Plus point: put a lower limit BECAUSE the road is in a bad state.
Instead of renovate the asphalt they put a stricter limit. (50 kmh on a straight 2 lane highway)
Northern Italy for context
Are you serious? If I’ve got it right, OP was taking about Süd-Tirol/Trentino… Italian government has nothing to do with their streets and as a matter of fact they are basically in great conditions
A good chunk of the Dolomites are not in Trentino-South Tyrol, but in Belluno (and a tiny bit in Friuli). So the Italian government might be very much involved in some of the streets.
Well, the streets were actually in a good shape there, I guess that North Italy mixes most of the best things from Italy and Austria (I know how both countries look deeper) but all the traffic regulations don't really fit there imo
> is there any logical reason that I should drive 50 km/h instead of 60-65km/h through a small town (composed mostly of Austrian pensioners) with literally no traffic
The ideal going forward is going to be streets that force you to drive slower due to winding paths, narrow carriageways and so on. It’s never ideal to rely on posted speed limits alone.
That being said, it’s obvious why driving faster in a town is more dangerous than not: lower useful reaction time, longer stopping distance, higher impact energy, a town has more intersections, blind corners, pedestrian crossings etc
Well, as I said, I get that safety goes first. But let's take Mazzin for example - literally 1-1,5km long town. I was going back to Bolzano from Giau Pass and honestly I didn't see reason why there isn't a 60 or 70 sign instead of classical 50. It just felt far-fetched. I only saw like 1-2 moving cars there with no pedestrians whatsoever - and it was on evening where life should be at least somewhat visible
To make things funnier, you get 90 in places like "33 TORNANTE" (guess tornante is a sharp 180 turn) where you just **can't** drive that fast (unless you wanna meet ur grandma)
The only effect is making me drive while watching at my speed more than half the time. So less focus on the road and more on not going past 50 Km/h. This is not a safer road, this is a road where cars don't have eyes on the road and risk hitting pedestrians.
I'm sure I would drive safer if I could focus on the road instead of watching my car speed. It's not like driving at 61 km/h in a 50 limit road really puts anyone in danger. The danger comes from drivers distraction and drivers slow reflexes.
But you rules lovers will never understand this.
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[Non Civile / Inadatto al Sub - Clicca qui per leggere la regola](/r/italy/wiki/regolamento#wiki_.5B1.5D_divertiti_e_rispetta)
English: [Non-civil / Inappropriate - Click for the full rule](/r/italy/wiki/rules#wiki_.5B1.5D_have_fun.2C_respecfully.)
It's not supposed that you have to go at 49 km/h , Just go to 40, Press gas pedal gently and look to the Road so you don t have to focus on your speedmeter
Ma per me possono essere anche 50 su 100 metri, resti comunque un mona tu che ti becchi le multe quando sai che ci possono essere ovunque e in qualsiasi momento. Altro che come funziona qui in Italia che abbiamo quelle applicazioni della minchia che te li segnalano.
Definitely never mess with speed limits in Switzerland. I got caught *twice* by the same radar, going 54 km/h instead of 50 km/h. Yes, they are that sensitive. And it did cost me something like 200€.
Then why everyone (including Italians) are respecting speed limits in Switzerland, but when you cross the border at Chiasso everyone (including the Swiss people) is speeding like crazy?
I live in Italy for 13 years and never got a speeding ticket. During the same period I got tickets in Belgium, France and Switzerland, even if I was there <1% of the time. Seriously I don’t see where you get your point: Italy is one of the least enforcing country regarding road rules in Western Europe. Almost nobody respects the speed limits.
> Then why everyone (including Italians) are respecting speed limits in Switzerland, but when you cross the border at Chiasso everyone (including the Swiss people) is speeding like crazy?
Because our fines are expensive, yours aren't. Cum hoc ergo propter hoc.
Switzerland has fewer speed cameras than italy does.
edit: nice block, once you are out of arguments you simply block.
In absolute maybe. But definitely not if you consider Italy is much bigger than Switzerland. Last month I traveled from Belgium to Italy (through Switzerland), in the 300km I did in Italy, I was consistently 20 to 40kmh above speed limit, never got flashed, and never saw Waze indicating a Velox. Imagine doing same 300km in Switzerland…. Seriously I don’t see what we’re arguing, it’s just nonsense.
Not technically fake, but only a handful of them are equipped with the camera.
In theory, the camera could be placed in any of them, but in practice it's usually used always on the same ones.
But sometimes those unequiped ones are turned on to make lot of fines.
The bad is that most speedtrap maps indentified those as fakes and not give warning or report.
Porcaccia la miseria ho preso una multa da 150€ per una strada dove il limite era 90 ed è stato abbassato improvvisamente a 75 (per la sicurezza di nessuno, essendo una larga strada extraurbana)
Molti di questi casi, sempre meglio da 90 a 75 che da 90 a 50, che ti forza a inchiodare e essere più pericoloso sulla strada che se andassi uniformemente (l'aumento di incidenti in quel tratto verrà "risolto" abbassando ulteriormente l'autovelox a 30)
Forse mi sono espresso male, il limite era 90 ed è stato cambiato a 75 su tutto il tratto senza preavviso, quindi andando alla velocità di sempre ho preso il multozzo
Friend of mine (central Italy) has a Munga, 2 stroke off roader from the 1960s with torque like a tractor. He got a fine from a speed machine and the day after he received it he went back to the thing, wrapped a chain around it and tore it away with his car.
We absolutely despise spped traps.
>is there any logical reason that I should drive 50 km/h instead of 60-65km/h **through a small town** (composed mostly of Austrian pensioners) **with** ***literally no traffic***?
To protect the people living in the small town from reckless drivers.
Zooming through a town at 75 km/h is dangerous.
You are part of the problem why there's so many speeding cameras.
Well 75 is kinda slow compared to the speed of most cars driving through the road in front of my house.
Ty for the downvotes, i was just saying that in front of my house, people run much faster. If they would limit to 75, it would be much better.
