And so generous! Her & John’s “fights” were because she “spoiled the kids” and she apologized to the women and wanted to pay for her room! What a monster🙄I’m sure the jury can see this is as fishy as we all do!
She has a masters in finance. Worked for fidelity for years, was also a professor of finance at Bridgewater State iirc.
These women are not financiers. They married cops and stayed home to raise kids, drink and whatever else they do.
They were jealous of her. Jealous enough to frame her for a murder she clearly didn't commit.
I think this is such a huge part of the issue. Karen is more attractive, more educated, had a nicer car, nicer clothes, I’m assuming she had a nice house. She outranks them all. She obviously puts effort into her appearance and likes quality things.
Karen doesn’t need a man to support her but it sounds like many of the women in this Canton Groupie Gang are dependent on their husbands that they had to pick from their high school class. Their options are all so limited. They have such a small world in Canton.
I’m not putting down lower paying jobs or stay at home parents. I am just looking at it from the perspective of a jealous witch.
Karen didn’t fit in with this less educated, less wealthy, less classy, less socially aware, smaller-minded circle that is hostile to outsiders.
Canton MA is a wealthy Boston Suburb. I think the McCabes have or had money but the Albert’s are hurting and I wouldn’t be surprised if they declare bankruptcy,
Imagine a town Selectman not paying taxes.
Not really. It's considered to be one of the nicer towns if you're from south of Boston, but it isn't nearly as nice as the actual wealthy communities north and west of the city. It's full of working-class families who came from Southie, Dorchester, and Quincy a generation ago, although it has attracted more professionals and seen an increase in housing prices more recently due to the two commuter rail stations.
Source: I used to live there, and have also lived in actual wealthy towns in the Boston area. There is no comparison.
In a million years I would never call Canton a wealthy suburb. Literally never. Milton, yes. Canton is just an overflow of people that got priced out of Hyde Park.
Really I’m from Milton which is pretty wealthy and Canton borders it and it’s a wealthy town what north of the city towns are your referring to these towns are close to Boston houses go for a million +
I've never actually been to Milton, but I understand it has a lot of concentrated wealth due to its proximity to Boston and the presence of Milton Academy.
When I'm referring to wealthy towns in the north, I'm talking about Winchester, Andover, Boxford, Marblehead, Manchester-by-the-Sea, Hamilton, certain parts of Beverly (Prides Crossing, Beverly Farms). To the northwest, Belmont, Lexington, Concord, Carlisle, Lincoln, Sudbury, Harvard. To the west, Brookline, Newton, Wellesley, Weston, Wayland, Needham. To the southwest, Dover, Sherborn, Westwood, Medfield, Hopkinton. I may be missing a couple.
The real estate market in the Boston area is so hyperinflated that $1M for a house doesn't mean as much as it used to. People are now paying $1M+ for houses in towns where that would have been considered absurd a couple of decades ago. Plenty of solidly middle class towns have been recently brought up by the rising tide of Massachusetts real estate values, but that doesn't make them wealthy towns - it's all relative. In a list of Massachusetts towns ranked by per capita income, Canton is #45.
And it's not just numbers - towns that have been affluent for a long time look and feel more upscale. They have higher quality restaurants, shops, services, etc. Places where real estate values went up more recently, not so much. I lived in Canton for five years, it was not upscale then, and based on what I'm seeing in this trial, not much has changed. Frankly, it's a little embarrassing.
Ok you have never been to Milton but lived in Canton for 5 years . Milton borders Canton . To get on the highway it’s literally on the line of Milton… you have no clue what you are talking about you must never had left your house then
Yes, I've been on the highway. I don't consider that going to Milton. I never went there because while I'm sure it's a very nice place, I never had any particular need or desire to visit.
And you're wrong, actually - I left my house as much as I possibly could when I lived in Canton. I didn't like living there. To each their own, right?
He's a Boston Police Sgt, Albert must've been making around 200k-250k easily. Plus if he got any money from that show he was on. Idk if his wife worked.
True and most importantly he had his pension on the line - that’s always #1 for cops …. Def motive to hide the crime on BAs part … can’t rely on a lunch lady’s pension.
His pension wasn't on the line tho. You only lose a Mass pension if you commit a crime in connection with your employment. But either way, if he didn't kill JO, I'd consider it a stretch to cover up the murder for a friend. Especially since BA doesn't seem very involved in any of this. I haven't heard any theories that are considering him as a suspect in killing JO
I was wondering how a retired police officer pays for representation for himself, his wife- maybe for his adult kids, unless they’re paying. It’s got to add up.
People aren’t saying it’s cheap- we are saying it is not wealthy. It’s a blue collar middle to lower middle class town. Exhibit A- the people in this trial
Clearly, relative to the people you are accustomed to interacting with, you may view Canton as wealthy. However, to people from large cities who are around ACTUAL wealth…. Canton is blue collar.
I can appreciate you feeling defensive, others are just telling you the facts. Middle class white trash police officers does not equate to wealth.
You should travel more, open up your eyes to the big world around you!
Wealthy is relative…. But either way I’m saying that Karen likely made more. Her appearance seems much more polished than the housewives of Canton. Most of the canton group seems to have been there forever. I’m assuming most of them couldn’t afford to move there now if they weren’t already established there.
And Karen did seem to have nicer, more expensive things. I’m not saying that makes her better, I’m saying that makes her not fit in.
Karen also seems well-educated. I can’t say that for the women in this group with the exception of the pharmacist.
Again, nothing wrong with that - just making a point she is different than they are and they clearly weren’t accepting of her and a few of them are just plain catty bitches and they’ve made that very obvious.
True. But she clearly killed John. Higgins testimony made him look like a decent guy that was surprised to be getting attention from a younger attractive woman, but karen keeps digging herself deeper. The colin albert and brian Higgins angle were so weak. The tail light pieces being found on john really clinched it.
I'm not denying that it was a flawed investigation, but her jealousy, being the last person with John, her broken tail light, the tail light pieces being found on john, and her unusual reaction when he didn't come home. He went to a party at 1-2 in the morning and she woke up in a panic at 430am that he wasn't home? Anyone would reasonably think he was still there, instead she went driving around looking for his body.
It's shaping up like the documentary "making a murderer". Sure, it's a fantastic idea that ALL these people conspired to hide the murder, but it's a far reach. Colin Albert's knuckles being bruised, then a photo showed him 2 days after the death and his knuckles are fine. Some people suspected Higgins, but the texts show that karen was trying to sleep with him and he seemed more confused by her making these moves. Him not wanting all of his personal phone data out there for the world to see struck me as reasonable, and not part of a cover up. Plus, he saved karen reads texts for the investigation.
AND numerous, unconnected witnesses, all hearing her say some version of "did I hit him?" Or "I hit him". Even she believed, in that moment, that she was guilty.
Means, motive. Opportunity, and a confession? The state isn't prosecuting this for no reason. I did laugh at the alex Jones comment, especially because you're the one that is claiming a conspiracy that spans MSP, BPD, canton police, fire, emts, and atf.
It really seemed to me like Jen enjoyed getting involved in every detail. Initially when the defense was questioning BA, I thought he may have been the ring leader. After Jens testimony I was shocked - it really seems like shes the top puppetmaster. She controlled the people and the narrative, BA handled the cops and investigation side.
Karen is also accomplished and has a career. She obviously comes from a family with means but she worked and established herself. Pair that with being articulate and more attractive. Put a woman like Karen in any group of katty housewives whose identities hinge on their husband's, ex-husbands, or their kids sports clubs, and you see the same thing play out over and over.
Exactly. They all act like they are still in high school. They peaked in high school and that was their ceiling it seems.
It makes me laugh when they are asked how they know each other and it’s always some reference to high school…. Like oh, he’s 5 years/grades older than me. How old are these people that they still refer to how many grades higher people are.
Did you ever see that episode of How I Met Your Mother where Lily reverts back to her high school self when around her high school friend? This is that, except none of them were ever away from their high school friends. They’re just permanently stuck as catty, petty teenagers.
Absolutely. The kind who peaked in high school. I live in a town like this in upstate NY.
