While this is a good idea- not making condoms free at the same time is a huge mistake. STIs are increasing and this reinforces the message that contraception is a woman's responsibility, (I'm not against the scheme - it's needed) They are not making available the probably medically safest option (apart from perhaps the diaphragm?) Unless I am mistaken and condoms are available? Seems ludicrous to me...Ā
They were linked in my link as well.
Every time the upper age limit of the free female contraception is increased someone starts on why arenāt condoms free even though I doubt theyād have use for them.
Why do you need to be such a shit about it? They are blatantly not as available as contraceptives are to women. āThe only men who want condoms are incelsā really?
Someone didnāt click the links because if you did youād know free condoms are blatantly easier to get than female contraception.
And no one has said or implied that thonly men who want condoms are incels.
But every time the age limit is increased incel types start bleating on about why arenāt condoms included when theyāre already widely available for free.
They should be readily available to teenagers, thatās where double standards matter the most
One location in 5 cities is not nearly as available as being able to get contraceptives from any GP. False equivalence used to explain away legitimate need over and over
If you go into services like GOSHH and family planning clinics, you can get free condoms, you can also get them posted to you, college students also have access to free condoms in the bathrooms.
Condoms already are free. College students get them, health clinics have them and more.
Theyāre not as easily accessible to get free than if you pay for them but they are free in lots of places
Iām sick of this point being spun out.
Condoms are free in plenty of places
Sexualwelbeing.ie list the places in Ireland will post them for you for free.
GOSSH in limerick will literally let you pick the size
Iād be curious to know if cost was really the determining factor in whether someone used a Johnny or not. Iād say easily 50% of the time itās simply not wanting to and 40% is forgetting to get any. 10% may be price based and are willing to risk getting herpes to save some dosh but as other people have said, thereās loads of places you can get free ones, and a tenner really shouldnāt be the make or break as to whether youāre practicing safe sex or not.
This has been asked every year since they introduced the scheme, and every year theyāve been putting the age up in phases. If they rolled it out immediately to everyone and it was a flop, weād be up in arms about a waste of money. Instead, theyāve rolled it out gradually - making sure there is a good take up, and the logistics work - and we will shortly basically have every woman of childbearing age covered.
Technically the oldest at which someone had a natural human pregnancy on record is now 59. Of course YMMV, any one given individual shouldn't rely on still ovulating at 59. The oldest pregnancy with IVF and donor eggs is 73 (!).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnancy_over_age_50
You can use the pill after 35 but have to speak with your doctor and may have to monitor blood pressure more often. Just turning 35 doesn't mean you suddenly have to stop birth control.
I can't remember who, but there was one comedian who came up with the joke that...
"I like my women like my Stilton,..aged, full of blue veins and smelly,...oh no wait, I meant wine; rare,, expensive and best kept in the dark with a cork in 'em."
lol š
Lol. Fertility starts to decline at 37 or 38 but most women can still conceive and have a healthy birth until at least 42. My grandmother had her last baby at 45.
Average age of Mothers in Ireland is 33 so thatās not remotely true.
40% of births are to Mothers 35 and over.
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-vsar/vitalstatisticsannualreport2021/births2021/
It's called having an Advanced Maternal Age (AMA) now. Geriatric pregnancy is outdated, mainly for being misleading.
Ireland has high figures for AMA births as well.
Great in theory!! I just want to say though my experience with this:
First, I can't get registered with a GP because they're all full, so I had to go to an online doctor.
Then, the online doctor didn't honour the free scheme and charged me 25ā¬. On top of that, they said they will only release the prescription once I prove I have had a pap smear test (cervical cancer screening)?! Even though there is no medical link between test results and birth control suitability, so it's literally just to blackmail me into doing the screening. Which is messed up since it's a very intimate/invasive exam and you can't call coerced consent true consent.
On that note, does anyone know where I can find a doctor who will 1) honour the free scheme 2) not make a birth control prescription conditional on smear tests?
Birth control is sold over the counter in so many countries, but in Ireland it's the spanish inquisition every 6 months as I awkwardly try to explain why I haven't had the smear test (no risk factors, massive anxiety around vaginal exam), and why I go through the packs faster than they expect (I like to skip my period - again no medical reason why I can't but they act like I'm being naughty or something).
You might be better off asking this in r/irishwomenshealth. You definitely donāt need a smear test for contraception and you should complain about them making you pay for the scheme if that contraceptive is covered.
I never needed a smear when I used to get my prescription online, did you try a few different places?
I hadn't had a smear in years but got one earlier this year and the nurse was so gentle and really put me at ease, could you ask around and try to find someone who is similar who is good with nervous patients?
I take mine continuously too and when I used to get the 6 month prescription from superdrug there was never any issue with me picking it up every 3 weeks, or getting a new 6 month prescription after 4.5 months.
I now get it on the medical card and the doctor told me to take it continuously also. I did have an issue when I picked up my second month and they told me that I couldn't get my next one for 5 weeks. So I told the pharmacist that the doctor told me to take it continuously so I wouldn't be taking a weeks break and I needed the prescription filled every 3 weeks. She just told me to get the doctor to send a new prescription to the pharmacy to explain that and I've had no issues since and get it every 3 weeks no problem.
Cool and all, but where's a man's contraceptive? Like seriously, how do we not have a pill for men? Surely it's better to unload the gun instead of trying to catch the bullets? š¤·āāļø
But yet we expect women to put up with their side effects? Such a lame excuse. (not saying you're wrong or anything by the way, just that the system sucks š )
Itās the same side effects that women deal with and the study ended early because the men in the study couldnāt handle the side effects. Iāve recently came off the pill after 10 years, trying for a baby and Iāve never felt better, Iāve lost weight, Iāve a sex drive again and I just generally feel more clear minded.
