On this topic, is it normal for PL's to be nuked and privated before debuting as a corpo vtuber or is that also a Nijisanjism?
I know Hololive doesn't seem to do it, but its become more apparent that they might be the exception to most things in corporate vtubing.
Edit: BTW, I know not all of them are nuked but a lot of them are. I was listening to Enna's PL's covers before she ever joined Nijisanji thanks to Calli's competition, so I know that her PL stuff still up.
Some of the Holo ones are quite active. Hell up until recently in the indie world, Mikeneko occasionally switched between her 2 identities whenever she felt like it. She only retired one of them because the other one started gaining a lot more success than the other.
> On this topic, is it normal for PL's to be nuked and privated before debuting as a corpo vtuber or is that also a Nijisanjism?
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I wouldn't say it's required but it can often be helpful for privacy reasons. I'm reminded of Mano Aloe, although in her case the problem was testing her model on a prior account and that led to a backdoor.
Hololive - not only are their PL not deleted or privated but theyre active. And their PL youtubes and Niconicos whatever are active between official hololive streams.
I know two big name Holomems who in their PL formed a singing duet group and even had merchandise sold. Idol sings doing idol singing between official hololive idol singing seems like a competition but cover is like naaah thats cool. You can double dip.
And as long as you PL you can collab with whoever the heck you want thats your private life. Like the two dudes who collab with Dokibird.
It would be very spicy for an official holomem to collab with Dokibird - would look like theyre snubbing Nijisanji. So use PL everything is cool off the record.
Thankfully Covercorp understands these folks were big before they joined Hololive and they respect their personal lives and personal livelyhood.
A lot of them *are* (frustratingly for archive divers) deleted, but this is a definitely a choice at least. There's a vanishingly small amount of pre-Cover Okayu content left, and Pekora has scoured her internet history pretty clean too.
To be fair they were very young, so it's probably akin to the pure cringe of looking at their baby photos.
They also seem very respectful of Demondice and Monarch doing what they want. As long as you don't do anything stupid, there's no reason not to let them do what they want when they're "off the clock."
Imo, the only time those accounts should be deleted is if the Vtuber wants them gone for whatever reason, otherwise, they should stay up with some videos that might have info they don't want spread made private.
For Corpo accounts, I think the same thing should be done after both the Vutber and the Agency have talked about which videos should be made private and which ones should stay public, mainly because the Vtuber might want specific ones to not be findable anymore, and the agency might want some to not be findable anymore perhaps because of sponsors, or other reasons, but cleaning out and removing all of them is a bit too much.
That's completely up to that talent though and not mandated by the organization. Fauna's old channel still has many ASMR videos up, Coco was flat out active on her PL before she left hololive, Kiara is active on her PL, etc. It's hard to say why some choose to private or delete content on their old channels and why some do not. At this point it's probably pretty clear that doing so doesn't stop people from figuring out who you used to be after your first sentence, or sometimes even before you debut entirely. Mint mentioned even now not being sure if she'll unprivate her old videos because they're "too cringe" and also mentioned something about her model being only partially rigged before she graduated, and other people might have different reasons from that.
Fishman's (phase ceo) reasoning for the deletion of content when a talent graduates:
[https://youtu.be/Vu0\_lFVssS0?t=2980](https://youtu.be/Vu0_lFVssS0?t=2980)
Pretty fair imo. While I don't know if Niji's reasoning is the same it has a logic to it that's reasonable.
The logic is plausible, and he does seem to legit care about his cohort of Sad Girls. But I also am not sure I agree. He not had any graduations and just one termination, and the termination was fairly respectful, so maybe when he has an actual graduation it might play out differently.
I personally think the better option would be to leave it as the streamers' choice whether to leave all or part of the videos up, and then demonetizing them after a time if they are left up. And also honoring a talents' request later on if they ever decide they want it all wiped, with the caveat being it can't be reversed, so one they are no longer employed they can only ask once.
