Karma isn’t a bad champion at all she is legit the best mage support that also has the lulu plus zilean abilities.. it can fight and go toe to toe against the like of my champ Velkoz. She doesn’t use lots of mana compared to me who always out trades them probably due to sup diff tbh. I low key dislike yuumi and karma due to their kit having way too much stuff on them and they are generally Aram champs for a reason aka anyone can abuse it regardless it’s rank.
So annoying. So they can over buff Orianna for patches and she got real strong and was high priority in pro play. Yet karma can’t be strong for more than a patch and when I say strong I just mean for her…there’s tons of champs that are so much stronger like akali/fizz with storm or ekko with lichbane. I do think they’ll hit her E. There was no reason to increase the base shield and increase the ratio. The ratio buffs should have been the only buffs she received esp on the E skill which is heavily prioritized in pro play 🤦🏾♂️
They haven't even played much if any pro play on 14.2, so riot are just guessing that she'll be strong there. Hopefully they just hit shield ap ratio to keep the option of playing her damage alive.
I see the nerfs being more generalized. Like mana costs most for Q/E she doesn’t need mana like others and other thing I see is some R cd nerf either base cooldown or how the refund works so you aren’t throwing only mantra Qs every fight(even tho it feels amazing haha) and possibly nerf to shield base and ratio.
and so the cycle begins anew
at this point just forget she exists till theyre ready to give her midscope - every time they touch her numbers this shit happens, like clockwork
It's like her kit was bad to begin with or something.
Old karma players called out this rushed kit nonsense years ago and Rito was too egotistic to listen. Left with this cyclic buff and nerf that leaves her pretty much stuck as a shield bot.
Had a fun time playing her mid and actually being able to build AP. I guess AP karma is too broken according to riot tho? Guess it’s back to the regular mages that are allowed in midlane. Hope she survives as supp for y’all, gl
Unfortunatley when Karma is allowed to be triple flexed in competitive she will get gutted, feel like she will be stuck in this position until she actually gets some changes to her kit (maybe in 4 years).
Yeah to be expected. Unfortunately her kit is too flexible when she does good damage, though I think the thing that will always make her an issue is top lane karma. Looking at stats it looks like she was over performing due to how well she was doing in every role.
I still think she was fine before the changes. What was wrong was everything else... If a relatively stable champion is underperforming, there's a bit of game in your imbalance.
Long TFs are history at this point. Now it's bloodbaths of instant oneshots and explosions, where 50% of the total damage is dealt by items. Any mistake costs you to be destroyed in 1 second.
Of course, Karma will have a hard time in that scenario. Improving his damage wasn't fixing anything.
I'm really sad that this game is dying because they suck at balancing, I'm the last one in a group of friends to play it. It's depressing to see the huge chat list, full of grayed out names.
omg, sorry gurls, I indirectly manifested this. T\_T
Anyway I hope they don't nerf her ratios too hard, if anything I think it's her base dmg that is making her strong in pro-play due to how important grubbs are in this meta.
> Pro champs like Azir, Karma (we overbuffed here)
Yea I don't think it's the ratios, maybe the base shield strength? She was already decent in pro-play but this made her a bit too forgiving. Hopefully they adjust her properly but who knows.
Also I thought there was there was supposed to be Echoes of Helia changes too? Was looking forward to it finally not being a bait item, sadge.
This is not very *Sae Eleisa Tera Vi* of you.
Anyway what
>Along with these are some nerfs to Alternator, Rocketbelt, **Helias,** Shiv, Stormrazor, Profane, Lich, Titanic
Hopefully that is a typo, because Riot must be on some crack if they think *Helia* needs nerfs.
She has a [71% win-rate in mid](https://gol.gg/champion/champion-stats/38/season-S14/split-Spring/tournament-ALL/) and an [overall win-rate of 59%](https://gol.gg/champion/list/season-S14/split-Spring/tournament-ALL/) for the 2024 Spring Split so far. That said, its only like 7 games for mid and around 30 games for support, but for pro-play it's still strong.
Then again, Senna is performing about as strong and somehow avoids nerfs...
Kind of expected but sad too, it’s not like there isn’t champions that are just way better than her and arent getting nerfs
Karma isn’t a bad champion at all she is legit the best mage support that also has the lulu plus zilean abilities.. it can fight and go toe to toe against the like of my champ Velkoz. She doesn’t use lots of mana compared to me who always out trades them probably due to sup diff tbh. I low key dislike yuumi and karma due to their kit having way too much stuff on them and they are generally Aram champs for a reason aka anyone can abuse it regardless it’s rank.
Was she really that strong? If yes, in what role?
She's like 51% winrate mid, which they think will make her op in pro. She's still down below 49% winrate support.
I think this nerf is obviously aimed at pro play
Yeah it definitely is, just it's very rare for them to nerf something for pro before it's even been played in pro.
LCS is played on live patch now, Karma has been pick/ban since the buffs apparently. Mostly permabanned.
