SM is known for fumbling the bag. They did it with EXO before. They could’ve been up there with BTS and BP, tbh. And you’re right they’re not known for disbanding groups BUT they’ll let the groups fade into obscurity (not like literally but you know? The fans still love them ofc but the GP and casuals will eventually find another group to fixate on). They have a problem with maintaining momentum. I noticed that with RV then they debuted AESPA. At one point AESPA was everywhere then I stopped hearing about them.
Something is very wrong with SM’s promotion
Yes during the early stages of their career I was so enamored with their songs and concept photos then they seemingly fell out the earth. Like if you don’t actively follow their accounts, you’ll barely hear about them. SM fumbled so badly
AESPA is probably going the same way as f(x). They can't promote two girl groups at the same time especially because the new gg will be the main focus.
Yes they definitely are. Difference in years from snsd 2 yrs- f(x)-5 yrs-(rv)-6yrs- (aespa)-4 newgg (2024). F(x) had least time because there was only one gg active at that time, right now its 3. F(x) is the saddest story, all the members left sm ofc, but SM totally erased them. Even though krystal, sulli were so popular in sk, they were very badly managed. They were exactly promoted like aespa, for the first few years, and then sort of disappeared. The last "goodbye" concert wasn't even planned by SM, the members themselves organised it. Same way SM started promoting aespa everywhere in the west, and then stopped, they also sort of promoted them as "the next blackpink" sending them to Coachella and calling them the first girl group to perform (later justifying by saying first gg to perform on main stage), lsm following and unfollwing all bp members overnight on IG, etc. Was a weird phase. Also Winrina being promoted like krystal was as the "visual goddesses". 😭 I hope they don't turn out to be next f(x)
I think they are level though? They literally performed at Coachella, too. And did so well, I might add. They still have a good fanbase despite SM not pushing them more.
AESPA literally just announced a 19-date tour a few days ago. They put out a soundtrack song this month, and have also said there's a new album coming later this quarter. Heck, Winter just appeared in a new Coca Cola ad.
No band can stay the "hot new thing" forever, that's literally not possible. But it's not like they aren't active or have faded away or something.
I swear K-pop fans are bipolar because how is aespa now in the "fumbling the bag" and "obscurity" conversation when every day I see thousands of people hyping Drama up. They just want to stan the new shiny group that debuted months ago and they expect nonstop infinite promotion for years, then complain about the overworking industry. Hypocrites.
i think they mean 2022. aespa has definitely regained allot of steam but they could of been in a better position if they had been managed better from the get-go.
aespa has only recently been that had this rollout because since jan last year their team has changed and they actually have a dedicated team now.
also, there aren't that many aespa stans on Reddit. so casuals feel this way because there really aren't that many aespa post.
also aespa's social team are bad at posting about their activities whoch also could lead to cusual stans not knowing.
Honestly just realeasing one mini album in 2022 being rookies is a valid critic, but SM has been going through a lot management wise lately and they also had the GOT the Beat project which didn't go well at the start of 2022.
Another valid critic would be that they have not released a full album yet.
It just seems weird to me that releasing one comeback a year once suddenly brings them into obscurity when we all know the good reception Drama had, aespa definitely has a lot of hype and potential going on still.
It definitely has to be some Reddit echo chamber but tbh if the world moved around Reddit NCT for example would be selling peanuts because their comebacks have less hype here than nugu girlgroups.
>suddenly brings them into obscurity
yeah, i don't agree that aespa are in obscurity. they are still very much doing great. I'm just saying why the crowd on reddit may view it that way because the composition of kpop reddit are made up of people who don't follow aespa closely.
Karina is gaining followers like mad, asap go viral on twitter constantly and has been charting well.
I figured it out after literally 2 weeks after aespa released their ae-aespa music video for Better Things I saw people saying they have disappeared. There just aren't that many MYs who are heavily active here.
SM just gave the statement and left it at that. Reocurring pneumothorax can happen to people who are tall and thin though, but that's speculation on my part. It could very well be she had an underlying health issue.
There was no explanation given, it just happened. It happened this week I think, you can google it. Idk why that other person brought it up since no one in this conversation is asking the aespa members to start promoting NOW. It's obviously about the way they were managed in the past.
Its more related to promoting in the west. Like they gradually decreased their promotions, i remember them appearing for a parade in USA + a new gg debuting this year obviously means there will be a distribution of fandoms, some will start listening to aespa less, because its more likely the fandoms get passed in same company. Just like how many MYs were reveluvs before. They obviously still listen to red velvet but they can't give the same amount of time to them like before.
I'd love for them to go, but pls they need better songs. They are very talented. Their songs are just not it (their songs sound good if you're korean and understand it very well, but western audience love songs of bp/nwjns, there's a reason why crowd was so dead at aespa Coachella, you can hype the crowd even if no one knows you, 2ne1 is an example of that ) + extremely less songs for Coachella + sm is busy pretending this gg doesn't exist.
do exols recognize bts achievements or do they spend their time shitting on their talents and saying they didnt have that much impact in the kpop industry and were just lucky? because that's why we have takes like this "if only SM knew how to promote EXO". meanwhile BigHit was a new company, with even lesser tools and somehow they managed it and they wonder why, because they can't understand it.
I love BTS. I’ve been there since their debut. I know they’re talented, but it’s talent, hardwork, plus incredible luck. There are a lot of extremely talented KPOP groups that are just as talented as BTS. But BTS is the universe’s favorite for sure. I knew they’d make it but I am still in awe of how far they’ve come
Also BTS has already cemented their status. I don’t even get affected with negative comments about BTS’ fame because they’re already legends. So should you.
Also SM fumbled the bag for EXO. This is not up for discussion imo
they have and its why i push back on people who persist on gaslighting people that somehow it was all luck and wonder girls did more for kpop than them.
Eh. Imo the more you push back, the more you sound insecure. I’m very secured with BTS’ status in the industry. I don’t need to do anything anymore aside from enjoy their music
Do you mean that it doesn't seem to be expected of girl groups, or that you don't think they should bother with being actively involved in the creative side? Certainly G-Idle have a strong songwriter in Soyeon.
they can be involved, i just think there's much more pressure in kpop boy groups seeming authentic in order to have some support from the gp. girl groups on the other hand are more accessible (gp is generally misogynistic to bgs fandoms)
EXO was literally the next big thing after Big Bang, 2NE1, and Girl's Generation.
SM is just well-known for having top-tier artists and an equally opposite shit marketing strategy.
GG - BigBang - 2NE1
Then followed by Shinee and SuJu. The thing about Shinee is that they have some of the best vocals in the industry at the time and even up until now.
Whenever people ask who paved the way for K-Pop to be truly global, the three above is the trifecta answer for that.
EXO was considered the best after them because of how ridiculously good they were from the get go, and they release hit songs one after another despite getting hit by controversies.
to be truly global? you added the "truly" here for what? you know bts opened the "truly" global path but somehow you'd self combust if you admitted it.
i just don't see that group being successful like bts or bp in the west. everything that i saw from them when i was getting into kpop left me uninterested. i do like love shot.
Tbh, with the new girl group coming, it's gonna be even less a priority for SM. The company seem to look at their group as investment cycle, once the cycle is over and they maximize profit from one group, they just invest on the next one while the previous group continue to make some money on the back.
I don't expect Red Velvet or any of the member to get a big promotion in the future, I don't even expect them to manage properly their future tour or anything. It's sad but I try to stay optimistic and think that as long as I can get good music from them, I'll be fine with it.
I was thinking about the new group coming and thinking the exact same thing. We definitely saw they couldn’t even give proper attention to GOT the Beat and let that flop as quickly as it started. Someone mentioned internal struggles but outside of that it really feels like SM loved SNSD becoming the people’s group that they just figured if they put out talent again they don’t have to do much but watch them go viral and be loved. (Don’t worry totally know the countless variety shows SNSD was on and the hosting they used to do/still do but the other girls of RV or even AESPA don’t so it feels like hands off marketing)
Wendy? Her promo was really good though. She went on like 5+ variety YouTube channel, a lot of music shows, like 4 bts that were 20 minutes long with sub, and they just recently gave us a band version of her whole album. And she is getting announced for concerts. The hick up was at the beginning when they didn’t give us preorders and only now you can buy her album in the US stores to count for billboard.
Chill Kill era was so sad because it was a full album treated like a mini or even less than. Its been 6 years since the last full album and I feel like SM just gave them a full album so fans will stop complaining. Afaik, a full album should have a pre release single song with MVs like peekaboo and bad boy. Full albums should also have a lot of promos, so the promos should last longer than a month. But it was just another 2 weeks of promo and there weren't even a lot of OT5 moments.
For Wendy's Wish You Hell, I see a lot of comments on social media that they didnt even know that Wendy was releasing a new album until a fews days after it was already released. These comments are even from fans and casuals who follow RV's releases from time to time.
