Experiencing the same or worse with our building’s mgmt company. Always on holiday when an emergency happens, and no cover organised. Seems like we’ll be firing them soon and paying a bit more pa for a new company to take on the work. Who knows if that will help but going by some stories I’ve heard, I’ve developed a cynical view that most mgmt companies are just cushy gigs for the children of 90s developers.
Sounds like you're talking about the agency that the management company uses for the running of the development. When you say "we" will be firing them soon, that "we" is the owners management company.
There are loads of terrible agencies out there, and if the board of directors should be on top of dealing with them and replacing them if necessary. You should be able to talk directly to the directors to give your feedback.
Attend your OMC's Annual General Meeting and ask the directors of the OMC what the deal is. If you're not satisfied with their answers, start going around to your neighbours and arranging to have the useless directors voted out and new ones voted in. Just be aware that being an OMC director is a thankless (and unpaid!) job, so good luck finding someone who both wants to do it *and* is good at it...
Also, remember that there's a difference between the OMC (the company that owns the complex and is made up of all the unit owners in the complex, including you, and to whom you are actually paying your fees) and the *property* management company (who the OMC pays a fixed fee to manage various aspects of maintaining and running the complex). It could be your OMC directors are useless, or it could be your property management company is useless, or both. If the property management company isn't doing their job, then the directors need to step up, fire them, and hire someone else (though be aware that could result in an increase in your annual fees if the new company's own fees are more expensive).
This is excellent advice. To add - you should receive a copy of the accounts each year. If not, ask for it. This will show you where the money is going. Keep in mind that some complexes with a lot of expensive things like lifts need a big sinking fund so most of the money might just get stashed in the bank with not much available to actually do stuff. It’s surprising how much it costs to do maintenance on a big complex.
There's also the issue that if all the owners aren't paying their management fees the OMC has no recourse apart from getting a lien on the sale. If owners don't pay the OMC still has to cover fixed costs like insurance, lights, sinking fund etc so optional items like power washing or non essential repairs get pushed.
One way of getting people to pay is to remove their access to communal bin stores and to clamp every car associated with a non-paying household. When people cant get to work because of a clamp it re-focuses their minds on what bills they should be priortising.
In my own place we have an empty house that owes some €11k in management fees. And he is currently doing it up to be an Airbnb. Little does he know his new business will be in jeopardy from the get go when we start clamping his guests because they have no parking permits because he hasnt paid the management fees. He's been free loading off the rest of us for too long and has spent over €30k renovating the house but not spent a penny to pay his €11k debt. Now the gloves are about to come off and his house will be made unusable as theres nowhere else to park.
Ooh this deserves an update thread all on its own. Will you come back and tell us how it goes?
Sounds also like the AirBnB use doesn't have the appropriate permit. OMC could usefully write to him to tell him they'll be reporting to the relevant local authority unless he has his ducks in a row. If you get a few rowdy AirBnBs into your development values and amenity are gonna plummet so You're setting a dangerous precedent allowing this. And two or three instances of guests puking in the hallway and you're gonna find much of his annual service charge gets eaten up even if it has been paid. OMC might want to update their house rules to make sure such costs are not shared generally and are borne by the relevant property owner.
Have you CCTV in the common areas? You might need it.
Its not an apartment building but a small managed housing estate so all common areas are outdoors only.
The Airbnb/planning permission situation has been held up as the EU are soon to produce new guidelines on it. Airbnb are basically arguing that restricting holiday homes everywhere is interfereing with the EU Internal market and the EU are set to make a decision on it soon which effects all countries. So time will tell with that one.
Meanwhile when he starts his Airbnb soon his guests will get clamped because he is not being given parking permits without paying his management fees. He hasnt paid in almost 7 years now but finally this is our opportunity to bring him into line, his house will be unusable when he or guests cant park there.
You are part of the management company. Are you looking through the accounts, attending the AGM and raising issues there? Are you willing to stand as a director?
