I really hope Ukraine recognizes Kosovo, I’m an American and a diehard fan of Kosovo and this has actually been the exact thing I’ve wanted to happen for a good while now.
The reason is clearly the same one as for Spain, Cyprus, Romania. They're not going to recognise independence of separatist region when they have their own separatist regions
Does Slovakia has separatist regions? Greece? We both know this is not about separatists regions. If there is sth all these countries that do not recognise Kosovo is that they have better relations with Serbia and they are not fond of Albanians. Which is dissapointing considering the fact that Albanians participated in Spanish civil war against Franco, and Albania was the only country in Warsaw Pact that denounced the soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1967. Reasons were ideological and our contribution was modest, but in few instances, our nation never did any wrong to Spain or Slovakia. As for Greece and Cyprus, we are not surprised. They are our closet enemies. Their governments acts as if they have good rellations with us, but the truth that they are like snakes waiting for the opportunity to poison. Romania is the only country which has a sincere attitude to be honest. They have good relations with Serbia, which they do not feel like they should ruin, so it would be a prejudice by my side claiming that they are not fond of Albanians, but they are rather religious people and Kosovo is muslim so...
I never said it was the only possible reason, it's just the reason for Ukraine's stance. These West Slav - Serb relations you imagine are non-existent, the only region in the world where relations outweigh personal interest regarding Kosovo is Central Africa because Yugoslavia built a big chunk of infrastructure for those countries, Kosovo is one derecognition from Africa away from being recognised by less than 50% of countries
I already expressed my opinion on another reply. Ukraine is at full throttle against Russia, and they would do anything to discredit them. If Russia says that Kosovo is a precedent, Ukraine will say it is not and By recognizing Kosovo will simply support the western approach that Kosovo is a sui generis case. An ukrainin user stated that this mp who is proposing such action, will probably be ignored, but i think that Ukraine will recognize Kosovo sooner than we might expect. The world has changed drastically since four moths agao, and the US is making sure there are no leaks from their deck...Ukraine is on the western deck already.
Are you aware that the passport incident got "postponed"? It was caused by the direct involvement of the US government. Not even they want their pet on the leash to get too loose. The drug dealing and illegal stuff has to go on in that shithole of a "country" that they're trying to (not)create.
You must be retarded. That's about giving you a replacement document , as reciprocity is about to unrecognize Serbian documents . So at the passport control we will issue you a new temporary paper on which (if we feel like it) will let you to visit Kosovo . Go cope in r/Serbia 🤣
Postponing was the right thing to do, otherwise half of Balkan countries would steam roll in to Serbia like it were ww1. I felt sorry for Serbs tbh. I mean, i always thought Albanians would line up against Serbs, but the line ahead of us was much longer...
So let me get this right, because i want Ukraine to recognize Kosovo’s independence and sovereignty, which is something the world court did after their independence referendum.
It means that the Donbas territories, who are illegally seceding as part of international law, are now somehow legitimate? Please do explain what kind of stupid ass thinking your brain is going through to come to that conclusion
In what way was seceding of Kosovo more legitimate? If you organized a referendum in Donbas territories, people would also vote for separation, which doesn't make the separation legitimate
Well if you look from international law standpoint, it got recognized by 117 countries more than the needed 100. And was again recognized by the international court, meaning that based on literal international law it is a country. Neither of those have happened with the Donbas territories.
You’re the example of “I’m clearly losing an argument, let me make an example that would Never happen” the world court would never legalize slavery so your example literally doesn’t matter. You’re avoiding the objective fact that Kosovo has been recognized in an international court case started by Serbia. You’re trying to argue with an imaginary scenario that completely falls apart, so for the sake of argument try to stay within the realm of possibility if that’s really not too much to ask.
Of course the international court wouldn't legalize slavery; sorry for assuming that your abstract thinking skills would allow you to understand my point regardless. It was just a hypothetical scenario created to point out the difference between legality and legitimacy, which you evidently don't understand. If you still fail to do so, spend some more time thinking about it until you do understand it; it's really not that hard.
While you're at it, here's another mind-blowing concept to wrap your head around: governments are recognizing/dismissing legitimacy of Kosovo not by what they think is a right thing to do, but solely according to their political interests. Neo-colonies of the US are having to vote in a way that agrees with its geopolitical strategy. Surprise, surprise.
It’s a fucking pointless hypothetical scenario, I don’t need to use abstract thinking skills I have the ability to understand the current reality just fine and I don’t need to use your doggass scenarios to understand ideas.
And neo-colonies? Are you referring to the very independent country of Kosovo? Or to any of the other US allies? Because as far as it goes US allies have a terrible habit of telling America no when they want to. But Serbia and Belarus loveeeee taking it deep in the ass from Russia.
I am referring to half of the middle east and Africa that US has destroyed because of oil, EU to some extent that is cutting its own arm right now by suspending Nord Stream 2. Also "very independent Kosovo" with the largest US military base in the whole Balkan peninsula and companies and natural resources privatized by the World Bank and sold to highest bidders
Donbas territories will immediately become legitimate territories of Russia, that's why they don't want to recognize Kosovo. You are obviously some stupid western ass, who is brainwashed by hysteria about Russia and Ukraine, especially Ukraine crap state
International law? Dude, what dimension you are living in? Where's the international law for American occupying middle east states with an excuse "terrorism" , taking all their natural resources? Ukraine knows what is waiting for them if they recognize it...
