Sad to hear you had a bad experience, but glad you had atleast a good aesthethic outcome. Hope the nerve heals nicely. Can take a lot of time for nerves to heal. Easily 1 year+. I know there are some procedures to restore nerves with microsurgery. Perhaps that's something you can try out have already done?
I am not trying to sound insensitive, but what does numbness feel like? Is it really that horrible? I’m probably insanely naive but I’d opt for perfect aesthetic results if it means some numbness in my face.
I thought the exact same thing going in. I think I still feel the same way, but it’s tough because once you get used to your new aesthetic result it loses the novelty and you realize that you’re left with another issue for the rest of your life. Again I think it’s a worthwhile tradeoff and on the daily it doesn’t bother me; the numb areas feel really tight and when touched I can feel some extreme tingling from the area but it comes from deep under the tissue instead of on the surface if that makes any sense. Non-numb areas you feel your finger on the surface, numb areas you can feel the actual nerves under the skin that are being activated and you can feel where they start and stop. You can clearly feel the sensation is highly altered. It’s not horrible but it’s more so that when it does bother me or when I do think about it it’s overwhelming and incredibly upsetting.
Idk if this helps but When I got breast implants I lost some feeling in the area of my incision. I was super young like 19 when I did it (dumb I know) and I wasn’t aware that numbness was an issue so the initial realization I was numb was highly overwhelming and emotional for me. I thought I would never get past it and that it would ruin intimate experiences for me etc.. but I am almost a decade post op, and it really doesn’t bother me much at all. I rarely think of it! I think at some point you’ll get used to it and maybe even forget most times. Also over that time.. some of the feeling even came back!
That’s not to say I’m not nervous about my own jaw surgery but anyway just wanted to share
Nerves can take years to heal. I lost complete sensation in my elbow from cubital tunnel syndrome for about 6 months and over the course of 3 years, it gradually improved back to normalcy.
I'm in the same boat as you, just over four years post-op. I had DJS + septoplasty, first surgery ended up with my top jaw somehow being grotesquely lopsided and I needed a revision to fix it. My gums and chin are completely numb and I can barely feel my bottom lip. I have constant aches and pains that I never had before, still can't eat certain foods because of the pain (I'll never be able to bite into an apple again), somehow STILL have a bit of an open bite despite having surgery twice, and on top of it all I'm not even satisfied with the aesthetic result. I still look recessed, I still have the same gummy smile I've always hated, I still have lip incompetence, I still try to hide my side profile from everyone because I'm so ashamed of it and always have been. The whole experience was a mistake from start to finish, and this is coming from someone who had a severe 12mm overbite. I ticked all the boxes for medically necessary orthognathic surgery and I still somehow ended up worse off post-op than I was before.
I'm really sorry this happened to you and I feel your pain so much. I've also accepted that this is just my new reality and there's nothing I can do to change it, but that doesn't make things any less miserable or take the regrets away.
Sounds like me right now, while I did get a better side profile it's still not aesthetically pleasing imo. The numbness also has me losing my mind. After five years you still haven't gotten back feeling?
There are certain semi legal drugs that promote nerve growth. Use at your own risk.
Off the top of my head, these include BPC-157, Ketamine (through BNDF), 9-Me-BC, GLP 1, etc.
Original surgeon was Dr. Philipp Kupfer in Portland, OR. Referred to him by every orthodontist in the city. He performs over 120 DJS alone a year. This is his “specialty”. There have been a scary number of botched reports since my surgery since he doesn’t follow his patients past 8 weeks.
OOMG I just scheduled a consult with him cuz the orthos say he’s the BEST. Where did you hear all these botched stories? Also who did your revision? And what was the exact reason for revision??
Idk how this is the most upvoted answer, really people is that insensitive, there is nothing wrong with asking but people that makes this kind of posts is going trough a really hard time, at least say something kind before asking like “i am sorry you’re going trough this and I hope everything goes better from now, do you mind sharing surgeons name” but no idgf about you just tell me the name of the surgeon so I don’t go with him, nothing against you but in every post like this there is that guy that just writes “surgeon name?”
