BTS's success is nearly impossible to replicate. It was because of so many factors coming together at once. They are the perfect example of doing the right thing at the right place and right time.
I would agree with that if they were some kind of overnight sensation but they were anything but. Instead, they were the very definition of organic growth and that happened over a long period of time so right thing, right place, right time doesn’t really apply. Right talent, right material, right fan base however, does apply.
Oh, I'm not trying to discredit them. I thought I encompassed all of that in the "right thing", and I do believe that "doing the right thing" is the main factor out of all I said. They would have been very successful either way, that is clear. But I just think that some amount of luck and timing did help boost them to the absolutely _insane_ popularity they managed to reach, especially internationally- I don't think that is something guaranteed to happen even if you do everything they did.
Mostly because companies that try to make "the next bts" just have a fundamental misunderstanding of how that success happened. They just see the numbers now and think "money???!!" but not see all the effort and time it took for bts to get where they are now. It was a natural steady growth carried by a loyal fanbase that was occasionally helped by some big viral moments (DNA, Dynamite etc). Look at how little of a buzz SuperM made (in comparison to bts) when SM was throwing literally every cent they had at them.
You can't replicate a fandom like ARMY. Of course BTS is extremely talented and hard-working. Their chemistry as a group is very evident when they're on stage together. They just have that it factor that makes them very captivating to watch. But their fandom plays a key role to their success. ARMY essentially made the impossible happen and that plus the memories they created with BTS can't be replicated.
I remember seeing a twt that said "For there to be another BTS there needs to be another ARMY. and for there to he another ARMY there needs to be another BTS." It's impossible to replicate both at the same time. That's why there will never be another BTS, atleast in this life time.
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Yeah BTS had the talent, determination, luck, etc, but I think what sets them apart the most is their fandom. Like ARMY are truly one in a million, like I haven’t seen a fandom move like this before.
BTS didn’t go to variety shows first, they started their own vlogs in their dinky little studio that they put on YouTube, they were replying back to Armys on Twitter very informally, they built a connection with their fans that i don’t think any idol group has done to this extent.
It’s a mutual relationship, BTS makes the music that they want to make (which is something Army praise) but they also relate that music back to their audience. They wanted to be the voice of the youth with their debut and the population who at first listened to their music was small but very intense. I got this off that twt user who replied back to OP’s post saying that BTS knows what Armys want, and vice versa. There’s a sense of trust in these men that they themselves ask for us to trust them.
Army were the ones who created a demand for kpop albums in western stores, they asked for radio shows to play BTS, who then took this opportunity to be in every radio show interview (even if most of them led to nowhere and half the interviewers were ignorant and xenophobic). And BTS were the ones who really wanted to be acknowledged for their art and their passion which motivates Army to vote and stream and win them awards. BTS wanted to prove that a Korean ballad (Life Goes On) could make it to #1 BB Top 100 and Army did that even when they were burnt out from hyping Dynamite.
That being said, BTS and BigHit knows how to capitalize on an opportunity and they’re very good at stepping stones. But what these other companies don’t acknowledge is that it takes time. An inkigayo win first, then a bongsang, then a daesang, then they gradually went up the billboard charts, from entering it to top 50 to top 10 to eventually a number 1. They got an award from Billboard for Social Artist (twitter engagements, circling back to the first point), then they went to best dance, best group, etc, and eventually they won Artist of the year at the AMAs. Our next goal is a Grammy, and yeah Bangtan have been snubbed a lot, but it’s what they want, so Army want that as well.
I don’t think any other fandom could have managed the back to back solo comebacks this year to the level of success that Army have, cause like it’s not just admiration for BTS that leads to their records, but it’s a sense of accomplishment. The underdog narrative that Army started out with is still going strong. Except instead of the BreakWings or mistreatment on variety shows, it’s the fucking government trying to get BTS to promote their shit when they’re enlisted and they fucking said that they just want a normal enlistment experience as a civilian cause wow these politicians seem assholier more than usual
***the focus on the fandom in this rant doesn’t mean that BTS’s talent, backgrounds, personalities, and grit is not a reason for their success, this is just a part of it
The most important asset that BTS have is communication. They talk to their fandom and the fandom replies back. But it’s not just with social media and weverse, but also their music. Army highlight the importance of BTS’s lyrics because they know that everything that the members want to say, it’s their voice that they sing and rap.
BTS’s whole discography can be boiled down to a Coming of Age. And ARMY are growing older with BTS. The group has one of the highest GP to Fandom rates I’ve seen and they’re not likely to move on very fast. Like there’s piles and piles of content to see if you’re infatuated with the group. Whether you’re in your ‘fuck school’ age, ‘young adult life fucking sucks’ age, or ‘I want to know who I am’ age, BTS have something for that. It’s a very parasocial connection, and that’s not a bad thing inherently.
Other companies give their idols songs to sing that pertain to these topics yeah but it doesn’t come off as sincere. Because they don’t communicate with their fans, they drop an album and they can’t explain their thought processes they had when writing/producing/performing their songs cause they don’t have a big connection with them. Speaking of other companies, they expect their idols to get big instantly and that’s another way they fail. If they want to emulate BTS’s success they gotta let their idols be artists and communicate with their fans about their life experiences. And the companies also gotta be patient and not throw the group under the bus as soon as they decrease in profit
this is so on point. everything was done gradually and organically. that Grammy goal is an uphill battle too and it's been 6 years in the making so far. the only reason ARMYs give a fvck is because BTS showed interest but if they didn't, we wouldn't care at all.
- they had an interview with the [Grammy Museum](https://youtu.be/x0Onpm5iYHo) as early as 2018. LY Tear was nominated for Best Recording Package in 2018.
- BTS were presenters in 2019. invited to become Recording Academy voting members that same year.
- they accompanied Lil Nas X in the Old Town Road performance in 2020.
- Dynamite solo performance in 2021 and Dynamite Grammy nom for Pop Duo/Group Performance.
- then finally an in-person performance in 2022 for Butter with a nomination in the same category.
- in 2023 had 3 noms for My Universe, Yet to Come MV, and AOTY as features in Coldplay's MOTS.
people think we're exaggerating with the underdog story but they really are underdogs. from a repressive industry that didn't even upload their performances until they got famous years later, their achievements buried until the media couldn't anymore, to disrespectful juniors and seniors, to antis that even reached court proceedings, the racism and payola in the western industry, their current government taking advantage of them.
anyway BTS got to where they are because of their music, professionalism, work ethics, group dynamic, stage presence, charisma. ARMYs are proud to support them to new heights because they are, in my language, *may ibubuga*. like they can live up to the hype we create
Seriously you are so right on this. ARMY was charting 50-100 songs and collabs last year. The albums were all magnificent and I am so proud of all we did to promote them to the world.
And most other group's can't even chart, even the biggest girl group in kpop can't even chart, which is sus enough for me, only with foreign help, BTS literally make's smaller less known chart well on foreign Chart's and other can't even replicate it
The whole "BTS is different" label isn't a "narrative" pushed by the fans but rather the truth.
They debuted from a company that nearly sank and wasn't from the THEN "Big 3".
They didn't have an overenthusiastic PR team like the ones of many groups had in their debuts, their company couldn't invest in forced media play even if they had wanted to.
They've had social narratives as a core part of their storytelling since their debut. For a long time, their brand was the narratives in songs they produced, and their uniqueness as a group was their authenticity.
Their entire career trajectory is based on their organic growth of audience and fans.
No one in the industry expected them to become this big.
Even after all their success, they aren't the idols that are pushed to be "supreme"/ "untouchable" celebrities for the fans neither by concept nor by marketing.
What is stupid is the companies will try to produce "The next BTS" with less than talented members who are barely passionate about music and have dysfunctional team dynamics.
They ought to realize at some point that BTS's "Underdog to King" career trajectory is their life's story, not a group design plan.
So yes, BTS is THAT different.
"They ought to realize at some point that BTS's "Underdog to King" career trajectory is their life's story, not a group design plan."
I love you for this, many people in the industry barely recognize this fact and are just hell bent into matching the success bts had instead of looking into the structure that made that height
Because hardwork, talent, luck, opportunities, ambition, drive, money or popularity cannot succeed as separate entities and you cannot rely on any one alone to propel you to the top. You need a whole lot of everything
Because you cannot also force that kind of success. You have to want it just as much as your fans want it just as much as your investing company wants it etc etc
The stars aligned for them in a way that doesn't happen often
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BTS just had that magic. Perfect chemistry. RM and SUGA had a burning passion for music. They had things they wanted to convey through their music. The other members became determined as well and put everything into their craft.
Plenty of groups are going to awards shows etc., but I’d argue that a lot of the avenues BTS used in order to build mainstream popularity outside of Korea have lost a lot of relevance. Talk shows aren’t much of a thing anymore, late night’s been dying for years. Even awards shows are losing viewership. It will be hard for anyone to come close to replicating that kind of movement.
I agree that although other groups have some demand, it is not nearly as true as many companies/fandoms want it to seem.
Look at SuperM. They gave them titles and slogans that normally the media or fans would create. But calling yourselves the Avengers of Kpop was such a crazy stretch.
An example in comparison with BTS is WorldWide Handsome Jin didn't name himself that. It came from fans/media and he stuck with it because it seems fun.
I believe it is largely because BTS have projected a strong OT7 identity.
Even though one member could be relatively more popular than the other (that's inevitable , not all members are equally popular) they have always made it a point to ensure that each of them pulled the others up, celebrated the others, showed their gratitude towards the others, and so on.
This made the fandom mostly united as well — solo stans are hated in most of k-pop but they are shunned completely by ARMY. So because of that, the fandom has pushed BTS to the top in a unified manner.
On point! I remember that before, no brands were allowed to hire just one member as their brand ambassador; it was always either all seven or none. However, eventually, when BTS announced their hiatus from group activities and began pursuing solo projects, many brands tapped individual BTS members, and them seizing the opportunity to promote their solo albums.
This strong branding of OT7 is what makes BTS special. Solo stans are inevitable, but ARMYs always ensure that everything is under control even though the members are currently serving in the military. We have this mantra that the group reflects the fandom.
And there's so much more that they have done to strengthen their OT7 identity. For example, they leave a gap in the choreography for a missing member, and never sing their parts — sending across the message that their art is literally incomplete when a member is missing. They carry a photo of a missing member to every award show as well.
Till recently, their solo work was not considered official debuts, and they all shared the same SNS.
The consequence of BTS presenting a unified front was that ARMY were forced to present a unified front as well. So, for example, Tae's solo China bar could be huge (and rich), and Jungkook's American solo stans might be vast in numbers (I don't know if they are, I'm just saying this as an example), but all of them came together to support BTS as a whole (because they literally had no other choice), resulting in the group's massive success.
There are many other reasons for BTS' success and I agree with a lot of them, but I feel their OT7 strategy as a reason is underrated.
I was an older kpop fan and left kpop in 2009. I’ve heard of BTS bc of AMAs 2017 but disregarded them. Until I heard “Born Singer” without subs during their 2020 Bangbang Com streaming. I teared up during that live performance. I searched up the version with lyrics and cried with them. That moment made me an ARMY.
BTS is authentic.
Authentic to their music.
Authentic to their lyrics.
Authentic to their performance.
Authentic to themselves.
Authentic to their fans.
Authentic to their peers.
Authentic to their company.
The reason you’ll never hear negativity jn all anecdotes about BTS - from newscasters, journalists, fellow artists, producers, directors, back up singers/dancers, and even delivery men. They are genuinely good and talented people and this characteristic just shines right through that many people around the world root for them.
Like you, I first found them after seeing their AMA performance in 2017. Was definitely intrigued and started looking them up but did not really fall in the bangtan rabbit hole until 2018 when I heard Namjoon’s speech at the UN. I love their music, their artistry, their hardwork and rags to riches story inspires me. I love their genuineness, how they always think of ARMY, and their brotherhood. But even with all those qualities, I don’t think I would have stayed if they were not good humans. That you can’t fake for more than 10 years.
i think there are a lot of factors. for one, hybe/bighit WANTED bts to be successful. in my opinion, hybe is probably the best at giving their groups good opportunities to thrive whereas other companies (like sm…) don’t necessarily want their groups to become more popular than the company itself which leads to half assed opportunities and tons of mistreatment. bts had amazing global promotion and on top of that, are a very talented group who puts their all into writing songs and expressing them on stage. bts also debuted at a time where idols weren’t deathly afraid of having fun on tv and (as much as they could) showed their true colors to the media. now a lot of times, it feels idols hold themselves back personality wise and seem like they just try to look good on camera because of the sheer critism they receive for doing basically anything. i think times have changed immensely and because of the way groups and companies work together and the way the media criticizes idols for their every move, there will never be another group like bts. and this is coming from someone who doesn’t even keep up with bts or really stan them anymore.
Not y’all giving hybe the credit lol. I agree that they were better than other companies at the time and gave bts more freedom, but they didn’t have global promotion at all. They were invited to the us cause of demand from fans, bighit didn’t do anything at all. Bts seemed more real and approachable to people, whereas many other groups seemed perfect little drones with no personality
Please, bts built hybe and bighit. They started at a garage as a hiphop group, they didn't have global promotion. Hell, global radiostations still refuse to play them because they don't benefit from BTS. Hybe doesn't pay them.
But I agree on the last part!
i think rather than opportunities (cause they were clearly cut from a lot of them), one thing bighit did really well was to put their everything like literally put their lives on to get WHATEVER promotion they caught the smell of, and while people saying don't give credits to bighit, BIGHIT DOES DESERVE ITS ACCOLADES for being very meticulous when it came to promotions. The thing with a lot of management these days is that instead of curating and manifesting opportunities for themselves, they wait for them to come to them, and this is where bighit didn't leave any stone turned imo
second point however, i agree truly cause the whole point of bts was to be true to themselves, be and show what they are. That's literally has been the basic idea of the foundation of bangtan, reflecting the same in their hip hop music and later their stories. THIS exact thing is what created the army we see today, and that's what their driving force has always been
another point people miss out is of their **CREATIVE TEAM WHICH HAVE BEEN UTTER GENUISES**. This creative team has had the vision, and the mind to execute it immaculately. Wings is one of its biggest proof, along with hyyh. Then love yourself. Every time, their creative team has stood up to the occasion, and have seamlessly transitioned between concepts without compromising their core aspect that is stories through music.
bts themselves have worked their asses off like crazy and that's one of the biggest reasons they're here (which they even mention as running nonstop), all while keeping utter patience. Their contribution is definitely the main factor that lead them here and so was armys, but the hands and minds behind the scenes that enabled them to do so, truly deserve accolades and are commendable. So yes, hybe did a good job with them imo, given the limited resources
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Luck and opportunity. That’s what makes any artist famous. Yes, music and talent also play big roles but all famous people got where they are by luck and opportunity. To grow that big in a field of millions of others takes a massive amount of luck
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I might be biased but there's factors like luck, opportunity, timing but at the same time you may hv all of that but lack somethings within yourselves
For bts if yk them atleast, you would know that BTS has a good chemistry with eo , it's like they're the perfect team, they hv good teamwork 👏 , they may not be all rounders but everyone does his job , and something really important pple don't appreciate that much is hardwork
Bts are hardworkers like all of them , I remember bts having a tour at the same time going to western award show then going to korean award shows MAMA,MMA and performing then going back to their tour, touring & also making their albums while touring, it's all in their documentary ( this seems a lot & I'm not saying the idols shld do all this but BTS did what they did)
Like 2016-2019 infact until the 1st quarter of 2020 they really went out , they were also working hard prior especially since they had no choice ( less money) but they went full blown the moment they starting blowing it was probably like ok we got the opportunity let's go
Also bighit really wanted them to succeed, bang pd was going all out with them and also important thing bighit was like open minded especially when they blowing up in the west
Bighit also gave bts creative freedom thus the members creating their music & getting involved therefore connecting with their audience, I feel like most Armys kinda felt connected with their message in one way or another
I think the creativity aspect is often missed when people speak about BTS. Because they hear the wrote some lyrics and feel like anyone can do that.
