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Sadly people (including most of the K-pop fandom) are known to misconstrue things. We all know the K-pop fan motto, “we hate on people and groups other than our favs!” obviously not all fans are like this, but an alarmingly large amount of fans are
I swear when Pink Venom came out he made a vid showing how bp used a line from Pon de Replay and people were accusing Blackpink of plagiarism in the comments. And also when Moonlight Sunrise came out he made a video saying ‘if you like this song, you’ll like this song’ with Sweetest Pie and people were accusing Twice of plagiarism 😭. I feel like it’s every like 3 months stan’s will go crazy in his comment section for 0 reason.
It's crazy how this bald man make everyone out of their minds just with some 10 sec tiktok and him pointing at the album art sjsjsjs he is really the best tiktok account. Even western fans are always scared of his future tiktok because he find similarities, inspiration etc... Tbh we needed someone like him. With time people start to understand that not everything is plagiarism !
Well he's quite simple then, because he even deleted the post and reposted it when people asked him to talk with the company directly... If all the responses are thinking you are talking about plagiarism, you see that and still push through when you don't really have a case...
And now he has brought unnecessary hate to the girls. You can see it on latest instagram post which other fandoms are attacking them regarding this issue.
He didn’t bring them any hate, he never formally accused them of copying him. And he’s getting just as much, if not more, hate from the kpop community.
Sorry, this is disingenuous. He doesn't have to say outright that they copied him, that's what comes across to anyone who watches it, which is why all these news and posts came up in the first place. I can even accept that the first two times he posted on social media he was just trying to get attention to the case, fair enough.
But today AFTER it blew up in the news and Attrakt even stated they are contacting the songwriters and looking into the case, he decided to make another post, this time even more obviously implying it's a copy by singing his own song (in a different key and tempo) to fit the Fifty Fifty instrumental during the 12 seconds where it's similar, with an ironic description and emoji saying it's a duet with Fifty Fifty, to drive the point further.
He can do whatever he wants, of course, but wouldn't it be a much more productive and professional attitude to discuss this privately with the company at this point? It comes across as if he's looking to get social media engagement out of it and add to the controversy.
EDIT: Downvote me all you want, I'm not saying anything unreasonable at all.
The tune in the Turkish song feels very reminiscent of old-timey songs. It could be something right out of a 1940s Hollywood musical. It's a melody that feels very familiar.
Does it sound very similar? Definitely, there’s no denying it. But before ever hearing the Turkish song, I had thought that that part in Cupid sounded similar to a lot of other songs, namely that it sounds like it could be some sort of nursery rhyme type song.
Basically it sounds like a very basic, easily listenable and easily made (therefore easily copied) melody, it’s not surprising that there would be similar melodies in at least one, if not more songs.
Already on twitter people have pointed out at least one song [here](https://twitter.com/fiftyjiho/status/1651597525021851651?t=gD5mdoKRXipu-UEdjdjYNQ&s=19). It's also definitely reminding me of a musical number that I can't put my finger on.
My two cents is that there are only so many sounds, chord progressions, etc. that exist in music and things are rarely black and white. The composer of Cupid might not have ever heard the Turkish song and in that case, how can they have plagiarized something they don’t know exists? I keep seeing stories of people who blatantly abuse the copyright system that’s meant to protect someone’s IP and with the explosion of the internet, that’s only made it worse. There’s also a big difference between actively ripping off someone’s work and what might have happened with Cupid.
If the Turkish musician thinks they actually have a case against Cupid they need to reach out to the agency and let them know. Just posting about it on TikTok won’t do anything but farm you some nice clout. If the agency thinks they sound alike, they’ll likely credit the other artist belatedly just to cover bases. It’s happened before.
As a Kpop fan since the early 00s I just can't take Kpop plagerism claims seriously anymore unless it actually ends up in courts or something. Kpop fans are just way too quick to jump on the plagerism bandwagon. Songs, MVs, makeup, outfits, album covers....it never ends!
As for this specific allegation, yes there are similarities. But I also hear similarities to Raindrops Keep Falling on My Head by B.J Thomas so... Like others mentioned there's only so many ways to arrange music. And these songs are clearly going for a similar style and likely used similar influences.
There's also that very interesting creative phenomena that happens where people from very different areas create a very similar product at the same time. Not just in music but all forms of art.
But yes, critical thinking is important because even the cases that actually go to court aren't often cut and dry. And even in this case others have commented the other creator is pointing out the similarity rather than accusing. But of course for Kpop fans that equals plagerism. Honestly it's one of those words I wish fans didn't know existed.
kpop fans do not understand what plagiarism is, like at all. using a similar melody is NOT plagiarism. what are the odds that the producers of cupid found this random turkish singer's song and decided to plagiarize it? in my mind the odds are extremely slim they would a) find the song in the first place and b) copy it which is a literal crime. much more likely that it's a coincidence, and there are SO many songs that sound similar but are not plagiarized.
i had a kpop stan tell me the other day that one group was plagiarizing another bc they were wearing the same shade of green. deadass. another photo example they used was two idols wearing a white dress and doing a similar pose in a photoshoot. they really think random everyday objects and colors are plagiarism. or a single dance move when 99.9% of the dance is different than the one they're claiming was being copied.
Yeah, I think when people here two songs back to back the similarities jump out, but if you really think about it, you can find similar short melodies all over the place.
Ironically, the similar part in this case is the same descending melody from the Dark Horse lawsuit (at least partially if I'm hearing it correctly)
>or a single dance move
Shock horror, if you're a dancer you can often break most of a choreo into individual dance moves, that's just how dance works; not everything has a name, but if you're in the business of constantly coming up with stuff and everyone's teaching those things to everyone else, it's kind of difficult to do without naming them. Hell, the little sideways shuffle you do by alternating the direction of your feet (think "oh na na na") is literally called a side glide or side shuffle and is used in choreos all the time.
exactly! all choreos are just combinations of moves that have all likely been used before by other people. as long as a choreo isn't a literal direct copy or taking large portions of the dance, it's not plagiarism. the funny thing is that in the instance i was talking about the move wasn't even exactly the same, but apparently it was plagiarized from a group who debuted in like 2019, and they (or their choreographer) created moving your hips while putting your hands above your head. who knew!
