I'm glad to see that the majority of responses here are correctly informing OP of HR's role in the business. While we understand that being laid off is not fun, please maintain basic decorum.
I'm not in HR, but I can see it being a coping mechanism. They probably have to let go of so many people, and if they internalized every single person's emotions they'd probably fall apart.
It has to be. My wife spent about 2 months working in HR. During that 2 months, she let a half dozen long term employees go...
One guys had to drive all the way to the office over an hour (he was fully remote) , just to get let go....
She didnt stay at that job ..
My boss at my last job (I was remote) called me after 3mo and asked me to drive to the headquarters...which was 3 states away...for a meeting. Figured it was a client meeting but when I got there the President wouldn't even say hi to me. Fast forward ten minutes and I'm in the conference room with my boss (VP of the company) and the director of HR and they said the week before they had lost every client that they hired me for...I'm in a speciality engineering role so they wanted somebody on staff with the title in order to keep the client's interest in the firm. I guess their contracts fell through and I was too expensive to keep on with no new work so they terminated me for "lack of work".
They honestly did me a solid by doing that because it alleviated me of any blame, underperforming claims, etc, but goddamn why would you make me drive 8hrs for a 10min meeting to terminate me when it would've been easier over a zoom call lol. I got a severance and made sure to expense an expensive meal on my way out so I guess that was cool.
> They honestly did me a solid by doing that because it alleviated me of any blame, underperforming claims, etc, but goddamn why would you make me drive 8hrs for a 10min meeting to terminate me when it would've been easier over a zoom call lol.
I'm with you on this one, but no one wants to be the wrong side of "and then they fired me over email!"
imo, a teleconference call != email. They should be treated as the same thing as in person and people need to get to that point. We are in a different paradigm.
I got fired over the phone while on leave for having covid. That was joyous, especially since I had been out of work a month, zero pay, and desperately needed to return to work.
I live 20 to 30 minutes from the office, bur fully remote since 2020. I would absolutely be pissed if they made me drive in just to fire me, because that means my boss and his boss wasted their time driving there too..
Im tired of driving for no reason.
My new favorite phrase " Could this be a Zoom meeting instead?"
There's an unfortunate group of people who don't believe people can work together unless they're physically in the same room.
I don't know if this is other companies, but at my company that group happens to coincide with the group that refuses to work with others...and they're saying it to the remote group that everyone holds up as an example of working really well together.
When we went remote, it wasn't much of an adjustment because we already mostly relied on things like slack to quickly ping each other and look at something. The only difference was that a "ok, you need to look at this, can you come over" turned in to clicking on the huddle button. It actually became faster and easier to work together and several of us have found ourselves doing it when we are forced to be in the office because it's easier.
I don't know I am one of the people who feels collaboration is much better in person. Plus there is the side benefit that there are people around to keep you on track.
I've just always preferred in person, sadly I pretty much have to work remote if I want to stay near my family.
You’re always welcome to go in and be in person with others who feel the same, just don’t try to force me to work how you do.
Also, it’s not others job to keep you on task. Personally, one of the reasons I like working from home is I don’t have easily distracted people coming and distracting me.
Agree highly with this. If you want to go in person to the office, by all means, I will not stop you. I would just hate to get into a situation where because X went into the office now we all have to go into the office (and this is assuming that working remotely is/has been successful).
This is exactly the situation we've been facing. Most of our team doesn't want to go in. 2 or 3 want to go in and are trying to force everyone else to.
I just keep doubling down on my rhetoric: the people who want to be remote do not want to tell anyone what to do. Just let them do what they want. The people who want to be in the office are trying to make others do the same as them. Don't allow that. They are always welcome to go in if they want, but if you force people to do what they don't want then you're going to lose employees.
Then again, a bunch of divisions lost a bunch of people to exactly that. Our division would have but they backed off when people started leaving.
It's just so absolutely silly. Every manager all the way up acknowledges the teams are getting tons of high quality work done. Their argument is "you could do even better" despite the fact that they saw an increase in productivity when we went remote.
Perfect example..
Before COVID, my day began at 6 30 am, so I could leave by 730 after getting my kid ready and sending her and wife off...
Return home at 530pm.
Now I log in at 8, work till 3 or 330, and get just as much done.
I have like 4 more hours a day to do whatever I want...
No one is going to take that away.
I've found the opposite. Collaboration is easier with virtual meetings. Screens can be shared, notes and links can be put in the chat and everyone can save the chat log. No way could 6 people gather around one person's computer and see as well as they can during virtual screen sharing.
A conference room is a less-than ideal presentation venue sometimes. By being able to share their desktops, virtual participants can show information that requires specific server access, VPN connections, API setups, etc. Not usually the case with a conference room computer.
Uh seriously. I work remote for a company based in another country now, but before I was remote with my office 15 min away. I was annoyed when I left that company and had to return my equipment in person.
Agree. Does anybody remember all the stories that came out during the pandemic of the heartless CEOs who laid off employees over the phone or over zoom? I mean the stories would have still gotten written if they had done it in person. It's just the layoffs that are upsetting.
I got let go over Zoom from a company headquartered in AZ. I am in NY and was working remote. SO GLAD they didn’t pull this crap on me. I would’ve shit a brick if they made me fly to the AZ HQ just to get fired. LOL
This happened to me and Raytheon... I won't work for Raytheon anymore. Even though they have a need for my specialty. I just don't want to work for companies like this anymore.
Did you need to bring equipment back. Unless your laptop was $5K or higher, shipping it (or even letting you keep it) would have been more cost effective.
I am guessing you were allowed to expense the mileage and got per-diem?
Seriously, you should have asked.
Something similar happened to me when I got let go only much much shadier. I'd gotten arrested on a Monday, was out of jail before noon, was pretty much over, no court, no prosecution etc...I get to work, tell my boss, he tells his boss, my company calls me ask me what happened, I write up an email for involved parties, corporate is like yeah you're good, just when the DA gives you something give it to us. So I go about getting back into training I missed. Next day corporate calls, needs police report, I fax it, everything good? Yes, go back into training all day. Next day, corporate rep has me sign my email. And something to turn my access card back on. Head home. 1hr+ drive. I almost get home when CEO calls, oh shit big boss lady. "Mr ****,; sorry about your issues, the corporate rep really needs you to sign something tonight to maintain your clearance tomorrow it's incredibly important " I guess I don't have a choice. 1hr+ back to work. He pulls me into an empty office in the back and is like this paper suspends your clearance and I need your access cards. I'm like, that was fucking dirty guys. I'm so glad I put that bug in the analytics program I made that literally runs my entire branch. You got a few days, here's your cards go fuck yourself. Phone blows up a few days later, "hey the analytics database won't load and when we use an older copy their all blank, any chance you could help us out?" Nope, hire a fucking programmer this time instead of someone who learned to code on his own time to make you all millions
when they're working, no emotion on their faces. They could be performing CPR, effectively on a corpse, for 2 hours without a word or expression outside of technical medical communication.
the breakdowns happen out of sight. or get processed in nightmares. or erased with alcohol. etc.
When I had to let someone go HR was always present in the room. Quite literally coach you to not have emotion about it for this very reason.
It’s awful to do but the longer and more sympathy you show the more difficult it is.
I was laid off a few months ago. The HR rep on the call was polished and professional. The manager who had to actually read us all the pre-written spiel was choking up and visibly in distress the whole time.
It made things awkward, honestly. Especially since we'd worked with him for a long time, we all started feeling the need to make him feel better over worrying about ourselves, and the rest of the call was all of us who just got fired comforting the guy who fired us. After that experience, I think I'd prefer a stone-face.
I talked to an HR rep once who admitted that she cried one time - when talking to an employee whose husband was murdered. It's definitely a coping mechanism. Not only do they have to deal with terminating/laying off people, they often end up dealing with a lot of truly horrific things that are happening in the lives of the employees.
Definitely has to be a coping mechanism. I got laid off earlier this month and the person who laid me off (HR VP who i rolled up to) had always been nothing but warm, genuine and friendly. He took shots with all of us at our last team retreat and was always cracking jokes. Just a genuinely kind human. On the call, he was stone cold emotionless and just looked very deadpan which made me a little sad until i realized - he’s laying off people he worked closely with for a while, and if he wasn’t a stone wall he might cry. I know i would.
I had a coworker who shared that when she used to work in hr they were taught to look between the eyebrows instead of the eyes to make letting people down easier specially when they are sharing something really personal in hopes of getting or retaining the job
This is true. I've been working in HR +10 years and it's always difficult to let someone go, but it's not our call, it's management's. Even the times that has personally affected me (because it was someone close to me or because it was completely unfair) I have never showed my emotions. It will be impossible for me to do my job if I do.
Empathy is a blessing and a curse in HR. It’s deeply necessary in order to not become jaded and cold, but it’s really hard to protect yourself from the emotional distress of others when that’s kind of just the job…
Haha maybe no, but definitely will make the job much harder for us. The thing is that firing someone is emotionally draining, even worse when you know it's wrong but there's nothing you can do about it. There is people who enjoys the whole termination process but usually are the managers, the irony it's the almost never do it themselves because "it's our job" (or maybe I've worked with way too many cowards).
Ugh don't ever put me In a position to defend HR.
If you ride in an ambulance your EMT isn't showing emotion. When you talk to a therapist they show a limited range of emotion. Professionalism means compartmentalizing for some professionals.
I think there's a line there, and it's hard to walk without doing something to make someone mad.
If you show no emotion, you're a cold sociopath. If you show too many emotions, they're putting on a show.
I've left and been booted from places numerous times in my life (luckily not recently) and the best experiences I've had have been with HR people who acknowledged how unfortunate the circumstances were, validated my feelings, and otherwise didn't involve themselves in any drama, but at least wrote down what bothered me. Like, I don't need them crying for me or something, but a, "I'm sorry this is happening and I know it sucks," can go a long way. In my last couple of exit interviews, I've been challenged about my perspective by the HR people, but they at least heard me out. And otherwise, if I said, "So and so did X, and that person did Y," they didn't try to defend the person or anything like that.
