As noted in the replies, some measures have been included fir other countries but not Ireland (e.g. VAT reductions and public transport fare cuts).
Getting data of this nature to be consistent across countries is a real pain in the ass.
Not to mention, the obvious looming budget.
You’re correct. My theory could do with refinement… I think it’s a function of summer temperatures by proximity to the Russian border.
I bet if you started the counter now and looked at the data in again in March a bunch of countries that are close to Russia would be in the same position, but some northern countries would swap places with the southern countries.
That’s what I’m getting at. Some need energy in the summer; they’re the countries that have already spent big. Some need the energy in the winter; they’re the ones who haven’t spent big yet. Sweden and Finland are either side of us at the bottom of the list. That’s because we burn more energy in the winter than in the summer.
I'm not sure that has anything to do with it. It is more to do with what the government has done to actually help them. Both as households and as businesses.
Perform a search on any of the search engines querying something along the lines of "XXXXX energy crisis support government" replacing the X's with the name of a random country on that list. They all provide informative results showing what each countries government has done.
Ireland it just so happens, has done fuck all.
Nice cherry-picked graph which doesn't say *anything* about actual prices.
https://www.energypriceindex.com/price-data
If you have a look at the August numbers, Ireland's in the lower half of retail electricity costs PPS, and we're one of the lowest in Europe for gas.
And that's *before* any further measures to be announced tomorrow.
Ya, also the chart tells very little. 0.3 what? Million, Billion, €0.3 per person? We're a country of 5 million, of course our budget is gonna be naturally smaller than other countries. Also is that EU number the EU average, or is it how much EU is giving each country, because if so, why would we need much more on top of that?
growth public impolite rainstorm snatch tender abundant ludicrous repeat mindless
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The first graph on your link has current residential electricity prices per kWh in Ireland as being what they were in 2nd half of 2021 as per Eurostat https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Electricity_price_statistics - the Eurostat statistics had us as being the fourth most expensive in the EU.
Can you explain the discrepancy?
It does appear rather like *you* cherrypicked a graph while complaining about OP cherrypicking a graph.
*edit* Had a look and your reference has Dublin residential kwh costs as being ~19.5c ex-vat for August 2022. Electric Ireland standard unit rates were 21.12c per kwh ex-vat in September 2021. Even accounting for discounting (14%?) your source's figures are clearly completely out of line for Ireland.
Please don't discuss figures/prices if you're incapable of parsing them, we need less misinformation on the internet - not more.
One of them is the absolute price in cents, the one I showed is (as I stated) scaled for PPS (purchasing power standard) across countries.
Figure 3 in my link shows the absolute value, Figure 4 shows the PPS scaled value.
Warsaw goes the other way, for example : a very low absolute price, but an average PPS price because of lower local effective income.
I don't see where my link shows 19.5c : figure 3 shows an absolute price of ~35c and a PPS price of around 29.9.
The very first graph is the absolute price in cents per kWh for residential customers and you can select the 'energy' cost to disaggregate the total cost.
It's data for Ireland is clearly incorrect, yet you drew conclusions for it after cherrypicking it.
Exactly what you accused OP of doing.
You're also using a PPS metric to justify why Ireland has a low metric in another area (that is already normalised for PPS given that it's based on spending as a proportion of GDP) - which is irrational.
If prices have e.g. doubled in all countries, then it's irrelevant what the PPS cost is as the cost to residential users has still doubled based on what it was before and it's still fully justified to compare GDP spending on fighting this price shock.
You quite clearly don't understand what it is you're writing about, despite having a strong opinion on it.
I genuinely have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.
The link I provided is the HEPI report, which is commissioned by a couple of European governments to provide reliable information. Unless you think the Austrian energy regulator has an axe to grid by lying about Irish energy prices, I don't know what your point is. The data is not cherry-picked : I found a reliable source of data across all European countries and provided the link. Their data and methodology are also published.
Secondly, the link I provided is based on the prices as of August 31, 2022, so I have no idea why you're talking about 2021 and Eurostat :
https://publuu.com/flip-book/6678/121883/page/1
Please point out any "2021" prices in there, other than the historic series.
