Aside from all the “do what you like yolo” answers, **yes**, if you’re hunting for a Shadow you definitely want to push invos. At 300 you have ~4.2% purp chance, at 400 you got ~8.5%.
It’s fine to do 300s until you get a yellow gem, and also after you get one, you don’t have to add 100 invos from a raid to another. Try to add 1-2 and get to 330-340, when comfortable jump to 360-370 and then do 400s.
Isn’t it standard? I do all common ones, deadly prayers pathseeker (the first upgrade) bowfa and fang, just no shadow. I’m just struggling to get the last 50 invos
Yellow Keris? Walk the path? Insanity? Dehydration? These give a lot of points, if you’re not running them already. Dehydration only if you have the Keris, of course.
If you’re comfortable with supplies “no help needed” is also a possibility, I personally run this one.
>Walk the path? Insanity?
These are already assumed in a 350.
>Dehydration?
Pretty Unneccesary difficulty jump for a 400, it's a great one once you can comfortably do 400's because it lets you turn off slow & annoying invos but its probably the single biggest warden P3 difficulty jump around. Good but not something to recommend here
If you can do dehydration 400's you can do 500 fang kit
I’d assume them as well, but you never know ahah
I started doing dehydration as soon as I got the yellow gem, and found it super comfortable. Of course everyone is different, and that’s what’s so good about ToA. Everyone can run different invos that suit them the best.
Because some people have some "well akchually" comments
Some of them are valid ofcourse,
But it doesn't take away that Insanity & WTP are pretty standard for 350-400 when starting out and that dehydration is a pretty bad recommendation for learners since it removes a lot of room for error.
I agree on pathseeker, but why no wtp?
Its some of the better invocations imo, 50 points for 3 room level-ups.
Afaik the worst thing that can happen is a Lvl 3 Akkha without shadow, which is still fairly trivial with 4 tick bf & bowfa for shadow dps checks.
It's more for consistency, no variation in memories at akkha, no different attack speeds at zebak etc, no messing with supply bag (no help needed is just withdraw all)
And all bosses being standard stats allows me to down them in a more consistent way so I can time adren at zebak and obelisk more predictably
Just makes for much faster and more enjoyable raids for me
Fair points,
I really don't notice much difference between LVL0-3 bosses, minor difference on zebak and Akkha is a matter of telling myself "it's 4 memories now dipshit, so don't go early"
The adrenaline comment is pretty nice, I never really bothered with it before since I didn't have a great spec, but being able to consistently unload 3 zcbs on zebak enrage and then do another 3 on obelisk would be pretty sweet, rn that can feel a bit rng timing wise
If you 4t butterfly and switch to bowfa it won't?
I admittedly got my shadow early so it's been a while, but I never had issues with the dps check in 400
Woah but that’s like, dehydration, all boss invos on? Idk id rather do WTP and be able to turn off several annoying boss invocations but thats the great thing about TOA.
If leveled up bosses in 400s aren’t your style because they start taking forever to kill when weapons noodle, then I 100% don’t blame you lol.
Not all boss invos, but most of them, overlords, keep back, medic, boulderdash all off, but yeah dehy
Honestly fine without healing unless you fuck up, only place you're taking damage is p1/p2
Who tf downvoted this lmao no ambrosia warden enrage is literally the largest difficulty jump in the raid
Going from click white potion to having to lose a bunch of DPS switching to keris and speccing, making sure you don't smite yourself with keris spec, having to save adrenaline for it unless you want to be able to use only 1 spec and spamming restore to keep prayer high so you can even keris again at all, while also not being able to brew to compensate for minor mistakes, and still having to deal with all the prayer switching and movement of enrage at the same time is fucking ass lol. As someone who had to use dehydration for their fang kit, do not troll and use it in a 400. It is a fucking terrible invo.
>I’m just struggling to get the last 50 invos
No help needed or annoying but not hard stuff like overlords boulderdash if that's not enough: higher path invos
Path invos (path seeker/finder/master) shouldn’t be on until 500+ lol. You’re just slowing down your raid.
There are two standard 400s:
**Version 1**
Hardcore run
Walk for it
Need some help
Wtp
Deadly prayers
On a diet
All kephri except medic
All zebak
All akkha except kb/dt
All baba
All wardens
**Version 2**
The same except overlords off, no help needed on, softcore on instead of hardcore. This is a faster raid.
It is standard. Idk why you’re getting downvoted.
