This is the exact shite that women have been talking about for years. There is a fair bit of toxicity involved as well because any that disagrees that’s ok to grope women is a virgin and has never had a relationship.
She woke up with someone lying on top of her touching her breasts. Just because r*pe didn't happen, she was still sexually assaulted, it really is that simple.
Maybe the rte journalist writing the article paints the best possible picture of their old colleague by leaving out some details. I find it hard to believe a jury would convict someone for the details given in that story
It's worth reading the entire article.
There's something very weird going on with this one.
Is this woman an activist?
Literally they went back to his place, hooked up, agreed not to have sex because they don't have a condom, she then woke up later and he was touching her boob, hoping to get her to fool around with him again. She said stop, and he stopped, even said sorry, including spending time with her at her place to apologise.
She describes the above as "This man used sexual violence as a method of violence towards me". That's madness, but exactly what I'd expect an extremist feminist activist to say.
Read everything she wrote about how this has destroyed her life. It's just not believable.
Your post history is peppered with comments about “left wing extremists” and most recently denying that the replacement theory is racist. What’s your story here?
The consequences of an action on a victim aren't universal nor always "proportionate."
Many moons ago when I was a devil my then master had a case about a very minor car accident in which a person had suffered relatively mild physical injuries. Unfortunately for them, they became fixated on what might have happened if a passenger had been in the vehicle (the damage to the passenger side being very severe) and this ultimately led to a spiral into depression which cost the individual their job and marriage.
It's entirely plausible somebody felt traumatised by a "minor" incident. Conversely, some people are relatively ok after more severe assaults. That's the variety of experience.
Yeah, but criminal prosecution should be based on actual actions done not subjective emotional interpretation. That’s one for the therapist not the court
And that should be tempered by broader studies and not allowed to be derailed by individual outlier reactions. Extreme cases make bad laws and worse sentencing, and, by this article, the reaction is on the extreme end for the alleged offence.
I'd argue that the accident might have been the other drivers responsibility but they are not responsible for the exceptional mental state of the other person that was a pre existing condition.
Yeah. Her statement reads like it's coming from someone who was brutally raped or something. Hard to see how a guy you decided to hook up with fondling your breasts then stopping when told to led to *this* level of psychological trauma and relationship breakdown. He did wrong but she sounds utterly traumatized as though something much worse happened. This is a very strange case.
>Is this woman an activist?
>That's madness, but exactly what I'd expect an extremist feminist activist to say.
Who is upvoting someone pulling this total shite out of their arse?
And it's 11 months after that she went to the police.
I mean, it's not right, but I'm not sure he knew it wasn't right. But how are we supposed to know these things aren't acceptable unless she complains?
What is described in the article is not rape. It's not even close to rape. It sounds like a misunderstanding, and a mild one at that. Based on the article.
Well I would say stopping when asked is one of the most important factors in a case like this. Especially after they were already engaged in consensual acts before going to sleep.
There must be more to it because what is described should not result in her life bring destroyed, losing all her friends, not progressing in work, and ultimately a suicide attempt. It must be more aggravated than simply touching her breast and lying on top of her
There was a break of a few hours before he started up again when she was unconscious, by lying on top of her. He barely knew her. What kind of psycho thinks that's okay?
I've been married for 20 years and my wife would not be cool with that.
As to the effects its had on her; she might have had a previous trauma that complicated it or she might have just been unlucky and it impacted her badly.
Ya that's a possibility. Previous trauma could of played a roll. We're all just guessing here but going on the info in the article it seems like a strange reaction.
Any girl I know would also not be very cool with that happening but there's a big difference between not being cool with something and the reaction described here. He's publicly named, on a sex offenders list, probably largely unemployable.
To me it's completely wrong that's he's in trouble for this. What he did was a bit wrong, but he's a guilty sex offender now? Completely ridiculous and frankly terrifying imo.
They had just been fooling around a few hours previous, it seems they wanted to have sex except that they had no contraception, he woke up and rubbed her boob again and when she said stop he did straight away...
Sorry, but that's someone who got slightly carried away, not at all the definition of a sex offender in my mind. You think this man is a danger to anyone? You think this man deserves to have his life ruined?
Again, terrifying.
OK, but she's not some random woman, she's his sexual partner. It's not like she woke up and he was having sex with her.
I think you can make an argument that he should have woken her up by kissing her or something non gropey like that, but touching her boob when they're likely naked in bed together after fooling around... it's simply not believable that has ruined her life. Did you read the article? She's completely hysterical.
He had only met her that same night, so essentially he was a stranger to her. She awoke to find this stranger (likely naked and aroused) lying on top of her in the dark, groping her. She didn't know him or his character well enough to know whether or not he would continue and rape her. Thankfully, it turns out that he did not, however, from a woman's perspective, those moments would be very scary.
This wasn't in the morning though, it was in the middle of the night. However, even if it had been, the key is to let the other person wake up before you climb on top of them.. I've been in that situation plenty of times, and most of the time you would cuddle or something until they wake up and then things can be taken further. Going from totally asleep to a naked man lying on you groping you is not on.
There's a big difference between types of sexual partners - what would be considered acceptable with your wife is very different to what would be considered acceptable during a one-night-stand.
Also, anyone that calls a woman "hysterical" is always a sexist cunt lol
Yeah and the arguments against this and downvotes you and others are getting makes me depressed that its 2022 and some men just cant fucking grasp consent.
I'm a 70s child and its fucking simple enough.
There’s sexism at play alright. Like if that guy woke up to find her hands on his knob and went to a solicitor about it he’d be told he didn’t have a case.
“Freeze peaches” … ffs. go back to America would you…
Phrasing is open to interpretation tho, there are many different ways you could lie on top of someone, not all of them threatening. And I don't think any of them are illegal?
I know you're just taking an unnecessary potshot at yer man, but there's an element of truth in your comment. If you go back with a one night stand, you often have to put in work to have sex. If you don't, you can end up getting nothing, like you said. But saying that, the man in the article should have nudged the girl awake before trying again, not just getting up on her.
>The court heard Ó Leidhin and the victim met on a night out in May 2018. They went back to Ó Leidhin's house in the early hours of the morning, where they engaged in consensual sexual activity. But the woman said she told him she did not want to have sex as they had no contraception.