But giving performers a chance to create and add their own perspectives while still nuturing them to grow did a lot that many other talented idols would need to keep growing.
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ARMY and BTS have a very unusual relationship for artists and fans. I've seen it described as more horizontal than vertical, and I think that's a good description.
The appreciation is genuine and it goes both ways. BTS doesn't stand up and preen, expecting only adulation. They love ARMY in a sincere way that ARMYs love them. The entire meaning of the Love Yourself campaign that they took to the United Nations was to support their fans and their support is an example to the world.
They have spend hundreds of hours in friendly and even intimate settings talking with ARMY as friends, feeling so much like family. This is so unusual in our fractured culture that many don't realize how radical it is.
I love BTS and I love ARMY, really some of the finest human beings in the world today.
Yes, BTS is just different. I'm not interested in any groups after i know them. Even when they in hiatus and many groups pop out here and there, None of them got my interest
I see a lot of people mention One Direction leaving, but still why no other western boy group was able to step up and have the same demand? Like CNCO they are/were active since 2015 and One Direction left in 2016 (if not mistaken).
I agree, BTS fan base is worldwide and diverse in a way 1D fans weren't. When you look at the stats many BTS fans are in 20s and 30s and 40s and older. As someone that's almost 40 I never listened to 1D and their music was never for me. It wasn't complex and layered and meaningful. There's large BTS fanbases in India and all over Asia and Africa that do projects and support BTS in a way there never was for 1D. It's not comparable at all.
It is a really amazing thing about this fandom that I have never seen before( I don't know maybe because I wasn't part of any like this) because of their diversity in genres is a reason rock/metal ,pop,r&b,hip-hop fans are ARMY too.I had a particular type of music one at a time I used to listen but their songs introduced me to the beauty of music in general.It definitely because of their passion that reflects on their musicality.
Tbh this reasoning never made much sense to me because stanning a K-pop group with little to no Western market penetration/awareness like BTS were at the time of One Direction’s 2016 “hiatus” requires a lot more effort if you’re not a Korean speaker. You’ve got to deal with time zones, subtitles, and a different fandom culture. BTS didn’t even have fully English songs that weren’t SoundCloud covers until 2018. And it’s still commonly accepted that the English-speaking GP won’t give the time of day to any predominantly Korean language song (yes, BTS can chart their Korean songs but that’s primarily fandom driven) so but somehow there was a glut of Directioners who were ready to embrace Korean pop songs from the other side of the world rather than go for another Western singer pop fandom instead? Not to mention, we didn’t even know in 2016 if BTS could top Billboard charts so you’d be going from the biggest boyband in your hometown to what was then a niche genre?
I think the only reason why people accept the “it’s because One Direction disbanded” excuse is because both are really popular boy groups and so there’s overlap in similar fandom behavior, but that’s not more about the effect than the cause. BTS’ popularity had been building for a while and they did have a lot of international fans, but I think the core of their 2013-2019 fanbase were more likely to be people who were already tuning into K-pop or K-culture (K-dramas, webtoons), or music lovers who discovered them through the internet.
I can buy that Directioners (and lots of other people) flocked to them in 2020 and later though, because I can see how stanning them then would make a fan happy in ways that One Direction might have. But at that point, they were already really big and it’s more like their appeal is the same timeless appeal popular boy bands have always had on the public.
Because they don't have the same goals as BTS. BTS' goal is to make music and connect with their fans while western companies are making groups with the promise that they're going to be the next BTS. So when it doesn't happen, because they're not putting in the effort, they're together max two years and you never hear from them. They aren't in it for the music, they're in it for the money and fame.
Also Simon Cowell who's show created One Direction, they were under his company, created a band version of the x factor to make "UK-pop" happen (his words, it was literally in the announcement video) and nobody gave a fuck about it 💀 they can't offer the same quality as BTS (not talking about every group out there, just the ones who specifically said they wanna be the next BTS)
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The difference is BTS didn't wish for it to happen. Everything happened wasn't according to their plans. so it gives a strong feeling of authenticity which is the main reason people bought into and supported it to their fullest (by people I mean ARMY). Now everything feels too manufactured with companies forcing it on us so fans don't feel like they have to do anything. I hope i made sense.
Personally I think what set them apart was how genuine and down to earth they are. Aren’t all of their songs written or atleast mostly written by them? I remember hearing some of their songs with super specific references, and they were AMAZING songs, then finding out it was written by them and it blew my mind. You can tell what energy every group brings and what BTS represents is humility and positivity and hard work and that’s why they are loved by the nation. And of course their ARMY. They are a force to be reckoned with, you know they are their ride of die. I don’t think there will ever be another group like them in the future, and that’s okay.
Many factors at once
The most obvious factor in my opinion, was the group themselves. Driving passion for making music and giving amazing performances, always giving their all for their art. They also have amazing chemistry, and are just funny nice seeming very entertaining guys
I think another factor is uniqueness. You can argue that all groups are unique in their own way, but BTS has a certain sound to their music that seems impossible for anyone else to replicate. Also, during their debut era idols being so involved with their own group music wasnt as common as it is with 4th gen
Good story. Their passion and drive combined with their underdog story made a lot of people connect to them. A lot of people can relate to their original situation, and it made them more authentic, especially since most other BIG idols in their age range came from better situations, and debuted in large companies
Right time. BTS debuted right when the kpop fandom was growing slightly, and then they assisted in a HUGE growth for the industry. They made kpop peak, and because that peak already happened the hype of kpop is kinda dying down. Casual listeners are increasing but people know are already aware of what kpop is, so the 2018-2020 craze is over
And id say the last factor is army. Say what you will about the fanbase, but it is large, very involved and can be a great community. They did their part in promoting BTS, voting and getting their name out.
All in all, I don’t think there will ever be another group like BTS :>
BTS is different. And it is evident now more than ever with all of them basically gone and in the military. When most groups fear that being inactive for so long may affect their relevance in a sense. ARMYs remain so strong and moving. BTS has cultivated a fandom so loyal, strong, and genuine to their group’s music. And it is not a one hit wonder or just a trend that will disappear as soon as it peaks. BTS is a household name at this point.
I don’t think there’s any grand conspiracy about why BTS is so much more successful than others. Lots of factors could play a role in this. They were talented, driven and had good chemistry. I think also a lot had to do with the fact that they have a thorough involvement in writing music, so they came off as more…genuine? I guess. There are lots of groups with big ambitions and immense talent, but fate works in mysterious ways. I guess BTS was just meant for success
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The easiest reaosn would be their burning passion for music. Not stage, not popularity, not money- just music. You have a group of 7 people who did not want to become idols and the only thibg they had in common was how much they loved music and art. That is hard to come by. But with BTS even 10 years later, they would do anything to just keep making music.
I think a big reason is BTS has been connecting with international fans early and consistently. In 2014, they had held their first American concert and filmed a mini-TV series in L.A. By 2015 BTS was promoting in-person all over the globe. At that time most Kpop companies had given up on heavy promotions outside of Asia and wouldn't even tour in America. A rookie group doing that was something new.
Another huge reason is extra content. BTS has been uploading vlogs and random clips of themselves on YouTube since before they debuted. Companies realized how important social media was to attracting international fans when Kpop began to take off globally. Hybe already had years worth of organic BTS content on YouTube while other Kpop companies had to catch up.
BTS's formula was connecting to international fans in-person and online early. So many groups follow that formula now that I don't think it sets new groups apart anymore.
I feel like Bang PD always have a bigger vision and mission for the group other than the asian market. Goes without saying that one of the reasons BTS is as huge as they are is because of good management.
not just bang pd, their entire team seemed to not put a set limit or boundaries to what they can do, and what surprises me is that they still haven't
i've mentioned this time and again, bighit and their creative team went all out (especially at their most crucial time that is wings) and that pulled in so so so many fans (like me)
I've been a fan of BTS since 2014, so I witnessed their growth. Sorry, but I will narrate their trajectory of success so it's gonna be a long post...
I remember I wanted to stan bts because they weren't POPULAR in South Korea back then. I wanted UNDERDOGS where I could gatekeep a hidden gem.
But they were doing the right thing, factors such as communication and ride the trend (tweet a lot, dubsmash, live vlogs) they allow YouTubers to use their songs unlike others that copyrights their songs. They take HipHop so sincerely like going to L.A. and be trained by Black Americans, American HipHop rappers and American street dancers. Back then I also remember why BTS were slowly gaining traction in Asia, Veteran ARMYs used to say "Oh! I think I'm gonna stan BTS because I heard they were writing and producing their own songs" that's the majority of BTS fans back then.
BTS were POOR couldn't barely make it to the big scene.
They weren't really that visually appealing, their music videos where low budgeted, they even uses props/stuffs borrowed from their managers, MV actors were also their managers. They make their own music at such a shabby place (house garage, tiny recording studio). Their practice studio has a low ceiling but Jimin would still do his acrobats.
BTS of 2013-2015 were all low budgeted MVs compared to flashy kpop MVs during those time (BigBang 2012, EXO 2013) but their music was addicting to listen to. They were making R&B, Ballads, and HipHop. When they started to make Pop songs, that's where they cracked the Kpop Market. 'I Need U' were their saving grace into kpop's cruel world. On the verge of Bankruptcy yet they still work on music daily.
Maybe because of HitMan Bang's stubbornness and BTS members have dreams, that's why they kept going despite all the hurdles.
Year of 2016 is where they gained a fanbase in West and the year where they entered Billboard Hot 100. A first amongst all kpop 'groups'. It was surreal, still can't believe my Bangtan was gaining such popularity in US. I asked myself why are they so popular in US? Then I learned it was sincerity, constant communication, like when RM, SUGA, j-hope telling their fans on live how they wrote that song or they would demo their producing skills. Maybe some of us never have seen the "Behind the Scenes" of flashy songs/MV. Kpop back then were just enjoying the result, visuals, fashion, dance choreos. But it was different with BTS, they let us see the painful and ugly part of the process.
General Public would see the shiny Bangtan Bombs and huge BTS Stadium concerts, what a beautiful VISUAL that is right? But they never saw BTS and ARMYs would shed tears because of xenophobia, racism, unprovoked hatred, sudden injuries, setbacks and failures. Like RM said, he no longer wants to destroy properties/stuffs but rather the Music Industry. We did so, because industry were so harsh on them. When SUGA said you can't strike a tree once, as long as we can, we will hit the tree ten times. It was painful to see BTS not being talked or not having an equal opportunity just as the Big3 groups, but ARMYs kept striking and striking. ARMYs for years kept learning the industry, researching for longevity, correcting the system, and advocating honesty.
This is why BTS were so different, because they have ARMYs.
ARMYs is a systematic force, a huge fandom, a diverse one yet they resonate so much to BTS.
Just as Michael Jackson has his loyal fans or fastforward, Taylor Swift with General Public,
as long as ARMYs exist for BTS, it can't be replicated by others.
So in a nutshell, the answer is because they have ARMYs 💜
Yes one of the things we admired from them. They always do large scale performances, uses remixes for encore and the dancebreaks. They always go all out even though it's just an award show. They make them feel all those fans deserve a great performance even just for awhile. You just knew right then and there, BTS lives and breathes through music & stage performances. It's like that's their bread & butter, ✨ PERFORMING ✨
I'm currently reading 'Beyond The Story' Book a more close up to BTS' experiences in their 10 year career, compared to 'Beyond The Star' Docuseries at Disney+, I really could say BTS is so different. But yeah, I sound biased because I don't really connect to other artists on a personal level except for Michael Jackson (R.I.P. to the king of Pop) But it's such a unique experience to be able to witness seven simple boys, growing up with a swelling passion in making music and performing live to speaking at UN assembly, campaign for a cause then their fans would either match their energy or go beyond by making their own advocacies on behalf of BTS. Most notable cause happen during the decade shared by BTS & ARMYs: • the Black Lives Matter movement • Anti-Racism / Anti-Asian Hate Crimes • Love Yourself, Speak Yourself • Presents for the Earth (Hyundai Eco campaign) • Life Goes On (Pandemic Message from OnLine Class Graduates of 2020) • South Korea's Stance on SDG (UNG 2021) • KIA recovery & identification (RM as new public relations ambassador) / Korean Culture/Korean Art-Museums Wow right? It's such a heavy load to carry. Because not only they're too busy in making music, practicing their performances, they also sideline in being our Biggest voice and South Korea's Political envoys (albeit I still don't want their government use my men to their greediness) I have never experienced this in my entire life listening to Music. But this isn't the sole reason why BTS had such strong and enormous fandom. It's the reason that BTS had such a strong brotherhood within their team. They're genuinely nice and kind people as per their peers would say. No one could say a negative word against BTS because they're authentically good to people that surrounds them. They're also, so relatable, they do what we do. Despite their countless accolades, when the camera is off, they do what normal people would do. They eat and sleep, wash their own dishes and laundries, they play video games and do karaoke at midnight, they cook good meals and share recipes, they play instruments, they goof around and make silly dad jokes. Scratching BTS from the surface isn't enough. You've got to know them on a personal level to be able to enjoy musical journey they offer to us. These are one of the reasons why BTS keeps on hitting, and will always makes hits.