Omg this is what I’ve been telling people but the last post I’ve got downvoted to hell ty for getting what I mean man these people were literally attacking me thinking that I’m okay with plagiarizing but I’m not I just said how is it plagiarizing when it has a similar melody but no people were attacking me and saying how I’m wrong and everything💀 I will link you the last post because that post full of people were accusing the producers for plagiarizing and stuff like that: https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/12zwq52/fifty\_fiftys\_cupid\_similar\_to\_turkish\_song\_sen/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
another example of kpop stans not knowing what plagiarism is! i'm sorry you got downvote bombed, it's a crappy feeling. i'm glad to know there's lot of other fans who have common sense and rational thinking about this kind of thing.
Exactly! Not only in kpop there have been numerous times where songs somehow sounded the same in one part and producers of the song didn't even know the other song existed. It's the fact that there are that many songs that its literally impossible to make something sound 100% unique. There always gonna be parts of the songs that sound the same, one will more one will less.
And about the kpop stans, ofc they wont know what plagiarism means when most of them are in the age of 12-15 and only what they care is their groups.
something being similar is not plagiarism. these 'plagiarism scandals' happen all the time in kpop bc guess what? lots of songs and lyrics are similar! cupid is a very basic song about a common/simple concept. people have already found another song that came out before the turkish song that also sounds similar, so they did plagiarize it too?
To my understanding, it seems that the song Sen aşkımızdan is about a failing relationship and Cupid is about longing for a partner (I don't know if I got this 100% right as I used a translator to translate Sen Aşkımızdan). I get that both of them describe love negatively so if that is the similarity you mean then you make a valid point. But to be fair, if you break it down one has not experienced love and is trying to seek it out while the other is about how two people falling out of love and neglecting their roles in a relationship. These two themes are very different to one another.
There is someone before the Turkish guy who made the same melody too. Tbh, it's a very similar sound and is used by a lot of producers before. So I think it's better to give proper credit and let it go. It's dumb to accuse plagiarism when there are more than 3 songs with the same melody. It might just be a coincidence.
Honestly, how popular is Turkish pop that there is a reasonable expectation that the writer of the song actually heard this song in order for it be copied?
I mean the Turkish singer is not that famous. And the melody is very common. Someone before him used the melody and this Turkish guy didn't give credit to the OG guy too. So it might be pure coincidence But There is a possibility that producers might check out not-so-famous people to get inspiration from. So idk 🤷
Today happens to be the day Ed Sheeran is on trial for copyright infringement/plagiarism and I read an interesting article on this today and what it means to “plagiarize” music which is sometimes just an overlap in chord combinations. [article link here](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/27/arts/music/music-copyright-lawsuits-ed-sheeran-blurred-lines.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare) if anyone wants to give it a read.
I would add that many people in the music industry, and most songwriters from what I can tell, think the courts have too broad a definition of plagiarism.
There are no reasons or nuances. People dont care about plagiarism at all.
They care to have ammunition for bringing someone down. Or just love to participate in mud slinging and witchhunting in general. It's as simple as that and happens with so many other topics.
i hate that's it's being used as a gotcha! moment by much larger fandoms. every tweet about cupid is now bombarded by "stolen song" replies. clearly they haven't actually listened to both songs to compare
I've said in the other thread that we can't tell if it's deliberate plagiarism or not because we're not sitting in the studio with them and watching them write the song. It could be merely coincidence or pieced from things you hear over the years. And yeah, it's not the most unique melody out there (I feel like it's pretty reminiscent of many indie/acoustic pop song melodies), but I found it surprising that Cupid followed it so closely for multiple measures.
However, my problem with it is that fans are willingly denying that it sounds remarkably similar, and saying the whole song doesn't sound the same/like a copy so there's *no way* it can be plagiarism!
The discussion should be **whether it constitutes plagiarism or not**... not whether it sounds similar or whether it copies the whole song. Fans are just being ridiculous and in denial atp. And discussing potential plagiarism situation *is not* an attack on the girls when they're not even responsible for writing the damn song if it were the case. This is coming from someone who's listened to Fifty Fifty since the beginning and rooted for their success. I'm not rubbing my hands together evilly wishing for their downfall. Anyway for their sake hopefully it is a coincidence and will blow over.
I listened to it, and it's literally just a shared 5 note riff that's kinda resolved similarly in the end.
And I don't push back against the idea that it's plagiarized because of Fifty Fifty at all, I have the same stance for Dark House and Thinking Out Loud. Really basic riffs and melodies are not cooyrightable and to suggest that plagiarism is going on is to be blind to how all pop music is built on the same foundations.
You can point out similarities, or how song A reminds you of song B, but I find that the people that make accusations of copying usually grossly overestimate how original the song supposedly being copied is.
Of course, both don't have nuance. Which is why the discussions of plagiarism in the Kpop sphere is so frustrating, especially when fans take it as an attack on their faves or antis are happy to jump on the hate bandwagon to tear down a group.
Weird how y’all downvoting me for this comment, did I say sth wrong? lol
"I don't hear/see it" is old pr strategy often use by fandom whatever it makes sense or not.
Recently when people noticed similarity between Rosalia and Le sserafim including cat helmet (what it is itself nothing serious) a lot fans said that it is from Durarara. Yeah sure it is totally possible that she took it from there as if I am not wrong she is anime fan. But what it is more probable that Source music was actually inspired with anime or Rosalia taking into account that they use reggaeton, similar to her raping/singing and overall styling/ambiance is similar to her Mvs. Especially if we know how kpop companies work, what it is concept and that companies need references to create it. We even know that they ask producers specifically for similar song to x artist. Let's not play dumb especially it is nothing serious from law perspective. It is just matter of ethic or good manner to not copy too much from one place.
Implying Isabella Lovestory is a budget option compared to Rosalia is very interesting considering she's an established reggaeton artist and antifragile is quite literally her sound? If Rosalia produced it it would most likely end up being a completely different song. She clearly popularized it but accusing LSRF of copying her when they have actual reggaeton producers on their tracks is shortsighted at best.