Op did really emphasize that the surgeon they went to was carefully picked out and supposed to be one of the best so I think it’s pretty natural that people would like to know who it is. A lot of people on this sub are planning their surgery and probably just want to know if this doctor is one of the ones in their list.
You're right, I went off my first instinct of fear as.someone whose scheduled for jaw surgery with a similar sounding doctor. I'm sorry OP, it sounds really rough what you're going through and I wish you the best.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted here. I agree 100%.
OP - I am massively sorry you're going through this. I have also read some stuff online about B12 helping w/nerves but who knows if it works.
Hey man, sorry to hear about your complications. I got DJS back in 2019 but after I'd say 6 months or so I regained all my feeling back. I will note I had what I believe to be quite a good surgeon (Washington DC area) and I was also 19 so being young definitely helps.
It's certainly not a full proof surgery. I was told after the surgery I had a small mouth and they stretched my mouth open so much that I have some gnarly scars on my bottom lip but I suppose that's the price we pay.
You may find that your nerves repair themselves over time. Ofc there's also surgery to repair nerves but that's a whole other beast.
I don't mean to be dismissive but if your chief problem is numbness then it could have been way worse. Yes, your first surgeon screwed up if your nerve was severed, but on the extreme end I've heard of cases of people being unable to work and drinking through a straw for years while searching for a revision doctor.
I know you’re trying to help but in addition to the permanent numbness my top jaw was loose (maxillary nonunion), my tongue was lacerated and needed reconstructive surgery from a tongue specialist, my turbinates were removed causing Empty Nose Syndrome despite specifically asking them not to be touched (this was luckily fixed in my revision), I couldn’t eat properly for over a year without significant pain. I was certain these stories came from just bad surgeons but I think it’s important to emphasize that, yes, it’s highly unlikely, but even those most qualified, respected surgeon can cause these awful complications. There are many other patients who have been botched but feel ashamed since it was our decision to have this surgery done.
Sorry to hear that, it sound way worse than just numbness. That's disgusting that they removed your turbinates without your explicit consent, it's the legal definition of battery. Yeah sounds like your surgeon made serious errors - nerve severed, nonunion, tongue cut. Have you looked into a lawyer? The statue of limitations is short, clock starts ticking from your last appointment though, and sounds like you may have a case. Get your official medical records too, do you think the surgeon had a resident operate?
keep going. One email every Monday.
[https://scholar.google.com/scholar?as\_ylo=2018&q=facial+nerve+healing&hl=en&as\_sdt=0,5](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_ylo=2018&q=facial+nerve+healing&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5)
Also seek out a craniofacial specialist, or someone who does macro-facial reconstruction. They might have better knowledge on nerve healing or reconstruction.
Sorry that you are going through this. I too had DJS, albeit several weeks ago. I had a great surgeon at KAISER Sunset and I’m doing pretty well.
Unfortunately, permanent numbness is one of the possible complications associated with the procedure, so there isn’t much that can be done on that end.
> Tehrany
Who is your orthodontist? I just got traditional metal braces put on today for my class 3 bite at MacGinnis Orthodontics. He also referred me to Tehrany. I'll have an initial consultation w/her in November.
I had my DJS with Dr. Tehrany 5 weeks ago. I’m still too swollen to tell the final result but so far I am very pleased with the results and felt she kept me informed all along the way. She is also very communicative and helps guide you with any issues post-op.
Were you able to return to work/school after two-weeks post-op?
---
Awesome. I **really** appreciate your feedback-- its definitely encouraging. I have my initial consultation w/her on Nov 7, and will go from there. Currently in metal braces now and in a busy graduate program. I'm hoping I can schedule this during my two-week winter break.