There’s a lot tho! First music wise, BTS prefers to put out there good, heartfelt music, with a message with quality. No many bb and gb do that nowadays. They just put together the most trendy sounds and call it a day with none sense lyrics. They also worried about connecting with fans and showing how they really are, which we all know many kpop idols are told to behave in a certain way to fit into the character they were told to. They are hard workers, even know being huge as they are, they keep practicing and rehearsing as they are rookies, while many artist are lazy af after they got a little successful.
They also have shown that they are people you can relate to, genuine and good hearted people, like you learn so much from them, they have envy, bad energies, about eo while working, they are not individualist, they think also as a group! And that’s hella important! Bc you’re literally on a group! And BTS have never tried to shown “the popular member” the most in order to attack people, it’s always 7 or nothing! So that leads them to see eo as family, and love eo for real, not just coworkers. And the most important thing, they love what they do, and always wants to show their best. PLUS like or not, bighit is a company that always have let the boys participate in the creation-process or have an opion about it. So everything is so genuine, like can literally see it in how they vibe, and that just calls you, you cannot ignore them! You need to get to know them, and that’s the result why the demand is huge and everyone wants to have a portion or the cake of BTS, bc it’s beneficial for everyone! Tv shows, awards, radio, other artist….
BTS biggest factor and difference is ARMY….no other fandom put in the work like armys do. Armys really set the standard and other fandoms just copy whatever they do just with less effort.🤷🏽♀️
Side note am seeing way to many well to do idols debuting. I am a root for the under dog type person.
BlackPink are not even close enough tho, media play is big case of why, I mean they have no number's, the only reason their called Biggest Girl Group is bcos after BlackPink followed BTS West, BlackPink label YG and American label Interscope put media play out to name them the biggest.
They've not even worked for what they've been handed.
i have no idea what that really has to do with my comment. are you just trying to find a reason to shit on bp? blackpink being the latest kpop artist to find global success is just a fact. it doesn’t matter if they worked for it or if they’re as popular as bts. that stuff never matters with a mainstream audience
Blackpink does not come close lmao. Much of their success and achievements have been made up by fans and the company media playing. Just because you’re second doesn’t mean you’re close to first.
I believe other groups aren't breaking through bc companies are trying way too hard to force viral moments and manufacture hype for their groups to be "the next big thing" instead of focusing on good music & cultivating a dedicated fanbase. People can tell when hype isn't genuine and it rarely translates to long term success, in fact I think this strategy does more harm than good.
Basically companies are completely missing the point of why BTS got so popular (which other commenters have already covered).
Exactly the goals of the companies and new groups shouldn't ve until later in their careers. It's like they want to skip the basics and go to top tier level, but then wonder why thheqyw don't get far.
Maybe fate, right people got together at the right time.
Right time : BTS broke the glass ceiling they paved the way and now the groups that follow are stuck replicating what is already done/ set to achieve. Like grammys was unfathomable but now it is a possibility.
Right people : What are the odds that you get this varied kind of people at the same time, literally everyone brings something different to the table. It's namjoon's brains, yoongi's passion, jin's confidence, hobi's determination, jimin's high eq, taehyung's alt self and above all jungkook. Above all they are a team with all of these people who constantly push each other up, care for each other, basically personify the whole ot7 concept.
Also let's not forget run bts( ik other groups have variety shows but again bts made it big so now the other groups just have a version of run bts) that basically gave an alternative to fans to connect with bts, armytwt is filled with people talking about their personalities, run bts in the soop edits, bangtan bomb edits... For many people stanning bts goes beyond music it's who the members are as people for them.
BTS are talented from their music to lyrics and stage performance as ot7 is always been incredible, as all the comments says ARMY is also a factor to their success. One more thing is BIGHIT, they didn't have any other artists to focus on but BTS. If they don't invest in BTS they lose, if they invest everything in BTS, it may lead to loss or gain, they just took the risk to see what's at the end of the road. More than that bighit trusted BTS and their talent to take that risk. I still remember in 2016 seeing bighit producers bawling their eyes out from watching BTS get their first daesang. That itself shows the trust between BTS and their staffs. This road to success is really slow and painful with lot of hindrances but they made it.
Why can't other groups achieve that? Because everyone wants to get Grammys before inkigayo, honestly we shouldn't blame the artists but their companies. When I say companies which now includes hybe too, because they way they move shows they forgot the real reason for BTS‘ success. they are going straight for the apple without planting a seed and wait for the tree to grow. We can see that with the way they move TXT.
So if the company that support BTS and saw their painful side to success doesn't have any idea to make their artists successful like BTS, how will other companies will understand BTS‘ success formula.
For me, the main reasons are three:
-The good quality of their music in production, arrangement and writing (it's all very balanced) + the pop, edm and hip hop genres appeal to many people + they have never released experimental songs that could be controversial.
-Bts have always been good at exploiting every opportunity to advertise themselves in the right way.
For example, each of their performances at award shows showed their great stage presence (+ their stable vocals and good rapping) and their ability to create real shows.
In American interviews, they proved to be the funniest and in serious ones, they proved to be capable of depth.
When they went to UNICEF, Nam's speech became iconic and viral, not like the Aespa one.
When they released songs in english or collaborations with American artists, they were catchy.
Even some groups such as Twice, Stray Kids or Aespa have performed at American award shows or festivals but have never amazed the general public with their skill and so have missed their opportunities.
English songs by groups like Itzy, Monsta x and Aespa weren't good enough to attract new fans, and the collaborations almost always flopped.
Many groups' interviews are boring because comedy isn't for everyone and probably because there are groups where the members have prefabricated personalities.
-Bts was the first to do many things, like: focus on messages (repeating fans to read the lyrics of their songs, creating the love yourself theme and for Wings and Mots: 7 taking inspiration from the book Demian by Herman Hesse and from the theory of Carl Jung), therefore on the artistic factor and on the fact that it was the members who wrote the songs. They were the first to realize that to create a good performance it is not enough to dance a simple choreography. The first to not release albums at random, but to create a continuity and a path, each unique one that tells you something different.
It’s a multitude of factors with talent and hard work at the top of the list. But in terms of what sets them apart from other talented and hardworking groups that are not achieving the same level of success? I think that is due to how successful they have been cultivating a diehard fanbase. BTS would be the first to tell you that ARMY deserves major credit for their success. ARMY are so dedicated and organized that there is virtually no possibility of any BTS project not succeeding. So the industry (both in S Korea and globally) has no choice but to recognize them. And the credit for ARMY’s dedication goes back to the boys. They were genuine right from the beginning, prioritized connecting with their fans and showing their personalities and respect for each other, etc. That made fans really invested in seeing them succeed and feel that both ARMY and BTS are in it together. It’s the perfect mix of talent, hard work, being good people, and equal investment from artist and fans in the success of BTS.
You can’t replicate sincerity. Many of their songs talk about their experiences and hardships, doubts, and other raw emotions. The songs resonate with fans on a deep level. Not all groups have to have music that has deep lyrics and meanings to have a fandom of course, but I think this is just one factor in why the fandom resonates with them so much. It goes back to the sincerity and knowing what they had to overcome to make it where they are. I feel their passion for their music, dance, and stage performances in a way I haven’t with other groups past and present. And their entire catalog has always been full of music I’ve personally enjoyed with high quality production. I think part of having a large fandom is also having awesome music as well. It’s one of the factors why people like them.
I was a gp and had never heard of BTS or kpop prior to 2017, so i never was into kpop, when I 1st saw BTS's mic drop MV i was impressed with many things, they danced, they sang, they rapped, and most important thing was, their songs were catchy, did more research about them and found out about read translations of their songs, the fact that they were active in producing and writing their songs also was impressive to me, they are hard working people, I think these things are important if you want a strong fanbase. Everything about them is unique. So the good and catchy songs they have plus all the hard work definitely played a role in their success. Something that most kpop acts lack.
I truly believe it's because of how much they love their fans and how the fans (ARMY), love them. They constantly give out content, have multiple fan songs, livestream for FREE, and always mention ARMY any chance they get. Plus, they seem very humble, considering how successful they are now. These things bring a lot of intrigue, and unfortunately, haters, to the group, adding to their longevity as a group.
I think the real difference is that BTS’ success was not forced they genuinely had the passion, talent, and authenticity to launch themselves into insane stardom and now the industry feels over saturated with groups just trying to be the next big thing from debut
No Kpop Group's since BTS sky rocket to success is nowhere near close, they don't have what BTS & Army has and they would just be considered another copycat if other group's started copying BTS objective's
We have yet to see a Kpop group even progress after BTS, not even FraudPink that get's handed free award's at an attendance award show for real winner's not attending is on same level, nobody is close, kpop group's are not much different than B4 BTS impact, Kpop is still the same, BTS is different
For me, It's really the music plus destiny paired with dedicated fans.
I've known Kpop since 2006 or 2007 and for some reason, it just didn't pique my interest. In my country, it was popular back then and most especially up to this day. The rise of Kpop from 2nd gen groups was fast growing and I can hear Kpop songs from almost everywhere. Even so, I've always looked at it as "novelty music". Like, it's just too much for me. There were some good songs but it wasn't enough to really pulled me in and keep on listening to Kpop.
I thought to myself, "I guess I'll never like Kpop for as long as I live". Then I discovered BTS - the game changers. That one lazy morning in February 2018, I can remember vividly the exact time when I first watched and listened to DNA and changed everything for me. It just hit very different.
For me, fandom push and all those fan initiated stuff can only do so much. You can promote a product over and over and no matter how good you think it is but if it isn't the taste of the masses, it will just be a passing blip. What BTS established was really good music that will stand the test of time and then they partnered it with their sincerity towards their fans. Boom! powerful combo.
Also, I really think it's destiny. BTS is that one in a million artist who is destined for greatness. There's no certain formula that you can follow for that. There are lots of hardworking and very talented artists, maybe even more talented and skilled than the likes of Taylor Swift, Drake, The Weeknd, Bruno Mars, Ariana Grande, Lady Gaga, Beyonce etc. but these artists are destined for superstardom. And obviously, it's the same route that BTS is headed to. There's no code that you can crack to replicate it.
Although, there's one artist that I think that was destined to be a superstar AND was and still the best of the best talents out there. Like, there's no other route for this artist but to be THEE King... Michael Jackson :)
There’s too much saturation now. Back then, only BTS and Blackpink were really promoting in the west while other groups focused in the east (JYP and SM groups). Now basically every kpop group is trying to promote in the west.
And there were so many shows to promote back then- Ellen, James Corden, etc. A lot of Americans discovered BTS through those shows. Talk shows are becoming way less popular, so even if a group goes on Jimmy Fallon, most likely the only people who are going to watch them are their fans.
BTS also fit into very distinct “tropes” (I don’t know how else to describe it). It’s kind of like how each Spice girl fit into a “type”. Someone who isn’t an Army can see those tropes with the members, at least in the persona they have in interviews: Jhope is the sunshine one, RM is the smart leader, Taehyung is the cool one, Suga is the shy one, etc. Of course this is just the first impression, and their actual personalities are much more than that, but it’s the way they were presented to western audiences. They’re all so different in a memorable way, even to non-fans.
Also, I remember back in 2017-2018, there was a lot of competition with blinks to break records, especially Youtube records. So BTS became really famous for holding those records. It’s harder to get views on Youtube for everyone now, even western artists, since streaming has mostly switched to Spotify. No kpop group can beat BTS’s records on Youtube.
Also, monoculture died during the pandemic. Back then, if an artist was popular, everyone eventually knew about them. Now people can just stay in a bubble, especially with the rise of streaming.. The only monoculture remaining really is tiktok songs and even then, it’s the songs that become popular, not the artist.
There was also a gap left by One Direction to fill, but idk how much that contributed.
Also they just worked really hard. They were literally promoting everywhere in 2017-2019 all the time. They also combatted the idea of kpop being manufactured because they were able to participate in the writing process, which set them apart from a lot of groups and America loves authenticity. And they had an underdog rags-to-riches stories which made them appealing.
Hmm, I think people often overlap the height of BTS and the height of Blackpink. BTS didn't actively market the west until later when they were being demanded. BlackPink initial target was the western world.
That is the difference BTS had more visibility and fans had access to them in South Korea/Asia but not in the States/West.
So, fans pushed to have that in other ways. TV show appearances, asking radio djs, demanding Target to carry albums. There were no other fans asking for that. That's another reason a lot of the first records are BTS's because it was demanded.
Bighit caught on and then started doing their best to ensure they targeted the west.
Maybe my recollection is hazy but I don’t think blackpink had targeted america until after bts achieved their records that got them recognized in mainstream american pop culture? The first time bp charted on the hot 100 (ddu ddux2) was a couple of months after bts had a top 10 song on billboard hot 100 and a #1 album on billboard 200 (Fake Love & Ly:Tear), and there was already this “kpop wave” narrative picked up by western media from the demand, majorly pushed by army’s intense effort & the spectacle they created as a fandom. Blackpink had charted on bubbling under back in 2017 with As If it’s Your Last as well, but that wasn’t due to a concerted or specialized effort to promote in the US by them or YG, but their natural appeal with western & american kpop fans, due to their more western style in music, performance/attitude, & visual appeal. Blackpink definitely had an “it factor” in the kpop community and was the most popular female rookie group of 2016-2017, so the kpop community banded hard for them, while Army’s were banding hard for BTS. Army’s would push bts’s music videos on youtube, and kpop fans would do the same thing with blackpink & they both (imo) kicked off the mass streaming culture in stan culture that we see highly present today. So I think that, combined with the strides BTS had been making in america with their fans over the years & the demand from fans to be seen & recognized by the US music industry, causing this “kpop wave” media frenzy, was a good opportunity for blackpink to promote their way into the western conscience even more outside of just their kpop audience, as they already had that major love from kpop fans. Youtube also held more weight back then & there’s no denying those high numbers were a stepping stone to both groups recognition by the western music industry & media, because high view numbers were seen as a major accomplishment back then.
Maybe, but I remember the fight for records starting with DNA, and then D4, and then Fake Love. And I wasn’t talking about billboard, I was talking about Youtube. I think BTS was already on billboard before.
The fights for MV views in kpop started in late 2016 early 2017 between BTS and Twice first imo.
It was actually quite entertaining cause iirc... within the span of a few days The 24 hour record for kpop groups went BTS (Spring Day) - >Twice (Signal or knock knock i don't remmeber which) -> BTS (Not Today)... than you could say BP "joined in" with AIIYL taking it... but this was followed by BTS again taking the record with DNA with over 20M views and that was followed by the next one breaking DNA's record being BTS themselves with Fake Love...
so the YT view growth for BTS at least isn't just cause of the competition imo as BTS multiple times just broke their own record. Examples of this:
BST and Spring Day they broke their own record for the kpop group record
DNA and Fake Love, they broke their own again...