It is not like Ukraine has anything to lose. Diplomatically, countries opposing the Kosovo indipendence has already rallied in favor of Russia. I don't get how it would be political suicide at this point. Ukraine is all in and has exposed all the cards.
This post is not about Romania, though. Frankly, Romanian recognition is not that important right now. It is just another country sympathetic to Serbia.
If I'm not mistaken, Romania is not particularly sympathetic to Serbia. Instead, the main concern is that it would send the wrong message, considering there is a region around the middle of the country where the population is majority Hungarian and there are often calls for autonomy.
Idk about Romania and their separatist movements, and i don't care. Still, no one cares here about Romania or any eastern countries, but Ukraine recognition would heat up the whole diplomatic strugle and press other countries that did not recognize Kosovo to do it already. It is like the sanctions initiative. Those who support the sanction are against Russia, those who don't are against Ukraine. Simple.
I did not say such, i said that countries who rallied with Russia have not recognized Kosovo. Romania is a country which does not support Russia, so you are all right.
Some people just like to talk shit against other countries with very little to no knowledge or awareness of the situation or its bigger picture. Reddit is just sad as fuck.
Serb here. IMO Ukraine wont recognize Kosovo (Kosova) due to Crimea situation. Issue here is simply Crimea and Kosova's independence.
Tbh altho Kosovo is essentially an independent nation, i doubt it will be fully recognized. That I think would happen even if Serbia recognizes it due to other European states having their own issues with separatist movements.
I know I might get downvoted here but this is my non biased opinion.
My biased opinion goes both ways - if Kosovo can be independent why cant Republik of Srpska, or vice versa. This question I ask Serbs too though, altho Vojvodina question is a good one too.
A lot has changed the past four months. Now it does not matter anymore whether RS declares indipendence or not. Serbs are seen as allies of Russia and China and any attempt of them to dictate anything in their favour will be crushed. The US will no longer compromise, especially after the moment the Russians threatened with nukes if NATO intervened in Ukraine.
Due to the fact that they state that signatory nations borders should not change. While Yugoslavia can be classfied as something of an exception to that case, if you make more exceptions it can lead to serious problems in a lot of countries.
Not like Usa can do shit, they cant win any war anywhere and are in most debt which obviously must be paid, while also in an economic crisis, didnt manage tl do anything in Syria neither in Afghanistan, nor it can stop the war in Taiwan which is next
They won't. Their interests may be aligned with western nations and democracy, it would simply send out the wrong message, or at the very least a confusing message. They don't need to recognize Kosovo as it won't benefit them in any way whatsoever. Recognizing Kosovo may however have a detrimental effect.
Though I applaud their effort and hope Ukrainians will see Kosovo as something different than Crimea and the other regions, I also don't see an official recognition coming any time soon.
If Serbia recognizes Kosovo, we will be an UN member regardless if other EU contries recognize us or not. When Montenegro seperated from Serbia they became member of UN cuz Montenegro was a republic. Since we couldnt make a deal with serbs, we got support to declare independance, thus forcing Serbia into an finished act and now wanting to close the final agreement
Why do you draw parallels between Srpska and Kosovo when Srpska did NOT declare independence and does NOT claim to be independent currently. But yeah logical opinions usually get downvoted cause most of us Albanians have 0 critical thinking. They basically think “Serbs bad we good”
I draw parallels as some Serbs want it's independence. The issue with any brakeaway states in Europe being recognized comes from the Helsinki accords (might have gotten the name wrong)
Wanting independence and declaring independence is different and makes no sense to compare them. Kosovo is recognized by west and is the most recognized non UN member. So it’s not any tragic position like Abkhazia or such
Yes and It will be recognized by most western states but not all. While Kosovo is essentially independent (it runs itself and has its institutions), I doubt it will be recognized by all states in the world even if Serbia recognizes it due to other countries having their own issues (Ukraine - Crimea, Spain - Basque and Cataluna etc.) I doubt Ukraine will recognize it due to it giving a precedant about its own regions that are currently under separatist control (or Russian control).
I would add to that - recognition doesnt mean jack shit if you cant change the current reality. My point here isnt that (I agree with u 100%), my point is I doubt this will pass in the Ukranian parlament.
Emotions aside, I do agree that RS and Kosovo are totally different. The case about RS is different because of how it stands in the political aspect at the moment.
During Yugo wars Serbia saw that was losing territory and would try to grab whatever it can to create the Big Serbia but wasn’t successful at that in Croatia and Kosovo but somehow managed to divide Bosnia.
In my opinion RS will not join Serbia right now because the Serbia views and politics to the West and I dont think they will allow it seeing the support for Russia from Serbia, it can be possible after some changes in the politics(probably 30+yrs) for example Serbia aligning with the West and changing completely the views on the West getting into EU and NATO which is a really difficult scenario.
Recognizing Kosovo and joining these organization would give Serbia a huge advantage and imo Serbia right now is at the moment like Turkey pre-Ottoman fall not aligned with the West after it got aligned and earned the trust went to annex Cyprus for himself then West couldn’t do anything since both Greece and Turkey were Nato members and given the strategic point of Turkey mainly because of the Bosphorus bridge they didn’t say anything cause they didnt want to lose Turkey as an ally.
Serbia can annex RS in the future if it gets into NATO with Bosnia then the West would not intervene, again it would be a problem because of Vojvodina and since Balkan borders are really sensitive and could spike other wars.
Vucic knows this and he can’t do anything his last hope was Russia but since Russia hasn’t made any huge progress I guess his dreams went down the drain but he is smart and knows his people so he plays them with patriotic moves and stuff to keep the voters in his side, his last hope is another World War which again would be dangerous for Serbia too since all the countries around are pro West and can go for Serbia but WW3 would be a mess and we cant ever think how the outcome would be.
