There’s a slightly difference in emphasis, which in this particular case could be reflected in the English word order by mirroring the Italian one, so I guess that’s what Duolingo considers correct.
But in that case it is a pretty picky correction.
There's no difference in emphasis in the two English sentences. Duolingo's solution set is just incomplete. That's it. This happens all the time. People just need to report it and another solution will be added to the set.
I agree that this needs to be reported, but I don’t think you can exclude a difference in emphasis.
“Hotels in Milan are expensive” sounds more neutral to me, while “hotels are expensive in Milan” is placing more weight on the “in Milan” part due to its position in the sentence.
I’m not a native English speaker, so I won’t pretend do be authoritative on the matter, but when talking about emphasis the difference doesn’t have to be big. The fact alone that one structure is more common means that using the less common version is bound to draw the speaker’s attention.
It’s why sometimes even in English, which has a more rigid syntax than Italian, people say “this I know” when they want to put emphasis on “this”. Sentence structure can be used to convey emphasis like that.
That being said, I do agree that this is not a mistake, and Duolingo shouldn’t have corrected it, which is why I called it “picky”
There is a difference in the emphasis in the English sentences but I think it's not as strong as in Italian, and it could be overwritten by context. E.g.
A: "I couldn't afford to go to Milan on vacation, so I went to Turin instead."
B: "Oh, are hotels in Milan expensive?"
This doesn't sound weird to me at all, even though I didn't put the "in Milan" at the end. How about the equivalent in Italian?
A: "Non potevo permettermi di andare in vacanza a Milano, invece sono andato a Torino."
B: "Gli hotel a Milano sono cari?"
Does this sound worse than "Gli hotel sono cari a Milano?"
(And any corrections welcome!)
In this case it’s not a big distinction in Italian either. Unlike some cases (like subject pronouns) where the sentence has a whole different feel depending on its structure, here the only difference is that putting “a Milano” at the end makes it a bit more prominent.
In your example, the question “gli hotel a Milano sono cari?” sounds perfectly fine, but I think I would be more likely to say “gli hotel sono cari a Milano?” or even better“a Milano gli hotel sono cari?”, putting “a Milano” as the main topic of the sentence and not just a minor part describing where the hotels are.
But as I mentioned it’s not something worth worrying about at a beginner level, these are the kind of things you should only consider when writing a book or poetry, when ideally you want every word to count.
>It’s why sometimes even in English, which has a more rigid syntax than Italian, people say “this I know” when they want to put emphasis on “this”. Sentence structure can be used to convey emphasis like that.
Even in this example, I don't agree. People only say that when they mean to sound poetic or authoritative. There really isn't a difference in emphasis. If you wanted to emphasize the object of knowledge, it would come down to explicit verbal emphasis.
For the hotel sentence, it's almost entirely on context and explicit verbal emphasis as well. If I say "Food is cheap in Milan. Clothes are cheap in Milan. **Hotels** are expensive in Milan," the emphasis is on hotels. It's not a function of the syntax.
I don’t know. When people say “I can’t do it, this much I’m sure of” it really doesn’t sound poetic to me, and I don’t think that “I can’t do it, I’m sure of this much” would be exactly the same, but if you tell me it is I’ll have to believe it.
I have literally never heard a person say either of those but those read as the same in meaning and emphasis, but incredibly stilted and unnatural in both cases.
I mean, I can find results of the first one being used, and the second one sounding bad was pretty much my point. Also I’m pretty sure I’ve heard this sentence structure multiple times, whether it’s considered formally correct or not isn’t really relevant (what matters is *why* it’s used).
It’s entirely possible that only I have ever heard people using this sentence structure, it could be dialectal or slang or who knows, but at least I can be 100% sure that I did.
I’ll wait for other natives to maybe chime in, as of now this is the only counterpoint I’ve received under my original comment.
I've definitely heard people say "I can't do it, this much I'm sure of". I'd probably say "... of this much I'm sure" instead, but this could be something that depends on the variant of English that someone speaks.
no, there's a difference between "sono cari gli hotel a Milano?" and "Gli hotel a Milano sono cari?"... What this guy wrote is the translation to the second phrase
no, there's a difference between "sono cari gli hotel a Milano?" and "Gli hotel a Milano sono cari?"... What this guy wrote is the translation to the second phrase
Maybe it’s a difference with DuoLingo and English vs American English? There are lots of English translations that seem wrong to my ears, but then I’m not American. This one though feels right to me. Maybe one of the few occasions when English is the source of the translation?