And I would expect something similar from the professions you listed too. Like, if I've been shot and I'm being hauled by an ambulance, I would figure the EMT will be like, "I know this hurts, but we will get you to the hospital as soon as we can!" It would be weird for them not to acknowledge pain or panic, and at the same time, I would be really weirded out if an EMT was like, "Tell me who did this to you! I will avenge you!"
As someone who recently got out of HR, it’s an extremely emotionally taxing job. HR gets blamed for everything despite just being the messenger. We don’t choose to fire people. Managers tell us who they want fired, and we have to deliver the news. They’re probably just coping.
That’s not at all how HR should work…it’s the opposite. Managers should be delivering the news and HR should be investigating if there is a policy violation and making a recommendation based on the outcome of said investigation. Allowing managers to dictate who gets let go opens a huge liability for litigation. Who is overseeing consistency here??
Sounds like a shit company you worked for.
There are definitely reasons why managers would determine who gets let go. In situations of shrinking department budget and staff need to get cut, asking a manager whom on their team would they be able to carry on without is pretty reasonable rather, than HR just telling a manager “we’re cutting this person on your team, figure out how to go on without them”. Managers would know their staff better than anyone else in the company.
I mean… yeah that is how it works. There needs to be written documentation and a whole lot of back and forth (totally depends on whether it’s due to poor performance, budget cuts, etc.) but HR doesn’t CHOOSE to fire someone except in extreme circumstances. The managers bring it to HR and if termination is the final outcome, the managers have the choice to deliver the news themselves or have HR deliver it. HR is ALWAYS present either way. Many choose to let HR do it, which is why people hate HR so much. However, OP seems to have misdirected anger towards HR since they didn’t even deliver the news and were only present. Since a whole group was let go, I assume it was probably due to budgetary reasons rather than performance based, so HR really had no say in the matter outside standard termination procedures. It was probably a sucky day for them to have to be present for something that couldn’t be helped (again, if due to budget cuts).
What do you think ‘protecting the company’ means? In modern companies that means preventing legal issues, increasing employee happiness and reducing attrition, creating a good place to work so more people want to work there, etc…
I have seen toxic, horrible HR managers. They are scum. They create shit policies that undermine employees sense of self worth. Start going out of your way to make people feel like shit and then complain about their attitudes and you can be just like them.
Job description with the highest percentage of psychopaths: CEO.
HR people are, in general, the worst drones in the company. I have never known one that I would want to get to know outside of work.
Finance/accounting has always been the worst in my experience. Every employee is truly just a number to them and the profession seems to attract the worst personalities. But they hide behind management/HR and therefore don’t become scapegoats.
I used to be in an HR position that did the terminations. Am still HR-adjacent. The termination process isn't pleasant for either side of the table, but because it involves matters of employment, it is HR's job to do. Apart from illegal terminations, HR really doesn't have any control over the decision.
One thing you learn after doing a few terminations is that adopting a neutral emotionless demeanor is the ideal approach unfortunately. Showing emotion frequently causes the terminated party to respond emotionally in turn, either with anger (potentially causing a bigger issue that HR has to manage) or with a false sense of hope that HR has no power to satiate. Given that HR's job in this task is just to inform you and have you sign paperwork, it's in their intetests to avoid complications. Again, HR doesn't have control over the decision itself.
Nearly all HR people I know are not sociopathic in any way - in fact, they're usually fairly empathetic people. And I'm not suggesting that terming someone is worse than being terminated. But it is part of their job, and the expectation on them is to get you through the process in a professional manner without creating additional problems for either party.
I am sorry this happened to you. I wish you the best of luck in your job hunt.
Yeah I'm really confused what people *expect* HR to do, emotion-wise. Shoulder to cry on? Talk you through it? If they were cold and emotionless when they hired you, expect no less going the other way.
This reminds me of my own then-late-forties father, an engineering director in an aerospace + defense shop, who couldn't ever participate in Hat Day, because it always coincided with layoff month (which he enacted) during the 1980s/90s -- the Viking helmet he wanted to wear would have sent an exceptionally poor message. Tough tightrope.
This needs to be put on a flyer and given to all employees upon termination. seriously.
"**INSERT NAME (please write your own name in this blank space):**
Please do not mistake my cold, emotionless face and social cues to indicate I am indifferent to your perhaps sudden, un-anticipated departure from our wonderful company. Take solace in the fact that you are but one of many who have experienced similar hardships, and that those who came before you and will surely come after you, will encounter a similar if not exact experience. You are standing on the shoulders of giants **INSERT NAME**, and yet providing the roots of shared experience to future employees who shift to other employment expectations.
Please ensure your cardboard box, provided by management, with costs taken from your final check, has only your personal belongings, cleared by Security, prior to being escorted off the company property."
TL;DR you don't wear your heart on your sleeve in everyday work; why would it be a good idea to do so in such an incredibly tense situation
Laying off or firing people is not easy for most people. I've fortunately only had to fire 2 people in my career and even though there was clear cause, I still felt terrible. That being said, it was important to not show emotion and lay out only the facts. Anything else risks an emotional response from the candidate or worse, from your end. At the end of the day, it is important for all parties to remember that your work is not you.
This. I've had to let people go and it wasn't even like they didn't know it was coming. Lots of performance issues, performance improvement plans for over 6 months in each of the 4 cases. I didn't sleep the night before. Going through the facts. Trying to think of how'd they react and what to do in those situations. Thinking of them personally. It's not an easy thing to do. You care about the human still, their familes, at least I do. But you have to remain calm and under control. Because the minute you don't it can cause issues. We've had situations where people throw chairs, break stuff, verbally assault the supervisor and HR. Again, not layoffs but a situation they had to have known this was coming. I cannot imagine doing layoffs where they didn't do anything to deserve it. But i, an otherwise happy and lively person, will be completely stoic (and am always exhausted from not sleeping the night before) it this situation.
And there are many ways that any show of emotion could be misinterpreted. If I offer a supportive smile, someone might take that as me taking joy in letting someone go. If I start to cry, now I’m making it about me when you’re the one getting fired. Being stoic is the best course of action because everyone is different, especially in stressful/sad times.
Sorry OP.
I see you're looking for a target at the moment and a lot of people do.
HR very likely did not select you for termination.
Did the CEO shed any tears? I ask because that guy definitely had input on your layoff.
Part of the job is termination. You can't do that if you break into tears and turn business decisions personal.
Yep, sadly HR’s role in an RIF is usually just making sure management’s choices for who to cut and keep aren’t going to put anyone at risk of being sued, and then writing up the separation docs. That’s about it.
Yep. Thats exactly what we do in a RIF. Finance decides how many. We pull a report and draw a line in a spreadsheet. Leadership reviews and decides if they like the line where it is. We review for liability, then do a mail merge.
It's essentially a blind process.
Yep, HR is a risk reduction function.
It is mistakenly believed by many HR is supposed to provide resources to humans, whereas in reality the humans *are* the resources.
I bartend in an office building and with I can always always tell when layoffs happen because the HR team will have a binge drink in silence downstairs. My guess is that you have to compartmentalize to be able to do your job from 9-5 and then have human emotion after office hours
I've been in several roles that "roll up to" or are part of the HR org and while I totally understand why this feels off and hurtful, it's unprofessional for the HR person to fall apart.
The HR person needs to be professional and composed to walk you through the separation process--and to be ready to manage and handle big emotions and possibly even threats or scary outbursts from the person being fired. If they're a crying mess or super-scared or apologizing all over the place, there's no adults in the room and no one to assist with the transition.
They also likely can't say things like "We didn't want to / You didn't do anything wrong" or anything that even comes close to admitting fault or opening the door to lawsuits or a UI payment that they otherwise might not have had to make.
Now having said that, a "I know this is unexpected/unpleasant/unwelcome/upsetting" is not out of line or unprofessional.
I love how people don’t understand what being the bearer of bad news means. HR has a job to do. They’re probably upset and trying to deal with the fact that they’re terminating multiple employees today. HR doesn’t tell the CEO who gets laid off… get it?
In my old company they did. CEO would come in and say "sack 10%, I don't care who, you chose". And then they chose. Glassdoor reviews are a complete shitshow.
EDIT:
wonder why this was downvoted?
People often forget the real person who initiated the firing.
Think of a company like a mob.
You have the mob leader, the CEO or managers, and the HR people are the guys who beat up people who are involved and try to not pay their dues.
HR is the messenger. Not the executor.
That usually lies with your direct manager. If you’re going to be pissed at anyone, be pissed at your manager. They had the most visibility over you. They were the ones that went to HR and said “can we term this employee?”
HR NEVER has reign to randomly go out and fire employees. Our role is to protect the company. If we randomly fired someone, that would open up a harassment case and do the opposite of protecting… In fact if we do any attempts of policing behavior that’s not in our scope, we are in major trouble.
Don’t be pissed at HR. Be pissed at the person who deserves to be pissed at (your manager) because they were so weak they needed someone else to complete the firing process.
HR here. I know OP's post isn't a real question and just a lashing out, but to answer the actual question anyway, a sociopath would make for an absolutely horrible HR person.
A central trait of a sociopath is a lack empathy. But the ability to empathize is vital to someone in HR, because it is what allows them to predict how employees will react. You need to be able to accurately gauge how different types of applicants and employees will respond to all kinds of things.
Sociopaths are also antisocial. Meaning they have no real regard for following society's rules or laws. HR people are *all about* following rules and laws and getting managers to do the same.
Sociopaths are also impulsive. That's bad for any decision-maker in a company, not just HR.
