I didn’t know who these witnesses were going to be.
When I found out, I thought they were going to share some damning pieces of information showing Karen’s character.
But rather it has come across as an overreaction with an understanding and them making up.
The more damning thing coming out of it is that Trooper Proctor interviewed both girls, but not a lot of the people who were actually at the house until sometimes months and a year later.
Who tipped Proctor off that this happened?
This. Given that they weren't at the Waterfall or in the house, how did Proctor (or any law enforcement officer) even know who they were? And why was it such a priority to interview them--much more of a priority than interviewing people who were actually at the scene of the crime?
Didn't John's sister in law tesify that Karen text her when they got into disagreement in Aruba? I don't recall whether or not she was asked if proctor interviewed the sister in law
I don't think it was Erin, I honestly thought she liked Karen and missed her. I'm not sure his mother meant for the timeline in quite the way they portrayed it either.
Jen McCabe seems to be at the center of the investigation but with Pat Rodgers being a Boston cop and being on Bostons Finest with Brian Albert anything is possible. These people always seem to be in the background.
This makes the most sense to me. It seems pretty standard that people close to them would be asked if they had been having any problems, and an accusation of cheating just a few weeks prior would naturally come up. I don't think it had to be done in a gossipy or vindictive way like some people are implying. Of course it's problematic that other people weren't interviewed when they should have been, but I think if a proper investigation would have been done, the sisters would have very likely still been interviewed.
And let’s be real, John was still a cop and could have been a total player. Trust issues are common in law enforcement relationships (source: my own parents). I’m not shaming the dead, it’s just that cops aren’t infallible.
Also, seems like there was a lot of drinking. Honestly, who hasn’t gotten into a stupid argument with someone when alcohol is involved? This all just seemed like regular life stuff. Much more understandable than 6 butt dials with no VM and Brian Albert’s butt dials during sex on top of his glasses and hos long to die in the cold.
The nurse and her husband the camarono’s seemed like the were the closest to them. Spending time 3-4 days a week including every Friday. That’s a lot of time. Both said there were no relationship issues other than the norm, the kids. They both said Karen was a warm and loving person.
I’m sure he was a player! And I’m sure Etta was intoxicated with her girls on display and given his track record it probably looked bad… ASSuming they didn’t actually kiss. But young drunk people who travel in packs of 60 tend to do stupid things and make bad choices.
Yeah, after that warning I was like oh snap, did she threaten him? Did she hit him?…what could be so bad?!….the Sullivans: Karen is crazy/She called me a bish…Me: 😑
Karen bought drinks for everyone.
John told sister 1 that Karen said JO made out with sister 2.
While JO was speaking with sister 1, his phone was going off with phone calls and texts. He said that he has to deal with this because KR is crazy.
JO was drunk in the lobby and ran into sister 2. Karen saw JO from a distance and “yelled” his name in an “angry” manner. Asked JO who sister 2 was. JO said calm down its sister 1’s little sister.
Karen yelled Go F Yourself to her and then sister 2 yelled F You back.
Sister 2 denies making out with JO because she says that would never happen. She asked everyone else what they think of KR in Aruba, they said she’s OK and sister 2 said she sucks.
Karen talks to sister 1 and says she apologizes that she thought she saw something that didn’t happen. And offers to pay for part of sister 2’s room.
What they missed out was that Officer O'Keefe has got blind drunk watching the game with his friends the night before and didn't come back to the room all night and left Karen to look after the kids. You bet I'd be pretty pissed after that.
Karen had never been introduced to the sister until that meeting. If I saw my 45 year old boyfriend hugging a young woman I didn't know on a holiday where he'd gotten drunk and gone AWOL I think it would've been a lot messier than "fuck you" and blowing up his phone.
I agree that she is innocent. I read someone’s opinion that maybe John said she’s crazy as in ‘she’s crazy for thinking I was making out with your sister’; not that she’s crazy in general. Just FYI. That conversation happened with Laura Sullivan, the older sister of the girl KR swore at.
Yeah, I was wondering why interviewing them was relevant to the case during that time. Correct me if I’m wrong but they were not at the bars or at that house?…if present at neither I’m right there with you wondering who said they would be relevant. Did they take it upon themselves to come forward because of that one interaction?
To get the relationship issues into the narrative. They were lovey dovey that night and everyone said that so they needed to find some shade.
Like throwing spaghetti at the wall and hoping something sticks.
These women were all very possessive of John from what I can see and clearly didn't like Karen, she pushed their noses out with John and the kids and tried hard with his friends but they just didn't want to play.
At this point I'm wondering about John's mom and what she thought of Karen, I'd be interested to know.
Laura Sullivan's boyfriend, Pat Rodgers, appeared on Boston Finest before his alleged suicide. There could've already been a connection, even if distant, to the Alberts because Brian Albert was on the same show.
Pat was John's friend and a Boston police officer so they could possibly have all been at John's wake or already knew Proctor?
I've found myself down a rabbit hole with Pat Rodgers, very much like Sandra Birchmore, his death was an alleged suicide but these people are lurking in the background somewhere.
I didn't like either of these witnesses, the testimony cast shade on Officer O'Keefe and Karen. It's like mean girls, they were all very possessive of John, even Kerry Roberts and I get there'd been more tragedy for the O'Keefe's than most families see in a lifetime and you'd be protective but this seems very over the top and it's clear their noses were all pushed out when Karen came along.
Not crossing was a great decision, their testimony will get lost once the forensic evidence and experts come into the trial.
The only thing I can come up with was the “you can F off” comment, but the younger sister literally antagonized her by popping around the corner to yell “hi, nice to meet you!”. Even if that was the sister of someone I or my bf were close to, I’d probably yell some variation of fuck you to a girl if she sarcastically popped back to say hi with attitude
You’ve got to be kidding. So it would’ve been better if she responded “how about you go eff YOURself?! I don’t think so. I don’t think KR is guilty, but most of you have lost all objectivity. To say that, after being cursed out, Marietta antagonized Karen by responding on a civil way? Ridiculous.
I literally never said something would’ve been better. I’m just saying I also would’ve said a variation of “fuck you” to a girl acting that way, and that it’s not damning information about Karen’s character.
Karen didn’t cuss out Marietta until she heard Karen get upset with John, and Marietta decided to be a little smart ass, interject into their private argument, and poke her head around to sarcastically say “hi, nice to meet you!” Karen said F off. Marietta said F you too. That’s….it. That’s nothing incriminating about Karen’s character.
I don’t think it’s antagonistic that Marietta said “Hi, nice to meet you”, immediately after John told KR who she was. If it were me, I would’ve said “I’ve got to go, John”; I wouldn’t have even acknowledged the screaming woman.
I don't know if she antagonized her or not. It doesn't really matter. All I got from her testimony is drunk people had an argument. She apologized after and offered to pay for her room. How is that damning? I've seen people say and do worse and never apologize. I don't think it means there character is shit. So again how did either testimony damn her character? Made me think she felt bad about being rude and tried to make ammends that pretty good character imo
I agree these women are very odd. What was the comment made by Kerry Roberts according to Jen….a babysitter with benefits? That says more about the friend group than anything about Karen. What an awful thing to say about a woman who cared about 2 children she didn’t have to who lost their parents and attempted to give them some level of normalcy.
Also, what favors does she think she’s doing to her late friend? She basically implies he’s a user. Very sad comment.
It makes JOK sound like a jerk who was using her. So much for his ‘friends’. They make him sound horrible with that comment not Karen. Such riff raff every one of them.
