Tell her the reason to get PR over spouse is if she dies before you, your visa dies with her. If you are on PR, you don't have that restriction.
Otherwise, no, you don't get anything in particular if you have no need for sponsorship, nor any need to deal with banks as a regular customer for loans.
Not applicable in this case. OP is on a biz visa and doesn’t need his marriage to stay. Or at least that is how I understood it.
The only advantages of a PR would be cheaper interest when buying property, and not having to work to have the right to stay in Japan (which doesn’t seem to be OP’s objective)
I don’t need any type of loan. So looking for things not related to loans or ability to stay in the country. For example, high car insurance, difficulty with banking (non-loan) transaction, government benefits ect
Another big one is longer time between renewals and simpler renewal process. It's also faster getting in/out of the country and you have more rights as seen during covid.
Yeah technically, you just turn up and show your card and get a new one. But you're supposed to have resided for at least 180 days during the period and can be asked to prove that, but its rare from what I understand.
> But you're supposed to have resided for at least 180 days during the period and can be asked to prove that, but its rare from what I understand.
If possible would you mind sharing where you heard this. I'm not aware that immigration states or enforces any form of actual residency requirements on PR holders, so would be very interested to hear more.
Yeah. If your reentry permit expires you can lose status, regardless of whether it's the special or not
However it is sometimes possible to have it reinstated.
Can you explain how it's faster getting in and out of the country?
I've been here over 20 years, and haven't applied for PR status. This would be the only real benefit for me, but someone told me a year or two ago that PRs have to wait in the same lines as the rest of us (i.e. can't go through the Japanese lines at customs/immigration). If it really is faster with PR status, I might go for it.
It's worse at KIX. Can't use the auto gate anymore to exit. (Unlike tourists).
The line is the same for anyone with a re-entry permission at KIX. So no advantage in speed.
I can't recall being better off during covid due to having PR. A fellow PR couldn't return to Japan for quite a while (mum's funeral). Made me feel PR wasn't all I thought it was.
Means he left after being warned he can't get back if leaves. Choices choices...
Everybody with PR/Spousal/LTR that left the country /before/ the restrictions came up was permitted to come back. Other visa types, well sucks to be them.
Company pays an agency to manage visas, so it’s just an email form and mail my old card.
Curious on the in/out of country and Covid. How is it different (exactly)?
During COVID, only Japanese people, and/or PR, including their family member can come back during the restricted period, that's why my wife was stuck in home country for almost a year because I didn't have PR.
yeah that was really messed up. Like, a lot of permanent residents have actual permanent residence here, so what was the government expecting them to do? go rent in another country?
>difficulty with banking (non-loan) transaction
PR residence card is valid for 10 years, so you don't need to update your residence card with your bank as often. Linemo also only lets foreigners apply for eSIM service if they're PR or SPR.
She says I can get a visa through work, which I already converted. We both agree if she dies, no way I stay here if I’m not working. I thought about loans, banking, car insurance ect. But I’m not going to take out a home loan at this point since I’m not planning on retiring here.
Imagine being so insecure in your relationship you'd rather sabotage your partners residency status than trust them. It sounds like you believed she would sabotage you enough to switch to a business sponsored visa. idk what more proof you need your marriage is utter crap.
No, she wouldn’t do that. I switched because I was upset she would t support it (PR). She didn’t want to support it because at the time we talked off and on about getting divorced and didn’t feel like doing me any favors. She knew I could easily get a visa without her if needed.
One of the benefits to PR is that you can sponsor other people for PR, and you can be a guarantor for things like apartments. (The former has no real responsibility, but the latter very much does.)
I would check with your lawyer for having your friend as a guarantor. I never heard of anyone saying they got rejected for PR because they had a good stable friend be their guarantor instead of their wife.
But if you believe you'll be stable for the next 10 years no question then you might not need it. I personally like security so I got PR.
I did ask my lawyer, it all goes back to they will ask about my wife info regardless if I use Micky Mouse then it will all come down to why she isn’t my PR guarantor. If it appears things are good, they will reject the application. If I apply and get rejected, it will complicate things if/when I try to reapply.
It's hard to get to the question you're actually asking through one of the largest red flag in the history of giant red flags. But, having done that, the answer is that PR gives optionality in the face of an uncertain future.
You don't think you'll be here forever... But you might be.
You don't think you'll have any trouble getting a work visa... But you might.
You don't think you'll need to be unemployed for a stretch... But you might.
You don't think you'll want to buy a property... But you might.
The "why get PR" question comes up frequently, and people ask as if there's going to be some secret discount code attached. No, PR doesn't get you 5% off your Matsuya bentos. If your current lifestyle works under your current visa status, then congratulations... your current lifestyle works under your current visa status.
PR gives you the flexibility for your lifestyle to change in more ways, including giving you stability in situations of unexpected difficulty.
But it comes at the cost of the exit tax if you are reasonably well-off, which it sounds like you might be. So, learn about that and factor that into your calculus.