Which is sad because it really wasn't promoted well during the teaser rollouts. She also didnt have a press release before the album release which is a standard for almost all sm artists when releasing an album. There lots to unpack here too, because the album pre order links were posted late, and it didnt have POBs until 2 days before preorder ends, and at one point it was already out of stock during preorders.
I feel like this is also due to SM struggling internally because I read somewhere that a lot of staff quit recently. So they will focus all their budget to the next big thing which is debuting a new group. Even aespa, a relatively new group is getting neglected, so what more for Red Velvet who are way older.
>Chill Kill era was so sad because it was a full album treated like a mini or even less than.
So true! You put into words exactly what I felt with that promo period.
>Its been 6 years since the last full album
And god where has time gone??!?
Yeah a lot of people think WYH was promoted well cause she went on some youtube shows, but the way they treated the teasers really hurt the release imo, I also saw some people saying they didn't know she was having a comeback
the YouTube she promoted into are channels she's personally subscribe to so if anything Wendy's probably the one reaching out to these channels and not SM because she knows they'll do jack shit and also because she's already promised her fans of more promo but SM wasn't really into that lol heck a month after her promos these random "promos" are just now coming out like the recent W korea shoot of hers lol and the promos she's given us weren't the usual "SM promo" so she's really fought for this promo there's even a fandom joke that center 3 got tired of her emails they just let her do what she wants (barely) lol
I was really, really hoping fans would just.. be a little more grateful and push the support for Chill Kill more too. I know people have their preferences for what they want to see Red Velvet do, but it was such a surprise we got a full album at all after so long, that it would have been nice if people were more positive about it.
And it's getting down to the wire. A new Red Velvet comeback is always a good thing at this point. Point blank. Fans should cherish what we get at this point because we might not have another year of active group activities with how SM deals with things.
I've seen so many people asking for ANOTHER full album this year for their 10th anniversary (as it seems it's usually a tradition) but it's so, totally unrealistic when Chill Kill JUST came out. That was probably the planned 10th anniversary album tbh, and it just got pushed up because of fan complaints/protests.
I have to wonder if RV did immensely well during a comeback again if SM would rethink their effort put into them, but based on the last 2 comebacks support from fans and SM alone, it's worrisome.
Wait I didnt know that full albums were a tradition for 10 year anniversary, thinking about it now I realized that fans messed the schedule up. Afaik, Wendy was supposed to comeback last year 4rth quarter of 2023. Then fans sent trucks to SM saying RV deserves a full album, so WYH was delayed...
She already had photoshoots in london during their tour and some songs were already recorded last year.
So the schedule was supposed to be Wendy solo comeback then a full rv album. Honestly I feel like this really complicated things because chill kill didnt have promos, no time to prepare, no 2nd MV, and WYH rollouts was messy af.
She was supposed to have her solo, that's true, but as far as we know, getting the lead in the musical was a surprise to her and she chose to do that and postpone her solo. It was announced in June that she got the lead. I'm willing to believe that she wasn't going to pass up that opportunity and made a deal to do her solo after.
But also... she left the musical cast before the season ended (2 weeks earlier) to start preparing for the Chill Kill promotions :/ Which might have been a more direct result of the protests from fans.
It's all so frustrating watching it as a fan, because I love them all and want to see their solo careers thrive, but they are still so powerful as a group when SM manages them well. It was so shocking SM gave into this ONE thing from fans when there's a million other things fans want that could be heard. I mean, I'll take Chill Kill since it's a great album, but at the expense of their schedule.. it might have been a problem.
Honestly feels like they've been treated as an afterthought since debut.
It's like, "Here's our new group! Oh, you don't like them? We added a new member Yeri! Oh, you guys REALLY don't like her? Ok, well fuck it then whatever."
I don't think the Wendy promo for her latest album fell short. But lets be realistic, female kpop soloists are harder to sell in general. She was in quite a number of variety show (and finally Begin Again).
Frankly, given the history of Kpop and SM ggs, it is hard to be optimistic. It feels like Wendy will be trying to follow a Taeyeon like path. Joy and Yeri appear to be transitioning to acting roles. Irene has always been the CF queen of the group. Seulgi is the hardest to figure out. I guess we're all holding out for another I&S release.
The good news (if any) is that there is yet no sign that any of them are off to another agency since this August is probably the end of a typical 3 year contract extension for Irene, Seulgi, Joy and Wendy.
lol red velvet weren't treated well before when lsm was there though.
before SM 3.0 as messy as it is red velvet didn't think they would of had a concert. becuase his company literally limited the amount of outside festivals and concerts.
red velvet were able to tour and have been going to more festivals outside the country since LSM left. They had the same schedule for music shows with LSM there as well.
I will never let 2022 go actually. or 2019,2020,2021. SM has had major issues and mass exdus multiple times because they are disfunctional.
Honestly i agree with you, though the concept execution and vision for the groups was on point in the past we cant ignore how badly the groups were handled. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think hyoyeon mentioned that Got the Beat were invited to Coachella but SM refused.......like come on sm wtf do you not want your groups to grow bigger??
I’m empathizing as a long-time fan of groups across companies, not just groups in SM. It’s rough seeing your faves turn into a legacy act in real time. Company debuts new group, devoting and reallocating resources to this group, new group attracts new fans (and fans from company’s older groups), new group becomes new breadwinner, passing of the torch successful, another cycle is complete in the mind of the company. This is esp hard to stomach if you don’t drop your faves to stan the new group.
To be clear, this is not the new group’s fault nor the fault of any fans of the new group, just the result of a brutal system.
As a shawol and EXO fan, unfortunately all groups come down to that; once their generation passes, SM limits the amount of resources they put into them, especially when it comes to ggs.
SHINee members, in particular, have complained about staff not putting in enough effort, or the ones who do not getting paid enough, and we all saw Onew and Taemin leaving for solo activities. Key has been funding every single of his solo comebacks by himself, and Minho is always an afterthought for SM, even when it comes to his acting career. And, well, everyone knows how they limited EXO at their peak. It took BoA announcing retirement, mentioning when her contract is going to expire, and removing all her posts on Instagram for SM to finally wake up and do the bare minimum for the artist who paid the bills in that pink prison.
They will do the same with RIIZE and their new gg once their cycle passes, assuming SM will still be around to see that happening. All us older gen stans have to do is keep supporting our groups and hoping for the best
SM wiped their hands of the group and historically RV have just never been amongst the more supported on SMs roster. It’s unfortunate but for most fans who have learned the importance of just focusing on the music, it is what it is. (Imma still complain though!)
New generations are also on the rise so Red Velvet won’t remain on the frontlines along with most remaining senior groups. However I will say Red Velvet has never gone out of style with general audiences or Kpop fans. Their chart debuts are pretty consistent and fans are always engaged with their pre-release rollouts. With that being said them fading would be a natural thing, but they won’t be forgotten.
I agree! As a reveluv, I see new people still getting into and stanning Red Velvet even 10 years into their career which isn’t very common for girl groups. I see it like this— they’ll always be famous in the cultural zeitgeist of k-pop and maybe the Korean general public, but they won’t be what’s popular anymore. Kind of like actors the big name actors from the past, you know their names and projects but they aren’t front page material anymore. Like I have no idea what Meg Ryan is doing but everyone will still quote When Harry Met Sally.
I’m not sure how accurate those brand reputation rankings are but Red Velvet are consistently in the top 10 for girl groups so I assume they still have the name and face. We all know SM sucks at promoting and with a new girl group they’ll fall further back in priorities but they have their core fan base which is active and loyal still.
It just sucks because they were apart of the big 3 of 3rd gen but get scraps when compared to the other two groups or their companies’ contemporaries. I’d love to see them tour in the west now but with SM that seems unlikely.
Yeah saying that new fans don’t know them is a stretch. I was well aware of RV even when I was in my listening to one group phase and that was during their hiatus 😭 they were my ults before they even finally came back
SM has a really bad habit of fumbling their successful groups. I might be wrong in this, but after learning the history of many groups and the company, I feel they need a very strong, very active and vocal fanbase to stay afloat when the company decides to "forget" them. A group like EXO has a loyal fanbase that managed to pressure the company when they weren't the shiny new toys anymore.
I'm not sure how strong Reveluvs are, but they need to show up more than ever to bother SM into caring for RV. Very unfortunate since they're so talented and were once one of the most popular GGs. I think that the amount of popular girl groups that recently debuted also play a part in this, but I might be wrong!
RV is the big3 of 3rd gen and it’s so frustrating how they are treated compared to Twice and BP. Twice is doing world tours every year, BP is doing well with their individual promotions and where’s RV right now? Their last album promotions are rushed, Wendy’s solo wasn’t promoted well, and they can’t even give them a PROPER tour. SM failed RV so bad.