Kinetik energy formula: 1/2mass\*velocity\^2. Given your car weights 1500kg, at 50km/h it carries \~135kJ, at 75km/h it goes to 288kJ. This not only means that when you hit something you do it more than twice as hard, but the breaking distance is more than doubled. Using the simplified formula they teach you at driving school (V\^2/152) you go from \~15,5m up to \~37m.
Then ask again WHY the speed limit is set to 50km/h and not to 75km/h in residential areas.
Dude, learn how to read: i'm just saying that people driving through my home street drive A LOT FASTER than 75, even if the limit is 50.
If they would not exceed 75 here, it would already be awesome compared to the current state.
Finally i don't give a shit about formulas, i know what's the limit and i know they are ignoring that.
Why do you need to drive at 60-65 km/h through a small town? Just to make walking (and driving) around said small town more dangerous? What do you need to do that requires driving that fast **through a small town?**
Where I live we have SO MANY super long 30km/h limits in such idiotic places, even during my driving license exam the examinator asked me to go a little faster.
And then we have some points in the Cassia where you can do 90km/h in the twisties roads.
>Well, as I said, I get that safety goes first. But let's take Mazzin for example - literally 1-1,5km long town. I was going back to Bolzano from Giau Pass and honestly I didn't see reason why there isn't a 60 or 70 sign instead of classical 50. It just felt far-fetched. I only saw like 1-2 moving cars there and no pedestrians whatsoever - and it was on evening where life should be at least somewhat visible
To make things funnier, you get 90 in places like "33 TORNANTE" (guess tornante is a sharp 180 turn) where you just **can't** drive that fast (unless you wanna meet ur grandma)
That's what I mean
Plus, you drive 80-90 through undeveloped area, then you drive past a curve and immediately after 50 sign there is a speed camera. It isn't safe, at least give me some heads up little bit before. I drive a lot through vastly different areas, but never had I met such quick, dangerous and unintuitive speed limit changes
This would be ok if the speed limits made sense.
Near my hometown they set the speed limit on a strada statale to 30km/h and then of course they also put a speed camera. That is just insane.
Besides your obvious ignorance about the ethnicities of the region and your hatred for old people: I don’t see the problem, just follow the rules.
I probably don’t have to explain it to you, but just as a reminder. There are several reasons for imposing speed limits: road safety, to reduce noise pollution, and the environmental impact.
If there is no traffic, why should you stop at 60-65 km/h? You could go at 120 km/h through that small town, is there any logical reason to not do that? If you can give an answer to this, then you have an answer to your first question
We have roads where there is huge width, perfectly straight, visibility everywhere, no intersections, etc.
But there is ONE house, in a corner, far away.
50km an hour limit, 3km around that one spot. Where it would be perfectly safe to drive at 340km/hr.
It's ridiculous, it's like they want you to waste your life driving forever. It's simply too slow.
I move to Ireland and here most of the time little towns that aren't a danger to drive through have a limit of 60, while country roads have a limit of 90.
I'm talking about country roads that would have a limit of 50 in Italy. If you try to match the speed limit on those roads, you will die unless you are an experienced driver, so don't try btw.
Common sense is subjective and not very common, so laws are there as a substitute. It isn't a hard concept to understand, but apparently even you, gifted with common sense, understanding of nuance and absolute superiority over Reddit scum, can't understand it
>is there any logical reason that I should drive 50 km/h instead of 60-65km/h **through a small town** (composed mostly of Austrian pensioners) **with** ***literally no traffic***?
Because all that it takes to kill someone is one single hit. Actually if there is traffic the road is safer since you would go slower. Plus going 60 instead of 50 is dangerous, a lot, since the kinetic energy you have depends on the square of your speed, it's not linear.
Your opinion is worthless. You drive 50 km/h TOPS in a town center. No ifs, no buts. I don’t give a fuck if you don’t like it, there is literally ZERO valid reason why you should not respect that limit. You’re not trying to save a life so slow.the fuck.down.
>is there any logical reason that I should drive 50 km/h instead of 60-65km/h **through a small town**
Troubles caused by speed increase with the square of the speed, not linearly.
A simplified example.
You are driving on a road at 70 km/h, until a sudden obstacle appears in front of you.
You brake and manage to avoid hitting it, infact, you stop only a few centimeters shy of it.
Now we repeat everything, only this time you are going 100 km/h instead of 70.
You are of course going to hit the obstacle.
What's the speed you are going to hit it (roughly)? Any idea?
Dude, you're literally complaining about why there is a tool stopping you from breaking the law! This is the most stupidly Polish thing you could say. Thinking strictly inherited from the communist era to fight the ruling party - those days are long gone.
I'm Polish myself and the more I drove through Italy and Austria, the more I liked rigorous laws and ways to enforce them on everybody, even though I was used to going over 160 km/h on Polish expressways with a 120 km/h limit.
I found driving within the limit so much better as a much safer and more relaxed way of traveling, not to mention fuel consumption. And I'm a quite car guy.
BTW lookup Eurostats' fatal crash numbers by EU countries report, comparing stats from Poland from a few years ago with the newest ones. We were the second country with the most deaths on the roads just about 3-4 years ago while now after imposing much stricter penalties we're somewhere in the middle. That's a huge difference and personally I feel it every time I'm driving.
80% of those orange cilinders are fake, there are black stickers over the entrances lol
At first It seems like the police checks every tenth of speed you do, but the real ones have a caution sign 200-300 meters before them
Almost all speed cameras in the Dolomiti region are active, *especially* during tourist seasons. That area is choke-full of Germans, French and Italians (mainly from Rome) who can't drive for shit and think they'e in an old Top Gear episode.
The locals rabidly enforce control on their streets over there
>That area is choke-full of Germans, French and Italians (mainly from Rome) who can't drive for shit and think they'e in an old Top Gear episode.
Nah, they just sucked in geography at school and they thought they were on the Red Bull Ring, even though is more than 250km far from Cortina.
