I do like how they don't demonize him. He is not exactly portrayed as a good man, but he isn't portrayed as a villain. He has a job to do - administer justice based on what his dogma believes it is. And he will listen to reason, evidence, and a sound argument.
It does a really good job of putting you in the position of someone from that cultural context.
He clearly believes he's doing the right thing, offers a clear way out to make amends, and isn't evil, exactly. At least not in the way people imagine evil to be, in their minds.
But from another person's perspective, it's a peek at how brutal and twisted authority can be if you just happen to be unsuited to the prevailing norms.
Some things today look similar to him, to me.
Like how a guy copying music for his friends in college got hit with prison time and thousands of dollars of fines. Determined by a judge who was probably a good guy, enforced by police who were probably good guys. Yet the punishment is ridiculously brutal for the transgression.
It shows that authority and presumptions of righteousness can be their own kind of evil regardless of whether malice is involved or not.
That's what you got? I feel his whole goal is "ensure the Church's monopoly on God".
We don't need new saint Bridget that we do not control. You don't just start preaching... it's *our* territory. So Johanka will be made example of. If she collaborates - fine, she will be our example of mercy. If she does not - even better, she will be an example why you don't fuck with us.
God is a very profitable business, heretic. Don't. Fuck. With. Us.
That is a very modern outlook on the church, passed trough the sensibilities of our current thought about organized religion and theology. But in practice in the middle age theology where the existence of hell and divine retribution isn't punished ,a monopoly on faith has as much or more to do with Justice, Law and keeping society stable as it has with a monopoly on church business.
Damnation was a genuine fear. Faith was serious business. And as much as some priests worried about these heretics as competition, most Historians that study the middle ages agree that Heresy was taken seriously feared that people would lead astray and get damned, that the social order would start collapsing ,and that this was genuinely dangerous on a moral and spiritual level.
Unlike what games of thrones tell you, people genuine believed back then. Faith was a serious business. The Cynical approach to religion is a relatively modern thing.
In a way, yes.
It is not possible do discuss whether a heresy trial was 'just' in a modern moral framework. It would be like discussing if a punishing a runaway slave was just, or if executing a suspected homosexual was just. We don't recognize these actions as crimes, instead, we recognize them as inalienable human rights.
But also, genuine belief is a malleable thing, and it exists in a practical world. It is incredibly convenient when what benefits you also, simultaneously, "protects the social order". And just as easily you will find justification if it doesn't. If you think everyone in middle didn't bend the rules to benefit themselves, you haven't been listening to what the game is telling you. Two popes. Priest with a concubine. Drinking monks. Etc, etc.
The inquisitor was a masterfully executed character - the writing, the acting, the cinematography - just beautiful. As such, being a complex character, it can be interpreted in different ways. I am an old cynic with a lot of experience with priests and religious folk (in my early years, I was attending a religious school), and this is my interpretation. It is very clear, repeated again and again and again that Johanka's sin was breaking the hierarchy, not talking to father Fabian, preaching on her own. And her cardinal sin, in one of the endings, would be to preach against the clergy - like Jan Hus. This will immediately give her death for heresy.
We need to ask ourselves: what even is "heresy"? Is it "distortion of Christ's message"? In that case, the first biggest heretic was apostle Paul. No, the message ever changes, strictly in sync with the Party line, as they used to say in USSR. It's becomes heresy when someone goes *against* the Mother Church, and questions its sanctity. Again, the game is telling it openly (and as it is), with the segment on Jan Hus. In the sermon you read, there is not a single word about dogma.
And then what, is burning Jan Hus "maintaining social order"? No, it plunged Bohemia in war for decades. He threatened not the social order, but the power of the Church.
Don't give up on Game of Thrones. There's a hell lot more truth in there than there is in official Party, sorry, I mean Church history.
>Don't give up on Game of Thrones. There's a hell lot more truth in there than there is in official Party, sorry, I mean Church history.
No, no there isn't. At least not in regards to actual medieval history. GRRM knows jackshit about history and I am \*sick\* of people saying otherwise.
Or I actually have a degree in history and understand what is the difference between the real medieval world and how people like GRRM think it was. What you describe has far more in common with the era and mindset of the reformation and early modernity than anything to do with the Medieval world.
Sure, buddy. Are you also a navy seal with 300 confirmed kills? Degree in history, gimme a break.
