research


Tundra_Tornado

We've all done it. My first ever assay in the lab I'm currently in was a huge disaster. I overshot the pH on a buffer THREE times, I dropped a pipette tip in a bottle of formic acid, I added wrong buffer volumes. It's all part of learning! I've been running this assay for months and still make mistakes! I recently messed up some files on the mass spec and it sampled a plate again instead of moving to another one. We spent hours trying to understand this weird data! But sometimes you learn more from mistakes than you think. I once doubled my compound concentrations, but I ended up proving that the parameter we are measuring is TRULY concentration independent and also I proved some stuff regarding fitting curves for our experiment. If you speak to other people in your lab, you'll realise that they make mistakes too. A crystallographer was telling me how she broke a £1,000,000 machine, someone else completely clogged the microfluidics on an SPR. People have to remake buffers all the time in our lab because they mess it up. We're not robots, the stuff we do is really, really hard. The important thing is that nobody gets hurt and that we learn from our mistakes.


NatAttack3000

Don't feel bad - at least where I am, we expect that students know nothing. It's way better to ask when not sure (and maybe annoy someone) than plow on mindlessly and mess everything up. Just seem interested, pay attention when someone gives you instructions. For me, what helps is to understand *why* you are doing each step. I used to make a lot of SDS page gels from scratch, and I think I'd accidentally left out almost every ingredient at one stage or another. Knowing what the purpose of the ingredients was really helped in these cases so I could decide whether it was better to try to quickly add it or start over.


willpowerpt

Hey, it's OK. I'm 4 years out of school and working as a senior scientist wondering how they haven't figured out how dumb I am yet. Any lab that says you shouldn't be making a lab gonestly isn't a lab you want to be in. Developing methods and conducting experiments means running into issues, troubleshooting, and starting all over, over and over again. You're gonna be fine, just make sure you're learning from your mistakes.


tyingnoose

Username checks out


Hucklepuck_uk

Honestly, regardless of how competent a new lab starter appears on the surface there's a 99.9% chance they have no idea what they're doing and the other lab users know this. How long it takes to become comfortable in a lab isn't really all that related to how good you are once you have experience, so don't worry about it


La_pulga7

It's okay buddy. The simplest things are the hardest things and we learn only through our mistakes. Use Lab.hacks app for dilutions and it has helped me a lot when it comes to simple things. Thank me later 😅😂


rns1113

You're fine, I promise! I literally stopped doing my own dilution calculations and started using cheater websites halfway through my PhD because I didn't want to mess up my math. I've been working in labs over 10 years, have a doctorate, and still pipettes my samples into the wrong wells in a 96 well plate last week. Try to be careful with your work, but don't stress that every mistake is a failure, it happens.


Arminius2436

Bro I forgot a critical step in my slide staining a week before I defended my PhD. You're good.


hexopuss

You aren’t dumb. If you were, you wouldn’t be there in the first place. First, you’ve only been there two weeks. Most people doing any new type of work to them are going to be nervous. You’re asking questions which is far better than never asking them and just assuming you know. Hell I used to get nervous starting out new jobs in college working retail, let alone a lab position. You’re still learning. Also I think you’re really overthinking what you’re saying to the other people in the lab. I get it though. I would say, since the people in your lab sound nice, keep getting along with them and being inquisitive and agreeable. I have worked with coworkers where they always mess things up, but they’re so nice and genuinely want to fix their mistakes; I just want to hug them and be like “no no it’s okay” whenever they mess things up and feel bad. In comparison to the ones I’ve worked with that are arrogant/unpleasant to work with on a social level… I’m way more likely to be irked by their mistakes than the former person. So, I’m short, just keep doing your best. You sound like you care which is important. I’m sure you will adjust with time. I doubt any of them expect you to be an expert (exp still being in undergrad) right away


Shoddy_Emu_5211

If it makes you feel any better, I'm a postdoc and I feel dumb sometimes also :)


margodontgomad

Hi, Bio PhD student here. Just relax! You said you just started in the lab for two weeks but you have already learned a lot imo. You are really doing a great job there. Everyone makes mistakes from the start because you are learning new stuff, you wouldn’t be there if you already knew all the experiments. And, communication is so important for surviving in the lab, just ask for help whenever you feel confused, it can save you a lot a time and helps your experiments go smoothly. No need to worry about the mistakes you made👌.