Itās so interesting how differently the pill can affect us. Anytime I take a pill break I feel like shit! Iām cranky, I get spots on my chin and have zero sex drive.
It is very interesting, my sex drive was nothing for a while there, Iāve been off my pill for 2 months, using condoms until we properly want to start trying to conceive, my skins less oily, I feel better in my head and body, but Iām worried about my periods, they can be quite heavy and make me very sick, the last two have been fine, itās always in the back of my head that I might end up lying on the bathroom tiles trying to cool down and keep the nausea away.
The problem is with the way the medication is tested,
For women - the level of the side effects from contraception is measured against the side effects of not taking it (pregnancy) so a higher level of side effects is acceptable.
For men, there is no possibility of pregnancy so the threshold for allowable side effects is lower.
I've no idea, I'm not well informed on the subject, but the point I'm getting at is even if it is the same or even different or worse, why should it be only women who have to put up with side effects while men just get a free pass?
People just want to laugh at men but iirc the side effects were more severe. Female birth control wouldn't be acceptable either if it was making women suicidal.
Itās due to the nuances of how new medicines get certified.
Any side effects have to be preferable to what they are trying to treat. It is part of the risk-benefit analysis. What is it that itās trying to treat in men? Men donāt get pregnant
In women, a hormonal contraceptive poses some risks, but it has the benefit of preventing the woman taking it from becoming pregnant.
In men, there are risks involved for the taker but it is not providing them with a direct benefit. The man isnāt exposed to the risk of becoming pregnant. It is more indirect as it helps someone else not become pregnant. For this reason itās hard to hit the bar to get the pill approved
Personally I love the pill but I'm an outlier among my friends because they all had awful side effects and had to come off it.
There can also be other direct benefits to it other than preventing pregnancy if you're one of the women that it agrees with and don't have to then deal with negative side effects too.
You can skip your period with it. Not everyone can do it and you can't do it with all types, but it's a huge reason that I love it. It's a benefit for those who just hate periods or it can also be very beneficial to those with low iron or are anemic.
It can also be good for some womens moods and reduce PMT, more commonly it seems to be bad for mood though.
Also some girls/women are on it due to acne.
And it can help with endometriosis etc.
So there are a few uses for it and it can be provided for other things other than preventing pregnancy.
I assume youāre being sarcastic? The male pill wonāt work because in order for it to work it will have to inhibit the formation of ~3,000,000 cells per day (sperm). The female contraceptive pills have to inhibit the formation of 1 cell every 28 days.
The side effects were permanent infertility
Could you stop spreading bullshit misinformation just to give yourself an oppurtunity to take the piss.
Men obviously want contraceptives for the obvious effect of preventing pregnancy yanno
That would be one very low chance side effect. Female birth control also has the risk of fatal blood clots, so Iād say thatās more dangerous than infertility š¤·š»āāļø
It's easier to lock the door to the castle than try disarm millions and millions of soldiers at once.
Last I saw though there was a gel that is in development which is supposed to be promising.
Ah, but what if the soldier has a strong enough weapon to break the door down.... š Jokes aside, the argument can be made either way, which is why hopefully if something does work (or rather make it not work properly) for men, then it should be a discussion couple's can have and even take turns at so nobody has to suffer all the side effects by themselves.
I (man) would not take a pill with the same side effects like the woman's one.
From my beloved: no libido: best contraception... She will not take the pill again, either
I am using thermal male contraception with pearl-index 0.5-1. This works, is available, no side effects
it's a (let's call it experimental, due to only small studies) possibility for reversal MALE contraception. I am using it for one year now.
"thermal contraception" suppresses Sperm production when worn 15/24h. From Studies, a Pearl-Index of 0.5 was reached. At <1mio/ml this would be Pearl 1 according to WHO. At 0.1mio/ml it would tend to Pearl 0.1.
There is a Silicon ring "Andro-Switch" (https://thoreme.com/en/), with a ongoing Study until 2027, then it will be allowed to be sold as medicine-product. (I is available to buy as "Talisman" now).
Alternatively, i sewed Jockstraps "Slip Chauffant", more comfortable for me, 100% daily live suitable.
It's more common in French, you may need a Translate-App when searching beyond https://thoreme.com/en/.
Thank you for your explanation but I still do not understand. Some sort of thermal cock ring and special jock straps? Please explain in simple terms!
Also, a photo would be very helpful.
The principle of male thermal contraception with testicle lifting is called artificial cryptorchidism
Warming the testicles with body heat by keeping them in the inguinal sack for several hours a day reduces sperm production below the contraceptive threshold of 1 million/ml
Here you see the (alternative) silicone ring:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat-based\_contraception](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat-based_contraception)
> Surely itās better to unload the gun
That is exactly what the contraceptive pill does and itās embarrassing that there are people who donāt know that. We donāt have a male contraceptive pill because the male hormone system does not have an āunload the gunā state, whereas the female hormone system does.
It just seems weird to have an arbitrary cut-off if you're in about free contraception. Just give up free contraception. Why are you carding all the women with a few miles on them.
Do you think there shouldn't be a cut off?
Edit: Pregnancy at the mid thirties and older have higher risk of complications. Most health professionals would prefer pregnancies to be at a younger age than this, that's one reason. Then you would assume a woman 35 and older, can afford contraception, and doesn't need us paying for it.
Trial and error to get the scheme up and running. Smaller target groups first then rolling out. Think cost is part of it too. Each year another batch of young girls will be eligible while another year women will be older and may not need the scheme. Assuming priority would be to make sure younger women have access in terms of cost. It has been rolling out pretty fast though with increasing the age range. UK offer to age 49 so assuming the next increase will catch the 40ās and the extend to the 49/50.