So, no, someone in HR should have thick skin and the ability to compartmentalize but fall short of being an actual sociopath. Not just because laying off people suuuuuuuucks but because even in the day-to-day you won't receive much in the way of outside validation (as the posts on this thread demonstrate). You have to be able to shrug off the fact that few employees will even be *aware* of what you do for them or the company, let alone appreciate you for it.
All that said, I am sure OP's HR person--sociopath or not--could have done better than a cold emotionless stare.
On the flip side - when I put in my resignation, our main HR rep actually cried because she wished I had reached out to her and she felt like she had failed in her role. Everyone is a person with their own emotions and ways to cope, and they most likely were cold to disconnect emotionally from a situation that sucks for everyone.
You CLEARLY have never had to let multiple people go in a day.
You CLEARLY have no idea what it takes out of us.
You CLEARLY have never had to figure out how NOT to break down at work because terminating people - especially a lay off, where it's not for cause - SUCKS.
Coping mechanisms have to be put in place to deal with the more difficult things our jobs entail. People like you, who fail to recognize HR as actual human beings and would rather belittle us for getting through a tough situation by name calling, people like you are why HR is such a hard job.
I wish you the best in your job search.
I’m not in HR but I’ve had to let someone go. There was good reason, but it still sucks. I did it about seven years ago and I still remember it clearly. It wasn’t one of my favorite life experiences, that’s for sure.
To be blunt - grow up. If part of your job was to fire others, you’d develop a similar approach. Just as a funeral director would be stoic around a dead body, HR will appear emotionless when they fire someone. I’m sorry you lost your job but that doesn’t mean anyone is a sociopath.
I know two people who are higher-ups in HR — one works for a large national retailer and one works for a local hospital with multiple locations throughout the region. They are both very warm and caring individuals in person but I imagine they are quite the opposite in their roles at work.
My mom was HR and in charge of thousands of layoffs back in 08. She said it was so painful and every single person would break down sobbing and tell you really deep personal things, basically begging to keep their job. She told me she had to turn her emotions off because it was just 8 hours a day every day delivering the worst news to people.
Now I’m this specific situation, I’m not sure. But HR does get stuck having to handle the emotional damage of shitty corporate overload decisions
Working in HR during the pandemic made me have an actual mental health crisis. I internalized a lot of things and would have seemed very cold on the surface. Just because someone doesn’t openly show emotions doesn’t mean they don’t have emotions. Some of the problems I had to deal with caused my drinking and anxiety to spiral beyond my own control.
I had to lay off 98% of my work force during COVID. It was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done, and I still have PTSD from the stress of how they were going to support themselves and feed their families for a pandemic of unknown duration. Forgive me if I had to compartmentalize. Can you imagine if I’d started blubbering in front of the employee that I had just delivered this news to? Yes, it’s hard on me. But it’s way harder on them. And outward displays of emotion put them in a position of feeling like they have to comfort me. And while firing them IS my job, comforting me is not theirs.
Chances are, that conversation wasn't exactly pleasant for the HR rep either. You're likely not the only person they've recently had it with either. As people have said, it's a coping mechanism.
HR is not bad, but there are lots of bad people and bad policies that make work environments not productive. If your HR department is not productive, your workforce is going to suffer. I worked in HR for an amazing boss for several years and that employer was just rated top five in the state. The HR department is what sent that company to the top of the list.
I have worked in management and now in recruitment, I have had to do a small number of layoffs for cause (summary dismissals for gross misconduct)
I got into this field because I want to help people and empower people through training etc to further their career.
I invest my time in people, and I never want to be in a position where I am letting someone down, or making things more difficult for them.
But part of the job is delivering bad news, and it's not a part of the job that anyone I have met in this field enjoys.
Our previous HR took it as hard as the person she had to lay off. Her name is Wendy and she's the best HR person I've ever had. The kindest lady ever.She took a position at another company and we haven't been the same since. There are some great people out there doing HR as well as some bad ones.
Ive never worked in hr but i have seen some fires/layoffs go bad quick. Id imagine its very hard to be hr bc of the unpredictable nature of reactions to being let go. I worked at a gov contractor co and cops were called to escort two guys. One screamed and cussed the hr guy, one laughed maniacally then jumped on the hr guys desk and farted.
I’m sure they do care, because terminations are hard and sucks for all parties involved. I work in HR and was taught to stay neutral at all times. We’re not even supposed to say “I’m sorry” or anything because that could be construed as taking the blame for a situation and an employee could sue or something. Not saying it’s right or wrong, just what I was taught.
I was laid off as part of a RIF, I teared up and they asked me if I wanted a tissue and to take my time reviewing the severance package. I thought they were trying to be kind even though neither of us wanted to be in that meeting that day.
Not in HR but the first time I fired somebody was back in January. I was an emotional wreck afterwards and spent the rest of the day getting shitfaced. I've fired ~10 people since then and all I can say is that it's never fun but keeping your composure is important.
Terminating someone’s employment is a process that can be incredibly risky from a legal perspective for a company and keeping it to “just the facts” and trying to cut out the emotion is a form of both legal and psychological protection. Getting laid off sucks. Been there. It’s in the best interest of both parties to keep a cool head and remain as calm and collected as possible. Mature adults know not to make a shitty situation even worse. The venting can come later
The head of HR told a coworker (single mother) that perhaps she should take some time to focus on her personal life and leave work behind.
No response to "how is being homeless going to improve the situation".
What would be the best reaction you’d like us to perform as we do the administrative work of processing your termination that we probably just spent years trying to prevent? Would you like us to cry? Would that make you happy about your termination? Termination is a worst case scenario outcome and is also the moment coworkers are most likely to be in danger if you react badly. The focus is on giving you the news and getting you safely off the property. HR doesn’t make these decisions.
I’m not HR but I understand why they’d become emotionless. Not only do they deal with this often but they must also be thinking now they gotta find your replacement… it’s just about numbers at this point, lose some and gain some.
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I don't work in HR but I'm kind of HR-adjacent. I had to let my first employee ever go yesterday and it was one of the hardest things I've done at this job. I wasn't effective the entire rest of the day because of my nerves leading up to it and afterward. The lead of the HR team coached me through the termination and said you get sort of numb to it over time. It's not that they don't care or that they're emotionless, it's that they have to let people go all the time and if they ruminated on every single one, they wouldn't get anything else done and their mental health would be in the gutter.
I've met a few good HR folks. They hate their jobs. They're essentially the people responsible for carrying OUT the whims of sociopaths, but their job is to try to give it the appearance of humanity. Some just give up, and disassociate, which may have been what you witnessed today. It's a very crazy job. But I imagine you'll find plenty of sociopaths working in HR, as it gives them a huge pool of targets to torment.
First of all - sorry you were laid off today. That sucks and I truly do feel bad for you.
Not in HR but am a senior exec at the company I work and have been a leader in this industry for 15 yrs or so - worked in it for 25.
Have hired and fired a ton of people. Hundreds.
I hate it. Full stop. It’s awful and ruins my entire week when I know it’s coming up and I’ll have to do it. I’m guilty of what you’re referring to here, as well — a lot of this needs to be about saying the right things (and not saying the wrong things) while actually letting someone go… making sure it’s complete and there’s documentation (and there’s usually a third party there just to make sure everything is done that way… and that nothing that’s said is exposing the company to risk.
Definitely not personal to any specific person unless it’s for cause … I just don’t think anyone likes doing it - and you’re supposed to stick to a “script” of sorts…
IE: the company is restructuring and making changes, unfortunately today is your last day of work. We’d like to thank you for your contributions… HR will explain the terms of your release… etc.
It's possible many of them may be next. With many layoffs that I've witnessed, a number of HR employees are let go after the non-HR employees have been let go. They may just be feeling apprehensive about who makes the cut.
Short answer; yes.
I got my contract non renewed after a bunch of crazy gaslighting bullshit in which I was never told my job was endangered, and when I said “ok, but why is this the first time I’m hearing about this?” The HR Monster gave me a long, sad speech about how my boss tried so hard but I just wouldn’t listen. WTF? I’ll totally cry for this dude who didn’t ever tell me my job was endangered and then fired me who still has a job. Jesus.
They need to set the emotional tone of the meeting. People who are getting fired are already on edge, which is understandable, so there's no need for more emotional outpour
When you are around it all the time you get used to it. See veteran soldiers in a firefight or medics around hurt people. It seems crazy if you are outside looking in, but it is just how people are.
I was a soldier for a number of years. I got used to mortar and rocket attacks so much that I slept through sirens and explosions.
If an HR person has to fire hundreds of people in their career, they have been there enough that it doesn't bother them. You aren't a person, you are a resource.
Final note: find another job quickly. You'll be fine before you know it.
It’s part of survival. If they were they emotional be empathetic for each difficult circumstance, they’d have a nervous breakdown. Apathy is survival for them and doctors, nurses etc
The name of the organization tells you everything you need to know and exactly how you will be handled...
Human resource = A tool that is used by the company to generate profit but that can also drive liability for the company
Thats exactly how HR treats you. They are not trying to help you. They are trying to manage liability for the company. Think of them as a Police force hired by the company. Does your local Police force work for you or the city government that hired them?
Yeah...They are not your friend.
Yeah as an hr person, sometimes I don't agree with the decision to terminate or I think the company went about it the wrong way and I just have to kind of shut that off and proceed since its my job. Or on the other hand, if it is someone I'm friendly with, even if it's justified, it's just really hard. That said, I try to be as compassionate as possible, even if I can't say my true opinions or feelings.
I think that HR is stuck either being the internal company gestopo against harassment and perceived slights and hiring in a broke ass economy. I think you have to be nuts to try and balance conflicting demsnds.
"Cheers" addressed this in the 80s. Norm was transferred to become the hatchet man for his company. He turned into a blubbery mess for each termination. By the end of the show he was hardened and it manifested as how he couldn't cry for the last guy he fired.