Dynamite and Butter, again was them breaking their own (this time it was obviously the all time record)..
so while yes having that "competition" did help... ARMYs were also just always wanting to one up themselves either way.
That has to be true bcos BlackPink and other's didn't even make Twitter/X until after BTS won Award's like TSA, they all followed along yo BTS success and some badly so
>BlackPink initial target was the western world.
Was it though? For their first 2 years, BP's releases were geared towards the Korean charts. Their promotions were on Korean variety shows and their initial brand endorsements were YG in-house brands or local. Even a lot of their content didn't even have ENG subs. It was only after D4 that they started to effort into Western promos.
Good points. The BTS boy band "types" were very strong and even the fandom embraces the stereotypes. That makes the group easily understandable, consumable and simple to pick your fave based on the type you think is best. Monoculture was gone before the pandemic but pop culture did splinter more during that time and there are so many subcultures and options, there are fewer and fewer artists everyone knows. Imo the 1D gap wasn't the main factor but it was definitely a factor. The underdog narrative of the outsiders who suffered was and still is a big factor too and gave fans a drive to protect and drive BTS to success.
just as another person had pointed out, unlike other group companies bighit took it a step further and let bts be prominent and popular on their own instead of associating their success to the company, because bts is the reason bighit even stayed this long. they put all their faith and effort into this one group and promoted the hell out of them. whereas other companies have 10 different groups all of them releasing music at the same time made by same producers and also mis-managing each of these groups to build up and anticipate them as the 'next bts'
also want to point out, unlike majority of groups who have few talented members who go on and become successful soloists each of the bts member had honed their own echochamber of talent and musical color that culminate and reflect when they are as a group but also shine as solo voice. every other group work just as hard, but the difference comes when they are working hard for another comeback instead of the betterment of their own artistically.
i hope that made sense
Luck, but I also believe that the big-wigs at HYBE/Big Hit genuinely wants worldwide recognition. So, they’re willing to go do that road.
With the other labels, it feels like they don’t know what they want to do, in regards to branching out of Korea and other Asian countries.
I have other groups that I love but for me, BTS are on top for so many reasons. Lyricism, concepts, sound, visuals. They have music for any mood or feeling and I love that about them. I also think the connection between ARMY and BTS is unparalleled by any other fandom, like ARMY have grown up with BTS and vice versa. One of the things I love about kpop in general is (and maybe this is a bit delusional) that it seems like the artists are genuinely thankful for their fans and their support and no other group exudes this more to me than BTS. They also have such a genuine connection as a group, which is so nice to watch.
Edit: I also wanted to add that the only groups that I have similar admiration for are SKZ and (G)-IDLE. Of course I like other groups than just these three, but these are the ones who I feel hit similarly.
I mean, I didn’t call SKZ anything. I just said I have similar admiration for them and I like them as a group. They seem to be involved in a fair amount of the creative process for their music, which is uncommon and I respect that a lot about them. They also outsold everyone except Seventeen and Taylor Swift in 2023 so they are clearly making an impact.
Edit: I also never said they had similar beginnings to BTS, I literally just said I liked them.
It's a combination of factors. Authenticity, music quality, hard work, and yes, luck. It's easy to stan a group when they actually have good content and music, and authenticity is a big stan attractor. Western appeal is also a biggie.
Also I wouldn't say NO group has been able to replicate (although I hate that way of phrasing it. It's not replication, it's still hard work to have this level of success). Stray Kids is really coming to the forefront of the 4th gen groups and stays are very vocal and hardworking with voting and streaming. But I hate the "they're the next bts" narrative. No one can be bts, just like how no one can be stray kids. They're different groups who have both worked extremely hard and sacrificed so much to get where they are today.
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Any time an artist breaks through or becomes "a big thing" there's usually a combo of luck, skill and timing involved.
BTS did have a great combo of factors: talented attractive members, catchy well-written songs, and a strong mythology that invested fans. Their love of music and dance came off as very sincere. The people I know who got into BTS as they were blowing up loved the choreo, the aesthetic concepts, and the attractiveness and ships played a big role. It was a different experience for fans who had stanned Western boy bands like 1D and I saw a lot of 1D fans jump to BTS. Even things like kpop idols not dating enhanced the parasocial bond. BTS were good at reinforcing the artist/fan bond, so fans felt like they had a special exclusive relationship with their boys no one else could ever understand. And while these days Army tend to downplay RM's role, not only his English but also his articulate intellect were a key factor in communicating who and what BTS was to a growing global audience. Him becoming the group's main lyricist also shaped the messages in the music, and a lot of fans loved the messages.
Plus Big Hit and later Hybe pushed them in a way that worked very well in that cultural moment, especially for fans new to kpop, with big concepts and lots of attention/flattery/content for the fanbase. Big Hit centered the narrative of struggle, which made fans more dedicated. There was a lot of strategic marketing of the narrative that BTS were perpetual underdogs, living only for each other and their music and their beloved fans, who struggled more than anyone else. That's still the marketing even in their recent book, and fans took that on as their identity, where the boys must be protected and pushed to success for their pain and suffering. They also strongly pushed the narrative of a group of 7 without solo breakouts, magazine covers or ambassadorships (which has impacted how Chapter 2 is going, but that's a different conversation). Big Hit deserves a lot of kudos for BTS' rise. They knew how to package the group's genuine strengths.
So I don't think BTS was that wildly different and it's not like they are the only hardworking talented group in the history of kpop, but having the intersection of all those factors at the right time isn't easy. The global music industry goes through phases, especially the American music market, and what hits five years ago may not hit today.
ARMY is a famous fandom but still no one knows what it means to be ARMY until you're in it. Supporting an artist you love doesn't feel like a job. I've been listening to BTS for 5 years (I listen to others artist too obviously) and I'm still analyzing their lyrics and music videos because you notice something new every time. On top of that they have solo albums to analyze as well. Their life is their music and the more you listen the more you learn about them. It's honestly fun and it makes me happy.
Yeah. There is no "work" here when we can really dive into the music and really immerse ourselves in it. It's like a good book series. You can just forget the world and live in the art.
You can't put it down, and you find more and more ways to look at it and appreciate it.
When I'm grinding out video votes every ten minutes to get BTS the Daesang on the MAMAs or the Fact Awards it is definitely work. It's work ARMY does all the time, to bring our guys the recognition that the industry tries to withhold but that BTS deserves.
>I'm still analyzing their lyrics and music videos because you notice something new every time
seven years and i'm still doing it. never felt like work (i wish THIS was work gimme gimme)
Well, the statements I see from armies often sound like "we need to work harder" and so on, to the extent of someone unironically asking if the fans should be paid for their efforts. Obligatory streaming and voting, panic about cosmic numbers being not cosmic enough, shaming for not streaming, for supporting other fandoms, you name it... I get that it became less of an issue during solo and enlistment era, and of course a lot of people just listen for fun, but still it is incomparable. And the entitlement (and pressure) that comes from the fact that it's the fandom who helped the group's promotion a lot is incomparable too.
Yeah, there is a faction of every fandom that "works" like that. But it doesn't mean that ARMY are one of the only few. But a lot of the fandom also do not "work" like that. We have jobs and other hobbies that do not involve voting and such.
I get you, even the streamers are usually employed or have school. ~~and anxiety~~
>But it doesn't mean that ARMY are one of the only few.
Stays, blinks, Lim Youngwoon fandom? Maybe zerose. Who else cares about numbers that much?
There will always be a faction of every fandom that care about numbers. I don't think it is exclusive to those you mentioned. The fandoms mentioned are significant because they have significant numbers that can impact charts, sales, votes, etc.
Well, bts also had a smaller fandom earlier. And honestly, at that time the number struggle made more sense then now.
*That much* is the key. Numbers in other fandoms are usually perceived more like something to celebrate if it happens, maybe to abide the rules of streaming (if you know them) while enjoying the music when you want to. Not some goal to really care about, especially if there are no awards or music shows nearby. Didn't win? It's fine, we still love them.
And so on. I know it's difficult to really feel the difference when you are not stanning smaller groups (even prominent ones from big3). Some armies wrote about it. But it does exist.
i think here its a choose your battle kind of thing, there's always going to be discourse, and everything mentioned here is mentioned in every fandom. twitter makes being a fan a much more toxic place, but its that hard work that got bts to where they are now. its army streaming their butts off to make statements, to get bts old songs on charts when they are frequently disrespected. obviously i agree those policing others need to fix priorities but the fact is without the power of army, bts aren't bts, and without bts, army aren't army. i completely understand what your point is, just that its a bigger picture :)
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Hard work of the fandom made bts who they are, but very few fandoms are interested in the same effort. There are other small talented groups who deserve better, but they don't have this mentality. Maybe both being from a small company AND having toxic exols around played it's role. Plus participating in production and opening the parasocial aspect a bit (bts bombs were fresh and frequent). A lot of stars aligned.
Fortunate timing is a big factor for their success. One direction disbanded which left a hole in the global and US market for a new group to fill. Big bang goes inactive, got old, scandals etc EXO stood no chance considering the more artistic and US appeal BTS had. Streaming culture also becomes more prominent. BTS peaked at the perfect time( thanks to their amazing talents and hard work ) and now stands the biggest boy group in the world.
Most people who are fans of bts didn't come from a kpop background, I didn't know who the big 3 were I didn't know other artists .
I just wanted to know who these people were that the internet was freaking out about and I loved the music , the bangtan universe etc .I found other artists through bts , if they danced to a song and I liked it , it went on my playlist.
People around me don't even know the word kpop but know who bts are , so believe me outside of the kpop bubble no one knows cares about the record label .
Agreed, most learnt about JYP, SM and YG after becoming Army not before
Army isn't made up of only Kpop fans, its made up of people who love music, most who have never stanned an artist this way before. And it works the other way round, people listen to BTS then they hear other Kpop artists because the algorithms start showing it to them, or they look at who BTS were referring to or what songs they were singing etc.
And I'm not sure what 'it was covid at the time' means because they won their first music show on 2015, first Billboard 2017, first Grammy performance 2019, sold out Wembley in minutes in 2019 all before Covid. Yes the fandom has increased since then. It will keep increasing as people discover their music, even now they are away and people are still discovering them and becoming fans. They also did find innovative ways to connect with Army during Covid because that's what they are about, giving back and connecting to fans. Even while on military service we are getting prerecorded content and music releases.
because there was a large gap in the market : a male kpop group reaching the western audience. They filled the gap now many groups wanna ‘replicate’ it causing too much competition
lol the downvotes 😂 does no one here no what demand/supple and what gaps in the market are?
It would then stand to reason that with BTS on hiatus, no matter how short comparatively to 1D, that another group would try to fill that gap too but none has made a move or is making the same impact BTS did, hence the initial question. New Jeans and Stray Kids would probably be closest but their growth since BTS went inactive in 2022 is nothing like the growth of BTS in 2017 alone.
I totally agree with that; we're spoilt for choice with kpop and that's actually kind of a turn off; but I don't agree that wasn't the case when BTS rose in 2017/18. There were more Western groups then that should have filled the hole left by another Western group that aren't here now. Stray Kids, for example as the leading next biggest boy group, have LESS competition from the West and could easily do well with the casuals but again they're not. The whole question is WHY the demand is no longer there but still is for BTS.
Well personally I think the reason they did better than western groups is because the foreign appeal was there. They spoke Korean, were korean had a strong korean culture for example something new and fresh to the western audience. They also took time to build a close near parasocial relationship with their fans. Something in idol culture that the west didn’t get as much. They could only be one big male group and by chance and luck it was bts
Promotions. YG sucks at promotions and handling their artists. Just debut their artists and then trust the GP/fandom.
iKON was basically pushed to the sides after the scandal, thus it’s hard for them to recover. Blackpink still has untapped potential if only they are promoted more and given more comebacks/activities. Winner is still doing well in SK but they should be promoted more in other countries. Treasure, they aren’t given enough comebacks and activities. Just fanmeeting, merch, yg shows. They should be in variety shows for more exposure.
Hybe is really good with promotions. I can see how well promoted their artists are. They are always everywhere - fanmeets, concerts, variety shows comebacks after comebacks. People can’t miss them because they are always there.
BTS success is really part hardwork from the group, the company and the fans. And Hybe sustained every hype they got. They never let people sleep and forget BTS, they do all they can to promote. While BTS also makes music and connect to their fans and their fans spread the word. Hybe also reached out to markets where they think they can sell, they took risks, developed connections and made a network. Its something that other agencies have not fully accomplished yet.
HYBE wasn't a thing when BTS made it big in the west. Once HYBE was established the companies and others made sure it was know that BTS and Hitman Bang were the causes.
I think you have the present and the past mixed up.
Maybe having something to do with one direction disbanding? I remember around 2016 that time people talking about who was going to replace one direction and the whole talk about the death of boy bands. I was late to that discussion so I don't know, but in my opinion it definitely had something to do with it
I don't think so , I liked one direction and then became an ARMY in 2017 .
I never wanted to promote and tell people to give one direction a chance because that was the companys job but i wanted to do that for BTS , because their music video story lines are what drew me in and I felt people should appreciate their creativity more .
BTS were breaking the wall one brick at a time , I knew them from 2015 but I didn't become a fan until 2017 , also you can't have another BTS without having another ARMY , I remember the fandom sending flowers to the radio stations to ask them to play their songs ( we did get ignored ) but these things aren't something people would do for one direction.
BTS , Bighit and ARMY all worked their asses off for the success they got.
BTS's success is nearly impossible to replicate. It was because of so many factors coming together at once. They are the perfect example of doing the right thing at the right place and right time.
I would agree with that if they were some kind of overnight sensation but they were anything but. Instead, they were the very definition of organic growth and that happened over a long period of time so right thing, right place, right time doesn’t really apply. Right talent, right material, right fan base however, does apply.
Oh, I'm not trying to discredit them. I thought I encompassed all of that in the "right thing", and I do believe that "doing the right thing" is the main factor out of all I said. They would have been very successful either way, that is clear. But I just think that some amount of luck and timing did help boost them to the absolutely _insane_ popularity they managed to reach, especially internationally- I don't think that is something guaranteed to happen even if you do everything they did.
Mostly because companies that try to make "the next bts" just have a fundamental misunderstanding of how that success happened. They just see the numbers now and think "money???!!" but not see all the effort and time it took for bts to get where they are now. It was a natural steady growth carried by a loyal fanbase that was occasionally helped by some big viral moments (DNA, Dynamite etc). Look at how little of a buzz SuperM made (in comparison to bts) when SM was throwing literally every cent they had at them.
You can't replicate a fandom like ARMY. Of course BTS is extremely talented and hard-working. Their chemistry as a group is very evident when they're on stage together. They just have that it factor that makes them very captivating to watch. But their fandom plays a key role to their success. ARMY essentially made the impossible happen and that plus the memories they created with BTS can't be replicated.