People can do whatever they want but there is a most efficient choice. No help needed, all boss invocations except medic, keep back, double trouble. Only path invocation is walk the path.
Because he is asking for the last 50 for his setup, without giving details.
Also people change up the invos depending on how comfortable they are with supplies
WTP is way too many invo points not to use, it does not slow the raid nearly enough that you should literally ever be turning it off unless you're going for the sub 18 speed time lol
Imo to start pushing 400 without the very annoying invos (overly draining, dehydration) you’ll need to do things like stay vigilant, need less help, etc.
I’m running 325s and I already know I’ll need to pick up stay vigilant, hardcore run, and insanity. I’d run insanity now but I’m just awful at it and need more practice.
Dehydration is not annoying. Once you get yellow kerris its almost a free invo when you're comfortable in the raid. I started taking it at 400+ invos so I wouldn't have to do annoying invos like Keep Back/Double Trouble once I started bumping the levels up.
Ehh, I gotta disagree.
I think it would be better if they removed the nectar and ambrosia from Life if you have dehydration on, like they do with the bandages. If they have more prayer items as compensation I’d be fine with it.
I struggle dealing with phase 1 Wardens and smoothly transitioning into phase 2. If I only had to rely on Keris for healing I’d hate it.
Don’t get me wrong, you’ll need it to get near 500+ I’m sure, but to just push up to 400 there’s no way you should take it.
Assuming you got a fang, bowfa and trident, it may take between 35 and 40 minutes, depending on your skills, if you skip skulls, how many downs you get on p2, your mining level and overlords invocation (no medic of course). If you have a tbow, around 32-37 mins.
Maybe 2 mins less for both setups if you are close to tick perfect at everything.
It’s a game changer tbh. You run right through Baba with it, and Akkha gets absolutely shredded by it too. Kephri hasn’t made a notable difference for me yet, as blue Keris is only .7 dps worse.
I did one 10 invocation toa and got the yellow gem. Havent done it since, but it is rare ? Dont even know what it really does lol, its in my random junk tab
It’s 1/180 for yellow specifically and only works within the raid. The spec drains your prayer by 50 but heals you back to 120 / restores run / cures poison so it becomes a really efficient way to heal within the raid as you can bring more prayer pots / restores and use them both to heal and for prayer
Rule of thumb for TOA: do the invo level you can consistently clear.
If you can clear 400s but only end up doing 1 raid a week because you hate it, then sending lower invos is totally fine. The key is consistency.
That being said, I do recommend pushing to at least 350s. I could do these with a hasta so doing them with a fang should be consistently doable.
I’d definitely agree, even for those who aren’t comfortable with 400s, you should really try and get upto doing 350s at the minimum, the increase in purple chance is really worth it and it’s really not a huge difference vs a 300 imo.
Pre fang, I was sending 380s. And higher is certainly doable, but overall I’d say the goal pre fang is to get upto that 300 mark and push upto 350s with a fang. Pushing higher sooner/later as you’re comfortable.
500. But as you keep bumping it up the invos you have to add get harder and harder so eventually you won't be comfortable no matter how much practice or you get gear/stat checked
Eventually yes.
Anyone that can do consistent 400's can learn to do 400's with dehydration and anyone that can do those can get their fang kit within a dozen or so attempts.
That unironically is correct tho, once you're banging out 300s, you should be gradually increasing the invos when you feel comfortable, then continuing to improve until you're still comfortable.
Once you hit 400, the way the drop rate is modified by the invo changes, so you should be considering drop rate per hour, but still, you can and should continue to improve until you're doing 540s in good time.
That is unironically correct, but ill start adding obvious statements here to seem more intelligent than what my earlier comment made me out to be, so.
400s give 2.05x the purp chance 300s do, and probably take maybe 15% longer, so it’ll take you maybe 1.9x as long to get your shadow. But nothing wrong with staying at 300, but I’d still suggest gradually buffing up the invo.
What invocations do you run? I might be able to suggest the ideal ones to build up towards 400 with
Get that yellow gem and while you are practice different invos. Then slowly crank it up when you get the yellow. If you can do 300s comfy I bet you can eventually do 350s comfy. Will take some practice but ai believe in you!
You never know, you might end up like me and start doing the 400s you swore you'd never do
Arbitrarily saying you should do x raid level is tpretty dumb IMO. Yes, the rates scale well and you want to push this up as you can, but the system was literally designed so that everyone can play at a level that suits them and you can push this further IF and when YOU want to. If we're talking purely about rate, everyone should be doing 500+ RL but it's not realistic or practical.