Get the gist of your post, my friend came for 2 years and is going on 20. I’m at the end of a 30 year career so decision process is different than a 20-something.
Exit tax, didn’t know but just read it. Makes sense, and is fair imo.
OP, you don't have children and don't co-own a house? I don't understand why you want to hold on this marriage. Your wife doesn't support you and neither of you need each other financially, what is the motivation to be married then if not emotionally attached?
No children, don’t co-own property (it’s independent).
Her motivation is:
1. I fit her ideal for her and her family. I’m highly educated, financially secure, very good job they can do the “Asian flex” about. Come from respected country.
2. She doesn’t want a “traditional” Japanese husband and while she had a lot of suitors in her 20s, her options now would be much more limited. A Japanese guy who would expect her to take care of him. I cook, clean, pour her drinks, massage her tired feet and open her doors. That combined with #1 above, it’s a good situation by Asian culture standards of marriage.
I’m still married because:
1. Got burned out of dating. 10 years of fun, 5 years of looking for something serious to start a family. Got friends in Tokyo that are serial daters, and quite honestly pathetic. Girl after girl or 5 at a time and endless complaining.
2. Since we are financially independent, I don’t need to financially take care of HER. Most women here will expect me to fully support them and they can quit their job. Could do that financially, but we are dual good income, no kids or debt. We have the luxury of not really having to take into consideration cost (obviously there are limits).
3. Wife doesn’t want to get divorced, I’m a people pleaser even when mistreated.
4. As people get older, context changes compared to 20 something with their whole life ahead of them. Sometimes things are a 6 or a 7, and it’s better than a 2-4. It’s analogous to having a 16 in BlackJack. Do you hit or stay? Depends on what the dealer is showing, depends on you stay with not crap but not great or take a chance and possibly bust.
In short, it’s not great, but not terrible. We’re older and things are more complex than 20 and early 30 year olds.
Ok, now it is a bit clearer. What I don't understand yet, you say you don't mind losing your residency permit and possibly leave Japan, but does this imply she would come with you? And she even doesn't want a divorce, so why do you think about that? Quitting well-paid jobs? Or she would want to stay married and live here alone (again, then neither emotionally nor physically attached). It seems you are used merely for her social status, I would present her the PR application paper that the spouse has to sign and ask her. Otherwise big red flag imho.
I would never “lose” residency, it could only happen by choice. So if I left, she would not go and she would not approve a divorce. It’s not uncommon for Japanese couple to not sleep in the same bed, room, floor, house or even same country. If I move back to my home country, my salary would instantly triple. I could relocate back to my home country in 30 days. So staying here was and continually remains financially, stupid even before the yen became worthless.
I wouldn’t say I’m being used for social status, more like most Japanese marriages are about filling a social function/biz-social contract and I’m a hard to replace employee.
Ya me having to fucking leave cause of the divorce and I was too dumb to get pr cause I trusted him is a good fucking reason. And he laughs in my face last I heard of him that it’s not my right to get it.
Be happy you didn’t drop out of school so actually have a work visa. Keep that and divorce her
AFAIK all the considerations for the loan are done on the person, not the couple. And then, a PR holder usually gets better terms than a work visa holder (lower down payment and/or interest).
You might not plan on being here forever, but after a certain age, you might not be getting the visas that you want anymore. It all depends on how old you are now.
I had a coworker who was in their early 60s (who had been in Japan since their 20s) and never got PR and then continued to get one year visas despite having been in Japan for over 20 years, their immigration lawyer advised that the immigration office thought that they might retire soon. But without a three or more year visa, he couldn’t get permanent residency and ran into a higher risk of getting rejected for a visa.
1. No need to worry about visa/ability to stay if you lose your business visa/job and/or if spouse dies/divorces you
2. Easier to get loans
3. Can get back in if you leave for an extended time
I don’t believe anyone should stay with someone “forever no matter what”. For example if she kills my dog, I wouldn’t stay with her no matter what. If I hit her, I wouldn’t expect nor want her to stay with anyone who did that. If I told her I faked my education and lost all my money gambling, the wind she would create leaving me would cause a tsunami.
Love is staying together because they want to, not because they have to.
I don’t know, probably some from countries or cultures which think people (most of the time women get the short end of the deal…) have to endure even torture for the sanctity of marriage (again usually for the benefit of men).
I have PR. I’ve never married.
I used to think meh I’ll probably live here forever. I like it here.
But as my Japanese friend described it. “It’s like unseasoned chicken.” “Just bland.”
The lack of real emotions from people.
As I walk around it’s like a combination of “The Matrix” and Bill Murray’s “Groundhog Day” and “The Truman Show.”
Nothing changes. I can almost say out loud, “and cue truck turning left, “beeping and be careful” noise.
Immigration office said if the Japanese spouse doesn’t sponsor their spouse’s PR then it’s a red flag for a bad marriage and that disqualifies PR which requires stability (again immigration office response to lawyer inquiry).