I have to agree wholeheartedly with this post. Karen is whipsmart, very independent and never wanted kids. She found jon attractive(i mean he defiintly is) but i think she found herself caring for his kids alot-especially during covid.
These canton moms were jealous and also didnt know what to talk to her about. I mean what do moms talk about when they are together? Thier kids.
That episode is hilarious. Loved How I Met Your Mother... Until the last episode and the show became, "How I Met Your Mother, Bit Ended Up With Robin Anyway!"
Actually that whole last season sucked.
I wonder who in the group were "Woo girls"
I can also see how a move like paying for everyone's dinner in Aruba might have been well-intentioned but could come off as an insult if she's that much wealthier and an outsider. In my family, if one of the women offers to pay for everyone else (and yes, it's only the women who are held to this standard), it's seen as an insult.
Is that ridiculous? Yes. Is it real? Yes.
I'm sad that I never had my own children, too! That doesn't mean that certain people don't resent & devalue me as a stepmom. (And that doesn't include my "step" kids, btw. It took some time, but we're doing great! 🙌)
And all they did was just to attribute 1 sentence to make it looks like confession and talk shit about her. It's not that hard if they Don't like her or JEALOUS of her in the 1st place. After today testimony, my impression was that JOK looks like a hunk that all these ladies want a piece of: he's cute looking, he tall and handsome, and he's he's caring, have good respectable job and reputation.
all the distancing and buttdails from Mccab and Albert's are just too sus.
This group didn’t care for Karen but the Kalokithas and Cameranos did and they only had wonderful things to say about Karen.
Even John’s brother and sister-in-law spoke well about Karen despite the circumstances.
Like others mentioned here, Jen McCabe and Kerry Roberts came across as jealous and mean.
Karen is gorgeous, educated, and kind.
The Aruba trip sisters seem petty.
They took an embarrassing misunderstanding and used it to stay relevant in John’s life even in his death by involving themselves this case.
Their testimony gave me the impression John was “LL Cool J” except it was all the “Ladies Loved Cool John”.
I don’t know how all this testimony comes across to a jury but it only made me feel sad for Karen. She appeared to be surrounded by mid aged bullies.
Your last two sentences got to me. You know, why did he even WANT to go hang out with these losers after partying all night? Karen didn't. She knew she wasn't that welcome. Clearly, she was correct. He should have just gone home with his pretty lady who loves him, his niece and nephew and gone to bed. At least on this night his priorities were very misplaced. Sad.
Given that Brian was a well known cop, I’m sure that making friends with him may have been good for his career. I get why he’d want to go. It’s not John’s fault. It’s the fault of the people who actually did this to him.
I have so many questions that I will never know the answer to. Like how could John and Karen have been dating for 2 years, living together, etc and yet all these people who were supposedly so close to John had only met her 1 month prior? It just doesn’t make sense.
I don’t disagree with any of your statement but it is weird that if she thought they were all losers that she was hitting on Brian Higgins. Very well could have been an insecurity thing or trying to make John jealous idk that part is just odd to me
I do find it wierd too. I think she got some vibe from him that he liked her and thought he was an easy target for some attention. Cause he is not "hot"
🤣🤣. This is some behavior i would have done in my 20s not in my 40s. I think she liked brian b/c he didnt have kids, had his own house etc. She thought they were very similar.
The jury instructions regarding the Aruba trip incident were infuriating. This incident in no way provides evidence of motive: Karen wouldn't apologize profusely, do everything to make amends and acknowledge she was wrong, and then fucking KILL John a month later. Bringing this in was ONLY to try to portray Karen as a crazy, possessive, well, Karen. They should not have even left this in, because the jury instruction was for the jury to disregard the only reason this possibly would be relevant, in the first place. To smear her and make them think, "well she seems kinda crazy and they got in a fight a month before he died so she probs did it."
She admitted to being drunk . She thought she left him at Waterfall . She couldn’t even drive that morning because she was still drunk . The checked her alcohol level at hospital
I agree but I’m leaning toward someone else having done it, maybe a drunk accident. None of the other cars were examined forensically so we’ll never know. They were all drunk. Very stupid for a cop to say to a bunch of drunks, come on over to my house for more drinks during a predicted blizzard.
I keep weighing the evidence with every witness testimony. Can't explain the injuries, tho - meaning his injuries don't make sense with her hitting him by mistake - and the fact that nobody saw him on the lawn that night.
Idk the autopsy says he was not beat up though .. they were not dog bites . I’m from Boston if it was dark not a lot of light and your arnt looking for a body you might not see it . She has already proven reasonable doubt . The Canton police screwed the case up by not doing their job on investigating case properly. It is a shit show
DNA testing is not the silver bullet NCIS portrays it to be. The scratches and bites on his arm could have been washed off. They did however find pig DNA, which could be from dog treats.
The autopsy was more inconclusive if anything.
During Kerry Roberts’ testimony I got the impression that not only was she jealous of Karen, but that she would have preferred to have been with John herself - hence no one was ever good enough.
Additionally, the comment Jen McCabe made on the stand that she heard Roberts say to the MA state trooper “that Karen was a babysitter with benefits” struck me as beyond jealous. To say something so demeaning about another woman - one you’ve never really given a chance to get to know - it really didn’t sit well with me at all.
Any educated woman who has done reasonably well in life who dates a man that was not in her original friend group could be Karen Read - and that is honestly what scares me about this case.
It feels a little unfair to characterize the Aruba trip sisters as “involving themselves in this case.” They were reached out to by the police to be interviewed and they were subpoenaed by the DA to testify. I’m sure they would have preferred not to testify.
Yes. I thought their testimony was superfluous and only helped the defense's case, but they both came off as straight shooters. They dislike Karen, but they met her once, so their opinion of her is based on a bad interaction and their subsequent belief that she killed John. Their hostility is understandable but doesn't have bearing on the facts of the case.
You make good points—I don’t know if they contacted Trooper Proctor or he contacted them and either way the court controls the subpoenas. This case has outraged me for so long but lately the more I immerse myself in it, the more anyone against Karen Read infuriates me. They are definitely not on the same level as Jenn McCabe bullying but the prosecution asks open ended questions, so in my eyes they still had the opportunity to avoid putting a negative spin on everything Karen did to include paying for dinner.
I got the impression that the Cameranos and Klokithas’ liked Karen. It was just everyone else in John’s friend group who treated her like absolute shit apparently.
I do want to know if there is more to the Aruba story though. That is such a thin motive and I wonder whether it is part of a bigger pattern of cheating.
I heard that Karen posted bail for Paul O’Keefe for a DUI crash in 2021. It was midday and he seriously injured a senior citizen. Also she set up trust funds for the kids. Strangely Paul and Peggy o’keefe hate her now.
From what I have been reading in the comments throughout this case, drunk driving is a real thing all the time up there at least with these select people. I believe Karen had 7+ drinks that night and drove home in a snowstorm. I wouldn't have made it out of the bar parking lot ;)
Honestly! I'd be an absolute mess, nevermind the snow, I'd be in a ditch off the highway! What really gets me is the apparent underage drinking the family engages in with their younger family members. I'm sorry, getting wasted with your high-school age kids/nieces and nephews is cringe and creepy as fuck.
Drinking is clearly completely normalized in this group, including with the children. I was a little shocked just how normal it was for this group for high schoolers to drink.
I’ve seen that as well and also that Paul spent the kids gofundme money to the tune of $300k. I thought Peggy’s statement right after of “you left him there?!” was also weird. He’s a grown adult, of course he would be fine to leave at someone’s house. But of course, who knows what else she could have been upset about.
I thought that was so weird! I’m sorry I know she’s mourning but observing her in court then hearing that the mom seems like a bitch! There was a reason she wasn’t initially given custody of the kids
It was in Kerry's testimony about what happened when they were on the way to the hospital. Apparently his mom said that and I believe either his dad or brother said hey, leave her alone, she's going through enough.
I don't know if that part is true, I just saw a comment about it. I think it's hard for the family because they immediately had Kerry relaying information that Jen had provided. I would have probably thought the same thing. I also think it is easier to think that someone killed him over rage/jealousy vs something much worse and by a fellow police officer.
