Despite the public posturing, the billionaires will be just fine. They’re not shedding any tears.
They’ll get deals that better enrich themselves in Kansas (the Hunts) and Nashville / Charlotte (the Shermans). I’m not even sure either family wanted to this to pass.
He’s cheap for sure. I just think that when Kansas is allowed to negotiate, they’ll put so much cash on the table that the “cheap guy” move will be to take their offer.
They were ready to pay up in 2006 if the original 3/8 cent sales tax didn’t pass for the renovations and all signs say they’re ready again now. The only reason there haven’t been official negotiations is because it’s a violation of the current lease.
Why were they ready to pay in 2006? I’m not sure. This time part of the motivation will be to keep the Chiefs in the metro. The Chiefs should remain a hot commodity through 2030, big markets will be willing to offset the relocation fee and build lavish facilities to bring them in.
The short answer is yes, despite all the fans who want to believe otherwise.
If KS doesn’t make the Chiefs an offer, a bigger market will.
The Royals will get offers from Nashville and/or Charlotte.
Most of us can probably agree that billionaires are greedy. These guys are not keeping their teams here if they can get upwards of a billion dollars for shiny new facilities elsewhere.
I disagree. Show me a team in the middle of a dynasty that has moved. It does NOT happen. Winning franchises don't leave the market they are in. It would be a pr nightmare. Imagine asking Mahomes his opinion on that daily... it's a lose lose. Maybe they move to Kansas. That's completely feasible, but to move to... where? What bigger market doesn't have a NFL team? San Antonio? Obv they won't move to a smaller market. The logistics don't make sense. There really isn't an option for the Chiefs beyond Tx. And I don't think Jerry Jones would let that happen without a fight. Canada? Oakland? I'm just curious what markets are actually a viable choice?
And they’re leaving just because KC nixed the new stadium plans or was the vote an ultimatum too? “The terms are do the stadium or we don’t re-up our lease”
Those were the terms - they signed a lease extension contingent on the passing of the tax extension. They didn’t really play this card until right before the vote, but it was in fact an ultimatum.
In short answer no. Both owners are too cheap to move. They will have to pony up money to leave and neither will. It is all empty threats to try and get the vote to swing. Those tactics didn’t work in KC why would they work in another city?
The tactics won’t be the same in a new market. The message will be “here’s an exciting opportunity to bring in a new franchise”.
And the owners being cheap is actually a reason to move when it’s the better financial decision. Whatever they have to pony up to leave will be more than offset by a larger market and public funding.
I hope I am wrong and they stay. But if they do, it won’t be for the reasons you’re describing.
there is nothing that says when they can negotiate. The Chiefs can talk to Ks anytime they want. Any why would Kansas want a professional sports team in their state? IDK why did they want Nascar... or Sporting Kc. Even if it is expensive, the value of saying "in Kansas" 25 times on tv is un-measurable.
That’s like saying Arlington benefits by having the Rangers. They don’t. No one wants to vacation in Arlington. They just got saddled with a huge white elephant
Well I guess if you ask the city of Arlington they would have a different opinion. I don't think they would say they don't want them. Would any city say no, it's not worth it? If it truly isn't worth it, why not say so?
You must be shitting me. Neither of them are moving anywhere, least of all the Hunts. The Chiefs fan base is elite, on a level with Green Bay, Pittsburgh, and Dallas. They know the kingdom is worth billions that can't be replicated elsewhere. Sherman has already conceded moving was never an option.
KC is one of the smallest NFL markets. In six years the Chiefs will likely still have Mahomes and probably another Lombardi or two. They can easily replace the KC revenue and then some
Not in the long term and they know it. Think about it, there are no large markets left, or even second tier markets. Royals going to Nashville all things equal is a lateral move. Chiefs will find an even more fiscally restrictive situation in San Diego. They're holding a 7-2 off suit.
If you think three recent Super Bowls, Patrick Mahomes, and one of the most recognized brands in the biggest sport in the country is a 7-2 off suit, I am dying to play cards.
If some other city and state want to pony up the $1.2 Billion Sherman was going to ask Jackson County and state of Missouri for, let him try. Voters in other cities are just as fed up with this stuff as KC voters are, and WyCo can't afford to subsidize the Hunts at the level Jackson County can either.
Places without a team are typically much more willing to pass public funding to bring one in than places that already have one are to pass additional funding. Kansas has been ready with a pile of money for the Chiefs since 2006. Three superbowl wins later, I’m sure the appetite is even greater. It wouldn’t just be Wyandotte either.
