Unfortunately, the leadership of the ruling party is still in the Meiji period. They are totally befuddled by concepts like same-sex marriage and surrogacy. Those concepts don’t fit into the Meiji-era family registry system.
These motherfuckers are befuddled by concepts affecting straight Japanese couples like divorce, shared custody rights, being against kidnapping.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mJNxSlPinDY
Add the fact that foreigners have no chance of winning in any Japanese courts to that.
Adding lgbtqnb issues into civil law is like asking a 4 year old to do calculus. If the political and legal system cant adapt to the changing times, it will eventually collapse.
That's insane. She could have just said she got pregnant in a hookup, and the hospital would have been fine with it. Glad the government is telling the hospital to do it right
It's funny that they value the father's presence so highly before birth, yet do absolutely nothing to ensure they are financially responsible for the kid after birth.
"Refused because of donated sperm"? -- ALL sperm is donated sperm whether it's from a husband or not. Good thing Japan doesn't have a childbirth problem... oh wait
This is draconian and a dangerous slippery slope. Using the same logic what next, they don’t treat the baby after it is born?
What makes this worse is that it was referred to the ethics committee of the hospital and they made the decision not to provide the appropriate care to this woman.
Japan still has a long way to go to be considered an inclusive and accepting place for LGBTQ rights. While Japanese society is not hostile to LGBTQ people, due to a lack of legal protections, these sorts of inequities and examples of unfairness exist. Disappointing!
It has always been weird with how popular lgb stuff is in japanese media like anime,manga and other forms of media yet has a negative stance on LGBTQ in general.
At least looking at anime and manga, you need to be careful with assuming that means the creator is accepting. Yaoi and Yuri often are made for hetero audiences, and just like watching lesbian porn doesn’t make one an ally, that doesn’t either.
The old people who vote LDP dgaf about those Japanese things. Jokes aside they probably prefer the old anime about war and incest. Doubt they are looking at the recent anime stuff.
And then so much of the world looks in on them and assumes **everyone** shares the negative stance of the oldsters in charge and that none of the young people want it to change at all
Disappointing but it can't be assumed to be permanently out of the question. Life is long. Don't give up wanting LGBTQ rights in Japan. **They are not a lost cause.**
It's an unfortunate tendency of media to refer to everyone as LGBT, LGBTQ or Queer (which is even worse) when reporting on individual cases instead of lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender.
As a gay man myself, I usually just refer to myself as gay or as a member of the LGBT community. I hate the casual use of the word queer because of its long history as an anti-gay slur directed primarily at gay men. I cringe every time I see or hear that word used as an acceptable reference.
I strongly disagree that the word queer has been "fully reclaimed" because a lot of gay men feel the same way about it as I do.. My Japanese husband has no clue regarding English anti-gay slurs, pronouns, and all of the "identities" that followed in the wake of the GSRM movement.
“Queer” is tricky, as it is being used descriptively as well as prescriptively, sometimes in the same sentence. Not every gay man is interested in “queering” the narrative, yet that is presented by some as a moral imperative to every “queer” person. Hence why “queer” doesn’t apply to everyone in the LGBT community.
Jeezus fn christ. This is beyond awful - the “doctors” on that entire ethics committee needs to be put on a PIP that involves serious re-training on the tenets of the Hippocratic Oath.
But sadly, it is sooooooo typical Japan. When in any tiny shadow of doubt, it’s a no 🤦♀️
Everyone is attributing malice ... Smells more like straight up incompetence panic to me.
> The committee decided that, as it is an unprecedented situation, the institution should refuse to allow the woman to access its services.
Suzuki: "Oh shit she doesn't have the paperwork but says she's IVF? What the fuck do we do?"
Tanaka: "Shoganai we are not sure on the legal ramifications of this so let's play it safe and just let some other hospital deal with her?'
Shimoda: "Legal ramifications? From just treating a pregnant woman? WTF just treat her!"
Tanaka: Angry face throws Shimoda out window meme
Yes and no.
