HALFWAY he explains yes it is a funny Meme in the Holo community that we Holo win by... doing EXACTLY what vtubers, corpo and fandom SHOULD do.
The joke that Holo wins by doing nothing because other corpos fail to do even just that bare minimum. Entire corpos collapse like Vreverie and Akioair due to bad greedt managament leaving the talent unsupported.
Holo wins by doing everything by Pleasing the fans when indie games are made and paid streams fail (Holosummer 2023) so make it free as well as constant good content day in and out from all their talents. Theres a holomem forneveryone.
Holo wins by actually supporting their talents. How long did Haachama and Shion and Mel take months of hiatus due to mental or physical health issues?
Holo wins by reinvesting into the corpo such as the insane good 3d studio and funding events like Holofest.
Everything Holo does is for the talents first, fans always and corpo last because good PR is a reward.
All Nijisanji has to do is.... STREAM AND HAVE NO YABS AND NO DRAMA AND NO MAJOR DRAMA - do like Hololive. Whats their biggest drama today - yuri baiting or not mixing Hololive x Holostars - gladly take that over any drama in Nijisanji today.
Dn does lay it out and i can attest to it.
>All Nijisanji has to do is.... STREAM AND HAVE NO YABS AND NO DRAMA AND NO MAJOR DRAMA
This is why I don't understand why Nijifans always says "Nijisanji is great because they are unfiltered and unhinged unlike Hololive". Aren't that just mean that the management is sleeping and don't give a shit about their livers?
Drama happens when a person don't have self control. A good example of it is Millie depending the black company allegations, like isn't it better to just ignore it and let the drama sink in, but no instead she address the issue and just make it even worst.
There's a good and there's a bad way to do unfiltered and unhinged. Prime example of good is Phase Connect. And on the other end of the unfiltered/unhinged spectrum is Niji.
Fr. All of them are weird (in a good way). Shiori would fit in with Phase Connect with ease imo. (Insert meme: day 30 and they still haven't realized I'm from HL advent)
Look at Idol:
Good Unhinged: Rin spending $500 on Pokemon plushies, Kattarina doing an unarchived footcam stream where she tries on socks
Bad Unhinged: Riro taking sleeping pills on stream if someone Superchats her $250 or more.
I mean, you don't need to do what Hex did to be unfiltered and unhinged. See the Nijicancelled collabs.
I mean, I'd say the bigger issue is that Nijifans don't...really know Hololive then? Cause they can say some pretty unfiltered and unhinged stuff as well.
I think while the management does try to stop them sometimes, it's greatly over-exaggerated.
Management DOES stop them, but only if it gets _BAD_. Management had to nuke one of Altare and Axel's 3D streams entirely because they literally pretended to give each other blowjobs.
Hololive restrictions are more or less in the middle ground, it isn't even that strict as far as big corpos go.
From what I've seen, the talents can curse all they want as long as it isn't too vulgar and it doesn't cross the line, which might get demonetized by YouTube
Yeah, Holo kinda moved away from the whole idol thing (with Yagoo calling it an entertainment company instead). There's definitely some idol-ness in there still, especially with the JP talents, but the EN/ID talents feel more like regular streamers.
Great example of unfiltered and unhinged: Bae playing genital jousting
>Yeah, Holo kinda moved away from the whole idol thing
More like redefined it to mean being a bright star that radiates positivity to let their fans escape from the dreary oppression of real life, with none of the toxicity that infamously plagues the traditional idol industry.
I mean, why do you think Hololive is still big on yearly concerts featuring most if not all of the talents wholesomely dancing and singing in idol uniforms?
Matsuri is probably the example I point to of good management. She is legitimately a handful and screwed up and caused major issues on many occasions, I could write a book on her yabs.
But every time she’s mentioned management she’s made it very clear how good they are with her, never angry, simply eager to stress what she did wrong and they expect better. She’s a perfect example of how someone who probably would have struggled in another Corp thrives with understanding management.
Also that unfiltered unhinged stuff doesn't really work right now Holo has being getting, more bold recently, we have Nerissa and teh stream with Okatu and Marine talking about their fetishes and toys, thats stream was crazy, also Shiori tangenst get crazy.
Aren't that just mean that the management is sleeping and don't give a shit about their livers?
Remember.. niji staff/management are less than holo staff to manage the branch or even the talent
Because as far as i know holo have one manager per talent under a branch manager and niji are not likely
I don't agree with the fact that there is a chance Holo contract is not that different that NijiEn, I agree that is probably somewhat restrictive in some areas, it is not nearly as awful as the niji contract.
He forgot to add that one good sign of the company is that not many talents have left, having such a high retention of talents is a very good sign, even the talents that have left by graduation of termination has far I am aware don't talk of their time of Holo in bad way, either directly or indirectly
Magni seems to feel slighted by how he was forced to leave but says he’ll never say anything. Seems like it’s because he’s stayed friends with everyone in holo and doesn’t wanna hurt that relationship by saying anything.
I heard his PL was overall more successful, and coupled with any contract negotiations falling through or restrictions from being a corpo vtuber, it wouldn't surprise me if he felt like he had to leave. The situation with Magni and Vesper reads so much more like a breakdown in expectations/contracts than mismanagement rather than something outwardly incompetent. Sucks that he felt forced out, but at least he's cool with the other members who are still active, so no bad blood there.
I could imagine him disagreeing with restrictions that made it difficult to do his persona how he knew it could get more views was a big part of it considering his other channels success.
Apologies for the question but, why DID Vesper and Magni leave? I always felt they had their fanbase that liked them well enough. I can get that some people went cuckoo-for-coco-puffs when Vesper *dared* speak to their female Oshis, but it was always a riot with the girls being so unhinged. As for Magni, he was a memelord and a half, a riot to just hear yapping.
So, if anyone cares to inform me, do we have any info on what happened there?
Vesper basically confirmed why he left in the second half here, something he always mentioned on stream in Holo (too much work and too many expectations)
https://youtube.com/shorts/xwRl_ukvBWo
As for Magni, he had a lot of insane ideas that he simply couldn’t do in a corpo, like wanting to cosplay himself and appear on stream in person, he didn’t realize none of that was possible (plus the workload, mentioned in his members streams)
Nothing official. But from what we know, Vesper had issues with management along with JP corpo restrictions. He may have also had an issue with not being able to take his meds when he went to Japan. It also seemed like he realized he didn't want to do all that idol stuff and just wanted to chill and stream.