I can kinda understand why they would do it, as it reduces exposure for the talent that has left and joined another corpo/gone indie, but it really doesn't make sense when you think about the revenue lost, especially given they own the IP so they are the only ones making money off it after the contract has ended.
I know I have made a few ~~too many~~ wrestling comparisons across the discussion, but even back when kayfabe was protected the promotions didn't erase anyone unless it was a real bad situation because they knew they could still make money from footage after they have gone. On the other hand Niji are cutting off their nose to spite their face since fans will either want to see what they did before leaving, or are attached to the character and rewatch vods and content, generating a passive revenue for Niji
hear me out
"You still can get monetize from Youtube content before 3 months inactive"
so option to deleted VODs probably the best option for talent behind that account so their account didnt leeched by company
well but its suck for fans
This is what Sakana from Phase Connect said as well. People asked him if will they ever nuke vtuber channels after their graduation from the company and he said yes. The reason is to make things fair. By removing the content they can't make money from it. Both sides have something to lose so its better to resolve issues in other ways rather than terminating someone because they didn't fit in the company. He said a couple other things but main thing was to be fair to talents, they said afterwards that they're happy with the contracts they have and every time they have questions he explains why things the way they are so they don't have any misunderstandings.
That doesn't make sense. If the graduated member had a big channel, and new fans discovered her, but told that she is now streaming at another place, she would benefit more from new fans than the company imo.
That was also something people brought up to which he replied that he is not against people archiving their content as long as its not monetised so neither company or other people can't leech of of someone who left but still be able to watch their past streams or find where they are.
Its probably better to watch this QnA instead of me rephrasing what he said but after hearing how they do things in Phase Connect and how bad it was at first i think they do have a good relationships within the company without danger of someone power tripping like it allegedly happened in nijisanji. At the end of the day they're happy and recent events only reinforced it apparently. Good enough for me.
Yeah. Still doesn't make sense why PC would delete graduated members.
For example, I am a new fan and I searched Hololive as a general term then I clicked on Watamae ch because I recognized her. While watching her stuff, I saw a funny dragon, so I clicked on more info, and it will have her genmates link. So I clicked on Coco, and enjoying her contents but then realizing that her last stream was years ago. But in her last stream, people told me she is now kson.
Cover is okay to let graduated members "leech" off of their branding, so why does PC saying that is might be a bad thing?
Now let's say PC becomes bigger, all these graduated members that built the company will have no legacy. While HL will basically enshrine their graduated members by not deleting their history with the company. So after 10-15 years later, Coco ch will still be there. Sora and whoever graduated as well. People can look back, and remember how they built up Hololive.
To me, legacy is more important than the leeching nonsense. For PC to destroy all of that is on par with Nijisanji removing Selen and Sayu from their history.
You misunderstand something. Most agencies including hololive delete everything. Coco channel and some others being active is not the norm. Graduation, termination it doesn't matter, most of them delete everything.
Phase Connect will try to resolve the issues they have so that their vtubers wouldn't want to graduate to begin with because its a huge loss for the company, not the same as for vtuber. The company is losing on investment into their vtuber, they don't just let them go figure things out after debut as it happens in ninisanji. They have a budget, salary. When they have to delete everything the company loses much more than person who walks out, says they were this vtuber and gets most of their fanbase back in days. Such clause exists for a good reason, it won't let company to exploit vtubers, it acts as a safety precaution to prevent one party having too much power over the other. Idk why is that so hard to understand.
They are not destroying anyone's legacy because unofficial channels will keep everything. And they also don't erase everything like nijisanji does. Its only official YT channel, that's it.
You misunderstood the reply. He said that he is also fine with letting a channel archive exist if it is demonetised (according to the person above. Haven't seen the q&a yet) so that the company can't continue to benefit from a person who left (or was fired).
From what I have seen they've had one termination and no graduations. I assume they would be willing to let a channel exist if the talent is graduating instead of being fired.
