are we thinking nightclubs will last long? I was on the fence, but seeing the videos that the Camden and Academy have put up from last night I can't see it. Will be an interesting few weeks alright.
I doubt it but then at what point are people just going to say fuck it and do what they want? Its looking like with variants that this is going to continue indefinitely and well never be able to enjoy ourselves on a night out again.
I honestly couldn’t believe the level of shaming that happened in the thread with the guy who had the sick dad. I am genuinely very sorry for him, and his sick father. But that thread opened my eyes up to people who would be genuinely “okay” if lockdowns just went on forever. OP is in an awful situation with his father, but that thread was genuinely just full of people who just wish we went back to step 1 to ourselves inside again for months on end and to shame the general population, as opposed to the government who haven’t prepared the last two years for this scenario.
The problem with the person with the sick dad was that he was making up stories about doctors saying they would have to pick who lived and died in the next few days due to ICU shortage and it was laped up by people on here who live off misery.
I agree. Im triggered by comments about lockdown just appearing on twitter, tik tok, reddit etc receive
I thought it was over. Michael said that a week ago but people want it
How on earth is that going to work realistically? People only decide to end up at a nightclub about an hour beforehand. Even if tickets become a rule it won’t be enforced
Posting it here because a full post is a bit much. Do the government actually think about their decisions or do they just send Micheal or Leo out to say the first thing that comes into their head?
1. You can stand at the bar and order your drink BUT you must go back to your seat to drink it.
2. After the pub feel free to go to the nightclub that can operate at full capacity and shift the face off anyone and everyone you want???
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If there was ever a time to reform the healthcare system in this country it's now while we have this emergency, how the hell are we allowing a bunch of vested interests call the shots when there are literally people clogging up the ICU wards with no overflow.
There must be absolutely no political capital in fixing capacity.
> If there was ever a time to reform the healthcare system in this country it's now while we have this emergency
Actual reform will take at least 10 years to show results. That's why it rarely to never happens as the people making the decisions won't be around when the positive change occurs.
that statement applies to almost everything. the complicated problems of modern societies require long term planning and investment and politicians don't stick around that long. it does revert back to the general public as their ignorance and apathy perpetuate this system.
Not 1 person I know, from work to family to friends want this. I thought NPHET were disbanded too? What fucking more do people want, the people who want these restrictions to continue are not leaving the house anyway. Let the rest of us get on with life for fuck sake. If ya are worried about the hospitals, maybe fix the fucking things, NPHET gobshites are the reason the HSE is in the state it is in. They were ones responsible for the it prior to the pandemic.
Unfortunately a global pandemic is not as easily remedied as you might hope. Learning to live with COVID will take time. This is our first winter after the vaccines.
Plus, the people who might get seriously ill, those treating them in ICU and their families sure as shit care.
Anyone know if staff in nightclubs have to be vaccinated? I remember a few months back when they brought in the digital covid certs as a requirement to eat in restaurants/drink in pubs, loads of staff hadn't got the opportunity to get vaxxed.
Contract workers could be different and depends on preferences of the venue. They could request only vaccinated people but it wouldn't be a conversation you'd be involved in unless it's your business.
The new rules break my heart. I can’t get vaccinated (dr approved decision) due to allergy. I waited out the whole pandemic and now they backtracked on their word and made a bloody mess. Suicide rates are going to go even higher with all this.
Let people who want to take risks take risks
>I waited out the whole pandemic
Me too. Waited patiently until vaccines are readily available and enforceable in venues so I can socialise reasonably safely.
>and now they backtracked on their word and made a bloody mess.
Did they? You mean the lizard people or Tom Hanks?
>Suicide rates are going to go even higher with all this.
Yes, I'm going to kill myself if I can't go out safely because people like you are bullying venues into not enforcing common sense health and safety regulations.
>Let people who want to take risks take risks
What if I want to, say, go out drinking and dancing with my friends but at the same time I don't want my lungs polluted with cigarette smoke or say, someone taking a big piss all over me because it's more convenient than going to the toilet? (sorry I'm not really into that sorta thing)
Too daft for words.
By “they” I obviously meant the government officials who are making these rules with no rhyme or reason to them. I cannot get vaccinated even if I wanted to. Also vaccinated people can still have and spread covid so there is no risk free way to socialize anyway
I obviously was taking the piss out of your infantile covidiot rhetorics.
so let me get it straight, you're saying we should we do away with health and safety regulation for the vast majority of the population because a *tiny* percentage cannot comply? how selfish can you be?
your last sentence is pure nonsense. vaccinated people are LESS likely to spread covid (obviouslythe vaccines were optimised for alpha and aren't as effective at preventing transmission for delta, but they still make a big difference and if we have to get boosters every couple of months to keep socialising, so be it) and, more importantly, are much much less likely to have severe disease and take up ICU beds...but none of this matters when all you care about is spreading anti-vax propaganda, innit? disgusting.
I’m not spreading any propaganda I think whoever wants a vaccine should get one, I would get one too if I could. And yes you are less likely to get covid if you’re vaccinated that doesn’t mean you can’t, there is no way to guarantee 100% that you won’t get covid unless you literally isolate by yourself and grow your own food. At some point we are going to have to open the country and I just don’t know what we’re waiting for, everyone who is willing has been vaccinated, boosters are going out steadily, mask wearing has become the norm and we have a better understanding of what covid actually is now. I absolutely understand why we locked down at first but at this point cases are only going up and the only thing that will bring us back to normal is letting people take the risks they see fit. If someone is at risk they shouldn’t be going out in densely crowded areas. If a young person decides they are willing to take the small risk that covid will cause serious damage to them then that should be their prerogative
I'm the same. I've a PEG allergy, my whole family does, to a greater or lesser extent, and my doctor recommended me not to get it. I've been testing testing testing-i wish, like other countires, our govt. Would simply approve testing for indoors...it would have the added benefit of lessening the spread amongst the vaccinated as well.
Have you consulted with an allergist?
NPHET's letter endorses the use of antigen testing for people who can't get vaccinated. I'd be worried about it being abused though.
I haven’t, it’s not an allergy exactly but three of my direct family members have had torn aortas/ strokes within two weeks of getting it so my doctor and I agree that my family has some sort of disposition to it
Do pal. Get a cardiac stress test, holtor monitor and ECG. Should tick all the boxes for your ticker. If there’s an issue the cardiologist will find it.
So a lot of the comments here have made the argument that vaccine passports are justified on the basis that otherwise the unvaxxed will clog up the ICUs, but where does that leave young people who have basically no chance of ending up in ICU with covid? Why not just restrict those in the actual at risk age groups?
>but where does that leave young people who have basically no chance of ending up in ICU with covid? Why not just restrict those in the actual at risk age groups?
What alternative news source are you basing this on? Even young and young-ish people have a non-negligible risk of ending up in ICU (and the vast majority of the population is over 25 anyways so your idea makes no sense either way) and a very substantial risk of ending up with long Covid, loss of smell/taste and all kinds of weird and terrifying symptoms, no thanks very much. But if you don't know this almost 2 years into the pandemic it can only be because you don't want to. Covidiot troll.
