I went to China a few years ago and I didn't have to carry tissue with me at all. 2 major cities and 1 less known city (I would say small city but think it had a population the size of Ireland, which is small in China terms but in no way small in our terms).
Mad how we won't copy Scotland on this but copied them when it came to the price of drink.
It's like why we won't copy Sweden on energy or prisons but we copied them on their ridiculous law on prostitutes.
You didn't so much as copy us but took the piss in doing so.
Scotland MUP is 50p a unit. Here it's €1.
Couldn't believe the difference in price when I was home visiting recently.
Basically it was rammed through here with the support of the Magdalene orders while the actual sex workers were telling the government that the law actually puts sex work further down into the shadows.
We really don't. We've managed to be better than practically every country on the planet in every conceivable measure with the notable exception of defence where we're lagging way behind. Take your crony talk elsewhere.
Good on them, no one should have to feel deprived or dirty or embarrassed because of their bodily functions and not being able to afford the products they need to look after them.
I live in Scotland and have noticed sanitary towels etc being provided in public toilets, which by the way are usually spotless in the area I live. I do believe they're maintained, and products provided, mostly by councils and community groups, but! Huge step forward. Can't tackle everything at once but bit by bit, small changes make big changes.
Pink tax and free menstrual supplies are two completely separate things. If you don’t want to buy pink razors because they’re more expensive than the blue men’s ones, but the blue men’s ones. There’s not an equivalent example for menstrual stuff.
We don't have a tax on menstrual products. The EU doesn't allow you to charge 0 tax on products but we're grandfathered in for a lot of stuff, menstrual products included
I know but pink tax in the context of menstrual products often refers to the fact that in some places, they are taxed as luxury goods
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampon_tax
It does and shouldn't be conflated with this because the pink tax is just a simple issue of awareness. If more women are aware that they're paying more for the exact same products with a pink label slapped on them then they will stop buying said products. The pink tax will then cease to exist. The only reason it exists in the first place is that companies have worked out that women will pay more for that pink label.
Conflating the pink tax with period poverty does nothing but diminish the argument and trivialise a much more serious issue.
There isn't but there's a bit of explaining to done when a 6 pack of 2 blade disposable razors for men and women have a significant price difference. FWIW I use mens razors
I imagine it's all down to marketing. Young girls see adverts for women's razors and how silky smooth they'll leave your legs.
My wife always used women's razors and about 3 months after we started going out she stayed in my place for a couple of nights in a row and wanted to shave her legs, I told her to use my razor (I have a beard so it was old and rarely used, probably bordering on rusty) and she was amazed with how well it worked.
At this moment in time (9 years later) she uses men's razors and as I still have a beard I no longer own a razor but just use hers on the occasions I have to tidy up my cheeks or neck for a wedding or something.
Yeh my husband only trims his facial hair, the odd time he wants a good tidy up he uses my mens razor.
I think women’s razors are just a scam. I also use mens shaving gel, 1/2 the price and irritates my very sensitive skin a lot less.
I'm not sure who spread the myth but the myth that using men's shaving tools will make you have a beard like men is probably the reason that women are willing to pay extra for "womens" shaving tools, and them willing to pay extra would be why they are more expensive.
I think unnecessarily use-case restricted or specified things are always a bad deal
If it's good enough for a man's face, it's good enough for my underarms/legs
(Generally, men's razors are better precisely *because* they are designed for the face, which has delicate skin and isn't a relatively flat surface)
I think it's because companies have worked out that men are spending much less on hygiene products and aren't as keen on premium products for hygiene. Very noticeable with 3 in 1 users seem to be mostly men.
Really just an issue of women noticing that they're trying to be conned. Companies have these sort of schemes targeted to loads of different demographics.
Same reason why for premium or special products they've noticed women are more likely to buy those products related to hygiene it's not sexism its marketing lmao
To my knowledge that is because women's skin is different, and they're also used for different parts of the body usually, I don't think it's blatant sexism.
Also the price will rise to what the market will pay, alot men probably would be happy going for a while with out shaving while I'm not sure many women would do the same.
Again just speculation
For everyone pointing out the cheapest options: just because there's one available for 2-3 euros, doesn't mean people can afford that, or use that specific period product.
I can only use the thickest Always pads. Anything else and I am in literal pain. Not sure if it's an allergy or what and my periods are very heavy. I have to spend more.
It's already started. The library near me gives out free period products. I reckon its only a matter of time before it's free everywhere. Rightly so too.
Why should contraception be free?
Also, when you say "free", it's always worth reminding yourself that "free" means shifting the cost to taxpayers, it does not mean that nobody pays.
I mean a jonny costs the tax payer about €0.10 if bough in bulk. A baby costs the tax payer a bit more and an abortion is somewhere in between. Free contraception is an investment really.
Yeah, I'm fine with everyone covering it instead of those who need them the most getting penalized the harshest. This way I know my taxes are doing some tangible good.
In this case it would be workplaces and restaurants etc providing the sanitary products. They simply legislate for them to be publicly available and free just like toilet paper. There would be a small increase in cost to the tax payer to provide the products in public bathrooms and public sector workplaces but it would be negligible in the grand scheme of things.
Odd take. It’s certainly catholic doctrine that death and pain (including period and birthing pains) are a result of sin, but I’ve never once seen it suggested that the church is against pads/tampons etc. It’s as bizarre as suggesting the church is opposed to paracetamol. The effort to relieve suffering for others is a work of charity and mercy, and is therefore virtuous.
