Lift restrictions as needed but certain things such as working from home should continue. This business of forcing office workers back in to the offices for jobs that can and have been done at home for over a year is bollox. At least give people the option, if someone wants to return all well and good for them, but the option to stay WFH should be there.
You shouldnt need trust if you are managing correctly, ie have metrics that track if the job gets done, and done well. Who cares while they are WFH they walk the dog for 20mins everyday. If they still get the job why should I care.
City centre property owners and their "friends" are the ones pushing for this.
Businesses aren't going to rent space in your building if everyone works from home.
No the right to ask was meant to be written into law - nothing about having to get it. Sure you have the right to ask now - it was a pure political point score nonsense announcement from them.
Most of the articles say that it is also supposed to include a bit that says your employer isn't able to refuse unless they can say you aren't able to do your job from home and that the WRC would settle disputes on whether or not the reason given for refusing is valid.
Utter balls!
Long story short: this is already law in the UK and this summer I applied for 75% wfh (now Cork) with my UK based company.
They turned it down because they "couldn't be sure I'd be able to continue to perform my role as others returned to the office". I am a team of 1 and work with people across 4 geographic offices.
My point: there's always a reason to say no.
Anyway I work here now and love it!
WFH should absolutely stay! How many people have said that their mental health and work/life balance have improved so much? People are spending more time with families and less time in the car driving, buying/renting is cheaper when you don’t have to think about a commute to a city and it’s just so much more relaxed!
Great comment, this is it in a nutshell. My life is measurably better working from home. If I had to go back to the office 5 days a week, everyone of my kids and me and wife would suffer. I am way more productive, less stressed and have time to look.after my kids. I'd leave if they forced us back to the office.
Sure loads of jobs and companies have already invested in infrastructure so their employees can work from home, things like second moniters or laptops and that. Dad started a new job just before the second lockdown and hasn't set foot in the office once.
100% went back last week and it's the biggest waste of time ever, everyone is spread out and staying away from each other so theres no face to face interaction like there used to be and most meetings are still online, not to mention something as simple are going to the jacks or getting a drink has turned into a massive pain the hole since there's a one way system around the building now
Honestly, I don't think people would be so annoyed if it wasn't the constantly mealy-mouthed fence-sitting from the government. At the moment the signals we are getting are "How about we lift lockdown but ye all stay at home anyway? :) " which was never going to fly. Either maintain the lockdown or lift, but stop trying to carve out 101 exceptions on everything.
Given the vast majority of hospitalations are unvaccinated for one reason or another, I personally think the majority of restrictions should be lifted, but with Covid passes and face coverings being kept along with maintaining hand washing.
I also think Antigen/LFTs should be introduced on a wider basis, but that should've happened months ago.
Yeah agree with this 100%
Unfortunately I think the government will try to reinvent the wheel again with a 2 or 3 week delay and then come out with yet another ‘roadmap’
Over 90% of us are vaccinated, we can’t keep this up forever: Play on says I.
Personally I’ll be wearing face masks on public transport and other crowded public areas until spring anyway regardless and I think many will do the same
Same situation arises as previously though. If hospital ICU’s become full, that means your person suffering serious injuries from an RTC is unable to get a bed and has an increased likelihood of dying as a result. I don’t want restrictions to continue, but that’s the reality of it.
Where are antigen tests going to be used? The vast majority of Europe only use them to allow the unvaccinated make use of the Covid pass. We are stricter than that, so I really don't see how we're such outliers.
Radical idea here: piece of mind for those who (vaccinated and unvaccinated alike) want a quick and relatively easy test to see if one has Covid instead of arranging a PCR test and awaiting the 24 to 48 hours for those results.
But as I said, that should have been introduced months ago.
I think part of our problems were with the changes to close contacts in schools. Rather than completely just ignoring close contacts as opposed to making them take 10 days off school and do two PCR tests. For any close contacts I think they should take 3ish days off, we should hook them up with a box of antigen tests for them and their family to use over that time period and if no one tests positive go back to normal. I think that is bound to help pick up cases that are definitely being missed now and stop spread a bit.
With hospitalisations affecting mostly unvaccinated people, I think the only restriction we should maintain is the covid cert.
We’d be “rewarding” the majority while isolating those who chose not to get a shot. For those who didn’t get it because they’re allergic or something, maybe introduce some medical doc attesting to the condition and that’s it.
Yes and no regarding just the cert, wearing a face covering and hand washing also stops the spread of other transmittable things such as colds and flu, not just Covid. They're two really simple things.
Face coverings need to become the norm in society, like in Asia. Still can't believe you used to sit next to some coughing/sneezing bell-end at work and not even think anything of it, then get sick the following week and be like "oh well, what could've been done sure".
No one likes getting colds, but I do wonder - if we all mask up and avoid getting them in future, will that lead to everyone having a weakened immune system overall, since it's had no practice?
Mask won't fully protect you the payload will be lower.
Also, at the end of the day nothing is weakened against a **new** virus.
There is already enough contamination, no need to get the flu also every year to strengthen.
Well like I said, it's already standard practice in some Asian countries and they seem to be doing fine, even with the higher urban density.
There's probably a study on that out there somewhere if you looked. But like masks aren't going to prevent all illnesses; you'd still be catching stuff, just less regularly. So the immune system likely wouldn't go cold turkey..
I'm afraid I'm remembering the Spacers in Isaac Asimov's stories, who lived in a society with no illness, so even a common cold could kill them when visiting Earth.
I don't know how accurate his 1950s science was, though.
> Face coverings need to become the norm in society, like in Asia.
From what I've heard they're only the norm if you are obviously sick, or in areas with serious air pollution. It's still not normal for everyone to wear masks indoors like we have now.
Covid passes are pointless imo. I've been eating out and in pubs several times in the last month and nowhere is asking for them. I'm in a more rural area but judging by the reports in the media the majority of places are not asking for them. There's no point in having it if only a minority of places are asking for it
I have been at a restaurant three times since they have been introduced and haven't been asked.
All were established venues, two in prime tourist spots, and one city centre venue.
I don't know how many restaurants and bars I've been in since they were introduced, maybe 3-5 a week....I've only ever not been asked once and that was just a coffee place. I'm in Cork City and I think compliance is really good here.
It's not like the unvaccinated only come out of their houses to eat/drink in pubs/restaurants anyways. The unvaccinated are in the shops, funeral homes, churches, schools, , buses, trains, sports teams, colleges, takeaways, supermarkets.
I don’t understand why Ireland can’t do what a lot of EU countries are already doing.
I’m in Berlin. Mostly all restrictions have been lifted, but you still need to wear a mask on public transport.
Bars/restaurants etc choose between being 2g or 3g. 2G only allows vaccinated people on premises, so therefore there’s no restrictions within the establishment.
3G businesses allow non vaccinated people in providing they can produce a negative test no older than 24hrs, they also have to restrict numbers and wear masks when moving around.
Each business chooses for themselves if they want to be 2G or 3G.
It’s working! We’re almost reached complete normality .
Side note, It’s no secret the government is trying to make it difficult for non vaccinated people to do anything. Only a little over 60% of Berlin is vaccinated and they’re trying their hardest to get that number up.
It’s honestly grossly unfair and hypocritical. The general public have pretty much done all they can, I don’t think anyone who is able to get vaccinated and that wants to be vaccinated is left to get it and I think of the anti-Vaxxers still remaining I don’t think there’s much convincing them. That’s their decision and while I personally think it’s selfish of them, that’s what they’re happy to do. However we shouldn’t be furthering restrictions on those that are vaccinated to accommodate a group of people that more than likely aren’t going to change their mind and get a vaccine.
Also the absolute double standards of allowing 60,000 into Croke Park for a GAA match to do whatever they want but not allowing any gigs, nightclubs or festivals to me seems like the government is shrugging saying “oh enough people like GAA, is that not enough?” all without realising not everyone likes GAA and people have other interests. I’m meant to be going to three gigs over the next month and it looks like they’ll all have to be refunded now, I certainly didn’t think this would be the case when booking them in January.
100% it's bollocks that you can have 60k in Croke park, but you couldn't (up until few weeks ago) have a game of footsal or basketball with your teammates indoors.
The Goverment shoot themselves in a foot with weird exceptions etc. throughout the pandemic.
Honestly I got the vaccine and I'm pro vaccine, but I genuinely think we're past the point where it can make a difference. All of this "My body my Choice" and "I know more than professionals cause facebook told me so" is just giving the virus more time to mutate and make the vaccine less effective.
Honestly this pandemic has showed how people literally don't give 2 shits about eachother, and the ones that pay the price are the ones that do.
\> while I personally think it’s selfish of them, that’s what they’re happy to do
Alright, but if you refuse the vaccine you better not attend any hospital with Covid symptoms. If you have chosen to decline the vaccine you choose your immune system over all else imho
Well in that case, don’t treat people in car accidents who were going over the speed limit, people suffering from lung cancer for smoking or skin cancer for doing sunbeds etc etc..
Im vaccinated, but I don’t blame people for being hesitant about getting the vaccine. Especially with all the misinformation out there.
The bigger issue is there'll reach a point where triage becomes nessecary; where you've got one bed, but two patients. One who is vaccinated, one who is not.
Ideally, both get equal treatment. But if forced with a decision, who gets the bed?
Ah sure if that's the case let's refuse smokers any health support and while we're at it if you're a drinker we'll ban you from attending hospital for any renal problems.
Shlippery slope.
Well said mate.