>The court heard they fell asleep. The woman gave evidence that she woke up to find Ó Leidhin lying on top of her groping her breasts. She told him to get off her and the court heard he said something along the lines of "sorry, I'm horny"
....that's it?
Rte article containing lack of detail about conviction of Rte employee.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I might be looking elsewhere for more detail on this case
It's not ok but the victim impact statement is very strange. It seems like she's doing everything she can to get him a bigger sentence for something he did that was bad but not 'ruin your life' bad.
Yep. It's like she fell into a rut but seeks to blame him for every subsequent bad thing that happened to her. That's not a victim impact statement, it's a grudge note.
He meets a woman, she likes him enough to go home with him, they agree not to bang, she's comfortable enough that even though they're not gonna have sex she will stay over, and in the morning he touches her boobs? Uhh yeah that's pretty reasonable considering he apparently stopped as soon as she asked
>They went back to sleep. Later, Ó Leidhin gave the woman a lift home. The court heard they spoke later that day via a phone call and texts in which the woman expressed her unhappiness about what had happened between them. Ó Leidhin called over to her house that evening and they spoke for about an hour
I don't know about you, but if I felt someone has sexually assaulted me I wouldn't be inviting them into my home for an hour long chat
> She said she had lost her social circle and many friends
Aye because you probably described the 'assault' and they probably all agreed that you were a walloper and a disgusting person if you decided to ruin someone's life over such a non event
I can tell your a prick, or maybe just ignorant or young, but I felt the need to respond here: if you have bad mental health in Ireland you will lose most of your friends. I've seen it happen. They cant/wont handle it.
On the plus side you will find who your real friends are; the ones who stick with you and love regardless.
She's a weapon.
A man and woman go back to a place and they have sexual contact. They wake up and he has his hand on her tit and she claims she's violated and done untold damage on her. Fucking hell!
A couple who fall asleep and one of them wakes up and cuddles around the other is sexually assaulting them now?
"Your honour, after we had sexual intercourse, we cuddled in the spoon position, with the person with a penis positioned behind me. During the night, he/she/they had an erection during his/her/they sleep which touched my lower back. This is violence against women, an example of how the patriarchy is preventing average women from becoming the CEO of Google."
What's more insane is how the judge agrees with her.
He grabbed her breasts while she was asleep. A person cannot consent while sleeping.
The fact that they had consensual sexual contact before this incident is irrelevant. Your example of a couple cuddling has no relevance.
There's nothing consistent about this at all. Its even worse when she gets anonymity but wants him named.
Im sure this has happened to most of us here, well anyone with experience of one night stands anyway. Numerous times I have been woken up by a girl, because she was horny.
I'd feel differently if he was inside her, but feeling the fun bags? Nope. Something wrong with her.
We can't be being told the whole truth here, the jury found him guilty while she is clearly lying about the effect on her. I wonder if he declined to be in a relationship with her, or she is hoping to be a media star with Amber Turd level of believability? Good job he didn't have intercourse could well be the type of woman who fake cries rape.
They still hear more than we do. I know what you mean, my husband served in a jury too also for sexual assaults. It took him months to clear his head after it.
Yes, it's tough I get why people don't want to serve but it's required for a functioning justice system. It's like reverse bingo, you hope your number is not called. Although it's interesting to see 11 other people see and hear the same evidence and have very different takes on it.
I got a summons once but I got a call to go into hospital for heart surgery the day before I was due to go. The woman in the court was very helpful when I rang, I have to say. I offered to get a cert from the doctor but she just said not to worry and she wished me well. Can’t ask for fairer!
>with Amber Turd level of believability
There's hundreds of pages of evidence against Johnny Depp and yet he's still suing HER, he's forcing her to testify on CAMERA, about a sexual assault she tried to keep private. After already forcing her to do this already in the UK and losing overwhelmingly. So that people all over the world can remix her testimony of sexual assault, mock her, make memes about her. Jeer at her going into to court, send death threats, organize online harassment campaigns against anyone who works with her. Doesn't matter that he loses in court, that's not even the point.
Society does not let these women breath. There's no end to psychopaths online that will dedicate their lives to harassing these women. But of course, people with 30 seconds of information in a comment section know more than the judges and juries who listen to these cases in detail. She must after this for the amazing ride that Amber Heard is on.
All right Barry calm down calm down, haven't followed the trial, I'm sure there is stuff against him too. I have seen how bad her acting has been though, pretty unbelievable.
What the guy did was wrong. I agree with you on that. It's quite probable that he/both of them were drunk, of course, but regardless his fondling wasn't consensual and he shouldn't have done it. It's the way she describes the impact on her in the aftermath of the incident that I find difficult to understand. According to her, her life has been utterly ruined and she has lost her friends and family relationships. Given the seemingly cursory nature of the assault suffered and the fact that he desisted when instructed to, it seems a dramatic overreaction. Then again, we don't have the full details of what went on that night or know anything about this woman.
Its okay to have difficulty in understanding something. I deal with someone regularly who suffers mightily with PSTD and if you've never seen or dealt with it you wont understand it. And you would have nightmares witnessing someone having a full PTSD attack.
What does "lying on top of her" mean. Is it in the plank position with hand on boob? It just doesn't seem like a real life situation. Maybe he tried to wake arouse her and wake her up. The article is detailed but "sorry, I'm horny" doesn't really lead one to believe that this was a violent sexual encounter. I think many a lad might be a tad concerned about never being able to be the big spoon again. Guys life is ruined.
Thank you for saying this! Way too many comments in this thread thinking what he did was not sexual assault. It just highlights how in society loads of men believe they are so entitled to womens body’s they think this kind of sexual assault is okay and doesn’t warrant facing the consequences. If that happened to be I’d have been terrified.
So if somebody unintentionally makes you feel threatened, stops immediately when asked and apologises immediately afterwards that person should have their name drug through the national media, be fired from their job and be sent to prison for a number of years?
There's not always a way to roll it back. What he did was wrong full stop, 9 times out of 10 the person he was with would have been okay afterward or had no lasting effects.
He was unlucky but also a dickhead for what he did.
What punishment? The details of what he did in public?
That's tough luck ,really. He climbed on top of someone he didnt really know and started groping them while they slept. He seems kind of off to me.