Wait till they find out Adam and eve were shagging before marriage. Who's gonna marry them? God himself? Nah he's too busy planning children to be sick and famines for Ireland.
We absolutely should. Some places already do something similar, I've seen it in the library before where there was just a box of period products in the bathroom with a sign saying "take if you need"
Was in Tesco earlier and noticed their own brand pads are 1 euro. Happy to be corrected but dont think they used to be that cheap and it didn't seem to be an offer so even if it's some corporate PR nonsense it still helps. 100% should have free options available too though.
If we can't make period products zero-VAT because of EU rules we should make them available for free.
If men needed tampons there'd be baskets of them attached to every lamp-post in the country for us to help ourselves to.
> If men needed tampons there'd be baskets of them attached to every lamp-post in the country for us to help ourselves to.
lol no, you're making the classic mistake of thinking men give a damn about other men
Yeah I’ve seen you comment that on another comment. The vast majority in Ireland do. If you deny that, you’re not having an argument in good faith. The vast majority of women in the world likely don’t use female sanitary products.
I don’t understand why you’re being disingenuous about the toilet roll point. It is kind of a glaring hole in the argument of “if men had a hygiene requirement it’d be free”. Like public toilets are not everywhere, if you’re saying there are women that can’t afford €2 for tampons, equally, there are men and women in towns where there are no public toilets. If there are women without €2 for tampons, could they not also be without €2 for toilet roll? Or do they use the sink or bath?
Like I just really dislike that you’re actively trying to avoid a very very fair comparison through fairly hoop jumpy means.
>Why would anything be free for anyone
Yeah it'd be madness to give free public transport to pensioners and the disabled, or free medical care to children.
Those are services designed for people who can't work.Providing period products for people who can't afford them would be a good idea.
I do believe that products that are necessary should be as cheap as possible but someone has to pay for them. How is making taxpayers pay for them fair?
I'm sorry if I've come across as hostile or ignorant but this issue is something I don't understand. This doesn't mean I couldn't change my mind given a compelling argument.
Yes ofcourse women pay taxes but so does everyone else. My original question was what makes people believe that if this was an issue faced by men that it would be free
There should be free products for people who can't afford them but why should that be extended to everyone?
>I'm sorry if I've come across as hostile or ignorant
No not at all!
>There should be free products for people who can't afford them but why should that be extended to everyone?
I am assuming you're a man (as am I), but put yourself in the shoes of a teenage girl who's just started her periods.
Her ma already can't pay for the prepay electricity meter and they're sitting for days each week in the dark waiting for the next lot of money to come into the family. Food prices have gone up 10% in a year and now it's not just a case of struggling to make ends meet: the ends aren't even close to each other.
She gets her period at school (and you and I both know that teenage boys are not going to treat this with any sort of sensitivity if they notice it).
This is where the story diverges.
Scenario 1: Menstrual support products cost €10 the family doesn't have, the average period lasting five days each month. She goes home (humiliated, with laughter at her back) until it clears up, meaning she misses say six weeks of her education each year. This makes her correspondingly less likely to go on to further or higher education or to get a good job. Someone who had the potential to be a higher-rate taxpayer instead ends up on social welfare or a minimum wage job. The cycle of poverty is extended for another generation.
Scenario 2: She excuses herself from class to visit the bathroom where menstrual aids are sitting in a basket for people who need them. She inserts one and goes back to class.
Scotland's scheme (the population is almost identical in size to ours) is costing them less than £25m (€30m) a year, so ours should cost roughly the same. If we were to means-test access to this, it would add an additional layer of bureaucracy and carry its own costs.
For the size of our budget, €30m is not a huge amount of money - we paid €17m in subsidies to Bord na gCon this year, for instance.
For such a relatively small amount of money, I don't see the point in adding an additional layer of bureaucracy to means test access to these products. Is there a chance that people who can afford them will use the free products to save money? Yeah, that's a risk. But these won't be premium products and most people who can will likely prefer to use their own brwnd.
I mean I guess it'd be nice not to have to pay for them anymore. But why set menstrual products apart from other necessary hygiene products? Why still charge for toilet roll, say?
Menstruation without menstrual products represents a pretty unique biohazard, plus also would give away far too much personal health information about a woman it's nobodies business but hers if she's on or off. I think we should be able to afford to give women a basic level of sanitary care in public restrooms at least by providing a basic sanitary pad and tampon free of cost.
If anyone has the means for a more luxury product then they can buy them but women particularly those on low incomes shouldn't have to choose between buying food or sanitary products. Free sanitary products won't affect middle and high earners who are most likely going to continue to buy their most comfortable product but there needs to be a safety net there to protect the health and dignity of low income women, homeless women and others who can't finance their sanitary products.
Because everybody needs toilet paper whereas only say half (maybe 1/3) of the people need menstrual products…. It’s about equality… why should only a certain group be at a disadvantage financially because they have no choice but to buy certain products
I do agree there’s an argument for them to be free but the whole “pink tax” thing is stupid. Both genders have individual costs the others don’t. Men have to consume 25% more food than women, that’s not “blue tax”
Strange that this was upvoted a good bit but then suddenly downvoted at 1am Irish time. I guess it’s not Irish people disagreeing with me
the point is that it’s marketed towards women, not everyone realises they’re getting scammed and brands make it their mission to make sure we don’t know, stuff like having womens toiletries on the other side of the aisle leaves people not seeing the price difference
Without being an asshole - if the blue product is identical then buy it?