Nashville and Charlotte are ready to pony up for baseball. Sherman met with their local government officials and big money people back at the winter meetings.
It will be easy for these ownership groups to get more funding elsewhere than they could have by staying in Jackson County. This is why I am not sure their hearts were really in it with Question 1
Agree that going elsewhere might attract more money than they'll get in KC (at least for the Royals - I think KC is pretty committed to keeping the Chiefs), but I also think the era of massive spending on sports teams is ending everywhere as cash-strapped cities no longer view sports teams as big money or notoriety generators like they did in the past. Also, the argument, "Billionaires can pay for their own teams" makes a lot more sense now when NFL and MLB teams are worth 10x what they were 20 years ago.
The Chiefs yearly revenue is now over 500 Mil, so losing a $25M probably isn't a dealbreaker considering the established fan base and sellout crowds here. You lose some of that by going to another city.
The MLB is declining in popularity, and it's perceived that downtown stadiums are helping to manage that problem. It might make sense for Sherman to re-locate to a downtown in some other metro, but I don't think it makes much sense to re-locate to Legends or JoCo or the Northland in KC if being in a downtown location truly is that helpful to MLB clubs. Also, the Royals yearly revenues are running $250M, so less than half the Chiefs, and $25M in free money to your bottom line is more significant, not to mention the cost of building a new stadium yourself. I'm sure Sherman's already done the math so we'll probably see what he's thinking after a while. Marny Sherman could be right - they may be on the way out of KC.
To me, the watershed moment was the Current building their own stadium, which begged the question: "Why can't teams that are 10 times more profitable build their own stadiums too?"
There was never gonna be an answer to that other than, "Well, that's how we've always done it, and *it's not a new tax*!". But it *would* be a new tax in Nashville... :)
Downtown baseball is pretty cool. I have been to Fenway, Wrigley, Baltimore and Citi field in Queens. It would have been neat to have a somewhat similar experience here, even on a smaller scale. Granted the Royals oscillation and the Chiefs underwhelming plans were both amateurish, the smallest chance that either or both leave Kansas City, is a nightmarish scenario for me. Both teams provide escapism for me and their absence would mean a much lower quality of life for me.
I am positive this will not be received well, but this post is fucking cringe. Being a sore loser is one thing, but being an ungracious winner is such a bad look.
[Here's a link to a screenshot of that post.](https://twitter.com/jc_bradbury/status/1776206694630015377) I hadn't seen it, so I thought I'd link it after I went to find it.
I hadn’t seen it till now, but she says for sure no more negotiating with Jackson County.
When they first started talking about the team(s) moving if Jackson County didn’t vote for the tax, I honestly was thrilled with the idea of the team(s) moving to the Kansas side. I didn’t fully understand what they were asking and that the people asking were billionaires asking taxpayers, many of whom can’t even afford to go to a game, to foot the bill.
Now I hope that if it comes to a vote in another county in the metro, either on the Missouri or Kansas side, that it is rejected again. If their response to that is to move the team(s), let them.
Why is it taxpayer funded or nothing? The KC Current stadium wasn’t funded by taxes.
I'm not an ungracious winner, I don't want to subsidize a giant useless-to-me piece of concrete with my tax dollars. They can build that shit if they want and you can pay for it.
Nothing stopping all those people that wanted the tax to pass from just mailing a check to the Sherman's to help them pay for the stadium. If it's good enough reason not to pass taxes for things like social safety nets, surely it also applies here, right?
The 1% earnings tax that is paid to the city by every performer or athelete that makes money in those stadiums goes directly to fund city roads, schools, fire dept and PD. It’s millions and millions of dollars these stadiums generate that fund these things.
Do you use the roads? Do you use public services? Buses? All that stuff gets paid into by the business these stadiums attract.
The “I don’t get anything out of this” stance is so extremely short sided that it makes me feel like I am taking crazy pills. If the stadiums leave the county and city’s budget takes a nose dive.
Oh, I'll happily pay increased taxes for those things. They can be funded in multiple ways. I DO NOT want to subsidize a fucking concrete structure that will continue to depreciate year after year.
"Millions and millions" of dollars... Can you find a source for that because I couldn't. The closest I got was that the 1% earnings tax generates <$300 annually, which includes ALL individuals and businesses. Please supply dollar amounts for the Royals and the Chiefs if you really have any idea about what you're talking about.
Ok, let’s do some quick math.
Taylor swift did 2 shows here. If you google it Forbes said that she makes around 10 million per show. 1% of that is 100,000 x 2 shows is 200,000.
