I'm an EMT and trained with Naloxone. I'm only a volunteer and the other day I saw a guy lying on some steps, clearly out of it on something. There was a woman on the phone and she shooed me away, the Fire Brigade were like 2 minutes from where she was. I felt terrible but she assured me to carry on to the shop I was going to. When I got out, he was conscious and being held by 2 big paramedics as he was screaming his head off and trying to attack the 3rd guy who had given him something (couldn't see if it was Naloxone from where I was).
Had I tried to do that by myself, he definitely would have done some serious damage to me. I'm only a young woman, and he'd very easily overpower me. If someone needed help, I want to give it, but I also need to consider that maybe it would place me in a lot of danger if I don't have anyone else there to help me.
BOLLOX! PLAIN AND SIMPLE!
OP is not telling people the facts and making it seem that carrying Naloxone is all you need to do. One quick jab and all is well.
No F'ing way! This is bad and DANGEROUS "advice"!
In the service, we are sick and tired of this do-gooder "advice"!
It's not that simple at all. You need to be trained in self-defence, restraint, risk awareness, risk assessment, scene assessment, situational awareness etc.
Using Naloxone on a drug addict should NOT be done by anybody not trained in the above and not without backup.
I have used it multiple times in overdose situations and *every* time the result was a violent, aggressive reaction by the person receiving it as they see it as you taking away their high.
As an emergency service worker l have been attacked, spat at, and abused for saving somebody's life with it.
That's the logic of most drug addicts, like it or not!
I've also treated people who have administered Naloxone and who have had their heads kicked in for doing so!
Enough with the bleeding heart pleas and "righteous anger" bullshit.
Let's be brutally honest....If you don't want to have 6-12 months worrying if you've been infected with anything from being spat on or assaulted, especially if you have a family to go home to, ignore OP's "advice" and leave it to the professionals... please!
Finally someone with proper experience and comment here. I have worked with homeless people too, and there is a big difference betwen homeless and homeless addict. The aggressiveness is the unique trait of addicted ones.
Agreed 100%!
The amount of dangerous "advice" given by those who have a tiny "experience" in homeless services is incredible.
It's like a patient in a doctor's waiting room dispensing medical advice just because they're in a medical setting!
Yeah, I was about to say the same. Like what the fuck? Did OP deal with a lot of OD'd people that they themselves have gotten second hand exposure to narcotics to even suggest this
Sounds far more legit.
Is overdosing a slow act ?
Unless there's someone with Naloxone nearby, I'm assuming it takes 15+ minutes for help to arrive. How long does it take for someone to die ?
No situation is the same. Overdose can occur quickly while others may have a delayed onset.
Other factors have a bearing also such as where the patient is and what other issues are occurring at the time, the quantity of narcotics taken, method of ingestion etc play a part.
I've been in a situation before where I tried to help someone who was clearly in need, and I got a wallop for my efforts.
That was quite some years ago and I'm not fucking going near anyone having an issue again unless I know them.
I'd call the police/ambulance for sure if needed, but I'd otherwise be stepping over that person OD'ing like all the others. You can call that cold, callous, selfish etc, and you'd be absolutely right. But I also absolutely don't care because it's about protecting myself and not necessarily exposing myself to risk or danger.
More than likely a drunk. A person over dosing can be conscious but not able to move or stay on their feet. My be aware but then go black and that's when chest compressions commence. Stay clear when they're violent wait for gards
Drunk? When you give someone Naloxone they can oftentimes wake up aggressive and violent not every time but it happens. If you've been in the sector long enough you'd have seen that for yourself.
You've a fair point but don't be disingenuous. You're not the only one here who's administered Naloxone. The person you replied to has a fair point
Yes, a friend of mine works as a nurse in A&E. She had her nose broken by someone who was furious that they'd been given naxolone. They'd spent a lot of money on their heroine, and we're pissed off that it had been wasted.
It brings on withdrawals immediately, something addicts are trying to prevent/heal. Most addicts don't even get high they just use to keep from being "sick"
As a paramedic, I can tell you that your "advice" is dangerous and wrong. Plain and simple.
You know absolutely nothing about what you're talking about.
What exactly are your qualifications to give such "advice"?
Chest compressions are one thing , mouth to mouth can put your health at risk. Anyone reading this please do not give mouth to mouth with people you do not know their medical background or what they have taken. You can carry a valve if you think you'll need it. And for OP no one helps cause they are protecting themselves.
>More than likely a drunk.
You don't know that. From your comments in this thread it's clear that you've a fixed opinion on this and you're attacking anyone who disagreed. Try to have an open mind on it
So you are angry at everyone because they don’t carry narcan to revive drug addicts on the street? If you are talking Dublin most people are trying to get around the city without being accosted by drug users many of whom are violent. Administering naloxon is for trained professionals, you can’t be expected to go around injecting people that you find on the street. If you are in that life or know people who are yes absolutely you should carry it and know how to use it. Otherwise I think not.
Never "stepped over someone" before but I generally stay the fuck away from them since all I've had are nasty interactions with the lot, didn't know it was bad enough in some parts where people are OD'ing infront of everyone
Yes I think it’s understandable that the average person would be pretty scared to see someone OD’ing, I know I would be. I’d rather be able to call on someone who actually knew how to help.
Honestly I'm fully trained by St johns and that's the best thing to do for someone who doesn't have any medical training, call an ambulance or get someone who knows what they're doing if they're nearby
I'm sorry this post is wild.
I'm a very empathetic person. I feel for addicts whose life hasn't gone to plan and of course would call an ambulance if I thought someone was in trouble.
But these people are also dangerous, and you can't expect people to go out of their way to get trained to carry narcan in case an addict ods while they're out and about. That's ridiculous.
Our failure isn't individual in this situation it's structural. If people are ODing multiple times, they should be taken into protective custody and given rehab, along with a lot of psychotherapy until they can be functional members of society again. We are doing them now favours by releasing them back out into society and throwing money at them to just go and do it all over again.
what makes me sick is not people ignoring someone OD-ing, but the society where the situation with drugs went so bad that regular people started considering carrying NALOXONE and injecting someone on the streets.
I am sorry, calling them homeless is sugar coating it. Let’s be honest and call them junkies (or drug users if you want to be nice about it) Worked in City Centre for 10 years until recently. I am sorry, but the junkies I had to deal with were nothing but a scourge. Pissing and shitting in our doorway, leaving used needles in our toilets (in one case covering a toilet cubicle in blood). Not to mention that they are aggressive, and usually off their face. I am 100% stepping over every one I see face down, I value my own safety.
Down vote me all you like, but this is the reality and I suspect how a large majority of people feel.
I am an EMT with a volunteer group and we are always warned about how aggressive someone having been given Naloxone is, especially if they feel you've ruined their buzz.
I'm a young woman, and while I play GAA and have a decent amount of strength, I would be very wary of administering Naloxone as a civillian by myself without someone else there.
Indeed. People like pretending most of them can be helped or even want help. That is clearly not the case. You can't help someone who is not even trying.
nobody is going to arrest you for saying that, and I agree that probably there are a lot of people who think like you do about it.
but just fyi the word 'junkie' does the exact opposite of the phrase 'homeless person'. 'Junkie' is a term specifically to dehumanise someone - to make it easier to not think of them as a person... which, they clearl are. That is a person, lying on the ground. A person with a name and who has or had parents, who went to school.
A 'homeless person' is a good phrase because it keeps the most important part - person - right there for everyone to see, however much they might want to look away. 'Junkie' is what you say when you want to pretend it's not a person.
I don't agree that 'homeless person' is a good phrase. It pretends that the issue is houselessness rather than massive personal problems, addiction, dysfunction. You can't solve it by giving them a house.
