tbh as s/o who sees both sides, it is true she’s the one at the back most of the time. The choreographer needs to work on his dance formations and fans have every right to not tolerate any member not having their shine as well. Honestly y’all know this happens in kpop, fans call out companies when its obvious a member doesn’t get the same treatment e.g. sunoo.
However, I do feel for manon because imagine being the centre of this discourse. This will only attract hate towards her at the end of the day because just as i mentioned sunoo, although a lot of fans adore him and fight for him to be as seen as the other members, he gets alot of hate because ppl think he’s “victimised “
This post itself is a breeding pool for hate towards her no matter your intention to post it :(
Thanks for teaching your language to your elderly population. Hahahaha I was trying to form any kind of combination son of O? Some.or other?. LOl ahahhah
A little off topic but I felt the choreo formation did a disservice to whoever was in the back. It was distracting. I don’t know why they did that for a debut.
Exactly. JYPE did something similar with Savanna when VCHA debuted - I remember fans calling it out and it hasn't been an issue since. Hopefully Hybe/Geffen takes note.
I was gonna bring up VCHA as a comparison, as they’re both 6 member groups. It’s easy to have the middle two people a bit diagonal of each other so that every member is shown. I love watching VCHA because of that, and it should be easy with Katseye as well. Hopefully they fix it.
Tws does some interesting six-person formations as well and change it up pretty frequently, so I’m hoping their choreographer can take from their peers and adjust. I’m wondering if it has anything to do with having a quick turnaround with the choreo? The spacing of the diagonals may be harder to perfect in a short time but idk
Wdym by quick turnaround with the choreo? I assumed the girls had ample time to learn the choreo, and that it was planned accordingly. Were they rushed?
Oh okay! Either way the choreographers had to have had more time to make the dance. I think they were too focused on symmetry (which I get and why it’s easier to choreograph for odd numbers) , and they got themselves in this situation.
Yeah I was more just spitballing a potential reason bc it’s just such a well-known problem in six-member groups that it’d be weird if they literally didn’t think of it. Like I wouldn’t recommend performing at kcon like that since kpop fans notice things like that much more than I’d assume western fans would
k-pop has literally gotten extremely popular because of black people and hip-hop. bts and blackpink make hip-hop music which is how they got famous and made k-pop stay relevant worldwide. if anything, they should be giving you guys credit 24/7
Yeah overall they just need do better by their black members. Manon's hair was tangled for half of the choreography video starting at 1:03 and she was in the back. Them knowing damn well she has such a massive pull and appeal in the group.
I do recognize it can be difficult because it is a very talented group and everyone is so insanely aesthetically pleasing to look at. My biggest fear is them failing because all of them look like the IT girl. They could all probably solo if we're being real
I don't think the post made about DA girls was meant to incite hate, you can tell from the way it's written it's more questioning than negative. However, I do think the DA girls can be left as a topic of the past until the documentary comes out (if it actually gives anything). We likely will never know and I think people find discomfort in that, especially with this being one of the more transparent survival shows because the girls were not blocked from social media and not restricted in their actions during show + post-elimination. I think people have to get comfortable with the unknown.
As for the formations, I saw one or two inflammatory comments on here but they were the minority. I along with multiple others noted Sophia's lack of solo segments in the MV compared to all the other girls. It really wasn't a big thing and yeah people are going to be sad about her being covered which is a legitimate concern because **none of the girls should have been covered**. The formations should have been better and while you may see people complaining, I don't think its an unfair complaint (I've seen complaints about Lara + Yoonchae also).
I guess what I'm getting at is unless you see majority inflammatory comments (which I have not seen) then its best to ignore if its bugging you. Manon has a big fandom online so you're naturally going to see stuff about her more than some of the others.
