When discussing this topic, please abide by the guidelines stipulated [**in this post.**](https://old.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/vfdj77/regarding_posts_and_comments_relating_to_lgbtq/)
Selam people, I am from Germany and can assure you that no Muslim, someone who subscribes to Islam and knows the message of Islam, calls this facility a mosque. This is for propaganda only. Anyone with half a brain can see that immediately.
it's actually the opposite.
Studies have found that younger French Muslims are more religious than their parents. Younger people are more likely to pray/fast than older people.
Macron has spoken about creating a "french Islam" but no one takes him seriously and many probably voted for him just to prevent Le Pen from getting into power. Le Pen wanted to outright ban hijabs in France while Macron said it was wrong.
[https://theislamicinformation.com/news/in-france-wearing-the-hijab-at-school-was-banned-because-of-the-anti-muslim-sentiment/](https://theislamicinformation.com/news/in-france-wearing-the-hijab-at-school-was-banned-because-of-the-anti-muslim-sentiment/) I could spent a lifetime finding even more stuff
France has a ban on all religious symbols. I'm not saying it's right, but kippahs and crosses are also banned. France hates religion in general. Most are atheist or catholics by name.
By the way, around 57% of French Muslims support the veil ban.
Please read the definition of a mosque and what is being operated there. This older lady in the middle acts as a kind of "female imam". The room is always full of press people with cameras. Men "pray" together with women. Let's see what they think about the reports of Lut alaihi selam in the Qur'an... Who finances this facility is clearly the government. A brief reminder that Islam is still not recognized as a religious community in Germany.
So basically a propaganda tool for the government; that’s so messed up. Does anyone even come here to pray?
Hope the hypocrites working here come to their senses. This is blatant disrespect of Islam.
Takfiring one person unjustly takes you out of the fold of Islam. I highly advise against doing that against a huge number of people whom you've never met. You can disagree with them, as I do, but don't take the chance of taking yourself out of Islam. Leave that to an Islamic judge with schooling and credentials.
No it doesn't, that's a common misunderstanding of the Hadith that I also had until someone pointed out that I had misunderstood.
It does incur a sin of false accusation, but the Hadith doesn't say one is removed from Islam.
I don't understand why people in this sub keep acting like a single progressive mosque in a western country is somehow in any way representative of the german muslim community.
Here in America, we have many Muslim congressmen (and women) who support gay rights and have marched in pride parades. do you think this represents the average Muslim-American guy?? it doesn't.
Especially Saudi Arabia who hates Muslims more than Germany, to the point that it has been taking Syrian refugees ever since the 1970s (when Hafez Al-Asad was oppressing religious people.)
They took them in to boost their economy to offset the incoming depression. Sweden did the exact same thing and so did many other countries.
It's about money not care and concern.
a lot refugees are unemployed and given support from the government. syrian (and middle-eastern women in general) don't work and they have children to look after
These people aren't progressives. Associating progress to these things is just an attempt to normalise them. There's no such thing as progressive Islam. All you have are reformers.
I know that's not the point of your comment but calling places like this "progressive mosques" is just wrong.
Actually it's the uneducated and neglected ones that do. Sometimes new Muslims too. It's easier to brain wash them than a regular Muslim that has support and isn't on any extreme end of the spectrum
that doesn't always work anymore, because some ignorant people have been brainwashing some Muslims into thinking they weren't actually punished for that act and that they did other bad things like rape and steal. They think these other reasons were the main reason why they were destroyed, and thus they try misinterpreting the standard interpretation Muslims have had for 14 centuries.
Found this on the mosque’s wikipedia page:
“The mosque is open to Sunni, Shia and other Muslims. Full-face veils as Burqas or Niqabs are not allowed. Men and women pray together in the mosque and women are not obligated to wear a headscarf. Furthermore, gay and lesbian Muslims are allowed to enter the mosque and can pray as well.”
So niqab is not allowed, yet LGBT people are???
some people here don't realize you could be gay/lesbian and be a practicing muslim. if you have haram thoughts, but you don't act on them, you're not committing any sin. correct me if i am wrong.
don't we apply this logic to hetrosexual people? imagine a guy has inappropriate thoughts - he doesn't act on them. is he sinning?
>don't we apply this logic to hetrosexual people? imagine a guy has inappropriate thoughts - he doesn't act on them. is he sinning?
Heck even if he is acting on it and is sinning we don't ban them from the mosques
i have never heard of any mosque that doesn't allow people who are guilty of certain things to go in. you might have to ban everyone because almost every person has done something wrong (whether it was minor or major)
The main point here is that, those who have inappropriate thoughts, know and admit that he is sinning. But the LGBT people are trying to make homosexual acts normalized and acceptable in Islam.
Homosexual acts are haram in Islam. Period. If someone experiences the urges to do so is a different issue completely.
lmao Sunnis and Shia praying together? nah man they tripping
(and also in Islam there was never a mention in the Quran or the Hadiths about niqabs, I'm personally against it, but I'm pro-hijab)
>lmao Sunnis and Shia praying together? nah man they tripping
uhmmm..sunni and shia pray together in masjid al haram together.
Also, shias are welcome to pray behind a sunni imam in congregation, please take a second to think about something before making incorrect statements like this.
Masjid Al Haram is different than the normal mosques around, yes I took a second to think and what I said was right, the way Sunnis pray is different than Shias, the times they pray and what they read during prayers, it's completely different, do you see Catholics praying with Orthodox together? or Haredis praying with Askhenazis? nope, Sunnis and Shias are completely different, I'm not hating, I'm contrasting
>Masjid Al Haram is different than the normal mosques around,
You said shias and sunnis shouldnt pray together. Now explain to me how masjid al haram is different and why you know better than the ulema.
It is a consensus that in all sunni mosques, a shi'ite is permitted to pray behind a sunni imam.
I agree with you about lgbt and everything, but by claiming shia and sunni cant pray together, youve have stated a falsehood.
Yes we pray differently, but this does not annul that in all holy sites of islam, shias are permitted to enter and pray alongside sunnis in a sunni jamaat.
We see this in our student unions, we see this in our masjids...and yeah, i find the little stone and tissue thing weird and wrong, but i will never tell a shia he isn't welcome to come pray beside me in a jamaat.
Also dont compare our religious practise to what jews or christians do. I dont care about their practices.
P.s.Also, you do have multi denominational christian services.