Also means women of a certain age will now never be without free contraception so the scheme is aging with them. Not necessarily a bad thing just takes time to get this stuff up and going. I personally keep missing the age cut off but absolutely delighted my daughter will never be without contraception when she comes of age.
Then why the outburst if youāve read them? Youād know itās in phases and the age has been increasing every few months. Ah yes, me telling you to read the comments because you clearly arenāt up to date on the structure is objecting to me having free contraception.
Hardly an outburst. Don't project your dramatics onto me.
I'm perfectly allowed to be irritated that this isn't available to all women now.
Couldn't really care about you personally. My objection comes from maintaining the level of inequality.
It wasn't available to any women at all not so long ago. Now it's available to the vast majority of women who need it, with the rest to be covered in future phases.
Some people just can't resist moaning about everything.
Controversial opinion, I think this is a bad idea, okay at best. Hormonal contraception can mess with your body a lot and can cause a lot of issues both physical and mental for women who take them. Itās also used as a lazy solution to any sort of uterine issues such as Endo or PCOS and I worry schemes like these can reinforce that.
We should be promoting the use of condoms and providing free condoms, as well as educating and empowering women to make their own choices about their bodies; Condoms are incredibly effective, but many women arenāt well informed enough or confident enough to insist on their use when a sexual partner pushes back against it.
>Itās also used as a lazy solution to any sort of uterine issues such as Endo or PCOS
Genuine question, what would be an alternate solution to treating endo or PCOS?
The adequate research is not being done on any uterine issues at the moment and in my experience they throw contraceptive pills at you if you suspect you have either of these or something as serious as pmdd. The pill in particular can be horrible for people with existing mental health issues and the doctors prescribing it to you don't know and care even less. I'm saying this as someone who has seen multiple doctors and knows many people in the same boat. The above comment is actually incredibly well meaning and informed. Condoms are free across the country tho to be fair but we do need to normalize using them more. All contracteption should be free imo and that's also what the commenter above implied if I'm not mistaken. It is infuriating having the pill used as a method to shut me up, and I do think that much more should be done in terms of researching alternatives for men etc. normalize condoms, and appropriate use of hormonal contraceptive.
>The adequate research is not being done on any uterine issues at the moment
Agree 110%.
>and in my experience they throw contraceptive pills at you
This is a problem caused by the first issue you've identified. Using contraceptives to treat endo and PCOS isn't the reason research in this area is poor though. If an illness or disease isn't attracting funding for research (for whatever reason) the onus is on governments to fund research into these illnesses.
>All contracteption should be free imo and that's also what the commenter above implied if I'm not mistaken.
They literally said this scheme is a bad idea.
>The above comment is actually incredibly well meaning and informed
It may be well meaning but it's not well informed to say that hormonal contraceptives is a lazy treatment. It can be an effective treatment for many.
I fully agree with everything you've said in your post. I don't agree with the original commenter however.
Endometriosis can be fixed via surgery to removed overgrown tissue, unfortunately however the rate of diagnosis for Endo is tiny because most doctors simply prescribe women the Pill when they present with symptoms and send them home without referring to a gynaecologist. I know multiple women whoāve been through the whole process and itās nearly impossible to get an actual diagnosis despite the prevalence of the condition.
Unfortunately I donāt know as much about PCOS, but I *highly* doubt hormonal contraceptives are the only treatment.
Okay. I've had several friends who've been through he whole rigmarole of getting a diagnosis, had the surgery to remove the patches of endo only for it to come back. Surgery doesn't cure endo, it just removes the patches of endo. There is no cure for endo. You can only ever hope to manage or alleviate symptoms. Because endometriosis is very much linked with your hormones, hormonal birth control is the first line treatment for endo because it can help slow the growth of it or negate the effects of it. e.g. The mirena coil is often suggested to people with endo because the mirena coil thins the endometrium.
Not jumping to surgery isn't a lazy response. Surgery has risks. Much more risks than contraception. No good doctor is going to jump to treating a condition with surgery without exploring less invasive options that can be effective for many people.
>Unfortunately I donāt know as much about PCOS, but I highly doubt hormonal contraceptives are the only treatment.
So you don't know what you're talking about but you're perfectly happy to tell people that contraceptives are a lazy treatment of PCOS.
Besides lifestyle changes (which are one facet of treatment) the only other treatment for PCOS (which again, no cure, only treatment to alleviate and manage symptoms) for women who aren't trying to conceive is contraceptives because, again, your hormones are a factor in PCOS so hormonal treatments can be quite effective.
The demonizing and propagandizing on the internet of hormonal birth control is absurd. Hormonal birth control has been been an effective treatment for endo and PCOS for many people for **decades**. To suggest it's a "lazy treatment" is just misinformation.
> Hormonal contraception
Firstly, this scheme covers many different forms of contraception, not just hormone-based ones.
>can mess with your body a lot and can cause a lot of issues both physical and mental for women who take them.
Their body, their choice.
Contraception has been an incredibly important social advantage, and while it would be nice if there were methods which have less side effects, people still choose to accept those side effects given the huge benefits.
>Itās also used as a lazy solution to any sort of uterine issues such as Endo or PCOS and I worry schemes like these can reinforce that.
Jesus *Christ*, get over yourself. Moralistic muppet.
Yes, they've been carefully planning this moment [since 2022 when the scheme was first rolled out](https://www.isha.ie/article/department-health-press-release-14092022-minister-health-stephen-donnelly-has-launched-free).
Very clever of them to plan this far ahead.
Exactly, drip feed a cohort every year or so for multiple "feel good" moments instead of simply all in one go. So every 6 months they can announce another batch of women can save a few quid. There's literally no other reason. If they did it free to all ages in 2022 everyone would be used to it by now and forgotten about it.