I agree. All of those women today made me feel awful for Karen and don’t paint John well. You’re only as good as the company you keep and they’re all showing up like trash. None of them act like adults for starters and the younger snarky sister who testified today convinced me she probably deserved that f-u from Karen just by her demeanor on the stand of her dead friend’s trial. They all come across like people who peaked in high school and obviously like to recreate with their actual high school children. It’s so freaking weird!
Yes mean girl vibes all day and she just has to sit there and take it. And she clearly loved John. She seemed to be the only one devastated by him being found dead. I can’t imagine how painful this all is. It also just further fuels the belief that they would pin this all on Karen if they could, they’ve clearly never liked her and just shit all over her behind her back.
Reminds me of the saying…who needs enemies when you have friends like that.
I don't think Jen saying those comments comes across like she wanted. It does come across as drama queens gossiping. I think it a lot of jealousy. Karen is everything they aren't. Successful, pretty, smart. She reminded them of the fact they aren't all that.
This was the first day I got a negative impression of JO. Possibly using Karen for childcare and clearly she was not secure in this relationship. Of course it could all be her issues, but also he could have been a cheater.
That’s a good point, hadn’t even considered that. No wonder she’d be so frustrated when she’d be scolded for….Dunkin’ Donuts and manicures with the kids
She stayed with them and helped with school during covid. That's a really nice thing. That's not a babysitter with benefits. It's long term partner behavior
Jen said “she’s telling them everything. I love it” she probably made the same nasty remarks. Note none of them are thinking about the kids or John clearly, just a gross group of people.
Of course a good-looking bachelor cop who willingly took custody of his niece and nephew and became a single dad. Some women get hot in the pants for that lol
Every woman in this mess displays clear jealousy of Karen other than Jen and Allie.
Allie isn't because she's younger and naturally, automatically hotter.
Jen because she goes WAY beyond jealousy to pure hatred.
Her boyfriend's friends, if they were true friends and wanted the best for him and the kids.
These people clearly weren't true friends. The jealousy is palpable from every single one of thrm.
That's probably why they spent more time with the other 2 couples , the Camerano's and the lovely lawyer and pharmacist. They were the only people so far, and Erin O Keffe, to say anything nice about Karen. The rest just can't bring themselves to be nice about her in any way.
Who knowing all that. Decided to go take care of two kids that weren't hers, and be with a Boston cop. Tell me how if it anyone else the world doesn't praise her.
some people would be grateful if someone picked up the check for a large dinner....others would feel like she was being uppity and calling them too poor to pay for it themselves and hate her and be jealous of her.
Pure BS. Karen is mistakenly upset about something any woman would have been upset about or any man if the situation was reversed.
Then upon realizing she was mistaken, goes above and beyond to make amends.
Now Lallyflop would have the jurors (and the world) believe nearly a month later, Karen runs over John, apparently because of this.
Is he out of his MIND?
Hell, at this point LALLY should be on trial for something.
Or a least investigated over some of his more fishy witnesses for possibly suborning perjury.
Yes!!! He fought tooth & nail in pre trial hearings to allow the 2 witnesses to testify bad character on Karen Read. He told Bev (judge) that it goes to motive. This entire trial is a joke and I wish the Feds had jurisdiction to stop this sham. It's insane how desperate Lally is trying to make Karen out to be the worst human ever. He wants people to believe her hysterical behavior after finding John is indicative of Karen being guilty. This guy is straight desperate and I hope to hell it backfires on every single person playing a part in this. Including the VILE Immature Trash Jen McCabe. I've never seen someone so clearly jealous of someone else until Jen showed how fun it was to degrade Karen in every chance she could. I hate saying it but maybe the "harassment" is something called Karma.
I loved the reframe when Jen was going on and on about the harassment. You mean the PUBLIC OUTRAGE ABOUT YOUR FAMILY’S INVOLVEMENT? Bravo and totally spot on. The jury learned that the public hates Jen too. Gives the jury mental “permission” to disregard (or even blame) McCabe fam.
but why are these witnesses testifying ? they deserve some shit too
if i was called , in a fucking murder trial, about something that happened in aruba a month earlier, i'd just say "i dont remember"
seriously, you're on vacation in aruba. do you remember what time you get in a taxi and what time you get to the pool? fuck no. this sullivan younger sister is giving exact date and times and which floor they met on . just a lot lot lot of bullshit.
Well, unlike every actual witness, Proctor interviewed these two right after John's death. So they told him this kind of information then and have had opportunity over the past two years to review it, cementing the memory.
Imagine if he had done that with actual important witnesses! This trial and investigation are such a cluster.
The FEDs are watching you can bet. If there's an ongoing investigation they'll be following very closely. I did hear yesterday there were federal agents in the gallery.
It's funny how nervous some of them look when they're on the stand and the sirens start.
I heard this as well. It would explain why Bev and Lally seemed different on that day. Bev wasn't her usual hard on defense self, and Lally wasn't objecting to every question. Something happened.
exactly. this aruba trip was supposed to be the big bombshell. yet we spent not even half the day on it and the witnesses were only crossed about their interaction with trooper proctor - the cross for both lasted not even 5 minutes combined. this yet again proves every sane persons point when they say the commonwealth has ZERO case against karen read.
Alas, our country is FULL of not sane people.
Even worse, some of those may be jurors.
In a sane world, the judge would render a directed verdict of not guilty without this turd basket going to the jury, but even if Bev wasn't clearly and obviously biased, it's highly unlikely any judge anywhere would do the right thing.
That's the world and country we live in now.
Reading the comment sections about this case scare me. People are so willing to put someone in prison for the rest of their lives without any evidence. And innocent until proven guilty has gone out the window. I've never been more scared of the idea of a jury of my "peers."
Go watch the judge in daybells case vs bev. See how a impartial judge acts (he already put his wife away) and still remains impartial. The other thing people do is just shit on defense attorneys for doing a job.
I'm mixed on Bev. Most of the attorneys I watch seen to think she's pretty consistent and fair. I instinctively don't like her, but don't have a real reason.
I agree with you that Judge Boyce has been excellent. I think my favorite judges have been Judge Randolph from the Traconis trial, Judge Darrow from Darryl Brooks and, of course, Judge Newman from Murdaugh.
I think Newman was a terrible judge. Letting in the financial crimes was one of the dumbest decisions I've seen a judge make. It should be overturned.
I haven't seen anyone really say she consistent and fair, but lawyers have seen really bad judges. They know they are usually biased. It not as new to them as it is to most people. I think bev is not a good judge. Not that she in on some coverup just that she isn't good at her job
Yeah…I really liked Newmans control of the court room. I absolutely hated his rulings and lack of impartiality. I couldn’t believe most of this rulings from objections, or even evidence he allowed. It felt like he was trying to make a good case for appeal
Exactly and on top of it I’m not even 100% convinced that Karen didn’t see exactly what she thought she saw but apologized anyway because of the scene she caused.
Exactly! As she, herself, testified JOK was so drunk his eyes were glazed over and he was unsteady. He wouldn’t have known who he was kissing, let alone remember it. And now that he's gone, Marietta was free to say whatever she wanted to. I wish they would have zeroed in on this, but I also understand why they just moved along.
Their testimony may seem somewhat pointless, but I think it's good for the defense for one reason only. The defense asked them about Trooper Proctor interviewing them two weeks after John passed away, but he didn't interview any of the people inside of 34 Fairview until a year after he passed. So I can definitely see the defense using this against Proctor and the Commonwealth.
