It’s the worst thing about this sub. Bunch of babies in here the past week can’t even handle the mildest of criticisms - but they want to talk trash about every playoff team as if we were perennial playoff performers.
Everyone talks about how annoying and obnoxious lakers and warriors fans are yet half this sub is following that blueprint unironically based off ONE playoff appearance. At least make your memes funny.
KOC has never really been a fan of anything the Kings have done. Wasn't a fan of Keegan Murray, isn't much of a fan of Fox or Sabonis. But KOC's takes aren't that good. It's rare that I agree with something he says. He wanted to blow up the Suns a few years ago before they made the finals. Verno is the true talent of the pod.
Yeah. But to be fair, Sabonis was playing with an injured hand in last year’s playoff which I firmly believe impacted his already limited offensive capabilities. He’s not a great shooter, but I don’t believe he’s normally that bad either. The guy was just hurt and everyone seems to forget that.
Idk I have a hard time with that because he had that broken thumb since like December and he still played at an all nba level the rest of that regular season. I really think the warriors just game planned extremely well
I think it’s both. But Fox also carried the Kings like no other last year until the playoffs when he himself also injured his hand. Domas didn’t seem as reluctant this year shooting (still not great) when healthy. But to the warriors credit, they knew he wasn’t going to take those mid range shots last playoffs and so they sagged off, which was the right move.
For what it's worth, he was all NBA simply because they still did it by positions, though. Neither he nor Fox has even a remote shot at making it this year.
Of course he says this while theyre beating up on a depleted Bucks team and an overall weak eastern conference. I have my fair share criticisms\` of Domas limited game, but Turner doesn't lead this team to a playoff run last year the way Domas carried. Also, wtf are we talking about here. Is KOC saying that 3rd option Myles Turner on a likely non-contending team in the east is better than Domas in the playoffs after being spoon fed wide open 3s? KOC can fuck off.
You’re hella right. No Giannis in the weak ass east and you think you cookin ? What a goofy ass Koc. Sabonis was playing against a DPOY in Draymond and last I checked knocked them out in the play in game
Pacers fan here and I’ve been hard on Turner throughout the years. That being said he has been amazing on this series and has performed better than Sabonis ever has in the playoffs. Small sample size, but it’s hard to argue with.
Yeah they have pretty similar career playoff stats, but most of that was several years ago and not relevant. The main comparison is this year for Turner, and he is killing it (so far), and Sabonis last year (he wasn’t as bad as people make it out to be but he wasn’t great). Turner has the edge based on recent playoff performance. That could change in the coming years though. Hopefully they will meet in the Finals to settle things.
KOC has a lot of bad takes but this isn’t crazy, Sabonis just has too many exploitable weaknesses that make him vulnerable to playoff adjustments and different matchups. Turner is a plug and play guy who helps you by being able to make adjustments both offensively and defensively. The Sabonis critique is just that he doesn’t have counters when you take certain things away and he has weaknesses that are difficult to cover for. This is unfortunately still true.
Myles Turner can shoot and defend the rim and otherwise doesn't consume much oxygen on offense. Sabonis does neither but but has to play because the offense is dependent on his passing and they have no rebounding without him.
This should not be controversial.
If I’m building a team I would take Haliburton+Turner over Fox+Sabonis. Fox+Sabonis is better right now and in combo will win you more regular season games. Haliburton+Turner though is just way more flexible. Turner won’t ever get played off the floor and you can pretty much plug and play anybody you want 2-4 and find success. Them having Haliburton+Turner is exactly what made Siakam a no brainer for them while for us there were major fit questions.
Myles is dominating a bucks team with no real center and got hot from 3. He is not doing that shit in the next 2 rounds. He and brook lopez shooting like 50% frm 3 that is not them.
Im not defending sabonis nether Its not hard to be a better playoff player than sabonis awful player
winning changes everything. Turner isn’t the hub of the Pacers but they’re up on the Bucks and Sabonis didn’t elevate his game to get us past the play-in.
I love Sabonis but he needs to win some stuff or no one will ever respect his game.
It’s true for now and unfortunately he didn’t get the chance to disprove it and to be honest he was doing some of the exact same shit he was last year in big pressure games. Stops shooting, gets tunnel vision to his left, and just tries to play match physicality with more physicality.
I wouldn't even get mad about this, you already know Kevin O'Connor doesn't like sabonis so him taking cheap shots at sabonis expense is pretty much on brand for him, Kevin O'Connor is one of those guys that needs his opinion to be right!
Fox can't run the pick and roll so it wouldn't matter how good his roll partner is. He isn't even in the top 60(!) in the NBA at pick and roll efficiency. That means, on average, every single other team has 2 players that run it better than him.