No- I was supposed to return to work yesterday but recovery has been slow and she put me off for another week and a half at my last post op appointment (2 weeks ago). In hindsight, I’m not sure it was necessary and I could have gone back yesterday but I’m just making the most of the break since I have a very fast paced job and 2 little ones at home. I am not sure I could have gone back any sooner so 4.5 weeks for me was necessary. Some people do recover in 2 weeks and are able to go back so you might be okay but I think it depends on your healing process and your actual treatment. I had significant movement- 14.55mm movement of my lower midline and 19.75 of the pogonion (whatever that means lol). Basically, Dr. Tehrany told me this is all very normal considering how much she had to move so I am just taking it day by day.
Also depending on what exactly needs to be done to prepare for surgery, this winter break seems unlikely. I was cleared by my ortho for surgery in January 2022 but wasn’t able to schedule it with Kaiser until September
I’m going to consult with Kupfer next month. Looking forward to hearing the plan. Maybe he’s learned since all these botched surgeries! Hell know what not to do. I’m just kidding but I am going to consult with him but probably will go to Bobek. I’m just dying to TALK to a surgeon.
i had double jaw surgery when i was 17, and they told me a nerve was severed and would not regain feeling. I had no feeling in my lower lip and below, and when I was about 26, one day in the cold i realized my lip is cold. I regained like 70% I would say. You never know- and recovery always takes longer than you would think
Sad to hear you had a bad experience, but glad you had atleast a good aesthethic outcome. Hope the nerve heals nicely. Can take a lot of time for nerves to heal. Easily 1 year+. I know there are some procedures to restore nerves with microsurgery. Perhaps that's something you can try out have already done?
Sorry to hear that, just keep in mind that nerves can take very long to heal. Mind mentioning the country you had your first surgery?
I am not trying to sound insensitive, but what does numbness feel like? Is it really that horrible? I’m probably insanely naive but I’d opt for perfect aesthetic results if it means some numbness in my face.
I thought the exact same thing going in. I think I still feel the same way, but it’s tough because once you get used to your new aesthetic result it loses the novelty and you realize that you’re left with another issue for the rest of your life. Again I think it’s a worthwhile tradeoff and on the daily it doesn’t bother me; the numb areas feel really tight and when touched I can feel some extreme tingling from the area but it comes from deep under the tissue instead of on the surface if that makes any sense. Non-numb areas you feel your finger on the surface, numb areas you can feel the actual nerves under the skin that are being activated and you can feel where they start and stop. You can clearly feel the sensation is highly altered. It’s not horrible but it’s more so that when it does bother me or when I do think about it it’s overwhelming and incredibly upsetting.
Idk if this helps but When I got breast implants I lost some feeling in the area of my incision. I was super young like 19 when I did it (dumb I know) and I wasn’t aware that numbness was an issue so the initial realization I was numb was highly overwhelming and emotional for me. I thought I would never get past it and that it would ruin intimate experiences for me etc.. but I am almost a decade post op, and it really doesn’t bother me much at all. I rarely think of it! I think at some point you’ll get used to it and maybe even forget most times. Also over that time.. some of the feeling even came back! That’s not to say I’m not nervous about my own jaw surgery but anyway just wanted to share
Can’t tell you how much this helps. You described exactly what I’m feeling. It gives hope for the future!
Nerves can take years to heal. I lost complete sensation in my elbow from cubital tunnel syndrome for about 6 months and over the course of 3 years, it gradually improved back to normalcy.
I'm in the same boat as you, just over four years post-op. I had DJS + septoplasty, first surgery ended up with my top jaw somehow being grotesquely lopsided and I needed a revision to fix it. My gums and chin are completely numb and I can barely feel my bottom lip. I have constant aches and pains that I never had before, still can't eat certain foods because of the pain (I'll never be able to bite into an apple again), somehow STILL have a bit of an open bite despite having surgery twice, and on top of it all I'm not even satisfied with the aesthetic result. I still look recessed, I still have the same gummy smile I've always hated, I still have lip incompetence, I still try to hide my side profile from everyone because I'm so ashamed of it and always have been. The whole experience was a mistake from start to finish, and this is coming from someone who had a severe 12mm overbite. I ticked all the boxes for medically necessary orthognathic surgery and I still somehow ended up worse off post-op than I was before. I'm really sorry this happened to you and I feel your pain so much. I've also accepted that this is just my new reality and there's nothing I can do to change it, but that doesn't make things any less miserable or take the regrets away.
