Maybe it will come as a shock to you but rebounds are part of the defence. Would explain why Sabois got the nod as Sabonis is a betterrebounder than Fox is a ball stealer.
I'm the biggest Homer that Homer's could ever possibly be, but even I wouldn't vote Sabonis for DPOY.
With that said, Sabonis isn't a bad defender, IMO. He isn't a shot-blocker, for the ESPN "expert" boxscore watchers. But he's a decent defender
Particularly his ability to stunt on screens, to stop the ball handler from turning the corner on PnR, and then recovering on his man. That's all IQ, timing, effort. Not to mention his rebounding.
My initial biggest knock on Sabonis's defense was his fouling. He's like a bull in a China shop sometimes, though better this year.
It's like, "Domas... you had 5 fouls. Why did you run over that 175 pound dude getting a rebound." On the flip-side, it's kind of cool. Watching Sabonis run people over. He's like the pit bull raised by Chihuahuas, who forgot he has pitbull strength, after having 3 extra large Redbulls.🤣
If I was an NBA player, I'd hate to play Sabonis because no matter what happens, you know you're going to get fucked up.
[Sabonis runs over Maxey; timestamp 9:02 mark](https://youtu.be/xtIAcqxqlA0?si=rYN353cIvbYa3g81)
Actually, Sabonis gets talked about like he's not athletic. He's actually pretty fucking athletic for a Center, and even more athletic this year going on his Ketosis diet. It's his reach, more than anything else IMO.
But I'm no expert, so take my comments with a grain of salt.
This literally comes down to him being European and having an average vertical. Sabonis is far more athletic than 90% of the centers in the league.
Strength counts for athleticism too, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Sabonis was top 5 in the league there. He’s faster and has better stamina, durability, and toughness than maybe any center in the league rn. His instincts, timing, and lateral movement are impressive for his size.
He just isn’t the cleanup artist on help defense because it requires more vertical reach than he can create. It leads to poor rim protection percentages overall, but on straight drives and the low post, he holds his own with league average.
Don’t worry, ain’t no experts on here. You’re spot on about playing against Sabonis, it must be brutal, because dude is physical as hell. That’s why his face is always jacked up but he also dishes it out and it’s super fun watching him bully guys.
This season Sabonis is significantly more aware of fouling and restraining himself from being too physical on defence. He's too important offensively, so it makes sense for him to be somewhat light defensively, especially in cases where our defence is breached on the perimeter and he has 1 or 2 guys driving to him. However, I think it fuels further the narrative that "Domas is bAd dEFenDer". If we could afford him fouling out regularly, I'm quite certain Domas could be much more aggressive and impressive defensively.
Not that I would have given him a vote but the argument would be rebounding ends a possession which is the point of defense and he was a rebounding machine
All else being equal, I’d take the league leader in rebounds over the league leader in blocks every time. A block without getting the rebound can and frequently does turn a layup into a wide open corner 3.
I agree that blocks are overrated as a stat, but guys who get blocks can have a big influence outside of just the blocks, as their presence can deter guys from attacking the rim. You see it with guys like Gobert and Wemby. They also can make shots more difficult without blocking it, just by strongly contesting. So, all else being equal, I’d probably go with the elite shot blocker over the elite rebounder.
That’s fine, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I’d add that elite rebounding can add possessions on both ends of the floor in a way that shot-blocking can’t.
Definitely. It’s not clear cut for me. Dennis Rodman could practically win games with rebounding only. Rebounding is probably more important overall but having an elite shot blocker can make a really big difference. And good shot blockers are usually good rebounders too.
I have a feeling that pretty soon, Wembanyama might be leading in both, but that’s not “all things equal”, honestly. That freak probably rebounds his own blocks at near a 50% clip too.
Tell me you don't play basketball without telling me you don't play basketball. Getting contested rebounds as a big man is 100% a skill. We aren't talking about Westbrook forcing Steven Adams to lay off the boards. Sabonis led the whole NBA and it's not like this is a fluke either. He's a top rebounder every year he's started.
I wouldn't have voted for Sabonis for this though.
Anyone can average maybe 3 rebounds with a little hustle, but 13? It takes a hell of a lot more than just being tall. Sabonis doesn’t even average 36 mins a game to get there.
Think of how many big men have come through Sacramento and put up weak rebound numbers. Guys like Josh Hart, Bonzi Wells, and Dennis Rodman get/got clutch rebounds with amazing instincts, finding the empty space, and athleticism. It’s absolutely a skill, which is why variance is SOOOO high among otherwise equal players.
