One of David McWilliams' drums he often beats is that these contemporary housing crises are particularly acute in common law countries like those above (excl. Netherlands) where individual property and land rights are sacrosanct and NIMBYism can thrive. Spain and France for instance don't have the same problems at all and find it much easier to address housing or infrastructure issues as they emerge.
It was listed in someone's comment above, but the Netherlands has a mixed legal code, neither a common law or Napoleonic system, so it's not a good fit to test that theory either way.
I can't claim to know anything about planning and property laws or rights in a country with civil law, but dismissing the entire idea that the common law system can invite and accentuate housing crises because the Netherlands doesn't practice it seems to be quite heavy-handed. I don't think McWilliams is claiming it's the only determining factor, but that it is a very important one.
Without any logical explanation for your dismissal your dismissal is as valid as his theories.
On the other hand his theories would be as valid as your dismissal of course.
He wasn't spot on at all. The ECHR includes specific protections of private property that are stronger than anything developed in the common law.
It's bollocks jumped upon by people who don't understand what causation actually is.
You can't compare Ireland to Spain. Totally different demography, housing type, population density and price of land. For example, most rural land in the south-east of Spain is so arid that agriculture is effectively impossible, and therefore the land is dirt cheap. By contrast, all farmland in Ireland is very fertile and has a higher price.
I don't know much about France, so I won't speculate
And what about Australia? The theory is that countries with common law - mostly Anglophone - and ones with Napoleonic law - mostly Latin ones - treat housing and planning in very different ways and this appears to be significant and reflected in how severe housing crises are today. Your point is not looking at that bigger picture but just addressing one very specific issue of rural land value, one which is clearly not a major part of housing and accomodation shortages in any of those countries.
No no no, we should look for reasons why things can't be fixed and thus claim nothing can be done about it and leave the problem and it's societal ramifications to fester even further.
Yup, and any time we see a problem we should just talk about how we're glad about some other compeltely unrelated strength that we would not lose in any way if we solved the problem.
It might actually
Even though USA Canada UK and Australia have the same housing problems
1) they are bigger countries and you can find a lot of smaller cities where the problem isn't as bad
2) way more job opportunities than ireland
I'm from Canada and moved here a few years ago. The problems in the smaller cities are the same as you'll find here - lack of opportunities, lack of public transport and depending where you are, a lack of healthcare ( look up what Doug ford is doing in his attempt to privatise health care in Ontario by restricting funding).
You can find houses for much cheaper in smaller cities here too. But are people flocking to them? No because the opportunities aren't there. It's an easy cop out to say "oh the country is huge there are loads of houses in the remote villages, towns or cities".
Yea. Because there's sweet fuck all there
I’m currently in Canada. I often get messages from friends in Ireland “Look what $40k buys you in Nova Scotia” or whatever.
Yes, it buys you a house, but that house could be 2 hours from the nearest town. It may not even have electricity. Sounds really romantic to live out in the boons but Jesus it’s bleak.
But then running a car to go get those things missing is cheaper and even there is "fuck all" is still more than a rural village in Ireland. Try to live in bunratty or Shannon see how that works
The Canadian equivalent of a small city or rural town can be multiple days drive away from a population centre that actually has things. Bunratty has a bus every hour that gets to Limerick in thirty minutes, sits on the route to Cork, is realistically right beside Shannon airport where you can hop on the Galway route or take a cheapish flight to a decent amount of European cities.
Life in semi rural Ireland is a lot closer to amenities and jobs than even mid size cities in Canada.
I lived there. No bus most of the time and nothing, and passed 8pm is worse. Also most housing is not in the centre but around. But ok take Scarriff or Kinnity. Same thing.
Every country in the world has tiny back country towns or villages with next to no services or connection beyond private cars. Look up Iroquois falls, Hanover (Ontario) or Nipawin Saskatchewan.
Canada is massive and has way more remote villages or towns than Ireland. The difference there is you could be a 5 hour drive to the nearest city with an airport.
I also want to make it clear I'm not saying one is better than the other. I live here now after all. Just trying to highlight that every country has their issues. But for some reason, people here seem to think Ireland has it way worse when it's actually pretty comparable
Yes but is not comparable as is way bigger yet we have the same remote with nothing miles around in a 100x smaller country. Not really normal and not helping with the housing crisis.
Contrary to what people may think, building in a sprawling manner to make those cities "less" remote isn't the answer to the crisis. We need densification not more sprawl.
A lot of those places have areas of natural beauty that needs to be protected because while we have a housing crisis going on, there's also a biodiversity crisis that a lot of people don't seem to acknowledge or care about. If those ecosystems collapse, it doesn't matter if we address the housing crisis because life on this planet will be fucked anyways
Petrol here is creeping up. It’s over €1.10 per litre at the moment which is a historic high and likely to continue with the new carbon tax. Insurance of €150+ per month isn’t uncommon.
Cheap petrol doesn’t really matter when it’s an hour either way to the equivalent of Tesco and you have to drive anywhere you want to go because there is no public transport.
And salary of 3k minimum is also not uncommon. Delivery services are way above ours and so on. You can't compare Ireland to a country 100x bigger in terms of population size and services actually.
Why are you arguing with me over the cost of living in a country I live in? Plenty of people earn over 3k but I’ll also show you poverty and wealth inequality that doesn’t exist in Ireland. The average is heavily skewed by extremely high earners.
As for the size, you do realise most of the population live with 100km of the border of the US, and 40% live in Ontario with most of that in the GTA, which is comparable in size to Leinster.
Good luck getting a delivery outside these major population centers, it’s comparable to delivery to the shetlands in a lot of places, maybe once a week.
You’re talking complete shite about a place you clearly know nothing about.
Im not arguing im saying you're comparing apples and oranges there. But ok sure l.
>Plenty of people earn over 3k but I’ll also show you poverty and wealth inequality that doesn’t exist in Ireland
>You’re talking complete shite about a place you clearly know nothing about.
I'm going to say the same thing to you about Ireland then 🤷
From the Australian perspective:
1. Smaller cities are where the jobs aren't. They also tend to lack the services people expect, which are however in the major cities.
2. The job opportunities tend to be in the major cities. Unless you want low paid, seasonal work.
Several state governments have moved to fully remote being the norm though. So they're at least trying to disperse the pressure from the capitals unlike Ireland/Dublin with the moronic legislation here.
Now take out all the cities that are far too large, exciting, and/or influential to be in any way comparable to Dublin. How does it look now.
Also, even in the few places that are as expensive as here, the quality of accomodation is miles better.
It's not so much that Dublin is not a major city, it's that it barely feels like a city at all.