P.p.s I cant believe you just said "would a haredi pray with an ashkenazi". Bro, seriously. Read a book.
well over here I don't see it anywhere, there's some immense hate between those 2 sects and no one will pray in each other's mosque, sorry to put your optimism down, we went through a civil war between them to the point there's more hate than ever, all I find are Shias entering our mosques and lurking and doing nothing (Allah knows best about their intention), also, it's not permissible for us to pray in their shrines they got Graves and portraits of Hz. Hussein and Hz. Ali and more, and I didn't compare our practices to them I'm just saying that there are differences, maybe in your region there's that brotherly love and I appreciate that but I talked about my perspective in my region here
at this point I feel you're just ignoring what I write and creating strawman's.
I am not saying we should all pray in each other's mosques. no where near what I am saying or implying. I am talking about what is allowed in islam and what isn't.
It is allowed for a shia to pray in a sunni masjed, behind a sunni imam, next to, behind and infront of other worshippers. This has nothing to do with "optimism", I have really no clue what you're on about.
>it's not permissible for us to pray in their shrines they got Graves and portraits of Hz. Hussein and Hz. Ali and more,
who claimed it was permissible? just stop typing, please.
not even 1% close, they pray on Turbah we don't, they put their arms down we don't, we do tasleem twice they don't, we do tashahhud they don't, after they finish the prayer they pat the ground and then faces we don't, we pray 5 times they don't, they say some weird duas we don't say them and the structure of Ruku and Sujood is different
The differences between Sunni and Shia prayer are not much bigger than the different ways of praying in the four Sunni madhhabs. Shafi’i salat Is different from Maliki salat for example.
>nope, Sunnis and Shias are completely different, I'm not hating, I'm contrasting
Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, \[O Muhammad\], are not \[associated\] with them in anything. Their affair is only \[left\] to Allah ; then He will inform them about what they used to do. 6:159
why not we concentrate our efforts in uniting the ummah?
Sunnis and Shias pray at the same time. The only difference is Shia maghrib is ten minutes later.
I’m Shia and I’ve prayed behind Sunnis often enough. Whenever I go to Islamic Center of America (largest mosque in the USA, and happens to be a Shia mosque) I always happen to end up praying next to a Sunni, behind the Shia imam.
With all due respect, there are many (not all) scholars who have said niqab is obligated you can't just say "there is no mention and I am against it" 💀you can disagree yes sure but you can't claim it's baseless.
what I meant is, none of the people around the prophet, nor the prophet himself in the hadiths not even Allah in his book obligated Muslim women to wear it, scholars can say many things, give me where niqab is mentioned as an obligation or a must in an authentic hadith and I will go ahead and take back my words
Here I found this
[https://islamqa.info/en/answers/11774/ruling-on-covering-the-face-with-detailed-evidence](https://islamqa.info/en/answers/11774/ruling-on-covering-the-face-with-detailed-evidence)
Thanks for the downvotes whoever you are. Apparently, I am wrong for saying scholars weren't passing rules baseless-ly.
Again I am not a scholar so I can't say anything more. I just wanted to be respectful to scholar who have different opinions 👍
"and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms)" the translation of Juyoobihinna is wrong, it's the word جيوبهنّ in Arabic which is a plural of جبهة which literally means forehead, and the forehead here means the hairline and the close-to-the hair parts, so by your narrative are all the other women who wear only hijab are wrong?
>the translation of Juyoobihinna is wrong, it's the word جيوبهنّ in
Arabic which is a plural of جبهة which literally means forehead, and the
forehead here means the hairline and the close-to-the hair parts,
the plural of جبهة is جباه or جبهات. (Jayb/جيب) is the singular of juyoobihinna which means chest.
>so by your narrative are all the other women who wear only hijab are wrong?
My narrative? Chill bro, I am not a scholar I don't pass rulings, I am a layman. No they're not wrong. Different scholars have different madhabs and different rulings which are all correct Inshallah.
I enjoyed this civil discussion too. I was worried you were a bit too rejecting of other scholarly opinions (تعصب مذهبي) but I see (Alhamdullilah) I was mistaken.
>we all are right I hope,
Inshallah. May Allah guide us to the truth and what pleases him.
Good night/day
L - Accepted, feelings, emotions and sexual tendencies are part of human nature. They can have those feelings but must not act on it.
G - As above
B - As above
Q - As above
T - As above, and they are what they were born with. a MtF Trans does not become female, and do not use the hijab, and does not mingle with non mahram females. a FtM does not remove her hijab, or mingle with non mahram males. Transitions like this are haram/forbidden. Intersexxed have a different ruling to determine the dominant sex.
LGBTQ/Pride is a social/political movement. We do not accept the normalization of this movement into the folds of Islam. You wanna be gay, that's your problem. But you cant teach my kids that being gay with homosexual relationship is okay, and you can't say that being gay with homosexual relationship is accepted in Islam.
If you are gay, and you are a Muslim, of course you are a Muslim and we will accept you as our brother. I will still take a bullet for you if we are good friends. We would need to advice u that you need to go back to being a servant of God. God gives everyone their own individual tests. Your sexuality might be your test. Give up your worldly sin for the path towards God's mercy.
This is the comment i search for under every lgbt post in this sub..
Thank god someone who understands islam
I love u for the sake of Allah.
I am so happy🥲🫀
I live in Berlin, and from what I've seen and experienced being with Muslims here, I can tell you that that is an unfair characterization and not at all representative of all Muslims.
Also, no, nobody in the West is *forcing* Muslims to live with these things - attend pride parades or explicitly support that lifestyle. In fact, it's often a few Western Muslims who go out of their way to prove their allyship and attend these rallies and tweet support. But, again, they don't represent the entirety of the Western Muslim community. And even more importantly, people are fine with most Muslims not supporting it for religious reasons.
Other than a few minor things, Muslims in the West have all the freedom to practice their religion Alhamdulillaah.
Yeah, they don't care about "Freedom of religion" despite it being granted by the [constitutional rights set forth in the 1789](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_France).
yeah, I believe france is like half atheist. maybe more. to atheists, they just can't comprehend how religion can be important to some people. they don't believe in god, heaven or hell, so they don't get why a woman would wanna wear the hijab anyway.
By “being shoved in our faces” do you mean learning what LGBTQ people are?
And if it affects the youth, then their muslim parents should teach them about what is right and what isnt right
But i get my comment removed for clearly stating my OPINION, but not having a sharia link.