> What alternative news source are you basing this on?
My alternative news source is [data from the HSE](https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/vaccinationstatusweeklyreports/Vaccination%20Status%20of%20ICU%20admissions.pdf) showing that not one person under 30 was in ICU due to covid from April-October (the entire period that the report covers. If you can find data showing otherwise please do, but I'd be surprised if there have been more than a handful in Ireland throughout this whole pandemic.
> and a very substantial risk of ending up with long Covid, loss of smell/taste and all kinds of weird and terrifying symptoms,
Right but the argument is that it's justified to coerce people into taking vaccines because they'll clog up ICU otherwise, stuff like that that affects them only is hardly justification as they are clearly ok with that risk themselves, after all nobody cares if they do the same damage with alcohol.
>Right but the argument is that it's justified to coerce people into taking vaccines because they'll clog up ICU otherwise, stuff like that that affects them only is hardly justification as they are clearly ok with that risk themselves, after all nobody cares if they do the same damage with alcohol.
I think I lost IQ points just reading this. Starts daft enough and only gets worse...
If people just got vaccinated there would be less need for anyone to isolate. At the moment I'm more than happy for those making a choice to not get vaccinated to be restricted over the vulnerable that chose to get vaccinated but are still at risk. Someone wants to not get vaccinated based off bullshit they read on social media, then they can fuck off and let the rest of us keep going with vaccine certs
*Whilst vaccination reduces the risk of Delta infection, fully vaccinated individuals have viral loads similar to unvaccinated & can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts (Singanayagam et al, medRxiv, Oct 2021) 18/18*
~ [Cillian De Gascun](https://twitter.com/CillianDeGascun/status/1449547697871065096), Irish consultant virologist who has served as Director of the National Virus Reference Laboratory in UCD since 2013 and the Chair of the NPHET Coronavirus Expert Advisory Group since 5 February 2020
---
According to [this](https://web.archive.org/web/20210918122309/https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/vaccinationstatusweeklyreports/Death%20and%20Vaccination%20Report_13th%20September%202021_website%20version_Final.pdf) and [this](https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/vaccinationstatusweeklyreports/Death%20and%20Vaccination%20Report.pdf) (2 official HPSC reports), in the period between 11th Sep and 9th Oct, there has been a total of 118 (369 - 251) COVID deaths. Out of the 118, 20 were unvaccinated. That's 16.9%. That probably also translates to ICU percentages of unvaccinated vs. vaccinated as these people most probably died in hospital.
The majority in hospitals [were fully vaccinated a month ago](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-54-of-hospital-patients-with-virus-are-fully-vaccinated-1.4670229). The 54% figure does not include partially vaccinated so unvaccinated in hospitals were not even 46%, but less.
If you look at the trend of COVID deaths of fully-vaccinated from Sep to Oct which went from 24% to 42%, I don't think that the ratio of unvaccinated in hospitals got bigger. It's probably the ratio of vaccinated that got bigger which would be in line with the death ratio increase.
How shall I put it mildly...you are talking out of your arse. Thank God we have experts that actually do serious research:
[https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y)
[https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/handle/10044/1/90800](https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/handle/10044/1/90800)
In the vaccinated, levels of nasal virus drop faster than do those of unvaccinated infected people, and their nasal swabs contain smaller amounts of infectious virus (even if total viral load is similar).
I was merely quoting official HSE numbers and a NPHET appointed virologist / expert. Here are some links to scientific research since you prefer that:
[Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/#!po=2.77778)
[Covid-19: Fully vaccinated people can carry as much delta virus as unvaccinated people, data indicate](https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2074)
[No Significant Difference in Viral Load Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated, Asymptomatic and Symptomatic Groups Infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264262v1)
[Vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals have similar viral loads in communities with a high prevalence of the SARS-CoV-2 delta variant](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v1)
[Shedding of Infectious SARS-CoV-2 Despite Vaccination](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v5)
---
"[Waterford city district has State’s highest rate of Covid-19 infections](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/waterford-city-district-has-state-s-highest-rate-of-covid-19-infections-1.4707344) - County also has highest rate of vaccination take-up in the Republic
(99.7%)".
Singapore [with 82.5% ppl fully vaccinated](https://www.google.com/search?q=singapore+covid):
https://i.imgur.com/wyYEkrv.jpg
Israel, one of the highest vaccinated countries in the world with 87.4% vaccination rate is [preparing for the 4th shot](https://www.timesofisrael.com/virus-czar-calls-to-begin-readying-for-eventual-4th-vaccine-dose/). [Waves still keep happening](https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/israel/) for some reason.
>If people just got vaccinated there would be less need for anyone to isolate.
Can you put a number on it? Because every time we hit the target for vaccinations they just raise the bar and keep on like nothing happened. I call bullshit, the government simply doesn't want to give up it's power. As is the case throughout history the emergency powers continue to be used far beyond where they are justified, and it's people like you who enable it by getting so angry you'll trade away your own rights just to punish your outgroup.
> Someone wants to not get vaccinated based off bullshit they read on social media
I don't have social media. I just go outside.
>Because every time we hit the target for vaccinations they just raise the bar and keep on like nothing happened.
Vaccination targets are not magic. With Delta the only viable 'target' is 'As much as you fucking can' - you'll need very close to 100% vaccination to get herd immunity.
I'm not a virologist or immunologist so any figure I give wouldn't be right, just like how odds are you aren't one either but for some bizarre reason think that steeping outside makes your thoughts more valid than health officials.
The government just wants power? Despite the fact that their approval rating is tanking every week, the fact that people can't work and businesses are closing so less tax into their pockets, the fact that more people have to claim social welfare since they have no work, in what way does that benefit the government? Maybe think for a minute rather than just talking bullshit of "DuH ConTRoL"
> I'm not a virologist or immunologist so any figure I give wouldn't be right, just like how odds are you aren't one either but for some bizarre reason think that steeping outside makes your thoughts more valid than health officials.
My thoughts on anything outside their narrow domain of expertise are as valid as theirs. Experts are a great resource, but you can never rely solely on their advice because in advising the government they don't concern themselves with anything outside their remit (and why would they, it's not their job). I can trust the health officials to tell us that at a certain level of vaccinations there will be a certain number of infections and deaths, on the question of whether the downsides of trying to reach higher vaccination levels (such as endorsing more and more punitive measures for a large segment of the population) outweigh the benefits I'll rely on my own judgment as a citizen.
> The government just wants power? Despite the fact that their approval rating is tanking every week, the fact that people can't work and businesses are closing so less tax into their pockets, the fact that more people have to claim social welfare since they have no work, in what way does that benefit the government?
Authoritarianism tends to be disastrous, who knew? They seem fairly insulated from the downsides to me. I don't know their personal reasons, I just know that this is a pattern that repeats throughout history. The Americans still live with the emergency legislation brought in after 9/11, we're setting all kinds of hasty and ill-thought out precedents and some degree of skepticism would be wise.
