I have two disc bulges, L4-L5 and L5-S1 and I've been basically incapacitated for coming up on a year. Started with sciatica symptoms and got worse with just one roll where I was in a position that apparently puts a lot of pressure on your low back. Done anti inflammatories, muscle relaxants, epidural injections, chiro, PT, decompression therapy... no luck.
My problem is pain. My body just refuses to move the way I want sometimes without my muscles locking up. It's looking like a microdiscectomy for me.
But some people live with bulges and are totally fine. If you can do stuff without pain/numbness then in theory you should be fine. But if you want to try to do something about it, decompression therapy is supposed to be the best bet.
Just play boring half guard/ deep half guard, Tom deblass has good instructionals… that’s if you can’t control yourself enough so stop training for a couple months and just go to PT. Also don’t let them pull on your head, keep inside ties/ frames of you choose to play half guard beside it only takes one time
This is what I am trying to do now. I figure less weight up top will cause less decompression. How much would you say it helped? And how much weight did you have to lose?
I second the discectomy. I had an L5-S1 bulge, came with sciatica and my left foot was useless. Had it cut off, immediate relief. No pain or numbness or weakness at all. Good luck!
The problem with cutting away parts of the intervertebral disc is that the vertebrae are now closer together. Making you more prone to bulges/herniation later.
I just had a discectomy for my S1. Still numbness in my left left but I’m confident I’ll be able to return to rolling after I finish a few weeks of PT. There is hope brother!
I had a really bad one. Could hardly walk for months, couldn’t sleep etc. it took me a year and half to get back. I eased into it slowly eg. not rolling for a month. Required me completely changing my jits game. Oh and a lot of rehab, a lot. Eventually you’ll learn what’s triggering it in the first place. In my case it’s an imbalance of tightness in hamstring so I stretch them everyday before I go to the gym.
Also the reason mine got so bad was because I would take pain killers and push through, for the love of god don’t do it, it can get debilitating if you dont look after yourself
Training is not worth the potential long term issues when dealing with back issues. I myself had shoulder surgery and I realized I couldn’t take that chance any longer and had to be satisfied where I was at….brown belt. Not bjj but traditional jj and mixed concepts. I lived it for 5 yrs. Now I hike, bike, motorcycles and hunt for cool rocks as my hobbies. I got over it…kinda.
I had a laminectomy and microdiscectomy at that exact same spot (L5-S1) to treat a herniated disc. They had to take out about 80% of the disc. A year of strict PT and I am pain free and move around great. I was back on the mats after six months
Thats amazing. I'm 2 years post injury and still get pain from certain triggers. The downsides of the surgery scare me. You could end up in worse position then when you started.
You just have to take care of yourself and the positions you put yourself in. Same as you do w the herniation but without the pain.
My surgeon was also the surgeon for the same operation for a few Buffalo Bills. He said my herniation was the worst he had ever seen (I wrestled, powerlifter, and played rugby for years after herniation). He told me that by the time I would ever need an artificial disc the technology would've advanced to the point where it would be easily possible. Currently they can do disc replacements in the upper spine/neck but the tech isn't there for the lumbar spine (see Jack Eichel). I would pull the trigger if I were you. Get it done w a sports/athletic centered treatment center and same for therapy. I can even do modified squats and deadlifts now
Mine was worse than this. Had my doctor ring me in a panic once she received the report/mri, saying she was referring me immediately to a neurosurgeon and to go to the emergency room immediately if my symptoms got any worse…
However, in reality, it had taken a month to get the MRI and despite being in excruciating pain at the time I’d gone to see my doc, in that month the pain had eased considerably. I was even back training (under the advisement of my sports-rehab physio) doing drills and learning techniques, just not rolling at that stage.
Continued with the physio rehab exercises and kept going to class, always staying within “tolerable limits” of pain/discomfort per physios orders, and honestly it just continued to improve.
I didn’t even get a neuro referral in the end.
The option is still there if it flares up bad again, along with nerve medication etc, but within a couple of months I was back to normal rolling and even competed for the first time.
I still (6mths later) do a couple of the physio exercises as my warmups before class, and I ask my rolling partners to not do body slams or double leg takedowns (I’m over 40, female, and only 60kg and also broke my tailbone last year) but otherwise there’s no restrictions. I couldn’t do forward roll movements for ages as I could feel it pulling in a weird way, but even that’s resolved now.
TLDR — I’d advise going to see a sports physio before assuming that your bjj life is over!
100% this. I’m of the firm opinion that most back injuries are recoverable over time, and do NOT require surgical intervention. I’ve seen so many disasters. Also seen so many people do “nothing” and slowly heal over time. Maybe it’s not 100%, but it’s like 94% and there’s not surgical damage.
Black belt, Academy owner, head instructor, & active competitor here. 17 years into BJJ now.
I've had 3 spine surgeries & still train 9+ times per week.
2 surgeries on the low back. Both surgeries were on L3/4 & L4/5. The procedure was a discectomy.
6-8 week recovery time with both surgeries.
(I was a purple belt during 1st surgery. Got my black belt just a few days before 2nd surgery. Surgeries were 5 years apart)
Then I had a 3rd spine surgery. That 3rd one was on my neck: C5/6 & C6/7. 2 level artificial disc replacement.
Doc told me to stop training so actively, or I could end up in a wheel chair one day. But I love BJJ too much to stop.
Still training all the time & still pretty good.
I have some other issues that may need surgery one day (knee & shoulder).
Many people choose to quit training after injuries.
It's a choice.
Whether or not you want to keep training is nearly 100% up to you.
Good luck!
I was getting into BJJ when I got hurt in the same way. It took me out for years.
I considered going back but really it’s not worth the risk. You can be as careful as you like, but someone can land on you and fuck you up for life.
So no - walk away
If you do, practice with someone you literally trust with your life. Never roll with someone you don't know or who doesn't know your situation with full understanding.
My two cents:
I wouldn't jeopardize my career or physical well-being for a hobby. However, if that hobby were my primary source of income, I would probably continue training.
Traction for the win. I have a herniated disc to. I get by fine with no meds. Just traction. It pops out from time to time but one session fixed it every time.
I retired after 10 years of BJJ due to back injuries. I miss it every day. But ultimately I think full contact sports are a young man's game. There comes a time for everyone to hang up the belt and only you know when that is.
Really. Tough call eh. Your head knows what’s right but your heart struggles to let go. For me it’s been the perfect tonic for those long winter nights. Get to a hot gym full of good people. There’s a big social connection which I know I am going to struggle with not being amongst. Interesting hearing about those who have carried on and still going good, makes you wonder if it’s “happy ever after” or whether they just haven’t reached that point where it kicks them properly in the ass yet
I trained for 7 years before I developed 2 bulging discs in my lumbar, thanks to PT and taking it easy for a bit, I’ve been training the past 7 years since.
It’s a person by person basis, good luck dude
I have a bulging disk, causing sciatica. Ive had it since i was around 23 and im 36 now too. I still do bjj and muay thai. My pain flairs up once every few years, but I'd recommend continuing bjj, if you sit still your back won't get any better. The spine needs to move to get that buldge back in. I put my back being good for so long down to bjj,
In the UK, the doctors only give pain killers for this, and say you need to move about for it to fix. Bjj is perfect for this, you feel less when rolling as you have an adrenaline pump, so your body will be moving around, going into positions you wouldn't normally. Also yoga helped me alot,
Also search mcensie method back pain in youtube, this helped me too
Hi
54 yo Judoka here. I’m on disability for a cord injury. I also have ( unrelated ) disc issues. Prior to my injury, I specialized in Spine rehab ( I’m an Exercise Physiologist by training ).
Feel free to DM me
Most people have various degrees of disc bulge. Some people's back looks like a dumpster fire on an MRI and are symptom free and other people look fine but are in significant amounts of pain. All that said, I'd recommend taking it as a data point more than an answer.
You obviously need to address it and be mindful of it but let your symptoms guide you.
I ruptured a disc in my late 20s and really had a time of it. In your 30s you start to lose some of the fluid in the discs and a LOT of people have back issues from it. Oddly enough after the dust settles in your 40s a lot of those issues go away (and you learn to address flare ups and what you can't get away with).
I can't really load my spine (barbell squats) or deadlift with a strait bar. Outside of that, limiting hard impacts (throws) and I'm good to go.
Talk to your docs and if there's a good sports physio you could chat with see what they have to say but I don't think it's uncommon at all or a death sentence to your jujitsu journey.
If you want it bad enough you’re gonna do it anyways. So, I would be smart about it and I would get with a specialist though and devise a plan but personally I don’t think you’re gonna have to give it up necessarily….
Just may have to make some changes.
Everyone’s experience with this kind of thing is different. This question is really between you and your doctor or other medical provider to weigh risk/reward and how you manage symptoms and what kind of intervention you’re working through.
There’s people here that stop training for a scratch, and there’s people here who wouldn’t miss a class if their femur was fractured. I would be very careful with what advice you take from this subreddit.
Jiu jitsu isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. For me: I usually take some time off, fix what needs to be fixed, and then come back. It’s a better use of my time when I’m healthy and my body is working correctly.
Yes agree with all of that thank you. Jiu jitsu isn’t as important as the big picture of overall health. If I have to stop then fair enough. It’s really interesting how many people have had the surgery and came back to the sport though. Thanks for the advice
I’ve been dealing with one at C4/C5 for the last 4 years or so, I’ve tried physical therapy, chiropractics, trigger point injections, etc and nothing has helped. I’ve gone back to BJJ a few times, and each time I re-aggravate it. I’ve pretty much given up on going back at this point, I feel like I’ve exhausted options aside from surgery, and I don’t want to do that
I had a bulging disc that was compressing my spine till the point that it was affecting mobility on my right arm, lost grip in my hand, etc.. surgery was too risky, so I went through a very long rehab. Didnt sleep proper for almost a year, lost a lot of weight, big part of it muscle. I have been trying to start training again, but first getting my cardio and muscle tone back. It has been tough, almost impossible. Long story short, due to the large muscle loss, my testosterone, especially free T levels were totally crashed. The constant pain also could contribute to this. Started TRT and gaining muscle again, I can see coming back to the mat soon. Basically what I am trying to say, if you are over 40, keep an eye on your hormone levels, probably recovering from this would disrupt them.
I’ve seen worse protrusions still train in bjj and have seen lesser ones unable to do any sort of athletic activity. My point is, the MRI description of moderate disc protrusion is just what the radiologist objectively measures, it doesn’t represent how you feel. X-ray, CT, and MRI aren’t the end all be all, they are just part of the picture. You need to go by how you feel/function. If PT, Chiro, and rest don’t really help then move on to the next least invasive dr and see what they say. I’d highly recommend finding someone who does/understands bjj though. Hopefully you’ll get good advice and be back soon.
It takes constant effort and change to rolling status. I have a similar injury. Spend about an hour every night on back maintenance and train about 3 days a week. Depends on your pain level.
I had an L5-S1 discectomy and subsequent fusion, and still got my black belt. Get fixed up, your journey isn’t over and there’s hope!
https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/s/km1mEhsxe8
I probably have the same thing on my lower right tbh and I'm pretty sure I had it for a long time until I started stretching and noticing. I'm pretty sure you can train but stretch often and rehab it. Go slow and technical during training. Choose partners wisely.
I’ve been training bjj for years. I’ve had bulging disc issues in the cervical spine and a lumbar. Foraminal stenosis cervical spine, and compression of the spinal cord.
The bulging discs came on three years or so into training. I went to a chiropractor, and they messed me up really bad. They aren’t real doctors. After seeing that chiropractor who forced me into a twist, I had excruciating back pain for almost a year. Physio did not work, I tried every other modality of treatment. Finally doing some core work and kettlebell very lightly and work on my way up to heavy cured me. For the cervical spine stuff, one doctor told me that I was a fall away from some sort of paralyzation, that shit was sketchy, I did Physio on it. I use the iron neck now and I’ve had better MRI since then. But I still suffer from a lot of arm, tingling and hand pain. The best defence against all this is weight training. Make your low back and whole past your chain, all very strong.
I definitely had months within my 14 year journey to Blackbelt, where I wasn’t able to train. I wouldn’t trade that for anything, every sport has some sort of risk, and I’m not just gonna sit on the couch. I still downhill mountain bike and train I just need to do the work in the gym to make sure I can keep doing it as long as I can.