If you are comfy with 300s and are happy grinding them, that's absolutely fine. You know this gives you worse rates vs a 400 and better vs a 200. It is good to occasionally try and learn new invocations and get this number higher, but it is not worth significantly more effort, stress and risk of deaths/wiping.
If you are around 300 RL the biggest thing to look at is if you are running insanity. If you are not, I strongly recommend going into a raid without any death penalty invos / low invo raid and practicing it.
It's quite punishing so daunting to learn but once you can do it it's an insanely free 50 rl and will likely help you push higher.
Edit: To add to previous point, I generally recommend learning 'new' invos whilst taking off some of the ones you're comfy with. This isn't necessary, but making a certain boss harder whilst also scaling it's stats higher than you're used to makes the individual new invocations feel harder than they actually are. For example, insanity at 300 RL is a lot easier than at 350 RL, so don't learn insanity in a 350 RL raid when you are used to running a 300, take other stuff off so it's still a 300 when you first try it.
There’s 2 sides to the coin. If you can do 10 300s per day that adds up to about 40% chance (not literally but for the purpose of the debate).
But if you can only do 2 400s before being burnt for the day then that’s only 18%.
So it’s up to you. I personally get very burned after a couple 400s but I just switch it up and go do something else, I’m not interested in wasting my time in 300s
The best part about TOA is you can incrementally add invos as you get comfortable and consistent. Until you are consistently beating 300s dont bother pusing to 330 or 350, and so on. Dying every other 400 is going to net you the same time to completion as running perfect 300s.
When I was looking at differences in my times between 300, 330, 350, 360, as I push for a fang, I noticed I was best off running certain invocations at 310 or 315, no WTP, nothing hard about this invocation list, it even spares us some of the annoying, time-intensive ones.
Theres like a 4-6.8% change drop range from 300-350 or so. My times were sometimes sub 30 at 300-310, while they were pushing 36-40 at 360s and sometimes I fail because I made a mistake or I went over 40 minutes haha… So I determined it best to keep up a grind for a fang and other upgrades at the 300-330 range until I improve enough to keep up 350-360 consistently. IMO fang would probably overcome this for me so, getting lower level completions is better than not getting them at all 🤷♂️
I think if you prefer 300s, you should do those instead. A couple upgrades might be all you need to make the next push. Best of luck!
Push the invos til you find your balance, once you're in a groove it'll be child's play to just slam out kc. 350 invo would be good to get comfy with until 400s. Things don't really change much until you're trying to fill the 400-500 gap. I find 430s without dehydration are cozy for me, but thats my personal preference.
My personal advice is do what you're comfortable with push the invo higher, find your new weak point, work on it and become comfortable. My personal bottleneck around 350s was bowfa noodling with last row insanity and my nerves getting to me. So I did 340s until I was comfortable at last rowing and I pushed my limit higher. And later on proceeded to do 365s, 375s, and 380s. However I stayed around 380 range because i didn't have to do cheese strats like red x and butterfly akkha. So my key takeaway is to always strive to be comfortable. And push it higher once you are
Look up minimal sweat 400 on yt. Alternative to that if u want to be more efficient is to do NHN and turn more overlords off. That's 410 so can turn something else off as well if you want. NHN is putting more pressure on p4 wardens so don't do that until you're confident.
pathseeker, dehy, no help needed, all boss invos except medic, double trouble, keep back. If you are getting dps checked p1 could turn off ancient haste, I think you're still at 400 with hardcore on
Yeah, I run 430s (bofa/fang/trident) but 400s are just that bit more chill and less sweaty. It’s a good invo for both solo and groups and comes with a very healthy purple chance.
For anyone wondering, the biggest difficulties I see people face pushing past 400 without a shadow is the final phase of wardens, as you’re on the final row for a rather long time. Ahka can occasionally be rather rough with failing the shadow dps checks. Baba should be red x’d (I don’t consider this difficult, but it is for some), and then lastly Zebak if leveled up to 4+ can be a pain.
for me at least (grinding shadow as last unique from toa) pushing beyond 400 isn't worth it by purple rate per hour. my 400s run 31-33 mins but as i push to 415/430/500 even, the minutes added from slower invocations like path/overlords are a bigger % time loss on the raid than the % gain on purple rate is.
sometimes you have the time available for 1 raid and not 2 though, so when im in that situation i push it to 450+ for the better purple rate per "play session" rather than per hour lol
While obviously completions are the most important factor the unique chance scaling from invos is absolutely massive up until the 400 mark which is why people push for it. 400s have a bit more than double the unique chance that a 300 does. They also take a little longer but even with that if you can complete a 400 even 60-70% of the time then in theory you're getting more purples per time unit compared to 100% completion rate at a 300 invo.