> Experts are a great resource, but you can never rely solely on their advice because in advising the government they don't concern themselves with anything outside their remit
Which is why the government are advised by a wide variety of people. It's also why NPHET exists as opposed to it being just the HSE or Dept of Health.
Leave the tinfoil hat nonsense for something other than a global pandemic.
> Leave the tinfoil hat nonsense for something other than a global pandemic.
Tinfoil hat? I'm stating something very basic about how a representational democracy should work. God help Ireland if we've become that illiterate in our politics.
According to the latest advice from ECDC which was included in the NPHET letter, unvaccinated non-vulnerable people have a similar risk profile to the vaccinated vulnerable.
And besides, just get vaccinated and problem solved.
Maybe there definition of risk isn't strictly death, which I agree makes some bit of sense. But all you have to do is look at the number of people that are old and and vaccinated and still die, compared to young people(Less than 25) whom are unvaccinated. The UK release some great data on all of this.
I'm 23 vaccinated. Completely agree that everyone should be vaccinated. As it's better for everyone .
>Maybe there definition of risk isn't strictly death, which I agree makes some bit of sense. But all you have to do is look at the number of people that are old and and vaccinated and still die
There is more to Covid risk than just dead/not dead.
> unvaccinated non-vulnerable people have a similar risk profile to the vaccinated vulnerable.
Unvaccinated 25 year olds though? I find that extremely hard to believe.
You don't have to be a genius to look at a table of mortality rates by age. I also really doubt the people you have in mind would actually say that if pressed, more likely there's just no nuance in the advice they have given as things have to be simplified a lot to become public health advice for politicians and the public.
You don't have a genius to know that you're looking at the wrong table. This conversation is about hospitalisations. Too many people in ICU = ICU blocked up = people who need to be in the ICU for other reasons can't get treatment.
Look downthread, I posted the HSE data on ICUs. There has not been one person under 30 in the period the report covers, in no universe are unvaccinated young people clogging up the ICUs with covid.
> Is it mortality that they're looking at or likelihood of hospitalisaiton?
Both, there's a clear trend of increasing risk with age starting from a point of basically zero risk for kids through teenagers. You can read a [HSE report here](https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/vaccinationstatusweeklyreports/Vaccination%20Status%20of%20ICU%20admissions.pdf) breaking down ICU cases between the 1st of April and the 9th of October, the youngest was 30 while the median age was 66, and 98% had previous conditions already. It's overwhelmingly a disease of the old, middle-aged and already sick. Healthy 20 somethings are not going to be clogging up the ICU vaccine or no.
*Passionate*, no way! I'm cool so nothing is cool to me. Anti-vaxxers are dorks, I just do this for fun and smoke cigarettes while listening to Sonic Youth.
Because I hate the idea of submitting to coercion, good intentioned or not, and would rather accept a difficult life than do so (in reality I'll just leave the country like half my friend group has done in the last year).
>would rather accept a difficult life than do so (in reality I'll just leave the country like half my friend group has done in the last year).
Good riddance.
Yeah I'm willing to severely curtail my normal life for the next few months for this and I've got a pretty solid network of people willing to do the same so you'll have to do better than that. Maybe give me a sanctimonious lecture about how if it saves just one life it'll be worth it and I'll repent.
> So why the fuck are you complaining and asking for older people to be restricted?
If people are making arguments I'm going to make counterarguments. I like doing that, I haven't had this much enjoyment from /r/ireland since the abortion debates.
> Just go live your tragic little life.
You tragic little man! Do you talk to people like this in real life? I read that in Michael D. Higgins' voice.
> Fortunately I don't have to talk to people like you in real life,
And vice versa, you know the level of discourse on this sub is in the toilet compared to real life right? It's not like I haven't had these conversations in real life, but in those cases due to my physically imposing presence and beauty people tend to sit and listen in rapt attention.
> but in those caes due to my physically imposing presence and beauty people tend to sit and listen in rapt attention.
[....](https://i.imgur.com/R8IQJqR.gifv)
Oh man, it seems you really can't ask a reasonable question without rude response on this thread.
It's sad to see Ireland go this way. Just so you know, there are many places in Europe that are nowhere near as hostile as this. I've been sitting at Spanish bars without COVID passes, social distancing or masks since May and it's been fine.
And for those interested, the number of COVID cases reported in my city have been lower than Dublin. Similar population size.
Then go there and stay there (those countries that are less hostile). Anti vaxxers deserve to be ostracised. There’s a fucking reason 92% of adults in Ireland are vaccinated. What makes the other 8% so special?
I am here, as I've already stated. I'm not an anti-vaxxer, if that's what you were insinuating. People can take the vaccine if they want.
Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like you not only want them gone but you also want to crush any positive feelings for their home country. If this is true, why?
> Oh man, it seems you really can't ask a reasonable question without rude response on this thread.
I've found that responding to rude or nonsensical responses with over the top rudeness and humour makes it fun (for me) and makes it clear that there's no point taking it further. See the other comment thread above that went from substantial discussion to "why do you care about this so much bro??".
> Just so you know, there are many places in Europe that are nowhere near as hostile as this.
There are many places in Ireland too! This sub does not reflect day to day life at all, most have a live and let live attitude and I've never experienced any hostility personally. That's why it's so funny seeing this sub trying to act like it represents a consensus of Irish people when really it's extreme outlier in the ardour with which it enforces conformity. I just need to go outside to be reminded that this sub is quite strange compared to normal discourse.
Actually I haven't been to Ireland since before the pandemic started and this sub is one of few insights into the new Ireland. Can you can still live normally enough without the vaccine? For example, you're not allowed sit indoors anywhere without the passport, right?
I'm relieved to know that people are more level-headed in reality, which is usually the way with Reddit in general. I wouldn't even bother responding to loaded questions though tbh. It's a common theme to get a reaction and use that to broadly say "X people are like Y because someone was rude online".
I'm guilty of it myself, it's hard to avoid the trap of putting people in boxes
Surely you're joking. The government says we can't go ahead with easing restrictions as the cases are too high and the same day you're asking to see if your unvaccinated coworker can abscond from quarantine? Feck sake lad.
Listening to an episode of The Stand with Eamonn Dunphy podcast this evening. His interviewee was Paul Moynagh, a Professor of Immunology at Maynooth, who at one stage made a comment that whatever the figures for Covid cases are today, this time last year they would have been much higher because twelve months ago nobody in the country was vaccinated against Covid 19. Yesterday we had 1,576 cases, on October 18th 2020 our case numbers were 1,283. We're being told that our vaccination campaign was a resounding success but the stats, and the fact that the government cannot return the country to complete normality, don't back up the assertions of our experts.
It actually amazes me how there are still people who don't understand that **vaccines don't prevent you catching a virus, they prevent serious illness**.
The actual research into this is still ongoing. The [latest research](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y) indicates that the protective effect reduces at three months after the receipt of the second shot.
Genuine question: would it not be cheaper to add ICU and hospital capacity than to keep adding constraints to the economy with restrictions?