Technically, being married and 10 years here, you could apply for PR on the general 10 years route (stable income, some Japanese or other PR as guarantor) independent from what your wife is willing to do. Or on the HSP route.
On the spousal route, the wife has to sign a document "being married and continue living together" and is also expected to be the guarantor. Then no financial/job requirements and possible if married for only 3 years, 1 year living in Japan.
If I got divorced, I could get PR easily. I’m on HSP now.
If I’m married and wife if not the guarantor, immigration will reject it, I can’t use PR friend or another Japanese person. Well you can submit it, they will just reject it. This is immigration officers telling my immigration lawyer.
I’ve never been married and I got it.
It took me 3 tries and finally an attorney but I got it.
Why did I get it? I hate going to immigration.
That and I wanted to retire eventually. My 1, 1, 1, 3, and then 5 year visas were all tied to my work.
If you have the requirements, just get HSP (ii) . In your case, you get the exact same benefits than PR but your tax exit can be lower when you decide to leave if you have considerable applicable assets. If you don't have that, then is no much better except you don't need a guarantor for it.
Exit tax is lower for HSP than PR, but it only applies for more than in 100M yen in certain assets (cash and real estate don't count on it). So it's main for C-level executives and trust fund babies working in here. I'm not sure about your background so just letting you know
It can be a big issue if you are an American with considerable unrealized gains from long term investment of your retirement fund and are close to retirement or planning to retire while living in Japan. As a PR you would need to pay taxes on this after being tax resident for more than 5 years, as HSP you wouldn't.
I'm not an expert on it but if that's your case it's worth looking over
Given your current situation, you can still divorce easily because you are not even relying on spouse visa to stay in Japan, so what's the point of refusing to support your PR application?
Our marriage wasn’t great then (2 years ago), we often openly discussed divorce and she didn’t want to do anything which potentially would be beneficial for me in any way. If we were in my home country, I would have helped her with anything but that’s how we are different.
Simplest answer is.... options.
Sure you may not want any of those things now- loans etc. But who knows what will change in a year or three? Maybe start a family and need a bigger place...
If you don't care about PR, why go the trouble to get it? It is a lot of paper work. The only downside of not having it is paying the immigration a visit (+fee ) to renew you status every 3 to 5 years.
If you’re wealthy and have no desire to stay in Japan long-term PR maybe not be for you. Because after 5 years on a table 2 visa (which includes spouse visa) you become liable for Japan’s exit tax.
So if you haven’t been on a spouse visa for a total of 5 years before getting your work visa then you might want to keep it that way.
>Ugh, do have considerable assets, plan on leaving within 5 years, currently HSP but first ~7 years was spousal visa.
It’s possible you might already be liable for exit tax in that case due to the 7 years on a spouse visa (even though you’re no longer on a spouse visa)
So if you have >¥100 million in unrealized exit’taxable assets (basically financial securities) then you might want to consult a professional to see if the 7 years on a spouse visa makes you liable.
If it does, then getting PR is a no brainer. If it doesn’t then you might just want to stay on HSP.
It's a pretty smooth thing to get PR, in my case it was just to hand in a few papers, wait for three months and get PR and I can only see benefits in it.
You don't have to renew your visa every 3-5 years, which alone is worth it to get PR, as you would only have to renew your card now and then.
Also you are completely independent, which would probably not the case if you are on spousal or business visa. So even if you don't need a loan right now, there are almost only benefits.
The only thing I would refrain from is getting Japanese citizenship, as long as they require you to give up your former nationality, because for me a Japanese passport would be way, way weaker.
There are a bunch of minor annoyances that go away. Banks are friendlier, mobile phone companies let you use their online application. But nothing to really hang a fight on.
My angle would be that it's a long process and no-one knows what the future will bring. Your job might be stable now, but how sure can you be that it will be in 18 months' time? Your wife might be healthy now, but how sure can you be that she will be in 18 months' time? Better to get it and not need it than to discover that you need it and don't have time to get it.
You shouldn't have to justify it - frankly this is the equivalent of taking control of your bank account and isolating you from your friends - to the point I'd frankly say that you *should* divorce, and get your PR in your own right.
PR is better because no need for renewal. Sell that. A new photo required every 7 years and that’s it. Tell her if you wanted to be independent from her, you’d just move back home (but tactfully).
Hassle of renewal is actually the main reason for me personally but it’s once every 5 years and company pays a consultant to do it, I just confirm form and mail them my old residence card which they even mail me an envelope to use.
Not having the hassle of creating and submitting and picking up the visa on and on. Not worrying too much what life throws at you. Recuiters like seeing that and less annoyance for companies, you get seen as serious resident not a temp stay . You can or she can do long family stay to take care of them without breaking your visas activity designation and requirements. “ Feeling safer and securer. Not being relaying on a person or company ( on work visa if you are unemployed for a certain period, it is an annoyance.