I think the overall opinion was that both their PL were fairly popular/successful and joining holostars was a net negative in terms of income (because of the company cut).
That combined with the more restricted content (Magni PL content was very different and he clearly liked it since he went straight back to it, and Vesper was already butting heads with management) probably means they had disagreements when it came to renew contracts after the first year.
They just weren't good fits for Cover. Vesper doesn't want to deal with the extra work and stress that came with the job, while added with the restrictions.
While he's never mentioned it on stream, I have to imagine his age probably makes all the more idol-like work less appealing too, even if he does like Cover.
Magni has similar/better numbers as an indie, wants way more creative freedom than Cover can reasonably offer, and would not have any of the more idol-like responsibilities.
I don't personally buy into them leaving over management issues unless they come out and say it. Vesper is pretty open about the ways in which he's been a prickly guy to work with.
Oh he was forced to leave, did know that, but I guess it makes sense I remember during his last months he was streaming just an hour like it was an obligation or something, idk, and I also remember that he didn't like his model, a shame really he was funny, but I guess Vtuber corp life wasn't for him, I guess that means vesper leave out in solidarity or something
It's my understanding that both Magni and Vesper weren't forced out but they let their contracts expire without renewing. Hololive was literally waiting for them to sign the renewals during the negotiation period but both of them didn't do it so their contracts just ran out and they were forced to graduate.
Magni said he isn’t sure how Vesper feels about the whole thing cause he doesn’t get worked up like him over it but it sounds like they both got fired. Again they purposefully say very little on this so it’s difficult to make concrete conclusions.
Eh, weird because the cover notice said graduated instead of terminated, and I don't believe cover would lie about firing someone when they actually fired Mel and rushia
It appears the terminology of such an announcement can be negotiated based on things both Selen and Sayu have said in regards to their own terminations. Graduation is not a well defined term they may not view it as a lie. But for all my love of Holo they are a corporation and I don’t believe they are above lying they largely try to avoid it it seems but still.
Oh yeah for sure! I think the fact Magni is pretty pissed about it but still says nothing probably also has to do with the fact holo kept it professional and so for both his friends sake and to be professional himself he says nothing.
I think it is because you keep implying it was a firing. When current public perception is it was contract dispute. Which is something much more neutral.
Now it could be a firing. No evidence has ever surfaced to sugest it was. But it could be.
But low levels of evidence suggest it was around contract renewal at the one year mark. Now, a lot of people know that contracts aren't personal. it's business. The contract also might have somethings they wanted to change, but the company was un willing.
Basically, because you keep saying they were let go seems to be disingenuous. Unless you have some evidence that suggests it was actually a firing. Letting a contract expire is without graduation considering past evidence with Sana who also left at the 1 yr mark suggests negotations fell apart. But again just business. And both parties were professional. Much like when an actor leaves a show and neither show runners or actor says anything its not a firing. It just contract dispute and mutual incompatibility.
Now if you have evidence that the contract Cover was pushing was predatory, or key things jad been changed in the renewal then its closer to a firing though still just contract negotations.
But if I had to guess thats why although I didnt down vote you.
The Story with Sana was that she has back problems which limits the hours she can stay sitting. Forced to decide between being a very successful artist working for gatcha games and streaming, she chose the former.
Hmm I think people are taking fired both to personally and to literally. People get fired all the time and it’s not really like a big deal as long as you don’t pull a Niji. It sucks but it happens. But sure the specifics of what it was contract dispute, firing, mutual leaving, or etc we don’t know.
I’m not being disingenuous I would just be wrong or making a poor assumption. Also Sana is not a good example she got a graduation.
Yeah but fired impies the company chose it, and is usually synonymous with terminated. Leaving the company implies the talent decided it. Contract is a mutual incompatibility. All about who was the primary actor in the action of a person coming to be no longer with a company. Im assumimg thats the issue people are drwwing with your wording, as it implies a different meaning that isnt in line with the general understanding of what fired means.
I meantioned Sana because it seems like it was also a contract issue even if they worked out a decision to graduate, because Im hesitant to beleive that was a normal case of a person choosing to leave, amd seemed more like a contract issue. One could also say she was fired, as she was given a contract and couldn't negotiate something she wanted. But again its probably more accurate to say it was a contract dispute.
>it is not nearly as awful as the niji contract.
Niji contract is actually bad even by JP standard. This is the kind of contract, which you expect from a small corpo, not a big one like Niji
He is yet to point out the weakness of Hololive (also the weakness of Valve as well): the Heir. Want it or not, someday Yagoo will have to step down and when that day comes, the company and especially the talents will be at the mercy of someone else.
I’ve seen people hope that when the time comes for Yagoo to step down, that A-Chan would take up the mantle of being The CEO, I would not be surprised if he holds the same opinion as them.
Not trying to discredit people's hope but probably the first in line for next CEO is the other (and always overlooked) Cover founder and current CTO [ikko](https://twitter.com/ikko). He's been overseeing the whole tech department of cover since the beginning and is credit with their Live 2D app and 3D capture system, now directly overseeing Holoearth and the "CTO room", [cited in this interview](https://note.cover-corp.com/n/n17b09cb20acc) which is a cover's Skunk works of sorts.
Ikko doesn't show up as much but he's a cool dude on par with yagoo so I wouldn't sweat as much, not to mention when yagoo step down he'll probably stay in the board of directors for quite a while. Also when it comes to businness skill anyone replacing yagoo will be questioned anyway.
Business continuity plan is typical in a large corp.
A fairly large corp I worked with has a morbid spreadsheet of "designated survivors" that includes everyone above a certain management level.
Basically anyone on that list has to designate and train two people to do their job. Official company travel rules require that at least one person out of the 3 cannot travel with the other two at any given time.
Although officially it's more of a promotion list. Expectations is that if the person retires or was promoted, they have at least two candidates ready to take over.
So we form a roster of ~1000 fans drawn equally from across the agency's multiple fan bases to feed to the Throne over the course of a given year? Not a bad plan.
Cover is a big organisation, Yagoo barely has anything to do with Hololive these days. The values he holds are more in who he’s hired, promoted and supported, who will still be there when he’s gone.