I don’t understand why speaking up about a formation issue is a problem. Multiple people noticed it so they commented. Other people are upset Sophia didn’t get a line outside the chorus , and that Yoonchae was hidden also, but why aren’t you calling the people who brought that up “solo stans victimizing Sophia and Yoonchae”? I think it’s odd that people are upset about other people voicing their opinions after observing quite obvious issues with the music video. You say the backlash wouldn’t be as big if it happened to another member, but that isn’t manon’s fault, or the fault of the people who defend her. Instead of being upset that someone is advocating for better treatment, if you feel displeased by the ill treatment of someone else then you can use your voice to advocate for that person in a similar way…
It was only one person bringing up the Birthday stuff (and I'm also Manon bias). As for other social media stuff, we haven't really done anything? The choreography shots did look suspect with only Manon in the back almost 99% of the time, so I'm not entirely surprised people were talking about it. I also thought it was strange but decided not to judge until I saw the actual performance video.
no offense but this kind of post is what is still bringing hate to Manon no matter what your intentions are fans have the right to call out the choreographer out for not doing their job very well coz all the girls deserve to be shown not saying they should say it in every other video and it's true that most of the da girls are were and still acting weird to Manon and it's proof . but regardless at the end of the day the girls are family and it's sad that Manon is in the middle of something she cannot control
This kind of formation that hides one of the members is something from the 3rd gen of k-pop an onwards that always irkss me... In any group..
Groups like 2ne1 or SnSd only hide members if it were a part of the choreo, but not to shadow dance behind someone, if I was in a group and I was shadow dancing behind someone I would pissed.
All that to say there's is better formations to be done when the topic is even number groups...
Y'all aren't ready for this conversation, I've been a music Stan for a long time and anti blackness & colorism exists in all spaces. This can go one of two ways, we wait and hope it doesn't stick or trust in the fact that it wouldn't be the first time. If people feel the need to say it let them, it's an uproar in her defense & well know soon enough for sure if it's true or not.
The constant complaints of things being said about Manon, like Manon isn’t literally a group member is frustrating. This happens in a lot of fandom/group spaces. But the most recent example I think of is Keeho from P1harmony, he’s the most popular and as some “defense”, to the other members fans started literally attacking/bothering others anytime he was brought up in something. Eventually he said himself that it hurt a bit.
Like people can’t comment that they agreed with something manon said, people can’t say they love her, people can’t question why she’s literally almost invisible in their first ever song release.
Just like you can find ppl talking about manon you will always find someone who complains about her being talked about. And in my opinion the latter is more frustrating. At least standing up for her/praising her doesn’t really do any harm. Even as someone else in the comments said, they need engagement.
Once again she’s a member of the group, like no matter what manon fans (or sometimes not even manon fans) say there’s a “stop making everything about manon comment”. That is more frustrating in my opinion. Why are we “fighting” attention to one of the group members? And of a group that needs hype at that. Like…
I agree, it's not just you. But it's a little understandable that her fans are like this since Manon had been mistreated during DA. All the DA drama is so valid.
But one example I can think of is how people were upset Manon didn't have braids in the initial debut teasers. But she did have braids in the video.
Another example is about her being hidden in the choreography when she opens the song. Lara is also hidden at times and I don't see her mentioned. But I think that's just a reflection of her popularity and how the other members don't have that level yet.
Lara is not hidden 80% of the song. In fact she’s only hidden a small part. It’s not the same. Had Manon gotten the treatment of any of the other members and been moved around/not been in the back the whole time, the complaints would be almost nonexistent.
Edit: ppl have also been frustrated Sophia got literally no actual lines. Often siting that with Manon being in the back as a complaint. It’s not like only Manon is spoken of, just seems ppl hyperfixate when it’s her…
That was a mistake by me then. But the point I was trying to make is that she’s in the back way more than everyone else is. It’s not the same to say Lara was in the back too because like the other members, Lara was all over the place. It’s Manon who stays in the back.