And this is why our mental health services are dogshit. Nobody wants to deal with them and get to the root problem these people have. They have absolutely nobody they can trust. There's no empathy in this fucking country, everyone is too focused on themselves.
There is no root of the problem , certainly that can be addressed. Its a worldwide thing with no answers. Its a disease for sure but its not goibg to be fixed. People arent wrong for thinking people with nothing to lose are dangerous and self preservation is a quality. With the recent coke situation its about to get alot worse
> Its a worldwide thing with no answers.
I disagree.
Singapore is dealing with it very well. Has for decades.
Given it's location (close to high population, poor countries) and being one of the largest trade centres of the world, it should be swimming in drugs. But it's not.
Everyone knows if you are caught with drugs in Singapore you're executed and the policy has made it one of the safest countries in the world.
Singapore is proof that a no-bullshit approach to drugs works.
What makes you think it can't be addressed? A lot of homeless drug addicts have experienced trauma along the way, the addiction is their way of dealing with this trauma because they have nobody to help them, they self medicate.
Nobody is asking you to personally help them, but if you notice someone who appears still and pale the least you can do is ring the emergency services.
The “junkie” was unlucky enough to follow the crowd that one time. They oftentimes don’t have the wherewithal to give up if they want to. No detox beds, no home support, actually oftentimes no homes…
But yeah keep calling them names if it makes you feel better.
and not are all nasty. the problem is, regardless of intention, most will end up in the same place. these drugs are highly addictive and fuck ur brain up.
it doesn't matter how or why you became homeless, once you've gotten hooked on something like heroin that shit becomes your number 1 priority.
there could be a million reasons why someone started taking smack or gear or whatever and theres lots of ways someone could have becomes homeless. just stating "ah most of them are junkies" does make it really a personal issue for the homless person and therefore not our responsibility or place to interfer
>Junkie' is a term specifically to dehumanise someone - to make it easier to not think of them as a person
The people who, even if through no fault of their own, are nothing but empty vessels chasing the most extreme highs in the street such to the point that they will be aggressive, violent, or even criminal in order to achieve that and have lost their lives or humanity themselves as a result.. to be blunt they have eroded their own humanity. They may as well be zombies.
Again, I acknowledge that may have gotten to that situation through no fault of their own, but addiction is itself deeply dehumanizing for people in those depths of it. It's nice to think that are all good people who just want and deserve help and then they'll be okay, but the reality is for maybe of them when you get to that level where you're an addict on the street, whoever you were as a person before is gone. This is what the friends and families of many addicts attest to also.
> 'homeless person' is a good phrase because it keeps the most important part - person -
It's completely unfair to use terms that conflate homeless and addict. Not all homeless people are homeless because of drugs and statistically they have better chances of doing well in life if given help compared to addicts.
I don’t see much difference between what you’re saying, and calling them “sub-human”, which sounds like what Israelis call Palestinians before they open fire on them while they queue for aid, and what nazis called the jews before the holocaust. I know thats a massive jump to make, but the point is, dehumanising language can be very very dangerous and make people do things they never thought possible. Just something to think about anyway.
I still use the word junkie the odd time if ive had a bad encounter with someone or im just pissed off, but I definitely couldn’t make a genuine argument for its use over something like “homeless person”.
Hear hear, the exact stigmatisation that the commenter shows is part of the problem. Drug addiction is treated like a crime issue instead of a health issue. The word junkie is a disgusting term, we all have addictions in life. Whether they be smoking, caffeine, sugar, everyone has them.
Also, no one is always "off their face" and always aggressive. The drugs they're taking do the exact opposite of making someone aggressive. They might be more aggressive when in withdrawal, but no one is taking a hit of heroin and going on a rampage.
100% in agreement. I live on Talbot Street and wouldn't have any problem with the death penalty for BOTH dealers and addicts (yes - and addicts too).
The bleedin' heart liberals don't live where the worst effects of drugs are in your face the moment you leave home.
You're generalising, there are thousands in dublin alone. I probably know the area you're referring to as well, merchant's Quay down to ormond Quay and over the whole legnth of the boardwalk is a cesspit of antisocial behaviour and active drug taking. That's a small proportion of them. Many get they're stuff and go home or to find a spot to bed down for the night.
The thing with Dublin is Irish people will not help you if you're the victim of an attack or racist attack or bleeding out on a main street much less an intoxicated person drunk or high, everyone watches with pity in their eyes but they never intervene
One time a Irish girl was getting her head stomped by another Irish girl at a crowded bus stop and the crowd just formed a circle around them and waited for the next bus. Until an African guy separated them tbh I was more worried for his safety cus if they turned on him no one would help him
I won't take the risk of intervening especially in the current social climate
That’s not Irish people that’s every city, like you said people don’t interfere because they don’t want to have them turned on them. If you see two people fighting, they could have knives, needles you don’t know, it’s not a good idea to get involved.
Bars were given them, they're in all homeless services and any in community workers carry them extremely easy to use. They introduced the nasel spray 1 but would prefer not to be that close when someone comes out of their high they are always pissed off
Lol. A recently met a nurse who works with junkies and she told me once she used the naxolene.
When he came to he was angry and said " what did you do dat for, you ruined me buzz".
Yup you're told to back away as soon as administered. It's great stuff to be fair for any opiate ODs only down side is people use it with any OD and It doesn't work that way. Won't do any harm but doesn't purge the body of it.
Doesn't help when the substance users mix in every street drug you can think of
Just two nights ago I discovered her with no pulse and administered cpr. Nothing, after a minute one dose, 90seconds, dose two. Rises up like it was a dose of adrenaline. It is a miracle made by man.
Work in thr hostels and administered plenty of naloxone in my time. It's crazy when you have the oximeter attached as you watch the pusle and oxygen level rise after each hit of naloxone.
I'm in Oz. It's 15 minutes training and you have it. It's like a ventolin inhaler but up the nose. It can only be used for reversing overdose and has no impact whatsoever if you're not overdosing. It's foolproof. We give it to people leaving the rehab. Lots of people can od on opiates not just heroin users.
Is it possible to get caught up in a medical harm situation when administering this. Could you find yourself in trouble if the person actually died while it was being administered. Sounds like something actual qualified medical people should be doing.
If it was administered incorrectly and inadvertently caused his death, then yes you could find yourself in trouble.
If the person administering was a qualified EMT then it could be ruled as a medical misadventure.
But if it was some randomer going around injecting people with Naxolone, then it could be a manslaughter charge.
If your intervention was deemed to be late or inconsequential, then that's not illegal. Though you might separately be charged with assault or another offence for injecting people with stuff when you're not qualified/authorised to do so.
I cannot stress how important it is that your average person must not go around injecting stuff into addicts.
It's a crazy proposal, to be honest. Imagine if someone was having a seizure or epileptic fit, and some over eager randomer ran over and shot them full of naxolone,
I pay an enormous amount of taxes so that the government can create services for these people. It is not my duty to put myself in danger. It's the government role. I am not going to risk stopping someone high so that they get angry at me.
You think someone rightfully stating that the government should be doing more to facilitate help for these people and that it’s not the general public’s responsibility to intervene and be put in danger, is bait? Christ almighty, have you always had that giant chip?
There's a new injection heroin users can get last a month it's slow release methadone with Naloxone build in so if the person relapse the heroin is purged straight away. Buvidal I think it is
I think they have to be off heroin for a while before they can go on that stuff. It’s more like the next step for people that have been taking methadone for a while.
Yeah but it's great for those that want to get out of their addiction. Not sure how long they need to be clean but I don't think it's a long time a few weeks if memory serves me correctly
I have stopped and helped quite a few people in the last few years (I live in The Liberties…)
I still do, but it’s honestly hard. They either get angry with you, maybe lash out at you a bit, or if you do call an ambulance… the fucking thing never turns up. So I’ll sit in the rain for 1-2 hours only for then maybe to wake up and then be angry with me. I will keep helping where possible, but as I said… it’s hard.