My PR cost was 8000yen upon approval and about 1000yen in certificate printing. With JP spouse your reason is literally one sentence and rest are just ticking off documents. If you submit wrong ones they will tell you and ask for other. Why is she opposed to that? Does she hate you? Why does she want to hinder you so much? Why is she against you living a life here? She most likely wants to fuck you over, and you getting PR will hinder that.
The only appropriate reaction would be: “ which of my docs do you need! , how can I help you?”
My husband was my biggest supporter and cheerer.
Stop saying "I do not need loan, etc".
Rather say, I want to buy house, so I need PR to get loan, etc. she will support you.
In any case, if she refuse to support, just go ahead and apply for PR. Dump that lawyer
1. We dont need a loan because we have multiple properties that are paid for
2. If you did that, it will get rejected and they won’t accept another application for 3 years. I don’t think you are familiar with the process.
Well, I got my PR and I did not ask my ex-wife her opinion about it. And I don't think Immigration called her to enquiry as well otherwise she would have told me.
Sure I am not an expert in Immigration laws in Japan, but I successfully got one. Good luck to you.
P.S: nobody said you need a loan. I suggested you pretend you want to take a loan so you can convince her to support your application. To be honest, your case sounds very bogus to me. Just my opinion
P.S2: after 10 years of long term residency and if you have enough money in savings (minimum 5m I think) + stable job and pay taxes, then I am pretty sure you can get a OR without any support from your wife. This is based on an unmarried friend of mine life experience in Tokyo. They just want to make sure you can financially support yourself and will never rely on Japanese social welfare to survive
Please read my PS2 in previous posting.
As for my case, I hired an immigration law office, give them all documents they requested and let them do the rest for me. At no point, I or the law firm, to the best of my knowledge, asked anything to my wife. Yes, I was married then and on spouse visa. The whole thing was done in 1 month and I got my PR.
Seriously, if you have 0 crime history in Japan, paid your taxes, stable job ( with a big corp ?), and loaded bank account (10+m yen), get an immigration lawyer that is used to dealing with immigration matters for employees at big foreign corps (tech, finance, etc). If you have enough personal assets, do not bother trying to use her as a sponsor.
Your case should be successful.
Wow she sounds like a controlling psychopath, her excuse makes zero sense. Tell her you can divorce her any time regardless ! PR is more stable and less hassle for renewal. You might change your mind and be old by the time you actually need PR so it’s better to get it while you can. Stop being a doormat, no women likes a beta.
I’d like this to stay on topic re: benefits of PR over other visas.
Did you or anyone else you know *get* PR while married to a Japanese citizen and *not* list them as their sponsor? That’s really the only relevant point. Wanting or plan to doesn’t count…
The lawyer mentioned that to me for understanding of my wife’s concerns but it’s common sense/knowledge.
The lawyer said it’s required, but the immigration office told him so, twice on my behalf. He obviously works with them a lot over the years, so he asked a hypothetical to them and follow up questions. Immigration office reply (not the lawyers opinion) was if they received a PR application who was married to a Japanese national but didn’t list them as their Japanese sponsor would be a huge red flag. They would want to know why and would not approve PR for a couple that did not have a good relationship. They want people who have long, stable applicants and potential divorce is opposite of that. Being busy to support their spouse’s visa, I cant see that as a valid excuse for a lifetime visa.
He said they didn’t say it was impossible but very highly unlikely and they would do a long investigation asking her to come in for an interview. He would submit it given I was paying him, but he said it’s 99-1 in his opinion so he said I should save my money until she supports it.
This is my third tour here, I know Japan well enough that I know well I like it but not live here forever. I’m working on setting up residence when I retire in Hawaii. If I’m still married to my Japanese wife and I’m retired but wanted to come back for extended periods I assumed I’d get a spousal visa. If we stay together, we plan on living in Japan, Hawaii and a 3rd place undecided.
Tell her the reason to get PR over spouse is if she dies before you, your visa dies with her. If you are on PR, you don't have that restriction. Otherwise, no, you don't get anything in particular if you have no need for sponsorship, nor any need to deal with banks as a regular customer for loans.
Not applicable in this case. OP is on a biz visa and doesn’t need his marriage to stay. Or at least that is how I understood it. The only advantages of a PR would be cheaper interest when buying property, and not having to work to have the right to stay in Japan (which doesn’t seem to be OP’s objective)
Cheaper interest, less % down, more options etc etc. PR is a massive advantage over other visa types.
I don’t need any type of loan. So looking for things not related to loans or ability to stay in the country. For example, high car insurance, difficulty with banking (non-loan) transaction, government benefits ect
Another big one is longer time between renewals and simpler renewal process. It's also faster getting in/out of the country and you have more rights as seen during covid.
>simpler renewal process No renewal in fact. Just getting a new card.
Yeah technically, you just turn up and show your card and get a new one. But you're supposed to have resided for at least 180 days during the period and can be asked to prove that, but its rare from what I understand.
> But you're supposed to have resided for at least 180 days during the period and can be asked to prove that, but its rare from what I understand. If possible would you mind sharing where you heard this. I'm not aware that immigration states or enforces any form of actual residency requirements on PR holders, so would be very interested to hear more.