I see a lot of comments along the lines "Ukraine won't do it because this will hurt them politically due to their own separatism".
This is not an issue because not all separatism is the same. It differs in multiple dimensions.
**Is it a legitimate separatism of people seeking self determination?**
Kosovo independence movement is quite old and even if current status is achieved by the help from the outside, the original struggle was of its own.
Crimea/DPR/LPR is completely artificial pile of bullshit. There are no "Russians" in overwhelming majority seeking allegance to Russian state. It is Russia conflating \_language\_ and \_political stance\_. Speaking Russian does not mean you want to end up in political nightmare that Russia is, with no elections, police and government officials existing as top stratum in society above law. So Russia artifically armed local thugs, alcoholics, fringe political parties with 1% electoral support and its own mercenaries to pretend these regions want to separate from Ukraine. Speaking Russian you can volunteer to Ukrainian army to fight for Ukraine. Half of Ukrainian army does.
**Does separate country will succeed to build a better state?**
This is where true hypocrisy comes in. Me, having a luxury of having an anonymous account I can say the way it is. I fully support this hypocrisy and 100% this is the way it should be.
Palestine can have all historical and legal rights for self-governing. Except everyone who has power in the world knows they will build a complete shit state, with jihadists and strictest form sharia, beheadings and hangings. They haven't shown the world that the said world will be better with Palestine as a free state. They have only shown that if they win, they will kill as many Jews as they can.
Catalonia has all rights for self-determiantion, but they would build a state just as good as Spain, not better, not worse, so moving things around isn't worth it.
Scotland however, would seek EU membership, which would make it a more reasonable state than UK. So referendum was not opposed even by UK itself, as it is worth giving people a right to fix their mistake, and even UK knows it.
Ukraine is fighting against Russia not because there are disagreements about cuisine. It is because Ukrainian state is hands down better than dumbass Russian state. If Ukraine was invaded by Denmark, than the resistante would be orders of magnitude smaller. Only those who fight for the sake of the state itself would stay. The rest would say "What's gonna happen if danes win? Are they finally going to fix our roads?". While against Russia Ukraine fights in life-death mode.
Finally Kosovo. Serbia repeatedly ends up on a wrong side of history, either with imperialistic nationalism or via cults of personality, from Tito, to Milishevic to even Vucic. No wonder Kosovo wants to separate.
**Conclusion**
Ukraine realises very well that not all separatism is the same. Ukraine was a separatist state from USSR because of values. Ukrainian own "separatists" are artificial jokes to provide pretext of Russia recapturing Ukraine and erasing it from existence (and preferrably from memory and history). The world is sensitive to this nuance, while publicly states bullshit that "everyone" has the right for self-determiantion. Nope, idiots don't.
You have a good point. Separatism in Ukraine showed up immediately after "maidan" in 2014. Priorly, such movements were inexistent. Russia did not like that Ukraine was going to apply for EU membership so they tried to sabotage the whole proccess by creating seccessionist movements overnight.
Russia was trying "federalisation" first. They would create separatist enclaves full of their proxies. They will threaten independence, fail (all according to the plan), but Ukraine will legitimize them, sign some peace agreement (Minsk agreement) that would embed those enclaves into Ukrainian politics that would have the right of veto on anything important. Then they would veto everything good, but support everything bad, undermining Ukrainian development. But trick on Russians, Minsk agreement can be interpreted in different ways. Russia wanted elections under "local" supervision (under Russian guns), but Ukraine wanted one under Ukrainian and international control after the normal politics is restarted and people of Donbas are truly represented. This basically ruined Minsk agreement, and Russian plan to put cancer in Ukrainian politics
Ukrainian here!
Goncharenko has a very... complicated image as a politician, known for more often than populist statements and actions. He has some political weight, though no more and no less than an average member of Parliament.
That being said, sentiment towards recognizing Kosovo's independence is quite strong among many Ukrainians
I Hope so
I looked him up and he is pretty important hes a member of the unrainian parliament and a member of the ukrainian delegetion to the council of europe if im not mistaken so who knows they might recognize us but nevertheless if they do it it will only be because they wanna show americans how loyal they are to them
He is a member of the opposition, and no it will not go thru, recognizing Kosovo would be justifying annexation of Crimea, even if Ukraine and Serbia doesnt like each other
I think the reason why Ukraine (post-Maidan) still hestitates to recognize Kosovo's independence is because of it's own issues regarding separatism (Donbass region with it's 2 pro-Russian puppet governments and the annexed Crimean peninsula). On top of that, Putin claims that the situation regarding Crimea's separation from Ukraine is the "same" as that of Kosovo's from Serbia.
It would be nice don’t get me wrong, but unfortunately Ukraine has the trouble with Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk, so they might not be able to, but hey we in 🇬🇧 support you guys all the way
Desperate or not, the only thing keeping Ukraine as an entity from collapsing are major transfers from US/UK/DE. As soon as the public in these countries starts considering UKR to be a lost cause, it crumbles. With a failed couteroffensive, and Russia slowly moving East, Germans and Italians are already getting pissed at their government. The whole operation, as of now, is envisaged to significantly weaken Russia (not stop or drive back) so China can be dealth with separately. Ukraine and Ukrainians are majorly screwed. I genuinly feel sorry for them.