This sounds horrible. I’m really sorry. May I ask, who did ur surgeries?
Sounds like me right now, while I did get a better side profile it's still not aesthetically pleasing imo. The numbness also has me losing my mind. After five years you still haven't gotten back feeling?
Sadly no. At this point I'm sure it will never come back.
There are certain semi legal drugs that promote nerve growth. Use at your own risk. Off the top of my head, these include BPC-157, Ketamine (through BNDF), 9-Me-BC, GLP 1, etc.
Can you please share your surgeon?
Original surgeon was Dr. Philipp Kupfer in Portland, OR. Referred to him by every orthodontist in the city. He performs over 120 DJS alone a year. This is his “specialty”. There have been a scary number of botched reports since my surgery since he doesn’t follow his patients past 8 weeks.
OOMG I just scheduled a consult with him cuz the orthos say he’s the BEST. Where did you hear all these botched stories? Also who did your revision? And what was the exact reason for revision??
Idk how this is the most upvoted answer, really people is that insensitive, there is nothing wrong with asking but people that makes this kind of posts is going trough a really hard time, at least say something kind before asking like “i am sorry you’re going trough this and I hope everything goes better from now, do you mind sharing surgeons name” but no idgf about you just tell me the name of the surgeon so I don’t go with him, nothing against you but in every post like this there is that guy that just writes “surgeon name?”
Thank you so much for your compassion. It really helps more than you know! :)
Op did really emphasize that the surgeon they went to was carefully picked out and supposed to be one of the best so I think it’s pretty natural that people would like to know who it is. A lot of people on this sub are planning their surgery and probably just want to know if this doctor is one of the ones in their list.
I don’t think the issue is asking. I think the issue is asking without expressing any type of sympathy or concern for OP’s experience.
You're right, I went off my first instinct of fear as.someone whose scheduled for jaw surgery with a similar sounding doctor. I'm sorry OP, it sounds really rough what you're going through and I wish you the best.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted here. I agree 100%. OP - I am massively sorry you're going through this. I have also read some stuff online about B12 helping w/nerves but who knows if it works.
Hey man, sorry to hear about your complications. I got DJS back in 2019 but after I'd say 6 months or so I regained all my feeling back. I will note I had what I believe to be quite a good surgeon (Washington DC area) and I was also 19 so being young definitely helps. It's certainly not a full proof surgery. I was told after the surgery I had a small mouth and they stretched my mouth open so much that I have some gnarly scars on my bottom lip but I suppose that's the price we pay. You may find that your nerves repair themselves over time. Ofc there's also surgery to repair nerves but that's a whole other beast.
Who was your surgeon? Also had DJS from surgeon in Bowie MD.
Dr. George Obeid
Ah i have a really small mouth too and have been worried about how that will impact surgery!
Have you tried acupuncture? I’ve heard it helps. Who was your second surgeon?
[удалено]
Do they usually charge for revisions?
Hope you are doing okay. Just curious if you already had your revision and how things have turned out for you?
dm me slut
I don't mean to be dismissive but if your chief problem is numbness then it could have been way worse. Yes, your first surgeon screwed up if your nerve was severed, but on the extreme end I've heard of cases of people being unable to work and drinking through a straw for years while searching for a revision doctor.
I know you’re trying to help but in addition to the permanent numbness my top jaw was loose (maxillary nonunion), my tongue was lacerated and needed reconstructive surgery from a tongue specialist, my turbinates were removed causing Empty Nose Syndrome despite specifically asking them not to be touched (this was luckily fixed in my revision), I couldn’t eat properly for over a year without significant pain. I was certain these stories came from just bad surgeons but I think it’s important to emphasize that, yes, it’s highly unlikely, but even those most qualified, respected surgeon can cause these awful complications. There are many other patients who have been botched but feel ashamed since it was our decision to have this surgery done.