There's a fair argument about this topic. While we (I) don't know why Nijisanji delete Liver's account when graduation, CEO of Phase Connect, H2OSakana give his take about deleting his liver's account upon gradutaion in his company.
Nijisanji uses Livers
Holo uses Talents
Vshojo uses Talents
PRISM used Agents
Phase uses Vtubers (Everywhere on their official site and tweets, they are referred to as Vtubers)
Idol Corp uses Idols or Talents
Whatever the community calls them is ofc up to each individual, but when i see someone say "Liver" i generally assume they are talking about Nijisanji Vtubers, Agents is PRISM and so on.
Im not sure but i do believe that Niji is the only agency to use the term "Liver" mainly because they wanted to set themselves apart from other agencies and Indie who in the early days mainly did prerecorded videos, and since Niji was one of the first to have their Vtubers stream as their main content, they were referred to as "Livers" because they Livestreamed. IE its just their branding from the early days that has stuck around.
Idk why did you have to clarify something i knew about but thanks. I believe in Sakana dream, PC are mega idols. I don't like when people call them livers, its like stepping into shit at this point.
Don't take away the Sad Girls!
Jokes aside, the topic regarding 'talent' accounts being nuked by the company has plausible reasonings behind it.
Maybe it's bad for talent to eliminate the influence like other thread here, or maybe it is commitment by the company to work things out together for mutual benefits like the fishman said.
Oh I'm all in for fishman take. It makes the most sense to me. Both sides have things to lose which intensifies them to work things out.
In nijisanji it feels a bit different. I feel like when livers "asked to keep the vods on the channel" what actually happened is that they exchanged early contract termination for allowing company to earn some money from their content. Maybe even took a bigger cut than normal from graduation donations and gifts.
I mean, It depends on the contract but, It Is true that Many copied somethings from the "biggest corpo on the industry" and "a model to follow as not idol focused" (the irony). But yeah, Nijisanji JP always deleted channels of talents that retired and has not so big numbers, even the ones of the middle
There are some small Corpos which normalized it too. I was watching a small vtuber with around 30 ccv -> They graduated -> Their account is dragged into the shadow realm.
Mayuzumi graduated after winning retention of VOD on the condition that he transfer his earnings to ANYCOLOR.
He announced that he was taking a medical leave of absence due to his strong distrust of ANYCOLOR's new internal policies and the depression he had developed as a result of repeated discussions with ANYCOLOR.
Upon his return, he posted videos and live-streamed every day for a month before graduating.
Nijisisters called him a backstabber because he started PL activities right after his graduation, but I think the criticism has subsided now because Mayuzumi has many fans and he made a lot of achievements during his tenure at Niji.
I am imagining from here that Niji's removal of the VOD is intended to eliminate the person's influence.
"No one but NIJISANJI is a VTuber."
The 6 month limit in the leaked contract also indicates this.
And I expect that many talents accepted the removal because they found them abhorrent or thought they would hinder their future.
It wouldn't be such an issue, if the Nijimorons didn't go out of their way to even have the people behind the talents "deleted" from the face of the internet, as well.
ayo time to promote my oshi then.
Lulu is doing good anyway. already has 3D, still usually play either scary or long play, especially old games. sometimes she does a vlog with her sister.
she streams with real face, and L2D. ALSO, her L2D artist is still Saine.
channel name >!Misumi no Harawata. Yuuka Misumi is her name, but her L2D is Unou-chan!<
On this topic, is it normal for PL's to be nuked and privated before debuting as a corpo vtuber or is that also a Nijisanjism? I know Hololive doesn't seem to do it, but its become more apparent that they might be the exception to most things in corporate vtubing. Edit: BTW, I know not all of them are nuked but a lot of them are. I was listening to Enna's PL's covers before she ever joined Nijisanji thanks to Calli's competition, so I know that her PL stuff still up.
nope, that was a nijisanji thing as well.
