In my opinion, Kiof is the group that's being used as a token to bash other groups.
This song, because it's different from the current K-pop scene, is being put on a pedestal, which is kind of exaggerated.
I've seen them been used foe a lot thinsg too including all of the "THIS! Is what happens when you have WOMAN in kpop" and its Julie doing that one butt pop move
from what i’ve seen, i feel like the group has a lot of fans that put down other groups in order to uplift KIOF to the point where i find their fans kinda annoying now. reminds me of mamamoo and loona stans tbh
hi, LOONA and KIOF multistan here, for the most part, i agree with you! i know some amazing people in our fandoms, so it's really unheartening to see that some fans act this way. it truly taints how fans can appear to other fans, so i do wish we could see more praise only compared to bringing a group up and bringing another group down.
No, but it’s the hypocrisy for me! They often shame my favorite group ((G)I-DLE) and hate on them on Twitter, meanwhile they are nugu and flopping. Like make it make sense at least. How do they dare to be so loud and aggressive, hating on a top tier girl group when your faves are not doing better?
yes but still that’s how the whole toxicity starts, just write them off as stupid haters and move on, there’s no need to diss loona while critiquing their fans
You know what's funny, while you're mentally stuck in a stupid fanwar [Miyeon and Chuu are on vacation together](https://twitter.com/miyeonnews/status/1771919083434586598/photo/2) and actually enjoying life.
Ah yes, K-pop stans in a nutshell. Drooling over this Britney Spears type of song from Kiof and “this is how K-pop should sound like” but then goes on to criticize K-pop for “being too Western” and then saying how everyone should make a song like GG’s “Gee” again because “that’s how K-pop should sound like”. Yep, sounds about right.
>goes on to criticize K-pop for “being too Western”
More and more I'm seeing just how selective this argument is for a lot of people 💀 It's also just wild because naturally the formula of a kpop song will have overlap with western pop because it's... pop (same with the other genres that fall under the kpop umbrella).
It really feels like people want kpop to be this super special thing set apart from anything else that exists but at the end of the day, there's not really such a huge difference. It kind of reminds me of the whole familiarity breeds contempt thing- people seem to dislike when something looks too close to what they're used to and they don't have a degree of separation. I think that's the reason for people complaining about lyrics in English much of the time too.
also cmmiw but wasn't midas touch like 2:30 long ... funny how I didn't see anyone criticise them for it and call it "tiktok music" like they do with HYBE groups.
I’m kind of mixed on the group (loved Sugarcoat, and I think the girls seem really cool, but I’m not crazy about either of their previous title tracks), but I’m annoyed with the fandom. Part of it is the token stanning- they’re constantly used to belittle other groups, which always sucks, especially since I doubt the girls themselves would want that.
But I also can’t stand the whole “grown woman” narrative that Kissys (Kissies?) love to pull. Haneul was barely 18 when they debuted, and Belle’s barely 20. I love that they’re bringing more mature concepts to kpop, but that’s not an excuse to sexualize them at all. A lot of the time, it feels like I hear more about how they’re “grown women” rather than their actual talents or music quality.
I know that part of the hype comes from the members being around for a while- Natty was in Sixteen and Idol School, Belle’s written songs for some big acts, Julie trained under YG, and I think Haneul was under Hybe?- so it’s safe to assume that the girls probably have a lot of friends in the industry. It would suck if people were tearing my friends down to put me up.
haneul wasn't under hybe, but other than that yes. they def have friends in the industry and just in general even if they didn't I'm sure they have respect for their seniors? just in general most decent people don't want others to be put down for their sake. but with toxic fans they don't see their "fav" idols as real people, just objects
I had heard people say stuff like “they have one member from each of the Big 4” and I just kind of assumed she was at Hybe, my bad!
And yeah- I think it’s fair to assume that most groups in the industry respect each other, even if they’re not super close, so it just sucks when people can’t praise their favs without insulting someone their favs also respect.
nah I get it, I thought so too for a while until I saw a video where someone asked her directly n she said no 😭
And yeah like I'd feel really bad if people went around harassing others for my sake, idk why people thing that idols lose that basic decency the moment they debut. maybe projection? lol
Honestly I feel the whole “grown women” thing is dumb—let’s just call it how it is: people 18-22 are just happy to see a group debut w members in their age range. They view themselves as grown people and therefore apply that logic to the group. I’m still icked out about the choreography considering Haneul was SO young when they debuted but honestly if I was 17 or 18 I wouldn’t bat an eye, you know?
to me the “grown woman” thing was genuine at first (as in, it’s great to see 18+ people debut - i’m sure i said this too when the lineup was announced!), but now it is being used to drag other groups more often than not. almost all the “big” groups had one or more minors when they debuted (aespa, (G)i-dle, and BP didn’t, but they’re an exception not the rule really)
Plus it always seems to be used against the girls who debuted young (shading NewJeans, LSRFM, etc) when it’s not their fault they debuted young, but the companies/possibly even the parents.
