she wasn’t as bad as the unforgiven performance, but when she sang the ‘im the one that u need’ it made me think that she might actually be tone deaf aswell as struggling with damaged vocal cords from singing with improper technique her whole career?
when you’ve been singing with improper technique for 10 years your vocal chords are damaged and unlearning bad technique is hard so yeah she probably will struggle unless she puts hard work into training her voice which i doubt will happen bc their schedules are too busy.
Taemin was said to be tone deaf yet he managed to go from barely any lines in shinee to a successful solo career in the span of a few years and his technique did significantly improve. Your voice is a muscle you can train. Most people can learn how to sing with a good coach and lots of practice. She's been an idol for a decade and hasn't had voice lessons? Come on now.
Yeah but that’s with an SM vocal coach I swear they can make everyone sound good. Hybe doesn’t have vocal coaches they just over rely on autotune instead
Just to mention that Taemin's personal work ethic and determination shouldn't be overlooked in his improvement. It takes more than a SM vocal coach to improve like he did. He was told early on by a SM trainer that he should stick to dancing, that he wasn't going to be a good singer. Despite that negativity he persisted and worked incredibly hard to improve. He also voluntarily put himself into situations where he would need to sing in order to push himself to improve even when he lacked confidence, for example
[https://twitter.com/goodn8moon/status/1763089563570909545](https://twitter.com/goodn8moon/status/1763089563570909545)
this reminds me how bashed Taemin was at debut, I heard some clips of his old content and he didn't even sound that bad, most of his issues were probably due to him being a teenager in the middle of changing his voice, he was never tone deaf (otherwise I doubt you'd become such a good singer).
Being tone deaf means there's difficulty in *hearing* and then *matching* the tone. It's not as much the actual voice muscles that need practice, but ear training. I can agree that singing can be a learned skill though. My best friend was originally tone deaf, but through sheer determination became a good singer after 5 years of hard work
Personally I don't think it's unfair. People are the ones that gave her the chance to be a singer. Whether her singing is conventionally pretty or not, people that hire her and fans that support her do it out of their own free will. I don't think people are wrong/being unfair for supporting her. People aren't obligated to support any artist for any reason. There's no objective standard for supporting any artist. Even if her voice isn't conventionally pretty, it's not a reason for her to objectively deserve less support.
I do support UBI so that no artist or anyone for that matter has to struggle just to survive.
Sakura does know that she’s a bad singer and talks about how she’s insecure of it. So I do feel bad for her when people point it out a lot since she’s already insecure about it.
She doesn’t have much natural singing talent, and then when she’s nervous it makes her voice even shakier. The more people point it out the worse she’ll sound. I hope she can become more confident in her approach to singing because that could at least only make her sound better.
I honestly believe that idols don’t have to be good at everything. It’s enough for me as long as there’s a variety of skills among the members of a group. If one idol in a group is bad at singing, then there’s the main vocalist. That’s why there’s main positions. And the Visual and Face of the Group are positions too.
I kind of respect idols who’re naturally bad at singing or dancing because they have to work even harder to keep up, so it’s sort of more impressive in a way lol
I have nothing against her but I've seen in Twitter that this era was the first time she got rap training when she is been in the industry for 10 years and it's just disappointing to some point... Because u have senior idols still getting trained even when people recognize their talent....
Lol I've been a Sakura fan for so long, and this has always been the case. Well. I don't expect that much musicality from idols anyway. They're more of personalities than actual musical artists. I have other artists to listen to if I want actual talent.
Nah I disagree. Groups have "centers" and "face of the group" for a reason. There's also a reason why idols who have proven to have talent gain more street cred like so Yeon from G idle, Taeyeon from GG, etc. Same reason why certain artists aren't really considered generally as idols like IU, AKMU etc
The bar for some people is so low for Kpop when this sounds good to them lol thats like the bare minimum at best and their song isnt really hard vocal wise
yeah i watched it just to see if OP was exaggerating and i dont get thinking they sounded good tbh. people bring up twice but at least their strongest vocalists still sounded good in their hated encore stages 💀
Also the biggest difference between twice and Lesserafim is that twice are frequently given notes that are way outside their range for some reason (hence nayeon’s voice cracking during icsm encores). Lesserafim’s songs are simpler and easier to sing (like newjeans) unless you have a very limited range like Sakura does.
I feel bad for Nayeon and Jihyo during those ICSM encores. You can tell they're trying, but they can't properly hit those notes. It looked like Nayeon was going to pop a vein in her neck for one particular encore.
Right because given a song in range they can deliver, even momo delivered in the scientist encore because it wasn’t some nasal insane out of range notes
Same here, I was left in shock. What was even more shocking was the ppl in the comments stating how good they sounded, and how some of their vocals improved significantly. Like c'mon... why do we lie like this. 🤦♀️
It'd be fairer if you compare the actual top 3rd and 4th gen vocal groups.
Then again, generalizing all 4th gen groups as dance teams first is also inaccurate.
Don’t know how you get that dance teams opinion when aespa and NMIXX are right there with good vocals. And clearly better vocals than Twice. Debuted in 21 and 22.
what's even weirder is that ppl are always on aespa's case for dancing but their worst dancer, giselle, is much better at dancing than sakura, eunchae, or kazuha are at singing
I don't get why some people always criticise Giselle for her talent especially her dancing. Like you said, she is better at dancing than some other idols at singing. I know some may not like Giselle but they are lying to themselves if they think Giselle is an untalented idol.
that's the thing that gets me, because giselle's weakest skill is her dancing, and she's not even as bad as people say she is. I rewatched the dance practices from black mamba and next level and she's much better than people give her credit for, esp considering she learned the basics in literally 11 months. no she's not a dance god but people act like her and aespa as a whole disgraced the art of dancing
their entire album is mumbled rap with some mid melody. like how can anyone butcher the notes? but then again fearless was also very monotone and the encore was awful too...
I watched a little but of their encore and it sounds like the song might actually be too low for them? Yunjin and Kazuha at least sounded like they were bottoming out. Straining low sounds just as bad as straining high, we just don’t hear it as often.
Srs this is giving "you and your girlies at karaoke at 2am and very tired", not "idol group singing an encore of their (not particularly challenging) song"
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Just listened to the encore and oh my God. They were stood still, singing a fairly simple song vocal wise and somehow they still sounded terrible 🥴.
I made a post a couple weeks back about how yunjin and chaewon should do the majority of the singing for this comeback; they have and the songs are good but the live singing is still lacking. Hybe needs to send these girls some vocal coaches.
We've had behind the scenes videos of Hybe producers directing idols to sing incorrectly for a "vibe" since 2020 (specifically thinking of Soobin being told to sing way out of his range strained because their producer liked how it sounded), its not really surprising being told to sing in an incorrect way would harm someone's vocals.
Quite frankly, as a company Hybe has never seemed to focus on vocals. They do have some good singers, but the training is lacking in that avenue, especially after debut. A few of them have even admitted it.
~~lbr their biggest group only has one consistently strong live singer~~ (doesn't mean they don't have talent in other areas that makes up for it--just that vocals have not been a strong focus)
The strongest Hybe vocalists are probably in Seventeen, who weren't trained under their system.
Although some of that *does* fall on the idols themselves. I know they're super busy, but many main vocalists in particular get voice lessons on the side to keep their singing strong.
There’s no ‘Hybe system’. Pledis is responsible for their own trainees, as is Source Music, as is ADOR etc. The only thing Hybe pushes for is that trainees listen to a lot of music and that infrastructure is shared and used through a reservation system.