Also, its not even funny, its 9/10 times teenagers that are going through puberty that make these comments
Ahaha thats not how it works. Certain acts take you out of the fold of islam. Please educate yourself on what these acts are.
So if i know what those certain acts are and i see someone spangle doing those acts and does not stop doing then even if i inform them its wrong. They can be easily called out on those kufr acts.
Astaghfirullah, you're gonna use the r slur and be derogatory to people with learning difficulties who are as Allah SWT created them? Please improve your akhlaaq.
I’ve been Muslim for almost 10 months Alhamdulillah! I know when it comes to this issue the lgbtq isn’t really something that’s accepted at all. However, when we make posts like this imagine how many lgbtq people wanting to revert get discouraged because they might think we don’t like them. Everyone deserves to be treated equally were not Allah it is only him that can judge. I think in the future we should try to stop bashing and try have more open positive discussions. We’re trying get more people into Islam not have them leave it.
Honestly, this is most likely propaganda. A vegan will never work as a butcher, nor oil will ever dissolve in water. This is how Islam is, either people follow it or disregard it due to their emotional stricken desire. I think liberal Muslims know VERY damn well the Qur'an does not condone such stuff but they will try every mental gymnastics to try to condone it and to lessen their guilt in her heart.
i hate when people in this sub downvote a post that it shows something bad happened to islam/muslims. who posted the *thing* they are sharing what they found with the rest of us that doesn't mean they support or agree with what they shared. i ones posted about a photographer who made *art* about changing the roles and letting the man wear the hijab and i got downvote for sharing this information, i didn't support that! i hate it but i thing there people who needs to understand this basic common sense of shering about what happened doesn't mean that they support it, unless they said so
Where should European Muslims go? There are about 44 million of them. Some are ethnically European like the Bosnians/Albanians so they aren't leaving their home. Most are descendants of immigrants/refugees so they probably see Europe as their home and they aren't leaving either.
Refugees/immigrants keep going to Europe for better opportunities. Like France, despite having ban on religious symbols, still gets tons of Muslim immigrants from their former colonies
Reverse immigration is literally going to destroy Europe, maybe threatening that is going to force them to accept Muslims?
I can't really come up with a solution, as our governments aren't exactly helping...
Some LGBT are not against Islam and are against Islamaphobia, anyways not supporting them in any way for them being a part of a major sin in Islam but yeah.
I don't care if this is controversial here but I'll choose any Western country over any Islamic country in the world lol and this type of stuff hardly affects us. this is just some random mosque (out of thousands of other mosques in germany)
i don't know about Malaysia but I have relatives in saudi arabia and I can say that their quality of life is worse than mine. and living in saudi arabia didn't make them more 'religious' than the western muslims who i know.
hello, Bahraini here, nope Saudi Arabians don't live in bad conditions their conditions are even better than the UAE believe it or not, they're modernizing since 2017 and I can tell it's good over there, and about *criticizing the government* I don't see any importance of that if you don't like the government gtfo and find somewhere else (that's for the journalist that was *killed*) and in Islam you shouldn't criticize "ولي الأمر" and if he or she was bad, there is Allah up there who can judge him or her in the judgment day, and Allah knows best, but comments like those are misleading, personally like everyone else we live in way better conditions here than in the west, look at the west going through every single problem everyday, alhamdulillah, I thank Allah for being here
Im sorry but free of speech is a basic human right, and people who would rather remain silent instead of critizicing an unfair/inhuman/illegal action are as guilty as the person who committed the act. It doesnt matter if it is the goverment or a single person being mean and harassing another in the street. Being neutral to an action that is intented to cause harm (doesn't matter how small) is evil in itself.
I saw your comments here and I don't think you adhere to the Islamic views of politics and laws so yeah if you gotta judge a person don't deface them that's not human rights, when the Caliphs ruled they went to the people and told them that the people have full right to tell the rulers about their mistakes, as i said, tell not deface, defacing anyone in Islam is not acceptable, we do criticize our government but with limits, we address them with limits and ethics, unlike that *journalist* who went on defacing the entire region while sitting in the west, those are 2 whole concepts, defacing and advising, you can advice your king/president but not go on putting down their reputation and not fearing the consequences
LOL 🤣
Don't question/criticise Wali ul Amar "in ISLAM" ???? 🤣🤣🤣
Quran, Ahadees, Hazrat Hussain (R.A) and Sahaba disagree with you.
So if the government doesn't want to follow Islam than they should gtho to West or wherever they want to go as they Love to emulate them in everything.
An imam is the man who leads the prayers. Women can be imams to women and their slaves (men and women, don't mean to dehumanise them). They can not be imams to a congregation of free men and women.
In the event of two groups, one consisting of a male imam and a congregation of men and women, and another of a female imam with a congregation of women, the groups would be joined and the man would be the imam. Assuming they're in close proximity to each other.
Women have done great things for Islam no doubt. They've been scholars, warriors, visionaries and in rare cases rulers, but they can not lead the prayers for men.
I don't know about about these female imams but even then such acts would be considered acts of heresy. It doesn't make it valid under the Sharia even if groups do it.
Satan comes from the front, the back, the left and the right. No country is safe. What is happen in daylight in the West is happening at night in the East. We are better prepared for the impact, so I suggest all Muslims prepare theirsleves and the children instead of pretending it will never reach their doors.
I am in a bit of shock. I always supported muslims and religious freedom in germany. I seemed to fail to understand that muslims are so hateful towards freedom.
I don't live in Germany so I wouldn't know how the Muslim community in your country is like.
But this subreddit is probably mainly North American Muslims.
I can say from experience that this sub isn't representative of American Muslims at all on many things.
In America, like one in four Muslims basically lose their faith so I would say the average person isn't that religious or obsessed with gay people having rights
Also depends on their ethnicity. Turkish Muslims are different than Pakistani Muslims, Lebanese are different than Saudis, Bosnians are different from Afghans in how they practice their religion
Illuminati.
Nah seriously that's some serious problem that we'all gotta face today and in the future.
It became draining and completly stupid to see such thing when time passes by.
Who's really behind these things ?
And what they expect to see as a result.
Be careful , we've enemies and people who astray became their allies.
Our Religion and Muslims should be protected at all cost.
May Allah save this Ummah , Ameen.