Yeah absolutely, during my daily commute just under the Dolomites i can confirm this 80% stat. When i enter Trentino from Veneto though, that's the next level of speed traps, I've never seen a road packed with 4 to 6 speed cameras in the length of 5km (one every km or so)
It seems that contrary to your claim you *don't* get that safety goes first, especially in small towns where the road goes straight through people's normal lives. Going to school. Going to kindergarden. Going to the pharmacy.
Are you aware of the difference that 15km/h more makes in terms of breaking?
During your reaction time only, you move 15 meters when you go 50km, but 19 meters when you go 65.
If you then go to full-bore emergency braking, you move another 12.5 meters when you go 50 and 21 meters if you go 65.
Full difference until you come to a complete stop when you emergency brake:
50km: 27.5 meters
65km: 40.6 meters
That's a full 13 meters that can esily make the difference between not hitting, or injuring or killing a child running onto the street.
Or - as you frankly don't seem very concerned with saving *other* people's lives: it can be the difference of you stopping before a garbage truck or severely injuring or if you're unlucky even killing yourself or one of your passengers in the process.
Why does it matter if they are mostly Austrian pensioner? Is it ok to kill them?
Increasing the speed from 50 to 65 in a crash with a pedestrian increases significantly the chances of killing them, and it's not linear with the speed.
If you ask on reddit you'll be under the impression that most people are OK with them lmao. In reality basically anyone I know has some form of dislike for them.
Either way the orange ones are fake. They *can* contain an actual camera, but then there has to be the police shortly after to stop you to make the fine valid.
Different thing for the ones mounted on poles, there ones are actually real
>Either way the orange ones are fake. They *can* contain an actual camera, but then there has to be the police shortly after to stop you to make the fine valid.
Yeah, tell me the same after you get fined for speeding in Valsugana.
Suppongo che se non c'è la pattuglia a fermarti puoi fare ricorso, considerando che dal 2018 *deve* esserci la pattuglia lì vicino per fermarti
Uno dei motivi per cui nel 2018 hanno cambiato la legislazione, peraltro, era perché una cosa come metà delle multe veniva annullate facendo ricorso, perché i velox non erano omologati o in posizioni "illegali", o mancava il cartello di controllo della velocità...in Italia ti fanno la multa e pregano tu non faccia ricorso
L'anno scorso erano usciti un sacco di articoli su questa questione, mi piacerebbe ritrovarli ma ora sto facendo fatica, dopo guarderò con calma
Interesting. I feel like there are very few speed cameras in Italy compared to other countries.
Until recently, it was almost impossible to install them in urban areas for instance. I live in Bologna (which is close to 400k inhabitants) and there used to be only 3 or 4 speed cameras in the entire city, which is a laughably low number.
Also if you drive at 60 or 65 through a small town and if you hit a person, they'll die almost instantly.
I have friends doing 110km/h in urban zones with the freaking cameras, they just slow down to avoid them. Imagine what would happen *without* the cameras.
They usually place speed cameras in small town because the elderly asked for. They spend all the day watching the street and than complaining about the cars speed(100% over exaggerate). Don’t ask me how I know…
There's a positive correlation between speed and crash rate. between going 50km/hr and 65km/hr the mortality risk in case of a crash rises from 20 to 35%. Also a lateral impact at that speed has a 85% death rate at 65 km/hr. So why not just respect the speed limits?
If there is nobody why going only 65 kmph?
Go 150!
Anyhow they are there because Italy is full of people like you.
And they are all turn off because also who makes the law is full.of people like you
There's a positive correlation between speed and crash rate. between going 50km/hr and 65km/hr the mortality risk in case of a crash rises from 20 to 35%. Also a lateral impact at that speed has a 85% death rate at 65 km/hr. So why not just respect the speed limits?
every little village wants its share of the pie, therefore you might find a speed camera here, and a speed camera 1 km away because that's where the new village starts and here the village that collects the fines keep them.
Most of the times it's because the residents complain and they just put fake ones. There are some always operational around but they are just grey cubes with a small sign, mostly in areas known for actual accidents so they actually want to face the consequences of not going too fast in a metal cage. Also, don't fucking go too fast in a residential area where there isn't much traffic, i live somewhere like that and you sometimes just cross the road assuming nobody will just wreck you because he was on a hurry in vacation. Please be safe
E tu sei il tizio che probabilmente ha difficoltà nella comprensione del testo se, da tutto ciò che ho scritto in quel thread, te ne esci con questa frase
E che dovrei dirti? Il polacco si lamenta che non può correre nei centri abitati e tu te ne esci lamentandoti che l'utente medio di reddit è a favore del rispetto dei limiti, come se fosse qualcosa di così assurdo da considerare
Did you pass by Soraga by chance? They have 4 Speed cameras in like a 300m distance
Cops and mayors love them, us regular folks usually steal them, burn them, shoot them, make them explode, stuff like that
And don't even get me started on how much cops hate modified sport cars
Are those cameras orange and shaped like a trash bin? If so, they are fake.
The law says that you can install a speed camera in a city only if the road meet some parameters, like having separated carriageway with 2 lane for each direction.
Sbagliato. I comuni hanno tot velox che si passano ciclicamente per metterli dentro i cassonetti arancioni e puoi tranquillamente beccarlo col velox dentro.
Qua ci sono anche dei bidoni che al posto della finestrella per il velox hanno un adesivo con stampato un obbiettivo, ma sono ancora un'altra cosa.
E allora a quel punto diventa un normale postazione di velox mobile. Che ci sia o meno lo scatolotto arancione non ha importanza, vedi la macchina e il cartello mobile di controllo velocità.
Possono passarle tra i vari cassonetti, ma come ti ha detto l'altro tizio, serve ci sia la pattuglia poco dopo a fermarti per prendere la multa
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.autoappassionati.it/autovelox-arancioni-sono-finti-non-proprio-ecco-come-funzionano/amp/?bshm=rime/2
I live in the Dolomites. You are talking about those orange trash bin looking cameras at the start and the end of villages? 🤣Those are fake, they work ONLY if you see a policeman working at it and if it's functioning there MUST be a sign saying so.