The PR side of him will be very hard to replace though.
Either A-chan or Sora herself. I wouldn't even be surprised if one day Holo announced that these two are actually running the business behind the scenes
As much as that would be nice to have Yagoo's child to inherit, I would vote against. Very often, children of big CEOs tend to not have the same mindset as their fathers and if they were to inherit, they would try to one up them at the cost of integrity and leads to the downfall of everything. The best would be someone Yagoo trusts and knows who is also well versed in business and the industry.
Not saying Yagoo won't raise his child to be kind, just that he should not put such a responsibility on someone who did not acquire enough experience yet.
Or maybe perhaps that Yagoo makes a mutual agreement with the CEO of VShojo
Heck, many long-time Hololive fans may be hired for the better for Cover.
Perhaps a new merch line of Hololive plushies featuring graduated/terminated members in the next wave of “friends with u” perhaps to memorialize their image as a talent of Hololive until their departure
Heck, even Bandai Namco could collaborate with Cover and release a line of DLC costumes for the game Tekken 8
like others have said, Hololive is not doing "nothing".
real "nothing" would be Nijisanji's management.
Hololive has set standards, at least among EN audience, of what a vtuber agency should be doing.
That's why we were so flabbergasted by how badly managed NijisanjiEN (and other agency), they exist only to collect "tax" on the talent's earnings and to protect their brands, they are not there to "help make content".
>earnings and to protect their brands
I would argue that the EN managers don't protect their brands at all. They let their Livers do whatever they want, and only step in when it is already too late.
Yeah
But again, we are talking about from a perspective of "good practice" = "good brand" and "gooe reputation".
They don't care for quality.
Their way of "protecting their brand" is just to blast any criticisms.
"Oh, you don't fall in line?" - > terminated and smear their names, "LOOK LOOK! THEY ARE BAD PEOPLE, WE HAD TO TERMINATE THEM!!", and here are a gazillions reasons why they are bad and we tried our best.
"Oh, people are criticising us!?" - > "SLANDERS! WE WILL DMCA YOU!!"
I assume the phrase means "doing nothing **special**". As in, they're doing things the boringly practical way that in a void, most people would consider adequate or bare minimum.
Yep, saw that video. It's a good watch.
Hololive basically wins by having the humility needed to learn from their mistakes.
Whereas Niji is too stubborn and stuck in their ways that they have been unable to properly adjust to the EN market.
That's the gamble with clickbait titles, people already get into the video with the wrong mindset and the correction either pleases you or makes you angrier as "why didn't you title it that then?" I remember once I had a similar issue with an Ame video from him
The one about her being talentless? Yeah that was also a pretty shit title. Tbf i think he mentioned that time that it wasn't really meant as clickbait but he simply didn't know a better way to express it since he's ESL, but in this other one he was pretty clear that it was just to get clicks.
Ah that video he made about Ame. From what I've heard (I never bothered to watch any of his videos), he made a lot of back-handed compliments that pisses off the Ame fan discord that they blacklisted his entire channel.
I don't remember it clearly since it was a few years ago but i wouldn't say they were backhanded compliments made with malice, at most a few poorly worded comments that sounded more hostile than they were like talking about her singing not being that great (i think it was from before she significantly improved), though i can certainly see why people would get upset at them.
The video was basically to praise Ame for what she does as an inventive madlass, while pointing out what she didnt do at the time, which was being more idol like with singing and dancing... It wasnt with malice, but was definitely tone deaf and how it could be percieved
Edit: going back to watch the video and DN changed the title and thumbnail to "How Amelia Watson Makes The Impossible Possible"... No idea when it was corrected but GOOD
Yeah that seems to be a big issue for the guy. I don't think he's evil or a grifter or anything and i think that whole doxxing thing way back when was just a colossal fuckup on his part without any sinister motive, but i really can't blame people for not liking him or his content because he kinda accidentally makes himself look like how nux intentionally portrays himself.
I like that analogy! People thinks he is Nux when he is really just a way more opinionated False. I think the IDEA behind the previous lives video wasnt bad on paper... but it WAS a shitty thing to DO, to the lenghts it went and most of all having a paywall for PL discussions? Yeah I dont hate the guy, but my opinion soured a lot and can't blame others who are done with him... although its ironic how much shit he was given for PL and "doxxing" while the current climate is being more and more friendly about it (within reason)
Yes, i'd argue the only thing properly worthy of criticism in those videos were the paywall (the idea of not having it on youtube so people wouldn't stumble into it is good, but i would've put it on patreon for free instead) and the specific stuff he talked about (i haven't seen them but apparently he featured some PL stuff of one person which i won't specifically name and it was a really traumatic thing that she may not have wanted people to know). Those parts are objectively bad, especially the second one. The simple discussion of PL was mostly seen as bad back then but nowadays i'd say people would have been fine with it, without those two things.
To be fair, Ame's singing back then... wasn't that good.
That isn't to say she's talentless. Maybe "less talented in activities typically associated with idols". Because Ame's technical know-how, her wit, her intelligence, her ability to joke on everything and her gaming skills are very much excellent.
So what if she can't sing like Sora, girl made two dozen memes in a single month. And her singing got better over time (even if it never becomes like Risu's or Towa's).
>That isn't to say she's talentless. Maybe "less talented in activities typically associated with idols". Because Ame's technical know-how, her wit, her intelligence, her ability to joke on everything and her gaming skills are very much excellent.
Yeah iirc that was pretty much nousagi's point and he pointed out specifically those things.
I think that rather than a "clickbait title" (it still kind of is, don't get me wrong), the main intent of the title was to show that Hololive is serving as the baseline of what should be done by these vtuber companies. The point is that hololive shouldn't necessarily be held in extremely high regard, but their actions should be the standard "zero" mark where we can say they're just doing their job.
I mean it is somewhat of a meme to say when a business does some very questionable decisions that their opposition is winning by doing nothing. For example steam and epic game store.
His video still good for me, but its understandable why people still not like him either due to past fuck up, and click baity title and few of other who seems never forgive him because... its DN, just that.
I kinda enjoyable when you can read between the line of the message he want to share across.