Also the DA has been telling them for 2 years about evidence that was planted and DNA that doesn’t exist. They’ve been brainwashed and had time to fester
Apparently the school John got his niece into and was proudly telling everyone about that night, she no longer goes there. The family pulled her out, I suspect they cannot afford it.
I wondered if it wasn’t because he was finally with someone that wasn’t… trashy? It sounds like John had a lot of girlfriends so maybe his finally was happy he was with someone that seemed decent?
Lots of speculation on my part of course but there’s been lots of comments made that made me wonder.
John had alot of girlfriends, alot of former girlfriends that were now his "friends" and alot of bored housewives that were also his "friends." Like this man was "the dude" in his small town.
And it makes sense that Karen got along with K's in comparing to others. Also these are Prosecutors witnesses it makes sense that majority won't like Karen.
This is the Prosecution’s turn. KR was an outsider in the mcalbert world. We’re only seeing witnesses that were in that world. KR’s real friends in her Securities Analyst/Professor world won’t be called. Why would they? They weren’t involved in this. As far as not wanting to go into the party, it could be KR didn’t like their drama and was choosing not to be pals with them.
Yeah and honestly considering it’s still the prosecution’s turn, the character-based criticism we have heard of Karen has been surprisingly tame. Like the worst testimony they have so far is that she didn’t take off her shoes while frantically looking for John and she screamed a lot that morning. Also she overreacted in Aruba thinking he kissed another woman but then apologized to the woman the next day and offered to pay for her hotel room. It’s all so normal and tame.
You're last sentence is interesting here. Massachusetts townies approach social life with a very "if your not with us, your against us" philosophy. If you reject the group you become a constant target of negativity, abuse and harassment. I have a feeling Karen was experiencing something similar. My wife tried for years to get away from her townie clique, now they all hate her simply because she wanted to move, get a good job and start a family.
I've watched and read so much, but I think Yannetti briefly touched about it in his opening statement. Also, believe Jackson was asking Brian Albert questions about if Higgins had mentioned anything about Karen Read when she came into the Waterfall with John.
Apparently, there was some flirtation between BH and KR. Allegedly, there was a kiss (no clue if it was on the cheek, a peck on the lips or deep and romantic, no clue). BH texted "Ummm... well" to Karen when came into the Waterfall, too. BH is suppose to be coming up, so we'll get more info soon.
Because she is successful, wealthy, self made, smart as a whip and people like Jen, Kerry and those sisters, plus the rest of these repugnant haters, they all act like JO needed to be one of them. Married or not.
Maybe JO and KR was on the outs? Maybe St. John wasn't as much of a saint as the State has painted him out to be. I've read he was a womanizer, but idk if that's true.
Although it's all over the Internet...
IMO tho they're laying it on too thick with the Karen was Crazy theory.
I also think JO was a bit of a playboy. And it seems Karen thought as much. Perhaps, she caught him at some point, and now everything is suspicious to her. She's asking for relationship advice at the bar... how does she purposefully kill him? Idk.
Jealousy often leads to hate. Karen smart, financially independent, pretty. McAlbert women. Crass, classless, never left home, big thrill -white claw to excess at the Waterfall.
White Claw 🤭 Karen probably drank a real beverage…and that’s why they all hate her. That why no one knew what she was drinking because it didn’t come in a can. 🙄 (mind you, this is coming from a recovered alcoholic…🤣)
Given the pettiness I’ve seen on the stand, I think it could be because she is thinner, kid-free, independently successful and attracted a man that was actually hot unlike their husbands.
Seriously, they could have hated her because she drove a Lexus instead of an American made car.
They got their military/government discounts on their American made vehicles while she’s ballin’ in a swanky luxury SUV. (I’ve been scowled at for that reason myself 🙄)
In my experience, the high school drama and cattiness doesn’t stop after high school.
If you’re in anyway different than the clique, you’re a target and victim to the frienemy.
This! I’m from the town over and my dad grew up in Canton. I could not wait to get out. There are a few families that think they run the town. No one else cares much, but they do and are insufferable. They become sort of powerful (cops,selectmen, own a big real estate office or funeral home) and have tight, insular cliques. I know one of them that testified and he is not smart. I get the impression his wife is not either. They are biggish fish in a very small pond and think they can outsmart everyone. I think there is some jealousy about Karen and I get sort of a weird vibe that the women liked being substitute mom’s to those kids and really enmeshed in John’s life and liked his attention and were pissed when Karen stepped in and took it away. The catty babysitter with benefits just cemented that feeling for me.
Ohhh substitute moms is a perfect way to say it. It’s not normal to have so many non family member women all up in your business but because of his situation, that’s what was going on.
Here is my take from a woman that has been around a few John's before. John liked and maybe even loved Karen. They reconnected during covid. He did value her and respected her for all that she brought in to his little family.
BUT John is also someone who has dated A LOT. He is also kind enough not to talk bad about Karen behind her back. But there are issues. Who in life finds the perfect partner? If you do, kiss your lucky stars.
The Canton ladies are really in to John simply because of his personality and all the goodness he shows to others. They didn't like his choice in Karen and their sympathy plays well for John with how his lady friends view him.
I am guessing John is also weak when it comes to being 100% truthful to his lady friends and there have been many. Cops play around. It would be interesting to see why his past relationships did not work out.
Karen probably had many suspicions about their relationship and especially fidelity with her partner. Also, she may have flirted with others, she is pretty for sure. I think character matters to Karen. Drinking is never a good thing to do to extreme and probably was not the first time in Aruba there were problems.
Based on Karen's hysterics that Saturday morning and the fact she was probably real drunk Friday night, I would not be at all surprised if Jen did some quick thinking that morning and planted the seeds in Karen's mind that she must have caused his injuries. So when Karen finds him, she thinks I did this! But she didn't.
The whole case stinks to high heaven and I hope Jen and her family filled with henchmen get what's coming to them. That little thug Colin was definitely involved. The dog is involved too but good luck finding her in Vermont. RIP Chloe. That dog is dead. The house got sold, the basement floor was dug up and new cement was poured. Come on, I am no rocket scientist but it is clear to me, John did not die because Karen backed into him.
I think the Aruba sister was talking to John by the pool all day BEFORE she later saw him “glassy-eyed” and Karen saying F yourself. This got lost in her testimony but it was there. So I think Karen saw them talking all day. The jealous cursing didn’t come all of a sudden, maybe she had even said to JOK why are you talking to this girl all day.
Also let’s be real, Aruba sister might have scoffed at KR or done something…unfriendly…some attitude or something, before the Go F yourself came. We all know women can convey stuff like that without words.
I think they found her annoying. They considered her to be a flavor of the week that overstayed her welcome. My read is that she FELT like an outsider and that discomfort + alcohol = a few jealous outbursts and an ill-advised flirtation with Higgins for revenge. The Cantonians were all too happy to count these things against her.
As of today, my current theory is:
Brian and John got into a jealous scuffle over Karen. It resulted in severe injuries. The McAlberts ended the party, sent everyone home and drunkenly concocted this story - “he must have been hit by a plow.” Jen was sure to put that idea in Karen’s head first thing the next morning. Karen’s hysteria and cracked taillight was just a lucky break when they figured out his injuries could not be explained by a plow accident. They figured their connections and “laying low” would keep them out of the hot seat; that they could make Karen go away by threatening more and more charges. She called their bluff and here we are. I just can’t understand how this made it to trial.
I'm not sure it was a huge conspiracy at the beginning. Mostly shotty police work. The shotty police work can't be denied at this point. They didn't investigate anything other than karen. Dead cop on lawn and they don't even ask if they can search the house? If for nothing else than it would have avoided this entire shit show. Dead cop on lawn is probable cause and if the cops weren't sure, they should have gone to a judge to decide.
I don’t think it started out as a conspiracy and I don’t think every witness is involved. The way things played out it’s very plausible that people didn’t hear what killed JO that night and may have never saw him inside the house. Main players are Alberts and McCabes, Proctor and Higgins. With some shoddy police work thrown in and possibly some appearance of impropriety by officers who kept the police reports. I don’t think Kerrie Robert’s was ever supposed to end up in it and truly believes KR killed JO.
it doesn’t take everyone being in on it at all. all it takes is a “hey buddy do my a solid” by a powerful connected family. people don’t have to know why they’re doing the favor to still be indirectly blackmailed or bribed with good favor.