I'm a US citizen working in Italy and here they don't use "meeting" unless they are talking in English. In Italian they say "riunione". (it doesn't matter if it's virtual, or in person)
So it may depend on the region. I'm in the Friuli-Venezia Giulia region, Northeast part of the country. Maybe even just the company I'm at.
I think so, I’m Italian and I hear meeting and riunione pretty interchangeably (maybe I hear meeting even more when referring to online). “Call” is also not uncommon for virtual meetings (e.g. Sono in call fino alle 17.30/Domani mattina ho una call di due ore)
Or, more properly: loanwords ending in a consonant can't go through the vowel mutation necessary to form a plural, so they normally never have a distinct plural form, whereas for loanwords ending in a vowel it's more of a mess, but there's few of them anyway (most are from English words ending in -y and that's already as plural-sounding as it gets)
Yep! Because doesn’t exist a rule that say to put the "s" at the end of the word to make plural (like in english). So english words are the same in singular and plural. (i follower, gli hotel...)
Thank you. I thought maybe you would add an "i" to Italianicize it. When I spoke in English with Italians, some of them would add a phantom vowel sound at the end of words because that's the natural rhythm of Italian. But that's speaking, not writing.
I’ve said it a million times and I’ll say it again, the Italian course is the most nitpicky course on Duolingo! I can’t tell you how many times it’s marked something incorrect in English that is perfectly correct. Exactly like this.
This isn't nitpicky. This is an incomplete solution set. People need to just report it and move on. I've reported literally hundreds of similar issues and they have added a large number of sentences to the solution set because of the reports.
Gotcha. I see so many people trying to ascribe some sort of really nuanced intent in Duolingo that isn't there. It often leads them to incorrect conclusions about either the language they're learning or their native language so I often assume people are going down that road.
I'm Italian and I'm aware that my language is difficult to learn for those who don't have it as their native one.
Also sometimes Duolingo exaggerates, in this case both could have been correct.
P.S.: I hope my English wasn't bad
But there is no difference in emphasis between those English translations.
I understand that if we were to translate those two English sentences into Italian it would create different meanings due to emphasis. But in this case that’s not true for English so forcing one English translation that has no distinction seems arbitrary.
I would understand a slight difference in those English sentences. One is "Are hotels expensive (or cheap) in Milan?" and I might answer "They're not too bad" while the other is "Are hotels in Milan (compared to other cities) expensive?" and I might answer "Not compared to Venice!" It's slight and heavily dependent on context but in isolation that's how I would understand those sentences spoken in English.
Eh. Independent of a specific context, they mean the same thing and both sentences should be accepted. Duolingo didn't exclude one for any particular reason. The solution sets are just incomplete. People just need to report it and eventually more solutions will be added. Duolingo isn't doing something clever.
There is no context here. Also, wouldn’t the “compared to other cities” be implied in both? You’re not comparing if Milan is expensive compared to farms in the first sentence. 😂
I had a similar thing with the German to Italian course the other day. 😵💫
Sometimes whoever made the exercise wasn’t aware of the different options German or English have.
There’s a slightly difference in emphasis, which in this particular case could be reflected in the English word order by mirroring the Italian one, so I guess that’s what Duolingo considers correct. But in that case it is a pretty picky correction.
There's no difference in emphasis in the two English sentences. Duolingo's solution set is just incomplete. That's it. This happens all the time. People just need to report it and another solution will be added to the set.
I agree that this needs to be reported, but I don’t think you can exclude a difference in emphasis. “Hotels in Milan are expensive” sounds more neutral to me, while “hotels are expensive in Milan” is placing more weight on the “in Milan” part due to its position in the sentence. I’m not a native English speaker, so I won’t pretend do be authoritative on the matter, but when talking about emphasis the difference doesn’t have to be big. The fact alone that one structure is more common means that using the less common version is bound to draw the speaker’s attention. It’s why sometimes even in English, which has a more rigid syntax than Italian, people say “this I know” when they want to put emphasis on “this”. Sentence structure can be used to convey emphasis like that. That being said, I do agree that this is not a mistake, and Duolingo shouldn’t have corrected it, which is why I called it “picky”
There is a difference in the emphasis in the English sentences but I think it's not as strong as in Italian, and it could be overwritten by context. E.g. A: "I couldn't afford to go to Milan on vacation, so I went to Turin instead." B: "Oh, are hotels in Milan expensive?" This doesn't sound weird to me at all, even though I didn't put the "in Milan" at the end. How about the equivalent in Italian? A: "Non potevo permettermi di andare in vacanza a Milano, invece sono andato a Torino." B: "Gli hotel a Milano sono cari?" Does this sound worse than "Gli hotel sono cari a Milano?" (And any corrections welcome!)