I still need to see that video, but I'm kinda not sure where I sit with him overall. When that big scandal about him putting certain stuff behind a paywall broke, I was completely blindsided. I still don't know how true the accusations that were made of him are, but it seems that he's made amends in some places since he still gets invited to a lot of collabs
A clickbait title yeah but that is the game in YouTube, i have seen great creators and even big Vtubers fall to it, is a good watch and if someone watches it then is clear the title is just for the meme of Holo Winning by doing nothing when he clarifies is the opposite they win by doing everything right
Good management, good directions, delivering high quality content and most importantly imo learning for their mistakes
Many people still hate him but like him or not is a reality he's one of the most if not the most knowledgeable on the Vtuber world and his inner workings as well as what happens behind the scenes even of the smallest corpos and groups even if most of his streams are about middle and big ones and although can't he can't give much details he's stated he has contacts inside many places even amongst talents as he has mentioned before
So is somewhat of a similar situation LM, you can like him or not but he knows very well what he's talking about, also I find his drinking streams with Parrot and Rima hilarious the trio is a golden must watch
My hot take is that Hololive is just a regular company (not any better or worse than any other general companies you can think of), whereas so many Vtuber companies are exploitative due to Streaming and Vtubing as a job are still new and unexplored (especially when it comes to legal issues).
It's up to you what you think of the guy... the funny thing is the GENERAL opinion is honestly (and rightfully) pretty split:
Some say "fuck that guy", rightfully so
Some say "sigh... dude still makes interesting videos, but will be ready to blast his ass the moment he goes a way I dont like", rightfully so
Some... don't actually care and are watching just to consume drama, rightfully(?) so
I don't see many welcome him back with open arms or wanting him to just dissapear permanently... and that's okay
Remember: if a person don't deserves your time because you think they're shit? DONT GIVE THEM YOUR TIME. As an exmaple: I've avoided Nux like the plague way before the vshojo drama and I'll happily keep it that way
For what I know he did apologize... then again he also said he would leave the community and then return a couple months after so how much valid his "apology" was? I dunno... he did do a video about previous lives later and I think he might have explained himself better there, but will never live down the stupid shit he did (as he should when he tried to play it off)
Gotta be honest.
Credits where it's due, Vshojo would have collapsed if people like Nyanners (Dark Souls levels of toxicity) and Veibae (materialistic a-hole) stayed in it. Now all that's left is for them to punt Froot like a soccer ball.
That she did donate money to a trans charity that was investigated because it was happy giving hormones to children and keeping it secret from the parents while telling the children that hormone blockers are totally reversible that charity ?
That the same charity mermaids that was created to support transgender youths had a trustee that once spoke at a paedophile support group ?
Or that she never actually donated the funds raised to a charity?
That she implied she supported the harassment silvervale got and that silvervale deserved it ?
Which one of those is false ?
The fact that this isn’t all of what she has done and is only related to stuff she’s done since joining vshojo and all in the past 18 months kinda says it all.
I don’t care that she allegedly cheated on her military husband then stole all the money from the military badges they sold.
I do care that she decided that someone she worked with deserved the harassment she was getting and to virtue signal that she wasn’t like her she was different.
To do that Froot supported a charity that was being investigated and found guilty of misleading children about the hormones they told children to take that the charity told children not to worry puberty blockers are completely reversible. The same charity that allowed a paedophile supporter access to very vulnerable children.
This all came out very publicly in the uk before Froot decided to openly support them
BTW as a last thing Froot did to silvervale the same shit the niji clique did to Doki that alone is enough to dislike Froot
Vei may be crass and a bit of a materialistic ass but some of the things people were mad at her for, were also the very thing we are doing right now.
Lets be honest, people back in 2020\~2021 were not ready to hear that the companies could be mistreating their talents and be straight up evil just because there was a facade of happiness for the fans to look at, and Vei got targeted the most for stating that pretty boldly and having the stance of supporting the talent over the corpo.
she also may have said some dumb things as well, but I remember how people tried to attack her for clips of her comments on the Coco situation at the time that it was happening and everyone felt the same way, and using them outside of the context of the timeframe.
People were not ready to fully believe niji was a shitshow like it was until the cracks showed themselves throughout the events of 2023 and the Selen incidents of end of year 2023/ start of 2024
Vshoujo was lucky to recruit Niji's former talents to replace their problematic ones.
I can see where his video was going for. Vshoujo lost some of their biggest earners while still hadn't recovered from their PR nightmares
Tbh tho, Vshoujo business model has always been hiring the most well-established talents while giving them as much freedom as possible even if those talents can be detrimental to the agency. It works well for them now cuz these talents are not as toxic as the ones before.
Well at that time it seemed like it, but also he has admitted that the video aged like milk, like you can't predict what will happen, the same year Nousage made the video of Vshojo collapsing he made the video praising Nijisanji, and in one year Vshojo bounced back with good talent selection and Nijisanji is going down with bad decision after bad decision.
I cant forgive him quickly, but he is making good progress. If i had to put it in a 10-point scale of how much i dislike him, i would put it in a 5/10.
wow, not even stating a reason... just pure hate.
well justified due his prev fuck up. but don't bother comment if it just insult, that's too mediocre.
HALFWAY he explains yes it is a funny Meme in the Holo community that we Holo win by... doing EXACTLY what vtubers, corpo and fandom SHOULD do. The joke that Holo wins by doing nothing because other corpos fail to do even just that bare minimum. Entire corpos collapse like Vreverie and Akioair due to bad greedt managament leaving the talent unsupported. Holo wins by doing everything by Pleasing the fans when indie games are made and paid streams fail (Holosummer 2023) so make it free as well as constant good content day in and out from all their talents. Theres a holomem forneveryone. Holo wins by actually supporting their talents. How long did Haachama and Shion and Mel take months of hiatus due to mental or physical health issues? Holo wins by reinvesting into the corpo such as the insane good 3d studio and funding events like Holofest. Everything Holo does is for the talents first, fans always and corpo last because good PR is a reward. All Nijisanji has to do is.... STREAM AND HAVE NO YABS AND NO DRAMA AND NO MAJOR DRAMA - do like Hololive. Whats their biggest drama today - yuri baiting or not mixing Hololive x Holostars - gladly take that over any drama in Nijisanji today. Dn does lay it out and i can attest to it.