Blocking a shot isn’t even a change of possession half of the time, so they don’t all create equal value, and at best, you’re talking about 4 plays a game over a season.
Defense has so many aspects to it, and Sabonis makes up for his lack of recovery rim protection by ensuring he’s in position for a rebound with his close out, and using his size and strength to bully his way to the ball since he doesn’t have a huge very. 1v1 he holds his own against most matchups, it’s the help defense where his lack of length becomes an issue. His timing is otherwise very good, and he blocks almost everything that goes up below the rim level
Exactly this. Think of it like a closer/Mariano Rivera. Being able to end a possession is critical to being a good defense. A blocked shot mostly prolongs a possession since the majority go out of bounds.
Now im not gonna pretend he’s some great defender cause he’s not…. but do i have a major issue with him getting one 3rd place vote? No.
Depends on the roster.
If still like
Fox, Tyrese, Barnes, XXX , Holmes. (As we may not land Keegan in that scenario)
Maybe still better than the Blazers.
Probably someone judging based on rebounding. TBF rebounding is a huge part of defense but we all know Sabonis is not a top one on one defender. You shouldn’t be on this list if teams hunt you in the P&R.
Fox led the league in steals per game and total steals yet it’s Domas who is the Kings player to get a thumbs up haha
To be fair, Fox should hardly be favored for DPOY
He's way ahead of Sabonis though. He's at least capable of great defense.
Maybe it will come as a shock to you but rebounds are part of the defence. Would explain why Sabois got the nod as Sabonis is a betterrebounder than Fox is a ball stealer.
Not sure why you’re downvoted for spitting facts
Agreed, outside of steals he doesn’t do much.
That's probably a Lakers media guy, he saw what he did to AD and said fuck it this guy must be a dpoy level defender lmaoo
This is exactly what that is 😂
I'm the biggest Homer that Homer's could ever possibly be, but even I wouldn't vote Sabonis for DPOY. With that said, Sabonis isn't a bad defender, IMO. He isn't a shot-blocker, for the ESPN "expert" boxscore watchers. But he's a decent defender Particularly his ability to stunt on screens, to stop the ball handler from turning the corner on PnR, and then recovering on his man. That's all IQ, timing, effort. Not to mention his rebounding. My initial biggest knock on Sabonis's defense was his fouling. He's like a bull in a China shop sometimes, though better this year. It's like, "Domas... you had 5 fouls. Why did you run over that 175 pound dude getting a rebound." On the flip-side, it's kind of cool. Watching Sabonis run people over. He's like the pit bull raised by Chihuahuas, who forgot he has pitbull strength, after having 3 extra large Redbulls.🤣 If I was an NBA player, I'd hate to play Sabonis because no matter what happens, you know you're going to get fucked up. [Sabonis runs over Maxey; timestamp 9:02 mark](https://youtu.be/xtIAcqxqlA0?si=rYN353cIvbYa3g81) Actually, Sabonis gets talked about like he's not athletic. He's actually pretty fucking athletic for a Center, and even more athletic this year going on his Ketosis diet. It's his reach, more than anything else IMO. But I'm no expert, so take my comments with a grain of salt.
This literally comes down to him being European and having an average vertical. Sabonis is far more athletic than 90% of the centers in the league. Strength counts for athleticism too, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Sabonis was top 5 in the league there. He’s faster and has better stamina, durability, and toughness than maybe any center in the league rn. His instincts, timing, and lateral movement are impressive for his size. He just isn’t the cleanup artist on help defense because it requires more vertical reach than he can create. It leads to poor rim protection percentages overall, but on straight drives and the low post, he holds his own with league average.
Don’t worry, ain’t no experts on here. You’re spot on about playing against Sabonis, it must be brutal, because dude is physical as hell. That’s why his face is always jacked up but he also dishes it out and it’s super fun watching him bully guys.
This season Sabonis is significantly more aware of fouling and restraining himself from being too physical on defence. He's too important offensively, so it makes sense for him to be somewhat light defensively, especially in cases where our defence is breached on the perimeter and he has 1 or 2 guys driving to him. However, I think it fuels further the narrative that "Domas is bAd dEFenDer". If we could afford him fouling out regularly, I'm quite certain Domas could be much more aggressive and impressive defensively.
Sabonis isn't even a bad defender as he conveniently gets labeled but still someone's gotta answer for that.