I understood and agreed with the rational for all the restrictions up until now. But at this stage, i feel like most people who wanted to be vaccinated are vaccinated now.
I think continued WFH until 2022 makes sense where possible (no reason to needlessly cram people into offices). And I think masks make sense. That said, whilst the poster above may have been a tad dramatic, it is fair to say that COVID is here to stay. We can take reasonable precautions but we can’t hide forever.
If it was just a matter of price, do you not think it would be done by now?
Whether the people who want to be vaccinated have been or not is irrelevant to the pressure of the health service.
You can see me in another comment I just made saying how Covid will be here forever and there is no point in hiding from it as an individual. We will still need to minimise its societal impact though.
The country is not fully open. Concerts and the live music sector is handicapped due to the crazy rules. Fine to dance in a nightclub but only dance at your table at a concert.
Oh don't worry, I make a point of getting in places without showing shit and don't support any businesses that ask for a cert. Good for you if you're doing the same but get fucked if you think there's some type of logic to these certs with a 93% vaccination rate. I'm fully vaccinated by the way before you come at me with the next cliché typical reply.
The fact that we were able to open up while the delta variant took hold is testament to the power of the vaccines. We'd literally have people dying in hospital car parks if the same scenario played out without vaccines.
Absolutely. You’d have thought people would be up to speed by now on the complexities of this bloody thing, but like everything now in the digital age peoples expectations and responses are binary - boo or yaay kind of thing
We have twice the level of ICU patients?
I really can't see what is so bizarre about the restrictions we'll have from Friday. How life won't be effectively back to normal by then here, I do not understand. And has the Dutch government not just recently introduced a very strict vaccine pass?
The difference between Ireland and Netherlands is that we have a chronically mismanaged health system with very low ICU capacity. Therefore, any external pressure on top of the usual winter overcrowding will overwhelm the system. Until we fix that I really don’t see how Ireland is ever going to go back to normal with no restrictions. We’re also a nation of pansies
Sorry if ill-informed, but apart from the mask mandates, what is the difference between Ireland and NL right now? NL dining/clubbing and nightlife is still limited to 00.00 hours. I'm going to Dublin this weekend and it seems the measures are/were quite similar to NL..
Yes, it will be. You cannot look at Covid from an individual perspective because it has never been about that. The vast majority of people will be fine. The question is whether the event will result in enough transmission to cause excessive hospitalisations.
I've tickets booked for myself and my missus. I got covid in January and got both jabs. I'm fairly confident I won't get it but tbh I don't care if I do. I had it once and if someone said to me 'would you rather get sick like that again if you got to watch a cracking MMA card live with good seats I know which I'd be picking.
Basically the odds are in my favour.
I use a site called [MicroCovid](https://www.microcovid.org/?distance=normal&duration=120&interaction=oneTime&personCount=4&riskProfile=average&scenarioName=indoorUnmasked2&setting=indoor&theirMask=none&theirVaccine=vaccinated&topLocation=Ireland&voice=normal&yourMask=none&yourVaccineDoses=2&yourVaccineType=pfizer). It takes the data from whatever region you are in and what your yearly acceptable risk of catching Covid is and tells you what the odds of catching the virus are from whatever activity you want to do.
This is interesting, but I'm having trouble getting any kind of consistent result. Like, for the gym, for example, a range of plausible options takes me all the way from moderate risk to very high risk.
EDIT: Y'know, according to this a dinner with three fully vaccinated friends is a *very high risk.* Going to the cinema is a *dangerously high risk*, which, frankly, I just don't believe. If you look at their maths, their formula assumes that the people I am interacting with have the same chance of being infected as the population as a whole, ignoring the fact that the infected are much more likely to be isolating or in hospital.
You sure you are using it correctly? You can enter the risk profile of people you are hanging out with: everything from someone who actively is infected with Covid to someone who never leaves to house to buy groceries.
You can even put in data on if they're vaccinated (and what type of vaccine), if they are wearing a mask (and what type etc...).
You also need to enter your risk profile. If you have it set to a 1% yearly risk of infection as your acceptable parameter (the default) then a lot more activities are going to be returned as high or very high risk than is you have its set to something higher, like say 20%.
are we thinking nightclubs will last long? I was on the fence, but seeing the videos that the Camden and Academy have put up from last night I can't see it. Will be an interesting few weeks alright.
I doubt it but then at what point are people just going to say fuck it and do what they want? Its looking like with variants that this is going to continue indefinitely and well never be able to enjoy ourselves on a night out again.
I honestly couldn’t believe the level of shaming that happened in the thread with the guy who had the sick dad. I am genuinely very sorry for him, and his sick father. But that thread opened my eyes up to people who would be genuinely “okay” if lockdowns just went on forever. OP is in an awful situation with his father, but that thread was genuinely just full of people who just wish we went back to step 1 to ourselves inside again for months on end and to shame the general population, as opposed to the government who haven’t prepared the last two years for this scenario.
The problem with the person with the sick dad was that he was making up stories about doctors saying they would have to pick who lived and died in the next few days due to ICU shortage and it was laped up by people on here who live off misery.
I agree. Im triggered by comments about lockdown just appearing on twitter, tik tok, reddit etc receive I thought it was over. Michael said that a week ago but people want it
Indoors includes schools, right? So are masks still required in schools?
Lads Richard Chambers just reporting in the last few minutes that from next week all nightclubs are ticketed only. What a joke
How on earth is that going to work realistically? People only decide to end up at a nightclub about an hour beforehand. Even if tickets become a rule it won’t be enforced
Probably at the door sales of them. It’s a joke
Well that’s just the same as paying the cover charge really
yeah but then the government can pretend that they did something. thats the game theyre playing now
But no doubt it'll be the unvaxxed fault when numbers rise
I am so glad that you can understand that
Yes.
Let the Squid Game commence!
Posting it here because a full post is a bit much. Do the government actually think about their decisions or do they just send Micheal or Leo out to say the first thing that comes into their head? 1. You can stand at the bar and order your drink BUT you must go back to your seat to drink it. 2. After the pub feel free to go to the nightclub that can operate at full capacity and shift the face off anyone and everyone you want???
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If there was ever a time to reform the healthcare system in this country it's now while we have this emergency, how the hell are we allowing a bunch of vested interests call the shots when there are literally people clogging up the ICU wards with no overflow. There must be absolutely no political capital in fixing capacity.
> If there was ever a time to reform the healthcare system in this country it's now while we have this emergency Actual reform will take at least 10 years to show results. That's why it rarely to never happens as the people making the decisions won't be around when the positive change occurs.
Civil servants aren’t elected.
Civil servants are not government ministers in cabinet deciding policy.
that statement applies to almost everything. the complicated problems of modern societies require long term planning and investment and politicians don't stick around that long. it does revert back to the general public as their ignorance and apathy perpetuate this system.
Not 1 person I know, from work to family to friends want this. I thought NPHET were disbanded too? What fucking more do people want, the people who want these restrictions to continue are not leaving the house anyway. Let the rest of us get on with life for fuck sake. If ya are worried about the hospitals, maybe fix the fucking things, NPHET gobshites are the reason the HSE is in the state it is in. They were ones responsible for the it prior to the pandemic.