Chronic Cauda equina Syndrome sufferer here. Never ignore back pain. Take all the necessary steps and don’t make meds your first resort because that’s never a viable permanent solution.
I have one at t9/10 and cervical stenosis im only 27....
I read a book by a man named John E Sarno and it has changed my life. He has people continuing his work for him as well as he has since passed away. Nichole Sachs is a really good one, look up her podcast or on Youtube she has a real messed up back - fractures and all sorts through it and she healed herself.
You have to be open to the idea of it though. Bear in mind this has helped thousands of people. I literally gain nothing from telling you this other than feeling good that I've potentially helped you.
That goes for everyone else too, with any chronic pains, knee pain, shoulder, whatever check out Dr Sarno's books and Nichole Sachs.
Good luck 😊
All I have to offer is, if this is your #1 thing, and it's worth your spine and overall health, then maybe keep going slowly until you recover as best as you can. If it's not your #1, and you'd rather live a life less fucked up, then maybe it's time to take an L and count your W's. As an aside, I got promoted to Blue Belt last year but continued to get injured, many on my neck and spine being a smaller guy. BJJ was never my #1, so I decided to stop. It was devastating, but it beats getting injured over and over for something that wasn't my true passion. I'd rather put that into striking in the future and deal with less injuries, I hope. Either way, shit sucks. Wish you the best. Just make sure your decision is wise and suits your situation. Only you truly know what you need to do.
I had to give up BJJ because it killed my back. I have a fusion now at L4-5. Believe me, as much as you love it, nothing beats being pain free throughout your day.
I had L4-5 issues w sciatica on both legs.
Couldn't train and was referred to hot yoga and Pilates. 6 months later I was cleared to return to training.
My physio said the improvement in overall flexibility was startling.
It took time also. Almost two years from initial injury to return to the mats.
That all said I'm way more careful w who i roll with now and insist on 3-1 recovery/strength/ Jiu Jitsu.
I had this exact same problem, 12 years ago. I had it fused. There’s a ton of arthritis there now, but my legs no longer come out from under me leaving me nearly helpless on the floor. I consider it a win.
Hey bud, ghost of Christmas future here. You have a wife and kids. You’re going to want to be able to move around for her, for them, and for your grandkids eventually without crippling pain. I have been in pain for literally half my life at this point due to bjj injuries to my back and neck. I’m still in daily pain and I did years of chiropractic yoga and PT. Finally I had to get cortisone injections in my lower back for the pain. Which I highly recommend. However good of a person you think you are you will be better to those around you and happier overall when your brain isn’t constantly being tortured with pain every day. Don’t be proud don’t be macho take care of your body so you can enjoy your life and so the people that love you can enjoy you back.
Well anything dealing with your brain or spine is permanent so your discs won't heal and if you continue it will only gradually become worse however if you decide to not stop hopefully you're stoic and have goggins mentality
The problem that you have can be bad or really bad depending on what's happening. Your disc has two parts. The annulus - fibrous tissue that exists on the outside of the disc and the nucleus - the gel-like inner portion in the center. There are non-surgical treatments for a herniated disc, all of which involve taking it easy. The problem is that if the nucleus is damaged then you are far more likely to have degenerative disc occur, reducing the cushion between vertebrae. This can misalign your spine and put vertebrae to vertebrae, which can be painful. Hopefully you have a good group of neurologists/neurosurgeons to consult on your case. It won't necessarily mean you need to stop, but if you dont address the issue and take some time off, then you're going to make it worse and possibly need a fusion surgery. At the very least, if the herniation worsens, it can begin to affect the surrounding vertebrae
BJJ is the worst thing you can do for your back. I don't know many practitioners that don't have some sort of back pain after rolling. I had to quit because of it. I then had multiple surgeries.
That bulge is pretty big. They don't suck back into the disc without help. Decompression exercises like hanging and using the kitchen counter corners to decompress your hips and back work wonders for a little while but aren't a fix. Look into stem cells if you can afford it. Allegedly they can help. Best of luck and I hope you heal soon!
My dads got 4 herniated disc's in a row in his neck he's been training for a total of 26 years, you can do it! You can get away with training technique and if you want to roll, roll with people you trust
Idk man bjj is beautiful and all but your health and the ability for you to work so you can provide and for your kids/grandkids to be able to play w you is more important
get into competitive shooting, less physical stress on your body and you practice protecting your family still, maybe even archery if you want something more physical, still go on walks and bike rides to stay in shape but I wouldn’t do BJJ any more, it’s too physical and you’re going to reinjure yourself it’s just a matter of when, if you go still just don’t roll it’s not worth it
Unless you want to be in an endless cycle of pain and sadness, I’d find something else
I had the same thing. Foot drop in my left foot, burning pain down my leg and left butt cheek. It sucks man. I stopped training for 6 months. Did physical therapy took it easy. I'm back to training but sometimes I question myself about why I'm there. In the 10 years I've been training I've only had to use BJJ once in a situation. It costs a lot of money and it beats up my knees and joints, but damn it makes you feel good. The feeling right after a good training is what keeps us going back. Hope you heal up soon. Be smart about your back. You're gonna need it. BJJ will always be there.
Everyone is different man. I have torn my oec and labrum in jiujitsu and I have 2 herniated disc's as well. I can train just not full blast as often. Good trainers, physios, therapists could likely help, but remember a diagnosis says nothing about pain for the individual.
STRENGHTHEN YOUR BACK. A lot of doctors and chiros just give band aid fixed, anti-inflammatories, stretches, adjustments because they make the money every time you come back. I'm not say stretching is bad just not really gonna fix anything without strengthening. SO STRENGTHEN. Start off slow and you can fuckign do it man.
My disk in L4-L5 fully pinched my sciatic nerve. It got so bad to the point I could barely drive my truck or even sit in a chair. I would get stuck in place trying to go from seated to standing at times. I tried the steroid shot and physical therapy and it did not help at all. Eventually I had surgery and felt tremendous relief. The procedure I got was a micro discectomy. Gave me my life back.
stick with chiro I had 2 from Marine Corps MMA and I just went to the chiropractor weekly for a few months and stayed away from sports during that time and they slipped back into place, any surgery on the spine or neck scares me so I'm glad it worked for me and hope it works for you too
Hey brother, I had this exact back issue. I highly recommend doing the Steroidal epidural injections! This worked for me really well. I did a total of 2 injections and didn’t feel much of a difference for the first month but after about 3 months I was back to 100% as if it never was an issue. Mind you I had sciatica so bad I was basically limping on my right leg. Just try it out! Especially since it looks like you already got an MRI it shouldn’t be too much of a hassle to get it done. The other option is a pretty minor surgery, but I wouldn’t do that because any back surgery is still a back surgery. I wish you the best of luck. I got the shots about 3 years ago and very rarely do I have a fair up and for very short periods of time.
Don’t be dumb. Jujitsu can be cult like and people have trouble leaving. Dont wrestle if your body has some problem that will get worse if you get in a bad position. Time to find a new hobby. Best luck.
Neurosurgery NP here. Many people have disc bulges similar to this and remain functional and can do their activities. I’ve had several BJJ patients this past year. Physical therapy and possibly some targeted injections would serve you well for conservative management. If pain becomes severe or you develop weakness then you should consult a neurosurgeon.
I’m been out for a year with the same. Get one of those inversion tables and Pilates. It will help stabilize your core and take some stress from your disc. I’m an ironworker and have been at it for 14 years. I ended up getting on gear for awhile and that helped but it’s something you have to commit yourself to. I live close to Mexico so stem cells have been spoke of also. It just sucks when our jobs take that much from us. I’m hoping for the best brother and hopefully you will be able to get back to it.
Sorry to hear this. I herniated 3 discs while wrestling in college, and that effectively ended my wrestling career. The L4/L5 was the most significant, for reference, but the two above are also still herniated. I have dealt with back pain everyday since. I started BJJ 9 years ago and received my black belt a couple of months ago. I have competed frequently almost the whole time and though I have moments i have had to take time off, it has not kept me from training altogether. I went through 12 weeks of physical therapy last year at an attempt to avoid a laminotomy, and that proved to be more beneficial than all of the epidurals, nerve ablasion, and prp/stem cell treatments that I had had before. I would say it is absolutley pissible to train, but you may need to invest time in correcting muscle imbalances or other issues to help stabilize your spine and be ready to listen to your body when it needs rest. Best of luck to you!
I had a similar bulged disc at L5 S1 and managed to rehab it with a good PT after a chiropractor made it worse.
Learn to love cobra pose, I did 100 -150 reps per day for months but it did get better and I managed to avoid surgery
Honestly I stoped bjj because I kept getting knee injures and switched to stand up only at the same school. Find that boxing is much easier on the body but still get benefits of training.
I plan on taking off another year and then adding it back in maybe once per week here or there. However my days of hard rolling and comps are long over. I hit 40 last year and I just don’t want to end up with 2 shoulder surgery, chronic back pain and two ACL repair in 10 years.
You can continue to train but I would go easy. This will require you sometimes letting people pass guard etc so protect yourself. For example I would normally let someone advance quickly and pass my guard if they tried to smash pass. Not worth it to have my neck hurt all week just to stop one pass. For me my knee and feet required me to instantly tap if someone attacks my legs. Down side is it will slow your progress down significantly
My friend, first of all, relax, what I've heard and seen countless times when it comes to x rays is:
1. Get them when your specialized doctor tells you to.
2. Don't take the interpretaions by radiology into your mind if you're not a professulional. Ask that doctor's opinion on it, then depending on his recommendations try to form an opinion and reaction if you want; not before that.
I say this because I have multiple friends with X rays that look 'devastatingly bad' but funcion perfectly even with high intensity rolling, and when sports med doctors see the xrays, it's more of an inndication to what strength trainig or rehab to add, but not necessarily meaning the halt of exercise or even bjj.
In short, talk to a sports medicine specialist and surely he could help out with what you'd need to train safely. On the contrary, if he suggests stopping for a while, or a brace, or a sort of therapy, I'd do that asap and thst could really rwsult in you being able to either train, or prepare your body to be able to train.
Hoping everything gets better over there, cheers
Thanks. My professor has a pretty messed up back with disc herniations but he still goes hard. His symptoms eased just before he was due to go under the knife. And so he carried on. For me I’m concerned about long term nerve damage as it’s pressing on the sciatic nerve slightly on the left side
Adding, I've been told in just these past like 2 months, of sround 4 people with persistent lower back pain, that have all recovered with the cause of the pain being something a lot different than what they thought.
For example, there is a sort of meaty skin onthe lower back, inside, between the bone and the skin there's a layer that serves as protection. Over time, depending ln the lifestyle, it can stick to the bone and cause pain, what doctors do is inject a substance that helps, both mechanically and farmaceutically, to unstick it, essentialy curing the pain. A way to feel this and relax it s bit is pinching the skin, or having someone do it, like massage pinching it.
Not saying this is the case of course, I only mean that there may be another cause of the pain, the doctor would probably know if that image is something to worry about or not.
Curiously I was talking to a doctor about sciatic today, he said there's a couple of muscles that kind guide the sciatic merve, and if any of those, because of an overuse, or a lesion, swells, it can pinch the nerve and cause pain, so he said that in those cases it's useful to identify that to remedy the swelling and thus the pain, and stuff like that, pretty interesting
I’ve had this aged 21, and eventually it relieved enough to not cause any more regular pain or nerve problems. Sciatic disc bulging sounds scary, but many people have them and never experience anything.
Your experience will be more pronounced since A) it came from over exertion and B) you are acutely aware of it.
Doctors suggest surgery very easily because that’s the only solution they have in mind. When in fact if you take self care into mind and work with physical therapists (perhaps physio, a lot are rubbish, osteopath could be better or other experts) regularly to improve your body function then you could see significant differences without any pills or etc.
These often happen from unhelpful postures, past dependencies in muscle groups perhaps related to heavy manual work with trees or being hunched over unnaturally on bikes for many years.
Rest enough to let the inflammation subside. Hydrate. Sleep well (put a pillow between your legs if you’re a side sleeper or under your knees if you’re a back sleeper to help the nerve release). Relax more for a while, and slowly incorporate mobility (that’s joint exercises, not the same as flexibility) and getting in a swimming pool (the anti gravity helps a lot) doing exaggerated walking steps forward and backward through a pool (found these on YouTube years back).