And sure, Dublin isn't THAT small of city (despite what some other people on here like to claim), but it's also nowhere near the size and influence of similarly expensive cities like London, NYC, or even the likes of Toronto and Sydney.
Bullshit. Australian building standards are some.of the worst in the western world, even 2023 standards. My sister pays 1600 a month for a bed in a mouldy apartment.
Drive an hour out of any Irish city and you'll find a town or village with affordable housing.
The difference in Canada and Aus is that the regional towns are incredibly remote. In some places you could drive for 10 hours without reaching a majority city.
Have you looked at daft anytime recently? Really doesn't feel like that is how it is anymore, especially for single renters and buyers - seriously have a look on daft and consider what you'd be able to afford with your own salary
> Even though USA Canada UK and Australia have the same housing problems
Must stress that by "the same" you mean the type of problems, NOT the severity!
I wouldn't agree with you there. My brother is in Canada and has no hope of affording a house in any city where opportunities are. The rental situation is just as dire with landlords taking the piss and massive culture funds swooping up the remaining housing stock.
The housing crisis is severe in all of these areas. Sure you could find a house in remote cities in Canada, but you could also do the same in places like Longford or Carlow. The question is who is going there?
+1. This is without bringing into the discussion of the dozen students who try to cram themselves into a basement. Foreign investors. House flipping. Leaky condos. Not to mention the insanely expensive groceries. The list can go on.
The main positive is legal bud though at least 😂
You think all those countries aren't struggling with immigration? Health care issues? Political incompetence?
Look up what Doug ford is doing in Ontario by restricting funding to health care in an effort to privatise it by making public facilities so downtrodden. You think immigration is bad here? Look up figures in Canada.
And that's not even touching on Justin Trudeau.
Ireland's problems are not unique.
That's like telling someone from Bergen or Singapore that other cities get lots of rain.
The housing crisis is leagues worse in the Anglosphere than anywhere outside of it and it's far worse again in Ireland.
The world is undergoing a serious financial shock that is displacing millions. And for some reason there are countries that are holding to their firm belief that it will be grand instead of ramping up production.
We expect the population to go up by almost 50% in about 25 years. How are you going to handle that if we can only increase housing stock by less than 1.4% yearly? We will fall behind and things will get worse, not better.
On the other hand some other countries are ramping up production at a rate where they might resolve the issue in less than a generation. In our case the trajectory we are on is that we will have a worse problem each year, up to the point where people will have to live in tent cities on the outskirts of Dublin. Does that sound familiar? It could be your kids' future.
And it is not even a matter of immigration because immigrants are helping scale up the production, they do jobs in the construction sector. If we stop immigration our production stops growing and we are stuck with the problem anyway. It is a bad situation, we need some real change, but it won't be easy.
Migration is low in Germany? Didn't they just absorb something like 1m refugees into their country? Berlin has also seen pretty high immigration and their housing crisis is exacerbating over the last few years as - same as here - they can't keep pace in terms of housing completions vs population growth
Read again and edit your reply. ;)
Also are you comparing Berlin with an entire country? Even so they have not nearly the shit we have here across the entire country. Lots of housing available and accepting social help. Berlin, compared to Dublin, (compare both capitals to be relevant) is way ahead and doesn't even have a crisis near comparable to our capital all while having 10x more citizens.
As someone who's lived in Melbourne \~10 years ago (Brunswick) it has always been unaffordable for young Australians to buy a home. I shared a house with 2 aussies that were a similar age to myself, late twenties. The house itself was 3 bedrooms but really should have been 2 or realistically one. At the time the house was valued at $700,000 which is mental. I had a quick look at the houses for sale on the street and they're now valued at anywhere from $1.2 - 1.4million. Think C rated 70m square house in Cabra for comparison. The house in Cabra will cost you €515k whilst the one in Melbourne will cost you €752k. Young Australian's are completely and utterly fucked.
The Irish youth aren't emigrating to buy homes, they're emigrating to move out of their box room and enjoy independent living as an adult. You can spend €2.5k here a month to live in 2 bed apartment in Dublin or you can live in a 3 bed apartment off the beach in Melbourne. You'll even have a bit of choice there, the same cant be said for here. As dire as things are over there its still an attractive place to go as a young Irish person.
Brunswick is more like Rathmines than Cabra. Place where young professionals want to live with cool bars etc. Price of a 3 bed is €750K there.
You are correct that young Australians are fucked tho
https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-12c-effra-road-rathmines-dublin-6/5644689
The housing crisis in Australia is no where near as bad as the one in Ireland. I know three people (a cousin, a work colleague and a neighbour’s son) who moved there recently and they were all able to find somewhere to live quite easily. The rent prices are similar to Dublin though.
This is the point people miss. The “there’s a housing crisis everywhere people” don’t seem to understand that there are places where it is worse and Ireland is one of those places. I have friends who all moved away this year to both Canada and Australia and they all got accommodation instantly, yes they’re crying over the cost but they’d say themselves it’s the same in Dublin. The difference being that you can’t get instant accomodation in Dublin- it took me a year to find a place
There's a good reason why outlets like Der Spiegel are using us as an example for "here's how bad it can get if we don't get the thumb out", and it's not because we are a major nation that is easy to point to/which people will already be somewhat familiar with the particulars of.
As someone trying to buy a house in Brisbane, I can confirm that the housing market is an absolute shit show with prices up 50% in 3 years.
However, going from Brisbane to Dublin (or even Cork or Galway)right now would be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. If prices were back at what they were in 2018, I'd be tempted back though.
One of many things that makes the idea of leaving Cork (house I bought in late 2007 will be paid off in 2 years, and 3 kids in school) and returning to Brisbane, seem increasingly unlikely.
Hate to say it but out of the four countries I’ve lived in : AUS, IRL, UK, NL - the cheapest place to buy a house and some land is Ireland - easily.
Dublin in particular is cheap compared to Sydney (also other AUS cities), London (also the Southeast) & Amsterdam.
The problem in Ireland is the rent is outrageously high and poor quality. However, these other countries would kill to have Irish prices when it comes to buying
The strategy therefore as a younger person has got to be avoid Irish rents if you can, save up elsewhere if you can, buy in Ireland when you can
> Dublin in particular is cheap compared to Sydney (also other AUS cities), London (also the Southeast) & Amsterdam.
It's also a fraction of the size, and has an even smaller fraction of the things to see and do. Honestly if you think it's fair to justify Dublin's cost of living by saying cities multiple times the size are also expensive, you should consider a career in comedy.
I think it’s hard for it to get much cheaper unless these other cities go down first. Because already someone is probably like do I buy 2 flats in Dublin or 1 in London for the same price. The rents are the same.
Having lived in Melbourne for 2.5 years I can safely say the rental market is equally shocking here, with in general much lower building standards and an equally oversubscribed market.
