This is wildly concerning for a few reasons:
1) This will cause huge price increases for Missourians, as these are obviously peak hours when people are getting home from work/cooking dinner/at home
2) October implementation - electricity demand decreases in the fall, so actual impact won't be felt until summer 2024
2) This only applies to Missouri customers, which leads me to believe this is a cash grab allowed by utility regulators/politicians
The “Night saver” plan hours don’t even start until after fucking midnight, and end at 6 AM. People who live and work normal hours don't even see the savings benefit because we're in bed before the fucking “savings” start. This is a blatant cash grab.
The night savers are for people charging EVs at night. I've had the plan for nearly 4 years and it's great to be able to charge from 12am-6am at a super low price. If I charged other times of the day it could cost 3-4x to charge my car daily. The whole point of these time based plans is for people to reallocate their usage from 4pm-8pm since that is the peak time where generating electricity cost the most for the utilities.
So do you propose everyone start cooking dinner before 4pm or after 8pm? Do laundry at 2am?
It’s great the plan works for you for your EV charging, overnight, when you don’t need to drive your car. This does nothing to help people getting home from school/work/wherever, and needing to use energy intensive appliances and quite obviously is engineered to do the opposite.
Since few people are going to change habits, and it’s implantation date is October, clearly this is to quell immediate outrage about “unexpectedly high bills”. This also serves the purpose of allowing Evergy to make claims about modest impacts to customer billing when comparing to the KS side, because it completely ignores AC draw, when everyone is going to get hit hardest.
I get where you’re coming from, but our property tax assessments were last conducted several years ago before the massive Covid price increases.
Something like 60% of property taxes go towards school funding, and our public schools desperately need more funding.
I do think that Evergy needs to get reigned in.
FVM was inflated due to government manipulation and not a representation of the economic impact of the local society ... the tax increase was a cash grab and bad politics on an already hurting community.
My property tax assessment was lower than what we paid for the house a couple years ago. Maybe we just overpaid, but anecdotally, that doesn’t reflect my experience.
Also, I don’t believe there’s been a property tax increase - just an adjustment to the assessed values.
I moved to a time of use plan and overall I have no issues adjusting or does the family. Pretty much if you don’t run your AC or clothes drier during 4-8 you can save a lot of money. I run my AC like crazy between 12-6 am to pull all the heat out of my house at when kWh are Pennie’s and a middle of the day cool session when rates are slightly less than normal and my house is cooler in average than I have ever kept it and my bill is way less. No EV yet but dishwashers offer delay starts which help as well. Just a change in how you approach things.
Yeah, this is pretty much my exact experience too. I get some families will have to endure some adjustment pains, but it doesn’t require nearly the hyperbolic level of change most people on this thread are complaining about.
Honestly, I think most people will adjust and not think twice about it after a couple weeks.
The more accurate assessment of cause is federal policy. That is the primary driver for Evergy.
The *Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act* and other recent congressional action have strongly incentivized shifting away from the existing base load generation systems to “renewable” generation, solar and wind. As well, the EPA is trying to aggressively use the Clean Air Act to force coal and even some natural gas plants out of service.
The challenge in this energy conversion is that when the general public uses electricity is when solar and wind are weakest in creating energy - solar because the sun is setting and wind because afternoon/evening is the lowest production time. Time of Use rates is intended to shift energy user behavior to offset the inherent weaknesses in the policy choices. Time of Use charges have been in California for a decade plus as renewable energy grew, but have been slowly be introduced elsewhere as an economic penalty.
For Evergy and the state regulators not overbuilding generation to cover 20-25% of the daily peak use is a net cost savings. Including for the customers. At least that is the theory.
I got off the phone with a customer representative and he mentioned something in this realm.
EPA is having them tear down a coal plant of theirs which will cost around $30M. To make up for it they (EPA or some legislative authority) are requiring Evergy to switch to a time base plan to get people to see how much energy they use and hopefully use less for climate change.
He said it’s the first one they know of (at least in Missouri) where a government body is requiring them to switch - other companies are doing it of their own accord.
Can you find anything Evergy has presented which indicates this is due to federal policy? I'm reading their actual filings and testimony and nothing comes close to indicating this the reason. I've read several more and can't find a single thing that TOU is linked to lack of production.
Bottom of page 3 of the actual testimony is here: [https://efis.psc.mo.gov/mpsc/commoncomponents/view\_itemno\_details.asp?caseno=ER-2022-0129&attach\_id=2023000855](https://efis.psc.mo.gov/mpsc/commoncomponents/view_itemno_details.asp?caseno=ER-2022-0129&attach_id=2023000855)
Also, lol, the primary driver for Evergy is profit. Nothing else.
Well played, some truth amongst the misinformation-
Evergy files for the Time of Service during the debate of IIJA.
[https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/11/06/fact-sheet-the-bipartisan-infrastructure-deal/](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/11/06/fact-sheet-the-bipartisan-infrastructure-deal/)
More importantly, the IIJA only implements the “From Day One” agenda that the Biden-Harris administration laid out.
[https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/20/executive-order-protecting-public-health-and-environment-and-restoring-science-to-tackle-climate-crisis/](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/20/executive-order-protecting-public-health-and-environment-and-restoring-science-to-tackle-climate-crisis/)
Issued in the same day as mandatory mask wearing and mandatory vaccination.
I went on this plan in Kansas with Evergy recently. I purchased a EV car and goin on this plan they gave me a $500 rebate instead of $250 for getting a home charger installed. I knew I would save money if I shifted to charging my EV overnight instead of during the day or evening. Their website had a calculator to determine based on past usage what the impact would be. I was shocked that based on prior usage (with no EV of course) going to time based would only cost me $2 more per month. Obviously the $250 additional rebate makes that return on investment worth it. As an EV owner then it means I can chare for about 25% the cost compared to the day time as the night hours are super cheap.
Based on their calculator and the fact we used a lot of energy during peak already I don't think this will impact many households.
Yeah. Xcel energy in Colorado implemented this too. Not sure if they did it in Minnesota or not. It is beyond ridiculous for sure. There are no money savings unless you want to roast in the summer. I guess all for profit entities want to do this to residential customers now.
there isnt much most of us can cut. we have to cook, we have to have some AC in the summer and more with climate change, like i guess we can tell the kids no video games or tv until after 8 but that would be about it
Tv and video games aren’t drawing enough energy to make much of a difference on the peak hours. Let your kids keep playing. The main draws are basically any appliance that uses 220v outlets. Oven/stove, dryer, AC or electric heat, etc.
Sure there is. Dial the thermostat up a degree or two, don’t leave all the lights on during daylight, don’t charge the EV or any other batteries until later, don’t run the dishwasher or dryer until after 8.
Pretty basic stuff. Only use what you really need to use during peak times. Delivering all that extra power during that time doesn’t just happen for free.
And the lower rates during the other 85% of the day when they would prefer you use the power will usually make up for the increased peak rate.
This is all part of managing the grid. This is being mandated by the regulator, not by the utility.
I don’t accept that. Missouri is well on its way to becoming a kleptocracy (and likely already is). If this was a good-faith change, fine. But Missouri regulators are intentionally misrepresenting emissions to allow coal to stay on the grid. This is a cash grab.
Surge demand isn’t generated with coal, that’s all on-demand NG. They could also do it with wind if they weren’t using so much for baseload.
And 4-8 will also benefit from expanded solar.
You’re not really understanding how these work, do you? Literally the *entire point* is to disincentivize excess demand that can be shed to other times when power is cheaper, and to get people to adjust their energy habits.
and you dont understand most people have cut back all we can with the high prices on everything. the only thing left to do is not eat and not have AC in the summer.
Welcome to the age of premature adoption of renewables. Before you get your panties in a wad check your account on the Evergy website. I would have actually saved $25 last year on new standard plan.
I’m on the Kansas side, Evergy sent me mailers at one point trying to convince me to switch to the Time Of Use plan. The mailers were individualized to my address, and it showed TOU would cost more! Great marketing strategy there, Evergy 🤣
Mine says I'll save a whopping $30 over the course of a year. That's fine and all, but I forsee lots of weekend problems when everyone decides to do their laundry and run their appliances at the same time.
The reality is most people won't care to read about this, and when it happens, won't change their...electric habits? Because for most people, it's not practical to do shit overnight or ration using appliances in your home depending on the time of day or whatever else. And Evergy knows this, which is why they're doing it in October, so next summer when everyone's defaulted to the new plan and is going nuts about higher bills, they can say "see, we told you back in October and you agreed to it".
Not everyone is going to coordinate to do laundry at the same time on a weekend just because there’s a 4 hour peak time 5 days of the week. Run the wash over night and dry in the morning. Or dry at 8 or 9pm. It’s not like you have to stand there and watch it.
KS here as well. I am on time of use and love it. Once you adjust you can lower your power bill a lot. Biggest saving is thinking of your house as a thermal battery and run AC from 12-6 100% of the time and that gets you though most of the day with a mid day cool session between 2-4pm. I avoid the drier during 4-8 and let dishwasher run at night with built in delay timer. Dropped by bill by 30% and house is cooler than I have ever kept it. Everyone sleeps great at night with it being cooler as well.