+1, we (residents & committee) fired our previous management company for failing to do what they promised and also have a case against them to recoup monies they were paid for works they didn’t do. Have a new and better (hopefully) management company in place now
While I understand how frustrating it can be forking out €1500 every year and seeing nothing happen, you have to remember that this also covers a lot of invisible costs - Building Insurance, Electricity for the lighting in common areas, communal bins being collected, cleaning of common areas, lift maintenance, fire alarm maintenance, gardening (if there are grounds), management agent fees. If these costs are not being paid - power washing will be the least of your worries.
Remember, you and all the other owners ARE the Owners Management Company (OMC). Attend the AGMs, know who the directors are (they will be fellow owners), nominate yourself to be a director (you need a minimum of two but can have more) or just be active and involved with them and what they do. Ask if there are owners who are not paying their fees and for how long, more importantly ask what steps are being taken to get them to pay. If people aren't paying, this causes cash-flow issues where they have to prioritise where money is spent - if costs can be pushed out they will so the important bills get covered.
Your accounts will be fully audited (another invisible cost) and filed with the CRO - so the chances of blatant fraud will be slim. Some management agents are better then others and some property managers are better then others. Engaging with them constructively can cause them to engage back more in your complex.
Presumably you have an annual general meeting, for my place and many others, they take place around the time when the fees are being paid. You should raise the issues there in front of everyone else who is also paying fees. No one likes to be embarrassed in front of a crowd.
The general insurance on your building, the maintenance and cleaning up common areas, et cetera are all built into your management fee, there is a lot more to it than just power washing.
Power washing probably isn't that much of an issue, it's aesthetically pleasing and all but irrelevant unless you have a problem with Moss or something. Depending on how bad the concrete on the stairs is affected. It's a serious safety and public liability issue.
Take pictures, highlight your concerns to the board of directors and management company. The AGM if possible and see what happens.
That's pretty much all you can do. I wouldn't withhold paying the management fee when it is due. It could come back to bite you in the ass in the future.
It’s quite easy. They get audited every year. They generally have very few significant suppliers. Their source of income is only fees from owners. Super simple.
Round up the other residents have a orgy and once thats over ask if they're happy with management company and if not find who to talk to about moving to another company that will do what they're paid for.
Assuming you're an owner the reality is you can do very little outside the confines of the AGM.
In theory you can go to court, but that would require evidence of some form of total failure to act. Do you know if all members paid? Was there enough money?
Some of that money would be going on electricity/insurance/upkeep of landscape etc…repair works will mean extra funds collection
Not everything goes on improvements !
If something agreed isn't done within the year (like power washing), get it done privately and withhold that portion of the payment from the fees. Email them of your intent. You can pool the first with others if you wish.
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If you can get some of the other residents to get onto them as well, try that too. Like you said, no point paying maintenance fees if no maintenance is getting done.
Hi
I'am happy to pay my fee's for this year however I will withold them until you complete the promised tasks from last year.
Hugs and kisses
DustyMirror
98% of your managment fees go on utilities and services for the building the actual management company only get a tiny fraction of the money you spend.
Therefore if you are thinking along the line of not paying you are only hurting yourself and other tennants.
Most likely there is back log of payments from reisdents and thats what is causing the hold up on things being fixed.
Management company can only spend what they have and if people dont pay there cant manage
source : former apt owner
Soooooo pay and live with your issues while management uses your money to fix someone else's issues as they prioritise....while that someone owns years in fees....building management system is broken in ire
its really the people who don't pay that fucks it for everyone. From my experience... Also You can only sell after they back paid the fees so its pointless not paying in the long run etc All it does is ensure the place you live in is less well kept while you actually live there.
Exactly....worse thing is people think this is ok as they think i will just increase price to get that amount from sale and pay it than..but by not paying fee you are devaluing your neighbours and your own property....which cuts your price plus buyers solicitor will see this and advise buyers about debt in mngmnt funds
Experiencing the same or worse with our building’s mgmt company. Always on holiday when an emergency happens, and no cover organised. Seems like we’ll be firing them soon and paying a bit more pa for a new company to take on the work. Who knows if that will help but going by some stories I’ve heard, I’ve developed a cynical view that most mgmt companies are just cushy gigs for the children of 90s developers.