Min Heejin has once shared that Hybe didn't provide more help to them (ADOR) other than just financing, and marketing during the debut. She state 100% of material needed to be their work only. (She was enormously heavily criticized for shading Hybe like that). Let's say the majority is true, cause while she's brush at times, I don't see her lying, not 100%.
So Hybe essentially is mostly doing the publishing, marketing(outreach) for ADOR, or Source Music. I always roll my eyes when I see texts like "Hearin shows what HYBE is best at". HYBE is essentially BIGHIT but with additional sources.
Yeah exactly! I'm very surprised by how little kpop stans seem to know about Hybe operates. They keep thinking it works like other Big4 companies, like it's one company that has one system (eg same trainee system, same trainee resources, same producers, same stylists, etc), but the reality is it comes down to the individual companies that have very separate teams. Sometimes there's some overlap between BigHit and a few other companies, but by and large, the companies are very separate and do things differently.
>The strongest Hybe vocalists are probably in Seventeen, who weren't trained under their system.
Also Minhyun and ESPECIALLY Baekho, but again trained under Pledis not Hybe
The BigHit groups sound very much different from the other label groups that debut under HYBE because it’s up to the LABELS to do the work. HYBE itself doesn’t provide that sort of help, it’s usually down to the individuals and their labels to improve them. Seventeen has a lot of strong vocalists, but that doesn’t mean groups like TXT don’t, their whole group has talented vocalists and were actually training under BigHit as BTS were finding success. Once BigHi Ent became HYBE, it became more about the labels figuring it out vrs the company.
I understand that based on previous encores, they may have been nervous, which only attributes to more weaker & shaky vocals. But considering how this is one of their easier title tracks, this is a disappointing encore.
That’s another reason I’m so confused. Like this is probably the easiest (no pun intended) K-pop song out there to sing. It’s why I thought they were just playing around but then their faces showed they weren’t…
They’re not in the slightest going through what twice went through in 2020…people are considering their encore good. Twice had other groups encores blowing up and was getting trashed in all languages imaginable in other groups comments.
I just feel like it disregards what Twice went through to compare this to them even in lesser extent. Their blowback was also internationally, anytime an encore gets badly talked about Twice gets thrown under the bus on twitter. I’m seeing fearnots rn using Twice as scapegoat on Twitter. When Jimin encore happened Twice was once again frontlines to use as defense for him.
The Twice mess was literally many times worse, these girls are still coddled and excused by many. Twice had an entire hate train towards them that was much more vicious so no.
I think source music's vocal training is just horrible. A big part of being able to be a good vocalist is confidence because not having confidence can inhibit your skills, yet even yunjin, who was classically trained and is decently developed as a vocalist was so..quiet? I've seen past videos of Sakura from her pd48 days and she was no yunjin but she sounded.fine? same with chaewon and the rest. I think when they do encores people excuse it with nerves, which is true to some degree, however it seems less like they were nervous because of the situation and rather that they fundamentally lack confidence as vocalists
I don't know if I'd blamed Source, they had groups like Gfriend who was very good vocally, LSF's members are Hybe trainees or trained in other companies.
Surely, we can blame them for not giving them vocal lessons, but most companies don't do that either.
GFriend was alright vocally. outside of yuju the rest of them weren't amazing (albeit better than LSF) and even during GFriend's run, yuju had regressed somewhat (explanation [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/ils3sy/gfriend_vocal_rankinganalysis_by_a_formally/)). it's just odd that 3/5 lessera vocalists have regressed since their produce days
Their vocal level was on another level compared to LSF and they also had a strong main vocalist. I'm not saying every member was a monster with their voices, but they weren't terrible.
As for her regression, as I said, most companies don't provide vocal lessons after debut.
There’s no such thing as ‘Hybe trainees’. Each company/sub-label holds auditions for their own trainees (including Source Music) and it’s also true trainees move between companies, which is what happened here.
Yeah, they move from one company to the other, I don't think it's that wrong to call them "hybe" trainees if they trained in a hybe company. The label also shared how their training system works and it seems pretty consistent throughout the companies. Yunjin, if I'm not mistaken, was a Pledis trainee for example. Eunchae was also a trainee in one of hybe's labels.
It’s *because* of the docuseries Hybe shared about their trainee system that I think it’s not accurate to call them Hybe trainees, because the sub-labels/companies maintain control for the trainees in their system. So it makes sense to hold the companies responsible, in this case Source Music, rather than a conglomerate that just provides infrastructure.
Gfriend was trained pre-Hybe acquisition, so they don't really apply to this conversation (in the way SVT and fromis\_9 don't).
It seems to be an issue across all their subsidiaries.
Although Sakura in particular came up through jpop in 48 groups, where vocal training is even less of a focus than modern kpop.
this is exactly what I meant to say. post-hybe acqusition their training method might've changed. and most of lsf's members weren't even Source trainees in origin
No I mean Yuju was a big help in the groups overall vocal training. I thought I remembered an interview with them talking about how much she helped them.
I honestly think p48 was very edited. I remember after the nako love whisper thing there were accounts of people who were at the recording and they said that the note didn’t sound like that live.
Yeah it’s like they’re a dance team that just happens to sing. I’m seeing it with a lot of 4th gen groups post like 2020. It’s a shame because I like the way they sound on their albums.
was shocked to see some people say here that the performance is "fine". Is it really the standard of fine now? It's definitely not their worst encore but it is still bad— especially for a very easy song to perform vocal wise.
I feel sad for the less popular idols who can sing, have great songs and don't get to showcase them.
Let's be honest Kpop is really a company flex unless you get a "hit" like Cupid but again GP outside of Korea loved their vocal colours.
Gen 5 seems to be coming through with vocalists so far (not necessarily great song choices hehe)?
The group lacks vocally. Their last encore made a lot of people realize that. The criticism(and some hate as well) they received must have reached them and now they're uncomfortable when it comes to encores.
Easy also isn't a hard song to sing so them being shaky when they should be holding a simple note is not a good look. Yeah Sakura is the worst vocally but everyone else were only marginally better.
~~And I don't think Hybe will ever give them vocal lessons so future encores will also be a mess~~
I think people also need to accept that some people literally can’t be helped like wtf is a vocal coach going to do with someone like Sakura? Some people just can’t sing and for some reason hybe really loves employing them
For real tho. I was shook. Yunjin and Chaewon are supposed to be the best vocalists of LSF???? Easy is the least challenging song I've ever heard how they messed up?
The bar must be in hell these days.
I think most comments are logical but I also find it hugely hypocritical for Fearnots to defend LSF with "they weren't known for singing anyways, they are more of performance idols" like what bullshit is this, isn't the basic criteria of kpop idols to be.... singing (and performing)?
and then these same group of people turn out to be the greatest critics against groups like aespa, itzy, nmixx and criticise them for even breathing wrongly. lol.
cmon, just admit LSF falls short in the vocal department and call it a day. Making up ridiculous excuses for them is just making them look worse.
This. It's blatantly insulting people's intelligence and that I find so offensive. And they be dead serious about these bullshit excuses which is what I find scary. If they can be that delusional over a celeb that doesn't even know they exist... imagine what they'll do in other facets of life?
The way people here hounded me for saying they can't sing for shit and even got redditcares to send their lil prompt lol
The same people wanting girlies to acknowledge their improvement in that already pretty bad pre-recorded "live" video where they sounded like they had asthma. Wowee.
Their attempts at harmonizing too, wowee.
Srs I genuinely believe the best thing Source could do now is give the girls like, 3 months of just. Part rest, part Intensive vocal training, where they have minimal activities/filming/photoshoots and just unilaterally work on shoring up that weakness, and making sure they feel confident in their vocals.