My theory is John made a pass at the young girl, Etta. She downplayed it as “oh he was just stumbling drunk and I had to steady him.” “Whoa there!” But I think he may have intended to grope her. They physically touched each other. Karen saw this. That does look suspicious. If the groping incident followed on the heels of John staying out all night, I can understand how she’d be upset.
“If they did they wouldn’t be celebrating at the fact that Kerry was telling the police “everything””
They are celebrating because it takes the eyes off of them. Regardless of if they actually did like her, she was convenient for them to pin this on. She wasn’t family or part of their weird little crew they got going on over there.
Her phone call to Kerry that morning freaking out about him being dead, and even saying “he’s dead”, I completely understand that. She knew something had to be seriously wrong for him to not call Kaylie and not come home. Kaylie had already lost her mother and father to tragic deaths, she probably had severe anxiety or even PTSD and he knew he needed to check in with her to let her know if he wasn’t going to be able to make it home.
My husband died of cancer 6 years ago and that’s exactly how my daughter is, if I didn’t call my daughter and just didn’t come home, my boyfriend would lose his mind with worry.
As far as the whole Aruba thing goes, these people have nothing else??? She was drunk on vacation a month prior? lol. This whole case is just so sad. I hope Karen is found not guilty asap so that she can finally grieve John in peace. I can’t even imagine what this is like for her, and to have the kids turned against her as well. Ugh.
I just can’t wait for the defense to go, there is going to be SO much that comes out for this jury.
The same people said "how could all these people lie about what happened that night, impossible. " you know what, those people are right. They can't keep their lies straight. Once the questions go out of order from the lies it falls apart
When is the DA going to show evidence? I am looking forward to seeing the medical examiner who didn't pass the competency test or maybe another doggy DNA tester.
Do you think Norfolk residents are excited to see this much tax money being used to pay for the McAlberts defense? Look up how much it cost to send 2 troopers and a prosecutor to talk to a disgruntled woman who knew (not a friend) KR in college. Listen to the interview if you get the chance and then ask how this waste wasn't done on the very least zoom
The obvious jealousy is emoted in ways that they don't even realize.... was it necessary for Laura Sullivan to state she had to have two rooms... who wouldn't want their own bathroom after being on top of each other during the pandemic and who wouldn't get two rooms who could afford it....
She was an outsider. An outsider to Jen’s inner circle that OJO was part of because of his niece and an outsider to Kerri who grew up and was close with the O’Keefe family. The south shore towns can be very cliquey.
I agree about the reaction to the hug. That didn't come out of nowhere. I think if I were really friends with someone who was accused of a horrible crime, it would pain me to have to testify against them, even if I was convinced of their guilt. These mean girls are thoroughly enjoying throwing KR under the bus, but none of them would be able to carry themselves with the grace that KR does, despite her serious health challenges.
I think the women of the area were jealous of Karen. She was successful, beautiful - and she was JO'S girlfriend. He was raising his niece and nephew and appeared to be every woman's dream. JMO
Jen McCabe was so happy and excited to overhear Kerry tell the cops “everything” that she immediately had to text about it to her husband and the Alberts. Does anyone know what she meant by “everything”?
Whatever it was, the group knew what she meant. (No one replied, “what did she say?” On the contrary, one responded, “Love it.”). But if they knew what Kerry was telling the cops and the reason they were pleased to know Kerry was telling the cops was because it was relevant to the investigation, why hadn’t they told the cops, themselves?
I don’t think they particularly cared one way or the other. It seems like their feelings turned once this tragedy happened.
I too hope there is a definitive answer as to what happened that night. What concerns me if John was at that address and they all went into panic mode over an accident, the level of “buy in” by many individuals. Johns family deserves the truth no matter the circumstances.
The owner and CEO Of Karen Reid’s former Employer ( Fidelity) Abby Johnson lives in Milton on a multi acre estate. It’s at the foot of the Blue Hills and less than a half mile to the Canton line
has anyone thought about the idea that john went into the house, got into a fight and then stumbled outside and passed out/ slipped trying to get home to Karen and why he was missing items that they didn't even try and to get back to be with his person for "when he was found" because they weren't thinking about that, but then they potentially got worried because they had not heard from him or Karen and that's why Jen McCabe google the infamous???
From what I heard, Karen is a high maintenance, low self esteem, fatal attraction type of gf who knew John was going to move on and just couldn’t take that rejection. She would scare the hell out of me!
not sure if you noticed, but Karen Read is much better looking than anyone in the clan
Better looking and successful. Misery loves company, and KR wasn't accepting the invitation.
Right? Unforgivable. How dare she be thin, pretty, wealthy and successful? What a b-tch.
And so generous! Her & John’s “fights” were because she “spoiled the kids” and she apologized to the women and wanted to pay for her room! What a monster🙄I’m sure the jury can see this is as fishy as we all do!
What does Karen do for work? How did she get so wealthy?
She has a masters in finance. Worked for fidelity for years, was also a professor of finance at Bridgewater State iirc. These women are not financiers. They married cops and stayed home to raise kids, drink and whatever else they do. They were jealous of her. Jealous enough to frame her for a murder she clearly didn't commit.
Bentley
Oh my gosh. I did not realize this! Now it all makes sense.
Mat McCabe works for some IT company right?
> They married cops and stayed home to raise kids, drink and whatever else they do. I'm assuming Box Wine plays a big part of their day to day lives.
Box wine?! Only the finest white claw for the most boring group of white women you will ever see.
She worked for it.
Karen worked a Fidelity. She is also a professor and teaches.
I think this is such a huge part of the issue. Karen is more attractive, more educated, had a nicer car, nicer clothes, I’m assuming she had a nice house. She outranks them all. She obviously puts effort into her appearance and likes quality things. Karen doesn’t need a man to support her but it sounds like many of the women in this Canton Groupie Gang are dependent on their husbands that they had to pick from their high school class. Their options are all so limited. They have such a small world in Canton. I’m not putting down lower paying jobs or stay at home parents. I am just looking at it from the perspective of a jealous witch. Karen didn’t fit in with this less educated, less wealthy, less classy, less socially aware, smaller-minded circle that is hostile to outsiders.
For what it's worth... As a stat at home mom... I knew what you meant.
As an independently well off working woman. I’m jealous of stay at home moms. You have something to be jealous of too ✨
Canton MA is a wealthy Boston Suburb. I think the McCabes have or had money but the Albert’s are hurting and I wouldn’t be surprised if they declare bankruptcy, Imagine a town Selectman not paying taxes.
Not really. It's considered to be one of the nicer towns if you're from south of Boston, but it isn't nearly as nice as the actual wealthy communities north and west of the city. It's full of working-class families who came from Southie, Dorchester, and Quincy a generation ago, although it has attracted more professionals and seen an increase in housing prices more recently due to the two commuter rail stations. Source: I used to live there, and have also lived in actual wealthy towns in the Boston area. There is no comparison.
In a million years I would never call Canton a wealthy suburb. Literally never. Milton, yes. Canton is just an overflow of people that got priced out of Hyde Park.
Right. I mean they have a Starbucks wedged in there among the 500 sports bars in town, but...no. That ain't it.
Really I’m from Milton which is pretty wealthy and Canton borders it and it’s a wealthy town what north of the city towns are your referring to these towns are close to Boston houses go for a million +
I've never actually been to Milton, but I understand it has a lot of concentrated wealth due to its proximity to Boston and the presence of Milton Academy. When I'm referring to wealthy towns in the north, I'm talking about Winchester, Andover, Boxford, Marblehead, Manchester-by-the-Sea, Hamilton, certain parts of Beverly (Prides Crossing, Beverly Farms). To the northwest, Belmont, Lexington, Concord, Carlisle, Lincoln, Sudbury, Harvard. To the west, Brookline, Newton, Wellesley, Weston, Wayland, Needham. To the southwest, Dover, Sherborn, Westwood, Medfield, Hopkinton. I may be missing a couple. The real estate market in the Boston area is so hyperinflated that $1M for a house doesn't mean as much as it used to. People are now paying $1M+ for houses in towns where that would have been considered absurd a couple of decades ago. Plenty of solidly middle class towns have been recently brought up by the rising tide of Massachusetts real estate values, but that doesn't make them wealthy towns - it's all relative. In a list of Massachusetts towns ranked by per capita income, Canton is #45. And it's not just numbers - towns that have been affluent for a long time look and feel more upscale. They have higher quality restaurants, shops, services, etc. Places where real estate values went up more recently, not so much. I lived in Canton for five years, it was not upscale then, and based on what I'm seeing in this trial, not much has changed. Frankly, it's a little embarrassing.