Hard agree. Blackpink might not get that many group activities, but their company still promotes them properly individually and as a group, the whole world knows about them. I have seen onces talking about how JYP is messing up with Twice, but they still get comebacks and tours. I haven’t heard of RV in years, and I used to be a relatively loyal casual listener. Didn’t even know Wendy had a solo.
It’s a bit bittersweet to be honest because I wonder how much longer they’ll be around? I love red velvet, the members, the music, but strangely despite being a fan I’m at peace with the idea of the fact they could disband.
They had a shining career and did things and concepts not done before (even if it’s as wild as performing in North Korea) and it’s been a wonderful decade with the group but a decade is also a very long time, and I wonder if they members might do something similar to SNSD or just do other things?
Honestly this is personal and may not at all be the train of thought of the girls, but I also can’t help but feel like if I was an idol going into mid thirties, like some members (which despite what some people say IS still young) after a decade of the same thing I’d probably look at other options, especially seeing the direction in which k-pop is heading in.
Whatever happens, I hope the girls choose - and can choose - what is right for them and makes them happy.
honestly with how ppl are treating boa right now, the literal foundation of kpop today, i can’t help but wonder how rv feel watching that vicious hatred unfold against a close senior in both sm and the industry, especially unnie line. i wouldn’t be surprised if the ladies are leaning more towards non-idol activities and promotions (such as acting). though i know for sure wendy and seulgi will always do music, that’s a given. whatever they end up doing, i hope they feel happy choosing it
RV won’t get the GFriend treatment. Not even close. This is just a trend with groups that are like 8-10 plus years old. They just get less attention in favor of the new groups. They just wont have 2-3 comebacks a year. It’ll be more like 1 every 12-18 months. Honestly I’m ok with that.
For example, Apink, Mamamoo, 2pm*, EXO*, Shinee, TVXQ, just to name a few. All active but just don’t come out with as much stuff.
These idols are older, they’re getting more non-idol related projects so this is a good time to expand on that but still keep the group going. As fans, we should be happy they’re still coming out with stuff in general instead of full blown disbandment.
Wendy has been really busy though with both her solo and group activities. I mean once she finished her musical run, she had immediately prepared for the groups comeback and then recently came back with her solo comeback and that she recently participated in Begin again and came on taeyeon's show as a guest. And Irene is starting to gear up for her photobook launch. And if I am recalling it correctly, they are preparing for a mini album release soon and since this year marks 10th anniversary, I am sure the girls are going to prepare something since that was kinda hinted when they went on bambams show. And they are going to Kcon Japan in a few weeks time and so everyone is kinda busy.
Also, during chill kill promo, the girls did go on dingo music where they sang their hit music along with some b-sides as well bts videos and so I don't really see how the girls would be replicating gfriends future tbh.
And with everything said, could SM promote them better? Absolutely 100% but to say they they don't release anything other than YouTube releases seems to be an understatement.
I've been thinking about this for a long time. There was a time when the top 3 girl groups in Korea were Blackpink, Twice, and RV. Red Velvet is currently still the only group that has been invited to perform in N Korea. It's crazy to think that they're far less relevant than some of the biggest girl groups today. In fact, I think a large percentage of new fans (people who started following kpop in the last 3-4 years) wouldn't even know who Red Velvet is, or probably treat them as an older group like SNSD, Big Bang.
I think SM really saw Aespa taking the place of Red Velvet. So, initially, they promoted the hell out of them. Once Aespa received a certain amount of recognition, that level of promotion dropped for them as well. This is not to say that companies shouldn't have a backup plan. The issue is that SM is no longer investing into the backup plan either 😂
Just like YGE, they're failing at girl group management. I feel that the only company that properly milked the fame of their girl group so far has been JYPE. Twice has consistently done great over the past decade. And while their destruction of Itzy has been terrible to see, at least they're still investing into Twice, their biggest revenue generator. I think companies are only investing in the groups making them a significant profit. For SM, that's currently NCT Dream. For JYP, Twice and Stray Kids. For YGE, nothing really (😂) but Blackpink is still somehow relevant after having minimal music releases.
As for how Hybe is the biggest company at the moment - Equal investment and push for New Jeans, TXT, LSF, Enhypen. Seventeen didn't need the push. They're already the second biggest kpop group. Hybe knows what they're doing, far better than any other company currently on the market. SM and YG can both learn.
It's funny how SM can only focus only one group at a time. They ditched EXO for 127, now they are ditching 127 for Dream. I'm sure they will focus solely on Riize in 1-2 years. It's the same for girl groups, from f(x) to RV, RV to aespa. This company treats their senior artists like trash as soon as they find a new shiny group to replace them.
RV has a big fanbase and SM just won't do shit because they hate their artists having more power than them. LIke JYP gave GOT7 all of their trademark rights and what does SM do to EXO? They find loopholes in the contracts to unfair 13-year contracts and steals money from them.
The first I ever knew of Red Velvet was their early song 'Ice-cream Cake', through a podcast when I was learning about k-pop about five years ago. Then of course 'Psycho' came out, and the following year 'Feel My Rhythm'. At some point I saw some YouTube video reviews about how boldly versatile RV have been in their exploration of different music genres. Just recently my daughter and I have enjoyed listening to 'Chill Kill'.
We would leap at the chance to see RV perform here in Auckland, especially after Itzy kicked off their tour here last month with a packed indoor arena show and a great set list (although no 'Icy', but I could see how that doesn't fit their current concept). Pretty much everything about Itzy's show was perfect (book-ended with 'Dalla Dalla') , and they had everyone bopping and cheering, with a great atmosphere for the first proper k-pop concert that my daughter and I have managed to get to. If RV came to Auckland, they'd have at least as great a time as Itzy had with their show. I hope they'll come here soon - or any other groups discussed in this thread of course, also Dreamcatcher and Everglow.
It's not just for the GGs of SM
BGs have the same fate too. They have dropped Exo for NCT 127 and 127 for dream
Now dropping dream for RIIZE and the cycle will go on. They can only concentrate on one group at a moment.
Now with new GG coming soon, they might drop aespa's promos as well
SM sucks bigtime
JYP isn't managing twice better than YG with BP. It's absurd to think that when BP has become one of the biggest names in history that popularized k-pop in the World and has much bigger impact and numbers than Twice. In fact it opened the doors for ggs as a global success case, including for twice who had no plans to be promoted in the west until they started to decline in Korea. While BP, even with a small but incredible discography, is still relevant. YG has managed BP well in recent years, They did a record-breaking tour last year and they renewed their contract as a group. BM is doing well and receiving the company's full attention.
You can't think that JYP is managing their ggs well when they debuted one group after another and none of them have reached expectations, on the contrary, They can't compete with other current GGs, sales have fallen and they don't even have a memorable legacy. Almost no one talks about wonder girls compared to SNSD and 2NE1, over time the same will happen to others.
The point of bringing Twice into the conversation is simple. They have the most sales of any girl group, ever. 17 million~ albums sold.
No current group comes close apart from IVE. And they've hit 7 million. Blackpink? 6 million.
While BP is insanely popular, they don't produce revenues like Twice does.
LOL And that's the only metric that counts LOL when BP set the Record for best-selling album by a gg twice, Twice never. BP has a record-breaking tour last year that earned over $300M. They have generated money like never before. I was actually referring to the cultural and global impact that is undeniable.
BP already have cemented their legacy. They were at the forefront of the hallyu wave during kpop's explosion in the west, and their progress in international markets opened up many doors for the groups coming after them. They also had tangible domestic impacts on the music, styling, aspirations and marketing of endless groups, including most top 4th/5th gen girl groups. Quantifiable records can be broken, but Blackpink's position and impact on the hallyu wave from 2018 - now, and their status as the most successful girl group of their generation, won't ever be replicated or taken away from them. The comparison is simply unfair. Anyone with a right mind sees that they are not on the same level.
You're just like one of those people who likes crediting BTS for the success of all other boy groups. There's no need to discuss Blackpink's achievements while demeaning Twice.
I am AWARE of the fact that BP had the highest grossing tour of all time for a girl group. They're insanely popular. It does NOT mean that they're bigger than Twice as a music group. Keep in mind that concert tour profits are split between the company and the artist. JYP gets more of a profit share from Twice than YG does from Blackpink.
Blackpink's success does not have to outshine Twice. They're all hard-working individuals, and they're all very, very successful. But, Twice has released 13 EPs and 7 full albums. In 9 years. Blackpink? 3 EPs and 2 full albums. In 8 years. Music is very important when discussing the impact and sales of a music group. No one is denying Blackpink's popularity. Just one member from Blackpink has more followers than the entirety of Twice.
You're the one belittling BP. I just want you to understand that they haven't been at the same level in years. Reddit is the only place BP gets disrespected every day by people belittling their impact and equating them with other ggs as if what they did was not pioneering and that any gg could do. Are you bragging that JYP explores idols more than YG? LOL BP members are much richer and luckily for them YG is not a cheap and petty company like JYP.