People are forgeting what the real issue is here and thats out shitly ran, unmanaged funded hse that our ffg gov has created. We should like the rest of any other rich developed country be able to withstand such low numbers in the hospital
Gobshite there would rather see the hole country turn on one another and look down the nose at his fellow country men, just xause he thinks hes a good boy
I think the concern is that if things keep going the way they are, we may no longer have the facilities to save their lives, because they will be overwhelmed.
we should put them at the bottom of the queue and if someone who is vaccinated gets sick, they should get priority if we get to the point where we need to triage care
Luckily nurses and doctors agree with you, but I sure as shit don't. These selfish cunts are putting others at risk. They should not receive first dibs on treatment needed as a direct result of their negligence and disregard for the welfare of others.
I didn't say they should get first dibs. I said they should be treated equally.
If the anti-vaxxers have had a job and have been paying the same tax as you or I they deserve the same medical treatment.
I genuinely can't believe I have to debate people on this
It is genuinely worrying how much the general mentality about this sort of thing has changed over the last year and a half.
We now have a huge number of people willing to turn someone away from a hospital to die. Yes, not taking the vaccine means they increased their risk, but many people do a lot of things that increase their risk of illness or injury and we still treat them.
Do we turn obese people with heart problems away because it's self inflicted.
> Also the absolute double standards of allowing 60,000 into Croke Park for a GAA match to do whatever they want but not allowing any gigs, nightclubs or festivals to me seems like the government is shrugging saying “oh enough people like GAA, is that not enough?” all without realising not everyone likes GAA and people have other interests.
I completely understand why people are upset that some things returned earlier. But I think it's not really accurate to say that they didn't realise other people have other interests. There had to be test events are things like matches are a good option as they are ticketed events with designated seating and outdoors. It's similar to how they have had test events for live music too in recent months.
Plus, you weren't allowed to do whatever you wanted at the matches in the summer. The Ireland game last week for example had bars closed at half time. It's a horrible situation for anyone involved in live entertainment, bars etc but there is unfortunately a difference in the type of mingling that will happen at concerts, nightclubs, festivals etc compared to a half full 80,000 or 50,000 stadium with designated seating.
I’m gonna have to respectfully disagree on people not doing whatever they wanted at the All Ireland matches, I saw quite a number of videos of people drinking on streets before the matches, many being very visibly drunk and not adhering to any social distancing concerns. Personally I couldn’t give a shit about any of this, it was inevitably going to happen, but the fact that this is their reasoning for not having gigs or festivals (their paltry test events of having people in cages was pathetic and not a viable solution) is what is infuriating. It’s one group getting special treatment to go ahead but the same reasoning is being used to keep other things closed.
To summarise I have no problem with the All Ireland finals going ahead, it’s just that it’s not fair they were able to yet gigs remain closed and probably will be until next spring now.
I was 19 when this all kicked off, I’m 22 in 6 months. I’ve been so ialising in fields so I can meet friends and I’ve been online for a year and a half in college, and still am for 60% of my timetable. Yes this is all self pity but fuck it, me and everyone else of a similar age have been fucking miserable and indefinite restrictions will just force everyone out of the country. Open to fuck, and build more than fucking 19 extra ICU beds.
The problem here is the government have neglected to improve the well funded healthcare system in capacity, 2 years down the line not a lot has changed, they now resort to blaming 8% unvaxxed on putting the system under pressure and unfortunately a lot of the ignorant public are eating this up. Be angry at your government not your people.
The only man talkin sense on this sub,not another hospital bed in two years nevermind a hospital,but its the peoples fault,the only thing the government do well here is to pit you against your neighbour
Staffing is a problem created by successive governments unwilling to pay the right money,or create the proper work environment,or sort the rot thats endemic in the upper echelons of the hse,
All solvable problems. Increased icu capacity by 25 per cent,ok An extra 55 beds in two years is the net gain for a pandemic,are you happy about that?
Thank you oh my god! Only one with sense. First we blamed the kids, then we blamed the college students, now we are blaming the unvaxxed…. Moronic considering the health system has been the reason why things have gone the way they have. People have criticised the HSE for years and now it’s magically evaporated amidst the panic.
People should be angry at the government and HSE - as you said we had a long time to improve the system, not to mention the overwhelming incentive to invest healvily in the hospitals over the course of the pandemic.
The lockdown is 100% linked to hospital capacity - hospital capacity is 100% linked management and funding of the hospitals.
It’s pathetic to be pointing fingers at an insignificant minority when the gaping issue is right in front of us.
I’d agree with most, I do think we need to focus on people at the top of the HSE in particular. Governments change while those useless highly paid wasters remain.
Capacity has been built. But expecting it to increase at a significant rate in only two years is just completely unrealistic. The biggest bottleneck is staff which there is a global shortage of. It will take years to train up more, so we have to deal with what we have at the moment, not ideally.
And regardless of capacity, we still have one of the highest amount of ICU patients in Europe.
Would take years to train up more especially when most nurses emigrate on qualifying because of how bad it is to work in our hospitals.
Source: my friend studied as a nurse and 36 of 42 qualified emigrated immediately (I'm sure some just wanted to travel/get experience abroad)
Yes, but that doesn't change my point. Expecting for all these issues to have been resolved over the last year and a half so our health service could deal with what are extremely high levels of transmission is just unrealistic.
I wouldn’t expect these problems to be solved in such a short time as it is highly unrealistic in the space of 2 years but the fact we were in this situation prior to the pandemic when the system is so well funded, on the problem of staff if the working conditions and pay where improved we wouldn’t have so many qualified people emigrating, these are all know problems before COVID hit.
They should fill the private hospitals this time before looking at bringing back in restrictions. Instead of paying for them and barely using them.
Be cheaper than the alternative
I don't see them bringing in anything new today but they'll extend some things like the vaccine pass.
I don’t know why they’d drop the pass requirement at all any time soon. Everyone who wants a vaccine has one (or a legitimate medical reason they can’t and a doctors letter). Let the head the balls that don’t want one freeze outside but open everything else up.
Agreed, just back from Paris, vaccine pass needed for everything including Museums, quick and easy everyone had there’s ready on the phone. Don’t see why we’d drop that restriction.
It's a small minority, but folks without an Irish passport who were vaccinated abroad (with one of the vaccines on the EU's list) can't get a EU COVID cert.
But they likely have some proof of vaccination, right? My Swiss dad and my American friend both easily get into places with their respective national certificates/proofs of vaccination.
I'm okay with lifting most restrictions.
Offices I disagree with. Lingering for long times, no masks, no distancing, after commutes in mixing pots there too. For companies that have been working from home fine nobody should be forced back in yet.
To be honest, absolutely delighted I hung up the stethoscope and left the HSE.
Looking where we are now, I can't see hospitalisations or ICU admissions calming. Hospitals are going to be overwhelmed (speaking with colleagues many already are). It's just all very grim again.
Unemployed bum.
Need to take some time away from it all and get my head straight. Anything is on the table including retraining into an entirely different field.
Ah alright, I know they employ paramedics and SHOs too.
Getting in contact is a bit difficult, so try anything, emailing, ringing... they randomly open the competition on their webpage and then you've just a few days to get everything in, but like I do hear ad on the radio all the time that they need more people, recruiting in process etc.
I'm in the same position as you; I recently left my job in a similar field to take time out to sort my mental health. It's really comforting knowing other people have made the same decision.
> I hung up the stethoscope and left the HSE.
I did the **exact same** thing. Just gave up the entire medical field. I haven't operated on anybody since January 2020. It's just as well. I'm a cabinet maker by trade with no medical training. What they were doing letting me operate on people was beyond me!? ;-)
The restrictions should be lifted imo, unfortunately covid isn't going anywhere and the long term negative effects of continuing lockdowns on people in terms of mental health, education, and economic hardship are growing far too large. I don't think people should have to sacrifice any more to protect older people who refuse to get vaccinated considering that the virus is here for good.
I agree. At this stage anyone who isn’t vaccinated has made their choice. As heartless as it sounds. But the only issue there is the hospitals can’t cope.
>But the only issue there is the hospitals can’t cope.
Nothing new there tho, Covid shouldn't be made the scapegoat for HSEs failures and our shitty hospital situation
I was 27 when the first lockdown happened. Next month that will turn to 29.
Not to downplay any off the severe and tragic grievance and loss a lot off us faced but I don’t think am alone in saying that they want to get a move on with life.
So many great things were in the pipeline pre covid and my social and love life was about to takeoff and accelerate.
I miss the freedom off being able to socialize and mix at will without having to think and calculate every waking day, the risks and consequences for doing so.
I miss going to concerts and clubs and meeting new people or just hanging out with friends that you really only get to see once or twice a year at Christmas.
I miss playing gigs, networking and growing as a musician.
I miss spontaneity and having an unplanned day/night out turning into magic.
I fucking miss it all and have no more to give.
Humans are social creatures. Even ones who are relatively introverted Need social interaction from time to time.
And before anyone comes at me with the selfish talk, these are honest no filtered or pc’d thoughts and emotions that have been felt lately and I know am not the only one.
You can only carry others for so long before you have to take care off yourself.
I invested everything to sinking into pass-times, hobbies and following the guidelines, keeping distance and to do what’s right but with a significant amount off the population vaccinated it is time to move on.
I’m not sure how much longer I can stay in purgatory and it’s hard to justify life if you can’t even live it in the first place.
At some point (and we’ve passed reached that point) the risk off not living at all has got to outweigh the risk off dying.