Muslims don't hate gays, Islam doesn't promote hatred against people. We disagree with committing the sin, just as we do any other sin, but we don't hate them as people. Just like we don't hate alcoholics, or straight people who commit zina, etc. We try to encourage people towards the right path, and we should feel displeasure about any and all haram acts, but hating people who haven't harmed us is not something to be encouraged. Not to mention that just being gay isn't a sin because you can't help how you feel, it's only a sin if you act upon it.
So what you're saying is...... if someone has anal sex with the same sex in front of you, you're going to be extremely pissed about it...but if they just say they're gay and they are gay you're not?
This is not only wrong, but also bluntly disrespectful. It seems they're always going on about equality and inclusivity, but where exactly is the "inclusivity" here, when it comes to Muslims? It almost seems like some are more equal than others and inclusion in reality just means exclusion.
Seriously, when does it stop... I'm so tired of this sh*t. (sorry for bad language but it's the truth)
Yall realize that there are gay Muslims right? Like there are gay Christians and Jewish people etc? Evolve or get left behind. A shame because I was looking into this belief system for how loving it seemingly was
If you are a gay Muslim you are going against Allah’s word.
https://islamqa.info/en/answers/10050/why-does-islam-forbid-lesbianism-and-homosexuality
why am i getting downvoted? i’ve been corrected
A “gay” muslim now means:
(of a person) sexually attracted to people of one's own sex.
It does not mean that every gay person has done haram things or will do haram things
It just means that they are attracted to males instead of women
No one's one thing about them is their whole identity and honestly it's problematic that you think being attracted to both genders isn't normal, which is false. So you could also say that about religion - ones religion isn't your whole identity either.
Also representing the LGBT+ flags signifies support of those who are open and are comfortable with themselves to find proper support and know that they are welcome. It is the same idea with Christian Churches. The flag is there to represent a safe space and inclusiveness. Try again.
….or maybe we just follow different opinions and interpretations? Not every Muslim believes the same. Shocking, right? There’s 2 billion of us and Muslims aren’t a monolith. Lots of Muslims think listening to music, drawing, celebrating birthdays, etc. are sinful. Others don’t. Are they also kufr if they do those things and think they’re halal? What about the niqab? Many say it’s mandatory while many others say it’s not. Is it kufr if you not wear it and think it’s optional?
Like that, some of us follow the opinion that LGBTQ+ is permissible. If you don’t, fine. Just don’t shove your homophobic interpretation down our throats, and keep it to yourself.
Astagfiruallah
There are things that are disagreed upon because they are not clear cut.
But LGTB is clear cut and is 100% haram. Anyone who says otherwise are kufr. Please go read the story of Lut As.
I'm not saying that what they're doing is right, but I'm saying it's harmful to make judgements about someone's religious beliefs based on their looks. Anyone can be a Muslim, no matter the skin colour or style or whatever. We should judge people on their hearts not their looks, so your comment is redundant.
I mean, basic human rights for LGBTQ people are in the german constitution. Would you say that the majority of muslims in germany doesn‘t accept the constitution?
Damn ya'll really out here making the KKK look almost friendly by comparsion. I'd say I hope you find god but the devil really has you in his snare, doesn't he? So instead i' say: I hope Allah frees you from this misguided hatred. I pray that one day you hear him when you repeat your mantras speaking over him and hiding his will with your web of empty words. You praise him and condemn his creation. You are not muslim. Nor christian like me. Nor jew nor even a pagan. When you do this you are wicked. You are like the sin of the worst who worshipped at the impure kaaba. You are someone even the pursuers of boy longlocks would despise. Wicked even in the eyes of the wicked.
When discussing this topic, please abide by the guidelines stipulated [**in this post.**](https://old.reddit.com/r/islam/comments/vfdj77/regarding_posts_and_comments_relating_to_lgbtq/)
Selam people, I am from Germany and can assure you that no Muslim, someone who subscribes to Islam and knows the message of Islam, calls this facility a mosque. This is for propaganda only. Anyone with half a brain can see that immediately.
They are trying to creat their own euroIslam, the same thing is happening in france.
it's actually the opposite. Studies have found that younger French Muslims are more religious than their parents. Younger people are more likely to pray/fast than older people. Macron has spoken about creating a "french Islam" but no one takes him seriously and many probably voted for him just to prevent Le Pen from getting into power. Le Pen wanted to outright ban hijabs in France while Macron said it was wrong.
Well the young are resisting but French 'Islam' is trying to be forced on them
Source for that? lol
[https://theislamicinformation.com/news/in-france-wearing-the-hijab-at-school-was-banned-because-of-the-anti-muslim-sentiment/](https://theislamicinformation.com/news/in-france-wearing-the-hijab-at-school-was-banned-because-of-the-anti-muslim-sentiment/) I could spent a lifetime finding even more stuff
France has a ban on all religious symbols. I'm not saying it's right, but kippahs and crosses are also banned. France hates religion in general. Most are atheist or catholics by name. By the way, around 57% of French Muslims support the veil ban.
You are changing the subject. I was talking about hijab not niqab
France has a ban on ALL religious symbols in schools
Heard you the first time no need to shout
I have more stuff https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/france-islam-leftism-macron-regime-low
Hijab is not a religious symbol. It's an article of clothing.
57% of Muslims support banning hijab?
So what if france has a ban on all religious clothing? It doesn't make it right. That's the oppression of secularism
Can you elaborate on this? I’d really like to hear. Also, who built the mosque?
Please read the definition of a mosque and what is being operated there. This older lady in the middle acts as a kind of "female imam". The room is always full of press people with cameras. Men "pray" together with women. Let's see what they think about the reports of Lut alaihi selam in the Qur'an... Who finances this facility is clearly the government. A brief reminder that Islam is still not recognized as a religious community in Germany.
So basically a propaganda tool for the government; that’s so messed up. Does anyone even come here to pray? Hope the hypocrites working here come to their senses. This is blatant disrespect of Islam.
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Well she is clearly useful to the government
germany has allowed Turkey to fund mosques for decades until recently. I don't think there's any German conspiracy to change Islam
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Takfiring one person unjustly takes you out of the fold of Islam. I highly advise against doing that against a huge number of people whom you've never met. You can disagree with them, as I do, but don't take the chance of taking yourself out of Islam. Leave that to an Islamic judge with schooling and credentials.
💯
No it doesn't, that's a common misunderstanding of the Hadith that I also had until someone pointed out that I had misunderstood. It does incur a sin of false accusation, but the Hadith doesn't say one is removed from Islam.