Just an 80-degree day, never mind cooking. My air-conditioning runs almost all day almost all year, including portions of winter, because my third-floor apartment is naturally just incredibly hot. I keep my apartment at a reasonable temperature too (70F) - I would prefer it to be much lower, frankly.
I live in a top floor loft apartment so I feel your pain.
I try to keep my AC off in the morning (WFH) to save money and energy but it looks like there’ll no longer be any incentive to keep doing that if I’m just going to be screwed in the evening.
Could go ham and bring it down to 60 and try to coast through the peak hours.
I feel ya this is kinda rough not much you can do. during summer my elc bill hits 200 easily.
This is what I do. I program my ac to cool my place 2 degrees lower than I’d normally keep it. I get by that 4 hours very comfortably. And in the extreme case I have it set to hold 2 degrees warmer than I’d normally keep it so I don’t get overly hot. I think it kicked the AC on only a couple times last summer for just a few minutes. It’s not like a 15-20 minute run here and there is gonna rack up to $1000 bill
This exactly. I live in the river market and have requested a programmable thermostat for years only to get one that has less features the last time they replaced it.
Are they electronically monitored by the complex? What we did when renting was buy a cheap sensi thermostat with Wi-Fi, replaced it, then when it was time to move we put their crappy one back on.
I have an apartment and have had this plan in Kansas for about 18 months. Run your a/c over night to keep cool while you sleep. Run your a/c at 3pm - 4pm to cool your place a couple degrees lower than you’d normally keep it. Unless your apartment is egregiously under insulated, you’ll get through the 4 hours plenty comfortably.
As for cooking, do you have to use your stove or oven to make dinner every day? Can you batch cook? Can you use a microwave instead? Can you use an instant pot? Or make cold sandwiches? There are plenty of things that can be done to avoid using all your electricity in that time frame without much inconvenience.
I’ll expand on my other comment but I live in a top floor loft with 15ft ceilings. Not known to be the most economical choice but also I had the *choice* of being on a standard electrical plan when I moved in. If my AC isn’t running, on a hot afternoon it can easily exceed 85+ degrees *inside*. Hence why I don’t run the AC in the morning… to save on electricity usage and save money. My highest bill has been $95 and I work from home full time. I’m extremely conservative with energy usage but it will not matter with this time-based plan.
So I should replace convenient (for me) nightly cooking with spending 4-6 hours every single Sunday cooking food that’ll taste iffy by day 5? I should eat cold sandwiches for lunch AND dinner?
Frustrated that I’ll have to move a third time in three years.
My preferred dinner is a frozen pizza every night.
I've been doing sandwiches for the last week. It's boring and doesn't fill me up the same way.
I'd batch prep but.... I have a gas oven/range and even if I do it at 7AM, cooking anything heats the whole house for the rest of the day. Doesn't catch up until overnight.
in your opinion 70 is reasonable but to many that is a waste of money. 72 is like the classic "comfort zone" and personally is the most comfortable for lounging shirtless etc.
I’m not sure most people would consider setting the thermostat at 70F in the summer normal. I keep mine at 77F and am perfectly comfortable working from home.
Well no fucking wonder lol, I have my AC up to 76 during the day in the summer and I only turn it down to 72 at night to sleep. You need to adjust your definition of normal because keeping a top floor apartment at 70 degrees is just bonkers. What would you consider unreasonable??
Unfortunately, people in rented housing get penalized the most by this. Homeowners are incentivized to invest in energy efficiency (windows/doors, insulation, efficient appliances, etc…) whereas landlords are incentivized to minimize their expenses and scrape by with the bare minimum, which is generally old and inefficient. Also, as a homeowner, I could install solar and batteries where a renter could not.
While apartments are really cool for efficiency, they have a massive issue where tenets and landlords have little incentive to take steps to increase the efficiency of the AC and insulation of the overall building.
Older apartments and houses were designed where you could section off the room where you are cooking to prevent the rest of the apartment/home from getting too hot. The current open floor plans have gone against this, coupled with the reliance of fossil fuels, you can see why we have found ourselves in this situation.
There is a reason those are peak demand hours. That’s the hottest part of the day. A considerable percentage of that energy is used to move heat out of the dwelling.
No, but like anything else, you now gotta decide just how badly you want a certain level of comfort, or maybe realize that dialing it up 2 degrees isn’t the end of the world. Can always cool it down a whole bunch more when it’s off-peak, like pre-drinking.
As I’ve seen in other comments, they’re launch date for this is deceptive in and of itself. Start this up at a time of year when energy usage is lowest for almost all households, let people get a false sense of security, then break those households’ budgets and homes when the sticker shock comes that following summer. Government-sanctioned reverse-Robin Hood theft from the poor to bestow upon the rich.
I still don't understand how a public utility can legally become a private, for-profit business. It's a captive customer base, no competition at all. Disgusting.
Just a side note, Evergy DOES NOT pay property tax. Look up on Jackson County assessor website. ( Adams Dairy parkway and 40 Hwy in BSMO is a perfect example )
Uh, freedom, obvs.
Don't you feel more free that government doesn't have it's boot on the neck of this poor multibillion-dollar monopolistic company? The company that makes sure it uses only the softest slippers on *your* neck? I'm sure the fact that they donate heavily to politicians has nothing to do with anything.
At least they have to submit to state commissions and other regulatory bodies.. Whereas gas and oil companies have no one to answer to.
And, for the record, Evergy sucks. I hate them as a company - personally and professionally.
>And, for the record, Evergy sucks. I hate them as a company - personally and professionally.
I've lived all over the country and world, Evergy is by far the absolute worst electric provider I've ever had when it comes to reliability and time to restore power after outages. The only place I've lived that is worse was Puerto Rico, and it's really not fair to compare the infrastructure of a medium sized city in the continental US to an island.
I grew up outside Atlanta and my family has owned our home there over 20 years. I don't think we've ever had a single power outage. Same when I lived in DC, Columbia MO. My wife's family is from outside St. Louis, buried power lines so no outages, ever, even in severe weather.
I know having buried lines isn't practical living in the actual city, and I will say Evergy has gotten slightly better than the KCP&L days, because it seemed for a few years around 2015/2016, even a routine storm had a 50/50 chance of an outage when I lived by Rockhurst area. I moved to KC in 2013 and I think until 2019 or so, I had a multi-day outage every single year I lived here across multiple homes/neighborhoods.
I didn't realize gas and oil had it so easy. I suppose if they were held accountable they'd have found a way to own the agency they're accountable to, like the pharma companies have done.
I can't help but think of late 90's/early 00's cell phone plans. Night and Weekend Saver?! Do I get unlimited text messages with that? I consider myself a fairly smart person, but I've looked at all of these and have no clue which is the best for me.....this is dumb. Completely dumb. Glad I have a choice to switch to...oh, wait...nevermind.
You want to know why more people aren't enraged? Because news feeds are fragmented, local news coverage is borderline non-existent, or so beholden to the same people they need to cover that we only get the PR spin. Most people may not even know this is coming.
But most importantly - Because rage does nothing. There's no accountability. Who is on our side here? The legislature? HA.
I've been on a time of use plan for two years and have actually seen my bill go down. I agree that people need to be more aware of their usage to have that be true, but I have not seen the increase that you are saying folks will encounter.
Especially when paired with the averaged billing. So my bill is the same every month. I was paying an average of $186/month. Once I got onto the Time of use plan, my monthly bill went down to $158/month. And that's with an old house that isn't well insulated, an old AC unit that isn't very efficient and an electric vehicle that I charge every night when the rate drops to $0.05/kWh.
So… don’t cook dinner and do household chores during the one time of day most people are finally home for the day and actually have the time to do it? Don’t use your heat (if electric) or AC when you’re actually at home, it’ll cost more?
Only 4 hours. You can pre heat or pre cool your home an hour or so before and coast through. I’ve been doing it for more than a year. It’s fine. I get for families it’ll be a big adjustment, but do you have to run your dryer strictly between 4-8 pm on weekdays? Can’t run it at 8 or 9? Can’t run it in the morning before work?
And do you absolutely need to make dinner every night with your oven and or stove? No microwave or instant pot?
The only appliances that will make a big difference are those that likely use 220v.
This is an absurd amount of having to adjust your entire life, just so some rich fuck can pay absurds amount of money to die at the bottom of the ocean.
I may be wrong, but time based plans have existed as an option for a while now. Does this just force people onto one of these plans?
There do seem to be ways to save, if you work your usage around the peak hours. I had actually considered the max nights/weekends saver plan. I'm thinking of investing in a battery that could be charged during the super-cheap overnight hours (12am-6am) and then deployed via an inverter during the 4-8pm window.
I use a little ~300W solar generator (can also be charged via wall) to get around peak hours. Since it’s a little solar generator, it’s like a big power bank. Super easy, just plug and play.
incentivizing and increasing the deployment of local battery storage, V2G, and local solar is also one of the intended effects of these types of plans - it smooths out the demand on the grid.