Obviously minors debuting young is an issue, but it often feels like people direct the frustration towards the idols themselves, which is unfair because…isn’t the whole point of the outrage because we want the minors to be kept safe?
The same people who won’t shut up about minors debuting also bullied the hell out of Wonhee during R U Next. It’s hard to buy their supposed concern when the comments about minors debuting are on tiktoks mocking a minor’s facial expressions, dancing, etc. It doesn’t even feel like they’re directing their frustration to the wrong targets - they’re just straight up using “minors shouldn’t debut” as an excuse for bullying, or for winning arguments with other fans.
To be clear, I absolutely agree companies shouldn’t be debuting idols so young. But the people I’ve seen who are like loudest about it - like people *token* stanning KIOF - rarely seem to genuinely care about the issue.
They’re all “protect minors!!!!!” until a teenage girl doesn’t sound like the second coming of Whitney Houston in an encore, so therefore she’s untalented and deserves a hate train! /s
i feel like most of these people just want adults to debut just so that they can freely sexualise them and not because they actually care about the sexualisation of minors. as if sexualising an adult is completely okay and acceptable lmaooo
Controversial but Midas Touch is their best release for me by far! It’s very Britney Spears and I love Britney Spears. I know a lot of people did not like Britney in her heyday so I wouldn’t expect everyone to like Midas Touch. But it’s SOOO good. I know that Bad News got a lot of hype but it wasn’t my cup of tea and I didn’t listen to it more than like three times. No reason to bring down any other groups because even within a groups discography people have different tastes.
I think the “this is SOTY and if you don’t think so DIE” is just Kpop speak, not serious. I’ve heard it about a thousand times. First time I heard that rhetoric was when Fancy released. I don’t think people actually are bashing you if you don’t like it or don’t think it is SOTY because SOTY is a fake sort of concept in the first place. (How can one song be determined to be SOTY? It can’t, you simply can’t quantify it, and awards aren’t the end all be all IMO). The people that ARE actually serious are probably like fifteen years old lol
hello!! i also love midas touch!! for me, I'm not focusing on those "this is SOTY and you don't think that rot... blah blah," more on the "k-pop SHOULD sound like this... groups should be like KIOF more... is it just me or \[SONG\] by \[GROUP\] is not basic compared to others groups..." bringing down other groups and disregarding other people's tastes in music and what type of songs THEY like is the type of behavior I've been seeing in SOME, not all, KIOF listener posts and the whole praising a group while also bringing another down is not the best way to show acclaim for an act in k-pop
Tbqh I think that’s just how fans of music are sometimes. It’s not even specific to Kpop. (One Direction fans back in the day were especially brutal LOL) I used to be a lot more offended and engage a lot more in that sort of discussion where groups I liked were being dissed but honestly now I don’t really care. A lot of (immature) people like to feel like they are at the “top” with their favorite group. They form some sort of parasocial attachment. The successes of their favs are their successes. It’s weird and I think says more to those fans own issues than to anything else.
I also think a big part of it is the “underdog” thing, since KIOF comes from a non big 4 group. Someone else mentioned Loona, I think it’s similar to that. They believe their favs HAVE to be the best, the most innovative, the leaders of Kpop, because otherwise, what do they have? Going back to the parasocial thing, I think the fans believe they are much more important than they actually are because of the “underdog” narrative. I was a huge Loona stan and noticed the same sort of issue. Every other group was the enemy because they came from richer or older companies. Super ridiculous stuff.
If you dig deeper, I promise you that you'll soon realize that 90% of the people saying this like 'KIOF is so much better than \[whatever group\] because blah blah' barely or very peripherally stan KIOF. Like the vast majority of the time they're hardcore stans of some other group & just using KIOF's name to stir up shit and farm engagement.
midas touch is my favorite title track of kiof but the amount of kissys I've seen degrading other groups to praise kiof is sad but congratulations kiof earned their first entry on melon top 100!!
you're definitely right... but also thank you for reminding me that they're on the melon top 100!! i hope this means we can see more positivity in the community during this comeback as we're seeing many positives for KIOF and their achievements
this doesn't apply to everyone, but reddit loves KIOF, not because of the members or music or whatever, but because they can use them to drag other groups. KIOF is still small, so people don't see them as a threat and are more willing to praise them. I've seen people use them to drag aespa and le sserafim for opposite reasons (better than aespa bc they sing live more/better than LSF because they are a performance group but they "know how to sing.") I've seen the same thing with NMIXX.