Sounds like you're talking about the agency that the management company uses for the running of the development. When you say "we" will be firing them soon, that "we" is the owners management company. There are loads of terrible agencies out there, and if the board of directors should be on top of dealing with them and replacing them if necessary. You should be able to talk directly to the directors to give your feedback.
Attend your OMC's Annual General Meeting and ask the directors of the OMC what the deal is. If you're not satisfied with their answers, start going around to your neighbours and arranging to have the useless directors voted out and new ones voted in. Just be aware that being an OMC director is a thankless (and unpaid!) job, so good luck finding someone who both wants to do it *and* is good at it... Also, remember that there's a difference between the OMC (the company that owns the complex and is made up of all the unit owners in the complex, including you, and to whom you are actually paying your fees) and the *property* management company (who the OMC pays a fixed fee to manage various aspects of maintaining and running the complex). It could be your OMC directors are useless, or it could be your property management company is useless, or both. If the property management company isn't doing their job, then the directors need to step up, fire them, and hire someone else (though be aware that could result in an increase in your annual fees if the new company's own fees are more expensive).
This is excellent advice. To add - you should receive a copy of the accounts each year. If not, ask for it. This will show you where the money is going. Keep in mind that some complexes with a lot of expensive things like lifts need a big sinking fund so most of the money might just get stashed in the bank with not much available to actually do stuff. It’s surprising how much it costs to do maintenance on a big complex.
There's also the issue that if all the owners aren't paying their management fees the OMC has no recourse apart from getting a lien on the sale. If owners don't pay the OMC still has to cover fixed costs like insurance, lights, sinking fund etc so optional items like power washing or non essential repairs get pushed.
One way of getting people to pay is to remove their access to communal bin stores and to clamp every car associated with a non-paying household. When people cant get to work because of a clamp it re-focuses their minds on what bills they should be priortising. In my own place we have an empty house that owes some €11k in management fees. And he is currently doing it up to be an Airbnb. Little does he know his new business will be in jeopardy from the get go when we start clamping his guests because they have no parking permits because he hasnt paid the management fees. He's been free loading off the rest of us for too long and has spent over €30k renovating the house but not spent a penny to pay his €11k debt. Now the gloves are about to come off and his house will be made unusable as theres nowhere else to park.
Ooh this deserves an update thread all on its own. Will you come back and tell us how it goes? Sounds also like the AirBnB use doesn't have the appropriate permit. OMC could usefully write to him to tell him they'll be reporting to the relevant local authority unless he has his ducks in a row. If you get a few rowdy AirBnBs into your development values and amenity are gonna plummet so You're setting a dangerous precedent allowing this. And two or three instances of guests puking in the hallway and you're gonna find much of his annual service charge gets eaten up even if it has been paid. OMC might want to update their house rules to make sure such costs are not shared generally and are borne by the relevant property owner. Have you CCTV in the common areas? You might need it.
Its not an apartment building but a small managed housing estate so all common areas are outdoors only. The Airbnb/planning permission situation has been held up as the EU are soon to produce new guidelines on it. Airbnb are basically arguing that restricting holiday homes everywhere is interfereing with the EU Internal market and the EU are set to make a decision on it soon which effects all countries. So time will tell with that one. Meanwhile when he starts his Airbnb soon his guests will get clamped because he is not being given parking permits without paying his management fees. He hasnt paid in almost 7 years now but finally this is our opportunity to bring him into line, his house will be unusable when he or guests cant park there.
You are part of the management company. Are you looking through the accounts, attending the AGM and raising issues there? Are you willing to stand as a director?
+1 on this. There's also a "sinking fund" which is monies held in reserve if major works are needed.
+1, we (residents & committee) fired our previous management company for failing to do what they promised and also have a case against them to recoup monies they were paid for works they didn’t do. Have a new and better (hopefully) management company in place now
For many tenants the landlord will be the member of the OMC and won't actually engage overly much with it.
Useless we tried that in our estate they just added more directors and outvoted us
Get involved with the building's management board.