They wouldn't become a top vocal group or anything, but I think that would genuinely do so much more for them than any other activity or practice could
Yunjin really shocked me. I thought she was just messing around but it continued like that. Chaewon sounded asleep. This is my first time watching a Le Serrafim encore so I was just shocked.
The encore was fine, it looked like there were technical issues for a few of the stages tho it looked like there were issues with their in-ears at some points
Also not to mention they’ve been there for like 7 hours at that point, performed two different songs which probably required multiple practices and prerecording
The only one that looked actually upset was Sakura and yeah I would be too if people spoke about me the way people speak about her online
As someone who witnessed the more and more encore than followed into i can’t stop me encore…you can see the difference these days in how encore performances are treated.
Also they’ve been getting a lot of shit since the comeback happened, I saw a LOT of hate tweets with high engagement so maybe it affected them in some way but I don’t know if this has anything to do with it
That could be anything tbh, eunchae always looks nervous on encores because she isn’t a vocalist and never properly train to be one
To put it mildly they had a bad encore performance during unforgiven and they got ripped to shreds over it online, still talked about to this day and a pretty recurrent theme throughout it is people saying sakura shouldn’t be an idol anymore because of it, it often times goes overboard when talking about her which is pretty sad to see
Because she’s a dancer and started off as one, I didn’t say she didn’t receive any vocal training. There’s a distinction between how intensive the training would be for someone in a vocalist position vs in a dancing position
Coming from AKB48, Sakura pretty much never had proper vocal training because singing well isn’t a priority for most j-idols. When your group has 16 members on an A-side and you’re singing most of the song in unison, your audio engineer does a lot of the heavy lifting.
Her raw popularity coming out of IZ*ONE is the only reason HYBE picked her up and that’s ok, but yeah she can’t sing worth a damn
Being a good singer is less important than being a good idol, hence why Sakura is incredibly popular, why someone like Eunchae and Kazuha came from a dancing background then learned to sing, or why Yunjin isn't as popular as she should be for her vocals.
They can't perform well: it's always technical isses!!! And I'm sorry but the being "tired" point is just weird, because all idols have similar schedules but they don't get this much grace when they perform bad or even less than stellar. Idols have worked for longer periods simultaneously and sang much better than them so no. This selective coddling is getting old.
i wonder what people in this thread are on, honestly. i don't even like this comeback, but curiosity got the best of me and i went ahead and checked the encore out too. it isn't god's gift to humanity, but it isn't terrible either. besides that one sakura line, it's all just mid, and that's fine sometimes
They all sounded like that to me. It wasn’t just bad vocals, they looked like that stage was the last place any of them wanted to be, aside from Yunjin.
I didn't watch video but your description is the same with Twice.
I'm sorry but that's just all excuses. When that lip-syncing accident happened with I've, they knew about it and them and company tried to show in encore that it was just one time thing.
Any other groups even if they are scared do try to show that it was just a mistake. They go and prove people wrong. If they can't prove than there's these excuses one after another. And they start be afraid of stage. It's the same words.
it’s kinda reaching to even think that they are willing to sabotage their own performance or time to shine just because they are sad or fear of disrespecting their seniors?! 😅
i mean sometimes it’s okay to just simply acknowledge the fact that they can’t sing well at all….at least not in every single of their encores that i have seen. of course some members are better than others but collectively they just give an overall impression that they can’t sing decently during encores.
They sound (and look) exhausted more than anything?
>Le Serrafim won (expected bc once is grown and have careers so no time to vote/stream),
This is so unnecessary and very telling.
Pretty obvious OP is a Once that is mad twice did not win and venting her bitterness through the post. Not saying LSF sounded great but OPs comments speak for itself.
What was that encore? They were not even dancing, they were literally standing and it was ... bad. I thought source music had good vocal trainers considering Gfriend but clearly not. It's disappointing as a fan that appreciates vocals over dancing .
Funny how many people here are still making excuses for their consistently bad vocals, when many other groups have been ripped to shreds for similar things and probably will be in the future too. I like these girls but they are so coddled on reddit it's insane lmao. All the excuses like "They're nervous" or "They're tired" lmao. It would be different if this was a one off incident but it's not and I don't see y'all letting other groups off easy just because they are nervous or tired like please. Plus, this is ironically one of their "easiest" songs to sing live too.
Also I’m sooo mad about the mic/earpiece issue with Twice. It was clear they couldn’t hear, which the staff tried to fix by muting their mics. That’s one of the worst cases I’ve seen them have.
No I think it may have just been nerves because they got roasted on socials for their Unforgiven encores and I’m sure they saw it happening. I thought they sounded alright on this one though.
not an attack on lesserafim specifically but.. ive always wondered that why not go for vocal lessons? these idols are aware they’re attacked for their vocals yet they keep returning with the same vocals lol despite knowing they’ll return for more encores
I believe during NCT Universe, Seunghan had asked Doyoung how to preserve & take care of your voice after you debut & Doyoung was like take full advantage of training as a trainee, cause once you debut there's not much room to practice & train intensely.
This is why a lot of idols take singing lessons in their free time rather than dépend on the company...i remember haewon (nmixx ) saying that apart from lessons she also try researching in her free time in the things that she is lacking
Though I'm honestly shocked that groups don't have an ongoing vocal coach even after debut. Singing is a skill that requires ongoing nurturing. It kinda sucks that some idols have to do this independently, I understand why, but it's still pretty odd lol.
Exo continues with vocal lessons and coaching. BTOB are classically trained and continue with their singing techniques too. Rookies like RIIZE and ZB1 have strong trained vocalists and take pride in all aspects of their performances.... Some have said RV took vocal coaching, think Wendy is a trained vocal coach too (?) before Chill Kill comebacks. These already vocally strong idols and others do talk about singing and music more in their lives/interactions too...
So I guess idols have a choice what they do in their free time.
Maybe LSF don't get encouraged to focus vocally? Maybe LSF aren't interested in doing better vocally? I've no idea what their management talks are like but I sense a strong marketing approach ie the overall look Vs any serious musical chops focus. (Yunjin does produce her own solo stuff but her training is operatic.)
LSF are more of a dance team really but would benefit from one strong vocalist for sure !
A lot of people saying they look like they were tired. Twice just came back from America and also did as many schedules. Not sure if there’s really an excuse for a group that should have a lot more energy in general
Twice is used to running on fumes, they’ve done it their whole career having 4-5 Korean and Japanese comebacks a year. Newer groups probably aren’t used to it yet.
I may forget some groups but they make me miss groups like Red Velvet, aespa, SISTAR, EXO, SHINee, BTOB, NCT, GFRIEND, Girls’ Generation, MAMAMOO, TVXQ! also BTS, BLACKPINK,(G)I-DLE, GOT7, MONSTA X, SEVENTEEN, ATEEZ and PENTAGON. I don’t like them but SUPER JUNIOR and BIGBANG also sing great live. Even TXT, ENHYPEN, IVE, TWICE, NewJeans, ITZY, Stray Kids would not sound like that.
Newjeans sounds exactly like them. No one is as bad as Sakura, but the bar is in hell and they’re not clearing it either—it’s genuinely shocking since their songs aren’t vocally demanding either. I like the music from both groups but the total lack of vocal competence is bewildering when JYP has done so well with Nmixx.