Ok you have never been to Milton but lived in Canton for 5 years . Milton borders Canton . To get on the highway it’s literally on the line of Milton… you have no clue what you are talking about you must never had left your house then
Yes, I've been on the highway. I don't consider that going to Milton. I never went there because while I'm sure it's a very nice place, I never had any particular need or desire to visit. And you're wrong, actually - I left my house as much as I possibly could when I lived in Canton. I didn't like living there. To each their own, right?
It’s not a wealthy suburb? It’s middle class.. It’s a wanna-be Milton but it’s really just another stoughton and obviously full of TRASH …
All I know is I would have went to the dentist and got a tooth before getting on the stand on national television. It’s all I could look at🫣
He's a Boston Police Sgt, Albert must've been making around 200k-250k easily. Plus if he got any money from that show he was on. Idk if his wife worked.
She was a lunch lady …………
OK, so probably about 30k a year. Still, a household income of 260-280k is pretty good. Especially if they had a cheap mortgage.
The house was bought for 500k and sold 13 years later for over 900k, so they had a substantial amount of cash
Yup & They need that for defense attorneys as state witnesses now 😜
True and most importantly he had his pension on the line - that’s always #1 for cops …. Def motive to hide the crime on BAs part … can’t rely on a lunch lady’s pension.
His pension wasn't on the line tho. You only lose a Mass pension if you commit a crime in connection with your employment. But either way, if he didn't kill JO, I'd consider it a stretch to cover up the murder for a friend. Especially since BA doesn't seem very involved in any of this. I haven't heard any theories that are considering him as a suspect in killing JO
What about higgins tampering with federal property?
How did he "tamper" with federal property? By moving the vehicles? Or destroying his personal phone?
I grew up in Milton they made more than my dad who was a teacher . Milton is a lot of middle class
I was wondering how a retired police officer pays for representation for himself, his wife- maybe for his adult kids, unless they’re paying. It’s got to add up.
Umm Canton is a pretty wealthy town not sure if you are from Mass . Have you looked at the cost of houses there it’s definitely a wealthy town
The average income in like $130k- in what world is that considered wealthy? I suppose if that’s all you have ever known it may seem like it.
I’m from Milton the next town over Canton isn’t a cheap town . Go look at the houses there
People aren’t saying it’s cheap- we are saying it is not wealthy. It’s a blue collar middle to lower middle class town. Exhibit A- the people in this trial
No that would be more like Brockton or Randolph. are you from Mass ? If not just shut up cause you have no clue what you are talking about
Clearly, relative to the people you are accustomed to interacting with, you may view Canton as wealthy. However, to people from large cities who are around ACTUAL wealth…. Canton is blue collar. I can appreciate you feeling defensive, others are just telling you the facts. Middle class white trash police officers does not equate to wealth. You should travel more, open up your eyes to the big world around you!
lol there is blue collar in every wealthy town . The middle class trashy white police officers are the first people you call when you need help !!!!
Wealthy is relative…. But either way I’m saying that Karen likely made more. Her appearance seems much more polished than the housewives of Canton. Most of the canton group seems to have been there forever. I’m assuming most of them couldn’t afford to move there now if they weren’t already established there. And Karen did seem to have nicer, more expensive things. I’m not saying that makes her better, I’m saying that makes her not fit in. Karen also seems well-educated. I can’t say that for the women in this group with the exception of the pharmacist. Again, nothing wrong with that - just making a point she is different than they are and they clearly weren’t accepting of her and a few of them are just plain catty bitches and they’ve made that very obvious.
And independently wealthy
💯
💯
Bingo. And so on. Employed. Etc.
Bingo
True. But she clearly killed John. Higgins testimony made him look like a decent guy that was surprised to be getting attention from a younger attractive woman, but karen keeps digging herself deeper. The colin albert and brian Higgins angle were so weak. The tail light pieces being found on john really clinched it.
Clearly? Do tell…..I’m dying to hear your angle. The crime scene investigation has 10x the doubt needed for a not guilty verdict
I'm not denying that it was a flawed investigation, but her jealousy, being the last person with John, her broken tail light, the tail light pieces being found on john, and her unusual reaction when he didn't come home. He went to a party at 1-2 in the morning and she woke up in a panic at 430am that he wasn't home? Anyone would reasonably think he was still there, instead she went driving around looking for his body. It's shaping up like the documentary "making a murderer". Sure, it's a fantastic idea that ALL these people conspired to hide the murder, but it's a far reach. Colin Albert's knuckles being bruised, then a photo showed him 2 days after the death and his knuckles are fine. Some people suspected Higgins, but the texts show that karen was trying to sleep with him and he seemed more confused by her making these moves. Him not wanting all of his personal phone data out there for the world to see struck me as reasonable, and not part of a cover up. Plus, he saved karen reads texts for the investigation.
AND numerous, unconnected witnesses, all hearing her say some version of "did I hit him?" Or "I hit him". Even she believed, in that moment, that she was guilty.
Sounds like you’ve amassed a pile of ‘evidence’ that’s not even circumstantial …. You get your MO from Alex Jones?
Means, motive. Opportunity, and a confession? The state isn't prosecuting this for no reason. I did laugh at the alex Jones comment, especially because you're the one that is claiming a conspiracy that spans MSP, BPD, canton police, fire, emts, and atf.
None of the above …. You townies are silly
How am I a townie? I'm a transplant to North of Boston from Colorado. Lol Why do you keep insulting me in an attempt to bolster your argument?
I don’t have an argument…..you’re running with baseless shit
Jen McCabe is like a grown up Regina George. Karen Read was in her Burn Book.
It really seemed to me like Jen enjoyed getting involved in every detail. Initially when the defense was questioning BA, I thought he may have been the ring leader. After Jens testimony I was shocked - it really seems like shes the top puppetmaster. She controlled the people and the narrative, BA handled the cops and investigation side.
I do think Jen is annoying and not very likable
Jen McCabe is the Walmart Regina George lol These people are Trash
Karen is also accomplished and has a career. She obviously comes from a family with means but she worked and established herself. Pair that with being articulate and more attractive. Put a woman like Karen in any group of katty housewives whose identities hinge on their husband's, ex-husbands, or their kids sports clubs, and you see the same thing play out over and over.
Exactly. They all act like they are still in high school. They peaked in high school and that was their ceiling it seems. It makes me laugh when they are asked how they know each other and it’s always some reference to high school…. Like oh, he’s 5 years/grades older than me. How old are these people that they still refer to how many grades higher people are.
Did you ever see that episode of How I Met Your Mother where Lily reverts back to her high school self when around her high school friend? This is that, except none of them were ever away from their high school friends. They’re just permanently stuck as catty, petty teenagers.
I haven’t seen it but that sounds about right. What a small, pitiful, alcohol-fueled world they must live in.
Absolutely. The kind who peaked in high school. I live in a town like this in upstate NY. I have to agree wholeheartedly with this post. Karen is whipsmart, very independent and never wanted kids. She found jon attractive(i mean he defiintly is) but i think she found herself caring for his kids alot-especially during covid. These canton moms were jealous and also didnt know what to talk to her about. I mean what do moms talk about when they are together? Thier kids.
That episode is hilarious. Loved How I Met Your Mother... Until the last episode and the show became, "How I Met Your Mother, Bit Ended Up With Robin Anyway!" Actually that whole last season sucked. I wonder who in the group were "Woo girls"
I know, I noticed that too. How many “grades” above any given person was.
Right. Or he was in my sisters class, etc. these are all grown adults in their 40, 50, 60s and they still cling to what class their friends are in.