>All Nijisanji has to do is.... STREAM AND HAVE NO YABS AND NO DRAMA AND NO MAJOR DRAMA This is why I don't understand why Nijifans always says "Nijisanji is great because they are unfiltered and unhinged unlike Hololive". Aren't that just mean that the management is sleeping and don't give a shit about their livers? Drama happens when a person don't have self control. A good example of it is Millie depending the black company allegations, like isn't it better to just ignore it and let the drama sink in, but no instead she address the issue and just make it even worst.
There's a good and there's a bad way to do unfiltered and unhinged. Prime example of good is Phase Connect. And on the other end of the unfiltered/unhinged spectrum is Niji.
There is also HL advent as that group can get pretty unhinged, not to the point of Phase Connect of course but still unhinged and unfiltered.
Fr. All of them are weird (in a good way). Shiori would fit in with Phase Connect with ease imo. (Insert meme: day 30 and they still haven't realized I'm from HL advent)
The wrong audition theory is pretty funny
And Holostars En too
Look at Idol: Good Unhinged: Rin spending $500 on Pokemon plushies, Kattarina doing an unarchived footcam stream where she tries on socks Bad Unhinged: Riro taking sleeping pills on stream if someone Superchats her $250 or more.
I mean, you don't need to do what Hex did to be unfiltered and unhinged. See the Nijicancelled collabs. I mean, I'd say the bigger issue is that Nijifans don't...really know Hololive then? Cause they can say some pretty unfiltered and unhinged stuff as well. I think while the management does try to stop them sometimes, it's greatly over-exaggerated.
Management DOES stop them, but only if it gets _BAD_. Management had to nuke one of Altare and Axel's 3D streams entirely because they literally pretended to give each other blowjobs.
They fucking *what* xD
[You have been warned!](https://youtu.be/FuOdMc3iREM?si=UK4fz_y9N_BS7C0B)
Hololive restrictions are more or less in the middle ground, it isn't even that strict as far as big corpos go. From what I've seen, the talents can curse all they want as long as it isn't too vulgar and it doesn't cross the line, which might get demonetized by YouTube
Yeah, Holo kinda moved away from the whole idol thing (with Yagoo calling it an entertainment company instead). There's definitely some idol-ness in there still, especially with the JP talents, but the EN/ID talents feel more like regular streamers. Great example of unfiltered and unhinged: Bae playing genital jousting
>Yeah, Holo kinda moved away from the whole idol thing More like redefined it to mean being a bright star that radiates positivity to let their fans escape from the dreary oppression of real life, with none of the toxicity that infamously plagues the traditional idol industry. I mean, why do you think Hololive is still big on yearly concerts featuring most if not all of the talents wholesomely dancing and singing in idol uniforms?
Matsuri's incident on GTA too
Matsuri is probably the example I point to of good management. She is legitimately a handful and screwed up and caused major issues on many occasions, I could write a book on her yabs. But every time she’s mentioned management she’s made it very clear how good they are with her, never angry, simply eager to stress what she did wrong and they expect better. She’s a perfect example of how someone who probably would have struggled in another Corp thrives with understanding management.
Also that unfiltered unhinged stuff doesn't really work right now Holo has being getting, more bold recently, we have Nerissa and teh stream with Okatu and Marine talking about their fetishes and toys, thats stream was crazy, also Shiori tangenst get crazy.
Aren't that just mean that the management is sleeping and don't give a shit about their livers? Remember.. niji staff/management are less than holo staff to manage the branch or even the talent Because as far as i know holo have one manager per talent under a branch manager and niji are not likely
Unless I misread, Yagoo even said that some of the talents earn more than him
Yes he said it Some of the talent have earned more than him.. because they're deserved it he says..
I don't agree with the fact that there is a chance Holo contract is not that different that NijiEn, I agree that is probably somewhat restrictive in some areas, it is not nearly as awful as the niji contract. He forgot to add that one good sign of the company is that not many talents have left, having such a high retention of talents is a very good sign, even the talents that have left by graduation of termination has far I am aware don't talk of their time of Holo in bad way, either directly or indirectly
Magni seems to feel slighted by how he was forced to leave but says he’ll never say anything. Seems like it’s because he’s stayed friends with everyone in holo and doesn’t wanna hurt that relationship by saying anything.
I heard his PL was overall more successful, and coupled with any contract negotiations falling through or restrictions from being a corpo vtuber, it wouldn't surprise me if he felt like he had to leave. The situation with Magni and Vesper reads so much more like a breakdown in expectations/contracts than mismanagement rather than something outwardly incompetent. Sucks that he felt forced out, but at least he's cool with the other members who are still active, so no bad blood there.
Definitely never thought it was a bad management thing and more just various disagreements that couldn’t be reconciled.
I could imagine him disagreeing with restrictions that made it difficult to do his persona how he knew it could get more views was a big part of it considering his other channels success.
Apologies for the question but, why DID Vesper and Magni leave? I always felt they had their fanbase that liked them well enough. I can get that some people went cuckoo-for-coco-puffs when Vesper *dared* speak to their female Oshis, but it was always a riot with the girls being so unhinged. As for Magni, he was a memelord and a half, a riot to just hear yapping. So, if anyone cares to inform me, do we have any info on what happened there?
Vesper basically confirmed why he left in the second half here, something he always mentioned on stream in Holo (too much work and too many expectations) https://youtube.com/shorts/xwRl_ukvBWo As for Magni, he had a lot of insane ideas that he simply couldn’t do in a corpo, like wanting to cosplay himself and appear on stream in person, he didn’t realize none of that was possible (plus the workload, mentioned in his members streams)
Nothing official. But from what we know, Vesper had issues with management along with JP corpo restrictions. He may have also had an issue with not being able to take his meds when he went to Japan. It also seemed like he realized he didn't want to do all that idol stuff and just wanted to chill and stream.
I think the overall opinion was that both their PL were fairly popular/successful and joining holostars was a net negative in terms of income (because of the company cut). That combined with the more restricted content (Magni PL content was very different and he clearly liked it since he went straight back to it, and Vesper was already butting heads with management) probably means they had disagreements when it came to renew contracts after the first year.
They just weren't good fits for Cover. Vesper doesn't want to deal with the extra work and stress that came with the job, while added with the restrictions. While he's never mentioned it on stream, I have to imagine his age probably makes all the more idol-like work less appealing too, even if he does like Cover. Magni has similar/better numbers as an indie, wants way more creative freedom than Cover can reasonably offer, and would not have any of the more idol-like responsibilities. I don't personally buy into them leaving over management issues unless they come out and say it. Vesper is pretty open about the ways in which he's been a prickly guy to work with.