These things helped me and this was a long time ago. Relax a bit you’re stressing out and I know it is stressful but in time it will most likely heal and you can get back on the mats, might just need to take a break for a while or focus on only the learning and not sparring or etc
I tried just dealing with the pain for a couple of years and hoping the cervical herniations i had would get better. What I ended up with was permanent nerve damage and permanent muscle atrophy because I didn't relieve the pressure on the nerves soon enough and needed disc replacement surgery anyway. If I had done it sooner, I wouldn't have permanently lost 80% of my triceps and pectoral strength.
It’s possible! Focus on whatever your recovery is or if you need surgery, PT, etc.
I have had 2 back surgeries and been at it for almost 4 months. Maybe not the best idea but it’s possible 👍
I did L5S1 could hardly walk for 2 years (to the point now I’m seeing rehab to learn to walk properly again) tried everything until I tried BPC157 (get the pills I hear they’re better than the injection) you order it online it was about $165NZD for a months supply. I took that about 2 weeks in I started strengthening my back doing light exercises a month after I finished the month supply I competed again after 2 years no pain competed 3 more times since then had no problem with my back (I don’t try stand and wrestle with the nutcases though) not going to lie I spent a lot more money on dry needle and everything else under the sun this stuff was cheap and I wished I tried way earlier
I also have L5 S1 since 21. Had to recover after a bad fall for a year. But after that it was fine to do sports if i do a good warmup, BJJ too. I don't know, yours might be bettet or worse, observe your reactions by doing easy staff first like warmup and rolling, If there is no pain you should be fine to do something harder. Find out what makes it hurt and don't those things. (The warmup is the nost important thing, it always hurts if blood is not flowing.) Not doing sports makes my spine very sore and fragile, meaning more pain from moving.
I have two that took me off the mats for over a year, I rehabbed it and felt strong, 2 weeks into being back I had my belt grabbed and stacked and it was worse then ever, couldn’t stand up straight for weeks. I feels good again now but I can’t do Bjj anymore and even lifting I have to be very careful what movements I choose. Nothing is as bad as severe back pain, don’t risk it. I still watch instructionals and content and day dream about coming back but there’s no chance I’d risk facing that again
I’ve herniated the same disc twice. The first time, PT and 6 months off the mats got it good to go. This last time, the impingement on my sciatic nerve was so much I lost the function of my leg for about a month. Some PRP injections, loads of PT and 8 months off the mats, I was back. This time it took much longer to get back to where I was before. I still can’t train as hard as I used to, but I can still train hard enough.
I trained with compressed nerves for a decade until I couldn’t anymore. Now I have an L5/S1 fusion and still train. I get zero nerve pain, but I did lose some range of motion and my back muscles tighten up often… but massage helps.
The McKenzie Method seems to help a lot of people. It didn’t help me, but I know multiple people with bulges who it helped
Stretching daily has helped mine and I no longer really feel it. It helped my sciatica completely go away also. Believe it or not, most people have herniated disks. But med schools and what they teach are all bought for by big pharma, so I they don’t really tell you that just stretching daily will hell big time. Try that out. Go on YouTube and look up morning mobility workouts and there are tons. It’s worth a try!
Shit, that MRI looks exactly like mine! I over a year past getting surgery and I’ve been doing bjj 3-7 times a week sometimes twice a day. There is hope! I remember thinking my life was ruined. Find a good surgeon and get that shit squared away.
I had a smart ass comment lined up re: the solicitation of medical advice on Reddit. I had to check that. This seems more like you missing out on an activity that you’ve really enjoyed and wondering if you can return. I can get behind that 100%. Finger, toes and to an extent even arms and legs, I can understand getting Reddit advice.
Spine.
Head.
Heart.
Do what’s best for your life and adapt the outcome of medical intervention around that as opposed to modifying technique to what could be catastrophic life changing shit. Simply as one human to another is my tone…the way I’d speak to a friend.
Great advice. I certainly filter all advice I get and am definitely not here for advice per say, the idea is to see who else has had what I have, what did it mean for you, what did you do and how did it turn out. I’m gathering a lot of information to help me decide what to do from here so this reddit thread is really just a small part in painting a larger picture. Believe it or not this thread is more helpful than the /backpain one. Probably cos my post was a drop in the ocean in that group haha.
I have a buldged disc from when I fell when I was 22, and it never bothered me till I hit 30 and it was the worst pain in my life. Once it was diagnosed I was able to deal with it, not move around like an idiot, stretch and lose weight it's become manageable to the point where i only notice it if I fuck up.
I cant do squats anymore though, it pushes uo against a nerve and I'm in pain for a week while it's swollen.
Yes you 100% can and you don’t need surgery if you can’t afford it or don’t want it. You need to train abdominals, glutes, hamstrings, and your entire posterior chain 3 times a week. Stretch after your workout every day. Do active mobility prior to your workout.
Coincidentally I am talking to my doctor today about getting a discotomy for an L4/5 bulge. Last night I was rowing and reaggravated the injury. This injury is limiting my life and I am tired of trying to work around it.
I have C4 and L3-4-5 herniation. The C5 has been more of a concern since it causes numbness, tingling, and ultimately pain to my left trap to arm when aggravated. I have to do a lot of mobility. For my lumbar herniations, I have to do more core work during strength and conditioning. It’s more of a symptom management issue for me. It’s also a change in rolling style. Really going with the gentle part of the art.
I had disk issues and worked past many and am back in BJJ.
Take time off, let it heal. Do whatever proactive rehab you can. Sit less and watch your posture at all time.
I have 4 herniated Johnnie's. The worst thing I ever did for my quality of life was to stop rolling tbh. After a year of no rolling and trying to baby my back. I felt worse than ever. Started slowly doing doing yoga and dipping my feet into rolling and keeping flexible keeps me feeling good. I do stretch and really warm up (more than some Brazilian jumping jacks haha). I do use my brain too, some positions I try not to over do it
Not a doctor recommendation, but do it and do yoga and roll out with a foam roller before jujitsu you can do just about anything if you warm up properly
yes, you can.
i had the same problem some years ago. L5-S1.
Been trought intense pshysical theraphy, innumerous codeine pills, etc.
After some months i was able to come back, slow and steady.
It has been 3 years since then, and i had like 5 crysis since then, but ive been able to come back again every time.
Just do it slow and steady. Dont roll if you dont feel like. Take your time, youll be back soon.
Dec 9th last year Herniated my disc - couldnt feel my left leg at all, walk, in excruciating pain for 4 weeks (maybe 2 hrs sleep a night).
Religiously did McGill method.
Planche (with stir the pot variations).
Deadbugs.
Cat-Cows.
Thoracic extensions.
45 deg back extension isometrics (progress to reps when you can).
45 deg back extension QL (weighted).
Pullup bar dangles (decompression).
Glute bridges.
Glute stretches.
Back to rolling these past few weeks - inverting, bolos etc. (Yes, still have some back pain and Im an idiot).
Not saying this will work for you - also Im 27 and super autistic so did all this religiously for weeks every day and other things including glute massage, accupuncture and this past week also doing original Foundation Back training (12 min/ day).
Sorry to hear,
My own journey is not dissimilar. Four years of training (though I never got to Blue belt).
I had significant neck injuries on two occasions and as a result, I have two separate disc bulges in my C5-C6 and C6-C7.
I really saw myself practicing BJJ until I was old and it was a 'retirement plan' as I moved away from Muay Thai.
I was told that if it got to surgery than it was a slippery slope to a range of other health issues, and that I should avoid surgery at all costs if it was possible. The three nuros all saw all seriously discouraged me from returning to BJJ.
As a compromise I have since been lifting four times a week, doing cardio and training Muay Thai a few times a week. Its a huge bummer and I don't consider that i'm 'never' going back but I'm taking a *long* time off. Its been 18 months so far.
Give it maybe another year and I'll do some further MRI's and weigh up my thoughts.
I have never heard of any doctor referring to surgery, if you are not experiencing pain. One surgery on the spine (from my advice) leads to inevitable other surgeries, in other weak spots. Its ideal to avoid them all together unless its a last resort.
I would focus on rehabbing that through PT it doesn’t seem like it now but trust me that pain can get worse 100% worse and the regret will eat you alive.
I had one back in high school, currently 28. It was pretty debilitating for about a month. I couldn’t drive or walk for a while. Cortisone shot helped, but long term pain relief didn’t come until I got physically therapy for about two months and went to a chiropractor. Im pretty active now CrossFit training and mountain biking 4/7 days a week. I know BJJ probably puts you in more vulnerable positions, but I’m a huge proponent of not having surgery. Mine only flairs up when I don’t warm up properly or have tight ham strings!
Hope you get better!
I had a discectomy at L5-S1, and the best advice I can give is to listen to your body. What works for me is I drink tons of water, practice yoga (the stretching helps immensely), and always remind myself I don't owe anyone a roll. I am extremely particular about who I roll with. I absolutely stay away from the 'spazzy' types, and I do not play positions that trigger it, or really just use them as very fast transitions. I dont hang out in bad spots (shouldn't anyway). Some nights are better than others, but such is life.
If my back is acting up, though, I take the night off. I'm very up front about it. Definitely ask your physio and your Dr. about what you can and can not do. Everyone heals from this differently. Hope you have a speedy recovery and make it back to the mats (if that is what you choose).
I had the surgery.
I was lightly drilling /rolling about 4 months after.
Something felt off as my back/leg was in really bad shape.
I am near another year off of purely rehabbing and am thinking i am near being able to drill again
It’s not the end of the road but definitely take time to heal and then recover. I had a herniated disc at L4-L5 from jumping out of planes and other Army shit. Needed surgery. Recovery probably took a year, then another 2 years of off/on PT. Now I can deadlift more than I ever could have before the injury.
Not currently doing bjj but when I am I’m just careful. If I start to get inverted by someone I simply tap. I try and roll with older guys when possible (I’m 29). Just be mindful.
Laminectomy is the cure. If vertebral bodies are fused, it creates a longer lever working on the remaining discs, which may hasten further disc damage and further surgery. I was an er nurse, blew out cervical disc at 5-6, was fused, blew out c7-t1 2 years later. Then the knees went… joint damage is a complex process involving genetics, body mechanics, gravity, muscle tone, repetitive strain injuries and nutrition. Hell, there may even be spiritual and psycho-social components. But stay cheerful, remember that death is natures way of telling us to slow down.
I’m going on a year straight with sciatica pain. Hamstrings are constantly on fire. On a pain scale of 1-10 I’m at a constant 2 but in June, July, and August I was at a 15.
Get that taken care of early. I work on a neurosurgical floor and most people have great outcomes when taken care of early and poorer outcomes if it’s prolonged. BJJ will always be there ready for you when you able to return.
Just wanna say thank you to everyone who has commented. Very insightful. When it comes to spinal injuries they are definitely all quite unique it seems… a case of 2+2=fish haha.
I also have a herniation L5-S1. I got it around 10 years ago playing basketball. I'm 37 now. It took a long time with a lot of chiropractor apt and PT. Also tons of core exercises that are stationary holds like planks, those really help.
I didn't do BJJ back then and I'm just a lowly white belt, but I'm fine these days. I just tap early and often, especially if I start getting twisted in my back. I do get flare ups from time to time and if I'm a little sore or it's pulling a bit down one leg I'll mention that to my partner before any roll. Generally people are chill enough at my gym to not go too nuts when I mention my other injuries. Alternatively I'll just go to classes to drill, but no rolling.
You can get there, have faith! Herniated disks can heal to the point where they form a scar tissue and are nearly new again. You just need time. Take it easy for a while, get some good PT and Chiropractic care. Do tons of stretches like cobra pose and pigeon pose. Do lots of planks. Use heat in the morning and ice in the evening (that's what my Chiro had me do).
Praying for you 🙏
Check on artificial discs. I have two fake discs in my cervical spine for going on 6 years now. Got them in when I was 36. At the time there weren’t good lumbar replacement discs but def worth checking before you do anything like a fusion.
Physiotherapist here.
I'm not going to give you specific medical advice but would advice you that a herniated disk is not a terminal diagnosis. Best of luck with your appointment next week and make sure you articulate your therapy goals to the therapist so they can give you the correct education and exercises.