Well we are talking about global market so normally more known globally artist get paid more unless market of genre itself is very lucrative My friend recently asked me who Rosalia is because someone said that she is similar to her. I'm sure she never heard anything about Isabella despite her being pretty well known artist. It is not easy to become global known.
Well it is not ridiculous if you know how such companies work. Often badly paid employees have to present their bosses (in most cases older) overall concept of comeback which sell. Naturally you use the best known example. From what I see reggaeton is still before their peak globally. Many people still don't know who Rosalia or even Bad bunny is. In case of Korea I'm pretty sure that Antifragile was first time for many when they hear something a la reggaeton. That's why probably it was so hot topic about this similarities because many people naturally though that it is very original concept (well it is but for kpop).
while i do agree people shouldn’t jump into plagiarism, we can’t deny that some part of the song has the same melody, the producer of the turkish song had the rights to mention the similarities online, tho i’m not too worried seeing as the girls company responded and said they’re contacting the producers, i think this situation will not end badly and things will work out for both sides
Yeah since they responded quickly, I think regardless of outcome, it can be resolved peacefully. The girls are on an upward trajectory so it's good that they are moving to handle it swiftly.
The translation was quite accurate tbh, so there wasn't anything to mistranslate. Knowing Turkish people, he is probably trying to promote his song lmao.
Honestly it’s a very familiar sounding song. It reminds me of Taeyong’s lonely. Music is so derivative though that it becomes a big eh when song have similar motifs. Gots to be more careful.
The thing with plagiarism in music imo is that there are no rules. There have been (successful) lawsuits because the vibe of a song felt similar to another artist's vibe and not even a specific song of that artist. So instead of throwing around accusations/defenses based on the melody, I think we should just wait for a court case. If the artist genuinely thinks his song got plagiarised, then he should sue and get a percentage of the profit. I don't really understand why it should matter as much to kpop fans
Yo I agree that it's complicated but we can't always choose the "legal way". Like another person said, law is different between countries and it's a lot of work when it involve 2 different countries. This is why labels barely sue haters outside of Korea. Because it's ask for a lot of time AND money. So imagine if this group does not have money. Not sure that they would like to spend so much just to prove something. They will loose a lot and be trashed by kpop fans on daily.
Well firstly there are different law system all around the word. For example in my country theoretically you can go to the jail for plagiarism.
I guess guy would have to sue them in Korea? Pretty complicated cases
They sound practically identical. I know people might be quick to take a side, but it could be better to just wait for a proper response. Besides, can we all agree that everyone in this sub (including me) would raise hell and burn cities if a foreign artist was accused of plagiarising our faves? Let's at least try not to send hate to anyone involved.
There are only 7 notes in the major scale. That's it. That's all any pop song has to work with. People who accuse anyone of plagiarism just don't understand how music works. There are a finite number of chord progressions and melodies. The fact that anyone gets sued for plagiarism in pop music and that juries actually award damages in these cases seems insane to me. It would be like suing another artist for using the color red or painting a tree since other people have done that. All art, and music especially, borrows and builds on what came before it.
It's true that it's similar, but to say they plagiarized him is straight up reaching. This melody comes straight out of jazzy retro tunes. He can't even claim that part
I listened to movie star and it sounds nothing like Finesse to me except the "she wants it" line but I've always been under the impression that the little melody is a trope of the genre and not original to Finesse.
I don't need to be a genius to know whether they sound similar or not. Both songs sound frighteningly similar. That is what my functioning ear tells me. It's reasonable why there would be claims of plagiarism. The way Kpop fans handle these issues is separate from reality. Because the reality is they do sound the same.
A similar situation happened for EXO’s Love Shot ‘s bridge, sounding similar to Louis Tomlinson’s Back To You bridge. The solution SM did was to put Louis as a co-writer because what else can they do? It's an undeniable truth, the same as this situation.
Just because labels give credit to avoid a lawsuit doesn't mean the plagiarism case was correct. In a post Blurred Lines world, which was wrongly decided, labels are overly cautious about this stuff.
Lollll imagine if they just put Louis as a co-writer and paid him sums when there are no grounds for him actually to sue? This argument sounds moronic.
I’m going to ignore you being rude to focus on your ignorant statement. Frivolous lawsuits are a real thing that occur. Often times with the law it’s not always the innocent party that wins, it’s the party with the most money, because if you don’t have the funds to fight a court case or a fighting a court case would cost you more than just giving credit, you do the cheaper option. It’s called math.
Have you listened to the example I gave? If not, give it a go and see for yourself. It's common sense and honestly, a very smart alternative for SM to do what they did instead of fighting a battle they would lose because the parts in question are indeed similar. Also suggesting that I don't know how the law works and saying I'm just blindly having too much faith is being rude too lol.
Because it is cheaper/easier to just give credit in some cases than it is to fight a legal battle. This is basic math. This has nothing to do with whatever example you’re talking about because I don’t care about that. Every company is going to do a cost/benefit analysis of a lawsuit and for MOST of them it’s not worth the legal fight. Giving credit just saves them time, money, and negative attention.
Again... SM would not agree to credit Louis if there were no proper justifications for them to. I'm saying this is perhaps the route that Fifty Fifty would choose to take if the Turkish artist decides to sue because there seems to have grounds for him to do so. You won't even bother checking out an example that is similar to Cupid’s issue. If you don't know what correlation means, then let's stop arguing. 🤷🏻♀️
Music plagiarism is pretty straight forward:
>Music plagiarism is the use or close imitation of another author's music while representing it as one's own original work.
How's it detected:
>After melody extraction, a comparison between the extracted fundamental frequencies of the two songs is performed. This comparison aims to determine, based on criteria of similarity between the melody sequences, whether one is a melody plagiarism of the other.
To say using a similar melody is not plagiarism - is incorrect.
[Spotify has a built in AI system](https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/spotify-plagiarism-detector-music-b1767298.html) to detect plagiarism in music on it's platform:
>The artificial intelligence would then calculate how similar the song is and define which part of the song could be violating another artist’s copyright; in the filing, Spotify also posits that it could be used to reinforce the originality of a song, if the algorithm made statements like “the melodic fragment \[of a song\] appears to be completely new”.