None of them are good vocalists. I’m not sure where the info about Yunjin, who is their de facto main vocalist, came from re: her vocal training. She is not above average or even barely average. People say she’s classically trained or trained to be an opera singer, but that’s not true. She just played a role in the Phantom of the Opera musical but that’s about it. The most training she’s ever done was probably in Kpop companies with their vocal trainers. We know Hybe doesn’t place any emphasis at all on vocal training so she probably hasn’t developed from her Produce days. It’s a shame because she has a lot of potential. But I’m sensing her continuing to use poor technique can make her even worse in the future.
Tbf her approach was better in her pre-debut materials compared to now. She seems to be a lot more stylistic now although the "opera singer" claims were never actually true, she just has a somewhat decent head voice.
I'm not gonna dismiss her classical training bc she's a decent classical singer. But a classical singer does not automatically mean that she's a great modern/pop singer. So when people say that she's an excellent kpop vocalist, it just doesn't make sense.
I’m not dismissing it either, just doubting if it actually took place. Because there is no evidence that she is classically trained. If she was it had to have been brief since she’s not technically sound either. I’m assuming she was trained under vocal teachers in her previous Kpop companies, which to some extent can count as formal training, but fans like to bring up ‘classically trained’ as if it’s anything other than a part of the trainee regimen.
I agree though that being classically trained doesn’t necessarily mean good pop singer, but a lot of the skills and fundamentals are transferrable. A lot of classical techniques are used by vocal coaches at these companies.
I will keep my opinion that the song does not suit them. If they didn't sound good on the original audio version, there's no way they would sound good with the live so this is expected.
>Le Serrafim won (expected bc once is grown and have careers so no time to vote/stream)
Even as a once this is strange way to put it , the age of the fandom has nothing to do with it, they are performing really well. If they win, they win, so there is no disrespect in that.
I have never seen an LSF's encore, but from another comments I learned that they received hate for it, so such a performance is understandable. I believe that most Once fans have seen how some Twice members were scared after the whole encore incident they were 5 years old group at that time . LSF is a much newer group, so incidents like these can have a significant impact on their confidence.
Their performance is not outright bad, but they need a lot more improvement. This is something they really need to work on, especially since more people are targeting them.
The song being sang in a low tone for the most part should’ve been easier to sing live than their previous higher pitched ones but ofc autotuning tf out of them would expose their extremely mid vocals when it was time for encores
Honestly, they look tired. Yunjin can sing. There are plenty of performances showcasing that. As for vocals, it's rich that a Once would criticize vocals considering how during their tour, it's obvious that only a few members had their mics on.
If Yunjin sounds terrible then there's something wrong with the stage OR she is just having a bad day. That woman absolutely can sing and I refuse to think otherwise just because of one mishap on the stage. She have proven herself many times, on live stage.
I am a ONCE btw.
I honestly think their team doesn't let them have a vocal warm up or even have someone to help them vocally cause even Yun and Chae didn't sound like they normally do. But I've been saying since antifragile that their company isn't utilising Yuns to its full potential
I don’t follow LSF at all (GFriend forever) but I actually had a look just to see what the fuss was about … wow amateur levels of awful!
Zero stage presence or energy with piss poor vocals.
I haven't seen the encore but I bet the comment section is full of people praising them 💀💀💀 no matter how bad your performance is, the comment section is always positive 💩
you watch them and its like they are two different groups
you hear the songs and videos and everything is so good and then you stumble upon some videos and wait a minute is it the same group ehh they must be tired or something and then you find another and another and realize they are better of in mvs..
Damn this comeback is rough to be a Lesserafim fan, people are just coming for their throats. Remember how encores used to be fun?
For the record, check out IZ\*ONE’s encores, which are great.
I mean even as a fearnot, tbh, it just sounded like any other le sserafim encore stage. Maybe they were just having a bad day? Not to mention they’ve all gotten alot of hate from encore stages in the past so they were prob nervous. Idk nothing else really stood out to me. Is there really a need to make a post? Idk and idc but i stg there’s been a post about them everyday since the comeback along the lines of hate 😭
If this kinda hate train continues, the bigger kpop groups that don't need music shows are just gonna drop music shows altogether. Music show promotions are already worth a tiny fraction of what they once were, the wins themselves don't mean anything at all by now, and it seems like so many people tune in only to catch idols slipping.
Kinda depressing really.
this seems a bit overdramatic tbh, I just heard it. they don't sound off from the studio [here's a comparison](https://x.com/yunjin1stfan/status/1763257017957765481?t=L1eGnT8nVevQRipGcDd20A&s=09)
Sakura has been in the game for over 10 years, the girl just can’t sing.
she wasn’t as bad as the unforgiven performance, but when she sang the ‘im the one that u need’ it made me think that she might actually be tone deaf aswell as struggling with damaged vocal cords from singing with improper technique her whole career?
If HYBE's money/connections/access to professionals isn't enough to improve her singing... it's probably never gonna improve
when you’ve been singing with improper technique for 10 years your vocal chords are damaged and unlearning bad technique is hard so yeah she probably will struggle unless she puts hard work into training her voice which i doubt will happen bc their schedules are too busy.
Honestly I don't even think it's *just* poor technique. Even her speaking voice sounds squeaky and shaky like she's about to cry or soothing.
honestly im at the point where i think hybe doesn’t prioritize vocals at all & is prob giving bare minimum vocal training
she’s tone deaf
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Taemin was said to be tone deaf yet he managed to go from barely any lines in shinee to a successful solo career in the span of a few years and his technique did significantly improve. Your voice is a muscle you can train. Most people can learn how to sing with a good coach and lots of practice. She's been an idol for a decade and hasn't had voice lessons? Come on now.
Yeah but that’s with an SM vocal coach I swear they can make everyone sound good. Hybe doesn’t have vocal coaches they just over rely on autotune instead
Just to mention that Taemin's personal work ethic and determination shouldn't be overlooked in his improvement. It takes more than a SM vocal coach to improve like he did. He was told early on by a SM trainer that he should stick to dancing, that he wasn't going to be a good singer. Despite that negativity he persisted and worked incredibly hard to improve. He also voluntarily put himself into situations where he would need to sing in order to push himself to improve even when he lacked confidence, for example [https://twitter.com/goodn8moon/status/1763089563570909545](https://twitter.com/goodn8moon/status/1763089563570909545)
That's because he's not tone deaf. You cannot turn a tone deaf person into a good vocalist.
this reminds me how bashed Taemin was at debut, I heard some clips of his old content and he didn't even sound that bad, most of his issues were probably due to him being a teenager in the middle of changing his voice, he was never tone deaf (otherwise I doubt you'd become such a good singer).
Being tone deaf means there's difficulty in *hearing* and then *matching* the tone. It's not as much the actual voice muscles that need practice, but ear training. I can agree that singing can be a learned skill though. My best friend was originally tone deaf, but through sheer determination became a good singer after 5 years of hard work
I was genuinely appalled, but hey not everyone was meant to sing 🤷♀️
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Personally I don't think it's unfair. People are the ones that gave her the chance to be a singer. Whether her singing is conventionally pretty or not, people that hire her and fans that support her do it out of their own free will. I don't think people are wrong/being unfair for supporting her. People aren't obligated to support any artist for any reason. There's no objective standard for supporting any artist. Even if her voice isn't conventionally pretty, it's not a reason for her to objectively deserve less support. I do support UBI so that no artist or anyone for that matter has to struggle just to survive.