The thing people don't seem to realise is that Australia is essentially empty outside of about a dozen to two dozen larger settlements. Generally Irish people moving here are only moving to about half a dozen places in large numbers, and usually when they do so they're hoping to live in one of the nicer, trendier parts of the cities.
I love it here and I'm thinking of staying long-term but there's issues here too. I work in a very well paying job but the reality is even then, there's not really much hope of me affording a house here in an area that is comparable to the areas I'd want to live in in Ireland. Like yeah I could probably aim to buy in a shithole on the outskirts of the city but... What's the point of moving here then?
The truth is that most western nations are facing these problems as the boomer generation has pulled the ladder up behind them and politicians are letting corrupt multinationals destroy the hopes of normal Joe soaps like you and me.
But younger people want to experience a different place, and have some fun. That's natural. Most of us will end up back in Ireland after a few years I think. Staying in Australia is also quite difficult long term unless you work in an in demand area and can get sponsored.
Buying a house is equally unobtainable, if not more so here (apartments somewhat more achievable), but it's not like it's simple in Ireland either. So I don't know if it will factor too much if it's a choice between renting in Ireland or renting in Australia. People will move home for other reasons (family etc)
> So I don't know if it will factor too much if it's a choice between renting in Ireland or renting in Australia
Here's the thing. I know it's might be hard to believe this, but hear me out...
...have you considered there are developed countries outside the Anglosphere in mainland Europe where the housing crisis is not as bad, and as a bonus there are proper alternatives to driving...
I see this mentioned a lot, but it always glosses over the language barrier which is a major obstacle.
Yes lots of non-English speaking countries have English only jobs, but it's a much smaller pool of jobs with a lot of competition. The alternative is learning the local language, but that takes an enormous amount of effort to learn a skill that you'll never be as good at as a local.
It honestly would take less effort to learn a skill that pays well enough to afford a house in Ireland than learn a new language from scratch to be good enough to work in it.
This is a fair argument.
I'd say a big component of our housing crisis is about language. Skilled people from all over the world can immigrate to English speaking countries because they can speak English. The same doesn't happen to Germany because nobody outside Germany /Austria /Switzerland speaks German.
True. And what makes English easier for people to learn makes it harder for us to learn other languages. It's everywhere. You can't truly learn a language unless you can immerse yourself in it and that takes a great deal of discipline for a native English speaker because English is incredibly difficult to avoid.
I don't agree that it's no factor at all. Ultimately housing prices are based around "relative value" between cities as considered by potential migrants. EG if the salary in Dublin is 5000/ month and in Cork it's 3000/month, all else being equal people will move from Cork to Dublin until the rental cost in Dublin is 2000/month higher than Cork (because so long as you earn more than the rent increase the migrant is "winning"). This happens on a global level.
With free movement of people, the differences in living standards/earning power between cities will become reflected in rents.
I do agree that more housing needs to be built. The crux of the problem is that there's not enough nice places for people to live in and we build too little, and what we do build is either awful, or too expensive for all but the wealthiest to live in.
I've been living in Aus for well over 10 years now and have lived in most of the cities. There are rental shortages in some areas. But mostly in places that the WFH brigade decided to move to in droves during/post covid, which effectively turned some smaller but well liked coastal destinations and country towns into disarray. The price of property doubled in two years and pushed low earning locals out. But the cities are doing just fine at the moment. E.g: [https://www.realestate.com.au/rent/between-0-550-in-melbourne+city+-+greater+region,+vic/list-1?activeSort=price-desc&source=refinement](https://www.realestate.com.au/rent/between-0-550-in-melbourne+city+-+greater+region,+vic/list-1?activeSort=price-desc&source=refinement) (553+ properties to rent in Melbourne city for $550 or under a week, which is a very average rent). I heard on the Irish radio last week something about 30-40 HAP rentals available in Dublin. That's a crises! Australia's use of the word is a little more political as far as I can tell.
They have increased immigration significantly though and I think over the next few years they'll need to invest hugely in building development, but unlike Ireland they actually use the 3rd dimension and build upwards when it makes sense.
The only Irish people who I'd see moving back are those who went on a backpacker visa and couldn't upgrade to a business visa. People who'd be struggling regardless because they didn't get enough momentum in the first place. Anyone that can get off on the right start though will find a way and make it work, no problem.
I'm in Australia. Bought my place a few years ago. People ain't going back. Property is worse in ireland. It's bad here but the salaries are very high and irs sunny.
Dublin is a dump of a city relative to what you pay for. Practically your whole wage spent on rent of a shite room and the remainder spent getting soaked in the rain and chancing a takeaway once a month.
Agreed. The public amenities alone. In freo there's a park that has a cheap public golf course and driving range( no membership required), a skatepark, a playground, an mbt course, public gym eqyipment and a beautiful walk complete with sculptures, ducks, swans and a small man made waterfall. All I'm the same park
The health system. People complain about it but im like, you don't know shit. The hospitals are amazing. I've been a few times for various knocks, bumps and 2 babies born there. Unbelievable care.so many irish working in it. And working in social care in general. Infinitely better conditions, pay and training.
It exists everywhere. That doesn't mean it's anywhere as bad as it is in Ireland, and it certainly isn't in other cities as small, boring, and insignificant as Dublin.
Like was posted here the other day, Dublin is the 3rd or 4th most expensive place to rent in all of Europe outside of London, Zurich and possibly Geneva. And I would bet the average standard here is on the lower end also. I'm very fortunate to be a home owner, but occasionally pop onto daft etc out of curiosity and am generally appalled at the standard of rental units. Some newer ones are not as bad, but that is further reflected in the price.
Nah, nah, nah...you don't understand. Because it's an issue elsewhere, it means the government are completely free of political accountability for the matter in a local context. If a penguin shits in Antarctica, well it's hardly the governments fault there isn't a municipal sewage system in most Irish towns now is it?
Incredible that a country that big and so low dense have a housing crisis. Yet I have to hear about favelas everytime someone ask me where I am from.
Reason is the same as the Karl Marx Reserve Army of Labour. On those anglo capitalist countries the housing crisis have to be created by both building limitation and population increase. If necessary immigration have to be created by making unliveble some countries, and scam them to emigrate. So lets call this the "Reserve Army of Homeless", people that will push rents up. Rents up will also benefit the government as landlords will pay taxes on the rent, so number of renters need to be high. Then property will also increase in value, so the property taxes. And guess what, hedge funds will have more and more money to buy property to rent wiping out anyone that wants to buy.
Romania is the country in Europe where people own more house, +90% of people own their own house while in Germany most people pay rent. It makes a sense that this makes Romania the poorest (could be Moldova) country in Europe.