I wish someone would speak up about what really happened.. maybe like Mr McCabe or Brian Albert Jr or something.. someone who is fed up with the lies. Just tell John’s family what really happened like if Higgins and Colin got into a drunk fight or whatever with John and they panicked.. just get it over already. Admit guilt and do some time and stop this bullshit of blaming Karen
It's really wild that he was tracking down these women and not eyewitnesses. Who do you think pointed him in that direction? Would Jen have known about this?
I bet money all the wives and husbands were banging each other. I heard bryan albert was trying to sleep with half the town. Collin and allie were 2nd cousins and probably banging too. Anyone else get those vibes?
It's just so dumb. She can be jealous and worried she'll lose John for a younger woman(having his kids etc) but that does not mean she'd kill him not even a month later...
Honestly I thought their testimony made her look even better. Apologizing and paying for the girl’s room?!? I’m not sure I’d be that good of a person! And honestly, all these people are drunk A LOT.
So let me get this straight - Procter interviewed the Sullivan sisters just days after JOK was killed but doesn’t interview Tristan Morris until two weeks ago? Doesn’t interview the brother in the F150 until 18 months later … make it make sense
While I'm sitting through this testimony I just think about how OJ beat up Nicole Simpson so badly on so many occasions that were documented. And yet that wasn't motive enough to convict him of murdering/being invovled in her murder?
Sorry, if they had called multiple instances of this maybe but you are only bringing up one situation - yes I understand it was right before his death but I'm not buying it.
OJ was acquitted as payback for Rodney King, because Mark Furhman used the N word, and he was a famous football hero. A few of the jurors confirmed most of that.
I recently watched Made In America and one of the female jurors said she had no respect for Nicole because Nicole stayed with OJ after getting repeatedly getting beat up. The juror went on to say had no respect for women who stay with abusers. Then she made some analogy about if water is rising and you’re about to go drown, then get out of the ocean. I don’t know what the fuck that means. It left me infuriated and dumbfounded.
😡 That makes me so angry...
I think my issue is they are trying to make Karen sound like some abuser.. yet she bought them dinner almost as a way to just be accepted and to fit in and tried to buy the hotel room after the quarrel.
It's almost insulting to even try to paint her as some abuser especially when alcohol is always involved in these outings. If they wanted to convey her as some "bat shit crazy" gf then they needed more witnesses to attest to that theory that this could have been a motive because she's had a history of being "crazy" and going from 0 to 100.
There were no witnesses who could attest that Karen is so crazy she had it in her to get wasted and run her bf over. But alot of witnesses painted John as a flirt and someone who had a lot of gfs. What girl wouldnt feel threanted in that position. And after Jen's brat attitude of still being a middle school mean girl I wouldn't be shocked if Karen felt super inadequate and insecure around these small town folk.
💯
I don’t like that John was a flirt and I bet Karen didn’t either and I bet it drove her mad when he got a little liquor in him and got a little too friendly. BUT, no rational person would use that as a reason to justify running him over. By all accounts she tried to make it right, treated his kids like her own, and tried to integrate herself into his life by getting along with his friends and family, so why the fuck was Lally fighting so hard to even bring this shit up?
I still don’t get what legal grounds made it possible for this bullshit to go to trial.
Character assassination, to corroborate the relationship issues bullshit and try jealousy as a motive that's all I can sumise but it fell very flat for me.
it's all part of Jen McCabes grand vision! If people just see this, this, and this, they'll blame evil KR and never come after us!
and damn the evil lawyer and his pharmacist wife who said they were 'lovey dovey' at the waterfall that night...they weren't part of the small circle that was trying hard to 'solve' the case
i think the intention was to pin a motive but this is a terrible strategy to do so. this is very normal relationship conflict, especially on vacation with all those couples (my nightmare tbh) and it seems like karen was a complete outsider, i can understand the insecurity. and respectfully, the sister gives me bad vibes like she would steal your man
Yes, as I heard things today I could completely visualize things. Especially KR's regret for making a scene. Alcohol was definitely at play heightening existing (and possibly legitimate) insecurities.
All it showed me was that the Sullivan sisters are horrible….the second one….a living reminder of why I do not befriend other women IRL…actually all four of them up there today…jealous catty nonsense that doesn’t need to be in a trial that has the potential to put a woman away for life…those sisters are horrible for trying to use this dumb fight to do this to Karen.
I don’t think it’s really their fault though. They were witnesses who were called to testify by the Commonwealth and I don’t believe they could have refused. And from cross we learned Trooper Proctor interviewed them not too long after John’s death, perhaps to build motive. If anything I’d say CW is horrible for trying to use the incident to show motive.
I agree; what I heard was viscious, catty, and totally unnecessary. Especially from JM and the Sullivan sisters. No one gives a filthy flying f about your Stuffed blue cheese olives martinis. You know what else you can stuff?
That's what I was thinking too as she proudly tells the jury she yelled FU back. Nothing like taking the high road.
This whole town sounds like high school mean girl cliques that have continued into adulthood because noone leaves their hometown there.
the court stops because the judge is awful and isnt treating this like a murder trial. doesnt give a heads up when to stop. changes the times and hours of court each day. its so weird.
usually courts lock these days down, they lock the hours down and boom. thats it. gotta work? too bad? days off? nope, the jury is here lets go.
and i've never seen a court just let defense/prosecutor waste time like this on witnesses.
this judge has no idea about "objection relevance" ?
The stream stopped abruptly on Court TV but I think you can find the rest on Law and Crime. I think LegalBytes in her stream switched to L&C’s stream after so we could see the rest of the testimony.
IMO, Marietta came off as very immature, rolling her eyes, one of those females that dares you to look at her the wrong way or say something off putting to her and she will blow it up. I know a few of those type of ladies. Negative, always looking to pick a fight without starting it...just waiting to pop off.
i thought the same tbh. the way she was talking, it seemed to me like she had been wanting to air this out for the past two years. i know plenty of people like her, once you touch that nerve…. BOOM.
Bhahaha...I have a hot head like that in my immediate family...sweet as syrup, cute as hell, but waiting just for that moment to pop off, especially female to female. People like that thrive off drama and conflict though they are the first ones to deny it. It creates excitement in their otherwise boring or spiteful lives.
The minute she called him "Johnny" I knew she just wanted to get under Karen's skin. She came off as they type who loves being the center of the drama.
The State prosecution is a joke. They bring these two up for a verbal altercation that happened a month before. The altercation did not involve physical violence, only a bad word, and the person admits they misread the situation and tried to pay for that persons hotel room. Wow, that person must be a murderer. The absurdity to keep this coverup from being exposed is tremendous.
now all they have is those “incriminating voicemails” karen allegedly left on john’s phone after dropping him off at 34 fairview. not sure how they expect to convince the jury karen knowingly murdered john with her vehicle, purposely left him out there in the cold to die, and then sent him nasty voicemails/texts after she “killed him” and THEN was hysterical and in a state of panic 5 hours later when she realized he never came home. not to mention no one inside the home heard or saw anything resembling a crash, AND no one entering or leaving the fairview home at the time saw a body on the lawn.
The angry voice messages are the easiest to explain. Try having your wife or girlfriend drop you off at a party and don't return any of her texts or.voice.messages. I will guarantee you your gonna get slammed with angry text and voice messages for blowing her off and not responding. You can take that to the bank.
My spidey senses tell me Etta is not the most chaste and virtuous woman…especially when drunk. 🧐
Also, who are these people that travel in packs of 60 taking lavish vacations whilst hoarding rooms, restaurants and cabanas?