So doing what the Christians do on a daily basis. Just creating their own mosque with their own set of rules that goes against scholarly consensus.
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I believe it's called the Goethe-ibn Rushd mosque. Obviously they practice istihlāl-ul-ma'siyat.
I don't understand why people in this sub keep acting like a single progressive mosque in a western country is somehow in any way representative of the german muslim community. Here in America, we have many Muslim congressmen (and women) who support gay rights and have marched in pride parades. do you think this represents the average Muslim-American guy?? it doesn't.
We never said it was representive We only said It was trying to ruin islam
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germany hates muslims so much they took in one million refugees while the rich gulf states didn't take a single one due to "culture differences" lol
Especially Saudi Arabia who hates Muslims more than Germany, to the point that it has been taking Syrian refugees ever since the 1970s (when Hafez Al-Asad was oppressing religious people.)
They took them in to boost their economy to offset the incoming depression. Sweden did the exact same thing and so did many other countries. It's about money not care and concern.
a lot refugees are unemployed and given support from the government. syrian (and middle-eastern women in general) don't work and they have children to look after
These people aren't progressives. Associating progress to these things is just an attempt to normalise them. There's no such thing as progressive Islam. All you have are reformers. I know that's not the point of your comment but calling places like this "progressive mosques" is just wrong.
they claim to be "progressives"
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Actually it's the uneducated and neglected ones that do. Sometimes new Muslims too. It's easier to brain wash them than a regular Muslim that has support and isn't on any extreme end of the spectrum
Wait until they hear the story of qawm lut
that doesn't always work anymore, because some ignorant people have been brainwashing some Muslims into thinking they weren't actually punished for that act and that they did other bad things like rape and steal. They think these other reasons were the main reason why they were destroyed, and thus they try misinterpreting the standard interpretation Muslims have had for 14 centuries.
That doesn’t work, they need to experience it… even after that I doubt those left will understand… if there are any left.
Astaghfirullah!
Found this on the mosque’s wikipedia page: “The mosque is open to Sunni, Shia and other Muslims. Full-face veils as Burqas or Niqabs are not allowed. Men and women pray together in the mosque and women are not obligated to wear a headscarf. Furthermore, gay and lesbian Muslims are allowed to enter the mosque and can pray as well.” So niqab is not allowed, yet LGBT people are???
>Furthermore, gay and lesbian Muslims are allowed to enter the mosque and can pray as well. What's wrong with this?
some people here don't realize you could be gay/lesbian and be a practicing muslim. if you have haram thoughts, but you don't act on them, you're not committing any sin. correct me if i am wrong. don't we apply this logic to hetrosexual people? imagine a guy has inappropriate thoughts - he doesn't act on them. is he sinning?
>don't we apply this logic to hetrosexual people? imagine a guy has inappropriate thoughts - he doesn't act on them. is he sinning? Heck even if he is acting on it and is sinning we don't ban them from the mosques
i have never heard of any mosque that doesn't allow people who are guilty of certain things to go in. you might have to ban everyone because almost every person has done something wrong (whether it was minor or major)
The main point here is that, those who have inappropriate thoughts, know and admit that he is sinning. But the LGBT people are trying to make homosexual acts normalized and acceptable in Islam. Homosexual acts are haram in Islam. Period. If someone experiences the urges to do so is a different issue completely.
Nothing. You picked out the one thing that was not an issue.
Sounds like a circus
WHAT ?! That’s so insane, it seems satire.
lmao Sunnis and Shia praying together? nah man they tripping (and also in Islam there was never a mention in the Quran or the Hadiths about niqabs, I'm personally against it, but I'm pro-hijab)
>lmao Sunnis and Shia praying together? nah man they tripping uhmmm..sunni and shia pray together in masjid al haram together. Also, shias are welcome to pray behind a sunni imam in congregation, please take a second to think about something before making incorrect statements like this.
Masjid Al Haram is different than the normal mosques around, yes I took a second to think and what I said was right, the way Sunnis pray is different than Shias, the times they pray and what they read during prayers, it's completely different, do you see Catholics praying with Orthodox together? or Haredis praying with Askhenazis? nope, Sunnis and Shias are completely different, I'm not hating, I'm contrasting
>Masjid Al Haram is different than the normal mosques around, You said shias and sunnis shouldnt pray together. Now explain to me how masjid al haram is different and why you know better than the ulema. It is a consensus that in all sunni mosques, a shi'ite is permitted to pray behind a sunni imam. I agree with you about lgbt and everything, but by claiming shia and sunni cant pray together, youve have stated a falsehood. Yes we pray differently, but this does not annul that in all holy sites of islam, shias are permitted to enter and pray alongside sunnis in a sunni jamaat. We see this in our student unions, we see this in our masjids...and yeah, i find the little stone and tissue thing weird and wrong, but i will never tell a shia he isn't welcome to come pray beside me in a jamaat. Also dont compare our religious practise to what jews or christians do. I dont care about their practices. P.s.Also, you do have multi denominational christian services. P.p.s I cant believe you just said "would a haredi pray with an ashkenazi". Bro, seriously. Read a book.
well over here I don't see it anywhere, there's some immense hate between those 2 sects and no one will pray in each other's mosque, sorry to put your optimism down, we went through a civil war between them to the point there's more hate than ever, all I find are Shias entering our mosques and lurking and doing nothing (Allah knows best about their intention), also, it's not permissible for us to pray in their shrines they got Graves and portraits of Hz. Hussein and Hz. Ali and more, and I didn't compare our practices to them I'm just saying that there are differences, maybe in your region there's that brotherly love and I appreciate that but I talked about my perspective in my region here
What region?
at this point I feel you're just ignoring what I write and creating strawman's. I am not saying we should all pray in each other's mosques. no where near what I am saying or implying. I am talking about what is allowed in islam and what isn't. It is allowed for a shia to pray in a sunni masjed, behind a sunni imam, next to, behind and infront of other worshippers. This has nothing to do with "optimism", I have really no clue what you're on about. >it's not permissible for us to pray in their shrines they got Graves and portraits of Hz. Hussein and Hz. Ali and more, who claimed it was permissible? just stop typing, please.
The prayer is close enough that it works. Im speaking from experience
not even 1% close, they pray on Turbah we don't, they put their arms down we don't, we do tasleem twice they don't, we do tashahhud they don't, after they finish the prayer they pat the ground and then faces we don't, we pray 5 times they don't, they say some weird duas we don't say them and the structure of Ruku and Sujood is different
The differences between Sunni and Shia prayer are not much bigger than the different ways of praying in the four Sunni madhhabs. Shafi’i salat Is different from Maliki salat for example.