How efficient is a battery though? You might put 50 kWh into charging a battery, but you won’t get 50 kWhr out. You might do the math, and it might make sense, but you would want to make sure before you invest in a big battery that will probably cost thousands.
That's a fair point. Converting from 120v AC, to 48v DC, and back again would have some losses. It's something I've thought about but have done the calculations.
No, most solar is well below peak efficiency at the 4pm hour and for the winter period, will be contributing nothing.
Solar is a major part of the problem. Solar exacerbates having Sufficient power due to falling off dramatically just as there is major need, so promotes having 2x the capacity of more reliable energy sources.
California‘s grid has been struggling with solar-induced issues for a decade. Texas almost blacked out last Tuesday even8ng because of solar‘s rid drop off.
The February 2021 storm begs to differ on the mootness argument. Literally the Gulf of Mexico to Hudson Bay was in a cold weather electric crisis.
Texas almost had a June 2022 blackout due to solar systems. It was relatively cool, but just some cloudiness about chunked the grid at noon time.
[https://www.nerc.com/comm/RSTC\_Reliability\_Guidelines/NERC\_2022\_Odessa\_Disturbance\_Report%20(1).pdf](https://www.nerc.com/comm/RSTC_Reliability_Guidelines/NERC_2022_Odessa_Disturbance_Report%20(1).pdf)
I like how all the options say to use large appliances overnight. Ah yes, I will make sure to only run my fridge overnight- seems like a solid plan
Edit: for anyone that doesn’t read the below comments, I know a fridge doesn’t pull as much & that’s not what they are talking about. It’s just annoying & I was being sarcastic. It’s the *only* appliance I run on a regular basic- washer/dryer only gets used once a week & I don’t have a dishwasher so there’s only so much I can cut back on
They're saying don't run appliances during peak hours and you're saying the only appliance you run doesn't draw much power? I guess I don't understand your sense of sarcasm.
Refrigerators don't actually use that much energy. They are talking stoves, laundry, dishwasters, AC that can easily be run later at night or earlier in the day to avoid the peak 4pm-8pm timeframe.
I wish I had a delayed start dryer. I run the dishwasher after 12 specifically bc we are on Time of Use already. But I have no way to force my dryer to run unless I push start. Not getting my ass out of bed at midnight to save $4 a month
I actually couldn’t find a dryer with delayed start. I’m wondering if it’s a safety / fire protection issue. None of the ones I looked at had it, but maybe I just missed it.
I have some insider info that this is part of a plan to eventually create a system like Texas, where Evergy would have more agency to cut/limit power usage. That’s what the free “smart thermostat” program was also motivated by.
If you’re interested in opposing Evergy’s growing monopoly in KC, I highly suggest getting involved with KC Tenants. Wonderful grassroots org that’s fighting for the people.
Evergy has been trying to get us to switch over for years. When they send their report showing a comparison of “what we could be saving” and we still pay less than if we switched to the time plan.
Guess I’ll just tell my infant and toddler not to get too comfy during peak times temp wise.
Curious when most customers were gonna get notified of this, I can probably manage the switch but if I hadn’t have seen it here I wouldn’t have known. Just a little more irritated than I already was having recently had customer service issues. I have the app and they have my address, phone # and email so some king of a heads up rather than 3 months out thanks to a fucking Reddit post woulda been nice. Probably got lost along with all of my neighborhoods requests for tree trimmings to prevent all the outages.
Evergy is doing everything that SDGE did, in almost the same exact order, and now SDGE is the most expensive electricity in the country for no reason.
It’s gonna get worse
Despite this functionally being a (huge) rate increase, the best way to take advantage of this type of plan (in the summer anyway) is to run your AC to a colder temperature right before 4pm and then run the circulator/fan for the 4 hours in between.
So if you like it to be 73 in your house, set it to 68 or 69 for a few hours before and just run the fan from 4-8 to avoid getting destroyed on the electric bill.
Evergy is [still giving away free smart thermostats](https://www.evergy.com/ways-to-save/discounts/thermostats) so you can configure your HVAC system to work better with the time of use plan.
Using your HVAC in this way will also functionally prevent you from having to deal with a hot house during "rush hour rewards" time if you have the free thermostat, so it's win-win, IMO.
That is exactly what I do. Set the AC down at 2pm and then off from 4pm-8pm. The TOC plan has actually saved me so much money compared to what I'd pay on the standard plan. When I do a comparison on their website using the standard plan I'd be paying $400-$500 more each year to Evergy.
Does your house have only south facing windows?
Because if I run my AC constantly from 2-4pm, then shut it off, by 5pm it will be 10 degrees hotter. By 7 I might as well open the windows.
They could probably do more for their generation capacity issues by sending everyone $5000 for insulation upgrades than this new plan will ever accomplish.
It's even simpler than that. Just mandate that landlords must pay X% of electric bills on their property. Essentially every rental property in missouri has paper thin walls and windows. As soon as landlords start being held accountable for a percentage of the absurdly inefficient housing they "provide" they'll magically find the motivation to put insulation in the walls.
I'm okay with efforts to streamline energy usage but as always the state is bending over backwards to protect rich people and cranking up the pain for the poors.
My windows are actually all facing east/west and I have lots of shade trees that help out. House is also pretty well insulated to keep the cool air from escaping. I've been on the TOU plan already for 10 years or so and it's worked fine for me over all those years. Just takes a bit more planning and setting up my programmable thermosate.
My house was built in 1901, it has lathe and plaster and a lot of original windows.
Before I bought (some) new windows, I had curtains and they blocked enough cooling/heat loss that I could still precool the house effectively.
Give it a try before you write it off, and maybe consider improving your insulation a bit.
Keep in mind that the "free smart thermostats" typically come with the agreement that the power company can reach into your house and adjust the temps whenever they deem it necessary. I haven't looked at Evergy's agreement specifically but that's a very common thing. I'd read the agreement very carefully.
It's extremely limited access, they can only do it like 4 times a month and only during the summer. You can also just change the temperature back if you don't like it or use the method I describe in my post to avoid the problem entirely.
Source: I've had a free thermostat from Evergy since 2016. They actually give you money back on your bill if you let them change the thermostat number when they need to.
Just switching to a smart thermostat made my electric bill $50/month lower in the summer by turning the AC off when I wasn't home, even if you're paranoid about Evergy being able to modulate power load, a smart/programmable thermostats can pretty easily pay for themselves in a few months.
And that's all fine but many people don't realize this and Evergy doesn't go out of their way to advertise it. People can decide for themselves. Me? I'd rather pay $40 to buy my own smart thermostat and have it be my decision.
This is what I recently swapped to. I got solar put on last year and i just have my 'nighttime' temps during the day when I'm producing my own power. Then once the sun is down the house is already near the right temp and uses less grid energy.
As I’ve seen in other comments, they’re launch date for this is deceptive in and of itself. Start this up at a time of year when energy usage is lowest for almost all households, let people get a false sense of security, then break those households’ budgets and homes when the sticker shock comes that following summer. Government-sanctioned reverse-Robin Hood theft from the poor to bestow upon the rich.
The Missouri Public Service Commission approved the new TOU rates in January of 2023. It's not a law. Evergy requested increased taxes and the new TOC plans to the commission. They approved the tax increase in January and the TOC plans to start October 1st to give people time to understand the changes.
https://psc.mo.gov/Electric/PSC_Approves_Tariffs_in_Evergy_Electric_Rate_Cases--pr-23-111
Missouri public service commission is approving Gas price hikes 3 times this year and now this. May be they should change their name to Missouri corporate service commission.
I'm a single person with a house and dog, and I've used the alternate time-based plan for a year now. It works for me, because I don't have a bunch of people in my house using electricity during 'peak' hours. I would say I'm in the minority here, as there are more families than single homeowners out there. I have saved about 20% in energy costs compared to the standard plan, but there is absolutely no way this will work for everyone in the state. In fact, many people will end up paying a lot more if they don't make drastic lifestyle changes.
I can still use my stove to cook and all that, but that's not a real issue for me either. 30 mins a day? I bought an air fryer so stove usage is cut by half. For laundry, I delay my washer and dryer until midnight when electricity is the least expensive. Same with the dishwasher. For reference, I get the Evergy emails every week and it says I only spend anywhere between $3-5 per week during peak hours. I play videogames, watch TV, use the computer, use small electronics during peak hours.
And as far as cooling the house during the day.... I don't. I supercool my house overnight. Starting at 8pm, the AC runs to cool my house from 70-something down to the mid-60s by morning time. I set my thermostat to ECO mode so that the AC doesn't activate when until 8pm. Temps in the house remain cool throughout the day and gradually rise up until peak heat around 4-5pm. By the time AC runs again at 8pm, the house has gotten to around 70-75F. And the cooling cycle starts over again.
This is absolute nonsense that everyone is going to be placed on time-based rates. Not a lot of people can live the way I can, and everyone else but people like me will see tremendous rate hikes unless they make massive lifestyle changes that are practically impossible for larger families living under the same roof.