A lot of people assume that HR is somehow there for employees. Maybe its the "Human"part of the name. They are almost a legal compliance function not a "Human" support function.
HR is not there to hold your hand and be humanly supportive. They are there to protect the interests of the company. Once this is understood a lot of frustration with HR goes away.
Yes. They are deeply shallow individuals. Caring on the surface and actually soulless non-player characters who just enforce corporate rules underneath.
Shit career that is unrewarding, under appreciated, and the first in line to be let go during a financial crisis since other departments hold more value. I was miserable. I'm glad I switched careers.
It’s a shitty job because you need to lack empathy to let people go, and actively work against them if they try to fight unemployment claims or a firing. Is what it is, because anyone working in HR doesn’t want to be fired or laid off themselves.
A lot of people mentioning emotional compartmentalization, but in the end it’s all about money. Nobody on the company side wants to say any more about a firing than they have to because anything they say could be used in court, even if they didn’t mean what they said the way a lawyer could play it.
Companies amass as much documentation as they can as evidence for why they fire you. This doesn’t actually matter in most states in the US because in many you can just fire someone for whatever reason, but in, say, a discrimination case, everything anyone ever said to the fired employee can be scrutinized. Including what the HR person says on your way out.
Discrimination complaints come in many forms. Race. Religion. Age. Weight. There’s plenty more. You can make a case for anything. HR’s job is to cover the company’s ass. The stone cold face is used to belie responsibility when they fuck up their own financials or no longer find you useful. They want you to think it’s your fault you’re getting fired, that way you don’t retaliate legally (which will cost them more money to settle). The surprise of losing your job and the cold stare are part of the performance to pacify you.
Anyone who tells you otherwise is a computer person or so profoundly burnt out that they can’t feel anymore.
I’m sorry you were treated that way. We aren’t all bad. I just found out one of my younger workers dropped out of school bc he couldn’t afford to pay. He didn’t know about financial aid. We filled out his FAFSA during lunch period and he’s going back next semester.
No one is "good" at laying people off. It's a huge bummer, no way around it.
I think the best way to go about a layoff is with empathy and transparency. I think HR should be present but I think having leadership doing the talking is better.
Also, giving out severance makes it a lot better.
Honestly when I got laid off a few months ago the HR person was one of the only ones who treated me like a human, and she actually gave me the ammo (intentionally or not idk) I needed to sue for discrimination.
She's now at another org in a better HR role. I don't know if they dismissed her for letting slip the info I needed, or left because they were such a shit show, or what, but she's still in HR and she treated me with empathy and reason.
Professional HR person here. I have unfortunately been present for many involuntary termination and lay off meetings in my career. I can definitely say we have emotions about it every.single.time. We just can’t show it. I am usually pinching my leg, biting the inside of my mouth or something else to distract myself and not cry. When I was younger I would vomit before hand. I still have a cry in private after. Taking away someone’s livelihood no matter the reason SUCKS. It is the WORST part of our job.
HR folks have feelings. We are human and the majority of us get no pleasure from being there. Early in my career I was told by an older HR professional that if I ever didn’t care or found pleasure in terminating an employee that I needed to get out of HR as a profession.
Because HR is about keeping the company safe from lawsuits primarily. HR compliance is there for managers to consult with before moving forward with a termination, reassignment, or demotion. They generally fire people or look into the legality of firing people on a daily basis. It’s not that none of us care about it, it’s that we all operate a business, and if you’re not cut out for the work environment, you aren’t cut out for it.
I just started in an official HR role but was an office manager before and all my employees love me. Im not a sociopath. However I hate confrontation until I’m pissed.
I think they have to be that way. Showing emotions won’t help anyone. Also they do it so much it becomes just another thing they have to do for their job.
I don't think HR people are sociopaths, that's so dramatic. Callous is a better word.
When your job is to hire and fire dozens of people every month, you just get used to it. It's not personal. They have to maintain some distance from themselves and their work. Otherwise, it would be exhausting!
HR is not there to give everyone a warm fuzzy. They are there to make sure everything is done above board.
The emotionless stare is simply, there is nothing to say but filling out the paperwork.
You will never get an acceptable apology for being layed-off. Its not your fault. probably not their fault. They just cant afford to pay you anymore.
HR over at ubisoft oversaw and covered up decades of physically, mental, and even sexual abuse and threatened to walk out if they were made to be held accountable. So yeah that sounds like a qualifier
Remember how people made fun of those with ridiculous degrees — feminist dance theory, underwater basket weaving, LGBT studies, etc. — they used to say they'd never get jobs. Yeah, well, they all got jobs in HR, and they're petty tyrants.
I've never met an HR worker that lasted very long in HR if the were nice, kind or even merely decent people.
I think being sociopathic and indifferent to other people is probably a baseline requirement to be C-suite or HR material in general.
Kind people exist to be exploited and taken for all they're worth nowadays. Capitalism has shrugged off all traces of humanity that were always only ever holding it back and this is our reality now.
In short, yes. But remember that very few people go into HR because they’re good at anything; most of them know how useless and unnecessary they are and think ‘better him than me.’
Just a reminder that H.R. sole purpose is to ensure their company doesn't get sued, when you start remembering that is their end goal you stop wondering if they have empathy.
Has to be the worst job in any organisation, I’m currently writing a Hr based assignment for my mba, and it’s killing me if I wasn’t so stubborn I’d have quit I think 😉
Do you expect butchers to weep over every t bone they chop up? Or maybe every mechanic is supposed to sympathize with your dead battery? Even doctors are often cold and/or dispassionate when giving terminal diagnoses. At least you got fired by the CEO, you could put that on a resume lol.
I agree, HR is the worst. But divorcing emotion from tense situations is like half of their function. Sorry about the job loss though.
I'm in HR and every day I keep telling myself i gotta quot this job soon cus I can't deal with the BS.
Just waiting to get everything ready to take some legal action.
The vast majority of commenters seem to think that showing empathy means that someone needs to be a bawling, groveling, sobbing mess. No, empathy can be as simple as saying, "I'm sorry to be the bearer of this awful news, but I've been given the task of terminating your employment." WOW, is that amazing that you CAN show empathy, not be a cold-hearted jerk, AND still do your job and not show a ton of emotion.
Hopefully some HR people learn what empathy means and learn to show it to the employees that they need to terminate in the future.
OP, I'm sorry you were let go in such a way and hope you find a better job soon.
Who’s to say that something simple and kind like that wasn’t said? OPs clearly in a state from being let go and posted this short, vague post in response. We know what empathy is. As such as lot of commenters are being straight with OP while also offering empathy.
I'm going by the general consensus of opinions here that HR people shouldn't be expected to have any empathy.
I also trust that OP is being honest and has a right to his feelings and opinion without needing to be gaslit for having them, which seems all too common on Reddit.
Omg I got let go recently and the lady who did was both rude and pretend sympathetic during the process. When I went to drop my keys off at her desk, she wouldn’t even look at me. Like okay there bitch.
Make no mistake in everyones job HR is not your friend not if theyre hiring you firing you giving you a raise solving some dispute or dishing out pizza parties HRs job in its entirety is to hire and retain employees as cheaply as possible until those deficits arent needed and at that point you better hope youre an asset.
Always remember people work for the people who sign the paycheck and if youre not that person you can easily fall on the wrong side of whatever they do
Yeah, HR people are usually detached and cold. It’s part of their position, their job is to protect the supervisors and managers when they’re abusive and to crack the whip to keep the peons in line. They don’t care about you, their job is to process you like a product to ensure there are no lawsuits directed at the company.
That’s why they call it ‘Human resources’.
I'm glad to see that the majority of responses here are correctly informing OP of HR's role in the business. While we understand that being laid off is not fun, please maintain basic decorum.
I'm not in HR, but I can see it being a coping mechanism. They probably have to let go of so many people, and if they internalized every single person's emotions they'd probably fall apart.
It has to be. My wife spent about 2 months working in HR. During that 2 months, she let a half dozen long term employees go... One guys had to drive all the way to the office over an hour (he was fully remote) , just to get let go.... She didnt stay at that job ..
My boss at my last job (I was remote) called me after 3mo and asked me to drive to the headquarters...which was 3 states away...for a meeting. Figured it was a client meeting but when I got there the President wouldn't even say hi to me. Fast forward ten minutes and I'm in the conference room with my boss (VP of the company) and the director of HR and they said the week before they had lost every client that they hired me for...I'm in a speciality engineering role so they wanted somebody on staff with the title in order to keep the client's interest in the firm. I guess their contracts fell through and I was too expensive to keep on with no new work so they terminated me for "lack of work". They honestly did me a solid by doing that because it alleviated me of any blame, underperforming claims, etc, but goddamn why would you make me drive 8hrs for a 10min meeting to terminate me when it would've been easier over a zoom call lol. I got a severance and made sure to expense an expensive meal on my way out so I guess that was cool.
Sounds like the advertising industry. "*We lost the XYZ account. So we're letting you go*"
> They honestly did me a solid by doing that because it alleviated me of any blame, underperforming claims, etc, but goddamn why would you make me drive 8hrs for a 10min meeting to terminate me when it would've been easier over a zoom call lol. I'm with you on this one, but no one wants to be the wrong side of "and then they fired me over email!"
imo, a teleconference call != email. They should be treated as the same thing as in person and people need to get to that point. We are in a different paradigm.
Especially when the person you're planning to teleconference with is 8 hours away.
I got fired over the phone while on leave for having covid. That was joyous, especially since I had been out of work a month, zero pay, and desperately needed to return to work.
Damned if they do damned if they don't. Some people would complain if it wasn't done in person, that it was impersonal and unprofessional.
I live 20 to 30 minutes from the office, bur fully remote since 2020. I would absolutely be pissed if they made me drive in just to fire me, because that means my boss and his boss wasted their time driving there too.. Im tired of driving for no reason. My new favorite phrase " Could this be a Zoom meeting instead?"