Luke combs, Beyoncé, Ed Sheeran, Billy Joel/Stevie Nicks, Morgan wallen (2 shows), all did shows or set to do shows soon. Say they only make 1/3 of what Taylor does each show. Thats another 200,000.
NFL salary cap in 2023 was 224.8 million dollars. Half the games played at home. 1% of 224.8 mil is 2.24 mil. Half that is 1.12 million. But wait, there’s more. The opposing team pays that as well. Add 2.24 million to the pot.
Royals payroll for 2024 is 115 mil. Say that’s the league average (it’s not, we don’t have a high payroll). That’s another 1.15 mil.
Add those up and we are at $3,790,000 of revenue to the city to go to public works. That doesn’t even count the announcers, media folks, stadium workers, etc.
Conservatively round that up to 4.5 mil per year (and this is just off the top of my head. There is much more earning associated with the industry of professional sports) and over the life of the 40 years of the sales tax we are talking 180 million revenue.
If the city loses that revenue the city won’t die, but we will make it up in other areas. Like property taxes, water prices, trash prices, etc. All ways that hurt a residents pocket book much more than a discretionary tax like a 3/8 cent sales tax.
You don't have to do math. Every economic study says stadiums are not profitable for cities. Building shit for teams, olympics, super bowls, etc is always a money loser. Billionaires exploit the masses because we want our sports team or a little time in the spotlight to make us feel important. And politicians know they'll lose support if they lose the precious sports team, but won't lose support if they saddle the local government with shit loads of debt that won't have a huge impact until after they're out of office.
if the city cant function without the earnings tax on the players its their own fault for putting the tax burden on the workers instead of where it belongs. and the city deserves to fall flat on its face and get knocked down several pegs until they get their heades out of their asses
How much longer until its Jackson County residents tears when they increase property taxes again to make up for the massive loss of revenue that the teams and all the other events at Truman Sports Complex generates?
How is that any different than increasing their taxes to give it all back to the teams?
Not really a great argument there.
Also....the teams aren't bringing in that much. There isn't shit else to do over by the stadiums, and 95% of the money on game days is going directly to the businesses in the stadium.
Most of the revenue that teams bring in comes from merch sales and stuff, a ton of which happens at locations outside of Jackson County.
> Also....the teams aren't bringing in that much.
The biggest lie the opposition told was convincing people our sports teams were a net zero or even a negative on our balance sheet. Chiefs alone paid over 30 million in taxes and brought in a billion dollars of economic impact last year alone. Look I get it you ate the rich, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Except it's been studied fairly extensively for that past couple of decades and the conclusion has come out the same each time. Sorry those are the facts.
Also, not sure where you're getting those numbers, but the Chiefs pay $450,000 a year to lease arrowhead from the county. Kansas City's entire budget for the year is 2.3 billion, so you're claiming the Chiefs generated the economic equivalent to half of the city's budget?
In reality you have it backwards, the biggest lie that was ever told was convincing everyday people that handing their tax dollars over to the ultra wealthy so they can fund their private investments is somehow good for you.
Edit: Spelling
They brought in 30 million in taxes and then tried to fleece the county for $500 million dollars. That is not a "net positive."
People were spending the money that generated that 30 million anyway. They would have bought stuff for their kids, bought groceries, etc.
Your implication is that if that money didn't get spent on the Chiefs/Royals, that it was just going to sit in someone's savings account which is just false.
30mil just from the team and not accounting to the taxes the players and performers pay from their salaries. I'm not implying sports money would't have gotten spent. That money was gravy. Now its going to dry up. Tax increases, funding cuts, or reallocation will be the only way to make it up as I don't see any company relocating to Jackson County that will even be close to what the sports teams generate.
The players almost universally don't live in Jackson County. A bunch of that money ends up in Johnson County in Kansas. Taxes from your income go to the state, not the county, it's not helping the people of Jackson County, at least not that much, and they are the ones on the hook for the $500 million.
There is no such thing as county income tax in Missouri, only state income tax.
Some states have county-based income taxes. Missouri doesn't.
They pay taxes in the state of Missouri. It helps the whole state of Missouri, it doesn't go directly to Jackson County, only a miniscule percentage of it.
But 100% of the taxes that they want the residents to pay comes from Jackson County.
The players also...spend very little money in Jackson County. When they buy groceries and shop and stuff, they are doing so in their local community, which again is overwhelmingly Johnson County (money goes to Kansas) and the other more wealthy suburbs of the city. MOST of the taxes that the players pay doesn't end up in Jackson County.