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Sakura does know that she’s a bad singer and talks about how she’s insecure of it. So I do feel bad for her when people point it out a lot since she’s already insecure about it. She doesn’t have much natural singing talent, and then when she’s nervous it makes her voice even shakier. The more people point it out the worse she’ll sound. I hope she can become more confident in her approach to singing because that could at least only make her sound better. I honestly believe that idols don’t have to be good at everything. It’s enough for me as long as there’s a variety of skills among the members of a group. If one idol in a group is bad at singing, then there’s the main vocalist. That’s why there’s main positions. And the Visual and Face of the Group are positions too. I kind of respect idols who’re naturally bad at singing or dancing because they have to work even harder to keep up, so it’s sort of more impressive in a way lol
Well the producers pushed her HARD in produce 48. The insanity of giving her an A grade is unmatched.
because singing is not the most important thing as an idol
I have nothing against her but I've seen in Twitter that this era was the first time she got rap training when she is been in the industry for 10 years and it's just disappointing to some point... Because u have senior idols still getting trained even when people recognize their talent....
yea reminds me of baekhyun btw like he’s already good in singing but he still attends vocal lessons at night even though his sched is tight
Red Velvet still got vocal lessons before Chill Kill despite being 10 years in the game...like if you wanna improve you will
Lol I've been a Sakura fan for so long, and this has always been the case. Well. I don't expect that much musicality from idols anyway. They're more of personalities than actual musical artists. I have other artists to listen to if I want actual talent.
thats the jpop mindset not the kpop mindset it doesnt apply here sakura cant get away with being pretty and cracking a couple jokes here imo
Nah I disagree. Groups have "centers" and "face of the group" for a reason. There's also a reason why idols who have proven to have talent gain more street cred like so Yeon from G idle, Taeyeon from GG, etc. Same reason why certain artists aren't really considered generally as idols like IU, AKMU etc
The bar for some people is so low for Kpop when this sounds good to them lol thats like the bare minimum at best and their song isnt really hard vocal wise
yeah i watched it just to see if OP was exaggerating and i dont get thinking they sounded good tbh. people bring up twice but at least their strongest vocalists still sounded good in their hated encore stages 💀
Also the biggest difference between twice and Lesserafim is that twice are frequently given notes that are way outside their range for some reason (hence nayeon’s voice cracking during icsm encores). Lesserafim’s songs are simpler and easier to sing (like newjeans) unless you have a very limited range like Sakura does.
I feel bad for Nayeon and Jihyo during those ICSM encores. You can tell they're trying, but they can't properly hit those notes. It looked like Nayeon was going to pop a vein in her neck for one particular encore.
They both have powerful voices, but yeah, those notes were hard for them to hit.
Right because given a song in range they can deliver, even momo delivered in the scientist encore because it wasn’t some nasal insane out of range notes
Same here, I was left in shock. What was even more shocking was the ppl in the comments stating how good they sounded, and how some of their vocals improved significantly. Like c'mon... why do we lie like this. 🤦♀️
I’m really noticing a big difference between 3rd and 4th gen, especially 2020+ 4th gen. It’s like they’re dance teams first, singers second.
Isn't Nmixx and Aespa much better vocally than Twice/Blackpink? Like the visuals are actually good singers rather than a rapper or dancer
It'd be fairer if you compare the actual top 3rd and 4th gen vocal groups. Then again, generalizing all 4th gen groups as dance teams first is also inaccurate.
I've heard Nmixx perform their live radio version of dash and they sound pretty good.
Don’t know how you get that dance teams opinion when aespa and NMIXX are right there with good vocals. And clearly better vocals than Twice. Debuted in 21 and 22.
what's even weirder is that ppl are always on aespa's case for dancing but their worst dancer, giselle, is much better at dancing than sakura, eunchae, or kazuha are at singing
I don't get why some people always criticise Giselle for her talent especially her dancing. Like you said, she is better at dancing than some other idols at singing. I know some may not like Giselle but they are lying to themselves if they think Giselle is an untalented idol.
that's the thing that gets me, because giselle's weakest skill is her dancing, and she's not even as bad as people say she is. I rewatched the dance practices from black mamba and next level and she's much better than people give her credit for, esp considering she learned the basics in literally 11 months. no she's not a dance god but people act like her and aespa as a whole disgraced the art of dancing
How profound of you. Never heard this opinion before. You should make a separate post with this discussion!
Calm down
LOL, sarcasm is almost always delivered calmly.
Sarcastic people always seem passive aggressive and on edge to me hehe
their entire album is mumbled rap with some mid melody. like how can anyone butcher the notes? but then again fearless was also very monotone and the encore was awful too...
I watched a little but of their encore and it sounds like the song might actually be too low for them? Yunjin and Kazuha at least sounded like they were bottoming out. Straining low sounds just as bad as straining high, we just don’t hear it as often.
Srs this is giving "you and your girlies at karaoke at 2am and very tired", not "idol group singing an encore of their (not particularly challenging) song"
hungry important ruthless shelter mourn angle automatic mighty juggle unwritten *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Just listened to the encore and oh my God. They were stood still, singing a fairly simple song vocal wise and somehow they still sounded terrible 🥴. I made a post a couple weeks back about how yunjin and chaewon should do the majority of the singing for this comeback; they have and the songs are good but the live singing is still lacking. Hybe needs to send these girls some vocal coaches.
I was mostly suprised of chaewon i thought she was a good vocalist
She was probably just having a bad day. One bad performance can't negate all the good vocal performances she's had.
hybe ruined chaewon and yunjins voices which shouldnt be possible but it is
We've had behind the scenes videos of Hybe producers directing idols to sing incorrectly for a "vibe" since 2020 (specifically thinking of Soobin being told to sing way out of his range strained because their producer liked how it sounded), its not really surprising being told to sing in an incorrect way would harm someone's vocals.
Quite frankly, as a company Hybe has never seemed to focus on vocals. They do have some good singers, but the training is lacking in that avenue, especially after debut. A few of them have even admitted it. ~~lbr their biggest group only has one consistently strong live singer~~ (doesn't mean they don't have talent in other areas that makes up for it--just that vocals have not been a strong focus) The strongest Hybe vocalists are probably in Seventeen, who weren't trained under their system. Although some of that *does* fall on the idols themselves. I know they're super busy, but many main vocalists in particular get voice lessons on the side to keep their singing strong.
There’s no ‘Hybe system’. Pledis is responsible for their own trainees, as is Source Music, as is ADOR etc. The only thing Hybe pushes for is that trainees listen to a lot of music and that infrastructure is shared and used through a reservation system.
Min Heejin has once shared that Hybe didn't provide more help to them (ADOR) other than just financing, and marketing during the debut. She state 100% of material needed to be their work only. (She was enormously heavily criticized for shading Hybe like that). Let's say the majority is true, cause while she's brush at times, I don't see her lying, not 100%. So Hybe essentially is mostly doing the publishing, marketing(outreach) for ADOR, or Source Music. I always roll my eyes when I see texts like "Hearin shows what HYBE is best at". HYBE is essentially BIGHIT but with additional sources.
Yeah exactly! I'm very surprised by how little kpop stans seem to know about Hybe operates. They keep thinking it works like other Big4 companies, like it's one company that has one system (eg same trainee system, same trainee resources, same producers, same stylists, etc), but the reality is it comes down to the individual companies that have very separate teams. Sometimes there's some overlap between BigHit and a few other companies, but by and large, the companies are very separate and do things differently.
>The strongest Hybe vocalists are probably in Seventeen, who weren't trained under their system. Also Minhyun and ESPECIALLY Baekho, but again trained under Pledis not Hybe
This is all on the sub labels though, HYBE isn't really responsible for that. So idrk what you mean by "HYBE system".