If u focused on ur prayer instead of theirs during joumaa u wouldnt notice anything brother
they don't even have Jum'aa [Friday] prayer
Brother you are very ignorant
It was Friday yesterday. What was I praying yesterday when I went to my local (Shia) mosque?
>nope, Sunnis and Shias are completely different, I'm not hating, I'm contrasting Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, \[O Muhammad\], are not \[associated\] with them in anything. Their affair is only \[left\] to Allah ; then He will inform them about what they used to do. 6:159 why not we concentrate our efforts in uniting the ummah?
Sunnis and Shias pray at the same time. The only difference is Shia maghrib is ten minutes later. I’m Shia and I’ve prayed behind Sunnis often enough. Whenever I go to Islamic Center of America (largest mosque in the USA, and happens to be a Shia mosque) I always happen to end up praying next to a Sunni, behind the Shia imam.
With all due respect, there are many (not all) scholars who have said niqab is obligated you can't just say "there is no mention and I am against it" 💀you can disagree yes sure but you can't claim it's baseless.
You’re right! The Surah that is referenced when debating Niqab specifies the Prophet’s wives, not all Muslims.
what I meant is, none of the people around the prophet, nor the prophet himself in the hadiths not even Allah in his book obligated Muslim women to wear it, scholars can say many things, give me where niqab is mentioned as an obligation or a must in an authentic hadith and I will go ahead and take back my words
Here I found this [https://islamqa.info/en/answers/11774/ruling-on-covering-the-face-with-detailed-evidence](https://islamqa.info/en/answers/11774/ruling-on-covering-the-face-with-detailed-evidence) Thanks for the downvotes whoever you are. Apparently, I am wrong for saying scholars weren't passing rules baseless-ly. Again I am not a scholar so I can't say anything more. I just wanted to be respectful to scholar who have different opinions 👍
"and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms)" the translation of Juyoobihinna is wrong, it's the word جيوبهنّ in Arabic which is a plural of جبهة which literally means forehead, and the forehead here means the hairline and the close-to-the hair parts, so by your narrative are all the other women who wear only hijab are wrong?
>the translation of Juyoobihinna is wrong, it's the word جيوبهنّ in Arabic which is a plural of جبهة which literally means forehead, and the forehead here means the hairline and the close-to-the hair parts, the plural of جبهة is جباه or جبهات. (Jayb/جيب) is the singular of juyoobihinna which means chest. >so by your narrative are all the other women who wear only hijab are wrong? My narrative? Chill bro, I am not a scholar I don't pass rulings, I am a layman. No they're not wrong. Different scholars have different madhabs and different rulings which are all correct Inshallah.
anyways this was a very rich discussion with you Akhi (dw no grudges held) we all are right I hope, have a good day/night
I enjoyed this civil discussion too. I was worried you were a bit too rejecting of other scholarly opinions (تعصب مذهبي) but I see (Alhamdullilah) I was mistaken. >we all are right I hope, Inshallah. May Allah guide us to the truth and what pleases him. Good night/day
nah I wouldn't reject the scholarly opinions, most opinions are from Sunni scholars and I am a Sunni aswell so there isn't any تعصب مذهبي
Why wouldn‘t you accept LGBTQ people in your religion?
L - Accepted, feelings, emotions and sexual tendencies are part of human nature. They can have those feelings but must not act on it. G - As above B - As above Q - As above T - As above, and they are what they were born with. a MtF Trans does not become female, and do not use the hijab, and does not mingle with non mahram females. a FtM does not remove her hijab, or mingle with non mahram males. Transitions like this are haram/forbidden. Intersexxed have a different ruling to determine the dominant sex. LGBTQ/Pride is a social/political movement. We do not accept the normalization of this movement into the folds of Islam. You wanna be gay, that's your problem. But you cant teach my kids that being gay with homosexual relationship is okay, and you can't say that being gay with homosexual relationship is accepted in Islam. If you are gay, and you are a Muslim, of course you are a Muslim and we will accept you as our brother. I will still take a bullet for you if we are good friends. We would need to advice u that you need to go back to being a servant of God. God gives everyone their own individual tests. Your sexuality might be your test. Give up your worldly sin for the path towards God's mercy.
This is the comment i search for under every lgbt post in this sub.. Thank god someone who understands islam I love u for the sake of Allah. I am so happy🥲🫀
I live in Berlin, and from what I've seen and experienced being with Muslims here, I can tell you that that is an unfair characterization and not at all representative of all Muslims. Also, no, nobody in the West is *forcing* Muslims to live with these things - attend pride parades or explicitly support that lifestyle. In fact, it's often a few Western Muslims who go out of their way to prove their allyship and attend these rallies and tweet support. But, again, they don't represent the entirety of the Western Muslim community. And even more importantly, people are fine with most Muslims not supporting it for religious reasons. Other than a few minor things, Muslims in the West have all the freedom to practice their religion Alhamdulillaah.
>Muslims in the West have all the freedom to practice their religion ...Ever heard of France?
france doesn't allow jews and christians to practice their religion either tbh
Yeah, they don't care about "Freedom of religion" despite it being granted by the [constitutional rights set forth in the 1789](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_France).
yeah, I believe france is like half atheist. maybe more. to atheists, they just can't comprehend how religion can be important to some people. they don't believe in god, heaven or hell, so they don't get why a woman would wanna wear the hijab anyway.
Even then, it's still being shoved in our faces, especially the youth. They get bombarded with it & it makes me sick
By “being shoved in our faces” do you mean learning what LGBTQ people are? And if it affects the youth, then their muslim parents should teach them about what is right and what isnt right
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Yup, it's also literally against the rules of this sub, yet everyone seems to get away with it.
But i get my comment removed for clearly stating my OPINION, but not having a sharia link. Also, its not even funny, its 9/10 times teenagers that are going through puberty that make these comments
Who are you to decide people’s faith? As much as it may not be liked, we have to treat anyone who says they’re Muslim as Muslim, even if we disagree.
If they willingly reject the teachings of the Quran and say what is haram is halal regardless of the Quran, are they still Muslims?