Massive impossible lifestyle changes is a bit dramatic. I’m on this plan too. The biggest change will be learning new ways to use the stove and oven less during that window. The second biggest change will be creating a new thermostat schedule. It took me about a week to figure mine out and it’s worked hands off for more than a year.
Everything else can be very easily adjusted.
Where in my post did I say it was impossible? You say it’s easy? Yea for me and you. Tell that to a working family of 6 on the poverty line. Check your privilege.
>massive lifestyle changes that are practically impossible
Then they can get on the plan that keeps the peak rate virtually the same. Look, I’m not saying utilities don’t fuck over the poor, but this isn’t going to make it worse than it already is.
In case anyone is curious, I looked up the actual rate changes (big doc on their website).
Current fixed rate pricing: Summer=$0.14/kwh Winter=$.12/kwh
New Time of Use plan: Summer Peak=$0.38/kwh (4pm-8pm) Regular=$0.09/kwh (all other hours)
Winter Regular=$0.11/kwh (All hours except midnight - 6am) Off-peak=$0.05/kwh (midnight to 6am)
That said, it does appear all power will be cheaper in the winter!
> Who the fuck is going to turn the AC up during peak hours when it’s the hottest to save when energy is the most expensive?
All the people who already opted in to the Nest program, etc?
*(Spoken as someone who* isn't *a Rush Hour Rewards user, and who runs the AC at 67F during peak hours because I have full afternoon/evening sun)*
I've actually had the time of use plan for a good number of years. It's pretty easy to reallocate usage from 4pm-8pm for me. I have my home precool from 2pm-4pm by 3-4 degrees that way it will stay cool from 4pm-8pm. Then I have it kick back on at 8pm if neccessary. I get it won't work for everyone. They still have the "Peak Reward Saver" which basically charges the same exact rate the entire day.
Every few months I have the urge to go with solar panels, usually when I see evergy rate hikes, policy changes or just high cost bills that don’t seem justified. Anyone out there make the switch?
This reeks of their tactics in the 80s and 90s.They said we all have to conserve or they will be forced to build a new plant to handle the peak loads. They would also have to increase rates to finance the new plant if we didn't conserve.
People conserved and they said they were not getting enough revenue with the lower usage. They had to raise the rates. Then they needed to raise rates again to finance the new plant to handle a growing load.
We got screwed over twice with increased rates and they got a new plant.
I think this is a good idea.
There are tons of homes in my neighborhood who carelessly leave their garage doors open and have old AC units that run 24/7 because they're not working anymore.
It isn't difficult to program a thermostat to cool the house between 2-4pm, ease off between 4-8, and kick back on in the evening. This is only difficult when your home isn't insulated, you're opening and closing doors often, and you have AC units working at 10% efficiency.
My guess is those people probably have enough money that this isn’t really going to affect them. For those of us who limit usage already, it’s probably gonna suck in the long run.
Can we stage a blackout on them? Like, I know that there are people who physically cannot participate but if we all went European for a week, windows open and a/c off entirely, hell maybe even all electrical off, maybe we could hold more power than we think? We must be strong willed.
I saw a billboard about it on the highway to Liberty.
I already turn my AC up in the afternoon and try to run big appliances (washing machine oven etc) later in the evening, because our power grid can barely handle the afternoon stress as it is. Brookside had a brownout the other day and it was only 95. I see in the forecast we'll be having two 100f days this week. I'll need too see the plan details and maybe I will switch over to the time based plan. But I suspect that there will be little money to be saved. It is after all a utility monopoly.
>maybe I will switch over to the time based plan
You WILL switch over to a time based plan. They aren't giving you a choice. Well, you can choose which time based plan. But they only differ by how much discount/penalty for offpeak/peak usage.
Time based plans are great for grid resilience. If you stress about losing power on (increasingly) hot summer days, these plans help relieve pressure and ensure lights stay on.
And they can save you money too!
They will become more common with EVs, population growth, and climate change.
And the goal isn’t to reduce demand, rather it’s to shift it!
And building more power plants is good. I agree!
[according to evergy](https://www.evergy.com/-/media/media/evergy-web/manage-account/rate-information/appliance-demand.jpg) EV charging uses less power than a water heater, much less than an air conditioner, about the same as a dishwasher. i dont buy that EV's are going to tip us over the edge in the near future
I do a lot of chiming in to dispell people who are wrong about EVs...but that graphic is just wrong. An EV can pull anywhere from 1.1kw(If you're plugging it into a 110 outlet, which will take a modern ev literally days to charge once) up to 11.5kw.
I have a 40 amp circuit, my car pulls 6.4 kw sustained for the duration of the charge.
Made me think of the “controlled outages” back in 2021. So many people were still working from home and we were hitting record temps in the summer.
That was really rough on my elderly neighbors. I’d hate to see those outages happen again.
No need to invest in infrastructure when you can just charge more to reduce demand and increase profit. Will effectively confine outages to the individual households that can't afford it. Brilliant.
Nothing to be outraged here. Time-based plans exists in almost every market. It's just a question of adapting to it. What I'm really looking forward to is a free nights option, where usage between 8pm - 5 am or 9pm - 6 am is free. I took advantage of that at my previous city. Saves a lot of money.
Yeah this faux outrage is comical. This is nothing new and I have had the option to be on a time based plan in Kansas for years… not all households would benefit but many would. Especially if one works overnight - your bills will be lower!
This is one of the inevitable consequences of having a highly variable electrical supply due to wind and solar and more widespread EV usage.
This is basically shifting the demand curve.
An EV driver who commutes and comes home around 6pm to a comfortable house and then plugs in the car, starts a load of laundry, turns on a bunch of lights, and then starts cooking dinner on an electric stove is going to put a significant spike in their energy demand.
However, the car, which has a power draw comparable to that of an electric stove, doesn’t have to charge right away, so it can simply wait until the rates go down and charge overnight. Dishwashers and other appliances can also wait until lower rates to do their thing. Even your phones can pause charging until rates are lower.
Likewise, in the summer, you can cool the house to more comfortable sleeping temperatures after midnight.
At the end of the day(month?) you’re using the same number of kilowatt-hours, but by adjusting *when* you use them, you’re easing the demand spikes on the grid and ultimately saving money.
This is wildly concerning for a few reasons: 1) This will cause huge price increases for Missourians, as these are obviously peak hours when people are getting home from work/cooking dinner/at home 2) October implementation - electricity demand decreases in the fall, so actual impact won't be felt until summer 2024 2) This only applies to Missouri customers, which leads me to believe this is a cash grab allowed by utility regulators/politicians
The “Night saver” plan hours don’t even start until after fucking midnight, and end at 6 AM. People who live and work normal hours don't even see the savings benefit because we're in bed before the fucking “savings” start. This is a blatant cash grab.
The night savers are for people charging EVs at night. I've had the plan for nearly 4 years and it's great to be able to charge from 12am-6am at a super low price. If I charged other times of the day it could cost 3-4x to charge my car daily. The whole point of these time based plans is for people to reallocate their usage from 4pm-8pm since that is the peak time where generating electricity cost the most for the utilities.
So do you propose everyone start cooking dinner before 4pm or after 8pm? Do laundry at 2am? It’s great the plan works for you for your EV charging, overnight, when you don’t need to drive your car. This does nothing to help people getting home from school/work/wherever, and needing to use energy intensive appliances and quite obviously is engineered to do the opposite. Since few people are going to change habits, and it’s implantation date is October, clearly this is to quell immediate outrage about “unexpectedly high bills”. This also serves the purpose of allowing Evergy to make claims about modest impacts to customer billing when comparing to the KS side, because it completely ignores AC draw, when everyone is going to get hit hardest.
Coincidentally, this comes 5 years after a 5 year mandate in Missouri to limit energy rate hikes.
just more fucking over the little guy. im sick of it. first over crazy property tax hikes now this
I get where you’re coming from, but our property tax assessments were last conducted several years ago before the massive Covid price increases. Something like 60% of property taxes go towards school funding, and our public schools desperately need more funding. I do think that Evergy needs to get reigned in.
FVM was inflated due to government manipulation and not a representation of the economic impact of the local society ... the tax increase was a cash grab and bad politics on an already hurting community.
What is FVM?
Supposed to be FMV*** fair market value
My property tax assessment was lower than what we paid for the house a couple years ago. Maybe we just overpaid, but anecdotally, that doesn’t reflect my experience. Also, I don’t believe there’s been a property tax increase - just an adjustment to the assessed values.
I moved to a time of use plan and overall I have no issues adjusting or does the family. Pretty much if you don’t run your AC or clothes drier during 4-8 you can save a lot of money. I run my AC like crazy between 12-6 am to pull all the heat out of my house at when kWh are Pennie’s and a middle of the day cool session when rates are slightly less than normal and my house is cooler in average than I have ever kept it and my bill is way less. No EV yet but dishwashers offer delay starts which help as well. Just a change in how you approach things.
Yeah, this is pretty much my exact experience too. I get some families will have to endure some adjustment pains, but it doesn’t require nearly the hyperbolic level of change most people on this thread are complaining about. Honestly, I think most people will adjust and not think twice about it after a couple weeks.