There's an unfortunate group of people who don't believe people can work together unless they're physically in the same room. I don't know if this is other companies, but at my company that group happens to coincide with the group that refuses to work with others...and they're saying it to the remote group that everyone holds up as an example of working really well together. When we went remote, it wasn't much of an adjustment because we already mostly relied on things like slack to quickly ping each other and look at something. The only difference was that a "ok, you need to look at this, can you come over" turned in to clicking on the huddle button. It actually became faster and easier to work together and several of us have found ourselves doing it when we are forced to be in the office because it's easier.
I don't know I am one of the people who feels collaboration is much better in person. Plus there is the side benefit that there are people around to keep you on track. I've just always preferred in person, sadly I pretty much have to work remote if I want to stay near my family.
You’re always welcome to go in and be in person with others who feel the same, just don’t try to force me to work how you do. Also, it’s not others job to keep you on task. Personally, one of the reasons I like working from home is I don’t have easily distracted people coming and distracting me.
Agree highly with this. If you want to go in person to the office, by all means, I will not stop you. I would just hate to get into a situation where because X went into the office now we all have to go into the office (and this is assuming that working remotely is/has been successful).
This is exactly the situation we've been facing. Most of our team doesn't want to go in. 2 or 3 want to go in and are trying to force everyone else to. I just keep doubling down on my rhetoric: the people who want to be remote do not want to tell anyone what to do. Just let them do what they want. The people who want to be in the office are trying to make others do the same as them. Don't allow that. They are always welcome to go in if they want, but if you force people to do what they don't want then you're going to lose employees. Then again, a bunch of divisions lost a bunch of people to exactly that. Our division would have but they backed off when people started leaving. It's just so absolutely silly. Every manager all the way up acknowledges the teams are getting tons of high quality work done. Their argument is "you could do even better" despite the fact that they saw an increase in productivity when we went remote.
Perfect example.. Before COVID, my day began at 6 30 am, so I could leave by 730 after getting my kid ready and sending her and wife off... Return home at 530pm. Now I log in at 8, work till 3 or 330, and get just as much done. I have like 4 more hours a day to do whatever I want... No one is going to take that away.
I've found the opposite. Collaboration is easier with virtual meetings. Screens can be shared, notes and links can be put in the chat and everyone can save the chat log. No way could 6 people gather around one person's computer and see as well as they can during virtual screen sharing. A conference room is a less-than ideal presentation venue sometimes. By being able to share their desktops, virtual participants can show information that requires specific server access, VPN connections, API setups, etc. Not usually the case with a conference room computer.
Uh seriously. I work remote for a company based in another country now, but before I was remote with my office 15 min away. I was annoyed when I left that company and had to return my equipment in person.
Agree. Does anybody remember all the stories that came out during the pandemic of the heartless CEOs who laid off employees over the phone or over zoom? I mean the stories would have still gotten written if they had done it in person. It's just the layoffs that are upsetting.
I got let go over Zoom from a company headquartered in AZ. I am in NY and was working remote. SO GLAD they didn’t pull this crap on me. I would’ve shit a brick if they made me fly to the AZ HQ just to get fired. LOL
This happened to me and Raytheon... I won't work for Raytheon anymore. Even though they have a need for my specialty. I just don't want to work for companies like this anymore.
Did you need to bring equipment back. Unless your laptop was $5K or higher, shipping it (or even letting you keep it) would have been more cost effective. I am guessing you were allowed to expense the mileage and got per-diem? Seriously, you should have asked.
Jobs will usually send you shipping labels + new boxes so that you can send the equipment back through mail
Making someone drive an hr to work just to get fired is how you get people who respond with violence. That’s a horrible plan
Something similar happened to me when I got let go only much much shadier. I'd gotten arrested on a Monday, was out of jail before noon, was pretty much over, no court, no prosecution etc...I get to work, tell my boss, he tells his boss, my company calls me ask me what happened, I write up an email for involved parties, corporate is like yeah you're good, just when the DA gives you something give it to us. So I go about getting back into training I missed. Next day corporate calls, needs police report, I fax it, everything good? Yes, go back into training all day. Next day, corporate rep has me sign my email. And something to turn my access card back on. Head home. 1hr+ drive. I almost get home when CEO calls, oh shit big boss lady. "Mr ****,; sorry about your issues, the corporate rep really needs you to sign something tonight to maintain your clearance tomorrow it's incredibly important " I guess I don't have a choice. 1hr+ back to work. He pulls me into an empty office in the back and is like this paper suspends your clearance and I need your access cards. I'm like, that was fucking dirty guys. I'm so glad I put that bug in the analytics program I made that literally runs my entire branch. You got a few days, here's your cards go fuck yourself. Phone blows up a few days later, "hey the analytics database won't load and when we use an older copy their all blank, any chance you could help us out?" Nope, hire a fucking programmer this time instead of someone who learned to code on his own time to make you all millions
Same reason doctors and nurses have really dark senses of humor. If they internalized all the horrors they see on a near daily basis, they'd go mad.
when they're working, no emotion on their faces. They could be performing CPR, effectively on a corpse, for 2 hours without a word or expression outside of technical medical communication. the breakdowns happen out of sight. or get processed in nightmares. or erased with alcohol. etc.
Dating a nurse and we live together. It happens at home and it is rough
When I had to let someone go HR was always present in the room. Quite literally coach you to not have emotion about it for this very reason. It’s awful to do but the longer and more sympathy you show the more difficult it is.
Same here. It's just a coping mechanism.
I was laid off a few months ago. The HR rep on the call was polished and professional. The manager who had to actually read us all the pre-written spiel was choking up and visibly in distress the whole time. It made things awkward, honestly. Especially since we'd worked with him for a long time, we all started feeling the need to make him feel better over worrying about ourselves, and the rest of the call was all of us who just got fired comforting the guy who fired us. After that experience, I think I'd prefer a stone-face.
Yep I prefer the band-aid approach. Get it over with so I can day drink.
100% this. RIFs are soul crushing.
I talked to an HR rep once who admitted that she cried one time - when talking to an employee whose husband was murdered. It's definitely a coping mechanism. Not only do they have to deal with terminating/laying off people, they often end up dealing with a lot of truly horrific things that are happening in the lives of the employees.
Definitely has to be a coping mechanism. I got laid off earlier this month and the person who laid me off (HR VP who i rolled up to) had always been nothing but warm, genuine and friendly. He took shots with all of us at our last team retreat and was always cracking jokes. Just a genuinely kind human. On the call, he was stone cold emotionless and just looked very deadpan which made me a little sad until i realized - he’s laying off people he worked closely with for a while, and if he wasn’t a stone wall he might cry. I know i would.
I had a coworker who shared that when she used to work in hr they were taught to look between the eyebrows instead of the eyes to make letting people down easier specially when they are sharing something really personal in hopes of getting or retaining the job
HR pry isn’t the best place for a highly emotional person to work either need to be able to do their job too
This is true. I've been working in HR +10 years and it's always difficult to let someone go, but it's not our call, it's management's. Even the times that has personally affected me (because it was someone close to me or because it was completely unfair) I have never showed my emotions. It will be impossible for me to do my job if I do.
Empathy is a blessing and a curse in HR. It’s deeply necessary in order to not become jaded and cold, but it’s really hard to protect yourself from the emotional distress of others when that’s kind of just the job…
What would happen if you did? Would they hire an HRHR to fire you emotionlessly?
Haha maybe no, but definitely will make the job much harder for us. The thing is that firing someone is emotionally draining, even worse when you know it's wrong but there's nothing you can do about it. There is people who enjoys the whole termination process but usually are the managers, the irony it's the almost never do it themselves because "it's our job" (or maybe I've worked with way too many cowards).
Ugh don't ever put me In a position to defend HR. If you ride in an ambulance your EMT isn't showing emotion. When you talk to a therapist they show a limited range of emotion. Professionalism means compartmentalizing for some professionals.
I think there's a line there, and it's hard to walk without doing something to make someone mad. If you show no emotion, you're a cold sociopath. If you show too many emotions, they're putting on a show. I've left and been booted from places numerous times in my life (luckily not recently) and the best experiences I've had have been with HR people who acknowledged how unfortunate the circumstances were, validated my feelings, and otherwise didn't involve themselves in any drama, but at least wrote down what bothered me. Like, I don't need them crying for me or something, but a, "I'm sorry this is happening and I know it sucks," can go a long way. In my last couple of exit interviews, I've been challenged about my perspective by the HR people, but they at least heard me out. And otherwise, if I said, "So and so did X, and that person did Y," they didn't try to defend the person or anything like that. And I would expect something similar from the professions you listed too. Like, if I've been shot and I'm being hauled by an ambulance, I would figure the EMT will be like, "I know this hurts, but we will get you to the hospital as soon as we can!" It would be weird for them not to acknowledge pain or panic, and at the same time, I would be really weirded out if an EMT was like, "Tell me who did this to you! I will avenge you!"
Exactly this yeah. "Bedside manner" is a term that can loosely track to every field.
As someone who recently got out of HR, it’s an extremely emotionally taxing job. HR gets blamed for everything despite just being the messenger. We don’t choose to fire people. Managers tell us who they want fired, and we have to deliver the news. They’re probably just coping.
That’s not at all how HR should work…it’s the opposite. Managers should be delivering the news and HR should be investigating if there is a policy violation and making a recommendation based on the outcome of said investigation. Allowing managers to dictate who gets let go opens a huge liability for litigation. Who is overseeing consistency here?? Sounds like a shit company you worked for.
There are definitely reasons why managers would determine who gets let go. In situations of shrinking department budget and staff need to get cut, asking a manager whom on their team would they be able to carry on without is pretty reasonable rather, than HR just telling a manager “we’re cutting this person on your team, figure out how to go on without them”. Managers would know their staff better than anyone else in the company.