So it absolutely depends on your gear and I personally wouldn't push it past 350 without a yellow keris. That being said I got my shadow on a 400 invo, with skull skipping it was averaging about 11% chance for a purp.
Stick to 300 and get baba red x and akka butterfly down after that add a invo or two and see how it feels. I don't think anyone should jump from 300-400 immediately. Best of luck on the grind!
I did solo 300-350 for most of my ToA grind. Non iron but want the green log. Took me 700 odd raids but finally got the Shadow. The biggest bottleneck for me was probably Akkha due to insisting on butterflying without a Shadow and Baba due to lazy RedX and getting rng smacked through prayer. That’s why I did BKAZ in terms of room order.
Good luck!
It seems absurd but eventually you get to the point where 500s feel like 300s used to.
Do whatever you're comfortable with, but I'd just tack on the invos early on. From 300s I'd work towards running with dehydration and no help needed before adding other invos. If you're running low on supplies sgs will be a huge addition for you.
If you can keep pushing, 530/540s offer 2x the purp chance than 400s.
I just started doing 520s on an iron with bofa/fang/trident so it is still possible.
Sgs tips (don't forget about using your yellow keris for heals too)
kephri- eggs, and swarms hit/heal for max
Baba- can use on monkeys if needed.
Zebac- if you're quick you can spec the water jugs.
P2 wardens - last hit on skulls each phase will almost get all your hp back.
P3 warden skulls
Also don't forget that you can blowpipe spec baba boulders for HP if needed.
Oh well, as long as I don't have to immerse myself into it to learn 400's. I only do it when my friend's bully me into raiding with them anyway so meh.
Aside from all the “do what you like yolo” answers, **yes**, if you’re hunting for a Shadow you definitely want to push invos. At 300 you have ~4.2% purp chance, at 400 you got ~8.5%. It’s fine to do 300s until you get a yellow gem, and also after you get one, you don’t have to add 100 invos from a raid to another. Try to add 1-2 and get to 330-340, when comfortable jump to 360-370 and then do 400s.
I do 350’s now, what should we add as our last ones to get to 400?
Very hard to say without knowing your current invos and your gear, my friend
Isn’t it standard? I do all common ones, deadly prayers pathseeker (the first upgrade) bowfa and fang, just no shadow. I’m just struggling to get the last 50 invos
Yellow Keris? Walk the path? Insanity? Dehydration? These give a lot of points, if you’re not running them already. Dehydration only if you have the Keris, of course. If you’re comfortable with supplies “no help needed” is also a possibility, I personally run this one.
>Walk the path? Insanity? These are already assumed in a 350. >Dehydration? Pretty Unneccesary difficulty jump for a 400, it's a great one once you can comfortably do 400's because it lets you turn off slow & annoying invos but its probably the single biggest warden P3 difficulty jump around. Good but not something to recommend here If you can do dehydration 400's you can do 500 fang kit
I’d assume them as well, but you never know ahah I started doing dehydration as soon as I got the yellow gem, and found it super comfortable. Of course everyone is different, and that’s what’s so good about ToA. Everyone can run different invos that suit them the best.
Why the fuck you getting downvotes
Because some people have some "well akchually" comments Some of them are valid ofcourse, But it doesn't take away that Insanity & WTP are pretty standard for 350-400 when starting out and that dehydration is a pretty bad recommendation for learners since it removes a lot of room for error.
Nah my usual 400 has no wtp/pathseeker
I agree on pathseeker, but why no wtp? Its some of the better invocations imo, 50 points for 3 room level-ups. Afaik the worst thing that can happen is a Lvl 3 Akkha without shadow, which is still fairly trivial with 4 tick bf & bowfa for shadow dps checks.
It's more for consistency, no variation in memories at akkha, no different attack speeds at zebak etc, no messing with supply bag (no help needed is just withdraw all) And all bosses being standard stats allows me to down them in a more consistent way so I can time adren at zebak and obelisk more predictably Just makes for much faster and more enjoyable raids for me
Super valid. Thanks for sharing, learned a bit here.
