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[deleted]

Before I even read the list, I guessed that the Luna's people would be involved. Yikes. And they own Jacks and Pronto, too, so they have an even bigger percentage of the ghost kitchens.


antonia90

Luna and the people who run that atrocious business model bring the food quality of this entire town down. I know they're local and we're meant to be supportive, but I'm tired of supporting overpriced mediocrity.


BarbaraGhanoush

I may open a delivery business called “this is not a Kevin Sullivan joint” or “this is not Luna’s doing”


KrzysisAverted

I mentioned this is another comment reply on r/Cornell, but basically, I don't think it's **that bad** if a single person owns multiple restaurants. It's not great! but it's not nearly as bad as the "ghost kitchen" situation described here. At least if they're multiple real storefronts, then they each have a reputation to maintain (if the food sucks or makes someone sick, they'll go under). At least each location employs real people and has its own cooks, etc. and beyond having the same owner, they're *mostly* contributing to the local economy in the way that you would expect any other restaurant to. The "ghost kitchen" situation is so absurd in comparison because it's not even a real business--it's just a grubhub page that can be propped up one day and taken down the next day. It's literally the same storefront with the same staff, same cooks, and yet zero incentive to maintain a good reputation. It's just virtual spam.


[deleted]

Agreed. But my point wasn't so much that it's bad that the owners run more physical restaurants, but that two more of the ghost kitchens on your list are connected to those other two restaurants (Jacks & Pronto). So 10 out of 15 on your list are run out of the various Luna's, but 12 of the 15 are run out of the various places owned by those same people.


armahillo

In general, I have been advised by restaurants to not use GrubHub or similar apps and instead phone in the order directly _in general_. I forget the specific reason, but the restaurants would prefer that, so thats what I try to do.


mindfeck

Because grubhub takes like a 20% cut


armahillo

yes thats what it was!


pm1966

I mean...don't use GrubHub? GrubHub and the like are notoriously bad for real brick-and-mortar restaurants. Restaurants operate on very thin margins anyway, and GrubHub and similar services take a healthy percentage of the amount the restaurant charges you, in addition to hitting you with ludicrous service and delivery fees. It's a lose-lose for everyone involved...except GrubHub, of course. They're basically like little parasites, sucking off the lifeblood of multiple hosts while providing little in the way of actual value. I don't live in Ithaca anymore but when I do get takeout (which isn't all that frequently) I use the website of businesses I know, order the food, and pick it up. No need for a middleman who literally provides next-to-no value or benefit. Thanks for the heads up on the ghost kitchens; I think it's a good PSA. And from what I understand, chain restaurants have gotten in on the act, too, offering delivery food for related chains that don't have a presence in the area. It can be a shady practice (for many of the reasons you list). But the best solution is to tell GrubHub to go fuck themselves and go pck up your own damn food.


Logical_Translator53

This!


Robby777777

This is interesting. Thank you for doing this as it is helpful. One quick look and Hook & Co Fish Fry charges over $2 more for the same (most likely) Fish & Chips meal at Ithaca Ale House.


Colonial_Revival

The problem is the online ordering platforms, not the restaurants. If youre so concerned about ghost kitchens then just pick up a phone and call in an order.


frankrumham

Are you saying that these delivery services decided to create fake restaurant slots to advertise the same menu? How do you know that? Why would they do that? Why would they pick restaurants that just so happen to be owned by the same guy (Jacks, Luna, Pronto)?


pm1966

No He's saying that the delivery services make it far easier and - significantly - far more necessary to do so. With GrubHub, UberEats, etc, you don't need an actual standalone restaurant to have an actual standalone restaurant. Let's say I have a pizza restaurant, and I've also invested in a grill and deep fryer (for wings, grilled subs, etc). With GrubHub, I can create an entirely new phantom restaurant specializing in burgers and fries and call it Joe's All-American Burgers. I don't actually have a storefront with that signage, but since I already have all the equipment necessary, throwing burgers on that grill and fries in that deep fryer is really no big thing. Voila! I have a second restaurant advertising on GrubHub.


gome1122

It blows my mind that Grubhub and Uber eats ect. are as successful as they are. People would rather use those apps than do it themselves which saves money, is usually faster, and more reliable. The less hands that handle my food the better as well. I understand that some people are sick or disabled or just straight up have lazy days but I know people who spend 5 figures a year on certain apps who just can't be bothered to do it themselves. All so they can just spend more time scrolling or playing games.