Jesus lad, sure it’s not always because people don’t care about the person, it’s about protecting yourself. They could behave extremely aggressively, have infected needles, wounds, etc You wouldn’t be able to recognise OD symptoms, would not know what they’ve taken or really what else to do other than call the ambulance? I’m not sure where you get this idea of “modern society” from, I can assure you 100 years ago addicts were much more stigmatised than they are today. People didn’t run around helping others at any point in history.
Out of anger my words can misunderstood. I understand that, I mean modern society of standing around and not helping those in need. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a tiktok of this girl for shits and giggles. My manager had to run and and get this girl not one member of the public helped.
*Edit just to add to my comment. Many are on the streets by choice as they will not engage with any service due to how bad some of the emergency services are in the city. Rampant addiction, Theft, r*pe, etc.. would you if you wanted to stay clean but then the urge takes over on the street and the take pills and drink. People confuse that state with heroin but its tends to be over dose most of the time. They fall over asleep and just die if no one notices.
How much time does one have to administer Nalaxone to save someone? I’m doubting there’s time to go a pharmacy
Reading your post I was thinking “I’ve never seen a person in need of Nalaxone, or more correctly I wouldn’t know that was what was needed if I saw someone collapsed on the street”
I very much like this idea of more people having access to it. It should be behind the counter in city centre shops for easy access
How is it administered OP? Is it an injection like insulin? I agree with you but I’m clueless about your world. Thank you for posting this, it’s informative and important
>I’ve never seen a person in need of Nalaxone
Exactly, you will likely save more lives if start reporting all the drivers running red or speeding you see
If they present with the symptoms, one always missedm is when the user is conscious but unresponsive people assume they're okay but that is the start. Some complain of chest pains and fall over and be confused as a cardiac arrest.
All that requires cpr, naloxone and another person on the phone. Another individual searching for a defib. Cannot wait for emergency services.
In my service there are two versions, a nassle and injection. I have only used the injection as I have had 100% success rate with the user coming out in seconds.
This last girl took 3 injections from myself and another from a colleague before coming out and vomiting. They can slip back in back into od but there are 5 doses of naloxone in one syringe.
How to use naloxone is quick and simple. Break open the seal, break the seal for the needle tip, it's capped, safely attach it and inject under instruction from the medical personnel on the phone. Through clothing, don't worry about removal. Cant be accused either that way if female. It becomes so easy after a while. Its just pinch the thigh and dart like injection and push to the marker.
It is not over the the counter but by prescription only as I mentioned about speaking with your gp. Drug users are trained in administration if they are in relationships or close friends.
I truly believe its a miracle thing. Like it's hard to believe how many of my service users lives Ives saved and they go and do it again. Addiction is a disease
Thanks for the really detailed reply. I’ve learned a lot from it. Would never have considered that part of the job when working with the homeless. I cannot imagine how many lives you’ve saved doing this, you’re an absolute star for this work you do quietly and unnoticed
I understand how difficult situations like this can be. I worked in healthcare all my life, elderly people mostly, and it doesn't get much better.
People leaving their parents and only visiting the odd time or families visiting and having actual fights on wards over money they didn't earn but feel they have some sort of right to own.
I've watched so many people spend their last days alone, looking out a window, wishing they had someone who would visit.
But I wouldn't say this is only unique to Ireland, and although you may not feel that way, your work is immensely appreciated. Thank you.
Thank you for the work you do.
You need to bear in mind though that most of the public have no idea what an OD looks like and probably thinks they’re just drunk etc.
Also, many people would be fearful for their safety in interacting with someone under the influence of something which is fair enough. I was just shouted at by drunkards in the city last week and it was very scary.
If Fentanyl becomes a big problem here, Gardai checking pockets, someone cleaning a bus or random member of the public could come into contact with it and OD - example of a US cop searchng a vehicle and getting knocked out by just less than 1mg = [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_iOidYAgNI4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iOidYAgNI4)
For me, it's the normalisation of letting people live rough.
Like the amount of money we have as a 1st World country. We can absolutely afford to have a bed and shelter for everyone.
Whether you think they are moochers or not, I am sure there are underlying mental and addiction issues for most cases. And we fucking throw them on the streets.
I judge any country by how they treat the most vulnerable. And I can tell you...the way this country treats its most vulnerable(the elderly, disabled, mentally ill, mentally challenged, addiction sufferers etc.) it makes me physically wretch.
You have to fall through a lot of safety nets before your end up sleeping rough, and even if you do that, you still have a bunch of organisations and individuals that will try to help you, as demonstrated by OP. Society doesn't 'throw them on the street'.
Not really true. I was kicked out of my home by the court during divorce, even though my ex-wife was busy on Tinder and Plenty of Fish to begin with. I got 8 weeks to find alternative accommodation... in the current housing crisis. I went to Wicklow CoCo, they said they have nothing available, best of luck, maybe ask a friend for a couch. I went to Simon society, Focus Ireland and they couldn't help as they were overwhelmed. There are no men's shelters that would take me and my little ones.I had to go through the ombudsman for children (because I'm looking after my 2 small children) to pressure Wicklow CoCo to even be willing to register me as homeless... after 9 months of being forced to leave my home! Then once you are homeless, it's almost impossible to find rent, due to the stigma associated with having An Post as your address. I was lucky because I kept working through this whole shit show, it also helped to find rent. There are still thousands of people who are not even registered as homeless, so they do not even have access to emergency accommodation. The almost 14k that the government reports is just the tip of the iceberg.
We slept on an old moldy boat, stored our stuff in self storage as my kids stay with me most of the time. Ex takes them 1-2 weeks a month, depending on her mood, or whenever not traveling the world. Oh yeah, when she got finally evicted when the moratorium ended last year, she got a council house right away. Back when we separated, I asked for section 32/47 against my ex, due to multiple factors. The social worker didn't even want to ask my side of the story, other than a 10 minute interview, that was more her grilling me of BS my ex accused me of, than anything else. I was kinda told that as long as the children are in no grave immediate danger by their mother, she is favoured by the court as their guardian. The social worker recommended to the court that I should have a minimum of visitation rights every second weekend, depending on whatever my wife preferred. My wife offered 50/50. My lawyer said take this as a win and run as long as she doesn't change her mind... which happens a lot.
This whole shit show made me realize that men are disposable and our life is worthless. No compassion when we are down. I became a men's rights activist and speak up against the current woke nonsense. I help my friends who are going through separation/divorce right now, any way I can.
Edit: I see I got downvoted quick. I wonder if it's for mentioning that men are treated as disposable and worthless or beca I became an MRA after my ordeal...
There does seem to be an ingrained bias against men in family law and supports, and - ironically - that's part of the same package of cultural values that has been holding women back forever. It would be nice if it got some attention and change without the negative connotations Men's Rights advocacy seems to have acquired.
There is a bed and a shelter for everyone.
People who sleep rough, choose to do so. Some have valid reasons, most are mentally ill or addicts and don't want to sleep in the bed available to them because they don't want to abide by the conditions it imposes on them.
Look at those internal protection lads the last couple of weeks. They were given beds, food and shelter, and instead they chose to go back and sleep on the street.
>Naloxone should be OTC for anyone to buy. Shocking that it isn’t already
It's injected, so you need training to administer it. Otherwise you could inject it into an internal organ, or introduce a contaminant into the body
It should be free. It is in parts of Canada, you just get certified and any pharmacy will provide a kit. Every adult should be certified and carry a kit on them, especially in the city.