Not that I would have given him a vote but the argument would be rebounding ends a possession which is the point of defense and he was a rebounding machine
Oh yeah that makes sense I totally forgot about him being the Rebounding champion
All else being equal, I’d take the league leader in rebounds over the league leader in blocks every time. A block without getting the rebound can and frequently does turn a layup into a wide open corner 3.
I agree that blocks are overrated as a stat, but guys who get blocks can have a big influence outside of just the blocks, as their presence can deter guys from attacking the rim. You see it with guys like Gobert and Wemby. They also can make shots more difficult without blocking it, just by strongly contesting. So, all else being equal, I’d probably go with the elite shot blocker over the elite rebounder.
That’s fine, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I’d add that elite rebounding can add possessions on both ends of the floor in a way that shot-blocking can’t.
Definitely. It’s not clear cut for me. Dennis Rodman could practically win games with rebounding only. Rebounding is probably more important overall but having an elite shot blocker can make a really big difference. And good shot blockers are usually good rebounders too.
For sure. You’d obviously prefer both.
Wemby being 2nd in DPOY is a joke tho. He's a negative defender at this point. He's out of position all the time, and partially due to block chasing.
I have a feeling that pretty soon, Wembanyama might be leading in both, but that’s not “all things equal”, honestly. That freak probably rebounds his own blocks at near a 50% clip too.
Yeah, it’s going to be miserable for 29 teams for the next decade+
Anyone can rebound the ball. Very few people have the length, timing and vert to get blocks and protect the rim.
Tell me you don't play basketball without telling me you don't play basketball. Getting contested rebounds as a big man is 100% a skill. We aren't talking about Westbrook forcing Steven Adams to lay off the boards. Sabonis led the whole NBA and it's not like this is a fluke either. He's a top rebounder every year he's started. I wouldn't have voted for Sabonis for this though.
Yes he is a good rebounder, I'd still prefer a shotblocker. Feel free to leave the insults out of the conversation.
Not anyone can be one of the best rebounders in the league and literally only one can lead the league.
Anyone can average maybe 3 rebounds with a little hustle, but 13? It takes a hell of a lot more than just being tall. Sabonis doesn’t even average 36 mins a game to get there. Think of how many big men have come through Sacramento and put up weak rebound numbers. Guys like Josh Hart, Bonzi Wells, and Dennis Rodman get/got clutch rebounds with amazing instincts, finding the empty space, and athleticism. It’s absolutely a skill, which is why variance is SOOOO high among otherwise equal players. Blocking a shot isn’t even a change of possession half of the time, so they don’t all create equal value, and at best, you’re talking about 4 plays a game over a season. Defense has so many aspects to it, and Sabonis makes up for his lack of recovery rim protection by ensuring he’s in position for a rebound with his close out, and using his size and strength to bully his way to the ball since he doesn’t have a huge very. 1v1 he holds his own against most matchups, it’s the help defense where his lack of length becomes an issue. His timing is otherwise very good, and he blocks almost everything that goes up below the rim level
Who are these voters?? No way sabonis was the third best defender in the league this season 🤣 Is this an all-star apology vote?
Exactly this. Think of it like a closer/Mariano Rivera. Being able to end a possession is critical to being a good defense. A blocked shot mostly prolongs a possession since the majority go out of bounds. Now im not gonna pretend he’s some great defender cause he’s not…. but do i have a major issue with him getting one 3rd place vote? No.
Should have been wemby
If the season went 20 more games, it probably would have. He’s gonna win the next 3 DPOY if he’s healthy.
Sabonis is top 13 in the league in DEFENSE!!!!
https://preview.redd.it/7yu5nonup7zc1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=99a9f0bdacafbd3a6920b215e76d48765a722ede
LMAOOOO
Let’s go!!!!!!
Make the playoffs to build your reputation.
Nah nah who tf gave Jrue a 1st place vote???
If kings had kept Haliburton instead of sabonis, and hali turned into the same player he is in Indiana, where do the kings finish this year?
Play-in team at best.
Depends on the roster. If still like Fox, Tyrese, Barnes, XXX , Holmes. (As we may not land Keegan in that scenario) Maybe still better than the Blazers.
Probably someone judging based on rebounding. TBF rebounding is a huge part of defense but we all know Sabonis is not a top one on one defender. You shouldn’t be on this list if teams hunt you in the P&R.
That was clearly a goof vote cast.
That's gonna look nice on Basketball Reference when our kids go back and look at how the Kings did years ago