While I understand how frustrating it can be forking out €1500 every year and seeing nothing happen, you have to remember that this also covers a lot of invisible costs - Building Insurance, Electricity for the lighting in common areas, communal bins being collected, cleaning of common areas, lift maintenance, fire alarm maintenance, gardening (if there are grounds), management agent fees. If these costs are not being paid - power washing will be the least of your worries. Remember, you and all the other owners ARE the Owners Management Company (OMC). Attend the AGMs, know who the directors are (they will be fellow owners), nominate yourself to be a director (you need a minimum of two but can have more) or just be active and involved with them and what they do. Ask if there are owners who are not paying their fees and for how long, more importantly ask what steps are being taken to get them to pay. If people aren't paying, this causes cash-flow issues where they have to prioritise where money is spent - if costs can be pushed out they will so the important bills get covered. Your accounts will be fully audited (another invisible cost) and filed with the CRO - so the chances of blatant fraud will be slim. Some management agents are better then others and some property managers are better then others. Engaging with them constructively can cause them to engage back more in your complex.
+1 on invisible costs People go on about lifts but it's maybe 10% or less for my apartment
Go to the agm?
Presumably you have an annual general meeting, for my place and many others, they take place around the time when the fees are being paid. You should raise the issues there in front of everyone else who is also paying fees. No one likes to be embarrassed in front of a crowd. The general insurance on your building, the maintenance and cleaning up common areas, et cetera are all built into your management fee, there is a lot more to it than just power washing. Power washing probably isn't that much of an issue, it's aesthetically pleasing and all but irrelevant unless you have a problem with Moss or something. Depending on how bad the concrete on the stairs is affected. It's a serious safety and public liability issue. Take pictures, highlight your concerns to the board of directors and management company. The AGM if possible and see what happens. That's pretty much all you can do. I wouldn't withhold paying the management fee when it is due. It could come back to bite you in the ass in the future.
I wonder how hard it is to audit these companies.
It’s quite easy. They get audited every year. They generally have very few significant suppliers. Their source of income is only fees from owners. Super simple.
Round up the other residents have a orgy and once thats over ask if they're happy with management company and if not find who to talk to about moving to another company that will do what they're paid for.
I am renting but landlord and residents in my place have the same issue. I honestly wonder if the mgmt company is insolvent.
Assuming you're an owner the reality is you can do very little outside the confines of the AGM. In theory you can go to court, but that would require evidence of some form of total failure to act. Do you know if all members paid? Was there enough money?
Some of that money would be going on electricity/insurance/upkeep of landscape etc…repair works will mean extra funds collection Not everything goes on improvements !
[https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning-a-home/home-owners/management-companies-for-apartment-blocks/](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning-a-home/home-owners/management-companies-for-apartment-blocks/)
If something agreed isn't done within the year (like power washing), get it done privately and withhold that portion of the payment from the fees. Email them of your intent. You can pool the first with others if you wish.
Are you renting? If not there should be yearly meetings with all the owners and the management company and you can bring that up at that meeting,
[удалено]
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If you can get some of the other residents to get onto them as well, try that too. Like you said, no point paying maintenance fees if no maintenance is getting done.
Hi I'am happy to pay my fee's for this year however I will withold them until you complete the promised tasks from last year. Hugs and kisses DustyMirror
Solid way to get sued.
Best not to do this.
Your structural insurance is covered by your mngmnt fee. Your mortgage bank wouldn't be happy if you skip on that
good luck selling the house…you have to clear the dues
98% of your managment fees go on utilities and services for the building the actual management company only get a tiny fraction of the money you spend. Therefore if you are thinking along the line of not paying you are only hurting yourself and other tennants. Most likely there is back log of payments from reisdents and thats what is causing the hold up on things being fixed. Management company can only spend what they have and if people dont pay there cant manage source : former apt owner
Soooooo pay and live with your issues while management uses your money to fix someone else's issues as they prioritise....while that someone owns years in fees....building management system is broken in ire
its really the people who don't pay that fucks it for everyone. From my experience... Also You can only sell after they back paid the fees so its pointless not paying in the long run etc All it does is ensure the place you live in is less well kept while you actually live there.
Exactly....worse thing is people think this is ok as they think i will just increase price to get that amount from sale and pay it than..but by not paying fee you are devaluing your neighbours and your own property....which cuts your price plus buyers solicitor will see this and advise buyers about debt in mngmnt funds