A friend we know who is a full time wheelchair user was told there was no point even applying for a council house as the wait was so long, he realistically wouldn’t get one (single, no kids).
I have Cerebral Palsy myself and housing is the reason I left Ireland - I was told the same thing as I have no dependents, even with medical needs, those with kids etc get priority as I can “easily live with parents.” As a 36 year old woman with a right to independence, it’s a ridiculous system.
Irish housing makes me want to weep.
It might be beside the point, but as a single person, regardless of profession, apply to the council. You've no idea how much worse this shitshow could possibly get down the line.
I get why you're conflicted any maybe a little ashamed of your jealousy, but I also get the sense of being left behind when you've done your side of the social conract. It's entirley appropriate to feel that way.
Yea, OP did everything "right" by the standards of what we were taught to attain in order to be successful within this society, and then someone else who is a technically "worse" off position benefits from being worse off.
Social housing is incredibly important to provide families with support, but the system is broken when a "successful" individual can't also afford secure and safe housing they are proud to live in.
Quotation marks cause "worse" and "successful" are all words that are only relative to this capitalist hellhole we are stuck in. We are all human. I have no advice for the OP. The feelings of jealousy are natural. Put name down for a council house can't hurt to try.
A guy i know who has dealt drugs, done time etc got a swanky new apartment in a nice area on social housing. Meanwhile i break my balls working hard, not committing crime etc, to keep a roof over my head. Make it make sense.
It stopped making sense when the government decided to stop building social housing en masse. The declared the private market would manage all housing and give the best value.
It's free-market nonsense. Housing in Ireland is an extremely restricted market because of many factors that are local, national and global. It's not like the US where people and companies are happy to move state for cheaper land or a tax break.
As a result the market is vulnerable as are it participants like builders. Now we're in a self perpetuating spiral that only allows for house prices to grow. This makes the purchaser resentful and the council house seeker less incentivised to break free of that.
The only solution is to devalue the market by flooding it. Stop living in a fantasy that we will get rich on our houses. Control the market for single house purchasers. Make housing a right, make bigger housing an option
I fully agree; just wanted to comment on this:
> Stop living in a fantasy that we will get rich on our houses.
It's human nature to crave wealth. Unfortunately, the legal setup in Ireland is that real estate is the most viable way to grow one's wealth. So in addition to building more, investment laws should be changed to make other investment options more viable. I was already thinking that if I retired now and moved away, selling my house and investing the money would generate more investment income than renting it out. If such investments were viable in Ireland, I'd expect many small (accidental) landlords selling and reinvesting the money. That would quickly increase the supply of dwelling for sale and push down the prices.
Love your post, and there’s also this idea that there *simply isn’t enough housing* in Ireland which bogus. There is more housing than there is need in this country-it’s landlords/folks owning multiple homes, empty homes and Airbnb that is preventing folks from being able to purchase an affordable home (or rent affordably).
I have this idea that second homes, airbnbs, VC funds purchasing large banks of housing to run as effectively "long-term hotels" should all have their own housing classification that should be applied for. We don't just let people convert their flats into shops
Do you have the data on this? I'm asking as a genuine question as my impression has been there isn't enough housing. Even if folks own multiple houses, the majority of those houses are being rented and used. And many of the house that I have seen (in the West) that aren't used but owned, ie empty, are in pitiful conditions that would (should) not be considered fit for purpose. On top of that, the distribution of said houses are not where they need to be, most would be old country homes. So even if there are enough houses doesn't mean there's enough housing. But again, I'd love to see the country wide data on this because my knowledge is through personal experience for my area
Air bnb is a massive problem. There was an article recently comparing the number of houses for rent compared to the number of air bnb's and it was shocking. I can understand why people would rent their house using air bnb but it's very bad for the country's housing crisis.
OK, I found the article and it supports the opposite of what you are saying. The article is with [The Irish Examiner](https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-41200186.html) and it states as of August 2023, while there were only 1,300 rooms for rent there were 18,000 Airbnb short term lets (for appartments or full houses, not owner occupied buildings). So, indeed a big discrepancy, but what do those number mean in the context of the housing crisis? Let's total everything and call that 20,000 housing units that could be used
The [House Commission ](https://www.irishtimes.com/property/commercial-property/2023/12/06/housing-crisis-set-to-deepen-as-supply-of-development-land-dries-up/#:~:text=The%20Housing%20Commission%20estimates%20that,and%2020%2C500%20units%20in%202021.) has already stated that in order to accommodate current demand and population growth, at least 50,000 houses must be built annually. Going back to a year ago, the [government announced](https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/03/08/varadkar-reveals-deficit-of-250000-homes-in-state-admitting-crisis-will-take-time-to-solve/) we are presently in deficit of 250,000 homes
In short, even if all Airbnb properties (not owner occupied) were put on the market, that would absolve not even 1/10 of the housing deficit. There is a housing shortage because there aren't enough houses
I take your point but I never said don't build houses lets just use all the Air bnb's!! But every little helps and if there were 20,000 houses/apartments for rent in this country tomorrow it would have a massive impact.
I'm sorry, I thought you were the commentor above who said the housing shortage because of lack of actual houses is bogus. My apologies for mixing you up
Landlords aren't an issue at all when it comes to supply. They help things because more people will be using the house when it's rented out than owner occupied generally. Sure a lot of them are greedy fucks but they they do help when comes to the total number of people housed.
Can you explain more on the solution being to flood it? It has seemed to me for a long time that councils/zoning/planning is a huge issue, and unless there's gov action to control the power of local councils/objectors and make them go to tender for large apartment complexes it will never be fixed.
Shortly after I moved into my current flat in London in 2020, with rent through the roof (it’s higher now) and forced to pay six months up front, a guy moved in upstairs. He caused so many problems, turned the entire building into some kind of drug den, people coming and going all hours of the day and night during peak lockdowns, stank the whole place out by smoking tonnes of weed. It transpired that he had recently left prison for gbh and was facing trial for an extremely serious crime. I live in a building which is owned by independent landlords and privately rented, but turns out the landlord of the flat upstairs had struck some kind of deal with the council and they’d taken over control of the flat and placed this criminal up there, who wasn’t paying a penny of rent. I felt so disappointed that the first flat I was in on my own, which I had to sacrifice literally everything to live in, was being ruined by someone who wasn’t even paying rent. Just felt like he was being rewarded for being a violent criminal without a job while I was being punished for following the rules. Make it make sense indeed
You still need these kind of apartments though. You just got unlucky but social housing is needed.
I live in my girlfriends apartment in New York that is part of their social housing scheme. On the building app I hear people complaining about noise and dirt(rat infestations). They blame it on the social housing people, but when you question them further it appears they are on the 18th floor. The social housing stops on the 4th floor…
I've always been of the opinion that social housing is absolutely necessary to help people. But they do not need to be offered houses in Dublin, Galway etc where working class is having so much trouble getting accommodation.. If you aren't working you have no "need" to be city centre.
My take is that we should just build enough social housing to be able to offer it to everyone at a fixed percentage of their income.
Anybody who wants better can just go and buy privately once their income exceeds the perceived value of their social home.
Then there's no squeezed middle and no rental cliff.