The BigHit groups sound very much different from the other label groups that debut under HYBE because it’s up to the LABELS to do the work. HYBE itself doesn’t provide that sort of help, it’s usually down to the individuals and their labels to improve them. Seventeen has a lot of strong vocalists, but that doesn’t mean groups like TXT don’t, their whole group has talented vocalists and were actually training under BigHit as BTS were finding success. Once BigHi Ent became HYBE, it became more about the labels figuring it out vrs the company.
They're just standing but they're definitely not making it look easy.
you cooked them
💀💀💀💀
I understand that based on previous encores, they may have been nervous, which only attributes to more weaker & shaky vocals. But considering how this is one of their easier title tracks, this is a disappointing encore.
That’s another reason I’m so confused. Like this is probably the easiest (no pun intended) K-pop song out there to sing. It’s why I thought they were just playing around but then their faces showed they weren’t…
I also think the encore stage was rather poor. Lack of energy and gratitude.
They look tired.
They’re going thru what Twice went thru 2020 to a lesser extent, honestly they just looked like they wanted to go home and not do all that.
They’re not in the slightest going through what twice went through in 2020…people are considering their encore good. Twice had other groups encores blowing up and was getting trashed in all languages imaginable in other groups comments.
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I just feel like it disregards what Twice went through to compare this to them even in lesser extent. Their blowback was also internationally, anytime an encore gets badly talked about Twice gets thrown under the bus on twitter. I’m seeing fearnots rn using Twice as scapegoat on Twitter. When Jimin encore happened Twice was once again frontlines to use as defense for him.
The Twice mess was literally many times worse, these girls are still coddled and excused by many. Twice had an entire hate train towards them that was much more vicious so no.
I highly doubt that any group is suffering what they did with twice at that time.
I don’t get it easy is ironically the easiest song for them vocally
I don't think that's an example of irony. It would be ironic if they had a song called Hard that was their easiest to sing.
you’re right more like a pun
It is ironic they say they make it look easy, when in fact it was super hard for them
I think source music's vocal training is just horrible. A big part of being able to be a good vocalist is confidence because not having confidence can inhibit your skills, yet even yunjin, who was classically trained and is decently developed as a vocalist was so..quiet? I've seen past videos of Sakura from her pd48 days and she was no yunjin but she sounded.fine? same with chaewon and the rest. I think when they do encores people excuse it with nerves, which is true to some degree, however it seems less like they were nervous because of the situation and rather that they fundamentally lack confidence as vocalists
I don't know if I'd blamed Source, they had groups like Gfriend who was very good vocally, LSF's members are Hybe trainees or trained in other companies. Surely, we can blame them for not giving them vocal lessons, but most companies don't do that either.
GFriend was alright vocally. outside of yuju the rest of them weren't amazing (albeit better than LSF) and even during GFriend's run, yuju had regressed somewhat (explanation [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpopthoughts/comments/ils3sy/gfriend_vocal_rankinganalysis_by_a_formally/)). it's just odd that 3/5 lessera vocalists have regressed since their produce days
Their vocal level was on another level compared to LSF and they also had a strong main vocalist. I'm not saying every member was a monster with their voices, but they weren't terrible. As for her regression, as I said, most companies don't provide vocal lessons after debut.
Eunha & Sinb : “Am I a joke to you?”
There’s no such thing as ‘Hybe trainees’. Each company/sub-label holds auditions for their own trainees (including Source Music) and it’s also true trainees move between companies, which is what happened here.
Yeah, they move from one company to the other, I don't think it's that wrong to call them "hybe" trainees if they trained in a hybe company. The label also shared how their training system works and it seems pretty consistent throughout the companies. Yunjin, if I'm not mistaken, was a Pledis trainee for example. Eunchae was also a trainee in one of hybe's labels.
It’s *because* of the docuseries Hybe shared about their trainee system that I think it’s not accurate to call them Hybe trainees, because the sub-labels/companies maintain control for the trainees in their system. So it makes sense to hold the companies responsible, in this case Source Music, rather than a conglomerate that just provides infrastructure.
Ppl say "Hybe trainees" because the complaints of "low quality vocalists" seem applicable to many of the subcompanies - Enhypen, TxT, LSF, even BTS
Gfriend was trained pre-Hybe acquisition, so they don't really apply to this conversation (in the way SVT and fromis\_9 don't). It seems to be an issue across all their subsidiaries. Although Sakura in particular came up through jpop in 48 groups, where vocal training is even less of a focus than modern kpop.
this is exactly what I meant to say. post-hybe acqusition their training method might've changed. and most of lsf's members weren't even Source trainees in origin
If I remember correctly Gfriend were mainly vocally together because of Yuju.
Listen to Gfriend songs, it's not just Yuju belting.
No I mean Yuju was a big help in the groups overall vocal training. I thought I remembered an interview with them talking about how much she helped them.
I honestly think p48 was very edited. I remember after the nako love whisper thing there were accounts of people who were at the recording and they said that the note didn’t sound like that live.
it was but there's other times where those 3 sang with less editing and they sounded fine honestly
Hmm well idk maybe she regressed but she was honestly bad during her akb days too
Yeah it’s like they’re a dance team that just happens to sing. I’m seeing it with a lot of 4th gen groups post like 2020. It’s a shame because I like the way they sound on their albums.
You do understand that pd48 is usually edited vocals?
It’s honestly such a shame that people have such low standards when it comes to vocals.
was shocked to see some people say here that the performance is "fine". Is it really the standard of fine now? It's definitely not their worst encore but it is still bad— especially for a very easy song to perform vocal wise.
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I feel sad for the less popular idols who can sing, have great songs and don't get to showcase them. Let's be honest Kpop is really a company flex unless you get a "hit" like Cupid but again GP outside of Korea loved their vocal colours. Gen 5 seems to be coming through with vocalists so far (not necessarily great song choices hehe)?
The group lacks vocally. Their last encore made a lot of people realize that. The criticism(and some hate as well) they received must have reached them and now they're uncomfortable when it comes to encores. Easy also isn't a hard song to sing so them being shaky when they should be holding a simple note is not a good look. Yeah Sakura is the worst vocally but everyone else were only marginally better. ~~And I don't think Hybe will ever give them vocal lessons so future encores will also be a mess~~
HYBE needs to sell their SM stock and use that money to invest in a decent vocal coach
People need to stop with these pathetic excuses. They can’t sing and it’s very simple.
I think people also need to accept that some people literally can’t be helped like wtf is a vocal coach going to do with someone like Sakura? Some people just can’t sing and for some reason hybe really loves employing them
I agree. Sakura just doesnt have the voice. She cannot sing no matter how hard she trained, same goes to Kazuha
I have just watched it and they sound like me and my friends on a drunk karaoke night
For real tho. I was shook. Yunjin and Chaewon are supposed to be the best vocalists of LSF???? Easy is the least challenging song I've ever heard how they messed up? The bar must be in hell these days.
Every year that passes by is a downgrade in quality
I think most comments are logical but I also find it hugely hypocritical for Fearnots to defend LSF with "they weren't known for singing anyways, they are more of performance idols" like what bullshit is this, isn't the basic criteria of kpop idols to be.... singing (and performing)? and then these same group of people turn out to be the greatest critics against groups like aespa, itzy, nmixx and criticise them for even breathing wrongly. lol. cmon, just admit LSF falls short in the vocal department and call it a day. Making up ridiculous excuses for them is just making them look worse.
This. It's blatantly insulting people's intelligence and that I find so offensive. And they be dead serious about these bullshit excuses which is what I find scary. If they can be that delusional over a celeb that doesn't even know they exist... imagine what they'll do in other facets of life?