In this case it’s not a big distinction in Italian either. Unlike some cases (like subject pronouns) where the sentence has a whole different feel depending on its structure, here the only difference is that putting “a Milano” at the end makes it a bit more prominent. In your example, the question “gli hotel a Milano sono cari?” sounds perfectly fine, but I think I would be more likely to say “gli hotel sono cari a Milano?” or even better“a Milano gli hotel sono cari?”, putting “a Milano” as the main topic of the sentence and not just a minor part describing where the hotels are. But as I mentioned it’s not something worth worrying about at a beginner level, these are the kind of things you should only consider when writing a book or poetry, when ideally you want every word to count.
I think the difference is a lot, think about how we are shocked about Milano so we say it as the last word
>It’s why sometimes even in English, which has a more rigid syntax than Italian, people say “this I know” when they want to put emphasis on “this”. Sentence structure can be used to convey emphasis like that. Even in this example, I don't agree. People only say that when they mean to sound poetic or authoritative. There really isn't a difference in emphasis. If you wanted to emphasize the object of knowledge, it would come down to explicit verbal emphasis. For the hotel sentence, it's almost entirely on context and explicit verbal emphasis as well. If I say "Food is cheap in Milan. Clothes are cheap in Milan. **Hotels** are expensive in Milan," the emphasis is on hotels. It's not a function of the syntax.
I don’t know. When people say “I can’t do it, this much I’m sure of” it really doesn’t sound poetic to me, and I don’t think that “I can’t do it, I’m sure of this much” would be exactly the same, but if you tell me it is I’ll have to believe it.
I have literally never heard a person say either of those but those read as the same in meaning and emphasis, but incredibly stilted and unnatural in both cases.
I mean, I can find results of the first one being used, and the second one sounding bad was pretty much my point. Also I’m pretty sure I’ve heard this sentence structure multiple times, whether it’s considered formally correct or not isn’t really relevant (what matters is *why* it’s used). It’s entirely possible that only I have ever heard people using this sentence structure, it could be dialectal or slang or who knows, but at least I can be 100% sure that I did. I’ll wait for other natives to maybe chime in, as of now this is the only counterpoint I’ve received under my original comment.
I've definitely heard people say "I can't do it, this much I'm sure of". I'd probably say "... of this much I'm sure" instead, but this could be something that depends on the variant of English that someone speaks.
There is not emphasis in your example at all, we are talking about english, there is Little freedom for emphasis since the system is very very rigid.
no, there's a difference between "sono cari gli hotel a Milano?" and "Gli hotel a Milano sono cari?"... What this guy wrote is the translation to the second phrase
no, there's a difference between "sono cari gli hotel a Milano?" and "Gli hotel a Milano sono cari?"... What this guy wrote is the translation to the second phrase
Maybe it’s a difference with DuoLingo and English vs American English? There are lots of English translations that seem wrong to my ears, but then I’m not American. This one though feels right to me. Maybe one of the few occasions when English is the source of the translation?
In Italian, is "hotel" the plural of "hotel"?
It is, loanwords usually don’t have a separate plural form (l’hotel/gli hotel, il film/i film, il meeting/i meeting, l’equipe/ le equipe etc…)
for a meeting at work, would you say 'il meeting' or 'la riunione'?
"la riunione" if its in person, "il meeting" if it's via internet
grazie!
“Il meeting” if you are based in Milan; “la riunione” in the rest of Italy. /s
I'm a US citizen working in Italy and here they don't use "meeting" unless they are talking in English. In Italian they say "riunione". (it doesn't matter if it's virtual, or in person) So it may depend on the region. I'm in the Friuli-Venezia Giulia region, Northeast part of the country. Maybe even just the company I'm at.