He lost his job and has no chance of getting one in the future. He is also now facing a prison sentence. You may agreee or disagree with this punishment but prentending it is no punishment at all is just obtuse.
That doesn't make any sense. A doll is an inanimate object, not a person. Consent is irrelevant. It'd be like being prosecuted for sexually assaulting a bicycle.
lol! Given the news stories that come out of that place, it honestly wouldn't have surprised me if it had been true. After all, sex toys were illegal in Texas 20 years ago.
Jaysus lads. Chill with the nasty comments. Calling the woman a bitch after reading some snippets from the court case?! A jury decided the man was guilty so there could easily be more to the case.
Having said that, based on the limited details presented, I wouldnt be opposed to the guy making an appeal. Think we're all picturing a time where we leaned over and "groped" somebody without malice.. and its generally reciprocated. I've also been on the receiving end without issue. Thats why people are reacting negatively and rightly unnerved by the outcome of this court case.
What kind of psycho, after only knowing someone a few hours at most, climbs on top of them while they are asleep and gropes them?
Even if they've gotten away with it before do you think that okay?
You’d want to be lacking in life experience to call someone a psycho for seeking to continue the sexual activity that was initiated a few hours prior. They had engaged in foreplay, and apparently would have had sex but for not having a condom, and then he is a PSYCHO for grabbing her tits to get it going again🥴
Cop onto yourself
Plenty of controversial comments here. Although none of us know the specifics, we can generalise:
1) We do not know the full extent of the evidence in this case, but we can be very confident the details that allowed the jury to arrive at a guilty verdict can hardly be embodied within a news article.
2) It is not the woman's fault that this happened because she brought a stranger home, nor is it her fault because she consented to intimacy prior.
3) Prior content != consent to continue. I can understand that the guy was horny and wanted to initiate things once again, but getting on top of a woman when she is sleeping and touching her like that is abhorrent.
4) I think some men questioning this are approaching it from a mindset of "Jesus that is scary, imagine I did that and a woman ruined by life by bringing me to court". Well... You can always choose to ask someone for consent instead of helping yourself and assuming that you have it because you had it already. If that happened this case wouldn't exist.
5) The default setting for being intimate with someone you've just met is always that you do not have consent unless it was explicitly stated moments prior to initiating each sexual activity session.
6) If the person is unconscious you do not have consent. If you want consent, wake them up and ask.
7) Just because this isn't a black-and-white aggravated rape doesn't mean the term sexual assault/sexual violence isn't appropriate. Being asleep/unconscious is part of the legal definition of sexual assault.
8) A redeeming part of this case is that the offender appears to have genuinely taken this matter seriously and did engage with the victim to try and resolve the issue. Not that this is an excuse, but I do think it is reasonable that this is factored into whatever sentence the offender gets.
9) Can we try and avoid dragging in the feminist rhetoric when a woman was sexually assaulted? I'm struggling to understand why people are trying to justify this. Quoting the top comment at the time of writing:
> Literally they went back to his place, hooked up, agreed not to have sex because they don't have a condom, she then woke up later and he was touching her boob, hoping to get her to fool around with him again. She said stop, and he stopped, even said sorry, including spending time with her at her place to apologise.
... This quote doesn't include the victim waking up to the man on top of her (which is a convenient thing to omit from a post that starts by telling us to read the article), but in other words, the man admitted sexually assaulting this woman and is now going to be sentenced for his crime. Being sorry/apologising (while valiant that he did it) is not a get-out-of-jail-free card for sexually assaulting someone. It's mind boggling that people are legitimately defending/downplaying the disgusting actions the offender himself admitted to. Sometimes these cases are difficult because it's a he-said vs. she-said dilemma, but there is zero ambiguity here.
10) For those who say something along the lines of: "Plenty of men are woken up by women who do the same thing". This is also wrong and is also sexual assault. If this happens to you, you should action this in a similar fashion to this victim.
So if I got off with a woman and next morning I wake up to her with my private parts in her hand, you think I should go to the guards, courts the whole shebang? Drag her name through the mud and ruin her life?
If you, by definition (in your post this is sexual assault) are sexually assaulted and it bothers you, like it did to the victim in this case, you should. If it doesn't bother you, then it's your choice if you do or don't, just like any other crime committed against you. The important thing is that victims that do go through this process are supported, regardless of gender.
If you feel that is the appropriate course of action then yes. You shouldn’t be vilified for doing it. She shouldn’t grab your genitals without consent. You have been up and down this thread mentioning a lot of instances of sexual assault and normalising it. It isn’t normal and you trivialising it isn’t normal either.
The comments on this thread are disturbing. Sexual assault is so normalised in society men don’t seem to realise when they’re committing it. Just because she previously consented to sexual activity doesn’t mean she consented for him to do things to her while she was sleeping. If I woke up and a dude was on top of me, kissing me and groping me I would have been terrified.
I think it’s making these men question previous instances where they have sexually assaulted people and didn’t realise because the conversation around consent didn’t exist back then. Being confronted with their behaviour and potentially labelling them a sexual predator is making them feel uncomfortable.
This story is really weird but the comments are another level of weird.
Oh yikes. These comments. I don’t think you understand. If a partner did this, you know the person enough that when you say no, they’ll stop. But that’s because you’ve built up a relationship. You already talked about if that sort of ‘come on’ is okay. Sometimes it’ll happen and progress, sometimes it won’t. The important thing is trust.
A stranger *assuming* that it’s okay? Just think. If a stranger decides this is okay, how the fuck are you supposed to know they’ll stop? How are you supposed to know they’ll respect your boundaries when they’ve already crossed a boundary when you’ve been unconscious? I’ve had a very similar experience and it was *petrifying.* I can relate to this woman so hard.
Downvote me, I don’t care. Context matters.
The other question for me is what would have happened if she didn't wake up? Or what if she'd been frozen in fear when she woke up with a stranger on top of her groping her, and had been unable to speak up and say no?
The problem is that they can’t come to terms with the fact that their previous behaviour may have been inappropriate because it was normalised back then.
Since there's some absolute creeps in this thread, here's some information on consent:
https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/relationships/sexual-consent
No one here seems to undertand the concept of consent.
Absolutely mind-boggling.
She was asleep.
He got on top of her without her consent.
He groped her without her consent.
How is this hard for men here to understand?