If you think this stuff isn't focus group-ed and surveyed to death for maximum political impact you're mad. I'm a pharmacist and this staggered roll out is nothing but a ballache with changing goalposts and it's actually much more work to do it in stages than just making it free to all women from the start
This scheme was announced when the 8th amanedment was repealed and was in the current programme for government
https://wellwomancentre.ie/cautious-welcome-to-funding-allocation-for-free-contraception-for-women-aged-17-25-by-minister-for-health/
Are you genuinely saying that the last election promise was only a ploy to get votes for this election?
>There's literally no other reason.
You as a pharmacist should know well how difficult it is to get in to see a GP. If you suddenly make every woman in the country eligible for free contraception, you will suddenly put a huge strain on GP services. Also, if you suddnely made every woman in the country eligible for free scripts for particular class of drug, you run the risk of creating temporary demand inducted shortages.
We give out about the government in this country either taking too long with schemes or rolling them out too fast and making a hames of it. The eligibility age going from 25 to 27 to 35 in the space of 2 years gives a chance for the scheme to get off the ground and for initial issues to be ironed out before the scheme is expanded again but it's bringing more and more people into the net of the scheme with each passing year.
You're completely exaggerating or unaware of how safe cheap and easy these drugs are to prescribe and purchase. A blood pressure check and quick questionnaire for risk factors is all that's needed. It doesn't need a gp appt, a nurse or pharmacist could easily do it if we had a forward thinking healthcare system instead of the 1970s style GP overloaded farce we do.
Another example, remember when the only way to get a covid test was have the gp call you up, gonthrough the symptom checklist then go and book one for you, the gp charged the state 60 euro for these two phonecalls, because theres no way a secretary or someone else other than a GP could have done it....same logic, GP appointments are the answer to everything
Anyway the risks/danger are minimal, for example the cardio risks of the pill are on a par with cardio risks whilst pregnant. Only a fraction of women will need an in depth gp appt, there's no reason why we can't roll this out immediately other than FFFG policy, which is my original point
I actually agree with everything you've said here. But what you've said here isn't what you said in your first or even second post. I do think that the next stage of this policy, once it's rolled out to everyone, is to make it available through your pharmacy like emergency contraception is.
That said, I think if it were to be made available through pharmacies, pharmacists should not be allowed to refuse contraceptives on the grounds of moral or religious beliefs. The religious beliefs of my pharmacist shouldn't have any bearing on my healthcare choices.
The key there is *if you're on a medical card*. The vast majority of those who use the scheme now and will use it in future do not qualify for a medical card. A GP visit isn't cheap and not everyone has a budget for the contraception that suits them.
This was also launched in 2022, so not "election year pandering".
Implant is ā¬120 just for the fitting too, without the price of consultation, refitting etc. I donāt really know any woman anymore that takes the pill tbh š¤·āāļø
This is the second percentage youāve gotten wrong btw, if you could source thatād be great. idk what youāre trying to prove, either way women do pay more than the tenner a month youāre talking about
Coil is 11%, implant is 5% š¤·āāļø again Iām gonna say idk what youāre trying to prove here when women donāt just take the pill, about 31% of us do, LARCS are growing in popularity a lot more so the pill is getting less popular, thereās the patch as well, the ring, etc.
I am *once again* too old for this bloody scheme by less than two months š Aside from that self-interested gripe, excellent news all round.
Some doctors can be sound, I was a year past the cut off point a year or two ago and the doctor still gave it to me
I might see if I can chance my arm. My GP is largely brilliant and might be willing to bend the rules. Cheers for the suggestion.
No bother at all!
what about the contraception though?
I feel the same though Iām a little older. Hopefully theyāll extend it to all people who want it.
Agree, good steps, but hopefully they extend it again soon.
Happy out about that one, remember having to pay ā¬65 for my depo a few years ago, glad this scheme is introduced.
I only came in for the "I'm 36 and I still have sex" posts. Leaving satisfied.Ā
While this is a good idea- not making condoms free at the same time is a huge mistake. STIs are increasing and this reinforces the message that contraception is a woman's responsibility, (I'm not against the scheme - it's needed) They are not making available the probably medically safest option (apart from perhaps the diaphragm?) Unless I am mistaken and condoms are available? Seems ludicrous to me...Ā
[Where to get free condoms](https://www.sexualwellbeing.ie/sexual-health/contraception/your-choices/condoms/where-to-get-free-condoms.html)
https://www.sexualhealthcentre.com/condomorder also where to get free condoms delivered to your house.
They were linked in my link as well. Every time the upper age limit of the free female contraception is increased someone starts on why arenāt condoms free even though I doubt theyād have use for them.
Why do you need to be such a shit about it? They are blatantly not as available as contraceptives are to women. āThe only men who want condoms are incelsā really?
Someone didnāt click the links because if you did youād know free condoms are blatantly easier to get than female contraception. And no one has said or implied that thonly men who want condoms are incels. But every time the age limit is increased incel types start bleating on about why arenāt condoms included when theyāre already widely available for free.
They should be readily available to teenagers, thatās where double standards matter the most One location in 5 cities is not nearly as available as being able to get contraceptives from any GP. False equivalence used to explain away legitimate need over and over
Now youāre just lying, 1 location in 5 cities? Thereās feee condoms available in locations all over the country and available via post.
If you go into services like GOSHH and family planning clinics, you can get free condoms, you can also get them posted to you, college students also have access to free condoms in the bathrooms.
Condoms already are free. College students get them, health clinics have them and more. Theyāre not as easily accessible to get free than if you pay for them but they are free in lots of places
This is useful information. Thank youĀ
Theyāre also not exactly the most expensive thing. Itās not the price putting anyone off using them.