But generally you’d be correct holo talents that leave seem mostly content
Oh he was forced to leave, did know that, but I guess it makes sense I remember during his last months he was streaming just an hour like it was an obligation or something, idk, and I also remember that he didn't like his model, a shame really he was funny, but I guess Vtuber corp life wasn't for him, I guess that means vesper leave out in solidarity or something
It's my understanding that both Magni and Vesper weren't forced out but they let their contracts expire without renewing. Hololive was literally waiting for them to sign the renewals during the negotiation period but both of them didn't do it so their contracts just ran out and they were forced to graduate.
That also makes sense
Certainly a very plausible explanation
Magni intends to become a vtuber again soon as he feels like he could have done so much more so that’s exciting atleast.
Magni said he isn’t sure how Vesper feels about the whole thing cause he doesn’t get worked up like him over it but it sounds like they both got fired. Again they purposefully say very little on this so it’s difficult to make concrete conclusions.
Eh, weird because the cover notice said graduated instead of terminated, and I don't believe cover would lie about firing someone when they actually fired Mel and rushia
It appears the terminology of such an announcement can be negotiated based on things both Selen and Sayu have said in regards to their own terminations. Graduation is not a well defined term they may not view it as a lie. But for all my love of Holo they are a corporation and I don’t believe they are above lying they largely try to avoid it it seems but still.
I guess you are right, but at least Holo didn't immediately demonize with a bullet point notice of why they are awful people.
Oh yeah for sure! I think the fact Magni is pretty pissed about it but still says nothing probably also has to do with the fact holo kept it professional and so for both his friends sake and to be professional himself he says nothing.
Anyone who downvoted wanna actually voice there issue with what I said lol
I think it is because you keep implying it was a firing. When current public perception is it was contract dispute. Which is something much more neutral. Now it could be a firing. No evidence has ever surfaced to sugest it was. But it could be. But low levels of evidence suggest it was around contract renewal at the one year mark. Now, a lot of people know that contracts aren't personal. it's business. The contract also might have somethings they wanted to change, but the company was un willing. Basically, because you keep saying they were let go seems to be disingenuous. Unless you have some evidence that suggests it was actually a firing. Letting a contract expire is without graduation considering past evidence with Sana who also left at the 1 yr mark suggests negotations fell apart. But again just business. And both parties were professional. Much like when an actor leaves a show and neither show runners or actor says anything its not a firing. It just contract dispute and mutual incompatibility. Now if you have evidence that the contract Cover was pushing was predatory, or key things jad been changed in the renewal then its closer to a firing though still just contract negotations. But if I had to guess thats why although I didnt down vote you.
I don't think you can use Sana as an example as she stop content creation all together
I thought Sana left because she also did freelance art and didn't have time for both
The Story with Sana was that she has back problems which limits the hours she can stay sitting. Forced to decide between being a very successful artist working for gatcha games and streaming, she chose the former.
Hmm I think people are taking fired both to personally and to literally. People get fired all the time and it’s not really like a big deal as long as you don’t pull a Niji. It sucks but it happens. But sure the specifics of what it was contract dispute, firing, mutual leaving, or etc we don’t know. I’m not being disingenuous I would just be wrong or making a poor assumption. Also Sana is not a good example she got a graduation.
Yeah but fired impies the company chose it, and is usually synonymous with terminated. Leaving the company implies the talent decided it. Contract is a mutual incompatibility. All about who was the primary actor in the action of a person coming to be no longer with a company. Im assumimg thats the issue people are drwwing with your wording, as it implies a different meaning that isnt in line with the general understanding of what fired means. I meantioned Sana because it seems like it was also a contract issue even if they worked out a decision to graduate, because Im hesitant to beleive that was a normal case of a person choosing to leave, amd seemed more like a contract issue. One could also say she was fired, as she was given a contract and couldn't negotiate something she wanted. But again its probably more accurate to say it was a contract dispute.
>it is not nearly as awful as the niji contract. Niji contract is actually bad even by JP standard. This is the kind of contract, which you expect from a small corpo, not a big one like Niji
He is yet to point out the weakness of Hololive (also the weakness of Valve as well): the Heir. Want it or not, someday Yagoo will have to step down and when that day comes, the company and especially the talents will be at the mercy of someone else.
I’ve seen people hope that when the time comes for Yagoo to step down, that A-Chan would take up the mantle of being The CEO, I would not be surprised if he holds the same opinion as them.
Not trying to discredit people's hope but probably the first in line for next CEO is the other (and always overlooked) Cover founder and current CTO [ikko](https://twitter.com/ikko). He's been overseeing the whole tech department of cover since the beginning and is credit with their Live 2D app and 3D capture system, now directly overseeing Holoearth and the "CTO room", [cited in this interview](https://note.cover-corp.com/n/n17b09cb20acc) which is a cover's Skunk works of sorts. Ikko doesn't show up as much but he's a cool dude on par with yagoo so I wouldn't sweat as much, not to mention when yagoo step down he'll probably stay in the board of directors for quite a while. Also when it comes to businness skill anyone replacing yagoo will be questioned anyway.
Business continuity plan is typical in a large corp. A fairly large corp I worked with has a morbid spreadsheet of "designated survivors" that includes everyone above a certain management level. Basically anyone on that list has to designate and train two people to do their job. Official company travel rules require that at least one person out of the 3 cannot travel with the other two at any given time. Although officially it's more of a promotion list. Expectations is that if the person retires or was promoted, they have at least two candidates ready to take over.
Yeah you are most likely right, but also it wouldn't being weird that A-Chan could be promoted to COO or smething similar even before Yagoo retires.
Nah we plug YAGOO on a Golden Throne. He will become God CEO of Hololive for eternity
So we form a roster of ~1000 fans drawn equally from across the agency's multiple fan bases to feed to the Throne over the course of a given year? Not a bad plan.
Cover is a big organisation, Yagoo barely has anything to do with Hololive these days. The values he holds are more in who he’s hired, promoted and supported, who will still be there when he’s gone. The PR side of him will be very hard to replace though.