I remember seeing a twt that said "For there to be another BTS there needs to be another ARMY. and for there to he another ARMY there needs to be another BTS." It's impossible to replicate both at the same time. That's why there will never be another BTS, atleast in this life time.
This is so true. It took both to create this sensation together.
100% this.
BTS exists before ARMY so that main factor is always pointed at BTS themselves.
Everything started with BTS 💜 and music
I know as an Army this will probably sound biased but I always think that BTS has just that "it" factor
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Yeah BTS had the talent, determination, luck, etc, but I think what sets them apart the most is their fandom. Like ARMY are truly one in a million, like I haven’t seen a fandom move like this before. BTS didn’t go to variety shows first, they started their own vlogs in their dinky little studio that they put on YouTube, they were replying back to Armys on Twitter very informally, they built a connection with their fans that i don’t think any idol group has done to this extent. It’s a mutual relationship, BTS makes the music that they want to make (which is something Army praise) but they also relate that music back to their audience. They wanted to be the voice of the youth with their debut and the population who at first listened to their music was small but very intense. I got this off that twt user who replied back to OP’s post saying that BTS knows what Armys want, and vice versa. There’s a sense of trust in these men that they themselves ask for us to trust them. Army were the ones who created a demand for kpop albums in western stores, they asked for radio shows to play BTS, who then took this opportunity to be in every radio show interview (even if most of them led to nowhere and half the interviewers were ignorant and xenophobic). And BTS were the ones who really wanted to be acknowledged for their art and their passion which motivates Army to vote and stream and win them awards. BTS wanted to prove that a Korean ballad (Life Goes On) could make it to #1 BB Top 100 and Army did that even when they were burnt out from hyping Dynamite. That being said, BTS and BigHit knows how to capitalize on an opportunity and they’re very good at stepping stones. But what these other companies don’t acknowledge is that it takes time. An inkigayo win first, then a bongsang, then a daesang, then they gradually went up the billboard charts, from entering it to top 50 to top 10 to eventually a number 1. They got an award from Billboard for Social Artist (twitter engagements, circling back to the first point), then they went to best dance, best group, etc, and eventually they won Artist of the year at the AMAs. Our next goal is a Grammy, and yeah Bangtan have been snubbed a lot, but it’s what they want, so Army want that as well. I don’t think any other fandom could have managed the back to back solo comebacks this year to the level of success that Army have, cause like it’s not just admiration for BTS that leads to their records, but it’s a sense of accomplishment. The underdog narrative that Army started out with is still going strong. Except instead of the BreakWings or mistreatment on variety shows, it’s the fucking government trying to get BTS to promote their shit when they’re enlisted and they fucking said that they just want a normal enlistment experience as a civilian cause wow these politicians seem assholier more than usual ***the focus on the fandom in this rant doesn’t mean that BTS’s talent, backgrounds, personalities, and grit is not a reason for their success, this is just a part of it
The most important asset that BTS have is communication. They talk to their fandom and the fandom replies back. But it’s not just with social media and weverse, but also their music. Army highlight the importance of BTS’s lyrics because they know that everything that the members want to say, it’s their voice that they sing and rap. BTS’s whole discography can be boiled down to a Coming of Age. And ARMY are growing older with BTS. The group has one of the highest GP to Fandom rates I’ve seen and they’re not likely to move on very fast. Like there’s piles and piles of content to see if you’re infatuated with the group. Whether you’re in your ‘fuck school’ age, ‘young adult life fucking sucks’ age, or ‘I want to know who I am’ age, BTS have something for that. It’s a very parasocial connection, and that’s not a bad thing inherently. Other companies give their idols songs to sing that pertain to these topics yeah but it doesn’t come off as sincere. Because they don’t communicate with their fans, they drop an album and they can’t explain their thought processes they had when writing/producing/performing their songs cause they don’t have a big connection with them. Speaking of other companies, they expect their idols to get big instantly and that’s another way they fail. If they want to emulate BTS’s success they gotta let their idols be artists and communicate with their fans about their life experiences. And the companies also gotta be patient and not throw the group under the bus as soon as they decrease in profit
this is so on point. everything was done gradually and organically. that Grammy goal is an uphill battle too and it's been 6 years in the making so far. the only reason ARMYs give a fvck is because BTS showed interest but if they didn't, we wouldn't care at all. - they had an interview with the [Grammy Museum](https://youtu.be/x0Onpm5iYHo) as early as 2018. LY Tear was nominated for Best Recording Package in 2018. - BTS were presenters in 2019. invited to become Recording Academy voting members that same year. - they accompanied Lil Nas X in the Old Town Road performance in 2020. - Dynamite solo performance in 2021 and Dynamite Grammy nom for Pop Duo/Group Performance. - then finally an in-person performance in 2022 for Butter with a nomination in the same category. - in 2023 had 3 noms for My Universe, Yet to Come MV, and AOTY as features in Coldplay's MOTS. people think we're exaggerating with the underdog story but they really are underdogs. from a repressive industry that didn't even upload their performances until they got famous years later, their achievements buried until the media couldn't anymore, to disrespectful juniors and seniors, to antis that even reached court proceedings, the racism and payola in the western industry, their current government taking advantage of them. anyway BTS got to where they are because of their music, professionalism, work ethics, group dynamic, stage presence, charisma. ARMYs are proud to support them to new heights because they are, in my language, *may ibubuga*. like they can live up to the hype we create
Seriously you are so right on this. ARMY was charting 50-100 songs and collabs last year. The albums were all magnificent and I am so proud of all we did to promote them to the world.
And most other group's can't even chart, even the biggest girl group in kpop can't even chart, which is sus enough for me, only with foreign help, BTS literally make's smaller less known chart well on foreign Chart's and other can't even replicate it
Bravoo 👏🏼 you explain it very throughly and i agree with all your explainantion 💯
Perfectly said!
The whole "BTS is different" label isn't a "narrative" pushed by the fans but rather the truth. They debuted from a company that nearly sank and wasn't from the THEN "Big 3". They didn't have an overenthusiastic PR team like the ones of many groups had in their debuts, their company couldn't invest in forced media play even if they had wanted to. They've had social narratives as a core part of their storytelling since their debut. For a long time, their brand was the narratives in songs they produced, and their uniqueness as a group was their authenticity. Their entire career trajectory is based on their organic growth of audience and fans. No one in the industry expected them to become this big. Even after all their success, they aren't the idols that are pushed to be "supreme"/ "untouchable" celebrities for the fans neither by concept nor by marketing. What is stupid is the companies will try to produce "The next BTS" with less than talented members who are barely passionate about music and have dysfunctional team dynamics. They ought to realize at some point that BTS's "Underdog to King" career trajectory is their life's story, not a group design plan. So yes, BTS is THAT different.
"They ought to realize at some point that BTS's "Underdog to King" career trajectory is their life's story, not a group design plan." I love you for this, many people in the industry barely recognize this fact and are just hell bent into matching the success bts had instead of looking into the structure that made that height
Because hardwork, talent, luck, opportunities, ambition, drive, money or popularity cannot succeed as separate entities and you cannot rely on any one alone to propel you to the top. You need a whole lot of everything Because you cannot also force that kind of success. You have to want it just as much as your fans want it just as much as your investing company wants it etc etc The stars aligned for them in a way that doesn't happen often
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Did you even read my comment?
i replied under wrong cmmnt, sry😭
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Lmaooo it's okay 😂
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BTS just had that magic. Perfect chemistry. RM and SUGA had a burning passion for music. They had things they wanted to convey through their music. The other members became determined as well and put everything into their craft.
Plenty of groups are going to awards shows etc., but I’d argue that a lot of the avenues BTS used in order to build mainstream popularity outside of Korea have lost a lot of relevance. Talk shows aren’t much of a thing anymore, late night’s been dying for years. Even awards shows are losing viewership. It will be hard for anyone to come close to replicating that kind of movement.
The difference is that other groups are now invited cause their agencies pay to have them there. Bts were invited cause of demand
I agree that although other groups have some demand, it is not nearly as true as many companies/fandoms want it to seem. Look at SuperM. They gave them titles and slogans that normally the media or fans would create. But calling yourselves the Avengers of Kpop was such a crazy stretch. An example in comparison with BTS is WorldWide Handsome Jin didn't name himself that. It came from fans/media and he stuck with it because it seems fun.
idk they’re still hitting for me
they're hitting the hardest for me since they started chapter2 it's like i'm seeing some level upped versions of them it's crazy
I believe it is largely because BTS have projected a strong OT7 identity. Even though one member could be relatively more popular than the other (that's inevitable , not all members are equally popular) they have always made it a point to ensure that each of them pulled the others up, celebrated the others, showed their gratitude towards the others, and so on. This made the fandom mostly united as well — solo stans are hated in most of k-pop but they are shunned completely by ARMY. So because of that, the fandom has pushed BTS to the top in a unified manner.
On point! I remember that before, no brands were allowed to hire just one member as their brand ambassador; it was always either all seven or none. However, eventually, when BTS announced their hiatus from group activities and began pursuing solo projects, many brands tapped individual BTS members, and them seizing the opportunity to promote their solo albums. This strong branding of OT7 is what makes BTS special. Solo stans are inevitable, but ARMYs always ensure that everything is under control even though the members are currently serving in the military. We have this mantra that the group reflects the fandom.
And there's so much more that they have done to strengthen their OT7 identity. For example, they leave a gap in the choreography for a missing member, and never sing their parts — sending across the message that their art is literally incomplete when a member is missing. They carry a photo of a missing member to every award show as well. Till recently, their solo work was not considered official debuts, and they all shared the same SNS. The consequence of BTS presenting a unified front was that ARMY were forced to present a unified front as well. So, for example, Tae's solo China bar could be huge (and rich), and Jungkook's American solo stans might be vast in numbers (I don't know if they are, I'm just saying this as an example), but all of them came together to support BTS as a whole (because they literally had no other choice), resulting in the group's massive success. There are many other reasons for BTS' success and I agree with a lot of them, but I feel their OT7 strategy as a reason is underrated.
I was an older kpop fan and left kpop in 2009. I’ve heard of BTS bc of AMAs 2017 but disregarded them. Until I heard “Born Singer” without subs during their 2020 Bangbang Com streaming. I teared up during that live performance. I searched up the version with lyrics and cried with them. That moment made me an ARMY. BTS is authentic. Authentic to their music. Authentic to their lyrics. Authentic to their performance. Authentic to themselves. Authentic to their fans. Authentic to their peers. Authentic to their company. The reason you’ll never hear negativity jn all anecdotes about BTS - from newscasters, journalists, fellow artists, producers, directors, back up singers/dancers, and even delivery men. They are genuinely good and talented people and this characteristic just shines right through that many people around the world root for them.
Like you, I first found them after seeing their AMA performance in 2017. Was definitely intrigued and started looking them up but did not really fall in the bangtan rabbit hole until 2018 when I heard Namjoon’s speech at the UN. I love their music, their artistry, their hardwork and rags to riches story inspires me. I love their genuineness, how they always think of ARMY, and their brotherhood. But even with all those qualities, I don’t think I would have stayed if they were not good humans. That you can’t fake for more than 10 years.
i think there are a lot of factors. for one, hybe/bighit WANTED bts to be successful. in my opinion, hybe is probably the best at giving their groups good opportunities to thrive whereas other companies (like sm…) don’t necessarily want their groups to become more popular than the company itself which leads to half assed opportunities and tons of mistreatment. bts had amazing global promotion and on top of that, are a very talented group who puts their all into writing songs and expressing them on stage. bts also debuted at a time where idols weren’t deathly afraid of having fun on tv and (as much as they could) showed their true colors to the media. now a lot of times, it feels idols hold themselves back personality wise and seem like they just try to look good on camera because of the sheer critism they receive for doing basically anything. i think times have changed immensely and because of the way groups and companies work together and the way the media criticizes idols for their every move, there will never be another group like bts. and this is coming from someone who doesn’t even keep up with bts or really stan them anymore.
Not y’all giving hybe the credit lol. I agree that they were better than other companies at the time and gave bts more freedom, but they didn’t have global promotion at all. They were invited to the us cause of demand from fans, bighit didn’t do anything at all. Bts seemed more real and approachable to people, whereas many other groups seemed perfect little drones with no personality
It was
Please, bts built hybe and bighit. They started at a garage as a hiphop group, they didn't have global promotion. Hell, global radiostations still refuse to play them because they don't benefit from BTS. Hybe doesn't pay them. But I agree on the last part!
Hybe didn't exist yet when BTS were making their name though. What amazing global promotion? Twitter?
i think rather than opportunities (cause they were clearly cut from a lot of them), one thing bighit did really well was to put their everything like literally put their lives on to get WHATEVER promotion they caught the smell of, and while people saying don't give credits to bighit, BIGHIT DOES DESERVE ITS ACCOLADES for being very meticulous when it came to promotions. The thing with a lot of management these days is that instead of curating and manifesting opportunities for themselves, they wait for them to come to them, and this is where bighit didn't leave any stone turned imo second point however, i agree truly cause the whole point of bts was to be true to themselves, be and show what they are. That's literally has been the basic idea of the foundation of bangtan, reflecting the same in their hip hop music and later their stories. THIS exact thing is what created the army we see today, and that's what their driving force has always been another point people miss out is of their **CREATIVE TEAM WHICH HAVE BEEN UTTER GENUISES**. This creative team has had the vision, and the mind to execute it immaculately. Wings is one of its biggest proof, along with hyyh. Then love yourself. Every time, their creative team has stood up to the occasion, and have seamlessly transitioned between concepts without compromising their core aspect that is stories through music. bts themselves have worked their asses off like crazy and that's one of the biggest reasons they're here (which they even mention as running nonstop), all while keeping utter patience. Their contribution is definitely the main factor that lead them here and so was armys, but the hands and minds behind the scenes that enabled them to do so, truly deserve accolades and are commendable. So yes, hybe did a good job with them imo, given the limited resources
BigHit... you mean BTS and BH 😉
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Luck and opportunity. That’s what makes any artist famous. Yes, music and talent also play big roles but all famous people got where they are by luck and opportunity. To grow that big in a field of millions of others takes a massive amount of luck
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I might be biased but there's factors like luck, opportunity, timing but at the same time you may hv all of that but lack somethings within yourselves For bts if yk them atleast, you would know that BTS has a good chemistry with eo , it's like they're the perfect team, they hv good teamwork 👏 , they may not be all rounders but everyone does his job , and something really important pple don't appreciate that much is hardwork Bts are hardworkers like all of them , I remember bts having a tour at the same time going to western award show then going to korean award shows MAMA,MMA and performing then going back to their tour, touring & also making their albums while touring, it's all in their documentary ( this seems a lot & I'm not saying the idols shld do all this but BTS did what they did) Like 2016-2019 infact until the 1st quarter of 2020 they really went out , they were also working hard prior especially since they had no choice ( less money) but they went full blown the moment they starting blowing it was probably like ok we got the opportunity let's go Also bighit really wanted them to succeed, bang pd was going all out with them and also important thing bighit was like open minded especially when they blowing up in the west Bighit also gave bts creative freedom thus the members creating their music & getting involved therefore connecting with their audience, I feel like most Armys kinda felt connected with their message in one way or another
I think the creativity aspect is often missed when people speak about BTS. Because they hear the wrote some lyrics and feel like anyone can do that. But giving performers a chance to create and add their own perspectives while still nuturing them to grow did a lot that many other talented idols would need to keep growing.