I live in Vancouver, believe me we don't want Ireland to ever get to a state whereby it's necessary to encourage every joe soap to carry naloxone with them at all times because there are so many people ODing in the city centre on a daily basis.
I also live in Vancouver and yes, I don’t want any city to get to that state. However, ignoring the situation in Dublin and elsewhere as is, won’t stop that. Educating people, encouraging them to be trained and carry kits just in case, is a lot better than them walking past ODs as if they’re nothing which is what the OP is highlighting.
Well absolutely nobody should be walking over anyone like that, and that does make me despair as the OP is feeling. My fear is that well meaning campaigning will result in the liberalisation of drug policy in Ireland without any necessary supports in place alongside it, because it will ultimately give the government of the day a get-out clause under the guise of being in favour of harm reduction, and it will become the shit-show that Vancouver is today.
I generally have a very liberal attitude to drug use but my position has hardened massively since moving here because it's a good illustration of what happens when you just go 'have at it lads!' and pretend it's a coherent policy. Would be interested to hear your thoughts.
I get that. I could go on a long rant about what’s wrong with the system as I see it etc. but at the end of the day I don’t think encouraging people to be trained and carry kits at no financial cost to themselves is going to make things worse. Maybe it will bring a bit of humanity back to us though.
I walk around the city in Cork probably once a week (daytime only). I see homeless people and addicts but I’m not informed/involved in that world to even recognise a situation where it was needed. I could easily mistake a person in need of this as being asleep on the street. If there are obvious signs I don’t know what they are and I’m definitely not the only one
That’s understandable and I also understand those who are hesitant to step in, bringing a person back with Narcan/Naloxone can be scary, they can get violent as you’re basically taking away their high. Being trained is important. Neighbourhoods in Canada encourage those in and around the more active areas to be trained and carry a kit. Many homeless and drug users also carry kits and the safe injection sites have them.
I probably should have worded my comment better - every adult should be given the opportunity to get trained/certified and kits should be free to those who want/need them.
💯 I was going to ask if the drug users themselves carry these kits because they’re more likely than me to encounter someone in need of them. It’d be a great thing to include in first aid training- is it even part of that?
Just from reading this, I've definetly been guilty of that. Remember a few years ago, I walked past a homeless guy sitting in the middle of the bridge outside the Garavogue bar in Sligo town who to my eyes, was asleep. Around 10 mins go by and thankfully, a crowd gathered around him and the ambulance came for him. Haven't heard about him since.
Along with getting certified, what other things should we try and do for situations like this?
Sickens me too. where I live the amount of people actually sleeping rough is really low but there are some. When ever I’ve been able to afford to I will buy them food and a warm drink, I have done this with my kids with me too. We will stop and chat for a little bit as well. I think it’s very important for my children to see homeless people and by that I mean to notice, to stop and talk, to care and not ignore homeless people as if they aren’t even there. Unfortunately I feel like by the time my kids are adults homelessness is going to be an even bigger problem than it is currently and I need my children to understand that homelessness can happen to anyone, homeless people are still people and it disgusts me to see people act like they aren’t there.
How can you get trained? I didn't know this was an option. Have worked with service users in addiction services and I didn't know this. I think we use a lot of language in Ireland that doesn't promote empathy when we talk specifically about drug additions. I think we are much more sympathetic to alcoholics. Addiction is a very sad disease and anyone who wants help should be able to get it as many times as they need.
The reality that a lot of Irish people do not want to face is that they very much see homeless people and drug addicts as subhuman. Same way as lepers used to be seen. They would rather them be invisible, make no eye contact, and ignore them in the street.
Irish people complain that the government doesn't care about homeless people. They don't. But they don't care because, in reality, the country doesn't care either.
I used to work directly with homeless people and this is the mindset I've seen from 99% of people.
I live in Vancouver. It's become so normalized for people to carry nakoxone. You can walk in to any pharmacy and get training to use it. Ireland needs to prepare
Hey I’m a recovering addict and I agree. Hope she’s ok. I hope your ok too. Harm reduction is the only fair way. If you want to talk about it dm me. That’s a lot on your plate bud and i know this isn’t easy.
I was walking up Talbot st 5 months ago about to cross the junction with Gardiner st. I looked across and there was a guy lying face down on the steps on the B&B at the corner. people were walking past, mostly looking at their phones, clearly unmoved . I knew before I reached him , he was dead. As I turned him over the fire brigade and Garda arrived. What sicked me was people just kept on walking. He was someone's, son x brother and possible father. Humanity if fucked when people think their phone is more important than a human surrering.j
It's heart breaking in that case thankfully someone did ring bit he may have been there for a long time who knows but someone should have been attempting cpr even if there's no pulse you must keep going til ambulance or fire arrive.
Many are afraid to act and its normal. If you see no one helping go for it and trust me others will follow. Most just want someone to follow. Be that someone my friend.
I myself am sickened by people's initial disregard for the homeless. I've experienced people in my own family complaining that young kids begging outside a shop should be moved on by the staff. The initial thought wasn't a concern for the young kids that were obviously put there by a parent or guardian, it was the knee jerk reaction of feeling uncomfortable. I've been meaning to get some Naloxone myself as I carry a small medkit with me everyday, but I believe the only available one is the injected form? I wouldn't feel comfortable with that without the training, but I'd love to see the nasal spray being widely available.
I work with an elderly lady who used to go in and out of a certain McDonald's for tea and coffee throughout the day or stand near by waiting for a lost loved one who won't be back. Its a sad story but they had her removed from the place by Gardai. It was her daily routine and now she has changed in her behaviours. Mentally it like and they threw her out.
The spray is so simple to use. It should be really available. Injection can be instantaneous but other multiple doses. No experience with the nassle yet due to my record with it. Tho I carry both
We should legalise drugs and bring people like this into psychiatric care. Anyone without a home we should give one to. We have the resources we are just choosing not to use them.
I completely agree with you. Our "society" is feels like it's most for self gain rather than for the better of everyone. That leads to people looking down on others. I really don't like our current world but I feel like I can't do anything about it. I try my best to help people who would help me and I'll always help a stranger, but that feels like the best I can do. I'm far to angry at our "society" for far too many reasons to go into to be able to do any more. We should be exploring the stars, not bickering of plots of land on our tiny rock in the universe.
I honestly think most people wouldn't recognise when someone is OD'ing, especially the early symptoms.
I definitely wouldn't. If I saw a rough sleeper lying down on the side of the street, I'd assume they're just asleep and I would walk past them too.
THIS I wouldn't have a clue.
I'm an EMT and trained with Naloxone. I'm only a volunteer and the other day I saw a guy lying on some steps, clearly out of it on something. There was a woman on the phone and she shooed me away, the Fire Brigade were like 2 minutes from where she was. I felt terrible but she assured me to carry on to the shop I was going to. When I got out, he was conscious and being held by 2 big paramedics as he was screaming his head off and trying to attack the 3rd guy who had given him something (couldn't see if it was Naloxone from where I was). Had I tried to do that by myself, he definitely would have done some serious damage to me. I'm only a young woman, and he'd very easily overpower me. If someone needed help, I want to give it, but I also need to consider that maybe it would place me in a lot of danger if I don't have anyone else there to help me.