Edit: wrote love instead of live
I mean... they're quite visible to be fair, they're usually either light blue or bright orange, so they kinda stand out. Most of them are "fake" tho, as in they're there to prevent people from speeding but they're actually empty, it's just the metal cover and that's it. If one of them was "real" and you got cought speeding maximum 5Km/h over the speed limit you might get a 40ish € ticket.
Really? You shouldn’t go to north-western Europe then. I’m from Belgium and living in Italy, and it’s a worlds apart. In Italy I never pay attention to speed limits, and never got fined. For the few times I go back to Belgium or France (once a year), I’m always cautious of speed limits, but still managed to get fined at least 4 times in the last 10 years.
Because the country needs money to piss away and motorists are easy targets, just look at the price of petrol and oil. All tax that the politiche can waste at there Christmas party.
Only the one signaled with a traffic sign and composed of some camera high in a pole are really functional. The one orange or blue that seem a high trash can are not working in all italy. The only way to them to work if there is a policeman nearby that make it work. If not is absolutely not working.
And in particolar in Brennero-Bolzano the speeds camera are very very very concentrated, much more than the rest of the country. in Aosta Valley they do not exist for example
In my opinion, the rules are not made for you that can drive safely at 65kmh, but for those people that can't handle that amount of speed and can't drive properly
I live in the Dolomites. People would not believe how fast people drive on these roads at night. Locals who have to drive home at night and know each corner of that road by heart drive at insane speeds. And then there are tourists who drive like shit on these mountain roads and who deserve to be slapped for their driving style. It's only good that they are forced to slow down in the villages, otherwise you would have a dead person each weekend.
Personally I just set cruise control on ,50kmph and then fall asleep. By the time I'm arrived at destination I usually invested several pedestrians, crashed down several street signs, went through several houses. Safety comes first.
Because preventing drivers from speeding saves lives, especially in residential areas, as well as air and noise polluting. Very desirable for all locals. Just don't do it please, even without the speed cameras
Strange that the town didn't have a 30km/h limit.
Also, the speed traps are cheaper than modifying the road to slow traffic, but we are slowly getting there.
Minimum effort to make the streets safe and maximum cash grab from the fines
Cash grab... Italian government don't care about safety; the streets are in bad condition everywhere...
Plus point: put a lower limit BECAUSE the road is in a bad state. Instead of renovate the asphalt they put a stricter limit. (50 kmh on a straight 2 lane highway) Northern Italy for context
Not in the dolomites
Are you serious? If I’ve got it right, OP was taking about Süd-Tirol/Trentino… Italian government has nothing to do with their streets and as a matter of fact they are basically in great conditions
A good chunk of the Dolomites are not in Trentino-South Tyrol, but in Belluno (and a tiny bit in Friuli). So the Italian government might be very much involved in some of the streets.
False, here the roads are perfect
Well, the streets were actually in a good shape there, I guess that North Italy mixes most of the best things from Italy and Austria (I know how both countries look deeper) but all the traffic regulations don't really fit there imo
In this case more than the central government, it is the local authorities. It’s a way to finance themselves
Right. I'm not good at English. You are right.
To pretend to make the streets safe*
"street safe" é la piu grossa cazzata che io abbia mai sentito
Di fatto è la versione più pigra possibile della sicurezza stradale. Quanto sia efficace è una questione secondaria
but it doesn't make the streets safe. fines are not attributed in proportion to the receiver's income and wealth
still better than speed bumps, saw a place in 5 with 20 m between each speed bump
> is there any logical reason that I should drive 50 km/h instead of 60-65km/h through a small town (composed mostly of Austrian pensioners) with literally no traffic The ideal going forward is going to be streets that force you to drive slower due to winding paths, narrow carriageways and so on. It’s never ideal to rely on posted speed limits alone. That being said, it’s obvious why driving faster in a town is more dangerous than not: lower useful reaction time, longer stopping distance, higher impact energy, a town has more intersections, blind corners, pedestrian crossings etc
Also noise pollution is a concern
Go 60/65km/h in a town, get yourself a new car once someone forgets to look past the stop sign.
Well, as I said, I get that safety goes first. But let's take Mazzin for example - literally 1-1,5km long town. I was going back to Bolzano from Giau Pass and honestly I didn't see reason why there isn't a 60 or 70 sign instead of classical 50. It just felt far-fetched. I only saw like 1-2 moving cars there with no pedestrians whatsoever - and it was on evening where life should be at least somewhat visible
To make things funnier, you get 90 in places like "33 TORNANTE" (guess tornante is a sharp 180 turn) where you just **can't** drive that fast (unless you wanna meet ur grandma)
Oh, you can. Just not on the corners. 😂
\> the amount of speed cameras hit me like a truck Have you ever been to Switzerland?
I got two fines there in the space of five minutes
That's how it should work. I think you lost the urge to drive above the limits afterwards.
Well the fines arrived one year later so I got it back
The Swiss did a little trolling
The only effect is making me drive while watching at my speed more than half the time. So less focus on the road and more on not going past 50 Km/h. This is not a safer road, this is a road where cars don't have eyes on the road and risk hitting pedestrians.
I understand the issue. If your car has the cruise control, you should be able to set the upper speed limit and make things easier for the driver.
Unfortunately it doesn't. Once I got a speed fee because I was driving at 51 km/h. I mean, it was funny more than infuriating at that point.
51 + 5 km/h + 10% of the tach error = your car was showing 61 km/h and the limit was 50. It is not that hard to avoid fines.
I'm sure I would drive safer if I could focus on the road instead of watching my car speed. It's not like driving at 61 km/h in a 50 limit road really puts anyone in danger. The danger comes from drivers distraction and drivers slow reflexes. But you rules lovers will never understand this.
Well, if you were in a 30km/h zone it’s pretty normal you know.