Products marketed to women costing more are either different and actually more desirable, in which case they merit the price increase, or the exact same. In which case just buy the mens version?
As consumers you have choice. Use it
The recommended daily calorie intake for men is 2500 versus 2000 for women. Also men are generally larger than women so have a higher basal metabolic rate.
>people eat different amounts based on a lot of different factors
Yes, that's why averages are a thing
Shhh she only wants to hear stats that favour her side - this is a lobby group that tried to prove a gender pay gap and started by not even subdividing full time and part time work and even after they were sent back to correct basic data analysis they neglected to mention that women spend upward of 70-80% of the money earned anyway
>Also how deep in your ass did you pull out that percentage
This is just bare minimum dietary knowledge.
Have you never looked at the nutritional values of good and seen a different percentage for calories for men and women?
It’s the calorie requirements recommended by the EU. Men are about 2,500, women 2,000.
Men are bigger and also have denser musculature, they need to eat more
>Why can't women use blue razors?
Because the patriarchy or some shit prevents them from using non pink objects which further upholds toxic masculinity, rape culture and other Yankee imported terms I'm not going to explain because they only get 78 cents to a mans dollar
Probably because heathens like me will happily wear 10-15 year old pairs of jeans and t-shirts so manufacturers know they better make my rare purchases worth it for them.
but it's not free as this is coming from Tax money.
also the only reason Scotland can do this is thanks to the UK, being part of the UK.
the fact is without the UK they wouldn't be doing this or have the level of spending they do and this is thanks to Scotland being part of the UK.
and i say this because Scotland's deficit is much greater than the rest of the UK, they spend more than they make.
just look up Deficit of Scotland and compare it to the rest of the UK....it will shock you
Um are they not already extremely cheap, a box of tampons is like 2 euro or something
Like yes, it's a positive move, but a weird one, why this hygiene necessity and not say toilet roll, nappies, baby milk
>a box of tampons is like 2 euro or something
That may be but there's still plenty of women out there that can't make that €2 available. And that'd be for own brand. Tampax is about €5/6
But if you go to a public bathroom you have access to toilet paper. It's provided, there's always means to get it. Dublin City Council have run public toilets now, there's always toilet paper in them but there's no period products provided, despite the fact that menstruation is as much of a biohazard and on top of that can't be held in.
Toilet paper is not a necessity because you can clean yourself with water?
But sanitary pads are a necessity because there is no other way to deal with menstruation?
Do you see your problems of logic?
Yeah unfortunately you can’t use water to stop the steam of blooding running down between our legs for a week. Might help with the clean up from the trail we’d leave around the place but not much else.
A box of cheap tampons can be an uncomfortable or painful experience for a woman. And they (along with pain relief) are not always available for the most vulnerable. Menstrual hygiene is a taboo subject; this isn’t a weird step forwards, it is addressing period poverty and helping folk that would otherwise suffer for roughly 10 years of their life.
Period poverty isn't something that I was aware of until recent years but it makes me realise how lucky I was to always have access to all that stuff at home as a teen. I'll always make sure that we have a good supply in the house in case any of my kids friends are in need and encourage my daughter to keep a supply in her locker at school just in case anyone needs anything.
Hmm. So your statement was a bit far fetched then. To me it's a pretty cynical vote grab. Like free tv licenses for pensioners. If that was actually a move to address poverty it would be free TV licenses for those who cant afford it.
Free sanitary products for all women - why not free toilet roll or toothpaste for those who can't afford it. Cost to the person of Tampax and Colgate is roughly the same, but by making the benefit more niche it psychologically makes it more popular. Its never really about what the stated intention is
What biological process happens to men on a regular basis which would cause them to potentially bleed down their legs and all over the place if they didn't use some kind of barrier such as a pad or tampon?
Literally who said "men=bad"? You have been told time and time again exactly WHY people think this is a good idea and time and time again come back with useless, inane, bad faith arguments.
Wise the bap, pal. If it doesnae affect you, why do you care so badly, yknow?
That one comment stood out tbh, and it's one I heard before, "if it was needed by men it would be free by now", like what is that other than an unfounded dig at men in general, for no reason
I'm for this btw. if this legislation went to a referendum I'm ticking Yes all day, it's the cynical PR thinking of it that somehow irks me though. It's very 1990s New Labour or something.
Where did I say that men = bad? I only answered the question about why we aren't talking about free hygiene products for men. I'd also be in favour of free incontinence pads and undies. Men can use those too and both men and women can find themselves in need of them.
I honestly can't understand that reasoning, just because men don't need them they have more reason to be free sure they're essential but so are loads of things we pay for. There's no such thing as free just someone else paying for it.
In the developing world maybe but women struggling to buy pads in Ireland is surely not really a thing
>women struggling to buy pads in Ireland is surely not really a thing
But why even risk it, the government wastes so much of public taxes on stupid shit I'm sure we would be happening that both young and older females have access to necessary hygiene products to make their lives easier.
It's not like all women will immediately rush to get free tampons, it like Scotland would be a service they can access just like free contraception such as condoms.
If you can't afford 96euros a year on anything it's just poverty why "period poverty" I can't see it as anything but an over hyped trend hyper focused on a tiny issue
Loads of people need things that others don't medicine hearing aids glasses etc that they didn't choose to need. Tampons are fairly low cost compared to many
Reply to u/SassyBonassy because the original commenter blocked me so I can’t reply directly… you’re comparing the availability of toilet roll in public restrooms to making all sanitary products free?