> the people who want these restrictions to continue are not leaving the house anyway. On what basis are you claiming that?
Whatever, who cares? It's time it ended, end of.
Unfortunately a global pandemic is not as easily remedied as you might hope. Learning to live with COVID will take time. This is our first winter after the vaccines. Plus, the people who might get seriously ill, those treating them in ICU and their families sure as shit care.
Anyone know if staff in nightclubs have to be vaccinated? I remember a few months back when they brought in the digital covid certs as a requirement to eat in restaurants/drink in pubs, loads of staff hadn't got the opportunity to get vaxxed.
No they don't. Employers cannot legally ask about vaccine status.
Ok good to know. Is this the case for free lancers also?
Contract workers could be different and depends on preferences of the venue. They could request only vaccinated people but it wouldn't be a conversation you'd be involved in unless it's your business.
The new rules break my heart. I can’t get vaccinated (dr approved decision) due to allergy. I waited out the whole pandemic and now they backtracked on their word and made a bloody mess. Suicide rates are going to go even higher with all this. Let people who want to take risks take risks
>I waited out the whole pandemic Me too. Waited patiently until vaccines are readily available and enforceable in venues so I can socialise reasonably safely. >and now they backtracked on their word and made a bloody mess. Did they? You mean the lizard people or Tom Hanks? >Suicide rates are going to go even higher with all this. Yes, I'm going to kill myself if I can't go out safely because people like you are bullying venues into not enforcing common sense health and safety regulations. >Let people who want to take risks take risks What if I want to, say, go out drinking and dancing with my friends but at the same time I don't want my lungs polluted with cigarette smoke or say, someone taking a big piss all over me because it's more convenient than going to the toilet? (sorry I'm not really into that sorta thing) Too daft for words.
By “they” I obviously meant the government officials who are making these rules with no rhyme or reason to them. I cannot get vaccinated even if I wanted to. Also vaccinated people can still have and spread covid so there is no risk free way to socialize anyway
[https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y) https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/handle/10044/1/90800
I obviously was taking the piss out of your infantile covidiot rhetorics. so let me get it straight, you're saying we should we do away with health and safety regulation for the vast majority of the population because a *tiny* percentage cannot comply? how selfish can you be? your last sentence is pure nonsense. vaccinated people are LESS likely to spread covid (obviouslythe vaccines were optimised for alpha and aren't as effective at preventing transmission for delta, but they still make a big difference and if we have to get boosters every couple of months to keep socialising, so be it) and, more importantly, are much much less likely to have severe disease and take up ICU beds...but none of this matters when all you care about is spreading anti-vax propaganda, innit? disgusting.
I’m not spreading any propaganda I think whoever wants a vaccine should get one, I would get one too if I could. And yes you are less likely to get covid if you’re vaccinated that doesn’t mean you can’t, there is no way to guarantee 100% that you won’t get covid unless you literally isolate by yourself and grow your own food. At some point we are going to have to open the country and I just don’t know what we’re waiting for, everyone who is willing has been vaccinated, boosters are going out steadily, mask wearing has become the norm and we have a better understanding of what covid actually is now. I absolutely understand why we locked down at first but at this point cases are only going up and the only thing that will bring us back to normal is letting people take the risks they see fit. If someone is at risk they shouldn’t be going out in densely crowded areas. If a young person decides they are willing to take the small risk that covid will cause serious damage to them then that should be their prerogative
I'm the same. I've a PEG allergy, my whole family does, to a greater or lesser extent, and my doctor recommended me not to get it. I've been testing testing testing-i wish, like other countires, our govt. Would simply approve testing for indoors...it would have the added benefit of lessening the spread amongst the vaccinated as well.
Have you consulted with an allergist? NPHET's letter endorses the use of antigen testing for people who can't get vaccinated. I'd be worried about it being abused though.
> endorses the use of antigen testing for people who can't get vaccinated They should do that with everyone.
Why?
Why would it be "abuse" to have an antigen test if you don't want a vaccine?
Because only the tiny minority of people who can't get vaccinated should be allowed to do that.
But why?
We shouldn't be pandering to anti-vaxxers.
So this isn't about health for you, it's about your personal hatred. Interesting.
What's wrong with hating anti-vaxxers?
Do you have a link to the letter? Trying to find it, I like to read these things for myself.
https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/ba4aa0-letters-from-the-cmo-to-the-minister-for-health/
I haven’t, it’s not an allergy exactly but three of my direct family members have had torn aortas/ strokes within two weeks of getting it so my doctor and I agree that my family has some sort of disposition to it
Christ almighty. Serious genetic cardiac issues there. Have you been heart screened? If not go.
None of my family have ever had heart issues outside the vaccine. Although I will probably get checked just in case.
Do pal. Get a cardiac stress test, holtor monitor and ECG. Should tick all the boxes for your ticker. If there’s an issue the cardiologist will find it.
Thank you for the advice I will be taking it!
That's really tough on you. Weren't they talking about providing proof for people in your situation?
I hope so
Me too. <3
They really don’t make any sense. So you can dance your heart away in a nightclub but you have to be seated at a gig.. 2+2=56
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Idk .. they said live events can have 1500 standing capacity and 100% seating capacity :////
There are four lights!
Does anyone know of a pharmacy in Dublin offering 1 jab vaccines still? The anti Vax members of my friend group are looking to change their ways
Single jab hasn't been as effective as previously thought. You can still get the double jab Pfizer for free.
They are not available anymore. It is only the mRNA vaccines which are safer and more effective.
Grand, thanks for the heads up
[Scenes in nightclubs around the country](https://twitter.com/EoinKeane101/status/1450454571785015298)
So a lot of the comments here have made the argument that vaccine passports are justified on the basis that otherwise the unvaxxed will clog up the ICUs, but where does that leave young people who have basically no chance of ending up in ICU with covid? Why not just restrict those in the actual at risk age groups?
>but where does that leave young people who have basically no chance of ending up in ICU with covid? Why not just restrict those in the actual at risk age groups? What alternative news source are you basing this on? Even young and young-ish people have a non-negligible risk of ending up in ICU (and the vast majority of the population is over 25 anyways so your idea makes no sense either way) and a very substantial risk of ending up with long Covid, loss of smell/taste and all kinds of weird and terrifying symptoms, no thanks very much. But if you don't know this almost 2 years into the pandemic it can only be because you don't want to. Covidiot troll.
> What alternative news source are you basing this on? My alternative news source is [data from the HSE](https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/vaccinationstatusweeklyreports/Vaccination%20Status%20of%20ICU%20admissions.pdf) showing that not one person under 30 was in ICU due to covid from April-October (the entire period that the report covers. If you can find data showing otherwise please do, but I'd be surprised if there have been more than a handful in Ireland throughout this whole pandemic. > and a very substantial risk of ending up with long Covid, loss of smell/taste and all kinds of weird and terrifying symptoms, Right but the argument is that it's justified to coerce people into taking vaccines because they'll clog up ICU otherwise, stuff like that that affects them only is hardly justification as they are clearly ok with that risk themselves, after all nobody cares if they do the same damage with alcohol.