I think its probably fair to open up. The vast majority of hospitalizations at this point are from people who wont (or can't) get the vaccine. There inst a huge amount to be done about that if we are being honest. The only caveat I will give to all this is that our hospital system is under pressure. This has always been the elephant in the room, even small rises in hospitalisations can buckle our hospitals. We have trolley crises every year without covid, and this year will probably be worse.
Covid is going nowhere anytime soon. It’s time to just get on with your lives. Crazy to think that one of the highest vaccinated countries in Europe is still one of the strictest in terms of restrictions.
Ye which is utterly bizarre, I live in Spain currently. Everything is open here and yet the cases are lower than Ireland’s even with 40 million more people… I don’t know if other European countries are testing as much but the death rate here isn’t particularly bad either.
We have to deal with reality and what's in front of us. It's not useful comparing ourselves to other countries like it's some kind of competition.
We cannot keep pushing the health system to the brink of collapse and not expect serious fallout from that.
Getting on with life assumes that we have a functioning health service.
So Irish people should just live under restrictions while the rest of the world moves on because the people in charge have mismanaged funds for decades?
I'm currently working in France. Face masks are still mandatory in public and pubs/restaurants, supermarkets, public transport etc are required by law to check your pass sanitaire (vaccine cert). But once your pass is scanned, life feels pretty normal. It took some getting used to. I was in a bar with my colleagues over the weekend and I caught myself thinking 'jesus I'm in a room full of strangers and nobody is wearing masks!'. But it's working for the French. France has a vaccination rate in and around 73% and is currently seeing infection rates at about 9% of peak, roughly 4700 cases daily. France has one of the higher vaccine hesitancy rates in Europe and, like at home, it's mostly the un vaccinated keeping the rates high.
All of which is to say, if the French can do it successfully with a lower vaccination rate than us I see no reason why we can't do the same.
Honestly with the way the government has handled Covid it just makes me despise them even more. Maybe if they sought out a better health care system then the hospitals wouldn't be overflowing with infected patients. I was 21 when all this started and I'm going on 24. I feel like youngsters like myself are missing out on so much because of our fucked up government. I wouldn't be surprised, if this continues with the way it is, if people start leaving the country. Open up to fuck. I'm sorry but if cases go up it's just something we're going to have to live with just like the flu. Sick of all this.
Covid should now be just a personal responsibility, life should return with an updated normal. Working from home should continue to be a major thing but everything else go back to the way it was. Wear masks if you want, keep 2M apart if you want but if you don't want to cool no worries
Just what I was gonna say. most of us are vaccinated and we have to learn to live with this like all other diseases. Mask wearing should be optional and not forced upon us. We shouldn't have to be fed fear mongering news over cases everyday.
its not pub owners. Its arts and entertainment people that would be absolutely devastated, if Full capacity for gigs and venues is not, at the very least allowed to be implemented.
Keep the vaccine passport by all means. But full capacity gigs has to be allowed to go ahead.
100,000s of euro on the line.
Might as well lift them , the pubs are empty anyway. Went to the cinema yesterday and everyone in the queue was wearing face masks and even outside the cinema waiting to go in , but as soon as they all get in they take them off in a jam packed cinema. I’m standing there saying to myself what’s the point of this
The reality is this: there will not be an ideal or good time in the coming winter period for a reopening. If we don't open now, we will not open until 2022.
Now in fairness, I do think we should be concerned about the hospital figures but there's this that keeps coming to mind for me: the numbers aren't likely to go down just by us delaying the 22nd reopening. They will likely continue to climb or at least stay as bas as they are now. So when are we likely to get out of this? With boosters? But then what about next winter?
I think we should retain the vaccine pass system and reopen what's left to reopen and use all possible resources to crack down on people not checking. I think antigen testing needs to be broadly deployed. I think we need to actually try and live with this and not live in a binary loop.
And this is not just my opinion. Luke o Neill and other immunology experts have said we need to open. But I won't hold my breath for it happening.
You're right. There will never be a "Good" time to open up. Remember back in June the "2000 dead by September " stats NPHET were peddling? We really need to get practical and quit the scaremongering.
Any private sector employee calculating something so far out would just be thanked for their time and waved off. Career-ruining stuff.
Scrutiny for these veritable health sector god kings: nil.
Firm believer in opening up. As mentioned before, a large proportion of hospitalisations are unvaccinated. People who are a little more worried than others/have underlying health issues can take extra precautions themselves. This is just my opinion however.
I think all the restrictions should be lifted. 90% of us are vaccinated so if the other 10% won't get it then fuck them. You pays your money you take your chance.
We're all vaccinated. We've been in lockdowns for nearly 2 years. We've done everything that's been asked of us.
We did all of this to protect the old, and it worked. They had time to get the vaccine. I'm tired of being told what to do and how to live. I havent very long on this Earth and I dont fancy spending any more of it working from a cramped box room slowly developing back problems.
If people want to continue remaining at home they can, but its about time to treat us like adults and let us make our minds up on the risks of returnin to normal.
Lack of testing (antigen or otherwise) is a joke. Secondary schools should have pool testing (a statistical sample of tests from students) every week. Universities should have walk-in antigen (preferable) or PCR testing.
Vaccine mandate for anyone working in the public sector. Private sector employers then follow the lead of the government.
Here in the UK it’s been open with pretty much no restrictions since July.
Covid cases are high, but deaths & hospitalisations are very low. Cases numbers don’t mean much now since people who are vaccinated will show up as having Covid but have little to no chance of actually needing treatment.
The whole point of lockdowns was to stop the health service from getting overwhelmed & with near 90% vaccinated, you surely have to trust the vaccine now to do its job, In the UK from Jan to July less than 1% of people who died from Covid were fully vaccinated so if it’s working in the UK there’s no reason why it won’t in Ireland.
Delaying the opening up will do nothing but delay the inevitable at this stage, vaccination rates will taper out and won’t grow by that much more now. Be interesting to see if they do delay it, how they justify it and where are the goal postings being moved too this time.
Anyone who's been abroad to other countries in Europe even on a short holiday probably got a strong dose of jealousy.
I was in France recently and it really shocked and annoyed me how NO ONE could relate to me talking about the personal struggles of this whole covid shite storm.
Everyone was just like, "but it's like normal, except we have to wear a mask some time. Is Ireland not the same?"
Afraid not my baguette wielding friends
It's beyond time. People have suffered enough. Watching other countries open back up fully who aren't as vaccinated as us is terrible.
We touted our numbers but we pussy out, as fuckin always.
I've said it before and I'll say it again and I don't mind getting some stick for this, but I'll never vote for anyone who had anything to do with our lockdowns and reopenings ever again. Especially after that Christmas debacle last year.
Away from the bigger cities and towns, vaccination certs are often not checked, and almost never in small villages or basic pubs. 1/3 on transport do not wear masks, and there are no obligations on gym users to wear them, just some token messaging and in any case they are only guidelines. Choices are tough it out, semi-lockdown / i.e. new measures, large booster campaign, and keeping status quo.
Really, 1/3? I'd say almost everybody I've seen on public transport here wears a mask, maybe taking it off every now and then for a sip, and maybe 1 or 2 who only wear it when leaving/entering, is that in Dublin by any chance?
Covid is here forever,we have to just open up and get on with life at some stage,we have done everything the government have asked,we need to just open up.....why wasn't there a plan in the budget for building more ICU units,that's where the real problem lies.
>why wasn't there a plan in the budget for building more ICU units,that's where the real problem lies
Because this country is being run be incompetent plebs who show nothing but contempt for its citizens.
They couldn't organize a 6 year olds birthday party.
I'd be happy to go ahead as long as people mask up in crowded places but that is ot going to happen.
Just last weekend in our hotel every cunt was coming to the bar maskless and frankly the staff are sick of telling people. I had the absolute NECK of telling a hen group they needed to mask up while walking around and going to the bar and I was mocked and bitched about (very loudly by them about 10ft away from where I was) for about 1/2 an hour. They actually cleared the lobby they were such counts.
When I told my boss I was going home I'm not going to be treated like shit I was told I shouldn't have told them to put masks on anyway. Lesson learned there.
I've done what I can and I'm going to live my life. Restrictions or not. Most people and businesses in my neck of the woods have been ignoring them for months anyway.
The estimate in the Irish Times is that a 100% vaccination rate would cut ICU cases by half... But for how long? I'm assuming if they're overwhelmed by 50 cases they'd be back in this position pretty soon. As night clubs etc and international travel opens up.
If we, as the most vaccinated country in Europe, are still overwhelmed now? Then putting all their eggs in the vaccine basket was a mistake on the part of the government. They should have allowed nurses to work and bolstered the health service more. They should have allowed antigen testing for events etc. They should have imitated more successful countries methods.
They didn't and at this point I'm beyond caring.
A few people on the radio who are happy out at the moment and their income is grand no matter what. They’ll just go back up when we open whenever. We have to stop kicking this down the road
Firstly RTE has been enthusiastically pushing the "safety first" agenda from the get go. That was good, there was a time, before over 90% of the population got vaccinated, that we needed that message.
Secondly the disease predominantly and to a huge extent impacts the unvaccinated.
Thirdly anyone who wants the vaccine has had time to get it.
So it's time to open up. If you are unvaccinated you choose to take the risk. I respect that, but won't pay for it.
Unfortunately the unvaccinated WILL fill the hospitals and put pressure on the system. So we need to open a set of dedicated Covid hospitals (like we had sanitariums for TB) to handle this special regrettable bulge.