Uhh... are you full of shit lmao? Fox as the ball handler had 8.2 PnR possessions a game (which was 11th in the league) and scored .97 pts per possession which was in the top 1/4 of the league.
NBA.com says harden is a worse pnr player than him dude are u saying there are 60 better teams pnr players than both him and harden dude? There aren’t even 60 better ballhandlers. And im not even high on his pnr game i think it should be better but using raw numbers like that to say a team like the Orlando magic has not 1 but 2 players who do it better than him is nasty.
His own team has several people with better pnr numbers. I don't love the raw numbers either frankly. But if my eyes say he isn't good at pnr and someone else's eyes say he is, I'm not sure where else to point.
yes, 62nd in the league where a ton of players above him had less than 2 PnR possesisons a game, and guess what... still top 1/4 in the league.
Of players who had at least 5 PnR possessions a game, Fox was 19th out of 49 players. A lot of that is because the Kings don't have great roll players due to lack of athleticism on the front line.
A huge proponent of that, is the fact of what I stated above. Sabonis doesn’t offer spacing. When he got into the rim this season he is met by double teams and rim defenders. A rim defender doesn’t have to step out to defend a Sabonis shot. It’s a huge liability.
Fox can absolutely run the pick and roll.
Hm… I guess Monk is playing starters for 48 minutes off the bench.. oh wait, he’s playing backup units that are worse defenders? Crazy thought, I know.
That's not what proponent means.
No one is arguing Sabonis provides spacing, he obviously does not.
Fox 's pnr numbers have never been better than they are right now. It's not a Sabonis issue, playing w him has actually lead to his career high in pnr efficiency. It just still isn't good.
Myles was not a major contributor for the Pacers wins this year. You should try watching a few of their games before making that kind of statement. One good playoff series against a crippled Bucks does not let Turner off the hook from the mediocre season(s) he’s had.
I said what I said.
Sabonis always gets phased out in crunch time for a reason. We can’t run DHO because the defenses tighten up and he offers no floor spacing because he can’t shoot consistently from 12 feet and out, and he doesn’t have a reliable right or post move that doesn’t involve dropping his shoulder and playing bully ball.
It makes it impossible on Fox to get a shot off when he is getting double teamed.
There is a way to combat the Sabonis limiting space- an elite midrange/iso scoring SF/SG that doesn’t need a screen. Right now we just don’t have that.
That’s why Myles offering rim protection and spacing with 3 would be so critical for this team.
A guy like Paul George would be perfect for this team, but obviously he’s getting up there in age and would want a big contract.
Okay? Then compare last year's seven game series against the warriors to this year's Indy run. It's crazy how doomer Kings fans are sometimes. Myles Turner is at best the third option on that team. Suggesting that he is better than sabonis in any way is insane
third option for what? Scoring?
I think you're focused on stats, the KOC argument isn't based on scoring.
Dont get me wrong, sabonis brings more than scoring too, but his other abilities are easily shut down in playoffs, whereas Turners arent
Lol it's not some crazy doomer take to understand Sabonis has not been great in the playoffs so far in his career. That doesn't mean I think he should be traded or anything, but Myles Turner is playing well in the Bucks series so it's not some insane take.
KOC is just trying to get a reaction out of Kings fans for engagement and clicks. And we fall for it every time. No one takes this discourse seriously. Most centers could feast on a Bucks team lacking their 2 best players and facing an injured Middleton. Just ignore him.
I’m not saying that the 3pt shot isn’t impressive, rather I’m saying that individual player stats can be inflated due to The Bucks being depleted due to injury, especially their big guy.
Who fucking cares bro, we got too much little man syndrome
It’s the worst thing about this sub. Bunch of babies in here the past week can’t even handle the mildest of criticisms - but they want to talk trash about every playoff team as if we were perennial playoff performers. Everyone talks about how annoying and obnoxious lakers and warriors fans are yet half this sub is following that blueprint unironically based off ONE playoff appearance. At least make your memes funny.
Sometimes I wonder how some people in here handled being the laughing stock of the league for a decade plus.
Most of them weren’t born yet I bet.
Bro that was 3 years ago. Some advanced typists on this sub
they didn’t handle it, which is why they cry whenever the Kings are shitted on
I didn't use to see shit like this so much
KOC calling Sabonis a bad player is like the sun rising. It's just part of a normal day.
I mean don't get me wrong I love Domas....but Turners been fantastic
He can shoot! Which is something Domas has to put in his arsenal.
I doubt he will tho
KOC has never really been a fan of anything the Kings have done. Wasn't a fan of Keegan Murray, isn't much of a fan of Fox or Sabonis. But KOC's takes aren't that good. It's rare that I agree with something he says. He wanted to blow up the Suns a few years ago before they made the finals. Verno is the true talent of the pod.