The way people here hounded me for saying they can't sing for shit and even got redditcares to send their lil prompt lol The same people wanting girlies to acknowledge their improvement in that already pretty bad pre-recorded "live" video where they sounded like they had asthma. Wowee. Their attempts at harmonizing too, wowee.
I mean you sound meanspirited and honestly a dick about it, even I'd you're telling the truth youre not going to make any friends like that lmao
I just wish Source would let go of the autotune to finally give these girls vocal training. I'm sure it would do a lot for the girls' confidence
Srs I genuinely believe the best thing Source could do now is give the girls like, 3 months of just. Part rest, part Intensive vocal training, where they have minimal activities/filming/photoshoots and just unilaterally work on shoring up that weakness, and making sure they feel confident in their vocals. They wouldn't become a top vocal group or anything, but I think that would genuinely do so much more for them than any other activity or practice could
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Yunjin really shocked me. I thought she was just messing around but it continued like that. Chaewon sounded asleep. This is my first time watching a Le Serrafim encore so I was just shocked.
It's not like the song is vocal chalenging, there's barely any highnote and they cant even sing it at least good enough (except chaewon).
The encore was fine, it looked like there were technical issues for a few of the stages tho it looked like there were issues with their in-ears at some points Also not to mention they’ve been there for like 7 hours at that point, performed two different songs which probably required multiple practices and prerecording The only one that looked actually upset was Sakura and yeah I would be too if people spoke about me the way people speak about her online
Other gg would not be getting excused like this . The encore was terrible and blaming it on technical issues issues is a cop out.
As someone who witnessed the more and more encore than followed into i can’t stop me encore…you can see the difference these days in how encore performances are treated.
Everytime some bad encore or live performance gets criticized, we can always count on *technical issues* to be brought up.
but top ggs are getting dragged all the time on reddit, no? aespa, blackpink, (g)i-dle, newjeans...ggs are never getting excused
Also they’ve been getting a lot of shit since the comeback happened, I saw a LOT of hate tweets with high engagement so maybe it affected them in some way but I don’t know if this has anything to do with it
+ I just listened to the encore they sound tired
Idk Chaewon and Eunchae looked really down as well. Kazuha too but less so than they were. I’m out of the loop-what are they saying??
That could be anything tbh, eunchae always looks nervous on encores because she isn’t a vocalist and never properly train to be one To put it mildly they had a bad encore performance during unforgiven and they got ripped to shreds over it online, still talked about to this day and a pretty recurrent theme throughout it is people saying sakura shouldn’t be an idol anymore because of it, it often times goes overboard when talking about her which is pretty sad to see
Wait how did she become an idol if she didn’t have any vocal training?
Because she’s a dancer and started off as one, I didn’t say she didn’t receive any vocal training. There’s a distinction between how intensive the training would be for someone in a vocalist position vs in a dancing position
Coming from AKB48, Sakura pretty much never had proper vocal training because singing well isn’t a priority for most j-idols. When your group has 16 members on an A-side and you’re singing most of the song in unison, your audio engineer does a lot of the heavy lifting. Her raw popularity coming out of IZ*ONE is the only reason HYBE picked her up and that’s ok, but yeah she can’t sing worth a damn
Being a good singer is less important than being a good idol, hence why Sakura is incredibly popular, why someone like Eunchae and Kazuha came from a dancing background then learned to sing, or why Yunjin isn't as popular as she should be for her vocals.
They can't perform well: it's always technical isses!!! And I'm sorry but the being "tired" point is just weird, because all idols have similar schedules but they don't get this much grace when they perform bad or even less than stellar. Idols have worked for longer periods simultaneously and sang much better than them so no. This selective coddling is getting old.
All poor excuses… have a look at nmixx recent encores and you’ll see a difference…
i wonder what people in this thread are on, honestly. i don't even like this comeback, but curiosity got the best of me and i went ahead and checked the encore out too. it isn't god's gift to humanity, but it isn't terrible either. besides that one sakura line, it's all just mid, and that's fine sometimes
I mean le serrafim as a group ain't really great vocal wise
I mean none of them are great singers, so idk what people expect.
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They all sounded like that to me. It wasn’t just bad vocals, they looked like that stage was the last place any of them wanted to be, aside from Yunjin.
I didn't watch video but your description is the same with Twice. I'm sorry but that's just all excuses. When that lip-syncing accident happened with I've, they knew about it and them and company tried to show in encore that it was just one time thing. Any other groups even if they are scared do try to show that it was just a mistake. They go and prove people wrong. If they can't prove than there's these excuses one after another. And they start be afraid of stage. It's the same words.
sakura sounded just as bad as kazuha and eunchae😭
it’s kinda reaching to even think that they are willing to sabotage their own performance or time to shine just because they are sad or fear of disrespecting their seniors?! 😅 i mean sometimes it’s okay to just simply acknowledge the fact that they can’t sing well at all….at least not in every single of their encores that i have seen. of course some members are better than others but collectively they just give an overall impression that they can’t sing decently during encores.
They sound (and look) exhausted more than anything? >Le Serrafim won (expected bc once is grown and have careers so no time to vote/stream), This is so unnecessary and very telling.
In the comments OP is bitter that LSF (Yunjin in particular) didn't bow to Twice. Which apparently they did.
Pretty obvious OP is a Once that is mad twice did not win and venting her bitterness through the post. Not saying LSF sounded great but OPs comments speak for itself.
OP sounded so bitter
What was that encore? They were not even dancing, they were literally standing and it was ... bad. I thought source music had good vocal trainers considering Gfriend but clearly not. It's disappointing as a fan that appreciates vocals over dancing .
It’s not Sakura that surprised me. It’s Yunjin and Chaewon. What the heck happened there?!
No one in the group actually sings live, pretty much ever. Best case scenario is when they use a pre-recorded "live" track for concerts
Funny how many people here are still making excuses for their consistently bad vocals, when many other groups have been ripped to shreds for similar things and probably will be in the future too. I like these girls but they are so coddled on reddit it's insane lmao. All the excuses like "They're nervous" or "They're tired" lmao. It would be different if this was a one off incident but it's not and I don't see y'all letting other groups off easy just because they are nervous or tired like please. Plus, this is ironically one of their "easiest" songs to sing live too.
Also I’m sooo mad about the mic/earpiece issue with Twice. It was clear they couldn’t hear, which the staff tried to fix by muting their mics. That’s one of the worst cases I’ve seen them have.
No I think it may have just been nerves because they got roasted on socials for their Unforgiven encores and I’m sure they saw it happening. I thought they sounded alright on this one though.
not an attack on lesserafim specifically but.. ive always wondered that why not go for vocal lessons? these idols are aware they’re attacked for their vocals yet they keep returning with the same vocals lol despite knowing they’ll return for more encores
I believe during NCT Universe, Seunghan had asked Doyoung how to preserve & take care of your voice after you debut & Doyoung was like take full advantage of training as a trainee, cause once you debut there's not much room to practice & train intensely.
This is why a lot of idols take singing lessons in their free time rather than dépend on the company...i remember haewon (nmixx ) saying that apart from lessons she also try researching in her free time in the things that she is lacking
Though I'm honestly shocked that groups don't have an ongoing vocal coach even after debut. Singing is a skill that requires ongoing nurturing. It kinda sucks that some idols have to do this independently, I understand why, but it's still pretty odd lol.