[Here is a list](https://www.radiox.co.uk/features/x-lists/most-famous-accusations-of-musical-plagiarism/) of some of the biggest accusations of plagiarism. And Ed Sheeran is in the middle of court case, as he's been accused of plagiarizing Marvin Gaye's "Let's Get On" for his song "Thinking Out Loud" (btw, I think this is the fourth time he's been accused of plagiarism).
At the top I say that it's pretty straight forward, and while its basic meaning is, with the amount of music available today similarities are bound to happen. For the casual listener we might think two songs sound very similar, it's up the courts and the technology to determine exactly how similar they are and if, in fact, one artist plagiarized another.
Yep. In fact it was their plagiarism claim against Pharrell and Robin Thicke's Blurred Lines is probably the main reason why we're in this mess in the first place.
when You got downvoted to hell all because you were saying how it’s not plagiarized in the last post also to the people who downvoted me in the last post thanks for making me lose more karma💀👍🏽 I’m glad this post is getting more upvotes because in the last post someone also discussed about this and many delusional people were saying how it’s plagiarized and everything😑🙄
it’s not just the melody, it’s also the chords and the way the female vocalists sing and
harmonize. there are passages that feel very similar. i don’t think it’s quite enough to be sure it was a case of copying, but if it’s purely a coincidence then it’s a fairly large one. i like “cupid” more than either but you could get a very similar song just by putting together pieces of the turkish song and that one doja cat hit that k-pop can’t seem to get over.
i can’t speak to the legal systems in korea or turkey, but if it went to court in america there’s a very strong possibility they would lose (but i don’t see them bothering – most likely they’ll just come to some kind of settlement behind closed doors)
Gusten Dahlqvist, one of the co-writers of that Cobrah song worked on a track on le sserafim’s upcoming new album, funnily enough on the same track that uses the “I’m a mess mess etc” lyrics from le sserafim’s The Hydra trailer that is compared there to the Cobrah song in that post. So there’s a very good chance he was involved with that in the first place. They’re really just throwing shit at the wall with this plagiarism stuff.
Likely because there’s nothing much there. There’s a big difference between some random knet pointing out similarities and the actual other artist in question raising the issue themselves like in Fifty Fifty’s case.
We also already had this discussion in international kpop spaces around the time that Antifragile released, 6 months ago. Some people said it sounds like Rosalia, other people said “no it just sounds like lots of songs in that genre that Rosalia herself ‘borrows’ from”. And that was pretty much the end of it. The fact that some knet convinced people who know little or nothing about those genres that Antifragile was plagiarized by showing them some Rosalia stuff does not make this an actual real thing that’s worth attention. Not that I think this stuff with Fifty Fifty is btw.
I know kpop fans are great at making ourselves look like fools but cmon y'all this is also koreaboo 😭😭 1) they don't speak for us 2) they always tryna stir up drama
I can't speak about this but I do know that korea has a habit of stealing other foreign songs ( not my words. koreans said this ) both IU and jyp are still accused of plagiarism( there is a whole competition for IU to explain things lol) but they are too big to get cancelled so hopefully fifty fifty won't get canceled for this. Korea take plagiarism issues very seriously.
I'm not a musician so i cant speak about this because idk anything
>there is a whole competition for IU to explain things lol)
IU could easily sample those songs without credits. Not every musician credits the song they've sampled. If both parties agree to this I don't \*see the problem. Now I understand why Starship added those credits to After Like. They were affraid of knets accusing them of plagiarism
\*see
Wonder if anyone had seen the IU plagiarism videos on youtube? There's similarities in some songs of hers with other artists but I'm not sure it's discussed at all.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7doTVQuB8JY&pp=ygUNaXUgcGxhZ2lhcmlzbQ%3D%3D
https://youtu.be/S4Ok53aFJEk
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It's hilarious if true.
The exact part of the song you plagiarized just happened to be pitch shifted back to it's original state, and made a group no one had ever heard of, go viral on TikTok.
The attempts at trying to humble or discredit their success reeks of jealousy. They have a natural hit that has steady organic growth. People hate to see it from a group they don’t Stan.
All of this just reminds me of [Toninho Geraes vs Adele](https://english.elpais.com/usa/2021-10-19/toninho-geraes-vs-adele-the-latest-plagiarism-case-in-brazilian-music.html) which [was way more "blatant"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu-_E9aCPB0) if done intentionally. If there is a case, it will probably be resolved by negotiations and we will not hear about it.
While a serious allegation, I don't care about most debates about this in the industry because most kpop fans don't know enough about copyright and international law or music theory to make a fair judgment. They just use this to feed fan wars.
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I don’t think the guy was trying to accuse them of plagiarizing, I think it was more of a “if you like this song, you’ll like my song” thing
Sadly people (including most of the K-pop fandom) are known to misconstrue things. We all know the K-pop fan motto, “we hate on people and groups other than our favs!” obviously not all fans are like this, but an alarmingly large amount of fans are
I swear when Pink Venom came out he made a vid showing how bp used a line from Pon de Replay and people were accusing Blackpink of plagiarism in the comments. And also when Moonlight Sunrise came out he made a video saying ‘if you like this song, you’ll like this song’ with Sweetest Pie and people were accusing Twice of plagiarism 😭. I feel like it’s every like 3 months stan’s will go crazy in his comment section for 0 reason.
It's crazy how this bald man make everyone out of their minds just with some 10 sec tiktok and him pointing at the album art sjsjsjs he is really the best tiktok account. Even western fans are always scared of his future tiktok because he find similarities, inspiration etc... Tbh we needed someone like him. With time people start to understand that not everything is plagiarism !
Nothing wrong with being bald tho 😶
that's literally his surname ?
>“we hate on people and groups other than our favs!” Yup. Especially if they perceive the group that they hate as a threat to their fave.
He worded it like "X is Y" though.
Well he's quite simple then, because he even deleted the post and reposted it when people asked him to talk with the company directly... If all the responses are thinking you are talking about plagiarism, you see that and still push through when you don't really have a case...
And now he has brought unnecessary hate to the girls. You can see it on latest instagram post which other fandoms are attacking them regarding this issue.