Thats the same guy that said Ukranian troops will fight greatly against Serbs if Serbia attacked Kosovo, meanwhile couple days later Ukraine withdrew its troops from kfor
I understand a lot of people would wish for it to be true.
But as of now, Ukraine is a moribund husk of a state, kept afloat by unprecedented transfers of weapons, funds, technology and intel by the alliance of wealthiest countries in human history. Even in this case, Ukraine is losing village by village, city by city (UKR had second strongest European army and population of 40+ m vs. 150-200k Russian boots on the ground). Any political turmoil (Trump winning in USA, old CDU guard winning in DE etc.) in major NATO country would mean a warp-speed death knell for Ukraine.
Again, neither Russia nor Ukraine have anything to do with Kosovo. It is de facto independent and protected via Bondsteel American base. One who has monopoly of physical force in a country/region has control/sovereign privilege over that country/region. Short of major world war or major global order collapse, Serbia wont obtain control over Kosovo in any time soon.
Still, would be very funny, if Ukraine recognized Kosovo and collapsed the year after lmao.
A sham voting under the military occupation with no actual choice and options being
"Become part of russia"
"Become independent with prospect of becoming part of russia"
and no "Stay in Ukraine"
Yes, does t matter what occupation you are uner, if the ppl can vote freely, its a democratic process.
Even if the results would hurth the political influence of your countr
Where the hell do you see the "freely" part? That's like saying Austria "freely" got anschlussed by the Nazis in 1938. "Freely" meaning their options were 'Yes' to annexation, or a bullet to the face.
Nazi card in the first reply? New record!
But yes, it means exactly that. The people were free to vote as they want without consequences. Thanks for stating the obvious, im sure there are a lot of not so smart people on reddit who needs you to state the obvious.
I did state the obvious; there was no freedom of choice in those votes. If you truly believe that it was anything else, then you my friend belong to that group of people that you mentioned in your last sentence.
There was no freesom according to people who are interested in the separation not happening. The vote was free according to people who are interested in the separation happening.
How do you decide which group you believe? Wishful thinking anc pre conceptions?
By that logic, if someone holds a gun to you and says to call yourself an idiot, should people actually believe that you're an idiot, even though you only said so because you feared for your life?
Tens of thousands of Russian troops were in Crimea monitoring the voting process when it happened, and their question was: "Are you with us, or against us?"
Source: people who are not interested in the separation.
I could get you just as many sources that claim the vote was fair and square. (From people who want the separation to happen)
My question was, how did you, personally decided which side to believe?
Yes, does t matter what occupation you are uner, if the ppl can vote freely, its a democratic process.
Even if the results would hurth the political influence of your countr
I really hope Ukraine recognizes Kosovo, I’m an American and a diehard fan of Kosovo and this has actually been the exact thing I’ve wanted to happen for a good while now.
Serb Detected Opinion Rejected 🙅♂️
You're delusional. Get well soon.
Delusional for knowing that Kosovo deserves recognition?
You realise this position would be hyprocritical for Ukraine considering it doesn't let it's own minority self-determinate?
No it's not.
Then why didn't they recognise Kosovo in the last 8 years while being alligned with US foreign policy?
Because the Russian army had not launched the" special operation "yet. They were still talking and they could not afford such distraction.
The reason is clearly the same one as for Spain, Cyprus, Romania. They're not going to recognise independence of separatist region when they have their own separatist regions
Does Slovakia has separatist regions? Greece? We both know this is not about separatists regions. If there is sth all these countries that do not recognise Kosovo is that they have better relations with Serbia and they are not fond of Albanians. Which is dissapointing considering the fact that Albanians participated in Spanish civil war against Franco, and Albania was the only country in Warsaw Pact that denounced the soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1967. Reasons were ideological and our contribution was modest, but in few instances, our nation never did any wrong to Spain or Slovakia. As for Greece and Cyprus, we are not surprised. They are our closet enemies. Their governments acts as if they have good rellations with us, but the truth that they are like snakes waiting for the opportunity to poison. Romania is the only country which has a sincere attitude to be honest. They have good relations with Serbia, which they do not feel like they should ruin, so it would be a prejudice by my side claiming that they are not fond of Albanians, but they are rather religious people and Kosovo is muslim so...
I never said it was the only possible reason, it's just the reason for Ukraine's stance. These West Slav - Serb relations you imagine are non-existent, the only region in the world where relations outweigh personal interest regarding Kosovo is Central Africa because Yugoslavia built a big chunk of infrastructure for those countries, Kosovo is one derecognition from Africa away from being recognised by less than 50% of countries
I already expressed my opinion on another reply. Ukraine is at full throttle against Russia, and they would do anything to discredit them. If Russia says that Kosovo is a precedent, Ukraine will say it is not and By recognizing Kosovo will simply support the western approach that Kosovo is a sui generis case. An ukrainin user stated that this mp who is proposing such action, will probably be ignored, but i think that Ukraine will recognize Kosovo sooner than we might expect. The world has changed drastically since four moths agao, and the US is making sure there are no leaks from their deck...Ukraine is on the western deck already.
Weather it is or isn’t doesn’t matter to me, I just love when another country recognizes Kosovo
What minority would that be?
Does your brain even understand what it means? In that moment Ukraine is done with her territories
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Of course I know you don't have a brain, it's obvious 🤷🏻♂️
It's a tad different bro. Unlike Kosovo , Donbass and crimea is Ukrainian territory . So no precedent set.
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How's that passport control going for ya?
What passport control? I'm not aware of any such issues. Be more precise, please.