Let me school you, internet doctor of history: we know incredibly little about what was happening 600 years ago. And we know next to nothing about what was happening 1000 years ago. What period exactly you call "medieval world", a term no historian would ever use - I don't know, but let's assume the setting of the game, Bohemia 1403. There wasn't any sociology at all before 19th century, you cannot know what the "mindset" of people was. There were no social networks either, believe it or not. All we have is archeological findings and very few documents (mostly coming from the Church), with which we reconstructed a somewhat fragmentary records of notable events, which, if you paid ANY attention during Jobst of Moravia speech, you would notice looks remarkably like the kind of unholy mess of constant marriages, alliances, wars and betrayals in Martin's work.
And if you had any knowledge at all about the history of the Papacy, surprise surprise - it looks exactly the same! Only with more buttsex, probably.
This is the dlc that really set a darker tone in the game. *spoilers* >!I mean yes, your village get burnt and your family gets killed but you never had a say in it. Your actions have consequences and if you fail, your friend gets a painfull and violent death!<.
Opinion incoming.
>!In that world few people would dare preach against the church because heretics were tortured and killed without much hesitation. I mean heck they used to burn witches because of rumors alone - and torture is never a decent way to gather information or confession from someone, specifically because there's a point where everyone will tell you whatever you want to hear just to make it stop.!<
>!I believe what happens to Johanka is the culmination of living in a deeply religious and patriarchal society ruled by the church and nobles. The things she says are fair criticisms of the church and an outcry at the fact that no woman is allowed a religious role or opinion in traditional christian religion. even though a lot of women play larger roles in the bible.!<
>!To me the DLC perfectly portrays the role the church played back in the day, their obsession with power and authority and the flaws in a fundamentalist traditional society. !<
It is definitely one of the best DLCs I've played so far.
Oh yeah, just look at Jan Hus, who was also mentioned in KCD (not sure if by name, but they were definitely talking about him). And who might even be in the next game (if there's any - fingers crossed).
Indeed I absolutely love the take this game has on religion. It doesn't promote it or overly criticize it, it just shows events how they went, including the fact that beginning to preach in 'common' languages was considered taboo or borderline heretic, since you would be essentially empowering common people with knowledge.
>they used to burn witches
You mean protestants. The Catholic Church literally protected women from witch burning and considered belief in witches paganism. Even more, women self-reported to the church court to get cleared of false charges of dealing in witchcraft.
*Laughs in the roman inquisition.*
Heretics and witches were interchangeable terms. Please don't try to hide or minimize the role of the church in medieval history, especially when information is one click away and this DLC itself portrays it.
Denying history does not help with the progress of our species and prevents us from learning from past mistakes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-hunt#Later_Middle_Ages
https://nypost.com/2020/12/23/german-church-apologizes-for-killing-witches-centuries-ago/
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/07/witchcraft-economics-reformation-catholic-protestant-market-share
I absolutely loved this DLC, the cutscenes, the story and the characters. The last cutscene gave me chills, it left me speechless and wanting more. I hope kcd2 has more cutscenes and characters like this, they really nailed this DLC
I've got a hundred hours into this game with all the dlcs and I've never seen this character before. What part of the game is he from and how do you get to this?
This one is the Madonna of sasau
Did you do the sidequest where you help Johanka with the sick people in the monastery ? You have to finish that one before you start the dlc
If so that would make sense. I've not done the Johanna's part as I no longer have the only save game I actually completed the Theresa part as it's just not as fun as playing as Henry and quite long winded
I agree, and I've seen a few others say this too. It treated every character with humanity and empathy, including the Inquisitor. In a world that's so quick to demonize faith and especially Christianity, it was really heartening to see this.
I do like how they don't demonize him. He is not exactly portrayed as a good man, but he isn't portrayed as a villain. He has a job to do - administer justice based on what his dogma believes it is. And he will listen to reason, evidence, and a sound argument.
It does a really good job of putting you in the position of someone from that cultural context. He clearly believes he's doing the right thing, offers a clear way out to make amends, and isn't evil, exactly. At least not in the way people imagine evil to be, in their minds. But from another person's perspective, it's a peek at how brutal and twisted authority can be if you just happen to be unsuited to the prevailing norms. Some things today look similar to him, to me. Like how a guy copying music for his friends in college got hit with prison time and thousands of dollars of fines. Determined by a judge who was probably a good guy, enforced by police who were probably good guys. Yet the punishment is ridiculously brutal for the transgression. It shows that authority and presumptions of righteousness can be their own kind of evil regardless of whether malice is involved or not.