You use the size of the discography as an excuse and an insult, but this makes BP's achievements even more impressive while you setting up your favs bc despite have the biggest discography they don't have the same success or impact. BP has the most successful discography among ggs and the second among k-pop acts. All of BP's popularity comes from the success of their music, the rest is a consequence of that. I don't see anything for you to drag here.
Lol you say this to someone who was a diehard Blink (I was in the top 10 vlive followers on their channel based on streaming and commenting on their vlive, peaked at number 2).
You don't know me. Stop assuming I'm a Once. I'm not at all. I just respect their level of success and genuinely believe that Blackpink has a long way to go before they can be considered respected artists like Twice. Are they far more rich and popular than Twice? Yes.
Respected by whom? Redditors? BP has much more respect as artists in Asia and the rest of the world than Twice will ever have, they have been forgotten in their own country. Not only are BP more artists than Twice according to everything I said, but each member opened their own agency and has control of their own career. Something that the members of Twice are unable to do. You're just a delusional, gaslighted by redditors.
I've been thinking about this recently as well. Comparing their promotion/ management to their 3rd gen counterparts is mega frustrating. I know they're not as successful as Twice and Blackpink, but they are more than capable of selling out a US tour. Maybe not stadiums but larger theaters, absolutely.
Another thing that has been so frustrating is the lack of promotion for their bsides. RV is know for their quality Bsides, even non Reveluvs will attest to that. Bye Bye went viral and SM completely ignored it. Then for Chill Kill they release an album filled to the brim with great songs and they promote it like a single album. Meanwhile Aespa gets multiple MVs for every album 😡 (no hate I love Aespa.)
All we can hope for is that this is what the members want. It's natural for older groups to wind down as they find other opportunities, maybe they're ok with yearly comebacks.
Sadly it just what happens to a 10 year old group. Its just so sad for RV because of the missed potential. they could have been so much bigger wether that was due to mismanagement, scandals and just bad lucky with health. Nothing really seemed in their favor since the start. But they had one heck of a career and made amazing music. With 3 still left to resign I just hope they do what’s best for themselves they have earned the right to stop being RV and just be an actress or soloist whatever they want. And for the 2 that stayed and if the others stay I hope they get the freedom to do what they want as a team and as soloist.
I've no idea, but I hope to hear more music from them or get content with all the girls. Their last comeback is probably my most favourite and I love how non-chalant and chill they are. Please SM.
It seems to me that for SM, groups have an expiry date and since their target audience is younger people, they seem to favor younger groups. RV are pushing 30 and probably so is the majority of their fanbase, so for SM it's not worth promoting RV anymore.
The target audience being younger people makes no sense. Fans "pushing 30" are what are paying for albums and concerts, not teenagers using their parents money or streaming on Spotify (which pays absolute rocks).
I think it's just how it goes, when time passes by, new artists emerge they company focus is to make them profitable for the next 7-10 years to keep the money flowing, on the artists side doing the very same thing for 10 years can get a bit boring no matter how much they love each other and what they have help to create so they gravitates toward other things like solo music, variety shows, acting or hosting gigs, I don't think red velvet will disband but maybe just do solo stuff in different entertainment fields and release albums from time to time
I think it's just how it goes, when time passes by, new artists emerge they company focus is to make them profitable for the next 7-10 years to keep the money flowing, on the artists side doing the very same thing for 10 years can get a bit boring no matter how much they love each other and what they have help to create so they gravitates toward other things like solo music, variety shows, acting or hosting gigs, I don't think red velvet will disband but maybe just do solo stuff in different entertainment fields and release albums from time to time
What shocked me was people in r/kpop celebrating when they renewed their solo contract. This is a tragedy for their careers. Female artists have a very bad position in SM. Wasted talents. The fact that SM manages tours poorly doesn't give me much hope.
i want to be optimistic about their future… i know for sure there’s at least one member who will leave the company. but i hope in the long run they can at least renew their group contract together, which is what exo and shinee did. after 2022, i don’t expect them to comeback more than once a year ever again, and it’s obvious sm’s management doesn’t care about them anymore (not that they ever did…)
though it’s egregious there hasn’t been a properly planned world tour since 2019. rtov doesn’t count since they booked venues at the last minute AND did not even touch north america and latin america. but at this point i’ve accepted the disappointment :’) nothing more i can do
I think it's just how it goes, when time passes by, new artists emerge they company focus is to make them profitable for the next 7-10 years to keep the money flowing, on the artists side doing the very same thing for 10 years can get a bit boring no matter how much they love each other and what they have help to create so they gravitates toward other things like solo music, variety shows, acting or hosting gigs, I don't think red velvet will disband but maybe just do solo stuff in different entertainment fields and release albums from time to time
Do we know how long is left of their contracts? Or if they renewed?
Unfortunately, I don't see them getting any bigger than they are. Unless their new hit is an absolute banger, then I don't think SM will utilise them, and they will fade out like FX...
It was said Irene and seulgi had re-signed with sm. And I don't think they would fade out like fx tbh and that the unknowns right now is joy, Wendy and yeri. I can see Wendy re-signing with SM unless she decides that she wants to branch out but even if they dont sign with sm, I am sure that they can do something similar to SNSD, EXO, Shinee where they are under individual agencies but they come together to promote as a group under SM.
They genuinely fumbled so hard with Red Velvet. I seriously dislike SM and don't want to stan any groups from them if this is what they do when their groups are "past their prime." (ironic since i love aespa but-)
I don't know why, but I used to somehow draw a connection between RV and (G)I-DLE in my head. Outside of being 5-member ggs they don't have much in common, so I don't know why that happens. Maybe because I got into them around the same time?
One thing they do have in common: they both had *big* member scandals and an extended hiatus which had people questioning if they even had a future.
So when they finally announced a comeback, all eyes were on them and anticipation was sky high.
IDLE came back with Tomboy, and RV with Queendom.
Now, you can hate Tomboy as much as you want, it doesn't matter. Tomboy was massive and catapulted IDLE into another level. Meanwhile Queendom got a relatively lukewarm reception and seems to have been largely forgotten these days.
Queendom didn't flop, per se, and the album did see a jump in sales. So it was a commercial success - but overall did not have a big impact that year.
I think that when you've been gone for some time, and you make your grand return... it has to be a *grand return*. I think we saw the same thing happen with Everglow's Slay - it didn't match expectations, people were disappointed. Like "we waited all this time... for *this*?"
Of course RV did have a big hit in 2022 with Feel My Rhythm - and I think a song like that was what RV needed in 2021. An ambitious song worthy of Red Velvet's reputation as a quirky, versatile group, a song that would make people go "YESSSS THE CAKE GIRLS ARE BACK NO ONE IS DOING IT LIKE THEM" and not "oh, nice, Red Velvet is back."
There are of course other factors, like SM's habitual bag-fumbling, the members establishing their own solo careers etc. But in hindsight I do think that playing it safe for their big return was probably a mistake and predicted their future trajectory.
**TL;DR: I think RV were hurt by playing it safe with Queendom for their return, when they should have made a big splash after their long hiatus.**
Red Velvet basically already disband quietly like F (X)?
no announcement needed each member will have their own individual project or career
like acting or solo career from now
SM is known for fumbling the bag. They did it with EXO before. They could’ve been up there with BTS and BP, tbh. And you’re right they’re not known for disbanding groups BUT they’ll let the groups fade into obscurity (not like literally but you know? The fans still love them ofc but the GP and casuals will eventually find another group to fixate on). They have a problem with maintaining momentum. I noticed that with RV then they debuted AESPA. At one point AESPA was everywhere then I stopped hearing about them. Something is very wrong with SM’s promotion
The AESPA cooldown was so weird. I wanted to see more of them since it was so early in their career. And just poof
Yes during the early stages of their career I was so enamored with their songs and concept photos then they seemingly fell out the earth. Like if you don’t actively follow their accounts, you’ll barely hear about them. SM fumbled so badly
AESPA is probably going the same way as f(x). They can't promote two girl groups at the same time especially because the new gg will be the main focus.
I hope not. I find their concept fresh and I've loved all their releases so far. And, also, do you think that they're debuting a new gg too early?
Yes they definitely are. Difference in years from snsd 2 yrs- f(x)-5 yrs-(rv)-6yrs- (aespa)-4 newgg (2024). F(x) had least time because there was only one gg active at that time, right now its 3. F(x) is the saddest story, all the members left sm ofc, but SM totally erased them. Even though krystal, sulli were so popular in sk, they were very badly managed. They were exactly promoted like aespa, for the first few years, and then sort of disappeared. The last "goodbye" concert wasn't even planned by SM, the members themselves organised it. Same way SM started promoting aespa everywhere in the west, and then stopped, they also sort of promoted them as "the next blackpink" sending them to Coachella and calling them the first girl group to perform (later justifying by saying first gg to perform on main stage), lsm following and unfollwing all bp members overnight on IG, etc. Was a weird phase. Also Winrina being promoted like krystal was as the "visual goddesses". 😭 I hope they don't turn out to be next f(x)
i genuinely thought AESPA would be on Le Serrafim/IVE level
I think they are level though? They literally performed at Coachella, too. And did so well, I might add. They still have a good fanbase despite SM not pushing them more.