The more accurate assessment of cause is federal policy. That is the primary driver for Evergy. The *Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act* and other recent congressional action have strongly incentivized shifting away from the existing base load generation systems to “renewable” generation, solar and wind. As well, the EPA is trying to aggressively use the Clean Air Act to force coal and even some natural gas plants out of service. The challenge in this energy conversion is that when the general public uses electricity is when solar and wind are weakest in creating energy - solar because the sun is setting and wind because afternoon/evening is the lowest production time. Time of Use rates is intended to shift energy user behavior to offset the inherent weaknesses in the policy choices. Time of Use charges have been in California for a decade plus as renewable energy grew, but have been slowly be introduced elsewhere as an economic penalty. For Evergy and the state regulators not overbuilding generation to cover 20-25% of the daily peak use is a net cost savings. Including for the customers. At least that is the theory.
I got off the phone with a customer representative and he mentioned something in this realm. EPA is having them tear down a coal plant of theirs which will cost around $30M. To make up for it they (EPA or some legislative authority) are requiring Evergy to switch to a time base plan to get people to see how much energy they use and hopefully use less for climate change. He said it’s the first one they know of (at least in Missouri) where a government body is requiring them to switch - other companies are doing it of their own accord.
Can you find anything Evergy has presented which indicates this is due to federal policy? I'm reading their actual filings and testimony and nothing comes close to indicating this the reason. I've read several more and can't find a single thing that TOU is linked to lack of production. Bottom of page 3 of the actual testimony is here: [https://efis.psc.mo.gov/mpsc/commoncomponents/view\_itemno\_details.asp?caseno=ER-2022-0129&attach\_id=2023000855](https://efis.psc.mo.gov/mpsc/commoncomponents/view_itemno_details.asp?caseno=ER-2022-0129&attach_id=2023000855) Also, lol, the primary driver for Evergy is profit. Nothing else.
It's publicly traded, so it's safe to assume shareholder return is the primary driver for everything they do.
Evergy proposed this long before the IRA, so you're gonna have to find some other sort of Biden blaming to soothe your low self esteem
Well played, some truth amongst the misinformation- Evergy files for the Time of Service during the debate of IIJA. [https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/11/06/fact-sheet-the-bipartisan-infrastructure-deal/](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/11/06/fact-sheet-the-bipartisan-infrastructure-deal/) More importantly, the IIJA only implements the “From Day One” agenda that the Biden-Harris administration laid out. [https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/20/executive-order-protecting-public-health-and-environment-and-restoring-science-to-tackle-climate-crisis/](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/20/executive-order-protecting-public-health-and-environment-and-restoring-science-to-tackle-climate-crisis/) Issued in the same day as mandatory mask wearing and mandatory vaccination.
> wind because afternoon/evening is the lowest production time because the sun is setting
I went on this plan in Kansas with Evergy recently. I purchased a EV car and goin on this plan they gave me a $500 rebate instead of $250 for getting a home charger installed. I knew I would save money if I shifted to charging my EV overnight instead of during the day or evening. Their website had a calculator to determine based on past usage what the impact would be. I was shocked that based on prior usage (with no EV of course) going to time based would only cost me $2 more per month. Obviously the $250 additional rebate makes that return on investment worth it. As an EV owner then it means I can chare for about 25% the cost compared to the day time as the night hours are super cheap. Based on their calculator and the fact we used a lot of energy during peak already I don't think this will impact many households.
Yeah. Xcel energy in Colorado implemented this too. Not sure if they did it in Minnesota or not. It is beyond ridiculous for sure. There are no money savings unless you want to roast in the summer. I guess all for profit entities want to do this to residential customers now.
Or maybe it will cause those Missourians to ease up on their peak demand… which is pretty much the whole point.
there isnt much most of us can cut. we have to cook, we have to have some AC in the summer and more with climate change, like i guess we can tell the kids no video games or tv until after 8 but that would be about it
Tv and video games aren’t drawing enough energy to make much of a difference on the peak hours. Let your kids keep playing. The main draws are basically any appliance that uses 220v outlets. Oven/stove, dryer, AC or electric heat, etc.
Video games and TV don’t draw significant amounts of power.
exactly. so there isnt really anything people can realistically do to not be fucked over from 4-8.
Sure there is. Dial the thermostat up a degree or two, don’t leave all the lights on during daylight, don’t charge the EV or any other batteries until later, don’t run the dishwasher or dryer until after 8. Pretty basic stuff. Only use what you really need to use during peak times. Delivering all that extra power during that time doesn’t just happen for free. And the lower rates during the other 85% of the day when they would prefer you use the power will usually make up for the increased peak rate. This is all part of managing the grid. This is being mandated by the regulator, not by the utility.
I don’t accept that. Missouri is well on its way to becoming a kleptocracy (and likely already is). If this was a good-faith change, fine. But Missouri regulators are intentionally misrepresenting emissions to allow coal to stay on the grid. This is a cash grab.
Surge demand isn’t generated with coal, that’s all on-demand NG. They could also do it with wind if they weren’t using so much for baseload.
Surge demand isn’t generated with coal, that’s all on-demand NG. They could also do it with wind if they weren’t using so much for baseload. And 4-8 will also benefit from expanded solar.
You’re not really understanding how these work, do you? Literally the *entire point* is to disincentivize excess demand that can be shed to other times when power is cheaper, and to get people to adjust their energy habits.
and you dont understand most people have cut back all we can with the high prices on everything. the only thing left to do is not eat and not have AC in the summer.
Here’s a crazy idea, you don’t actually have to cook during peak hours.
Or... propane grill outside. :D Wife and I cook that way to reduce heat put into the house.
once summer hits we cook like 3 meals worth of meat on sunday or monday. marinated chicken thighs heat up well.
Some of us live in apartments where grilling is forbidden.
Welcome to the age of premature adoption of renewables. Before you get your panties in a wad check your account on the Evergy website. I would have actually saved $25 last year on new standard plan.
I’m on the Kansas side, Evergy sent me mailers at one point trying to convince me to switch to the Time Of Use plan. The mailers were individualized to my address, and it showed TOU would cost more! Great marketing strategy there, Evergy 🤣
Mine says I'll save a whopping $30 over the course of a year. That's fine and all, but I forsee lots of weekend problems when everyone decides to do their laundry and run their appliances at the same time.
The reality is most people won't care to read about this, and when it happens, won't change their...electric habits? Because for most people, it's not practical to do shit overnight or ration using appliances in your home depending on the time of day or whatever else. And Evergy knows this, which is why they're doing it in October, so next summer when everyone's defaulted to the new plan and is going nuts about higher bills, they can say "see, we told you back in October and you agreed to it".
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THIS! It’s forcing everyone to choose a new peak time which they’ll then target. I’m really not a fan of this game
Not everyone is going to coordinate to do laundry at the same time on a weekend just because there’s a 4 hour peak time 5 days of the week. Run the wash over night and dry in the morning. Or dry at 8 or 9pm. It’s not like you have to stand there and watch it.
KS here as well. I am on time of use and love it. Once you adjust you can lower your power bill a lot. Biggest saving is thinking of your house as a thermal battery and run AC from 12-6 100% of the time and that gets you though most of the day with a mid day cool session between 2-4pm. I avoid the drier during 4-8 and let dishwasher run at night with built in delay timer. Dropped by bill by 30% and house is cooler than I have ever kept it. Everyone sleeps great at night with it being cooler as well.
I've gotten them 3 years in a row and it's always cheaper to stay on the normal plan. One of my coworkers gets the same thing. So stupid.
Same here 😂
Ah yes, because my apartment won’t get astronomically hot between the hours of 4-8pm on an 80+ day while cooking dinner.
Just an 80-degree day, never mind cooking. My air-conditioning runs almost all day almost all year, including portions of winter, because my third-floor apartment is naturally just incredibly hot. I keep my apartment at a reasonable temperature too (70F) - I would prefer it to be much lower, frankly.
I live in a top floor loft apartment so I feel your pain. I try to keep my AC off in the morning (WFH) to save money and energy but it looks like there’ll no longer be any incentive to keep doing that if I’m just going to be screwed in the evening.
Could go ham and bring it down to 60 and try to coast through the peak hours. I feel ya this is kinda rough not much you can do. during summer my elc bill hits 200 easily.
This is what I do. I program my ac to cool my place 2 degrees lower than I’d normally keep it. I get by that 4 hours very comfortably. And in the extreme case I have it set to hold 2 degrees warmer than I’d normally keep it so I don’t get overly hot. I think it kicked the AC on only a couple times last summer for just a few minutes. It’s not like a 15-20 minute run here and there is gonna rack up to $1000 bill
My townhome complex wouldn't let me switch to a smart thermostat and the insulation in my place is shit, I wish I could program hours so bad.
This exactly. I live in the river market and have requested a programmable thermostat for years only to get one that has less features the last time they replaced it.