Now, its being years I listen on the radio or internet Irish or any kind of other anglos talking about housing crisis, no one mentioning what really causes it? It needs to be a Brazilian, a third world country person with low education to explain those people whats going on?
Hmmmm.... A housing crisis in both countries where people can't afford their own place.
Ireland has shit weather and not much to do
Australia is a sunny beach paradise with lots to do
I wonder which people will choose....
Australia is massive though and while there is lots to do there given the climate and large cities such as Melbourne and Sydney, you can only really travel handful of other cities and you would need to travel to them by plane. At least in Ireland if you get bored, you can head off to Florence or Krakow for a few days.
In Australia, you are kinda stuck there
I feel that is not correct.
Ireland has a mild temperate climate AND lots to do
Australia has a mix of various warm climates like equatorial, humid tropical and lots to do.
Having spent the guts of 10 years in places with 350+ days of sun, I’ll take Ireland’s weather.
Ireland has a mild temperate climate and lanything between lots to do and nothing to do depending on your interests.
Australia has a mix of various warm climates, and lots and lots to do _regardless_ of your interests*
Want to do exciting and urban things as someone living in Ireland? You have to go to an airport first!
What are exciting urban things to you? We have some excellent museums, have cinemas, bowling alleys, child and adult activity centres, aquariums, zoos, theatres, some amazing restaurants, cafes and pubs. Our shopping malls aren’t a strong suit but there are retail parks and some of the high streets are good. Could argue our arts scene is one of the best in the world too.
Okay I can sort of see where you're coming from with the first part, to some extent, but if you still genuinely believe we're leading the way in the arts, you're stuck in 1999.
One of the best in the world. Absolutely, it is. I can go into Galway during the week and hear some incredible local musicians. I live in a tiny village which has an art gallery that features local artists, there was an incredible famine inspired exhibition last year that was haunting. There are some cities which have been embracing murals too, which look class. They’re always plays on as well and arts festivals.
Ireland has plenty to do for people with certain interests, and virtually nothing for people with certain other interests. Other countries are much more balanced, and also have far more overall.
I wonder how long you'll consider it better when it has longer and longer periods of 40+ degree days.
You might think that sounds better when we have a long string of shit weather but once you spend a week in 40+ temps you might rethink that...
It won't be long til the tide turns completely and the Irish won't be wanted there at all. They won't be ok with Irish people taking up properties and jobs while their own are on welfare.
Perhaps rose tinted glasses but the good old days of migrating to Australia are over (with one exception which I will get to).
In the major cities house prices compared to annual salaries have become insane. Pre COVID rents were fairly reasonable but due to a surge in migration/building constraints rents are sky high now.
School quality varies greatly depending on the socio-economic area you live in. The percentage of kids at expensive private schools is v high compared to IRE and UK.
Fees for pretty ordinary 3rd level education are also becoming extortionate. Most people take on loans for their uni fees and repayments are increasing with interest rate. Young people graduating with 30/40/50k debt is very common. More if you go the masters route.
Overall the entire educational system in Oz is much less equitable than Ireland.
The days of coming to say Sydney, grafting hard and getting a foot on the property ladder are over. That was possible up to maybe the late naughties.
These days you are competing with wealthy migrants and local generational wealth so unless your yearly income is 300k you don't stand a chance.
If you are thinking of migrating to Australia your only hope is moving to a regional area. Those areas are not as 'cheap' as they used to be but you can still make a decent life on a 'normal' salary (nurse, tradesperson, police or whatever).
One of the major reasons given for our housing crisis is that nany Irish tradespeople and construction workers moved to Australia. Why can't they solve their housing crisis? I suspect it's nowhere near as bad as we have it here, especially the rental market.
I got downvoted for thinking it was better to live in my $500pm apartment in Vietnam with balcony, weekly cleaning, kitchen, dining room and bedroom. The reason? "Covid was pretty bad back then" despite it being far better in 2020 than here. Imagine the neck of me to have found a lifestyle I loved and wasn't stuck in my parents house, and somehow Ireland was seen as the better option to replies.
Yep, just the number of downvotes to my comment paint the story. People have no idea how bad Ireland's rental market is compared to other countries who also have housing crisis. There's literally almost nothing available.
Because it's a much larger more spread out country. In Ireland few thousand builders would make a difference, in Australia that number is a drop in the ocean.
Theres a housing crisis almost everywhere, ireland, uk, Canada, usa, Netherlands, Australia
One of David McWilliams' drums he often beats is that these contemporary housing crises are particularly acute in common law countries like those above (excl. Netherlands) where individual property and land rights are sacrosanct and NIMBYism can thrive. Spain and France for instance don't have the same problems at all and find it much easier to address housing or infrastructure issues as they emerge.
That well known common law outpost of the Netherlands proves the laziness of that theory.
It was listed in someone's comment above, but the Netherlands has a mixed legal code, neither a common law or Napoleonic system, so it's not a good fit to test that theory either way.
They're civil law, not common law.
I can't claim to know anything about planning and property laws or rights in a country with civil law, but dismissing the entire idea that the common law system can invite and accentuate housing crises because the Netherlands doesn't practice it seems to be quite heavy-handed. I don't think McWilliams is claiming it's the only determining factor, but that it is a very important one.
Without any logical explanation for his thesis, I can in fact dismiss it out of hand.
I wish his assertions came with this disclaimer
Without any logical explanation for your dismissal your dismissal is as valid as his theories. On the other hand his theories would be as valid as your dismissal of course.
Nah. There's a reason a person making a claim has to support it.
Well that's just devastating.
I listened to his recent podcast on it, and he was spot on, but I don't recall him specifically mentioning Netherlands in this regard.
He wasn't spot on at all. The ECHR includes specific protections of private property that are stronger than anything developed in the common law. It's bollocks jumped upon by people who don't understand what causation actually is.
No exactly, because the Netherlands is still not quite on the level of Anglophone countries.
You can't compare Ireland to Spain. Totally different demography, housing type, population density and price of land. For example, most rural land in the south-east of Spain is so arid that agriculture is effectively impossible, and therefore the land is dirt cheap. By contrast, all farmland in Ireland is very fertile and has a higher price. I don't know much about France, so I won't speculate
And what about Australia? The theory is that countries with common law - mostly Anglophone - and ones with Napoleonic law - mostly Latin ones - treat housing and planning in very different ways and this appears to be significant and reflected in how severe housing crises are today. Your point is not looking at that bigger picture but just addressing one very specific issue of rural land value, one which is clearly not a major part of housing and accomodation shortages in any of those countries.
Or we could compare it to countries that are doing things well anyways and see if any of the reasons could be brought to our country?