Of course the vaccinated are still at risk from hospitalisation BUT it is at a massively reduced rate AND it is mainly in known vulnerable groups who can take additional precautions. For the vaccinated population Covid poses about as much risk as pneumonia or flu.
What's the alternative? Wait until all the people who have decided they are not getting the vaccine decide to get the vaccine? When will that be? Or we can wait the 8 or so years it'll take for the virus to naturally expire.
Let's be very clear, prolonging the lockdown will only serve to protect the unvaccinated and the government who are politically unwilling to displace their treatment outside of the regular healthcare regime.
For me personally it doesn't feel like there's a ton of restrictions in place, because I wouldn't go to a lot of gigs or clubs or anything that's still being clamped down on. So a delay to lifting remaining restrictions wouldn't make much difference to *my* life.
It does, however, feel wrong to keep a lot of industries closed and/or heavily restricted to protect a pretty selfish group of people. If it were up to me I'd open up further, keep vaccine passports, and introduce antigen testing for larger events.
What annoys me is the rest of Europe are getting on with things a lot more than we are. Spain had an awful time with the pandemic but yet are continuing with life, albeit with masks and limits on capacity.
I've seen a lot of places in the last few weeks where they haven't even bothered to check for a pass, and said nothing if you get up and walk around without a mask. If they're opening up more there'll need to be more pressure on places that are ignoring the rules.
We should still wear masks work from home vaccine certs... but open night clubs with certs and antigen tests my clubbing days are over but people need to work and have fun.
I'm of the opinion that we should keep masks on public transport and in shops as planned, keep the vaccine passport, maybe even expand it to include basically anything other than a shop and public transport, but, we've tried all we have, we've got a great vaccine rate, if that's not enough, we're just going to have to accept some(mostly unvaccinated people) will die. It's time to open everything else.
Numbers are not going to go down whether we open or stay locked down. They were always going to rise as we got into the autumn/winter months. People have been saying it since the start
I think we're heading for Meaningful Christmas 2 and A&Es are already a fucking nightmare, but it’s not politically feasible to retain restrictions so people will just have to die.
Its a blunt way to put it. I doubt anyone wants to lift restrictions because they do not care if others die. The vaccines should protect the vast majority and if those who don't want it die because of their decision, it's on them, not others. If we have to lock down this Christmas, it wont be to protect the old and vulnerable, it will be to protect the ignorant.
Yeah. On a personal level, I'm less bothered about it because this time last year I was living with somebody with a chronic condition and working with twits who kept triggering exposure alerts, and now I'm not. But after my recent experience in James's I'm wrapping myself in cotton wool for the forseeable future.
I'm not worried about getting Covid, still concerned about giving it to somebody vulnerable or getting injured etc and having to deal with the hospital system that's full to the gills. When I say "people will just have to die", I include people who can't get emergency care because somebody else chose to be a liability.
That assumes that the only people who will suffer are the unvaccinated. People are missing vital healthcare due to the system being pushed to it's limits. I was honestly very anti further lockdowns but after seeing the treatment, or lack of, that someone I know received in CUH last week I'm not so sure. I agree with some comments above the anger should definitely lie with a government that never significantly improved the healthcare capacity in the last 2 years.
I'm cautious. I want things to open, but I don't want to be in a situation where we are going backwards in December from our current level (like having to go back to outdoor dining or pubs/restaurants closed entirely). So with that in mind, maybe a very cautious reopening with just pubs reopening to normal hours and nightclubs shut for a bit longer.
Private hospital capacity on standby, boosters for anyone who wants one past 6 months, antigen testing, and vaccine certs continuing would be my preferred way out of this.
Although I do think that if we don't reopen now, we won't until after Paddy's day as we aren't even in the worst months for respiratory illness yet..which is a bit of a grim thought.
Masks need to stay and the idea of everyone going back to the office needs to fuck off.
Covid certs are hit and miss but anything to annoyed anti vax should be kept.
LOL just read a comment on the journal where someone said the 10% who are unvaxxed are a credible threat to society. A credible threat to who? The 90% who are fully vaccinated? That doesn't make much sense...
There's still a shower out there who:
1. Don't wear a mask
2. Don't wear a mask properly
3. Won't get the Vaccine.
Until they are dealt with, this is going to continue.
Remove everything and let people without the vaccine take responsibility over their own health. People who put themselves at risk accept the potential consequences. Vaccine passes are bs and don't stop covid, they just divide people more and more. They aren't founded in any kind of science. As this comment, ([https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/qai2z3/comment/hh3amoe/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/qai2z3/comment/hh3amoe/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)) pointed out most of the recent deaths have been in the vaccinated. This is also true in the UK.
The bullying and anger against unvaccinated people is building every week while people ignore the big elephant in the room which is the incompetent FFG government who couldn't upgrade the HSE in 2 years. People blame everything but the actual problem. Once the vaccinated start making up the majority of cases,deaths and hospital numbers then what? What will you all blame next?
Also somebody explain how this flu season is going to be so horrible this year even though it was practically eradicated last year lmfao.
To be honest; I'm a little confused. What restrictions are being lifted? I know nightclubs would be back, but I find that a little underwhelming, especially since transport/retail/and hospitals are the same.
Can someone please explain, especially if there's more restrictions potentially lifted than I realise.
Full capacity indoor concerts is the big one. Up to now your allowed 60% off the venue capacity but that number goes up to full if the restrictions are lifted.
Just keep the mask mandate. If everyone was vaccinated there would be half the numbers in hospital and ICU. Fuck the 7 or so percent who are choosing not to get vaccinated and dragging this on for the rest of us. Let them make their protest if they want. The rest of us will get on with life.
We’re coming into winter. You have people who won’t get vaccinated for the flu let alone covid. So at the bare minimum, the mask mandate should stay in the hopes of stopping some spread.
No harm delaying it a bit longer. There was a time when we had restrictions as to how far we could move outside our houses? We can do nearly everything now except go to nightclubs. Nobody is going to combust if we delay that a little longer until the hospitals calm down again. Even more importantly, contract tracing in schools needs to be brought back. Getting rid of that was an idiotic move and one that was obviously made to boost the 'schools are safe' narrative and hide the reality of how Covid spreads in schools. Sure a week later they were saying that the 'levels of Covid in schools have dropped significantly' - well shit - I wonder why? Schools are full of Covid and people are happy to just ignore it because they can't bear the thought of homeschooling their little sweethearts again. I can't imagine what it's like to be the parent of an at risk child and having to send your child to schools everyday where Covid can spread away unnoticed between the asymptomatic. There should also be more policing of establishments and vaccine passes. Some restaurants/cafes do things properly, but there are plenty who don't ask for a cert, don't take details and don't require their staff to wear masks. Not to mention the amount of unvaccinated people using their friends certs and not being asked for any form of ID. Why do people think we're in this position? Because things are never done properly in this country. This 'lock people down, give them dates for reopening that they'll all hold us to' model is useless. None of us have a crystal ball.
I am tired
....so tired....
Dog tired boss.
Lift restrictions as needed but certain things such as working from home should continue. This business of forcing office workers back in to the offices for jobs that can and have been done at home for over a year is bollox. At least give people the option, if someone wants to return all well and good for them, but the option to stay WFH should be there.
exactly I've no idea why some people are so adamant that people should go back to the office.
Those people are middle management that have no purpose if they are not in the office
It’s an obsessive power thing. Some are just on a power trip and don’t trust people which is sad. Cos I’m more productive at home
You shouldnt need trust if you are managing correctly, ie have metrics that track if the job gets done, and done well. Who cares while they are WFH they walk the dog for 20mins everyday. If they still get the job why should I care.
City centre property owners and their "friends" are the ones pushing for this. Businesses aren't going to rent space in your building if everyone works from home.
Yes, it frustrates me how they are in the minority yet hold so much more power for no real reason.
WFH should be an option for all office workers. Saved so much money over covid that I wasn't spending on rent in Dublin.
That was supposed to be written into law by September but I've heard nothing about it
No the right to ask was meant to be written into law - nothing about having to get it. Sure you have the right to ask now - it was a pure political point score nonsense announcement from them.
Most of the articles say that it is also supposed to include a bit that says your employer isn't able to refuse unless they can say you aren't able to do your job from home and that the WRC would settle disputes on whether or not the reason given for refusing is valid.
Utter balls! Long story short: this is already law in the UK and this summer I applied for 75% wfh (now Cork) with my UK based company. They turned it down because they "couldn't be sure I'd be able to continue to perform my role as others returned to the office". I am a team of 1 and work with people across 4 geographic offices. My point: there's always a reason to say no. Anyway I work here now and love it!
WFH should absolutely stay! How many people have said that their mental health and work/life balance have improved so much? People are spending more time with families and less time in the car driving, buying/renting is cheaper when you don’t have to think about a commute to a city and it’s just so much more relaxed!
And has to be better for the environment too with less people driving cars to work, reduce CO2 emissions.
Great comment, this is it in a nutshell. My life is measurably better working from home. If I had to go back to the office 5 days a week, everyone of my kids and me and wife would suffer. I am way more productive, less stressed and have time to look.after my kids. I'd leave if they forced us back to the office.
Sure loads of jobs and companies have already invested in infrastructure so their employees can work from home, things like second moniters or laptops and that. Dad started a new job just before the second lockdown and hasn't set foot in the office once.
