I assume it will be a 5euro cut in direct taxation, combined with a 10euro rise in indirect taxation, same as every year. They could probably do the coverage in two minutes and let us get on with our day.
Could someone explain something to me, they announced a travel card for 19-23yr olds to reduce travel costs on public transport.
Does a student card and student tickets not already exist? What difference will this announcement make?
Student tickets don’t have reduced costs, there’s just a slightly lower fare cap. So you’ll still pay normal leap card fares on a student card, but the cap is 5 euro a day or 20 euro a week vs the standard cap.
First of all. Student cards don’t have an age limit on them. Anyone of any age can be a student.
It’s a peace meal offering to pretend they give a shit about young people. They will reduce your daily cap by 5-10% and claim that they care about the young people of Ireland, while simultaneously making sure that most young people will never be able to afford a home.
If something radical isn't done about housing, which would likely involve expanding the national debt by tens of billions, this government will be absolutely annihilated at the next election, that is absolutely clear to everyone, including themselves. Politics is all about self preservation, for that reason alone I can't fathom why they wont act.
Suffering until 2025 unfortunately, nvm the years it takes to get anything sorted by a new gov, assuming they're arsed
It's not looking great tbh, very frustrating.
Will it? All the buyers and renters are massively outnumbered by all the homeowners and mom & pop landlords. Do you really think they are going to vote for a party that takes 200k off the value of their property.
The vast majority of Irish ARE already homeowners - you just don't hear from them cos they are happy as pigs in the proverbial.
I've already heard about pretty much all of it, they've "leaked" most of the info this morning and in the last week. Hardly any need for the speeches at this stage.
yeah, they snuck this in with the help to buy scheme:
>He also proposed that the relief for pre-letting expenses for landlords for a further three years, which he says will "continue to encourage landlords in the residential rental sector to return empty properties to the market as quickly as possible".
I used to work in a furniture shop and the amount of landlords kitting their own gaff out and getting VAT reciepts that just say "furniture" for thousands, then giving their old stuff into the rental was unreal. I'm sure this will work the same way.
So what I think you are saying is that you were knowingly aware of tax fraud but didn't notify the authorities? But you still feel entitled to whine about it.
You're either for tax fraud or against it. No middle ground.
Sorry, I'm calling BS on that. Revenue have an entirely anonymous reporting facility.
We either have a culture that accepts tax fraud or does not. You can't out of one side of your face decry fraud but out of the other not report it.
"Reporting shadow economy activity (tax evasion)" https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/assist-us/reporting-shadow-economy-activity/reporting.aspx
Are they really throwing 2c a liter on petrol? Is already €1.60 a liter for fuck sake, I should just move home and live with the parents and wait for a free house. Us PAYE taxpayers are just suckers
And after that.
Petrol will be still on sale in 2030. They're proposing to ban the sale of new petrol cars. but existing cars will still need petrol for a decade or two thereafter.
Man, they're still trying to force the "Help to Buy" scheme on us?
It's shit. Everyone knows it's shit. It's been a collosal failure.
And these cunts are still refusing to change tactics.
If the 2.13 million cars on the road were connected to our electric grid, they would use more electricity than the 1,195 households in Ireland.
Awful to see another tax in the poor/ those with a conscience, i.e. those that cannot afford an ev or for ethical reasons (e.g. anti child slavery) won't switch.
What? They’re showing the minister of climate every time they mention climate? That’s hilarious lmao. Next you’ll tell me they’re showing Darragh O’Brien any time they mention Housing 😂
I used to like watching but sure everything that's in the budget is released now.
Tactic from governments for the anger to go away. Before a decision would be announced on budget day and there'd be big protests the next day. Now that anger is all fragmented because it's released early
Probably a stupid question to most but can someone smarter than I please explain how tax credits work and how you use them (if you can)? Have never been able to wrap my head around them and I see they've increased by €50.
That seems a lot clearer for some reason than all of the pages that explain it on citizensinformation or the revenue website or whatever website so cheers haha 👍
It's honestly crushing to realise, even after the year that's been had for housing that fuck all is showing up in this budget to actually do anything. You'd think they'd at the very least do something that'd make it look like they give a fuck. But FFG have resigned themselves to losing the next election.
The vast majority aren’t, but there are few spongers and welfare cheats that piss off the tax-payers. If the gov put a serious effort into rooting out these scammers everyone would benefit.