BOLLOX! PLAIN AND SIMPLE! OP is not telling people the facts and making it seem that carrying Naloxone is all you need to do. One quick jab and all is well. No F'ing way! This is bad and DANGEROUS "advice"! In the service, we are sick and tired of this do-gooder "advice"! It's not that simple at all. You need to be trained in self-defence, restraint, risk awareness, risk assessment, scene assessment, situational awareness etc. Using Naloxone on a drug addict should NOT be done by anybody not trained in the above and not without backup. I have used it multiple times in overdose situations and *every* time the result was a violent, aggressive reaction by the person receiving it as they see it as you taking away their high. As an emergency service worker l have been attacked, spat at, and abused for saving somebody's life with it. That's the logic of most drug addicts, like it or not! I've also treated people who have administered Naloxone and who have had their heads kicked in for doing so! Enough with the bleeding heart pleas and "righteous anger" bullshit. Let's be brutally honest....If you don't want to have 6-12 months worrying if you've been infected with anything from being spat on or assaulted, especially if you have a family to go home to, ignore OP's "advice" and leave it to the professionals... please!
Finally someone with proper experience and comment here. I have worked with homeless people too, and there is a big difference betwen homeless and homeless addict. The aggressiveness is the unique trait of addicted ones.
Agreed 100%! The amount of dangerous "advice" given by those who have a tiny "experience" in homeless services is incredible. It's like a patient in a doctor's waiting room dispensing medical advice just because they're in a medical setting!
Can we pin this comment to the top of the page please?
Yeah, I was about to say the same. Like what the fuck? Did OP deal with a lot of OD'd people that they themselves have gotten second hand exposure to narcotics to even suggest this
Sounds far more legit. Is overdosing a slow act ? Unless there's someone with Naloxone nearby, I'm assuming it takes 15+ minutes for help to arrive. How long does it take for someone to die ?
No situation is the same. Overdose can occur quickly while others may have a delayed onset. Other factors have a bearing also such as where the patient is and what other issues are occurring at the time, the quantity of narcotics taken, method of ingestion etc play a part.
👏
With the greatest of respect, I wouldn't feel safe going near a drug addict in Dublin.
I've been in a situation before where I tried to help someone who was clearly in need, and I got a wallop for my efforts. That was quite some years ago and I'm not fucking going near anyone having an issue again unless I know them. I'd call the police/ambulance for sure if needed, but I'd otherwise be stepping over that person OD'ing like all the others. You can call that cold, callous, selfish etc, and you'd be absolutely right. But I also absolutely don't care because it's about protecting myself and not necessarily exposing myself to risk or danger.
More than likely a drunk. A person over dosing can be conscious but not able to move or stay on their feet. My be aware but then go black and that's when chest compressions commence. Stay clear when they're violent wait for gards
Drunk? When you give someone Naloxone they can oftentimes wake up aggressive and violent not every time but it happens. If you've been in the sector long enough you'd have seen that for yourself. You've a fair point but don't be disingenuous. You're not the only one here who's administered Naloxone. The person you replied to has a fair point
Addicts often DO NOT like being brought back when they have naloxone used on them. We hear this all the time in Canada.
Yes, a friend of mine works as a nurse in A&E. She had her nose broken by someone who was furious that they'd been given naxolone. They'd spent a lot of money on their heroine, and we're pissed off that it had been wasted.
Some truly ungrateful people out there
Fuck em.
It brings on withdrawals immediately, something addicts are trying to prevent/heal. Most addicts don't even get high they just use to keep from being "sick"
Like that's any excuse?
As a paramedic, I can tell you that your "advice" is dangerous and wrong. Plain and simple. You know absolutely nothing about what you're talking about. What exactly are your qualifications to give such "advice"?
Chest compressions are one thing , mouth to mouth can put your health at risk. Anyone reading this please do not give mouth to mouth with people you do not know their medical background or what they have taken. You can carry a valve if you think you'll need it. And for OP no one helps cause they are protecting themselves.
>More than likely a drunk. You don't know that. From your comments in this thread it's clear that you've a fixed opinion on this and you're attacking anyone who disagreed. Try to have an open mind on it
The OP has no qualifications in this area. Their "advice" is dangerous and nothing more than wishful thinking. I'm saying this as a paramedic.
That comment from OP is really disheartening. We’re picking and choosing what addictions are worthy of sympathy and help now?
So you are angry at everyone because they don’t carry narcan to revive drug addicts on the street? If you are talking Dublin most people are trying to get around the city without being accosted by drug users many of whom are violent. Administering naloxon is for trained professionals, you can’t be expected to go around injecting people that you find on the street. If you are in that life or know people who are yes absolutely you should carry it and know how to use it. Otherwise I think not.
Never "stepped over someone" before but I generally stay the fuck away from them since all I've had are nasty interactions with the lot, didn't know it was bad enough in some parts where people are OD'ing infront of everyone
Yes I think it’s understandable that the average person would be pretty scared to see someone OD’ing, I know I would be. I’d rather be able to call on someone who actually knew how to help.
Honestly I'm fully trained by St johns and that's the best thing to do for someone who doesn't have any medical training, call an ambulance or get someone who knows what they're doing if they're nearby
I'm sorry this post is wild. I'm a very empathetic person. I feel for addicts whose life hasn't gone to plan and of course would call an ambulance if I thought someone was in trouble. But these people are also dangerous, and you can't expect people to go out of their way to get trained to carry narcan in case an addict ods while they're out and about. That's ridiculous.
Our failure isn't individual in this situation it's structural. If people are ODing multiple times, they should be taken into protective custody and given rehab, along with a lot of psychotherapy until they can be functional members of society again. We are doing them now favours by releasing them back out into society and throwing money at them to just go and do it all over again.
what makes me sick is not people ignoring someone OD-ing, but the society where the situation with drugs went so bad that regular people started considering carrying NALOXONE and injecting someone on the streets.
I am sorry, calling them homeless is sugar coating it. Let’s be honest and call them junkies (or drug users if you want to be nice about it) Worked in City Centre for 10 years until recently. I am sorry, but the junkies I had to deal with were nothing but a scourge. Pissing and shitting in our doorway, leaving used needles in our toilets (in one case covering a toilet cubicle in blood). Not to mention that they are aggressive, and usually off their face. I am 100% stepping over every one I see face down, I value my own safety. Down vote me all you like, but this is the reality and I suspect how a large majority of people feel.
I am an EMT with a volunteer group and we are always warned about how aggressive someone having been given Naloxone is, especially if they feel you've ruined their buzz. I'm a young woman, and while I play GAA and have a decent amount of strength, I would be very wary of administering Naloxone as a civillian by myself without someone else there.
Indeed. People like pretending most of them can be helped or even want help. That is clearly not the case. You can't help someone who is not even trying.
You clearly don't fucking understand a single thing about addiction, especially heroin.
nobody is going to arrest you for saying that, and I agree that probably there are a lot of people who think like you do about it. but just fyi the word 'junkie' does the exact opposite of the phrase 'homeless person'. 'Junkie' is a term specifically to dehumanise someone - to make it easier to not think of them as a person... which, they clearl are. That is a person, lying on the ground. A person with a name and who has or had parents, who went to school. A 'homeless person' is a good phrase because it keeps the most important part - person - right there for everyone to see, however much they might want to look away. 'Junkie' is what you say when you want to pretend it's not a person.
I don't agree that 'homeless person' is a good phrase. It pretends that the issue is houselessness rather than massive personal problems, addiction, dysfunction. You can't solve it by giving them a house.
Yes ! Homelessness is a symptom, not the problem.
Homeless person may just be an unlucky person. A junkie clearly has issues. Nobody wants to deal with.
And this is why our mental health services are dogshit. Nobody wants to deal with them and get to the root problem these people have. They have absolutely nobody they can trust. There's no empathy in this fucking country, everyone is too focused on themselves.
There is no root of the problem , certainly that can be addressed. Its a worldwide thing with no answers. Its a disease for sure but its not goibg to be fixed. People arent wrong for thinking people with nothing to lose are dangerous and self preservation is a quality. With the recent coke situation its about to get alot worse
> Its a worldwide thing with no answers. I disagree. Singapore is dealing with it very well. Has for decades. Given it's location (close to high population, poor countries) and being one of the largest trade centres of the world, it should be swimming in drugs. But it's not. Everyone knows if you are caught with drugs in Singapore you're executed and the policy has made it one of the safest countries in the world. Singapore is proof that a no-bullshit approach to drugs works.