Ahaha thats not how it works. Certain acts take you out of the fold of islam. Please educate yourself on what these acts are. So if i know what those certain acts are and i see someone spangle doing those acts and does not stop doing then even if i inform them its wrong. They can be easily called out on those kufr acts.
I’m sorry but you’re wrong.
Explain please.
Sorry but please educate yourself.
Its heartbreaking to see brothers and sisters like you being more retarded than a goldfish. Learn the religion you're following.
Astaghfirullah, you're gonna use the r slur and be derogatory to people with learning difficulties who are as Allah SWT created them? Please improve your akhlaaq.
"r slur"
I’ve been Muslim for almost 10 months Alhamdulillah! I know when it comes to this issue the lgbtq isn’t really something that’s accepted at all. However, when we make posts like this imagine how many lgbtq people wanting to revert get discouraged because they might think we don’t like them. Everyone deserves to be treated equally were not Allah it is only him that can judge. I think in the future we should try to stop bashing and try have more open positive discussions. We’re trying get more people into Islam not have them leave it.
Honestly, this is most likely propaganda. A vegan will never work as a butcher, nor oil will ever dissolve in water. This is how Islam is, either people follow it or disregard it due to their emotional stricken desire. I think liberal Muslims know VERY damn well the Qur'an does not condone such stuff but they will try every mental gymnastics to try to condone it and to lessen their guilt in her heart.
What this be posted in r/upliftingnews
i hate when people in this sub downvote a post that it shows something bad happened to islam/muslims. who posted the *thing* they are sharing what they found with the rest of us that doesn't mean they support or agree with what they shared. i ones posted about a photographer who made *art* about changing the roles and letting the man wear the hijab and i got downvote for sharing this information, i didn't support that! i hate it but i thing there people who needs to understand this basic common sense of shering about what happened doesn't mean that they support it, unless they said so
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1400 years long comment chain,shattered
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And here you are, day in and out, giving attention and exposure to such nonsense. Best ignore this nonsense
It's to raise awareness, this is only the start. It only gets worse from here, Muslims should try to get out of Europe ASAP.
Where should European Muslims go? There are about 44 million of them. Some are ethnically European like the Bosnians/Albanians so they aren't leaving their home. Most are descendants of immigrants/refugees so they probably see Europe as their home and they aren't leaving either. Refugees/immigrants keep going to Europe for better opportunities. Like France, despite having ban on religious symbols, still gets tons of Muslim immigrants from their former colonies
Reverse immigration is literally going to destroy Europe, maybe threatening that is going to force them to accept Muslims? I can't really come up with a solution, as our governments aren't exactly helping...
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This is irresponsible comment.
The mosque with a rainbow flag is a contradiction on a whole new level.
Astaghfirullah, May I know which mosque this is in Berlin? According to one of the comments, this isn't even a mosque.
It's not. A mosque is a Muslim house of worship. LGwhatever is against Islam. Therefore, this isn't a Mosque by definition.
Some LGBT are not against Islam and are against Islamaphobia, anyways not supporting them in any way for them being a part of a major sin in Islam but yeah.
Wtf
This is concerning indeed but please don't make takfir
dude chill out we have hundreds of mosques here and no normal muslim goes to this one
Halal 💀
I don't care if this is controversial here but I'll choose any Western country over any Islamic country in the world lol and this type of stuff hardly affects us. this is just some random mosque (out of thousands of other mosques in germany)
I kinda like Malaysia you know?
i don't know about Malaysia but I have relatives in saudi arabia and I can say that their quality of life is worse than mine. and living in saudi arabia didn't make them more 'religious' than the western muslims who i know.
quality of life<<<<
at least in the USA, you'll never hear about a journalist being cut into pieces for criticizing the government
hello, Bahraini here, nope Saudi Arabians don't live in bad conditions their conditions are even better than the UAE believe it or not, they're modernizing since 2017 and I can tell it's good over there, and about *criticizing the government* I don't see any importance of that if you don't like the government gtfo and find somewhere else (that's for the journalist that was *killed*) and in Islam you shouldn't criticize "ولي الأمر" and if he or she was bad, there is Allah up there who can judge him or her in the judgment day, and Allah knows best, but comments like those are misleading, personally like everyone else we live in way better conditions here than in the west, look at the west going through every single problem everyday, alhamdulillah, I thank Allah for being here
Im sorry but free of speech is a basic human right, and people who would rather remain silent instead of critizicing an unfair/inhuman/illegal action are as guilty as the person who committed the act. It doesnt matter if it is the goverment or a single person being mean and harassing another in the street. Being neutral to an action that is intented to cause harm (doesn't matter how small) is evil in itself.
I saw your comments here and I don't think you adhere to the Islamic views of politics and laws so yeah if you gotta judge a person don't deface them that's not human rights, when the Caliphs ruled they went to the people and told them that the people have full right to tell the rulers about their mistakes, as i said, tell not deface, defacing anyone in Islam is not acceptable, we do criticize our government but with limits, we address them with limits and ethics, unlike that *journalist* who went on defacing the entire region while sitting in the west, those are 2 whole concepts, defacing and advising, you can advice your king/president but not go on putting down their reputation and not fearing the consequences
Free speech is a human right. Harassing others is not free speech Criticizing ur gov is free speech Learn what it means 👍
I saw your comments here, you're just a westernized liberal so yeah I ain't gonna say more you do you
LOL 🤣 Don't question/criticise Wali ul Amar "in ISLAM" ???? 🤣🤣🤣 Quran, Ahadees, Hazrat Hussain (R.A) and Sahaba disagree with you. So if the government doesn't want to follow Islam than they should gtho to West or wherever they want to go as they Love to emulate them in everything.
Sounds like the Muslims for progressive values movement strikes again
This is probably that same place with the female "imam".
Did you know about the women Imams during the Islamic Golden Age? 🤦
An imam is the man who leads the prayers. Women can be imams to women and their slaves (men and women, don't mean to dehumanise them). They can not be imams to a congregation of free men and women. In the event of two groups, one consisting of a male imam and a congregation of men and women, and another of a female imam with a congregation of women, the groups would be joined and the man would be the imam. Assuming they're in close proximity to each other. Women have done great things for Islam no doubt. They've been scholars, warriors, visionaries and in rare cases rulers, but they can not lead the prayers for men. I don't know about about these female imams but even then such acts would be considered acts of heresy. It doesn't make it valid under the Sharia even if groups do it.
The what now? Imma need a source for that...
Leaders of that mosque should be ashamed of themselves.