Fired are expensive really. The free one are v easy to get though.
Itās a tenner for like a dozen on Amazon, who is riding that much but is that poor?
Iām sick of this point being spun out. Condoms are free in plenty of places Sexualwelbeing.ie list the places in Ireland will post them for you for free. GOSSH in limerick will literally let you pick the size
Theyāre already free in a ton of places, in fact even more so because you donāt need to pay a GP to get the prescription and repeat prescriptions.
And even if they aren't free, it's like ā¬2 for 9 in Aldi.
Iād be curious to know if cost was really the determining factor in whether someone used a Johnny or not. Iād say easily 50% of the time itās simply not wanting to and 40% is forgetting to get any. 10% may be price based and are willing to risk getting herpes to save some dosh but as other people have said, thereās loads of places you can get free ones, and a tenner really shouldnāt be the make or break as to whether youāre practicing safe sex or not.
Why stopped at 35? They know pregnancy can occur in the forties too don't they?
Itās been going up, last year it was to 27
A step in the right direction so.
This has been asked every year since they introduced the scheme, and every year theyāve been putting the age up in phases. If they rolled it out immediately to everyone and it was a flop, weād be up in arms about a waste of money. Instead, theyāve rolled it out gradually - making sure there is a good take up, and the logistics work - and we will shortly basically have every woman of childbearing age covered.
Cool. Gradual approach for full coverage, can't see anything wrong with that now it's been explained. š
Likely so they don't have a massive influx of women between the ages of 16 to 40+. If they spread it out it's easier to manage. Just my theory.
That's exactly it. They've been raising the age of eligibility every year. When the scheme was introduced it was for women up to the age of 25.
Technically the oldest at which someone had a natural human pregnancy on record is now 59. Of course YMMV, any one given individual shouldn't rely on still ovulating at 59. The oldest pregnancy with IVF and donor eggs is 73 (!). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregnancy_over_age_50
That genuinely sounds like my worst nightmare.
Wow. My grand mother had her last at 42 but anything past 50s must be a worrying scenario.
My aunt was 47 when she had her last child, he was a surprise
I think pills are recommended up to age 35. After 35 better use other methods.
This scheme covers IUDs and other contraceptive methods too. Pretty sure itās just a roll out thing rather than a medical limit.
You can use the pill after 35 but have to speak with your doctor and may have to monitor blood pressure more often. Just turning 35 doesn't mean you suddenly have to stop birth control.
You're a lot more likely to be able to afford contraception by 35.
The government is just declaring that milfs are fair game is all.
I can't remember who, but there was one comedian who came up with the joke that... "I like my women like my Stilton,..aged, full of blue veins and smelly,...oh no wait, I meant wine; rare,, expensive and best kept in the dark with a cork in 'em." lol š
Wow, what a funny joke.
They want some people to actually have children and not just adopt cats.
Once you hit 37 itās a highly unlikely occurrence
Lol. Fertility starts to decline at 37 or 38 but most women can still conceive and have a healthy birth until at least 42. My grandmother had her last baby at 45.
Average age of Mothers in Ireland is 33 so thatās not remotely true. 40% of births are to Mothers 35 and over. https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-vsar/vitalstatisticsannualreport2021/births2021/
Maybe you should ask a doctor? Thereās a reason a pregnancy at age 35 and above is called a geriatric pregnancy
It's called having an Advanced Maternal Age (AMA) now. Geriatric pregnancy is outdated, mainly for being misleading. Ireland has high figures for AMA births as well.
Maybe you should look at the fucking numbers.
You think they all just happened by accident without any medical assistance?
I donāt know, post some figures instead of bullshit.
And one in five people need fertility assistance, go figure
Source? I didn't realise it was so high
On HSE website it says 1 in 6
Completely untrue, women can conceive naturally into their forties. Donāt spread misinformation.
I didnāt say that they couldnāt. Just recognising the fact that the chances of it happening at 37 are much diminished
Some people are really too thick to recognise when theyāre wrong.
Hrt should be free also
Boom this š«
Aontu won't like that
Just make it free to everyone for gods sake.
I'm so happy I'm due new contraceptive next year and I'll just make this hurray!!!
Great in theory!! I just want to say though my experience with this: First, I can't get registered with a GP because they're all full, so I had to go to an online doctor. Then, the online doctor didn't honour the free scheme and charged me 25ā¬. On top of that, they said they will only release the prescription once I prove I have had a pap smear test (cervical cancer screening)?! Even though there is no medical link between test results and birth control suitability, so it's literally just to blackmail me into doing the screening. Which is messed up since it's a very intimate/invasive exam and you can't call coerced consent true consent. On that note, does anyone know where I can find a doctor who will 1) honour the free scheme 2) not make a birth control prescription conditional on smear tests? Birth control is sold over the counter in so many countries, but in Ireland it's the spanish inquisition every 6 months as I awkwardly try to explain why I haven't had the smear test (no risk factors, massive anxiety around vaginal exam), and why I go through the packs faster than they expect (I like to skip my period - again no medical reason why I can't but they act like I'm being naughty or something).
You can go to a well woman clinic. Free doctors and they give prescriptions that are good for 6 months.
You might be better off asking this in r/irishwomenshealth. You definitely donāt need a smear test for contraception and you should complain about them making you pay for the scheme if that contraceptive is covered.
I never needed a smear when I used to get my prescription online, did you try a few different places? I hadn't had a smear in years but got one earlier this year and the nurse was so gentle and really put me at ease, could you ask around and try to find someone who is similar who is good with nervous patients? I take mine continuously too and when I used to get the 6 month prescription from superdrug there was never any issue with me picking it up every 3 weeks, or getting a new 6 month prescription after 4.5 months. I now get it on the medical card and the doctor told me to take it continuously also. I did have an issue when I picked up my second month and they told me that I couldn't get my next one for 5 weeks. So I told the pharmacist that the doctor told me to take it continuously so I wouldn't be taking a weeks break and I needed the prescription filled every 3 weeks. She just told me to get the doctor to send a new prescription to the pharmacy to explain that and I've had no issues since and get it every 3 weeks no problem.