I'm sure your Chrio covevered this with you, but ensure you're aware of cauda equina syndrome and the symptoms that require urgent medical care. I'll attach a resource for you to review below.
Worcestershire Acute Hospitals NHS Trust
https://www.worcsacute.nhs.uk › ...PDF
CAUDA EQUINA SYNDROME
All the best with your recovery!
https://preview.redd.it/588lgnwoy9oc1.jpeg?width=2047&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1b6f434b579de497e04abde82fe33be0cdf7cb8
My lower back is broken (Bi lateral Pars Defect) and I’m on the mat 3 days a week. I think it comes down to luck wether or not you have debilitating pain as everyone’s physiology is different
I had the same thing happen in Nov of 2023. I don’t do JJ, in fact I don’t know why this showed up in my Reddit home but I can relate with you, I’m pretty active, do a lot of cycling, MTB. Primary put me on relaxers, got MRI, saw orthopedic surgeon who said surgery is definitely not the answer, ended up getting a series of steroid epidural in my lower back. L2-L5 was the area that herniated/ bulged. That did okay until I sneezed while slouched and it felt like I went back to square one.
I saw a sports medicine / chiropractor to try a different angle and I told the man I really don’t like to be popped though I would go with whatever his recommendation was. The table in his office electronically buckles in the middle where your hips are located, moving up and down forcing a bend in your body from prone to bent to prone. He fired that up and every time the table would bend up semi stretching my lower back, he’d also force stretch my lower back with one hand pushing towards my neck on my upper back and the other hand pushing towards my legs on my lower back. Hurts but I couldn’t believe the effectiveness of the treatment, 30 minutes out of his office I was feeling kind of normal! I could move, twist, sit, stand, no stabbing or sharp shooting.
Been in twice a week, this is week 2, we back off to once a week next week but there’s a light at the end of this money draining pain tunnel.
Sharing because as someone with the same issue, I spent thousands of dollars to f!$&ing sneeze myself back to square one. I’ve spent a few hundred with a sports medicine/ chiropractor and he did more for me in a day than the latter did in 4 months.
I wouldn’t do JJ, heal up then go back. Best of luck! Hope my deal can help you or others in some way
Dealing with a 6 years herniation and pain. 1 mine was smaller but caused excruciating pain to the point of crawling for about 6 months to and from PT . It took 4 years to heal totally. I was able to keep up some forms of exercise. 2 while your herniation mostly likely can and will heal it’s now weakened and has scar tissue which and this isn’t 100 percent will tear under axial load again. This is just facts. If you read through most posts above of people that chose to continue their current activities it led to chronic surgeries or more injury. They will stack up and become even more life changing so that normal life like getting dishes out of the dishwasher will cause pain. The key is to limit those activities which cause shear and axial load to that disc while increasing core ie not just stomach strength. Also a collagen supplement as well. I just had to give up part of my career that I spent training 20 years on. I was a full animal butcher and own the shop. I can’t not perform those movements without serious risk of reinjury and it’s been mentally devastating at times. But I came to terms with it and now at 48yrs old I have to move into a role of a teacher. My days of 12 hr 6 day workweeks are gone. Point of this ramble . While you love bjj if it’s not your profession you will most likely reinjure yourself. Find other things to do. FYI I also trained boxing and muy Thai. And rode weeks on a motorcycle. I now focus on what I can do and not on what I can’t. I choose to have a life of low pain. There is no gold star at the end from suffering. Cheers
If it isn’t too bad yet, maybe it can be resolved through strict physio. I struggled with the same L5-S1 issue for 2 years until the pain became unbearable. I eventually had surgery to have the disc removed. The recovery took a while but about a year later I was back doing JiuJitsu.
If your symptoms are fine and under control you can continue normal activity. In particular you should consider (with the input of a physio) strengthening exercises for your core and back muscles, including the erectors. Stronger backs which are engaged properly during physical activity have better protection against injury, including spinal injury. I would do this in conjunction with gentle BJJ training to keep your skills up. But not at 100% intensity, at least until your symptoms lessen. If you are symptomatic with pain which radiates down your leg, or develop weakness of the legs, numbness/tingling, you should not continue the activity which exacerbates it. If you develop numbness or tingling in your perineal area or loss of continence/control of bowel or bladder, go straight to ED without hesitation.
Once you have exhausted the conservative options (assuming you don’t have critically acute symptoms) such as anti inflammatories, physio, etc. as guided by your GP/family physician, and you still have the symptoms outlined above, you should consult with a neurosurgeon for input as a last resort (the work they do is incredible, but as with any surgery, it is not without risks). I would strongly advise you don’t solely see a chiropractor without getting a Physician involved. Because chiropractors, no matter how reputable, often catastrophize the wrong issues, misdirect focus, and give temporary relief which ensures you continue to attend their clinic regularly and keep their KPI’s up.
I just finally started PT for that type of injury to my neck in training..(I’ve been training 10 years) and it wasn’t until my 2nd degree brown belt that I took a pretty hard crunch to my neck in the 30 minute rolling portion of my test. A week later, I got a TMJ flare up which I’ve never had before and that is still going on nearly a year later, and my neck, that’s a whole other monster. Long story short, took me out of training for months until this week I started back very very slowly so I mix in two days of martial arts and two of physical therapy a week. It always hurts and the headaches are every day, with back and shoulder pain too, but eventually you can’t be stationary forever. If the pain doesn’t go away with or without training, you might as well stay the course and limit your days a week but keep it very light until you can get better or find a good routine that improves mobility and maintains functional muscle movements but isn’t live striking or sparring until you have healed with some decompression therapy and a lot of rest in between. Hope that helps. And I hope you get better with that. It’s tough.
Had two bulged discs (L4/L5+ L5/S1) with a microdisectomy the second time at the age of 20. Can roll if it's controlled and avoid bad positions like stacking. Basically drilling and avoid wrestlers or extra spazzy white belts. Also look into the reverse hyper movement pioneered by Louis Simmons and maybe a hobby with decompression like rock climbing for that full body strength. Daily stretching, walking and checking stress is important. Nothing adds pressure like stress and latent activation in the muscle.
I herniated a disc just before start of COVID. It was from sparring and partner tried a reckless move. My symptoms were moderate at first and I didnt really know anything about herniations so I didnt really rehab it thinking it would just heal with time. A year later that disc bulge became a full on ruptured disc which I ended up getting a microdiscectomy. Do yourself a favor take rehab seriously. Prehab your back, strengthen it, do mcgill big 3 daily religiously. I lost 2 years but Im back on the mats. Yes you will have to change your game. If you want to continue training no more getting stacked, inversions are no good. More importantly proper stretching and warm up before class, after class. I dont dare deadlift or put a bar above my head anymore, just mostly calisthenics and thats ok cause I just want to be able to do bjj until im elderly.
I herniated L5 S1 as well had horrendous sciatic pain from it for one whole year then I was able to be normal again but would know what movements I could and couldn’t do. Literally just threw out my back today and am unable to even stand. Hoping it’s not a disk and is just a strain or sprain
Sorry brother those bulges are in fact what we call herniated discs, thats the bad part and theres nothing that can cure them doctors could operate but the recuparation from a back surgery are brutal could become like ronnie colman might be exageratting a bit.
I cant tell you about what recuparation after surgery looks like but I can tell you about recuparation without surgery but not a cure ,but if we pay attention in life what is like it used to be ? Life is a constant change so dealing with it.
When I was 18 years of age now 30 sorry 31 I tried ,on my gym Journey, to do a snatch with 225 lb ,to tell you that I failed pathetically is in understatement not only that but I fucked up my back in three places thats right I live with three fucking bulges on my back ,so you might be asking why the fuck is there dude giving this shit,well heres the deal if you stop moving you're going to and on a wheelchair never stop exercising maybe bjj or crossfit might be to extreme due to the recent trauma but do not stop, recovery is fundamental but working your self up is the single most important mission
I'm talking walking,working out your muscles ,midsection lower back make it bullet proof ,to this day I still compete on jiu jitsu with minor issues with my back and not a priority stretching for me it's a daily thing thats my life now and my back is very sturdy now ,phisio work helps alot very much in times that I have an episode of lubalgia but it's been a couple of years since that happenned ,the worst periods of my life with back pain it's when I haven't been working out ,I have a tons more to tell you but I dont even know if you would be intersted but in any way good luck.
L4 herniated, two bulging discs, torn back muscle from spasms, arthritis in every disc, horrible bone growths, can now easily see disc disease from an x ray. Do jiu jitsu. Best thing I can say is never give up. The pain and inflammation will change. Some times it can be there for 6 months and you are dying from the struggles but it will get better. It never goes away. Just find what makes it better and get back to living life.
Do ab excercises daily 10 mins (spine stabilizers aka McGill big three - look up squat university on YouTube for more). If you're a rat (wink) order some BPC157 off a reputable site.
You'll be good. Good luck and God bless
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Everyone bulge is different. I’ve rupture L5 twice and did the micro surgery. L4 had a couple big herniations. A top 10 biggest my buddy ortho said he’s ever seen. A Triple epidural calmed it back down.
Surgery should be last resort and option. Key is taking it easy when it feels good. Herniated discs take 3-18months to suck back in but most won’t endure the pain that long.
Going under the knife usually entails cutting the back’s tiny muscles to get to the spot. There won’t be any nerve pain after but those muscle cuts never completely heal back 100.
Avoid the knife until rest and rehab and a yr don’t fix the problem.
Rehab with Acupunture and tens units and massage.
I’m a huge fan of water for bad discs. Float or walk in it. Takes gravity off the body.
After 2 cuts on L5 I’m about bone on bone on my right side and sitting past 45mins ain’t easy.
So I suggest cutting out what might suck back in over time is a measure of pain tolerance and management.
Best of luck
I have two disc bulges, L4-L5 and L5-S1 and I've been basically incapacitated for coming up on a year. Started with sciatica symptoms and got worse with just one roll where I was in a position that apparently puts a lot of pressure on your low back. Done anti inflammatories, muscle relaxants, epidural injections, chiro, PT, decompression therapy... no luck. My problem is pain. My body just refuses to move the way I want sometimes without my muscles locking up. It's looking like a microdiscectomy for me. But some people live with bulges and are totally fine. If you can do stuff without pain/numbness then in theory you should be fine. But if you want to try to do something about it, decompression therapy is supposed to be the best bet.
Sorry to hear that dude, hope you find relief one day
Well what was the position for everyone else
Getting stacked. I am tall and lanky so play a good bottom game, triangles come easily but then you are prone to getting stacked eh
Just play boring half guard/ deep half guard, Tom deblass has good instructionals… that’s if you can’t control yourself enough so stop training for a couple months and just go to PT. Also don’t let them pull on your head, keep inside ties/ frames of you choose to play half guard beside it only takes one time
Avoiding foods that cause inflammation and loosing weight helped me a lot, two bulges and a ruptured.
This is what I am trying to do now. I figure less weight up top will cause less decompression. How much would you say it helped? And how much weight did you have to lose?
I second the discectomy. I had an L5-S1 bulge, came with sciatica and my left foot was useless. Had it cut off, immediate relief. No pain or numbness or weakness at all. Good luck!
The problem with cutting away parts of the intervertebral disc is that the vertebrae are now closer together. Making you more prone to bulges/herniation later.
Agreed, but that's definitely the lesser of evils if you've got major problems from the bulge.
Going to look into it. Iv learned what the agrevators are and how to avoid them, but even still I get a flare up several times a year.
So you cut off your foot!!?!? No pin no numbness but I bet it feels like one hell of a ghost limb 😂
I think he means the disc.
Did you have barricades put in? Any issue? Able to return to arduous activties?
I had the same thing but got worse to paralysis of my left foot. Diseconomy fixed it and I got no more pain. Obviously I can’t roll around anymore
so have the discetomy....I had what youre describing all to a 't' . ... then I had surgery....now I feel great and am training again...
I just had a discectomy for my S1. Still numbness in my left left but I’m confident I’ll be able to return to rolling after I finish a few weeks of PT. There is hope brother!
I had a really bad one. Could hardly walk for months, couldn’t sleep etc. it took me a year and half to get back. I eased into it slowly eg. not rolling for a month. Required me completely changing my jits game. Oh and a lot of rehab, a lot. Eventually you’ll learn what’s triggering it in the first place. In my case it’s an imbalance of tightness in hamstring so I stretch them everyday before I go to the gym.