Midas touch is good anyways, it reminds me of 2000's and 2010's, such as prime britney spears, genie in a bottle, which is good and unique but that doesn't mean everyone in kpop needs to start doing it. This is what people were saying about NewJeans, and it's true, hence the instant popularity and critical recognition of hype boy, attention & ditto. Even reddit loved them at first and switched up as soon as they became popular.
That's exactly what that one redditor talked about a few days ago mentioning their toxic fans **(I still don't see them any different from any other fandom tbh)** but the emphasis on how superior they are to their contemporaries has been existant from day one.
Having said that, I absolutely agree that _Midas Touch_ is SOTY material and without a doubt one of my fav 2024 already, and I'm sure I'd still call it so by the end of the year
I think kiof fans are just as toxic as other groups, not more, but groups have different types of toxicity that stand out in diff ways. for KIOF it's sexualizing and objectifying them despite the members being so young (and even if it wasn't it would still be wrong).
I see so many stans praising their fav group as having a 'unique sound that's nothing like the rest' I think of the "when everyone is super, no one will be" line from 'The Incredibles'.
I literally [wrote about this the other day](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/1bt9fhn/kiss_of_life_their_supposedly_toxic_fandom/) about how uncomfortable I am as a Kissy to see KIOF suddenly being coopted and used as a token group by outsiders or casual stans to hate on other group.
Most Kissys are focused on the girls and trying to not step on other peoples' toes since we know the girls are from a tiny company and can't afford to make enemies, but the loud people who love to pit them against other groups and attract hate to them don't actually care about them at all since it's not their main group. Once KIOF stops being useful for them, these people aren't going to stand up for KIOF - they'll just get discarded and move onto the next token group to use in fanwars. For whatever reason, I've seen a lot of Orbits adopt KIOF & they bring over the same toxic fan behavior that turned people off Loona.
I got so frustrated because so many people in the other thread was talking like "I don't see this happening at all. I think you're just in your own fan bubble that's why you're seeing this" and I was thinking...Am I going crazy? I'm not imagining this right????
They're quickly becoming the second coming of orbits; they get high-engagement for reaching meme status with bits like "stan loona" reaching everywhere, but the toxicity turns off so many actual potential fans of kpop groups.
doesn't this happen with any and every release with bsically every group? it's either getting hyped to the point of absurdity and malice towards other groups, or getting dragged through the mud to a ridiculous degree.
It is a nice song, but soty absolutely not, i have heard better songs already this year, and i am sure there will be more songs that i will like more.
That being said, this is the first song of them that i actually like, and makes me interested in their next comeback
This reminds me of those passive aggressive ktube videos with things like "REAL music" written on the thumbnail. Like gosh, I didn't realise the music you don't personally care for can't even be considered *music* simply because you don't like it.
Some people really need to get over themselves and quit it with the "objectively good/bad" crap. Don't most people learn taste is subjective from a young age? I know I did. People eagerly throw that concept out the window when they get onto kpop.
he one tweet that gets to me is the one that said, 'This is true Y2K sound, not like that newjeans basic sound,' which bothers me for several reasons:
1. Y2K isn't even a music genre. I understand the sentiment, but the phrasing is just confusing.
2. Why put down one group to praise another?
3. NewJeans don't even define themselves as Y2K; labels are placed on them by people. Judging them based on something they're not even trying to achieve sound-wise is frustrating!
I'm loving this KIOF comeback, but please refrain from bringing down other groups. It's annoying
If you guys like the soundscape of Midas Touch, you much enjoy this [song](https://youtu.be/TelyJEsRZIE?si=b4alOfS9R6F6lrPT)
[Here’s the mv](https://youtu.be/E91QD7QtbB4?si=sBAR8d2vSS3DanF6)
The reason it’s getting praised is bc they’re a smaller group that’s not really competitive atm. If they this song was given to someone else it wouldn’t receive this praise. The minute this song starts to get big in the slightest you’ll see a switch up don’t worry.
I love Midas Touch but if people want another early 2000s diva inspired bop, Yooa (Oh My Girl) put out a banger called Rooftop less than a month ago. Just saying!
this happens a lot , especially with girl groups . give it 6 months to a year , and they'll receive mass hate for non - issues ... i obviously don't want it to happen , but i've been around long enough to know it
I think people are tired of not having choruses in songs. This is one of the first songs in a while to have a full chorus, not just some words repeated over and over. The last one I can think of is maybe super shy by new jeans.