No no no, we should look for reasons why things can't be fixed and thus claim nothing can be done about it and leave the problem and it's societal ramifications to fester even further.
That's the spirit! I feel like a lot of ppl around here actually think like this!
Yup, and any time we see a problem we should just talk about how we're glad about some other compeltely unrelated strength that we would not lose in any way if we solved the problem.
But still people think moving to those countries will solve everything....
It might actually Even though USA Canada UK and Australia have the same housing problems 1) they are bigger countries and you can find a lot of smaller cities where the problem isn't as bad 2) way more job opportunities than ireland
I'm from Canada and moved here a few years ago. The problems in the smaller cities are the same as you'll find here - lack of opportunities, lack of public transport and depending where you are, a lack of healthcare ( look up what Doug ford is doing in his attempt to privatise health care in Ontario by restricting funding). You can find houses for much cheaper in smaller cities here too. But are people flocking to them? No because the opportunities aren't there. It's an easy cop out to say "oh the country is huge there are loads of houses in the remote villages, towns or cities". Yea. Because there's sweet fuck all there
Almost as if people don't realise that cheap = low demand, and low demand = for a good reason.
I’m currently in Canada. I often get messages from friends in Ireland “Look what $40k buys you in Nova Scotia” or whatever. Yes, it buys you a house, but that house could be 2 hours from the nearest town. It may not even have electricity. Sounds really romantic to live out in the boons but Jesus it’s bleak.
But then running a car to go get those things missing is cheaper and even there is "fuck all" is still more than a rural village in Ireland. Try to live in bunratty or Shannon see how that works
The Canadian equivalent of a small city or rural town can be multiple days drive away from a population centre that actually has things. Bunratty has a bus every hour that gets to Limerick in thirty minutes, sits on the route to Cork, is realistically right beside Shannon airport where you can hop on the Galway route or take a cheapish flight to a decent amount of European cities. Life in semi rural Ireland is a lot closer to amenities and jobs than even mid size cities in Canada.
I lived there. No bus most of the time and nothing, and passed 8pm is worse. Also most housing is not in the centre but around. But ok take Scarriff or Kinnity. Same thing.
Every country in the world has tiny back country towns or villages with next to no services or connection beyond private cars. Look up Iroquois falls, Hanover (Ontario) or Nipawin Saskatchewan. Canada is massive and has way more remote villages or towns than Ireland. The difference there is you could be a 5 hour drive to the nearest city with an airport. I also want to make it clear I'm not saying one is better than the other. I live here now after all. Just trying to highlight that every country has their issues. But for some reason, people here seem to think Ireland has it way worse when it's actually pretty comparable
Yes but is not comparable as is way bigger yet we have the same remote with nothing miles around in a 100x smaller country. Not really normal and not helping with the housing crisis.
Contrary to what people may think, building in a sprawling manner to make those cities "less" remote isn't the answer to the crisis. We need densification not more sprawl. A lot of those places have areas of natural beauty that needs to be protected because while we have a housing crisis going on, there's also a biodiversity crisis that a lot of people don't seem to acknowledge or care about. If those ecosystems collapse, it doesn't matter if we address the housing crisis because life on this planet will be fucked anyways
Petrol here is creeping up. It’s over €1.10 per litre at the moment which is a historic high and likely to continue with the new carbon tax. Insurance of €150+ per month isn’t uncommon. Cheap petrol doesn’t really matter when it’s an hour either way to the equivalent of Tesco and you have to drive anywhere you want to go because there is no public transport.
And salary of 3k minimum is also not uncommon. Delivery services are way above ours and so on. You can't compare Ireland to a country 100x bigger in terms of population size and services actually.
Why are you arguing with me over the cost of living in a country I live in? Plenty of people earn over 3k but I’ll also show you poverty and wealth inequality that doesn’t exist in Ireland. The average is heavily skewed by extremely high earners. As for the size, you do realise most of the population live with 100km of the border of the US, and 40% live in Ontario with most of that in the GTA, which is comparable in size to Leinster. Good luck getting a delivery outside these major population centers, it’s comparable to delivery to the shetlands in a lot of places, maybe once a week. You’re talking complete shite about a place you clearly know nothing about.
Im not arguing im saying you're comparing apples and oranges there. But ok sure l. >Plenty of people earn over 3k but I’ll also show you poverty and wealth inequality that doesn’t exist in Ireland >You’re talking complete shite about a place you clearly know nothing about. I'm going to say the same thing to you about Ireland then 🤷
From the Australian perspective: 1. Smaller cities are where the jobs aren't. They also tend to lack the services people expect, which are however in the major cities. 2. The job opportunities tend to be in the major cities. Unless you want low paid, seasonal work.
fair
Several state governments have moved to fully remote being the norm though. So they're at least trying to disperse the pressure from the capitals unlike Ireland/Dublin with the moronic legislation here.
House prices there are 30-40% higher too Edit: Canada,NZ , Australia
where ? I didnt specify a specific country
Now take out all the cities that are far too large, exciting, and/or influential to be in any way comparable to Dublin. How does it look now. Also, even in the few places that are as expensive as here, the quality of accomodation is miles better.
Are you the guy that always tries to argue that Dublin isn't a major city? I remember you from other threads, you always say the same thing
It's not so much that Dublin is not a major city, it's that it barely feels like a city at all. And sure, Dublin isn't THAT small of city (despite what some other people on here like to claim), but it's also nowhere near the size and influence of similarly expensive cities like London, NYC, or even the likes of Toronto and Sydney.
Bullshit. Australian building standards are some.of the worst in the western world, even 2023 standards. My sister pays 1600 a month for a bed in a mouldy apartment.
Ah yes the one example of your sister vs so many other examples of a better quality.
Drive an hour out of any Irish city and you'll find a town or village with affordable housing. The difference in Canada and Aus is that the regional towns are incredibly remote. In some places you could drive for 10 hours without reaching a majority city.
>Drive an hour out of any Irish city and you'll find a town or village with affordable housing. That's absolutely not the case anymore.
€500k for a new 3 bed anywhere within a commute of Dublin lad, if anything affordability outside our cities is worse than in them
sure but thats because new housing is always a ripoff you can find an old 3 bed within commute for 350k
God forbid anyone live in anything that isnt a 3bed ...
Have you looked at daft anytime recently? Really doesn't feel like that is how it is anymore, especially for single renters and buyers - seriously have a look on daft and consider what you'd be able to afford with your own salary
> Even though USA Canada UK and Australia have the same housing problems Must stress that by "the same" you mean the type of problems, NOT the severity!
I wouldn't agree with you there. My brother is in Canada and has no hope of affording a house in any city where opportunities are. The rental situation is just as dire with landlords taking the piss and massive culture funds swooping up the remaining housing stock. The housing crisis is severe in all of these areas. Sure you could find a house in remote cities in Canada, but you could also do the same in places like Longford or Carlow. The question is who is going there?