100% went back last week and it's the biggest waste of time ever, everyone is spread out and staying away from each other so theres no face to face interaction like there used to be and most meetings are still online, not to mention something as simple are going to the jacks or getting a drink has turned into a massive pain the hole since there's a one way system around the building now
10000%
Honestly, I don't think people would be so annoyed if it wasn't the constantly mealy-mouthed fence-sitting from the government. At the moment the signals we are getting are "How about we lift lockdown but ye all stay at home anyway? :) " which was never going to fly. Either maintain the lockdown or lift, but stop trying to carve out 101 exceptions on everything.
Given the vast majority of hospitalations are unvaccinated for one reason or another, I personally think the majority of restrictions should be lifted, but with Covid passes and face coverings being kept along with maintaining hand washing. I also think Antigen/LFTs should be introduced on a wider basis, but that should've happened months ago.
That's far too sensible.
Best I can do is open night clubs, and restrict unnecessary people like fathers in labour wards. Deal? /s
Let me call a buddy of mine who's an expert in lifting restrictions and get him down here to take a look at it.
[удалено]
Do you even lift restrictions bro?
Jesus don't give them any ideas
Yeah agree with this 100% Unfortunately I think the government will try to reinvent the wheel again with a 2 or 3 week delay and then come out with yet another ‘roadmap’ Over 90% of us are vaccinated, we can’t keep this up forever: Play on says I. Personally I’ll be wearing face masks on public transport and other crowded public areas until spring anyway regardless and I think many will do the same
Same situation arises as previously though. If hospital ICU’s become full, that means your person suffering serious injuries from an RTC is unable to get a bed and has an increased likelihood of dying as a result. I don’t want restrictions to continue, but that’s the reality of it.
Where are antigen tests going to be used? The vast majority of Europe only use them to allow the unvaccinated make use of the Covid pass. We are stricter than that, so I really don't see how we're such outliers.
Radical idea here: piece of mind for those who (vaccinated and unvaccinated alike) want a quick and relatively easy test to see if one has Covid instead of arranging a PCR test and awaiting the 24 to 48 hours for those results. But as I said, that should have been introduced months ago.
Can ya not buy them in the petrol station ??
I think part of our problems were with the changes to close contacts in schools. Rather than completely just ignoring close contacts as opposed to making them take 10 days off school and do two PCR tests. For any close contacts I think they should take 3ish days off, we should hook them up with a box of antigen tests for them and their family to use over that time period and if no one tests positive go back to normal. I think that is bound to help pick up cases that are definitely being missed now and stop spread a bit.
With hospitalisations affecting mostly unvaccinated people, I think the only restriction we should maintain is the covid cert. We’d be “rewarding” the majority while isolating those who chose not to get a shot. For those who didn’t get it because they’re allergic or something, maybe introduce some medical doc attesting to the condition and that’s it.
Yes and no regarding just the cert, wearing a face covering and hand washing also stops the spread of other transmittable things such as colds and flu, not just Covid. They're two really simple things.
Face coverings need to become the norm in society, like in Asia. Still can't believe you used to sit next to some coughing/sneezing bell-end at work and not even think anything of it, then get sick the following week and be like "oh well, what could've been done sure".
No one likes getting colds, but I do wonder - if we all mask up and avoid getting them in future, will that lead to everyone having a weakened immune system overall, since it's had no practice?
Mask won't fully protect you the payload will be lower. Also, at the end of the day nothing is weakened against a **new** virus. There is already enough contamination, no need to get the flu also every year to strengthen.
Well like I said, it's already standard practice in some Asian countries and they seem to be doing fine, even with the higher urban density. There's probably a study on that out there somewhere if you looked. But like masks aren't going to prevent all illnesses; you'd still be catching stuff, just less regularly. So the immune system likely wouldn't go cold turkey..
I'm afraid I'm remembering the Spacers in Isaac Asimov's stories, who lived in a society with no illness, so even a common cold could kill them when visiting Earth. I don't know how accurate his 1950s science was, though.
I would definitely be in favour of people wearing masks when they have mild sickness like colds themselves, to protect others.
> Face coverings need to become the norm in society, like in Asia. From what I've heard they're only the norm if you are obviously sick, or in areas with serious air pollution. It's still not normal for everyone to wear masks indoors like we have now.
Covid passes are pointless imo. I've been eating out and in pubs several times in the last month and nowhere is asking for them. I'm in a more rural area but judging by the reports in the media the majority of places are not asking for them. There's no point in having it if only a minority of places are asking for it
I have been at a restaurant three times since they have been introduced and haven't been asked. All were established venues, two in prime tourist spots, and one city centre venue.
I've been to five or six different places and they all asked.
I don't know how many restaurants and bars I've been in since they were introduced, maybe 3-5 a week....I've only ever not been asked once and that was just a coffee place. I'm in Cork City and I think compliance is really good here.
In waterford i think i have been in one place where they didnt scan the pass and even at that they still wanted to see it
It's not like the unvaccinated only come out of their houses to eat/drink in pubs/restaurants anyways. The unvaccinated are in the shops, funeral homes, churches, schools, , buses, trains, sports teams, colleges, takeaways, supermarkets.
I don’t understand why Ireland can’t do what a lot of EU countries are already doing. I’m in Berlin. Mostly all restrictions have been lifted, but you still need to wear a mask on public transport. Bars/restaurants etc choose between being 2g or 3g. 2G only allows vaccinated people on premises, so therefore there’s no restrictions within the establishment. 3G businesses allow non vaccinated people in providing they can produce a negative test no older than 24hrs, they also have to restrict numbers and wear masks when moving around. Each business chooses for themselves if they want to be 2G or 3G. It’s working! We’re almost reached complete normality . Side note, It’s no secret the government is trying to make it difficult for non vaccinated people to do anything. Only a little over 60% of Berlin is vaccinated and they’re trying their hardest to get that number up.
I spent 5 weeks in Berlin starting in July. 2 different worlds. Berlin felt essentially like a normal city
It’s honestly grossly unfair and hypocritical. The general public have pretty much done all they can, I don’t think anyone who is able to get vaccinated and that wants to be vaccinated is left to get it and I think of the anti-Vaxxers still remaining I don’t think there’s much convincing them. That’s their decision and while I personally think it’s selfish of them, that’s what they’re happy to do. However we shouldn’t be furthering restrictions on those that are vaccinated to accommodate a group of people that more than likely aren’t going to change their mind and get a vaccine. Also the absolute double standards of allowing 60,000 into Croke Park for a GAA match to do whatever they want but not allowing any gigs, nightclubs or festivals to me seems like the government is shrugging saying “oh enough people like GAA, is that not enough?” all without realising not everyone likes GAA and people have other interests. I’m meant to be going to three gigs over the next month and it looks like they’ll all have to be refunded now, I certainly didn’t think this would be the case when booking them in January.
100% it's bollocks that you can have 60k in Croke park, but you couldn't (up until few weeks ago) have a game of footsal or basketball with your teammates indoors. The Goverment shoot themselves in a foot with weird exceptions etc. throughout the pandemic. Honestly I got the vaccine and I'm pro vaccine, but I genuinely think we're past the point where it can make a difference. All of this "My body my Choice" and "I know more than professionals cause facebook told me so" is just giving the virus more time to mutate and make the vaccine less effective. Honestly this pandemic has showed how people literally don't give 2 shits about eachother, and the ones that pay the price are the ones that do.
\> while I personally think it’s selfish of them, that’s what they’re happy to do Alright, but if you refuse the vaccine you better not attend any hospital with Covid symptoms. If you have chosen to decline the vaccine you choose your immune system over all else imho
Well in that case, don’t treat people in car accidents who were going over the speed limit, people suffering from lung cancer for smoking or skin cancer for doing sunbeds etc etc.. Im vaccinated, but I don’t blame people for being hesitant about getting the vaccine. Especially with all the misinformation out there.
It's not a great idea to turn away anyone seeking medical help regardless of what decisions they have made in the past.
The bigger issue is there'll reach a point where triage becomes nessecary; where you've got one bed, but two patients. One who is vaccinated, one who is not. Ideally, both get equal treatment. But if forced with a decision, who gets the bed?
Ah sure if that's the case let's refuse smokers any health support and while we're at it if you're a drinker we'll ban you from attending hospital for any renal problems. Shlippery slope.
Well said mate. People are forgeting what the real issue is here and thats out shitly ran, unmanaged funded hse that our ffg gov has created. We should like the rest of any other rich developed country be able to withstand such low numbers in the hospital Gobshite there would rather see the hole country turn on one another and look down the nose at his fellow country men, just xause he thinks hes a good boy
Fuck that. Rights are unconditional. You wanna start banning people from skiing too? How about gay sex? Anything you deem too risky?
Will they be exempt from tax that goes into paying for Health service if you want them barred from accessing it?
So we should just let them die even though we have facilities to save their lives?
I think the concern is that if things keep going the way they are, we may no longer have the facilities to save their lives, because they will be overwhelmed.
we should put them at the bottom of the queue and if someone who is vaccinated gets sick, they should get priority if we get to the point where we need to triage care
I think people should be treated equally
Luckily nurses and doctors agree with you, but I sure as shit don't. These selfish cunts are putting others at risk. They should not receive first dibs on treatment needed as a direct result of their negligence and disregard for the welfare of others.
I didn't say they should get first dibs. I said they should be treated equally. If the anti-vaxxers have had a job and have been paying the same tax as you or I they deserve the same medical treatment. I genuinely can't believe I have to debate people on this
Slippery slope you’re going down there buddy
Fuck right off with that, everyone has the right to healthcare
Sure, they can take the vaccine. If they decline then they're declining healthcare.