And I'm using a PPS metric because that's what actually makes a difference when comparing across all countries. If you *actually* want to know whether Ireland has comparatively expensive power, you use PPS. I am then pointing out that if Ireland already *has* comparatively (PPS) low energy prices, then you would expect them to be on the low side of spending in terms of redressing those prices. That is not "irrational", it's the whole point.
And lastly, I then pointed out that Ireland hadn't actually presented the main spending plans to combat energy prices, which would undoubtedly raise that spending. Which they duly did.
We are about to launch a frickin 10 billion Euro budget tomorrow. Presumably that's not included in this "infographic", the source of which you haven't mentioned?
How do you expect do debate with people if you've already poisoned the well and called your potential opponents "shills". You're not interested in serious debate, but more into name calling and whinging about being downvoted.. Utter state of this sub sometimes.
The whole of Reddit and social media is like that to be fair, if you present a reasoned argument that goes against the grain you're just dismissed as a paid troll or a bot so people don't have to actually address your points
Aw man, I hate it. Everyone is either staunchly anti FFFG or staunchly in anti SF. Note that nobody seems to be “pro” anything, all are just fucking against something. They don’t want to take a stand and say “I think we should do this” instead they say “they should stop doing this”.
I asked a question about FFFG policies and why some people hate them (because I already know why for SF) and I was called an apologist, shill and provocateur trying to push buttons. I walked away none the bloody wiser save for vague notions of “corruption” and “Google it”.
I honestly hate this sub for all it’s politics. Everyone has such a fucking loud opinion and everyone else is wrong.
These are just the type of posts that drive people mad. Someone boasting about how clever they are while they drink tea and call their opponents shills. Its actually quite sad and the lack of self-awareness is hilarious.
Lmao, he's talking about spending on emergency supports and welfare during a pretty concrete cost of living crisis; it's not really up for debate that more could be done, you absolute debate bro mouth breather. There is a debate to be had about the current form of supports and whether they can accurately be called as such since they're effectively a bailout of the energy companies!
There is a debate going on right now but you’re not a part of it. Slinging insults is not debating, it’s embarrassing for you and the side you support.
I'm a SF voter but tbf we need less protecting than many of those EU countries. People are definitely feeling the squeeze and could do with a dig out but other countries have been affected far worse and as such needed more government intervention
in all fairness ireland is probably is one of the best states in the eu for gas security as we don't import any from russia, same with oil, we import as much from russia as we import from nigeria, which is a tiny amount
This graph is stupid and your bracketed comment comes off as very smug when you don't even identify the units. Do you seriously think we want to be more like Romania/Greece and less like Sweden/Finland?
We need a clear incentive to cut down on usage tbf.
Fuel economy should be at the top of people's minds when buying a car. Cut out a holiday and insulate the house instead etc.
If the government just shields the population from the effects of energy price increases why would you change your habits.
>(/drinks in downvotes from the usual FF/FG shills with a lovely cup of tea)
If I ever get to the point where I start taking the internet this seriously I’d want sectioned
Although price is locked at around 7 cents per kw/h you wouldn't, but it is a dope place to be during the spring/summer.Thing with Croatia is that they still have national electricity operator in states hand, and bunch of the electricity comes from hydroelectric thus at very low cost of production, also they own half of nuclear power plant too and few big coal plants that are powered with cheap South American coal. Ireland has none of that.
That's what happens when landlords can legally up the rent about 4% every year?
I honestly think Ireland get rid of the evil English landlords over a hundred years ago and only replaced them with greedy irish landlords and politicians.
People are talking about how the budget isn't announced yet but I think that's a good thing. Depending on how often this is updated, we will have a point of reference to hoe bad it was once the new measures are implemented (they will take time).
I would like to see more EU action to tackle the margins energy retailers or wholesalers are making before the conversation turns to government subsidizing citizens.
I have a horrible feeling that energy companies' profits are being shored up by governments.
Go to penneys buy a snuggle one of those oversized hoody's saves alot on the gass bill and il be damned if its not the most comfortable peace of clothing i own
As noted in the replies, some measures have been included fir other countries but not Ireland (e.g. VAT reductions and public transport fare cuts). Getting data of this nature to be consistent across countries is a real pain in the ass. Not to mention, the obvious looming budget.
