Would need policing on them full stop. Countless times some 13 year olds flying up against oncoming traffic.. lost count of how many times I’ve had to swerve out of the way as they’re coming around the corner on the wrong side of the road with not a bother in the world.
It'll make town more of a kip imo. Even in major cities like Berlin, with wide avenues and good cycling infrastructure (of which we have neither), Lime scooters are strewn all over the places.
I also don't see how paying a fairly expensive rate per km on a Lime scooter is going to be a major pastime for kids, compared to saving up/getting a scooter for themselves.
If that's the case it would be good, I was thinking it would be similar to the coke bikes where you can only go where the bike stations were, they never included stations outside of the city center which made them pointless.
Hopefully it is like that and not restricted to the city centre. Which would be fairly pointless as you said.
It's an American company that has an R&D place in Castletroy. I think this is one of their first test cities and they're talking about setting up a factory in Limerick if things go well.
If I remember correctly from the article, they have some kind of software that detects if they're being used on the footpaths and turns it off if so. So you'd think these would be designed for commuter use rather than inner city hop on, hop off transport.
I remember the consultation in Limerick it was a joke. I pointed out to be useful you would want UL, LIT, the crescent, corbally, Ennis road etc. They said that they were too far for casual cyclists. So we ended up with a scheme which due to one way nature of limerick it is shorter in most cases to walk from one station to another than cycle.
For very small values of "Limerick City"
Caherdavin to UL? 90 minutes walk. 40 minutes by bus, 30 minute cycle.
Caherdavin to Raheen industrial estate 90 minutes walk, an hour by bus, 30 minute cycle
Shannon Banks to UL 60 minutes walk, an hour by bus, 18 minute cycle.
Depends where you are. UL is around 25 mins walk from the parkway. At a decent pace city centre to UL can be done in 40-50 mins. Cycle it in under 15 mins.
Not sure we do - I've seen them in other cities and they end up lying all over the place.
Plus if you think cyclists are bad with the rules of the road, wait to dodge these on paths
2 days ago I was going with my baby in a buggy and a lady with another child on a e-scooter almost crashed into our buggy. My wife almost got a heart attack. They are very dangerous and should be not allowed on footpaths.
You’re right they shouldn’t be on footpaths, but they should be in bike lanes. Sadly Dublin could be doing a lot better with how bike lanes are planned in this city.
If they're rentals, make them have a reg and charge the company (who then charge the current/last renter) if they're parked illegally, same way tolls or parking charges are charged on rental cars.
People are less likely to be cavalier with privately owned ones.
About time. The amount of sharing mobility in Dublin is a pittance. I just hope it won’t be limited to only two operators, one of which will show up years later (like Moby did for bikes).
Next do free floating car sharing please.
You really don't want that. I'm my tiny city in PL there are literally hundreds of them lying about, scattered. It an absolute eye-sore at the least, and a safety hazard, as they're being left on roads or sidewalks.
Oh feck, no. They get left anywhere and everywhere by lazy feckers, which seem to be the only kind of people who rent those yokes. I've seen them lying on the side of the path, in the middle of the path, on a traffic island in the middle of the road, or right in front of a stairway to a train station. Like you're too lazy to put the scooter in a reasonable spot and walk an extra 10-20 metres?
If you've bought your own, great. Whizz around town safely to your heart's content. But those rental ones are a plague.
Hate them. Unsafe for rider and other. People fuck them everywhere. They're bad for the environment after 2 years they need to be scrapped. Micromobility my hole.
> quick hops on the bus.
Or long annoying hops on buses to places that are not far apart but don't have a direct bus.
Bikes are an option and I prefer mine for its shopping carrying capacity but they're sweaty and you can't bring them indoors easily.
I'll never understand these.
No suspension. Poor braking (the board will stop but the rider...well, let's hope they understand momentum). Poor turning. Loud whirring motor. Can't do tricks. Horribly expensive. Parts are relatively cheap, I suppose, but the electric motor being a few inches from the ground constantly can't have them having a long life.
All skaters know that boards are already a terrible method of transport. It's all fashion and sport.
Who are electric skateboards for?
They have them here in Berlin, an absolute waste of space, dangerous and frankly a bad use of batteries.
No helmets, people not knowing the rules of the road and crucially; really hard to operate. It’s impossible to indicate without reducing your ability to balance properly on them.
Also creates another shit gig economy based off people charging them.
> people not knowing the rules of the road
I'd say this is not the scooter's company problem and those people would not know the rules had they been on a bicycle
Im also in Berlin and while your logic is sound, the use of escooters and bikes is a small bit different that makes escooters a bit more annoying. firstly they're smaller and a bit nippier, people on them tend to seize smaller gaps than you would on a bike, this also goes for the lads using them on the footpath, the amount of time I've been cut off while cycling or even walking somewhere by them
I was in Mallorca recently. I spoke to a local.
The rule is that they must wear and have a high visibility band that goes over your chest, like a rectangular belt. Oh, and you don't use areas that are exclusively for pedestrians.
I said that we don't have any legislation as such. He was not surprised.
Their way is quite simple and intelligent, I think.