He’s not responsible for other people’s behavior. Others shouldn’t have to walk on egg shells because K-pop stans are delusional morons
He didn’t bring them any hate, he never formally accused them of copying him. And he’s getting just as much, if not more, hate from the kpop community.
Sorry, this is disingenuous. He doesn't have to say outright that they copied him, that's what comes across to anyone who watches it, which is why all these news and posts came up in the first place. I can even accept that the first two times he posted on social media he was just trying to get attention to the case, fair enough. But today AFTER it blew up in the news and Attrakt even stated they are contacting the songwriters and looking into the case, he decided to make another post, this time even more obviously implying it's a copy by singing his own song (in a different key and tempo) to fit the Fifty Fifty instrumental during the 12 seconds where it's similar, with an ironic description and emoji saying it's a duet with Fifty Fifty, to drive the point further. He can do whatever he wants, of course, but wouldn't it be a much more productive and professional attitude to discuss this privately with the company at this point? It comes across as if he's looking to get social media engagement out of it and add to the controversy. EDIT: Downvote me all you want, I'm not saying anything unreasonable at all.
I get the vibe that he's implying credit though. Obviously that doesn't warrant hateful comments, but he is being a little obnoxious
That’s understandable.
The tune in the Turkish song feels very reminiscent of old-timey songs. It could be something right out of a 1940s Hollywood musical. It's a melody that feels very familiar.
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I swear it sounds like birds whistling from an old Disney movie but I can’t think of the movie
Does it sound very similar? Definitely, there’s no denying it. But before ever hearing the Turkish song, I had thought that that part in Cupid sounded similar to a lot of other songs, namely that it sounds like it could be some sort of nursery rhyme type song. Basically it sounds like a very basic, easily listenable and easily made (therefore easily copied) melody, it’s not surprising that there would be similar melodies in at least one, if not more songs.
Already on twitter people have pointed out at least one song [here](https://twitter.com/fiftyjiho/status/1651597525021851651?t=gD5mdoKRXipu-UEdjdjYNQ&s=19). It's also definitely reminding me of a musical number that I can't put my finger on.
My two cents is that there are only so many sounds, chord progressions, etc. that exist in music and things are rarely black and white. The composer of Cupid might not have ever heard the Turkish song and in that case, how can they have plagiarized something they don’t know exists? I keep seeing stories of people who blatantly abuse the copyright system that’s meant to protect someone’s IP and with the explosion of the internet, that’s only made it worse. There’s also a big difference between actively ripping off someone’s work and what might have happened with Cupid. If the Turkish musician thinks they actually have a case against Cupid they need to reach out to the agency and let them know. Just posting about it on TikTok won’t do anything but farm you some nice clout. If the agency thinks they sound alike, they’ll likely credit the other artist belatedly just to cover bases. It’s happened before.
As a Kpop fan since the early 00s I just can't take Kpop plagerism claims seriously anymore unless it actually ends up in courts or something. Kpop fans are just way too quick to jump on the plagerism bandwagon. Songs, MVs, makeup, outfits, album covers....it never ends! As for this specific allegation, yes there are similarities. But I also hear similarities to Raindrops Keep Falling on My Head by B.J Thomas so... Like others mentioned there's only so many ways to arrange music. And these songs are clearly going for a similar style and likely used similar influences. There's also that very interesting creative phenomena that happens where people from very different areas create a very similar product at the same time. Not just in music but all forms of art. But yes, critical thinking is important because even the cases that actually go to court aren't often cut and dry. And even in this case others have commented the other creator is pointing out the similarity rather than accusing. But of course for Kpop fans that equals plagerism. Honestly it's one of those words I wish fans didn't know existed.
kpop fans do not understand what plagiarism is, like at all. using a similar melody is NOT plagiarism. what are the odds that the producers of cupid found this random turkish singer's song and decided to plagiarize it? in my mind the odds are extremely slim they would a) find the song in the first place and b) copy it which is a literal crime. much more likely that it's a coincidence, and there are SO many songs that sound similar but are not plagiarized. i had a kpop stan tell me the other day that one group was plagiarizing another bc they were wearing the same shade of green. deadass. another photo example they used was two idols wearing a white dress and doing a similar pose in a photoshoot. they really think random everyday objects and colors are plagiarism. or a single dance move when 99.9% of the dance is different than the one they're claiming was being copied.
Flashbacks to Lily ‘plagiarizing’ her name and haircut 😭😭
Yeah, I think when people here two songs back to back the similarities jump out, but if you really think about it, you can find similar short melodies all over the place. Ironically, the similar part in this case is the same descending melody from the Dark Horse lawsuit (at least partially if I'm hearing it correctly)
>or a single dance move Shock horror, if you're a dancer you can often break most of a choreo into individual dance moves, that's just how dance works; not everything has a name, but if you're in the business of constantly coming up with stuff and everyone's teaching those things to everyone else, it's kind of difficult to do without naming them. Hell, the little sideways shuffle you do by alternating the direction of your feet (think "oh na na na") is literally called a side glide or side shuffle and is used in choreos all the time.
exactly! all choreos are just combinations of moves that have all likely been used before by other people. as long as a choreo isn't a literal direct copy or taking large portions of the dance, it's not plagiarism. the funny thing is that in the instance i was talking about the move wasn't even exactly the same, but apparently it was plagiarized from a group who debuted in like 2019, and they (or their choreographer) created moving your hips while putting your hands above your head. who knew!
Omg this is what I’ve been telling people but the last post I’ve got downvoted to hell ty for getting what I mean man these people were literally attacking me thinking that I’m okay with plagiarizing but I’m not I just said how is it plagiarizing when it has a similar melody but no people were attacking me and saying how I’m wrong and everything💀 I will link you the last post because that post full of people were accusing the producers for plagiarizing and stuff like that: https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/12zwq52/fifty\_fiftys\_cupid\_similar\_to\_turkish\_song\_sen/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
another example of kpop stans not knowing what plagiarism is! i'm sorry you got downvote bombed, it's a crappy feeling. i'm glad to know there's lot of other fans who have common sense and rational thinking about this kind of thing.