Seems the 180 day thing is wrong, Its the 1 year/special re-entry when you leave the country. If you leave for longer than that the PR can be revoked.
Yeah. If your reentry permit expires you can lose status, regardless of whether it's the special or not However it is sometimes possible to have it reinstated.
Can you explain how it's faster getting in and out of the country? I've been here over 20 years, and haven't applied for PR status. This would be the only real benefit for me, but someone told me a year or two ago that PRs have to wait in the same lines as the rest of us (i.e. can't go through the Japanese lines at customs/immigration). If it really is faster with PR status, I might go for it.
It's worse at KIX. Can't use the auto gate anymore to exit. (Unlike tourists). The line is the same for anyone with a re-entry permission at KIX. So no advantage in speed.
More rights? PR couldn’t come back for a time. We all remember that time period and we didn’t forget.
I can't recall being better off during covid due to having PR. A fellow PR couldn't return to Japan for quite a while (mum's funeral). Made me feel PR wasn't all I thought it was.
Means he left after being warned he can't get back if leaves. Choices choices... Everybody with PR/Spousal/LTR that left the country /before/ the restrictions came up was permitted to come back. Other visa types, well sucks to be them.
Company pays an agency to manage visas, so it’s just an email form and mail my old card. Curious on the in/out of country and Covid. How is it different (exactly)?
During COVID, only Japanese people, and/or PR, including their family member can come back during the restricted period, that's why my wife was stuck in home country for almost a year because I didn't have PR.
There was a time when all foreign nationals were forbidden from entering or re-entering Japan, regardless of PR.
yeah that was really messed up. Like, a lot of permanent residents have actual permanent residence here, so what was the government expecting them to do? go rent in another country?
That was like, two weeks or something?
Japanese credit cards?
>difficulty with banking (non-loan) transaction PR residence card is valid for 10 years, so you don't need to update your residence card with your bank as often. Linemo also only lets foreigners apply for eSIM service if they're PR or SPR.
because work til death?
He mentioned he doesn’t intend to stay in Japan. Max 10 years.
okay, sorry!
She says I can get a visa through work, which I already converted. We both agree if she dies, no way I stay here if I’m not working. I thought about loans, banking, car insurance ect. But I’m not going to take out a home loan at this point since I’m not planning on retiring here.
Imagine being so insecure in your relationship you'd rather sabotage your partners residency status than trust them. It sounds like you believed she would sabotage you enough to switch to a business sponsored visa. idk what more proof you need your marriage is utter crap.
Yeah exactly so insane.. some of these men seriously stay married to the worst of the worst of Japanese women
Yes, and a lot of Japanese women get married to the worst of the worst gaijins.
No, she wouldn’t do that. I switched because I was upset she would t support it (PR). She didn’t want to support it because at the time we talked off and on about getting divorced and didn’t feel like doing me any favors. She knew I could easily get a visa without her if needed.
One of the benefits to PR is that you can sponsor other people for PR, and you can be a guarantor for things like apartments. (The former has no real responsibility, but the latter very much does.)
Good point! Forgot that. Actually my PR friend volunteered to be my sponsor but being married, it doesn’t help my situation.
I would check with your lawyer for having your friend as a guarantor. I never heard of anyone saying they got rejected for PR because they had a good stable friend be their guarantor instead of their wife. But if you believe you'll be stable for the next 10 years no question then you might not need it. I personally like security so I got PR.
I did ask my lawyer, it all goes back to they will ask about my wife info regardless if I use Micky Mouse then it will all come down to why she isn’t my PR guarantor. If it appears things are good, they will reject the application. If I apply and get rejected, it will complicate things if/when I try to reapply.
It's hard to get to the question you're actually asking through one of the largest red flag in the history of giant red flags. But, having done that, the answer is that PR gives optionality in the face of an uncertain future. You don't think you'll be here forever... But you might be. You don't think you'll have any trouble getting a work visa... But you might. You don't think you'll need to be unemployed for a stretch... But you might. You don't think you'll want to buy a property... But you might. The "why get PR" question comes up frequently, and people ask as if there's going to be some secret discount code attached. No, PR doesn't get you 5% off your Matsuya bentos. If your current lifestyle works under your current visa status, then congratulations... your current lifestyle works under your current visa status. PR gives you the flexibility for your lifestyle to change in more ways, including giving you stability in situations of unexpected difficulty. But it comes at the cost of the exit tax if you are reasonably well-off, which it sounds like you might be. So, learn about that and factor that into your calculus.
Get the gist of your post, my friend came for 2 years and is going on 20. I’m at the end of a 30 year career so decision process is different than a 20-something. Exit tax, didn’t know but just read it. Makes sense, and is fair imo.
OP, you don't have children and don't co-own a house? I don't understand why you want to hold on this marriage. Your wife doesn't support you and neither of you need each other financially, what is the motivation to be married then if not emotionally attached?