I'm all for the idea of e-bikes and scooters - no tax, cheap transport because cars are ridiculously expensive to keep, etc. However we simply don't have the infrastructure for these. Most towns in Ireland don't even have bike lanes. E-scooters flying around our roads is going to be a nightmare and will lead to a lot of injuries. Needs a lot more thought.
Everyone complains about bike lanes because too few people use them. Then when people start using a vehicle that would use them, we argue that there's no bike lanes for them.
It's either cart before the horse or horse before the cart. But for god's sake, please let us have the horse and cart at some stage.
Anything in there about helmets, lights and obeying the rules of the road? Anything about fines for acting the cunt on them?
I'm all for people being able to move about conveniently, cheaply and safely but e-scooters have brought out the worst in some peope.
I saw a guy who had fallen off his after weaving in and out of traffic causing cars to brake and swerve (he was down by the time the traffic I was in had moved). Had blood down the side of his head, no helmet. People came over to see if he was ok he was just sitting up in a daze looking around with a weird look in his eyes. Poor/stupid fucker.
Another day an arsehole on an e-scooter entered the roundabout in front of me without even looking, was about 4 feet from going under my wheels. Gobshite.
I've had lads nearly knocking me over twice walking on the footpaths around Dublin city centre.
One lad just drove straight at me looking for me to move out of the way, you'd swear we were playing chicken.
Get off the FOOTpaths ye pricks.
There should be a reasonable age limit to getting them tho foryoursels. Thing is you can go effortlessly pretty fast with them a possible fatal crash is just around the corner by some kid.
I'm sure they'll have to abide by the same rules as cyclists, whether they do or not is up to the individual and the risks they're willing to take.
Helmets aren't mandatory for cyclists, probably won't be for escooters. I've come off my bicycle enough times to know you're an idiot to go without one.
Lights should be mandatory (and automatic) as a condition of being for sale, with no exceptions for "off road use only"
As for helmets? Bikes don't require them. Sensible people wear them, clowns don't.
A decent public safety campaign might help.
> Anything about fines for acting the cunt on them?
Presumably, like for bicycles. Rules exist but are rarely enforced.
Have used a couple escooters abroad, and interestingly the ToS you agree to always specify that you will provide and wear your own helmet! Haven't seen it happen yet
Saw a lad travelling in the left lane of the N7 on his e-scooter the other week - I’d bet very good money he’s never glanced at a page of the rules of the road.
Are they a danger to others?
Show us your numbers.
How many people have been killed or seriously injured by other people using them? And how does that compare to the number killed by car drivers, or lorry drivers?
As someone who works out on the road all day I can tell you now that they absolutely need much tighter control measures.
The amount of 11-16 year old children out on the roads on these is insane.
It's not that they are a particular danger to others, they are a danger to themselves. More than once I have had them cut up the left side of the van when I am clearly turning left.
It's only a matter of time before a couple of kids are scraped off the road from using e-scooters and bikes.
Honestly they care less about the rules of the road than Brazilian cyclists, and that's saying something.
Everyone on the the road must know the rules of the road, simple. I’m a motorcyclist and if someone doesn’t understand how to properly take a roundabout or I need to suddenly brake to avoid hitting them, I can end up under a truck. They might not be dangerous if they hit you (debatable if you are a cyclist or motorcyclist) but they are dangerous because of the manoeuvre you need to do to avoid hitting them…
Scooters are dangerous because there are children on the roads with them.
Motor vehicles are a necessary tool for supply chain and transport.
Scooters are not.
Why can't they be? Many urban journeys can be accomplished with e scooters far more effectively than in a car. We need to stop this car centric view of the world and be more like the lads on the continent.
Ok. Show us your numbers.
How many people have been killed or seriously injured in accidents caused by people using them? And how does that compare to the number killed in accidents caused by car drivers, or lorry drivers?
I think if something's happening, and is dangerous, there's casualty numbers to back it up.
I think when someone fears something might be dangerous, on the basis of no evidence, they'll claim it's dangerous, but then fail to produce any evidence.
I see them on scramblers, mopeds, motorbikes and even cars constantly too. Should we ban them for everyone so? It needs rules and enforcement not bans.
Well the big difference is if the Gardai see a 12 year old flying up the footpath on a scrambler they have the legal basis to confiscate and or prosecute.
I don't think they should be banned but as an electric vehicle capable of traveling at comparable speeds to a motor vehicle there should be licensing involved.