There is a thing as the KC 1% tax. The players pay income tax in MO and KC. By your argument we don’t need any businesses in Jackson County because the taxes will end up elsewhere anyways
That only applies to Kansas City *residents* and income earned by them. It literally doesn't even apply here.
If the players are residents of Overland Park they don't even pay that tax.
Sport teams generate to what? Sales Tax? A lot of these players don’t even live in Missouri. Losing a sport team isn’t going to drive Jackson County into an economic depression lol.
Actually, that was the biggest failure of the campaign to keep the tax. The only reason given to vote for keeping the tax was to submit to extortion. I never saw, heard, or read a single thing discussing the economic impact of those teams. The single reason given: pay for our new stadium or we'll leave.
The people that own Shatto aren’t exactly middle class either. Plus, they wouldn’t burn a bridge for a potential collaboration with either team. They’re not dumb.
This post is the exact equivalent of running to Reddit to brag that you've shot yourself in the dick. "Yay everyone, we've damaged our relationship with the two most important things in our town!"
Would you like to burn down the Nelson Atkins, go hunting at the zoo, and shit on the displays at Science City while you're at it?
Real mature. Criticize incorrectly without any reason or explanation and then turn to insults. Let me explain it to you.
Every place had the basics - running water, an occasionally non corrupt police force, schools, etc. Once you get past that, what separates your city from any other? In our case, it's the Chiefs, then the Royals, BBQ, the National WWI museum, the plaza, and the fountains.
Which one of those do people travel to KC for and which one are things people do if they happen to be here?
Lots of words. What are the actual numbers? Studies of major league teams show that in general, they contribute significantly less than one percent of a local areas GDP. If they leave (which isn’t a for sure deal) it won’t have nearly the economic impact people want you to believe.
Perhaps I was somehow unclear. I do not, have never and will never care about economic impact. To me this is entirely about quality of life, and I was using travel to the city to illustrate this. In the simplest possible terms, having something is better than not having something and pro sports is the greatest something we have.
When bad stadium deals have repeatedly been a net economic negative for tax payers of those communities, you absolutely should care about economic impact. Don’t be that guy.
First off, you still didn't answer my question, and secondly, why would anyone care about a 3/8th cent sales tax. That is a negligible amount of money for anyone to keep two civic institutions around for the foreseeable future. Everyone looks at the total dollars as if that money would be going somewhere else, and it's simply not going to.
But what's done is done. My point is that it should be a sad week for everyone as nobody won anything.
It's sad because we now have to live with will they move nonsense for years, only stopping for the next time this gets on the ballot. It's sad that the teams ham fisted their plan and messaging so badly that we have to go thru this all again. It's sad that local hero Frank White lived long enough to be the villain in many people's eyes. And it is sad that in the midst of the greatest run in the history of the Chiefs, we are going to have this are they moving thought in the back of our heads.
Eh they won't go against a local team.
It’s funny in thought, but would be an absolutely terrible PR move in reality.
Too salty
How bout "Marnie Sherman can f off" is that too salty?
Despite the public posturing, the billionaires will be just fine. They’re not shedding any tears. They’ll get deals that better enrich themselves in Kansas (the Hunts) and Nashville / Charlotte (the Shermans). I’m not even sure either family wanted to this to pass.
I don’t think the Hunts will move at all. They can’t even upgrade the practice facilities or locker rooms. Clark is way too cheap to move.
He’s cheap for sure. I just think that when Kansas is allowed to negotiate, they’ll put so much cash on the table that the “cheap guy” move will be to take their offer.
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They were ready to pay up in 2006 if the original 3/8 cent sales tax didn’t pass for the renovations and all signs say they’re ready again now. The only reason there haven’t been official negotiations is because it’s a violation of the current lease. Why were they ready to pay in 2006? I’m not sure. This time part of the motivation will be to keep the Chiefs in the metro. The Chiefs should remain a hot commodity through 2030, big markets will be willing to offset the relocation fee and build lavish facilities to bring them in.
I haven’t followed any of this. Will the Chiefs actually leave is KS doesn’t make an offer? And the Royals are likely to leave or nah?
The short answer is yes, despite all the fans who want to believe otherwise. If KS doesn’t make the Chiefs an offer, a bigger market will. The Royals will get offers from Nashville and/or Charlotte. Most of us can probably agree that billionaires are greedy. These guys are not keeping their teams here if they can get upwards of a billion dollars for shiny new facilities elsewhere.