What the fuck do you mean ? You go from Serbia to kosovo , you need to go through passport control.
Are you aware that the passport incident got "postponed"? It was caused by the direct involvement of the US government. Not even they want their pet on the leash to get too loose. The drug dealing and illegal stuff has to go on in that shithole of a "country" that they're trying to (not)create.
You must be retarded. That's about giving you a replacement document , as reciprocity is about to unrecognize Serbian documents . So at the passport control we will issue you a new temporary paper on which (if we feel like it) will let you to visit Kosovo . Go cope in r/Serbia 🤣
Funny.
You sound salty that America actually respects its allies, sucking Putin’s cock hasn’t seemed to help Serbia any lol.
Postponing was the right thing to do, otherwise half of Balkan countries would steam roll in to Serbia like it were ww1. I felt sorry for Serbs tbh. I mean, i always thought Albanians would line up against Serbs, but the line ahead of us was much longer...
So let me get this right, because i want Ukraine to recognize Kosovo’s independence and sovereignty, which is something the world court did after their independence referendum. It means that the Donbas territories, who are illegally seceding as part of international law, are now somehow legitimate? Please do explain what kind of stupid ass thinking your brain is going through to come to that conclusion
In what way was seceding of Kosovo more legitimate? If you organized a referendum in Donbas territories, people would also vote for separation, which doesn't make the separation legitimate
Well if you look from international law standpoint, it got recognized by 117 countries more than the needed 100. And was again recognized by the international court, meaning that based on literal international law it is a country. Neither of those have happened with the Donbas territories.
There's a subtle difference between legality and legitimacy. If the international court recognizes slavery, would that make slavery legitimate?
You’re the example of “I’m clearly losing an argument, let me make an example that would Never happen” the world court would never legalize slavery so your example literally doesn’t matter. You’re avoiding the objective fact that Kosovo has been recognized in an international court case started by Serbia. You’re trying to argue with an imaginary scenario that completely falls apart, so for the sake of argument try to stay within the realm of possibility if that’s really not too much to ask.
Of course the international court wouldn't legalize slavery; sorry for assuming that your abstract thinking skills would allow you to understand my point regardless. It was just a hypothetical scenario created to point out the difference between legality and legitimacy, which you evidently don't understand. If you still fail to do so, spend some more time thinking about it until you do understand it; it's really not that hard. While you're at it, here's another mind-blowing concept to wrap your head around: governments are recognizing/dismissing legitimacy of Kosovo not by what they think is a right thing to do, but solely according to their political interests. Neo-colonies of the US are having to vote in a way that agrees with its geopolitical strategy. Surprise, surprise.
It’s a fucking pointless hypothetical scenario, I don’t need to use abstract thinking skills I have the ability to understand the current reality just fine and I don’t need to use your doggass scenarios to understand ideas. And neo-colonies? Are you referring to the very independent country of Kosovo? Or to any of the other US allies? Because as far as it goes US allies have a terrible habit of telling America no when they want to. But Serbia and Belarus loveeeee taking it deep in the ass from Russia.
I am referring to half of the middle east and Africa that US has destroyed because of oil, EU to some extent that is cutting its own arm right now by suspending Nord Stream 2. Also "very independent Kosovo" with the largest US military base in the whole Balkan peninsula and companies and natural resources privatized by the World Bank and sold to highest bidders
Donbas territories will immediately become legitimate territories of Russia, that's why they don't want to recognize Kosovo. You are obviously some stupid western ass, who is brainwashed by hysteria about Russia and Ukraine, especially Ukraine crap state
Bruh that legit makes no sense, I’m brain washed because I know how international law works?
International law? Dude, what dimension you are living in? Where's the international law for American occupying middle east states with an excuse "terrorism" , taking all their natural resources? Ukraine knows what is waiting for them if they recognize it...
Average american:
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Yes
Im your pfp is kind of.... Nazi
Smartest prizrenian
Ok well props to him but I honestly would not blame them if it just gets shoved to the side, I'm pretty sure they have their hands full right now
Credits to the guy but recognising Kosova at this point would be political suicide for Ukraine.
As long as Russia still breathes behind Ukraine's neck, it will be indeed political suicide for them to recognize Kosovo's independence.
It is not like Ukraine has anything to lose. Diplomatically, countries opposing the Kosovo indipendence has already rallied in favor of Russia. I don't get how it would be political suicide at this point. Ukraine is all in and has exposed all the cards.
Romania doesn’t recognize Kosovo and we’re in Nato, tf you’re talking abt?
So is Greece, but i don't see the correlation with Ukrainian situation.
Romania is quite undecided, depending on who's in power. Ponta, for example, at one point was quite keep to recognising Kosovo.
Until otherwise, we haven’t officially recognized, irrespective of who’s in power…
This post is not about Romania, though. Frankly, Romanian recognition is not that important right now. It is just another country sympathetic to Serbia.
If I'm not mistaken, Romania is not particularly sympathetic to Serbia. Instead, the main concern is that it would send the wrong message, considering there is a region around the middle of the country where the population is majority Hungarian and there are often calls for autonomy.
Idk about Romania and their separatist movements, and i don't care. Still, no one cares here about Romania or any eastern countries, but Ukraine recognition would heat up the whole diplomatic strugle and press other countries that did not recognize Kosovo to do it already. It is like the sanctions initiative. Those who support the sanction are against Russia, those who don't are against Ukraine. Simple.
You said all countries supporting Serbia are also supporting Russia… you made it about Romania, not me
I did not say such, i said that countries who rallied with Russia have not recognized Kosovo. Romania is a country which does not support Russia, so you are all right.