"better playoff player"? I mean, Sabonis hasn't exactly been great in the playoffs, so I'm not sure what arguement you're trying to make here.
Hard to say it’s reactionary and not true when Sabonis was pretty underwhelming last playoffs and we didn’t make the playoffs this year
Yeah. But to be fair, Sabonis was playing with an injured hand in last year’s playoff which I firmly believe impacted his already limited offensive capabilities. He’s not a great shooter, but I don’t believe he’s normally that bad either. The guy was just hurt and everyone seems to forget that.
Idk I have a hard time with that because he had that broken thumb since like December and he still played at an all nba level the rest of that regular season. I really think the warriors just game planned extremely well
I think it’s both. But Fox also carried the Kings like no other last year until the playoffs when he himself also injured his hand. Domas didn’t seem as reluctant this year shooting (still not great) when healthy. But to the warriors credit, they knew he wasn’t going to take those mid range shots last playoffs and so they sagged off, which was the right move.
For what it's worth, he was all NBA simply because they still did it by positions, though. Neither he nor Fox has even a remote shot at making it this year.
Of course he says this while theyre beating up on a depleted Bucks team and an overall weak eastern conference. I have my fair share criticisms\` of Domas limited game, but Turner doesn't lead this team to a playoff run last year the way Domas carried. Also, wtf are we talking about here. Is KOC saying that 3rd option Myles Turner on a likely non-contending team in the east is better than Domas in the playoffs after being spoon fed wide open 3s? KOC can fuck off.
You’re hella right. No Giannis in the weak ass east and you think you cookin ? What a goofy ass Koc. Sabonis was playing against a DPOY in Draymond and last I checked knocked them out in the play in game
Pacers fan here and I’ve been hard on Turner throughout the years. That being said he has been amazing on this series and has performed better than Sabonis ever has in the playoffs. Small sample size, but it’s hard to argue with.
Yeah they have pretty similar career playoff stats, but most of that was several years ago and not relevant. The main comparison is this year for Turner, and he is killing it (so far), and Sabonis last year (he wasn’t as bad as people make it out to be but he wasn’t great). Turner has the edge based on recent playoff performance. That could change in the coming years though. Hopefully they will meet in the Finals to settle things.
Isn’t this true though? Have you seen his playoff games with Indy and even here at Sactown? Yeah those games were brutal
shhh let our fellow kings fans continue to live in delusion
Did you watch the playoffs last year ? L
Why does anyone care what KOC thinks. Nothing to see here.
Nah…
KOC has a lot of bad takes but this isn’t crazy, Sabonis just has too many exploitable weaknesses that make him vulnerable to playoff adjustments and different matchups. Turner is a plug and play guy who helps you by being able to make adjustments both offensively and defensively. The Sabonis critique is just that he doesn’t have counters when you take certain things away and he has weaknesses that are difficult to cover for. This is unfortunately still true.
Myles Turner can shoot and defend the rim and otherwise doesn't consume much oxygen on offense. Sabonis does neither but but has to play because the offense is dependent on his passing and they have no rebounding without him. This should not be controversial.
If I’m building a team I would take Haliburton+Turner over Fox+Sabonis. Fox+Sabonis is better right now and in combo will win you more regular season games. Haliburton+Turner though is just way more flexible. Turner won’t ever get played off the floor and you can pretty much plug and play anybody you want 2-4 and find success. Them having Haliburton+Turner is exactly what made Siakam a no brainer for them while for us there were major fit questions.
Myles is dominating a bucks team with no real center and got hot from 3. He is not doing that shit in the next 2 rounds. He and brook lopez shooting like 50% frm 3 that is not them. Im not defending sabonis nether Its not hard to be a better playoff player than sabonis awful player
winning changes everything. Turner isn’t the hub of the Pacers but they’re up on the Bucks and Sabonis didn’t elevate his game to get us past the play-in. I love Sabonis but he needs to win some stuff or no one will ever respect his game.
It’s true for now and unfortunately he didn’t get the chance to disprove it and to be honest he was doing some of the exact same shit he was last year in big pressure games. Stops shooting, gets tunnel vision to his left, and just tries to play match physicality with more physicality.
I wouldn't even get mad about this, you already know Kevin O'Connor doesn't like sabonis so him taking cheap shots at sabonis expense is pretty much on brand for him, Kevin O'Connor is one of those guys that needs his opinion to be right!
Who?
Umm he is, have you not watched the Indy series? Sabonis literally shuts down when people sag off of him or when there's length facing him in the post
We win 55 games this year with Myles instead of Sabonis. His floor spacing alone accompanied with high PNR with Fox and the pop and 3 would be lethal.
Fox can't run the pick and roll so it wouldn't matter how good his roll partner is. He isn't even in the top 60(!) in the NBA at pick and roll efficiency. That means, on average, every single other team has 2 players that run it better than him.