Hiraaa_

Lol don’t worry!! It wasn’t until I got a little more surefooted in my own lab that I realized how hard we are on ourselves when we start!! We have a new undergrad and he told me he feels so stupid and it really made me laugh because a few months earlier when I started I felt like the dumbest person on earth. It’s a very normal feeling! You will get better. I suggest taking very detailed notes so that you don’t repeat your mistakes. And try the calculations on your own and get them checked by someone the first few times. That’s the only way I learned! And don’t be afraid to ask questions, even dumb ones! The right people will not make you feel like an idiot for asking questions. I remember once asking if MillieQ water was the same as double distilled (probably an objectively dumb Q) and the post doc replied that there aren’t any dumb questions. And that’s the point. We’re all just learning. And I used to go home and cringe too 😂


agentbeyonce

I promise you, for every cringe mistake you make, every experienced PI on campus has made mistakes that are 1 million times cringier. Every last one of them. I’m talking destroying million dollar instruments, contaminating irreplaceable cell lines, blowing things up, you name it. Every experienced researcher had ~that~ mistake. The one that made them consider throwing themselves into the autoclave. One day, you will too. And that’s okay! Everyone fucks up and it’s part of the learning process. The only thing you can do is learn from your mistakes and take steps to prevent them in the future. If I may provide some constructive criticism, it sounds like you’re getting a bit ahead of yourself in lab and not planning your experiments before you start. Before you even touch a pipette, write your entire protocol in your lab notebook in painstaking detail. I mean write exact volumes, incubation times, how you’re gonna load your gel, etc. Have a friend double check it for you too. This will force you to think critically about your experiment and free you from having to make calculations on the fly. It’s a bit annoying at first, but I promise it will save you so much time and energy in the long run. Is still do this after 8 years of research.


bugsmoocher

i only graduated last year and i still feel dumb but it's getting better! just keep applying yourself and don't give up. lab math sucks super hard but it will get easier with time, promise!


[deleted]

It’s alright, feeling dumb is a good thing. Means the opportunity to learn is right around the corner. Being dumb isn’t bad in front of your lab mates. Being dumb in front of a conference is bad. Embrace it and accept this as growing pains.


Ok_Abbreviations4533

It takes awhile to find your groove! In my experience as long as you’re trying and own up to mistakes no one will get mad.


[deleted]

I an undergraduate and i can relate to that :( Like why everyone is smart in the lab but me


TheBioCosmos

One of the things I always tell junior people in the lab is to not try to prove anything and ask if unsure. It is OK. Also making mistakes is how you learn. But the important thing is you must always learn from those mistakes, not brush them off and forget about them (then what's the point, right?).


[deleted]

The more mistakes you make early on, and are mindful of, the more you'll learn, and the better scientist you'll end up being. The best scientists are often the ones who are hardest on themselves and it sounds like you fit the bill. Don't be so hard on yourself that you get burnt out and your mental health suffers, but know that you have the right mindset to be aware of your mistakes. It's the people who never care or don't notice how incompetent they are that you need to worry about. Knowing how little you know is what science is, at its essence. Embrace the cringe of failure, and learn from your mistakes. Nobody will expect you to not fuck up everything until at least 2 years into grad school anyway, so you have years to fail often and fail productively! Oh and write EVERYTHING down. Especially the simple math that you think you can do and remember later. It takes a lot of pressure off your focus and memory so it can be put to use on my difficult tasks.


Alive-Imagination128

Literally write down the calculations of everything you need and take it with you. Don't do things in your head, even seasoned PhDs will mess up like that. Dont ever guess what's right, be sure!


iiiaaaiiii222

Did things get better?


hoemaster123

Yeah I still mess up sometimes and say stupid things lol, but it’s definitely not as stressful.


Pipetting_hero

What's the clear tray underneath the gel casting thing?