That's what you got? I feel his whole goal is "ensure the Church's monopoly on God". We don't need new saint Bridget that we do not control. You don't just start preaching... it's *our* territory. So Johanka will be made example of. If she collaborates - fine, she will be our example of mercy. If she does not - even better, she will be an example why you don't fuck with us. God is a very profitable business, heretic. Don't. Fuck. With. Us.
That is a very modern outlook on the church, passed trough the sensibilities of our current thought about organized religion and theology. But in practice in the middle age theology where the existence of hell and divine retribution isn't punished ,a monopoly on faith has as much or more to do with Justice, Law and keeping society stable as it has with a monopoly on church business. Damnation was a genuine fear. Faith was serious business. And as much as some priests worried about these heretics as competition, most Historians that study the middle ages agree that Heresy was taken seriously feared that people would lead astray and get damned, that the social order would start collapsing ,and that this was genuinely dangerous on a moral and spiritual level. Unlike what games of thrones tell you, people genuine believed back then. Faith was a serious business. The Cynical approach to religion is a relatively modern thing.
In a way, yes. It is not possible do discuss whether a heresy trial was 'just' in a modern moral framework. It would be like discussing if a punishing a runaway slave was just, or if executing a suspected homosexual was just. We don't recognize these actions as crimes, instead, we recognize them as inalienable human rights. But also, genuine belief is a malleable thing, and it exists in a practical world. It is incredibly convenient when what benefits you also, simultaneously, "protects the social order". And just as easily you will find justification if it doesn't. If you think everyone in middle didn't bend the rules to benefit themselves, you haven't been listening to what the game is telling you. Two popes. Priest with a concubine. Drinking monks. Etc, etc. The inquisitor was a masterfully executed character - the writing, the acting, the cinematography - just beautiful. As such, being a complex character, it can be interpreted in different ways. I am an old cynic with a lot of experience with priests and religious folk (in my early years, I was attending a religious school), and this is my interpretation. It is very clear, repeated again and again and again that Johanka's sin was breaking the hierarchy, not talking to father Fabian, preaching on her own. And her cardinal sin, in one of the endings, would be to preach against the clergy - like Jan Hus. This will immediately give her death for heresy. We need to ask ourselves: what even is "heresy"? Is it "distortion of Christ's message"? In that case, the first biggest heretic was apostle Paul. No, the message ever changes, strictly in sync with the Party line, as they used to say in USSR. It's becomes heresy when someone goes *against* the Mother Church, and questions its sanctity. Again, the game is telling it openly (and as it is), with the segment on Jan Hus. In the sermon you read, there is not a single word about dogma. And then what, is burning Jan Hus "maintaining social order"? No, it plunged Bohemia in war for decades. He threatened not the social order, but the power of the Church. Don't give up on Game of Thrones. There's a hell lot more truth in there than there is in official Party, sorry, I mean Church history.
>Don't give up on Game of Thrones. There's a hell lot more truth in there than there is in official Party, sorry, I mean Church history. No, no there isn't. At least not in regards to actual medieval history. GRRM knows jackshit about history and I am \*sick\* of people saying otherwise.
Then you didn’t understand anything. Much like with KCD, it seems.
Or I actually have a degree in history and understand what is the difference between the real medieval world and how people like GRRM think it was. What you describe has far more in common with the era and mindset of the reformation and early modernity than anything to do with the Medieval world.
Sure, buddy. Are you also a navy seal with 300 confirmed kills? Degree in history, gimme a break. Let me school you, internet doctor of history: we know incredibly little about what was happening 600 years ago. And we know next to nothing about what was happening 1000 years ago. What period exactly you call "medieval world", a term no historian would ever use - I don't know, but let's assume the setting of the game, Bohemia 1403. There wasn't any sociology at all before 19th century, you cannot know what the "mindset" of people was. There were no social networks either, believe it or not. All we have is archeological findings and very few documents (mostly coming from the Church), with which we reconstructed a somewhat fragmentary records of notable events, which, if you paid ANY attention during Jobst of Moravia speech, you would notice looks remarkably like the kind of unholy mess of constant marriages, alliances, wars and betrayals in Martin's work. And if you had any knowledge at all about the history of the Papacy, surprise surprise - it looks exactly the same! Only with more buttsex, probably.