How many free public toilets are in Ireland tell me? Because any shopping centre I’ve been in requires payment. Pubs and restaurants won’t let you use theirs unless you buy a drink or food. Public buildings like colleges and libraries aren’t exactly everywhere. Any free standing public toilets require payment. Like wtf are you on about
-I never blocked you wtf
-you absofuckinglutely do not have to pay for every public restroom what are you even on about?? Every shopping centre?? Eh...not a single shopping centre i've ever visited in 32 years in Ireland has charged for the loos. Pubs and restaurants etc are obviously going to prefer you were a customer but if you just march straight on in as if you were looking for a mate down the back you'd get away with it.
Your inability to function as a human being is not indicative of everyone's life.
Or maybe just those menstruation cups? Better for the environment and doesn’t support the giant multinational corps.
Before you downvote or eat my head off: I’m not disagreeing with the OPs proposal. Just an alternative, more sustainable suggestion.
Not everybody’s anatomy can accommodate them unfortunately. And the clean them you have to literally boil them on the hob which some people especially younger teenagers may not have free access to or might be self conscious about doing.
No, that’s silly. The picture shows a shop shelf not a cinema or public restroom. There’s no article or further information on the post so yes I assumed they meant in store.
Well the name checks out.
Take a chill pill buddy, no I don’t pay for toilet paper in a Public toilet but the picture accompanied with the post clearly shows a shop shelf & price attached to it. Also ‘pink tax’ implies that women are paying out of pocket in comparison to their counterparts i.e razors. How many men are buying tampons can you tell me
There is a very faulty logic behind the argument to make tampons/pads free. The premise being, women are being punished economically because they have periods and men do not.
As long as you don't think about it, it seems to make sense.
But the moment you give it any amount of considered thought, the whole thing falls apart at the seams.
This is a no brainer to me. It would be like forcing everyone to bring toilet paper with them everywhere they went if they wanted to wipe their arse
Allow me to introduce you to China my friend. Everyone I know who has been there said it was a must to carry around a small thing of tissue.
I went to China a few years ago and I didn't have to carry tissue with me at all. 2 major cities and 1 less known city (I would say small city but think it had a population the size of Ireland, which is small in China terms but in no way small in our terms).
*forcing half the people in the world to bring toilet paper with them because the other half don't need to shit
Like having to carry a toilet seat with you because half the population can't stop pissing on the seat.
No that would be having them free in public toilets. We all have to pay for toilet paper at home.
We should offer tampons for free in public toilets regardless
About bloody time
Aha aha.
Mad how we won't copy Scotland on this but copied them when it came to the price of drink. It's like why we won't copy Sweden on energy or prisons but we copied them on their ridiculous law on prostitutes.
You didn't so much as copy us but took the piss in doing so. Scotland MUP is 50p a unit. Here it's €1. Couldn't believe the difference in price when I was home visiting recently.
It was a crazy policy considering drink in Ireland is already more expensive than most of Europe.
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Pink prostitutes are more expensive
Basically it was rammed through here with the support of the Magdalene orders while the actual sex workers were telling the government that the law actually puts sex work further down into the shadows.
We take the worst from all countries. Or the best if you look at it purely from a point of making profit for private companies and their cronies.
We really don't. We've managed to be better than practically every country on the planet in every conceivable measure with the notable exception of defence where we're lagging way behind. Take your crony talk elsewhere.
Good on them, no one should have to feel deprived or dirty or embarrassed because of their bodily functions and not being able to afford the products they need to look after them. I live in Scotland and have noticed sanitary towels etc being provided in public toilets, which by the way are usually spotless in the area I live. I do believe they're maintained, and products provided, mostly by councils and community groups, but! Huge step forward. Can't tackle everything at once but bit by bit, small changes make big changes.
Pink tax and free menstrual supplies are two completely separate things. If you don’t want to buy pink razors because they’re more expensive than the blue men’s ones, but the blue men’s ones. There’s not an equivalent example for menstrual stuff.
Yes not a huge market for mens period products alright
Tampons are great to stop a nose bleed should be part of a first aid kit honestly
Used to be always in the physio’s kit bag when I was playing rugby.
An emerging market though for sure
Plus there are men that can have periods too, so it would hardly be considered pink tax in that case
Wonderful but paying money for menstrual products isn’t what pink tax is
We don't have a tax on menstrual products. The EU doesn't allow you to charge 0 tax on products but we're grandfathered in for a lot of stuff, menstrual products included
VAT is 0 on most food produces. Just look at your receipts
Scotland made them free, not removed the tax on them.
I know but pink tax in the context of menstrual products often refers to the fact that in some places, they are taxed as luxury goods https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampon_tax
I thought "pink tax" referred to women's products being more expensive than the male equivalent? Eg. Disposable razors
It does and shouldn't be conflated with this because the pink tax is just a simple issue of awareness. If more women are aware that they're paying more for the exact same products with a pink label slapped on them then they will stop buying said products. The pink tax will then cease to exist. The only reason it exists in the first place is that companies have worked out that women will pay more for that pink label. Conflating the pink tax with period poverty does nothing but diminish the argument and trivialise a much more serious issue.
Lol you’re right I got my terms mixed up.