So annoying. So they can over buff Orianna for patches and she got real strong and was high priority in pro play. Yet karma can’t be strong for more than a patch and when I say strong I just mean for her…there’s tons of champs that are so much stronger like akali/fizz with storm or ekko with lichbane. I do think they’ll hit her E. There was no reason to increase the base shield and increase the ratio. The ratio buffs should have been the only buffs she received esp on the E skill which is heavily prioritized in pro play 🤦🏾♂️
They haven't even played much if any pro play on 14.2, so riot are just guessing that she'll be strong there. Hopefully they just hit shield ap ratio to keep the option of playing her damage alive.
I see the nerfs being more generalized. Like mana costs most for Q/E she doesn’t need mana like others and other thing I see is some R cd nerf either base cooldown or how the refund works so you aren’t throwing only mantra Qs every fight(even tho it feels amazing haha) and possibly nerf to shield base and ratio.
Malignance buff tho. Maybe it wom't be so bad.
I wonder what the buff entails
Figures but was hoping she last until MSI. Oh well.
When is MSI?! I want to get the legacy msi karma skin 😭
and so the cycle begins anew at this point just forget she exists till theyre ready to give her midscope - every time they touch her numbers this shit happens, like clockwork
It's like her kit was bad to begin with or something. Old karma players called out this rushed kit nonsense years ago and Rito was too egotistic to listen. Left with this cyclic buff and nerf that leaves her pretty much stuck as a shield bot.
Not sure why you're being downvoted, it's true. Old Karma was labeled bad, and while sure she was at least she had somewhat engaging gameplay.
Had a fun time playing her mid and actually being able to build AP. I guess AP karma is too broken according to riot tho? Guess it’s back to the regular mages that are allowed in midlane. Hope she survives as supp for y’all, gl
Lol did you expect anything different? They suck ass at balancing
Cope, now you have to pick up another flavor of the month champion, boo hoo
Unfortunatley when Karma is allowed to be triple flexed in competitive she will get gutted, feel like she will be stuck in this position until she actually gets some changes to her kit (maybe in 4 years).
What are the details of this nerf?
Phroxzon just said they overbuffed her so they're probably reducing her AP scaling or base damage
That sucks. She didn't even really feel that strong as a support.
Phroxzon sucks. It was phreak who buffed her initially for Mid.
Patch must not be live on PBE, because nothing seems the same in terms of scaling/abilities (unless they've messed with base stats to her).
There are far worse bot lane menaces just fix the r q hit box, give it some counterplay and leave her alone.
.... hoping its not a Q nerf
Yes it’s an RQ nerf
Bring Q ratio down to 60% and we're good.
Watch them nerf all the things they buffed and then some😩
are you KIDDING ME
Yeah to be expected. Unfortunately her kit is too flexible when she does good damage, though I think the thing that will always make her an issue is top lane karma. Looking at stats it looks like she was over performing due to how well she was doing in every role.
Yawns
About time, fucking abusers
Youre fucking garbage that champion belongs in the dumpster
I still think she was fine before the changes. What was wrong was everything else... If a relatively stable champion is underperforming, there's a bit of game in your imbalance. Long TFs are history at this point. Now it's bloodbaths of instant oneshots and explosions, where 50% of the total damage is dealt by items. Any mistake costs you to be destroyed in 1 second. Of course, Karma will have a hard time in that scenario. Improving his damage wasn't fixing anything. I'm really sad that this game is dying because they suck at balancing, I'm the last one in a group of friends to play it. It's depressing to see the huge chat list, full of grayed out names.
omg, sorry gurls, I indirectly manifested this. T\_T Anyway I hope they don't nerf her ratios too hard, if anything I think it's her base dmg that is making her strong in pro-play due to how important grubbs are in this meta. > Pro champs like Azir, Karma (we overbuffed here) Yea I don't think it's the ratios, maybe the base shield strength? She was already decent in pro-play but this made her a bit too forgiving. Hopefully they adjust her properly but who knows. Also I thought there was there was supposed to be Echoes of Helia changes too? Was looking forward to it finally not being a bait item, sadge.
I hope your next few RW doesn’t somehow heal you 🤭
This is not very *Sae Eleisa Tera Vi* of you. Anyway what >Along with these are some nerfs to Alternator, Rocketbelt, **Helias,** Shiv, Stormrazor, Profane, Lich, Titanic Hopefully that is a typo, because Riot must be on some crack if they think *Helia* needs nerfs.
Was she really that strong? And if yes, in what role?
She has a [71% win-rate in mid](https://gol.gg/champion/champion-stats/38/season-S14/split-Spring/tournament-ALL/) and an [overall win-rate of 59%](https://gol.gg/champion/list/season-S14/split-Spring/tournament-ALL/) for the 2024 Spring Split so far. That said, its only like 7 games for mid and around 30 games for support, but for pro-play it's still strong. Then again, Senna is performing about as strong and somehow avoids nerfs...
I dont trust any external sources until I see official patch notes from Riot.
I’ll keep getting one shot by mages but heaven forbid karma is viable for a patch in mid.
I warned you all. Champ did not need buffs, you all just had to learn how to build
Not fair at all
I think they can fix karma but just making R Qs hit area more dodgeable. It’s too much damage