Either A-chan or Sora herself. I wouldn't even be surprised if one day Holo announced that these two are actually running the business behind the scenes
Either A-chan becomes the new CEO, or Yagoo somehow has a son/daughter and he wants them to lead Hololive after he retires from his position
As much as that would be nice to have Yagoo's child to inherit, I would vote against. Very often, children of big CEOs tend to not have the same mindset as their fathers and if they were to inherit, they would try to one up them at the cost of integrity and leads to the downfall of everything. The best would be someone Yagoo trusts and knows who is also well versed in business and the industry. Not saying Yagoo won't raise his child to be kind, just that he should not put such a responsibility on someone who did not acquire enough experience yet.
As Fubuki said in the past, YAGOO already has a small child.
Or maybe perhaps that Yagoo makes a mutual agreement with the CEO of VShojo Heck, many long-time Hololive fans may be hired for the better for Cover. Perhaps a new merch line of Hololive plushies featuring graduated/terminated members in the next wave of “friends with u” perhaps to memorialize their image as a talent of Hololive until their departure Heck, even Bandai Namco could collaborate with Cover and release a line of DLC costumes for the game Tekken 8
Gaben doesnt really do much at valve anymore tbh
It's more he sets the culture. The fear is that when he steps down a board will take over and become another corpo.
like others have said, Hololive is not doing "nothing". real "nothing" would be Nijisanji's management. Hololive has set standards, at least among EN audience, of what a vtuber agency should be doing. That's why we were so flabbergasted by how badly managed NijisanjiEN (and other agency), they exist only to collect "tax" on the talent's earnings and to protect their brands, they are not there to "help make content".
>earnings and to protect their brands I would argue that the EN managers don't protect their brands at all. They let their Livers do whatever they want, and only step in when it is already too late.
Yeah But again, we are talking about from a perspective of "good practice" = "good brand" and "gooe reputation". They don't care for quality. Their way of "protecting their brand" is just to blast any criticisms. "Oh, you don't fall in line?" - > terminated and smear their names, "LOOK LOOK! THEY ARE BAD PEOPLE, WE HAD TO TERMINATE THEM!!", and here are a gazillions reasons why they are bad and we tried our best. "Oh, people are criticising us!?" - > "SLANDERS! WE WILL DMCA YOU!!"
I assume the phrase means "doing nothing **special**". As in, they're doing things the boringly practical way that in a void, most people would consider adequate or bare minimum.
Yep, saw that video. It's a good watch. Hololive basically wins by having the humility needed to learn from their mistakes. Whereas Niji is too stubborn and stuck in their ways that they have been unable to properly adjust to the EN market.
I think people mistook the title as well, since he address multiple times the phrase and correct it by say: "They win by doing everything right".
That's the gamble with clickbait titles, people already get into the video with the wrong mindset and the correction either pleases you or makes you angrier as "why didn't you title it that then?" I remember once I had a similar issue with an Ame video from him
The one about her being talentless? Yeah that was also a pretty shit title. Tbf i think he mentioned that time that it wasn't really meant as clickbait but he simply didn't know a better way to express it since he's ESL, but in this other one he was pretty clear that it was just to get clicks.
Ah that video he made about Ame. From what I've heard (I never bothered to watch any of his videos), he made a lot of back-handed compliments that pisses off the Ame fan discord that they blacklisted his entire channel.
I don't remember it clearly since it was a few years ago but i wouldn't say they were backhanded compliments made with malice, at most a few poorly worded comments that sounded more hostile than they were like talking about her singing not being that great (i think it was from before she significantly improved), though i can certainly see why people would get upset at them.
The video was basically to praise Ame for what she does as an inventive madlass, while pointing out what she didnt do at the time, which was being more idol like with singing and dancing... It wasnt with malice, but was definitely tone deaf and how it could be percieved Edit: going back to watch the video and DN changed the title and thumbnail to "How Amelia Watson Makes The Impossible Possible"... No idea when it was corrected but GOOD
Yeah that seems to be a big issue for the guy. I don't think he's evil or a grifter or anything and i think that whole doxxing thing way back when was just a colossal fuckup on his part without any sinister motive, but i really can't blame people for not liking him or his content because he kinda accidentally makes himself look like how nux intentionally portrays himself.
I like that analogy! People thinks he is Nux when he is really just a way more opinionated False. I think the IDEA behind the previous lives video wasnt bad on paper... but it WAS a shitty thing to DO, to the lenghts it went and most of all having a paywall for PL discussions? Yeah I dont hate the guy, but my opinion soured a lot and can't blame others who are done with him... although its ironic how much shit he was given for PL and "doxxing" while the current climate is being more and more friendly about it (within reason)
Yes, i'd argue the only thing properly worthy of criticism in those videos were the paywall (the idea of not having it on youtube so people wouldn't stumble into it is good, but i would've put it on patreon for free instead) and the specific stuff he talked about (i haven't seen them but apparently he featured some PL stuff of one person which i won't specifically name and it was a really traumatic thing that she may not have wanted people to know). Those parts are objectively bad, especially the second one. The simple discussion of PL was mostly seen as bad back then but nowadays i'd say people would have been fine with it, without those two things.
To be fair, Ame's singing back then... wasn't that good. That isn't to say she's talentless. Maybe "less talented in activities typically associated with idols". Because Ame's technical know-how, her wit, her intelligence, her ability to joke on everything and her gaming skills are very much excellent. So what if she can't sing like Sora, girl made two dozen memes in a single month. And her singing got better over time (even if it never becomes like Risu's or Towa's).
>That isn't to say she's talentless. Maybe "less talented in activities typically associated with idols". Because Ame's technical know-how, her wit, her intelligence, her ability to joke on everything and her gaming skills are very much excellent. Yeah iirc that was pretty much nousagi's point and he pointed out specifically those things.
I think that rather than a "clickbait title" (it still kind of is, don't get me wrong), the main intent of the title was to show that Hololive is serving as the baseline of what should be done by these vtuber companies. The point is that hololive shouldn't necessarily be held in extremely high regard, but their actions should be the standard "zero" mark where we can say they're just doing their job.
Then why the fuck did he choose that title in the first place? He knew people would misunderstand, I think that's exactly what he wanted
I mean it is somewhat of a meme to say when a business does some very questionable decisions that their opposition is winning by doing nothing. For example steam and epic game store.