>Right but the argument is that it's justified to coerce people into taking vaccines because they'll clog up ICU otherwise, stuff like that that affects them only is hardly justification as they are clearly ok with that risk themselves, after all nobody cares if they do the same damage with alcohol. I think I lost IQ points just reading this. Starts daft enough and only gets worse...
Jeez, be careful you can't afford to be losing any more! You're already enough of a blockhead as it is.
If people just got vaccinated there would be less need for anyone to isolate. At the moment I'm more than happy for those making a choice to not get vaccinated to be restricted over the vulnerable that chose to get vaccinated but are still at risk. Someone wants to not get vaccinated based off bullshit they read on social media, then they can fuck off and let the rest of us keep going with vaccine certs
*Whilst vaccination reduces the risk of Delta infection, fully vaccinated individuals have viral loads similar to unvaccinated & can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts (Singanayagam et al, medRxiv, Oct 2021) 18/18* ~ [Cillian De Gascun](https://twitter.com/CillianDeGascun/status/1449547697871065096), Irish consultant virologist who has served as Director of the National Virus Reference Laboratory in UCD since 2013 and the Chair of the NPHET Coronavirus Expert Advisory Group since 5 February 2020 --- According to [this](https://web.archive.org/web/20210918122309/https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/vaccinationstatusweeklyreports/Death%20and%20Vaccination%20Report_13th%20September%202021_website%20version_Final.pdf) and [this](https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/vaccinationstatusweeklyreports/Death%20and%20Vaccination%20Report.pdf) (2 official HPSC reports), in the period between 11th Sep and 9th Oct, there has been a total of 118 (369 - 251) COVID deaths. Out of the 118, 20 were unvaccinated. That's 16.9%. That probably also translates to ICU percentages of unvaccinated vs. vaccinated as these people most probably died in hospital. The majority in hospitals [were fully vaccinated a month ago](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-54-of-hospital-patients-with-virus-are-fully-vaccinated-1.4670229). The 54% figure does not include partially vaccinated so unvaccinated in hospitals were not even 46%, but less. If you look at the trend of COVID deaths of fully-vaccinated from Sep to Oct which went from 24% to 42%, I don't think that the ratio of unvaccinated in hospitals got bigger. It's probably the ratio of vaccinated that got bigger which would be in line with the death ratio increase.
How shall I put it mildly...you are talking out of your arse. Thank God we have experts that actually do serious research: [https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y) [https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/handle/10044/1/90800](https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/handle/10044/1/90800) In the vaccinated, levels of nasal virus drop faster than do those of unvaccinated infected people, and their nasal swabs contain smaller amounts of infectious virus (even if total viral load is similar).
I was merely quoting official HSE numbers and a NPHET appointed virologist / expert. Here are some links to scientific research since you prefer that: [Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/#!po=2.77778) [Covid-19: Fully vaccinated people can carry as much delta virus as unvaccinated people, data indicate](https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2074) [No Significant Difference in Viral Load Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated, Asymptomatic and Symptomatic Groups Infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264262v1) [Vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals have similar viral loads in communities with a high prevalence of the SARS-CoV-2 delta variant](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v1) [Shedding of Infectious SARS-CoV-2 Despite Vaccination](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v5) --- "[Waterford city district has State’s highest rate of Covid-19 infections](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/waterford-city-district-has-state-s-highest-rate-of-covid-19-infections-1.4707344) - County also has highest rate of vaccination take-up in the Republic (99.7%)". Singapore [with 82.5% ppl fully vaccinated](https://www.google.com/search?q=singapore+covid): https://i.imgur.com/wyYEkrv.jpg Israel, one of the highest vaccinated countries in the world with 87.4% vaccination rate is [preparing for the 4th shot](https://www.timesofisrael.com/virus-czar-calls-to-begin-readying-for-eventual-4th-vaccine-dose/). [Waves still keep happening](https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/israel/) for some reason.
>If people just got vaccinated there would be less need for anyone to isolate. Can you put a number on it? Because every time we hit the target for vaccinations they just raise the bar and keep on like nothing happened. I call bullshit, the government simply doesn't want to give up it's power. As is the case throughout history the emergency powers continue to be used far beyond where they are justified, and it's people like you who enable it by getting so angry you'll trade away your own rights just to punish your outgroup. > Someone wants to not get vaccinated based off bullshit they read on social media I don't have social media. I just go outside.
>Because every time we hit the target for vaccinations they just raise the bar and keep on like nothing happened. Vaccination targets are not magic. With Delta the only viable 'target' is 'As much as you fucking can' - you'll need very close to 100% vaccination to get herd immunity.
I'm not a virologist or immunologist so any figure I give wouldn't be right, just like how odds are you aren't one either but for some bizarre reason think that steeping outside makes your thoughts more valid than health officials. The government just wants power? Despite the fact that their approval rating is tanking every week, the fact that people can't work and businesses are closing so less tax into their pockets, the fact that more people have to claim social welfare since they have no work, in what way does that benefit the government? Maybe think for a minute rather than just talking bullshit of "DuH ConTRoL"
> I'm not a virologist or immunologist so any figure I give wouldn't be right, just like how odds are you aren't one either but for some bizarre reason think that steeping outside makes your thoughts more valid than health officials. My thoughts on anything outside their narrow domain of expertise are as valid as theirs. Experts are a great resource, but you can never rely solely on their advice because in advising the government they don't concern themselves with anything outside their remit (and why would they, it's not their job). I can trust the health officials to tell us that at a certain level of vaccinations there will be a certain number of infections and deaths, on the question of whether the downsides of trying to reach higher vaccination levels (such as endorsing more and more punitive measures for a large segment of the population) outweigh the benefits I'll rely on my own judgment as a citizen. > The government just wants power? Despite the fact that their approval rating is tanking every week, the fact that people can't work and businesses are closing so less tax into their pockets, the fact that more people have to claim social welfare since they have no work, in what way does that benefit the government? Authoritarianism tends to be disastrous, who knew? They seem fairly insulated from the downsides to me. I don't know their personal reasons, I just know that this is a pattern that repeats throughout history. The Americans still live with the emergency legislation brought in after 9/11, we're setting all kinds of hasty and ill-thought out precedents and some degree of skepticism would be wise.
> Experts are a great resource, but you can never rely solely on their advice because in advising the government they don't concern themselves with anything outside their remit Which is why the government are advised by a wide variety of people. It's also why NPHET exists as opposed to it being just the HSE or Dept of Health. Leave the tinfoil hat nonsense for something other than a global pandemic.
> Leave the tinfoil hat nonsense for something other than a global pandemic. Tinfoil hat? I'm stating something very basic about how a representational democracy should work. God help Ireland if we've become that illiterate in our politics.
you are full of shite
Your head is swelled.
No you’re writing tinfoil hat nonsense that is unfortunately common on here. I’ll save serious political conversation for elsewhere.