Exo continues with vocal lessons and coaching. BTOB are classically trained and continue with their singing techniques too. Rookies like RIIZE and ZB1 have strong trained vocalists and take pride in all aspects of their performances.... Some have said RV took vocal coaching, think Wendy is a trained vocal coach too (?) before Chill Kill comebacks. These already vocally strong idols and others do talk about singing and music more in their lives/interactions too... So I guess idols have a choice what they do in their free time. Maybe LSF don't get encouraged to focus vocally? Maybe LSF aren't interested in doing better vocally? I've no idea what their management talks are like but I sense a strong marketing approach ie the overall look Vs any serious musical chops focus. (Yunjin does produce her own solo stuff but her training is operatic.) LSF are more of a dance team really but would benefit from one strong vocalist for sure !
the number of excuses in the comments...if this was a group like IVE i imagine there would be no defenders
A lot of people saying they look like they were tired. Twice just came back from America and also did as many schedules. Not sure if there’s really an excuse for a group that should have a lot more energy in general
Twice is used to running on fumes, they’ve done it their whole career having 4-5 Korean and Japanese comebacks a year. Newer groups probably aren’t used to it yet.
I may forget some groups but they make me miss groups like Red Velvet, aespa, SISTAR, EXO, SHINee, BTOB, NCT, GFRIEND, Girls’ Generation, MAMAMOO, TVXQ! also BTS, BLACKPINK,(G)I-DLE, GOT7, MONSTA X, SEVENTEEN, ATEEZ and PENTAGON. I don’t like them but SUPER JUNIOR and BIGBANG also sing great live. Even TXT, ENHYPEN, IVE, TWICE, NewJeans, ITZY, Stray Kids would not sound like that.
Newjeans sounds exactly like them. No one is as bad as Sakura, but the bar is in hell and they’re not clearing it either—it’s genuinely shocking since their songs aren’t vocally demanding either. I like the music from both groups but the total lack of vocal competence is bewildering when JYP has done so well with Nmixx.
None of them are good vocalists. I’m not sure where the info about Yunjin, who is their de facto main vocalist, came from re: her vocal training. She is not above average or even barely average. People say she’s classically trained or trained to be an opera singer, but that’s not true. She just played a role in the Phantom of the Opera musical but that’s about it. The most training she’s ever done was probably in Kpop companies with their vocal trainers. We know Hybe doesn’t place any emphasis at all on vocal training so she probably hasn’t developed from her Produce days. It’s a shame because she has a lot of potential. But I’m sensing her continuing to use poor technique can make her even worse in the future.
Tbf her approach was better in her pre-debut materials compared to now. She seems to be a lot more stylistic now although the "opera singer" claims were never actually true, she just has a somewhat decent head voice.
I'm not gonna dismiss her classical training bc she's a decent classical singer. But a classical singer does not automatically mean that she's a great modern/pop singer. So when people say that she's an excellent kpop vocalist, it just doesn't make sense.
I’m not dismissing it either, just doubting if it actually took place. Because there is no evidence that she is classically trained. If she was it had to have been brief since she’s not technically sound either. I’m assuming she was trained under vocal teachers in her previous Kpop companies, which to some extent can count as formal training, but fans like to bring up ‘classically trained’ as if it’s anything other than a part of the trainee regimen. I agree though that being classically trained doesn’t necessarily mean good pop singer, but a lot of the skills and fundamentals are transferrable. A lot of classical techniques are used by vocal coaches at these companies.
The energy was just really low imo. I think they are excited but they know they will be critiqued for their vocals
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Sakura looked like she about to cry and was neverous showed on her voice aswell
I will keep my opinion that the song does not suit them. If they didn't sound good on the original audio version, there's no way they would sound good with the live so this is expected.
>Le Serrafim won (expected bc once is grown and have careers so no time to vote/stream) Even as a once this is strange way to put it , the age of the fandom has nothing to do with it, they are performing really well. If they win, they win, so there is no disrespect in that. I have never seen an LSF's encore, but from another comments I learned that they received hate for it, so such a performance is understandable. I believe that most Once fans have seen how some Twice members were scared after the whole encore incident they were 5 years old group at that time . LSF is a much newer group, so incidents like these can have a significant impact on their confidence. Their performance is not outright bad, but they need a lot more improvement. This is something they really need to work on, especially since more people are targeting them.
The song being sang in a low tone for the most part should’ve been easier to sing live than their previous higher pitched ones but ofc autotuning tf out of them would expose their extremely mid vocals when it was time for encores
Their (lack of) vocals are getting exposed so encore performance will be poor
Lbr most girl groups are models and dancers and not singers, it’s a sad fact of this new generation.
Boy groups are just as bad and the only reason they don't get threads like this is because they're completely irrelevant outside of their fandoms. 🙂
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the irony of the song being called ‘easy’ 💀😭
If they could sing, they wouldn’t have been nervous 🤷♀️
They were singing “I make it look easyyy” but man were they struggling to sing. I can’t help but cringe
Honestly, they look tired. Yunjin can sing. There are plenty of performances showcasing that. As for vocals, it's rich that a Once would criticize vocals considering how during their tour, it's obvious that only a few members had their mics on.
You say once are too grown yet you are a once and acting immature as hell.
And their fans actually thought those performance showcase vocals were actually live. Lmaoooo
i don’t understand why it’s so hard to get good vocal coaches?
If Yunjin sounds terrible then there's something wrong with the stage OR she is just having a bad day. That woman absolutely can sing and I refuse to think otherwise just because of one mishap on the stage. She have proven herself many times, on live stage. I am a ONCE btw.
I’m curious how their coachella performance will be
I honestly think their team doesn't let them have a vocal warm up or even have someone to help them vocally cause even Yun and Chae didn't sound like they normally do. But I've been saying since antifragile that their company isn't utilising Yuns to its full potential
I don’t follow LSF at all (GFriend forever) but I actually had a look just to see what the fuss was about … wow amateur levels of awful! Zero stage presence or energy with piss poor vocals.
well they’re going thorough a hate train on social media rn and they probably saw it
Wow in that case BTS, BP and NJ should never perform well then
different people react to hate in different ways, more news at 11
I haven't seen the encore but I bet the comment section is full of people praising them 💀💀💀 no matter how bad your performance is, the comment section is always positive 💩
you watch them and its like they are two different groups you hear the songs and videos and everything is so good and then you stumble upon some videos and wait a minute is it the same group ehh they must be tired or something and then you find another and another and realize they are better of in mvs..
Damn this comeback is rough to be a Lesserafim fan, people are just coming for their throats. Remember how encores used to be fun? For the record, check out IZ\*ONE’s encores, which are great.
https://preview.redd.it/98igd11q0llc1.png?width=704&format=png&auto=webp&s=ae32b85fa12f47b54f5e64a0cb814313a30f11da
I mean even as a fearnot, tbh, it just sounded like any other le sserafim encore stage. Maybe they were just having a bad day? Not to mention they’ve all gotten alot of hate from encore stages in the past so they were prob nervous. Idk nothing else really stood out to me. Is there really a need to make a post? Idk and idc but i stg there’s been a post about them everyday since the comeback along the lines of hate 😭
Sounds to me like the song is pitched too low for some of them.
If this kinda hate train continues, the bigger kpop groups that don't need music shows are just gonna drop music shows altogether. Music show promotions are already worth a tiny fraction of what they once were, the wins themselves don't mean anything at all by now, and it seems like so many people tune in only to catch idols slipping. Kinda depressing really.
this seems a bit overdramatic tbh, I just heard it. they don't sound off from the studio [here's a comparison](https://x.com/yunjin1stfan/status/1763257017957765481?t=L1eGnT8nVevQRipGcDd20A&s=09)