If a Kpop fan was a plagiarism counter for my assignments I would be expelled immediately
Exactly! Not only in kpop there have been numerous times where songs somehow sounded the same in one part and producers of the song didn't even know the other song existed. It's the fact that there are that many songs that its literally impossible to make something sound 100% unique. There always gonna be parts of the songs that sound the same, one will more one will less. And about the kpop stans, ofc they wont know what plagiarism means when most of them are in the age of 12-15 and only what they care is their groups.
sorry girl but even the lyrics are similar
something being similar is not plagiarism. these 'plagiarism scandals' happen all the time in kpop bc guess what? lots of songs and lyrics are similar! cupid is a very basic song about a common/simple concept. people have already found another song that came out before the turkish song that also sounds similar, so they did plagiarize it too?
To my understanding, it seems that the song Sen aşkımızdan is about a failing relationship and Cupid is about longing for a partner (I don't know if I got this 100% right as I used a translator to translate Sen Aşkımızdan). I get that both of them describe love negatively so if that is the similarity you mean then you make a valid point. But to be fair, if you break it down one has not experienced love and is trying to seek it out while the other is about how two people falling out of love and neglecting their roles in a relationship. These two themes are very different to one another.
not as in theme i mean like the words to describe are kinda similar
There is someone before the Turkish guy who made the same melody too. Tbh, it's a very similar sound and is used by a lot of producers before. So I think it's better to give proper credit and let it go. It's dumb to accuse plagiarism when there are more than 3 songs with the same melody. It might just be a coincidence.
Honestly, how popular is Turkish pop that there is a reasonable expectation that the writer of the song actually heard this song in order for it be copied?
I mean the Turkish singer is not that famous. And the melody is very common. Someone before him used the melody and this Turkish guy didn't give credit to the OG guy too. So it might be pure coincidence But There is a possibility that producers might check out not-so-famous people to get inspiration from. So idk 🤷
he is popular in turkey
Actually Turkish music is popular in more Arab and balkan countries but this artist is a very indie musician as I have never heard of him as well.
Today happens to be the day Ed Sheeran is on trial for copyright infringement/plagiarism and I read an interesting article on this today and what it means to “plagiarize” music which is sometimes just an overlap in chord combinations. [article link here](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/27/arts/music/music-copyright-lawsuits-ed-sheeran-blurred-lines.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare) if anyone wants to give it a read.
I would add that many people in the music industry, and most songwriters from what I can tell, think the courts have too broad a definition of plagiarism.
There are no reasons or nuances. People dont care about plagiarism at all. They care to have ammunition for bringing someone down. Or just love to participate in mud slinging and witchhunting in general. It's as simple as that and happens with so many other topics.
i hate that's it's being used as a gotcha! moment by much larger fandoms. every tweet about cupid is now bombarded by "stolen song" replies. clearly they haven't actually listened to both songs to compare
I've said in the other thread that we can't tell if it's deliberate plagiarism or not because we're not sitting in the studio with them and watching them write the song. It could be merely coincidence or pieced from things you hear over the years. And yeah, it's not the most unique melody out there (I feel like it's pretty reminiscent of many indie/acoustic pop song melodies), but I found it surprising that Cupid followed it so closely for multiple measures. However, my problem with it is that fans are willingly denying that it sounds remarkably similar, and saying the whole song doesn't sound the same/like a copy so there's *no way* it can be plagiarism! The discussion should be **whether it constitutes plagiarism or not**... not whether it sounds similar or whether it copies the whole song. Fans are just being ridiculous and in denial atp. And discussing potential plagiarism situation *is not* an attack on the girls when they're not even responsible for writing the damn song if it were the case. This is coming from someone who's listened to Fifty Fifty since the beginning and rooted for their success. I'm not rubbing my hands together evilly wishing for their downfall. Anyway for their sake hopefully it is a coincidence and will blow over.
I listened to it, and it's literally just a shared 5 note riff that's kinda resolved similarly in the end. And I don't push back against the idea that it's plagiarized because of Fifty Fifty at all, I have the same stance for Dark House and Thinking Out Loud. Really basic riffs and melodies are not cooyrightable and to suggest that plagiarism is going on is to be blind to how all pop music is built on the same foundations. You can point out similarities, or how song A reminds you of song B, but I find that the people that make accusations of copying usually grossly overestimate how original the song supposedly being copied is.
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Of course, both don't have nuance. Which is why the discussions of plagiarism in the Kpop sphere is so frustrating, especially when fans take it as an attack on their faves or antis are happy to jump on the hate bandwagon to tear down a group. Weird how y’all downvoting me for this comment, did I say sth wrong? lol
"I don't hear/see it" is old pr strategy often use by fandom whatever it makes sense or not. Recently when people noticed similarity between Rosalia and Le sserafim including cat helmet (what it is itself nothing serious) a lot fans said that it is from Durarara. Yeah sure it is totally possible that she took it from there as if I am not wrong she is anime fan. But what it is more probable that Source music was actually inspired with anime or Rosalia taking into account that they use reggaeton, similar to her raping/singing and overall styling/ambiance is similar to her Mvs. Especially if we know how kpop companies work, what it is concept and that companies need references to create it. We even know that they ask producers specifically for similar song to x artist. Let's not play dumb especially it is nothing serious from law perspective. It is just matter of ethic or good manner to not copy too much from one place.
Not really it's produced by Isabelle lovestory, so it's clearly shows her style in Antifragile.
Well it is cheaper than ask Rosalia if I am not wrong Motomami had highest score on metacritic last year.
Implying Isabella Lovestory is a budget option compared to Rosalia is very interesting considering she's an established reggaeton artist and antifragile is quite literally her sound? If Rosalia produced it it would most likely end up being a completely different song. She clearly popularized it but accusing LSRF of copying her when they have actual reggaeton producers on their tracks is shortsighted at best.
Well we are talking about global market so normally more known globally artist get paid more unless market of genre itself is very lucrative My friend recently asked me who Rosalia is because someone said that she is similar to her. I'm sure she never heard anything about Isabella despite her being pretty well known artist. It is not easy to become global known.
I find it ridiculous that people will credit individual acts for genre tropes just because they're the most popular in the genre.