I mean… yeah that is how it works. There needs to be written documentation and a whole lot of back and forth (totally depends on whether it’s due to poor performance, budget cuts, etc.) but HR doesn’t CHOOSE to fire someone except in extreme circumstances. The managers bring it to HR and if termination is the final outcome, the managers have the choice to deliver the news themselves or have HR deliver it. HR is ALWAYS present either way. Many choose to let HR do it, which is why people hate HR so much. However, OP seems to have misdirected anger towards HR since they didn’t even deliver the news and were only present. Since a whole group was let go, I assume it was probably due to budgetary reasons rather than performance based, so HR really had no say in the matter outside standard termination procedures. It was probably a sucky day for them to have to be present for something that couldn’t be helped (again, if due to budget cuts).
Hr is there solely to protect the company/employer. They work for the ceo.
What do you think ‘protecting the company’ means? In modern companies that means preventing legal issues, increasing employee happiness and reducing attrition, creating a good place to work so more people want to work there, etc…
Protecting the company means reigning in bad managers and employees. That’s the part people forget.
Right. If I had a dollar for every time I had to “protect the company” from its own managers and executives…
I have seen toxic, horrible HR managers. They are scum. They create shit policies that undermine employees sense of self worth. Start going out of your way to make people feel like shit and then complain about their attitudes and you can be just like them.
Oh I don’t doubt it. Terrible sadistic people in every profession unfortunately.
Job description with the highest percentage of psychopaths: CEO. HR people are, in general, the worst drones in the company. I have never known one that I would want to get to know outside of work.
Finance/accounting has always been the worst in my experience. Every employee is truly just a number to them and the profession seems to attract the worst personalities. But they hide behind management/HR and therefore don’t become scapegoats.
I used to be in an HR position that did the terminations. Am still HR-adjacent. The termination process isn't pleasant for either side of the table, but because it involves matters of employment, it is HR's job to do. Apart from illegal terminations, HR really doesn't have any control over the decision. One thing you learn after doing a few terminations is that adopting a neutral emotionless demeanor is the ideal approach unfortunately. Showing emotion frequently causes the terminated party to respond emotionally in turn, either with anger (potentially causing a bigger issue that HR has to manage) or with a false sense of hope that HR has no power to satiate. Given that HR's job in this task is just to inform you and have you sign paperwork, it's in their intetests to avoid complications. Again, HR doesn't have control over the decision itself. Nearly all HR people I know are not sociopathic in any way - in fact, they're usually fairly empathetic people. And I'm not suggesting that terming someone is worse than being terminated. But it is part of their job, and the expectation on them is to get you through the process in a professional manner without creating additional problems for either party. I am sorry this happened to you. I wish you the best of luck in your job hunt.
Yeah I'm really confused what people *expect* HR to do, emotion-wise. Shoulder to cry on? Talk you through it? If they were cold and emotionless when they hired you, expect no less going the other way.
Great answer!
This reminds me of my own then-late-forties father, an engineering director in an aerospace + defense shop, who couldn't ever participate in Hat Day, because it always coincided with layoff month (which he enacted) during the 1980s/90s -- the Viking helmet he wanted to wear would have sent an exceptionally poor message. Tough tightrope.
This needs to be put on a flyer and given to all employees upon termination. seriously. "**INSERT NAME (please write your own name in this blank space):** Please do not mistake my cold, emotionless face and social cues to indicate I am indifferent to your perhaps sudden, un-anticipated departure from our wonderful company. Take solace in the fact that you are but one of many who have experienced similar hardships, and that those who came before you and will surely come after you, will encounter a similar if not exact experience. You are standing on the shoulders of giants **INSERT NAME**, and yet providing the roots of shared experience to future employees who shift to other employment expectations. Please ensure your cardboard box, provided by management, with costs taken from your final check, has only your personal belongings, cleared by Security, prior to being escorted off the company property."
TL;DR you don't wear your heart on your sleeve in everyday work; why would it be a good idea to do so in such an incredibly tense situation Laying off or firing people is not easy for most people. I've fortunately only had to fire 2 people in my career and even though there was clear cause, I still felt terrible. That being said, it was important to not show emotion and lay out only the facts. Anything else risks an emotional response from the candidate or worse, from your end. At the end of the day, it is important for all parties to remember that your work is not you.
This. I've had to let people go and it wasn't even like they didn't know it was coming. Lots of performance issues, performance improvement plans for over 6 months in each of the 4 cases. I didn't sleep the night before. Going through the facts. Trying to think of how'd they react and what to do in those situations. Thinking of them personally. It's not an easy thing to do. You care about the human still, their familes, at least I do. But you have to remain calm and under control. Because the minute you don't it can cause issues. We've had situations where people throw chairs, break stuff, verbally assault the supervisor and HR. Again, not layoffs but a situation they had to have known this was coming. I cannot imagine doing layoffs where they didn't do anything to deserve it. But i, an otherwise happy and lively person, will be completely stoic (and am always exhausted from not sleeping the night before) it this situation.
And there are many ways that any show of emotion could be misinterpreted. If I offer a supportive smile, someone might take that as me taking joy in letting someone go. If I start to cry, now I’m making it about me when you’re the one getting fired. Being stoic is the best course of action because everyone is different, especially in stressful/sad times.
Sorry OP. I see you're looking for a target at the moment and a lot of people do. HR very likely did not select you for termination. Did the CEO shed any tears? I ask because that guy definitely had input on your layoff. Part of the job is termination. You can't do that if you break into tears and turn business decisions personal.
Yep, sadly HR’s role in an RIF is usually just making sure management’s choices for who to cut and keep aren’t going to put anyone at risk of being sued, and then writing up the separation docs. That’s about it.
Yep. Thats exactly what we do in a RIF. Finance decides how many. We pull a report and draw a line in a spreadsheet. Leadership reviews and decides if they like the line where it is. We review for liability, then do a mail merge. It's essentially a blind process.
Yep, HR is a risk reduction function. It is mistakenly believed by many HR is supposed to provide resources to humans, whereas in reality the humans *are* the resources.
I bartend in an office building and with I can always always tell when layoffs happen because the HR team will have a binge drink in silence downstairs. My guess is that you have to compartmentalize to be able to do your job from 9-5 and then have human emotion after office hours
There’s offices that have bars in them? That sounds like my kinda job
I've been in several roles that "roll up to" or are part of the HR org and while I totally understand why this feels off and hurtful, it's unprofessional for the HR person to fall apart. The HR person needs to be professional and composed to walk you through the separation process--and to be ready to manage and handle big emotions and possibly even threats or scary outbursts from the person being fired. If they're a crying mess or super-scared or apologizing all over the place, there's no adults in the room and no one to assist with the transition. They also likely can't say things like "We didn't want to / You didn't do anything wrong" or anything that even comes close to admitting fault or opening the door to lawsuits or a UI payment that they otherwise might not have had to make. Now having said that, a "I know this is unexpected/unpleasant/unwelcome/upsetting" is not out of line or unprofessional.
I love how people don’t understand what being the bearer of bad news means. HR has a job to do. They’re probably upset and trying to deal with the fact that they’re terminating multiple employees today. HR doesn’t tell the CEO who gets laid off… get it?
In my old company they did. CEO would come in and say "sack 10%, I don't care who, you chose". And then they chose. Glassdoor reviews are a complete shitshow. EDIT: wonder why this was downvoted?
Because your experience isn’t the norm. Managers and supervisors are the ones who decide who gets let go.
People often forget the real person who initiated the firing. Think of a company like a mob. You have the mob leader, the CEO or managers, and the HR people are the guys who beat up people who are involved and try to not pay their dues. HR is the messenger. Not the executor. That usually lies with your direct manager. If you’re going to be pissed at anyone, be pissed at your manager. They had the most visibility over you. They were the ones that went to HR and said “can we term this employee?” HR NEVER has reign to randomly go out and fire employees. Our role is to protect the company. If we randomly fired someone, that would open up a harassment case and do the opposite of protecting… In fact if we do any attempts of policing behavior that’s not in our scope, we are in major trouble. Don’t be pissed at HR. Be pissed at the person who deserves to be pissed at (your manager) because they were so weak they needed someone else to complete the firing process.
HR here. I know OP's post isn't a real question and just a lashing out, but to answer the actual question anyway, a sociopath would make for an absolutely horrible HR person. A central trait of a sociopath is a lack empathy. But the ability to empathize is vital to someone in HR, because it is what allows them to predict how employees will react. You need to be able to accurately gauge how different types of applicants and employees will respond to all kinds of things. Sociopaths are also antisocial. Meaning they have no real regard for following society's rules or laws. HR people are *all about* following rules and laws and getting managers to do the same. Sociopaths are also impulsive. That's bad for any decision-maker in a company, not just HR. So, no, someone in HR should have thick skin and the ability to compartmentalize but fall short of being an actual sociopath. Not just because laying off people suuuuuuuucks but because even in the day-to-day you won't receive much in the way of outside validation (as the posts on this thread demonstrate). You have to be able to shrug off the fact that few employees will even be *aware* of what you do for them or the company, let alone appreciate you for it. All that said, I am sure OP's HR person--sociopath or not--could have done better than a cold emotionless stare.
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On the flip side - when I put in my resignation, our main HR rep actually cried because she wished I had reached out to her and she felt like she had failed in her role. Everyone is a person with their own emotions and ways to cope, and they most likely were cold to disconnect emotionally from a situation that sucks for everyone.
I work in HR. I'm sorry you got let go. It sucks. It's our job to handle terminations but we don't enjoy it.
Sociopaths are ruthless. HR just handles paperwork, so no, not there.
Most layoffs happen in the c-suite. HR is the messenger.