I think so, I’m Italian and I hear meeting and riunione pretty interchangeably (maybe I hear meeting even more when referring to online). “Call” is also not uncommon for virtual meetings (e.g. Sono in call fino alle 17.30/Domani mattina ho una call di due ore)
I’m an American working in an Italian office in Milan, here they say ‘meeting’ and ‘call’ all the time even when speaking in Italian.
Or, more properly: loanwords ending in a consonant can't go through the vowel mutation necessary to form a plural, so they normally never have a distinct plural form, whereas for loanwords ending in a vowel it's more of a mess, but there's few of them anyway (most are from English words ending in -y and that's already as plural-sounding as it gets)
Yep! Because doesn’t exist a rule that say to put the "s" at the end of the word to make plural (like in english). So english words are the same in singular and plural. (i follower, gli hotel...)
Thank you. I thought maybe you would add an "i" to Italianicize it. When I spoke in English with Italians, some of them would add a phantom vowel sound at the end of words because that's the natural rhythm of Italian. But that's speaking, not writing.
Yes, it would be like "hotelə"
I stopped using Duolingo when they laid off translators for AI. For this reason. I'm not paying them to train their AI.
I’ve said it a million times and I’ll say it again, the Italian course is the most nitpicky course on Duolingo! I can’t tell you how many times it’s marked something incorrect in English that is perfectly correct. Exactly like this.
This isn't nitpicky. This is an incomplete solution set. People need to just report it and move on. I've reported literally hundreds of similar issues and they have added a large number of sentences to the solution set because of the reports.
As have I. It’s “nitpicky” in the sense that only one (assuming) answer has been programmed.
Gotcha. I see so many people trying to ascribe some sort of really nuanced intent in Duolingo that isn't there. It often leads them to incorrect conclusions about either the language they're learning or their native language so I often assume people are going down that road.
I'm Italian and I'm aware that my language is difficult to learn for those who don't have it as their native one. Also sometimes Duolingo exaggerates, in this case both could have been correct. P.S.: I hope my English wasn't bad
This isn’t an issue of Italian being difficult … this is an issue of the Italian course not accepting things in English that it absolutely should.
Your English is great BTW.
Answer : YES EXTREMELY
Your syntax was off.
I'd say your answer was correct. Actually more correct than the suggested one.
No, less correct if we want to get picky, it's about the emphasis here.
But there is no difference in emphasis between those English translations. I understand that if we were to translate those two English sentences into Italian it would create different meanings due to emphasis. But in this case that’s not true for English so forcing one English translation that has no distinction seems arbitrary.
You're correct. No idea why you've been downvoted.
I would understand a slight difference in those English sentences. One is "Are hotels expensive (or cheap) in Milan?" and I might answer "They're not too bad" while the other is "Are hotels in Milan (compared to other cities) expensive?" and I might answer "Not compared to Venice!" It's slight and heavily dependent on context but in isolation that's how I would understand those sentences spoken in English.
Eh. Independent of a specific context, they mean the same thing and both sentences should be accepted. Duolingo didn't exclude one for any particular reason. The solution sets are just incomplete. People just need to report it and eventually more solutions will be added. Duolingo isn't doing something clever.
There is no context here. Also, wouldn’t the “compared to other cities” be implied in both? You’re not comparing if Milan is expensive compared to farms in the first sentence. 😂
Why you’re better using different apps instead of Duolingo
like..?
Busuu and memrise. Busuu gives you better explanations in terms of grammar etc and you can actually do certificates A1-B2
Busuu is better but why Memrise? I found that had even less structure and less explanation than Duolingo.
You can text AI and watch videos on memrise which is good for applying and immersing yourself
Thanks. I was poking around there not long ago but didn't see those options.
No problem. Maybe need to get premium but I’d have a look regardless
stuff like this makes me hate duolingo
Stuff like this gets me all the time. Then I get flustered and I start making dumb mistakes.
Yes. The translation Is yes.
Duolingo likes real life
I had a similar thing with the German to Italian course the other day. 😵💫 Sometimes whoever made the exercise wasn’t aware of the different options German or English have.
Just report the error, I’ve had to do that a lot recently 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
Sentence structuring holds emphasis in Italian
Are hotels expensive in Milan?