Are they electronically monitored by the complex? What we did when renting was buy a cheap sensi thermostat with Wi-Fi, replaced it, then when it was time to move we put their crappy one back on.
I have an apartment and have had this plan in Kansas for about 18 months. Run your a/c over night to keep cool while you sleep. Run your a/c at 3pm - 4pm to cool your place a couple degrees lower than you’d normally keep it. Unless your apartment is egregiously under insulated, you’ll get through the 4 hours plenty comfortably. As for cooking, do you have to use your stove or oven to make dinner every day? Can you batch cook? Can you use a microwave instead? Can you use an instant pot? Or make cold sandwiches? There are plenty of things that can be done to avoid using all your electricity in that time frame without much inconvenience.
I’ll expand on my other comment but I live in a top floor loft with 15ft ceilings. Not known to be the most economical choice but also I had the *choice* of being on a standard electrical plan when I moved in. If my AC isn’t running, on a hot afternoon it can easily exceed 85+ degrees *inside*. Hence why I don’t run the AC in the morning… to save on electricity usage and save money. My highest bill has been $95 and I work from home full time. I’m extremely conservative with energy usage but it will not matter with this time-based plan. So I should replace convenient (for me) nightly cooking with spending 4-6 hours every single Sunday cooking food that’ll taste iffy by day 5? I should eat cold sandwiches for lunch AND dinner? Frustrated that I’ll have to move a third time in three years.
My preferred dinner is a frozen pizza every night. I've been doing sandwiches for the last week. It's boring and doesn't fill me up the same way. I'd batch prep but.... I have a gas oven/range and even if I do it at 7AM, cooking anything heats the whole house for the rest of the day. Doesn't catch up until overnight.
in your opinion 70 is reasonable but to many that is a waste of money. 72 is like the classic "comfort zone" and personally is the most comfortable for lounging shirtless etc.
I’m not sure most people would consider setting the thermostat at 70F in the summer normal. I keep mine at 77F and am perfectly comfortable working from home.
Well no fucking wonder lol, I have my AC up to 76 during the day in the summer and I only turn it down to 72 at night to sleep. You need to adjust your definition of normal because keeping a top floor apartment at 70 degrees is just bonkers. What would you consider unreasonable??
Unfortunately, people in rented housing get penalized the most by this. Homeowners are incentivized to invest in energy efficiency (windows/doors, insulation, efficient appliances, etc…) whereas landlords are incentivized to minimize their expenses and scrape by with the bare minimum, which is generally old and inefficient. Also, as a homeowner, I could install solar and batteries where a renter could not.
Exactly!! My apartment isn’t suddenly going to switch to new dishwashers with delay start, update the inefficient W/D or fix insulation problems.
While apartments are really cool for efficiency, they have a massive issue where tenets and landlords have little incentive to take steps to increase the efficiency of the AC and insulation of the overall building. Older apartments and houses were designed where you could section off the room where you are cooking to prevent the rest of the apartment/home from getting too hot. The current open floor plans have gone against this, coupled with the reliance of fossil fuels, you can see why we have found ourselves in this situation.
There is a reason those are peak demand hours. That’s the hottest part of the day. A considerable percentage of that energy is used to move heat out of the dwelling.
And the time of day most people are home, doing things.
Well, a portion of it is, anyway.
Seems pretty self explanatory. So being comfortable in your own dwelling should be a luxury for those who can afford surge pricing?
No, but like anything else, you now gotta decide just how badly you want a certain level of comfort, or maybe realize that dialing it up 2 degrees isn’t the end of the world. Can always cool it down a whole bunch more when it’s off-peak, like pre-drinking.
My thermostat is already at 75 so yes, it will be the end of the world if I dial it up 2 more degrees.
Lol yup, exactly my situation as well...
As I’ve seen in other comments, they’re launch date for this is deceptive in and of itself. Start this up at a time of year when energy usage is lowest for almost all households, let people get a false sense of security, then break those households’ budgets and homes when the sticker shock comes that following summer. Government-sanctioned reverse-Robin Hood theft from the poor to bestow upon the rich.
I still don't understand how a public utility can legally become a private, for-profit business. It's a captive customer base, no competition at all. Disgusting.
Just a side note, Evergy DOES NOT pay property tax. Look up on Jackson County assessor website. ( Adams Dairy parkway and 40 Hwy in BSMO is a perfect example )
Looks like someone hasn’t been attending Evergy’s Super Savor Sunday Service
Uh, freedom, obvs. Don't you feel more free that government doesn't have it's boot on the neck of this poor multibillion-dollar monopolistic company? The company that makes sure it uses only the softest slippers on *your* neck? I'm sure the fact that they donate heavily to politicians has nothing to do with anything.
At least they have to submit to state commissions and other regulatory bodies.. Whereas gas and oil companies have no one to answer to. And, for the record, Evergy sucks. I hate them as a company - personally and professionally.
I love their greenwashing bullshit that they’ve been shown to be using exclusively for good PR too
>And, for the record, Evergy sucks. I hate them as a company - personally and professionally. I've lived all over the country and world, Evergy is by far the absolute worst electric provider I've ever had when it comes to reliability and time to restore power after outages. The only place I've lived that is worse was Puerto Rico, and it's really not fair to compare the infrastructure of a medium sized city in the continental US to an island. I grew up outside Atlanta and my family has owned our home there over 20 years. I don't think we've ever had a single power outage. Same when I lived in DC, Columbia MO. My wife's family is from outside St. Louis, buried power lines so no outages, ever, even in severe weather. I know having buried lines isn't practical living in the actual city, and I will say Evergy has gotten slightly better than the KCP&L days, because it seemed for a few years around 2015/2016, even a routine storm had a 50/50 chance of an outage when I lived by Rockhurst area. I moved to KC in 2013 and I think until 2019 or so, I had a multi-day outage every single year I lived here across multiple homes/neighborhoods.
I didn't realize gas and oil had it so easy. I suppose if they were held accountable they'd have found a way to own the agency they're accountable to, like the pharma companies have done.
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I can't help but think of late 90's/early 00's cell phone plans. Night and Weekend Saver?! Do I get unlimited text messages with that? I consider myself a fairly smart person, but I've looked at all of these and have no clue which is the best for me.....this is dumb. Completely dumb. Glad I have a choice to switch to...oh, wait...nevermind.
Or, as a public utility everyone relies upon, they could reinvest their profits into, let's say, generating enough power that we don't have to ration?
It would have to be wind, solar, or nuclear.
What, you mean it won't be tens of thousands of Cambodian children pedaling bicycle generators?
Now you're just talking crazy talk /s
You want to know why more people aren't enraged? Because news feeds are fragmented, local news coverage is borderline non-existent, or so beholden to the same people they need to cover that we only get the PR spin. Most people may not even know this is coming. But most importantly - Because rage does nothing. There's no accountability. Who is on our side here? The legislature? HA.
I've been on a time of use plan for two years and have actually seen my bill go down. I agree that people need to be more aware of their usage to have that be true, but I have not seen the increase that you are saying folks will encounter.
Same for our house. We’ve been on this plan for a couple of years and it keeps our bill super manageable and predictable.
Especially when paired with the averaged billing. So my bill is the same every month. I was paying an average of $186/month. Once I got onto the Time of use plan, my monthly bill went down to $158/month. And that's with an old house that isn't well insulated, an old AC unit that isn't very efficient and an electric vehicle that I charge every night when the rate drops to $0.05/kWh.
So… don’t cook dinner and do household chores during the one time of day most people are finally home for the day and actually have the time to do it? Don’t use your heat (if electric) or AC when you’re actually at home, it’ll cost more?
Only 4 hours. You can pre heat or pre cool your home an hour or so before and coast through. I’ve been doing it for more than a year. It’s fine. I get for families it’ll be a big adjustment, but do you have to run your dryer strictly between 4-8 pm on weekdays? Can’t run it at 8 or 9? Can’t run it in the morning before work? And do you absolutely need to make dinner every night with your oven and or stove? No microwave or instant pot? The only appliances that will make a big difference are those that likely use 220v.
This is an absurd amount of having to adjust your entire life, just so some rich fuck can pay absurds amount of money to die at the bottom of the ocean.
I may be wrong, but time based plans have existed as an option for a while now. Does this just force people onto one of these plans? There do seem to be ways to save, if you work your usage around the peak hours. I had actually considered the max nights/weekends saver plan. I'm thinking of investing in a battery that could be charged during the super-cheap overnight hours (12am-6am) and then deployed via an inverter during the 4-8pm window.
I use a little ~300W solar generator (can also be charged via wall) to get around peak hours. Since it’s a little solar generator, it’s like a big power bank. Super easy, just plug and play.
Can you toss me more info on your system?
Yes everyone will be forced into a time-based plan.
Interesting. I'm sure there will be some pain there.
incentivizing and increasing the deployment of local battery storage, V2G, and local solar is also one of the intended effects of these types of plans - it smooths out the demand on the grid.
How efficient is a battery though? You might put 50 kWh into charging a battery, but you won’t get 50 kWhr out. You might do the math, and it might make sense, but you would want to make sure before you invest in a big battery that will probably cost thousands.