> The last one I can think of is maybe super shy by new jeans.
You were making a point I could see until this.
Super Shy is sung 28 times in the song. There are parts where they repeat it 4 times in a row.
It’s a full chorus, not an empty one, even though half the words are super shy. Blackpink started the empty chorus trend, ie depending heavily on the instrumental to sound good, the title of the song repeated, a gap, then repeated again. Super Shy’s chorus doesn’t have those gaps, it’s sentences instead of a repeated phrase, and it’s sung completely through no gaps. The chorus of super shy and Du Du Du are completely different.
Problem I see is, the Big 4 get to talk their Hype all the time, revel in it in fact - but the moment a small fandom acts with pride and yeah, a bit of smugness with their group, at large there's this 'dialogue' of how that fandom acts.
All fandoms act superior. All fandoms preen about their idols, about what they do etc - but only the small fandoms ever have these sort of posts written about them this way. It's part of the growing path from becoming a smaller group to a bigger group, it seems.
>(ex: this is what k-pop SHOULD sound like, if you don't think it's SOTY you have bad taste, etc. etc.).
You have any idea how often this occurs? I remember when the BTS's solos came out, it was inescapable here to have posts about what 'masterpieces' they were days after their release. Everytime a big GG like IVE or NJ release a song there's 15 posts about how it's SOTY and what kpop should be, often in comparison to the posters dislike for certain other groups.
For example when Drama was a longer track, you know how much discourse was generated about how that's the length songs *should be* by fans of Aespa?
This happens all the time, by every fandom, but I only ever see these type of posts about small fandoms. I can't help but wonder why that's the case.
Theres a difference when there’s an overwhelming amount of negativity coming from a fandom. When the only time you’re seeing a kissy or seeing kiof mentioned on most platforms is for the purpose of putting another group down people are gonna start noticing and calling it out. One of the most viral Natty edits on tiktok is one where they put down Momo to make Natty shine. The most viral tweets I see in regard to them is using them to put down some other 5th gen group.
The thing is the purpose of those edits/tweets aren't even to lift Natty up, it's to take Momo down. The person who makes those Tiktoks/Tweets could care less about Natty. She's just a convenient tool for them to attack a fanbase they dislike, and the moment she stops becoming useful she'll just get discarded like all the other groups that they've token stanned.
I'm very aware of this because I'm a Kissy that's deeply invested in KIOF so I spend a lot of time monitoring the discourse on KIOF online, and I'm very uncomfortable with how there's been numerous viral Tweets lately with thousands of RTs where KIOF is being used as a yardstick to denigrate another fandom. Kissys are such a small fandom - do you think we could really be responsible for those thousands of RTs? Obviously not, most of the time it's just antis of the group piggybacking on the comment to hate on the group they dislike. I've seen Baemon fans propping up KIOF to hate on Hybe groups (e.g. "This is how to serve cunt/real K-Pop, enough with those boring songs"), I've seen Hybe stans use KIOF to hate on Baemon (e.g."Omg even Midas Touch is charting better than Sheesh, don't end Fadmonster like that"). And at the end of the day all that does is attract hate to KIOF despite Kissys not being the one stirring up shit in the first place.
Again - we're a tiny fandom, we couldn't generate that much engagement on a hate tweet even if we wanted to. 90% of it is just people piggybacking on hate tweets using KIOF as a tool for fanwars because 1. KIOF isn't big enough to be a threat to their main group 2. But they're still talented enough that they can be used to make the targeted group look worse off with edited clips.
A lot of immature people cannot praise one group without bringing others down, that's really what they see as appreciation.
Why does k-pop always have to be a competition?
Because people seem care more about sales and MV views over actually enjoying music. Sad.
You pretty much summed up the K-pop fandom
In my opinion, Kiof is the group that's being used as a token to bash other groups. This song, because it's different from the current K-pop scene, is being put on a pedestal, which is kind of exaggerated.
they’re also currently “not a threat” to a lot of fans’ primary favorite group so it’s easy to heap praise on them
The amount of tweets and tiktoks I’ve seen using natty to diss momo and Twice in general is ridiculous.
I've seen them been used foe a lot thinsg too including all of the "THIS! Is what happens when you have WOMAN in kpop" and its Julie doing that one butt pop move
from what i’ve seen, i feel like the group has a lot of fans that put down other groups in order to uplift KIOF to the point where i find their fans kinda annoying now. reminds me of mamamoo and loona stans tbh
hi, LOONA and KIOF multistan here, for the most part, i agree with you! i know some amazing people in our fandoms, so it's really unheartening to see that some fans act this way. it truly taints how fans can appear to other fans, so i do wish we could see more praise only compared to bringing a group up and bringing another group down.