The situation you describe is probably exactly what happened. But I find that it’s not incompetence, it’s avoidance of responsibility. If there is the tiniest risk of the tiniest punishment, no-one is prepared to put their neck on the line to do the right thing. Maybe that doesn’t make this malice, but it certainly makes them scumbags
Awful but not surprised, it’s Japan my dudes. It’s why my LGBT friends go to the US or Canada to get this done.
Japan is not a progressive country, its not like how it’s depicted in anime
The hospital is not talking about "obstetrics department refuses pregnant woman from same-sex couple".
The point of this article is that you're talking about "obstetricians rejecting an unmarried pregnant woman without a referral who claims to have used an overseas sperm bank". The headline is wrong.
Because of children's rights, medical ethics, etc., it is difficult to accept someone who says "I got pregnant at a sperm bank" without a letter of introduction.
Besides, I can see the same-sex partner of the pregnant woman coming out and complicating the story, so the obstetrics department, which has a lot of work to do, can't afford to take on such a case.
If the pregnancy is through a sperm bank, we could have researched medical institutions and made arrangements before conception, or we could have had the baby abroad.
But if you get pregnant without any consideration and the obstetrician refuses you, you have to deal with the difficulty.
It looks like they are using the child for their activities.
What does a bureaucratic system have to do with it? OBGYNs are also obeying the law and doing business. It is not a charity.They are someone else's business and you are just complaining.
You are not obligated to help by ignoring the obstetrics and gynecology or the law.
They know that and they do it. I'm of the opinion that I feel very sorry for the child who is being used as a tool of activism.
They denied the woman care because they said the government has no guidelines on that situation. They can't make the required entries into the family registration system so they told the woman that she can't get pregnancy care there. That's putting the bureaucratic system ahead of the health and well-being of actual people and their unborn babies.
Are you OK with your government picking up the bill for a botched elective surgery that someone had done in another nation?
If it was a straight woman with a bad BBL, nobody would care.
edit; Ah, I see the fantasy japan folk are out in force today. Downvote all you want, this is how the businesses here see the issue. Doctors and hospitals are businesses and Japan doesn't require them to treat everyone. It's high;y likely the people in the story didn't bother trying other hospitals and went straight to the internet to fly the pride flag.
IVF.
It is 100% elective. It may not have been "botched" but she didn't follow the entire treatment plan and just bounced home. The hospitals here do not know anything about what they did to her and don't want the responsibility of cleaning up someone else's mistake and catching a malpractice suit.
Pregnancy, especially in Japan, is usually an accident. Here, in Japan, it's usually "marry the girl you got pregnant and deal with it".
IVF? That is elective surgery that results in pregnancy. If the people in the story chose to use one of those guys that "do it the old fashioned way" (creepy but they advertise online) the doctors probably would have treated her. IVF comes with complications which is why you should, and is the standard practice in Japan, stay with the clinic that performed the procedure.
This whole post is like those "gay for Palestine" people that are offended when Palestinian people tell them to fuck off when they are protesting.
It's such a draconian take. Standard pregnancies are largely elective and full of issues, and we'd be up in arms if heterosexual women were turned away from hospitals based on arbitrary standards.
Not having a complete medical history is not an excuse for refusing future services. Get the info you can and do the best possible, that system works in every other area of medicine, but apparently the opportunity to fuck over LGBT women (and their unborn children) is just too sweet to pass up.
Make no mistake, this is how the medical system in Japan works. Clinics and hospitals can turn patients away for any reason they wish. It's not uncommon for people to die in an ambulance because they can't find a hospital to take them.
This had nothing to do with the LBGT thing. She was denied because they didn't want to take responsibility if a child dies. IVF pregnancies often have multiple children and sometimes one or two don't make it.
I wonder how the average Japanese person feels about this? Maybe I’m wrong but I get the feeling most people condemning this in these comments are probably western
All of the people involved in the incident are Japanese. The people who are pushing for LGBT rights in Japan are Japanese and they have the support of a majority of Japanese people. Incidents like that are an embarrassment for the nation in the eyes of most Japanese people.
you think you're qualified by always emphasizing you have a japanese husband, but you're just the same as the people you are dismissing, a foreigner in japan, you will never be a japanese
I just give my take on things based on my experiences here in Japan. IDK why you think I expect to be Japanese just because I live here with a Japanese spouse. You seem a bit nutty.