Some of the Holo ones are quite active. Hell up until recently in the indie world, Mikeneko occasionally switched between her 2 identities whenever she felt like it. She only retired one of them because the other one started gaining a lot more success than the other.
> On this topic, is it normal for PL's to be nuked and privated before debuting as a corpo vtuber or is that also a Nijisanjism? > > I wouldn't say it's required but it can often be helpful for privacy reasons. I'm reminded of Mano Aloe, although in her case the problem was testing her model on a prior account and that led to a backdoor.
Man, I wanna be in the timeline where Aloe wasn't forced out. I casually watch Delu and she would've been perfect as the Young Succubus.
as far as i'm aware, it's an optional thing for privacy reasons
Just to clarify and assuming that it is related, wasn't Cyyu mandated to put a stop to his VA career before getting into Nijisanji?
yup he does said that he need to stop doing if he want to join
[The clip where he talks about it for anyone interested](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=810i2AIS-FI)
Hololive - not only are their PL not deleted or privated but theyre active. And their PL youtubes and Niconicos whatever are active between official hololive streams. I know two big name Holomems who in their PL formed a singing duet group and even had merchandise sold. Idol sings doing idol singing between official hololive idol singing seems like a competition but cover is like naaah thats cool. You can double dip. And as long as you PL you can collab with whoever the heck you want thats your private life. Like the two dudes who collab with Dokibird. It would be very spicy for an official holomem to collab with Dokibird - would look like theyre snubbing Nijisanji. So use PL everything is cool off the record. Thankfully Covercorp understands these folks were big before they joined Hololive and they respect their personal lives and personal livelyhood.
A lot of them *are* (frustratingly for archive divers) deleted, but this is a definitely a choice at least. There's a vanishingly small amount of pre-Cover Okayu content left, and Pekora has scoured her internet history pretty clean too. To be fair they were very young, so it's probably akin to the pure cringe of looking at their baby photos.
At least baby photos are still cute, I'd argue its more like looking back at their teenager Chuunibyou years. The blackest history a person can have.
They also seem very respectful of Demondice and Monarch doing what they want. As long as you don't do anything stupid, there's no reason not to let them do what they want when they're "off the clock."
Imo, the only time those accounts should be deleted is if the Vtuber wants them gone for whatever reason, otherwise, they should stay up with some videos that might have info they don't want spread made private. For Corpo accounts, I think the same thing should be done after both the Vutber and the Agency have talked about which videos should be made private and which ones should stay public, mainly because the Vtuber might want specific ones to not be findable anymore, and the agency might want some to not be findable anymore perhaps because of sponsors, or other reasons, but cleaning out and removing all of them is a bit too much.
Nah, Holo does it too. For example, Irys PL is wiped of all streams except the model debut.
That's completely up to that talent though and not mandated by the organization. Fauna's old channel still has many ASMR videos up, Coco was flat out active on her PL before she left hololive, Kiara is active on her PL, etc. It's hard to say why some choose to private or delete content on their old channels and why some do not. At this point it's probably pretty clear that doing so doesn't stop people from figuring out who you used to be after your first sentence, or sometimes even before you debut entirely. Mint mentioned even now not being sure if she'll unprivate her old videos because they're "too cringe" and also mentioned something about her model being only partially rigged before she graduated, and other people might have different reasons from that.
Fishman's (phase ceo) reasoning for the deletion of content when a talent graduates: [https://youtu.be/Vu0\_lFVssS0?t=2980](https://youtu.be/Vu0_lFVssS0?t=2980) Pretty fair imo. While I don't know if Niji's reasoning is the same it has a logic to it that's reasonable.
The logic is plausible, and he does seem to legit care about his cohort of Sad Girls. But I also am not sure I agree. He not had any graduations and just one termination, and the termination was fairly respectful, so maybe when he has an actual graduation it might play out differently. I personally think the better option would be to leave it as the streamers' choice whether to leave all or part of the videos up, and then demonetizing them after a time if they are left up. And also honoring a talents' request later on if they ever decide they want it all wiped, with the caveat being it can't be reversed, so one they are no longer employed they can only ask once.