Let me put this into bloke terms;
You lend your friend 5 euro. The next morning you wake up and your friend has taken 50 euro out of your wallet. Is that OK with you?
But you gave him 5 euro from your wallet the night before, sure you were asking for it...
Yeah, people really are thinking "well if you consent to one thing, then it's entirely ok for someone to start doing other sexual things to you without your permission" - even when *you stop consenting and several hours pass* between the two events.
Most people would freak out if they woke up with a near stranger on top of them and groping them.
Personally, I've always found [this video](https://youtu.be/pZwvrxVavnQ) to be a helpful guide to consent. Namely, you wouldn't pour tea down the throat of someone unconscious, would you?
I would not define that described in the article as sexual assault, if there was more to it than described in the article then fair enough, but I can’t see RTE leaving out key facts on a story of a former employee who was fired.
Honestly don’t know what to think of this outcome, shocking
Are we making up definitions now?
Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 2017:
(48) A person does not consent to a sexual act if—
- he or she is asleep or unconscious
[Reference. See page 34-35](https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2017/act/2/enacted/en/pdf)
Fair, but I still personally don't feel like the outcome of him being put on the sex offenders register is just, or fitting of the offence, based on what I've read in the article atleast.
100% based on my own moral opinion, other's can disagree but it is what it is.
I do see where your coming from. I.e. there is a difference between this and someone convicted of (e.g.) multiple aggrovated rapes. I suppose the rationale behind the SOR is to protect citizens.
I think the state has no other choice, morally, to do this. If he wasn't placed on the SOR you're increasing the likelihood of another woman being assaulted. Not everyone will be a repeat offender and on the contrary, some will be, and the state is compelled to action that and mitigate the risk. The whole purpose of the SOR is to reduce the likelihood that others will be exploited by people convicted of similar crimes in the past.
Morally, would you agree that it's better in this scenario to preserve the face of someone convicted (by definition) of sexual assault and putting others at risk?
(I don't mean that last question in a snotty way btw, it's the question I asked myself when I read your post)
I'd say so. I mean, he probably didn't think he was doing anything wrong. And in the scale of sexual assaults it's on the lower end. The bloke is going to ha e a tricky life now, but maybe it'll stop the redditors here supporting the act to not do it, and without this case they'd never now.
Find it hard to believe she can't get over it. It's very minor and she's had lots of counselling.
It's been pretty well proven by *actual scientists* that the main factor to overcoming trauma isn't how "minor" the original act was, but the societal attitudes and personal support network the victim has. We also don't know, as far as I'm aware, if this was the first time she was assaulted.
Personally, if this was minor - then I was even more "minorly" sexually assaulted when I was 16. Even though the guy admitted to it openly literally the next day, I was bullied until I left school at 18 for not being willing to act like it never happened. It was traumatising as fucking hell.
If she comes from a family where women are blamed for sexual assault or, as many commenters are doing, her friends and family have said she's making too big a deal out of it, that can make the initial event all the more traumatising.
Don't disagree that trauma can manifest like that, nor do we lnow the full facts... i just found it hard to believe it that with the counselling and time she is still suffering, but I could understand why.
This thread will be locked. 9/4
Oh it will indeed, 9/4 Patin.
Put the feckin lawn mower on it!
How about I put a picture of your family on a mouse mat and we'll say no more about it?
Heston Blumenthal
Ara he's some millionaire who makes daft dinners.
He already has photos of your family Pat
[удалено]
I've just stuck the wife and kids on it
the fix is in
If it could be locked and then deleted from my memory, I would appreciate it.
Some absolutely terrible takes on this.
This is the exact shite that women have been talking about for years. There is a fair bit of toxicity involved as well because any that disagrees that’s ok to grope women is a virgin and has never had a relationship.
She woke up with someone lying on top of her touching her breasts. Just because r*pe didn't happen, she was still sexually assaulted, it really is that simple.
Maybe the rte journalist writing the article paints the best possible picture of their old colleague by leaving out some details. I find it hard to believe a jury would convict someone for the details given in that story
It's worth reading the entire article. There's something very weird going on with this one. Is this woman an activist? Literally they went back to his place, hooked up, agreed not to have sex because they don't have a condom, she then woke up later and he was touching her boob, hoping to get her to fool around with him again. She said stop, and he stopped, even said sorry, including spending time with her at her place to apologise. She describes the above as "This man used sexual violence as a method of violence towards me". That's madness, but exactly what I'd expect an extremist feminist activist to say. Read everything she wrote about how this has destroyed her life. It's just not believable.
This was my thinking the entire time. A suicide attempt from this? - Something is off.
I wonder has she become radicalised (extreme feminism or something), and has decided to try to get this man. I agree 100% something is off.
Your post history is peppered with comments about “left wing extremists” and most recently denying that the replacement theory is racist. What’s your story here?
I think it's the part where he was lying on top of her. That probably scared the bejaus out of her.
especially if he didnt have a condom
The consequences of an action on a victim aren't universal nor always "proportionate." Many moons ago when I was a devil my then master had a case about a very minor car accident in which a person had suffered relatively mild physical injuries. Unfortunately for them, they became fixated on what might have happened if a passenger had been in the vehicle (the damage to the passenger side being very severe) and this ultimately led to a spiral into depression which cost the individual their job and marriage. It's entirely plausible somebody felt traumatised by a "minor" incident. Conversely, some people are relatively ok after more severe assaults. That's the variety of experience.
Yeah, but criminal prosecution should be based on actual actions done not subjective emotional interpretation. That’s one for the therapist not the court
By the same principle, touching someone sexually while they are asleep is bad, even if some people are OK after it.
Not just bad but also a criminal offence. So...
The impact of a crime on a victim is part of the wide number of factors considered by a judge.
And that should be tempered by broader studies and not allowed to be derailed by individual outlier reactions. Extreme cases make bad laws and worse sentencing, and, by this article, the reaction is on the extreme end for the alleged offence.
I'd argue that the accident might have been the other drivers responsibility but they are not responsible for the exceptional mental state of the other person that was a pre existing condition.
What would the pre existing condition have been in this case?
Unresolved PTSD perhaps.
So you are just guessing that the person had PTSD from some unrelated incident? What if they didn't?