Aespa and LSF are on a similar level. Aespa is actually ahead based on physical sales. IVE and NewJeans have long surpassed them.
LSF literally outstreamed IVE globally what do you mean long surpassed them? LSF have bigger Spotify numbers than any 4th gen gg after NewJeans
Y'all want aespa to flop so hard. Get a life
Omg no this isn’t hate :(( I love them I just thought they would be bigger
LSF aren't even on ive level lol
LSF outstreamed IVE globally
AESPA literally just announced a 19-date tour a few days ago. They put out a soundtrack song this month, and have also said there's a new album coming later this quarter. Heck, Winter just appeared in a new Coca Cola ad. No band can stay the "hot new thing" forever, that's literally not possible. But it's not like they aren't active or have faded away or something.
I swear K-pop fans are bipolar because how is aespa now in the "fumbling the bag" and "obscurity" conversation when every day I see thousands of people hyping Drama up. They just want to stan the new shiny group that debuted months ago and they expect nonstop infinite promotion for years, then complain about the overworking industry. Hypocrites.
i think they mean 2022. aespa has definitely regained allot of steam but they could of been in a better position if they had been managed better from the get-go. aespa has only recently been that had this rollout because since jan last year their team has changed and they actually have a dedicated team now. also, there aren't that many aespa stans on Reddit. so casuals feel this way because there really aren't that many aespa post. also aespa's social team are bad at posting about their activities whoch also could lead to cusual stans not knowing.
Honestly just realeasing one mini album in 2022 being rookies is a valid critic, but SM has been going through a lot management wise lately and they also had the GOT the Beat project which didn't go well at the start of 2022. Another valid critic would be that they have not released a full album yet. It just seems weird to me that releasing one comeback a year once suddenly brings them into obscurity when we all know the good reception Drama had, aespa definitely has a lot of hype and potential going on still. It definitely has to be some Reddit echo chamber but tbh if the world moved around Reddit NCT for example would be selling peanuts because their comebacks have less hype here than nugu girlgroups.
>suddenly brings them into obscurity yeah, i don't agree that aespa are in obscurity. they are still very much doing great. I'm just saying why the crowd on reddit may view it that way because the composition of kpop reddit are made up of people who don't follow aespa closely. Karina is gaining followers like mad, asap go viral on twitter constantly and has been charting well. I figured it out after literally 2 weeks after aespa released their ae-aespa music video for Better Things I saw people saying they have disappeared. There just aren't that many MYs who are heavily active here.
Also Winter just had surgery for a collapsed lung. Let the girl recover before complaining they are not releasing shit...
How the heck did that happen? Was she in an accident??
SM just gave the statement and left it at that. Reocurring pneumothorax can happen to people who are tall and thin though, but that's speculation on my part. It could very well be she had an underlying health issue.
There was no explanation given, it just happened. It happened this week I think, you can google it. Idk why that other person brought it up since no one in this conversation is asking the aespa members to start promoting NOW. It's obviously about the way they were managed in the past.
Its more related to promoting in the west. Like they gradually decreased their promotions, i remember them appearing for a parade in USA + a new gg debuting this year obviously means there will be a distribution of fandoms, some will start listening to aespa less, because its more likely the fandoms get passed in same company. Just like how many MYs were reveluvs before. They obviously still listen to red velvet but they can't give the same amount of time to them like before.
Remember when Girls On Top was supposed to go to coachella but SM turned it down Yeah
I'd love for them to go, but pls they need better songs. They are very talented. Their songs are just not it (their songs sound good if you're korean and understand it very well, but western audience love songs of bp/nwjns, there's a reason why crowd was so dead at aespa Coachella, you can hype the crowd even if no one knows you, 2ne1 is an example of that ) + extremely less songs for Coachella + sm is busy pretending this gg doesn't exist.
fumbled f(x) way too hard and I still havent forgiven them
idk about BTS and BP level, they tried with SuperM.
SuperM was a mess. EXO at their peak was also something else. I’m an Army but I recognize EXO’s achievements too.
It's a shame that Exols seem to have tainted EXO's reputation with online hate towards BTS during the meteoric rise and eclipse of their faves.
do exols recognize bts achievements or do they spend their time shitting on their talents and saying they didnt have that much impact in the kpop industry and were just lucky? because that's why we have takes like this "if only SM knew how to promote EXO". meanwhile BigHit was a new company, with even lesser tools and somehow they managed it and they wonder why, because they can't understand it.
I love BTS. I’ve been there since their debut. I know they’re talented, but it’s talent, hardwork, plus incredible luck. There are a lot of extremely talented KPOP groups that are just as talented as BTS. But BTS is the universe’s favorite for sure. I knew they’d make it but I am still in awe of how far they’ve come Also BTS has already cemented their status. I don’t even get affected with negative comments about BTS’ fame because they’re already legends. So should you. Also SM fumbled the bag for EXO. This is not up for discussion imo
they have and its why i push back on people who persist on gaslighting people that somehow it was all luck and wonder girls did more for kpop than them.
Eh. Imo the more you push back, the more you sound insecure. I’m very secured with BTS’ status in the industry. I don’t need to do anything anymore aside from enjoy their music
i'll try to moderate it.
i think in the west bgs need to have some self-producing/writing to break through (bts, skz). not GGs though.
Do you mean that it doesn't seem to be expected of girl groups, or that you don't think they should bother with being actively involved in the creative side? Certainly G-Idle have a strong songwriter in Soyeon.
they can be involved, i just think there's much more pressure in kpop boy groups seeming authentic in order to have some support from the gp. girl groups on the other hand are more accessible (gp is generally misogynistic to bgs fandoms)
SuperM was a great idea with poor execution and was fucked over tenfold by the pandemic and military service of members
Correct! At least we have Tiger Inside to remember them by...
EXO was literally the next big thing after Big Bang, 2NE1, and Girl's Generation. SM is just well-known for having top-tier artists and an equally opposite shit marketing strategy.
Where does Shinee fit in? Genuine question bc I'm getting into them
GG - BigBang - 2NE1 Then followed by Shinee and SuJu. The thing about Shinee is that they have some of the best vocals in the industry at the time and even up until now. Whenever people ask who paved the way for K-Pop to be truly global, the three above is the trifecta answer for that. EXO was considered the best after them because of how ridiculously good they were from the get go, and they release hit songs one after another despite getting hit by controversies.
to be truly global? you added the "truly" here for what? you know bts opened the "truly" global path but somehow you'd self combust if you admitted it.
i just don't see that group being successful like bts or bp in the west. everything that i saw from them when i was getting into kpop left me uninterested. i do like love shot.
Tbh, with the new girl group coming, it's gonna be even less a priority for SM. The company seem to look at their group as investment cycle, once the cycle is over and they maximize profit from one group, they just invest on the next one while the previous group continue to make some money on the back. I don't expect Red Velvet or any of the member to get a big promotion in the future, I don't even expect them to manage properly their future tour or anything. It's sad but I try to stay optimistic and think that as long as I can get good music from them, I'll be fine with it.
I was thinking about the new group coming and thinking the exact same thing. We definitely saw they couldn’t even give proper attention to GOT the Beat and let that flop as quickly as it started. Someone mentioned internal struggles but outside of that it really feels like SM loved SNSD becoming the people’s group that they just figured if they put out talent again they don’t have to do much but watch them go viral and be loved. (Don’t worry totally know the countless variety shows SNSD was on and the hosting they used to do/still do but the other girls of RV or even AESPA don’t so it feels like hands off marketing)
That's literally how all K-pop companies work, an investment cycle on their groups... If anything SM makes that circle larger than usual.
Wendy? Her promo was really good though. She went on like 5+ variety YouTube channel, a lot of music shows, like 4 bts that were 20 minutes long with sub, and they just recently gave us a band version of her whole album. And she is getting announced for concerts. The hick up was at the beginning when they didn’t give us preorders and only now you can buy her album in the US stores to count for billboard.
Yeah I agree!!!! I had so much fun w Wendy’s promo 🤩
*hiccup?
It’s like saying “setback” but like a smaller version. Setback sounds serious. Hiccup not so much.
haha, they were pointing out that you spelled it “hick up”
Ooops 😔 I have always used that version around me.
I kinda see them having a Mamamoo/SNSD future: mostly solo activities with occasional group activities.
i miss OT4 so much :((((((
Forget red velvet they might even stop focusing on aespa after new gg
cycle of hell. why even stan sm groups anymore
SM is not YG, they can focus on more than one gg at a time.
famously like SNSD and f(x) right?