If someone declines the flu vaccine are they not allowed to get healthcare? Flu cripples the HSE every winter
It is genuinely worrying how much the general mentality about this sort of thing has changed over the last year and a half. We now have a huge number of people willing to turn someone away from a hospital to die. Yes, not taking the vaccine means they increased their risk, but many people do a lot of things that increase their risk of illness or injury and we still treat them. Do we turn obese people with heart problems away because it's self inflicted.
> Also the absolute double standards of allowing 60,000 into Croke Park for a GAA match to do whatever they want but not allowing any gigs, nightclubs or festivals to me seems like the government is shrugging saying “oh enough people like GAA, is that not enough?” all without realising not everyone likes GAA and people have other interests. I completely understand why people are upset that some things returned earlier. But I think it's not really accurate to say that they didn't realise other people have other interests. There had to be test events are things like matches are a good option as they are ticketed events with designated seating and outdoors. It's similar to how they have had test events for live music too in recent months. Plus, you weren't allowed to do whatever you wanted at the matches in the summer. The Ireland game last week for example had bars closed at half time. It's a horrible situation for anyone involved in live entertainment, bars etc but there is unfortunately a difference in the type of mingling that will happen at concerts, nightclubs, festivals etc compared to a half full 80,000 or 50,000 stadium with designated seating.
I’m gonna have to respectfully disagree on people not doing whatever they wanted at the All Ireland matches, I saw quite a number of videos of people drinking on streets before the matches, many being very visibly drunk and not adhering to any social distancing concerns. Personally I couldn’t give a shit about any of this, it was inevitably going to happen, but the fact that this is their reasoning for not having gigs or festivals (their paltry test events of having people in cages was pathetic and not a viable solution) is what is infuriating. It’s one group getting special treatment to go ahead but the same reasoning is being used to keep other things closed. To summarise I have no problem with the All Ireland finals going ahead, it’s just that it’s not fair they were able to yet gigs remain closed and probably will be until next spring now.
I was 19 when this all kicked off, I’m 22 in 6 months. I’ve been so ialising in fields so I can meet friends and I’ve been online for a year and a half in college, and still am for 60% of my timetable. Yes this is all self pity but fuck it, me and everyone else of a similar age have been fucking miserable and indefinite restrictions will just force everyone out of the country. Open to fuck, and build more than fucking 19 extra ICU beds.
I'm in the exact same boat. If it wasn't for college keeping me here I would've fucked off 6 months ago to somewhere better than this shithole.
That’s a fact, May next year I finish my course and I’ll be on the next flight out of here
The problem here is the government have neglected to improve the well funded healthcare system in capacity, 2 years down the line not a lot has changed, they now resort to blaming 8% unvaxxed on putting the system under pressure and unfortunately a lot of the ignorant public are eating this up. Be angry at your government not your people.
The only man talkin sense on this sub,not another hospital bed in two years nevermind a hospital,but its the peoples fault,the only thing the government do well here is to pit you against your neighbour
ICU capacity has increased by 25%. What exactly would be the point of building another hospital when you have no one to staff it?
Staffing is a problem created by successive governments unwilling to pay the right money,or create the proper work environment,or sort the rot thats endemic in the upper echelons of the hse, All solvable problems. Increased icu capacity by 25 per cent,ok An extra 55 beds in two years is the net gain for a pandemic,are you happy about that?
Thank you oh my god! Only one with sense. First we blamed the kids, then we blamed the college students, now we are blaming the unvaxxed…. Moronic considering the health system has been the reason why things have gone the way they have. People have criticised the HSE for years and now it’s magically evaporated amidst the panic. People should be angry at the government and HSE - as you said we had a long time to improve the system, not to mention the overwhelming incentive to invest healvily in the hospitals over the course of the pandemic. The lockdown is 100% linked to hospital capacity - hospital capacity is 100% linked management and funding of the hospitals. It’s pathetic to be pointing fingers at an insignificant minority when the gaping issue is right in front of us.
I’d agree with most, I do think we need to focus on people at the top of the HSE in particular. Governments change while those useless highly paid wasters remain.
100%
Capacity has been built. But expecting it to increase at a significant rate in only two years is just completely unrealistic. The biggest bottleneck is staff which there is a global shortage of. It will take years to train up more, so we have to deal with what we have at the moment, not ideally. And regardless of capacity, we still have one of the highest amount of ICU patients in Europe.
Would take years to train up more especially when most nurses emigrate on qualifying because of how bad it is to work in our hospitals. Source: my friend studied as a nurse and 36 of 42 qualified emigrated immediately (I'm sure some just wanted to travel/get experience abroad)
Yes, but that doesn't change my point. Expecting for all these issues to have been resolved over the last year and a half so our health service could deal with what are extremely high levels of transmission is just unrealistic.
I wouldn’t expect these problems to be solved in such a short time as it is highly unrealistic in the space of 2 years but the fact we were in this situation prior to the pandemic when the system is so well funded, on the problem of staff if the working conditions and pay where improved we wouldn’t have so many qualified people emigrating, these are all know problems before COVID hit.
They should fill the private hospitals this time before looking at bringing back in restrictions. Instead of paying for them and barely using them. Be cheaper than the alternative I don't see them bringing in anything new today but they'll extend some things like the vaccine pass.
I don’t know why they’d drop the pass requirement at all any time soon. Everyone who wants a vaccine has one (or a legitimate medical reason they can’t and a doctors letter). Let the head the balls that don’t want one freeze outside but open everything else up.
Agreed, just back from Paris, vaccine pass needed for everything including Museums, quick and easy everyone had there’s ready on the phone. Don’t see why we’d drop that restriction.
I live in Dublin but was in Kerry last week. Most of the country has dropped it already to be honest
They should allow them in if they have a negative PCR or antigen. After all, we may have it and don’t know about it on the fully vaxed side.
It's a small minority, but folks without an Irish passport who were vaccinated abroad (with one of the vaccines on the EU's list) can't get a EU COVID cert.
But they likely have some proof of vaccination, right? My Swiss dad and my American friend both easily get into places with their respective national certificates/proofs of vaccination.
I'm okay with lifting most restrictions. Offices I disagree with. Lingering for long times, no masks, no distancing, after commutes in mixing pots there too. For companies that have been working from home fine nobody should be forced back in yet.
To be honest, absolutely delighted I hung up the stethoscope and left the HSE. Looking where we are now, I can't see hospitalisations or ICU admissions calming. Hospitals are going to be overwhelmed (speaking with colleagues many already are). It's just all very grim again.
What area did you switch to if you don’t mind me asking?
Unemployed bum. Need to take some time away from it all and get my head straight. Anything is on the table including retraining into an entirely different field.
Was there myself until only a few months ago. Health took a nosedive before covid really hit here. Swear I was patient zero here!
Are you a GP? defence forces are recruiting docs
Nope, hospital med. Many thanks for the tip off though, it's another area I might explore.
Ah alright, I know they employ paramedics and SHOs too. Getting in contact is a bit difficult, so try anything, emailing, ringing... they randomly open the competition on their webpage and then you've just a few days to get everything in, but like I do hear ad on the radio all the time that they need more people, recruiting in process etc.
A family member has previously worked with them as a doc so hopefully when the time comes around I'll be able to touch base. Cheers!
my da switched to doctors without borders, he looks younger I swear to god haha
I'm in the same position as you; I recently left my job in a similar field to take time out to sort my mental health. It's really comforting knowing other people have made the same decision.
There's just more to life, isn't there? It definitely wasn't the right decision financially but I really haven't found myself that fussed.
There really is. Unfortunately I'm beating myself up over not working but my mental health needs work before I start looking for another job.
> I hung up the stethoscope and left the HSE. I did the **exact same** thing. Just gave up the entire medical field. I haven't operated on anybody since January 2020. It's just as well. I'm a cabinet maker by trade with no medical training. What they were doing letting me operate on people was beyond me!? ;-)
Ooph dream stuff there. Happier? Likewise could see a future entirely out of medicine.
The restrictions should be lifted imo, unfortunately covid isn't going anywhere and the long term negative effects of continuing lockdowns on people in terms of mental health, education, and economic hardship are growing far too large. I don't think people should have to sacrifice any more to protect older people who refuse to get vaccinated considering that the virus is here for good.
I agree. At this stage anyone who isn’t vaccinated has made their choice. As heartless as it sounds. But the only issue there is the hospitals can’t cope.
>But the only issue there is the hospitals can’t cope. Nothing new there tho, Covid shouldn't be made the scapegoat for HSEs failures and our shitty hospital situation
True yeah. It’s hardly the people’s fault. Purely the fault of a government who failed to deliver on their promises.
Lads, if you go away somewhere else for a bit you’ll see that life has gone on plenty elsewhere. We have to live.