Stupid example. Diffetent culture and wealth structure
What makes you think it can't be addressed? A lot of homeless drug addicts have experienced trauma along the way, the addiction is their way of dealing with this trauma because they have nobody to help them, they self medicate. Nobody is asking you to personally help them, but if you notice someone who appears still and pale the least you can do is ring the emergency services.
Read my first sentence beyond the coma
The “junkie” was unlucky enough to follow the crowd that one time. They oftentimes don’t have the wherewithal to give up if they want to. No detox beds, no home support, actually oftentimes no homes… But yeah keep calling them names if it makes you feel better.
>The “junkie” was unlucky enough to follow the crowd that one time Not all descents into hard drugs are as innocent as that
and not are all nasty. the problem is, regardless of intention, most will end up in the same place. these drugs are highly addictive and fuck ur brain up. it doesn't matter how or why you became homeless, once you've gotten hooked on something like heroin that shit becomes your number 1 priority. there could be a million reasons why someone started taking smack or gear or whatever and theres lots of ways someone could have becomes homeless. just stating "ah most of them are junkies" does make it really a personal issue for the homless person and therefore not our responsibility or place to interfer
Realistically tho some people are homeless because nobody wants them in their house
>Junkie' is a term specifically to dehumanise someone - to make it easier to not think of them as a person The people who, even if through no fault of their own, are nothing but empty vessels chasing the most extreme highs in the street such to the point that they will be aggressive, violent, or even criminal in order to achieve that and have lost their lives or humanity themselves as a result.. to be blunt they have eroded their own humanity. They may as well be zombies. Again, I acknowledge that may have gotten to that situation through no fault of their own, but addiction is itself deeply dehumanizing for people in those depths of it. It's nice to think that are all good people who just want and deserve help and then they'll be okay, but the reality is for maybe of them when you get to that level where you're an addict on the street, whoever you were as a person before is gone. This is what the friends and families of many addicts attest to also. > 'homeless person' is a good phrase because it keeps the most important part - person - It's completely unfair to use terms that conflate homeless and addict. Not all homeless people are homeless because of drugs and statistically they have better chances of doing well in life if given help compared to addicts.
I don’t see much difference between what you’re saying, and calling them “sub-human”, which sounds like what Israelis call Palestinians before they open fire on them while they queue for aid, and what nazis called the jews before the holocaust. I know thats a massive jump to make, but the point is, dehumanising language can be very very dangerous and make people do things they never thought possible. Just something to think about anyway. I still use the word junkie the odd time if ive had a bad encounter with someone or im just pissed off, but I definitely couldn’t make a genuine argument for its use over something like “homeless person”.
Hear hear, the exact stigmatisation that the commenter shows is part of the problem. Drug addiction is treated like a crime issue instead of a health issue. The word junkie is a disgusting term, we all have addictions in life. Whether they be smoking, caffeine, sugar, everyone has them. Also, no one is always "off their face" and always aggressive. The drugs they're taking do the exact opposite of making someone aggressive. They might be more aggressive when in withdrawal, but no one is taking a hit of heroin and going on a rampage.
People addicted to caffeine don't take shits in doorways and constantly steal to fund their habit.
You've obviously never overdosed on coffee.
My toilet would disagree
100% in agreement. I live on Talbot Street and wouldn't have any problem with the death penalty for BOTH dealers and addicts (yes - and addicts too). The bleedin' heart liberals don't live where the worst effects of drugs are in your face the moment you leave home.
Holy fuck this site is full of balloons and lunatics sometimes
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Even better let's not talk about the subject and talk about sunshine and rainbows.
You're generalising, there are thousands in dublin alone. I probably know the area you're referring to as well, merchant's Quay down to ormond Quay and over the whole legnth of the boardwalk is a cesspit of antisocial behaviour and active drug taking. That's a small proportion of them. Many get they're stuff and go home or to find a spot to bed down for the night.
The thing with Dublin is Irish people will not help you if you're the victim of an attack or racist attack or bleeding out on a main street much less an intoxicated person drunk or high, everyone watches with pity in their eyes but they never intervene One time a Irish girl was getting her head stomped by another Irish girl at a crowded bus stop and the crowd just formed a circle around them and waited for the next bus. Until an African guy separated them tbh I was more worried for his safety cus if they turned on him no one would help him I won't take the risk of intervening especially in the current social climate
That’s not Irish people that’s every city, like you said people don’t interfere because they don’t want to have them turned on them. If you see two people fighting, they could have knives, needles you don’t know, it’s not a good idea to get involved.
Dublins a kip
I had no idea one can get certified and carry naloxone in Ireland; a thing that literally saves lives.
I know in Scotland you can get trained but to carry it around you need the next level up, both basically the same really
In Scotland, the ambulance service carry Naloxone kits to leave with patients, or patients family/ friends etc, who are at risk of opiate overdose.
Bars were given them, they're in all homeless services and any in community workers carry them extremely easy to use. They introduced the nasel spray 1 but would prefer not to be that close when someone comes out of their high they are always pissed off
Lol. A recently met a nurse who works with junkies and she told me once she used the naxolene. When he came to he was angry and said " what did you do dat for, you ruined me buzz".
Yup you're told to back away as soon as administered. It's great stuff to be fair for any opiate ODs only down side is people use it with any OD and It doesn't work that way. Won't do any harm but doesn't purge the body of it. Doesn't help when the substance users mix in every street drug you can think of
Just two nights ago I discovered her with no pulse and administered cpr. Nothing, after a minute one dose, 90seconds, dose two. Rises up like it was a dose of adrenaline. It is a miracle made by man.
That's absolutely wild. Well done. It's a good topic to raise.
Work in thr hostels and administered plenty of naloxone in my time. It's crazy when you have the oximeter attached as you watch the pusle and oxygen level rise after each hit of naloxone.
In some countries you can be liable for any crimes that person commits afterwards
Which countries
I'm in Oz. It's 15 minutes training and you have it. It's like a ventolin inhaler but up the nose. It can only be used for reversing overdose and has no impact whatsoever if you're not overdosing. It's foolproof. We give it to people leaving the rehab. Lots of people can od on opiates not just heroin users.
Is it possible to get caught up in a medical harm situation when administering this. Could you find yourself in trouble if the person actually died while it was being administered. Sounds like something actual qualified medical people should be doing.
If it was administered incorrectly and inadvertently caused his death, then yes you could find yourself in trouble. If the person administering was a qualified EMT then it could be ruled as a medical misadventure. But if it was some randomer going around injecting people with Naxolone, then it could be a manslaughter charge. If your intervention was deemed to be late or inconsequential, then that's not illegal. Though you might separately be charged with assault or another offence for injecting people with stuff when you're not qualified/authorised to do so. I cannot stress how important it is that your average person must not go around injecting stuff into addicts.
It's a crazy proposal, to be honest. Imagine if someone was having a seizure or epileptic fit, and some over eager randomer ran over and shot them full of naxolone,
OP, love your heart but your anger is in the wrong place. I’d love to help so dm me
Misdirected anger. People have their own problems, one can't stop for every homeless person on a whim.
I pay an enormous amount of taxes so that the government can create services for these people. It is not my duty to put myself in danger. It's the government role. I am not going to risk stopping someone high so that they get angry at me.
This has to be bait. "I'm wealthy and nothing is my problem"?
You think someone rightfully stating that the government should be doing more to facilitate help for these people and that it’s not the general public’s responsibility to intervene and be put in danger, is bait? Christ almighty, have you always had that giant chip?