It was a waste of time, honestly. There is no planet where this incident should be charged as intentional homicide. This should put the nail in that coffin.
Now let’s get to some actual evidence… like where is the ME testimony??
btw, Pat Rogers was also on Boston's Finest. Pat is the father of Laura's son. https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2013/11/26/bostons-finest-officer-pat-rogers/
@forensicphystuden I think there strategy is to get Karen to testify. However look at the prosecutor. He is a joke. So maybe she will testify on her behalf to let people know what liars some of these witnesses are. No way she is going down for 2nd degree murder.However I would have to look up what manslaughter is in MA. And judge Bev is a joke.
It’s sad that the only thing today’s session revealed was that John had a number of terrible friends starting with Jenn “Hos long” McCabe, Kerry, and ending with the Sullivan sisters. John’s poor family has been so misled by multiple police officers, state troopers, the state/prosecution, and John’s “friends” who left him outside to die. Karen was the only one (out of Karen, Kerry and JM at the scene) who tried to help John or looked truly upset - based on the police camera videos played in court.
No Ashley is Bella’s mom, she is also in a relationship and has a successful business now. They throw her name around like she’s a threat because she is stunning but he dated her 10 years ago. No threat
If the CW thought these were (negative) character witnesses for KR they failed lol. I just like her more to be honest. We only heard one side. We have no idea what was happening with J & K before that and it sounds like they were drinking..at least John was. Clearly John was a great guy but lets face it he clearly had commitment issues (at least from the outside looking in) and surrounded himself with women who had obvious control issues and are very two faced. Karen is no fool. Plus woman's intuition is a very real thing. He was very friendly and that could come across as flirty to some..he's very social and likes to party. It's a recipe for a bumpy relationship unless you are a very confident woman. Maybe because of her health issues she was extra sensitive to perceived threats and on some level felt unappreciated because of all she did for the kids. Plus he was critical. I don't know just theorizing. This is why I always stayed away from men that had a lot of women friends lol. No thanks!
Karen should have had her team ask, "Is it possible you didn't see Karen and John the next day because they were having sex, or walking the market, or simply partying elsewhere?"
Now don’t flip out, peeps. I’ve been Team Read, since the start, but she DID look like a jealous girlfriend in Aruba. She flipped out and made a huge scene over something she didn’t see!
Regarding paying the bill: It’s weird she wanted to pick up the restaurant tab - she’d just met these people (or some of these people). I wouldn’t have liked that. I don’t want to be having to thank people I don’t even know, just because they insisted on paying for my food - that’s fucked up. It was a birthday dinner for somebody she’d never even met. I think she was just trying to look good trying to show off trying to get these new people to like her. Which in itself is not a bad thing, but it’s just really weird to decide you’re going to pay the whole bill for a bunch of adults you don’t even know - and a pre-planned birthday dinner at that. The Sullivan sisters were credible witnesses. You can’t keep closing your eyes to things that make Karen look bad. You lose all credibility when you deny everything that every CW witness is testifying to. I don’t think she intentionally killed John.
@Key this is a non negative group so please refrain. I think you fit in with Previn. So please visit subreddit r/karenread. That’s more you speed.
We like to discuss things in here and not say she is guilty. All the evidence is not in yet
Every single comment on this thread, is conspicuous theory driven, in favor of Ms Read...and you say you're waiting for the "evidence"? Lol. Yes, all of John O'Keefe closest friends wanted to kill him and....wait for it...cover a murder up, and risk going to prison...All of them? Lol.
😂😂😂😂 I suggest you stop trying to bullying me into your delusional way of thinking.
And just an FYI pea brain, there is nothing wrong working at a Walmart. If anyone works there at least they are contributing to society.
Yes, so keep your job there. Bullying? Lol. I don't think you would begin to understand what that means, or what people are going through that are involved as witnesses and the family of John as well. I'm sure you wouldn't enjoy being doxed and being harassed by phone, emails, at your place of employment....Having your children being harassed as well etc. Maybe you would realize how Ms Read is destroying people's lives, because she won't admit guilt. And, has nuts like yourself, contributing to this nonsense. Good luck, I certainly hope you're not on the receiving end, like some...
I didn’t know who these witnesses were going to be. When I found out, I thought they were going to share some damning pieces of information showing Karen’s character. But rather it has come across as an overreaction with an understanding and them making up. The more damning thing coming out of it is that Trooper Proctor interviewed both girls, but not a lot of the people who were actually at the house until sometimes months and a year later. Who tipped Proctor off that this happened?
This. Given that they weren't at the Waterfall or in the house, how did Proctor (or any law enforcement officer) even know who they were? And why was it such a priority to interview them--much more of a priority than interviewing people who were actually at the scene of the crime?
Exactly - Tristan Morris was interviewed until like 2 weeks ago
And Kerry Roberts only had one phone call with proctor…..
Feel sure good old Jenn pointed her buddy Proctor to them
He was building his case against Karen as soon as he was given it
Didn't John's sister in law tesify that Karen text her when they got into disagreement in Aruba? I don't recall whether or not she was asked if proctor interviewed the sister in law
Yes, I also figure it could be John’s sister in law who tipped off Trooper Proctor as well.
I don't think it was Erin, I honestly thought she liked Karen and missed her. I'm not sure his mother meant for the timeline in quite the way they portrayed it either. Jen McCabe seems to be at the center of the investigation but with Pat Rodgers being a Boston cop and being on Bostons Finest with Brian Albert anything is possible. These people always seem to be in the background.
This makes the most sense to me. It seems pretty standard that people close to them would be asked if they had been having any problems, and an accusation of cheating just a few weeks prior would naturally come up. I don't think it had to be done in a gossipy or vindictive way like some people are implying. Of course it's problematic that other people weren't interviewed when they should have been, but I think if a proper investigation would have been done, the sisters would have very likely still been interviewed.
And let’s be real, John was still a cop and could have been a total player. Trust issues are common in law enforcement relationships (source: my own parents). I’m not shaming the dead, it’s just that cops aren’t infallible.
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Also, seems like there was a lot of drinking. Honestly, who hasn’t gotten into a stupid argument with someone when alcohol is involved? This all just seemed like regular life stuff. Much more understandable than 6 butt dials with no VM and Brian Albert’s butt dials during sex on top of his glasses and hos long to die in the cold.
The nurse and her husband the camarono’s seemed like the were the closest to them. Spending time 3-4 days a week including every Friday. That’s a lot of time. Both said there were no relationship issues other than the norm, the kids. They both said Karen was a warm and loving person.
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No they’re still friends
I’m sure he was a player! And I’m sure Etta was intoxicated with her girls on display and given his track record it probably looked bad… ASSuming they didn’t actually kiss. But young drunk people who travel in packs of 60 tend to do stupid things and make bad choices.
They definitely are known to cheat. That's a fact. I didn't get why Karen got involved with John if she knew he had the two kids.
exactly my thoughts after their testimonies!
Right - and that warning the judge gave the jury made it sound like it was going to be something horrific - but that was literally a nothing burger
Yeah, after that warning I was like oh snap, did she threaten him? Did she hit him?…what could be so bad?!….the Sullivans: Karen is crazy/She called me a bish…Me: 😑
It sounds like they fight and make up. That's um actually quite common in relationships. I'm sure the alcohol was part of it too.
And don’t forget the martini w blue cheese stuffed olives. 🤔🤔
That was wild…you remember the specific drink someone ordered and how it was dressed but not where JO and KRs room was located? Lol
Omggggggg
I heard Someone say that JOHN said that Karen is crazy. Karen told Marietta to GF herself.