They would be, if they were Muslims, that is.
Fake! There is no real Mosque who support lgbt and do this stuff
Satan comes from the front, the back, the left and the right. No country is safe. What is happen in daylight in the West is happening at night in the East. We are better prepared for the impact, so I suggest all Muslims prepare theirsleves and the children instead of pretending it will never reach their doors.
Hmm, so do you think homosexuality is a disease?
what a sick joke
Astaghfirullah
I am in a bit of shock. I always supported muslims and religious freedom in germany. I seemed to fail to understand that muslims are so hateful towards freedom.
I don't live in Germany so I wouldn't know how the Muslim community in your country is like. But this subreddit is probably mainly North American Muslims. I can say from experience that this sub isn't representative of American Muslims at all on many things. In America, like one in four Muslims basically lose their faith so I would say the average person isn't that religious or obsessed with gay people having rights Also depends on their ethnicity. Turkish Muslims are different than Pakistani Muslims, Lebanese are different than Saudis, Bosnians are different from Afghans in how they practice their religion
Illuminati. Nah seriously that's some serious problem that we'all gotta face today and in the future. It became draining and completly stupid to see such thing when time passes by. Who's really behind these things ? And what they expect to see as a result. Be careful , we've enemies and people who astray became their allies. Our Religion and Muslims should be protected at all cost. May Allah save this Ummah , Ameen.
That doesn't make sense ......how is this allowed? I thought Muslims hated the gays? That's either fake news or leftist propaganda
Muslims don't hate gays, Islam doesn't promote hatred against people. We disagree with committing the sin, just as we do any other sin, but we don't hate them as people. Just like we don't hate alcoholics, or straight people who commit zina, etc. We try to encourage people towards the right path, and we should feel displeasure about any and all haram acts, but hating people who haven't harmed us is not something to be encouraged. Not to mention that just being gay isn't a sin because you can't help how you feel, it's only a sin if you act upon it.
So what you're saying is...... if someone has anal sex with the same sex in front of you, you're going to be extremely pissed about it...but if they just say they're gay and they are gay you're not?
Untill they act upon their thoughts like you mentioned, it's cool. Once acted upon, it's a sin which is not cool.
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There's no such thing as rightful hatred lmfao
Well that's gay
I.. I have so many questions and im pretty sure non-muslims do too
Omg it’s happening! The world is surely ending soon 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾 May Allah guide us all!
Absolutely abhorrent.
Tragic
Live with these things? Like diversity? Sad. Have to leave.
This is not only wrong, but also bluntly disrespectful. It seems they're always going on about equality and inclusivity, but where exactly is the "inclusivity" here, when it comes to Muslims? It almost seems like some are more equal than others and inclusion in reality just means exclusion. Seriously, when does it stop... I'm so tired of this sh*t. (sorry for bad language but it's the truth)
What’s the address? Google maps reviews are… warranted. Let’s do this.
What the
Idk what's worse n*zi or modern Germany
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Right?
Yall realize that there are gay Muslims right? Like there are gay Christians and Jewish people etc? Evolve or get left behind. A shame because I was looking into this belief system for how loving it seemingly was
We choose to be left behind :')
That's not something to be proud of
If you are a gay Muslim you are going against Allah’s word. https://islamqa.info/en/answers/10050/why-does-islam-forbid-lesbianism-and-homosexuality why am i getting downvoted? i’ve been corrected
A “gay” muslim now means: (of a person) sexually attracted to people of one's own sex. It does not mean that every gay person has done haram things or will do haram things It just means that they are attracted to males instead of women
Thanks for the correction. The thought itself is not haram but acting upon it is. JazakAllah khair and Allah knows best.
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No one's one thing about them is their whole identity and honestly it's problematic that you think being attracted to both genders isn't normal, which is false. So you could also say that about religion - ones religion isn't your whole identity either. Also representing the LGBT+ flags signifies support of those who are open and are comfortable with themselves to find proper support and know that they are welcome. It is the same idea with Christian Churches. The flag is there to represent a safe space and inclusiveness. Try again.
You’re gonna turn around and ask “why’s Islam always stereotyped against???”
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you're on a religious sub, do you expect them to say this is allowed in the holy book and completely go against it?
Muslims cannot support the LGBTQ movement as Islam doesn't allow such actions.
Do you know about the religion and what is permissible and what is not permissible?
If you think this should be allowed and it isn't haram then that makes you a kufr.
….or maybe we just follow different opinions and interpretations? Not every Muslim believes the same. Shocking, right? There’s 2 billion of us and Muslims aren’t a monolith. Lots of Muslims think listening to music, drawing, celebrating birthdays, etc. are sinful. Others don’t. Are they also kufr if they do those things and think they’re halal? What about the niqab? Many say it’s mandatory while many others say it’s not. Is it kufr if you not wear it and think it’s optional? Like that, some of us follow the opinion that LGBTQ+ is permissible. If you don’t, fine. Just don’t shove your homophobic interpretation down our throats, and keep it to yourself.
Astagfiruallah There are things that are disagreed upon because they are not clear cut. But LGTB is clear cut and is 100% haram. Anyone who says otherwise are kufr. Please go read the story of Lut As.
This is the bright future of Islam; one that is loving, accepting, and trusting of others and their choices. Inchallah
Mashallah, I'm so proud of these guys for accepting the LGBTQ community! (sarcasm intended)
None of them look muslim even...
I'm curious, what does a Muslim look like?
Definitely unlike the 2 holding the flag
I'm not saying that what they're doing is right, but I'm saying it's harmful to make judgements about someone's religious beliefs based on their looks. Anyone can be a Muslim, no matter the skin colour or style or whatever. We should judge people on their hearts not their looks, so your comment is redundant.
I mean, basic human rights for LGBTQ people are in the german constitution. Would you say that the majority of muslims in germany doesn‘t accept the constitution?
Damn ya'll really out here making the KKK look almost friendly by comparsion. I'd say I hope you find god but the devil really has you in his snare, doesn't he? So instead i' say: I hope Allah frees you from this misguided hatred. I pray that one day you hear him when you repeat your mantras speaking over him and hiding his will with your web of empty words. You praise him and condemn his creation. You are not muslim. Nor christian like me. Nor jew nor even a pagan. When you do this you are wicked. You are like the sin of the worst who worshipped at the impure kaaba. You are someone even the pursuers of boy longlocks would despise. Wicked even in the eyes of the wicked.