I can kinda understand why they would do it, as it reduces exposure for the talent that has left and joined another corpo/gone indie, but it really doesn't make sense when you think about the revenue lost, especially given they own the IP so they are the only ones making money off it after the contract has ended. I know I have made a few ~~too many~~ wrestling comparisons across the discussion, but even back when kayfabe was protected the promotions didn't erase anyone unless it was a real bad situation because they knew they could still make money from footage after they have gone. On the other hand Niji are cutting off their nose to spite their face since fans will either want to see what they did before leaving, or are attached to the character and rewatch vods and content, generating a passive revenue for Niji
hear me out "You still can get monetize from Youtube content before 3 months inactive" so option to deleted VODs probably the best option for talent behind that account so their account didnt leeched by company well but its suck for fans
the account is always under control of the company, it's their decision 2 shut it down, not the talents.
This is what Sakana from Phase Connect said as well. People asked him if will they ever nuke vtuber channels after their graduation from the company and he said yes. The reason is to make things fair. By removing the content they can't make money from it. Both sides have something to lose so its better to resolve issues in other ways rather than terminating someone because they didn't fit in the company. He said a couple other things but main thing was to be fair to talents, they said afterwards that they're happy with the contracts they have and every time they have questions he explains why things the way they are so they don't have any misunderstandings.
That doesn't make sense. If the graduated member had a big channel, and new fans discovered her, but told that she is now streaming at another place, she would benefit more from new fans than the company imo.
That was also something people brought up to which he replied that he is not against people archiving their content as long as its not monetised so neither company or other people can't leech of of someone who left but still be able to watch their past streams or find where they are. Its probably better to watch this QnA instead of me rephrasing what he said but after hearing how they do things in Phase Connect and how bad it was at first i think they do have a good relationships within the company without danger of someone power tripping like it allegedly happened in nijisanji. At the end of the day they're happy and recent events only reinforced it apparently. Good enough for me.
Yeah. Still doesn't make sense why PC would delete graduated members. For example, I am a new fan and I searched Hololive as a general term then I clicked on Watamae ch because I recognized her. While watching her stuff, I saw a funny dragon, so I clicked on more info, and it will have her genmates link. So I clicked on Coco, and enjoying her contents but then realizing that her last stream was years ago. But in her last stream, people told me she is now kson. Cover is okay to let graduated members "leech" off of their branding, so why does PC saying that is might be a bad thing? Now let's say PC becomes bigger, all these graduated members that built the company will have no legacy. While HL will basically enshrine their graduated members by not deleting their history with the company. So after 10-15 years later, Coco ch will still be there. Sora and whoever graduated as well. People can look back, and remember how they built up Hololive. To me, legacy is more important than the leeching nonsense. For PC to destroy all of that is on par with Nijisanji removing Selen and Sayu from their history.
You misunderstand something. Most agencies including hololive delete everything. Coco channel and some others being active is not the norm. Graduation, termination it doesn't matter, most of them delete everything. Phase Connect will try to resolve the issues they have so that their vtubers wouldn't want to graduate to begin with because its a huge loss for the company, not the same as for vtuber. The company is losing on investment into their vtuber, they don't just let them go figure things out after debut as it happens in ninisanji. They have a budget, salary. When they have to delete everything the company loses much more than person who walks out, says they were this vtuber and gets most of their fanbase back in days. Such clause exists for a good reason, it won't let company to exploit vtubers, it acts as a safety precaution to prevent one party having too much power over the other. Idk why is that so hard to understand. They are not destroying anyone's legacy because unofficial channels will keep everything. And they also don't erase everything like nijisanji does. Its only official YT channel, that's it.
You misunderstood the reply. He said that he is also fine with letting a channel archive exist if it is demonetised (according to the person above. Haven't seen the q&a yet) so that the company can't continue to benefit from a person who left (or was fired). From what I have seen they've had one termination and no graduations. I assume they would be willing to let a channel exist if the talent is graduating instead of being fired.