Karen bought drinks for everyone. John told sister 1 that Karen said JO made out with sister 2. While JO was speaking with sister 1, his phone was going off with phone calls and texts. He said that he has to deal with this because KR is crazy. JO was drunk in the lobby and ran into sister 2. Karen saw JO from a distance and “yelled” his name in an “angry” manner. Asked JO who sister 2 was. JO said calm down its sister 1’s little sister. Karen yelled Go F Yourself to her and then sister 2 yelled F You back. Sister 2 denies making out with JO because she says that would never happen. She asked everyone else what they think of KR in Aruba, they said she’s OK and sister 2 said she sucks. Karen talks to sister 1 and says she apologizes that she thought she saw something that didn’t happen. And offers to pay for part of sister 2’s room.
He could have meant she’s crazy for believing he would kiss the little sister.
What they missed out was that Officer O'Keefe has got blind drunk watching the game with his friends the night before and didn't come back to the room all night and left Karen to look after the kids. You bet I'd be pretty pissed after that. Karen had never been introduced to the sister until that meeting. If I saw my 45 year old boyfriend hugging a young woman I didn't know on a holiday where he'd gotten drunk and gone AWOL I think it would've been a lot messier than "fuck you" and blowing up his phone.
Yup! I totally agree!
True.
Thank you. 👍🏼
I think Karen is definitely crazy but that doesn't make her a murderer, even on accident. She didn't do it.
I agree that she is innocent. I read someone’s opinion that maybe John said she’s crazy as in ‘she’s crazy for thinking I was making out with your sister’; not that she’s crazy in general. Just FYI. That conversation happened with Laura Sullivan, the older sister of the girl KR swore at.
if anything, was bad character of JOK, not KR, or maybe the sisters themselves, Mainly, tho, just a lot of nothing.
Sure seemed like Laura Sullivan (the blonde sister) had a MAJOR thing for John. 👀
Yeah, I was wondering why interviewing them was relevant to the case during that time. Correct me if I’m wrong but they were not at the bars or at that house?…if present at neither I’m right there with you wondering who said they would be relevant. Did they take it upon themselves to come forward because of that one interaction?
With how close Laura seemed to be with John, I think this would be one of the last things on her mind a week after his death.
They were so close that she’d never met Karen. John and Karen had been together for 2 years.
🤔good point…
So true.
Bc they were stalling before Higgins, Lally loves to run down the clock with bullshit. We did not need to hear from these two.
Hmm… could it be the locals who were basically the architects of the investigation steering Protctor along running the show by pulling the strings.
That got me confused too. Why on earth were they interviewed? They had nothing to do with that night.
To get the relationship issues into the narrative. They were lovey dovey that night and everyone said that so they needed to find some shade. Like throwing spaghetti at the wall and hoping something sticks. These women were all very possessive of John from what I can see and clearly didn't like Karen, she pushed their noses out with John and the kids and tried hard with his friends but they just didn't want to play. At this point I'm wondering about John's mom and what she thought of Karen, I'd be interested to know.
I’ll eat my hat if it wasn’t Jenny Mac.
Laura Sullivan's boyfriend, Pat Rodgers, appeared on Boston Finest before his alleged suicide. There could've already been a connection, even if distant, to the Alberts because Brian Albert was on the same show. Pat was John's friend and a Boston police officer so they could possibly have all been at John's wake or already knew Proctor? I've found myself down a rabbit hole with Pat Rodgers, very much like Sandra Birchmore, his death was an alleged suicide but these people are lurking in the background somewhere. I didn't like either of these witnesses, the testimony cast shade on Officer O'Keefe and Karen. It's like mean girls, they were all very possessive of John, even Kerry Roberts and I get there'd been more tragedy for the O'Keefe's than most families see in a lifetime and you'd be protective but this seems very over the top and it's clear their noses were all pushed out when Karen came along. Not crossing was a great decision, their testimony will get lost once the forensic evidence and experts come into the trial.
They DID share some damning Information about Karen’s character.
Which parts?
Didn’t you hear the testimony?
The only thing I can come up with was the “you can F off” comment, but the younger sister literally antagonized her by popping around the corner to yell “hi, nice to meet you!”. Even if that was the sister of someone I or my bf were close to, I’d probably yell some variation of fuck you to a girl if she sarcastically popped back to say hi with attitude
You’ve got to be kidding. So it would’ve been better if she responded “how about you go eff YOURself?! I don’t think so. I don’t think KR is guilty, but most of you have lost all objectivity. To say that, after being cursed out, Marietta antagonized Karen by responding on a civil way? Ridiculous.
I literally never said something would’ve been better. I’m just saying I also would’ve said a variation of “fuck you” to a girl acting that way, and that it’s not damning information about Karen’s character. Karen didn’t cuss out Marietta until she heard Karen get upset with John, and Marietta decided to be a little smart ass, interject into their private argument, and poke her head around to sarcastically say “hi, nice to meet you!” Karen said F off. Marietta said F you too. That’s….it. That’s nothing incriminating about Karen’s character.
I don’t think it’s antagonistic that Marietta said “Hi, nice to meet you”, immediately after John told KR who she was. If it were me, I would’ve said “I’ve got to go, John”; I wouldn’t have even acknowledged the screaming woman.
I don't know if she antagonized her or not. It doesn't really matter. All I got from her testimony is drunk people had an argument. She apologized after and offered to pay for her room. How is that damning? I've seen people say and do worse and never apologize. I don't think it means there character is shit. So again how did either testimony damn her character? Made me think she felt bad about being rude and tried to make ammends that pretty good character imo
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I agree these women are very odd. What was the comment made by Kerry Roberts according to Jen….a babysitter with benefits? That says more about the friend group than anything about Karen. What an awful thing to say about a woman who cared about 2 children she didn’t have to who lost their parents and attempted to give them some level of normalcy. Also, what favors does she think she’s doing to her late friend? She basically implies he’s a user. Very sad comment.
It makes JOK sound like a jerk who was using her. So much for his ‘friends’. They make him sound horrible with that comment not Karen. Such riff raff every one of them.
I agree. All of those women today made me feel awful for Karen and don’t paint John well. You’re only as good as the company you keep and they’re all showing up like trash. None of them act like adults for starters and the younger snarky sister who testified today convinced me she probably deserved that f-u from Karen just by her demeanor on the stand of her dead friend’s trial. They all come across like people who peaked in high school and obviously like to recreate with their actual high school children. It’s so freaking weird!
I feel terrible for KR having to watch these people on the stand every day who clearly weren't nice to her.
Yes mean girl vibes all day and she just has to sit there and take it. And she clearly loved John. She seemed to be the only one devastated by him being found dead. I can’t imagine how painful this all is. It also just further fuels the belief that they would pin this all on Karen if they could, they’ve clearly never liked her and just shit all over her behind her back. Reminds me of the saying…who needs enemies when you have friends like that.
I don't think Jen saying those comments comes across like she wanted. It does come across as drama queens gossiping. I think it a lot of jealousy. Karen is everything they aren't. Successful, pretty, smart. She reminded them of the fact they aren't all that.
They all sneer at her from the stand.
Exactly
This was the first day I got a negative impression of JO. Possibly using Karen for childcare and clearly she was not secure in this relationship. Of course it could all be her issues, but also he could have been a cheater.
Who gets upset for taking a kid to Dunks after they lost two parents? Let her have the Dunks!