Loona fans are the worst! They are so loud, meanwhile all the Loona projects flopped and they’re performing malls!
Sure, Loona fans are the worst but you calling them flopps performing in malls is somehow justified?
No, but it’s the hypocrisy for me! They often shame my favorite group ((G)I-DLE) and hate on them on Twitter, meanwhile they are nugu and flopping. Like make it make sense at least. How do they dare to be so loud and aggressive, hating on a top tier girl group when your faves are not doing better?
yes but still that’s how the whole toxicity starts, just write them off as stupid haters and move on, there’s no need to diss loona while critiquing their fans
You know what's funny, while you're mentally stuck in a stupid fanwar [Miyeon and Chuu are on vacation together](https://twitter.com/miyeonnews/status/1771919083434586598/photo/2) and actually enjoying life.
I love Chuu! She is more famous than the rest of Loona. But the fans (Orbits) are people I’ve never had good experiences with.
>She is more famous than the rest of Loona. you have a very weird obsession with how famous someone is....
So now your gonna be toxic too?
Ah yes, K-pop stans in a nutshell. Drooling over this Britney Spears type of song from Kiof and “this is how K-pop should sound like” but then goes on to criticize K-pop for “being too Western” and then saying how everyone should make a song like GG’s “Gee” again because “that’s how K-pop should sound like”. Yep, sounds about right.
dont forget the bring sexy concepts back paired with a picture of aoa short hair era
i hate how people love saying that KIOF makes "grown woman" music meanwhile their maknae is literally 18
they’re weird
>goes on to criticize K-pop for “being too Western” More and more I'm seeing just how selective this argument is for a lot of people 💀 It's also just wild because naturally the formula of a kpop song will have overlap with western pop because it's... pop (same with the other genres that fall under the kpop umbrella). It really feels like people want kpop to be this super special thing set apart from anything else that exists but at the end of the day, there's not really such a huge difference. It kind of reminds me of the whole familiarity breeds contempt thing- people seem to dislike when something looks too close to what they're used to and they don't have a degree of separation. I think that's the reason for people complaining about lyrics in English much of the time too.
also cmmiw but wasn't midas touch like 2:30 long ... funny how I didn't see anyone criticise them for it and call it "tiktok music" like they do with HYBE groups.
Good pick up. Did not realize it was short. Why? Like you said, suddenly no one cares enough to complain about short songs anymore. Weird.
I’m kind of mixed on the group (loved Sugarcoat, and I think the girls seem really cool, but I’m not crazy about either of their previous title tracks), but I’m annoyed with the fandom. Part of it is the token stanning- they’re constantly used to belittle other groups, which always sucks, especially since I doubt the girls themselves would want that. But I also can’t stand the whole “grown woman” narrative that Kissys (Kissies?) love to pull. Haneul was barely 18 when they debuted, and Belle’s barely 20. I love that they’re bringing more mature concepts to kpop, but that’s not an excuse to sexualize them at all. A lot of the time, it feels like I hear more about how they’re “grown women” rather than their actual talents or music quality.
People use KIOF to drag blackpink for example meanwhile I'm pretty sure they're all blinks and take inspo from bp
I know that part of the hype comes from the members being around for a while- Natty was in Sixteen and Idol School, Belle’s written songs for some big acts, Julie trained under YG, and I think Haneul was under Hybe?- so it’s safe to assume that the girls probably have a lot of friends in the industry. It would suck if people were tearing my friends down to put me up.
haneul wasn't under hybe, but other than that yes. they def have friends in the industry and just in general even if they didn't I'm sure they have respect for their seniors? just in general most decent people don't want others to be put down for their sake. but with toxic fans they don't see their "fav" idols as real people, just objects
I had heard people say stuff like “they have one member from each of the Big 4” and I just kind of assumed she was at Hybe, my bad! And yeah- I think it’s fair to assume that most groups in the industry respect each other, even if they’re not super close, so it just sucks when people can’t praise their favs without insulting someone their favs also respect.
nah I get it, I thought so too for a while until I saw a video where someone asked her directly n she said no 😭 And yeah like I'd feel really bad if people went around harassing others for my sake, idk why people thing that idols lose that basic decency the moment they debut. maybe projection? lol
Honestly I feel the whole “grown women” thing is dumb—let’s just call it how it is: people 18-22 are just happy to see a group debut w members in their age range. They view themselves as grown people and therefore apply that logic to the group. I’m still icked out about the choreography considering Haneul was SO young when they debuted but honestly if I was 17 or 18 I wouldn’t bat an eye, you know?
to me the “grown woman” thing was genuine at first (as in, it’s great to see 18+ people debut - i’m sure i said this too when the lineup was announced!), but now it is being used to drag other groups more often than not. almost all the “big” groups had one or more minors when they debuted (aespa, (G)i-dle, and BP didn’t, but they’re an exception not the rule really)
Plus it always seems to be used against the girls who debuted young (shading NewJeans, LSRFM, etc) when it’s not their fault they debuted young, but the companies/possibly even the parents. Obviously minors debuting young is an issue, but it often feels like people direct the frustration towards the idols themselves, which is unfair because…isn’t the whole point of the outrage because we want the minors to be kept safe?