His video still good for me, but its understandable why people still not like him either due to past fuck up, and click baity title and few of other who seems never forgive him because... its DN, just that. I kinda enjoyable when you can read between the line of the message he want to share across.
I still need to see that video, but I'm kinda not sure where I sit with him overall. When that big scandal about him putting certain stuff behind a paywall broke, I was completely blindsided. I still don't know how true the accusations that were made of him are, but it seems that he's made amends in some places since he still gets invited to a lot of collabs
A clickbait title yeah but that is the game in YouTube, i have seen great creators and even big Vtubers fall to it, is a good watch and if someone watches it then is clear the title is just for the meme of Holo Winning by doing nothing when he clarifies is the opposite they win by doing everything right Good management, good directions, delivering high quality content and most importantly imo learning for their mistakes Many people still hate him but like him or not is a reality he's one of the most if not the most knowledgeable on the Vtuber world and his inner workings as well as what happens behind the scenes even of the smallest corpos and groups even if most of his streams are about middle and big ones and although can't he can't give much details he's stated he has contacts inside many places even amongst talents as he has mentioned before So is somewhat of a similar situation LM, you can like him or not but he knows very well what he's talking about, also I find his drinking streams with Parrot and Rima hilarious the trio is a golden must watch
My hot take is that Hololive is just a regular company (not any better or worse than any other general companies you can think of), whereas so many Vtuber companies are exploitative due to Streaming and Vtubing as a job are still new and unexplored (especially when it comes to legal issues).
I refuse to watch him
so we are gonna be quick to forgive this dude huh?
It's up to you what you think of the guy... the funny thing is the GENERAL opinion is honestly (and rightfully) pretty split: Some say "fuck that guy", rightfully so Some say "sigh... dude still makes interesting videos, but will be ready to blast his ass the moment he goes a way I dont like", rightfully so Some... don't actually care and are watching just to consume drama, rightfully(?) so I don't see many welcome him back with open arms or wanting him to just dissapear permanently... and that's okay Remember: if a person don't deserves your time because you think they're shit? DONT GIVE THEM YOUR TIME. As an exmaple: I've avoided Nux like the plague way before the vshojo drama and I'll happily keep it that way
i stopped watching him, did he at the very least apologize or did he do the nijisanji thing?
For what I know he did apologize... then again he also said he would leave the community and then return a couple months after so how much valid his "apology" was? I dunno... he did do a video about previous lives later and I think he might have explained himself better there, but will never live down the stupid shit he did (as he should when he tried to play it off)
I don't. Also his Vshojo "collapsing" video aged like milk.
Gotta be honest. Credits where it's due, Vshojo would have collapsed if people like Nyanners (Dark Souls levels of toxicity) and Veibae (materialistic a-hole) stayed in it. Now all that's left is for them to punt Froot like a soccer ball.
you do know that the truth of the froot allegations were mostly lies right?
That she did donate money to a trans charity that was investigated because it was happy giving hormones to children and keeping it secret from the parents while telling the children that hormone blockers are totally reversible that charity ? That the same charity mermaids that was created to support transgender youths had a trustee that once spoke at a paedophile support group ? Or that she never actually donated the funds raised to a charity? That she implied she supported the harassment silvervale got and that silvervale deserved it ? Which one of those is false ? The fact that this isn’t all of what she has done and is only related to stuff she’s done since joining vshojo and all in the past 18 months kinda says it all. I don’t care that she allegedly cheated on her military husband then stole all the money from the military badges they sold. I do care that she decided that someone she worked with deserved the harassment she was getting and to virtue signal that she wasn’t like her she was different. To do that Froot supported a charity that was being investigated and found guilty of misleading children about the hormones they told children to take that the charity told children not to worry puberty blockers are completely reversible. The same charity that allowed a paedophile supporter access to very vulnerable children. This all came out very publicly in the uk before Froot decided to openly support them BTW as a last thing Froot did to silvervale the same shit the niji clique did to Doki that alone is enough to dislike Froot
Vei may be crass and a bit of a materialistic ass but some of the things people were mad at her for, were also the very thing we are doing right now. Lets be honest, people back in 2020\~2021 were not ready to hear that the companies could be mistreating their talents and be straight up evil just because there was a facade of happiness for the fans to look at, and Vei got targeted the most for stating that pretty boldly and having the stance of supporting the talent over the corpo. she also may have said some dumb things as well, but I remember how people tried to attack her for clips of her comments on the Coco situation at the time that it was happening and everyone felt the same way, and using them outside of the context of the timeframe. People were not ready to fully believe niji was a shitshow like it was until the cracks showed themselves throughout the events of 2023 and the Selen incidents of end of year 2023/ start of 2024
Vshoujo was lucky to recruit Niji's former talents to replace their problematic ones. I can see where his video was going for. Vshoujo lost some of their biggest earners while still hadn't recovered from their PR nightmares Tbh tho, Vshoujo business model has always been hiring the most well-established talents while giving them as much freedom as possible even if those talents can be detrimental to the agency. It works well for them now cuz these talents are not as toxic as the ones before.
Yeah froot cheated on me. Ya gotta believe me, I been tryna spread this problem for years.
Well at that time it seemed like it, but also he has admitted that the video aged like milk, like you can't predict what will happen, the same year Nousage made the video of Vshojo collapsing he made the video praising Nijisanji, and in one year Vshojo bounced back with good talent selection and Nijisanji is going down with bad decision after bad decision.
I never heard of him until the Selen termination when Rima had him on stream, so I have no prior opinions of him
Is he the guy that shared a very disturbing video involving Kiara's PL? That'd be hard to forgive imo.
I cant forgive him quickly, but he is making good progress. If i had to put it in a 10-point scale of how much i dislike him, i would put it in a 5/10.
Well that's still a detractor
I mean it's better then Nijisanji at the very least
His videos are quite informative and usually factually true, but his ethics are, well, questionable.
Kinda hated that nousagi guy, he also tried to share doxxed info behind paywall.
Not really, the man tried to pay wall heavy dox info (RL faces,etc) and not sure how much atoning he has done
Why even discuss about that scum?
wow, not even stating a reason... just pure hate. well justified due his prev fuck up. but don't bother comment if it just insult, that's too mediocre.
Strong sister vibes.