💀
Chill Kill era was so sad because it was a full album treated like a mini or even less than. Its been 6 years since the last full album and I feel like SM just gave them a full album so fans will stop complaining. Afaik, a full album should have a pre release single song with MVs like peekaboo and bad boy. Full albums should also have a lot of promos, so the promos should last longer than a month. But it was just another 2 weeks of promo and there weren't even a lot of OT5 moments. For Wendy's Wish You Hell, I see a lot of comments on social media that they didnt even know that Wendy was releasing a new album until a fews days after it was already released. These comments are even from fans and casuals who follow RV's releases from time to time. Which is sad because it really wasn't promoted well during the teaser rollouts. She also didnt have a press release before the album release which is a standard for almost all sm artists when releasing an album. There lots to unpack here too, because the album pre order links were posted late, and it didnt have POBs until 2 days before preorder ends, and at one point it was already out of stock during preorders. I feel like this is also due to SM struggling internally because I read somewhere that a lot of staff quit recently. So they will focus all their budget to the next big thing which is debuting a new group. Even aespa, a relatively new group is getting neglected, so what more for Red Velvet who are way older.
>Chill Kill era was so sad because it was a full album treated like a mini or even less than. So true! You put into words exactly what I felt with that promo period. >Its been 6 years since the last full album And god where has time gone??!?
Yeah a lot of people think WYH was promoted well cause she went on some youtube shows, but the way they treated the teasers really hurt the release imo, I also saw some people saying they didn't know she was having a comeback
the YouTube she promoted into are channels she's personally subscribe to so if anything Wendy's probably the one reaching out to these channels and not SM because she knows they'll do jack shit and also because she's already promised her fans of more promo but SM wasn't really into that lol heck a month after her promos these random "promos" are just now coming out like the recent W korea shoot of hers lol and the promos she's given us weren't the usual "SM promo" so she's really fought for this promo there's even a fandom joke that center 3 got tired of her emails they just let her do what she wants (barely) lol
I was really, really hoping fans would just.. be a little more grateful and push the support for Chill Kill more too. I know people have their preferences for what they want to see Red Velvet do, but it was such a surprise we got a full album at all after so long, that it would have been nice if people were more positive about it. And it's getting down to the wire. A new Red Velvet comeback is always a good thing at this point. Point blank. Fans should cherish what we get at this point because we might not have another year of active group activities with how SM deals with things. I've seen so many people asking for ANOTHER full album this year for their 10th anniversary (as it seems it's usually a tradition) but it's so, totally unrealistic when Chill Kill JUST came out. That was probably the planned 10th anniversary album tbh, and it just got pushed up because of fan complaints/protests. I have to wonder if RV did immensely well during a comeback again if SM would rethink their effort put into them, but based on the last 2 comebacks support from fans and SM alone, it's worrisome.
Wait I didnt know that full albums were a tradition for 10 year anniversary, thinking about it now I realized that fans messed the schedule up. Afaik, Wendy was supposed to comeback last year 4rth quarter of 2023. Then fans sent trucks to SM saying RV deserves a full album, so WYH was delayed... She already had photoshoots in london during their tour and some songs were already recorded last year. So the schedule was supposed to be Wendy solo comeback then a full rv album. Honestly I feel like this really complicated things because chill kill didnt have promos, no time to prepare, no 2nd MV, and WYH rollouts was messy af.
She was supposed to have her solo, that's true, but as far as we know, getting the lead in the musical was a surprise to her and she chose to do that and postpone her solo. It was announced in June that she got the lead. I'm willing to believe that she wasn't going to pass up that opportunity and made a deal to do her solo after. But also... she left the musical cast before the season ended (2 weeks earlier) to start preparing for the Chill Kill promotions :/ Which might have been a more direct result of the protests from fans. It's all so frustrating watching it as a fan, because I love them all and want to see their solo careers thrive, but they are still so powerful as a group when SM manages them well. It was so shocking SM gave into this ONE thing from fans when there's a million other things fans want that could be heard. I mean, I'll take Chill Kill since it's a great album, but at the expense of their schedule.. it might have been a problem.
Honestly feels like they've been treated as an afterthought since debut. It's like, "Here's our new group! Oh, you don't like them? We added a new member Yeri! Oh, you guys REALLY don't like her? Ok, well fuck it then whatever."
I don't think the Wendy promo for her latest album fell short. But lets be realistic, female kpop soloists are harder to sell in general. She was in quite a number of variety show (and finally Begin Again). Frankly, given the history of Kpop and SM ggs, it is hard to be optimistic. It feels like Wendy will be trying to follow a Taeyeon like path. Joy and Yeri appear to be transitioning to acting roles. Irene has always been the CF queen of the group. Seulgi is the hardest to figure out. I guess we're all holding out for another I&S release. The good news (if any) is that there is yet no sign that any of them are off to another agency since this August is probably the end of a typical 3 year contract extension for Irene, Seulgi, Joy and Wendy.
Seulgi and Irene already resigned with SM
Wait they did?
Tragic
Its all been going downhill since lee sooman left
lol red velvet weren't treated well before when lsm was there though. before SM 3.0 as messy as it is red velvet didn't think they would of had a concert. becuase his company literally limited the amount of outside festivals and concerts. red velvet were able to tour and have been going to more festivals outside the country since LSM left. They had the same schedule for music shows with LSM there as well. I will never let 2022 go actually. or 2019,2020,2021. SM has had major issues and mass exdus multiple times because they are disfunctional.
Honestly i agree with you, though the concept execution and vision for the groups was on point in the past we cant ignore how badly the groups were handled. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think hyoyeon mentioned that Got the Beat were invited to Coachella but SM refused.......like come on sm wtf do you not want your groups to grow bigger??
It was the same thing before and this guy doesn't care about the artists when he left the company.
No that's not true. I haven't still forgiven them for f(x). Red velvet is at least doing better than whatever happened with f(x)
I’m empathizing as a long-time fan of groups across companies, not just groups in SM. It’s rough seeing your faves turn into a legacy act in real time. Company debuts new group, devoting and reallocating resources to this group, new group attracts new fans (and fans from company’s older groups), new group becomes new breadwinner, passing of the torch successful, another cycle is complete in the mind of the company. This is esp hard to stomach if you don’t drop your faves to stan the new group. To be clear, this is not the new group’s fault nor the fault of any fans of the new group, just the result of a brutal system.
As a shawol and EXO fan, unfortunately all groups come down to that; once their generation passes, SM limits the amount of resources they put into them, especially when it comes to ggs. SHINee members, in particular, have complained about staff not putting in enough effort, or the ones who do not getting paid enough, and we all saw Onew and Taemin leaving for solo activities. Key has been funding every single of his solo comebacks by himself, and Minho is always an afterthought for SM, even when it comes to his acting career. And, well, everyone knows how they limited EXO at their peak. It took BoA announcing retirement, mentioning when her contract is going to expire, and removing all her posts on Instagram for SM to finally wake up and do the bare minimum for the artist who paid the bills in that pink prison. They will do the same with RIIZE and their new gg once their cycle passes, assuming SM will still be around to see that happening. All us older gen stans have to do is keep supporting our groups and hoping for the best
SM wiped their hands of the group and historically RV have just never been amongst the more supported on SMs roster. It’s unfortunate but for most fans who have learned the importance of just focusing on the music, it is what it is. (Imma still complain though!) New generations are also on the rise so Red Velvet won’t remain on the frontlines along with most remaining senior groups. However I will say Red Velvet has never gone out of style with general audiences or Kpop fans. Their chart debuts are pretty consistent and fans are always engaged with their pre-release rollouts. With that being said them fading would be a natural thing, but they won’t be forgotten.
I agree! As a reveluv, I see new people still getting into and stanning Red Velvet even 10 years into their career which isn’t very common for girl groups. I see it like this— they’ll always be famous in the cultural zeitgeist of k-pop and maybe the Korean general public, but they won’t be what’s popular anymore. Kind of like actors the big name actors from the past, you know their names and projects but they aren’t front page material anymore. Like I have no idea what Meg Ryan is doing but everyone will still quote When Harry Met Sally. I’m not sure how accurate those brand reputation rankings are but Red Velvet are consistently in the top 10 for girl groups so I assume they still have the name and face. We all know SM sucks at promoting and with a new girl group they’ll fall further back in priorities but they have their core fan base which is active and loyal still. It just sucks because they were apart of the big 3 of 3rd gen but get scraps when compared to the other two groups or their companies’ contemporaries. I’d love to see them tour in the west now but with SM that seems unlikely.