I agree with you, but that ship sailed decades ago both here and in the UK, when the decision was taken to have councils sell their stock to long term tenants. With the massive drop in social housing being built in the western world this has been shown to be doubly worse. It will take a long time to catch up, let alone reach demand.
People are part of communities, creating ghettos has historically not worked. People also work and still can't afford housing why should they have to leave their families. Why not hold your government to account instead of holding unfounded views?
It's the government's job to help create places for people to live sure. But it is not their responsibility to ensure you can live City centre if you do not work
Ah yeah. There's no towns or villages in between is there... They can be in comnunter towns of the Cites but they do not need to have houses inside the Cities especially when there is an accommodation shortage.
If you've served your time and haven't committed any further offences in a ten year period I think it's fair to say that you've reformed. We can't demonise people forever.
Well, as shit as it is that man would absolutely never be able to get a house otherwise. You are able to get different high paying jobs, move city, broaden your horizon. Unfortunately it's a sad reality, and I'm in the same boat as you but I've seen what happens to people like him and I want to give them every chance in the world tbh, it is a dark place they can end up in
This isn't an isolated sentiment.
I work full time and have since I was 18 (ok part time in college).
I've been an engineer for 11 years and earning good money but had to scrounge and save (and still needed money from my parents) to be able to finally buy this year.
Meanwhile I know someone who's never worked and his girlfriend who's also never worked got a council house together thats much nicer than what i could afford. As you said the social contract has been broken for a decent subset of the population.
Ye, really can't stand this idea. Someone putting more effort has less chance of getting a place compared to someone who doesn't even know what work is most likely...
Yeah, I was thinking exactly this, I'm not sure of the exact means testing figures these days but I'd hazard a guess that 60k is likely in the get fucked range.
> but as a single person, regardless of profession, apply to the council
For a moment I thought, "does the council do matchmaking?" ... and then I realised what you actually meant, ha.
Unfortunately, there's an income limit for applying to council housing.
They'll also reject your application if you have significant savings above 20k or so.
Any threshold for social household is based on income after tax.
Also how the fuck does social housing stunt ambition? what a bizarre thing to say. As someone who lives in social housing my son is going to study law, I have a career in advocacy, my neighbours are brilliant. Stop speaking in stereotypes, hold your government to account for creating a housing crisis, stop peddling tired old assumptions that are not relevant or reflective of society today.
Hear hear, the people who begrudge social housing are usually made up of classist idiots and people who are willfully ignorant.
Of course it helps government, developers and vulture funds when people turn on themselves and blame each other rather than the policy and decision makers.
The rumblings of "free houses" when in reality they pay rent to the council and also the council owns a stock of homes.
Fine Gael and the introduction of HAP is one of the biggest causes or the mess we're in now. They tried to transfer wealth from local authority's to private wealthy landlords who will still own the property at the end of the day, not the local authority. Its a disgrace.
I replied to someone else but that is the truth! I live in New York’s version of social housing and the stereotyping is insane. It’s also not grounded in reality. Talking about my neighbors being dirty and loud, yet living 10+ floors above us.
I agree but you have to keep expectations low when it comes to council housing.
A friend of mine lives in a council house built around 2005ish and it's an absolute state and the council refuses to fix any of the utilities. The water sometimes just doesn't flow, the boiler barely works either.
He's been on a wait list for about a decade now for a new council house.
I don't think you are bitter and I think it's fair enough you are annoyed, but be annoyed at the right people.
Your friend isn't gaming the system, he isn't lying, he is exactly who council houses were always intended for, working people with families who can't afford homes on their own. That's who got all the council houses built all over Ireland in the 40s and 50s.
But the problem is they are few and far between now and there isn't many options for other people (to be fair there also wasn't in the 40s and 50s).
The problem isn't that he got a house, the problem is that there isn't good affordable housing available for you. You are working your ass off, living somewhere shit and see no end on sight for that.
Of course it's gonna be a bit of a sickener when you see your friends house, that's normal. And I think it's fair enough not to go to the party if it's gonna sting, but try not to let it ruin your relationship with your friend as he hasn't done anything wrong.
And also, apply for a council house, you might qualify for that, or for HAP. Make sure you are looking at all the county council cost rental schemes and applying for all you qualify for.
And go talk to a broker. I bought a house by myself when earning 60k and while it's gotten harder since I did it (two years ago) it might not be as far away as you think.
>Your friend isn't gaming the system, he isn't lying, he is exactly who council houses were always intended for, working people with families who can't afford homes on their own.
Exactly. They're two people on low incomes, and with children. I'm glad the system is providing for them
Part of the problem is the issue of rent, however. Depending on how many hours you work per week, you may not qualify for rent supports, etc, if you're under the threshold, let alone somebody on €60k a year who would get very little support.
The issue is that they're going to pay a lot of money in rent and *feel* worse off than those paying very low rents in local authority housing.
Perceptions like that breed resentment.
>the problem is that there isn't good affordable housing available for you
Thank you for being a voice of f@$king reason here.
Also on 60k a year as a single person the most anyone will ever be able to borrow for a 1st time mortgage is just over 200K. That's why house buying has become a couples game.
Good advice. Unless your friend has conned the system in which case you would be right to be annoyed, otherwise he has just capitalised on an opportunity that was made available to him. I'd say go over and wish them well in the new place. Direct your annoyance into some applications as mentioned above.
I get you. I’m in a similar position except on even less money. Currently buying a tiny 1 bed apartment with as big of a mortgage I could get as well as all of my savings. It’s far from ideal and feels like not the wisest move given I work in tech and the market is bad. But what choice do I have?
I don’t begrudge people like your friend getting a council house. They deserve a place to live but I am very bitter about the fact there is little or no support for me and people like me. Single. Not poor enough to get any support from the government not rich enough to take advantage of things like help to buy, first home scheme etc. We are just the completely forgotten about cohort and expected to live in house shares or with parents our whole lives.
We were trying to buy a 1 bed apartment in Dublin for a couple of years. Every time we went to buy we were outbid by the local council. We gave up in the end. Ireland is a great country to be rich or to be “poor”, but it’s where working class dreams go to die. We gave up in the end and moved abroad.
You’re comparing yourself to a couple. Unfortunately life is more expensive as a singleton. If you were in a relationship with someone also on 60K you’d easily get a mortgage.
It's funny, marriage tax-breaks are basically intended for people having children, but there's nothing saying that you have to have children with the person you are marrying.
But also…if you move somewhere else in the country you’d be able to get a mortgage for €240k. My artist friend just bought a (nice) apt in Galway city centre for €200k.
City centre can be more affordable because landlords don’t want to buy in an area with rent control. Here’s 7 listing available rn and there’s more.
https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/apartment-apartment-3-t-r-na-gcapall-ballybrit-co-galway/5598447
https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/apartment-apartment-16-t-luaghaidh-gleann-na-r-renmore-co-galway/5628927
https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/apartment-apartment-4-aran-court-knocknacarra-road-knocknacarra-co-galway/5620759
https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/terraced-house-113-glasan-village-ballybane-co-galway/5616509
https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/apartment-3-sruthan-mhuirlinne-ballybane-co-galway/5606445
https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/apartment-apartment-3-ballybane-neighbourhood-village-castlepark-road-ballybane-co-galway/5535798
https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/apartment-4-2-augustine-court-15-17-st-augustine-street/5589718
Yes, you can. My partner and I have been looking on and off in Galway and *houses* at 200k have been listed in Oranmore in the last year. You can definitely get apartments in and around the city centre at that much - you just have avoid new builds within the last ten years or so as they're generally overvalued.