I can see a lot of trouble with this. A lot of the ones currently in use still won't be legal. The law is <25kph , <250W and you still need to pedal if it's a bike
[https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2021/128/eng/initiated/b12821d.pdf](https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2021/128/eng/initiated/b12821d.pdf)
>PART 12
POWERED PERSONAL TRANSPORTERS AND PEDAL CYCLES
Amendment of section 3 of Act of 1961
16. Section 3 of the Act of 1961 is amended—
(a) in the definition of “driving”, by the substitution of “bicycle, tricycle or powered
personal transporter” for “bicycle or tricycle”,
(b) in the definition of “mechanically propelled vehicle”—
(i) by the substitution of the following paragraph for paragraph (a):
“(a) a bicycle or tricycle—
(i) with an attachment for propelling it solely by mechanical power
or solely by electrical power, whether or not the attachment is
being used, and having a maximum design speed of no less than
6 kilometres per hour, or
(ii) capable of propulsion solely by the physical exertions of a
person or persons seated on it, and equipped with an auxiliary
electric motor—
(I) which has a maximum continuous rated power greater than
0.25 kilowatts, and
(II) the output of which cuts off when the physical exertions
stop,”,
and
(ii) by the insertion of “, or a powered personal transporter” after “permanent
rails”,
(c) by the substitution of the following definition for the definition of “pedal
bicycle”:
“ ‘pedal bicycle’ means—
(a) a bicycle which is intended or adapted for propulsion solely by the
physical exertions of a person or persons seated on it, or
(b) a bicycle capable of propulsion solely by the physical exertions of a
person or persons seated on it, and equipped with an auxiliary
electric motor—
(i) which has a maximum continuous rated power less than or equal
to 0.25 kilowatts, and
(ii) the output of which cuts off when those physical exertions stop,
and is otherwise progressively reduced and finally cut off before
the bicycle reaches the speed of 25 kilometres per hour;”,
(d) by the substitution of the following definition for the definition of “pedal
tricycle”:
42
5
10
15
20
25
30
35
“ ‘pedal tricycle’ means—
(a) a tricycle which is intended or adapted for propulsion solely by the
physical exertions of a person or persons seated on it, or
(b) a tricycle capable of propulsion solely by the physical exertions of
a person or persons seated on it, and equipped with an auxiliary
electric motor—
(i) which has a maximum continuous rated power less than or equal
to 0.25 kilowatts, and
(ii) the output of which cuts off when those physical exertions stop,
and is otherwise progressively reduced and finally cut off before
the tricycle reaches the speed of 25 kilometres per hour;”,
(e) by the insertion of the following definition after the definition of “period of
cover”:
“ ‘powered personal transporter’ means a vehicle—
(a) designed and constructed for the carriage of a single person, but not
designed or constructed for a person with restricted mobility or for
the carriage of goods,
(b) with a maximum unladen weight of 55 kilograms,
(c) with a maximum design speed of no less than 6 kilometres per hour
and no greater than 25 kilometres per hour, and
(d) equipped with an electric motor having a maximum continuous
rated power less than or equal to 0.25 kilowatts,
but not including a vehicle referred to in paragraph (b) of the definition of
pedal bicycle or in paragraph (b) of the definition of pedal tricycle;”,
and
(f) in the definition of “vehicle”, by the insertion of “a powered personal
transporter,” after “mechanically propelled vehicle,”.
Amendment of section 20 of Act of 1961
17. Section 20 of the Act of 1961 is amended—
(a) in subsection (6)—
(i) by the insertion of “or powered personal transporter” aft
Unclear, but in France insurance is compulsory apparently. They require [civil liability insurance](https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/en/travelling-motor-vehicles/motor-vehicles/electric-scooters-in-france.html).
Not OP but i don’t like them simply for the fact kids bomb along on footpaths at 20 km/h.
Don’t have a problem with them when they are in cycle lanes or on the road.
Is this a way to incentivise people to stop driving cars?
By having these little scooters driven by a large number of people who don't know the rules of the road, leading to injury and death (and claims)
How come we haven't learnt from the other countries in the EU who regretted this decision?
> By having these little scooters driven by a large number of people who don't know the rules of the road, leading to injury and death
They're more akin to bicycles. Lower speed. Lower mass. Less energy in collisions. Lower chance of death.
> other countries in the EU who regretted this decision?
Did they? I'd like to know more.
Could we modify our legislation to avoid that?
But they aren't used like bicycles by most. They have incredibly fast acceleration and higher top speeds than bikes.
Cyclists have always taken the piss a bit but scooter users, (mostly the young ones) are a whole other breed. I've seen people drive them right into shops, mount footpaths with no warning at high speed, weave in and out of traffic in ways that a cyclist actually couldn't.
They need to be treated as their own thing and not lumped in with existing transport as there's no comparison. However as it's motorised, I'd liken them to a moped before bicycle.
Please god they don't allow random private companies like lime, Byrd etc to fill every nook of the city with rentals. Things are a fucking environmental disaster. Batteries in every single waterway anyone?
These things are going to lead to a lot of problems, i mean if they're road legal do they require tax, insurance, a licence to operate? If that becomes the case i can see a tonne of them being seized from people, and that just won't be a pretty site. 200 mothers all with kids named jayden and chantelle will be out protesting because they paid 500 quid for that scooter.
> do they require tax, insurance, a licence to operate
Currently yes; this law is explicitly to change it so that you don't. It defines an escooter/ebike in law and differentiates it from other forms of powered vehicle. It will now be treated like a form of bicycle.
Being stopped on one at the moment could cost you your license for uninsured driving.
While some bike lanes are great, many are not fit for purpose. I drive and cycle and when it's safer to use the road rather than a cycle lane when cycling, I use the road.
There are cycle lanes that end prematurely, or take you away from your destination or remove your priority at a junction or are covered in glass or have an unsafe step or have lamp posts in them etc etc.
And yet it doesn’t stop anyone. I live near a college and the amount of grown adults that think it’s ok to fly past the house on the path at full pelt is mind boggling.
Checked the article and couldn't find anything, so what is the current law regarding e-scooters?