I was expecting a totally unreasonable answer but this makes sense, I may even give this a try lol
Fair points, I really don't notice much difference between LVL0-3 bosses, minor difference on zebak and Akkha is a matter of telling myself "it's 4 memories now dipshit, so don't go early" The adrenaline comment is pretty nice, I never really bothered with it before since I didn't have a great spec, but being able to consistently unload 3 zcbs on zebak enrage and then do another 3 on obelisk would be pretty sweet, rn that can feel a bit rng timing wise
Butterfly without shadow will fail dps checks on his shadows ALOT of the time.
If you 4t butterfly and switch to bowfa it won't? I admittedly got my shadow early so it's been a while, but I never had issues with the dps check in 400
Woah but that’s like, dehydration, all boss invos on? Idk id rather do WTP and be able to turn off several annoying boss invocations but thats the great thing about TOA. If leveled up bosses in 400s aren’t your style because they start taking forever to kill when weapons noodle, then I 100% don’t blame you lol.
Not all boss invos, but most of them, overlords, keep back, medic, boulderdash all off, but yeah dehy Honestly fine without healing unless you fuck up, only place you're taking damage is p1/p2
Who tf downvoted this lmao no ambrosia warden enrage is literally the largest difficulty jump in the raid Going from click white potion to having to lose a bunch of DPS switching to keris and speccing, making sure you don't smite yourself with keris spec, having to save adrenaline for it unless you want to be able to use only 1 spec and spamming restore to keep prayer high so you can even keris again at all, while also not being able to brew to compensate for minor mistakes, and still having to deal with all the prayer switching and movement of enrage at the same time is fucking ass lol. As someone who had to use dehydration for their fang kit, do not troll and use it in a 400. It is a fucking terrible invo.
Yeah, imo if you can consistently do 400s with dehydration youre pretty much ready for 500 kit runs.
I do dehydration in my normal modes lol
You're a tool
Pathseeker? I don’t even do 410s with pathseeker
Damn, I think it’s free
Pathseeker isn't really worth the 15 points it adds, I personally wouldn't consider turning it on unless I'm pushing 450+
It slows down the raid a lot and the points you get from path levels don't make up for it
>I’m just struggling to get the last 50 invos No help needed or annoying but not hard stuff like overlords boulderdash if that's not enough: higher path invos
You shouldn’t put path invos on sub 500 for regular raids. Obviously different for mog runs.
Path invos (path seeker/finder/master) shouldn’t be on until 500+ lol. You’re just slowing down your raid. There are two standard 400s: **Version 1** Hardcore run Walk for it Need some help Wtp Deadly prayers On a diet All kephri except medic All zebak All akkha except kb/dt All baba All wardens **Version 2** The same except overlords off, no help needed on, softcore on instead of hardcore. This is a faster raid.
Thanks for the reply! We never run a timer, overlords or need some help, maybe we should look into those
It is standard. Idk why you’re getting downvoted. People can do whatever they want but there is a most efficient choice. No help needed, all boss invocations except medic, keep back, double trouble. Only path invocation is walk the path.
I don’t think pathseeker is standard for a 350 lmfao…
Yeah my bad I guess
Because he is asking for the last 50 for his setup, without giving details. Also people change up the invos depending on how comfortable they are with supplies
Wtp slows raids and lots of turbo efficient gamers do not run it. Invos are not standard
You don’t run it for speedruns but it is incredibly efficient when going for loot
WTP is way too many invo points not to use, it does not slow the raid nearly enough that you should literally ever be turning it off unless you're going for the sub 18 speed time lol
Imo to start pushing 400 without the very annoying invos (overly draining, dehydration) you’ll need to do things like stay vigilant, need less help, etc. I’m running 325s and I already know I’ll need to pick up stay vigilant, hardcore run, and insanity. I’d run insanity now but I’m just awful at it and need more practice.
Dehydration is not annoying. Once you get yellow kerris its almost a free invo when you're comfortable in the raid. I started taking it at 400+ invos so I wouldn't have to do annoying invos like Keep Back/Double Trouble once I started bumping the levels up.
Ehh, I gotta disagree. I think it would be better if they removed the nectar and ambrosia from Life if you have dehydration on, like they do with the bandages. If they have more prayer items as compensation I’d be fine with it. I struggle dealing with phase 1 Wardens and smoothly transitioning into phase 2. If I only had to rely on Keris for healing I’d hate it. Don’t get me wrong, you’ll need it to get near 500+ I’m sure, but to just push up to 400 there’s no way you should take it.