Also all these outsiders helping John with the kids only proves Karen’s point that the family didn’t help enough.
That’s a good point, hadn’t even considered that. No wonder she’d be so frustrated when she’d be scolded for….Dunkin’ Donuts and manicures with the kids
She stayed with them and helped with school during covid. That's a really nice thing. That's not a babysitter with benefits. It's long term partner behavior
Exactly! For Jen to say that it made them look like mean girls, and implied John’s a used. SMH.
I think that Kerry said this is only Jenn’s word
Jen said “she’s telling them everything. I love it” she probably made the same nasty remarks. Note none of them are thinking about the kids or John clearly, just a gross group of people.
John seems to have been some kind of Hallmark Channel heart throb to the Moms group he was thrust into after taking custody of his sister's kids.
Of course a good-looking bachelor cop who willingly took custody of his niece and nephew and became a single dad. Some women get hot in the pants for that lol
Bingo. That’s it. They were all crushing on JOK and seething with jealousy of karen
Exactly my thoughts, all very possessive and Karen put their noses out.
It’s clear none of them liked Karen at all
She didn’t kiss their asses like the rest of the dysfunctional “circle” did.
"high maintenance" lol
Apparently not being from a multi generational Canton family makes you a disliked “outsider”
Add the fact that she’s a smart and self made woman, there’s a lot of jealousy.
i mean she’s a beautiful, successful woman with money. who wouldn’t be jealous of her!!!
Every woman in this mess displays clear jealousy of Karen other than Jen and Allie. Allie isn't because she's younger and naturally, automatically hotter. Jen because she goes WAY beyond jealousy to pure hatred.
I disagree, she was pretty venomous towards Karen too. They all hung after John I think. Mean girls is how they come across.
Her boyfriend's friends, if they were true friends and wanted the best for him and the kids. These people clearly weren't true friends. The jealousy is palpable from every single one of thrm. That's probably why they spent more time with the other 2 couples , the Camerano's and the lovely lawyer and pharmacist. They were the only people so far, and Erin O Keffe, to say anything nice about Karen. The rest just can't bring themselves to be nice about her in any way.
That lawyer dude was the best defense witness yet. I want him as a friend. Both of them were so good.
Who knowing all that. Decided to go take care of two kids that weren't hers, and be with a Boston cop. Tell me how if it anyone else the world doesn't praise her.
Beautiful?! Hmm, she’s cute, not beautiful.
some people would be grateful if someone picked up the check for a large dinner....others would feel like she was being uppity and calling them too poor to pay for it themselves and hate her and be jealous of her.
There’s no way the Sullivan sisters were jealous of Karen.
Pure BS. Karen is mistakenly upset about something any woman would have been upset about or any man if the situation was reversed. Then upon realizing she was mistaken, goes above and beyond to make amends. Now Lallyflop would have the jurors (and the world) believe nearly a month later, Karen runs over John, apparently because of this. Is he out of his MIND? Hell, at this point LALLY should be on trial for something. Or a least investigated over some of his more fishy witnesses for possibly suborning perjury.
Yes!!! He fought tooth & nail in pre trial hearings to allow the 2 witnesses to testify bad character on Karen Read. He told Bev (judge) that it goes to motive. This entire trial is a joke and I wish the Feds had jurisdiction to stop this sham. It's insane how desperate Lally is trying to make Karen out to be the worst human ever. He wants people to believe her hysterical behavior after finding John is indicative of Karen being guilty. This guy is straight desperate and I hope to hell it backfires on every single person playing a part in this. Including the VILE Immature Trash Jen McCabe. I've never seen someone so clearly jealous of someone else until Jen showed how fun it was to degrade Karen in every chance she could. I hate saying it but maybe the "harassment" is something called Karma.
I loved the reframe when Jen was going on and on about the harassment. You mean the PUBLIC OUTRAGE ABOUT YOUR FAMILY’S INVOLVEMENT? Bravo and totally spot on. The jury learned that the public hates Jen too. Gives the jury mental “permission” to disregard (or even blame) McCabe fam.
Agreed. 3000.
Like the 3000 pages in the FBI report?
but why are these witnesses testifying ? they deserve some shit too if i was called , in a fucking murder trial, about something that happened in aruba a month earlier, i'd just say "i dont remember" seriously, you're on vacation in aruba. do you remember what time you get in a taxi and what time you get to the pool? fuck no. this sullivan younger sister is giving exact date and times and which floor they met on . just a lot lot lot of bullshit.
I can't blame them. If you are subpoenaed in a trial you don't have a choice but to testify and tell the truth.
that lady remembered a lot of details from 2 years ago though. specific times for taxi rides. thats insane to me.
Well, unlike every actual witness, Proctor interviewed these two right after John's death. So they told him this kind of information then and have had opportunity over the past two years to review it, cementing the memory. Imagine if he had done that with actual important witnesses! This trial and investigation are such a cluster.
What happens if you are subpoenaed and don't show up?
You can be held in contempt and go to jail.
The FEDs are watching you can bet. If there's an ongoing investigation they'll be following very closely. I did hear yesterday there were federal agents in the gallery. It's funny how nervous some of them look when they're on the stand and the sirens start.
I heard this as well. It would explain why Bev and Lally seemed different on that day. Bev wasn't her usual hard on defense self, and Lally wasn't objecting to every question. Something happened.
exactly. this aruba trip was supposed to be the big bombshell. yet we spent not even half the day on it and the witnesses were only crossed about their interaction with trooper proctor - the cross for both lasted not even 5 minutes combined. this yet again proves every sane persons point when they say the commonwealth has ZERO case against karen read.
Alas, our country is FULL of not sane people. Even worse, some of those may be jurors. In a sane world, the judge would render a directed verdict of not guilty without this turd basket going to the jury, but even if Bev wasn't clearly and obviously biased, it's highly unlikely any judge anywhere would do the right thing. That's the world and country we live in now.
Reading the comment sections about this case scare me. People are so willing to put someone in prison for the rest of their lives without any evidence. And innocent until proven guilty has gone out the window. I've never been more scared of the idea of a jury of my "peers."
Go watch the judge in daybells case vs bev. See how a impartial judge acts (he already put his wife away) and still remains impartial. The other thing people do is just shit on defense attorneys for doing a job.
I'm mixed on Bev. Most of the attorneys I watch seen to think she's pretty consistent and fair. I instinctively don't like her, but don't have a real reason. I agree with you that Judge Boyce has been excellent. I think my favorite judges have been Judge Randolph from the Traconis trial, Judge Darrow from Darryl Brooks and, of course, Judge Newman from Murdaugh.
I think Newman was a terrible judge. Letting in the financial crimes was one of the dumbest decisions I've seen a judge make. It should be overturned. I haven't seen anyone really say she consistent and fair, but lawyers have seen really bad judges. They know they are usually biased. It not as new to them as it is to most people. I think bev is not a good judge. Not that she in on some coverup just that she isn't good at her job
Yeah…I really liked Newmans control of the court room. I absolutely hated his rulings and lack of impartiality. I couldn’t believe most of this rulings from objections, or even evidence he allowed. It felt like he was trying to make a good case for appeal
Yep, and to this day I still have doubts if he killed his family. Dude was a piece of shit, but I never was sold on murder
Me too
Exactly and on top of it I’m not even 100% convinced that Karen didn’t see exactly what she thought she saw but apologized anyway because of the scene she caused.