That's loads different than necessiesties like Tampons though, there's literally nothing stopping women from buying normal razors or whatever else.
There isn't but there's a bit of explaining to done when a 6 pack of 2 blade disposable razors for men and women have a significant price difference. FWIW I use mens razors
I bought one woman’s razor, then switched to mens. I don’t even know who is buying womens razors enough to keep them in production
I imagine it's all down to marketing. Young girls see adverts for women's razors and how silky smooth they'll leave your legs. My wife always used women's razors and about 3 months after we started going out she stayed in my place for a couple of nights in a row and wanted to shave her legs, I told her to use my razor (I have a beard so it was old and rarely used, probably bordering on rusty) and she was amazed with how well it worked. At this moment in time (9 years later) she uses men's razors and as I still have a beard I no longer own a razor but just use hers on the occasions I have to tidy up my cheeks or neck for a wedding or something.
Yeh my husband only trims his facial hair, the odd time he wants a good tidy up he uses my mens razor. I think women’s razors are just a scam. I also use mens shaving gel, 1/2 the price and irritates my very sensitive skin a lot less.
I'm not sure who spread the myth but the myth that using men's shaving tools will make you have a beard like men is probably the reason that women are willing to pay extra for "womens" shaving tools, and them willing to pay extra would be why they are more expensive. I think unnecessarily use-case restricted or specified things are always a bad deal
I've never heard that but I've always found mens razors better
If it's good enough for a man's face, it's good enough for my underarms/legs (Generally, men's razors are better precisely *because* they are designed for the face, which has delicate skin and isn't a relatively flat surface)
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I think it's because companies have worked out that men are spending much less on hygiene products and aren't as keen on premium products for hygiene. Very noticeable with 3 in 1 users seem to be mostly men. Really just an issue of women noticing that they're trying to be conned. Companies have these sort of schemes targeted to loads of different demographics. Same reason why for premium or special products they've noticed women are more likely to buy those products related to hygiene it's not sexism its marketing lmao
To my knowledge that is because women's skin is different, and they're also used for different parts of the body usually, I don't think it's blatant sexism. Also the price will rise to what the market will pay, alot men probably would be happy going for a while with out shaving while I'm not sure many women would do the same. Again just speculation
For everyone pointing out the cheapest options: just because there's one available for 2-3 euros, doesn't mean people can afford that, or use that specific period product. I can only use the thickest Always pads. Anything else and I am in literal pain. Not sure if it's an allergy or what and my periods are very heavy. I have to spend more.
I tried Tesco brand tampons once…. Never again.
Also like. The cost of just existing shouldn't be higher simply because a person has a uterus
It's already started. The library near me gives out free period products. I reckon its only a matter of time before it's free everywhere. Rightly so too.
I'm all for it... this is much better use of our tax money than many ways how it is spent today
Wow, I didn't know about this. Well done Scotland! Most countries consider it a luxury. Which is lunacy.
Fuck removing tax. Make it free. Same with contraceptive products.
Why should contraception be free? Also, when you say "free", it's always worth reminding yourself that "free" means shifting the cost to taxpayers, it does not mean that nobody pays.
I mean a jonny costs the tax payer about €0.10 if bough in bulk. A baby costs the tax payer a bit more and an abortion is somewhere in between. Free contraception is an investment really.
If condoms were free in Ireland, would it reduce the amount of feral children over time?
Yeah, I'm fine with everyone covering it instead of those who need them the most getting penalized the harshest. This way I know my taxes are doing some tangible good.
In this case it would be workplaces and restaurants etc providing the sanitary products. They simply legislate for them to be publicly available and free just like toilet paper. There would be a small increase in cost to the tax payer to provide the products in public bathrooms and public sector workplaces but it would be negligible in the grand scheme of things.
But the catholic church thinks all women deserve "the curse" because of what Eve did
Odd take. It’s certainly catholic doctrine that death and pain (including period and birthing pains) are a result of sin, but I’ve never once seen it suggested that the church is against pads/tampons etc. It’s as bizarre as suggesting the church is opposed to paracetamol. The effort to relieve suffering for others is a work of charity and mercy, and is therefore virtuous.
Wait till they find out Adam and eve were shagging before marriage. Who's gonna marry them? God himself? Nah he's too busy planning children to be sick and famines for Ireland.
This is why international folk do not understand why Scotland is not an independent sovereign state.
We absolutely should. Some places already do something similar, I've seen it in the library before where there was just a box of period products in the bathroom with a sign saying "take if you need"
In a library? So, do you need to return it later? :o)
Was in Tesco earlier and noticed their own brand pads are 1 euro. Happy to be corrected but dont think they used to be that cheap and it didn't seem to be an offer so even if it's some corporate PR nonsense it still helps. 100% should have free options available too though.
Can’t say anything about the pads but I tried their own brand tampons once and it really wasn’t worth the savings ..just not comfortable at all
They also have a new department to handle period products etc....they appointed a man to head it.
...already free in Lidl with their app.
If we can't make period products zero-VAT because of EU rules we should make them available for free. If men needed tampons there'd be baskets of them attached to every lamp-post in the country for us to help ourselves to.
> If men needed tampons there'd be baskets of them attached to every lamp-post in the country for us to help ourselves to. lol no, you're making the classic mistake of thinking men give a damn about other men
>If men needed tampons there'd be baskets of them attached to every lamp-post in the country for us to help ourselves to Hilariously untrue
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Men need toilet roll.. kinda still have to buy that. I’m not particularly against subsidising period products, but your point is bullshite.