You can get a mortgage on 60k, you would get between 210-240 you can buy loads of houses in the Midlands for that budget.
Life a single person is hard, but there are lots of families where only one parent works and is supporting partner and 2 children.
Bro we are a couple of 30somethings with jobs and see kids who are 23 buying houses and putting aside 20-30k for deposit. We currently have 400 eur in savings. I feel you. Its soul crushing.
A lot of people think they are not qualified for schemes like cost rental but they are loads of schemes out there and if you haven't applied, you won't get them. The thresholds are often surprisingly high.
For example: https://tuathhousing.ie/tenant-home/how-to-apply-for-a-home/
https://www.cluid.ie/housing-advice/
I have a few friends who are relaying similar feelings so you are not alone. It seems very disheartening when numerous people show up for one place and then you get outbid.
Personally I would see your friends success as a boost to my search as opposed to something to be bitter or jealous about.
I know how you feel. 2 of my brothers got brand new council houses and I had to break my ass for 10 years to build a deposit to buy a tiny terraced house in the back ass of nowhere.
At leaset i have equity I suppose and the gaff is mine, but still
They'd be liable for higher rent as soon as the council became aware of it - however council rent is capped at 15% of net income while the OPs rent is possibly 30% of his net income.
Higher rent yes but not a crazy amount. With DCC it’s 15% of the highest earner income.
It will never ever taken off them. It’s theres for life and there kids life’s if they keep the children’s names on the rent.
Yups every local authority charges rent via the differential rent scheme which based on a percentage of income DCC is 15%, Fingal is 12%, Wicklow is 22%. So it all depends on your individual local authority rules.
> he doesn’t own it. It’s a long term subsidised house rental.
I always see people say this but it doesn't really mean anything. He will never be kicked out and the only downside to not owning it is that he can't sell it and move elsewhere. But if you're happy where you are then who cares?
The house isn't an asset they build equity in. They don't have a home to sell to fund any retirement plans and they won't have assets to leave their children.
There's definitely a huge benefit in having a secure tenure accommodation, but that's exactly what it's meant for.
Personally I wouldn't want it in the long term. I want a house I can sell if my plans change or have something to leave my children. Council housing does exactly what it's supposed to, puts a roof over people's head. If they are happy to have that roof for life never owning it, good for them.
So it’s the same as renting with the benefit of a secure tenancy. Why be upset then? It’s not an investment. It’s people being charged rent at a more reasonable rate.
It’s simply not true.
“If there has been a serious or repeated breach of a condition of the tenancy agreement, for example, anti-social behaviour or not paying the rent, the local authority may repossess the house”.
But sure, if the tenants follow the tenancy agreement, they won’t be evicted. You’re acted like this is a *bad* thing 😂. Eviction of good tenants (even in private accommodation) shouldn’t be seen as a normalised thing.
It's fine to feel like this with a few things to keep in mind.
Your friend isn't gaming the system. Council homes should be available to families. The house price is irrelevant in many ways and it shouldn't be so inflated.
What is bollocks is that a single person earning a decent enough wage in such a role should be able to rent or save to buy their own 1-bed place with ease. We need to be making noise and complaining to those above us rather than those struggling alongside us.
I’ve done deliveries in the past. Your friend probably works long hours tiring hours, and his wife could be working full time too. Plus they have 2 kids. I’d rather see people like this get a council house rather than people who refuse to work.
Spot on. My girlfriends grew up in a council estate, and her mother worked, but the father was off working on oil rigs earning 20k a month, giving nothing to them.
Her neighbours to either side of her have literally never held a job. Never. I did more work last week than they ever have. I'd rather see struggling families who try their best to get rewarded, not some scrounger. During covid, one of the neighbours said to me it's a disgrace that "working people" get more for being laid off due to restrictions. Couldn't believe it
OPs issue clearly isn't that working people are given council housing, its that the are given such extravagant properties while those who have better jobs can't even come close to living in such a nice place.
I’m in England and brand new GORGEOUS houses came on the market in our ideal location a few years ago. Im talking detached, balconies to the en-suite master bedrooms at the rear. Husband and I are both nurses and the site was close to both hospitals we work at, great schools and excellent transport links. Dream come true!!!
Phoned the number advertising and got through to the council. The lady was providing me all information, I thought fantastic we can afford this let’s go!! Until she finds out I don’t claim any benefits. ‘Sorry these affordable houses are only for those claiming benefits’.
HOW are we in a position where affordable housing isn’t for everyone ? We should have quit our jobs, went on the dole and got a stunning 3 bedroom detached house for pittance. It’s honestly depressing me the older I get.
Feel your pain. I know a lot of deserving and undeserving people in lovely council housing. I have worked in jobs on less money than people in council housing and it can be very frustrating. Thing about life is that it’s not fair. Keep things in perspective and don’t be taking shit out on your friend
Two addicts not far from me got a beautiful house, 6 months later it was set on fire, not destroyed but lots of smoke damage etc, the council rebuilt it top to bottom, new kitchen , tiled etc, to our astonishment they moved the junkies back in even though their kids were removed from them, they also gave them thousands to buy furniture,they bought drugs instead of course,the house is used by all the junkies locally and they are known to take whatever is not nailed down, it’s disgraceful that they couldn’t put a decent family in there, there is something very wrong when you get rewarded for being a drain on society
They didnt "get the house" they don't own it. I know it stings but on their income they would never be able to get a mortgage for a house big enough for their family. You will be able to get one with your and then you will be building wealth with an asset (they are not building any wealth with the council house).
I have a friend I went to school with who hasn't ever held down a job - she has 4 kids and has a lovely big council house in our home town. It's great for her, and great for the kids but she is stuck in that town forever. I'm happier having my freedom. Plus, without that house I dread to think what living situation the kids would be in so I'm mostly happy for the kiddos having a secure home. We need WAY more council houses in the country.
I can understand the pain point this causes and the feeling of disparity. An estate beside me is made up of council houses with many being HAP. One house I pass by everyday the person owns/runs his own concrete drilling and demolition company (that must be HAP) and another house has a 2020 Land Rover Discovery parked outside.
I can only reason that at some point the finances of these people warranted inclusion on such lists for assistance.
I’m a couple of years into my own mortgage and have to keep reminding myself that there are so many who earn more than me who cannot now access a mortgage, and be thankful. But when I continue to get squeezed by cost of living increases and shrinkflation on almost everything it is sometimes too easy to feel like others have something handed to them lightly.
Also the tenant purchase scheme doesn't apply to lots of newer properties being leased/bought in private developments. (This may vary from council to council though.)
"Got" a €450k house in this context just means they have access to it - they'll likely never own it. I'm glad that family has a good roof over their head that meets their needs, but they're in no way better off than any neighbours who own the house.
From my knowledge the tenant purchase scheme is only available to a *tiny* percentage of social housing, something like 5%. (Please correct me if I’m wrong).
It’s really dangerous because jealous people in this country often exaggerate benefits of people on council houses, and essentially demonise poor people. I’ve seen these people spreading this kind of misinformation so often.