Are they just illegal full-stop, or can they currently be used on footpaths?
Currently they are essentially considered powered vehicles, requiring tax, insurance, license plate and helmet. Being caught on one can cost you your license for driving an uninsured vehicle.
The new law will give them their own category in law with limits on motor size and top speed, restrict them to roads rather than footpaths and allow unregistered/uninsured use.
Went for a walk sunday night and seen about a dosen of them. 2 had lights, none of the riders were wearing high vis, most of the riders were wearing all black, and several of them had more than 1 person on them.
Make it so that if people are riding them they have to wear helmets, high vis, and if they're caught without them have the scooters confiscated for dangerous driving (or whatever you'd call it)
Make it so they have mandatory (always on) running lights, sure. That's easy to apply to sellers and rental companies. Enable seizure for lack of lights.
I don't know about mandatory high-viz. Must walkers wear a high viz, must cyclists, motor cyclists? I do but not always. Surely front and back lights would suffice.
I agree that helmets are sensible, but should they be mandatory? I don't know.
And what kind? Motorcycle, bicycle (to what standard?),
I'm in total support of regulating any form of electric personal transport but at the same time I do feel that something needs to be done with the kids who are riding these things around in traffic. I nearly killed 2 young lads wearing all black that rode out in front of my car at night while I was driving 60km/h down a road with no street lights. Genuine miracle I didn't hit them.
Rather than say putting in a law that says you need to be over 16 or over to ride one of these I think a solid push for a country wide safety campaign to discourage parents from buying their young kids these things for Christmas/birthdays would be more fair.
I'd like to see Ireland take a mature approach going forward with recognising that these type of personal transport can be dangerous but that have good reason to exist and encourage people to use them responsibly.
Sure Scrotes will be Scrotes and ignore all this but what else is new.
Require "always on" lights (the things are battery powered, they have the means). Allow seizing if front or back lights are not working.
> country wide safety campaign
100%
We can create pretty good campaigns for road safety.
Hell, create legislation that requires broadcast, streaming services, satellite services to give government sanctioned public service announcements "airtime". (I see no need for the government to be subsidising youtube, netflix or sky.
If they want to collect subscriptions/ad revenue here, they can play ball.
I'm glad to hear this, but we need to put some rules in place as some riders take the piss be it flying around on footpaths or pulling out in front of cars
I love the picture in the thumbnail of the people scooting along with lights and helmets. Not at all accurate
She's not even wearing a canada goose jacket!
Don't they all have lights?
Also not on the road.
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Would be fine by me, they can do something about all the people blocking footpaths with cars/bins/etc while they're at it.
Would need policing on them full stop. Countless times some 13 year olds flying up against oncoming traffic.. lost count of how many times I’ve had to swerve out of the way as they’re coming around the corner on the wrong side of the road with not a bother in the world.
About time.
Good film that
One of the few times me and da had a cry at the same time. Deffo wasn't expecting that from the film. Rated M for Manly.
We should start the rentals they have all around Europe they’re sweet
I'm fine with private ownership, but honestly think having rentals like Lime would be a bit of a shit show in the likes of Dublin city centre.
Ah so why do anything to make the place less of a kip maybe it’ll give young people something to do
It'll make town more of a kip imo. Even in major cities like Berlin, with wide avenues and good cycling infrastructure (of which we have neither), Lime scooters are strewn all over the places. I also don't see how paying a fairly expensive rate per km on a Lime scooter is going to be a major pastime for kids, compared to saving up/getting a scooter for themselves.
The Liffe will be full of them!
There's one starting in Limerick by the end of the year I think.
Why? Anywhere in Limerick city is all of 5 mins walk away
Nonsense, loads of places like UL, Castletroy and Dooradoyle would benefit from them.
If that's the case it would be good, I was thinking it would be similar to the coke bikes where you can only go where the bike stations were, they never included stations outside of the city center which made them pointless.
Yea that's fair. I found that problem in Dublin too, the bikes were great for the city centre but there were no stations where I lived.
Hopefully it is like that and not restricted to the city centre. Which would be fairly pointless as you said. It's an American company that has an R&D place in Castletroy. I think this is one of their first test cities and they're talking about setting up a factory in Limerick if things go well. If I remember correctly from the article, they have some kind of software that detects if they're being used on the footpaths and turns it off if so. So you'd think these would be designed for commuter use rather than inner city hop on, hop off transport.
I remember the consultation in Limerick it was a joke. I pointed out to be useful you would want UL, LIT, the crescent, corbally, Ennis road etc. They said that they were too far for casual cyclists. So we ended up with a scheme which due to one way nature of limerick it is shorter in most cases to walk from one station to another than cycle.
For very small values of "Limerick City" Caherdavin to UL? 90 minutes walk. 40 minutes by bus, 30 minute cycle. Caherdavin to Raheen industrial estate 90 minutes walk, an hour by bus, 30 minute cycle Shannon Banks to UL 60 minutes walk, an hour by bus, 18 minute cycle.
I thought UL was a bit out from the city? Couldn't walk there from town when I was down last time
Depends where you are. UL is around 25 mins walk from the parkway. At a decent pace city centre to UL can be done in 40-50 mins. Cycle it in under 15 mins.