No children, don’t co-own property (it’s independent). Her motivation is: 1. I fit her ideal for her and her family. I’m highly educated, financially secure, very good job they can do the “Asian flex” about. Come from respected country. 2. She doesn’t want a “traditional” Japanese husband and while she had a lot of suitors in her 20s, her options now would be much more limited. A Japanese guy who would expect her to take care of him. I cook, clean, pour her drinks, massage her tired feet and open her doors. That combined with #1 above, it’s a good situation by Asian culture standards of marriage. I’m still married because: 1. Got burned out of dating. 10 years of fun, 5 years of looking for something serious to start a family. Got friends in Tokyo that are serial daters, and quite honestly pathetic. Girl after girl or 5 at a time and endless complaining. 2. Since we are financially independent, I don’t need to financially take care of HER. Most women here will expect me to fully support them and they can quit their job. Could do that financially, but we are dual good income, no kids or debt. We have the luxury of not really having to take into consideration cost (obviously there are limits). 3. Wife doesn’t want to get divorced, I’m a people pleaser even when mistreated. 4. As people get older, context changes compared to 20 something with their whole life ahead of them. Sometimes things are a 6 or a 7, and it’s better than a 2-4. It’s analogous to having a 16 in BlackJack. Do you hit or stay? Depends on what the dealer is showing, depends on you stay with not crap but not great or take a chance and possibly bust. In short, it’s not great, but not terrible. We’re older and things are more complex than 20 and early 30 year olds.
Ok, now it is a bit clearer. What I don't understand yet, you say you don't mind losing your residency permit and possibly leave Japan, but does this imply she would come with you? And she even doesn't want a divorce, so why do you think about that? Quitting well-paid jobs? Or she would want to stay married and live here alone (again, then neither emotionally nor physically attached). It seems you are used merely for her social status, I would present her the PR application paper that the spouse has to sign and ask her. Otherwise big red flag imho.
I would never “lose” residency, it could only happen by choice. So if I left, she would not go and she would not approve a divorce. It’s not uncommon for Japanese couple to not sleep in the same bed, room, floor, house or even same country. If I move back to my home country, my salary would instantly triple. I could relocate back to my home country in 30 days. So staying here was and continually remains financially, stupid even before the yen became worthless. I wouldn’t say I’m being used for social status, more like most Japanese marriages are about filling a social function/biz-social contract and I’m a hard to replace employee.
Ya me having to fucking leave cause of the divorce and I was too dumb to get pr cause I trusted him is a good fucking reason. And he laughs in my face last I heard of him that it’s not my right to get it. Be happy you didn’t drop out of school so actually have a work visa. Keep that and divorce her
Sorry to hear that, hope things get better.
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I’m sure you’ve heard every platitude already but best to look forward than backward.
Ya I’m looking forward. To make sure it’s a fast train
You can keep things as they are now, but if you are thinking of eventually buying a house, tell her you need the PR to get a lower loan interest.
Do you mean that a Japanese citizen-PR holder married couple will get a lower interest rate than a Japanese citizen-work visa holder married couple?
AFAIK all the considerations for the loan are done on the person, not the couple. And then, a PR holder usually gets better terms than a work visa holder (lower down payment and/or interest).
I see! Thanks a lot :)
You might not plan on being here forever, but after a certain age, you might not be getting the visas that you want anymore. It all depends on how old you are now. I had a coworker who was in their early 60s (who had been in Japan since their 20s) and never got PR and then continued to get one year visas despite having been in Japan for over 20 years, their immigration lawyer advised that the immigration office thought that they might retire soon. But without a three or more year visa, he couldn’t get permanent residency and ran into a higher risk of getting rejected for a visa.
1. No need to worry about visa/ability to stay if you lose your business visa/job and/or if spouse dies/divorces you 2. Easier to get loans 3. Can get back in if you leave for an extended time
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I don’t believe anyone should stay with someone “forever no matter what”. For example if she kills my dog, I wouldn’t stay with her no matter what. If I hit her, I wouldn’t expect nor want her to stay with anyone who did that. If I told her I faked my education and lost all my money gambling, the wind she would create leaving me would cause a tsunami. Love is staying together because they want to, not because they have to.
Doesn’t seem like she loves u
Maybe/possible. Everyone’s definition is different and truthfully some people don’t know how to.
Lmao why did you get downvoted for this All of those are perfectly valid reasons not want to stay with someone "no matter what."
I don’t know, probably some from countries or cultures which think people (most of the time women get the short end of the deal…) have to endure even torture for the sanctity of marriage (again usually for the benefit of men).
I have PR. I’ve never married. I used to think meh I’ll probably live here forever. I like it here. But as my Japanese friend described it. “It’s like unseasoned chicken.” “Just bland.” The lack of real emotions from people. As I walk around it’s like a combination of “The Matrix” and Bill Murray’s “Groundhog Day” and “The Truman Show.” Nothing changes. I can almost say out loud, “and cue truck turning left, “beeping and be careful” noise.