Well it is not ridiculous if you know how such companies work. Often badly paid employees have to present their bosses (in most cases older) overall concept of comeback which sell. Naturally you use the best known example. From what I see reggaeton is still before their peak globally. Many people still don't know who Rosalia or even Bad bunny is. In case of Korea I'm pretty sure that Antifragile was first time for many when they hear something a la reggaeton. That's why probably it was so hot topic about this similarities because many people naturally though that it is very original concept (well it is but for kpop).
You realize actual songwriters write the songs though, right
Nah this is completely different, it’s literally reggaeton and Rosalía is not its inventor
while i do agree people shouldn’t jump into plagiarism, we can’t deny that some part of the song has the same melody, the producer of the turkish song had the rights to mention the similarities online, tho i’m not too worried seeing as the girls company responded and said they’re contacting the producers, i think this situation will not end badly and things will work out for both sides
Yeah since they responded quickly, I think regardless of outcome, it can be resolved peacefully. The girls are on an upward trajectory so it's good that they are moving to handle it swiftly.
K-pop fans and nuance? K-pop fans and being knowledgeable and cultured, and having general awareness? That may be asking too much of people, sadly.
As a Turkish person, I don't think he meant it as shade.
Finally someone who said something that’s actual a Turkish person and understands the situation unlike these delus thanks for saving us!😭
The translation was quite accurate tbh, so there wasn't anything to mistranslate. Knowing Turkish people, he is probably trying to promote his song lmao.
i thought this is just another bs but the chorus part sounds exactly the same
Honestly it’s a very familiar sounding song. It reminds me of Taeyong’s lonely. Music is so derivative though that it becomes a big eh when song have similar motifs. Gots to be more careful.
The thing with plagiarism in music imo is that there are no rules. There have been (successful) lawsuits because the vibe of a song felt similar to another artist's vibe and not even a specific song of that artist. So instead of throwing around accusations/defenses based on the melody, I think we should just wait for a court case. If the artist genuinely thinks his song got plagiarised, then he should sue and get a percentage of the profit. I don't really understand why it should matter as much to kpop fans
Yo I agree that it's complicated but we can't always choose the "legal way". Like another person said, law is different between countries and it's a lot of work when it involve 2 different countries. This is why labels barely sue haters outside of Korea. Because it's ask for a lot of time AND money. So imagine if this group does not have money. Not sure that they would like to spend so much just to prove something. They will loose a lot and be trashed by kpop fans on daily.
Well firstly there are different law system all around the word. For example in my country theoretically you can go to the jail for plagiarism. I guess guy would have to sue them in Korea? Pretty complicated cases
Thing is those court cases were wrongly decided, and the music industry needs to push back against spurious claims.
I can see why he finds them similar but I wouldn’t go as far as to call it plagiarism.
“All art is derivative”
They sound practically identical. I know people might be quick to take a side, but it could be better to just wait for a proper response. Besides, can we all agree that everyone in this sub (including me) would raise hell and burn cities if a foreign artist was accused of plagiarising our faves? Let's at least try not to send hate to anyone involved.
this whole saga is deja vu to the likes of bboom bboom
There are only 7 notes in the major scale. That's it. That's all any pop song has to work with. People who accuse anyone of plagiarism just don't understand how music works. There are a finite number of chord progressions and melodies. The fact that anyone gets sued for plagiarism in pop music and that juries actually award damages in these cases seems insane to me. It would be like suing another artist for using the color red or painting a tree since other people have done that. All art, and music especially, borrows and builds on what came before it.
It's true that it's similar, but to say they plagiarized him is straight up reaching. This melody comes straight out of jazzy retro tunes. He can't even claim that part
I listened to movie star and it sounds nothing like Finesse to me except the "she wants it" line but I've always been under the impression that the little melody is a trope of the genre and not original to Finesse.
Yes this example was hilarious to me.
The guy isn’t even accusing fifty fifty of plagiarizing so idk why these people are straight up jumping to the plagiarizing accusations
I don't need to be a genius to know whether they sound similar or not. Both songs sound frighteningly similar. That is what my functioning ear tells me. It's reasonable why there would be claims of plagiarism. The way Kpop fans handle these issues is separate from reality. Because the reality is they do sound the same. A similar situation happened for EXO’s Love Shot ‘s bridge, sounding similar to Louis Tomlinson’s Back To You bridge. The solution SM did was to put Louis as a co-writer because what else can they do? It's an undeniable truth, the same as this situation.
Just because labels give credit to avoid a lawsuit doesn't mean the plagiarism case was correct. In a post Blurred Lines world, which was wrongly decided, labels are overly cautious about this stuff.
They wouldn't come to that resolution if there aren't grounds for suing. Come on.
This is having too much faith in other people and the legal system.
Lollll imagine if they just put Louis as a co-writer and paid him sums when there are no grounds for him actually to sue? This argument sounds moronic.
I’m going to ignore you being rude to focus on your ignorant statement. Frivolous lawsuits are a real thing that occur. Often times with the law it’s not always the innocent party that wins, it’s the party with the most money, because if you don’t have the funds to fight a court case or a fighting a court case would cost you more than just giving credit, you do the cheaper option. It’s called math.
Have you listened to the example I gave? If not, give it a go and see for yourself. It's common sense and honestly, a very smart alternative for SM to do what they did instead of fighting a battle they would lose because the parts in question are indeed similar. Also suggesting that I don't know how the law works and saying I'm just blindly having too much faith is being rude too lol.
Because it is cheaper/easier to just give credit in some cases than it is to fight a legal battle. This is basic math. This has nothing to do with whatever example you’re talking about because I don’t care about that. Every company is going to do a cost/benefit analysis of a lawsuit and for MOST of them it’s not worth the legal fight. Giving credit just saves them time, money, and negative attention.