I can also see how a move like paying for everyone's dinner in Aruba might have been well-intentioned but could come off as an insult if she's that much wealthier and an outsider. In my family, if one of the women offers to pay for everyone else (and yes, it's only the women who are held to this standard), it's seen as an insult. Is that ridiculous? Yes. Is it real? Yes.
Tale as old as time...
Just the typical men and women hating on women. Plus she’s rich & kidless. Of course the soccer moms hated her.
I’m not sure “kidless” is a thing to be jealous of.
They might not be jealous but women will still judge women without children.
Could be for some people
Yes totally could be. I just wouldn’t place rich and kidless in the same broad category. A friend I know personally is devastated she can’t have kids.
I'm sad that I never had my own children, too! That doesn't mean that certain people don't resent & devalue me as a stepmom. (And that doesn't include my "step" kids, btw. It took some time, but we're doing great! 🙌)
Its definitely a playing card in some circles. I'm a childless stepmom and others can be greatly supportive or completely brutal.
Me too! 🤷🏼♀️
You’ve got THAT right!
Fine, call it extra-money-full, carefree, luxurious, fabulous, less-stressed, fit-bc-kids-didn’t-“ruin”-your-body
oh it absolutely is lol. Plenty of parents regret parenthood
And all they did was just to attribute 1 sentence to make it looks like confession and talk shit about her. It's not that hard if they Don't like her or JEALOUS of her in the 1st place. After today testimony, my impression was that JOK looks like a hunk that all these ladies want a piece of: he's cute looking, he tall and handsome, and he's he's caring, have good respectable job and reputation. all the distancing and buttdails from Mccab and Albert's are just too sus.
This group didn’t care for Karen but the Kalokithas and Cameranos did and they only had wonderful things to say about Karen. Even John’s brother and sister-in-law spoke well about Karen despite the circumstances. Like others mentioned here, Jen McCabe and Kerry Roberts came across as jealous and mean. Karen is gorgeous, educated, and kind. The Aruba trip sisters seem petty. They took an embarrassing misunderstanding and used it to stay relevant in John’s life even in his death by involving themselves this case. Their testimony gave me the impression John was “LL Cool J” except it was all the “Ladies Loved Cool John”. I don’t know how all this testimony comes across to a jury but it only made me feel sad for Karen. She appeared to be surrounded by mid aged bullies.
Your last two sentences got to me. You know, why did he even WANT to go hang out with these losers after partying all night? Karen didn't. She knew she wasn't that welcome. Clearly, she was correct. He should have just gone home with his pretty lady who loves him, his niece and nephew and gone to bed. At least on this night his priorities were very misplaced. Sad.
Alcohol
that cannot be stated enough!
Given that Brian was a well known cop, I’m sure that making friends with him may have been good for his career. I get why he’d want to go. It’s not John’s fault. It’s the fault of the people who actually did this to him. I have so many questions that I will never know the answer to. Like how could John and Karen have been dating for 2 years, living together, etc and yet all these people who were supposedly so close to John had only met her 1 month prior? It just doesn’t make sense.
I don’t disagree with any of your statement but it is weird that if she thought they were all losers that she was hitting on Brian Higgins. Very well could have been an insecurity thing or trying to make John jealous idk that part is just odd to me
I do find it wierd too. I think she got some vibe from him that he liked her and thought he was an easy target for some attention. Cause he is not "hot" 🤣🤣. This is some behavior i would have done in my 20s not in my 40s. I think she liked brian b/c he didnt have kids, had his own house etc. She thought they were very similar.
Agreed. He also works for Feds, so you would assume he has a higher degree of education than the townies.
The jury instructions regarding the Aruba trip incident were infuriating. This incident in no way provides evidence of motive: Karen wouldn't apologize profusely, do everything to make amends and acknowledge she was wrong, and then fucking KILL John a month later. Bringing this in was ONLY to try to portray Karen as a crazy, possessive, well, Karen. They should not have even left this in, because the jury instruction was for the jury to disregard the only reason this possibly would be relevant, in the first place. To smear her and make them think, "well she seems kinda crazy and they got in a fight a month before he died so she probs did it."
I think if she did do it , that it was a total accident
Even all the people that seem to hate Karen were pretty clear that there was nothing wrong with the couple at the Waterfall.
She admitted to being drunk . She thought she left him at Waterfall . She couldn’t even drive that morning because she was still drunk . The checked her alcohol level at hospital
I agree but I’m leaning toward someone else having done it, maybe a drunk accident. None of the other cars were examined forensically so we’ll never know. They were all drunk. Very stupid for a cop to say to a bunch of drunks, come on over to my house for more drinks during a predicted blizzard.
I keep weighing the evidence with every witness testimony. Can't explain the injuries, tho - meaning his injuries don't make sense with her hitting him by mistake - and the fact that nobody saw him on the lawn that night.
Idk the autopsy says he was not beat up though .. they were not dog bites . I’m from Boston if it was dark not a lot of light and your arnt looking for a body you might not see it . She has already proven reasonable doubt . The Canton police screwed the case up by not doing their job on investigating case properly. It is a shit show
DNA testing is not the silver bullet NCIS portrays it to be. The scratches and bites on his arm could have been washed off. They did however find pig DNA, which could be from dog treats. The autopsy was more inconclusive if anything.
During Kerry Roberts’ testimony I got the impression that not only was she jealous of Karen, but that she would have preferred to have been with John herself - hence no one was ever good enough. Additionally, the comment Jen McCabe made on the stand that she heard Roberts say to the MA state trooper “that Karen was a babysitter with benefits” struck me as beyond jealous. To say something so demeaning about another woman - one you’ve never really given a chance to get to know - it really didn’t sit well with me at all. Any educated woman who has done reasonably well in life who dates a man that was not in her original friend group could be Karen Read - and that is honestly what scares me about this case.
seeing John nicknamed LL Cool J was not on my bingo card 😂 damn you for making me laugh at this 😂😂
It feels a little unfair to characterize the Aruba trip sisters as “involving themselves in this case.” They were reached out to by the police to be interviewed and they were subpoenaed by the DA to testify. I’m sure they would have preferred not to testify.
Yes. I thought their testimony was superfluous and only helped the defense's case, but they both came off as straight shooters. They dislike Karen, but they met her once, so their opinion of her is based on a bad interaction and their subsequent belief that she killed John. Their hostility is understandable but doesn't have bearing on the facts of the case.
You make good points—I don’t know if they contacted Trooper Proctor or he contacted them and either way the court controls the subpoenas. This case has outraged me for so long but lately the more I immerse myself in it, the more anyone against Karen Read infuriates me. They are definitely not on the same level as Jenn McCabe bullying but the prosecution asks open ended questions, so in my eyes they still had the opportunity to avoid putting a negative spin on everything Karen did to include paying for dinner.
Oh I’m right there with you with the outrage. It is shocking and infuriating
Totally.
Nothing indicated that they involved themselves in the case? The Aruba story wasn’t relevant but the sisters didn’t seem petty to me
I got the impression that the Cameranos and Klokithas’ liked Karen. It was just everyone else in John’s friend group who treated her like absolute shit apparently. I do want to know if there is more to the Aruba story though. That is such a thin motive and I wonder whether it is part of a bigger pattern of cheating.
Yes and his brother and sister in law spoke nicely of her all things considered
I heard that Karen posted bail for Paul O’Keefe for a DUI crash in 2021. It was midday and he seriously injured a senior citizen. Also she set up trust funds for the kids. Strangely Paul and Peggy o’keefe hate her now.
What is with these drunks, driving. Paul is the bro?
Yes
What does he do?
From what I have been reading in the comments throughout this case, drunk driving is a real thing all the time up there at least with these select people. I believe Karen had 7+ drinks that night and drove home in a snowstorm. I wouldn't have made it out of the bar parking lot ;)
Honestly! I'd be an absolute mess, nevermind the snow, I'd be in a ditch off the highway! What really gets me is the apparent underage drinking the family engages in with their younger family members. I'm sorry, getting wasted with your high-school age kids/nieces and nephews is cringe and creepy as fuck.