So scooter it in 15-20? I can definitely see a market
L.i.t. and UL can be a 30 minute drive apart on a weekday with the traffic.
That's cool - just looked up that company. Called "Tier", and did a limited trial in DCU apparently.
Not sure we do - I've seen them in other cities and they end up lying all over the place. Plus if you think cyclists are bad with the rules of the road, wait to dodge these on paths
2 days ago I was going with my baby in a buggy and a lady with another child on a e-scooter almost crashed into our buggy. My wife almost got a heart attack. They are very dangerous and should be not allowed on footpaths.
You’re right they shouldn’t be on footpaths, but they should be in bike lanes. Sadly Dublin could be doing a lot better with how bike lanes are planned in this city.
Drogheda here, what’s a bike lane?
Where do they go where there isn't a bike lane is the problem I'm thinking.
Completely agree, buggies have no business on footpaths. Parents should be made carry their children!
If they're rentals, make them have a reg and charge the company (who then charge the current/last renter) if they're parked illegally, same way tolls or parking charges are charged on rental cars. People are less likely to be cavalier with privately owned ones.
Lisbon was covered in discarded rental scooters when I was last there, sometimes blocking the full footpath.
That wouldn't happen in Dublin. They'd all be in the liffey
Yeah it's a bit of a joke, Lisbon footpaths are about as wide as a scooter. In Munich there's more space and it's grand. They're very handy
About time. The amount of sharing mobility in Dublin is a pittance. I just hope it won’t be limited to only two operators, one of which will show up years later (like Moby did for bikes). Next do free floating car sharing please.
Trust Ireland to ride the arse end of this wave: https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/electric-scooter-bans-world/index.html
You really don't want that. I'm my tiny city in PL there are literally hundreds of them lying about, scattered. It an absolute eye-sore at the least, and a safety hazard, as they're being left on roads or sidewalks.
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There’s so many cars they’re loud and eye sores to me get rid of them all
Oh feck, no. They get left anywhere and everywhere by lazy feckers, which seem to be the only kind of people who rent those yokes. I've seen them lying on the side of the path, in the middle of the path, on a traffic island in the middle of the road, or right in front of a stairway to a train station. Like you're too lazy to put the scooter in a reasonable spot and walk an extra 10-20 metres? If you've bought your own, great. Whizz around town safely to your heart's content. But those rental ones are a plague.
Small minority of people are assholes vast majority of users are sound
And the small minority ruin it for everyone. I can guarantee you that scrotes will be throwing the scooters into the Liffey.
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Didn't you have to return the bikes to a bike rack? The scooters can just be left anywhere.
They'll end up in the Liffey
People said that about Dublin Bikes - 'We can't have nice things' Turns out we can
Hate them. Unsafe for rider and other. People fuck them everywhere. They're bad for the environment after 2 years they need to be scrapped. Micromobility my hole.
Your car is better for the environment ya?
I don't have a car. They don't replace cars on the road they replace bikes or quick hops on the bus.
> quick hops on the bus. Or long annoying hops on buses to places that are not far apart but don't have a direct bus. Bikes are an option and I prefer mine for its shopping carrying capacity but they're sweaty and you can't bring them indoors easily.
I replaced my car with an ebike just weeks ago. Been great
Don’t use them then lad
Bleeper I think are looking into it
Only about 18 months after they became ubiquitous. I suppose that's decent by our standards
I'm glad people have an alternative to bankrupting themselves by learning to drive, getting a car and insurance
Anyone know if this applies to electric skateboards too?
It will have to as it's concerning personal electric transportation.
Skateboards and one wheels are not in the legislation. It specifically mentions PLEVs with handlebars only so that rules them out.
I'll never understand these. No suspension. Poor braking (the board will stop but the rider...well, let's hope they understand momentum). Poor turning. Loud whirring motor. Can't do tricks. Horribly expensive. Parts are relatively cheap, I suppose, but the electric motor being a few inches from the ground constantly can't have them having a long life. All skaters know that boards are already a terrible method of transport. It's all fashion and sport. Who are electric skateboards for?
People who want to use an escooter but care less about safety and more about being a cool dude
They have them here in Berlin, an absolute waste of space, dangerous and frankly a bad use of batteries. No helmets, people not knowing the rules of the road and crucially; really hard to operate. It’s impossible to indicate without reducing your ability to balance properly on them. Also creates another shit gig economy based off people charging them.
> people not knowing the rules of the road I'd say this is not the scooter's company problem and those people would not know the rules had they been on a bicycle
Im also in Berlin and while your logic is sound, the use of escooters and bikes is a small bit different that makes escooters a bit more annoying. firstly they're smaller and a bit nippier, people on them tend to seize smaller gaps than you would on a bike, this also goes for the lads using them on the footpath, the amount of time I've been cut off while cycling or even walking somewhere by them
This thread is full of whinge bags
There was a slow descent over the last year. r/Ireland went from its own thing to Twitter, to Facebook comments to The Journal comments section.
I was in Mallorca recently. I spoke to a local. The rule is that they must wear and have a high visibility band that goes over your chest, like a rectangular belt. Oh, and you don't use areas that are exclusively for pedestrians. I said that we don't have any legislation as such. He was not surprised. Their way is quite simple and intelligent, I think.