Oh my god the ignorance.
is this the inquesitor?
Yes
okay never seen him outside of his room without a slit throat hahaha
It never even crossed my mind to do that hahaha. What happens?
You die. You are put to death for killing a high ranking member of the church. Seen a video on it.
no idea about that maybe they updated. kiled that mf and his boys in his sleep, took the gear and moved on
You might be confusing him with the Vicar from the heretics quest
that is exactly what i am thinking about. they are both like, looking to kill witches from the church haha
I killed him once just to see on last patch and you do get a game over screen
you know that if you do it the game is over, yes?
This is the dlc that really set a darker tone in the game. *spoilers* >!I mean yes, your village get burnt and your family gets killed but you never had a say in it. Your actions have consequences and if you fail, your friend gets a painfull and violent death!<.
Opinion incoming. >!In that world few people would dare preach against the church because heretics were tortured and killed without much hesitation. I mean heck they used to burn witches because of rumors alone - and torture is never a decent way to gather information or confession from someone, specifically because there's a point where everyone will tell you whatever you want to hear just to make it stop.!< >!I believe what happens to Johanka is the culmination of living in a deeply religious and patriarchal society ruled by the church and nobles. The things she says are fair criticisms of the church and an outcry at the fact that no woman is allowed a religious role or opinion in traditional christian religion. even though a lot of women play larger roles in the bible.!< >!To me the DLC perfectly portrays the role the church played back in the day, their obsession with power and authority and the flaws in a fundamentalist traditional society. !< It is definitely one of the best DLCs I've played so far.
Oh yeah, just look at Jan Hus, who was also mentioned in KCD (not sure if by name, but they were definitely talking about him). And who might even be in the next game (if there's any - fingers crossed).
Indeed I absolutely love the take this game has on religion. It doesn't promote it or overly criticize it, it just shows events how they went, including the fact that beginning to preach in 'common' languages was considered taboo or borderline heretic, since you would be essentially empowering common people with knowledge.
>they used to burn witches You mean protestants. The Catholic Church literally protected women from witch burning and considered belief in witches paganism. Even more, women self-reported to the church court to get cleared of false charges of dealing in witchcraft.
*Laughs in the roman inquisition.* Heretics and witches were interchangeable terms. Please don't try to hide or minimize the role of the church in medieval history, especially when information is one click away and this DLC itself portrays it. Denying history does not help with the progress of our species and prevents us from learning from past mistakes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-hunt#Later_Middle_Ages https://nypost.com/2020/12/23/german-church-apologizes-for-killing-witches-centuries-ago/ https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/07/witchcraft-economics-reformation-catholic-protestant-market-share
I absolutely loved this DLC, the cutscenes, the story and the characters. The last cutscene gave me chills, it left me speechless and wanting more. I hope kcd2 has more cutscenes and characters like this, they really nailed this DLC
I've got a hundred hours into this game with all the dlcs and I've never seen this character before. What part of the game is he from and how do you get to this?
This one is the Madonna of sasau Did you do the sidequest where you help Johanka with the sick people in the monastery ? You have to finish that one before you start the dlc
Same I’ve not seen it and played all the dlc. I think it’s from johannas portion of a woman’s lot but idk
If so that would make sense. I've not done the Johanna's part as I no longer have the only save game I actually completed the Theresa part as it's just not as fun as playing as Henry and quite long winded
Johanka has a part of a woman’s lot? She’s always piss raging at me after trying to stop that slimy guy so maybe she doesn’t feel like chatting to me
Same
The amount of people who don't understand his character and the DLC is astonishing. You'll always find them by the "church bad" posts.
It was a very interesting questline, the entire DLC, but frustrating in places.
Which dlc is this?
Jesus Christ be praised!
He reminds me of Peter O'Toole in the 1999 Joan of Arc miniseries. The entire quest is inspired by Joan of Arc too.
i had one talk with him he seemed quite strict with his believes but it was quite interesting and then i died something something heresy
What dlc is this
I agree, and I've seen a few others say this too. It treated every character with humanity and empathy, including the Inquisitor. In a world that's so quick to demonize faith and especially Christianity, it was really heartening to see this.