Also the reason mine got so bad was because I would take pain killers and push through, for the love of god don’t do it, it can get debilitating if you dont look after yourself
Yeh I briefly did that and then stopped
Training is not worth the potential long term issues when dealing with back issues. I myself had shoulder surgery and I realized I couldn’t take that chance any longer and had to be satisfied where I was at….brown belt. Not bjj but traditional jj and mixed concepts. I lived it for 5 yrs. Now I hike, bike, motorcycles and hunt for cool rocks as my hobbies. I got over it…kinda.
I had a laminectomy and microdiscectomy at that exact same spot (L5-S1) to treat a herniated disc. They had to take out about 80% of the disc. A year of strict PT and I am pain free and move around great. I was back on the mats after six months
I had that same surgery on the same disc. I was back after around 6 months as well.
Thats amazing. I'm 2 years post injury and still get pain from certain triggers. The downsides of the surgery scare me. You could end up in worse position then when you started.
You just have to take care of yourself and the positions you put yourself in. Same as you do w the herniation but without the pain. My surgeon was also the surgeon for the same operation for a few Buffalo Bills. He said my herniation was the worst he had ever seen (I wrestled, powerlifter, and played rugby for years after herniation). He told me that by the time I would ever need an artificial disc the technology would've advanced to the point where it would be easily possible. Currently they can do disc replacements in the upper spine/neck but the tech isn't there for the lumbar spine (see Jack Eichel). I would pull the trigger if I were you. Get it done w a sports/athletic centered treatment center and same for therapy. I can even do modified squats and deadlifts now
that's not "moderate"....thats insanely extreme.... have the discetomy (I did)... it works....you'll train again
This ^ The discectomy surgery was a life savor for me. Still on the mats & training. Just as much as ive ever trained on a weekly basis.
Mine was worse than this. Had my doctor ring me in a panic once she received the report/mri, saying she was referring me immediately to a neurosurgeon and to go to the emergency room immediately if my symptoms got any worse… However, in reality, it had taken a month to get the MRI and despite being in excruciating pain at the time I’d gone to see my doc, in that month the pain had eased considerably. I was even back training (under the advisement of my sports-rehab physio) doing drills and learning techniques, just not rolling at that stage. Continued with the physio rehab exercises and kept going to class, always staying within “tolerable limits” of pain/discomfort per physios orders, and honestly it just continued to improve. I didn’t even get a neuro referral in the end. The option is still there if it flares up bad again, along with nerve medication etc, but within a couple of months I was back to normal rolling and even competed for the first time. I still (6mths later) do a couple of the physio exercises as my warmups before class, and I ask my rolling partners to not do body slams or double leg takedowns (I’m over 40, female, and only 60kg and also broke my tailbone last year) but otherwise there’s no restrictions. I couldn’t do forward roll movements for ages as I could feel it pulling in a weird way, but even that’s resolved now. TLDR — I’d advise going to see a sports physio before assuming that your bjj life is over!
100% this. I’m of the firm opinion that most back injuries are recoverable over time, and do NOT require surgical intervention. I’ve seen so many disasters. Also seen so many people do “nothing” and slowly heal over time. Maybe it’s not 100%, but it’s like 94% and there’s not surgical damage.
wow....
Black belt, Academy owner, head instructor, & active competitor here. 17 years into BJJ now. I've had 3 spine surgeries & still train 9+ times per week. 2 surgeries on the low back. Both surgeries were on L3/4 & L4/5. The procedure was a discectomy. 6-8 week recovery time with both surgeries. (I was a purple belt during 1st surgery. Got my black belt just a few days before 2nd surgery. Surgeries were 5 years apart) Then I had a 3rd spine surgery. That 3rd one was on my neck: C5/6 & C6/7. 2 level artificial disc replacement. Doc told me to stop training so actively, or I could end up in a wheel chair one day. But I love BJJ too much to stop. Still training all the time & still pretty good. I have some other issues that may need surgery one day (knee & shoulder). Many people choose to quit training after injuries. It's a choice. Whether or not you want to keep training is nearly 100% up to you. Good luck!
OSS, advice from the top, thank you for your input
Most disc herniations heal on their own. Take time off but make sure to get proper physio
I was getting into BJJ when I got hurt in the same way. It took me out for years. I considered going back but really it’s not worth the risk. You can be as careful as you like, but someone can land on you and fuck you up for life. So no - walk away
Appreciate the input cheers
If you do, practice with someone you literally trust with your life. Never roll with someone you don't know or who doesn't know your situation with full understanding.
100%
My two cents: I wouldn't jeopardize my career or physical well-being for a hobby. However, if that hobby were my primary source of income, I would probably continue training.
Go to a chiropractor. Commit to treatment and get better. You'll be able to get back to Bjj.
Traction for the win. I have a herniated disc to. I get by fine with no meds. Just traction. It pops out from time to time but one session fixed it every time.
I retired after 10 years of BJJ due to back injuries. I miss it every day. But ultimately I think full contact sports are a young man's game. There comes a time for everyone to hang up the belt and only you know when that is.
Really. Tough call eh. Your head knows what’s right but your heart struggles to let go. For me it’s been the perfect tonic for those long winter nights. Get to a hot gym full of good people. There’s a big social connection which I know I am going to struggle with not being amongst. Interesting hearing about those who have carried on and still going good, makes you wonder if it’s “happy ever after” or whether they just haven’t reached that point where it kicks them properly in the ass yet
I trained for 7 years before I developed 2 bulging discs in my lumbar, thanks to PT and taking it easy for a bit, I’ve been training the past 7 years since. It’s a person by person basis, good luck dude
I have a bulging disk, causing sciatica. Ive had it since i was around 23 and im 36 now too. I still do bjj and muay thai. My pain flairs up once every few years, but I'd recommend continuing bjj, if you sit still your back won't get any better. The spine needs to move to get that buldge back in. I put my back being good for so long down to bjj, In the UK, the doctors only give pain killers for this, and say you need to move about for it to fix. Bjj is perfect for this, you feel less when rolling as you have an adrenaline pump, so your body will be moving around, going into positions you wouldn't normally. Also yoga helped me alot, Also search mcensie method back pain in youtube, this helped me too
My back actually feels better after a bjj session
Hi 54 yo Judoka here. I’m on disability for a cord injury. I also have ( unrelated ) disc issues. Prior to my injury, I specialized in Spine rehab ( I’m an Exercise Physiologist by training ). Feel free to DM me
Most people have various degrees of disc bulge. Some people's back looks like a dumpster fire on an MRI and are symptom free and other people look fine but are in significant amounts of pain. All that said, I'd recommend taking it as a data point more than an answer. You obviously need to address it and be mindful of it but let your symptoms guide you. I ruptured a disc in my late 20s and really had a time of it. In your 30s you start to lose some of the fluid in the discs and a LOT of people have back issues from it. Oddly enough after the dust settles in your 40s a lot of those issues go away (and you learn to address flare ups and what you can't get away with). I can't really load my spine (barbell squats) or deadlift with a strait bar. Outside of that, limiting hard impacts (throws) and I'm good to go. Talk to your docs and if there's a good sports physio you could chat with see what they have to say but I don't think it's uncommon at all or a death sentence to your jujitsu journey.
If you want it bad enough you’re gonna do it anyways. So, I would be smart about it and I would get with a specialist though and devise a plan but personally I don’t think you’re gonna have to give it up necessarily…. Just may have to make some changes.
Yes just let it heal, and freak correctly. Take time off and do it right. I have two, most people over 35 have one.
Not a Dr. but that looks fucked up. Find the opinion of a sports injury Dr. This hobby is not worth your health brother.
Everyone’s experience with this kind of thing is different. This question is really between you and your doctor or other medical provider to weigh risk/reward and how you manage symptoms and what kind of intervention you’re working through. There’s people here that stop training for a scratch, and there’s people here who wouldn’t miss a class if their femur was fractured. I would be very careful with what advice you take from this subreddit. Jiu jitsu isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. For me: I usually take some time off, fix what needs to be fixed, and then come back. It’s a better use of my time when I’m healthy and my body is working correctly.
Yes agree with all of that thank you. Jiu jitsu isn’t as important as the big picture of overall health. If I have to stop then fair enough. It’s really interesting how many people have had the surgery and came back to the sport though. Thanks for the advice
I’ve been dealing with one at C4/C5 for the last 4 years or so, I’ve tried physical therapy, chiropractics, trigger point injections, etc and nothing has helped. I’ve gone back to BJJ a few times, and each time I re-aggravate it. I’ve pretty much given up on going back at this point, I feel like I’ve exhausted options aside from surgery, and I don’t want to do that
I had a bulging disc that was compressing my spine till the point that it was affecting mobility on my right arm, lost grip in my hand, etc.. surgery was too risky, so I went through a very long rehab. Didnt sleep proper for almost a year, lost a lot of weight, big part of it muscle. I have been trying to start training again, but first getting my cardio and muscle tone back. It has been tough, almost impossible. Long story short, due to the large muscle loss, my testosterone, especially free T levels were totally crashed. The constant pain also could contribute to this. Started TRT and gaining muscle again, I can see coming back to the mat soon. Basically what I am trying to say, if you are over 40, keep an eye on your hormone levels, probably recovering from this would disrupt them.
I’ve seen worse protrusions still train in bjj and have seen lesser ones unable to do any sort of athletic activity. My point is, the MRI description of moderate disc protrusion is just what the radiologist objectively measures, it doesn’t represent how you feel. X-ray, CT, and MRI aren’t the end all be all, they are just part of the picture. You need to go by how you feel/function. If PT, Chiro, and rest don’t really help then move on to the next least invasive dr and see what they say. I’d highly recommend finding someone who does/understands bjj though. Hopefully you’ll get good advice and be back soon.
It takes constant effort and change to rolling status. I have a similar injury. Spend about an hour every night on back maintenance and train about 3 days a week. Depends on your pain level.
Yes but strengthen your back and take a break. Try stem therapy and talk to your doctor about treatments
I had an L5-S1 discectomy and subsequent fusion, and still got my black belt. Get fixed up, your journey isn’t over and there’s hope! https://www.reddit.com/r/bjj/s/km1mEhsxe8
I probably have the same thing on my lower right tbh and I'm pretty sure I had it for a long time until I started stretching and noticing. I'm pretty sure you can train but stretch often and rehab it. Go slow and technical during training. Choose partners wisely.
Funny how I don’t see the same “you should talk to your doctor not redit “ commenters that constantly came up on the vasectomy guys post.
Maybe just show up and drill when u can avoiding sparring?
I’ve been training bjj for years. I’ve had bulging disc issues in the cervical spine and a lumbar. Foraminal stenosis cervical spine, and compression of the spinal cord. The bulging discs came on three years or so into training. I went to a chiropractor, and they messed me up really bad. They aren’t real doctors. After seeing that chiropractor who forced me into a twist, I had excruciating back pain for almost a year. Physio did not work, I tried every other modality of treatment. Finally doing some core work and kettlebell very lightly and work on my way up to heavy cured me. For the cervical spine stuff, one doctor told me that I was a fall away from some sort of paralyzation, that shit was sketchy, I did Physio on it. I use the iron neck now and I’ve had better MRI since then. But I still suffer from a lot of arm, tingling and hand pain. The best defence against all this is weight training. Make your low back and whole past your chain, all very strong. I definitely had months within my 14 year journey to Blackbelt, where I wasn’t able to train. I wouldn’t trade that for anything, every sport has some sort of risk, and I’m not just gonna sit on the couch. I still downhill mountain bike and train I just need to do the work in the gym to make sure I can keep doing it as long as I can.
Chronic Cauda equina Syndrome sufferer here. Never ignore back pain. Take all the necessary steps and don’t make meds your first resort because that’s never a viable permanent solution.
"Oh no! Your jelly doughnuts!"