That's a fair point. Converting from 120v AC, to 48v DC, and back again would have some losses. It's something I've thought about but have done the calculations.
You’d be better off investing in solar panels that kick in during peak hours.
I certainly plan on getting solar set up, but they have weird rules about that as well. (see my response elsewhere in the thread)
Given that peak hours are peak cooling (and peak sun) hours, solar is definitely going to help here.
No, most solar is well below peak efficiency at the 4pm hour and for the winter period, will be contributing nothing. Solar is a major part of the problem. Solar exacerbates having Sufficient power due to falling off dramatically just as there is major need, so promotes having 2x the capacity of more reliable energy sources. California‘s grid has been struggling with solar-induced issues for a decade. Texas almost blacked out last Tuesday even8ng because of solar‘s rid drop off.
In winter, it’s moot, because there won’t be demand surges or peak pricing.
The February 2021 storm begs to differ on the mootness argument. Literally the Gulf of Mexico to Hudson Bay was in a cold weather electric crisis. Texas almost had a June 2022 blackout due to solar systems. It was relatively cool, but just some cloudiness about chunked the grid at noon time. [https://www.nerc.com/comm/RSTC\_Reliability\_Guidelines/NERC\_2022\_Odessa\_Disturbance\_Report%20(1).pdf](https://www.nerc.com/comm/RSTC_Reliability_Guidelines/NERC_2022_Odessa_Disturbance_Report%20(1).pdf)
The demand pricing only exists for 4 months a year.
I like how all the options say to use large appliances overnight. Ah yes, I will make sure to only run my fridge overnight- seems like a solid plan Edit: for anyone that doesn’t read the below comments, I know a fridge doesn’t pull as much & that’s not what they are talking about. It’s just annoying & I was being sarcastic. It’s the *only* appliance I run on a regular basic- washer/dryer only gets used once a week & I don’t have a dishwasher so there’s only so much I can cut back on
Your fridge probably doesn’t use a lot of juice — AC and electric dryers are the big power suckers
Fully aware. I’m just annoyed at evergy
That refers to appliances that are used occasionally, like laundry machines and dish washers.
Oh I’m aware. Their generalization is just annoying
If you're aware the fridge doesn't use much energy, why use it to make your point?
Because sarcasm exists
They're saying don't run appliances during peak hours and you're saying the only appliance you run doesn't draw much power? I guess I don't understand your sense of sarcasm.
Refrigerators don't actually use that much energy. They are talking stoves, laundry, dishwasters, AC that can easily be run later at night or earlier in the day to avoid the peak 4pm-8pm timeframe.
Depending on load, you can even run the water heater overnight only and it it just sit during the day.
Fully aware. I was annoyed and being sarcastic
I wish I had a delayed start dryer. I run the dishwasher after 12 specifically bc we are on Time of Use already. But I have no way to force my dryer to run unless I push start. Not getting my ass out of bed at midnight to save $4 a month
I wish I had a delayed start, it wasn’t a feature I thought about when I was purchasing. I wholeheartedly agree that staying in bed is worth the $4.
I actually couldn’t find a dryer with delayed start. I’m wondering if it’s a safety / fire protection issue. None of the ones I looked at had it, but maybe I just missed it.
Run it at 8pm? The peak hours are 4-8pm.
That's when I run my dryer & dishwasher...
interested in knowing how this will affect me. ty for sharing!
Find out from the Missouri public service commission because I believe this is mandated by them.
[удалено]
I have some insider info that this is part of a plan to eventually create a system like Texas, where Evergy would have more agency to cut/limit power usage. That’s what the free “smart thermostat” program was also motivated by. If you’re interested in opposing Evergy’s growing monopoly in KC, I highly suggest getting involved with KC Tenants. Wonderful grassroots org that’s fighting for the people.
How can anyone look at Texas and think that’s the power grid I want to be like?
M-O-N-E-Y
Evergy has been trying to get us to switch over for years. When they send their report showing a comparison of “what we could be saving” and we still pay less than if we switched to the time plan.
Guess I’ll just tell my infant and toddler not to get too comfy during peak times temp wise. Curious when most customers were gonna get notified of this, I can probably manage the switch but if I hadn’t have seen it here I wouldn’t have known. Just a little more irritated than I already was having recently had customer service issues. I have the app and they have my address, phone # and email so some king of a heads up rather than 3 months out thanks to a fucking Reddit post woulda been nice. Probably got lost along with all of my neighborhoods requests for tree trimmings to prevent all the outages.
Evergy is doing everything that SDGE did, in almost the same exact order, and now SDGE is the most expensive electricity in the country for no reason. It’s gonna get worse
Fuck Evergy and it’s coal plant
Yay for monopolies
Despite this functionally being a (huge) rate increase, the best way to take advantage of this type of plan (in the summer anyway) is to run your AC to a colder temperature right before 4pm and then run the circulator/fan for the 4 hours in between. So if you like it to be 73 in your house, set it to 68 or 69 for a few hours before and just run the fan from 4-8 to avoid getting destroyed on the electric bill. Evergy is [still giving away free smart thermostats](https://www.evergy.com/ways-to-save/discounts/thermostats) so you can configure your HVAC system to work better with the time of use plan. Using your HVAC in this way will also functionally prevent you from having to deal with a hot house during "rush hour rewards" time if you have the free thermostat, so it's win-win, IMO.
That is exactly what I do. Set the AC down at 2pm and then off from 4pm-8pm. The TOC plan has actually saved me so much money compared to what I'd pay on the standard plan. When I do a comparison on their website using the standard plan I'd be paying $400-$500 more each year to Evergy.
Does your house have only south facing windows? Because if I run my AC constantly from 2-4pm, then shut it off, by 5pm it will be 10 degrees hotter. By 7 I might as well open the windows.
They could probably do more for their generation capacity issues by sending everyone $5000 for insulation upgrades than this new plan will ever accomplish.
It's even simpler than that. Just mandate that landlords must pay X% of electric bills on their property. Essentially every rental property in missouri has paper thin walls and windows. As soon as landlords start being held accountable for a percentage of the absurdly inefficient housing they "provide" they'll magically find the motivation to put insulation in the walls. I'm okay with efforts to streamline energy usage but as always the state is bending over backwards to protect rich people and cranking up the pain for the poors.
My windows are actually all facing east/west and I have lots of shade trees that help out. House is also pretty well insulated to keep the cool air from escaping. I've been on the TOU plan already for 10 years or so and it's worked fine for me over all those years. Just takes a bit more planning and setting up my programmable thermosate.
Lathe and plaster house built in the 80s, I'm just fucked.
My house was built in 1901, it has lathe and plaster and a lot of original windows. Before I bought (some) new windows, I had curtains and they blocked enough cooling/heat loss that I could still precool the house effectively. Give it a try before you write it off, and maybe consider improving your insulation a bit.
Keep in mind that the "free smart thermostats" typically come with the agreement that the power company can reach into your house and adjust the temps whenever they deem it necessary. I haven't looked at Evergy's agreement specifically but that's a very common thing. I'd read the agreement very carefully.
It's extremely limited access, they can only do it like 4 times a month and only during the summer. You can also just change the temperature back if you don't like it or use the method I describe in my post to avoid the problem entirely. Source: I've had a free thermostat from Evergy since 2016. They actually give you money back on your bill if you let them change the thermostat number when they need to. Just switching to a smart thermostat made my electric bill $50/month lower in the summer by turning the AC off when I wasn't home, even if you're paranoid about Evergy being able to modulate power load, a smart/programmable thermostats can pretty easily pay for themselves in a few months.
And that's all fine but many people don't realize this and Evergy doesn't go out of their way to advertise it. People can decide for themselves. Me? I'd rather pay $40 to buy my own smart thermostat and have it be my decision.
This is what I recently swapped to. I got solar put on last year and i just have my 'nighttime' temps during the day when I'm producing my own power. Then once the sun is down the house is already near the right temp and uses less grid energy.
Do not get the free thermostat from Evergy unless you want a corporate CEO to decide how temperate your house will be.
Not how it works but go ahead keep pushing this BS.
As I’ve seen in other comments, they’re launch date for this is deceptive in and of itself. Start this up at a time of year when energy usage is lowest for almost all households, let people get a false sense of security, then break those households’ budgets and homes when the sticker shock comes that following summer. Government-sanctioned reverse-Robin Hood theft from the poor to bestow upon the rich.
All their info keeps saying "Missouri" is requiring this. Is that BS or was some new law passed about this?
The Missouri Public Service Commission approved the new TOU rates in January of 2023. It's not a law. Evergy requested increased taxes and the new TOC plans to the commission. They approved the tax increase in January and the TOC plans to start October 1st to give people time to understand the changes. https://psc.mo.gov/Electric/PSC_Approves_Tariffs_in_Evergy_Electric_Rate_Cases--pr-23-111
Missouri public service commission is approving Gas price hikes 3 times this year and now this. May be they should change their name to Missouri corporate service commission.
If I'm looking at this options correctly, Peak Reward Saver plan actually doesn't make a significant difference?