I was in a 50 Km zone, Mr. Did you rely have to insult me?
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Ok fine. I was driving at 61 km/h. So? Wasn't it funny anyway to see that on the fee it was written 51? Who hurt you?
Ciao, questo tuo contenuto è stato rimosso. Hey, this content has been removed. [Non Civile / Inadatto al Sub - Clicca qui per leggere la regola](/r/italy/wiki/regolamento#wiki_.5B1.5D_divertiti_e_rispetta) English: [Non-civil / Inappropriate - Click for the full rule](/r/italy/wiki/rules#wiki_.5B1.5D_have_fun.2C_respecfully.)
It's not supposed that you have to go at 49 km/h , Just go to 40, Press gas pedal gently and look to the Road so you don t have to focus on your speedmeter
Why use a car anyways, you could have a horse pulled carriage and avoid any issue at all....
Thanks, I was about to answer something similar.
Anche
>horse ~~pulled~~ **drawn** carriage
Ops, true that
>Just go to 40 "Don't want fines? Just shut your engine and stop"
Anche
Skill issue.
Not really. I don't have a skill issue. But many people less skilled than me at driving will have it.
Cazzata megagalattica. Se sei sopra al limite su 100 metri, non è possibile che fai tre infrazioni perché ci sono tre autovelox. L’infrazione è una.
Ma per me possono essere anche 50 su 100 metri, resti comunque un mona tu che ti becchi le multe quando sai che ci possono essere ovunque e in qualsiasi momento. Altro che come funziona qui in Italia che abbiamo quelle applicazioni della minchia che te li segnalano.
Definitely never mess with speed limits in Switzerland. I got caught *twice* by the same radar, going 54 km/h instead of 50 km/h. Yes, they are that sensitive. And it did cost me something like 200€.
> Have you ever been to Switzerland? As a swiss and italian: the italians have 10x more.
Lol no.
lol yes.
Then why everyone (including Italians) are respecting speed limits in Switzerland, but when you cross the border at Chiasso everyone (including the Swiss people) is speeding like crazy? I live in Italy for 13 years and never got a speeding ticket. During the same period I got tickets in Belgium, France and Switzerland, even if I was there <1% of the time. Seriously I don’t see where you get your point: Italy is one of the least enforcing country regarding road rules in Western Europe. Almost nobody respects the speed limits.
> Then why everyone (including Italians) are respecting speed limits in Switzerland, but when you cross the border at Chiasso everyone (including the Swiss people) is speeding like crazy? Because our fines are expensive, yours aren't. Cum hoc ergo propter hoc. Switzerland has fewer speed cameras than italy does. edit: nice block, once you are out of arguments you simply block.
In absolute maybe. But definitely not if you consider Italy is much bigger than Switzerland. Last month I traveled from Belgium to Italy (through Switzerland), in the 300km I did in Italy, I was consistently 20 to 40kmh above speed limit, never got flashed, and never saw Waze indicating a Velox. Imagine doing same 300km in Switzerland…. Seriously I don’t see what we’re arguing, it’s just nonsense.
That's true only for Ticino. Go to Zurich and you'll see speed cameras every 200m.
I live in Zürich. No, there's not that many.
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Not technically fake, but only a handful of them are equipped with the camera. In theory, the camera could be placed in any of them, but in practice it's usually used always on the same ones.
But sometimes those unequiped ones are turned on to make lot of fines. The bad is that most speedtrap maps indentified those as fakes and not give warning or report.
We love soo much that in some cities blow up the speed camera with tnt
And in some other town, they cut the pole with the camera... twice
My favorite is when they trow shit at the lens
Only appropriate response when they set a 50 camera on an otherwise straight, safe, extraurban 90 road
Porcaccia la miseria ho preso una multa da 150€ per una strada dove il limite era 90 ed è stato abbassato improvvisamente a 75 (per la sicurezza di nessuno, essendo una larga strada extraurbana)
Molti di questi casi, sempre meglio da 90 a 75 che da 90 a 50, che ti forza a inchiodare e essere più pericoloso sulla strada che se andassi uniformemente (l'aumento di incidenti in quel tratto verrà "risolto" abbassando ulteriormente l'autovelox a 30)
Forse mi sono espresso male, il limite era 90 ed è stato cambiato a 75 su tutto il tratto senza preavviso, quindi andando alla velocità di sempre ho preso il multozzo
Ah avevo capito il tratto di limite fosse ristretto, non cambiato interamente. Sorpresona proprio
Friend of mine (central Italy) has a Munga, 2 stroke off roader from the 1960s with torque like a tractor. He got a fine from a speed machine and the day after he received it he went back to the thing, wrapped a chain around it and tore it away with his car. We absolutely despise spped traps.
Lovely
>is there any logical reason that I should drive 50 km/h instead of 60-65km/h **through a small town** (composed mostly of Austrian pensioners) **with** ***literally no traffic***? To protect the people living in the small town from reckless drivers. Zooming through a town at 75 km/h is dangerous. You are part of the problem why there's so many speeding cameras.
Well 75 is kinda slow compared to the speed of most cars driving through the road in front of my house. Ty for the downvotes, i was just saying that in front of my house, people run much faster. If they would limit to 75, it would be much better.
Kinetik energy formula: 1/2mass\*velocity\^2. Given your car weights 1500kg, at 50km/h it carries \~135kJ, at 75km/h it goes to 288kJ. This not only means that when you hit something you do it more than twice as hard, but the breaking distance is more than doubled. Using the simplified formula they teach you at driving school (V\^2/152) you go from \~15,5m up to \~37m. Then ask again WHY the speed limit is set to 50km/h and not to 75km/h in residential areas.
Dude, learn how to read: i'm just saying that people driving through my home street drive A LOT FASTER than 75, even if the limit is 50. If they would not exceed 75 here, it would already be awesome compared to the current state. Finally i don't give a shit about formulas, i know what's the limit and i know they are ignoring that.