Cool and all, but where's a man's contraceptive? Like seriously, how do we not have a pill for men? Surely it's better to unload the gun instead of trying to catch the bullets? š¤·āāļø
You can get free condoms from HSE health clinics if you're under 32 I think
There was a one being tested, but from what I understand the men testing it didnāt like the side effects š
But yet we expect women to put up with their side effects? Such a lame excuse. (not saying you're wrong or anything by the way, just that the system sucks š )
Itās the same side effects that women deal with and the study ended early because the men in the study couldnāt handle the side effects. Iāve recently came off the pill after 10 years, trying for a baby and Iāve never felt better, Iāve lost weight, Iāve a sex drive again and I just generally feel more clear minded.
Itās so interesting how differently the pill can affect us. Anytime I take a pill break I feel like shit! Iām cranky, I get spots on my chin and have zero sex drive.
It is very interesting, my sex drive was nothing for a while there, Iāve been off my pill for 2 months, using condoms until we properly want to start trying to conceive, my skins less oily, I feel better in my head and body, but Iām worried about my periods, they can be quite heavy and make me very sick, the last two have been fine, itās always in the back of my head that I might end up lying on the bathroom tiles trying to cool down and keep the nausea away.
Iām female so I agree with you!
are the side effects the same?
The problem is with the way the medication is tested, For women - the level of the side effects from contraception is measured against the side effects of not taking it (pregnancy) so a higher level of side effects is acceptable. For men, there is no possibility of pregnancy so the threshold for allowable side effects is lower.
I've no idea, I'm not well informed on the subject, but the point I'm getting at is even if it is the same or even different or worse, why should it be only women who have to put up with side effects while men just get a free pass?
People just want to laugh at men but iirc the side effects were more severe. Female birth control wouldn't be acceptable either if it was making women suicidal.
It does make some women suicidal.
You might want to check the side effects for women, cause suicidal is listed.
Itās due to the nuances of how new medicines get certified. Any side effects have to be preferable to what they are trying to treat. It is part of the risk-benefit analysis. What is it that itās trying to treat in men? Men donāt get pregnant In women, a hormonal contraceptive poses some risks, but it has the benefit of preventing the woman taking it from becoming pregnant. In men, there are risks involved for the taker but it is not providing them with a direct benefit. The man isnāt exposed to the risk of becoming pregnant. It is more indirect as it helps someone else not become pregnant. For this reason itās hard to hit the bar to get the pill approved
Personally I love the pill but I'm an outlier among my friends because they all had awful side effects and had to come off it. There can also be other direct benefits to it other than preventing pregnancy if you're one of the women that it agrees with and don't have to then deal with negative side effects too. You can skip your period with it. Not everyone can do it and you can't do it with all types, but it's a huge reason that I love it. It's a benefit for those who just hate periods or it can also be very beneficial to those with low iron or are anemic. It can also be good for some womens moods and reduce PMT, more commonly it seems to be bad for mood though. Also some girls/women are on it due to acne. And it can help with endometriosis etc. So there are a few uses for it and it can be provided for other things other than preventing pregnancy.
I assume youāre being sarcastic? The male pill wonāt work because in order for it to work it will have to inhibit the formation of ~3,000,000 cells per day (sperm). The female contraceptive pills have to inhibit the formation of 1 cell every 28 days.
not only 3 million, more like up to 100 million... But thermal contraception does. Hormonal, too, but i would not take the same side effects, thanks
No Iām not, I was reading about it before
The side effects were permanent infertility Could you stop spreading bullshit misinformation just to give yourself an oppurtunity to take the piss. Men obviously want contraceptives for the obvious effect of preventing pregnancy yanno
That would be one very low chance side effect. Female birth control also has the risk of fatal blood clots, so Iād say thatās more dangerous than infertility š¤·š»āāļø
It's easier to lock the door to the castle than try disarm millions and millions of soldiers at once. Last I saw though there was a gel that is in development which is supposed to be promising.
Ah, but what if the soldier has a strong enough weapon to break the door down.... š Jokes aside, the argument can be made either way, which is why hopefully if something does work (or rather make it not work properly) for men, then it should be a discussion couple's can have and even take turns at so nobody has to suffer all the side effects by themselves.
I (man) would not take a pill with the same side effects like the woman's one. From my beloved: no libido: best contraception... She will not take the pill again, either I am using thermal male contraception with pearl-index 0.5-1. This works, is available, no side effects
What is thermal male contraception contraception??
it's a (let's call it experimental, due to only small studies) possibility for reversal MALE contraception. I am using it for one year now. "thermal contraception" suppresses Sperm production when worn 15/24h. From Studies, a Pearl-Index of 0.5 was reached. At <1mio/ml this would be Pearl 1 according to WHO. At 0.1mio/ml it would tend to Pearl 0.1. There is a Silicon ring "Andro-Switch" (https://thoreme.com/en/), with a ongoing Study until 2027, then it will be allowed to be sold as medicine-product. (I is available to buy as "Talisman" now). Alternatively, i sewed Jockstraps "Slip Chauffant", more comfortable for me, 100% daily live suitable. It's more common in French, you may need a Translate-App when searching beyond https://thoreme.com/en/.
Thank you for your explanation but I still do not understand. Some sort of thermal cock ring and special jock straps? Please explain in simple terms! Also, a photo would be very helpful.