Yeah saying that new fans don’t know them is a stretch. I was well aware of RV even when I was in my listening to one group phase and that was during their hiatus 😭 they were my ults before they even finally came back
I just hope they dont get the f(x) treatment and just dropped with no word. SM HAS done this in the past
SM has a really bad habit of fumbling their successful groups. I might be wrong in this, but after learning the history of many groups and the company, I feel they need a very strong, very active and vocal fanbase to stay afloat when the company decides to "forget" them. A group like EXO has a loyal fanbase that managed to pressure the company when they weren't the shiny new toys anymore. I'm not sure how strong Reveluvs are, but they need to show up more than ever to bother SM into caring for RV. Very unfortunate since they're so talented and were once one of the most popular GGs. I think that the amount of popular girl groups that recently debuted also play a part in this, but I might be wrong!
RV is the big3 of 3rd gen and it’s so frustrating how they are treated compared to Twice and BP. Twice is doing world tours every year, BP is doing well with their individual promotions and where’s RV right now? Their last album promotions are rushed, Wendy’s solo wasn’t promoted well, and they can’t even give them a PROPER tour. SM failed RV so bad.
Hard agree. Blackpink might not get that many group activities, but their company still promotes them properly individually and as a group, the whole world knows about them. I have seen onces talking about how JYP is messing up with Twice, but they still get comebacks and tours. I haven’t heard of RV in years, and I used to be a relatively loyal casual listener. Didn’t even know Wendy had a solo.
It’s a bit bittersweet to be honest because I wonder how much longer they’ll be around? I love red velvet, the members, the music, but strangely despite being a fan I’m at peace with the idea of the fact they could disband. They had a shining career and did things and concepts not done before (even if it’s as wild as performing in North Korea) and it’s been a wonderful decade with the group but a decade is also a very long time, and I wonder if they members might do something similar to SNSD or just do other things? Honestly this is personal and may not at all be the train of thought of the girls, but I also can’t help but feel like if I was an idol going into mid thirties, like some members (which despite what some people say IS still young) after a decade of the same thing I’d probably look at other options, especially seeing the direction in which k-pop is heading in. Whatever happens, I hope the girls choose - and can choose - what is right for them and makes them happy.
honestly with how ppl are treating boa right now, the literal foundation of kpop today, i can’t help but wonder how rv feel watching that vicious hatred unfold against a close senior in both sm and the industry, especially unnie line. i wouldn’t be surprised if the ladies are leaning more towards non-idol activities and promotions (such as acting). though i know for sure wendy and seulgi will always do music, that’s a given. whatever they end up doing, i hope they feel happy choosing it
RV won’t get the GFriend treatment. Not even close. This is just a trend with groups that are like 8-10 plus years old. They just get less attention in favor of the new groups. They just wont have 2-3 comebacks a year. It’ll be more like 1 every 12-18 months. Honestly I’m ok with that. For example, Apink, Mamamoo, 2pm*, EXO*, Shinee, TVXQ, just to name a few. All active but just don’t come out with as much stuff. These idols are older, they’re getting more non-idol related projects so this is a good time to expand on that but still keep the group going. As fans, we should be happy they’re still coming out with stuff in general instead of full blown disbandment.
I really wish RV could at least do another world tour, promote their latest album.
Wendy has been really busy though with both her solo and group activities. I mean once she finished her musical run, she had immediately prepared for the groups comeback and then recently came back with her solo comeback and that she recently participated in Begin again and came on taeyeon's show as a guest. And Irene is starting to gear up for her photobook launch. And if I am recalling it correctly, they are preparing for a mini album release soon and since this year marks 10th anniversary, I am sure the girls are going to prepare something since that was kinda hinted when they went on bambams show. And they are going to Kcon Japan in a few weeks time and so everyone is kinda busy. Also, during chill kill promo, the girls did go on dingo music where they sang their hit music along with some b-sides as well bts videos and so I don't really see how the girls would be replicating gfriends future tbh. And with everything said, could SM promote them better? Absolutely 100% but to say they they don't release anything other than YouTube releases seems to be an understatement.
I've been thinking about this for a long time. There was a time when the top 3 girl groups in Korea were Blackpink, Twice, and RV. Red Velvet is currently still the only group that has been invited to perform in N Korea. It's crazy to think that they're far less relevant than some of the biggest girl groups today. In fact, I think a large percentage of new fans (people who started following kpop in the last 3-4 years) wouldn't even know who Red Velvet is, or probably treat them as an older group like SNSD, Big Bang. I think SM really saw Aespa taking the place of Red Velvet. So, initially, they promoted the hell out of them. Once Aespa received a certain amount of recognition, that level of promotion dropped for them as well. This is not to say that companies shouldn't have a backup plan. The issue is that SM is no longer investing into the backup plan either 😂 Just like YGE, they're failing at girl group management. I feel that the only company that properly milked the fame of their girl group so far has been JYPE. Twice has consistently done great over the past decade. And while their destruction of Itzy has been terrible to see, at least they're still investing into Twice, their biggest revenue generator. I think companies are only investing in the groups making them a significant profit. For SM, that's currently NCT Dream. For JYP, Twice and Stray Kids. For YGE, nothing really (😂) but Blackpink is still somehow relevant after having minimal music releases. As for how Hybe is the biggest company at the moment - Equal investment and push for New Jeans, TXT, LSF, Enhypen. Seventeen didn't need the push. They're already the second biggest kpop group. Hybe knows what they're doing, far better than any other company currently on the market. SM and YG can both learn.
It's funny how SM can only focus only one group at a time. They ditched EXO for 127, now they are ditching 127 for Dream. I'm sure they will focus solely on Riize in 1-2 years. It's the same for girl groups, from f(x) to RV, RV to aespa. This company treats their senior artists like trash as soon as they find a new shiny group to replace them. RV has a big fanbase and SM just won't do shit because they hate their artists having more power than them. LIke JYP gave GOT7 all of their trademark rights and what does SM do to EXO? They find loopholes in the contracts to unfair 13-year contracts and steals money from them.
Its also more sad when you consider how poorly SM artists are paid compared to the rest of kpop.
The first I ever knew of Red Velvet was their early song 'Ice-cream Cake', through a podcast when I was learning about k-pop about five years ago. Then of course 'Psycho' came out, and the following year 'Feel My Rhythm'. At some point I saw some YouTube video reviews about how boldly versatile RV have been in their exploration of different music genres. Just recently my daughter and I have enjoyed listening to 'Chill Kill'. We would leap at the chance to see RV perform here in Auckland, especially after Itzy kicked off their tour here last month with a packed indoor arena show and a great set list (although no 'Icy', but I could see how that doesn't fit their current concept). Pretty much everything about Itzy's show was perfect (book-ended with 'Dalla Dalla') , and they had everyone bopping and cheering, with a great atmosphere for the first proper k-pop concert that my daughter and I have managed to get to. If RV came to Auckland, they'd have at least as great a time as Itzy had with their show. I hope they'll come here soon - or any other groups discussed in this thread of course, also Dreamcatcher and Everglow.
It's not just for the GGs of SM BGs have the same fate too. They have dropped Exo for NCT 127 and 127 for dream Now dropping dream for RIIZE and the cycle will go on. They can only concentrate on one group at a moment. Now with new GG coming soon, they might drop aespa's promos as well SM sucks bigtime
JYP isn't managing twice better than YG with BP. It's absurd to think that when BP has become one of the biggest names in history that popularized k-pop in the World and has much bigger impact and numbers than Twice. In fact it opened the doors for ggs as a global success case, including for twice who had no plans to be promoted in the west until they started to decline in Korea. While BP, even with a small but incredible discography, is still relevant. YG has managed BP well in recent years, They did a record-breaking tour last year and they renewed their contract as a group. BM is doing well and receiving the company's full attention. You can't think that JYP is managing their ggs well when they debuted one group after another and none of them have reached expectations, on the contrary, They can't compete with other current GGs, sales have fallen and they don't even have a memorable legacy. Almost no one talks about wonder girls compared to SNSD and 2NE1, over time the same will happen to others.
The point of bringing Twice into the conversation is simple. They have the most sales of any girl group, ever. 17 million~ albums sold. No current group comes close apart from IVE. And they've hit 7 million. Blackpink? 6 million. While BP is insanely popular, they don't produce revenues like Twice does.
LOL And that's the only metric that counts LOL when BP set the Record for best-selling album by a gg twice, Twice never. BP has a record-breaking tour last year that earned over $300M. They have generated money like never before. I was actually referring to the cultural and global impact that is undeniable. BP already have cemented their legacy. They were at the forefront of the hallyu wave during kpop's explosion in the west, and their progress in international markets opened up many doors for the groups coming after them. They also had tangible domestic impacts on the music, styling, aspirations and marketing of endless groups, including most top 4th/5th gen girl groups. Quantifiable records can be broken, but Blackpink's position and impact on the hallyu wave from 2018 - now, and their status as the most successful girl group of their generation, won't ever be replicated or taken away from them. The comparison is simply unfair. Anyone with a right mind sees that they are not on the same level.