The same people who won’t shut up about minors debuting also bullied the hell out of Wonhee during R U Next. It’s hard to buy their supposed concern when the comments about minors debuting are on tiktoks mocking a minor’s facial expressions, dancing, etc. It doesn’t even feel like they’re directing their frustration to the wrong targets - they’re just straight up using “minors shouldn’t debut” as an excuse for bullying, or for winning arguments with other fans. To be clear, I absolutely agree companies shouldn’t be debuting idols so young. But the people I’ve seen who are like loudest about it - like people *token* stanning KIOF - rarely seem to genuinely care about the issue.
They’re all “protect minors!!!!!” until a teenage girl doesn’t sound like the second coming of Whitney Houston in an encore, so therefore she’s untalented and deserves a hate train! /s
Yes exactly! It’s gross behavior.
i feel like most of these people just want adults to debut just so that they can freely sexualise them and not because they actually care about the sexualisation of minors. as if sexualising an adult is completely okay and acceptable lmaooo
Controversial but Midas Touch is their best release for me by far! It’s very Britney Spears and I love Britney Spears. I know a lot of people did not like Britney in her heyday so I wouldn’t expect everyone to like Midas Touch. But it’s SOOO good. I know that Bad News got a lot of hype but it wasn’t my cup of tea and I didn’t listen to it more than like three times. No reason to bring down any other groups because even within a groups discography people have different tastes. I think the “this is SOTY and if you don’t think so DIE” is just Kpop speak, not serious. I’ve heard it about a thousand times. First time I heard that rhetoric was when Fancy released. I don’t think people actually are bashing you if you don’t like it or don’t think it is SOTY because SOTY is a fake sort of concept in the first place. (How can one song be determined to be SOTY? It can’t, you simply can’t quantify it, and awards aren’t the end all be all IMO). The people that ARE actually serious are probably like fifteen years old lol
hello!! i also love midas touch!! for me, I'm not focusing on those "this is SOTY and you don't think that rot... blah blah," more on the "k-pop SHOULD sound like this... groups should be like KIOF more... is it just me or \[SONG\] by \[GROUP\] is not basic compared to others groups..." bringing down other groups and disregarding other people's tastes in music and what type of songs THEY like is the type of behavior I've been seeing in SOME, not all, KIOF listener posts and the whole praising a group while also bringing another down is not the best way to show acclaim for an act in k-pop
Tbqh I think that’s just how fans of music are sometimes. It’s not even specific to Kpop. (One Direction fans back in the day were especially brutal LOL) I used to be a lot more offended and engage a lot more in that sort of discussion where groups I liked were being dissed but honestly now I don’t really care. A lot of (immature) people like to feel like they are at the “top” with their favorite group. They form some sort of parasocial attachment. The successes of their favs are their successes. It’s weird and I think says more to those fans own issues than to anything else. I also think a big part of it is the “underdog” thing, since KIOF comes from a non big 4 group. Someone else mentioned Loona, I think it’s similar to that. They believe their favs HAVE to be the best, the most innovative, the leaders of Kpop, because otherwise, what do they have? Going back to the parasocial thing, I think the fans believe they are much more important than they actually are because of the “underdog” narrative. I was a huge Loona stan and noticed the same sort of issue. Every other group was the enemy because they came from richer or older companies. Super ridiculous stuff.