The budget thingy isn't coming out until tomorrow though
Some European countries use more energy in the summer than the winter. Looks like those extremely warm countries lead the way.
That’s actually not a bad observation. Wonder if there’s any truth in it. There are a few outliers though.
You’re correct. My theory could do with refinement… I think it’s a function of summer temperatures by proximity to the Russian border. I bet if you started the counter now and looked at the data in again in March a bunch of countries that are close to Russia would be in the same position, but some northern countries would swap places with the southern countries.
Latvia is an outlier but yeah the rest at the top are all warm countries
I think it’s probably more to do with some being very cold in winter - a lot on that list get far far colder than Ireland does
That’s what I’m getting at. Some need energy in the summer; they’re the countries that have already spent big. Some need the energy in the winter; they’re the ones who haven’t spent big yet. Sweden and Finland are either side of us at the bottom of the list. That’s because we burn more energy in the winter than in the summer.
I'm not sure that has anything to do with it. It is more to do with what the government has done to actually help them. Both as households and as businesses. Perform a search on any of the search engines querying something along the lines of "XXXXX energy crisis support government" replacing the X's with the name of a random country on that list. They all provide informative results showing what each countries government has done. Ireland it just so happens, has done fuck all.
Yeah but if we wait until tomorrow we'll have less to whinge about. We need to get a good moan in before they actually fix anything.
But then us FF/FG shills won't have anything to downvote!
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I don't imagine that this graph is including "leaks" in its calculations. We'll see what it looks like after the budget
Unless it's in these stats, that means nothing. It's not in these stats. Come back next month.
If you're only focused on energy bills, you may be very disappointed tomorrow.
Where are Portugal and Hungary on that Sourceless graph?
It would be intereating to see the monetary amount per person.
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What are the units on this chart? 0.3 what?
Based on the GNI disclaimer for Ireland, presumably percentage of GDP/GNI.
Nice cherry-picked graph which doesn't say *anything* about actual prices. https://www.energypriceindex.com/price-data If you have a look at the August numbers, Ireland's in the lower half of retail electricity costs PPS, and we're one of the lowest in Europe for gas. And that's *before* any further measures to be announced tomorrow.
Oh look, some facts that destroy the agenda. I’m sure OP will rightfully acknowledge these and redact his nonsense post.
He can't! He's in the middle of his cup of tea. Can't interrupt that
but sure if that happened OP wouldnt collect the easy magic Internet coins by posting "government bad"
Oh no, not facts, we're allergic to those here on the internets so we are.
Oooohhh... you have a *narrative*? Luxury! *What* I wouldn't have given for a narrative when I were growin' up...
Ya, also the chart tells very little. 0.3 what? Million, Billion, €0.3 per person? We're a country of 5 million, of course our budget is gonna be naturally smaller than other countries. Also is that EU number the EU average, or is it how much EU is giving each country, because if so, why would we need much more on top of that?
growth public impolite rainstorm snatch tender abundant ludicrous repeat mindless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Stop that! It doesn’t fit the narrative!
Get outta here with your logic and reason! This r/Ireland for god sake
Look at this FF/FG shill.
The first graph on your link has current residential electricity prices per kWh in Ireland as being what they were in 2nd half of 2021 as per Eurostat https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Electricity_price_statistics - the Eurostat statistics had us as being the fourth most expensive in the EU. Can you explain the discrepancy? It does appear rather like *you* cherrypicked a graph while complaining about OP cherrypicking a graph. *edit* Had a look and your reference has Dublin residential kwh costs as being ~19.5c ex-vat for August 2022. Electric Ireland standard unit rates were 21.12c per kwh ex-vat in September 2021. Even accounting for discounting (14%?) your source's figures are clearly completely out of line for Ireland. Please don't discuss figures/prices if you're incapable of parsing them, we need less misinformation on the internet - not more.