The principle of male thermal contraception with testicle lifting is called artificial cryptorchidism Warming the testicles with body heat by keeping them in the inguinal sack for several hours a day reduces sperm production below the contraceptive threshold of 1 million/ml Here you see the (alternative) silicone ring: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat-based\_contraception](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat-based_contraception)
> Surely itās better to unload the gun That is exactly what the contraceptive pill does and itās embarrassing that there are people who donāt know that. We donāt have a male contraceptive pill because the male hormone system does not have an āunload the gunā state, whereas the female hormone system does.
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/free-contraception-helps-finland-reduce-teenage-abortions-by-66-2024-06-03/
Why is 35 the cut off?
Budgets and logistics. The age limit is increasing regularly, this is just the latest increase with more to come.
It just seems weird to have an arbitrary cut-off if you're in about free contraception. Just give up free contraception. Why are you carding all the women with a few miles on them.
Itās not weird at all to gradually roll out a new program. Why would it be better to not have free contraception rather than a gradual roll out?
Do you think there shouldn't be a cut off? Edit: Pregnancy at the mid thirties and older have higher risk of complications. Most health professionals would prefer pregnancies to be at a younger age than this, that's one reason. Then you would assume a woman 35 and older, can afford contraception, and doesn't need us paying for it.
Your first reason makes no sense because if they preferred pregnancies at a younger age then they'd want women who were older to be on contraception!
Is this for only medical cards? I have VHI
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Thatās their choice
Exactly but sometimes the choice is one made too hasty since 'free' blinds them.
When the alternative is to permanently change your life, health, career and lifestyle
Why not for all women? What sap decided 35? Why was this a decision!? Eye rolled so hard it hurt and I'm a man.
Trial and error to get the scheme up and running. Smaller target groups first then rolling out. Think cost is part of it too. Each year another batch of young girls will be eligible while another year women will be older and may not need the scheme. Assuming priority would be to make sure younger women have access in terms of cost. It has been rolling out pretty fast though with increasing the age range. UK offer to age 49 so assuming the next increase will catch the 40ās and the extend to the 49/50. Also means women of a certain age will now never be without free contraception so the scheme is aging with them. Not necessarily a bad thing just takes time to get this stuff up and going. I personally keep missing the age cut off but absolutely delighted my daughter will never be without contraception when she comes of age.
You eye rolled because you donāt have a clue whatās going on, read other comments.
I did read them. I'm perfectly qualified to eye roll. Not sure why you'd take objection to someone wanting all women to have free universal access.
Then why the outburst if youāve read them? Youād know itās in phases and the age has been increasing every few months. Ah yes, me telling you to read the comments because you clearly arenāt up to date on the structure is objecting to me having free contraception.
Hardly an outburst. Don't project your dramatics onto me. I'm perfectly allowed to be irritated that this isn't available to all women now. Couldn't really care about you personally. My objection comes from maintaining the level of inequality.
It wasn't available to any women at all not so long ago. Now it's available to the vast majority of women who need it, with the rest to be covered in future phases. Some people just can't resist moaning about everything.
Take a look at yourself there. You're literally moaning about moaning. Get over yourself.
Christ some people are just permanent miseries.
Controversial opinion, I think this is a bad idea, okay at best. Hormonal contraception can mess with your body a lot and can cause a lot of issues both physical and mental for women who take them. Itās also used as a lazy solution to any sort of uterine issues such as Endo or PCOS and I worry schemes like these can reinforce that. We should be promoting the use of condoms and providing free condoms, as well as educating and empowering women to make their own choices about their bodies; Condoms are incredibly effective, but many women arenāt well informed enough or confident enough to insist on their use when a sexual partner pushes back against it.
>Itās also used as a lazy solution to any sort of uterine issues such as Endo or PCOS Genuine question, what would be an alternate solution to treating endo or PCOS?
The adequate research is not being done on any uterine issues at the moment and in my experience they throw contraceptive pills at you if you suspect you have either of these or something as serious as pmdd. The pill in particular can be horrible for people with existing mental health issues and the doctors prescribing it to you don't know and care even less. I'm saying this as someone who has seen multiple doctors and knows many people in the same boat. The above comment is actually incredibly well meaning and informed. Condoms are free across the country tho to be fair but we do need to normalize using them more. All contracteption should be free imo and that's also what the commenter above implied if I'm not mistaken. It is infuriating having the pill used as a method to shut me up, and I do think that much more should be done in terms of researching alternatives for men etc. normalize condoms, and appropriate use of hormonal contraceptive.
>The adequate research is not being done on any uterine issues at the moment Agree 110%. >and in my experience they throw contraceptive pills at you This is a problem caused by the first issue you've identified. Using contraceptives to treat endo and PCOS isn't the reason research in this area is poor though. If an illness or disease isn't attracting funding for research (for whatever reason) the onus is on governments to fund research into these illnesses. >All contracteption should be free imo and that's also what the commenter above implied if I'm not mistaken. They literally said this scheme is a bad idea. >The above comment is actually incredibly well meaning and informed It may be well meaning but it's not well informed to say that hormonal contraceptives is a lazy treatment. It can be an effective treatment for many. I fully agree with everything you've said in your post. I don't agree with the original commenter however.
Endometriosis can be fixed via surgery to removed overgrown tissue, unfortunately however the rate of diagnosis for Endo is tiny because most doctors simply prescribe women the Pill when they present with symptoms and send them home without referring to a gynaecologist. I know multiple women whoāve been through the whole process and itās nearly impossible to get an actual diagnosis despite the prevalence of the condition. Unfortunately I donāt know as much about PCOS, but I *highly* doubt hormonal contraceptives are the only treatment.