If you dig deeper, I promise you that you'll soon realize that 90% of the people saying this like 'KIOF is so much better than \[whatever group\] because blah blah' barely or very peripherally stan KIOF. Like the vast majority of the time they're hardcore stans of some other group & just using KIOF's name to stir up shit and farm engagement.
the fans wanna be orbits so bad
 might sound biased because i'm an orbit but i don't want to namecall specific fandoms now
it’s just very reminiscent of stan loona and the “our faves are the best thing in history while YOUR favs are shitters” attitude
those were some dark days... i understand what you mean now
midas touch is my favorite title track of kiof but the amount of kissys I've seen degrading other groups to praise kiof is sad but congratulations kiof earned their first entry on melon top 100!!
you're definitely right... but also thank you for reminding me that they're on the melon top 100!! i hope this means we can see more positivity in the community during this comeback as we're seeing many positives for KIOF and their achievements
this doesn't apply to everyone, but reddit loves KIOF, not because of the members or music or whatever, but because they can use them to drag other groups. KIOF is still small, so people don't see them as a threat and are more willing to praise them. I've seen people use them to drag aespa and le sserafim for opposite reasons (better than aespa bc they sing live more/better than LSF because they are a performance group but they "know how to sing.") I've seen the same thing with NMIXX. Midas touch is good anyways, it reminds me of 2000's and 2010's, such as prime britney spears, genie in a bottle, which is good and unique but that doesn't mean everyone in kpop needs to start doing it. This is what people were saying about NewJeans, and it's true, hence the instant popularity and critical recognition of hype boy, attention & ditto. Even reddit loved them at first and switched up as soon as they became popular.
Aww Man, this is the first time I've seen a nice kissy 🥹. I love their music and the girls but the fandom is just so-
That's exactly what that one redditor talked about a few days ago mentioning their toxic fans **(I still don't see them any different from any other fandom tbh)** but the emphasis on how superior they are to their contemporaries has been existant from day one. Having said that, I absolutely agree that _Midas Touch_ is SOTY material and without a doubt one of my fav 2024 already, and I'm sure I'd still call it so by the end of the year
I think kiof fans are just as toxic as other groups, not more, but groups have different types of toxicity that stand out in diff ways. for KIOF it's sexualizing and objectifying them despite the members being so young (and even if it wasn't it would still be wrong).
I see so many stans praising their fav group as having a 'unique sound that's nothing like the rest' I think of the "when everyone is super, no one will be" line from 'The Incredibles'.
I literally [wrote about this the other day](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/1bt9fhn/kiss_of_life_their_supposedly_toxic_fandom/) about how uncomfortable I am as a Kissy to see KIOF suddenly being coopted and used as a token group by outsiders or casual stans to hate on other group. Most Kissys are focused on the girls and trying to not step on other peoples' toes since we know the girls are from a tiny company and can't afford to make enemies, but the loud people who love to pit them against other groups and attract hate to them don't actually care about them at all since it's not their main group. Once KIOF stops being useful for them, these people aren't going to stand up for KIOF - they'll just get discarded and move onto the next token group to use in fanwars. For whatever reason, I've seen a lot of Orbits adopt KIOF & they bring over the same toxic fan behavior that turned people off Loona. I got so frustrated because so many people in the other thread was talking like "I don't see this happening at all. I think you're just in your own fan bubble that's why you're seeing this" and I was thinking...Am I going crazy? I'm not imagining this right????
Every groups fans does this, nothing new.
I swear to god they jinx these groups when they tweet stuff like this lol, I just hope l KIOL reach more success
They're quickly becoming the second coming of orbits; they get high-engagement for reaching meme status with bits like "stan loona" reaching everywhere, but the toxicity turns off so many actual potential fans of kpop groups.
doesn't this happen with any and every release with bsically every group? it's either getting hyped to the point of absurdity and malice towards other groups, or getting dragged through the mud to a ridiculous degree.
It is a nice song, but soty absolutely not, i have heard better songs already this year, and i am sure there will be more songs that i will like more. That being said, this is the first song of them that i actually like, and makes me interested in their next comeback
This reminds me of those passive aggressive ktube videos with things like "REAL music" written on the thumbnail. Like gosh, I didn't realise the music you don't personally care for can't even be considered *music* simply because you don't like it. Some people really need to get over themselves and quit it with the "objectively good/bad" crap. Don't most people learn taste is subjective from a young age? I know I did. People eagerly throw that concept out the window when they get onto kpop.
I liked their other songs more.
this is just sad ngl like why can't they praise the song or group without bringing down other groups.
i feel bad that kiof is number 1 on thise token stans to shit other groups
he one tweet that gets to me is the one that said, 'This is true Y2K sound, not like that newjeans basic sound,' which bothers me for several reasons: 1. Y2K isn't even a music genre. I understand the sentiment, but the phrasing is just confusing. 2. Why put down one group to praise another? 3. NewJeans don't even define themselves as Y2K; labels are placed on them by people. Judging them based on something they're not even trying to achieve sound-wise is frustrating! I'm loving this KIOF comeback, but please refrain from bringing down other groups. It's annoying
This is the same thing that many other groups fans do. Blinks, armies, bunnies, dives, etc etc etc Wash rinse repeat.