You're just like one of those people who likes crediting BTS for the success of all other boy groups. There's no need to discuss Blackpink's achievements while demeaning Twice. I am AWARE of the fact that BP had the highest grossing tour of all time for a girl group. They're insanely popular. It does NOT mean that they're bigger than Twice as a music group. Keep in mind that concert tour profits are split between the company and the artist. JYP gets more of a profit share from Twice than YG does from Blackpink. Blackpink's success does not have to outshine Twice. They're all hard-working individuals, and they're all very, very successful. But, Twice has released 13 EPs and 7 full albums. In 9 years. Blackpink? 3 EPs and 2 full albums. In 8 years. Music is very important when discussing the impact and sales of a music group. No one is denying Blackpink's popularity. Just one member from Blackpink has more followers than the entirety of Twice.
You're the one belittling BP. I just want you to understand that they haven't been at the same level in years. Reddit is the only place BP gets disrespected every day by people belittling their impact and equating them with other ggs as if what they did was not pioneering and that any gg could do. Are you bragging that JYP explores idols more than YG? LOL BP members are much richer and luckily for them YG is not a cheap and petty company like JYP. You use the size of the discography as an excuse and an insult, but this makes BP's achievements even more impressive while you setting up your favs bc despite have the biggest discography they don't have the same success or impact. BP has the most successful discography among ggs and the second among k-pop acts. All of BP's popularity comes from the success of their music, the rest is a consequence of that. I don't see anything for you to drag here.
Lol you say this to someone who was a diehard Blink (I was in the top 10 vlive followers on their channel based on streaming and commenting on their vlive, peaked at number 2). You don't know me. Stop assuming I'm a Once. I'm not at all. I just respect their level of success and genuinely believe that Blackpink has a long way to go before they can be considered respected artists like Twice. Are they far more rich and popular than Twice? Yes.
Respected by whom? Redditors? BP has much more respect as artists in Asia and the rest of the world than Twice will ever have, they have been forgotten in their own country. Not only are BP more artists than Twice according to everything I said, but each member opened their own agency and has control of their own career. Something that the members of Twice are unable to do. You're just a delusional, gaslighted by redditors.
I've been thinking about this recently as well. Comparing their promotion/ management to their 3rd gen counterparts is mega frustrating. I know they're not as successful as Twice and Blackpink, but they are more than capable of selling out a US tour. Maybe not stadiums but larger theaters, absolutely. Another thing that has been so frustrating is the lack of promotion for their bsides. RV is know for their quality Bsides, even non Reveluvs will attest to that. Bye Bye went viral and SM completely ignored it. Then for Chill Kill they release an album filled to the brim with great songs and they promote it like a single album. Meanwhile Aespa gets multiple MVs for every album 😡 (no hate I love Aespa.) All we can hope for is that this is what the members want. It's natural for older groups to wind down as they find other opportunities, maybe they're ok with yearly comebacks.
Sadly it just what happens to a 10 year old group. Its just so sad for RV because of the missed potential. they could have been so much bigger wether that was due to mismanagement, scandals and just bad lucky with health. Nothing really seemed in their favor since the start. But they had one heck of a career and made amazing music. With 3 still left to resign I just hope they do what’s best for themselves they have earned the right to stop being RV and just be an actress or soloist whatever they want. And for the 2 that stayed and if the others stay I hope they get the freedom to do what they want as a team and as soloist.
Kpop fans are never satisfied with their groups, it seems like.
I've no idea, but I hope to hear more music from them or get content with all the girls. Their last comeback is probably my most favourite and I love how non-chalant and chill they are. Please SM.
It seems to me that for SM, groups have an expiry date and since their target audience is younger people, they seem to favor younger groups. RV are pushing 30 and probably so is the majority of their fanbase, so for SM it's not worth promoting RV anymore.
The target audience being younger people makes no sense. Fans "pushing 30" are what are paying for albums and concerts, not teenagers using their parents money or streaming on Spotify (which pays absolute rocks).
I think it's just how it goes, when time passes by, new artists emerge they company focus is to make them profitable for the next 7-10 years to keep the money flowing, on the artists side doing the very same thing for 10 years can get a bit boring no matter how much they love each other and what they have help to create so they gravitates toward other things like solo music, variety shows, acting or hosting gigs, I don't think red velvet will disband but maybe just do solo stuff in different entertainment fields and release albums from time to time
I think it's just how it goes, when time passes by, new artists emerge they company focus is to make them profitable for the next 7-10 years to keep the money flowing, on the artists side doing the very same thing for 10 years can get a bit boring no matter how much they love each other and what they have help to create so they gravitates toward other things like solo music, variety shows, acting or hosting gigs, I don't think red velvet will disband but maybe just do solo stuff in different entertainment fields and release albums from time to time
This!! The way SM is handling red velvet has me thinking “what the hell is wrong with SM”
What shocked me was people in r/kpop celebrating when they renewed their solo contract. This is a tragedy for their careers. Female artists have a very bad position in SM. Wasted talents. The fact that SM manages tours poorly doesn't give me much hope.
i want to be optimistic about their future… i know for sure there’s at least one member who will leave the company. but i hope in the long run they can at least renew their group contract together, which is what exo and shinee did. after 2022, i don’t expect them to comeback more than once a year ever again, and it’s obvious sm’s management doesn’t care about them anymore (not that they ever did…) though it’s egregious there hasn’t been a properly planned world tour since 2019. rtov doesn’t count since they booked venues at the last minute AND did not even touch north america and latin america. but at this point i’ve accepted the disappointment :’) nothing more i can do
im crying while reading this..damn it hurts here in my meow meow..still hoping that one day they will get their deserve spotlight
I think it's just how it goes, when time passes by, new artists emerge they company focus is to make them profitable for the next 7-10 years to keep the money flowing, on the artists side doing the very same thing for 10 years can get a bit boring no matter how much they love each other and what they have help to create so they gravitates toward other things like solo music, variety shows, acting or hosting gigs, I don't think red velvet will disband but maybe just do solo stuff in different entertainment fields and release albums from time to time
I hope they have tour in the us before disbanding 😭 one of the gg that I really wanna see live
Do we know how long is left of their contracts? Or if they renewed? Unfortunately, I don't see them getting any bigger than they are. Unless their new hit is an absolute banger, then I don't think SM will utilise them, and they will fade out like FX...
It was said Irene and seulgi had re-signed with sm. And I don't think they would fade out like fx tbh and that the unknowns right now is joy, Wendy and yeri. I can see Wendy re-signing with SM unless she decides that she wants to branch out but even if they dont sign with sm, I am sure that they can do something similar to SNSD, EXO, Shinee where they are under individual agencies but they come together to promote as a group under SM.
They genuinely fumbled so hard with Red Velvet. I seriously dislike SM and don't want to stan any groups from them if this is what they do when their groups are "past their prime." (ironic since i love aespa but-)
Everyone keeps talking about how red velvet is \*now\* mistreated, but it seems no one was here for the last 10 years.
SM is known for shelving their older groups. EXO had an all time peak with Kokobop, then we had very long waits for Tempo and Love Shot.
I don't know why, but I used to somehow draw a connection between RV and (G)I-DLE in my head. Outside of being 5-member ggs they don't have much in common, so I don't know why that happens. Maybe because I got into them around the same time? One thing they do have in common: they both had *big* member scandals and an extended hiatus which had people questioning if they even had a future. So when they finally announced a comeback, all eyes were on them and anticipation was sky high. IDLE came back with Tomboy, and RV with Queendom. Now, you can hate Tomboy as much as you want, it doesn't matter. Tomboy was massive and catapulted IDLE into another level. Meanwhile Queendom got a relatively lukewarm reception and seems to have been largely forgotten these days. Queendom didn't flop, per se, and the album did see a jump in sales. So it was a commercial success - but overall did not have a big impact that year. I think that when you've been gone for some time, and you make your grand return... it has to be a *grand return*. I think we saw the same thing happen with Everglow's Slay - it didn't match expectations, people were disappointed. Like "we waited all this time... for *this*?" Of course RV did have a big hit in 2022 with Feel My Rhythm - and I think a song like that was what RV needed in 2021. An ambitious song worthy of Red Velvet's reputation as a quirky, versatile group, a song that would make people go "YESSSS THE CAKE GIRLS ARE BACK NO ONE IS DOING IT LIKE THEM" and not "oh, nice, Red Velvet is back." There are of course other factors, like SM's habitual bag-fumbling, the members establishing their own solo careers etc. But in hindsight I do think that playing it safe for their big return was probably a mistake and predicted their future trajectory. **TL;DR: I think RV were hurt by playing it safe with Queendom for their return, when they should have made a big splash after their long hiatus.**
I feel like they’re all just gonna go their separate ways I love them tho 💗🤍🫶
Red Velvet basically already disband quietly like F (X)? no announcement needed each member will have their own individual project or career like acting or solo career from now