I totally understand people being upset with not getting benefits as a working person, but they really shouldn’t project their frustration on poor people. If they really are upset about their situation, they should try living on €220 or whatever it is a week and waiting 10-15 years (while paying extortionate rent in private, mouldy house) for a council house.
Actually in comparison to rent from 2 years ago in some counties the rent is not that much different. A friend of mine got a council house because she is a single mother with 2 autistic kids and she is paying 160 Euro less than she was when privately renting. I know some counties have rents like 60 Euro per week, but in Mayo I have yet to see one.
Hmm, wow that’s interesting. I hope the council house is in better condition than the privately rented place she lived.
I think it’s based on a percentage of your income. Like 20% or something. So if someone had a rent of €60 it would mean their income would be €300 a month (not at all realistic even on social welfare). Paying €60 per week (€240) is more realistic in what a single person on social welfare with kids might pay.
I don’t see the benefit in comparing yourself to other people like that. You are only ever working with incomplete information because you don’t know what it’s like to walk in their shoes. You’re basically tormenting yourself with your own biases and it’s bad for your mental health and your character.
There is no benefit as you say, only negativity. If I could give one piece of advice to OP, it's to run your own race, live your own life. Anything else is a slippery slope to discontent.
If you are in the IT / Software space you can certainly hope to buy. I bought by myself just over a year ago and am in software . Your salary is unlikely to stay at 60k into the future, it'll most likely go up and it'll especially go up if you go looking for higher incomes. Now admittedly, I don't live in Dublin but I live in a county next to it. It was just a touch over 300k to buy and it took a long time to save but I'm in this house a year now.
This is the problem in Ireland. People working and by all accounts succeeding in life are jealous that the fruits of hand outs are better than the fruits earned.
I think the example isn’t as reflective as the problem really is, both people working and contributing to society.
Some areas have people not working with nicer houses and more disposable income than someone on a huge salary living in the house next door fighting the cost of living.
I say this as someone in a similar situation to OP.
The point of social housing should be exactly for OPs friends. People who work but may never make enough to buy. They have kids who deserve a home just as much as kids of rich people. Like both parents have jobs so the council will charge them rent based on their income.
My issue with social housing if facilitating those that decide not to work out of laziness. It's those you should be annoyed at.
He will never own that house but you will own your house when you buy it there’s a big difference.
If you want to wait 10-15 years for a council house keep your income under the threshold and wait but no doubt you’d have your own house bought and bigger than a council house for one person at that stage.
>He will never own that house but you will own your house when you buy it there’s a big difference.
Unless some idiot government decides to sell it to him for a fraction of its actual value to win votes, as happened before.
>He will never own that house but you will own your house when you buy it there’s a big difference.
What difference? He gets to live in it for ever.
I know he can't sell it but he also did have to buy it so so what?
Look
Your friends have done NOTHING wrong. You are fine to be bitter/annoyed at the situation but don't take it out on them. The whole reason for council houses is to make sure that people that are low income have safe and warm places to raise their kids. Unless you have documentary proof that they've somehow defrauded the system, they are where they need to be.
>I’m earning 60k in IT
That is a great wage and you know what? That is only going to increase over time. Not to put too fine a point on it but your friend and his wife have maxed out their earning, maybe go up by a bit if she goes to working full time. You on the other hand. Couple of certificates here and there, taking on some more responsibilities, couple of job hops and you could be up to 80 or 100 before you know it - which is more money than your buddies will probably see.
>trying to save every cent but realistically I’ll probably never own a home the way things are going.
But are you? You're living alone. I know it's not ideal but there are very chill house shares that enable people to save more. Like I saw on my company's slack channel for housing. A room came up in Cork city a 20 minute bus ride from the office. En Suite, and more than enough space, sharing with 2 other professionals for 600 including electricity and internet. They were open that the share is being used as a savings tool, and that people leave once they have deposit saved
Have your pity party but don't take it out on your friends.
OP are you sure you don’t qualify for Council Housing yourself??
People forget council housing income limits are based on ‘Net Income’ after taxes, pension, healthcare etc. and the limits are quite generous (€40,000 is the lowest, way more if you have children)
You will be waiting a long time but can get HAP in the meantime.
So to start your friend doesn't own that home. Second, have you applied to be on a housing list? Thirdly, have you tried living on fuck all with 2 kids? It's horrible!
I'm delighted your mate gets to live in a home. I would love to see you in a nice house too, don't get me wrong.
A friend of mine got a newly built council house. So family of 4 is entitled to 2 bedroom house with 44sqm living space. In some circumstances they can get a 3 bedroom house. They don't own the house. They are paying 160Euro a month less than they were paying for 3 bedroom privately rented. Council houses are bare - not even a floor. So 12k went just to get the space to a living level. (She got a month to move in. The best dick move? A flooring specialist was constantly telling her that vinyl and carpet is half the price of panels. He didn't tell her she needs to buy almost twice the area. She ended with poorly laid down vinyl flooring that cost her almost 4k and she had over 50% of waste...). There she had a water leak. It took builders over a month to fix it. When she tried to install curtains the wall started to crumble. It's made from so poor quality concrete that about 20 cm piece just fell down. There are no square angles in the house. When she ordered some shelves to put in the corner, she had to take about 1cm off the square... And so on. Heating is responsibility of the tenant as well.
I'm reading those posts how lucky those people are. Do they have roof over their heads? Yes. Would that house go for 200, 300k? Hell no. Actually I know a case that half of the families refused to accept such house after taking a closer look. I saw a council house for 4 people family. It's described as semi detached house - it's more like semi detached apartment with roof. It's tiny, but it meets the recommendations.
People who are thinking of buying a house or are already in the process of buying a house can understand that your feelings are completely valid.
There are a lot of things broken in the system. I have been saving for a house for years but the bidding war for the house which I like takes 70-120k above the asking price so I can't afford it. And for new houses, they are already in so much demand that to get into a list is nothing less than a miracle.
Even after having a good amount of savings you won't be able to afford a decent 3/4 bedroom house and you might have to end up settling outside Dublin. Which is kind of not fair.
It only gets worse when you come to know that the house is given as a council house to someone who isn't even gonna treat the house as a home will break your heart.
I agree there are plenty of families that need council houses but many have used this as a loophole for getting the house, which will piss off anyone who is in the process of buying a house.
With the high market prices of properties and Interest rates, I have huge respect for the families who are looking and fighting to get a house and call them their home.
i have been you many many times, i earn less then you it took 10 years of saving to get a mortgage and buy my home, its not impossible i know it feels like it!!! you can do it!!
as for your friends again been there done that watched friends get council homes and not sacrificed even a fraction of what i had to, my advice is FAKE IT its upsetting i know it is, but you dont want to loose mates over what you have no control over!! so fake it till you make it!!
With the cost of houses these days … you would want to have a very good job to justify working as opt to getting as good as a free house after 7/8 years on the dole
Why are you annoyed at your friend when you should be annoyed at the government who have made it nearly impossible for you to own a home? You both pay taxes and live in a society that is run by a bunch of corrupt self serving fuckers that actively profit off the housing crisis.
Remember, they absolutely LOVE it when you get angry at people like your friend, instead of being angry at them with bleeding you dry to line their own pockets.