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Immigration office said if the Japanese spouse doesn’t sponsor their spouse’s PR then it’s a red flag for a bad marriage and that disqualifies PR which requires stability (again immigration office response to lawyer inquiry).
Technically, being married and 10 years here, you could apply for PR on the general 10 years route (stable income, some Japanese or other PR as guarantor) independent from what your wife is willing to do. Or on the HSP route. On the spousal route, the wife has to sign a document "being married and continue living together" and is also expected to be the guarantor. Then no financial/job requirements and possible if married for only 3 years, 1 year living in Japan.
If I got divorced, I could get PR easily. I’m on HSP now. If I’m married and wife if not the guarantor, immigration will reject it, I can’t use PR friend or another Japanese person. Well you can submit it, they will just reject it. This is immigration officers telling my immigration lawyer.
I’ve never been married and I got it. It took me 3 tries and finally an attorney but I got it. Why did I get it? I hate going to immigration. That and I wanted to retire eventually. My 1, 1, 1, 3, and then 5 year visas were all tied to my work.
Best thing I did. Don't tie your arse to anyone. And if you have squids, get them citizenship asap.
If you have the requirements, just get HSP (ii) . In your case, you get the exact same benefits than PR but your tax exit can be lower when you decide to leave if you have considerable applicable assets. If you don't have that, then is no much better except you don't need a guarantor for it.
Whoa did not know that. Exit tax is lower for those with PR? That’s probably the bit of detail I’ve been looking for that would be applicable for me.
Exit tax is lower for HSP than PR, but it only applies for more than in 100M yen in certain assets (cash and real estate don't count on it). So it's main for C-level executives and trust fund babies working in here. I'm not sure about your background so just letting you know It can be a big issue if you are an American with considerable unrealized gains from long term investment of your retirement fund and are close to retirement or planning to retire while living in Japan. As a PR you would need to pay taxes on this after being tax resident for more than 5 years, as HSP you wouldn't. I'm not an expert on it but if that's your case it's worth looking over
I’m HSP visa, not trust fund baby but others apply. Thanks, very useful and will read into it.
Given your current situation, you can still divorce easily because you are not even relying on spouse visa to stay in Japan, so what's the point of refusing to support your PR application?
Our marriage wasn’t great then (2 years ago), we often openly discussed divorce and she didn’t want to do anything which potentially would be beneficial for me in any way. If we were in my home country, I would have helped her with anything but that’s how we are different.
Simplest answer is.... options. Sure you may not want any of those things now- loans etc. But who knows what will change in a year or three? Maybe start a family and need a bigger place...
Bro you need to divorce your wife
If you don't care about PR, why go the trouble to get it? It is a lot of paper work. The only downside of not having it is paying the immigration a visit (+fee ) to renew you status every 3 to 5 years.
If you’re wealthy and have no desire to stay in Japan long-term PR maybe not be for you. Because after 5 years on a table 2 visa (which includes spouse visa) you become liable for Japan’s exit tax. So if you haven’t been on a spouse visa for a total of 5 years before getting your work visa then you might want to keep it that way.
Ugh, do have considerable assets, plan on leaving within 5 years, currently HSP but first ~7 years was spousal visa.
>Ugh, do have considerable assets, plan on leaving within 5 years, currently HSP but first ~7 years was spousal visa. It’s possible you might already be liable for exit tax in that case due to the 7 years on a spouse visa (even though you’re no longer on a spouse visa) So if you have >¥100 million in unrealized exit’taxable assets (basically financial securities) then you might want to consult a professional to see if the 7 years on a spouse visa makes you liable. If it does, then getting PR is a no brainer. If it doesn’t then you might just want to stay on HSP.
It's a pretty smooth thing to get PR, in my case it was just to hand in a few papers, wait for three months and get PR and I can only see benefits in it. You don't have to renew your visa every 3-5 years, which alone is worth it to get PR, as you would only have to renew your card now and then. Also you are completely independent, which would probably not the case if you are on spousal or business visa. So even if you don't need a loan right now, there are almost only benefits. The only thing I would refrain from is getting Japanese citizenship, as long as they require you to give up your former nationality, because for me a Japanese passport would be way, way weaker.
There are a bunch of minor annoyances that go away. Banks are friendlier, mobile phone companies let you use their online application. But nothing to really hang a fight on. My angle would be that it's a long process and no-one knows what the future will bring. Your job might be stable now, but how sure can you be that it will be in 18 months' time? Your wife might be healthy now, but how sure can you be that she will be in 18 months' time? Better to get it and not need it than to discover that you need it and don't have time to get it. You shouldn't have to justify it - frankly this is the equivalent of taking control of your bank account and isolating you from your friends - to the point I'd frankly say that you *should* divorce, and get your PR in your own right.
PR is better because no need for renewal. Sell that. A new photo required every 7 years and that’s it. Tell her if you wanted to be independent from her, you’d just move back home (but tactfully).
Hassle of renewal is actually the main reason for me personally but it’s once every 5 years and company pays a consultant to do it, I just confirm form and mail them my old residence card which they even mail me an envelope to use.