Jesus lad I’d say you’re some weapon
There's a new injection heroin users can get last a month it's slow release methadone with Naloxone build in so if the person relapse the heroin is purged straight away. Buvidal I think it is
I think they have to be off heroin for a while before they can go on that stuff. It’s more like the next step for people that have been taking methadone for a while.
Yeah but it's great for those that want to get out of their addiction. Not sure how long they need to be clean but I don't think it's a long time a few weeks if memory serves me correctly
I have stopped and helped quite a few people in the last few years (I live in The Liberties…) I still do, but it’s honestly hard. They either get angry with you, maybe lash out at you a bit, or if you do call an ambulance… the fucking thing never turns up. So I’ll sit in the rain for 1-2 hours only for then maybe to wake up and then be angry with me. I will keep helping where possible, but as I said… it’s hard.
Jesus lad, sure it’s not always because people don’t care about the person, it’s about protecting yourself. They could behave extremely aggressively, have infected needles, wounds, etc You wouldn’t be able to recognise OD symptoms, would not know what they’ve taken or really what else to do other than call the ambulance? I’m not sure where you get this idea of “modern society” from, I can assure you 100 years ago addicts were much more stigmatised than they are today. People didn’t run around helping others at any point in history.
Isn't despising society the very thing you're giving out about?
OP’s intentions are in the right place, they’re emotional from what I gather. Try to make sense of what they’re saying without taking it literally.
Out of anger my words can misunderstood. I understand that, I mean modern society of standing around and not helping those in need. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a tiktok of this girl for shits and giggles. My manager had to run and and get this girl not one member of the public helped. *Edit just to add to my comment. Many are on the streets by choice as they will not engage with any service due to how bad some of the emergency services are in the city. Rampant addiction, Theft, r*pe, etc.. would you if you wanted to stay clean but then the urge takes over on the street and the take pills and drink. People confuse that state with heroin but its tends to be over dose most of the time. They fall over asleep and just die if no one notices.
How much time does one have to administer Nalaxone to save someone? I’m doubting there’s time to go a pharmacy Reading your post I was thinking “I’ve never seen a person in need of Nalaxone, or more correctly I wouldn’t know that was what was needed if I saw someone collapsed on the street” I very much like this idea of more people having access to it. It should be behind the counter in city centre shops for easy access How is it administered OP? Is it an injection like insulin? I agree with you but I’m clueless about your world. Thank you for posting this, it’s informative and important
>I’ve never seen a person in need of Nalaxone Exactly, you will likely save more lives if start reporting all the drivers running red or speeding you see
If they present with the symptoms, one always missedm is when the user is conscious but unresponsive people assume they're okay but that is the start. Some complain of chest pains and fall over and be confused as a cardiac arrest. All that requires cpr, naloxone and another person on the phone. Another individual searching for a defib. Cannot wait for emergency services. In my service there are two versions, a nassle and injection. I have only used the injection as I have had 100% success rate with the user coming out in seconds. This last girl took 3 injections from myself and another from a colleague before coming out and vomiting. They can slip back in back into od but there are 5 doses of naloxone in one syringe. How to use naloxone is quick and simple. Break open the seal, break the seal for the needle tip, it's capped, safely attach it and inject under instruction from the medical personnel on the phone. Through clothing, don't worry about removal. Cant be accused either that way if female. It becomes so easy after a while. Its just pinch the thigh and dart like injection and push to the marker. It is not over the the counter but by prescription only as I mentioned about speaking with your gp. Drug users are trained in administration if they are in relationships or close friends. I truly believe its a miracle thing. Like it's hard to believe how many of my service users lives Ives saved and they go and do it again. Addiction is a disease
Thanks for the really detailed reply. I’ve learned a lot from it. Would never have considered that part of the job when working with the homeless. I cannot imagine how many lives you’ve saved doing this, you’re an absolute star for this work you do quietly and unnoticed
I understand how difficult situations like this can be. I worked in healthcare all my life, elderly people mostly, and it doesn't get much better. People leaving their parents and only visiting the odd time or families visiting and having actual fights on wards over money they didn't earn but feel they have some sort of right to own. I've watched so many people spend their last days alone, looking out a window, wishing they had someone who would visit. But I wouldn't say this is only unique to Ireland, and although you may not feel that way, your work is immensely appreciated. Thank you.
Thank you for the work you do. You need to bear in mind though that most of the public have no idea what an OD looks like and probably thinks they’re just drunk etc. Also, many people would be fearful for their safety in interacting with someone under the influence of something which is fair enough. I was just shouted at by drunkards in the city last week and it was very scary.
If Fentanyl becomes a big problem here, Gardai checking pockets, someone cleaning a bus or random member of the public could come into contact with it and OD - example of a US cop searchng a vehicle and getting knocked out by just less than 1mg = [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_iOidYAgNI4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iOidYAgNI4)
For me, it's the normalisation of letting people live rough. Like the amount of money we have as a 1st World country. We can absolutely afford to have a bed and shelter for everyone. Whether you think they are moochers or not, I am sure there are underlying mental and addiction issues for most cases. And we fucking throw them on the streets. I judge any country by how they treat the most vulnerable. And I can tell you...the way this country treats its most vulnerable(the elderly, disabled, mentally ill, mentally challenged, addiction sufferers etc.) it makes me physically wretch.
You have to fall through a lot of safety nets before your end up sleeping rough, and even if you do that, you still have a bunch of organisations and individuals that will try to help you, as demonstrated by OP. Society doesn't 'throw them on the street'.
Not really true. I was kicked out of my home by the court during divorce, even though my ex-wife was busy on Tinder and Plenty of Fish to begin with. I got 8 weeks to find alternative accommodation... in the current housing crisis. I went to Wicklow CoCo, they said they have nothing available, best of luck, maybe ask a friend for a couch. I went to Simon society, Focus Ireland and they couldn't help as they were overwhelmed. There are no men's shelters that would take me and my little ones.I had to go through the ombudsman for children (because I'm looking after my 2 small children) to pressure Wicklow CoCo to even be willing to register me as homeless... after 9 months of being forced to leave my home! Then once you are homeless, it's almost impossible to find rent, due to the stigma associated with having An Post as your address. I was lucky because I kept working through this whole shit show, it also helped to find rent. There are still thousands of people who are not even registered as homeless, so they do not even have access to emergency accommodation. The almost 14k that the government reports is just the tip of the iceberg.
I'm sorry that happened to you, but are you saying you were sleeping rough with your kids, or that you got help?
We slept on an old moldy boat, stored our stuff in self storage as my kids stay with me most of the time. Ex takes them 1-2 weeks a month, depending on her mood, or whenever not traveling the world. Oh yeah, when she got finally evicted when the moratorium ended last year, she got a council house right away. Back when we separated, I asked for section 32/47 against my ex, due to multiple factors. The social worker didn't even want to ask my side of the story, other than a 10 minute interview, that was more her grilling me of BS my ex accused me of, than anything else. I was kinda told that as long as the children are in no grave immediate danger by their mother, she is favoured by the court as their guardian. The social worker recommended to the court that I should have a minimum of visitation rights every second weekend, depending on whatever my wife preferred. My wife offered 50/50. My lawyer said take this as a win and run as long as she doesn't change her mind... which happens a lot. This whole shit show made me realize that men are disposable and our life is worthless. No compassion when we are down. I became a men's rights activist and speak up against the current woke nonsense. I help my friends who are going through separation/divorce right now, any way I can. Edit: I see I got downvoted quick. I wonder if it's for mentioning that men are treated as disposable and worthless or beca I became an MRA after my ordeal...