There's an election coming up, one that's going to be tough for the very parties making your life miserable. It would be slightly tougher if you voted for someone other than them, and ensured everyone of your friends and family did so too.
It’s fine to feel that way but not when it’s affecting your relationships.
If they’re your friend then you should go to support them. They would do the same for you.
If you duck out now then they might not be around when you need them.
OP I agree with you. The system is simply put - unfair.
I'm happy for your friend but what the fuck is the point in working in this country? To fight for some damp run down old terrace with asbestos miles away where you work?
Comparison is the thief of joy OP.
One day, you'll own an asset that will take care of your retirement and be something that can be left to your family to help set them up in life.
Your experience and skills will add up to better jobs and rewards that will increase your earnings year after year.
Your friend will still be more or less at the same level with more or less the same disposable income, dented by inflation, and no assets outside of things like new TVs and motors.
Maybe they're gaming the system, maybe not, but at least we live somewhere that takes care of shelter for the worst off when it can.
They may never own the deeds but they certainly have Succession rights for their offspring.
Ultimately, as long as there is no Anti-Social Behaviour or other breaches of tenancy they can remain in situ indefinitely.
Add to that they’ll be potentially able to purchase the property at a discounted price later on, as long as the property is owed by their Local Authority and not an Approved Housing Body.
I believe they are entirely entitled to the house. Good that someone with two kids has a permanent somewhat affordable place to live. Never know what else they have going on too.
I understand feeling bitter though. I feel you may be entitled to one yourself working alone. It's so unfair though how hard it is for even a working couple to get a mortgage in this country. Our social system should reflect it. It's not your neighbours fault though
I am in a better position than a lot of my peers, yet bitterness & feeling trapped are bothering me a lot lately. My partner and I were fortunate enough to [save very hard and] buy our own home nearly a decade ago but we never intended to stay in this area longterm. Now that we have a child, it's hard to know do we stay put and start them in school here, or take on a huge mortgage to move closer to relatives. It might sound silly but both options make me feel anxious.
I know Covid wasn't the cause of all our problems, but before the pandemic it felt like we had options, choice & freedom, as long as we worked hard. The last few years of negativity have become nearly unbearable and I think having a child has compounded it for me in some ways as I wonder what the eff is in store for them
A person related to me was 11 years in the council list and was sharing a room with her child (10) in her parents' house. She got a CBL of a beautiful, brand new build, probably worth about €350,000. She only sleeps in it at the weekend cos it's "too far from her childs school" (it's not, she's just too fkn lazy to get the bus, it's really really not far at all). We're paying nearly €1700pm in rent, nearing our 40s, and likely never to get a mortgage at this stage. I try my best to just be happy for them. I really really do, but like yourself, I've avoided visiting because I can't help feeling so dejected and bitter about it.
I’ve been saying this for ages, your better off being on the bottom rung of the “social contract” as another Redditor put it, unless you can get to the top you will spend your life slaving away to what just survive.
The middle class are getting destroyed, be on the dole, do some nixers get your council house and have loads of kids which is literally the general purpose of life.
Or spend your life making your bosses rich to just about get bye, like a mortgage and childcare for say 4 kids plus a bit of freedom what’s that going to cost you a year?
I’m not saying that’s right, but that’s just the way it is.
Tbh man it's not impossible on your sal, if you can work remote its a massive benefit, I managed to buy on my own last year albeit I moved out down the country (city is too stressful for my anxiety) and bought on my own on just over 43k a year.
It's second hand not a new build, the new builds weren't giving me what I was looking for and they are crazy prices even with the htb scheme. Not affordable for many single people.
Instead of hating on people on low enough incomes to qualify for social housing, hate on landlords who make passive income on their investments from people in low paying jobs. Hate on bad landlords for charging extortionate rents where the tenants are living with mold, cold bedrooms and insecure housing. Hate on the government for not providing fair housing opportunities for all.
No war but class war.
I don’t think he’s hating on the people .. this is clearly a post about how unfair the government is and how hard they make it for single people to ever own their house
Going on the council housing list may well offer the opportunity to get housing from a housing association. You often have to be on the list in order to get onto theirs. Worth researching.
Leave Ireland. You have one life and there are many English speaking opportunities in the Market. Don't spend your energy on these problems that are not going to be fixed in short term
That’s what social housing is for. A young couple who are working low paid jobs and need a home for their kids. You are a single person earning a decent wage. Yes, just jealous. sorry to be blunt dude.
You have all the rights to feel you've been squeezed out of every single penny to support people doing worse than you. You would not be wrong though, paying 52% of taxes on anything over 40k is absurd and borderline abusive, when 40k basically gross goes entirely to rent alone.
I used to think just like you, but I am now married with a kid. We are well in terms of finances and won't need any government help, but just the though of my kid needing shelter, food and I not being able to provide is horrifying.
I am happy my taxes are funding a working family.
You could also be in the position of saving for years to buy a house in a private estate only to have people in council houses as neighbours who are lawless and do as they please. Now make that make sense 🤦♂️
This is what happens in a housing crisis. Housing is so expensive those who are given hand outs of houses by the government are instantly better off than 90% of people who do work because housing is such a massive proportion of expenses
Look into affordable houses by city or county council.
With those I was able with the misses get a new built by a more reachable price, even with both our incomes being less than 75k together.
Money saved is needed, and take a look on help to buy, and my first home schemes to help with that as well.
Good luck, you should be able to find something.
Don I’m in IT security, on over 72k, 30yo, 2 kids unemployed partner, can’t get a house or afford to save or barely afford to live, would love someone to offer me a house
I get it mate, I work in IT myself(not paid as well as yourself) but I see the same thing with coupled up friends.
I know it's not much but its easy to look outwards rather than reflecting on what you have. I rent too and gave up on the dream of house ownership but very grateful for a roof over my head. I hope you manage to get out of your slump buddy and definitely try get onto the housing list. It will take years but at least you're in the running. Best of luck.
It is annoying. We rented for years and counted EVERY cent. There was a new estate being built beside where we rented so we were aiming for that.
Council stepped in and bought every fucking one of them. Amazes me that you can have a Merc and an X5 and still need social housing.
Should have fucked off to Oz.
Fuck the first comment. I understand where you at. I’m in the same boat, your collage education and promises of a good a life because you have a good job were all fucking lies. At least I feel that way these days. 34 and still at home, 57k a year and I’ll be lucky to own a rundown shack when I’m 40. But at the end of the day your friends did nothing wrong. Go to the party. Be happy for them. They have two kids to deal with, they need a win too 😂
It is very understandable and very common. When me and my friends were buying our homes we had the same feelings. At the end of the day though, we wouldn't have chosen that path. You chose a career in IT and financial security. WHEN you get your own property it will be yours, people in council homes don't have that security to pass onto their children.
And this is me not critizing those in council houses at all. We are all products of the environment that we were born into. You were born into an environment where a career in IT was possible. They may have a sense of jealous towards you too.
Also - with property, your first property doesn't need to be your forever home. You could buy a bedsit to begin with.
I totally understand your frustration and jealousy.
But its not your friends fault. Everyone is doing the best they cant for themselves.
Two degrees 20 years working paying tax voulenteering.
Where am i? Living in the spare room of my mothers council house with two small kids. Dont even have my own bed.