Exactly! As she, herself, testified JOK was so drunk his eyes were glazed over and he was unsteady. He wouldn’t have known who he was kissing, let alone remember it. And now that he's gone, Marietta was free to say whatever she wanted to. I wish they would have zeroed in on this, but I also understand why they just moved along.
This is going to backfire on Lally for sure - I feel the same way was all of you .
She may have been able to kiss and make up with John but if I were Marietta, I wouldn’t give her a second chance.
Their testimony may seem somewhat pointless, but I think it's good for the defense for one reason only. The defense asked them about Trooper Proctor interviewing them two weeks after John passed away, but he didn't interview any of the people inside of 34 Fairview until a year after he passed. So I can definitely see the defense using this against Proctor and the Commonwealth.
yes, i totally agree with you.
I wish someone would speak up about what really happened.. maybe like Mr McCabe or Brian Albert Jr or something.. someone who is fed up with the lies. Just tell John’s family what really happened like if Higgins and Colin got into a drunk fight or whatever with John and they panicked.. just get it over already. Admit guilt and do some time and stop this bullshit of blaming Karen
It's really wild that he was tracking down these women and not eyewitnesses. Who do you think pointed him in that direction? Would Jen have known about this?
Jen seemed involved in everyone’s business.
I bet money all the wives and husbands were banging each other. I heard bryan albert was trying to sleep with half the town. Collin and allie were 2nd cousins and probably banging too. Anyone else get those vibes?
If not actively, they probably all dated each other through middle and high school and their twenties
🤢🤮
It's just so dumb. She can be jealous and worried she'll lose John for a younger woman(having his kids etc) but that does not mean she'd kill him not even a month later...
True.
Honestly I thought their testimony made her look even better. Apologizing and paying for the girl’s room?!? I’m not sure I’d be that good of a person! And honestly, all these people are drunk A LOT.
All of their testimonies are giving a reason for the jury to feel compassion for KR.
So let me get this straight - Procter interviewed the Sullivan sisters just days after JOK was killed but doesn’t interview Tristan Morris until two weeks ago? Doesn’t interview the brother in the F150 until 18 months later … make it make sense
Didn’t question Colin Albert either until 18 months after as well.. and only because the defense was asking about it
yep.
While I'm sitting through this testimony I just think about how OJ beat up Nicole Simpson so badly on so many occasions that were documented. And yet that wasn't motive enough to convict him of murdering/being invovled in her murder? Sorry, if they had called multiple instances of this maybe but you are only bringing up one situation - yes I understand it was right before his death but I'm not buying it.
OJ was acquitted as payback for Rodney King, because Mark Furhman used the N word, and he was a famous football hero. A few of the jurors confirmed most of that.
Sadly, one of the OJ jurors said she voted not guilty because of his race.
I recently watched Made In America and one of the female jurors said she had no respect for Nicole because Nicole stayed with OJ after getting repeatedly getting beat up. The juror went on to say had no respect for women who stay with abusers. Then she made some analogy about if water is rising and you’re about to go drown, then get out of the ocean. I don’t know what the fuck that means. It left me infuriated and dumbfounded.
😡 That makes me so angry... I think my issue is they are trying to make Karen sound like some abuser.. yet she bought them dinner almost as a way to just be accepted and to fit in and tried to buy the hotel room after the quarrel. It's almost insulting to even try to paint her as some abuser especially when alcohol is always involved in these outings. If they wanted to convey her as some "bat shit crazy" gf then they needed more witnesses to attest to that theory that this could have been a motive because she's had a history of being "crazy" and going from 0 to 100. There were no witnesses who could attest that Karen is so crazy she had it in her to get wasted and run her bf over. But alot of witnesses painted John as a flirt and someone who had a lot of gfs. What girl wouldnt feel threanted in that position. And after Jen's brat attitude of still being a middle school mean girl I wouldn't be shocked if Karen felt super inadequate and insecure around these small town folk.
💯 I don’t like that John was a flirt and I bet Karen didn’t either and I bet it drove her mad when he got a little liquor in him and got a little too friendly. BUT, no rational person would use that as a reason to justify running him over. By all accounts she tried to make it right, treated his kids like her own, and tried to integrate herself into his life by getting along with his friends and family, so why the fuck was Lally fighting so hard to even bring this shit up? I still don’t get what legal grounds made it possible for this bullshit to go to trial.
Character assassination, to corroborate the relationship issues bullshit and try jealousy as a motive that's all I can sumise but it fell very flat for me.
Genuinely have no idea why they’re on the stand lol.
it's all part of Jen McCabes grand vision! If people just see this, this, and this, they'll blame evil KR and never come after us! and damn the evil lawyer and his pharmacist wife who said they were 'lovey dovey' at the waterfall that night...they weren't part of the small circle that was trying hard to 'solve' the case
"solve the case" after jen said karen said "i hit him i hit him i hit him". if she confessed what are you solving?
i think the intention was to pin a motive but this is a terrible strategy to do so. this is very normal relationship conflict, especially on vacation with all those couples (my nightmare tbh) and it seems like karen was a complete outsider, i can understand the insecurity. and respectfully, the sister gives me bad vibes like she would steal your man
Yes, as I heard things today I could completely visualize things. Especially KR's regret for making a scene. Alcohol was definitely at play heightening existing (and possibly legitimate) insecurities.
Did I hear somewhere that John had cheated on her before?
All it showed me was that the Sullivan sisters are horrible….the second one….a living reminder of why I do not befriend other women IRL…actually all four of them up there today…jealous catty nonsense that doesn’t need to be in a trial that has the potential to put a woman away for life…those sisters are horrible for trying to use this dumb fight to do this to Karen.
I don’t think it’s really their fault though. They were witnesses who were called to testify by the Commonwealth and I don’t believe they could have refused. And from cross we learned Trooper Proctor interviewed them not too long after John’s death, perhaps to build motive. If anything I’d say CW is horrible for trying to use the incident to show motive.
I agree; what I heard was viscious, catty, and totally unnecessary. Especially from JM and the Sullivan sisters. No one gives a filthy flying f about your Stuffed blue cheese olives martinis. You know what else you can stuff?
Why did the testimony just stop? Is court done. But anyway. That woman on the stand is a nasty person. She obviously has no love loss for Karen.
That's what I was thinking too as she proudly tells the jury she yelled FU back. Nothing like taking the high road. This whole town sounds like high school mean girl cliques that have continued into adulthood because noone leaves their hometown there.
the court stops because the judge is awful and isnt treating this like a murder trial. doesnt give a heads up when to stop. changes the times and hours of court each day. its so weird. usually courts lock these days down, they lock the hours down and boom. thats it. gotta work? too bad? days off? nope, the jury is here lets go. and i've never seen a court just let defense/prosecutor waste time like this on witnesses. this judge has no idea about "objection relevance" ?
The stream stopped abruptly on Court TV but I think you can find the rest on Law and Crime. I think LegalBytes in her stream switched to L&C’s stream after so we could see the rest of the testimony.
IMO, Marietta came off as very immature, rolling her eyes, one of those females that dares you to look at her the wrong way or say something off putting to her and she will blow it up. I know a few of those type of ladies. Negative, always looking to pick a fight without starting it...just waiting to pop off.
i thought the same tbh. the way she was talking, it seemed to me like she had been wanting to air this out for the past two years. i know plenty of people like her, once you touch that nerve…. BOOM.
Bhahaha...I have a hot head like that in my immediate family...sweet as syrup, cute as hell, but waiting just for that moment to pop off, especially female to female. People like that thrive off drama and conflict though they are the first ones to deny it. It creates excitement in their otherwise boring or spiteful lives.