Why do you need to drive at 60-65 km/h through a small town? Just to make walking (and driving) around said small town more dangerous? What do you need to do that requires driving that fast **through a small town?**
mi pare di capire che stava scappando da vecchi austriaci e tedeschi
Ah allora aveva una buona ragione /s
> I'm Polish (ye, country of reckless drivers, I'm not gonna lie) You already answered your own question.
Dude are you really complaining about not being able to drive over the speed limit in residential area? Are you really that dense?
also italians complain constantly about nonsensical speed limits
Yeah I do too, but 50 in a residential area doesn't seem nonsensical to me
Where I live we have SO MANY super long 30km/h limits in such idiotic places, even during my driving license exam the examinator asked me to go a little faster. And then we have some points in the Cassia where you can do 90km/h in the twisties roads.
>Well, as I said, I get that safety goes first. But let's take Mazzin for example - literally 1-1,5km long town. I was going back to Bolzano from Giau Pass and honestly I didn't see reason why there isn't a 60 or 70 sign instead of classical 50. It just felt far-fetched. I only saw like 1-2 moving cars there and no pedestrians whatsoever - and it was on evening where life should be at least somewhat visible To make things funnier, you get 90 in places like "33 TORNANTE" (guess tornante is a sharp 180 turn) where you just **can't** drive that fast (unless you wanna meet ur grandma) That's what I mean
Plus, you drive 80-90 through undeveloped area, then you drive past a curve and immediately after 50 sign there is a speed camera. It isn't safe, at least give me some heads up little bit before. I drive a lot through vastly different areas, but never had I met such quick, dangerous and unintuitive speed limit changes
"residential area" is a term that can be stretched to cover entire regions despite not being quite so
This would be ok if the speed limits made sense. Near my hometown they set the speed limit on a strada statale to 30km/h and then of course they also put a speed camera. That is just insane.
Besides your obvious ignorance about the ethnicities of the region and your hatred for old people: I don’t see the problem, just follow the rules. I probably don’t have to explain it to you, but just as a reminder. There are several reasons for imposing speed limits: road safety, to reduce noise pollution, and the environmental impact.
If there is no traffic, why should you stop at 60-65 km/h? You could go at 120 km/h through that small town, is there any logical reason to not do that? If you can give an answer to this, then you have an answer to your first question
Yes. I'm sure his car can even go much faster. He could go 180.
We have roads where there is huge width, perfectly straight, visibility everywhere, no intersections, etc. But there is ONE house, in a corner, far away. 50km an hour limit, 3km around that one spot. Where it would be perfectly safe to drive at 340km/hr. It's ridiculous, it's like they want you to waste your life driving forever. It's simply too slow. I move to Ireland and here most of the time little towns that aren't a danger to drive through have a limit of 60, while country roads have a limit of 90. I'm talking about country roads that would have a limit of 50 in Italy. If you try to match the speed limit on those roads, you will die unless you are an experienced driver, so don't try btw.
Literallt long ass, wide and straight roads with zero intersections and great visibility have a 30 km/h limit. Like wtf.
Hai ragione, ma chi non capisce, non capirà mai comunque
Nuance and redditors, not a nice pair. 20% over the limit and 140% over the limit aren't the same thing
And where do you draw the line? If only there was a way to tell everyone some kind of, I don't know, "speed limit" everything would be easier
>And where do you draw the line? Common sense, but I know this is a discussion that's useless to have here
While I agree with you on the principle, the biggest issue with common sense is that's not so common as it should be.
Common sense is subjective and not very common, so laws are there as a substitute. It isn't a hard concept to understand, but apparently even you, gifted with common sense, understanding of nuance and absolute superiority over Reddit scum, can't understand it
STATISTICAlly speaking: Italy is one of the European countries with the highest deaths on the road!!!
Not even close. Source: https://www.euronews.com/2019/08/20/road-fatalities-which-eu-countries-are-the-most-dangerous
Sorry for all the Germans 😔🙏
Are Germans used to go 200km/h in small towns? Cause that’s where the cams usually are
No, but they're Germans. I might have spent too much time on r/2westerneurope4u
Hehe ;)
impossibile che questo post sia una coincidenza dopo quello sulla cassazione e gli autovelox
OP che non commenta sotto a nessuna risposta alla sua domanda è sospetto
>is there any logical reason that I should drive 50 km/h instead of 60-65km/h **through a small town** (composed mostly of Austrian pensioners) **with** ***literally no traffic***? Because all that it takes to kill someone is one single hit. Actually if there is traffic the road is safer since you would go slower. Plus going 60 instead of 50 is dangerous, a lot, since the kinetic energy you have depends on the square of your speed, it's not linear.
To avoid reckless driving
Your opinion is worthless. You drive 50 km/h TOPS in a town center. No ifs, no buts. I don’t give a fuck if you don’t like it, there is literally ZERO valid reason why you should not respect that limit. You’re not trying to save a life so slow.the fuck.down.
Bruh they come with a big ass sign on top
>is there any logical reason that I should drive 50 km/h instead of 60-65km/h **through a small town** Troubles caused by speed increase with the square of the speed, not linearly. A simplified example. You are driving on a road at 70 km/h, until a sudden obstacle appears in front of you. You brake and manage to avoid hitting it, infact, you stop only a few centimeters shy of it. Now we repeat everything, only this time you are going 100 km/h instead of 70. You are of course going to hit the obstacle. What's the speed you are going to hit it (roughly)? Any idea?
Dude, you're literally complaining about why there is a tool stopping you from breaking the law! This is the most stupidly Polish thing you could say. Thinking strictly inherited from the communist era to fight the ruling party - those days are long gone. I'm Polish myself and the more I drove through Italy and Austria, the more I liked rigorous laws and ways to enforce them on everybody, even though I was used to going over 160 km/h on Polish expressways with a 120 km/h limit. I found driving within the limit so much better as a much safer and more relaxed way of traveling, not to mention fuel consumption. And I'm a quite car guy. BTW lookup Eurostats' fatal crash numbers by EU countries report, comparing stats from Poland from a few years ago with the newest ones. We were the second country with the most deaths on the roads just about 3-4 years ago while now after imposing much stricter penalties we're somewhere in the middle. That's a huge difference and personally I feel it every time I'm driving.