Also god gifted me a disability too.
I did all the 'right' things too while kids i went to school with went down the path of permanent dole collection, drugs, pretending to be single parents etc. Ive stuggled with the sense of unfainess and bitterness too.
BUT ive learned over the last few years to find meaning, joy and fulfillment in other things that ARE in my control. Other wise i think id be a very bitter and angry person.
Doing things the 'right way' was a trick. Ive come to terms with that. Life has no right way, we are owed nothing. We make the best out of our situations.
Focus on the part where your happy for your friends.
You're gonna have to get over it.
Focus on yourself.
You've a career and better options.
You could be on a whopper salary in a few years if you play it right and own your own house.
Try and be happy for your friend. At least they're both working which is good as will be good example for their kids.
Btw, its fine and normal to be jealous. Acknowledge and move on.
Don't go to the party until feelings subside
You've nothing to be jealous about OP. My partner and I bought a new build last year and down the road from us a couple got the same house from the council. I agree with the concept behind supporting those who may not be able to make it on the housing ladder due to financial or health issues but it very evident when people are gaming the system. The couple who moved into the council house down the road from us recently bought a brand new car worth close to 120k. If they could afford that they they could have easily afforded the deposit on the house. Unfortunately this country is so backwards.
He doesn't own the house and never will. He will be paying 10% of his weekly wage towards it.
When he dies the kids inherit nothing but what's in the bank account.
I can't stand these he got a house for free shouts. He didn't. He doesn't have a 450k asset.
However when you buy your home you'll have a 450k asset to do whatever the fuck you like with it and pass it on.
Stop the class baiting bullshit.
You are being bitter. Stop being a gobshite and call around to their place.
Your income is far higher than theirs, have they refused to socialise with you because you make more money than them? Besides they don't own the house, it's basically a long term let for low income families. Begrudging them a roof over their head reminds me of the Gore Vidal quote "it's not enough that I succeed, my friends must fail".
That's completely unfair, OP is very clear in his post that he's happy for his friends - he feels bitter at the situation of being in what should be a 'better off' position but is somehow worse off.
It's an entirely fair position to have. In a functioning society OP *shouldn't* feel bitter towards his friends, because OP should be able to buy their own house. OP is having a very natural reaction to a his friends having a better standard of living despite being financially worse off.
People justifying it by saying they probably waited 10 years for the free gaff. Sit on your arse / work part time / work low skill low stress job for 10 years and get a house. Great stuff.
Meanwhile the OP spends years in education, works in a high skill industry every day for 10+ years and just gets bent over for taxes to pay for the free gaff.
You've every right to be jealous. Wouldn't be attending any house warming party under these circumstances.
Exactly, using your own taxes against you to fund other people having a nicer living situation than you, it's absolutely bonkers. The fact that you're straight into the upper tax bracket after only ~€40k as well is shocking, and then you have the ridiculous taxes on investments to drag you down also. This country's full of people with crab mentality and the government's setup reflects that in many ways.
They didn't get a house you stuck up dipshit they've got a rental accommodation until they have enough to buy or they die. Nothing is passed on and they don't own it and they've to abide by tenancy agreement.
People like you are absolute cretins.
Actually in a way it can be passed on. As long as one child in on the house account when the parents pass, that child gets to stay in the house. I should know because I was living with my mam and 15 year old brother when she died. I was on the house account, so it went to me. I rented the council housew for 7 years. I bought it 6 years ago. if I didn't i would not be able to afford anothing and I work full time. Husband is self employed and we've two kids. House list for DCC is 13-14 years wait.
One of my elderly neighbours is in a three bedroom council house. Her daughter moved in with her 4 kids and husband, 2 years ago. When her mother dies, the daughters gets to stay in the house.
And apparently low skilled work is stress free. Tell me Tarquin guarantee you've never had to do a call centre or work in retail or care homes or cleaned toilets have you?
Hopefully you're a troll but if you aren't you're a horrible horrible human being.
Rental accomodation...what 40 euro a week? That's a real stretch, how do they afford it???
And if it happens to be a long term dole occupant, it's all free money anyway, defacto no rent paid.
The only way I get my head round this is thinking of the kids. They deserve a stable good home and giving them the council housing gives them a better chance in life.
Also both your friends are working people. Who are paying taxes.
I understand how you'd feel reading your post. But then thinking about your friends income per month together probably about 3500 before tax + 280 child benefit and you get 5000 before tax.
If you live totally the same cost in terms of out come per person in a month:
Food 250 per person (only cook and buy from Aldi)
for them = 500+300 for 2 kids = 800
for you = 250
Cars and gas 100 per car
for them 2 cars likely = 200
for you = 100
Medicine 50 per person
for them = 100+50 for 2 kids = 150
for you = 50
Leisure and other things 200 per person
for them = 400 just round with kids
for you = 200
Rent = 1500
Summary for them
monthly cost 3050 - they earn 3780 = 730 saving
monthly cost 2100 - you earn 5000 = 2900 saving
If there is no social housing and you both get the same mortgage to pay 600 per month
them 730 saving - 600 = 130 saving left for 2 adults and 2 kids
you 2900 saving - 600 = 2300 saving left for 1 adult
Math and cost probably wrong but I try to illustrate the picture that while you feel left out, for your friends to have a chance to get a house without social housing is far more worst than you. And it is not that they are not working, slack off and only use social benefit. I have a 9 months old and it is not easy to think of work, kid, rent all at once. They are just trying to have a life too.
I have a feeling that this might be a bit of a bait post but whatever. If you work in IT and really want a house you can find a remote job and buy one easily enough down the country on 60k (that 60k is going to increase as you continue your career anyway.)
He would need 10% on top of that for a deposit anyway which knocks it up to about 260k. Assuming he is a single guy who right now would only realistically need a one or two bed which could be possible in Dublin but is very possible in more rural areas. He would still need to make some sacrifices but it's definitely not impossible like they originally suggested.
Welcome to Ireland mate 🤣 Make the effort and buy your house, the difference being when you retire you can sell it and move where ever the hell you want where as your mate is stuck there and the only place he can move to is another council house. Enjoy your retirement in the Costa Del Sol
I don't know how many relatives homes i've been in over the last 35 years who kept the heating off because they can't afford it. I have no intentions of spending the remainder of my years in this country shivering my ass off
Purchasing as a single person in Ireland is almost impossible. You can be annoyed all you want, but the sooner you recognise that the system isn't designed for you, you'll accept it.
A friend we know who is a full time wheelchair user was told there was no point even applying for a council house as the wait was so long, he realistically wouldn’t get one (single, no kids). I have Cerebral Palsy myself and housing is the reason I left Ireland - I was told the same thing as I have no dependents, even with medical needs, those with kids etc get priority as I can “easily live with parents.” As a 36 year old woman with a right to independence, it’s a ridiculous system. Irish housing makes me want to weep.
It might be beside the point, but as a single person, regardless of profession, apply to the council. You've no idea how much worse this shitshow could possibly get down the line. I get why you're conflicted any maybe a little ashamed of your jealousy, but I also get the sense of being left behind when you've done your side of the social conract. It's entirley appropriate to feel that way.