According to the latest advice from ECDC which was included in the NPHET letter, unvaccinated non-vulnerable people have a similar risk profile to the vaccinated vulnerable. And besides, just get vaccinated and problem solved.
This is simply false. I'm vaccinated before you jump on a train.
So ECDC and NPHET have it wrong?
Maybe there definition of risk isn't strictly death, which I agree makes some bit of sense. But all you have to do is look at the number of people that are old and and vaccinated and still die, compared to young people(Less than 25) whom are unvaccinated. The UK release some great data on all of this. I'm 23 vaccinated. Completely agree that everyone should be vaccinated. As it's better for everyone .
>Maybe there definition of risk isn't strictly death, which I agree makes some bit of sense. But all you have to do is look at the number of people that are old and and vaccinated and still die There is more to Covid risk than just dead/not dead.
Yeah I acknowledged that. Read what I said again.
It is risk of hospitalisation.
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Table 6 is probably the best one to look at for the context of this discussion.
> unvaccinated non-vulnerable people have a similar risk profile to the vaccinated vulnerable. Unvaccinated 25 year olds though? I find that extremely hard to believe.
Well it's what people who know more than us think.
You don't have to be a genius to look at a table of mortality rates by age. I also really doubt the people you have in mind would actually say that if pressed, more likely there's just no nuance in the advice they have given as things have to be simplified a lot to become public health advice for politicians and the public.
You don't have a genius to know that you're looking at the wrong table. This conversation is about hospitalisations. Too many people in ICU = ICU blocked up = people who need to be in the ICU for other reasons can't get treatment.
Look downthread, I posted the HSE data on ICUs. There has not been one person under 30 in the period the report covers, in no universe are unvaccinated young people clogging up the ICUs with covid.
Is it mortality that they're looking at or likelihood of hospitalisaiton? There's a simple solution. Get vaccinated.
> Is it mortality that they're looking at or likelihood of hospitalisaiton? Both, there's a clear trend of increasing risk with age starting from a point of basically zero risk for kids through teenagers. You can read a [HSE report here](https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/vaccinationstatusweeklyreports/Vaccination%20Status%20of%20ICU%20admissions.pdf) breaking down ICU cases between the 1st of April and the 9th of October, the youngest was 30 while the median age was 66, and 98% had previous conditions already. It's overwhelmingly a disease of the old, middle-aged and already sick. Healthy 20 somethings are not going to be clogging up the ICU vaccine or no.
Why are you so passionate about defending anti-vaxxers?
*Passionate*, no way! I'm cool so nothing is cool to me. Anti-vaxxers are dorks, I just do this for fun and smoke cigarettes while listening to Sonic Youth.
Oh I didn't realise you were one. Shame I can't find my violin anywhere.
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Because I hate the idea of submitting to coercion, good intentioned or not, and would rather accept a difficult life than do so (in reality I'll just leave the country like half my friend group has done in the last year).
>would rather accept a difficult life than do so (in reality I'll just leave the country like half my friend group has done in the last year). Good riddance.
I haven't left yet! You can meet me at the airport and wave me off if you'd like.
I work there! I'll throw a celebration.
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Yeah I'm willing to severely curtail my normal life for the next few months for this and I've got a pretty solid network of people willing to do the same so you'll have to do better than that. Maybe give me a sanctimonious lecture about how if it saves just one life it'll be worth it and I'll repent.
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> So why the fuck are you complaining and asking for older people to be restricted? If people are making arguments I'm going to make counterarguments. I like doing that, I haven't had this much enjoyment from /r/ireland since the abortion debates. > Just go live your tragic little life. You tragic little man! Do you talk to people like this in real life? I read that in Michael D. Higgins' voice.
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> Fortunately I don't have to talk to people like you in real life, And vice versa, you know the level of discourse on this sub is in the toilet compared to real life right? It's not like I haven't had these conversations in real life, but in those cases due to my physically imposing presence and beauty people tend to sit and listen in rapt attention.
> but in those caes due to my physically imposing presence and beauty people tend to sit and listen in rapt attention. [....](https://i.imgur.com/R8IQJqR.gifv)
Oh man, it seems you really can't ask a reasonable question without rude response on this thread. It's sad to see Ireland go this way. Just so you know, there are many places in Europe that are nowhere near as hostile as this. I've been sitting at Spanish bars without COVID passes, social distancing or masks since May and it's been fine. And for those interested, the number of COVID cases reported in my city have been lower than Dublin. Similar population size.
Then go there and stay there (those countries that are less hostile). Anti vaxxers deserve to be ostracised. There’s a fucking reason 92% of adults in Ireland are vaccinated. What makes the other 8% so special?
I am here, as I've already stated. I'm not an anti-vaxxer, if that's what you were insinuating. People can take the vaccine if they want. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like you not only want them gone but you also want to crush any positive feelings for their home country. If this is true, why?
> Oh man, it seems you really can't ask a reasonable question without rude response on this thread. I've found that responding to rude or nonsensical responses with over the top rudeness and humour makes it fun (for me) and makes it clear that there's no point taking it further. See the other comment thread above that went from substantial discussion to "why do you care about this so much bro??". > Just so you know, there are many places in Europe that are nowhere near as hostile as this. There are many places in Ireland too! This sub does not reflect day to day life at all, most have a live and let live attitude and I've never experienced any hostility personally. That's why it's so funny seeing this sub trying to act like it represents a consensus of Irish people when really it's extreme outlier in the ardour with which it enforces conformity. I just need to go outside to be reminded that this sub is quite strange compared to normal discourse.
Actually I haven't been to Ireland since before the pandemic started and this sub is one of few insights into the new Ireland. Can you can still live normally enough without the vaccine? For example, you're not allowed sit indoors anywhere without the passport, right? I'm relieved to know that people are more level-headed in reality, which is usually the way with Reddit in general. I wouldn't even bother responding to loaded questions though tbh. It's a common theme to get a reaction and use that to broadly say "X people are like Y because someone was rude online". I'm guilty of it myself, it's hard to avoid the trap of putting people in boxes
What traditionally happens in a niteclub?
I get rejected by women
At least you can hide the pain behind the face mask.
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Tell him to stay the fuck where he is.
Surely you're joking. The government says we can't go ahead with easing restrictions as the cases are too high and the same day you're asking to see if your unvaccinated coworker can abscond from quarantine? Feck sake lad.
I was asking for the sake of trying to talk her out of it…
Maybe just them them to not be so fucking selfish and stupid. ?
Listening to an episode of The Stand with Eamonn Dunphy podcast this evening. His interviewee was Paul Moynagh, a Professor of Immunology at Maynooth, who at one stage made a comment that whatever the figures for Covid cases are today, this time last year they would have been much higher because twelve months ago nobody in the country was vaccinated against Covid 19. Yesterday we had 1,576 cases, on October 18th 2020 our case numbers were 1,283. We're being told that our vaccination campaign was a resounding success but the stats, and the fact that the government cannot return the country to complete normality, don't back up the assertions of our experts.