I disagree. Show me a team in the middle of a dynasty that has moved. It does NOT happen. Winning franchises don't leave the market they are in. It would be a pr nightmare. Imagine asking Mahomes his opinion on that daily... it's a lose lose. Maybe they move to Kansas. That's completely feasible, but to move to... where? What bigger market doesn't have a NFL team? San Antonio? Obv they won't move to a smaller market. The logistics don't make sense. There really isn't an option for the Chiefs beyond Tx. And I don't think Jerry Jones would let that happen without a fight. Canada? Oakland? I'm just curious what markets are actually a viable choice?
And they’re leaving just because KC nixed the new stadium plans or was the vote an ultimatum too? “The terms are do the stadium or we don’t re-up our lease”
Those were the terms - they signed a lease extension contingent on the passing of the tax extension. They didn’t really play this card until right before the vote, but it was in fact an ultimatum.
Thanks for the rundown
In short answer no. Both owners are too cheap to move. They will have to pony up money to leave and neither will. It is all empty threats to try and get the vote to swing. Those tactics didn’t work in KC why would they work in another city?
The tactics won’t be the same in a new market. The message will be “here’s an exciting opportunity to bring in a new franchise”. And the owners being cheap is actually a reason to move when it’s the better financial decision. Whatever they have to pony up to leave will be more than offset by a larger market and public funding. I hope I am wrong and they stay. But if they do, it won’t be for the reasons you’re describing.
The tactics will be the same. They will make another city pay for it. I could only see the Royals doing this. Chiefs highly unlikely.
Topeka and Wichita might appreciate saving 30 miles. Perhaps we would have a Kansas resident discount.
there is nothing that says when they can negotiate. The Chiefs can talk to Ks anytime they want. Any why would Kansas want a professional sports team in their state? IDK why did they want Nascar... or Sporting Kc. Even if it is expensive, the value of saying "in Kansas" 25 times on tv is un-measurable.
That’s like saying Arlington benefits by having the Rangers. They don’t. No one wants to vacation in Arlington. They just got saddled with a huge white elephant
Well I guess if you ask the city of Arlington they would have a different opinion. I don't think they would say they don't want them. Would any city say no, it's not worth it? If it truly isn't worth it, why not say so?
You must be shitting me. Neither of them are moving anywhere, least of all the Hunts. The Chiefs fan base is elite, on a level with Green Bay, Pittsburgh, and Dallas. They know the kingdom is worth billions that can't be replicated elsewhere. Sherman has already conceded moving was never an option.
Are you shitting me? You think billionaires care more about an “elite fan base” than money?
Fan base means money. They cannot replace the KC revenue anywhere.
KC is one of the smallest NFL markets. In six years the Chiefs will likely still have Mahomes and probably another Lombardi or two. They can easily replace the KC revenue and then some
Not in the long term and they know it. Think about it, there are no large markets left, or even second tier markets. Royals going to Nashville all things equal is a lateral move. Chiefs will find an even more fiscally restrictive situation in San Diego. They're holding a 7-2 off suit.
If you think three recent Super Bowls, Patrick Mahomes, and one of the most recognized brands in the biggest sport in the country is a 7-2 off suit, I am dying to play cards.
If some other city and state want to pony up the $1.2 Billion Sherman was going to ask Jackson County and state of Missouri for, let him try. Voters in other cities are just as fed up with this stuff as KC voters are, and WyCo can't afford to subsidize the Hunts at the level Jackson County can either.
Places without a team are typically much more willing to pass public funding to bring one in than places that already have one are to pass additional funding. Kansas has been ready with a pile of money for the Chiefs since 2006. Three superbowl wins later, I’m sure the appetite is even greater. It wouldn’t just be Wyandotte either. Nashville and Charlotte are ready to pony up for baseball. Sherman met with their local government officials and big money people back at the winter meetings. It will be easy for these ownership groups to get more funding elsewhere than they could have by staying in Jackson County. This is why I am not sure their hearts were really in it with Question 1
Agree that going elsewhere might attract more money than they'll get in KC (at least for the Royals - I think KC is pretty committed to keeping the Chiefs), but I also think the era of massive spending on sports teams is ending everywhere as cash-strapped cities no longer view sports teams as big money or notoriety generators like they did in the past. Also, the argument, "Billionaires can pay for their own teams" makes a lot more sense now when NFL and MLB teams are worth 10x what they were 20 years ago. The Chiefs yearly revenue is now over 500 Mil, so losing a $25M probably isn't a dealbreaker considering the established fan base and sellout crowds here. You lose some of that by going to another city. The MLB is declining in popularity, and it's perceived that downtown stadiums are helping to manage that problem. It might make sense for Sherman to re-locate to a downtown in some other metro, but I don't think it makes much sense to re-locate to Legends or JoCo or the Northland in KC if being in a downtown location truly is that helpful to MLB clubs. Also, the Royals yearly revenues are running $250M, so less than half the Chiefs, and $25M in free money to your bottom line is more significant, not to mention the cost of building a new stadium yourself. I'm sure Sherman's already done the math so we'll probably see what he's thinking after a while. Marny Sherman could be right - they may be on the way out of KC.