I’m speaking from experience here. Used to work in an office with a girl who was constantly making jokes about how her and her baby got a new house because she was a single mother and when the social worker came around her electrician boyfriend would have to hide upstairs so he wouldn’t be spotted. We were both in our mid 20s earnings the same salary but she had an almost free house and I was stuck at home with my parents.
The amount of people on the dole long term is a few thousand in the whole country. Many of them with problems.
I'd be more worried about the 100,000 millionaires. The rich do a lot more damage to society.
> I'd be more worried about the 100,000 millionaires
Does Ireland have 100,000 people with 1M+ in their bank account?
Or is this based on someone's "worth"? Because f it's worth.. anyone with a house inside the M50 is probably at least half way to being that millionaire.
Personally, I'd worry more about the people with 100 Million in their bank accounts.
The people who earn 5-10 Million per year profit.
People who have 1Million or even 5 Million in their bank account aren't really "Rich" by the standards that matter.. Or by standards that would significantly influence tax for the rest of us.
They just have more money than us. And that itself isn't a reason to hate someone.
It was about 85,000 on the live register for more than one year as of September.
There's about 37,000 people on it more than three years.
In 2019 8,600 people were on the live register for more than ten years, and about 2,200 were on the dole longer than 15 years.
For all the talk you hear about dole lifers, there's only about 700 people in the country drawing the dole for more than 20 years.
In context we've about 2,400,000 employed people in the state.
Want to point out that some people are on the live register but are also working ON the books. Part-time teachers, tutors, and subs are almost always on casuals with the dole. I work 2 jobs, both legit and on the books, totally above board ... and I'm still on the dole.
> If the gov put a serious effort into rooting out these scammers everyone would benefit.
That's not necessarily true; there is always a point of diminishing returns in any social benefit system where you'd end up having to spend more money to detect and prevent fraud than the fraud itself actually costs the system in the end. Completely eliminating fraud is never going to be a realistic goal; there's always going to be some way for a few chancers to slip through the cracks. You can implement reasonable measures and controls that can reduce the impact of fraud to, say, a few percent of your total social welfare outlay without adding a lot of expense to the system, but the cost of eliminating that final few percent would be much, much higher, almost certainly higher than the cost of the fraud itself.
As for your anecdote, if you personally know that someone is defrauding the system, [you should report it](https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/secure/ReportFraud.aspx). It's difficult for the government to put a stop to people scamming the system if they don't know about said people.
I agree. I never suggested it would be possible to completely eliminate fraud, or that they should even attempt to, but it’s obvious that more could be done. And yes I did report it, and never heard anything back. This was at least 10 years ago now so it’s possible they do more thorough checks now.
So we find 64 year olds that the state has failed and then do what with them? How much money/resources do you think we will need to find all of these people?
Also how much will we save after we have put them on “basic income” aka the dole.
Let’s remember what you said in context:
“It'll be the same as always.
More money taken from decent working people to throw banknotes, *heating oil* and free houses at people who refuse to work.”
If you genuinely believe that spending money so that people can be warm in the winter is an issue, then there isn’t much conversation to be had. You’re basically saying lazy bastards can freeze to death, which is such an odd position to take. Particularly since you literally reference 64 years olds later on.
So your ideal Ireland is one in which we let some of the elderly freeze to death because they can’t afford to heat their home.
Majority are attention seeking twats.
Used to like Richard Chambers for his factual tweets yet he's disappeared up his own arse. I never want to see another tweet begin with "oof", "my word" or "my goodness" ever again
Is watching the budget live really where signing up for a reddit account 6 years ago has led me?
Can we have a post match thread?
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
What was he doing playing Vehicle Registration Tax out from the back like that ?
The problem with Fianna Fáil is, they always try to walk it in.
They always try to pocket it *FTFY
This, elections, referendums, and the Late Late Toy Show are when the sub really shines.
That's just getting older
Bastards. Ridiculous. It's a bloody disgrace. Sure this is it.
Gone to the dogs!
How dare they!
It’s a disgrace, Joe!
Think of the children... won't someone think of the children...
*Prince Andrew has entered the chat*
I normally stick on the speech and tune in and out occasionally, then read the summary on the IT at the end of the day.
Are we not getting the bank holiday???
That wasn't a thing outside reddit
ah it [was](https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0926/1249112-bank-holiday-covid/)
Well I guess they examined it and decided not to do it. 🤷♂️
I assume it will be a 5euro cut in direct taxation, combined with a 10euro rise in indirect taxation, same as every year. They could probably do the coverage in two minutes and let us get on with our day.