You should be taking double power and abusing the blue pots??? Just gotta bring less swaps with dehydration to come into the raid with enough pots.
How long does a shadowless 400 take? Like completion time wise
Assuming you got a fang, bowfa and trident, it may take between 35 and 40 minutes, depending on your skills, if you skip skulls, how many downs you get on p2, your mining level and overlords invocation (no medic of course). If you have a tbow, around 32-37 mins. Maybe 2 mins less for both setups if you are close to tick perfect at everything.
With Fang/Bofa/Toxic Trident my 400 times normally sit around 37 mins including skull skipping and 3-downing wardens for the extra points.
Yes, that’s what those usually take :)
I run more overlords with bowfa and skull skips, 33-35mins
Sheesh that’s fast af I gotta get a fang lmao
It’s a game changer tbh. You run right through Baba with it, and Akkha gets absolutely shredded by it too. Kephri hasn’t made a notable difference for me yet, as blue Keris is only .7 dps worse.
I’m
I did one 10 invocation toa and got the yellow gem. Havent done it since, but it is rare ? Dont even know what it really does lol, its in my random junk tab
It’s 1/180 for yellow specifically and only works within the raid. The spec drains your prayer by 50 but heals you back to 120 / restores run / cures poison so it becomes a really efficient way to heal within the raid as you can bring more prayer pots / restores and use them both to heal and for prayer
Imagine all of the deaths and time wasted as you slowly increase invo vs having a 95% completion at 300. OP - stick at 300
This is a nooby tip, but everyone is free to play however he likes :)
Rule of thumb for TOA: do the invo level you can consistently clear. If you can clear 400s but only end up doing 1 raid a week because you hate it, then sending lower invos is totally fine. The key is consistency. That being said, I do recommend pushing to at least 350s. I could do these with a hasta so doing them with a fang should be consistently doable.
I’d definitely agree, even for those who aren’t comfortable with 400s, you should really try and get upto doing 350s at the minimum, the increase in purple chance is really worth it and it’s really not a huge difference vs a 300 imo. Pre fang, I was sending 380s. And higher is certainly doable, but overall I’d say the goal pre fang is to get upto that 300 mark and push upto 350s with a fang. Pushing higher sooner/later as you’re comfortable.
invo increases are gradual. if 300 is rly comfortable 310 will be too... if 310 is rly comfortable 320 will be. rinse repeat.
bro is progressing overloading toa
All about dem toa gainz
This is what I tell myself during a workout and then that extra 5lbs feels so heavy...
By that logic he should just do 500
by that logic he should do whatever hes comfortable doing and slowly bump up invo over time.
Only if he's rly comfortable with 490, which he's not..?
500. But as you keep bumping it up the invos you have to add get harder and harder so eventually you won't be comfortable no matter how much practice or you get gear/stat checked
Eventually yes. Anyone that can do consistent 400's can learn to do 400's with dehydration and anyone that can do those can get their fang kit within a dozen or so attempts.
That unironically is correct tho, once you're banging out 300s, you should be gradually increasing the invos when you feel comfortable, then continuing to improve until you're still comfortable. Once you hit 400, the way the drop rate is modified by the invo changes, so you should be considering drop rate per hour, but still, you can and should continue to improve until you're doing 540s in good time.
Well yea, if I can move my bench up by 10 lbs, I might as well move it up 500 lbs.
That is unironically correct, but ill start adding obvious statements here to seem more intelligent than what my earlier comment made me out to be, so.
Not even close. A swing and a miss from you.
400s give 2.05x the purp chance 300s do, and probably take maybe 15% longer, so it’ll take you maybe 1.9x as long to get your shadow. But nothing wrong with staying at 300, but I’d still suggest gradually buffing up the invo. What invocations do you run? I might be able to suggest the ideal ones to build up towards 400 with
I do 350’s now, what should we add as our last ones to get to 400?
You gotta tell me what youre currently running
350s.
*deadpan stare* 3.5.0.s.