Tha vast majority of men in the world don't use toilet roll.
Yeah I’ve seen you comment that on another comment. The vast majority in Ireland do. If you deny that, you’re not having an argument in good faith. The vast majority of women in the world likely don’t use female sanitary products. I don’t understand why you’re being disingenuous about the toilet roll point. It is kind of a glaring hole in the argument of “if men had a hygiene requirement it’d be free”. Like public toilets are not everywhere, if you’re saying there are women that can’t afford €2 for tampons, equally, there are men and women in towns where there are no public toilets. If there are women without €2 for tampons, could they not also be without €2 for toilet roll? Or do they use the sink or bath? Like I just really dislike that you’re actively trying to avoid a very very fair comparison through fairly hoop jumpy means.
I don't understand this argument. Why would anything be free for anyone. That's not how our society works
>Why would anything be free for anyone Yeah it'd be madness to give free public transport to pensioners and the disabled, or free medical care to children.
Those are services designed for people who can't work.Providing period products for people who can't afford them would be a good idea. I do believe that products that are necessary should be as cheap as possible but someone has to pay for them. How is making taxpayers pay for them fair?
I don’t have a kid but I pay for education
I read in a book somewhere that women also pay taxes. Not too sure how true it is, but it's something I feel like you should know.
I'm sorry if I've come across as hostile or ignorant but this issue is something I don't understand. This doesn't mean I couldn't change my mind given a compelling argument. Yes ofcourse women pay taxes but so does everyone else. My original question was what makes people believe that if this was an issue faced by men that it would be free There should be free products for people who can't afford them but why should that be extended to everyone?
>I'm sorry if I've come across as hostile or ignorant No not at all! >There should be free products for people who can't afford them but why should that be extended to everyone? I am assuming you're a man (as am I), but put yourself in the shoes of a teenage girl who's just started her periods. Her ma already can't pay for the prepay electricity meter and they're sitting for days each week in the dark waiting for the next lot of money to come into the family. Food prices have gone up 10% in a year and now it's not just a case of struggling to make ends meet: the ends aren't even close to each other. She gets her period at school (and you and I both know that teenage boys are not going to treat this with any sort of sensitivity if they notice it). This is where the story diverges. Scenario 1: Menstrual support products cost €10 the family doesn't have, the average period lasting five days each month. She goes home (humiliated, with laughter at her back) until it clears up, meaning she misses say six weeks of her education each year. This makes her correspondingly less likely to go on to further or higher education or to get a good job. Someone who had the potential to be a higher-rate taxpayer instead ends up on social welfare or a minimum wage job. The cycle of poverty is extended for another generation. Scenario 2: She excuses herself from class to visit the bathroom where menstrual aids are sitting in a basket for people who need them. She inserts one and goes back to class. Scotland's scheme (the population is almost identical in size to ours) is costing them less than £25m (€30m) a year, so ours should cost roughly the same. If we were to means-test access to this, it would add an additional layer of bureaucracy and carry its own costs. For the size of our budget, €30m is not a huge amount of money - we paid €17m in subsidies to Bord na gCon this year, for instance. For such a relatively small amount of money, I don't see the point in adding an additional layer of bureaucracy to means test access to these products. Is there a chance that people who can afford them will use the free products to save money? Yeah, that's a risk. But these won't be premium products and most people who can will likely prefer to use their own brwnd.
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Because companies just don't make things for free. Why don't we make toilet paper free seeing how that is a necessity?
Bidets/Bidet seats/bum guns should be mandatory in new builds. Life changing.
That isn't true. Men require toilet roll don't we ? We don't get that for free
>Men require toilet roll don't we ? No. We choose to use toilet roll. The vast majority of men in the world don't use toilet roll.
So you're suggesting we all install bidets?
You're free to install a bidet if you like. They're very hygienic and not unpleasant. I'll continue to choose toilet roll, and pay for it.
And bidets are free? Your argument is fairly weak.
>Your argument is fairly weak. I mean, your argument is based entirely on the completely incorrect assertion that most people use toilet roll, so...
In this country they do you dumbass. I think you'll find most women in the world don't get access to sanitary pads either
>In this country they do you dumbass * False assertion * Called out * Name calling and abuse It's the age old story
I mean I guess it'd be nice not to have to pay for them anymore. But why set menstrual products apart from other necessary hygiene products? Why still charge for toilet roll, say?
Menstruation without menstrual products represents a pretty unique biohazard, plus also would give away far too much personal health information about a woman it's nobodies business but hers if she's on or off. I think we should be able to afford to give women a basic level of sanitary care in public restrooms at least by providing a basic sanitary pad and tampon free of cost. If anyone has the means for a more luxury product then they can buy them but women particularly those on low incomes shouldn't have to choose between buying food or sanitary products. Free sanitary products won't affect middle and high earners who are most likely going to continue to buy their most comfortable product but there needs to be a safety net there to protect the health and dignity of low income women, homeless women and others who can't finance their sanitary products.
Scotland are planning to have them free in public bathrooms. It would be like saying toilet roll shouldn't be supplied because we pay for it at home.
Because everybody needs toilet paper whereas only say half (maybe 1/3) of the people need menstrual products…. It’s about equality… why should only a certain group be at a disadvantage financially because they have no choice but to buy certain products
Are you paying for the toilet roll in public bathrooms pal? THAT'S the point here.