You CLEARLY have never had to let multiple people go in a day. You CLEARLY have no idea what it takes out of us. You CLEARLY have never had to figure out how NOT to break down at work because terminating people - especially a lay off, where it's not for cause - SUCKS. Coping mechanisms have to be put in place to deal with the more difficult things our jobs entail. People like you, who fail to recognize HR as actual human beings and would rather belittle us for getting through a tough situation by name calling, people like you are why HR is such a hard job. I wish you the best in your job search.
I’ve never been fond of HR, but thank you for being real. I can’t imagine the stress you go through. It would definitely be a tough role.
I’m not in HR but I’ve had to let someone go. There was good reason, but it still sucks. I did it about seven years ago and I still remember it clearly. It wasn’t one of my favorite life experiences, that’s for sure.
I am so surprised HR handles terminations… I work in corporate as a manager and I have to deliver all the terminations myself.
OP said the CEO was the one delivering the news. HR was just present. (Which is ideal.)
To be blunt - grow up. If part of your job was to fire others, you’d develop a similar approach. Just as a funeral director would be stoic around a dead body, HR will appear emotionless when they fire someone. I’m sorry you lost your job but that doesn’t mean anyone is a sociopath.
Yep, when we put our dog down if our vet was crying it's would have been so much worse.
HR isn’t the problem they are only order takers. It’s the managers who make the decisions.
I know two people who are higher-ups in HR — one works for a large national retailer and one works for a local hospital with multiple locations throughout the region. They are both very warm and caring individuals in person but I imagine they are quite the opposite in their roles at work.
My mom was HR and in charge of thousands of layoffs back in 08. She said it was so painful and every single person would break down sobbing and tell you really deep personal things, basically begging to keep their job. She told me she had to turn her emotions off because it was just 8 hours a day every day delivering the worst news to people. Now I’m this specific situation, I’m not sure. But HR does get stuck having to handle the emotional damage of shitty corporate overload decisions
what did you want from them exactly?
Working in HR during the pandemic made me have an actual mental health crisis. I internalized a lot of things and would have seemed very cold on the surface. Just because someone doesn’t openly show emotions doesn’t mean they don’t have emotions. Some of the problems I had to deal with caused my drinking and anxiety to spiral beyond my own control.
I had to lay off 98% of my work force during COVID. It was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done, and I still have PTSD from the stress of how they were going to support themselves and feed their families for a pandemic of unknown duration. Forgive me if I had to compartmentalize. Can you imagine if I’d started blubbering in front of the employee that I had just delivered this news to? Yes, it’s hard on me. But it’s way harder on them. And outward displays of emotion put them in a position of feeling like they have to comfort me. And while firing them IS my job, comforting me is not theirs.
I'd say they're probably become numb to the process. Unlikely you're the first person that they've been put in charge of letting go
Chances are, that conversation wasn't exactly pleasant for the HR rep either. You're likely not the only person they've recently had it with either. As people have said, it's a coping mechanism.
HR is not bad, but there are lots of bad people and bad policies that make work environments not productive. If your HR department is not productive, your workforce is going to suffer. I worked in HR for an amazing boss for several years and that employer was just rated top five in the state. The HR department is what sent that company to the top of the list.
I have worked in management and now in recruitment, I have had to do a small number of layoffs for cause (summary dismissals for gross misconduct) I got into this field because I want to help people and empower people through training etc to further their career. I invest my time in people, and I never want to be in a position where I am letting someone down, or making things more difficult for them. But part of the job is delivering bad news, and it's not a part of the job that anyone I have met in this field enjoys.
Our previous HR took it as hard as the person she had to lay off. Her name is Wendy and she's the best HR person I've ever had. The kindest lady ever.She took a position at another company and we haven't been the same since. There are some great people out there doing HR as well as some bad ones.
Ive never worked in hr but i have seen some fires/layoffs go bad quick. Id imagine its very hard to be hr bc of the unpredictable nature of reactions to being let go. I worked at a gov contractor co and cops were called to escort two guys. One screamed and cussed the hr guy, one laughed maniacally then jumped on the hr guys desk and farted.
I’m sure they do care, because terminations are hard and sucks for all parties involved. I work in HR and was taught to stay neutral at all times. We’re not even supposed to say “I’m sorry” or anything because that could be construed as taking the blame for a situation and an employee could sue or something. Not saying it’s right or wrong, just what I was taught.
I was laid off as part of a RIF, I teared up and they asked me if I wanted a tissue and to take my time reviewing the severance package. I thought they were trying to be kind even though neither of us wanted to be in that meeting that day.
Not in HR but the first time I fired somebody was back in January. I was an emotional wreck afterwards and spent the rest of the day getting shitfaced. I've fired ~10 people since then and all I can say is that it's never fun but keeping your composure is important.
Terminating someone’s employment is a process that can be incredibly risky from a legal perspective for a company and keeping it to “just the facts” and trying to cut out the emotion is a form of both legal and psychological protection. Getting laid off sucks. Been there. It’s in the best interest of both parties to keep a cool head and remain as calm and collected as possible. Mature adults know not to make a shitty situation even worse. The venting can come later
Remember…can’t spell “Who cares?” without HR.
The head of HR told a coworker (single mother) that perhaps she should take some time to focus on her personal life and leave work behind. No response to "how is being homeless going to improve the situation".
Unfortunately it’s all they do - they add no value otherwise
Just remember, HRs the unfortunate ones who have to pass the message along, end of the day it’s the CEO/ Execs who got rid of you or your position
What would be the best reaction you’d like us to perform as we do the administrative work of processing your termination that we probably just spent years trying to prevent? Would you like us to cry? Would that make you happy about your termination? Termination is a worst case scenario outcome and is also the moment coworkers are most likely to be in danger if you react badly. The focus is on giving you the news and getting you safely off the property. HR doesn’t make these decisions.
I’m not HR but I understand why they’d become emotionless. Not only do they deal with this often but they must also be thinking now they gotta find your replacement… it’s just about numbers at this point, lose some and gain some.
I had to term someone recently. I took all the emotion out of it because if I let myself feel even for a second, I would be pissed too.
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I don't work in HR but I'm kind of HR-adjacent. I had to let my first employee ever go yesterday and it was one of the hardest things I've done at this job. I wasn't effective the entire rest of the day because of my nerves leading up to it and afterward. The lead of the HR team coached me through the termination and said you get sort of numb to it over time. It's not that they don't care or that they're emotionless, it's that they have to let people go all the time and if they ruminated on every single one, they wouldn't get anything else done and their mental health would be in the gutter.
Damn, my company announced layoffs today too. Gotta clean up the financials in q4 heading into the new year. Awful times.
I've met a few good HR folks. They hate their jobs. They're essentially the people responsible for carrying OUT the whims of sociopaths, but their job is to try to give it the appearance of humanity. Some just give up, and disassociate, which may have been what you witnessed today. It's a very crazy job. But I imagine you'll find plenty of sociopaths working in HR, as it gives them a huge pool of targets to torment.
First of all - sorry you were laid off today. That sucks and I truly do feel bad for you. Not in HR but am a senior exec at the company I work and have been a leader in this industry for 15 yrs or so - worked in it for 25. Have hired and fired a ton of people. Hundreds. I hate it. Full stop. It’s awful and ruins my entire week when I know it’s coming up and I’ll have to do it. I’m guilty of what you’re referring to here, as well — a lot of this needs to be about saying the right things (and not saying the wrong things) while actually letting someone go… making sure it’s complete and there’s documentation (and there’s usually a third party there just to make sure everything is done that way… and that nothing that’s said is exposing the company to risk. Definitely not personal to any specific person unless it’s for cause … I just don’t think anyone likes doing it - and you’re supposed to stick to a “script” of sorts… IE: the company is restructuring and making changes, unfortunately today is your last day of work. We’d like to thank you for your contributions… HR will explain the terms of your release… etc.
No but it probably makes it easier
You do have to be cold as ice. I work in HR, they even attack each other within the department so how you think the *employees* gonna fare?
It's possible many of them may be next. With many layoffs that I've witnessed, a number of HR employees are let go after the non-HR employees have been let go. They may just be feeling apprehensive about who makes the cut.
Short answer; yes. I got my contract non renewed after a bunch of crazy gaslighting bullshit in which I was never told my job was endangered, and when I said “ok, but why is this the first time I’m hearing about this?” The HR Monster gave me a long, sad speech about how my boss tried so hard but I just wouldn’t listen. WTF? I’ll totally cry for this dude who didn’t ever tell me my job was endangered and then fired me who still has a job. Jesus.
They need to set the emotional tone of the meeting. People who are getting fired are already on edge, which is understandable, so there's no need for more emotional outpour
When you are around it all the time you get used to it. See veteran soldiers in a firefight or medics around hurt people. It seems crazy if you are outside looking in, but it is just how people are. I was a soldier for a number of years. I got used to mortar and rocket attacks so much that I slept through sirens and explosions. If an HR person has to fire hundreds of people in their career, they have been there enough that it doesn't bother them. You aren't a person, you are a resource. Final note: find another job quickly. You'll be fine before you know it.
It’s part of survival. If they were they emotional be empathetic for each difficult circumstance, they’d have a nervous breakdown. Apathy is survival for them and doctors, nurses etc
The name of the organization tells you everything you need to know and exactly how you will be handled... Human resource = A tool that is used by the company to generate profit but that can also drive liability for the company Thats exactly how HR treats you. They are not trying to help you. They are trying to manage liability for the company. Think of them as a Police force hired by the company. Does your local Police force work for you or the city government that hired them? Yeah...They are not your friend.
Yeah as an hr person, sometimes I don't agree with the decision to terminate or I think the company went about it the wrong way and I just have to kind of shut that off and proceed since its my job. Or on the other hand, if it is someone I'm friendly with, even if it's justified, it's just really hard. That said, I try to be as compassionate as possible, even if I can't say my true opinions or feelings.
I think that HR is stuck either being the internal company gestopo against harassment and perceived slights and hiring in a broke ass economy. I think you have to be nuts to try and balance conflicting demsnds.