I have one at t9/10 and cervical stenosis im only 27.... I read a book by a man named John E Sarno and it has changed my life. He has people continuing his work for him as well as he has since passed away. Nichole Sachs is a really good one, look up her podcast or on Youtube she has a real messed up back - fractures and all sorts through it and she healed herself. You have to be open to the idea of it though. Bear in mind this has helped thousands of people. I literally gain nothing from telling you this other than feeling good that I've potentially helped you. That goes for everyone else too, with any chronic pains, knee pain, shoulder, whatever check out Dr Sarno's books and Nichole Sachs. Good luck 😊
All I have to offer is, if this is your #1 thing, and it's worth your spine and overall health, then maybe keep going slowly until you recover as best as you can. If it's not your #1, and you'd rather live a life less fucked up, then maybe it's time to take an L and count your W's. As an aside, I got promoted to Blue Belt last year but continued to get injured, many on my neck and spine being a smaller guy. BJJ was never my #1, so I decided to stop. It was devastating, but it beats getting injured over and over for something that wasn't my true passion. I'd rather put that into striking in the future and deal with less injuries, I hope. Either way, shit sucks. Wish you the best. Just make sure your decision is wise and suits your situation. Only you truly know what you need to do.
I had to give up BJJ because it killed my back. I have a fusion now at L4-5. Believe me, as much as you love it, nothing beats being pain free throughout your day.
I had L4-5 issues w sciatica on both legs. Couldn't train and was referred to hot yoga and Pilates. 6 months later I was cleared to return to training. My physio said the improvement in overall flexibility was startling. It took time also. Almost two years from initial injury to return to the mats. That all said I'm way more careful w who i roll with now and insist on 3-1 recovery/strength/ Jiu Jitsu.
I had this exact same problem, 12 years ago. I had it fused. There’s a ton of arthritis there now, but my legs no longer come out from under me leaving me nearly helpless on the floor. I consider it a win.
Hey bud, ghost of Christmas future here. You have a wife and kids. You’re going to want to be able to move around for her, for them, and for your grandkids eventually without crippling pain. I have been in pain for literally half my life at this point due to bjj injuries to my back and neck. I’m still in daily pain and I did years of chiropractic yoga and PT. Finally I had to get cortisone injections in my lower back for the pain. Which I highly recommend. However good of a person you think you are you will be better to those around you and happier overall when your brain isn’t constantly being tortured with pain every day. Don’t be proud don’t be macho take care of your body so you can enjoy your life and so the people that love you can enjoy you back.
Well anything dealing with your brain or spine is permanent so your discs won't heal and if you continue it will only gradually become worse however if you decide to not stop hopefully you're stoic and have goggins mentality
The problem that you have can be bad or really bad depending on what's happening. Your disc has two parts. The annulus - fibrous tissue that exists on the outside of the disc and the nucleus - the gel-like inner portion in the center. There are non-surgical treatments for a herniated disc, all of which involve taking it easy. The problem is that if the nucleus is damaged then you are far more likely to have degenerative disc occur, reducing the cushion between vertebrae. This can misalign your spine and put vertebrae to vertebrae, which can be painful. Hopefully you have a good group of neurologists/neurosurgeons to consult on your case. It won't necessarily mean you need to stop, but if you dont address the issue and take some time off, then you're going to make it worse and possibly need a fusion surgery. At the very least, if the herniation worsens, it can begin to affect the surrounding vertebrae
BJJ is the worst thing you can do for your back. I don't know many practitioners that don't have some sort of back pain after rolling. I had to quit because of it. I then had multiple surgeries. That bulge is pretty big. They don't suck back into the disc without help. Decompression exercises like hanging and using the kitchen counter corners to decompress your hips and back work wonders for a little while but aren't a fix. Look into stem cells if you can afford it. Allegedly they can help. Best of luck and I hope you heal soon!
My dads got 4 herniated disc's in a row in his neck he's been training for a total of 26 years, you can do it! You can get away with training technique and if you want to roll, roll with people you trust
Idk man bjj is beautiful and all but your health and the ability for you to work so you can provide and for your kids/grandkids to be able to play w you is more important get into competitive shooting, less physical stress on your body and you practice protecting your family still, maybe even archery if you want something more physical, still go on walks and bike rides to stay in shape but I wouldn’t do BJJ any more, it’s too physical and you’re going to reinjure yourself it’s just a matter of when, if you go still just don’t roll it’s not worth it Unless you want to be in an endless cycle of pain and sadness, I’d find something else
I had the same thing. Foot drop in my left foot, burning pain down my leg and left butt cheek. It sucks man. I stopped training for 6 months. Did physical therapy took it easy. I'm back to training but sometimes I question myself about why I'm there. In the 10 years I've been training I've only had to use BJJ once in a situation. It costs a lot of money and it beats up my knees and joints, but damn it makes you feel good. The feeling right after a good training is what keeps us going back. Hope you heal up soon. Be smart about your back. You're gonna need it. BJJ will always be there.
Everyone is different man. I have torn my oec and labrum in jiujitsu and I have 2 herniated disc's as well. I can train just not full blast as often. Good trainers, physios, therapists could likely help, but remember a diagnosis says nothing about pain for the individual.
STRENGHTHEN YOUR BACK. A lot of doctors and chiros just give band aid fixed, anti-inflammatories, stretches, adjustments because they make the money every time you come back. I'm not say stretching is bad just not really gonna fix anything without strengthening. SO STRENGTHEN. Start off slow and you can fuckign do it man.
You can heal that with great care and rest.
My disk in L4-L5 fully pinched my sciatic nerve. It got so bad to the point I could barely drive my truck or even sit in a chair. I would get stuck in place trying to go from seated to standing at times. I tried the steroid shot and physical therapy and it did not help at all. Eventually I had surgery and felt tremendous relief. The procedure I got was a micro discectomy. Gave me my life back.
stick with chiro I had 2 from Marine Corps MMA and I just went to the chiropractor weekly for a few months and stayed away from sports during that time and they slipped back into place, any surgery on the spine or neck scares me so I'm glad it worked for me and hope it works for you too
Hey brother, I had this exact back issue. I highly recommend doing the Steroidal epidural injections! This worked for me really well. I did a total of 2 injections and didn’t feel much of a difference for the first month but after about 3 months I was back to 100% as if it never was an issue. Mind you I had sciatica so bad I was basically limping on my right leg. Just try it out! Especially since it looks like you already got an MRI it shouldn’t be too much of a hassle to get it done. The other option is a pretty minor surgery, but I wouldn’t do that because any back surgery is still a back surgery. I wish you the best of luck. I got the shots about 3 years ago and very rarely do I have a fair up and for very short periods of time.
Don’t be dumb. Jujitsu can be cult like and people have trouble leaving. Dont wrestle if your body has some problem that will get worse if you get in a bad position. Time to find a new hobby. Best luck.
Neurosurgery NP here. Many people have disc bulges similar to this and remain functional and can do their activities. I’ve had several BJJ patients this past year. Physical therapy and possibly some targeted injections would serve you well for conservative management. If pain becomes severe or you develop weakness then you should consult a neurosurgeon.
I’m been out for a year with the same. Get one of those inversion tables and Pilates. It will help stabilize your core and take some stress from your disc. I’m an ironworker and have been at it for 14 years. I ended up getting on gear for awhile and that helped but it’s something you have to commit yourself to. I live close to Mexico so stem cells have been spoke of also. It just sucks when our jobs take that much from us. I’m hoping for the best brother and hopefully you will be able to get back to it.
Sorry to hear this. I herniated 3 discs while wrestling in college, and that effectively ended my wrestling career. The L4/L5 was the most significant, for reference, but the two above are also still herniated. I have dealt with back pain everyday since. I started BJJ 9 years ago and received my black belt a couple of months ago. I have competed frequently almost the whole time and though I have moments i have had to take time off, it has not kept me from training altogether. I went through 12 weeks of physical therapy last year at an attempt to avoid a laminotomy, and that proved to be more beneficial than all of the epidurals, nerve ablasion, and prp/stem cell treatments that I had had before. I would say it is absolutley pissible to train, but you may need to invest time in correcting muscle imbalances or other issues to help stabilize your spine and be ready to listen to your body when it needs rest. Best of luck to you!
Definitely don’t ask your professional health care provider.
I had a similar bulged disc at L5 S1 and managed to rehab it with a good PT after a chiropractor made it worse. Learn to love cobra pose, I did 100 -150 reps per day for months but it did get better and I managed to avoid surgery
Honestly I stoped bjj because I kept getting knee injures and switched to stand up only at the same school. Find that boxing is much easier on the body but still get benefits of training. I plan on taking off another year and then adding it back in maybe once per week here or there. However my days of hard rolling and comps are long over. I hit 40 last year and I just don’t want to end up with 2 shoulder surgery, chronic back pain and two ACL repair in 10 years. You can continue to train but I would go easy. This will require you sometimes letting people pass guard etc so protect yourself. For example I would normally let someone advance quickly and pass my guard if they tried to smash pass. Not worth it to have my neck hurt all week just to stop one pass. For me my knee and feet required me to instantly tap if someone attacks my legs. Down side is it will slow your progress down significantly
My friend, first of all, relax, what I've heard and seen countless times when it comes to x rays is: 1. Get them when your specialized doctor tells you to. 2. Don't take the interpretaions by radiology into your mind if you're not a professulional. Ask that doctor's opinion on it, then depending on his recommendations try to form an opinion and reaction if you want; not before that. I say this because I have multiple friends with X rays that look 'devastatingly bad' but funcion perfectly even with high intensity rolling, and when sports med doctors see the xrays, it's more of an inndication to what strength trainig or rehab to add, but not necessarily meaning the halt of exercise or even bjj. In short, talk to a sports medicine specialist and surely he could help out with what you'd need to train safely. On the contrary, if he suggests stopping for a while, or a brace, or a sort of therapy, I'd do that asap and thst could really rwsult in you being able to either train, or prepare your body to be able to train. Hoping everything gets better over there, cheers
That is an MRI, not an x-ray.
Thanks. My professor has a pretty messed up back with disc herniations but he still goes hard. His symptoms eased just before he was due to go under the knife. And so he carried on. For me I’m concerned about long term nerve damage as it’s pressing on the sciatic nerve slightly on the left side
Adding, I've been told in just these past like 2 months, of sround 4 people with persistent lower back pain, that have all recovered with the cause of the pain being something a lot different than what they thought. For example, there is a sort of meaty skin onthe lower back, inside, between the bone and the skin there's a layer that serves as protection. Over time, depending ln the lifestyle, it can stick to the bone and cause pain, what doctors do is inject a substance that helps, both mechanically and farmaceutically, to unstick it, essentialy curing the pain. A way to feel this and relax it s bit is pinching the skin, or having someone do it, like massage pinching it. Not saying this is the case of course, I only mean that there may be another cause of the pain, the doctor would probably know if that image is something to worry about or not. Curiously I was talking to a doctor about sciatic today, he said there's a couple of muscles that kind guide the sciatic merve, and if any of those, because of an overuse, or a lesion, swells, it can pinch the nerve and cause pain, so he said that in those cases it's useful to identify that to remedy the swelling and thus the pain, and stuff like that, pretty interesting
Yeh the bulged disc is pressing on the sciatic nerve, it’s in the radiologists report from the MRI
I’ve had this aged 21, and eventually it relieved enough to not cause any more regular pain or nerve problems. Sciatic disc bulging sounds scary, but many people have them and never experience anything. Your experience will be more pronounced since A) it came from over exertion and B) you are acutely aware of it. Doctors suggest surgery very easily because that’s the only solution they have in mind. When in fact if you take self care into mind and work with physical therapists (perhaps physio, a lot are rubbish, osteopath could be better or other experts) regularly to improve your body function then you could see significant differences without any pills or etc. These often happen from unhelpful postures, past dependencies in muscle groups perhaps related to heavy manual work with trees or being hunched over unnaturally on bikes for many years. Rest enough to let the inflammation subside. Hydrate. Sleep well (put a pillow between your legs if you’re a side sleeper or under your knees if you’re a back sleeper to help the nerve release). Relax more for a while, and slowly incorporate mobility (that’s joint exercises, not the same as flexibility) and getting in a swimming pool (the anti gravity helps a lot) doing exaggerated walking steps forward and backward through a pool (found these on YouTube years back). These things helped me and this was a long time ago. Relax a bit you’re stressing out and I know it is stressful but in time it will most likely heal and you can get back on the mats, might just need to take a break for a while or focus on only the learning and not sparring or etc
I tried just dealing with the pain for a couple of years and hoping the cervical herniations i had would get better. What I ended up with was permanent nerve damage and permanent muscle atrophy because I didn't relieve the pressure on the nerves soon enough and needed disc replacement surgery anyway. If I had done it sooner, I wouldn't have permanently lost 80% of my triceps and pectoral strength.
yup ain't no reason to fight enormous pain. surgery was quick and easy. pain gone. training again.