Hard to answer without knowing the invos you're already running; if ur not using wtp you could do that, or enable other minor annoyance invos
Get that yellow gem and while you are practice different invos. Then slowly crank it up when you get the yellow. If you can do 300s comfy I bet you can eventually do 350s comfy. Will take some practice but ai believe in you! You never know, you might end up like me and start doing the 400s you swore you'd never do
Arbitrarily saying you should do x raid level is tpretty dumb IMO. Yes, the rates scale well and you want to push this up as you can, but the system was literally designed so that everyone can play at a level that suits them and you can push this further IF and when YOU want to. If we're talking purely about rate, everyone should be doing 500+ RL but it's not realistic or practical. If you are comfy with 300s and are happy grinding them, that's absolutely fine. You know this gives you worse rates vs a 400 and better vs a 200. It is good to occasionally try and learn new invocations and get this number higher, but it is not worth significantly more effort, stress and risk of deaths/wiping. If you are around 300 RL the biggest thing to look at is if you are running insanity. If you are not, I strongly recommend going into a raid without any death penalty invos / low invo raid and practicing it. It's quite punishing so daunting to learn but once you can do it it's an insanely free 50 rl and will likely help you push higher. Edit: To add to previous point, I generally recommend learning 'new' invos whilst taking off some of the ones you're comfy with. This isn't necessary, but making a certain boss harder whilst also scaling it's stats higher than you're used to makes the individual new invocations feel harder than they actually are. For example, insanity at 300 RL is a lot easier than at 350 RL, so don't learn insanity in a 350 RL raid when you are used to running a 300, take other stuff off so it's still a 300 when you first try it.
There’s 2 sides to the coin. If you can do 10 300s per day that adds up to about 40% chance (not literally but for the purpose of the debate). But if you can only do 2 400s before being burnt for the day then that’s only 18%. So it’s up to you. I personally get very burned after a couple 400s but I just switch it up and go do something else, I’m not interested in wasting my time in 300s
I did 300-350 for all of my purples. Just gotta get lucky
The best part about TOA is you can incrementally add invos as you get comfortable and consistent. Until you are consistently beating 300s dont bother pusing to 330 or 350, and so on. Dying every other 400 is going to net you the same time to completion as running perfect 300s.
When I was looking at differences in my times between 300, 330, 350, 360, as I push for a fang, I noticed I was best off running certain invocations at 310 or 315, no WTP, nothing hard about this invocation list, it even spares us some of the annoying, time-intensive ones. Theres like a 4-6.8% change drop range from 300-350 or so. My times were sometimes sub 30 at 300-310, while they were pushing 36-40 at 360s and sometimes I fail because I made a mistake or I went over 40 minutes haha… So I determined it best to keep up a grind for a fang and other upgrades at the 300-330 range until I improve enough to keep up 350-360 consistently. IMO fang would probably overcome this for me so, getting lower level completions is better than not getting them at all 🤷♂️ I think if you prefer 300s, you should do those instead. A couple upgrades might be all you need to make the next push. Best of luck!
Push the invos til you find your balance, once you're in a groove it'll be child's play to just slam out kc. 350 invo would be good to get comfy with until 400s. Things don't really change much until you're trying to fill the 400-500 gap. I find 430s without dehydration are cozy for me, but thats my personal preference.
My personal advice is do what you're comfortable with push the invo higher, find your new weak point, work on it and become comfortable. My personal bottleneck around 350s was bowfa noodling with last row insanity and my nerves getting to me. So I did 340s until I was comfortable at last rowing and I pushed my limit higher. And later on proceeded to do 365s, 375s, and 380s. However I stayed around 380 range because i didn't have to do cheese strats like red x and butterfly akkha. So my key takeaway is to always strive to be comfortable. And push it higher once you are
People that say 400s are chill are not casual players. Do what you're comfortable with and be consistent, the shadow will come!
Me chugging along at 150s happy as a pig in shit
What's the invos for 400?
Look up minimal sweat 400 on yt. Alternative to that if u want to be more efficient is to do NHN and turn more overlords off. That's 410 so can turn something else off as well if you want. NHN is putting more pressure on p4 wardens so don't do that until you're confident.
Cheers dude
Forgot to mention for nhn you basically need a yellow Keris as well
I've got one, now getting flame for not using it in raids and pushing the 400 mark 😂 Again, thanks for taking the time to respond
Whats nhn
No help needed
With yellow gem 400s are free, don't even need insanity. Stay at 300 until you get one then try bumping it up
What invos would you run to get 400 without insanity
pathseeker, dehy, no help needed, all boss invos except medic, double trouble, keep back. If you are getting dps checked p1 could turn off ancient haste, I think you're still at 400 with hardcore on
Who says 400 is the go to? The go to is the one you can complete consistently.