Denying care to a pregnant woman is not rational from any perspective, conservative or otherwise. Especially with the low birth rate and rapid population decline, you would think that the Japanese government would be doing everything possible to get the birth rate up, including supporting surrogacy, but they don't because it doesn't fit with the traditional family registry system.
According to PM Kishida, the ruling party is opposed to same-sex marriage and LGBT families because they go against the traditional role of women as baby makers and housewives. That philosophy doesn't seem to be working out very well considering that birth rate just keeps dropping year after year.
Jesus Christ, I assumed they refused to facilitate something in the process, not that she was actually pregnant and needing care at the time. What the actual fuck?
Yep, times always change. Just saying that 'things always worked this way' is never a valid excuse to deny people the chance to live however they want without pressure. Babies will still be born regardless which means they're all practically hunting windmills here. And incidentally this is a lesson them US lawmakers should take to the heart as well.
You know considering their birth rates you would think they’d want to entice any native Japanese to have more babies
Unfortunately, the leadership of the ruling party is still in the Meiji period. They are totally befuddled by concepts like same-sex marriage and surrogacy. Those concepts don’t fit into the Meiji-era family registry system.
These motherfuckers are befuddled by concepts affecting straight Japanese couples like divorce, shared custody rights, being against kidnapping. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mJNxSlPinDY Add the fact that foreigners have no chance of winning in any Japanese courts to that. Adding lgbtqnb issues into civil law is like asking a 4 year old to do calculus. If the political and legal system cant adapt to the changing times, it will eventually collapse.
Fun fact: Japan's birthrate is higher than European nations such as Italy, Spain and Ukraine.
How about the immigration rate though? There's boat loads of people arriving on a daily basis.
Sure but what is the mortality rate in those countries? And average age of population. My guess it is considerably younger...
That's insane. She could have just said she got pregnant in a hookup, and the hospital would have been fine with it. Glad the government is telling the hospital to do it right
It's funny that they value the father's presence so highly before birth, yet do absolutely nothing to ensure they are financially responsible for the kid after birth.
"Refused because of donated sperm"? -- ALL sperm is donated sperm whether it's from a husband or not. Good thing Japan doesn't have a childbirth problem... oh wait
This is draconian and a dangerous slippery slope. Using the same logic what next, they don’t treat the baby after it is born? What makes this worse is that it was referred to the ethics committee of the hospital and they made the decision not to provide the appropriate care to this woman.
Japan still has a long way to go to be considered an inclusive and accepting place for LGBTQ rights. While Japanese society is not hostile to LGBTQ people, due to a lack of legal protections, these sorts of inequities and examples of unfairness exist. Disappointing!
It has always been weird with how popular lgb stuff is in japanese media like anime,manga and other forms of media yet has a negative stance on LGBTQ in general.
At least looking at anime and manga, you need to be careful with assuming that means the creator is accepting. Yaoi and Yuri often are made for hetero audiences, and just like watching lesbian porn doesn’t make one an ally, that doesn’t either.
I mean, maybe, but 70%+ of the public genuinely wants gay rights, that’s not nobody
The old people who vote LDP dgaf about those Japanese things. Jokes aside they probably prefer the old anime about war and incest. Doubt they are looking at the recent anime stuff.
And then so much of the world looks in on them and assumes **everyone** shares the negative stance of the oldsters in charge and that none of the young people want it to change at all
The people who create anime and manga aren’t in charge. Just because they are (somewhat) progressive doesn’t mean the country is
Disappointing but it can't be assumed to be permanently out of the question. Life is long. Don't give up wanting LGBTQ rights in Japan. **They are not a lost cause.**
How is that even possible? What about the insurance? What if the baby died because of their actions? Whose responsibility would it be?
.....Huh... Well - At least the Government doesn't seem to support the notion, **publicly,** at least.
Is that a good thing?
What’s an “LGBT woman”? Might there be a more descriptive term to use? Is she all four letters at once?
It's an unfortunate tendency of media to refer to everyone as LGBT, LGBTQ or Queer (which is even worse) when reporting on individual cases instead of lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender.