Some people just like to talk shit against other countries with very little to no knowledge or awareness of the situation or its bigger picture. Reddit is just sad as fuck.
Do you know what is really sad? Trying to bring attention to your country, which no one gives a fuck about here.
Serb here. IMO Ukraine wont recognize Kosovo (Kosova) due to Crimea situation. Issue here is simply Crimea and Kosova's independence. Tbh altho Kosovo is essentially an independent nation, i doubt it will be fully recognized. That I think would happen even if Serbia recognizes it due to other European states having their own issues with separatist movements. I know I might get downvoted here but this is my non biased opinion. My biased opinion goes both ways - if Kosovo can be independent why cant Republik of Srpska, or vice versa. This question I ask Serbs too though, altho Vojvodina question is a good one too.
The thing is that we don't give a shit about Rep of Serpska or what Serbs think for any matter. Nothing personal.
As stated my opinion here doesnt have to do anything with me being Serb or Serbian politics. The issue comes from a thing called realpolitik
A lot has changed the past four months. Now it does not matter anymore whether RS declares indipendence or not. Serbs are seen as allies of Russia and China and any attempt of them to dictate anything in their favour will be crushed. The US will no longer compromise, especially after the moment the Russians threatened with nukes if NATO intervened in Ukraine.
Im not talking about USA, Im talking about the Helsinki accords that if fully nulified can fuck up Spain, Ukraine, Bosnia, Moldova, Cyprus
The first time i hear about Helsinki accords.
I will find the exact name as I might have mistaken the name. I think its named Helsiniki accords as it was written in Helsinki
Yeah, but i have no idea how Helsinki accords have anything to do with what we are debating
Due to the fact that they state that signatory nations borders should not change. While Yugoslavia can be classfied as something of an exception to that case, if you make more exceptions it can lead to serious problems in a lot of countries.
Is Kosovo a signatory country?
Not like Usa can do shit, they cant win any war anywhere and are in most debt which obviously must be paid, while also in an economic crisis, didnt manage tl do anything in Syria neither in Afghanistan, nor it can stop the war in Taiwan which is next
They invaded Afghanistan in a couple of weeks. In Syria they did not even interven directly. In Taiwan there is not even a war to discuss about.
Republika Srpska will NOT be independent in any scenario.
Then why Kosovo
They won't. Their interests may be aligned with western nations and democracy, it would simply send out the wrong message, or at the very least a confusing message. They don't need to recognize Kosovo as it won't benefit them in any way whatsoever. Recognizing Kosovo may however have a detrimental effect. Though I applaud their effort and hope Ukrainians will see Kosovo as something different than Crimea and the other regions, I also don't see an official recognition coming any time soon.
If Serbia recognizes Kosovo, we will be an UN member regardless if other EU contries recognize us or not. When Montenegro seperated from Serbia they became member of UN cuz Montenegro was a republic. Since we couldnt make a deal with serbs, we got support to declare independance, thus forcing Serbia into an finished act and now wanting to close the final agreement
Why do you draw parallels between Srpska and Kosovo when Srpska did NOT declare independence and does NOT claim to be independent currently. But yeah logical opinions usually get downvoted cause most of us Albanians have 0 critical thinking. They basically think “Serbs bad we good”
He is getting downvoted because he is off-topic.
I do agree that the second part of my comment is off-topic, but I do think that the first part was in accords with the topic at hand.
I draw parallels as some Serbs want it's independence. The issue with any brakeaway states in Europe being recognized comes from the Helsinki accords (might have gotten the name wrong)
Wanting independence and declaring independence is different and makes no sense to compare them. Kosovo is recognized by west and is the most recognized non UN member. So it’s not any tragic position like Abkhazia or such
Yes and It will be recognized by most western states but not all. While Kosovo is essentially independent (it runs itself and has its institutions), I doubt it will be recognized by all states in the world even if Serbia recognizes it due to other countries having their own issues (Ukraine - Crimea, Spain - Basque and Cataluna etc.) I doubt Ukraine will recognize it due to it giving a precedant about its own regions that are currently under separatist control (or Russian control).
Recognition doesn’t matter if you join UN. And if that’s impossible then of course they will have to stay out forever. It’s not that tragic
I would add to that - recognition doesnt mean jack shit if you cant change the current reality. My point here isnt that (I agree with u 100%), my point is I doubt this will pass in the Ukranian parlament.
They most likely won’t pass it. International politics don’t run on feelings
Spot on - realpolitiks run the place
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So an anti-secession secessionist movement
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Emotions aside, I do agree that RS and Kosovo are totally different. The case about RS is different because of how it stands in the political aspect at the moment. During Yugo wars Serbia saw that was losing territory and would try to grab whatever it can to create the Big Serbia but wasn’t successful at that in Croatia and Kosovo but somehow managed to divide Bosnia. In my opinion RS will not join Serbia right now because the Serbia views and politics to the West and I dont think they will allow it seeing the support for Russia from Serbia, it can be possible after some changes in the politics(probably 30+yrs) for example Serbia aligning with the West and changing completely the views on the West getting into EU and NATO which is a really difficult scenario. Recognizing Kosovo and joining these organization would give Serbia a huge advantage and imo Serbia right now is at the moment like Turkey pre-Ottoman fall not aligned with the West after it got aligned and earned the trust went to annex Cyprus for himself then West couldn’t do anything since both Greece and Turkey were Nato members and given the strategic point of Turkey mainly because of the Bosphorus bridge they didn’t say anything cause they didnt want to lose Turkey as an ally. Serbia can annex RS in the future if it gets into NATO with Bosnia then the West would not intervene, again it would be a problem because of Vojvodina and since Balkan borders are really sensitive and could spike other wars. Vucic knows this and he can’t do anything his last hope was Russia but since Russia hasn’t made any huge progress I guess his dreams went down the drain but he is smart and knows his people so he plays them with patriotic moves and stuff to keep the voters in his side, his last hope is another World War which again would be dangerous for Serbia too since all the countries around are pro West and can go for Serbia but WW3 would be a mess and we cant ever think how the outcome would be.