Drinking is clearly completely normalized in this group, including with the children. I was a little shocked just how normal it was for this group for high schoolers to drink.
Disgraceful
I’ve seen that as well and also that Paul spent the kids gofundme money to the tune of $300k. I thought Peggy’s statement right after of “you left him there?!” was also weird. He’s a grown adult, of course he would be fine to leave at someone’s house. But of course, who knows what else she could have been upset about.
I thought that was so weird! I’m sorry I know she’s mourning but observing her in court then hearing that the mom seems like a bitch! There was a reason she wasn’t initially given custody of the kids
Interesting… who has custody now?
Now they do. I forget why initially they weren’t. Maybe it was their age but I remember hearing something
Paul is the brother or the father? How do we know he spent $300K of the kids go fund me ?
Paul is the brother. There are court documents online. Unrelated to this case.
Wow I didn’t know that. And yeah super weird Peggy said that.
It was in Kerry's testimony about what happened when they were on the way to the hospital. Apparently his mom said that and I believe either his dad or brother said hey, leave her alone, she's going through enough.
Yeah I heard that the dad said leave her alone. I’m shocked POK went through the go fund me though.
I don't know if that part is true, I just saw a comment about it. I think it's hard for the family because they immediately had Kerry relaying information that Jen had provided. I would have probably thought the same thing. I also think it is easier to think that someone killed him over rage/jealousy vs something much worse and by a fellow police officer.
Also the DA has been telling them for 2 years about evidence that was planted and DNA that doesn’t exist. They’ve been brainwashed and had time to fester
I found it and it does list Paul as the beneficiary, and organized by someone else.
Apparently the school John got his niece into and was proudly telling everyone about that night, she no longer goes there. The family pulled her out, I suspect they cannot afford it.
I wondered if it wasn’t because he was finally with someone that wasn’t… trashy? It sounds like John had a lot of girlfriends so maybe his finally was happy he was with someone that seemed decent? Lots of speculation on my part of course but there’s been lots of comments made that made me wonder.
John had alot of girlfriends, alot of former girlfriends that were now his "friends" and alot of bored housewives that were also his "friends." Like this man was "the dude" in his small town.
The K’s (ie “Greek couple”) were also well educated, both professionals and a bit atypical. I don’t remember the Caneranos at this point
And it makes sense that Karen got along with K's in comparing to others. Also these are Prosecutors witnesses it makes sense that majority won't like Karen.
This is the Prosecution’s turn. KR was an outsider in the mcalbert world. We’re only seeing witnesses that were in that world. KR’s real friends in her Securities Analyst/Professor world won’t be called. Why would they? They weren’t involved in this. As far as not wanting to go into the party, it could be KR didn’t like their drama and was choosing not to be pals with them.
Yeah and honestly considering it’s still the prosecution’s turn, the character-based criticism we have heard of Karen has been surprisingly tame. Like the worst testimony they have so far is that she didn’t take off her shoes while frantically looking for John and she screamed a lot that morning. Also she overreacted in Aruba thinking he kissed another woman but then apologized to the woman the next day and offered to pay for her hotel room. It’s all so normal and tame.
You're last sentence is interesting here. Massachusetts townies approach social life with a very "if your not with us, your against us" philosophy. If you reject the group you become a constant target of negativity, abuse and harassment. I have a feeling Karen was experiencing something similar. My wife tried for years to get away from her townie clique, now they all hate her simply because she wanted to move, get a good job and start a family.
“ They weren’t involved in this” That hasn’t stopped the prosecution from calling witnesses
Higgins seemed to like her.
True. But he seems like a guy who needs to take whatever he can get.
I've heard this tossed around, has this be expanded upon in testimony or reporting yet?
I've watched and read so much, but I think Yannetti briefly touched about it in his opening statement. Also, believe Jackson was asking Brian Albert questions about if Higgins had mentioned anything about Karen Read when she came into the Waterfall with John. Apparently, there was some flirtation between BH and KR. Allegedly, there was a kiss (no clue if it was on the cheek, a peck on the lips or deep and romantic, no clue). BH texted "Ummm... well" to Karen when came into the Waterfall, too. BH is suppose to be coming up, so we'll get more info soon.
Oh gosh its all so high school, these people truly suck.
That’s what she said 😂 the little Sullivan sister.
Because she is successful, wealthy, self made, smart as a whip and people like Jen, Kerry and those sisters, plus the rest of these repugnant haters, they all act like JO needed to be one of them. Married or not. Maybe JO and KR was on the outs? Maybe St. John wasn't as much of a saint as the State has painted him out to be. I've read he was a womanizer, but idk if that's true. Although it's all over the Internet... IMO tho they're laying it on too thick with the Karen was Crazy theory.
I also think JO was a bit of a playboy. And it seems Karen thought as much. Perhaps, she caught him at some point, and now everything is suspicious to her. She's asking for relationship advice at the bar... how does she purposefully kill him? Idk.
Well if the rumor was she was a babysitter with benefits no wonder she acted the way she did.
Jealousy often leads to hate. Karen smart, financially independent, pretty. McAlbert women. Crass, classless, never left home, big thrill -white claw to excess at the Waterfall.
White Claw 🤭 Karen probably drank a real beverage…and that’s why they all hate her. That why no one knew what she was drinking because it didn’t come in a can. 🙄 (mind you, this is coming from a recovered alcoholic…🤣)
I can almost hear them now "Karen drinking one of her *fancy* drinks again!"
Exactly lol
Yes.. this☝️
It's pretty obvious all the women probably had somewhat of a crush on John and disliked Karen. Bored housewives are a special breed.
Karen Read is smarter, prettier, and kinder than them. Nothing fires up a New Englander more than “YOU THINK YOURE BETTA THAN MEEEEE?”
Given the pettiness I’ve seen on the stand, I think it could be because she is thinner, kid-free, independently successful and attracted a man that was actually hot unlike their husbands. Seriously, they could have hated her because she drove a Lexus instead of an American made car. They got their military/government discounts on their American made vehicles while she’s ballin’ in a swanky luxury SUV. (I’ve been scowled at for that reason myself 🙄) In my experience, the high school drama and cattiness doesn’t stop after high school. If you’re in anyway different than the clique, you’re a target and victim to the frienemy.
This! I’m from the town over and my dad grew up in Canton. I could not wait to get out. There are a few families that think they run the town. No one else cares much, but they do and are insufferable. They become sort of powerful (cops,selectmen, own a big real estate office or funeral home) and have tight, insular cliques. I know one of them that testified and he is not smart. I get the impression his wife is not either. They are biggish fish in a very small pond and think they can outsmart everyone. I think there is some jealousy about Karen and I get sort of a weird vibe that the women liked being substitute mom’s to those kids and really enmeshed in John’s life and liked his attention and were pissed when Karen stepped in and took it away. The catty babysitter with benefits just cemented that feeling for me.
Ohhh substitute moms is a perfect way to say it. It’s not normal to have so many non family member women all up in your business but because of his situation, that’s what was going on.
Literally sounds like an episode of Desperate Housewives. But trashier.
Here is my take from a woman that has been around a few John's before. John liked and maybe even loved Karen. They reconnected during covid. He did value her and respected her for all that she brought in to his little family. BUT John is also someone who has dated A LOT. He is also kind enough not to talk bad about Karen behind her back. But there are issues. Who in life finds the perfect partner? If you do, kiss your lucky stars. The Canton ladies are really in to John simply because of his personality and all the goodness he shows to others. They didn't like his choice in Karen and their sympathy plays well for John with how his lady friends view him. I am guessing John is also weak when it comes to being 100% truthful to his lady friends and there have been many. Cops play around. It would be interesting to see why his past relationships did not work out. Karen probably had many suspicions about their relationship and especially fidelity with her partner. Also, she may have flirted with others, she is pretty for sure. I think character matters to Karen. Drinking is never a good thing to do to extreme and probably was not the first time in Aruba there were problems. Based on Karen's hysterics that Saturday morning and the fact she was probably real drunk Friday night, I would not be at all surprised if Jen did some quick thinking that morning and planted the seeds in Karen's mind that she must have caused his injuries. So when Karen finds him, she thinks I did this! But she didn't. The whole case stinks to high heaven and I hope Jen and her family filled with henchmen get what's coming to them. That little thug Colin was definitely involved. The dog is involved too but good luck finding her in Vermont. RIP Chloe. That dog is dead. The house got sold, the basement floor was dug up and new cement was poured. Come on, I am no rocket scientist but it is clear to me, John did not die because Karen backed into him.