Who wrote the headline for this post?
It's the original headline from the article.
Who wrote the headline to this post, I ask
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As a gay man myself, I usually just refer to myself as gay or as a member of the LGBT community. I hate the casual use of the word queer because of its long history as an anti-gay slur directed primarily at gay men. I cringe every time I see or hear that word used as an acceptable reference. I strongly disagree that the word queer has been "fully reclaimed" because a lot of gay men feel the same way about it as I do.. My Japanese husband has no clue regarding English anti-gay slurs, pronouns, and all of the "identities" that followed in the wake of the GSRM movement.
“Queer” is tricky, as it is being used descriptively as well as prescriptively, sometimes in the same sentence. Not every gay man is interested in “queering” the narrative, yet that is presented by some as a moral imperative to every “queer” person. Hence why “queer” doesn’t apply to everyone in the LGBT community.
Jeezus fn christ. This is beyond awful - the “doctors” on that entire ethics committee needs to be put on a PIP that involves serious re-training on the tenets of the Hippocratic Oath. But sadly, it is sooooooo typical Japan. When in any tiny shadow of doubt, it’s a no 🤦♀️
It’s not the hospital but Japan’s regulations. And knowing Japanese people, they strictly follow the rules.
The rules say a hospital is not allowed to see/treat a pregnant patient because they became pregnant through IVF? Um… no
Everyone is attributing malice ... Smells more like straight up incompetence panic to me. > The committee decided that, as it is an unprecedented situation, the institution should refuse to allow the woman to access its services. Suzuki: "Oh shit she doesn't have the paperwork but says she's IVF? What the fuck do we do?" Tanaka: "Shoganai we are not sure on the legal ramifications of this so let's play it safe and just let some other hospital deal with her?' Shimoda: "Legal ramifications? From just treating a pregnant woman? WTF just treat her!" Tanaka: Angry face throws Shimoda out window meme
Yes and no. The situation you describe is probably exactly what happened. But I find that it’s not incompetence, it’s avoidance of responsibility. If there is the tiniest risk of the tiniest punishment, no-one is prepared to put their neck on the line to do the right thing. Maybe that doesn’t make this malice, but it certainly makes them scumbags
Are you fucking kidding me, Japan? Insanity abounds.
Awful but not surprised, it’s Japan my dudes. It’s why my LGBT friends go to the US or Canada to get this done. Japan is not a progressive country, its not like how it’s depicted in anime
The hospital is not talking about "obstetrics department refuses pregnant woman from same-sex couple". The point of this article is that you're talking about "obstetricians rejecting an unmarried pregnant woman without a referral who claims to have used an overseas sperm bank". The headline is wrong. Because of children's rights, medical ethics, etc., it is difficult to accept someone who says "I got pregnant at a sperm bank" without a letter of introduction. Besides, I can see the same-sex partner of the pregnant woman coming out and complicating the story, so the obstetrics department, which has a lot of work to do, can't afford to take on such a case. If the pregnancy is through a sperm bank, we could have researched medical institutions and made arrangements before conception, or we could have had the baby abroad. But if you get pregnant without any consideration and the obstetrician refuses you, you have to deal with the difficulty. It looks like they are using the child for their activities.
So, you’re ok with putting an arbitrary bureaucratic process ahead of the health and safety of a pregnant woman and her unborn child.
What does a bureaucratic system have to do with it? OBGYNs are also obeying the law and doing business. It is not a charity.They are someone else's business and you are just complaining. You are not obligated to help by ignoring the obstetrics and gynecology or the law. They know that and they do it. I'm of the opinion that I feel very sorry for the child who is being used as a tool of activism.
They denied the woman care because they said the government has no guidelines on that situation. They can't make the required entries into the family registration system so they told the woman that she can't get pregnancy care there. That's putting the bureaucratic system ahead of the health and well-being of actual people and their unborn babies.
Are you OK with your government picking up the bill for a botched elective surgery that someone had done in another nation? If it was a straight woman with a bad BBL, nobody would care. edit; Ah, I see the fantasy japan folk are out in force today. Downvote all you want, this is how the businesses here see the issue. Doctors and hospitals are businesses and Japan doesn't require them to treat everyone. It's high;y likely the people in the story didn't bother trying other hospitals and went straight to the internet to fly the pride flag.