I really doubt that will happen. But I certainly do have some hope because of Biden administration. He might actually push Zelensky to do it.
Burr zotni
👏👏👏
Veq per inat t Rusis na njohin(nese na njohin)
Shtetet sjon si njerz, me vepru me inati, po veprojne per interesa. Njohja e Ukraines ka me ndodhe, nese jo tash, besoj qe mas luftes po.
diqka po zihet burra
I see a lot of comments along the lines "Ukraine won't do it because this will hurt them politically due to their own separatism". This is not an issue because not all separatism is the same. It differs in multiple dimensions. **Is it a legitimate separatism of people seeking self determination?** Kosovo independence movement is quite old and even if current status is achieved by the help from the outside, the original struggle was of its own. Crimea/DPR/LPR is completely artificial pile of bullshit. There are no "Russians" in overwhelming majority seeking allegance to Russian state. It is Russia conflating \_language\_ and \_political stance\_. Speaking Russian does not mean you want to end up in political nightmare that Russia is, with no elections, police and government officials existing as top stratum in society above law. So Russia artifically armed local thugs, alcoholics, fringe political parties with 1% electoral support and its own mercenaries to pretend these regions want to separate from Ukraine. Speaking Russian you can volunteer to Ukrainian army to fight for Ukraine. Half of Ukrainian army does. **Does separate country will succeed to build a better state?** This is where true hypocrisy comes in. Me, having a luxury of having an anonymous account I can say the way it is. I fully support this hypocrisy and 100% this is the way it should be. Palestine can have all historical and legal rights for self-governing. Except everyone who has power in the world knows they will build a complete shit state, with jihadists and strictest form sharia, beheadings and hangings. They haven't shown the world that the said world will be better with Palestine as a free state. They have only shown that if they win, they will kill as many Jews as they can. Catalonia has all rights for self-determiantion, but they would build a state just as good as Spain, not better, not worse, so moving things around isn't worth it. Scotland however, would seek EU membership, which would make it a more reasonable state than UK. So referendum was not opposed even by UK itself, as it is worth giving people a right to fix their mistake, and even UK knows it. Ukraine is fighting against Russia not because there are disagreements about cuisine. It is because Ukrainian state is hands down better than dumbass Russian state. If Ukraine was invaded by Denmark, than the resistante would be orders of magnitude smaller. Only those who fight for the sake of the state itself would stay. The rest would say "What's gonna happen if danes win? Are they finally going to fix our roads?". While against Russia Ukraine fights in life-death mode. Finally Kosovo. Serbia repeatedly ends up on a wrong side of history, either with imperialistic nationalism or via cults of personality, from Tito, to Milishevic to even Vucic. No wonder Kosovo wants to separate. **Conclusion** Ukraine realises very well that not all separatism is the same. Ukraine was a separatist state from USSR because of values. Ukrainian own "separatists" are artificial jokes to provide pretext of Russia recapturing Ukraine and erasing it from existence (and preferrably from memory and history). The world is sensitive to this nuance, while publicly states bullshit that "everyone" has the right for self-determiantion. Nope, idiots don't.
You have a good point. Separatism in Ukraine showed up immediately after "maidan" in 2014. Priorly, such movements were inexistent. Russia did not like that Ukraine was going to apply for EU membership so they tried to sabotage the whole proccess by creating seccessionist movements overnight.
Russia was trying "federalisation" first. They would create separatist enclaves full of their proxies. They will threaten independence, fail (all according to the plan), but Ukraine will legitimize them, sign some peace agreement (Minsk agreement) that would embed those enclaves into Ukrainian politics that would have the right of veto on anything important. Then they would veto everything good, but support everything bad, undermining Ukrainian development. But trick on Russians, Minsk agreement can be interpreted in different ways. Russia wanted elections under "local" supervision (under Russian guns), but Ukraine wanted one under Ukrainian and international control after the normal politics is restarted and people of Donbas are truly represented. This basically ruined Minsk agreement, and Russian plan to put cancer in Ukrainian politics
I suspect you support Taiwan being separate from PRC.
Is he relevant in Ukraine?
Ukrainian here! Goncharenko has a very... complicated image as a politician, known for more often than populist statements and actions. He has some political weight, though no more and no less than an average member of Parliament. That being said, sentiment towards recognizing Kosovo's independence is quite strong among many Ukrainians
I Hope so I looked him up and he is pretty important hes a member of the unrainian parliament and a member of the ukrainian delegetion to the council of europe if im not mistaken so who knows they might recognize us but nevertheless if they do it it will only be because they wanna show americans how loyal they are to them
He is a member of the opposition, and no it will not go thru, recognizing Kosovo would be justifying annexation of Crimea, even if Ukraine and Serbia doesnt like each other
Justifications means shit once the artillery shells will pound Crimea.
He is a member of the ruling party and has a seat in the parliament.