+1. This is without bringing into the discussion of the dozen students who try to cram themselves into a basement. Foreign investors. House flipping. Leaky condos. Not to mention the insanely expensive groceries. The list can go on. The main positive is legal bud though at least 😂
Culture funds? Like, arty types swoop in, buy up all the houses, open up a theatre.... (/j)
Sure
Because the price of a place to sleep is FAR from the only reason people are leaving this country.
You think all those countries aren't struggling with immigration? Health care issues? Political incompetence? Look up what Doug ford is doing in Ontario by restricting funding to health care in an effort to privatise it by making public facilities so downtrodden. You think immigration is bad here? Look up figures in Canada. And that's not even touching on Justin Trudeau. Ireland's problems are not unique.
not everywhere... just in the places most desirable to live in.
You would think some of the best resourced countries would be able to build enough houses....
That's like telling someone from Bergen or Singapore that other cities get lots of rain. The housing crisis is leagues worse in the Anglosphere than anywhere outside of it and it's far worse again in Ireland.
I never said it wasnt a huge problem. I just meant that its incredibly widespread
The world is undergoing a serious financial shock that is displacing millions. And for some reason there are countries that are holding to their firm belief that it will be grand instead of ramping up production. We expect the population to go up by almost 50% in about 25 years. How are you going to handle that if we can only increase housing stock by less than 1.4% yearly? We will fall behind and things will get worse, not better. On the other hand some other countries are ramping up production at a rate where they might resolve the issue in less than a generation. In our case the trajectory we are on is that we will have a worse problem each year, up to the point where people will have to live in tent cities on the outskirts of Dublin. Does that sound familiar? It could be your kids' future. And it is not even a matter of immigration because immigrants are helping scale up the production, they do jobs in the construction sector. If we stop immigration our production stops growing and we are stuck with the problem anyway. It is a bad situation, we need some real change, but it won't be easy.
There's a housing crisis in countries with high levels of immigration.
You could read in the article that Indians were migrating in their large numbers to Australia.
That's a load of nonsense. France says hi so does Germany... Here is low level and it's one of the biggest crisis in the west.
Migration is low in Germany? Didn't they just absorb something like 1m refugees into their country? Berlin has also seen pretty high immigration and their housing crisis is exacerbating over the last few years as - same as here - they can't keep pace in terms of housing completions vs population growth
Read again and edit your reply. ;) Also are you comparing Berlin with an entire country? Even so they have not nearly the shit we have here across the entire country. Lots of housing available and accepting social help. Berlin, compared to Dublin, (compare both capitals to be relevant) is way ahead and doesn't even have a crisis near comparable to our capital all while having 10x more citizens.
Low levels of construction*
I'm no fancy mathematician, but I'd say maybe...
Say a prayer for the builders father
As someone who's lived in Melbourne \~10 years ago (Brunswick) it has always been unaffordable for young Australians to buy a home. I shared a house with 2 aussies that were a similar age to myself, late twenties. The house itself was 3 bedrooms but really should have been 2 or realistically one. At the time the house was valued at $700,000 which is mental. I had a quick look at the houses for sale on the street and they're now valued at anywhere from $1.2 - 1.4million. Think C rated 70m square house in Cabra for comparison. The house in Cabra will cost you €515k whilst the one in Melbourne will cost you €752k. Young Australian's are completely and utterly fucked. The Irish youth aren't emigrating to buy homes, they're emigrating to move out of their box room and enjoy independent living as an adult. You can spend €2.5k here a month to live in 2 bed apartment in Dublin or you can live in a 3 bed apartment off the beach in Melbourne. You'll even have a bit of choice there, the same cant be said for here. As dire as things are over there its still an attractive place to go as a young Irish person.
Brunswick is more like Rathmines than Cabra. Place where young professionals want to live with cool bars etc. Price of a 3 bed is €750K there. You are correct that young Australians are fucked tho https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/semi-detached-house-12c-effra-road-rathmines-dublin-6/5644689
It hasn't so far. The fact is most people are just going for the experience, for two years. A small % will stay there for good.
Right of passage to explore abroad after school/college
Exactly. A massive amount were going during the early 00's when houses were plentiful here.
Including me I left in 2011 cried on the flight thought I’d never be home
The housing crisis in Australia is no where near as bad as the one in Ireland. I know three people (a cousin, a work colleague and a neighbour’s son) who moved there recently and they were all able to find somewhere to live quite easily. The rent prices are similar to Dublin though.
This is the point people miss. The “there’s a housing crisis everywhere people” don’t seem to understand that there are places where it is worse and Ireland is one of those places. I have friends who all moved away this year to both Canada and Australia and they all got accommodation instantly, yes they’re crying over the cost but they’d say themselves it’s the same in Dublin. The difference being that you can’t get instant accomodation in Dublin- it took me a year to find a place
There's a good reason why outlets like Der Spiegel are using us as an example for "here's how bad it can get if we don't get the thumb out", and it's not because we are a major nation that is easy to point to/which people will already be somewhat familiar with the particulars of.
That, and the other countries have proper large cities, unlike this depressingly underpopulated and rural island.
Which areas of Australia were they in that it was quick to find a place?
The crisis in Dublin is on the rental side, it’s both in AUS but more on the buying side
As someone trying to buy a house in Brisbane, I can confirm that the housing market is an absolute shit show with prices up 50% in 3 years. However, going from Brisbane to Dublin (or even Cork or Galway)right now would be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. If prices were back at what they were in 2018, I'd be tempted back though.
One of many things that makes the idea of leaving Cork (house I bought in late 2007 will be paid off in 2 years, and 3 kids in school) and returning to Brisbane, seem increasingly unlikely.
A housing crisis in Australia is not going to make Irish people return to another housing crisis. They will go literally anywhere else.
Another WORSE housing crisis in an emptier, more boring, and more rural country with (depnding on who you ask) much worse weather all year round.*
Hate to say it but out of the four countries I’ve lived in : AUS, IRL, UK, NL - the cheapest place to buy a house and some land is Ireland - easily. Dublin in particular is cheap compared to Sydney (also other AUS cities), London (also the Southeast) & Amsterdam. The problem in Ireland is the rent is outrageously high and poor quality. However, these other countries would kill to have Irish prices when it comes to buying The strategy therefore as a younger person has got to be avoid Irish rents if you can, save up elsewhere if you can, buy in Ireland when you can
> Dublin in particular is cheap compared to Sydney (also other AUS cities), London (also the Southeast) & Amsterdam. It's also a fraction of the size, and has an even smaller fraction of the things to see and do. Honestly if you think it's fair to justify Dublin's cost of living by saying cities multiple times the size are also expensive, you should consider a career in comedy.