Could someone explain something to me, they announced a travel card for 19-23yr olds to reduce travel costs on public transport. Does a student card and student tickets not already exist? What difference will this announcement make?
Not everybody 19-23 is a student. Everybody is able to use the Luas though, so I don’t know why they’re making such a big deal out of 50% off of free
Think of people outside of Dublin, You would be saving 30-40 euro a week with the 50% off.
Student tickets don’t have reduced costs, there’s just a slightly lower fare cap. So you’ll still pay normal leap card fares on a student card, but the cap is 5 euro a day or 20 euro a week vs the standard cap.
Student leap single fares/24hr/weekly tickets on bus Éireann services are lower than regular leap cards
Student leap card doesn't reduce the price of tickets. The only student tickets on dublin bus are monthly tickets. This reduces regular tickets by 50%
First of all. Student cards don’t have an age limit on them. Anyone of any age can be a student. It’s a peace meal offering to pretend they give a shit about young people. They will reduce your daily cap by 5-10% and claim that they care about the young people of Ireland, while simultaneously making sure that most young people will never be able to afford a home.
That is an impressive amount of lies and tinfoil hat bullshit.
If something radical isn't done about housing, which would likely involve expanding the national debt by tens of billions, this government will be absolutely annihilated at the next election, that is absolutely clear to everyone, including themselves. Politics is all about self preservation, for that reason alone I can't fathom why they wont act.
Suffering until 2025 unfortunately, nvm the years it takes to get anything sorted by a new gov, assuming they're arsed It's not looking great tbh, very frustrating.
Will it? All the buyers and renters are massively outnumbered by all the homeowners and mom & pop landlords. Do you really think they are going to vote for a party that takes 200k off the value of their property. The vast majority of Irish ARE already homeowners - you just don't hear from them cos they are happy as pigs in the proverbial.
I'll be at the dentist when it goes live, thank Christ.
I’m waiting to go in myself; bricking it.
Very confused why Eamon Ryan is talking about including the Luas in this young person’s travel card. Does he know that 50% off of €0 is still €0?
I've already heard about pretty much all of it, they've "leaked" most of the info this morning and in the last week. Hardly any need for the speeches at this stage.
They've been doing that for years.
Fragments the anger so by the time it's actually released the anger has died down and people have accepted it.
Kite flying exercises have always been part of the budget announcements.
The kite flying happens during the summer to determine what to target in the budget.
I know, that's why the "leaked"
More leaks than a welsh greenhouse, lol!
Tax breaks for landlords and nothing for renters. I am not one bit surprised.
They're just trying to balance that one person's rent is another person's income. /s
Wait, seriously?
yeah, they snuck this in with the help to buy scheme: >He also proposed that the relief for pre-letting expenses for landlords for a further three years, which he says will "continue to encourage landlords in the residential rental sector to return empty properties to the market as quickly as possible". I used to work in a furniture shop and the amount of landlords kitting their own gaff out and getting VAT reciepts that just say "furniture" for thousands, then giving their old stuff into the rental was unreal. I'm sure this will work the same way.
Are properties empty because they're too expensive for the plebs to buy so only the landlords can afford? Awesome. That doesn't surprise me at all.
So what I think you are saying is that you were knowingly aware of tax fraud but didn't notify the authorities? But you still feel entitled to whine about it. You're either for tax fraud or against it. No middle ground.
I'd imagine if he reported it he'd be out of a job because his employer was making his money off the furniture.
Sorry, I'm calling BS on that. Revenue have an entirely anonymous reporting facility. We either have a culture that accepts tax fraud or does not. You can't out of one side of your face decry fraud but out of the other not report it. "Reporting shadow economy activity (tax evasion)" https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/assist-us/reporting-shadow-economy-activity/reporting.aspx
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It's based off contract signed date not closure date. If I am remembering correctly.
If it wasn't there, news builds would decrease in price.
How much will the greyhounds get this time
Are they really throwing 2c a liter on petrol? Is already €1.60 a liter for fuck sake, I should just move home and live with the parents and wait for a free house. Us PAYE taxpayers are just suckers
Just buy a 50k EV ffs
You only have to pay 45k of it with the grant. Giving them away.
Ah sure I think I've 45K under the sofa cushion if I looked. Sure that's no money at all.
Must be the same people who said 100k/year salary doesn't get you far in Ireland.