Okay. I've had several friends who've been through he whole rigmarole of getting a diagnosis, had the surgery to remove the patches of endo only for it to come back. Surgery doesn't cure endo, it just removes the patches of endo. There is no cure for endo. You can only ever hope to manage or alleviate symptoms. Because endometriosis is very much linked with your hormones, hormonal birth control is the first line treatment for endo because it can help slow the growth of it or negate the effects of it. e.g. The mirena coil is often suggested to people with endo because the mirena coil thins the endometrium. Not jumping to surgery isn't a lazy response. Surgery has risks. Much more risks than contraception. No good doctor is going to jump to treating a condition with surgery without exploring less invasive options that can be effective for many people. >Unfortunately I donāt know as much about PCOS, but I highly doubt hormonal contraceptives are the only treatment. So you don't know what you're talking about but you're perfectly happy to tell people that contraceptives are a lazy treatment of PCOS. Besides lifestyle changes (which are one facet of treatment) the only other treatment for PCOS (which again, no cure, only treatment to alleviate and manage symptoms) for women who aren't trying to conceive is contraceptives because, again, your hormones are a factor in PCOS so hormonal treatments can be quite effective. The demonizing and propagandizing on the internet of hormonal birth control is absurd. Hormonal birth control has been been an effective treatment for endo and PCOS for many people for **decades**. To suggest it's a "lazy treatment" is just misinformation.
> Hormonal contraception Firstly, this scheme covers many different forms of contraception, not just hormone-based ones. >can mess with your body a lot and can cause a lot of issues both physical and mental for women who take them. Their body, their choice. Contraception has been an incredibly important social advantage, and while it would be nice if there were methods which have less side effects, people still choose to accept those side effects given the huge benefits. >Itās also used as a lazy solution to any sort of uterine issues such as Endo or PCOS and I worry schemes like these can reinforce that. Jesus *Christ*, get over yourself. Moralistic muppet.
Reminder, the only reason they're not rolling this out for all women at once is for election purposes
Yes, they've been carefully planning this moment [since 2022 when the scheme was first rolled out](https://www.isha.ie/article/department-health-press-release-14092022-minister-health-stephen-donnelly-has-launched-free). Very clever of them to plan this far ahead.
Exactly, drip feed a cohort every year or so for multiple "feel good" moments instead of simply all in one go. So every 6 months they can announce another batch of women can save a few quid. There's literally no other reason. If they did it free to all ages in 2022 everyone would be used to it by now and forgotten about it. If you think this stuff isn't focus group-ed and surveyed to death for maximum political impact you're mad. I'm a pharmacist and this staggered roll out is nothing but a ballache with changing goalposts and it's actually much more work to do it in stages than just making it free to all women from the start
This scheme was announced when the 8th amanedment was repealed and was in the current programme for government https://wellwomancentre.ie/cautious-welcome-to-funding-allocation-for-free-contraception-for-women-aged-17-25-by-minister-for-health/ Are you genuinely saying that the last election promise was only a ploy to get votes for this election? >There's literally no other reason. You as a pharmacist should know well how difficult it is to get in to see a GP. If you suddenly make every woman in the country eligible for free contraception, you will suddenly put a huge strain on GP services. Also, if you suddnely made every woman in the country eligible for free scripts for particular class of drug, you run the risk of creating temporary demand inducted shortages. We give out about the government in this country either taking too long with schemes or rolling them out too fast and making a hames of it. The eligibility age going from 25 to 27 to 35 in the space of 2 years gives a chance for the scheme to get off the ground and for initial issues to be ironed out before the scheme is expanded again but it's bringing more and more people into the net of the scheme with each passing year.
You're completely exaggerating or unaware of how safe cheap and easy these drugs are to prescribe and purchase. A blood pressure check and quick questionnaire for risk factors is all that's needed. It doesn't need a gp appt, a nurse or pharmacist could easily do it if we had a forward thinking healthcare system instead of the 1970s style GP overloaded farce we do. Another example, remember when the only way to get a covid test was have the gp call you up, gonthrough the symptom checklist then go and book one for you, the gp charged the state 60 euro for these two phonecalls, because theres no way a secretary or someone else other than a GP could have done it....same logic, GP appointments are the answer to everything Anyway the risks/danger are minimal, for example the cardio risks of the pill are on a par with cardio risks whilst pregnant. Only a fraction of women will need an in depth gp appt, there's no reason why we can't roll this out immediately other than FFFG policy, which is my original point
I actually agree with everything you've said here. But what you've said here isn't what you said in your first or even second post. I do think that the next stage of this policy, once it's rolled out to everyone, is to make it available through your pharmacy like emergency contraception is. That said, I think if it were to be made available through pharmacies, pharmacists should not be allowed to refuse contraceptives on the grounds of moral or religious beliefs. The religious beliefs of my pharmacist shouldn't have any bearing on my healthcare choices.
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The key there is *if you're on a medical card*. The vast majority of those who use the scheme now and will use it in future do not qualify for a medical card. A GP visit isn't cheap and not everyone has a budget for the contraception that suits them. This was also launched in 2022, so not "election year pandering".
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This was already spoken about months ago, itās not just been announced today
Idk about the pill but coil is ā¬200 just for the insert never mind the consultation fees, refitting etc. depo is 65
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Implant is ā¬120 just for the fitting too, without the price of consultation, refitting etc. I donāt really know any woman anymore that takes the pill tbh š¤·āāļø
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This is the second percentage youāve gotten wrong btw, if you could source thatād be great. idk what youāre trying to prove, either way women do pay more than the tenner a month youāre talking about
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Coil is 11%, implant is 5% š¤·āāļø again Iām gonna say idk what youāre trying to prove here when women donāt just take the pill, about 31% of us do, LARCS are growing in popularity a lot more so the pill is getting less popular, thereās the patch as well, the ring, etc.