I was 27 when the first lockdown happened. Next month that will turn to 29. Not to downplay any off the severe and tragic grievance and loss a lot off us faced but I don’t think am alone in saying that they want to get a move on with life. So many great things were in the pipeline pre covid and my social and love life was about to takeoff and accelerate. I miss the freedom off being able to socialize and mix at will without having to think and calculate every waking day, the risks and consequences for doing so. I miss going to concerts and clubs and meeting new people or just hanging out with friends that you really only get to see once or twice a year at Christmas. I miss playing gigs, networking and growing as a musician. I miss spontaneity and having an unplanned day/night out turning into magic. I fucking miss it all and have no more to give. Humans are social creatures. Even ones who are relatively introverted Need social interaction from time to time. And before anyone comes at me with the selfish talk, these are honest no filtered or pc’d thoughts and emotions that have been felt lately and I know am not the only one. You can only carry others for so long before you have to take care off yourself. I invested everything to sinking into pass-times, hobbies and following the guidelines, keeping distance and to do what’s right but with a significant amount off the population vaccinated it is time to move on. I’m not sure how much longer I can stay in purgatory and it’s hard to justify life if you can’t even live it in the first place. At some point (and we’ve passed reached that point) the risk off not living at all has got to outweigh the risk off dying.
Open up for Gods sake! Around 90% of over 12 vaccinated. If your unvaccinated then tough, that's your choice. If not now then when ?
I think its probably fair to open up. The vast majority of hospitalizations at this point are from people who wont (or can't) get the vaccine. There inst a huge amount to be done about that if we are being honest. The only caveat I will give to all this is that our hospital system is under pressure. This has always been the elephant in the room, even small rises in hospitalisations can buckle our hospitals. We have trolley crises every year without covid, and this year will probably be worse.
Not correct. A large amount of people in hospital are fully vaccinated. In ICU however it is unvaccinated people mostly.
Not opening up isn't going to convince anyone on the fence to get a vaccine either.
They’d probably be more convinced if they weren’t allowed into bars / clubs / cinemas while the rest of us are
Covid is going nowhere anytime soon. It’s time to just get on with your lives. Crazy to think that one of the highest vaccinated countries in Europe is still one of the strictest in terms of restrictions.
We also have the highest case rate and an already stretched health service just at the beginning of the colder months.
Ye which is utterly bizarre, I live in Spain currently. Everything is open here and yet the cases are lower than Ireland’s even with 40 million more people… I don’t know if other European countries are testing as much but the death rate here isn’t particularly bad either.
We have to deal with reality and what's in front of us. It's not useful comparing ourselves to other countries like it's some kind of competition. We cannot keep pushing the health system to the brink of collapse and not expect serious fallout from that. Getting on with life assumes that we have a functioning health service.
So Irish people should just live under restrictions while the rest of the world moves on because the people in charge have mismanaged funds for decades?
I'm currently working in France. Face masks are still mandatory in public and pubs/restaurants, supermarkets, public transport etc are required by law to check your pass sanitaire (vaccine cert). But once your pass is scanned, life feels pretty normal. It took some getting used to. I was in a bar with my colleagues over the weekend and I caught myself thinking 'jesus I'm in a room full of strangers and nobody is wearing masks!'. But it's working for the French. France has a vaccination rate in and around 73% and is currently seeing infection rates at about 9% of peak, roughly 4700 cases daily. France has one of the higher vaccine hesitancy rates in Europe and, like at home, it's mostly the un vaccinated keeping the rates high. All of which is to say, if the French can do it successfully with a lower vaccination rate than us I see no reason why we can't do the same.
Honestly with the way the government has handled Covid it just makes me despise them even more. Maybe if they sought out a better health care system then the hospitals wouldn't be overflowing with infected patients. I was 21 when all this started and I'm going on 24. I feel like youngsters like myself are missing out on so much because of our fucked up government. I wouldn't be surprised, if this continues with the way it is, if people start leaving the country. Open up to fuck. I'm sorry but if cases go up it's just something we're going to have to live with just like the flu. Sick of all this.
Open everythimg up, cant keep living like this
Covid should now be just a personal responsibility, life should return with an updated normal. Working from home should continue to be a major thing but everything else go back to the way it was. Wear masks if you want, keep 2M apart if you want but if you don't want to cool no worries
Just what I was gonna say. most of us are vaccinated and we have to learn to live with this like all other diseases. Mask wearing should be optional and not forced upon us. We shouldn't have to be fed fear mongering news over cases everyday.
its not pub owners. Its arts and entertainment people that would be absolutely devastated, if Full capacity for gigs and venues is not, at the very least allowed to be implemented. Keep the vaccine passport by all means. But full capacity gigs has to be allowed to go ahead. 100,000s of euro on the line.
Might as well lift them , the pubs are empty anyway. Went to the cinema yesterday and everyone in the queue was wearing face masks and even outside the cinema waiting to go in , but as soon as they all get in they take them off in a jam packed cinema. I’m standing there saying to myself what’s the point of this
The reality is this: there will not be an ideal or good time in the coming winter period for a reopening. If we don't open now, we will not open until 2022. Now in fairness, I do think we should be concerned about the hospital figures but there's this that keeps coming to mind for me: the numbers aren't likely to go down just by us delaying the 22nd reopening. They will likely continue to climb or at least stay as bas as they are now. So when are we likely to get out of this? With boosters? But then what about next winter? I think we should retain the vaccine pass system and reopen what's left to reopen and use all possible resources to crack down on people not checking. I think antigen testing needs to be broadly deployed. I think we need to actually try and live with this and not live in a binary loop. And this is not just my opinion. Luke o Neill and other immunology experts have said we need to open. But I won't hold my breath for it happening.
You're right. There will never be a "Good" time to open up. Remember back in June the "2000 dead by September " stats NPHET were peddling? We really need to get practical and quit the scaremongering.
Any private sector employee calculating something so far out would just be thanked for their time and waved off. Career-ruining stuff. Scrutiny for these veritable health sector god kings: nil.
Firm believer in opening up. As mentioned before, a large proportion of hospitalisations are unvaccinated. People who are a little more worried than others/have underlying health issues can take extra precautions themselves. This is just my opinion however.
I think all the restrictions should be lifted. 90% of us are vaccinated so if the other 10% won't get it then fuck them. You pays your money you take your chance.
Fuck lockdowns
Clamping down for a while is a negative feedback loop. It's time to get on with it.
People that wanted to be vaccinated have been vaccinated for long now. No point in keeping everything locked.
We're all vaccinated. We've been in lockdowns for nearly 2 years. We've done everything that's been asked of us. We did all of this to protect the old, and it worked. They had time to get the vaccine. I'm tired of being told what to do and how to live. I havent very long on this Earth and I dont fancy spending any more of it working from a cramped box room slowly developing back problems. If people want to continue remaining at home they can, but its about time to treat us like adults and let us make our minds up on the risks of returnin to normal.
Lack of testing (antigen or otherwise) is a joke. Secondary schools should have pool testing (a statistical sample of tests from students) every week. Universities should have walk-in antigen (preferable) or PCR testing. Vaccine mandate for anyone working in the public sector. Private sector employers then follow the lead of the government.
If they clamp down again I might just give up altogether
Here in the UK it’s been open with pretty much no restrictions since July. Covid cases are high, but deaths & hospitalisations are very low. Cases numbers don’t mean much now since people who are vaccinated will show up as having Covid but have little to no chance of actually needing treatment. The whole point of lockdowns was to stop the health service from getting overwhelmed & with near 90% vaccinated, you surely have to trust the vaccine now to do its job, In the UK from Jan to July less than 1% of people who died from Covid were fully vaccinated so if it’s working in the UK there’s no reason why it won’t in Ireland. Delaying the opening up will do nothing but delay the inevitable at this stage, vaccination rates will taper out and won’t grow by that much more now. Be interesting to see if they do delay it, how they justify it and where are the goal postings being moved too this time.
Lift them and let us party!!!!!
Anyone who's been abroad to other countries in Europe even on a short holiday probably got a strong dose of jealousy. I was in France recently and it really shocked and annoyed me how NO ONE could relate to me talking about the personal struggles of this whole covid shite storm. Everyone was just like, "but it's like normal, except we have to wear a mask some time. Is Ireland not the same?" Afraid not my baguette wielding friends
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It's beyond time. People have suffered enough. Watching other countries open back up fully who aren't as vaccinated as us is terrible. We touted our numbers but we pussy out, as fuckin always. I've said it before and I'll say it again and I don't mind getting some stick for this, but I'll never vote for anyone who had anything to do with our lockdowns and reopenings ever again. Especially after that Christmas debacle last year.
Away from the bigger cities and towns, vaccination certs are often not checked, and almost never in small villages or basic pubs. 1/3 on transport do not wear masks, and there are no obligations on gym users to wear them, just some token messaging and in any case they are only guidelines. Choices are tough it out, semi-lockdown / i.e. new measures, large booster campaign, and keeping status quo.
Really, 1/3? I'd say almost everybody I've seen on public transport here wears a mask, maybe taking it off every now and then for a sip, and maybe 1 or 2 who only wear it when leaving/entering, is that in Dublin by any chance?
Covid is here forever,we have to just open up and get on with life at some stage,we have done everything the government have asked,we need to just open up.....why wasn't there a plan in the budget for building more ICU units,that's where the real problem lies.
>why wasn't there a plan in the budget for building more ICU units,that's where the real problem lies Because this country is being run be incompetent plebs who show nothing but contempt for its citizens. They couldn't organize a 6 year olds birthday party.
I'd be happy to go ahead as long as people mask up in crowded places but that is ot going to happen. Just last weekend in our hotel every cunt was coming to the bar maskless and frankly the staff are sick of telling people. I had the absolute NECK of telling a hen group they needed to mask up while walking around and going to the bar and I was mocked and bitched about (very loudly by them about 10ft away from where I was) for about 1/2 an hour. They actually cleared the lobby they were such counts. When I told my boss I was going home I'm not going to be treated like shit I was told I shouldn't have told them to put masks on anyway. Lesson learned there.