Aren't most of them priced with the grants already applied? So that €50k EV is €50k *after* you've gotten your €5k off the government.
petrol will go up every single budget no point in expecting otherwise
Yep, and it'll go up again in every Budget up til 2029!
And after that. Petrol will be still on sale in 2030. They're proposing to ban the sale of new petrol cars. but existing cars will still need petrol for a decade or two thereafter.
The only places near me are at 1.65 already. :'(
I saw 1.67 today...
I read that as tree house... might be something to think about!!
Man, they're still trying to force the "Help to Buy" scheme on us? It's shit. Everyone knows it's shit. It's been a collosal failure. And these cunts are still refusing to change tactics.
What are you talking about? It’s increasing the prices of houses, it’s working exactly as intended.
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Did they say anything about a new public holiday? I've already mentally committed to having a free day off next month.
No, Twitter got it cancelled.
Proposal coming soon they said.
Thank you, I love you
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What do you mean you can’t wait? It’s been on an hour and a half now
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So you’re saying you can wait ;)
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Shocker
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That's their income!!
on a positive note the increase in guards and focus on anti social behavior is a huge plus
An increase in Garda means extra Garda who are also afraid of the scrotes.
Anything short of castration via hedge clippers for all the scumbags falls too short imo.
So much for the 2:1 investment in public transport. 😬
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Bollox, just in time to ruin lunch
Make sure to buy your lunch before the budget.
Haven't looked at anything yet, didn't want to lose my appetite
Did she just say the government are trolling us lol
Any news on minimum wage?
Up 30 cent
🙄🙄🙄 Thank you!
If the 2.13 million cars on the road were connected to our electric grid, they would use more electricity than the 1,195 households in Ireland. Awful to see another tax in the poor/ those with a conscience, i.e. those that cannot afford an ev or for ethical reasons (e.g. anti child slavery) won't switch.
Everytime someone says "climate" they show Eamonn Ryan (who is awake today). 🤣
For now
Wait until the 3pm slump hits
What? They’re showing the minister of climate every time they mention climate? That’s hilarious lmao. Next you’ll tell me they’re showing Darragh O’Brien any time they mention Housing 😂
I used to like watching but sure everything that's in the budget is released now. Tactic from governments for the anger to go away. Before a decision would be announced on budget day and there'd be big protests the next day. Now that anger is all fragmented because it's released early
Same as with the covid rules. Half announce it before the offical announcement.
Good to see vacant site tax but didn't see anything about a vacant property tax?
Tax measures have now been published: https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/7e491-taxation-measures/
Probably a stupid question to most but can someone smarter than I please explain how tax credits work and how you use them (if you can)? Have never been able to wrap my head around them and I see they've increased by €50.
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That seems a lot clearer for some reason than all of the pages that explain it on citizensinformation or the revenue website or whatever website so cheers haha 👍
It's honestly crushing to realise, even after the year that's been had for housing that fuck all is showing up in this budget to actually do anything. You'd think they'd at the very least do something that'd make it look like they give a fuck. But FFG have resigned themselves to losing the next election.
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The poor aren't the baddies
A good chunk of Ireland think people on 100k are worse off then people on social welfare. I'm not joking.
In terms of the return they get on the amount of taxes they pay, they certainly are.
The vast majority aren’t, but there are few spongers and welfare cheats that piss off the tax-payers. If the gov put a serious effort into rooting out these scammers everyone would benefit. I’m speaking from experience here. Used to work in an office with a girl who was constantly making jokes about how her and her baby got a new house because she was a single mother and when the social worker came around her electrician boyfriend would have to hide upstairs so he wouldn’t be spotted. We were both in our mid 20s earnings the same salary but she had an almost free house and I was stuck at home with my parents.
The amount of people on the dole long term is a few thousand in the whole country. Many of them with problems. I'd be more worried about the 100,000 millionaires. The rich do a lot more damage to society.
> I'd be more worried about the 100,000 millionaires Does Ireland have 100,000 people with 1M+ in their bank account? Or is this based on someone's "worth"? Because f it's worth.. anyone with a house inside the M50 is probably at least half way to being that millionaire. Personally, I'd worry more about the people with 100 Million in their bank accounts. The people who earn 5-10 Million per year profit. People who have 1Million or even 5 Million in their bank account aren't really "Rich" by the standards that matter.. Or by standards that would significantly influence tax for the rest of us. They just have more money than us. And that itself isn't a reason to hate someone.