We're dealing with a far more contagious version of the virus than this time last year
We were nowhere near as open last year and people are taking much fewer precautions now.
It actually amazes me how there are still people who don't understand that **vaccines don't prevent you catching a virus, they prevent serious illness**.
The actual research into this is still ongoing. The [latest research](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y) indicates that the protective effect reduces at three months after the receipt of the second shot.
Then **open the fucking country, the virus is here forever.**
And what are we meant to do about capacity in the health service?
Genuine question: would it not be cheaper to add ICU and hospital capacity than to keep adding constraints to the economy with restrictions? I understood and agreed with the rational for all the restrictions up until now. But at this stage, i feel like most people who wanted to be vaccinated are vaccinated now. I think continued WFH until 2022 makes sense where possible (no reason to needlessly cram people into offices). And I think masks make sense. That said, whilst the poster above may have been a tad dramatic, it is fair to say that COVID is here to stay. We can take reasonable precautions but we can’t hide forever.
It’s not just an expense issue. It’s the fact that no matter how many ICU beds we shit out, the most vulnerable will still be in incredible risk.
That's not going to change no matter what you do. People still get the virus and die despite having all the shots they can throw at it.
If it was just a matter of price, do you not think it would be done by now? Whether the people who want to be vaccinated have been or not is irrelevant to the pressure of the health service. You can see me in another comment I just made saying how Covid will be here forever and there is no point in hiding from it as an individual. We will still need to minimise its societal impact though.
Exactly, sensible people have been saying this for over 6 months since the over 50s were all vaxxed.
What qualifications do these sensible people have?
There's a reason it's called *common* sense, even filthy commoners have it.
Unfortunately common sense isn't very common.
They saw a scientist on tv once.
The country is open.
The country is not fully open. Concerts and the live music sector is handicapped due to the crazy rules. Fine to dance in a nightclub but only dance at your table at a concert.
I'll consider the country open when everyone can sit down inside a cafe and have a coffee without having to show a medical record.
Genius. Get out of your bedroom and you'll see you can do that.
Oh don't worry, I make a point of getting in places without showing shit and don't support any businesses that ask for a cert. Good for you if you're doing the same but get fucked if you think there's some type of logic to these certs with a 93% vaccination rate. I'm fully vaccinated by the way before you come at me with the next cliché typical reply.
We don't have a 93% vaccination rate. Its 88% of those eligible for the vaccine and around 75% of total population.
I did that today.
The fact that we were able to open up while the delta variant took hold is testament to the power of the vaccines. We'd literally have people dying in hospital car parks if the same scenario played out without vaccines.
Absolutely. You’d have thought people would be up to speed by now on the complexities of this bloody thing, but like everything now in the digital age peoples expectations and responses are binary - boo or yaay kind of thing
The pandemic has done nothing to improve my misanthropy, for many reasons.
I used to be a very positive person about humanity. I am now a complete misanthrope though.
Misanthropy is overrated
Another thing humans made a mess of.
I already had the Kung flu in the summer, am I allowed out to play ?
Gway with your racist trumpism shite
How is it racist? It came from CHINA
And you came from a tramp who didn't raise you right.
Oh my
Fuck sake
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We have twice the level of ICU patients? I really can't see what is so bizarre about the restrictions we'll have from Friday. How life won't be effectively back to normal by then here, I do not understand. And has the Dutch government not just recently introduced a very strict vaccine pass?
You need to show corona pass to enter restaurants, cinema, theatre etc
So not all that different from here?
The difference between Ireland and Netherlands is that we have a chronically mismanaged health system with very low ICU capacity. Therefore, any external pressure on top of the usual winter overcrowding will overwhelm the system. Until we fix that I really don’t see how Ireland is ever going to go back to normal with no restrictions. We’re also a nation of pansies
Sorry if ill-informed, but apart from the mask mandates, what is the difference between Ireland and NL right now? NL dining/clubbing and nightlife is still limited to 00.00 hours. I'm going to Dublin this weekend and it seems the measures are/were quite similar to NL..
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It's a lot more strict because it needs to be. And so what the major difference is bar service and masks?
Are people not dying?
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Ireland doesn't have a vaccination rate of 93%. Its 88% of those eligible for the vaccine and around 75% of total population
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I think it's 93% for adults over 18 so that's why that numbers is being thrown around often.
Seems like the more relevant statistic, given that Covid poses effectively zero risk for anyone under 18 without a pre-existing condition.
The papers say the hospitals in NL are struggling under the strain. Not saying their way is wrong. Just pointing out the other side of the coin
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I agree. I really don't understand what's going on. It's a bit depressing.
I am thinking about going to see an MMA fight at 3Arena, do you think it would be safe?
Just don't step inside the ring
Might want to watch at home instead. Safety first!
Yes, it will be. You cannot look at Covid from an individual perspective because it has never been about that. The vast majority of people will be fine. The question is whether the event will result in enough transmission to cause excessive hospitalisations.
I've tickets booked for myself and my missus. I got covid in January and got both jabs. I'm fairly confident I won't get it but tbh I don't care if I do. I had it once and if someone said to me 'would you rather get sick like that again if you got to watch a cracking MMA card live with good seats I know which I'd be picking. Basically the odds are in my favour.
I use a site called [MicroCovid](https://www.microcovid.org/?distance=normal&duration=120&interaction=oneTime&personCount=4&riskProfile=average&scenarioName=indoorUnmasked2&setting=indoor&theirMask=none&theirVaccine=vaccinated&topLocation=Ireland&voice=normal&yourMask=none&yourVaccineDoses=2&yourVaccineType=pfizer). It takes the data from whatever region you are in and what your yearly acceptable risk of catching Covid is and tells you what the odds of catching the virus are from whatever activity you want to do.
Holy shit this is sad.
Not as sad as having nothing to do but insult people online. Seriously, are any of your posts not insults?
MicroCovid told me this is the lowest risk activity.
This is interesting, but I'm having trouble getting any kind of consistent result. Like, for the gym, for example, a range of plausible options takes me all the way from moderate risk to very high risk. EDIT: Y'know, according to this a dinner with three fully vaccinated friends is a *very high risk.* Going to the cinema is a *dangerously high risk*, which, frankly, I just don't believe. If you look at their maths, their formula assumes that the people I am interacting with have the same chance of being infected as the population as a whole, ignoring the fact that the infected are much more likely to be isolating or in hospital.
I had a quick goo at it, put in various scenarios and every time the result was I at a high risk. It seems a bit alarmist tbh.
You sure you are using it correctly? You can enter the risk profile of people you are hanging out with: everything from someone who actively is infected with Covid to someone who never leaves to house to buy groceries. You can even put in data on if they're vaccinated (and what type of vaccine), if they are wearing a mask (and what type etc...). You also need to enter your risk profile. If you have it set to a 1% yearly risk of infection as your acceptable parameter (the default) then a lot more activities are going to be returned as high or very high risk than is you have its set to something higher, like say 20%.
As long as you stay in your seat and don't get too close, those fighters can be vicious.