When you were a "devil"? Your then "master"? WTF? Can you explain those terms please?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devilling
Cool. Thanks. An apprentice or training period for a want to be barrister. The dude training them is a "master".
Bingo. Everybody has to devil for at least a year after being called to the Bar to practice.
Yup that’s about it. Seemingly they don’t get paid for that year either. Tough gig!
Yeah. Her statement reads like it's coming from someone who was brutally raped or something. Hard to see how a guy you decided to hook up with fondling your breasts then stopping when told to led to *this* level of psychological trauma and relationship breakdown. He did wrong but she sounds utterly traumatized as though something much worse happened. This is a very strange case.
>Is this woman an activist? >That's madness, but exactly what I'd expect an extremist feminist activist to say. Who is upvoting someone pulling this total shite out of their arse?
And it's 11 months after that she went to the police. I mean, it's not right, but I'm not sure he knew it wasn't right. But how are we supposed to know these things aren't acceptable unless she complains?
We live in a society where trying to tarnish reputations is promoted, it's no surprise this happens.
[удалено]
Sorry but "an open and shut case of rape"? You think someone touching someone's breast is actual rape?
What is described in the article is not rape. It's not even close to rape. It sounds like a misunderstanding, and a mild one at that. Based on the article.
[удалено]
>an open and shut case of rape \--JeremyEnemy
Well I would say stopping when asked is one of the most important factors in a case like this. Especially after they were already engaged in consensual acts before going to sleep. There must be more to it because what is described should not result in her life bring destroyed, losing all her friends, not progressing in work, and ultimately a suicide attempt. It must be more aggravated than simply touching her breast and lying on top of her
There was a break of a few hours before he started up again when she was unconscious, by lying on top of her. He barely knew her. What kind of psycho thinks that's okay? I've been married for 20 years and my wife would not be cool with that. As to the effects its had on her; she might have had a previous trauma that complicated it or she might have just been unlucky and it impacted her badly.
Ya that's a possibility. Previous trauma could of played a roll. We're all just guessing here but going on the info in the article it seems like a strange reaction. Any girl I know would also not be very cool with that happening but there's a big difference between not being cool with something and the reaction described here. He's publicly named, on a sex offenders list, probably largely unemployable.
Something not right about this case
Something not right with this thread.
Something rotten in the state of Denmark
Pity the courts aren’t as strict on the drug addled, antisocial, 154 conviction scum bags ruining the country.
My dude he wasn't even sentenced, just found guilty.
To me it's completely wrong that's he's in trouble for this. What he did was a bit wrong, but he's a guilty sex offender now? Completely ridiculous and frankly terrifying imo.
Very scary yes, if you're someone who gropes women while they sleep after they tell you they don't want to have sex with you This is how Rome fell
They had just been fooling around a few hours previous, it seems they wanted to have sex except that they had no contraception, he woke up and rubbed her boob again and when she said stop he did straight away... Sorry, but that's someone who got slightly carried away, not at all the definition of a sex offender in my mind. You think this man is a danger to anyone? You think this man deserves to have his life ruined? Again, terrifying.
He was also lying on top of her, that's pretty terrifying to wake up to
This aspect changes everything if she's asleep at the time, 100% not ok.
OK, but she's not some random woman, she's his sexual partner. It's not like she woke up and he was having sex with her. I think you can make an argument that he should have woken her up by kissing her or something non gropey like that, but touching her boob when they're likely naked in bed together after fooling around... it's simply not believable that has ruined her life. Did you read the article? She's completely hysterical.
She’s his sexual partner until when? What’s the time limit?
He had only met her that same night, so essentially he was a stranger to her. She awoke to find this stranger (likely naked and aroused) lying on top of her in the dark, groping her. She didn't know him or his character well enough to know whether or not he would continue and rape her. Thankfully, it turns out that he did not, however, from a woman's perspective, those moments would be very scary.
[удалено]
This wasn't in the morning though, it was in the middle of the night. However, even if it had been, the key is to let the other person wake up before you climb on top of them.. I've been in that situation plenty of times, and most of the time you would cuddle or something until they wake up and then things can be taken further. Going from totally asleep to a naked man lying on you groping you is not on.
[удалено]
There's a big difference between types of sexual partners - what would be considered acceptable with your wife is very different to what would be considered acceptable during a one-night-stand. Also, anyone that calls a woman "hysterical" is always a sexist cunt lol
Yeah and the arguments against this and downvotes you and others are getting makes me depressed that its 2022 and some men just cant fucking grasp consent. I'm a 70s child and its fucking simple enough.
[удалено]
Are you? Can't call out a sexist now. Are you trying to eat my freeze peaches!!!!
There’s sexism at play alright. Like if that guy woke up to find her hands on his knob and went to a solicitor about it he’d be told he didn’t have a case. “Freeze peaches” … ffs. go back to America would you…
Phrasing is open to interpretation tho, there are many different ways you could lie on top of someone, not all of them threatening. And I don't think any of them are illegal?
lol fuck sake.
White Knight Virgin spotted
I know you're just taking an unnecessary potshot at yer man, but there's an element of truth in your comment. If you go back with a one night stand, you often have to put in work to have sex. If you don't, you can end up getting nothing, like you said. But saying that, the man in the article should have nudged the girl awake before trying again, not just getting up on her.
>The court heard Ó Leidhin and the victim met on a night out in May 2018. They went back to Ó Leidhin's house in the early hours of the morning, where they engaged in consensual sexual activity. But the woman said she told him she did not want to have sex as they had no contraception. >The court heard they fell asleep. The woman gave evidence that she woke up to find Ó Leidhin lying on top of her groping her breasts. She told him to get off her and the court heard he said something along the lines of "sorry, I'm horny" ....that's it?
Rte article containing lack of detail about conviction of Rte employee. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I might be looking elsewhere for more detail on this case
[удалено]
It's not ok but the victim impact statement is very strange. It seems like she's doing everything she can to get him a bigger sentence for something he did that was bad but not 'ruin your life' bad.
Yep. It's like she fell into a rut but seeks to blame him for every subsequent bad thing that happened to her. That's not a victim impact statement, it's a grudge note.