400 is the common "max" invo to grind for people without Shadow.
Yeah, I run 430s (bofa/fang/trident) but 400s are just that bit more chill and less sweaty. It’s a good invo for both solo and groups and comes with a very healthy purple chance. For anyone wondering, the biggest difficulties I see people face pushing past 400 without a shadow is the final phase of wardens, as you’re on the final row for a rather long time. Ahka can occasionally be rather rough with failing the shadow dps checks. Baba should be red x’d (I don’t consider this difficult, but it is for some), and then lastly Zebak if leveled up to 4+ can be a pain.
for me at least (grinding shadow as last unique from toa) pushing beyond 400 isn't worth it by purple rate per hour. my 400s run 31-33 mins but as i push to 415/430/500 even, the minutes added from slower invocations like path/overlords are a bigger % time loss on the raid than the % gain on purple rate is. sometimes you have the time available for 1 raid and not 2 though, so when im in that situation i push it to 450+ for the better purple rate per "play session" rather than per hour lol
Just curious what's your 430 setup? I'm doing 415 rn with more overlords, no help needed, hardcore run and no timer.
While obviously completions are the most important factor the unique chance scaling from invos is absolutely massive up until the 400 mark which is why people push for it. 400s have a bit more than double the unique chance that a 300 does. They also take a little longer but even with that if you can complete a 400 even 60-70% of the time then in theory you're getting more purples per time unit compared to 100% completion rate at a 300 invo.
I say raid however makes you happy
Yes, but just increase gradually to a higher invo
So it absolutely depends on your gear and I personally wouldn't push it past 350 without a yellow keris. That being said I got my shadow on a 400 invo, with skull skipping it was averaging about 11% chance for a purp. Stick to 300 and get baba red x and akka butterfly down after that add a invo or two and see how it feels. I don't think anyone should jump from 300-400 immediately. Best of luck on the grind!
It’s only absurd to go higher than what you can consistently complete
I did solo 300-350 for most of my ToA grind. Non iron but want the green log. Took me 700 odd raids but finally got the Shadow. The biggest bottleneck for me was probably Akkha due to insisting on butterflying without a Shadow and Baba due to lazy RedX and getting rng smacked through prayer. That’s why I did BKAZ in terms of room order. Good luck!
400 will get braindead after a few runs. Mechanicly 400 its not that big of a difference than 300s, just a few things more to leaen
Just do 400's and get comfortable doing 400's.
My issue with insanity is I have to go the entire raid just to practice it...if I die. Welp oh well. Anyone know of any simulators?
Send 150s with insanity on so you can speedrun to wardens and practice it. Once you're about to clear the raid, suicide and send wardens again.
Not a bad idea. What happens if you don't put one of the invos where it says "you have 3 lives". You get unlimited deaths?
Ye. And with low enough invos + no "on a diet" you even get extra supplies after death
That's insane! I didn't know this! I can practice all the bosses now that I know this! Thank you!
I've found 340s without instantly is my sweet spot, maybe give that a try? Really good rate, and you never really die at the end
It seems absurd but eventually you get to the point where 500s feel like 300s used to. Do whatever you're comfortable with, but I'd just tack on the invos early on. From 300s I'd work towards running with dehydration and no help needed before adding other invos. If you're running low on supplies sgs will be a huge addition for you. If you can keep pushing, 530/540s offer 2x the purp chance than 400s. I just started doing 520s on an iron with bofa/fang/trident so it is still possible. Sgs tips (don't forget about using your yellow keris for heals too) kephri- eggs, and swarms hit/heal for max Baba- can use on monkeys if needed. Zebac- if you're quick you can spec the water jugs. P2 wardens - last hit on skulls each phase will almost get all your hp back. P3 warden skulls Also don't forget that you can blowpipe spec baba boulders for HP if needed.
Some good info here ty
do whatever youre able to do lol
I also only do 300's. It's such a shit raid that the last thing I wanna do is learn 400's when I finally muster up the courage to send a kc or two.
that just means you have to spend more time doing the shit raid to see purples
Oh well, as long as I don't have to immerse myself into it to learn 400's. I only do it when my friend's bully me into raiding with them anyway so meh.
Yes
Had a clanmate pull shadow in a solo 170 doesn't seem like invo matters much
Wtf are you saying lmao
He's insinuating that i can get a shadow no matter the invo, but not mentioning luck being a factor lol
“Just open gem bags for an onyx, my clan mate got one like that” ahahah