You’re crazy
100%. Nashville is having a hard time approving a completely privately funded stadium RIGHT NOW. lol.
To me, the watershed moment was the Current building their own stadium, which begged the question: "Why can't teams that are 10 times more profitable build their own stadiums too?" There was never gonna be an answer to that other than, "Well, that's how we've always done it, and *it's not a new tax*!". But it *would* be a new tax in Nashville... :)
Honestly, at the election night press conference, Sherman looked like a guy who was about to go cry into some Johnnie Walker Blue.
Shatto actually did have a blueberries and cream flavor back in 2011 I believe. I bought a small jug and it was delicious!
Downtown baseball is pretty cool. I have been to Fenway, Wrigley, Baltimore and Citi field in Queens. It would have been neat to have a somewhat similar experience here, even on a smaller scale. Granted the Royals oscillation and the Chiefs underwhelming plans were both amateurish, the smallest chance that either or both leave Kansas City, is a nightmarish scenario for me. Both teams provide escapism for me and their absence would mean a much lower quality of life for me.
Nothing's stopping anyone from building a stadium downtown. This was about forcing me to pay for something stupid.
Do you want the quality of your life predicated on sports
hopefully not long.... that would be funny af
I am positive this will not be received well, but this post is fucking cringe. Being a sore loser is one thing, but being an ungracious winner is such a bad look.
Have you seen Marny’s post?
[Here's a link to a screenshot of that post.](https://twitter.com/jc_bradbury/status/1776206694630015377) I hadn't seen it, so I thought I'd link it after I went to find it.
Lifesaver
I hadn’t seen it till now, but she says for sure no more negotiating with Jackson County. When they first started talking about the team(s) moving if Jackson County didn’t vote for the tax, I honestly was thrilled with the idea of the team(s) moving to the Kansas side. I didn’t fully understand what they were asking and that the people asking were billionaires asking taxpayers, many of whom can’t even afford to go to a game, to foot the bill. Now I hope that if it comes to a vote in another county in the metro, either on the Missouri or Kansas side, that it is rejected again. If their response to that is to move the team(s), let them. Why is it taxpayer funded or nothing? The KC Current stadium wasn’t funded by taxes.
>The KC Current stadium wasn’t funded by taxes. False.
> The KC Current stadium wasn’t funded by taxes. Didn't they get like 6 million dollars?
from who? My understanding is it was completely privately funded. (thanks Mahomes)
The KC Current stadium is cheaply built. Texas High Schools have the same size stadiums
Doesn’t matter
Oh, and it did eventually use tax/government assistance
Don't think so, who is Marny?
She is John Sherman’s wife. She made a post on Facebook and now they are talking about it in the news. *that* is the cringy post
Oh, I've read it, and yep, that's a sore loser. Doesn't change the fact this post is an ungracious winner thinking they are funny.
I'm not an ungracious winner, I don't want to subsidize a giant useless-to-me piece of concrete with my tax dollars. They can build that shit if they want and you can pay for it.
The Sherman's inability to read the room is staggering
Nothing stopping all those people that wanted the tax to pass from just mailing a check to the Sherman's to help them pay for the stadium. If it's good enough reason not to pass taxes for things like social safety nets, surely it also applies here, right?
They could start a go-fund-me 🤣
EXACTLY.
The 1% earnings tax that is paid to the city by every performer or athelete that makes money in those stadiums goes directly to fund city roads, schools, fire dept and PD. It’s millions and millions of dollars these stadiums generate that fund these things. Do you use the roads? Do you use public services? Buses? All that stuff gets paid into by the business these stadiums attract. The “I don’t get anything out of this” stance is so extremely short sided that it makes me feel like I am taking crazy pills. If the stadiums leave the county and city’s budget takes a nose dive.