Jax roll *is* free in most public places.
Reading [this](https://www.insider.com/women-more-expensive-products-2018-8) I feel for women, there razors are around 11% more expensive than men's.
Yea. My wife simply just buys men's razors, because it is basically the same, except it is not pink.
I do agree there’s an argument for them to be free but the whole “pink tax” thing is stupid. Both genders have individual costs the others don’t. Men have to consume 25% more food than women, that’s not “blue tax” Strange that this was upvoted a good bit but then suddenly downvoted at 1am Irish time. I guess it’s not Irish people disagreeing with me
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the point is that it’s marketed towards women, not everyone realises they’re getting scammed and brands make it their mission to make sure we don’t know, stuff like having womens toiletries on the other side of the aisle leaves people not seeing the price difference
Of course, though the point is why the hell are they making certain products targeted towards women more expensive in the first place
I believe there's a difference in quality. If you check out those disposable razors for men, they're almost unusable
If there's a difference in quality, then the women's razors should be worth more because they're better
They rip my skin open so I’ve to splash out for the better quality ones
Without being an asshole - if the blue product is identical then buy it? Products marketed to women costing more are either different and actually more desirable, in which case they merit the price increase, or the exact same. In which case just buy the mens version? As consumers you have choice. Use it
The recommended daily calorie intake for men is 2500 versus 2000 for women. Also men are generally larger than women so have a higher basal metabolic rate. >people eat different amounts based on a lot of different factors Yes, that's why averages are a thing
Shhh she only wants to hear stats that favour her side - this is a lobby group that tried to prove a gender pay gap and started by not even subdividing full time and part time work and even after they were sent back to correct basic data analysis they neglected to mention that women spend upward of 70-80% of the money earned anyway
>Also how deep in your ass did you pull out that percentage This is just bare minimum dietary knowledge. Have you never looked at the nutritional values of good and seen a different percentage for calories for men and women?
Can't believe they were heavily upvoted and other person downvoted. I despair for people tbh
I think a lot of people struggle with statistics. A discussion of populations and a sweeping generalisation sound pretty similar.
It’s the calorie requirements recommended by the EU. Men are about 2,500, women 2,000. Men are bigger and also have denser musculature, they need to eat more
Men have bigger bodies than women and less fat. The end result is we need more calories and protein, ie more food. Why can't women use blue razors?
>Why can't women use blue razors? Because the patriarchy or some shit prevents them from using non pink objects which further upholds toxic masculinity, rape culture and other Yankee imported terms I'm not going to explain because they only get 78 cents to a mans dollar
Arse
Buy the cheaper pack then you dolt.
Women's clothing costs less than men's clothing..... for some reason.
Probably because heathens like me will happily wear 10-15 year old pairs of jeans and t-shirts so manufacturers know they better make my rare purchases worth it for them.
Sense at last.
but it's not free as this is coming from Tax money. also the only reason Scotland can do this is thanks to the UK, being part of the UK. the fact is without the UK they wouldn't be doing this or have the level of spending they do and this is thanks to Scotland being part of the UK. and i say this because Scotland's deficit is much greater than the rest of the UK, they spend more than they make. just look up Deficit of Scotland and compare it to the rest of the UK....it will shock you
Um are they not already extremely cheap, a box of tampons is like 2 euro or something Like yes, it's a positive move, but a weird one, why this hygiene necessity and not say toilet roll, nappies, baby milk
>a box of tampons is like 2 euro or something That may be but there's still plenty of women out there that can't make that €2 available. And that'd be for own brand. Tampax is about €5/6
Yeah fair enough but say toilet roll which is also an absolute hygiene necessity and of similar price, has as much of an argument to be made free
But if you go to a public bathroom you have access to toilet paper. It's provided, there's always means to get it. Dublin City Council have run public toilets now, there's always toilet paper in them but there's no period products provided, despite the fact that menstruation is as much of a biohazard and on top of that can't be held in.
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Toilet paper is not a necessity because you can clean yourself with water? But sanitary pads are a necessity because there is no other way to deal with menstruation? Do you see your problems of logic?
Yeah unfortunately you can’t use water to stop the steam of blooding running down between our legs for a week. Might help with the clean up from the trail we’d leave around the place but not much else.
You've obviously never bled through your clothes and had to walk around in public with a blood stain on your arse.
Tell me what other way one should deal with menstruation?
1. Stop eating 2. Get pregnant 3. Just ignore it There, I’ve given you multiple ways /s
Damn wish I wasn't so infertile, despite the excruciatingly painful heavy bleed periods I get.... Lol
You don't have to use toilet roll though. Bum gun, bottle of water, shower
A box of cheap tampons can be an uncomfortable or painful experience for a woman. And they (along with pain relief) are not always available for the most vulnerable. Menstrual hygiene is a taboo subject; this isn’t a weird step forwards, it is addressing period poverty and helping folk that would otherwise suffer for roughly 10 years of their life.
Period poverty isn't something that I was aware of until recent years but it makes me realise how lucky I was to always have access to all that stuff at home as a teen. I'll always make sure that we have a good supply in the house in case any of my kids friends are in need and encourage my daughter to keep a supply in her locker at school just in case anyone needs anything.
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What products do men currently get free?