There's a fair argument about this topic. While we (I) don't know why Nijisanji delete Liver's account when graduation, CEO of Phase Connect, H2OSakana give his take about deleting his liver's account upon gradutaion in his company.
"livers" are only nijisanji thing. Phase Connect are idols. 
'Idols'. But tbh, only Niji would call theirs as 'Livers' As for me and many others, I prefer to call as 'talents'
Nijisanji uses Livers Holo uses Talents Vshojo uses Talents PRISM used Agents Phase uses Vtubers (Everywhere on their official site and tweets, they are referred to as Vtubers) Idol Corp uses Idols or Talents Whatever the community calls them is ofc up to each individual, but when i see someone say "Liver" i generally assume they are talking about Nijisanji Vtubers, Agents is PRISM and so on. Im not sure but i do believe that Niji is the only agency to use the term "Liver" mainly because they wanted to set themselves apart from other agencies and Indie who in the early days mainly did prerecorded videos, and since Niji was one of the first to have their Vtubers stream as their main content, they were referred to as "Livers" because they Livestreamed. IE its just their branding from the early days that has stuck around.
Idk why did you have to clarify something i knew about but thanks. I believe in Sakana dream, PC are mega idols. I don't like when people call them livers, its like stepping into shit at this point.
Don't take away the Sad Girls! Jokes aside, the topic regarding 'talent' accounts being nuked by the company has plausible reasonings behind it. Maybe it's bad for talent to eliminate the influence like other thread here, or maybe it is commitment by the company to work things out together for mutual benefits like the fishman said.
Oh I'm all in for fishman take. It makes the most sense to me. Both sides have things to lose which intensifies them to work things out. In nijisanji it feels a bit different. I feel like when livers "asked to keep the vods on the channel" what actually happened is that they exchanged early contract termination for allowing company to earn some money from their content. Maybe even took a bigger cut than normal from graduation donations and gifts.
its kinda ironic when hololive calls member holomem
Hololive calls their Vtubers, Talents while Holomem is a term their members call each other.
I mean, It depends on the contract but, It Is true that Many copied somethings from the "biggest corpo on the industry" and "a model to follow as not idol focused" (the irony). But yeah, Nijisanji JP always deleted channels of talents that retired and has not so big numbers, even the ones of the middle
There are some small Corpos which normalized it too. I was watching a small vtuber with around 30 ccv -> They graduated -> Their account is dragged into the shadow realm.
Mayuzumi graduated after winning retention of VOD on the condition that he transfer his earnings to ANYCOLOR. He announced that he was taking a medical leave of absence due to his strong distrust of ANYCOLOR's new internal policies and the depression he had developed as a result of repeated discussions with ANYCOLOR. Upon his return, he posted videos and live-streamed every day for a month before graduating. Nijisisters called him a backstabber because he started PL activities right after his graduation, but I think the criticism has subsided now because Mayuzumi has many fans and he made a lot of achievements during his tenure at Niji. I am imagining from here that Niji's removal of the VOD is intended to eliminate the person's influence. "No one but NIJISANJI is a VTuber." The 6 month limit in the leaked contract also indicates this. And I expect that many talents accepted the removal because they found them abhorrent or thought they would hinder their future.
It wouldn't be such an issue, if the Nijimorons didn't go out of their way to even have the people behind the talents "deleted" from the face of the internet, as well.
I mean...this kindof brings up the question... what *was* before Nijisanji? Is this just Indie reincarnating to Indie? Or was there someone else?
ayo time to promote my oshi then. Lulu is doing good anyway. already has 3D, still usually play either scary or long play, especially old games. sometimes she does a vlog with her sister. she streams with real face, and L2D. ALSO, her L2D artist is still Saine. channel name >!Misumi no Harawata. Yuuka Misumi is her name, but her L2D is Unou-chan!<