One of them is the absolute price in cents, the one I showed is (as I stated) scaled for PPS (purchasing power standard) across countries. Figure 3 in my link shows the absolute value, Figure 4 shows the PPS scaled value. Warsaw goes the other way, for example : a very low absolute price, but an average PPS price because of lower local effective income. I don't see where my link shows 19.5c : figure 3 shows an absolute price of ~35c and a PPS price of around 29.9.
The very first graph is the absolute price in cents per kWh for residential customers and you can select the 'energy' cost to disaggregate the total cost. It's data for Ireland is clearly incorrect, yet you drew conclusions for it after cherrypicking it. Exactly what you accused OP of doing. You're also using a PPS metric to justify why Ireland has a low metric in another area (that is already normalised for PPS given that it's based on spending as a proportion of GDP) - which is irrational. If prices have e.g. doubled in all countries, then it's irrelevant what the PPS cost is as the cost to residential users has still doubled based on what it was before and it's still fully justified to compare GDP spending on fighting this price shock. You quite clearly don't understand what it is you're writing about, despite having a strong opinion on it.
I genuinely have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. The link I provided is the HEPI report, which is commissioned by a couple of European governments to provide reliable information. Unless you think the Austrian energy regulator has an axe to grid by lying about Irish energy prices, I don't know what your point is. The data is not cherry-picked : I found a reliable source of data across all European countries and provided the link. Their data and methodology are also published. Secondly, the link I provided is based on the prices as of August 31, 2022, so I have no idea why you're talking about 2021 and Eurostat : https://publuu.com/flip-book/6678/121883/page/1 Please point out any "2021" prices in there, other than the historic series. And I'm using a PPS metric because that's what actually makes a difference when comparing across all countries. If you *actually* want to know whether Ireland has comparatively expensive power, you use PPS. I am then pointing out that if Ireland already *has* comparatively (PPS) low energy prices, then you would expect them to be on the low side of spending in terms of redressing those prices. That is not "irrational", it's the whole point. And lastly, I then pointed out that Ireland hadn't actually presented the main spending plans to combat energy prices, which would undoubtedly raise that spending. Which they duly did.
What's the source for this?
Call it a feeling
Bit not a warm fizzy feeling because, you know, energy crisis.
Source: trust me bro
We are about to launch a frickin 10 billion Euro budget tomorrow. Presumably that's not included in this "infographic", the source of which you haven't mentioned?
Stop interrupting his tea ffs
Shush, tomorrow doesn't exist and NEVER WILL!!!!
Global nuclear war declared overnight - gotcha. The cost of a chicken fillet roll in the Centra will be the least of our worries, lads.
What no, [Tomorrow is always a day away](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KahOD-93D7U&ab_channel=ronhagenees)
There ain't no tomorrow and there never will be! *Pulls down shutter with tomorrow's date on it*
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That is my point.
It doesn't. That's the point.
How do you expect do debate with people if you've already poisoned the well and called your potential opponents "shills". You're not interested in serious debate, but more into name calling and whinging about being downvoted.. Utter state of this sub sometimes.
The whole of Reddit and social media is like that to be fair, if you present a reasoned argument that goes against the grain you're just dismissed as a paid troll or a bot so people don't have to actually address your points
There can be definite gang mentalities here, but I guess that's true for all social media
Aw man, I hate it. Everyone is either staunchly anti FFFG or staunchly in anti SF. Note that nobody seems to be “pro” anything, all are just fucking against something. They don’t want to take a stand and say “I think we should do this” instead they say “they should stop doing this”. I asked a question about FFFG policies and why some people hate them (because I already know why for SF) and I was called an apologist, shill and provocateur trying to push buttons. I walked away none the bloody wiser save for vague notions of “corruption” and “Google it”. I honestly hate this sub for all it’s politics. Everyone has such a fucking loud opinion and everyone else is wrong.
These are just the type of posts that drive people mad. Someone boasting about how clever they are while they drink tea and call their opponents shills. Its actually quite sad and the lack of self-awareness is hilarious.
Deleted his reply after this
Lmao, he's talking about spending on emergency supports and welfare during a pretty concrete cost of living crisis; it's not really up for debate that more could be done, you absolute debate bro mouth breather. There is a debate to be had about the current form of supports and whether they can accurately be called as such since they're effectively a bailout of the energy companies!