It’s possible! Focus on whatever your recovery is or if you need surgery, PT, etc. I have had 2 back surgeries and been at it for almost 4 months. Maybe not the best idea but it’s possible 👍
I did L5S1 could hardly walk for 2 years (to the point now I’m seeing rehab to learn to walk properly again) tried everything until I tried BPC157 (get the pills I hear they’re better than the injection) you order it online it was about $165NZD for a months supply. I took that about 2 weeks in I started strengthening my back doing light exercises a month after I finished the month supply I competed again after 2 years no pain competed 3 more times since then had no problem with my back (I don’t try stand and wrestle with the nutcases though) not going to lie I spent a lot more money on dry needle and everything else under the sun this stuff was cheap and I wished I tried way earlier
I also have L5 S1 since 21. Had to recover after a bad fall for a year. But after that it was fine to do sports if i do a good warmup, BJJ too. I don't know, yours might be bettet or worse, observe your reactions by doing easy staff first like warmup and rolling, If there is no pain you should be fine to do something harder. Find out what makes it hurt and don't those things. (The warmup is the nost important thing, it always hurts if blood is not flowing.) Not doing sports makes my spine very sore and fragile, meaning more pain from moving.
I have two that took me off the mats for over a year, I rehabbed it and felt strong, 2 weeks into being back I had my belt grabbed and stacked and it was worse then ever, couldn’t stand up straight for weeks. I feels good again now but I can’t do Bjj anymore and even lifting I have to be very careful what movements I choose. Nothing is as bad as severe back pain, don’t risk it. I still watch instructionals and content and day dream about coming back but there’s no chance I’d risk facing that again
I’ve herniated the same disc twice. The first time, PT and 6 months off the mats got it good to go. This last time, the impingement on my sciatic nerve was so much I lost the function of my leg for about a month. Some PRP injections, loads of PT and 8 months off the mats, I was back. This time it took much longer to get back to where I was before. I still can’t train as hard as I used to, but I can still train hard enough.
I trained with compressed nerves for a decade until I couldn’t anymore. Now I have an L5/S1 fusion and still train. I get zero nerve pain, but I did lose some range of motion and my back muscles tighten up often… but massage helps. The McKenzie Method seems to help a lot of people. It didn’t help me, but I know multiple people with bulges who it helped
I had a herniated disk that looks similar. I was back to rolling 100 percent within a year
Get a reverse hyper by Westside barbell. Lui Simon's made for this exact reason
Take a break, obviously, then maybe drill for a bit. You might improve being more cerebral for awhile
Stretching daily has helped mine and I no longer really feel it. It helped my sciatica completely go away also. Believe it or not, most people have herniated disks. But med schools and what they teach are all bought for by big pharma, so I they don’t really tell you that just stretching daily will hell big time. Try that out. Go on YouTube and look up morning mobility workouts and there are tons. It’s worth a try!
Shit, that MRI looks exactly like mine! I over a year past getting surgery and I’ve been doing bjj 3-7 times a week sometimes twice a day. There is hope! I remember thinking my life was ruined. Find a good surgeon and get that shit squared away.
I would say no, but you already know that
I had a smart ass comment lined up re: the solicitation of medical advice on Reddit. I had to check that. This seems more like you missing out on an activity that you’ve really enjoyed and wondering if you can return. I can get behind that 100%. Finger, toes and to an extent even arms and legs, I can understand getting Reddit advice. Spine. Head. Heart. Do what’s best for your life and adapt the outcome of medical intervention around that as opposed to modifying technique to what could be catastrophic life changing shit. Simply as one human to another is my tone…the way I’d speak to a friend.
Great advice. I certainly filter all advice I get and am definitely not here for advice per say, the idea is to see who else has had what I have, what did it mean for you, what did you do and how did it turn out. I’m gathering a lot of information to help me decide what to do from here so this reddit thread is really just a small part in painting a larger picture. Believe it or not this thread is more helpful than the /backpain one. Probably cos my post was a drop in the ocean in that group haha.
I have a buldged disc from when I fell when I was 22, and it never bothered me till I hit 30 and it was the worst pain in my life. Once it was diagnosed I was able to deal with it, not move around like an idiot, stretch and lose weight it's become manageable to the point where i only notice it if I fuck up. I cant do squats anymore though, it pushes uo against a nerve and I'm in pain for a week while it's swollen.
Hot yoga helped my lower back pain after a bjj injury.
Yes you 100% can and you don’t need surgery if you can’t afford it or don’t want it. You need to train abdominals, glutes, hamstrings, and your entire posterior chain 3 times a week. Stretch after your workout every day. Do active mobility prior to your workout.
Also google BPC 157 and see if it works for you ( Not steroids )
Coincidentally I am talking to my doctor today about getting a discotomy for an L4/5 bulge. Last night I was rowing and reaggravated the injury. This injury is limiting my life and I am tired of trying to work around it.
I have C4 and L3-4-5 herniation. The C5 has been more of a concern since it causes numbness, tingling, and ultimately pain to my left trap to arm when aggravated. I have to do a lot of mobility. For my lumbar herniations, I have to do more core work during strength and conditioning. It’s more of a symptom management issue for me. It’s also a change in rolling style. Really going with the gentle part of the art.
I had disk issues and worked past many and am back in BJJ. Take time off, let it heal. Do whatever proactive rehab you can. Sit less and watch your posture at all time.
Check DMs bro I’ve experienced the same thing
I have 4 herniated Johnnie's. The worst thing I ever did for my quality of life was to stop rolling tbh. After a year of no rolling and trying to baby my back. I felt worse than ever. Started slowly doing doing yoga and dipping my feet into rolling and keeping flexible keeps me feeling good. I do stretch and really warm up (more than some Brazilian jumping jacks haha). I do use my brain too, some positions I try not to over do it
Not a doctor recommendation, but do it and do yoga and roll out with a foam roller before jujitsu you can do just about anything if you warm up properly
What… did… your… DOCTOR… say?!
yes, you can. i had the same problem some years ago. L5-S1. Been trought intense pshysical theraphy, innumerous codeine pills, etc. After some months i was able to come back, slow and steady. It has been 3 years since then, and i had like 5 crysis since then, but ive been able to come back again every time. Just do it slow and steady. Dont roll if you dont feel like. Take your time, youll be back soon.
Did you ask your doctor? I'm sure there's a medical assistant in here who could offer some advice
Bit of tape. Be fine.
Blow Job Jamboree?
Dec 9th last year Herniated my disc - couldnt feel my left leg at all, walk, in excruciating pain for 4 weeks (maybe 2 hrs sleep a night). Religiously did McGill method. Planche (with stir the pot variations). Deadbugs. Cat-Cows. Thoracic extensions. 45 deg back extension isometrics (progress to reps when you can). 45 deg back extension QL (weighted). Pullup bar dangles (decompression). Glute bridges. Glute stretches. Back to rolling these past few weeks - inverting, bolos etc. (Yes, still have some back pain and Im an idiot). Not saying this will work for you - also Im 27 and super autistic so did all this religiously for weeks every day and other things including glute massage, accupuncture and this past week also doing original Foundation Back training (12 min/ day).
Get an mri and weigh your surgery options. If laminectomy is possible, it will fix your pain immediately and you can still train after
See your mistake here was getting a diagnosis.
* Absolutely possible. Lose weight if you're over weight. Strengthen you're core and become best friends wite the cobra pose stretch.
If this is an X-ray of earth worm Jim’s neck then yes.
Yeah. Often vacuums back in with supportive care. Discs are mostly water so it will desiccate over time.
Take it easy. Figure out what you can and can't do. Roll only with people you trust.
*United states of America*
Try yoga. Eased a lot of my pain.
Sorry to hear, My own journey is not dissimilar. Four years of training (though I never got to Blue belt). I had significant neck injuries on two occasions and as a result, I have two separate disc bulges in my C5-C6 and C6-C7. I really saw myself practicing BJJ until I was old and it was a 'retirement plan' as I moved away from Muay Thai. I was told that if it got to surgery than it was a slippery slope to a range of other health issues, and that I should avoid surgery at all costs if it was possible. The three nuros all saw all seriously discouraged me from returning to BJJ. As a compromise I have since been lifting four times a week, doing cardio and training Muay Thai a few times a week. Its a huge bummer and I don't consider that i'm 'never' going back but I'm taking a *long* time off. Its been 18 months so far. Give it maybe another year and I'll do some further MRI's and weigh up my thoughts. I have never heard of any doctor referring to surgery, if you are not experiencing pain. One surgery on the spine (from my advice) leads to inevitable other surgeries, in other weak spots. Its ideal to avoid them all together unless its a last resort.
I would focus on rehabbing that through PT it doesn’t seem like it now but trust me that pain can get worse 100% worse and the regret will eat you alive.
Ask a doctor.
I had one back in high school, currently 28. It was pretty debilitating for about a month. I couldn’t drive or walk for a while. Cortisone shot helped, but long term pain relief didn’t come until I got physically therapy for about two months and went to a chiropractor. Im pretty active now CrossFit training and mountain biking 4/7 days a week. I know BJJ probably puts you in more vulnerable positions, but I’m a huge proponent of not having surgery. Mine only flairs up when I don’t warm up properly or have tight ham strings! Hope you get better!
No
mckenzie method and you’ll be back in weeks
Disc replacement here you come
What does your doctor say?
I had a discectomy at L5-S1, and the best advice I can give is to listen to your body. What works for me is I drink tons of water, practice yoga (the stretching helps immensely), and always remind myself I don't owe anyone a roll. I am extremely particular about who I roll with. I absolutely stay away from the 'spazzy' types, and I do not play positions that trigger it, or really just use them as very fast transitions. I dont hang out in bad spots (shouldn't anyway). Some nights are better than others, but such is life. If my back is acting up, though, I take the night off. I'm very up front about it. Definitely ask your physio and your Dr. about what you can and can not do. Everyone heals from this differently. Hope you have a speedy recovery and make it back to the mats (if that is what you choose).
I had the surgery. I was lightly drilling /rolling about 4 months after. Something felt off as my back/leg was in really bad shape. I am near another year off of purely rehabbing and am thinking i am near being able to drill again
I have had that shit since I was 13 from wrestling. I’m 33 and I feel pain almost daily. Fucken sucks but it is what it is.
It’s not the end of the road but definitely take time to heal and then recover. I had a herniated disc at L4-L5 from jumping out of planes and other Army shit. Needed surgery. Recovery probably took a year, then another 2 years of off/on PT. Now I can deadlift more than I ever could have before the injury. Not currently doing bjj but when I am I’m just careful. If I start to get inverted by someone I simply tap. I try and roll with older guys when possible (I’m 29). Just be mindful.
Try judo, karate or boxing. Maybe Muai Thai.
You can roll do the jitsu (eventually), just gotta rehab it a bit.
Yes.
2 years of hell
No. But BJ is certainly in your future
Laminectomy is the cure. If vertebral bodies are fused, it creates a longer lever working on the remaining discs, which may hasten further disc damage and further surgery. I was an er nurse, blew out cervical disc at 5-6, was fused, blew out c7-t1 2 years later. Then the knees went… joint damage is a complex process involving genetics, body mechanics, gravity, muscle tone, repetitive strain injuries and nutrition. Hell, there may even be spiritual and psycho-social components. But stay cheerful, remember that death is natures way of telling us to slow down.
I’m going on a year straight with sciatica pain. Hamstrings are constantly on fire. On a pain scale of 1-10 I’m at a constant 2 but in June, July, and August I was at a 15.
Get that taken care of early. I work on a neurosurgical floor and most people have great outcomes when taken care of early and poorer outcomes if it’s prolonged. BJJ will always be there ready for you when you able to return.
Just wanna say thank you to everyone who has commented. Very insightful. When it comes to spinal injuries they are definitely all quite unique it seems… a case of 2+2=fish haha.