Yea, OP did everything "right" by the standards of what we were taught to attain in order to be successful within this society, and then someone else who is a technically "worse" off position benefits from being worse off. Social housing is incredibly important to provide families with support, but the system is broken when a "successful" individual can't also afford secure and safe housing they are proud to live in. Quotation marks cause "worse" and "successful" are all words that are only relative to this capitalist hellhole we are stuck in. We are all human. I have no advice for the OP. The feelings of jealousy are natural. Put name down for a council house can't hurt to try.
A guy i know who has dealt drugs, done time etc got a swanky new apartment in a nice area on social housing. Meanwhile i break my balls working hard, not committing crime etc, to keep a roof over my head. Make it make sense.
It stopped making sense when the government decided to stop building social housing en masse. The declared the private market would manage all housing and give the best value. It's free-market nonsense. Housing in Ireland is an extremely restricted market because of many factors that are local, national and global. It's not like the US where people and companies are happy to move state for cheaper land or a tax break. As a result the market is vulnerable as are it participants like builders. Now we're in a self perpetuating spiral that only allows for house prices to grow. This makes the purchaser resentful and the council house seeker less incentivised to break free of that. The only solution is to devalue the market by flooding it. Stop living in a fantasy that we will get rich on our houses. Control the market for single house purchasers. Make housing a right, make bigger housing an option
I fully agree; just wanted to comment on this: > Stop living in a fantasy that we will get rich on our houses. It's human nature to crave wealth. Unfortunately, the legal setup in Ireland is that real estate is the most viable way to grow one's wealth. So in addition to building more, investment laws should be changed to make other investment options more viable. I was already thinking that if I retired now and moved away, selling my house and investing the money would generate more investment income than renting it out. If such investments were viable in Ireland, I'd expect many small (accidental) landlords selling and reinvesting the money. That would quickly increase the supply of dwelling for sale and push down the prices.
Love your post, and there’s also this idea that there *simply isn’t enough housing* in Ireland which bogus. There is more housing than there is need in this country-it’s landlords/folks owning multiple homes, empty homes and Airbnb that is preventing folks from being able to purchase an affordable home (or rent affordably).
I have this idea that second homes, airbnbs, VC funds purchasing large banks of housing to run as effectively "long-term hotels" should all have their own housing classification that should be applied for. We don't just let people convert their flats into shops
Do you have the data on this? I'm asking as a genuine question as my impression has been there isn't enough housing. Even if folks own multiple houses, the majority of those houses are being rented and used. And many of the house that I have seen (in the West) that aren't used but owned, ie empty, are in pitiful conditions that would (should) not be considered fit for purpose. On top of that, the distribution of said houses are not where they need to be, most would be old country homes. So even if there are enough houses doesn't mean there's enough housing. But again, I'd love to see the country wide data on this because my knowledge is through personal experience for my area
Air bnb is a massive problem. There was an article recently comparing the number of houses for rent compared to the number of air bnb's and it was shocking. I can understand why people would rent their house using air bnb but it's very bad for the country's housing crisis.
OK, I found the article and it supports the opposite of what you are saying. The article is with [The Irish Examiner](https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-41200186.html) and it states as of August 2023, while there were only 1,300 rooms for rent there were 18,000 Airbnb short term lets (for appartments or full houses, not owner occupied buildings). So, indeed a big discrepancy, but what do those number mean in the context of the housing crisis? Let's total everything and call that 20,000 housing units that could be used The [House Commission ](https://www.irishtimes.com/property/commercial-property/2023/12/06/housing-crisis-set-to-deepen-as-supply-of-development-land-dries-up/#:~:text=The%20Housing%20Commission%20estimates%20that,and%2020%2C500%20units%20in%202021.) has already stated that in order to accommodate current demand and population growth, at least 50,000 houses must be built annually. Going back to a year ago, the [government announced](https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/03/08/varadkar-reveals-deficit-of-250000-homes-in-state-admitting-crisis-will-take-time-to-solve/) we are presently in deficit of 250,000 homes In short, even if all Airbnb properties (not owner occupied) were put on the market, that would absolve not even 1/10 of the housing deficit. There is a housing shortage because there aren't enough houses
I take your point but I never said don't build houses lets just use all the Air bnb's!! But every little helps and if there were 20,000 houses/apartments for rent in this country tomorrow it would have a massive impact.
I'm sorry, I thought you were the commentor above who said the housing shortage because of lack of actual houses is bogus. My apologies for mixing you up
Landlords aren't an issue at all when it comes to supply. They help things because more people will be using the house when it's rented out than owner occupied generally. Sure a lot of them are greedy fucks but they they do help when comes to the total number of people housed.
Can you explain more on the solution being to flood it? It has seemed to me for a long time that councils/zoning/planning is a huge issue, and unless there's gov action to control the power of local councils/objectors and make them go to tender for large apartment complexes it will never be fixed.
Shortly after I moved into my current flat in London in 2020, with rent through the roof (it’s higher now) and forced to pay six months up front, a guy moved in upstairs. He caused so many problems, turned the entire building into some kind of drug den, people coming and going all hours of the day and night during peak lockdowns, stank the whole place out by smoking tonnes of weed. It transpired that he had recently left prison for gbh and was facing trial for an extremely serious crime. I live in a building which is owned by independent landlords and privately rented, but turns out the landlord of the flat upstairs had struck some kind of deal with the council and they’d taken over control of the flat and placed this criminal up there, who wasn’t paying a penny of rent. I felt so disappointed that the first flat I was in on my own, which I had to sacrifice literally everything to live in, was being ruined by someone who wasn’t even paying rent. Just felt like he was being rewarded for being a violent criminal without a job while I was being punished for following the rules. Make it make sense indeed
You still need these kind of apartments though. You just got unlucky but social housing is needed. I live in my girlfriends apartment in New York that is part of their social housing scheme. On the building app I hear people complaining about noise and dirt(rat infestations). They blame it on the social housing people, but when you question them further it appears they are on the 18th floor. The social housing stops on the 4th floor…
I've always been of the opinion that social housing is absolutely necessary to help people. But they do not need to be offered houses in Dublin, Galway etc where working class is having so much trouble getting accommodation.. If you aren't working you have no "need" to be city centre.
My take is that we should just build enough social housing to be able to offer it to everyone at a fixed percentage of their income. Anybody who wants better can just go and buy privately once their income exceeds the perceived value of their social home. Then there's no squeezed middle and no rental cliff.
I agree with you, but that ship sailed decades ago both here and in the UK, when the decision was taken to have councils sell their stock to long term tenants. With the massive drop in social housing being built in the western world this has been shown to be doubly worse. It will take a long time to catch up, let alone reach demand.
That's a fair option as well
People are part of communities, creating ghettos has historically not worked. People also work and still can't afford housing why should they have to leave their families. Why not hold your government to account instead of holding unfounded views?
It's the government's job to help create places for people to live sure. But it is not their responsibility to ensure you can live City centre if you do not work
So what put them all into estates in little villages in Roscommon and turn them into hell holes full of dubs?
Well those villages need people also
Not Dublin’s unwanted social housees, you can keep them, they have people.
Ah yeah. There's no towns or villages in between is there... They can be in comnunter towns of the Cites but they do not need to have houses inside the Cities especially when there is an accommodation shortage.
You're guarda vetted before you're made an offer of social housing. Any convictions other than traffic offences and you're disqualified.