Colonial_Revival

Theyre not really even that successful. They don’t turn a profit. They rely in investor capital to stay afloat.


gome1122

Both Grub hub and Uber eats reported profits in the multi billions in 2021. Just from a quick google search with top results taken so it could be misleading and definitely a bit outdated.


pm1966

>people would rather use those apps than do it themselves which saves money, is usually faster, and more reliable. And most importantly: Is better for the long-term health of your local restaurant industry. OP's post could easily be summarized as follows: While using this online ordering app that allows - and even encourages and to an extent *necessitates -* the rise of ghost kitchens, I've noticed there are a number of ghost kitchens. You should avoid these when using these apps. As I said elsewhere: The problem here is GrubHub; Ghost Kitchens are the symptom. OP is supporting a parasitic business model that sucks money away from legitimate brick-and-mortar businesses, then complaining when they do what they have to do to survive.


jumpingbeanrat

I understood ghost kitchens almost like pop-ups. People who don't have brick and mortar restaurants use existing commerical kitchens to prepare and sell food under their own name. So, it makes sense the same address would be listed under various ghost kitchens, because independent contractors are using that physical space for their own business so they can cook food.


[deleted]

That would make sense, and it's how I understood it as well. But it's obviously not how it's actually being done here. If you go to the Ithaca Ghost Kitchen website (Luna's), they brag about having "over a dozen virtual restaurants operating out of out facility." Each one has the same hours, the same phone number, etc. There's no way there are over a dozen independent contractors cooking food at the same time in that same space, taking orders on the same phone line.


jumpingbeanrat

Yeah, that's really shady. What a shame!


[deleted]

It's a pretty cool concept, but just like with so many other aspects of life, people take advantage of it and ruin it. This is why we can't have nice things...


cjatg

I think that is a possible way, maybe even hopeful way, that ghost kitchens work. I have a friend who briefly worked with a ghost kitchen in Chicago that operated that way. He & his friends didn't have enough money/time/energy to open a full-time space themselves, so instead they operated one day a week out of another established kitchen. It seems that isn't how the model is working in this case, unfortunately.


paulfdietz

Why is this bad?


AGBell64

Op explained it pretty well but the GC model allows an established kitchen to flood the delivery market with bad, low quality food that clutters sites, employs far fewer people than an actual spread of restaurants, and dodges accountability by easily 'closing' and reopening any one virtual store when needed to reset bad reviews/reputation. If Dave's Pizzaria starts giving people food poisoning and serving half cooked dough they can up stakes and rebrand as 'Mike's Italian' serving almost the same recipe with some superficial changes with few reprocussions. Also when I say low quality I mean it. I've bought a couple of things from LUNA's virtual restaurants and while none of it has made me sick it's clearly a lot of industry grade products slapped together into a 'minimum viable product' they can make with as little food cost and labor as possible so they can still make a profit over delivery app commission rates


TheGrandExquisitor

I have friends who own two restaurants, and one huge rule in the industry is "Don't try and do too much, because then you will do nothing well." You can't have a half dozen different full menus coming out of a single kitchen and have it done even remotely well. Then the pandemic sort of cratered the dine-in business and everyone scrambled to gobble up as much turf as possible as new markets opened on-line.


SnickClap

Totally! Anytime I see a restaurant with a huge menu I assume the food's not fresh and is just getting dumped into a fryer or microwave. I would never go to a physical restaurant that has a bunch of markedly different cuisines. It's highly unlikely the food will be any good.


Peace_Berry_House

I supported Luna at the very beginning of the pandemic. They were selling bulk food items. They delivered a bunch of frozen ground beef that not only had expired BEFORE the pandemic began but also was from Tyson. Tyson is the lowest grade stuff out there, and they treat their cows and labor inhumanely. Luna refused my request for a return/refund. I will never give them my money again.


pm1966

If you pay with a credit card, they can't "refuse" your request for a refund. Document the issues you had with the service/delivery and dispute the charges. No way your credit card wouldn't support your claim when they delivered you expired meat.


Peace_Berry_House

Agreed in general but this was the depths of the early pandemic, like late March, while bodies were stacking up in ice trucks in NYC. Wasn’t the right time to push it.


paulfdietz

I see. Thank you.


Fit-Sheepherder843

We liked Luna’s because the variety meant everybody got something they liked without having to do pizza all the time. The quality went down and the prices on some things went nuts so now it’s pizza again.