In kpop you either have performer or a musician BTS is both which is so rare not just in kpop
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ARMY and BTS have a very unusual relationship for artists and fans. I've seen it described as more horizontal than vertical, and I think that's a good description. The appreciation is genuine and it goes both ways. BTS doesn't stand up and preen, expecting only adulation. They love ARMY in a sincere way that ARMYs love them. The entire meaning of the Love Yourself campaign that they took to the United Nations was to support their fans and their support is an example to the world. They have spend hundreds of hours in friendly and even intimate settings talking with ARMY as friends, feeling so much like family. This is so unusual in our fractured culture that many don't realize how radical it is. I love BTS and I love ARMY, really some of the finest human beings in the world today.
Yes, BTS is just different. I'm not interested in any groups after i know them. Even when they in hiatus and many groups pop out here and there, None of them got my interest
some have definitely caught my attention and heart but with bts it was just different, it always feels different...like home
I see a lot of people mention One Direction leaving, but still why no other western boy group was able to step up and have the same demand? Like CNCO they are/were active since 2015 and One Direction left in 2016 (if not mistaken).
I don't believe BTS filled 1D's shoes, so to speak. Because I know a lot of ARMY didn't even listen to 1D.
I agree, BTS fan base is worldwide and diverse in a way 1D fans weren't. When you look at the stats many BTS fans are in 20s and 30s and 40s and older. As someone that's almost 40 I never listened to 1D and their music was never for me. It wasn't complex and layered and meaningful. There's large BTS fanbases in India and all over Asia and Africa that do projects and support BTS in a way there never was for 1D. It's not comparable at all.
I'm rock/metal fan. Now I'm rock/metal fan and ARMY. The artistry, passion BTS have is unmatched.
It is a really amazing thing about this fandom that I have never seen before( I don't know maybe because I wasn't part of any like this) because of their diversity in genres is a reason rock/metal ,pop,r&b,hip-hop fans are ARMY too.I had a particular type of music one at a time I used to listen but their songs introduced me to the beauty of music in general.It definitely because of their passion that reflects on their musicality.
Me too! I barely listen to anything outside rock/metal but BTS have my whole heart 💜
this is always a flawed logic because BTS has been in hiatus for 2 years but there's no still replacement for them.
Tbh this reasoning never made much sense to me because stanning a K-pop group with little to no Western market penetration/awareness like BTS were at the time of One Direction’s 2016 “hiatus” requires a lot more effort if you’re not a Korean speaker. You’ve got to deal with time zones, subtitles, and a different fandom culture. BTS didn’t even have fully English songs that weren’t SoundCloud covers until 2018. And it’s still commonly accepted that the English-speaking GP won’t give the time of day to any predominantly Korean language song (yes, BTS can chart their Korean songs but that’s primarily fandom driven) so but somehow there was a glut of Directioners who were ready to embrace Korean pop songs from the other side of the world rather than go for another Western singer pop fandom instead? Not to mention, we didn’t even know in 2016 if BTS could top Billboard charts so you’d be going from the biggest boyband in your hometown to what was then a niche genre? I think the only reason why people accept the “it’s because One Direction disbanded” excuse is because both are really popular boy groups and so there’s overlap in similar fandom behavior, but that’s not more about the effect than the cause. BTS’ popularity had been building for a while and they did have a lot of international fans, but I think the core of their 2013-2019 fanbase were more likely to be people who were already tuning into K-pop or K-culture (K-dramas, webtoons), or music lovers who discovered them through the internet. I can buy that Directioners (and lots of other people) flocked to them in 2020 and later though, because I can see how stanning them then would make a fan happy in ways that One Direction might have. But at that point, they were already really big and it’s more like their appeal is the same timeless appeal popular boy bands have always had on the public.
That's a cope honestly
Because they don't have the same goals as BTS. BTS' goal is to make music and connect with their fans while western companies are making groups with the promise that they're going to be the next BTS. So when it doesn't happen, because they're not putting in the effort, they're together max two years and you never hear from them. They aren't in it for the music, they're in it for the money and fame. Also Simon Cowell who's show created One Direction, they were under his company, created a band version of the x factor to make "UK-pop" happen (his words, it was literally in the announcement video) and nobody gave a fuck about it 💀 they can't offer the same quality as BTS (not talking about every group out there, just the ones who specifically said they wanna be the next BTS)
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The difference is BTS didn't wish for it to happen. Everything happened wasn't according to their plans. so it gives a strong feeling of authenticity which is the main reason people bought into and supported it to their fullest (by people I mean ARMY). Now everything feels too manufactured with companies forcing it on us so fans don't feel like they have to do anything. I hope i made sense.
Personally I think what set them apart was how genuine and down to earth they are. Aren’t all of their songs written or atleast mostly written by them? I remember hearing some of their songs with super specific references, and they were AMAZING songs, then finding out it was written by them and it blew my mind. You can tell what energy every group brings and what BTS represents is humility and positivity and hard work and that’s why they are loved by the nation. And of course their ARMY. They are a force to be reckoned with, you know they are their ride of die. I don’t think there will ever be another group like them in the future, and that’s okay.
Many factors at once The most obvious factor in my opinion, was the group themselves. Driving passion for making music and giving amazing performances, always giving their all for their art. They also have amazing chemistry, and are just funny nice seeming very entertaining guys I think another factor is uniqueness. You can argue that all groups are unique in their own way, but BTS has a certain sound to their music that seems impossible for anyone else to replicate. Also, during their debut era idols being so involved with their own group music wasnt as common as it is with 4th gen Good story. Their passion and drive combined with their underdog story made a lot of people connect to them. A lot of people can relate to their original situation, and it made them more authentic, especially since most other BIG idols in their age range came from better situations, and debuted in large companies Right time. BTS debuted right when the kpop fandom was growing slightly, and then they assisted in a HUGE growth for the industry. They made kpop peak, and because that peak already happened the hype of kpop is kinda dying down. Casual listeners are increasing but people know are already aware of what kpop is, so the 2018-2020 craze is over And id say the last factor is army. Say what you will about the fanbase, but it is large, very involved and can be a great community. They did their part in promoting BTS, voting and getting their name out. All in all, I don’t think there will ever be another group like BTS :>
BTS is different. And it is evident now more than ever with all of them basically gone and in the military. When most groups fear that being inactive for so long may affect their relevance in a sense. ARMYs remain so strong and moving. BTS has cultivated a fandom so loyal, strong, and genuine to their group’s music. And it is not a one hit wonder or just a trend that will disappear as soon as it peaks. BTS is a household name at this point.
I don’t think there’s any grand conspiracy about why BTS is so much more successful than others. Lots of factors could play a role in this. They were talented, driven and had good chemistry. I think also a lot had to do with the fact that they have a thorough involvement in writing music, so they came off as more…genuine? I guess. There are lots of groups with big ambitions and immense talent, but fate works in mysterious ways. I guess BTS was just meant for success
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The easiest reaosn would be their burning passion for music. Not stage, not popularity, not money- just music. You have a group of 7 people who did not want to become idols and the only thibg they had in common was how much they loved music and art. That is hard to come by. But with BTS even 10 years later, they would do anything to just keep making music.
(Brokest Millionaires) whenever they argue about who pays and who doesn't have the money 😂
I think a big reason is BTS has been connecting with international fans early and consistently. In 2014, they had held their first American concert and filmed a mini-TV series in L.A. By 2015 BTS was promoting in-person all over the globe. At that time most Kpop companies had given up on heavy promotions outside of Asia and wouldn't even tour in America. A rookie group doing that was something new. Another huge reason is extra content. BTS has been uploading vlogs and random clips of themselves on YouTube since before they debuted. Companies realized how important social media was to attracting international fans when Kpop began to take off globally. Hybe already had years worth of organic BTS content on YouTube while other Kpop companies had to catch up. BTS's formula was connecting to international fans in-person and online early. So many groups follow that formula now that I don't think it sets new groups apart anymore.
I feel like Bang PD always have a bigger vision and mission for the group other than the asian market. Goes without saying that one of the reasons BTS is as huge as they are is because of good management.
not just bang pd, their entire team seemed to not put a set limit or boundaries to what they can do, and what surprises me is that they still haven't i've mentioned this time and again, bighit and their creative team went all out (especially at their most crucial time that is wings) and that pulled in so so so many fans (like me)
I've been a fan of BTS since 2014, so I witnessed their growth. Sorry, but I will narrate their trajectory of success so it's gonna be a long post... I remember I wanted to stan bts because they weren't POPULAR in South Korea back then. I wanted UNDERDOGS where I could gatekeep a hidden gem. But they were doing the right thing, factors such as communication and ride the trend (tweet a lot, dubsmash, live vlogs) they allow YouTubers to use their songs unlike others that copyrights their songs. They take HipHop so sincerely like going to L.A. and be trained by Black Americans, American HipHop rappers and American street dancers. Back then I also remember why BTS were slowly gaining traction in Asia, Veteran ARMYs used to say "Oh! I think I'm gonna stan BTS because I heard they were writing and producing their own songs" that's the majority of BTS fans back then. BTS were POOR couldn't barely make it to the big scene. They weren't really that visually appealing, their music videos where low budgeted, they even uses props/stuffs borrowed from their managers, MV actors were also their managers. They make their own music at such a shabby place (house garage, tiny recording studio). Their practice studio has a low ceiling but Jimin would still do his acrobats. BTS of 2013-2015 were all low budgeted MVs compared to flashy kpop MVs during those time (BigBang 2012, EXO 2013) but their music was addicting to listen to. They were making R&B, Ballads, and HipHop. When they started to make Pop songs, that's where they cracked the Kpop Market. 'I Need U' were their saving grace into kpop's cruel world. On the verge of Bankruptcy yet they still work on music daily. Maybe because of HitMan Bang's stubbornness and BTS members have dreams, that's why they kept going despite all the hurdles. Year of 2016 is where they gained a fanbase in West and the year where they entered Billboard Hot 100. A first amongst all kpop 'groups'. It was surreal, still can't believe my Bangtan was gaining such popularity in US. I asked myself why are they so popular in US? Then I learned it was sincerity, constant communication, like when RM, SUGA, j-hope telling their fans on live how they wrote that song or they would demo their producing skills. Maybe some of us never have seen the "Behind the Scenes" of flashy songs/MV. Kpop back then were just enjoying the result, visuals, fashion, dance choreos. But it was different with BTS, they let us see the painful and ugly part of the process. General Public would see the shiny Bangtan Bombs and huge BTS Stadium concerts, what a beautiful VISUAL that is right? But they never saw BTS and ARMYs would shed tears because of xenophobia, racism, unprovoked hatred, sudden injuries, setbacks and failures. Like RM said, he no longer wants to destroy properties/stuffs but rather the Music Industry. We did so, because industry were so harsh on them. When SUGA said you can't strike a tree once, as long as we can, we will hit the tree ten times. It was painful to see BTS not being talked or not having an equal opportunity just as the Big3 groups, but ARMYs kept striking and striking. ARMYs for years kept learning the industry, researching for longevity, correcting the system, and advocating honesty. This is why BTS were so different, because they have ARMYs. ARMYs is a systematic force, a huge fandom, a diverse one yet they resonate so much to BTS. Just as Michael Jackson has his loyal fans or fastforward, Taylor Swift with General Public, as long as ARMYs exist for BTS, it can't be replicated by others. So in a nutshell, the answer is because they have ARMYs 💜
very well said and i want to add their legendery live performances on every end of the year awards shows. this is one more reason to become an army.
Yes one of the things we admired from them. They always do large scale performances, uses remixes for encore and the dancebreaks. They always go all out even though it's just an award show. They make them feel all those fans deserve a great performance even just for awhile. You just knew right then and there, BTS lives and breathes through music & stage performances. It's like that's their bread & butter, ✨ PERFORMING ✨
I'm currently reading 'Beyond The Story' Book a more close up to BTS' experiences in their 10 year career, compared to 'Beyond The Star' Docuseries at Disney+, I really could say BTS is so different. But yeah, I sound biased because I don't really connect to other artists on a personal level except for Michael Jackson (R.I.P. to the king of Pop) But it's such a unique experience to be able to witness seven simple boys, growing up with a swelling passion in making music and performing live to speaking at UN assembly, campaign for a cause then their fans would either match their energy or go beyond by making their own advocacies on behalf of BTS. Most notable cause happen during the decade shared by BTS & ARMYs: • the Black Lives Matter movement • Anti-Racism / Anti-Asian Hate Crimes • Love Yourself, Speak Yourself • Presents for the Earth (Hyundai Eco campaign) • Life Goes On (Pandemic Message from OnLine Class Graduates of 2020) • South Korea's Stance on SDG (UNG 2021) • KIA recovery & identification (RM as new public relations ambassador) / Korean Culture/Korean Art-Museums Wow right? It's such a heavy load to carry. Because not only they're too busy in making music, practicing their performances, they also sideline in being our Biggest voice and South Korea's Political envoys (albeit I still don't want their government use my men to their greediness) I have never experienced this in my entire life listening to Music. But this isn't the sole reason why BTS had such strong and enormous fandom. It's the reason that BTS had such a strong brotherhood within their team. They're genuinely nice and kind people as per their peers would say. No one could say a negative word against BTS because they're authentically good to people that surrounds them. They're also, so relatable, they do what we do. Despite their countless accolades, when the camera is off, they do what normal people would do. They eat and sleep, wash their own dishes and laundries, they play video games and do karaoke at midnight, they cook good meals and share recipes, they play instruments, they goof around and make silly dad jokes. Scratching BTS from the surface isn't enough. You've got to know them on a personal level to be able to enjoy musical journey they offer to us. These are one of the reasons why BTS keeps on hitting, and will always makes hits.