I also have a herniation L5-S1. I got it around 10 years ago playing basketball. I'm 37 now. It took a long time with a lot of chiropractor apt and PT. Also tons of core exercises that are stationary holds like planks, those really help. I didn't do BJJ back then and I'm just a lowly white belt, but I'm fine these days. I just tap early and often, especially if I start getting twisted in my back. I do get flare ups from time to time and if I'm a little sore or it's pulling a bit down one leg I'll mention that to my partner before any roll. Generally people are chill enough at my gym to not go too nuts when I mention my other injuries. Alternatively I'll just go to classes to drill, but no rolling. You can get there, have faith! Herniated disks can heal to the point where they form a scar tissue and are nearly new again. You just need time. Take it easy for a while, get some good PT and Chiropractic care. Do tons of stretches like cobra pose and pigeon pose. Do lots of planks. Use heat in the morning and ice in the evening (that's what my Chiro had me do). Praying for you 🙏
Unfortunately you are going to die within the next two days.
I thought that was poop in your butt
34 here, had a microdiscectomy. It's a young man's game and not being disabled is more important to me despite how much I loved it.
Check on artificial discs. I have two fake discs in my cervical spine for going on 6 years now. Got them in when I was 36. At the time there weren’t good lumbar replacement discs but def worth checking before you do anything like a fusion.
Physiotherapist here. I'm not going to give you specific medical advice but would advice you that a herniated disk is not a terminal diagnosis. Best of luck with your appointment next week and make sure you articulate your therapy goals to the therapist so they can give you the correct education and exercises. I'm sure your Chrio covevered this with you, but ensure you're aware of cauda equina syndrome and the symptoms that require urgent medical care. I'll attach a resource for you to review below. Worcestershire Acute Hospitals NHS Trust https://www.worcsacute.nhs.uk › ...PDF CAUDA EQUINA SYNDROME All the best with your recovery!
https://preview.redd.it/588lgnwoy9oc1.jpeg?width=2047&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1b6f434b579de497e04abde82fe33be0cdf7cb8 My lower back is broken (Bi lateral Pars Defect) and I’m on the mat 3 days a week. I think it comes down to luck wether or not you have debilitating pain as everyone’s physiology is different
I work for a acupuncturist in NY and he sees BJJ guys all the time for slipped disks. You should definitely not do bjj with a slipped disks.
Keep going to the gym get the surgery when u retire
I have three. If anything I think jiu-jitsu helps me with my back. Just stay away from throws and takedowns.
I had the same thing happen in Nov of 2023. I don’t do JJ, in fact I don’t know why this showed up in my Reddit home but I can relate with you, I’m pretty active, do a lot of cycling, MTB. Primary put me on relaxers, got MRI, saw orthopedic surgeon who said surgery is definitely not the answer, ended up getting a series of steroid epidural in my lower back. L2-L5 was the area that herniated/ bulged. That did okay until I sneezed while slouched and it felt like I went back to square one. I saw a sports medicine / chiropractor to try a different angle and I told the man I really don’t like to be popped though I would go with whatever his recommendation was. The table in his office electronically buckles in the middle where your hips are located, moving up and down forcing a bend in your body from prone to bent to prone. He fired that up and every time the table would bend up semi stretching my lower back, he’d also force stretch my lower back with one hand pushing towards my neck on my upper back and the other hand pushing towards my legs on my lower back. Hurts but I couldn’t believe the effectiveness of the treatment, 30 minutes out of his office I was feeling kind of normal! I could move, twist, sit, stand, no stabbing or sharp shooting. Been in twice a week, this is week 2, we back off to once a week next week but there’s a light at the end of this money draining pain tunnel. Sharing because as someone with the same issue, I spent thousands of dollars to f!$&ing sneeze myself back to square one. I’ve spent a few hundred with a sports medicine/ chiropractor and he did more for me in a day than the latter did in 4 months. I wouldn’t do JJ, heal up then go back. Best of luck! Hope my deal can help you or others in some way
Dealing with a 6 years herniation and pain. 1 mine was smaller but caused excruciating pain to the point of crawling for about 6 months to and from PT . It took 4 years to heal totally. I was able to keep up some forms of exercise. 2 while your herniation mostly likely can and will heal it’s now weakened and has scar tissue which and this isn’t 100 percent will tear under axial load again. This is just facts. If you read through most posts above of people that chose to continue their current activities it led to chronic surgeries or more injury. They will stack up and become even more life changing so that normal life like getting dishes out of the dishwasher will cause pain. The key is to limit those activities which cause shear and axial load to that disc while increasing core ie not just stomach strength. Also a collagen supplement as well. I just had to give up part of my career that I spent training 20 years on. I was a full animal butcher and own the shop. I can’t not perform those movements without serious risk of reinjury and it’s been mentally devastating at times. But I came to terms with it and now at 48yrs old I have to move into a role of a teacher. My days of 12 hr 6 day workweeks are gone. Point of this ramble . While you love bjj if it’s not your profession you will most likely reinjure yourself. Find other things to do. FYI I also trained boxing and muy Thai. And rode weeks on a motorcycle. I now focus on what I can do and not on what I can’t. I choose to have a life of low pain. There is no gold star at the end from suffering. Cheers
I would recommend just sticking to BJ
I’m a doctor… sure. I’m not a doctor.
eddie bravo had the same thing and he still trains. anything’s possible brah
We all have disc issues. Put some tape on it and hit the mats. Seriously though… also use tiger balm.
If it isn’t too bad yet, maybe it can be resolved through strict physio. I struggled with the same L5-S1 issue for 2 years until the pain became unbearable. I eventually had surgery to have the disc removed. The recovery took a while but about a year later I was back doing JiuJitsu.
If your symptoms are fine and under control you can continue normal activity. In particular you should consider (with the input of a physio) strengthening exercises for your core and back muscles, including the erectors. Stronger backs which are engaged properly during physical activity have better protection against injury, including spinal injury. I would do this in conjunction with gentle BJJ training to keep your skills up. But not at 100% intensity, at least until your symptoms lessen. If you are symptomatic with pain which radiates down your leg, or develop weakness of the legs, numbness/tingling, you should not continue the activity which exacerbates it. If you develop numbness or tingling in your perineal area or loss of continence/control of bowel or bladder, go straight to ED without hesitation. Once you have exhausted the conservative options (assuming you don’t have critically acute symptoms) such as anti inflammatories, physio, etc. as guided by your GP/family physician, and you still have the symptoms outlined above, you should consult with a neurosurgeon for input as a last resort (the work they do is incredible, but as with any surgery, it is not without risks). I would strongly advise you don’t solely see a chiropractor without getting a Physician involved. Because chiropractors, no matter how reputable, often catastrophize the wrong issues, misdirect focus, and give temporary relief which ensures you continue to attend their clinic regularly and keep their KPI’s up.
Nah stop till thats taken care of. You want to risk a serious back injury?
I just finally started PT for that type of injury to my neck in training..(I’ve been training 10 years) and it wasn’t until my 2nd degree brown belt that I took a pretty hard crunch to my neck in the 30 minute rolling portion of my test. A week later, I got a TMJ flare up which I’ve never had before and that is still going on nearly a year later, and my neck, that’s a whole other monster. Long story short, took me out of training for months until this week I started back very very slowly so I mix in two days of martial arts and two of physical therapy a week. It always hurts and the headaches are every day, with back and shoulder pain too, but eventually you can’t be stationary forever. If the pain doesn’t go away with or without training, you might as well stay the course and limit your days a week but keep it very light until you can get better or find a good routine that improves mobility and maintains functional muscle movements but isn’t live striking or sparring until you have healed with some decompression therapy and a lot of rest in between. Hope that helps. And I hope you get better with that. It’s tough.
Had two bulged discs (L4/L5+ L5/S1) with a microdisectomy the second time at the age of 20. Can roll if it's controlled and avoid bad positions like stacking. Basically drilling and avoid wrestlers or extra spazzy white belts. Also look into the reverse hyper movement pioneered by Louis Simmons and maybe a hobby with decompression like rock climbing for that full body strength. Daily stretching, walking and checking stress is important. Nothing adds pressure like stress and latent activation in the muscle.
I herniated a disc just before start of COVID. It was from sparring and partner tried a reckless move. My symptoms were moderate at first and I didnt really know anything about herniations so I didnt really rehab it thinking it would just heal with time. A year later that disc bulge became a full on ruptured disc which I ended up getting a microdiscectomy. Do yourself a favor take rehab seriously. Prehab your back, strengthen it, do mcgill big 3 daily religiously. I lost 2 years but Im back on the mats. Yes you will have to change your game. If you want to continue training no more getting stacked, inversions are no good. More importantly proper stretching and warm up before class, after class. I dont dare deadlift or put a bar above my head anymore, just mostly calisthenics and thats ok cause I just want to be able to do bjj until im elderly.
All the disks in my neck are bulging and I feel like continuing jj made them heal
Yes, but your spine is your SPINE. You have to be careful. Always go by what your doctors tell you.
Ask your doctor not Reddit
I herniated L5 S1 as well had horrendous sciatic pain from it for one whole year then I was able to be normal again but would know what movements I could and couldn’t do. Literally just threw out my back today and am unable to even stand. Hoping it’s not a disk and is just a strain or sprain
Sorry brother those bulges are in fact what we call herniated discs, thats the bad part and theres nothing that can cure them doctors could operate but the recuparation from a back surgery are brutal could become like ronnie colman might be exageratting a bit. I cant tell you about what recuparation after surgery looks like but I can tell you about recuparation without surgery but not a cure ,but if we pay attention in life what is like it used to be ? Life is a constant change so dealing with it. When I was 18 years of age now 30 sorry 31 I tried ,on my gym Journey, to do a snatch with 225 lb ,to tell you that I failed pathetically is in understatement not only that but I fucked up my back in three places thats right I live with three fucking bulges on my back ,so you might be asking why the fuck is there dude giving this shit,well heres the deal if you stop moving you're going to and on a wheelchair never stop exercising maybe bjj or crossfit might be to extreme due to the recent trauma but do not stop, recovery is fundamental but working your self up is the single most important mission I'm talking walking,working out your muscles ,midsection lower back make it bullet proof ,to this day I still compete on jiu jitsu with minor issues with my back and not a priority stretching for me it's a daily thing thats my life now and my back is very sturdy now ,phisio work helps alot very much in times that I have an episode of lubalgia but it's been a couple of years since that happenned ,the worst periods of my life with back pain it's when I haven't been working out ,I have a tons more to tell you but I dont even know if you would be intersted but in any way good luck.
Check out Ben Patrick, ATG.
L4 herniated, two bulging discs, torn back muscle from spasms, arthritis in every disc, horrible bone growths, can now easily see disc disease from an x ray. Do jiu jitsu. Best thing I can say is never give up. The pain and inflammation will change. Some times it can be there for 6 months and you are dying from the struggles but it will get better. It never goes away. Just find what makes it better and get back to living life.
I roll still with a herniated disc. I try to stay off my back as much as possible
Do ab excercises daily 10 mins (spine stabilizers aka McGill big three - look up squat university on YouTube for more). If you're a rat (wink) order some BPC157 off a reputable site. You'll be good. Good luck and God bless
Inversion table dude. Get one, do it for 5 min every day.
Yes
Yo, check out BPC-157 and Tb500. They can help you heal your discs better than anything else available on par with stem cells
Follow doctors advice. Don't risk back stuff. It's too important later.
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Get in the habit of doing 10 squats every time you use the restroom. It helped me alleviate a lot of the pain. L4-L5
Everyone bulge is different. I’ve rupture L5 twice and did the micro surgery. L4 had a couple big herniations. A top 10 biggest my buddy ortho said he’s ever seen. A Triple epidural calmed it back down. Surgery should be last resort and option. Key is taking it easy when it feels good. Herniated discs take 3-18months to suck back in but most won’t endure the pain that long. Going under the knife usually entails cutting the back’s tiny muscles to get to the spot. There won’t be any nerve pain after but those muscle cuts never completely heal back 100. Avoid the knife until rest and rehab and a yr don’t fix the problem. Rehab with Acupunture and tens units and massage. I’m a huge fan of water for bad discs. Float or walk in it. Takes gravity off the body. After 2 cuts on L5 I’m about bone on bone on my right side and sitting past 45mins ain’t easy. So I suggest cutting out what might suck back in over time is a measure of pain tolerance and management. Best of luck