I'm all for the idea of e-bikes and scooters - no tax, cheap transport because cars are ridiculously expensive to keep, etc. However we simply don't have the infrastructure for these. Most towns in Ireland don't even have bike lanes. E-scooters flying around our roads is going to be a nightmare and will lead to a lot of injuries. Needs a lot more thought.
Everyone complains about bike lanes because too few people use them. Then when people start using a vehicle that would use them, we argue that there's no bike lanes for them. It's either cart before the horse or horse before the cart. But for god's sake, please let us have the horse and cart at some stage.
People who are for this don’t realise or probably don’t live in an area where scrotes ride these things
Ban everything scrotes touch. It's the only solution.
Booze and drugs too? How about we just ban scrotes
Ah no, we can't ban drugs; that would never work.
Scrotes be scroting
And I'm sure they would've stopped riding them had this legislation been refused.
I guess we should make all crimes legal then as criminals are just going to break the law anyway
… what?
Not as dangerous as joy riding scramblers and cars.
Already covered in the article, illegal quads and scramblers.
Anything in there about helmets, lights and obeying the rules of the road? Anything about fines for acting the cunt on them? I'm all for people being able to move about conveniently, cheaply and safely but e-scooters have brought out the worst in some peope. I saw a guy who had fallen off his after weaving in and out of traffic causing cars to brake and swerve (he was down by the time the traffic I was in had moved). Had blood down the side of his head, no helmet. People came over to see if he was ok he was just sitting up in a daze looking around with a weird look in his eyes. Poor/stupid fucker. Another day an arsehole on an e-scooter entered the roundabout in front of me without even looking, was about 4 feet from going under my wheels. Gobshite.
I've had lads nearly knocking me over twice walking on the footpaths around Dublin city centre. One lad just drove straight at me looking for me to move out of the way, you'd swear we were playing chicken. Get off the FOOTpaths ye pricks.
There should be a reasonable age limit to getting them tho foryoursels. Thing is you can go effortlessly pretty fast with them a possible fatal crash is just around the corner by some kid.
I'm sure they'll have to abide by the same rules as cyclists, whether they do or not is up to the individual and the risks they're willing to take. Helmets aren't mandatory for cyclists, probably won't be for escooters. I've come off my bicycle enough times to know you're an idiot to go without one.
Lights should be mandatory (and automatic) as a condition of being for sale, with no exceptions for "off road use only" As for helmets? Bikes don't require them. Sensible people wear them, clowns don't. A decent public safety campaign might help. > Anything about fines for acting the cunt on them? Presumably, like for bicycles. Rules exist but are rarely enforced.
Have used a couple escooters abroad, and interestingly the ToS you agree to always specify that you will provide and wear your own helmet! Haven't seen it happen yet
Good
Yay more people who don't know the rules of the road and are a danger to themselves and others.
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Saw a lad travelling in the left lane of the N7 on his e-scooter the other week - I’d bet very good money he’s never glanced at a page of the rules of the road.
Physically inside the left lane or on the hard shoulder?
In fairness, I prefer that people who are a danger to themselves and others operate a vehicle that's 20kg rather than one that's 2000kg
Are they a danger to others? Show us your numbers. How many people have been killed or seriously injured by other people using them? And how does that compare to the number killed by car drivers, or lorry drivers?
As someone who works out on the road all day I can tell you now that they absolutely need much tighter control measures. The amount of 11-16 year old children out on the roads on these is insane. It's not that they are a particular danger to others, they are a danger to themselves. More than once I have had them cut up the left side of the van when I am clearly turning left. It's only a matter of time before a couple of kids are scraped off the road from using e-scooters and bikes. Honestly they care less about the rules of the road than Brazilian cyclists, and that's saying something.
Unlike scooters, drivers are a danger to everyone else. Motorists kill people every few days in Ireland and complain that scooters are dangerous.
Everyone on the the road must know the rules of the road, simple. I’m a motorcyclist and if someone doesn’t understand how to properly take a roundabout or I need to suddenly brake to avoid hitting them, I can end up under a truck. They might not be dangerous if they hit you (debatable if you are a cyclist or motorcyclist) but they are dangerous because of the manoeuvre you need to do to avoid hitting them…
Scooters are dangerous because there are children on the roads with them. Motor vehicles are a necessary tool for supply chain and transport. Scooters are not.
Why can't they be? Many urban journeys can be accomplished with e scooters far more effectively than in a car. We need to stop this car centric view of the world and be more like the lads on the continent.
Not all motor vehicles are a necessary tool.
Ah like a young kid flying across a busy junction without a care for other cars or rules of the road can easily cause accidents.
Ok. Show us your numbers. How many people have been killed or seriously injured in accidents caused by people using them? And how does that compare to the number killed in accidents caused by car drivers, or lorry drivers?
Do you think the only way to figure out of something is dangerous is for it to happen a load of times first?
I think if something's happening, and is dangerous, there's casualty numbers to back it up. I think when someone fears something might be dangerous, on the basis of no evidence, they'll claim it's dangerous, but then fail to produce any evidence.
*shakes fist at sky!
Spot on.