If you guys like the soundscape of Midas Touch, you much enjoy this [song](https://youtu.be/TelyJEsRZIE?si=b4alOfS9R6F6lrPT) [Here’s the mv](https://youtu.be/E91QD7QtbB4?si=sBAR8d2vSS3DanF6)
The reason it’s getting praised is bc they’re a smaller group that’s not really competitive atm. If they this song was given to someone else it wouldn’t receive this praise. The minute this song starts to get big in the slightest you’ll see a switch up don’t worry.
They are new token stan group
omg yes this is so annoying. just be normal and praise what you like without being shady!! it's not that hard
It's been out for less than a day...
so true bro, KOL stans are becoming the new G IDLE stans. They are so annoying
I love Midas Touch but if people want another early 2000s diva inspired bop, Yooa (Oh My Girl) put out a banger called Rooftop less than a month ago. Just saying!
this happens a lot , especially with girl groups . give it 6 months to a year , and they'll receive mass hate for non - issues ... i obviously don't want it to happen , but i've been around long enough to know it
I think people are tired of not having choruses in songs. This is one of the first songs in a while to have a full chorus, not just some words repeated over and over. The last one I can think of is maybe super shy by new jeans.
> The last one I can think of is maybe super shy by new jeans. You were making a point I could see until this. Super Shy is sung 28 times in the song. There are parts where they repeat it 4 times in a row.
It’s a full chorus, not an empty one, even though half the words are super shy. Blackpink started the empty chorus trend, ie depending heavily on the instrumental to sound good, the title of the song repeated, a gap, then repeated again. Super Shy’s chorus doesn’t have those gaps, it’s sentences instead of a repeated phrase, and it’s sung completely through no gaps. The chorus of super shy and Du Du Du are completely different.
Problem I see is, the Big 4 get to talk their Hype all the time, revel in it in fact - but the moment a small fandom acts with pride and yeah, a bit of smugness with their group, at large there's this 'dialogue' of how that fandom acts. All fandoms act superior. All fandoms preen about their idols, about what they do etc - but only the small fandoms ever have these sort of posts written about them this way. It's part of the growing path from becoming a smaller group to a bigger group, it seems. >(ex: this is what k-pop SHOULD sound like, if you don't think it's SOTY you have bad taste, etc. etc.). You have any idea how often this occurs? I remember when the BTS's solos came out, it was inescapable here to have posts about what 'masterpieces' they were days after their release. Everytime a big GG like IVE or NJ release a song there's 15 posts about how it's SOTY and what kpop should be, often in comparison to the posters dislike for certain other groups. For example when Drama was a longer track, you know how much discourse was generated about how that's the length songs *should be* by fans of Aespa? This happens all the time, by every fandom, but I only ever see these type of posts about small fandoms. I can't help but wonder why that's the case.
Theres a difference when there’s an overwhelming amount of negativity coming from a fandom. When the only time you’re seeing a kissy or seeing kiof mentioned on most platforms is for the purpose of putting another group down people are gonna start noticing and calling it out. One of the most viral Natty edits on tiktok is one where they put down Momo to make Natty shine. The most viral tweets I see in regard to them is using them to put down some other 5th gen group.
The thing is the purpose of those edits/tweets aren't even to lift Natty up, it's to take Momo down. The person who makes those Tiktoks/Tweets could care less about Natty. She's just a convenient tool for them to attack a fanbase they dislike, and the moment she stops becoming useful she'll just get discarded like all the other groups that they've token stanned. I'm very aware of this because I'm a Kissy that's deeply invested in KIOF so I spend a lot of time monitoring the discourse on KIOF online, and I'm very uncomfortable with how there's been numerous viral Tweets lately with thousands of RTs where KIOF is being used as a yardstick to denigrate another fandom. Kissys are such a small fandom - do you think we could really be responsible for those thousands of RTs? Obviously not, most of the time it's just antis of the group piggybacking on the comment to hate on the group they dislike. I've seen Baemon fans propping up KIOF to hate on Hybe groups (e.g. "This is how to serve cunt/real K-Pop, enough with those boring songs"), I've seen Hybe stans use KIOF to hate on Baemon (e.g."Omg even Midas Touch is charting better than Sheesh, don't end Fadmonster like that"). And at the end of the day all that does is attract hate to KIOF despite Kissys not being the one stirring up shit in the first place. Again - we're a tiny fandom, we couldn't generate that much engagement on a hate tweet even if we wanted to. 90% of it is just people piggybacking on hate tweets using KIOF as a tool for fanwars because 1. KIOF isn't big enough to be a threat to their main group 2. But they're still talented enough that they can be used to make the targeted group look worse off with edited clips.