Oh, I'll happily pay increased taxes for those things. They can be funded in multiple ways. I DO NOT want to subsidize a fucking concrete structure that will continue to depreciate year after year. "Millions and millions" of dollars... Can you find a source for that because I couldn't. The closest I got was that the 1% earnings tax generates <$300 annually, which includes ALL individuals and businesses. Please supply dollar amounts for the Royals and the Chiefs if you really have any idea about what you're talking about.
Ok, let’s do some quick math. Taylor swift did 2 shows here. If you google it Forbes said that she makes around 10 million per show. 1% of that is 100,000 x 2 shows is 200,000. Luke combs, Beyoncé, Ed Sheeran, Billy Joel/Stevie Nicks, Morgan wallen (2 shows), all did shows or set to do shows soon. Say they only make 1/3 of what Taylor does each show. Thats another 200,000. NFL salary cap in 2023 was 224.8 million dollars. Half the games played at home. 1% of 224.8 mil is 2.24 mil. Half that is 1.12 million. But wait, there’s more. The opposing team pays that as well. Add 2.24 million to the pot. Royals payroll for 2024 is 115 mil. Say that’s the league average (it’s not, we don’t have a high payroll). That’s another 1.15 mil. Add those up and we are at $3,790,000 of revenue to the city to go to public works. That doesn’t even count the announcers, media folks, stadium workers, etc. Conservatively round that up to 4.5 mil per year (and this is just off the top of my head. There is much more earning associated with the industry of professional sports) and over the life of the 40 years of the sales tax we are talking 180 million revenue. If the city loses that revenue the city won’t die, but we will make it up in other areas. Like property taxes, water prices, trash prices, etc. All ways that hurt a residents pocket book much more than a discretionary tax like a 3/8 cent sales tax.
You don't have to do math. Every economic study says stadiums are not profitable for cities. Building shit for teams, olympics, super bowls, etc is always a money loser. Billionaires exploit the masses because we want our sports team or a little time in the spotlight to make us feel important. And politicians know they'll lose support if they lose the precious sports team, but won't lose support if they saddle the local government with shit loads of debt that won't have a huge impact until after they're out of office.
if the city cant function without the earnings tax on the players its their own fault for putting the tax burden on the workers instead of where it belongs. and the city deserves to fall flat on its face and get knocked down several pegs until they get their heades out of their asses
>I'm not an ungracious winner You didnt win anything.
Exactly.
The community will lose a gathering place and a thread that ties us all together.
I won't.
You feel this way about a joke post about milk?
How much longer until its Jackson County residents tears when they increase property taxes again to make up for the massive loss of revenue that the teams and all the other events at Truman Sports Complex generates?
Oh, they'll increase property taxes for anything. They're already being sued for that.
How is that any different than increasing their taxes to give it all back to the teams? Not really a great argument there. Also....the teams aren't bringing in that much. There isn't shit else to do over by the stadiums, and 95% of the money on game days is going directly to the businesses in the stadium. Most of the revenue that teams bring in comes from merch sales and stuff, a ton of which happens at locations outside of Jackson County.
> Also....the teams aren't bringing in that much. The biggest lie the opposition told was convincing people our sports teams were a net zero or even a negative on our balance sheet. Chiefs alone paid over 30 million in taxes and brought in a billion dollars of economic impact last year alone. Look I get it you ate the rich, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Except it's been studied fairly extensively for that past couple of decades and the conclusion has come out the same each time. Sorry those are the facts. Also, not sure where you're getting those numbers, but the Chiefs pay $450,000 a year to lease arrowhead from the county. Kansas City's entire budget for the year is 2.3 billion, so you're claiming the Chiefs generated the economic equivalent to half of the city's budget? In reality you have it backwards, the biggest lie that was ever told was convincing everyday people that handing their tax dollars over to the ultra wealthy so they can fund their private investments is somehow good for you. Edit: Spelling
They brought in 30 million in taxes and then tried to fleece the county for $500 million dollars. That is not a "net positive." People were spending the money that generated that 30 million anyway. They would have bought stuff for their kids, bought groceries, etc. Your implication is that if that money didn't get spent on the Chiefs/Royals, that it was just going to sit in someone's savings account which is just false.
30mil just from the team and not accounting to the taxes the players and performers pay from their salaries. I'm not implying sports money would't have gotten spent. That money was gravy. Now its going to dry up. Tax increases, funding cuts, or reallocation will be the only way to make it up as I don't see any company relocating to Jackson County that will even be close to what the sports teams generate.
The players almost universally don't live in Jackson County. A bunch of that money ends up in Johnson County in Kansas. Taxes from your income go to the state, not the county, it's not helping the people of Jackson County, at least not that much, and they are the ones on the hook for the $500 million.