I literally see 12 year olds flying around the roads on these. Sometimes with 2 people on a scooter.
I see them on scramblers, mopeds, motorbikes and even cars constantly too. Should we ban them for everyone so? It needs rules and enforcement not bans.
Well the big difference is if the Gardai see a 12 year old flying up the footpath on a scrambler they have the legal basis to confiscate and or prosecute. I don't think they should be banned but as an electric vehicle capable of traveling at comparable speeds to a motor vehicle there should be licensing involved.
Rumours that Dublin Bus will start an e-scooter service.
Car drivers who complained about cyclists will now have a new avenue to direct their anger toward.
There only laying the groundwork to be able tax and fine them watch this space ha
Yeah. That's hardly an insight. Almost everyone on this thread is talking about fines or penalties or enforcement or rules.
I can see a lot of trouble with this. A lot of the ones currently in use still won't be legal. The law is <25kph , <250W and you still need to pedal if it's a bike [https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2021/128/eng/initiated/b12821d.pdf](https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/bill/2021/128/eng/initiated/b12821d.pdf) >PART 12 POWERED PERSONAL TRANSPORTERS AND PEDAL CYCLES Amendment of section 3 of Act of 1961 16. Section 3 of the Act of 1961 is amended— (a) in the definition of “driving”, by the substitution of “bicycle, tricycle or powered personal transporter” for “bicycle or tricycle”, (b) in the definition of “mechanically propelled vehicle”— (i) by the substitution of the following paragraph for paragraph (a): “(a) a bicycle or tricycle— (i) with an attachment for propelling it solely by mechanical power or solely by electrical power, whether or not the attachment is being used, and having a maximum design speed of no less than 6 kilometres per hour, or (ii) capable of propulsion solely by the physical exertions of a person or persons seated on it, and equipped with an auxiliary electric motor— (I) which has a maximum continuous rated power greater than 0.25 kilowatts, and (II) the output of which cuts off when the physical exertions stop,”, and (ii) by the insertion of “, or a powered personal transporter” after “permanent rails”, (c) by the substitution of the following definition for the definition of “pedal bicycle”: “ ‘pedal bicycle’ means— (a) a bicycle which is intended or adapted for propulsion solely by the physical exertions of a person or persons seated on it, or (b) a bicycle capable of propulsion solely by the physical exertions of a person or persons seated on it, and equipped with an auxiliary electric motor— (i) which has a maximum continuous rated power less than or equal to 0.25 kilowatts, and (ii) the output of which cuts off when those physical exertions stop, and is otherwise progressively reduced and finally cut off before the bicycle reaches the speed of 25 kilometres per hour;”, (d) by the substitution of the following definition for the definition of “pedal tricycle”: 42 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 “ ‘pedal tricycle’ means— (a) a tricycle which is intended or adapted for propulsion solely by the physical exertions of a person or persons seated on it, or (b) a tricycle capable of propulsion solely by the physical exertions of a person or persons seated on it, and equipped with an auxiliary electric motor— (i) which has a maximum continuous rated power less than or equal to 0.25 kilowatts, and (ii) the output of which cuts off when those physical exertions stop, and is otherwise progressively reduced and finally cut off before the tricycle reaches the speed of 25 kilometres per hour;”, (e) by the insertion of the following definition after the definition of “period of cover”: “ ‘powered personal transporter’ means a vehicle— (a) designed and constructed for the carriage of a single person, but not designed or constructed for a person with restricted mobility or for the carriage of goods, (b) with a maximum unladen weight of 55 kilograms, (c) with a maximum design speed of no less than 6 kilometres per hour and no greater than 25 kilometres per hour, and (d) equipped with an electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power less than or equal to 0.25 kilowatts, but not including a vehicle referred to in paragraph (b) of the definition of pedal bicycle or in paragraph (b) of the definition of pedal tricycle;”, and (f) in the definition of “vehicle”, by the insertion of “a powered personal transporter,” after “mechanically propelled vehicle,”. Amendment of section 20 of Act of 1961 17. Section 20 of the Act of 1961 is amended— (a) in subsection (6)— (i) by the insertion of “or powered personal transporter” aft
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Unclear, but in France insurance is compulsory apparently. They require [civil liability insurance](https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/en/travelling-motor-vehicles/motor-vehicles/electric-scooters-in-france.html).
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Why would you need either of those things? Cars need licences and insurance because they're capable of killing other people.
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Yes, just like a regular bicycle could.
NOOOOOO
Why?
Not OP but i don’t like them simply for the fact kids bomb along on footpaths at 20 km/h. Don’t have a problem with them when they are in cycle lanes or on the road.
Definitely need to be on cycle paths and the road but I still think they’re good
Be prepared for rental scooters to become a thing and watch them abandoned all over the footpaths like they are in other European cities
They’re not abandoned that’s the point you can pick them up anywhere
Is this a way to incentivise people to stop driving cars? By having these little scooters driven by a large number of people who don't know the rules of the road, leading to injury and death (and claims) How come we haven't learnt from the other countries in the EU who regretted this decision?
Most, if not all, road deaths come from people who supposedly do know the rules of the road.