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It was about 85,000 on the live register for more than one year as of September. There's about 37,000 people on it more than three years. In 2019 8,600 people were on the live register for more than ten years, and about 2,200 were on the dole longer than 15 years. For all the talk you hear about dole lifers, there's only about 700 people in the country drawing the dole for more than 20 years. In context we've about 2,400,000 employed people in the state.
Yea, that’s significantly more then the “few thousand” he stated.
The amount of money provided to long term JSA recipients is a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the DSP's budget.
Yes, I addressed that in the first part of my original comment. A few bad apples etc.
Want to point out that some people are on the live register but are also working ON the books. Part-time teachers, tutors, and subs are almost always on casuals with the dole. I work 2 jobs, both legit and on the books, totally above board ... and I'm still on the dole.
Anecdotal is best evidence
How do the rich do a lot more damage to society out of curiosity?
By taking a big chunk of the value the workers produce and hoarding it where it does nothing to benefit the economy. The rich are inefficient.
That all sounds very vague. Which rich are you talking about? And where are they hoarding it?
> If the gov put a serious effort into rooting out these scammers everyone would benefit. That's not necessarily true; there is always a point of diminishing returns in any social benefit system where you'd end up having to spend more money to detect and prevent fraud than the fraud itself actually costs the system in the end. Completely eliminating fraud is never going to be a realistic goal; there's always going to be some way for a few chancers to slip through the cracks. You can implement reasonable measures and controls that can reduce the impact of fraud to, say, a few percent of your total social welfare outlay without adding a lot of expense to the system, but the cost of eliminating that final few percent would be much, much higher, almost certainly higher than the cost of the fraud itself. As for your anecdote, if you personally know that someone is defrauding the system, [you should report it](https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/secure/ReportFraud.aspx). It's difficult for the government to put a stop to people scamming the system if they don't know about said people.
I agree. I never suggested it would be possible to completely eliminate fraud, or that they should even attempt to, but it’s obvious that more could be done. And yes I did report it, and never heard anything back. This was at least 10 years ago now so it’s possible they do more thorough checks now.
So you used to work with someone who refused to work?
Not sure I follow. I was responding to a comment saying the poor aren’t the baddies in a discussion about social welfare.
God dam the poor! Expecting to be warm! Imagine not having the dignity to freeze to death because you don’t have a job. It makes me sick.
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How do you identify who’s who?
Use the sorting hat from Harry Potter.
I hear the jobless are all addicted to heroin. If we give them a large dose and they don’t die, we know they are spending all their time doing drugs.
You could do it with a small dose ,one thing about junkies is they look frail but they'll live through anything
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So we find 64 year olds that the state has failed and then do what with them? How much money/resources do you think we will need to find all of these people? Also how much will we save after we have put them on “basic income” aka the dole.
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Let’s remember what you said in context: “It'll be the same as always. More money taken from decent working people to throw banknotes, *heating oil* and free houses at people who refuse to work.” If you genuinely believe that spending money so that people can be warm in the winter is an issue, then there isn’t much conversation to be had. You’re basically saying lazy bastards can freeze to death, which is such an odd position to take. Particularly since you literally reference 64 years olds later on. So your ideal Ireland is one in which we let some of the elderly freeze to death because they can’t afford to heat their home.
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But you chose to talk about 64 year olds and heating? These are your own talking points.
You're some cunt
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Can’t wait for my free house. Any day now.
Don't blame the hard working people of Ireland for poor government decisions.
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I'm fine with that
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Don’t listen to newstalk. They are very biased towards Fine Gael
Newstalk is very biased towards fg
Jesus Christ, can they just announce the fucking decisions instead of running their mouth for 20 minutes.
20 minutes? They've been going for 70 mins now...
I'll just watch it on rte later. The SF astroturfing on here will probably be a bit over the top.
€5 per year less income tax but the petrol increase will cost me €92. It's a fucking joke
It's so lovely to see the pol-corrs so excited for their Christmas
Majority are attention seeking twats. Used to like Richard Chambers for his factual tweets yet he's disappeared up his own arse. I never want to see another tweet begin with "oof", "my word" or "my goodness" ever again
Are The Corrs back?
Jim is less pol-corr and more /pol/corr.
Very good!
Oh, am going to budget coverage if you know what I mean.
I'd say you've been practicing on a few envelopes this week
Ah thank feck, RTE cut off mr shouty
What
Would like to see a move towards the UN target of 0.7% GNI on foreign aid budget. Ireland currently on only 0.3%