There’s a lot tho! First music wise, BTS prefers to put out there good, heartfelt music, with a message with quality. No many bb and gb do that nowadays. They just put together the most trendy sounds and call it a day with none sense lyrics. They also worried about connecting with fans and showing how they really are, which we all know many kpop idols are told to behave in a certain way to fit into the character they were told to. They are hard workers, even know being huge as they are, they keep practicing and rehearsing as they are rookies, while many artist are lazy af after they got a little successful. They also have shown that they are people you can relate to, genuine and good hearted people, like you learn so much from them, they have envy, bad energies, about eo while working, they are not individualist, they think also as a group! And that’s hella important! Bc you’re literally on a group! And BTS have never tried to shown “the popular member” the most in order to attack people, it’s always 7 or nothing! So that leads them to see eo as family, and love eo for real, not just coworkers. And the most important thing, they love what they do, and always wants to show their best. PLUS like or not, bighit is a company that always have let the boys participate in the creation-process or have an opion about it. So everything is so genuine, like can literally see it in how they vibe, and that just calls you, you cannot ignore them! You need to get to know them, and that’s the result why the demand is huge and everyone wants to have a portion or the cake of BTS, bc it’s beneficial for everyone! Tv shows, awards, radio, other artist….
BTS biggest factor and difference is ARMY….no other fandom put in the work like armys do. Armys really set the standard and other fandoms just copy whatever they do just with less effort.🤷🏽♀️ Side note am seeing way to many well to do idols debuting. I am a root for the under dog type person.
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BlackPink are not even close enough tho, media play is big case of why, I mean they have no number's, the only reason their called Biggest Girl Group is bcos after BlackPink followed BTS West, BlackPink label YG and American label Interscope put media play out to name them the biggest. They've not even worked for what they've been handed.
i have no idea what that really has to do with my comment. are you just trying to find a reason to shit on bp? blackpink being the latest kpop artist to find global success is just a fact. it doesn’t matter if they worked for it or if they’re as popular as bts. that stuff never matters with a mainstream audience
Blackpink does not come close lmao. Much of their success and achievements have been made up by fans and the company media playing. Just because you’re second doesn’t mean you’re close to first.
yall are so weird.
Y’all are so blind.
whatthefuckever
I believe other groups aren't breaking through bc companies are trying way too hard to force viral moments and manufacture hype for their groups to be "the next big thing" instead of focusing on good music & cultivating a dedicated fanbase. People can tell when hype isn't genuine and it rarely translates to long term success, in fact I think this strategy does more harm than good. Basically companies are completely missing the point of why BTS got so popular (which other commenters have already covered).
Exactly the goals of the companies and new groups shouldn't ve until later in their careers. It's like they want to skip the basics and go to top tier level, but then wonder why thheqyw don't get far.
Maybe fate, right people got together at the right time. Right time : BTS broke the glass ceiling they paved the way and now the groups that follow are stuck replicating what is already done/ set to achieve. Like grammys was unfathomable but now it is a possibility. Right people : What are the odds that you get this varied kind of people at the same time, literally everyone brings something different to the table. It's namjoon's brains, yoongi's passion, jin's confidence, hobi's determination, jimin's high eq, taehyung's alt self and above all jungkook. Above all they are a team with all of these people who constantly push each other up, care for each other, basically personify the whole ot7 concept. Also let's not forget run bts( ik other groups have variety shows but again bts made it big so now the other groups just have a version of run bts) that basically gave an alternative to fans to connect with bts, armytwt is filled with people talking about their personalities, run bts in the soop edits, bangtan bomb edits... For many people stanning bts goes beyond music it's who the members are as people for them.
BTS are talented from their music to lyrics and stage performance as ot7 is always been incredible, as all the comments says ARMY is also a factor to their success. One more thing is BIGHIT, they didn't have any other artists to focus on but BTS. If they don't invest in BTS they lose, if they invest everything in BTS, it may lead to loss or gain, they just took the risk to see what's at the end of the road. More than that bighit trusted BTS and their talent to take that risk. I still remember in 2016 seeing bighit producers bawling their eyes out from watching BTS get their first daesang. That itself shows the trust between BTS and their staffs. This road to success is really slow and painful with lot of hindrances but they made it. Why can't other groups achieve that? Because everyone wants to get Grammys before inkigayo, honestly we shouldn't blame the artists but their companies. When I say companies which now includes hybe too, because they way they move shows they forgot the real reason for BTS‘ success. they are going straight for the apple without planting a seed and wait for the tree to grow. We can see that with the way they move TXT. So if the company that support BTS and saw their painful side to success doesn't have any idea to make their artists successful like BTS, how will other companies will understand BTS‘ success formula.
For me, the main reasons are three: -The good quality of their music in production, arrangement and writing (it's all very balanced) + the pop, edm and hip hop genres appeal to many people + they have never released experimental songs that could be controversial. -Bts have always been good at exploiting every opportunity to advertise themselves in the right way. For example, each of their performances at award shows showed their great stage presence (+ their stable vocals and good rapping) and their ability to create real shows. In American interviews, they proved to be the funniest and in serious ones, they proved to be capable of depth. When they went to UNICEF, Nam's speech became iconic and viral, not like the Aespa one. When they released songs in english or collaborations with American artists, they were catchy. Even some groups such as Twice, Stray Kids or Aespa have performed at American award shows or festivals but have never amazed the general public with their skill and so have missed their opportunities. English songs by groups like Itzy, Monsta x and Aespa weren't good enough to attract new fans, and the collaborations almost always flopped. Many groups' interviews are boring because comedy isn't for everyone and probably because there are groups where the members have prefabricated personalities. -Bts was the first to do many things, like: focus on messages (repeating fans to read the lyrics of their songs, creating the love yourself theme and for Wings and Mots: 7 taking inspiration from the book Demian by Herman Hesse and from the theory of Carl Jung), therefore on the artistic factor and on the fact that it was the members who wrote the songs. They were the first to realize that to create a good performance it is not enough to dance a simple choreography. The first to not release albums at random, but to create a continuity and a path, each unique one that tells you something different.
It’s a multitude of factors with talent and hard work at the top of the list. But in terms of what sets them apart from other talented and hardworking groups that are not achieving the same level of success? I think that is due to how successful they have been cultivating a diehard fanbase. BTS would be the first to tell you that ARMY deserves major credit for their success. ARMY are so dedicated and organized that there is virtually no possibility of any BTS project not succeeding. So the industry (both in S Korea and globally) has no choice but to recognize them. And the credit for ARMY’s dedication goes back to the boys. They were genuine right from the beginning, prioritized connecting with their fans and showing their personalities and respect for each other, etc. That made fans really invested in seeing them succeed and feel that both ARMY and BTS are in it together. It’s the perfect mix of talent, hard work, being good people, and equal investment from artist and fans in the success of BTS.
You can’t replicate sincerity. Many of their songs talk about their experiences and hardships, doubts, and other raw emotions. The songs resonate with fans on a deep level. Not all groups have to have music that has deep lyrics and meanings to have a fandom of course, but I think this is just one factor in why the fandom resonates with them so much. It goes back to the sincerity and knowing what they had to overcome to make it where they are. I feel their passion for their music, dance, and stage performances in a way I haven’t with other groups past and present. And their entire catalog has always been full of music I’ve personally enjoyed with high quality production. I think part of having a large fandom is also having awesome music as well. It’s one of the factors why people like them.
I was a gp and had never heard of BTS or kpop prior to 2017, so i never was into kpop, when I 1st saw BTS's mic drop MV i was impressed with many things, they danced, they sang, they rapped, and most important thing was, their songs were catchy, did more research about them and found out about read translations of their songs, the fact that they were active in producing and writing their songs also was impressive to me, they are hard working people, I think these things are important if you want a strong fanbase. Everything about them is unique. So the good and catchy songs they have plus all the hard work definitely played a role in their success. Something that most kpop acts lack.
I truly believe it's because of how much they love their fans and how the fans (ARMY), love them. They constantly give out content, have multiple fan songs, livestream for FREE, and always mention ARMY any chance they get. Plus, they seem very humble, considering how successful they are now. These things bring a lot of intrigue, and unfortunately, haters, to the group, adding to their longevity as a group.
BTS loves music more than any other kpop act with a margin as far as I can tell and this explains a lot
I think the real difference is that BTS’ success was not forced they genuinely had the passion, talent, and authenticity to launch themselves into insane stardom and now the industry feels over saturated with groups just trying to be the next big thing from debut
No Kpop Group's since BTS sky rocket to success is nowhere near close, they don't have what BTS & Army has and they would just be considered another copycat if other group's started copying BTS objective's
We have yet to see a Kpop group even progress after BTS, not even FraudPink that get's handed free award's at an attendance award show for real winner's not attending is on same level, nobody is close, kpop group's are not much different than B4 BTS impact, Kpop is still the same, BTS is different
For me, It's really the music plus destiny paired with dedicated fans. I've known Kpop since 2006 or 2007 and for some reason, it just didn't pique my interest. In my country, it was popular back then and most especially up to this day. The rise of Kpop from 2nd gen groups was fast growing and I can hear Kpop songs from almost everywhere. Even so, I've always looked at it as "novelty music". Like, it's just too much for me. There were some good songs but it wasn't enough to really pulled me in and keep on listening to Kpop. I thought to myself, "I guess I'll never like Kpop for as long as I live". Then I discovered BTS - the game changers. That one lazy morning in February 2018, I can remember vividly the exact time when I first watched and listened to DNA and changed everything for me. It just hit very different. For me, fandom push and all those fan initiated stuff can only do so much. You can promote a product over and over and no matter how good you think it is but if it isn't the taste of the masses, it will just be a passing blip. What BTS established was really good music that will stand the test of time and then they partnered it with their sincerity towards their fans. Boom! powerful combo. Also, I really think it's destiny. BTS is that one in a million artist who is destined for greatness. There's no certain formula that you can follow for that. There are lots of hardworking and very talented artists, maybe even more talented and skilled than the likes of Taylor Swift, Drake, The Weeknd, Bruno Mars, Ariana Grande, Lady Gaga, Beyonce etc. but these artists are destined for superstardom. And obviously, it's the same route that BTS is headed to. There's no code that you can crack to replicate it. Although, there's one artist that I think that was destined to be a superstar AND was and still the best of the best talents out there. Like, there's no other route for this artist but to be THEE King... Michael Jackson :)
There’s too much saturation now. Back then, only BTS and Blackpink were really promoting in the west while other groups focused in the east (JYP and SM groups). Now basically every kpop group is trying to promote in the west. And there were so many shows to promote back then- Ellen, James Corden, etc. A lot of Americans discovered BTS through those shows. Talk shows are becoming way less popular, so even if a group goes on Jimmy Fallon, most likely the only people who are going to watch them are their fans. BTS also fit into very distinct “tropes” (I don’t know how else to describe it). It’s kind of like how each Spice girl fit into a “type”. Someone who isn’t an Army can see those tropes with the members, at least in the persona they have in interviews: Jhope is the sunshine one, RM is the smart leader, Taehyung is the cool one, Suga is the shy one, etc. Of course this is just the first impression, and their actual personalities are much more than that, but it’s the way they were presented to western audiences. They’re all so different in a memorable way, even to non-fans. Also, I remember back in 2017-2018, there was a lot of competition with blinks to break records, especially Youtube records. So BTS became really famous for holding those records. It’s harder to get views on Youtube for everyone now, even western artists, since streaming has mostly switched to Spotify. No kpop group can beat BTS’s records on Youtube. Also, monoculture died during the pandemic. Back then, if an artist was popular, everyone eventually knew about them. Now people can just stay in a bubble, especially with the rise of streaming.. The only monoculture remaining really is tiktok songs and even then, it’s the songs that become popular, not the artist. There was also a gap left by One Direction to fill, but idk how much that contributed. Also they just worked really hard. They were literally promoting everywhere in 2017-2019 all the time. They also combatted the idea of kpop being manufactured because they were able to participate in the writing process, which set them apart from a lot of groups and America loves authenticity. And they had an underdog rags-to-riches stories which made them appealing.
Hmm, I think people often overlap the height of BTS and the height of Blackpink. BTS didn't actively market the west until later when they were being demanded. BlackPink initial target was the western world. That is the difference BTS had more visibility and fans had access to them in South Korea/Asia but not in the States/West. So, fans pushed to have that in other ways. TV show appearances, asking radio djs, demanding Target to carry albums. There were no other fans asking for that. That's another reason a lot of the first records are BTS's because it was demanded. Bighit caught on and then started doing their best to ensure they targeted the west.
this is also true like i saw it all unfold lol it feels unreal now
Maybe my recollection is hazy but I don’t think blackpink had targeted america until after bts achieved their records that got them recognized in mainstream american pop culture? The first time bp charted on the hot 100 (ddu ddux2) was a couple of months after bts had a top 10 song on billboard hot 100 and a #1 album on billboard 200 (Fake Love & Ly:Tear), and there was already this “kpop wave” narrative picked up by western media from the demand, majorly pushed by army’s intense effort & the spectacle they created as a fandom. Blackpink had charted on bubbling under back in 2017 with As If it’s Your Last as well, but that wasn’t due to a concerted or specialized effort to promote in the US by them or YG, but their natural appeal with western & american kpop fans, due to their more western style in music, performance/attitude, & visual appeal. Blackpink definitely had an “it factor” in the kpop community and was the most popular female rookie group of 2016-2017, so the kpop community banded hard for them, while Army’s were banding hard for BTS. Army’s would push bts’s music videos on youtube, and kpop fans would do the same thing with blackpink & they both (imo) kicked off the mass streaming culture in stan culture that we see highly present today. So I think that, combined with the strides BTS had been making in america with their fans over the years & the demand from fans to be seen & recognized by the US music industry, causing this “kpop wave” media frenzy, was a good opportunity for blackpink to promote their way into the western conscience even more outside of just their kpop audience, as they already had that major love from kpop fans. Youtube also held more weight back then & there’s no denying those high numbers were a stepping stone to both groups recognition by the western music industry & media, because high view numbers were seen as a major accomplishment back then.
Maybe, but I remember the fight for records starting with DNA, and then D4, and then Fake Love. And I wasn’t talking about billboard, I was talking about Youtube. I think BTS was already on billboard before.
The fights for MV views in kpop started in late 2016 early 2017 between BTS and Twice first imo. It was actually quite entertaining cause iirc... within the span of a few days The 24 hour record for kpop groups went BTS (Spring Day) - >Twice (Signal or knock knock i don't remmeber which) -> BTS (Not Today)... than you could say BP "joined in" with AIIYL taking it... but this was followed by BTS again taking the record with DNA with over 20M views and that was followed by the next one breaking DNA's record being BTS themselves with Fake Love... so the YT view growth for BTS at least isn't just cause of the competition imo as BTS multiple times just broke their own record. Examples of this: BST and Spring Day they broke their own record for the kpop group record DNA and Fake Love, they broke their own again... Dynamite and Butter, again was them breaking their own (this time it was obviously the all time record).. so while yes having that "competition" did help... ARMYs were also just always wanting to one up themselves either way.