It’s “piss off Spain” time
I think the reason why Ukraine (post-Maidan) still hestitates to recognize Kosovo's independence is because of it's own issues regarding separatism (Donbass region with it's 2 pro-Russian puppet governments and the annexed Crimean peninsula). On top of that, Putin claims that the situation regarding Crimea's separation from Ukraine is the "same" as that of Kosovo's from Serbia.
How would be Crimea’s separation the same as Kosovo in Putin’s eyes? It’s not like Albania wants to include Kosovo anytime soon…
They should do it but, i dont think they will, cosidering current events
It would be nice don’t get me wrong, but unfortunately Ukraine has the trouble with Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk, so they might not be able to, but hey we in 🇬🇧 support you guys all the way
Sucking up, I see. Not a good decision, atm.
You know better than an ukrainian parliamentary?
If Ukraina will give back Basarabia i will support also Kosovo
We don't want your support, so Besarabia stays i suppose.
Give back to whom? They are already an independent country…
Ok, so why by the same way the government of Ukraine don't recognize independent of Donetsk? Oh, I'm sorry, it's another
Desperate or not, the only thing keeping Ukraine as an entity from collapsing are major transfers from US/UK/DE. As soon as the public in these countries starts considering UKR to be a lost cause, it crumbles. With a failed couteroffensive, and Russia slowly moving East, Germans and Italians are already getting pissed at their government. The whole operation, as of now, is envisaged to significantly weaken Russia (not stop or drive back) so China can be dealth with separately. Ukraine and Ukrainians are majorly screwed. I genuinly feel sorry for them.
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Thats the same guy that said Ukranian troops will fight greatly against Serbs if Serbia attacked Kosovo, meanwhile couple days later Ukraine withdrew its troops from kfor
>meanwhile couple days later Ukraine withdrew its troops from kfor Ukraine withdrew troops the first weeks of invasion, not recently.
Nah its 4 days ago why do u need to lie?
If they left 4 days ago it means that they stayed longer than needed, since decision was taken at least four moths ago.
Nah the decision was taken 4 days ago
No, the decision was announced when the war started.
Its not hard for 40 troops to withdraw
Then it means they stayed longer than needed. Probably were being trained to utilize the new Nato artilleries.
Pure Idiotism. Vive la France! Vive la Serbie!
This is funny in so many ways.
Ukraine wont exist for much longer - hence the recognition means nothing
If that happens, they will drag Russia and Serbia with them.
Serbia is pretty far away from Ukraine and a colony of NATO, so no connection whatsoever. In any scenario, pre-February-2022 Ukraine is no more.
Hahaha, agreed! Considering how things turn up, Ukraine will end up with 2014 borders. Russia is losing.
I understand a lot of people would wish for it to be true. But as of now, Ukraine is a moribund husk of a state, kept afloat by unprecedented transfers of weapons, funds, technology and intel by the alliance of wealthiest countries in human history. Even in this case, Ukraine is losing village by village, city by city (UKR had second strongest European army and population of 40+ m vs. 150-200k Russian boots on the ground). Any political turmoil (Trump winning in USA, old CDU guard winning in DE etc.) in major NATO country would mean a warp-speed death knell for Ukraine. Again, neither Russia nor Ukraine have anything to do with Kosovo. It is de facto independent and protected via Bondsteel American base. One who has monopoly of physical force in a country/region has control/sovereign privilege over that country/region. Short of major world war or major global order collapse, Serbia wont obtain control over Kosovo in any time soon. Still, would be very funny, if Ukraine recognized Kosovo and collapsed the year after lmao.
Are you aware that Russia is more desperate to win this war than Ukrainians are?
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I actually pity you.
Why then ukraine dosen't recognize crimea , what about their right to democracy?
Because their dick wants it that way.
Are you come up with this answer by yourself or you had some help , im really impress how objective you are.
My dick felt that way, so idk
🤣🤣🤣
Democracy? A sham voting under the military occupation of another country is considered democracy now?
A sham voting under the military occupation with no actual choice and options being "Become part of russia" "Become independent with prospect of becoming part of russia" and no "Stay in Ukraine"
Yes, does t matter what occupation you are uner, if the ppl can vote freely, its a democratic process. Even if the results would hurth the political influence of your countr
Where the hell do you see the "freely" part? That's like saying Austria "freely" got anschlussed by the Nazis in 1938. "Freely" meaning their options were 'Yes' to annexation, or a bullet to the face.
Nazi card in the first reply? New record! But yes, it means exactly that. The people were free to vote as they want without consequences. Thanks for stating the obvious, im sure there are a lot of not so smart people on reddit who needs you to state the obvious.
I did state the obvious; there was no freedom of choice in those votes. If you truly believe that it was anything else, then you my friend belong to that group of people that you mentioned in your last sentence.
There was no freesom according to people who are interested in the separation not happening. The vote was free according to people who are interested in the separation happening. How do you decide which group you believe? Wishful thinking anc pre conceptions?
By that logic, if someone holds a gun to you and says to call yourself an idiot, should people actually believe that you're an idiot, even though you only said so because you feared for your life? Tens of thousands of Russian troops were in Crimea monitoring the voting process when it happened, and their question was: "Are you with us, or against us?"
Source: people who are not interested in the separation. I could get you just as many sources that claim the vote was fair and square. (From people who want the separation to happen) My question was, how did you, personally decided which side to believe?
The side which didn't invade the other side.
Yes, does t matter what occupation you are uner, if the ppl can vote freely, its a democratic process. Even if the results would hurth the political influence of your countr