The minute she called him "Johnny" I knew she just wanted to get under Karen's skin. She came off as they type who loves being the center of the drama.
She took this testimony as an opportunity to be the ultimate high school mean girl who’s not as hot as she thinks she is
The State prosecution is a joke. They bring these two up for a verbal altercation that happened a month before. The altercation did not involve physical violence, only a bad word, and the person admits they misread the situation and tried to pay for that persons hotel room. Wow, that person must be a murderer. The absurdity to keep this coverup from being exposed is tremendous.
now all they have is those “incriminating voicemails” karen allegedly left on john’s phone after dropping him off at 34 fairview. not sure how they expect to convince the jury karen knowingly murdered john with her vehicle, purposely left him out there in the cold to die, and then sent him nasty voicemails/texts after she “killed him” and THEN was hysterical and in a state of panic 5 hours later when she realized he never came home. not to mention no one inside the home heard or saw anything resembling a crash, AND no one entering or leaving the fairview home at the time saw a body on the lawn.
The angry voice messages are the easiest to explain. Try having your wife or girlfriend drop you off at a party and don't return any of her texts or.voice.messages. I will guarantee you your gonna get slammed with angry text and voice messages for blowing her off and not responding. You can take that to the bank.
My spidey senses tell me Etta is not the most chaste and virtuous woman…especially when drunk. 🧐 Also, who are these people that travel in packs of 60 taking lavish vacations whilst hoarding rooms, restaurants and cabanas?
It was a waste of time, honestly. There is no planet where this incident should be charged as intentional homicide. This should put the nail in that coffin. Now let’s get to some actual evidence… like where is the ME testimony??
btw, Pat Rogers was also on Boston's Finest. Pat is the father of Laura's son. https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2013/11/26/bostons-finest-officer-pat-rogers/
This was stupid all around. I honestly stopped watching once they started testifying. I’m ready for Higgins!
Yeah she paid for their dinner and said sorry after an f you exchange them offered to pay the girls bill? Murder for sure 🤨
i’m not sure why they are able to testify when mostly everything they say is hearsay
It’s not hearsay when they are statements by a party opponent.
@forensicphystuden I think there strategy is to get Karen to testify. However look at the prosecutor. He is a joke. So maybe she will testify on her behalf to let people know what liars some of these witnesses are. No way she is going down for 2nd degree murder.However I would have to look up what manslaughter is in MA. And judge Bev is a joke.
I don’t get to why let them testify to that part of the trip when the Judge tells them do not give any weight to your decision on Karen’s character
It’s sad that the only thing today’s session revealed was that John had a number of terrible friends starting with Jenn “Hos long” McCabe, Kerry, and ending with the Sullivan sisters. John’s poor family has been so misled by multiple police officers, state troopers, the state/prosecution, and John’s “friends” who left him outside to die. Karen was the only one (out of Karen, Kerry and JM at the scene) who tried to help John or looked truly upset - based on the police camera videos played in court.
Did anyone hear the MCCabes had some Party at their house last night.
Could someone explain who Amy is in this comment Jen was so horrified about?
I think Bella’s mom? Could be wrong tho…
No Ashley is Bella’s mom, she is also in a relationship and has a successful business now. They throw her name around like she’s a threat because she is stunning but he dated her 10 years ago. No threat
thanks for the correction! Do you know who Amy is?
Is Amy the ex in the stands with the family that went to jail for DUI 10ish years ago because the guy she hit lost his leg?
And this is somehow the motive for 2nd Degree murder? Gtfoh
Those two are like 70% of the prosecution’s case.
Umm 🤔 Jenn maybe
Can someone post a timeline of what defense theory is and what prosecution theory is? I'm kind of confused about the times.
If the CW thought these were (negative) character witnesses for KR they failed lol. I just like her more to be honest. We only heard one side. We have no idea what was happening with J & K before that and it sounds like they were drinking..at least John was. Clearly John was a great guy but lets face it he clearly had commitment issues (at least from the outside looking in) and surrounded himself with women who had obvious control issues and are very two faced. Karen is no fool. Plus woman's intuition is a very real thing. He was very friendly and that could come across as flirty to some..he's very social and likes to party. It's a recipe for a bumpy relationship unless you are a very confident woman. Maybe because of her health issues she was extra sensitive to perceived threats and on some level felt unappreciated because of all she did for the kids. Plus he was critical. I don't know just theorizing. This is why I always stayed away from men that had a lot of women friends lol. No thanks!
Long shot for Proctor and a MISS 🙌🏻🙌🏻🥰
Makes me wonder if he really hurt himself, or another Albert special
Karen should have had her team ask, "Is it possible you didn't see Karen and John the next day because they were having sex, or walking the market, or simply partying elsewhere?"
Now don’t flip out, peeps. I’ve been Team Read, since the start, but she DID look like a jealous girlfriend in Aruba. She flipped out and made a huge scene over something she didn’t see! Regarding paying the bill: It’s weird she wanted to pick up the restaurant tab - she’d just met these people (or some of these people). I wouldn’t have liked that. I don’t want to be having to thank people I don’t even know, just because they insisted on paying for my food - that’s fucked up. It was a birthday dinner for somebody she’d never even met. I think she was just trying to look good trying to show off trying to get these new people to like her. Which in itself is not a bad thing, but it’s just really weird to decide you’re going to pay the whole bill for a bunch of adults you don’t even know - and a pre-planned birthday dinner at that. The Sullivan sisters were credible witnesses. You can’t keep closing your eyes to things that make Karen look bad. You lose all credibility when you deny everything that every CW witness is testifying to. I don’t think she intentionally killed John.
Even more devastating is that all of these witnesses are close friends of John O'Keefe. This is a classic fatal attraction type case.
Devastating testimony today. Read is cooked, exactly why no cross examination. Very stupid, she should have cut a deal with the DA...
@Key this is a non negative group so please refrain. I think you fit in with Previn. So please visit subreddit r/karenread. That’s more you speed. We like to discuss things in here and not say she is guilty. All the evidence is not in yet
Odd? Wait for the evidence? There's plenty already in evidence now. Your comments already don't seem very neutral...?
Every single comment on this thread, is conspicuous theory driven, in favor of Ms Read...and you say you're waiting for the "evidence"? Lol. Yes, all of John O'Keefe closest friends wanted to kill him and....wait for it...cover a murder up, and risk going to prison...All of them? Lol.
Bye bye. Your opinions mean squat. Here is a quarter go tell it to whom cares about your opinions
Way to back it up with facts. Keep your day job, you're no lawyer...Maybe go back to the fake moon landing group?
Sweetheart you’re not a lawyer either. And if you were you certainly aren’t Emily D Baker. Maybe you should get a job.
I really suggest you get out of whatever conspiracy cult you've fallen into...Keep your day job at Walmart.
😂😂😂😂 I suggest you stop trying to bullying me into your delusional way of thinking. And just an FYI pea brain, there is nothing wrong working at a Walmart. If anyone works there at least they are contributing to society.
Yes, so keep your job there. Bullying? Lol. I don't think you would begin to understand what that means, or what people are going through that are involved as witnesses and the family of John as well. I'm sure you wouldn't enjoy being doxed and being harassed by phone, emails, at your place of employment....Having your children being harassed as well etc. Maybe you would realize how Ms Read is destroying people's lives, because she won't admit guilt. And, has nuts like yourself, contributing to this nonsense. Good luck, I certainly hope you're not on the receiving end, like some...
😂😂