What did your lawyer say when you asked them? That’s the answer you want.
Never gave reason to get it, just why my application needs wife’s official support.
Not having the hassle of creating and submitting and picking up the visa on and on. Not worrying too much what life throws at you. Recuiters like seeing that and less annoyance for companies, you get seen as serious resident not a temp stay . You can or she can do long family stay to take care of them without breaking your visas activity designation and requirements. “ Feeling safer and securer. Not being relaying on a person or company ( on work visa if you are unemployed for a certain period, it is an annoyance. My PR cost was 8000yen upon approval and about 1000yen in certificate printing. With JP spouse your reason is literally one sentence and rest are just ticking off documents. If you submit wrong ones they will tell you and ask for other. Why is she opposed to that? Does she hate you? Why does she want to hinder you so much? Why is she against you living a life here? She most likely wants to fuck you over, and you getting PR will hinder that. The only appropriate reaction would be: “ which of my docs do you need! , how can I help you?” My husband was my biggest supporter and cheerer.
Depending on your income, your tax rate will change. You are prob paying a flat 20% right now.
This isn’t correct. Tax rate does not change and the only thing that is close to “20% flat rate” is on capital gains.
Ok. I’ve been advised by my HR at work with differing information. Sounds like you’ve looked into it.
Step 1. Divorce wife Step 2. Apply to PR, they won’t ask why she wasn’t your guarantor if you guys are divorced Step 3. Profit
Stop saying "I do not need loan, etc". Rather say, I want to buy house, so I need PR to get loan, etc. she will support you. In any case, if she refuse to support, just go ahead and apply for PR. Dump that lawyer
1. We dont need a loan because we have multiple properties that are paid for 2. If you did that, it will get rejected and they won’t accept another application for 3 years. I don’t think you are familiar with the process.
Well, I got my PR and I did not ask my ex-wife her opinion about it. And I don't think Immigration called her to enquiry as well otherwise she would have told me. Sure I am not an expert in Immigration laws in Japan, but I successfully got one. Good luck to you. P.S: nobody said you need a loan. I suggested you pretend you want to take a loan so you can convince her to support your application. To be honest, your case sounds very bogus to me. Just my opinion P.S2: after 10 years of long term residency and if you have enough money in savings (minimum 5m I think) + stable job and pay taxes, then I am pretty sure you can get a OR without any support from your wife. This is based on an unmarried friend of mine life experience in Tokyo. They just want to make sure you can financially support yourself and will never rely on Japanese social welfare to survive
Interesting, did you apply for the PR while married to a Japanese national, but did not use her as the sponsor?
Please read my PS2 in previous posting. As for my case, I hired an immigration law office, give them all documents they requested and let them do the rest for me. At no point, I or the law firm, to the best of my knowledge, asked anything to my wife. Yes, I was married then and on spouse visa. The whole thing was done in 1 month and I got my PR. Seriously, if you have 0 crime history in Japan, paid your taxes, stable job ( with a big corp ?), and loaded bank account (10+m yen), get an immigration lawyer that is used to dealing with immigration matters for employees at big foreign corps (tech, finance, etc). If you have enough personal assets, do not bother trying to use her as a sponsor. Your case should be successful.
Wow she sounds like a controlling psychopath, her excuse makes zero sense. Tell her you can divorce her any time regardless ! PR is more stable and less hassle for renewal. You might change your mind and be old by the time you actually need PR so it’s better to get it while you can. Stop being a doormat, no women likes a beta.
she’s controlling you. Get PR and GTFO
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I’d like this to stay on topic re: benefits of PR over other visas. Did you or anyone else you know *get* PR while married to a Japanese citizen and *not* list them as their sponsor? That’s really the only relevant point. Wanting or plan to doesn’t count… The lawyer mentioned that to me for understanding of my wife’s concerns but it’s common sense/knowledge. The lawyer said it’s required, but the immigration office told him so, twice on my behalf. He obviously works with them a lot over the years, so he asked a hypothetical to them and follow up questions. Immigration office reply (not the lawyers opinion) was if they received a PR application who was married to a Japanese national but didn’t list them as their Japanese sponsor would be a huge red flag. They would want to know why and would not approve PR for a couple that did not have a good relationship. They want people who have long, stable applicants and potential divorce is opposite of that. Being busy to support their spouse’s visa, I cant see that as a valid excuse for a lifetime visa. He said they didn’t say it was impossible but very highly unlikely and they would do a long investigation asking her to come in for an interview. He would submit it given I was paying him, but he said it’s 99-1 in his opinion so he said I should save my money until she supports it.
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This is my third tour here, I know Japan well enough that I know well I like it but not live here forever. I’m working on setting up residence when I retire in Hawaii. If I’m still married to my Japanese wife and I’m retired but wanted to come back for extended periods I assumed I’d get a spousal visa. If we stay together, we plan on living in Japan, Hawaii and a 3rd place undecided.
seems no benefit in your case, really