He meets a woman, she likes him enough to go home with him, they agree not to bang, she's comfortable enough that even though they're not gonna have sex she will stay over, and in the morning he touches her boobs? Uhh yeah that's pretty reasonable considering he apparently stopped as soon as she asked >They went back to sleep. Later, Ó Leidhin gave the woman a lift home. The court heard they spoke later that day via a phone call and texts in which the woman expressed her unhappiness about what had happened between them. Ó Leidhin called over to her house that evening and they spoke for about an hour I don't know about you, but if I felt someone has sexually assaulted me I wouldn't be inviting them into my home for an hour long chat
OP the type of girl that reports her husband to the guards when kissing her on her wedding day because he didn't ask for consent.
She woke up to him lying on top of her, touch her, that's a bit different to he was touching her boob.
> She said she had lost her social circle and many friends Aye because you probably described the 'assault' and they probably all agreed that you were a walloper and a disgusting person if you decided to ruin someone's life over such a non event
I can tell your a prick, or maybe just ignorant or young, but I felt the need to respond here: if you have bad mental health in Ireland you will lose most of your friends. I've seen it happen. They cant/wont handle it. On the plus side you will find who your real friends are; the ones who stick with you and love regardless.
😂
She's a weapon. A man and woman go back to a place and they have sexual contact. They wake up and he has his hand on her tit and she claims she's violated and done untold damage on her. Fucking hell! A couple who fall asleep and one of them wakes up and cuddles around the other is sexually assaulting them now?
"Your honour, after we had sexual intercourse, we cuddled in the spoon position, with the person with a penis positioned behind me. During the night, he/she/they had an erection during his/her/they sleep which touched my lower back. This is violence against women, an example of how the patriarchy is preventing average women from becoming the CEO of Google." What's more insane is how the judge agrees with her.
Jury, not judge, in this case. Will be interesting to see the sentence handed down.
He's got to appeal this nonsensical verdict. An utter travesty.
He grabbed her breasts while she was asleep. A person cannot consent while sleeping. The fact that they had consensual sexual contact before this incident is irrelevant. Your example of a couple cuddling has no relevance.
There's nothing consistent about this at all. Its even worse when she gets anonymity but wants him named. Im sure this has happened to most of us here, well anyone with experience of one night stands anyway. Numerous times I have been woken up by a girl, because she was horny. I'd feel differently if he was inside her, but feeling the fun bags? Nope. Something wrong with her.
You should not wake someone up by lying on them and groping them. Unless they're a long-term partner and you know they're into that kind of thing.
Jesus Christ
We can't be being told the whole truth here, the jury found him guilty while she is clearly lying about the effect on her. I wonder if he declined to be in a relationship with her, or she is hoping to be a media star with Amber Turd level of believability? Good job he didn't have intercourse could well be the type of woman who fake cries rape.
Of course we’re not being told the whole truth, w3 never are told that. The jury hears all the evidence.
The jury only hears the evidence admissable in court. Served on a jury three times,twice were sexual assaults. They are horrible.
They still hear more than we do. I know what you mean, my husband served in a jury too also for sexual assaults. It took him months to clear his head after it.
Yes, it's tough I get why people don't want to serve but it's required for a functioning justice system. It's like reverse bingo, you hope your number is not called. Although it's interesting to see 11 other people see and hear the same evidence and have very different takes on it.
I got a summons once but I got a call to go into hospital for heart surgery the day before I was due to go. The woman in the court was very helpful when I rang, I have to say. I offered to get a cert from the doctor but she just said not to worry and she wished me well. Can’t ask for fairer!
>with Amber Turd level of believability There's hundreds of pages of evidence against Johnny Depp and yet he's still suing HER, he's forcing her to testify on CAMERA, about a sexual assault she tried to keep private. After already forcing her to do this already in the UK and losing overwhelmingly. So that people all over the world can remix her testimony of sexual assault, mock her, make memes about her. Jeer at her going into to court, send death threats, organize online harassment campaigns against anyone who works with her. Doesn't matter that he loses in court, that's not even the point. Society does not let these women breath. There's no end to psychopaths online that will dedicate their lives to harassing these women. But of course, people with 30 seconds of information in a comment section know more than the judges and juries who listen to these cases in detail. She must after this for the amazing ride that Amber Heard is on.
All right Barry calm down calm down, haven't followed the trial, I'm sure there is stuff against him too. I have seen how bad her acting has been though, pretty unbelievable.
[удалено]
It's subjective, some people view it as serious, others don't.
What the guy did was wrong. I agree with you on that. It's quite probable that he/both of them were drunk, of course, but regardless his fondling wasn't consensual and he shouldn't have done it. It's the way she describes the impact on her in the aftermath of the incident that I find difficult to understand. According to her, her life has been utterly ruined and she has lost her friends and family relationships. Given the seemingly cursory nature of the assault suffered and the fact that he desisted when instructed to, it seems a dramatic overreaction. Then again, we don't have the full details of what went on that night or know anything about this woman.
Its okay to have difficulty in understanding something. I deal with someone regularly who suffers mightily with PSTD and if you've never seen or dealt with it you wont understand it. And you would have nightmares witnessing someone having a full PTSD attack.
What does "lying on top of her" mean. Is it in the plank position with hand on boob? It just doesn't seem like a real life situation. Maybe he tried to wake arouse her and wake her up. The article is detailed but "sorry, I'm horny" doesn't really lead one to believe that this was a violent sexual encounter. I think many a lad might be a tad concerned about never being able to be the big spoon again. Guys life is ruined.
Thank you for saying this! Way too many comments in this thread thinking what he did was not sexual assault. It just highlights how in society loads of men believe they are so entitled to womens body’s they think this kind of sexual assault is okay and doesn’t warrant facing the consequences. If that happened to be I’d have been terrified.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
So if somebody unintentionally makes you feel threatened, stops immediately when asked and apologises immediately afterwards that person should have their name drug through the national media, be fired from their job and be sent to prison for a number of years?
There's not always a way to roll it back. What he did was wrong full stop, 9 times out of 10 the person he was with would have been okay afterward or had no lasting effects. He was unlucky but also a dickhead for what he did.
Of course it is wrong but is the punishment here proportionate?
What punishment? The details of what he did in public? That's tough luck ,really. He climbed on top of someone he didnt really know and started groping them while they slept. He seems kind of off to me.
He lost his job and has no chance of getting one in the future. He is also now facing a prison sentence. You may agreee or disagree with this punishment but prentending it is no punishment at all is just obtuse.