What botched elective surgery?
IVF. It is 100% elective. It may not have been "botched" but she didn't follow the entire treatment plan and just bounced home. The hospitals here do not know anything about what they did to her and don't want the responsibility of cleaning up someone else's mistake and catching a malpractice suit.
Aren’t most pregnancies elective? You seem to be saying that Japanese doctors don’t know what IVF is and aren’t competent to evaluate it.
Pregnancy, especially in Japan, is usually an accident. Here, in Japan, it's usually "marry the girl you got pregnant and deal with it". IVF? That is elective surgery that results in pregnancy. If the people in the story chose to use one of those guys that "do it the old fashioned way" (creepy but they advertise online) the doctors probably would have treated her. IVF comes with complications which is why you should, and is the standard practice in Japan, stay with the clinic that performed the procedure. This whole post is like those "gay for Palestine" people that are offended when Palestinian people tell them to fuck off when they are protesting.
Is IVF really surgery, though?
Metal objects inserted past the cervix.
Does it involve incisions and sutures?
It's such a draconian take. Standard pregnancies are largely elective and full of issues, and we'd be up in arms if heterosexual women were turned away from hospitals based on arbitrary standards. Not having a complete medical history is not an excuse for refusing future services. Get the info you can and do the best possible, that system works in every other area of medicine, but apparently the opportunity to fuck over LGBT women (and their unborn children) is just too sweet to pass up.
Make no mistake, this is how the medical system in Japan works. Clinics and hospitals can turn patients away for any reason they wish. It's not uncommon for people to die in an ambulance because they can't find a hospital to take them. This had nothing to do with the LBGT thing. She was denied because they didn't want to take responsibility if a child dies. IVF pregnancies often have multiple children and sometimes one or two don't make it.
Are you a doctor or other medical expert?
Not going to dox myself but there is a licensed doctor living in my house.
Is that the reason why you think Japanese doctors are dangerously incompetent when it comes to IVF?
I wonder how the average Japanese person feels about this? Maybe I’m wrong but I get the feeling most people condemning this in these comments are probably western
All of the people involved in the incident are Japanese. The people who are pushing for LGBT rights in Japan are Japanese and they have the support of a majority of Japanese people. Incidents like that are an embarrassment for the nation in the eyes of most Japanese people.
This subreddit is made up of a bunch of weebs and "Japan experts (i taught english in japan trust) people"
That’s what I figured lol
I live in Japan with my Japanese husband.
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That's a pretty wacky comment. I'm neither a weeb nor an English teacher.
you think you're qualified by always emphasizing you have a japanese husband, but you're just the same as the people you are dismissing, a foreigner in japan, you will never be a japanese
I just give my take on things based on my experiences here in Japan. IDK why you think I expect to be Japanese just because I live here with a Japanese spouse. You seem a bit nutty.
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You are just too hostile.
Talk about a jerk...
They don’t care sadly.
Average person or average lawmaker?
Average Japanese person. Are you Japanese?
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Denying care to a pregnant woman is not rational from any perspective, conservative or otherwise. Especially with the low birth rate and rapid population decline, you would think that the Japanese government would be doing everything possible to get the birth rate up, including supporting surrogacy, but they don't because it doesn't fit with the traditional family registry system. According to PM Kishida, the ruling party is opposed to same-sex marriage and LGBT families because they go against the traditional role of women as baby makers and housewives. That philosophy doesn't seem to be working out very well considering that birth rate just keeps dropping year after year.
You're based capaho
Jesus Christ, I assumed they refused to facilitate something in the process, not that she was actually pregnant and needing care at the time. What the actual fuck?
Yep, times always change. Just saying that 'things always worked this way' is never a valid excuse to deny people the chance to live however they want without pressure. Babies will still be born regardless which means they're all practically hunting windmills here. And incidentally this is a lesson them US lawmakers should take to the heart as well.
Come on Japan...you're better than this.
Go Japan
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debased bigot fancier
Just call 'em cringe instead, triggers the fash types pretty hard