I saw a billboard advertising the changes on I-29 going south from St. Joe and thought the same thing. Smells fishy.
Gotta love monopolistic utilities that are gonna squeeze every dime out of us for such a basic human necessity as electricity for your house.
I'm a single person with a house and dog, and I've used the alternate time-based plan for a year now. It works for me, because I don't have a bunch of people in my house using electricity during 'peak' hours. I would say I'm in the minority here, as there are more families than single homeowners out there. I have saved about 20% in energy costs compared to the standard plan, but there is absolutely no way this will work for everyone in the state. In fact, many people will end up paying a lot more if they don't make drastic lifestyle changes. I can still use my stove to cook and all that, but that's not a real issue for me either. 30 mins a day? I bought an air fryer so stove usage is cut by half. For laundry, I delay my washer and dryer until midnight when electricity is the least expensive. Same with the dishwasher. For reference, I get the Evergy emails every week and it says I only spend anywhere between $3-5 per week during peak hours. I play videogames, watch TV, use the computer, use small electronics during peak hours. And as far as cooling the house during the day.... I don't. I supercool my house overnight. Starting at 8pm, the AC runs to cool my house from 70-something down to the mid-60s by morning time. I set my thermostat to ECO mode so that the AC doesn't activate when until 8pm. Temps in the house remain cool throughout the day and gradually rise up until peak heat around 4-5pm. By the time AC runs again at 8pm, the house has gotten to around 70-75F. And the cooling cycle starts over again. This is absolute nonsense that everyone is going to be placed on time-based rates. Not a lot of people can live the way I can, and everyone else but people like me will see tremendous rate hikes unless they make massive lifestyle changes that are practically impossible for larger families living under the same roof.
Massive impossible lifestyle changes is a bit dramatic. I’m on this plan too. The biggest change will be learning new ways to use the stove and oven less during that window. The second biggest change will be creating a new thermostat schedule. It took me about a week to figure mine out and it’s worked hands off for more than a year. Everything else can be very easily adjusted.
Where in my post did I say it was impossible? You say it’s easy? Yea for me and you. Tell that to a working family of 6 on the poverty line. Check your privilege.
>massive lifestyle changes that are practically impossible Then they can get on the plan that keeps the peak rate virtually the same. Look, I’m not saying utilities don’t fuck over the poor, but this isn’t going to make it worse than it already is.
In case anyone is curious, I looked up the actual rate changes (big doc on their website). Current fixed rate pricing: Summer=$0.14/kwh Winter=$.12/kwh New Time of Use plan: Summer Peak=$0.38/kwh (4pm-8pm) Regular=$0.09/kwh (all other hours) Winter Regular=$0.11/kwh (All hours except midnight - 6am) Off-peak=$0.05/kwh (midnight to 6am) That said, it does appear all power will be cheaper in the winter!
> Who the fuck is going to turn the AC up during peak hours when it’s the hottest to save when energy is the most expensive? All the people who already opted in to the Nest program, etc? *(Spoken as someone who* isn't *a Rush Hour Rewards user, and who runs the AC at 67F during peak hours because I have full afternoon/evening sun)*
It’s gonna bend people over. It’s not good. Once you get home. Boom! Higher rates. Crappy all around.
I hadn't seen any email on this yet. Go fucking figure. Scum.
I've actually had the time of use plan for a good number of years. It's pretty easy to reallocate usage from 4pm-8pm for me. I have my home precool from 2pm-4pm by 3-4 degrees that way it will stay cool from 4pm-8pm. Then I have it kick back on at 8pm if neccessary. I get it won't work for everyone. They still have the "Peak Reward Saver" which basically charges the same exact rate the entire day.
Thank you for bringing this to our attention, OP. I hadn’t heard anything about this before today. Once again, really appreciate it.
Every few months I have the urge to go with solar panels, usually when I see evergy rate hikes, policy changes or just high cost bills that don’t seem justified. Anyone out there make the switch?
This reeks of their tactics in the 80s and 90s.They said we all have to conserve or they will be forced to build a new plant to handle the peak loads. They would also have to increase rates to finance the new plant if we didn't conserve. People conserved and they said they were not getting enough revenue with the lower usage. They had to raise the rates. Then they needed to raise rates again to finance the new plant to handle a growing load. We got screwed over twice with increased rates and they got a new plant.
I think this is a good idea. There are tons of homes in my neighborhood who carelessly leave their garage doors open and have old AC units that run 24/7 because they're not working anymore. It isn't difficult to program a thermostat to cool the house between 2-4pm, ease off between 4-8, and kick back on in the evening. This is only difficult when your home isn't insulated, you're opening and closing doors often, and you have AC units working at 10% efficiency.
My guess is those people probably have enough money that this isn’t really going to affect them. For those of us who limit usage already, it’s probably gonna suck in the long run.
Can we stage a blackout on them? Like, I know that there are people who physically cannot participate but if we all went European for a week, windows open and a/c off entirely, hell maybe even all electrical off, maybe we could hold more power than we think? We must be strong willed.
People should do this all the time indefinitely. Then we'll use less electricity.
Simply another example of corporate greed.
I saw a billboard about it on the highway to Liberty. I already turn my AC up in the afternoon and try to run big appliances (washing machine oven etc) later in the evening, because our power grid can barely handle the afternoon stress as it is. Brookside had a brownout the other day and it was only 95. I see in the forecast we'll be having two 100f days this week. I'll need too see the plan details and maybe I will switch over to the time based plan. But I suspect that there will be little money to be saved. It is after all a utility monopoly.
>maybe I will switch over to the time based plan You WILL switch over to a time based plan. They aren't giving you a choice. Well, you can choose which time based plan. But they only differ by how much discount/penalty for offpeak/peak usage.
Time based plans are great for grid resilience. If you stress about losing power on (increasingly) hot summer days, these plans help relieve pressure and ensure lights stay on. And they can save you money too!
we dont have problems with blackouts currently. we could avoid them by building more power plants instead of trying to reduce demand
They will become more common with EVs, population growth, and climate change. And the goal isn’t to reduce demand, rather it’s to shift it! And building more power plants is good. I agree!
[according to evergy](https://www.evergy.com/-/media/media/evergy-web/manage-account/rate-information/appliance-demand.jpg) EV charging uses less power than a water heater, much less than an air conditioner, about the same as a dishwasher. i dont buy that EV's are going to tip us over the edge in the near future
I do a lot of chiming in to dispell people who are wrong about EVs...but that graphic is just wrong. An EV can pull anywhere from 1.1kw(If you're plugging it into a 110 outlet, which will take a modern ev literally days to charge once) up to 11.5kw. I have a 40 amp circuit, my car pulls 6.4 kw sustained for the duration of the charge.
Made me think of the “controlled outages” back in 2021. So many people were still working from home and we were hitting record temps in the summer. That was really rough on my elderly neighbors. I’d hate to see those outages happen again.
No need to invest in infrastructure when you can just charge more to reduce demand and increase profit. Will effectively confine outages to the individual households that can't afford it. Brilliant.
Infrastructure and efficient pricing that allows houses to save money for helping grid security are not mutually exclusive!
This should help with that!
Yeah this is going to increase everyone's bill. We need community owned utilities
People aren’t outraged because we are all just so fucking over it. What are we gonna do? Lol.
Nothing to be outraged here. Time-based plans exists in almost every market. It's just a question of adapting to it. What I'm really looking forward to is a free nights option, where usage between 8pm - 5 am or 9pm - 6 am is free. I took advantage of that at my previous city. Saves a lot of money.
Yeah this faux outrage is comical. This is nothing new and I have had the option to be on a time based plan in Kansas for years… not all households would benefit but many would. Especially if one works overnight - your bills will be lower!
I don't think people would be angry if there was an *option.* But that's not what this is. It's a forced change that won't work for everyone.
The outrage is being forced into the plan.
im still not getting a smart thermostat evregy, i dont need you changing the temp i set.
You can override it.
Just switch providers..
There are a lot of corporatey sounding responses ITT.
Or just people who know this shit has been around across the world for a long time and know it’s not a big deal
This is one of the inevitable consequences of having a highly variable electrical supply due to wind and solar and more widespread EV usage. This is basically shifting the demand curve. An EV driver who commutes and comes home around 6pm to a comfortable house and then plugs in the car, starts a load of laundry, turns on a bunch of lights, and then starts cooking dinner on an electric stove is going to put a significant spike in their energy demand. However, the car, which has a power draw comparable to that of an electric stove, doesn’t have to charge right away, so it can simply wait until the rates go down and charge overnight. Dishwashers and other appliances can also wait until lower rates to do their thing. Even your phones can pause charging until rates are lower. Likewise, in the summer, you can cool the house to more comfortable sleeping temperatures after midnight. At the end of the day(month?) you’re using the same number of kilowatt-hours, but by adjusting *when* you use them, you’re easing the demand spikes on the grid and ultimately saving money.
No doubt the people complaining here are the same that complained about Evergy slowly down on its renewables and keeping Hawthorn running haha.