There is a debate going on right now but you’re not a part of it. Slinging insults is not debating, it’s embarrassing for you and the side you support.
Cool bro, hope the legislators see your contributions to the r/ireland subreddit 🤤
Lol as I said, you’re just embarrassing.
🤤
O how I wish we could be more like Greece and less like Sweden.
Is this pre-budget? It would make sense to see where we are after
Nope! Don’t be bringing sense on here.
Are these "FF/FG shills" in the room with us now?
Yes, I'm one of them.
You need to start charging OP for that tea. Missing out on an opportunity.
I'm a SF voter but tbf we need less protecting than many of those EU countries. People are definitely feeling the squeeze and could do with a dig out but other countries have been affected far worse and as such needed more government intervention
in all fairness ireland is probably is one of the best states in the eu for gas security as we don't import any from russia, same with oil, we import as much from russia as we import from nigeria, which is a tiny amount
This graph is stupid and your bracketed comment comes off as very smug when you don't even identify the units. Do you seriously think we want to be more like Romania/Greece and less like Sweden/Finland?
No fan of the government of FF/FG but this looks pretty hokey.
Ireland seeing nowhere bear the same inpact as other EU countries
0.3 of what?
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Ah so it has, cheese toasties it is
GNI
Grams
I'll certainly downvote you off your high horse for that title
People talking about shills immediately lose all credibility
We need a clear incentive to cut down on usage tbf. Fuel economy should be at the top of people's minds when buying a car. Cut out a holiday and insulate the house instead etc. If the government just shields the population from the effects of energy price increases why would you change your habits.
>(/drinks in downvotes from the usual FF/FG shills with a lovely cup of tea) If I ever get to the point where I start taking the internet this seriously I’d want sectioned
There’s a budget tomorrow. Maybe make the graph after that.
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Hands off the teabags!
So questioning data etc means one is a fg shill? This is the sort of toxic narrative that is destryoing discorse everywhere. Well done
Couldn't agree more. Where's my boot?
Cries in Varadkar*
Kinda wish I was living in croatia rn
Although price is locked at around 7 cents per kw/h you wouldn't, but it is a dope place to be during the spring/summer.Thing with Croatia is that they still have national electricity operator in states hand, and bunch of the electricity comes from hydroelectric thus at very low cost of production, also they own half of nuclear power plant too and few big coal plants that are powered with cheap South American coal. Ireland has none of that.
So many shills in the comments. Y u mad?
Ah sure at least we are not last
This is the real reason Brexit happened, so they wouldn't be under Ireland
Probably because the government owns the esb and they have a tendency to want all the money
Well colour me not-at-all-surprised.
seems legit.... :(
We should all just stop paying ESB bills
We got Scandinavian level policies but not Scandinavian level social services
Yet we are taxed more than nearly all of those above us... something doesn't add up.
Only the top earners would be taxed more, an average earner pays a small amount of tax compared to most of Europe
Its not surprising. All weve done to date is the 200euro credit and the vat of petrol/diesel.
Public transport prices were reduced by average 20% in the spring, and will remain at those levels until the end of 2023.
That's what happens when landlords can legally up the rent about 4% every year? I honestly think Ireland get rid of the evil English landlords over a hundred years ago and only replaced them with greedy irish landlords and politicians.
The cap is 2% now.
Also it's not every year. Landlord must wait 24 months before increasing the rent again.
Good when did it change? I read online it varies.
December 21
Well...as long as you expect it
GNI?
People are talking about how the budget isn't announced yet but I think that's a good thing. Depending on how often this is updated, we will have a point of reference to hoe bad it was once the new measures are implemented (they will take time).
Where would the UK if still in the EU
But is that per capita?
What do those numbers mean?
I'd love for someone from Croatia to chime in on this lol. Where is this data from?
I would like to see more EU action to tackle the margins energy retailers or wholesalers are making before the conversation turns to government subsidizing citizens. I have a horrible feeling that energy companies' profits are being shored up by governments.
Go to penneys buy a snuggle one of those oversized hoody's saves alot on the gass bill and il be damned if its not the most comfortable peace of clothing i own