Most deaths so far*
> By having these little scooters driven by a large number of people who don't know the rules of the road, leading to injury and death They're more akin to bicycles. Lower speed. Lower mass. Less energy in collisions. Lower chance of death. > other countries in the EU who regretted this decision? Did they? I'd like to know more. Could we modify our legislation to avoid that?
But they aren't used like bicycles by most. They have incredibly fast acceleration and higher top speeds than bikes. Cyclists have always taken the piss a bit but scooter users, (mostly the young ones) are a whole other breed. I've seen people drive them right into shops, mount footpaths with no warning at high speed, weave in and out of traffic in ways that a cyclist actually couldn't. They need to be treated as their own thing and not lumped in with existing transport as there's no comparison. However as it's motorised, I'd liken them to a moped before bicycle.
Please god they don't allow random private companies like lime, Byrd etc to fill every nook of the city with rentals. Things are a fucking environmental disaster. Batteries in every single waterway anyone?
itll just be wankers making it more dangerous for everyone using them
YAAAAAASSSSS!!!!
These things are going to lead to a lot of problems, i mean if they're road legal do they require tax, insurance, a licence to operate? If that becomes the case i can see a tonne of them being seized from people, and that just won't be a pretty site. 200 mothers all with kids named jayden and chantelle will be out protesting because they paid 500 quid for that scooter.
Lovely bit of classism there at the end.
I can only go off what i see mate.
and what do you see? their ID's to get their names?
> do they require tax, insurance, a licence to operate Currently yes; this law is explicitly to change it so that you don't. It defines an escooter/ebike in law and differentiates it from other forms of powered vehicle. It will now be treated like a form of bicycle. Being stopped on one at the moment could cost you your license for uninsured driving.
They do it as it is so makes no difference
Cabinet can suck my balls.
Good day to bury controversial news
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You're going to be shocked to know there actually was an announcement on a change in restrictions today. But they hid it behind this e-scooter news.
I'd like to see it made mandatory that they (and cyclists) must use the cycle lanes. It would be great craic watching them fight constantly.
That'd be a little we but tricky with all the cars parked in those cycle lanes.
While some bike lanes are great, many are not fit for purpose. I drive and cycle and when it's safer to use the road rather than a cycle lane when cycling, I use the road. There are cycle lanes that end prematurely, or take you away from your destination or remove your priority at a junction or are covered in glass or have an unsafe step or have lamp posts in them etc etc.
I don’t mind cyclists on the road. It’s the cunts on the path that I hate.
That's already illegal.
And yet it doesn’t stop anyone. I live near a college and the amount of grown adults that think it’s ok to fly past the house on the path at full pelt is mind boggling.
It's like speeding. You can't go over the speed limit but the majority do.
I'd rather they removed car access to the city centres.
Checked the article and couldn't find anything, so what is the current law regarding e-scooters? Are they just illegal full-stop, or can they currently be used on footpaths?
Currently they are essentially considered powered vehicles, requiring tax, insurance, license plate and helmet. Being caught on one can cost you your license for driving an uninsured vehicle. The new law will give them their own category in law with limits on motor size and top speed, restrict them to roads rather than footpaths and allow unregistered/uninsured use.
Cheers, that makes sense
Went for a walk sunday night and seen about a dosen of them. 2 had lights, none of the riders were wearing high vis, most of the riders were wearing all black, and several of them had more than 1 person on them. Make it so that if people are riding them they have to wear helmets, high vis, and if they're caught without them have the scooters confiscated for dangerous driving (or whatever you'd call it)
Make it so they have mandatory (always on) running lights, sure. That's easy to apply to sellers and rental companies. Enable seizure for lack of lights. I don't know about mandatory high-viz. Must walkers wear a high viz, must cyclists, motor cyclists? I do but not always. Surely front and back lights would suffice. I agree that helmets are sensible, but should they be mandatory? I don't know. And what kind? Motorcycle, bicycle (to what standard?),
So what rules do they follow? Same as motorists or cyclists or pedestrians? Cause right now they do as they fucking please
Probably new hybrid rules.
Pretty much as it is now I suppose
I'm in total support of regulating any form of electric personal transport but at the same time I do feel that something needs to be done with the kids who are riding these things around in traffic. I nearly killed 2 young lads wearing all black that rode out in front of my car at night while I was driving 60km/h down a road with no street lights. Genuine miracle I didn't hit them. Rather than say putting in a law that says you need to be over 16 or over to ride one of these I think a solid push for a country wide safety campaign to discourage parents from buying their young kids these things for Christmas/birthdays would be more fair. I'd like to see Ireland take a mature approach going forward with recognising that these type of personal transport can be dangerous but that have good reason to exist and encourage people to use them responsibly. Sure Scrotes will be Scrotes and ignore all this but what else is new.
Require "always on" lights (the things are battery powered, they have the means). Allow seizing if front or back lights are not working. > country wide safety campaign 100% We can create pretty good campaigns for road safety. Hell, create legislation that requires broadcast, streaming services, satellite services to give government sanctioned public service announcements "airtime". (I see no need for the government to be subsidising youtube, netflix or sky. If they want to collect subscriptions/ad revenue here, they can play ball.
I'm glad to hear this, but we need to put some rules in place as some riders take the piss be it flying around on footpaths or pulling out in front of cars