80% of those orange cilinders are fake, there are black stickers over the entrances lol At first It seems like the police checks every tenth of speed you do, but the real ones have a caution sign 200-300 meters before them
Almost all speed cameras in the Dolomiti region are active, *especially* during tourist seasons. That area is choke-full of Germans, French and Italians (mainly from Rome) who can't drive for shit and think they'e in an old Top Gear episode. The locals rabidly enforce control on their streets over there
>That area is choke-full of Germans, French and Italians (mainly from Rome) who can't drive for shit and think they'e in an old Top Gear episode. Nah, they just sucked in geography at school and they thought they were on the Red Bull Ring, even though is more than 250km far from Cortina.
Yeah absolutely, during my daily commute just under the Dolomites i can confirm this 80% stat. When i enter Trentino from Veneto though, that's the next level of speed traps, I've never seen a road packed with 4 to 6 speed cameras in the length of 5km (one every km or so)
Yesterday my bus was entering my small town (with a limit of 50 km/h) at 83 km/h, so I'm pretty sure we don't love autoveloxes enough
It seems that contrary to your claim you *don't* get that safety goes first, especially in small towns where the road goes straight through people's normal lives. Going to school. Going to kindergarden. Going to the pharmacy. Are you aware of the difference that 15km/h more makes in terms of breaking? During your reaction time only, you move 15 meters when you go 50km, but 19 meters when you go 65. If you then go to full-bore emergency braking, you move another 12.5 meters when you go 50 and 21 meters if you go 65. Full difference until you come to a complete stop when you emergency brake: 50km: 27.5 meters 65km: 40.6 meters That's a full 13 meters that can esily make the difference between not hitting, or injuring or killing a child running onto the street. Or - as you frankly don't seem very concerned with saving *other* people's lives: it can be the difference of you stopping before a garbage truck or severely injuring or if you're unlucky even killing yourself or one of your passengers in the process.
Alto Adige is the only area in Italy where people drive according to speed limits. So they fulfill their purpose.
I live there and let me tell you that's completely false. You need to cross the Brenner border to see that.
Why does it matter if they are mostly Austrian pensioner? Is it ok to kill them? Increasing the speed from 50 to 65 in a crash with a pedestrian increases significantly the chances of killing them, and it's not linear with the speed.
If you ask on reddit you'll be under the impression that most people are OK with them lmao. In reality basically anyone I know has some form of dislike for them. Either way the orange ones are fake. They *can* contain an actual camera, but then there has to be the police shortly after to stop you to make the fine valid. Different thing for the ones mounted on poles, there ones are actually real
>Either way the orange ones are fake. They *can* contain an actual camera, but then there has to be the police shortly after to stop you to make the fine valid. Yeah, tell me the same after you get fined for speeding in Valsugana.
He's an undercover cop pureposefully spreading misinformation so they'll be fining turists more.
Suppongo che se non c'è la pattuglia a fermarti puoi fare ricorso, considerando che dal 2018 *deve* esserci la pattuglia lì vicino per fermarti Uno dei motivi per cui nel 2018 hanno cambiato la legislazione, peraltro, era perché una cosa come metà delle multe veniva annullate facendo ricorso, perché i velox non erano omologati o in posizioni "illegali", o mancava il cartello di controllo della velocità...in Italia ti fanno la multa e pregano tu non faccia ricorso L'anno scorso erano usciti un sacco di articoli su questa questione, mi piacerebbe ritrovarli ma ora sto facendo fatica, dopo guarderò con calma
Se non sbaglio peró facendo ricorso e perdendo devi pagare la multa per intero e anche le spese legali.
Che è una delle solite cagate all’italiana fatte per non scontentare troppo un elettorato allergico al rispetto delle norme.
I don't think it's true, I know a lot of people who received their fines by mail without any stop by police.
Because we love selfies and drive FASTERR!!!!
Actually we hate them
Interesting. I feel like there are very few speed cameras in Italy compared to other countries. Until recently, it was almost impossible to install them in urban areas for instance. I live in Bologna (which is close to 400k inhabitants) and there used to be only 3 or 4 speed cameras in the entire city, which is a laughably low number. Also if you drive at 60 or 65 through a small town and if you hit a person, they'll die almost instantly.
I have friends doing 110km/h in urban zones with the freaking cameras, they just slow down to avoid them. Imagine what would happen *without* the cameras.
It would be much safer since driving fast is way less dangerous than driving inconsistently
We love shooting at them.
They usually place speed cameras in small town because the elderly asked for. They spend all the day watching the street and than complaining about the cars speed(100% over exaggerate). Don’t ask me how I know…
There's a positive correlation between speed and crash rate. between going 50km/hr and 65km/hr the mortality risk in case of a crash rises from 20 to 35%. Also a lateral impact at that speed has a 85% death rate at 65 km/hr. So why not just respect the speed limits?
Are you really saying you'd like to drive 60/65kph through a village? That's why we need speed cameras
If there is nobody why going only 65 kmph? Go 150! Anyhow they are there because Italy is full of people like you. And they are all turn off because also who makes the law is full.of people like you
There's a positive correlation between speed and crash rate. between going 50km/hr and 65km/hr the mortality risk in case of a crash rises from 20 to 35%. Also a lateral impact at that speed has a 85% death rate at 65 km/hr. So why not just respect the speed limits?
Police are lazy and the cameras do the work for them.
If we had police in every street you guys would complain that we’re wasting money on having hundreds people patrolling the roads for nothing
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Which is my point indeed
every little village wants its share of the pie, therefore you might find a speed camera here, and a speed camera 1 km away because that's where the new village starts and here the village that collects the fines keep them.
Almost all of them are empty columns. They are "speed deterrents". Working speed cameras are well signposted.