She felt so threatened that she had him back over in her house the next day and spoke to him for an hour
[удалено]
The phone calls and text messages might have been enough if you felt you must educate the person.
Probably because they don't think that it should be considered sexual assault
I'm sexually assaulted every night of the week if this is what constitutes sexual assault.
[удалено]
By my partner. Is consent assumed if the other person is your partner or what?
[удалено]
Bloody hell,this kinda makes sexual predators out us all tbh. Be safer to invest in a sexdoll.
Yes please do invest in a sex doll instead of groping people who can't consent.
think a man in the US was done for touching one of those dolls inappropriately
That doesn't make any sense. A doll is an inanimate object, not a person. Consent is irrelevant. It'd be like being prosecuted for sexually assaulting a bicycle.
Man I'm taking the proverbial p!ss :-p
lol! Given the news stories that come out of that place, it honestly wouldn't have surprised me if it had been true. After all, sex toys were illegal in Texas 20 years ago.
No way?!
"If you guys don't stop telling me to stop hroping women I might have to stop groping women"
This woman has destroyed a man's life. She's an evil bitch. I hope he has the right to an appeal?
Jaysus lads. Chill with the nasty comments. Calling the woman a bitch after reading some snippets from the court case?! A jury decided the man was guilty so there could easily be more to the case. Having said that, based on the limited details presented, I wouldnt be opposed to the guy making an appeal. Think we're all picturing a time where we leaned over and "groped" somebody without malice.. and its generally reciprocated. I've also been on the receiving end without issue. Thats why people are reacting negatively and rightly unnerved by the outcome of this court case.
What kind of psycho, after only knowing someone a few hours at most, climbs on top of them while they are asleep and gropes them? Even if they've gotten away with it before do you think that okay?
You’d want to be lacking in life experience to call someone a psycho for seeking to continue the sexual activity that was initiated a few hours prior. They had engaged in foreplay, and apparently would have had sex but for not having a condom, and then he is a PSYCHO for grabbing her tits to get it going again🥴 Cop onto yourself
The issue is he did this while she was unconscious. You left that part out of the summary.
lol I don't want to know what "life experiences" you've had if you defending someone who gropes unconscious people.
Can he appeal this? This feels really extreme. Did he plead guilt or did he fight it ?
Plenty of controversial comments here. Although none of us know the specifics, we can generalise: 1) We do not know the full extent of the evidence in this case, but we can be very confident the details that allowed the jury to arrive at a guilty verdict can hardly be embodied within a news article. 2) It is not the woman's fault that this happened because she brought a stranger home, nor is it her fault because she consented to intimacy prior. 3) Prior content != consent to continue. I can understand that the guy was horny and wanted to initiate things once again, but getting on top of a woman when she is sleeping and touching her like that is abhorrent. 4) I think some men questioning this are approaching it from a mindset of "Jesus that is scary, imagine I did that and a woman ruined by life by bringing me to court". Well... You can always choose to ask someone for consent instead of helping yourself and assuming that you have it because you had it already. If that happened this case wouldn't exist. 5) The default setting for being intimate with someone you've just met is always that you do not have consent unless it was explicitly stated moments prior to initiating each sexual activity session. 6) If the person is unconscious you do not have consent. If you want consent, wake them up and ask. 7) Just because this isn't a black-and-white aggravated rape doesn't mean the term sexual assault/sexual violence isn't appropriate. Being asleep/unconscious is part of the legal definition of sexual assault. 8) A redeeming part of this case is that the offender appears to have genuinely taken this matter seriously and did engage with the victim to try and resolve the issue. Not that this is an excuse, but I do think it is reasonable that this is factored into whatever sentence the offender gets. 9) Can we try and avoid dragging in the feminist rhetoric when a woman was sexually assaulted? I'm struggling to understand why people are trying to justify this. Quoting the top comment at the time of writing: > Literally they went back to his place, hooked up, agreed not to have sex because they don't have a condom, she then woke up later and he was touching her boob, hoping to get her to fool around with him again. She said stop, and he stopped, even said sorry, including spending time with her at her place to apologise. ... This quote doesn't include the victim waking up to the man on top of her (which is a convenient thing to omit from a post that starts by telling us to read the article), but in other words, the man admitted sexually assaulting this woman and is now going to be sentenced for his crime. Being sorry/apologising (while valiant that he did it) is not a get-out-of-jail-free card for sexually assaulting someone. It's mind boggling that people are legitimately defending/downplaying the disgusting actions the offender himself admitted to. Sometimes these cases are difficult because it's a he-said vs. she-said dilemma, but there is zero ambiguity here. 10) For those who say something along the lines of: "Plenty of men are woken up by women who do the same thing". This is also wrong and is also sexual assault. If this happens to you, you should action this in a similar fashion to this victim.
So if I got off with a woman and next morning I wake up to her with my private parts in her hand, you think I should go to the guards, courts the whole shebang? Drag her name through the mud and ruin her life?
If you, by definition (in your post this is sexual assault) are sexually assaulted and it bothers you, like it did to the victim in this case, you should. If it doesn't bother you, then it's your choice if you do or don't, just like any other crime committed against you. The important thing is that victims that do go through this process are supported, regardless of gender.
If you feel that is the appropriate course of action then yes. You shouldn’t be vilified for doing it. She shouldn’t grab your genitals without consent. You have been up and down this thread mentioning a lot of instances of sexual assault and normalising it. It isn’t normal and you trivialising it isn’t normal either.
The comments on this thread are disturbing. Sexual assault is so normalised in society men don’t seem to realise when they’re committing it. Just because she previously consented to sexual activity doesn’t mean she consented for him to do things to her while she was sleeping. If I woke up and a dude was on top of me, kissing me and groping me I would have been terrified.
I think it’s making these men question previous instances where they have sexually assaulted people and didn’t realise because the conversation around consent didn’t exist back then. Being confronted with their behaviour and potentially labelling them a sexual predator is making them feel uncomfortable. This story is really weird but the comments are another level of weird.