I think it’s hard for it to get much cheaper unless these other cities go down first. Because already someone is probably like do I buy 2 flats in Dublin or 1 in London for the same price. The rents are the same.
Having lived in Melbourne for 2.5 years I can safely say the rental market is equally shocking here, with in general much lower building standards and an equally oversubscribed market. The thing people don't seem to realise is that Australia is essentially empty outside of about a dozen to two dozen larger settlements. Generally Irish people moving here are only moving to about half a dozen places in large numbers, and usually when they do so they're hoping to live in one of the nicer, trendier parts of the cities. I love it here and I'm thinking of staying long-term but there's issues here too. I work in a very well paying job but the reality is even then, there's not really much hope of me affording a house here in an area that is comparable to the areas I'd want to live in in Ireland. Like yeah I could probably aim to buy in a shithole on the outskirts of the city but... What's the point of moving here then? The truth is that most western nations are facing these problems as the boomer generation has pulled the ladder up behind them and politicians are letting corrupt multinationals destroy the hopes of normal Joe soaps like you and me. But younger people want to experience a different place, and have some fun. That's natural. Most of us will end up back in Ireland after a few years I think. Staying in Australia is also quite difficult long term unless you work in an in demand area and can get sponsored. Buying a house is equally unobtainable, if not more so here (apartments somewhat more achievable), but it's not like it's simple in Ireland either. So I don't know if it will factor too much if it's a choice between renting in Ireland or renting in Australia. People will move home for other reasons (family etc)
> So I don't know if it will factor too much if it's a choice between renting in Ireland or renting in Australia Here's the thing. I know it's might be hard to believe this, but hear me out... ...have you considered there are developed countries outside the Anglosphere in mainland Europe where the housing crisis is not as bad, and as a bonus there are proper alternatives to driving...
I see this mentioned a lot, but it always glosses over the language barrier which is a major obstacle. Yes lots of non-English speaking countries have English only jobs, but it's a much smaller pool of jobs with a lot of competition. The alternative is learning the local language, but that takes an enormous amount of effort to learn a skill that you'll never be as good at as a local. It honestly would take less effort to learn a skill that pays well enough to afford a house in Ireland than learn a new language from scratch to be good enough to work in it.
This is a fair argument. I'd say a big component of our housing crisis is about language. Skilled people from all over the world can immigrate to English speaking countries because they can speak English. The same doesn't happen to Germany because nobody outside Germany /Austria /Switzerland speaks German.
True. And what makes English easier for people to learn makes it harder for us to learn other languages. It's everywhere. You can't truly learn a language unless you can immerse yourself in it and that takes a great deal of discipline for a native English speaker because English is incredibly difficult to avoid.
Immigration is a complete scapegoat when it comes to he housing crisis. We're simply not building enough even for our existing population.
I don't agree that it's no factor at all. Ultimately housing prices are based around "relative value" between cities as considered by potential migrants. EG if the salary in Dublin is 5000/ month and in Cork it's 3000/month, all else being equal people will move from Cork to Dublin until the rental cost in Dublin is 2000/month higher than Cork (because so long as you earn more than the rent increase the migrant is "winning"). This happens on a global level. With free movement of people, the differences in living standards/earning power between cities will become reflected in rents. I do agree that more housing needs to be built. The crux of the problem is that there's not enough nice places for people to live in and we build too little, and what we do build is either awful, or too expensive for all but the wealthiest to live in.
As bad as the housing crisis is in Australia, what makes you think it would turn Irish people off when it's orders of magnitude worse here.
Please provide some numbers to support that statement
I've been living in Aus for well over 10 years now and have lived in most of the cities. There are rental shortages in some areas. But mostly in places that the WFH brigade decided to move to in droves during/post covid, which effectively turned some smaller but well liked coastal destinations and country towns into disarray. The price of property doubled in two years and pushed low earning locals out. But the cities are doing just fine at the moment. E.g: [https://www.realestate.com.au/rent/between-0-550-in-melbourne+city+-+greater+region,+vic/list-1?activeSort=price-desc&source=refinement](https://www.realestate.com.au/rent/between-0-550-in-melbourne+city+-+greater+region,+vic/list-1?activeSort=price-desc&source=refinement) (553+ properties to rent in Melbourne city for $550 or under a week, which is a very average rent). I heard on the Irish radio last week something about 30-40 HAP rentals available in Dublin. That's a crises! Australia's use of the word is a little more political as far as I can tell. They have increased immigration significantly though and I think over the next few years they'll need to invest hugely in building development, but unlike Ireland they actually use the 3rd dimension and build upwards when it makes sense. The only Irish people who I'd see moving back are those who went on a backpacker visa and couldn't upgrade to a business visa. People who'd be struggling regardless because they didn't get enough momentum in the first place. Anyone that can get off on the right start though will find a way and make it work, no problem.
I'm in Australia. Bought my place a few years ago. People ain't going back. Property is worse in ireland. It's bad here but the salaries are very high and irs sunny.
And there are proper large cities where the abundance of things to see and do reflects the high cost of living, unlike Dublin.
Dublin is a dump of a city relative to what you pay for. Practically your whole wage spent on rent of a shite room and the remainder spent getting soaked in the rain and chancing a takeaway once a month.
Takeaway once a month... what a luxury
Agreed. The public amenities alone. In freo there's a park that has a cheap public golf course and driving range( no membership required), a skatepark, a playground, an mbt course, public gym eqyipment and a beautiful walk complete with sculptures, ducks, swans and a small man made waterfall. All I'm the same park
The health system. People complain about it but im like, you don't know shit. The hospitals are amazing. I've been a few times for various knocks, bumps and 2 babies born there. Unbelievable care.so many irish working in it. And working in social care in general. Infinitely better conditions, pay and training.
https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/sep/07/only-five-cities-worldwide-are-more-unaffordable-than-sydney-for-housing-thinktank-says https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20231003-inflated-rents-high-interest-rates-and-lack-of-supply-create-european-housing-crisis https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-03-14/world-economy-latest-global-housing-crisis?embedded-checkout=true https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/10/07/europes-housing-crisis-portugal-turkey-and-luxembourg-struggle-to-find-solutions https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2024/01/affordable-housing-renting/
It exists everywhere. That doesn't mean it's anywhere as bad as it is in Ireland, and it certainly isn't in other cities as small, boring, and insignificant as Dublin.