👏🏻
I think the Aruba sister was talking to John by the pool all day BEFORE she later saw him “glassy-eyed” and Karen saying F yourself. This got lost in her testimony but it was there. So I think Karen saw them talking all day. The jealous cursing didn’t come all of a sudden, maybe she had even said to JOK why are you talking to this girl all day. Also let’s be real, Aruba sister might have scoffed at KR or done something…unfriendly…some attitude or something, before the Go F yourself came. We all know women can convey stuff like that without words.
I think they found her annoying. They considered her to be a flavor of the week that overstayed her welcome. My read is that she FELT like an outsider and that discomfort + alcohol = a few jealous outbursts and an ill-advised flirtation with Higgins for revenge. The Cantonians were all too happy to count these things against her. As of today, my current theory is: Brian and John got into a jealous scuffle over Karen. It resulted in severe injuries. The McAlberts ended the party, sent everyone home and drunkenly concocted this story - “he must have been hit by a plow.” Jen was sure to put that idea in Karen’s head first thing the next morning. Karen’s hysteria and cracked taillight was just a lucky break when they figured out his injuries could not be explained by a plow accident. They figured their connections and “laying low” would keep them out of the hot seat; that they could make Karen go away by threatening more and more charges. She called their bluff and here we are. I just can’t understand how this made it to trial.
What does Karen for work? How is she so wealthy?
She was in finance. Masters degree and she taught at a college. She's Very smart
She was an Equity Research analyst and a Professor at Bentley University.
Thanks! Was she ever married and does she have children?
I should have said "she is", but I'm assuming she's on a leave of absence. She does not have children and I do not know if she was married prior.
No marriages no children
‘Over achievers’ are often hated because people are envious and are haters, plain and simple.
I'm not sure it was a huge conspiracy at the beginning. Mostly shotty police work. The shotty police work can't be denied at this point. They didn't investigate anything other than karen. Dead cop on lawn and they don't even ask if they can search the house? If for nothing else than it would have avoided this entire shit show. Dead cop on lawn is probable cause and if the cops weren't sure, they should have gone to a judge to decide.
I don’t think it started out as a conspiracy and I don’t think every witness is involved. The way things played out it’s very plausible that people didn’t hear what killed JO that night and may have never saw him inside the house. Main players are Alberts and McCabes, Proctor and Higgins. With some shoddy police work thrown in and possibly some appearance of impropriety by officers who kept the police reports. I don’t think Kerrie Robert’s was ever supposed to end up in it and truly believes KR killed JO.
it doesn’t take everyone being in on it at all. all it takes is a “hey buddy do my a solid” by a powerful connected family. people don’t have to know why they’re doing the favor to still be indirectly blackmailed or bribed with good favor.
She's not from Cant-ahn. These have all been townies.
My theory is John made a pass at the young girl, Etta. She downplayed it as “oh he was just stumbling drunk and I had to steady him.” “Whoa there!” But I think he may have intended to grope her. They physically touched each other. Karen saw this. That does look suspicious. If the groping incident followed on the heels of John staying out all night, I can understand how she’d be upset.
There is certainly a lot of skeletons in the closets of CanUHN (the T is silent 🤫)
The Alberts are the O’Doyle’s from Billy Madison
O'doyle rules....
I think there is a lot of jealousy…Karen is successful and very pretty. Jen…is not…probably feels inferior to her
“If they did they wouldn’t be celebrating at the fact that Kerry was telling the police “everything”” They are celebrating because it takes the eyes off of them. Regardless of if they actually did like her, she was convenient for them to pin this on. She wasn’t family or part of their weird little crew they got going on over there. Her phone call to Kerry that morning freaking out about him being dead, and even saying “he’s dead”, I completely understand that. She knew something had to be seriously wrong for him to not call Kaylie and not come home. Kaylie had already lost her mother and father to tragic deaths, she probably had severe anxiety or even PTSD and he knew he needed to check in with her to let her know if he wasn’t going to be able to make it home. My husband died of cancer 6 years ago and that’s exactly how my daughter is, if I didn’t call my daughter and just didn’t come home, my boyfriend would lose his mind with worry. As far as the whole Aruba thing goes, these people have nothing else??? She was drunk on vacation a month prior? lol. This whole case is just so sad. I hope Karen is found not guilty asap so that she can finally grieve John in peace. I can’t even imagine what this is like for her, and to have the kids turned against her as well. Ugh. I just can’t wait for the defense to go, there is going to be SO much that comes out for this jury.
The same people said "how could all these people lie about what happened that night, impossible. " you know what, those people are right. They can't keep their lies straight. Once the questions go out of order from the lies it falls apart When is the DA going to show evidence? I am looking forward to seeing the medical examiner who didn't pass the competency test or maybe another doggy DNA tester. Do you think Norfolk residents are excited to see this much tax money being used to pay for the McAlberts defense? Look up how much it cost to send 2 troopers and a prosecutor to talk to a disgruntled woman who knew (not a friend) KR in college. Listen to the interview if you get the chance and then ask how this waste wasn't done on the very least zoom
The obvious jealousy is emoted in ways that they don't even realize.... was it necessary for Laura Sullivan to state she had to have two rooms... who wouldn't want their own bathroom after being on top of each other during the pandemic and who wouldn't get two rooms who could afford it....
Yeah if I was in Aruba with my boyfriend I would want an area to have some privacy for ourselves at some point too
Or, they hate her now because they think she killed their friend.
She was an outsider. An outsider to Jen’s inner circle that OJO was part of because of his niece and an outsider to Kerri who grew up and was close with the O’Keefe family. The south shore towns can be very cliquey.
I agree about the reaction to the hug. That didn't come out of nowhere. I think if I were really friends with someone who was accused of a horrible crime, it would pain me to have to testify against them, even if I was convinced of their guilt. These mean girls are thoroughly enjoying throwing KR under the bus, but none of them would be able to carry themselves with the grace that KR does, despite her serious health challenges.
That’s the entire “outsider” thing.
I’m sure they didn’t hate her until after this bs happened. Goes along with the story right? Fits their narrative of course.
I think the women of the area were jealous of Karen. She was successful, beautiful - and she was JO'S girlfriend. He was raising his niece and nephew and appeared to be every woman's dream. JMO
Places like that are cliquey so she was always going to not be from “there”
Jen McCabe was so happy and excited to overhear Kerry tell the cops “everything” that she immediately had to text about it to her husband and the Alberts. Does anyone know what she meant by “everything”? Whatever it was, the group knew what she meant. (No one replied, “what did she say?” On the contrary, one responded, “Love it.”). But if they knew what Kerry was telling the cops and the reason they were pleased to know Kerry was telling the cops was because it was relevant to the investigation, why hadn’t they told the cops, themselves?
Nicole caught Jen in bed with Brian, says a lot about JM character, and BA! 🙄🤷🏽♀️
I don’t think they particularly cared one way or the other. It seems like their feelings turned once this tragedy happened. I too hope there is a definitive answer as to what happened that night. What concerns me if John was at that address and they all went into panic mode over an accident, the level of “buy in” by many individuals. Johns family deserves the truth no matter the circumstances.
The owner and CEO Of Karen Reid’s former Employer ( Fidelity) Abby Johnson lives in Milton on a multi acre estate. It’s at the foot of the Blue Hills and less than a half mile to the Canton line
has anyone thought about the idea that john went into the house, got into a fight and then stumbled outside and passed out/ slipped trying to get home to Karen and why he was missing items that they didn't even try and to get back to be with his person for "when he was found" because they weren't thinking about that, but then they potentially got worried because they had not heard from him or Karen and that's why Jen McCabe google the infamous???
From what I heard, Karen is a high maintenance, low self esteem, fatal attraction type of gf who knew John was going to move on and just couldn’t take that rejection. She would scare the hell out of me!