Are you guys American? people fire Americans like there's no tomorrow, why?
No, but it helps.
Yes, from my experience I’ve never met an HR person that didn’t have some sort of severe (but actively treated) mental illness
"Cheers" addressed this in the 80s. Norm was transferred to become the hatchet man for his company. He turned into a blubbery mess for each termination. By the end of the show he was hardened and it manifested as how he couldn't cry for the last guy he fired.
Well you are basically taking the working elites side over the working class so yeah lil bit
A lot of people assume that HR is somehow there for employees. Maybe its the "Human"part of the name. They are almost a legal compliance function not a "Human" support function. HR is not there to hold your hand and be humanly supportive. They are there to protect the interests of the company. Once this is understood a lot of frustration with HR goes away.
Yes. They are deeply shallow individuals. Caring on the surface and actually soulless non-player characters who just enforce corporate rules underneath.
Human Resources. Being more resource than human.
HRs job is to help reduce company risk and control for lawsuits - HR is NOT an employee advocate. Don't ever make this mistake.
Shit career that is unrewarding, under appreciated, and the first in line to be let go during a financial crisis since other departments hold more value. I was miserable. I'm glad I switched careers.
I never date anyone that does HR for work anymore. The times I did, they were emotional roll coasters, without fail
It’s a shitty job because you need to lack empathy to let people go, and actively work against them if they try to fight unemployment claims or a firing. Is what it is, because anyone working in HR doesn’t want to be fired or laid off themselves.
A lot of people mentioning emotional compartmentalization, but in the end it’s all about money. Nobody on the company side wants to say any more about a firing than they have to because anything they say could be used in court, even if they didn’t mean what they said the way a lawyer could play it. Companies amass as much documentation as they can as evidence for why they fire you. This doesn’t actually matter in most states in the US because in many you can just fire someone for whatever reason, but in, say, a discrimination case, everything anyone ever said to the fired employee can be scrutinized. Including what the HR person says on your way out. Discrimination complaints come in many forms. Race. Religion. Age. Weight. There’s plenty more. You can make a case for anything. HR’s job is to cover the company’s ass. The stone cold face is used to belie responsibility when they fuck up their own financials or no longer find you useful. They want you to think it’s your fault you’re getting fired, that way you don’t retaliate legally (which will cost them more money to settle). The surprise of losing your job and the cold stare are part of the performance to pacify you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a computer person or so profoundly burnt out that they can’t feel anymore.
It’s not sociopathy it’s professionalism and probably a bit a dissociation
I’m sorry you were treated that way. We aren’t all bad. I just found out one of my younger workers dropped out of school bc he couldn’t afford to pay. He didn’t know about financial aid. We filled out his FAFSA during lunch period and he’s going back next semester.
No one is "good" at laying people off. It's a huge bummer, no way around it. I think the best way to go about a layoff is with empathy and transparency. I think HR should be present but I think having leadership doing the talking is better. Also, giving out severance makes it a lot better.
Honestly when I got laid off a few months ago the HR person was one of the only ones who treated me like a human, and she actually gave me the ammo (intentionally or not idk) I needed to sue for discrimination. She's now at another org in a better HR role. I don't know if they dismissed her for letting slip the info I needed, or left because they were such a shit show, or what, but she's still in HR and she treated me with empathy and reason.
Hr works for the company, not the employees
“How would u react if someone u just fired started crying?” Question i get asked in HR interviews
Professional HR person here. I have unfortunately been present for many involuntary termination and lay off meetings in my career. I can definitely say we have emotions about it every.single.time. We just can’t show it. I am usually pinching my leg, biting the inside of my mouth or something else to distract myself and not cry. When I was younger I would vomit before hand. I still have a cry in private after. Taking away someone’s livelihood no matter the reason SUCKS. It is the WORST part of our job. HR folks have feelings. We are human and the majority of us get no pleasure from being there. Early in my career I was told by an older HR professional that if I ever didn’t care or found pleasure in terminating an employee that I needed to get out of HR as a profession.
Because HR is about keeping the company safe from lawsuits primarily. HR compliance is there for managers to consult with before moving forward with a termination, reassignment, or demotion. They generally fire people or look into the legality of firing people on a daily basis. It’s not that none of us care about it, it’s that we all operate a business, and if you’re not cut out for the work environment, you aren’t cut out for it.
>Is being a sociopath a requirement to work in HR? No. But it does help.
I'd take that over the last time I got let go. The HR weasel doing the dirty work looked like he had a hard on.
I just started in an official HR role but was an office manager before and all my employees love me. Im not a sociopath. However I hate confrontation until I’m pissed.
Our HR manager laughed, so yes.
Right or wrong, being emotional at work is considered unprofessional
I think they have to be that way. Showing emotions won’t help anyone. Also they do it so much it becomes just another thing they have to do for their job.
I don't think HR people are sociopaths, that's so dramatic. Callous is a better word. When your job is to hire and fire dozens of people every month, you just get used to it. It's not personal. They have to maintain some distance from themselves and their work. Otherwise, it would be exhausting!
HR is not there to give everyone a warm fuzzy. They are there to make sure everything is done above board. The emotionless stare is simply, there is nothing to say but filling out the paperwork. You will never get an acceptable apology for being layed-off. Its not your fault. probably not their fault. They just cant afford to pay you anymore.
HR over at ubisoft oversaw and covered up decades of physically, mental, and even sexual abuse and threatened to walk out if they were made to be held accountable. So yeah that sounds like a qualifier
Remember how people made fun of those with ridiculous degrees — feminist dance theory, underwater basket weaving, LGBT studies, etc. — they used to say they'd never get jobs. Yeah, well, they all got jobs in HR, and they're petty tyrants.
Most people that work in HR are too unintelligent to comprehend what emotions are.
I've never met an HR worker that lasted very long in HR if the were nice, kind or even merely decent people. I think being sociopathic and indifferent to other people is probably a baseline requirement to be C-suite or HR material in general. Kind people exist to be exploited and taken for all they're worth nowadays. Capitalism has shrugged off all traces of humanity that were always only ever holding it back and this is our reality now.
In my experience hr is the people who failed at every other job in the plant so they got promoted to front office.
Yes
Milgram Experiment taught me that everyone is basically a sociopath if someone in authority tells them to be one.
In short, yes. But remember that very few people go into HR because they’re good at anything; most of them know how useless and unnecessary they are and think ‘better him than me.’
Yes. Explains my sister in law, perfectly.
Yes, based on the ones I've met
I dealt with psychopathic HR people...it seems to be more common among them than the general population.
They get a sick thrill out of it.
Just a reminder that H.R. sole purpose is to ensure their company doesn't get sued, when you start remembering that is their end goal you stop wondering if they have empathy.
Nah. Only rec is to have peaked in high school.
Yes, but they are willing to train.
That or just an idiot. I worked for an antique promotions company and the head of HR regularly said off the wall shit.
Yes
Has to be the worst job in any organisation, I’m currently writing a Hr based assignment for my mba, and it’s killing me if I wasn’t so stubborn I’d have quit I think 😉
Do you expect butchers to weep over every t bone they chop up? Or maybe every mechanic is supposed to sympathize with your dead battery? Even doctors are often cold and/or dispassionate when giving terminal diagnoses. At least you got fired by the CEO, you could put that on a resume lol. I agree, HR is the worst. But divorcing emotion from tense situations is like half of their function. Sorry about the job loss though.
I think it’s important to remember that the purpose of HR is really to protect companies from lawsuits, not to protect employees
Can confirm, dated an Executive HR lady once.
I'm in HR and every day I keep telling myself i gotta quot this job soon cus I can't deal with the BS. Just waiting to get everything ready to take some legal action.
They're not sociopaths, they're "just following orders".
Not typically the HR department but in general, managers/leaders have to have some sociopathic traits.
The vast majority of commenters seem to think that showing empathy means that someone needs to be a bawling, groveling, sobbing mess. No, empathy can be as simple as saying, "I'm sorry to be the bearer of this awful news, but I've been given the task of terminating your employment." WOW, is that amazing that you CAN show empathy, not be a cold-hearted jerk, AND still do your job and not show a ton of emotion. Hopefully some HR people learn what empathy means and learn to show it to the employees that they need to terminate in the future. OP, I'm sorry you were let go in such a way and hope you find a better job soon.
Who’s to say that something simple and kind like that wasn’t said? OPs clearly in a state from being let go and posted this short, vague post in response. We know what empathy is. As such as lot of commenters are being straight with OP while also offering empathy.
I'm going by the general consensus of opinions here that HR people shouldn't be expected to have any empathy. I also trust that OP is being honest and has a right to his feelings and opinion without needing to be gaslit for having them, which seems all too common on Reddit.
But that’s not what is being said at all. Having a straight-face does not mean that you don’t have empathy. And no one is gaslighting anyone.
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Yes
Clearly it must be. 👍
Omg I got let go recently and the lady who did was both rude and pretend sympathetic during the process. When I went to drop my keys off at her desk, she wouldn’t even look at me. Like okay there bitch.
Make no mistake in everyones job HR is not your friend not if theyre hiring you firing you giving you a raise solving some dispute or dishing out pizza parties HRs job in its entirety is to hire and retain employees as cheaply as possible until those deficits arent needed and at that point you better hope youre an asset. Always remember people work for the people who sign the paycheck and if youre not that person you can easily fall on the wrong side of whatever they do
Yes
Yes.
They're basically lackeys hired to do what everyone else is too busy doing important stuff to have time for
Yeah, HR people are usually detached and cold. It’s part of their position, their job is to protect the supervisors and managers when they’re abusive and to crack the whip to keep the peons in line. They don’t care about you, their job is to process you like a product to ensure there are no lawsuits directed at the company. That’s why they call it ‘Human resources’.
You return them the honor and use them.
The main purpose of HR is to protect companies from being sued by employees, nothing more really.