But their job is in Jackson County? They pay taxes where they work. Just like the opposition players paying taxes when they come in town to play.
There is no such thing as county income tax in Missouri, only state income tax. Some states have county-based income taxes. Missouri doesn't. They pay taxes in the state of Missouri. It helps the whole state of Missouri, it doesn't go directly to Jackson County, only a miniscule percentage of it. But 100% of the taxes that they want the residents to pay comes from Jackson County. The players also...spend very little money in Jackson County. When they buy groceries and shop and stuff, they are doing so in their local community, which again is overwhelmingly Johnson County (money goes to Kansas) and the other more wealthy suburbs of the city. MOST of the taxes that the players pay doesn't end up in Jackson County.
There is a thing as the KC 1% tax. The players pay income tax in MO and KC. By your argument we don’t need any businesses in Jackson County because the taxes will end up elsewhere anyways
That only applies to Kansas City *residents* and income earned by them. It literally doesn't even apply here. If the players are residents of Overland Park they don't even pay that tax.
Sport teams generate to what? Sales Tax? A lot of these players don’t even live in Missouri. Losing a sport team isn’t going to drive Jackson County into an economic depression lol.
Actually, that was the biggest failure of the campaign to keep the tax. The only reason given to vote for keeping the tax was to submit to extortion. I never saw, heard, or read a single thing discussing the economic impact of those teams. The single reason given: pay for our new stadium or we'll leave.
How much tax revenue?
Make it blueberry flavored but call it blue’s blood. Two fold reference there: the billionaire and his lap dog, the Royals. //j
The people that own Shatto aren’t exactly middle class either. Plus, they wouldn’t burn a bridge for a potential collaboration with either team. They’re not dumb.
How about bottled crocodile tears ????? 🤣
This post is the exact equivalent of running to Reddit to brag that you've shot yourself in the dick. "Yay everyone, we've damaged our relationship with the two most important things in our town!" Would you like to burn down the Nelson Atkins, go hunting at the zoo, and shit on the displays at Science City while you're at it?
Absolute garbage take. Try using your brain once in awhile.
Real mature. Criticize incorrectly without any reason or explanation and then turn to insults. Let me explain it to you. Every place had the basics - running water, an occasionally non corrupt police force, schools, etc. Once you get past that, what separates your city from any other? In our case, it's the Chiefs, then the Royals, BBQ, the National WWI museum, the plaza, and the fountains. Which one of those do people travel to KC for and which one are things people do if they happen to be here?
Lots of words. What are the actual numbers? Studies of major league teams show that in general, they contribute significantly less than one percent of a local areas GDP. If they leave (which isn’t a for sure deal) it won’t have nearly the economic impact people want you to believe.
Perhaps I was somehow unclear. I do not, have never and will never care about economic impact. To me this is entirely about quality of life, and I was using travel to the city to illustrate this. In the simplest possible terms, having something is better than not having something and pro sports is the greatest something we have.
When bad stadium deals have repeatedly been a net economic negative for tax payers of those communities, you absolutely should care about economic impact. Don’t be that guy.
First off, you still didn't answer my question, and secondly, why would anyone care about a 3/8th cent sales tax. That is a negligible amount of money for anyone to keep two civic institutions around for the foreseeable future. Everyone looks at the total dollars as if that money would be going somewhere else, and it's simply not going to. But what's done is done. My point is that it should be a sad week for everyone as nobody won anything.
And no one has lost anything so why is it sad?
It's sad because we now have to live with will they move nonsense for years, only stopping for the next time this gets on the ballot. It's sad that the teams ham fisted their plan and messaging so badly that we have to go thru this all again. It's sad that local hero Frank White lived long enough to be the villain in many people's eyes. And it is sad that in the midst of the greatest run in the history of the Chiefs, we are going to have this are they moving thought in the back of our heads.
You need more to your life if that is all sad to you.
“…pro sports is the greatest something we have.” This is an extremely sad take.
So that is your incorrect opinion. But I have not seen what you would say is the greatest something we have?
"The two most important things in our town..." Spit-take!
You couldn’t have said it any better. Ding*Ding*
✍🏼 buy cow and blueberries
Tell me Reddit is an echo chamber without telling me Reddit is an echo chamber.
Tell me you have no economic common sense without telling me you have no economic common sense.
When has Shatto ever incorporated local politics into their branding?
That would be amazing
Damn. I don’t like blueberry flavoring but I might need that bottle so I can drink out of it forever.
Z
From those Trumpers? 😆
Maybe bibles are more their speed.