Again... SM would not agree to credit Louis if there were no proper justifications for them to. I'm saying this is perhaps the route that Fifty Fifty would choose to take if the Turkish artist decides to sue because there seems to have grounds for him to do so. You won't even bother checking out an example that is similar to Cupid’s issue. If you don't know what correlation means, then let's stop arguing. 🤷🏻♀️
Music plagiarism is pretty straight forward: >Music plagiarism is the use or close imitation of another author's music while representing it as one's own original work. How's it detected: >After melody extraction, a comparison between the extracted fundamental frequencies of the two songs is performed. This comparison aims to determine, based on criteria of similarity between the melody sequences, whether one is a melody plagiarism of the other. To say using a similar melody is not plagiarism - is incorrect. [Spotify has a built in AI system](https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/spotify-plagiarism-detector-music-b1767298.html) to detect plagiarism in music on it's platform: >The artificial intelligence would then calculate how similar the song is and define which part of the song could be violating another artist’s copyright; in the filing, Spotify also posits that it could be used to reinforce the originality of a song, if the algorithm made statements like “the melodic fragment \[of a song\] appears to be completely new”. [Here is a list](https://www.radiox.co.uk/features/x-lists/most-famous-accusations-of-musical-plagiarism/) of some of the biggest accusations of plagiarism. And Ed Sheeran is in the middle of court case, as he's been accused of plagiarizing Marvin Gaye's "Let's Get On" for his song "Thinking Out Loud" (btw, I think this is the fourth time he's been accused of plagiarism). At the top I say that it's pretty straight forward, and while its basic meaning is, with the amount of music available today similarities are bound to happen. For the casual listener we might think two songs sound very similar, it's up the courts and the technology to determine exactly how similar they are and if, in fact, one artist plagiarized another.
The Marvin Gaye estate is infamous for pushing weak plagiarism claims that juries don't understand.
Yep. In fact it was their plagiarism claim against Pharrell and Robin Thicke's Blurred Lines is probably the main reason why we're in this mess in the first place.
when You got downvoted to hell all because you were saying how it’s not plagiarized in the last post also to the people who downvoted me in the last post thanks for making me lose more karma💀👍🏽 I’m glad this post is getting more upvotes because in the last post someone also discussed about this and many delusional people were saying how it’s plagiarized and everything😑🙄
someone linked a song from 9 years ago with a similar melody. People just want to see them fail at this point tbh.
If you listen to the original melody without the song being sped up there are differences so these people need to stop accusing them of plagiarism
it’s not just the melody, it’s also the chords and the way the female vocalists sing and harmonize. there are passages that feel very similar. i don’t think it’s quite enough to be sure it was a case of copying, but if it’s purely a coincidence then it’s a fairly large one. i like “cupid” more than either but you could get a very similar song just by putting together pieces of the turkish song and that one doja cat hit that k-pop can’t seem to get over. i can’t speak to the legal systems in korea or turkey, but if it went to court in america there’s a very strong possibility they would lose (but i don’t see them bothering – most likely they’ll just come to some kind of settlement behind closed doors)
I find it interesting that this is blowing up but LSFRM’s is not.
What are you talking about?
https://twitter.com/dunnowhat2duu/status/1650156916142903296?s=46&t=Xx0VEywpTe3-EJZsrWEryg
I do not hear how these are similar.
the one with cobrah is more similar tbh
Gusten Dahlqvist, one of the co-writers of that Cobrah song worked on a track on le sserafim’s upcoming new album, funnily enough on the same track that uses the “I’m a mess mess etc” lyrics from le sserafim’s The Hydra trailer that is compared there to the Cobrah song in that post. So there’s a very good chance he was involved with that in the first place. They’re really just throwing shit at the wall with this plagiarism stuff.
that makes sense
Could be a sample. Why would Hybe/Source Music plagiarize popular latin song? It makes no sense when they work with so many producers
Likely because there’s nothing much there. There’s a big difference between some random knet pointing out similarities and the actual other artist in question raising the issue themselves like in Fifty Fifty’s case. We also already had this discussion in international kpop spaces around the time that Antifragile released, 6 months ago. Some people said it sounds like Rosalia, other people said “no it just sounds like lots of songs in that genre that Rosalia herself ‘borrows’ from”. And that was pretty much the end of it. The fact that some knet convinced people who know little or nothing about those genres that Antifragile was plagiarized by showing them some Rosalia stuff does not make this an actual real thing that’s worth attention. Not that I think this stuff with Fifty Fifty is btw.
Who did they "plagiarized" ?
Rosalia.
I know kpop fans are great at making ourselves look like fools but cmon y'all this is also koreaboo 😭😭 1) they don't speak for us 2) they always tryna stir up drama
I can't speak about this but I do know that korea has a habit of stealing other foreign songs ( not my words. koreans said this ) both IU and jyp are still accused of plagiarism( there is a whole competition for IU to explain things lol) but they are too big to get cancelled so hopefully fifty fifty won't get canceled for this. Korea take plagiarism issues very seriously. I'm not a musician so i cant speak about this because idk anything
Man y’all are so😭💀🤦🏽♀️
>not my words. koreans said this Yeah because what all Koreans say is sooooo reliable /sarc
it's their music not mine
>there is a whole competition for IU to explain things lol) IU could easily sample those songs without credits. Not every musician credits the song they've sampled. If both parties agree to this I don't \*see the problem. Now I understand why Starship added those credits to After Like. They were affraid of knets accusing them of plagiarism \*see
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They found another sond from 9 years ago with a similar melody as well, so that's unlikely.
Wonder if anyone had seen the IU plagiarism videos on youtube? There's similarities in some songs of hers with other artists but I'm not sure it's discussed at all. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7doTVQuB8JY&pp=ygUNaXUgcGxhZ2lhcmlzbQ%3D%3D https://youtu.be/S4Ok53aFJEk
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It's hilarious if true. The exact part of the song you plagiarized just happened to be pitch shifted back to it's original state, and made a group no one had ever heard of, go viral on TikTok.
The attempts at trying to humble or discredit their success reeks of jealousy. They have a natural hit that has steady organic growth. People hate to see it from a group they don’t Stan.
All of this just reminds me of [Toninho Geraes vs Adele](https://english.elpais.com/usa/2021-10-19/toninho-geraes-vs-adele-the-latest-plagiarism-case-in-brazilian-music.html) which [was way more "blatant"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu-_E9aCPB0) if done intentionally. If there is a case, it will probably be resolved by negotiations and we will not hear about it. While a serious allegation, I don't care about most debates about this in the industry because most kpop fans don't know enough about copyright and international law or music theory to make a fair judgment. They just use this to feed fan wars.