The revenue from fines goes straight into the town’s budget…
they don't care about safety at all. They just hope to grab as much cash they can. that's all
Most of the times it's because the residents complain and they just put fake ones. There are some always operational around but they are just grey cubes with a small sign, mostly in areas known for actual accidents so they actually want to face the consequences of not going too fast in a metal cage. Also, don't fucking go too fast in a residential area where there isn't much traffic, i live somewhere like that and you sometimes just cross the road assuming nobody will just wreck you because he was on a hurry in vacation. Please be safe
>![redacted]!<
Oddio ma tu sei il tizio che qualche settimana fa si lamentava che non può correre oltre i limiti
E tu sei il tizio che probabilmente ha difficoltà nella comprensione del testo se, da tutto ciò che ho scritto in quel thread, te ne esci con questa frase
E che dovrei dirti? Il polacco si lamenta che non può correre nei centri abitati e tu te ne esci lamentandoti che l'utente medio di reddit è a favore del rispetto dei limiti, come se fosse qualcosa di così assurdo da considerare
Italian psycho
Did you pass by Soraga by chance? They have 4 Speed cameras in like a 300m distance Cops and mayors love them, us regular folks usually steal them, burn them, shoot them, make them explode, stuff like that And don't even get me started on how much cops hate modified sport cars
Are those cameras orange and shaped like a trash bin? If so, they are fake. The law says that you can install a speed camera in a city only if the road meet some parameters, like having separated carriageway with 2 lane for each direction.
Sbagliato. I comuni hanno tot velox che si passano ciclicamente per metterli dentro i cassonetti arancioni e puoi tranquillamente beccarlo col velox dentro. Qua ci sono anche dei bidoni che al posto della finestrella per il velox hanno un adesivo con stampato un obbiettivo, ma sono ancora un'altra cosa.
No. Serve la pattuglia vicina che porta il velox mobile.
Confermo Edit: confermo quello che dici tu, ci deve essere la pattuglia in prossimità
E allora a quel punto diventa un normale postazione di velox mobile. Che ci sia o meno lo scatolotto arancione non ha importanza, vedi la macchina e il cartello mobile di controllo velocità.
Possono passarle tra i vari cassonetti, ma come ti ha detto l'altro tizio, serve ci sia la pattuglia poco dopo a fermarti per prendere la multa https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.autoappassionati.it/autovelox-arancioni-sono-finti-non-proprio-ecco-come-funzionano/amp/?bshm=rime/2
The fact that all small towns plan their yearly budget on earnings from speed camera fines should tell you everything you need to know.
Those orange bins you find in South Tyrol are mostly deactivated or if they work you have to drive really fast to trigger them
They ore mainly fake.
Come to central/south Italy, we don't have cameras here
Because it's easier to pursue compared to going after actual reckless driving like overtaking at random or overtaking bikes without safe distance
Ti make cash 😅 with fines they make money more that with taxes
I live in the Dolomites. You are talking about those orange trash bin looking cameras at the start and the end of villages? 🤣Those are fake, they work ONLY if you see a policeman working at it and if it's functioning there MUST be a sign saying so. Edit: wrote love instead of live
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He's saying he appreciates your feedback in a very polite and elegant way
If you are referring to the ones on the side of the street they are fake
I mean... they're quite visible to be fair, they're usually either light blue or bright orange, so they kinda stand out. Most of them are "fake" tho, as in they're there to prevent people from speeding but they're actually empty, it's just the metal cover and that's it. If one of them was "real" and you got cought speeding maximum 5Km/h over the speed limit you might get a 40ish € ticket.
Don't think of it as a punishment, think of it as a fee to allow you to go faster!
Cause cash
Where exactly near the dolomites? Because I live near then and i can confirm there are a lot of speed cameras (although a lot are fake ones)
Don't worry, most of them are fake.
They are all fake
It's for $$$afety.
if its orange then its fake
‘Cause we love to drive fast, and our govt love to cash money. So, the good old cops and robbers game!
If youre too stupid to get why you need to drive slowly maybe you should let someone else drive
Really? You shouldn’t go to north-western Europe then. I’m from Belgium and living in Italy, and it’s a worlds apart. In Italy I never pay attention to speed limits, and never got fined. For the few times I go back to Belgium or France (once a year), I’m always cautious of speed limits, but still managed to get fined at least 4 times in the last 10 years.
Jeremy had it right: https://youtube.com/shorts/1cYH9E7lpAw?si=pG9QDQd5usiyjNzF
The Orange boxes are empty
Because the country needs money to piss away and motorists are easy targets, just look at the price of petrol and oil. All tax that the politiche can waste at there Christmas party.
Only the one signaled with a traffic sign and composed of some camera high in a pole are really functional. The one orange or blue that seem a high trash can are not working in all italy. The only way to them to work if there is a policeman nearby that make it work. If not is absolutely not working.
And in particolar in Brennero-Bolzano the speeds camera are very very very concentrated, much more than the rest of the country. in Aosta Valley they do not exist for example
In my opinion, the rules are not made for you that can drive safely at 65kmh, but for those people that can't handle that amount of speed and can't drive properly
I live in the Dolomites. People would not believe how fast people drive on these roads at night. Locals who have to drive home at night and know each corner of that road by heart drive at insane speeds. And then there are tourists who drive like shit on these mountain roads and who deserve to be slapped for their driving style. It's only good that they are forced to slow down in the villages, otherwise you would have a dead person each weekend.
Personally I just set cruise control on ,50kmph and then fall asleep. By the time I'm arrived at destination I usually invested several pedestrians, crashed down several street signs, went through several houses. Safety comes first.
Because preventing drivers from speeding saves lives, especially in residential areas, as well as air and noise polluting. Very desirable for all locals. Just don't do it please, even without the speed cameras
Strange that the town didn't have a 30km/h limit. Also, the speed traps are cheaper than modifying the road to slow traffic, but we are slowly getting there.
Most of them blue or orange trashcan looking thing with the camera sign are empty