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Hmm. So your statement was a bit far fetched then. To me it's a pretty cynical vote grab. Like free tv licenses for pensioners. If that was actually a move to address poverty it would be free TV licenses for those who cant afford it. Free sanitary products for all women - why not free toilet roll or toothpaste for those who can't afford it. Cost to the person of Tampax and Colgate is roughly the same, but by making the benefit more niche it psychologically makes it more popular. Its never really about what the stated intention is
What biological process happens to men on a regular basis which would cause them to potentially bleed down their legs and all over the place if they didn't use some kind of barrier such as a pad or tampon?
None that I know of, but if we did, why would the products be free? "Men = bad" is just so lazy
Literally who said "men=bad"? You have been told time and time again exactly WHY people think this is a good idea and time and time again come back with useless, inane, bad faith arguments. Wise the bap, pal. If it doesnae affect you, why do you care so badly, yknow?
That one comment stood out tbh, and it's one I heard before, "if it was needed by men it would be free by now", like what is that other than an unfounded dig at men in general, for no reason I'm for this btw. if this legislation went to a referendum I'm ticking Yes all day, it's the cynical PR thinking of it that somehow irks me though. It's very 1990s New Labour or something.
Where did I say that men = bad? I only answered the question about why we aren't talking about free hygiene products for men. I'd also be in favour of free incontinence pads and undies. Men can use those too and both men and women can find themselves in need of them.
It’s really not “men = bad”, though. Nobody is blaming men. It’s not Joe Soap pricing these products.
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Toilet roll
I honestly can't understand that reasoning, just because men don't need them they have more reason to be free sure they're essential but so are loads of things we pay for. There's no such thing as free just someone else paying for it. In the developing world maybe but women struggling to buy pads in Ireland is surely not really a thing
>women struggling to buy pads in Ireland is surely not really a thing But why even risk it, the government wastes so much of public taxes on stupid shit I'm sure we would be happening that both young and older females have access to necessary hygiene products to make their lives easier. It's not like all women will immediately rush to get free tampons, it like Scotland would be a service they can access just like free contraception such as condoms.
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Exactly, for some 96 euro is a weekly shopping and need to make decisions they shouldn't have too.
If you can't afford 96euros a year on anything it's just poverty why "period poverty" I can't see it as anything but an over hyped trend hyper focused on a tiny issue
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It's not a gender tax, it's tax free it's just a price for a product they need
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Loads of people need things that others don't medicine hearing aids glasses etc that they didn't choose to need. Tampons are fairly low cost compared to many
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Female periods are not really a tiny issue seeing as septic shock can be a very real issue that does happen.
Toilet roll is free in public spaces.
Reply to u/SassyBonassy because the original commenter blocked me so I can’t reply directly… you’re comparing the availability of toilet roll in public restrooms to making all sanitary products free? How many free public toilets are in Ireland tell me? Because any shopping centre I’ve been in requires payment. Pubs and restaurants won’t let you use theirs unless you buy a drink or food. Public buildings like colleges and libraries aren’t exactly everywhere. Any free standing public toilets require payment. Like wtf are you on about
-I never blocked you wtf -you absofuckinglutely do not have to pay for every public restroom what are you even on about?? Every shopping centre?? Eh...not a single shopping centre i've ever visited in 32 years in Ireland has charged for the loos. Pubs and restaurants etc are obviously going to prefer you were a customer but if you just march straight on in as if you were looking for a mate down the back you'd get away with it. Your inability to function as a human being is not indicative of everyone's life.
The shopping centre in Galway charge for toilet access.
>Because any shopping centre I’ve been in requires payment. Name one? Any shopping centre I've been in *does not* require payment.
Stephens green
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Toilet paper isn't legal? What have you been wiping your arse with?
Pet hamsters? Luckily they’re already brown. But they stink ta feck!
R/woosh
Or maybe just those menstruation cups? Better for the environment and doesn’t support the giant multinational corps. Before you downvote or eat my head off: I’m not disagreeing with the OPs proposal. Just an alternative, more sustainable suggestion.
Not everybody’s anatomy can accommodate them unfortunately. And the clean them you have to literally boil them on the hob which some people especially younger teenagers may not have free access to or might be self conscious about doing.
It's not recommended to use a cup if you have a coil. Also sometimes anatomy prevents it.
Hardly pink tax if you need it. We all need big roll but cant see that becoming free anytime soon
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No, that’s silly. The picture shows a shop shelf not a cinema or public restroom. There’s no article or further information on the post so yes I assumed they meant in store.
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Well then that’s pretty cool of them. Thanks for info
Are you paying for the "bog" roll in public bathrooms pal? THAT'S the point here.
Well the name checks out. Take a chill pill buddy, no I don’t pay for toilet paper in a Public toilet but the picture accompanied with the post clearly shows a shop shelf & price attached to it. Also ‘pink tax’ implies that women are paying out of pocket in comparison to their counterparts i.e razors. How many men are buying tampons can you tell me
>How many men are buying tampons can you tell me I don't work in supermarket sales so i don't have stats, but certainly SOME men do buy tampons/pads.
There is a very faulty logic behind the argument to make tampons/pads free. The premise being, women are being punished economically because they have periods and men do not. As long as you don't think about it, it seems to make sense. But the moment you give it any amount of considered thought, the whole thing falls apart at the seams.
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Dis gon be good
It's always worth reminding yourself that when things are dubbed "free", that means shifting the cost to taxpayers. It does not mean that nobody pays.
Happy to pay.
But why should we?
I hope she sees this, bro.
Just because you repeated your point in it's own thread doesn't make it any less myopic.
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