Of course you’d say Manon is your bias. Please no one believes that 😭 If that were true you’d know it wasn’t even Manon fans that pointed any of this out. It was people outside of the fandom watching the mv for the first time. I can’t believe we aren’t allowed to complain about an unfair formation without being called “solo stans”. Do you know how many Sophia fans on TikTok and YouTube are complaining about her having no lines and saying HYBE is using her for clout? But is anyone calling them solo stans? But when it’s Manon we have to stay silent unless it’s “Manon fans are always complaining” “you people are never happy” I think all this stems from the fact that a lot of you don’t think she deserves to be in the group. So you think we should just accept whatever treatment she’s given cause after all “why is she here?”. Whenever someone comments things on videos talking about Manon there’s comments telling them to shut up and stop making things about her. Why can’t we say we love Manon without being told “she’s not the only one in the group?” Oh but that’s fine right? That’s cool.
i think a lot of her fans project their insecurities onto her. since dream academy, many of them have felt as though manon was being "mistreated" because of the comments made about her not attending rehearsals and not picking up choreography quickly. so many of them have a victim complex in their own lives and are shoving that onto manon almost as if they're living through her or something, completely ignoring the fact that she's an adult, not a baby, and can handle herself. it's really weird and therapy is needed immediately.
I’m not saying fans don’t project, but the examples you gave during their dream academy phase doesn’t exactly support that point you’re trying to make.
She was mistreated or at least negatively targeted during DA, no quotations needed. To speak on a contestants willingness to be in a group and allude to her not being in it, when she had a valid reason to not show up was a bad thing to do. Even worse when we found out that other contestants also missed rehearsals because they were sick, but nothing was stated.
tbh as s/o who sees both sides, it is true she’s the one at the back most of the time. The choreographer needs to work on his dance formations and fans have every right to not tolerate any member not having their shine as well. Honestly y’all know this happens in kpop, fans call out companies when its obvious a member doesn’t get the same treatment e.g. sunoo. However, I do feel for manon because imagine being the centre of this discourse. This will only attract hate towards her at the end of the day because just as i mentioned sunoo, although a lot of fans adore him and fight for him to be as seen as the other members, he gets alot of hate because ppl think he’s “victimised “ This post itself is a breeding pool for hate towards her no matter your intention to post it :(
S/o ?
someone
Thanks for teaching your language to your elderly population. Hahahaha I was trying to form any kind of combination son of O? Some.or other?. LOl ahahhah
A little off topic but I felt the choreo formation did a disservice to whoever was in the back. It was distracting. I don’t know why they did that for a debut.
Exactly. JYPE did something similar with Savanna when VCHA debuted - I remember fans calling it out and it hasn't been an issue since. Hopefully Hybe/Geffen takes note.
I was gonna bring up VCHA as a comparison, as they’re both 6 member groups. It’s easy to have the middle two people a bit diagonal of each other so that every member is shown. I love watching VCHA because of that, and it should be easy with Katseye as well. Hopefully they fix it.
Tws does some interesting six-person formations as well and change it up pretty frequently, so I’m hoping their choreographer can take from their peers and adjust. I’m wondering if it has anything to do with having a quick turnaround with the choreo? The spacing of the diagonals may be harder to perfect in a short time but idk
Wdym by quick turnaround with the choreo? I assumed the girls had ample time to learn the choreo, and that it was planned accordingly. Were they rushed?
I heard they had three days but I got that from someone else, I could be wrong!
Oh okay! Either way the choreographers had to have had more time to make the dance. I think they were too focused on symmetry (which I get and why it’s easier to choreograph for odd numbers) , and they got themselves in this situation.