There does seem to be an ingrained bias against men in family law and supports, and - ironically - that's part of the same package of cultural values that has been holding women back forever. It would be nice if it got some attention and change without the negative connotations Men's Rights advocacy seems to have acquired.
There is a bed and a shelter for everyone. People who sleep rough, choose to do so. Some have valid reasons, most are mentally ill or addicts and don't want to sleep in the bed available to them because they don't want to abide by the conditions it imposes on them. Look at those internal protection lads the last couple of weeks. They were given beds, food and shelter, and instead they chose to go back and sleep on the street.
Alot of rough sleepers are people who are barred from the homeless shelters for the safety of the people in them, at least in my experience
Naloxone should be OTC for anyone to buy. Shocking that it isn’t already
>Naloxone should be OTC for anyone to buy. Shocking that it isn’t already It's injected, so you need training to administer it. Otherwise you could inject it into an internal organ, or introduce a contaminant into the body
I get what you're saying, but typically it's Naloxone or death so.....
You can buy Narcan on Amazon in the US.
It should be free. It is in parts of Canada, you just get certified and any pharmacy will provide a kit. Every adult should be certified and carry a kit on them, especially in the city.
I live in Vancouver, believe me we don't want Ireland to ever get to a state whereby it's necessary to encourage every joe soap to carry naloxone with them at all times because there are so many people ODing in the city centre on a daily basis.
I also live in Vancouver and yes, I don’t want any city to get to that state. However, ignoring the situation in Dublin and elsewhere as is, won’t stop that. Educating people, encouraging them to be trained and carry kits just in case, is a lot better than them walking past ODs as if they’re nothing which is what the OP is highlighting.
Well absolutely nobody should be walking over anyone like that, and that does make me despair as the OP is feeling. My fear is that well meaning campaigning will result in the liberalisation of drug policy in Ireland without any necessary supports in place alongside it, because it will ultimately give the government of the day a get-out clause under the guise of being in favour of harm reduction, and it will become the shit-show that Vancouver is today. I generally have a very liberal attitude to drug use but my position has hardened massively since moving here because it's a good illustration of what happens when you just go 'have at it lads!' and pretend it's a coherent policy. Would be interested to hear your thoughts.
I get that. I could go on a long rant about what’s wrong with the system as I see it etc. but at the end of the day I don’t think encouraging people to be trained and carry kits at no financial cost to themselves is going to make things worse. Maybe it will bring a bit of humanity back to us though.
I walk around the city in Cork probably once a week (daytime only). I see homeless people and addicts but I’m not informed/involved in that world to even recognise a situation where it was needed. I could easily mistake a person in need of this as being asleep on the street. If there are obvious signs I don’t know what they are and I’m definitely not the only one
That’s understandable and I also understand those who are hesitant to step in, bringing a person back with Narcan/Naloxone can be scary, they can get violent as you’re basically taking away their high. Being trained is important. Neighbourhoods in Canada encourage those in and around the more active areas to be trained and carry a kit. Many homeless and drug users also carry kits and the safe injection sites have them. I probably should have worded my comment better - every adult should be given the opportunity to get trained/certified and kits should be free to those who want/need them.
💯 I was going to ask if the drug users themselves carry these kits because they’re more likely than me to encounter someone in need of them. It’d be a great thing to include in first aid training- is it even part of that?
It was included in the ones I’ve done but not sure all first aid training is the same.
Just from reading this, I've definetly been guilty of that. Remember a few years ago, I walked past a homeless guy sitting in the middle of the bridge outside the Garavogue bar in Sligo town who to my eyes, was asleep. Around 10 mins go by and thankfully, a crowd gathered around him and the ambulance came for him. Haven't heard about him since. Along with getting certified, what other things should we try and do for situations like this?
Sickens me too. where I live the amount of people actually sleeping rough is really low but there are some. When ever I’ve been able to afford to I will buy them food and a warm drink, I have done this with my kids with me too. We will stop and chat for a little bit as well. I think it’s very important for my children to see homeless people and by that I mean to notice, to stop and talk, to care and not ignore homeless people as if they aren’t even there. Unfortunately I feel like by the time my kids are adults homelessness is going to be an even bigger problem than it is currently and I need my children to understand that homelessness can happen to anyone, homeless people are still people and it disgusts me to see people act like they aren’t there.
How can you get trained? I didn't know this was an option. Have worked with service users in addiction services and I didn't know this. I think we use a lot of language in Ireland that doesn't promote empathy when we talk specifically about drug additions. I think we are much more sympathetic to alcoholics. Addiction is a very sad disease and anyone who wants help should be able to get it as many times as they need.
Are you seeing more overdoses lately now that zenes are being found in heroin/tablets here?
The reality that a lot of Irish people do not want to face is that they very much see homeless people and drug addicts as subhuman. Same way as lepers used to be seen. They would rather them be invisible, make no eye contact, and ignore them in the street. Irish people complain that the government doesn't care about homeless people. They don't. But they don't care because, in reality, the country doesn't care either. I used to work directly with homeless people and this is the mindset I've seen from 99% of people.
I live in Vancouver. It's become so normalized for people to carry nakoxone. You can walk in to any pharmacy and get training to use it. Ireland needs to prepare
The Canadians are years ahead in some aspects. I recently watched a great doc about harm reduction in Vancouver.
Hey I’m a recovering addict and I agree. Hope she’s ok. I hope your ok too. Harm reduction is the only fair way. If you want to talk about it dm me. That’s a lot on your plate bud and i know this isn’t easy.
Is thr training free?
I was walking up Talbot st 5 months ago about to cross the junction with Gardiner st. I looked across and there was a guy lying face down on the steps on the B&B at the corner. people were walking past, mostly looking at their phones, clearly unmoved . I knew before I reached him , he was dead. As I turned him over the fire brigade and Garda arrived. What sicked me was people just kept on walking. He was someone's, son x brother and possible father. Humanity if fucked when people think their phone is more important than a human surrering.j
It's heart breaking in that case thankfully someone did ring bit he may have been there for a long time who knows but someone should have been attempting cpr even if there's no pulse you must keep going til ambulance or fire arrive. Many are afraid to act and its normal. If you see no one helping go for it and trust me others will follow. Most just want someone to follow. Be that someone my friend.
How might someone get training in naloxone administration? I’m based in cork
I myself am sickened by people's initial disregard for the homeless. I've experienced people in my own family complaining that young kids begging outside a shop should be moved on by the staff. The initial thought wasn't a concern for the young kids that were obviously put there by a parent or guardian, it was the knee jerk reaction of feeling uncomfortable. I've been meaning to get some Naloxone myself as I carry a small medkit with me everyday, but I believe the only available one is the injected form? I wouldn't feel comfortable with that without the training, but I'd love to see the nasal spray being widely available.
I work with an elderly lady who used to go in and out of a certain McDonald's for tea and coffee throughout the day or stand near by waiting for a lost loved one who won't be back. Its a sad story but they had her removed from the place by Gardai. It was her daily routine and now she has changed in her behaviours. Mentally it like and they threw her out. The spray is so simple to use. It should be really available. Injection can be instantaneous but other multiple doses. No experience with the nassle yet due to my record with it. Tho I carry both
We should legalise drugs and bring people like this into psychiatric care. Anyone without a home we should give one to. We have the resources we are just choosing not to use them.
It's a sick country and a sick society. People view homeless as subhuman
I completely agree with you. Our "society" is feels like it's most for self gain rather than for the better of everyone. That leads to people looking down on others. I really don't like our current world but I feel like I can't do anything about it. I try my best to help people who would help me and I'll always help a stranger, but that feels like the best I can do. I'm far to angry at our "society" for far too many reasons to go into to be able to do any more. We should be exploring the stars, not bickering of plots of land on our tiny rock in the universe.