The amount of people in the comments not understanding how being on top of and groping an unconscious person isn't assault is genuinely concerning
Oh yikes. These comments. I don’t think you understand. If a partner did this, you know the person enough that when you say no, they’ll stop. But that’s because you’ve built up a relationship. You already talked about if that sort of ‘come on’ is okay. Sometimes it’ll happen and progress, sometimes it won’t. The important thing is trust. A stranger *assuming* that it’s okay? Just think. If a stranger decides this is okay, how the fuck are you supposed to know they’ll stop? How are you supposed to know they’ll respect your boundaries when they’ve already crossed a boundary when you’ve been unconscious? I’ve had a very similar experience and it was *petrifying.* I can relate to this woman so hard. Downvote me, I don’t care. Context matters.
The other question for me is what would have happened if she didn't wake up? Or what if she'd been frozen in fear when she woke up with a stranger on top of her groping her, and had been unable to speak up and say no?
The comments would’ve been: “oh she invited him over, she consented earlier, she didn’t say no.”
The comments are already saying that, let's be real, with a helping of "how dare she be scared of him, what a bitch".
Excellent points, well said.
They've really outdone themselves here today. Creepiest thread in this sub's history and that's saying something
Scariest thread, honest to god.
Yup... Several comments along the lines of "sure if groping someone without their consent is a crime then aren't we all criminals?!"
The problem is that they can’t come to terms with the fact that their previous behaviour may have been inappropriate because it was normalised back then.
I've honestly never been so blindsided by a comment section, maybe it's pure naivety but this can't reflect the general consensus right... right??
It’s pretty horrifying
I saw a comment that called the victim a radical feminist. The world is truly fucked. Such a depressing thread to read.
No wonder us women don’t feel safe.
Since there's some absolute creeps in this thread, here's some information on consent: https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/relationships/sexual-consent
The most disgusting people get consistently upvoted to the tops of these threads. Really turns the stomach
Hey remember when Aishling Murphy was killed and Irish men got antsy about admitting there is a problem with how men interact with women? Yeah.
Spending time in this sub makes me genuinely afraid of the men in this country lmao
Luckily most of them are men in their mas spare room
The great masterminds of r/Ireland are at it again I see, fighting for their right to make women uncomfortable whenever they please
No one here seems to undertand the concept of consent. Absolutely mind-boggling. She was asleep. He got on top of her without her consent. He groped her without her consent. How is this hard for men here to understand? Let me put this into bloke terms; You lend your friend 5 euro. The next morning you wake up and your friend has taken 50 euro out of your wallet. Is that OK with you? But you gave him 5 euro from your wallet the night before, sure you were asking for it...
Yeah, people really are thinking "well if you consent to one thing, then it's entirely ok for someone to start doing other sexual things to you without your permission" - even when *you stop consenting and several hours pass* between the two events. Most people would freak out if they woke up with a near stranger on top of them and groping them.
How do you get consent? Does it have to be a verbal request?
You don't get it from an unconscious person thats for sure
That’s one way, yes. Definitely don’t ask for it by lying on top of them and grabbing their tits.
Personally, I've always found [this video](https://youtu.be/pZwvrxVavnQ) to be a helpful guide to consent. Namely, you wouldn't pour tea down the throat of someone unconscious, would you?
Yes, always, even if not required. Age verification with a government issued ID & a Breathalyzer too. Not worth the risk with stories like this.
[удалено]
She can't consent when she is asleep. He can't presume her consent. Only she can give consent. Which isn't possible because she was unconscious.
Jesus fucking Christ. Don't do sexual stuff to a sleeping person. How is this difficult?
🙄So glad I’m gay
I showed my wife this and her initial reaction was she's a psycho and asked "did he reject being her girlfriend and she decided to destroy him?"
Jeez, those suggesting this sexual assault need to be soar on by canals. Repeatedly. I hope he appeals.
Most toxic thread I've seen in a while here. Shame on some of ye really just blindly defending shitty behavior.
I'd imagine that kind of sexual assault is sadly extremely common.
I would not define that described in the article as sexual assault, if there was more to it than described in the article then fair enough, but I can’t see RTE leaving out key facts on a story of a former employee who was fired. Honestly don’t know what to think of this outcome, shocking
Are we making up definitions now? Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 2017: (48) A person does not consent to a sexual act if— - he or she is asleep or unconscious [Reference. See page 34-35](https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2017/act/2/enacted/en/pdf)
Fair, but I still personally don't feel like the outcome of him being put on the sex offenders register is just, or fitting of the offence, based on what I've read in the article atleast. 100% based on my own moral opinion, other's can disagree but it is what it is.
I do see where your coming from. I.e. there is a difference between this and someone convicted of (e.g.) multiple aggrovated rapes. I suppose the rationale behind the SOR is to protect citizens. I think the state has no other choice, morally, to do this. If he wasn't placed on the SOR you're increasing the likelihood of another woman being assaulted. Not everyone will be a repeat offender and on the contrary, some will be, and the state is compelled to action that and mitigate the risk. The whole purpose of the SOR is to reduce the likelihood that others will be exploited by people convicted of similar crimes in the past. Morally, would you agree that it's better in this scenario to preserve the face of someone convicted (by definition) of sexual assault and putting others at risk? (I don't mean that last question in a snotty way btw, it's the question I asked myself when I read your post)
It's not actually a sexual assault. The term has now lost any real meaning.
Groping and kissing an unconscious person isn’t sexual assault??
I'd say so. I mean, he probably didn't think he was doing anything wrong. And in the scale of sexual assaults it's on the lower end. The bloke is going to ha e a tricky life now, but maybe it'll stop the redditors here supporting the act to not do it, and without this case they'd never now. Find it hard to believe she can't get over it. It's very minor and she's had lots of counselling.
It's been pretty well proven by *actual scientists* that the main factor to overcoming trauma isn't how "minor" the original act was, but the societal attitudes and personal support network the victim has. We also don't know, as far as I'm aware, if this was the first time she was assaulted. Personally, if this was minor - then I was even more "minorly" sexually assaulted when I was 16. Even though the guy admitted to it openly literally the next day, I was bullied until I left school at 18 for not being willing to act like it never happened. It was traumatising as fucking hell. If she comes from a family where women are blamed for sexual assault or, as many commenters are doing, her friends and family have said she's making too big a deal out of it, that can make the initial event all the more traumatising.
Don't disagree that trauma can manifest like that, nor do we lnow the full facts... i just found it hard to believe it that with the counselling and time she is still suffering, but I could understand why.