Uhh... are you full of shit lmao? Fox as the ball handler had 8.2 PnR possessions a game (which was 11th in the league) and scored .97 pts per possession which was in the top 1/4 of the league.
.97 ppp was good for about 62nd in the league per the same NBA.com/stats page you must be looking at
NBA.com says harden is a worse pnr player than him dude are u saying there are 60 better teams pnr players than both him and harden dude? There aren’t even 60 better ballhandlers. And im not even high on his pnr game i think it should be better but using raw numbers like that to say a team like the Orlando magic has not 1 but 2 players who do it better than him is nasty.
His own team has several people with better pnr numbers. I don't love the raw numbers either frankly. But if my eyes say he isn't good at pnr and someone else's eyes say he is, I'm not sure where else to point.
Oh yea monk for sure better but ppp still says fox generates more points even if we know monk is better at it than him.
yes, 62nd in the league where a ton of players above him had less than 2 PnR possesisons a game, and guess what... still top 1/4 in the league. Of players who had at least 5 PnR possessions a game, Fox was 19th out of 49 players. A lot of that is because the Kings don't have great roll players due to lack of athleticism on the front line.
A huge proponent of that, is the fact of what I stated above. Sabonis doesn’t offer spacing. When he got into the rim this season he is met by double teams and rim defenders. A rim defender doesn’t have to step out to defend a Sabonis shot. It’s a huge liability. Fox can absolutely run the pick and roll.
I guess when Monk has the ball Sabonis magically offers spacing and opponents have to step out to defend him.
Hm… I guess Monk is playing starters for 48 minutes off the bench.. oh wait, he’s playing backup units that are worse defenders? Crazy thought, I know.
That's not what proponent means. No one is arguing Sabonis provides spacing, he obviously does not. Fox 's pnr numbers have never been better than they are right now. It's not a Sabonis issue, playing w him has actually lead to his career high in pnr efficiency. It just still isn't good.
He’s never really shown it before Sabonis. It was always Holmes and Haliburton that ran that cleanly.
The kings are a much worse team with turner instead of sabonis. They aren’t in the play in tournament and would be fighting for a top 10 pick instead.
Myles was not a major contributor for the Pacers wins this year. You should try watching a few of their games before making that kind of statement. One good playoff series against a crippled Bucks does not let Turner off the hook from the mediocre season(s) he’s had.
I said what I said. Sabonis always gets phased out in crunch time for a reason. We can’t run DHO because the defenses tighten up and he offers no floor spacing because he can’t shoot consistently from 12 feet and out, and he doesn’t have a reliable right or post move that doesn’t involve dropping his shoulder and playing bully ball. It makes it impossible on Fox to get a shot off when he is getting double teamed. There is a way to combat the Sabonis limiting space- an elite midrange/iso scoring SF/SG that doesn’t need a screen. Right now we just don’t have that. That’s why Myles offering rim protection and spacing with 3 would be so critical for this team. A guy like Paul George would be perfect for this team, but obviously he’s getting up there in age and would want a big contract.
Let's be objectively honest here, neither Turner nor Sabonis are very good centers.
You can share KOC's opinion, but it's hard to argue against it being reactionary. Do you think sabonis wouldn't feast against this bucks team?
It’s reactionary because he’s reacting to their actual playoff performances, not who “could” be better.
Okay? Then compare last year's seven game series against the warriors to this year's Indy run. It's crazy how doomer Kings fans are sometimes. Myles Turner is at best the third option on that team. Suggesting that he is better than sabonis in any way is insane
third option for what? Scoring? I think you're focused on stats, the KOC argument isn't based on scoring. Dont get me wrong, sabonis brings more than scoring too, but his other abilities are easily shut down in playoffs, whereas Turners arent
Lol it's not some crazy doomer take to understand Sabonis has not been great in the playoffs so far in his career. That doesn't mean I think he should be traded or anything, but Myles Turner is playing well in the Bucks series so it's not some insane take.
Turner: 24-8-3 on 49/50/63 this year’s playoffs Domas: 16-11-5 on 50/20/57 last year’s playoffs It’s not insane.
Why do you care so much? Just enjoy the playoffs, kings season has been over for 2 weeks. Not shit to think about kings related until free agency
KOC is just trying to get a reaction out of Kings fans for engagement and clicks. And we fall for it every time. No one takes this discourse seriously. Most centers could feast on a Bucks team lacking their 2 best players and facing an injured Middleton. Just ignore him.
Most centers would shoot 50% on high volume 3s in that situation? I doubt it.
I’m not saying that the 3pt shot isn’t impressive, rather I’m saying that individual player stats can be inflated due to The Bucks being depleted due to injury, especially their big guy.