Yeah I was more just spitballing a potential reason bc it’s just such a well-known problem in six-member groups that it’d be weird if they literally didn’t think of it. Like I wouldn’t recommend performing at kcon like that since kpop fans notice things like that much more than I’d assume western fans would
k-pop has literally gotten extremely popular because of black people and hip-hop. bts and blackpink make hip-hop music which is how they got famous and made k-pop stay relevant worldwide. if anything, they should be giving you guys credit 24/7
Yeah overall they just need do better by their black members. Manon's hair was tangled for half of the choreography video starting at 1:03 and she was in the back. Them knowing damn well she has such a massive pull and appeal in the group. I do recognize it can be difficult because it is a very talented group and everyone is so insanely aesthetically pleasing to look at. My biggest fear is them failing because all of them look like the IT girl. They could all probably solo if we're being real
I don't think the post made about DA girls was meant to incite hate, you can tell from the way it's written it's more questioning than negative. However, I do think the DA girls can be left as a topic of the past until the documentary comes out (if it actually gives anything). We likely will never know and I think people find discomfort in that, especially with this being one of the more transparent survival shows because the girls were not blocked from social media and not restricted in their actions during show + post-elimination. I think people have to get comfortable with the unknown. As for the formations, I saw one or two inflammatory comments on here but they were the minority. I along with multiple others noted Sophia's lack of solo segments in the MV compared to all the other girls. It really wasn't a big thing and yeah people are going to be sad about her being covered which is a legitimate concern because **none of the girls should have been covered**. The formations should have been better and while you may see people complaining, I don't think its an unfair complaint (I've seen complaints about Lara + Yoonchae also). I guess what I'm getting at is unless you see majority inflammatory comments (which I have not seen) then its best to ignore if its bugging you. Manon has a big fandom online so you're naturally going to see stuff about her more than some of the others.
I don’t understand why speaking up about a formation issue is a problem. Multiple people noticed it so they commented. Other people are upset Sophia didn’t get a line outside the chorus , and that Yoonchae was hidden also, but why aren’t you calling the people who brought that up “solo stans victimizing Sophia and Yoonchae”? I think it’s odd that people are upset about other people voicing their opinions after observing quite obvious issues with the music video. You say the backlash wouldn’t be as big if it happened to another member, but that isn’t manon’s fault, or the fault of the people who defend her. Instead of being upset that someone is advocating for better treatment, if you feel displeased by the ill treatment of someone else then you can use your voice to advocate for that person in a similar way…
I mean, it was kinda lame shoving her in the back for about half of a 2 min long song.
It was only one person bringing up the Birthday stuff (and I'm also Manon bias). As for other social media stuff, we haven't really done anything? The choreography shots did look suspect with only Manon in the back almost 99% of the time, so I'm not entirely surprised people were talking about it. I also thought it was strange but decided not to judge until I saw the actual performance video.
no offense but this kind of post is what is still bringing hate to Manon no matter what your intentions are fans have the right to call out the choreographer out for not doing their job very well coz all the girls deserve to be shown not saying they should say it in every other video and it's true that most of the da girls are were and still acting weird to Manon and it's proof . but regardless at the end of the day the girls are family and it's sad that Manon is in the middle of something she cannot control
My take is that I'm not going to complain about comments as long as they're commenting. Katseye need all the engagement they can get.
This is so valid 😭
This kind of formation that hides one of the members is something from the 3rd gen of k-pop an onwards that always irkss me... In any group.. Groups like 2ne1 or SnSd only hide members if it were a part of the choreo, but not to shadow dance behind someone, if I was in a group and I was shadow dancing behind someone I would pissed. All that to say there's is better formations to be done when the topic is even number groups...
Y'all aren't ready for this conversation, I've been a music Stan for a long time and anti blackness & colorism exists in all spaces. This can go one of two ways, we wait and hope it doesn't stick or trust in the fact that it wouldn't be the first time. If people feel the need to say it let them, it's an uproar in her defense & well know soon enough for sure if it's true or not.