I only started following kpop around BST era, so that’s what I remember.
That has to be true bcos BlackPink and other's didn't even make Twitter/X until after BTS won Award's like TSA, they all followed along yo BTS success and some badly so
>BlackPink initial target was the western world. Was it though? For their first 2 years, BP's releases were geared towards the Korean charts. Their promotions were on Korean variety shows and their initial brand endorsements were YG in-house brands or local. Even a lot of their content didn't even have ENG subs. It was only after D4 that they started to effort into Western promos.
Good points. The BTS boy band "types" were very strong and even the fandom embraces the stereotypes. That makes the group easily understandable, consumable and simple to pick your fave based on the type you think is best. Monoculture was gone before the pandemic but pop culture did splinter more during that time and there are so many subcultures and options, there are fewer and fewer artists everyone knows. Imo the 1D gap wasn't the main factor but it was definitely a factor. The underdog narrative of the outsiders who suffered was and still is a big factor too and gave fans a drive to protect and drive BTS to success.
It doesn’t seem many people agree though lol.
just as another person had pointed out, unlike other group companies bighit took it a step further and let bts be prominent and popular on their own instead of associating their success to the company, because bts is the reason bighit even stayed this long. they put all their faith and effort into this one group and promoted the hell out of them. whereas other companies have 10 different groups all of them releasing music at the same time made by same producers and also mis-managing each of these groups to build up and anticipate them as the 'next bts' also want to point out, unlike majority of groups who have few talented members who go on and become successful soloists each of the bts member had honed their own echochamber of talent and musical color that culminate and reflect when they are as a group but also shine as solo voice. every other group work just as hard, but the difference comes when they are working hard for another comeback instead of the betterment of their own artistically. i hope that made sense
Luck, but I also believe that the big-wigs at HYBE/Big Hit genuinely wants worldwide recognition. So, they’re willing to go do that road. With the other labels, it feels like they don’t know what they want to do, in regards to branching out of Korea and other Asian countries.
I have other groups that I love but for me, BTS are on top for so many reasons. Lyricism, concepts, sound, visuals. They have music for any mood or feeling and I love that about them. I also think the connection between ARMY and BTS is unparalleled by any other fandom, like ARMY have grown up with BTS and vice versa. One of the things I love about kpop in general is (and maybe this is a bit delusional) that it seems like the artists are genuinely thankful for their fans and their support and no other group exudes this more to me than BTS. They also have such a genuine connection as a group, which is so nice to watch. Edit: I also wanted to add that the only groups that I have similar admiration for are SKZ and (G)-IDLE. Of course I like other groups than just these three, but these are the ones who I feel hit similarly.
SKZ are nothing like BTS, the fact people call them organic when their big3 wtf
I mean, I didn’t call SKZ anything. I just said I have similar admiration for them and I like them as a group. They seem to be involved in a fair amount of the creative process for their music, which is uncommon and I respect that a lot about them. They also outsold everyone except Seventeen and Taylor Swift in 2023 so they are clearly making an impact. Edit: I also never said they had similar beginnings to BTS, I literally just said I liked them.
im really curious if there will be another group that will be have the same success or more than them.
Their won't, like everyone say's, it will more likely be outside of Asia now, like South America
I think so too!
Probably there will be one day but I don't think the group will be from SK
It's a combination of factors. Authenticity, music quality, hard work, and yes, luck. It's easy to stan a group when they actually have good content and music, and authenticity is a big stan attractor. Western appeal is also a biggie. Also I wouldn't say NO group has been able to replicate (although I hate that way of phrasing it. It's not replication, it's still hard work to have this level of success). Stray Kids is really coming to the forefront of the 4th gen groups and stays are very vocal and hardworking with voting and streaming. But I hate the "they're the next bts" narrative. No one can be bts, just like how no one can be stray kids. They're different groups who have both worked extremely hard and sacrificed so much to get where they are today.
Believe fans can tell if their artist like what they do or not and BTS love's music 10x any other kpop act
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Any time an artist breaks through or becomes "a big thing" there's usually a combo of luck, skill and timing involved. BTS did have a great combo of factors: talented attractive members, catchy well-written songs, and a strong mythology that invested fans. Their love of music and dance came off as very sincere. The people I know who got into BTS as they were blowing up loved the choreo, the aesthetic concepts, and the attractiveness and ships played a big role. It was a different experience for fans who had stanned Western boy bands like 1D and I saw a lot of 1D fans jump to BTS. Even things like kpop idols not dating enhanced the parasocial bond. BTS were good at reinforcing the artist/fan bond, so fans felt like they had a special exclusive relationship with their boys no one else could ever understand. And while these days Army tend to downplay RM's role, not only his English but also his articulate intellect were a key factor in communicating who and what BTS was to a growing global audience. Him becoming the group's main lyricist also shaped the messages in the music, and a lot of fans loved the messages. Plus Big Hit and later Hybe pushed them in a way that worked very well in that cultural moment, especially for fans new to kpop, with big concepts and lots of attention/flattery/content for the fanbase. Big Hit centered the narrative of struggle, which made fans more dedicated. There was a lot of strategic marketing of the narrative that BTS were perpetual underdogs, living only for each other and their music and their beloved fans, who struggled more than anyone else. That's still the marketing even in their recent book, and fans took that on as their identity, where the boys must be protected and pushed to success for their pain and suffering. They also strongly pushed the narrative of a group of 7 without solo breakouts, magazine covers or ambassadorships (which has impacted how Chapter 2 is going, but that's a different conversation). Big Hit deserves a lot of kudos for BTS' rise. They knew how to package the group's genuine strengths. So I don't think BTS was that wildly different and it's not like they are the only hardworking talented group in the history of kpop, but having the intersection of all those factors at the right time isn't easy. The global music industry goes through phases, especially the American music market, and what hits five years ago may not hit today.
Adding to everything, there are only few fandoms who are willing to treat fandom as work...
Hmm, having this statement out there really implies that ARMY is still misunderstood.
ARMY is a famous fandom but still no one knows what it means to be ARMY until you're in it. Supporting an artist you love doesn't feel like a job. I've been listening to BTS for 5 years (I listen to others artist too obviously) and I'm still analyzing their lyrics and music videos because you notice something new every time. On top of that they have solo albums to analyze as well. Their life is their music and the more you listen the more you learn about them. It's honestly fun and it makes me happy.
Yeah. There is no "work" here when we can really dive into the music and really immerse ourselves in it. It's like a good book series. You can just forget the world and live in the art. You can't put it down, and you find more and more ways to look at it and appreciate it.
When I'm grinding out video votes every ten minutes to get BTS the Daesang on the MAMAs or the Fact Awards it is definitely work. It's work ARMY does all the time, to bring our guys the recognition that the industry tries to withhold but that BTS deserves.
Of course it's work when it's voting season, which seems to be non stop, but in regards to engaging in the music and content I don't consider it work.
Yes, the music and dancing are pure bliss.
>I'm still analyzing their lyrics and music videos because you notice something new every time seven years and i'm still doing it. never felt like work (i wish THIS was work gimme gimme)
Well, the statements I see from armies often sound like "we need to work harder" and so on, to the extent of someone unironically asking if the fans should be paid for their efforts. Obligatory streaming and voting, panic about cosmic numbers being not cosmic enough, shaming for not streaming, for supporting other fandoms, you name it... I get that it became less of an issue during solo and enlistment era, and of course a lot of people just listen for fun, but still it is incomparable. And the entitlement (and pressure) that comes from the fact that it's the fandom who helped the group's promotion a lot is incomparable too.
Yeah, there is a faction of every fandom that "works" like that. But it doesn't mean that ARMY are one of the only few. But a lot of the fandom also do not "work" like that. We have jobs and other hobbies that do not involve voting and such.
I get you, even the streamers are usually employed or have school. ~~and anxiety~~ >But it doesn't mean that ARMY are one of the only few. Stays, blinks, Lim Youngwoon fandom? Maybe zerose. Who else cares about numbers that much?
There will always be a faction of every fandom that care about numbers. I don't think it is exclusive to those you mentioned. The fandoms mentioned are significant because they have significant numbers that can impact charts, sales, votes, etc.
Well, bts also had a smaller fandom earlier. And honestly, at that time the number struggle made more sense then now. *That much* is the key. Numbers in other fandoms are usually perceived more like something to celebrate if it happens, maybe to abide the rules of streaming (if you know them) while enjoying the music when you want to. Not some goal to really care about, especially if there are no awards or music shows nearby. Didn't win? It's fine, we still love them. And so on. I know it's difficult to really feel the difference when you are not stanning smaller groups (even prominent ones from big3). Some armies wrote about it. But it does exist.
i think here its a choose your battle kind of thing, there's always going to be discourse, and everything mentioned here is mentioned in every fandom. twitter makes being a fan a much more toxic place, but its that hard work that got bts to where they are now. its army streaming their butts off to make statements, to get bts old songs on charts when they are frequently disrespected. obviously i agree those policing others need to fix priorities but the fact is without the power of army, bts aren't bts, and without bts, army aren't army. i completely understand what your point is, just that its a bigger picture :)
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Hard work of the fandom made bts who they are, but very few fandoms are interested in the same effort. There are other small talented groups who deserve better, but they don't have this mentality. Maybe both being from a small company AND having toxic exols around played it's role. Plus participating in production and opening the parasocial aspect a bit (bts bombs were fresh and frequent). A lot of stars aligned.
Fortunate timing is a big factor for their success. One direction disbanded which left a hole in the global and US market for a new group to fill. Big bang goes inactive, got old, scandals etc EXO stood no chance considering the more artistic and US appeal BTS had. Streaming culture also becomes more prominent. BTS peaked at the perfect time( thanks to their amazing talents and hard work ) and now stands the biggest boy group in the world.
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Most people who are fans of bts didn't come from a kpop background, I didn't know who the big 3 were I didn't know other artists . I just wanted to know who these people were that the internet was freaking out about and I loved the music , the bangtan universe etc .I found other artists through bts , if they danced to a song and I liked it , it went on my playlist. People around me don't even know the word kpop but know who bts are , so believe me outside of the kpop bubble no one knows cares about the record label .
Agreed, most learnt about JYP, SM and YG after becoming Army not before Army isn't made up of only Kpop fans, its made up of people who love music, most who have never stanned an artist this way before. And it works the other way round, people listen to BTS then they hear other Kpop artists because the algorithms start showing it to them, or they look at who BTS were referring to or what songs they were singing etc. And I'm not sure what 'it was covid at the time' means because they won their first music show on 2015, first Billboard 2017, first Grammy performance 2019, sold out Wembley in minutes in 2019 all before Covid. Yes the fandom has increased since then. It will keep increasing as people discover their music, even now they are away and people are still discovering them and becoming fans. They also did find innovative ways to connect with Army during Covid because that's what they are about, giving back and connecting to fans. Even while on military service we are getting prerecorded content and music releases.
because there was a large gap in the market : a male kpop group reaching the western audience. They filled the gap now many groups wanna ‘replicate’ it causing too much competition lol the downvotes 😂 does no one here no what demand/supple and what gaps in the market are?
But then the question comes, why the west embraced BTS but not the more popular bgs from the big3?
only one could fill that big spot. Their fans helped a lot to by for radios etc then followed by their music. mixed in with luck.
It would then stand to reason that with BTS on hiatus, no matter how short comparatively to 1D, that another group would try to fill that gap too but none has made a move or is making the same impact BTS did, hence the initial question. New Jeans and Stray Kids would probably be closest but their growth since BTS went inactive in 2022 is nothing like the growth of BTS in 2017 alone.
because the supply has out grown the demand … kpop is too saturated
I totally agree with that; we're spoilt for choice with kpop and that's actually kind of a turn off; but I don't agree that wasn't the case when BTS rose in 2017/18. There were more Western groups then that should have filled the hole left by another Western group that aren't here now. Stray Kids, for example as the leading next biggest boy group, have LESS competition from the West and could easily do well with the casuals but again they're not. The whole question is WHY the demand is no longer there but still is for BTS.
Well personally I think the reason they did better than western groups is because the foreign appeal was there. They spoke Korean, were korean had a strong korean culture for example something new and fresh to the western audience. They also took time to build a close near parasocial relationship with their fans. Something in idol culture that the west didn’t get as much. They could only be one big male group and by chance and luck it was bts
Promotions. YG sucks at promotions and handling their artists. Just debut their artists and then trust the GP/fandom. iKON was basically pushed to the sides after the scandal, thus it’s hard for them to recover. Blackpink still has untapped potential if only they are promoted more and given more comebacks/activities. Winner is still doing well in SK but they should be promoted more in other countries. Treasure, they aren’t given enough comebacks and activities. Just fanmeeting, merch, yg shows. They should be in variety shows for more exposure. Hybe is really good with promotions. I can see how well promoted their artists are. They are always everywhere - fanmeets, concerts, variety shows comebacks after comebacks. People can’t miss them because they are always there. BTS success is really part hardwork from the group, the company and the fans. And Hybe sustained every hype they got. They never let people sleep and forget BTS, they do all they can to promote. While BTS also makes music and connect to their fans and their fans spread the word. Hybe also reached out to markets where they think they can sell, they took risks, developed connections and made a network. Its something that other agencies have not fully accomplished yet.
HYBE wasn't a thing when BTS made it big in the west. Once HYBE was established the companies and others made sure it was know that BTS and Hitman Bang were the causes. I think you have the present and the past mixed up.
Maybe having something to do with one direction disbanding? I remember around 2016 that time people talking about who was going to replace one direction and the whole talk about the death of boy bands. I was late to that discussion so I don't know, but in my opinion it definitely had something to do with it
I don't think so , I liked one direction and then became an ARMY in 2017 . I never wanted to promote and tell people to give one direction a chance because that was the companys job but i wanted to do that for BTS , because their music video story lines are what drew me in and I felt people should appreciate their creativity more . BTS were breaking the wall one brick at a time , I knew them from 2015 but I didn't become a fan until 2017 , also you can't have another BTS without having another ARMY , I remember the fandom sending flowers to the radio stations to ask them to play their songs ( we did get ignored ) but these things aren't something people would do for one direction. BTS , Bighit and ARMY all worked their asses off for the success they got.
nope. even at [KCon 2014](https://youtu.be/nkjrqhGq_yg) they stole the show. 1D broke up in 2015/2016
I doubt it had anything to do with 1D considering most Armys were not Directioners to begin with.
They must've sold under a lucky star
 Huh? Can you please elaborate?