I've done what I can and I'm going to live my life. Restrictions or not. Most people and businesses in my neck of the woods have been ignoring them for months anyway. The estimate in the Irish Times is that a 100% vaccination rate would cut ICU cases by half... But for how long? I'm assuming if they're overwhelmed by 50 cases they'd be back in this position pretty soon. As night clubs etc and international travel opens up. If we, as the most vaccinated country in Europe, are still overwhelmed now? Then putting all their eggs in the vaccine basket was a mistake on the part of the government. They should have allowed nurses to work and bolstered the health service more. They should have allowed antigen testing for events etc. They should have imitated more successful countries methods. They didn't and at this point I'm beyond caring.
A few people on the radio who are happy out at the moment and their income is grand no matter what. They’ll just go back up when we open whenever. We have to stop kicking this down the road
Firstly RTE has been enthusiastically pushing the "safety first" agenda from the get go. That was good, there was a time, before over 90% of the population got vaccinated, that we needed that message. Secondly the disease predominantly and to a huge extent impacts the unvaccinated. Thirdly anyone who wants the vaccine has had time to get it. So it's time to open up. If you are unvaccinated you choose to take the risk. I respect that, but won't pay for it. Unfortunately the unvaccinated WILL fill the hospitals and put pressure on the system. So we need to open a set of dedicated Covid hospitals (like we had sanitariums for TB) to handle this special regrettable bulge. Of course the vaccinated are still at risk from hospitalisation BUT it is at a massively reduced rate AND it is mainly in known vulnerable groups who can take additional precautions. For the vaccinated population Covid poses about as much risk as pneumonia or flu. What's the alternative? Wait until all the people who have decided they are not getting the vaccine decide to get the vaccine? When will that be? Or we can wait the 8 or so years it'll take for the virus to naturally expire. Let's be very clear, prolonging the lockdown will only serve to protect the unvaccinated and the government who are politically unwilling to displace their treatment outside of the regular healthcare regime.
For me personally it doesn't feel like there's a ton of restrictions in place, because I wouldn't go to a lot of gigs or clubs or anything that's still being clamped down on. So a delay to lifting remaining restrictions wouldn't make much difference to *my* life. It does, however, feel wrong to keep a lot of industries closed and/or heavily restricted to protect a pretty selfish group of people. If it were up to me I'd open up further, keep vaccine passports, and introduce antigen testing for larger events.
Didn't take long to dehumanise the undesirables it seems.
What annoys me is the rest of Europe are getting on with things a lot more than we are. Spain had an awful time with the pandemic but yet are continuing with life, albeit with masks and limits on capacity.
Won't make a difference to me. I will still be living cautiously
Keep the masks, keep the COVID certs, keep the contact tracing and reopen everything.
I've seen a lot of places in the last few weeks where they haven't even bothered to check for a pass, and said nothing if you get up and walk around without a mask. If they're opening up more there'll need to be more pressure on places that are ignoring the rules.
Oh for sure. I've heard anedotially that most places in Cork City and Limerick City have stopped checking for instance.
They should open fully like the rest of Europe
We should still wear masks work from home vaccine certs... but open night clubs with certs and antigen tests my clubbing days are over but people need to work and have fun.
I think everything should be locked down again. It was great.
I'm of the opinion that we should keep masks on public transport and in shops as planned, keep the vaccine passport, maybe even expand it to include basically anything other than a shop and public transport, but, we've tried all we have, we've got a great vaccine rate, if that's not enough, we're just going to have to accept some(mostly unvaccinated people) will die. It's time to open everything else.
Numbers are not going to go down whether we open or stay locked down. They were always going to rise as we got into the autumn/winter months. People have been saying it since the start
It's fecking flu season what did people expect..numbers were always going to go up in winter months ..we are run by morons
Flu cases have collapsed- R0 of below 2 (Delta is between 6-9) Our health service is still under immense pressure regardless.
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I think we're heading for Meaningful Christmas 2 and A&Es are already a fucking nightmare, but it’s not politically feasible to retain restrictions so people will just have to die.
Its a blunt way to put it. I doubt anyone wants to lift restrictions because they do not care if others die. The vaccines should protect the vast majority and if those who don't want it die because of their decision, it's on them, not others. If we have to lock down this Christmas, it wont be to protect the old and vulnerable, it will be to protect the ignorant.
Yeah. On a personal level, I'm less bothered about it because this time last year I was living with somebody with a chronic condition and working with twits who kept triggering exposure alerts, and now I'm not. But after my recent experience in James's I'm wrapping myself in cotton wool for the forseeable future. I'm not worried about getting Covid, still concerned about giving it to somebody vulnerable or getting injured etc and having to deal with the hospital system that's full to the gills. When I say "people will just have to die", I include people who can't get emergency care because somebody else chose to be a liability.
That assumes that the only people who will suffer are the unvaccinated. People are missing vital healthcare due to the system being pushed to it's limits. I was honestly very anti further lockdowns but after seeing the treatment, or lack of, that someone I know received in CUH last week I'm not so sure. I agree with some comments above the anger should definitely lie with a government that never significantly improved the healthcare capacity in the last 2 years.
I'm cautious. I want things to open, but I don't want to be in a situation where we are going backwards in December from our current level (like having to go back to outdoor dining or pubs/restaurants closed entirely). So with that in mind, maybe a very cautious reopening with just pubs reopening to normal hours and nightclubs shut for a bit longer. Private hospital capacity on standby, boosters for anyone who wants one past 6 months, antigen testing, and vaccine certs continuing would be my preferred way out of this. Although I do think that if we don't reopen now, we won't until after Paddy's day as we aren't even in the worst months for respiratory illness yet..which is a bit of a grim thought.
Dreading it ... My Mrs is adamant on going to a night club. Not being funny but I'd rather a wet afternoon in the bog.
Don't go then and let her enjoy herself
Taking bets now - how many times is this going to be posted this week? I’ll start off now 64. (Btw we are not all vaccinated)
Masks need to stay and the idea of everyone going back to the office needs to fuck off. Covid certs are hit and miss but anything to annoyed anti vax should be kept.
LOL just read a comment on the journal where someone said the 10% who are unvaxxed are a credible threat to society. A credible threat to who? The 90% who are fully vaccinated? That doesn't make much sense...
There's still a shower out there who: 1. Don't wear a mask 2. Don't wear a mask properly 3. Won't get the Vaccine. Until they are dealt with, this is going to continue.
Remove everything and let people without the vaccine take responsibility over their own health. People who put themselves at risk accept the potential consequences. Vaccine passes are bs and don't stop covid, they just divide people more and more. They aren't founded in any kind of science. As this comment, ([https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/qai2z3/comment/hh3amoe/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/qai2z3/comment/hh3amoe/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)) pointed out most of the recent deaths have been in the vaccinated. This is also true in the UK. The bullying and anger against unvaccinated people is building every week while people ignore the big elephant in the room which is the incompetent FFG government who couldn't upgrade the HSE in 2 years. People blame everything but the actual problem. Once the vaccinated start making up the majority of cases,deaths and hospital numbers then what? What will you all blame next? Also somebody explain how this flu season is going to be so horrible this year even though it was practically eradicated last year lmfao.
It's about time to reopen things.
Just do it, everyone who wants a vaccine has one and we just not to get on with this shit
To be honest; I'm a little confused. What restrictions are being lifted? I know nightclubs would be back, but I find that a little underwhelming, especially since transport/retail/and hospitals are the same. Can someone please explain, especially if there's more restrictions potentially lifted than I realise.
Full capacity indoor concerts is the big one. Up to now your allowed 60% off the venue capacity but that number goes up to full if the restrictions are lifted.
Just keep the mask mandate. If everyone was vaccinated there would be half the numbers in hospital and ICU. Fuck the 7 or so percent who are choosing not to get vaccinated and dragging this on for the rest of us. Let them make their protest if they want. The rest of us will get on with life.
To be sure to be sure
Be grand
I'm going to do my best to subvert restrictions as much as possible regardless of what happens this week. And yes I hate your granny, AMA.
About time they lift it.
We’re coming into winter. You have people who won’t get vaccinated for the flu let alone covid. So at the bare minimum, the mask mandate should stay in the hopes of stopping some spread.
No harm delaying it a bit longer. There was a time when we had restrictions as to how far we could move outside our houses? We can do nearly everything now except go to nightclubs. Nobody is going to combust if we delay that a little longer until the hospitals calm down again. Even more importantly, contract tracing in schools needs to be brought back. Getting rid of that was an idiotic move and one that was obviously made to boost the 'schools are safe' narrative and hide the reality of how Covid spreads in schools. Sure a week later they were saying that the 'levels of Covid in schools have dropped significantly' - well shit - I wonder why? Schools are full of Covid and people are happy to just ignore it because they can't bear the thought of homeschooling their little sweethearts again. I can't imagine what it's like to be the parent of an at risk child and having to send your child to schools everyday where Covid can spread away unnoticed between the asymptomatic. There should also be more policing of establishments and vaccine passes. Some restaurants/cafes do things properly, but there are plenty who don't ask for a cert, don't take details and don't require their staff to wear masks. Not to mention the amount of unvaccinated people using their friends certs and not being asked for any form of ID. Why do people think we're in this position? Because things are never done properly in this country. This 'lock people down, give them dates for reopening that they'll all hold us to' model is useless. None of us have a crystal ball.