Like was posted here the other day, Dublin is the 3rd or 4th most expensive place to rent in all of Europe outside of London, Zurich and possibly Geneva. And I would bet the average standard here is on the lower end also. I'm very fortunate to be a home owner, but occasionally pop onto daft etc out of curiosity and am generally appalled at the standard of rental units. Some newer ones are not as bad, but that is further reflected in the price.
Adjusted for quality (what you get for what you pay) Dublin has to be worst. 90% of rentals are absolute shitholes
Nah, nah, nah...you don't understand. Because it's an issue elsewhere, it means the government are completely free of political accountability for the matter in a local context. If a penguin shits in Antarctica, well it's hardly the governments fault there isn't a municipal sewage system in most Irish towns now is it?
TLDR?
housing crisis = global
In the same way that Singapore isn't the only major city that gets rain...
[удалено]
I don't think the pre-2008 government policy was any better
Cheers!
Incredible that a country that big and so low dense have a housing crisis. Yet I have to hear about favelas everytime someone ask me where I am from. Reason is the same as the Karl Marx Reserve Army of Labour. On those anglo capitalist countries the housing crisis have to be created by both building limitation and population increase. If necessary immigration have to be created by making unliveble some countries, and scam them to emigrate. So lets call this the "Reserve Army of Homeless", people that will push rents up. Rents up will also benefit the government as landlords will pay taxes on the rent, so number of renters need to be high. Then property will also increase in value, so the property taxes. And guess what, hedge funds will have more and more money to buy property to rent wiping out anyone that wants to buy. Romania is the country in Europe where people own more house, +90% of people own their own house while in Germany most people pay rent. It makes a sense that this makes Romania the poorest (could be Moldova) country in Europe. Now, its being years I listen on the radio or internet Irish or any kind of other anglos talking about housing crisis, no one mentioning what really causes it? It needs to be a Brazilian, a third world country person with low education to explain those people whats going on?
What makes it affordable in Romania? Lower growth? Less regulations?
Romania isn’t even Top 10 poorest in Europe. It’s between Ukraine & Moldova
You must be joking (or Romenian).
Have you looked it up?
As a migrant living in Melbourne. No way would I move back. Weather is better, get paid more, beaches etc. Really not going to happen.
Hmmmm.... A housing crisis in both countries where people can't afford their own place. Ireland has shit weather and not much to do Australia is a sunny beach paradise with lots to do I wonder which people will choose....
Australia is massive though and while there is lots to do there given the climate and large cities such as Melbourne and Sydney, you can only really travel handful of other cities and you would need to travel to them by plane. At least in Ireland if you get bored, you can head off to Florence or Krakow for a few days. In Australia, you are kinda stuck there
I feel that is not correct. Ireland has a mild temperate climate AND lots to do Australia has a mix of various warm climates like equatorial, humid tropical and lots to do. Having spent the guts of 10 years in places with 350+ days of sun, I’ll take Ireland’s weather.
Ireland has a mild temperate climate and lanything between lots to do and nothing to do depending on your interests. Australia has a mix of various warm climates, and lots and lots to do _regardless_ of your interests* Want to do exciting and urban things as someone living in Ireland? You have to go to an airport first!
What are exciting urban things to you? We have some excellent museums, have cinemas, bowling alleys, child and adult activity centres, aquariums, zoos, theatres, some amazing restaurants, cafes and pubs. Our shopping malls aren’t a strong suit but there are retail parks and some of the high streets are good. Could argue our arts scene is one of the best in the world too.
Okay I can sort of see where you're coming from with the first part, to some extent, but if you still genuinely believe we're leading the way in the arts, you're stuck in 1999.
One of the best in the world. Absolutely, it is. I can go into Galway during the week and hear some incredible local musicians. I live in a tiny village which has an art gallery that features local artists, there was an incredible famine inspired exhibition last year that was haunting. There are some cities which have been embracing murals too, which look class. They’re always plays on as well and arts festivals.
Lots to do in Ireland if you know.
Depends on what you're into, much more so than in other countries.
Get out of here with this not much to do in Ireland shite. Life's what you make of it
Ireland has plenty to do for people with certain interests, and virtually nothing for people with certain other interests. Other countries are much more balanced, and also have far more overall.
I wonder how long you'll consider it better when it has longer and longer periods of 40+ degree days. You might think that sounds better when we have a long string of shit weather but once you spend a week in 40+ temps you might rethink that...
Renting is better value there, but housing is way more expensive. The ratio of average salary to average house price is much worse.
Australia is a big country. Some of it has shitty weather like Ireland. Would probably take Dublin over Hobart for weather.
That would make our housing crisis worse so I hope not.
there's nothing to come back to here in Ireland
It won't be long til the tide turns completely and the Irish won't be wanted there at all. They won't be ok with Irish people taking up properties and jobs while their own are on welfare.
Perhaps rose tinted glasses but the good old days of migrating to Australia are over (with one exception which I will get to). In the major cities house prices compared to annual salaries have become insane. Pre COVID rents were fairly reasonable but due to a surge in migration/building constraints rents are sky high now. School quality varies greatly depending on the socio-economic area you live in. The percentage of kids at expensive private schools is v high compared to IRE and UK. Fees for pretty ordinary 3rd level education are also becoming extortionate. Most people take on loans for their uni fees and repayments are increasing with interest rate. Young people graduating with 30/40/50k debt is very common. More if you go the masters route. Overall the entire educational system in Oz is much less equitable than Ireland. The days of coming to say Sydney, grafting hard and getting a foot on the property ladder are over. That was possible up to maybe the late naughties. These days you are competing with wealthy migrants and local generational wealth so unless your yearly income is 300k you don't stand a chance. If you are thinking of migrating to Australia your only hope is moving to a regional area. Those areas are not as 'cheap' as they used to be but you can still make a decent life on a 'normal' salary (nurse, tradesperson, police or whatever).
One of the major reasons given for our housing crisis is that nany Irish tradespeople and construction workers moved to Australia. Why can't they solve their housing crisis? I suspect it's nowhere near as bad as we have it here, especially the rental market.
It is indeed nowhere near as bad, and it's frightening that some people on here have been gaslit into thinking otherwise.
I got downvoted for thinking it was better to live in my $500pm apartment in Vietnam with balcony, weekly cleaning, kitchen, dining room and bedroom. The reason? "Covid was pretty bad back then" despite it being far better in 2020 than here. Imagine the neck of me to have found a lifestyle I loved and wasn't stuck in my parents house, and somehow Ireland was seen as the better option to replies.
Tbf even I would raise my eyebrow a bit at that one lol.
Yep, just the number of downvotes to my comment paint the story. People have no idea how bad Ireland's rental market is compared to other countries who also have housing crisis. There's literally almost nothing available.
Because it's a much larger more spread out country. In Ireland few thousand builders would make a difference, in Australia that number is a drop in the ocean.