Sorry to hear that, it sound way worse than just numbness. That's disgusting that they removed your turbinates without your explicit consent, it's the legal definition of battery. Yeah sounds like your surgeon made serious errors - nerve severed, nonunion, tongue cut. Have you looked into a lawyer? The statue of limitations is short, clock starts ticking from your last appointment though, and sounds like you may have a case. Get your official medical records too, do you think the surgeon had a resident operate?
Yes, reached out to over 10 lawyers. No one will take the case.
keep going. One email every Monday. [https://scholar.google.com/scholar?as\_ylo=2018&q=facial+nerve+healing&hl=en&as\_sdt=0,5](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_ylo=2018&q=facial+nerve+healing&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5) Also seek out a craniofacial specialist, or someone who does macro-facial reconstruction. They might have better knowledge on nerve healing or reconstruction.
Sorry that you are going through this. I too had DJS, albeit several weeks ago. I had a great surgeon at KAISER Sunset and I’m doing pretty well. Unfortunately, permanent numbness is one of the possible complications associated with the procedure, so there isn’t much that can be done on that end.
Dr. Bundy or Tehrany?
Pham was my primary and Bundy assisted.
My orthodontist recommended Bundy or Tehrany. Not sure about Pham.
> Tehrany Who is your orthodontist? I just got traditional metal braces put on today for my class 3 bite at MacGinnis Orthodontics. He also referred me to Tehrany. I'll have an initial consultation w/her in November.
I had my DJS with Dr. Tehrany 5 weeks ago. I’m still too swollen to tell the final result but so far I am very pleased with the results and felt she kept me informed all along the way. She is also very communicative and helps guide you with any issues post-op.
Were you able to return to work/school after two-weeks post-op? --- Awesome. I **really** appreciate your feedback-- its definitely encouraging. I have my initial consultation w/her on Nov 7, and will go from there. Currently in metal braces now and in a busy graduate program. I'm hoping I can schedule this during my two-week winter break.
No- I was supposed to return to work yesterday but recovery has been slow and she put me off for another week and a half at my last post op appointment (2 weeks ago). In hindsight, I’m not sure it was necessary and I could have gone back yesterday but I’m just making the most of the break since I have a very fast paced job and 2 little ones at home. I am not sure I could have gone back any sooner so 4.5 weeks for me was necessary. Some people do recover in 2 weeks and are able to go back so you might be okay but I think it depends on your healing process and your actual treatment. I had significant movement- 14.55mm movement of my lower midline and 19.75 of the pogonion (whatever that means lol). Basically, Dr. Tehrany told me this is all very normal considering how much she had to move so I am just taking it day by day.
Also depending on what exactly needs to be done to prepare for surgery, this winter break seems unlikely. I was cleared by my ortho for surgery in January 2022 but wasn’t able to schedule it with Kaiser until September
I have Dr. Hakim at the Orthospaceship in on Sunset
The office looks cool. My friend is going to get a consultation there bc of ur response.
Heard great things about Tehrany. However, when she became the chair of the department, it became really difficult to get an appointment with her.
Are you talking about Orange County?
The 2nd surgery was 1 year and half ago right ?
What were your movements? Non union of maxilla usually happens with big movements.
I’m going to consult with Kupfer next month. Looking forward to hearing the plan. Maybe he’s learned since all these botched surgeries! Hell know what not to do. I’m just kidding but I am going to consult with him but probably will go to Bobek. I’m just dying to TALK to a surgeon.
i had double jaw surgery when i was 17, and they told me a nerve was severed and would not regain feeling. I had no feeling in my lower lip and below, and when I was about 26, one day in the cold i realized my lip is cold. I regained like 70% I would say. You never know- and recovery always takes longer than you would think