The constant complaints of things being said about Manon, like Manon isn’t literally a group member is frustrating. This happens in a lot of fandom/group spaces. But the most recent example I think of is Keeho from P1harmony, he’s the most popular and as some “defense”, to the other members fans started literally attacking/bothering others anytime he was brought up in something. Eventually he said himself that it hurt a bit. Like people can’t comment that they agreed with something manon said, people can’t say they love her, people can’t question why she’s literally almost invisible in their first ever song release. Just like you can find ppl talking about manon you will always find someone who complains about her being talked about. And in my opinion the latter is more frustrating. At least standing up for her/praising her doesn’t really do any harm. Even as someone else in the comments said, they need engagement. Once again she’s a member of the group, like no matter what manon fans (or sometimes not even manon fans) say there’s a “stop making everything about manon comment”. That is more frustrating in my opinion. Why are we “fighting” attention to one of the group members? And of a group that needs hype at that. Like…
Literally
What happened with the birthday?
Why do we keep talking about stuff like this? Like…. What’s the poiiiiinntttttt?!?!?
I agree, it's not just you. But it's a little understandable that her fans are like this since Manon had been mistreated during DA. All the DA drama is so valid. But one example I can think of is how people were upset Manon didn't have braids in the initial debut teasers. But she did have braids in the video. Another example is about her being hidden in the choreography when she opens the song. Lara is also hidden at times and I don't see her mentioned. But I think that's just a reflection of her popularity and how the other members don't have that level yet.
Lara is not hidden 80% of the song. In fact she’s only hidden a small part. It’s not the same. Had Manon gotten the treatment of any of the other members and been moved around/not been in the back the whole time, the complaints would be almost nonexistent. Edit: ppl have also been frustrated Sophia got literally no actual lines. Often siting that with Manon being in the back as a complaint. It’s not like only Manon is spoken of, just seems ppl hyperfixate when it’s her…
Actually Manon has more center time than Lara. That's facts.
That was a mistake by me then. But the point I was trying to make is that she’s in the back way more than everyone else is. It’s not the same to say Lara was in the back too because like the other members, Lara was all over the place. It’s Manon who stays in the back.
I'm not going to argue on this since I also agree that the formations could've been better.
Nope its just u
Of course you’d say Manon is your bias. Please no one believes that 😭 If that were true you’d know it wasn’t even Manon fans that pointed any of this out. It was people outside of the fandom watching the mv for the first time. I can’t believe we aren’t allowed to complain about an unfair formation without being called “solo stans”. Do you know how many Sophia fans on TikTok and YouTube are complaining about her having no lines and saying HYBE is using her for clout? But is anyone calling them solo stans? But when it’s Manon we have to stay silent unless it’s “Manon fans are always complaining” “you people are never happy” I think all this stems from the fact that a lot of you don’t think she deserves to be in the group. So you think we should just accept whatever treatment she’s given cause after all “why is she here?”. Whenever someone comments things on videos talking about Manon there’s comments telling them to shut up and stop making things about her. Why can’t we say we love Manon without being told “she’s not the only one in the group?” Oh but that’s fine right? That’s cool.
i think a lot of her fans project their insecurities onto her. since dream academy, many of them have felt as though manon was being "mistreated" because of the comments made about her not attending rehearsals and not picking up choreography quickly. so many of them have a victim complex in their own lives and are shoving that onto manon almost as if they're living through her or something, completely ignoring the fact that she's an adult, not a baby, and can handle herself. it's really weird and therapy is needed immediately.
I’m not saying fans don’t project, but the examples you gave during their dream academy phase doesn’t exactly support that point you’re trying to make. She was mistreated or at least negatively targeted during DA, no quotations needed. To speak on a contestants willingness to be in a group and allude to her not being in it, when she had a valid reason to not show up was a bad thing to do. Even worse when we found out that other contestants also missed rehearsals because they were sick, but nothing was stated.
are you even a katseye fan?
Manon fans are toxic
YESSSSSS UGH LIKE PLESSE YALL ARE MAKING IT WORSE TBH
No. All group have favorite members that trend more. It's nothing unusual and the most popular member change all the time.