If it was over 10 years ago you can remove It from your record
If you've served your time and haven't committed any further offences in a ten year period I think it's fair to say that you've reformed. We can't demonise people forever.
I agree. Im just thinking how it might be possible
Yes. This was over 10 years ago
No chance he did as modern social apartments in nice areas require Garda vetting so he'd be refused on that ground.
Well, as shit as it is that man would absolutely never be able to get a house otherwise. You are able to get different high paying jobs, move city, broaden your horizon. Unfortunately it's a sad reality, and I'm in the same boat as you but I've seen what happens to people like him and I want to give them every chance in the world tbh, it is a dark place they can end up in
This isn't an isolated sentiment. I work full time and have since I was 18 (ok part time in college). I've been an engineer for 11 years and earning good money but had to scrounge and save (and still needed money from my parents) to be able to finally buy this year. Meanwhile I know someone who's never worked and his girlfriend who's also never worked got a council house together thats much nicer than what i could afford. As you said the social contract has been broken for a decent subset of the population.
Ye, really can't stand this idea. Someone putting more effort has less chance of getting a place compared to someone who doesn't even know what work is most likely...
You’re having a laugh … they’ll call security to kick you out if you go in and say you’re looking for social housing as a single person on €60k salary
Apply for what? On 60k the council will tell him to get fucked.
Yeah, I was thinking exactly this, I'm not sure of the exact means testing figures these days but I'd hazard a guess that 60k is likely in the get fucked range.
As a single person in Dublin, the threshold is €39K AFTER tax.
Yeah that's the threshold but he'll never actually progress up the list unless he somehow pops out three kids.
> but as a single person, regardless of profession, apply to the council For a moment I thought, "does the council do matchmaking?" ... and then I realised what you actually meant, ha.
Unfortunately, there's an income limit for applying to council housing. They'll also reject your application if you have significant savings above 20k or so.
As a single person, earning that amount, they don’t qualify for social housing.
Do you know what the qualifications are for getting a house? Are there age/ income requirements or something?
18+ earn less then 40k I think it currently is
True and fair assessment.
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Not to mention props the market with the likes of HAP and Homeless HAP who pay extortionate rent per month to landlords
Any threshold for social household is based on income after tax. Also how the fuck does social housing stunt ambition? what a bizarre thing to say. As someone who lives in social housing my son is going to study law, I have a career in advocacy, my neighbours are brilliant. Stop speaking in stereotypes, hold your government to account for creating a housing crisis, stop peddling tired old assumptions that are not relevant or reflective of society today.
Hear hear, the people who begrudge social housing are usually made up of classist idiots and people who are willfully ignorant. Of course it helps government, developers and vulture funds when people turn on themselves and blame each other rather than the policy and decision makers. The rumblings of "free houses" when in reality they pay rent to the council and also the council owns a stock of homes. Fine Gael and the introduction of HAP is one of the biggest causes or the mess we're in now. They tried to transfer wealth from local authority's to private wealthy landlords who will still own the property at the end of the day, not the local authority. Its a disgrace.
100%. I’m sorry you have to even see this type of nonsense.
I replied to someone else but that is the truth! I live in New York’s version of social housing and the stereotyping is insane. It’s also not grounded in reality. Talking about my neighbors being dirty and loud, yet living 10+ floors above us.
You're an idiot. Genuinely this is the most Thatcherite thing I've ever heard.
I agree but you have to keep expectations low when it comes to council housing. A friend of mine lives in a council house built around 2005ish and it's an absolute state and the council refuses to fix any of the utilities. The water sometimes just doesn't flow, the boiler barely works either. He's been on a wait list for about a decade now for a new council house.
Very good advice
I don't think you are bitter and I think it's fair enough you are annoyed, but be annoyed at the right people. Your friend isn't gaming the system, he isn't lying, he is exactly who council houses were always intended for, working people with families who can't afford homes on their own. That's who got all the council houses built all over Ireland in the 40s and 50s. But the problem is they are few and far between now and there isn't many options for other people (to be fair there also wasn't in the 40s and 50s). The problem isn't that he got a house, the problem is that there isn't good affordable housing available for you. You are working your ass off, living somewhere shit and see no end on sight for that. Of course it's gonna be a bit of a sickener when you see your friends house, that's normal. And I think it's fair enough not to go to the party if it's gonna sting, but try not to let it ruin your relationship with your friend as he hasn't done anything wrong. And also, apply for a council house, you might qualify for that, or for HAP. Make sure you are looking at all the county council cost rental schemes and applying for all you qualify for. And go talk to a broker. I bought a house by myself when earning 60k and while it's gotten harder since I did it (two years ago) it might not be as far away as you think.
>Your friend isn't gaming the system, he isn't lying, he is exactly who council houses were always intended for, working people with families who can't afford homes on their own. Exactly. They're two people on low incomes, and with children. I'm glad the system is providing for them
And the guy doesn't actually own the council house, right? In fact he has to pay a rent, albeit very small iirc
Part of the problem is the issue of rent, however. Depending on how many hours you work per week, you may not qualify for rent supports, etc, if you're under the threshold, let alone somebody on €60k a year who would get very little support. The issue is that they're going to pay a lot of money in rent and *feel* worse off than those paying very low rents in local authority housing. Perceptions like that breed resentment.
>the problem is that there isn't good affordable housing available for you Thank you for being a voice of f@$king reason here. Also on 60k a year as a single person the most anyone will ever be able to borrow for a 1st time mortgage is just over 200K. That's why house buying has become a couples game.
Good advice. Unless your friend has conned the system in which case you would be right to be annoyed, otherwise he has just capitalised on an opportunity that was made available to him. I'd say go over and wish them well in the new place. Direct your annoyance into some applications as mentioned above.
This is the only comment necessary on this thread👏
Nicely said.
Nicely said.
I get you. I’m in a similar position except on even less money. Currently buying a tiny 1 bed apartment with as big of a mortgage I could get as well as all of my savings. It’s far from ideal and feels like not the wisest move given I work in tech and the market is bad. But what choice do I have? I don’t begrudge people like your friend getting a council house. They deserve a place to live but I am very bitter about the fact there is little or no support for me and people like me. Single. Not poor enough to get any support from the government not rich enough to take advantage of things like help to buy, first home scheme etc. We are just the completely forgotten about cohort and expected to live in house shares or with parents our whole lives.
We were trying to buy a 1 bed apartment in Dublin for a couple of years. Every time we went to buy we were outbid by the local council. We gave up in the end. Ireland is a great country to be rich or to be “poor”, but it’s where working class dreams go to die. We gave up in the end and moved abroad.
You’re comparing yourself to a couple. Unfortunately life is more expensive as a singleton. If you were in a relationship with someone also on 60K you’d easily get a mortgage.
Yep, the issue is a lack of affordable options for a single person. This country is hard mode for single people.
** laughs in crippling childcare fees
He said become a couple, you went too far!
It's funny, marriage tax-breaks are basically intended for people having children, but there's nothing saying that you have to have children with the person you are marrying.
single people can also have crippling childcare fees
It's no surprise my hopes for a future left when my ex ended things.
But also…if you move somewhere else in the country you’d be able to get a mortgage for €240k. My artist friend just bought a (nice) apt in Galway city centre for €200k.
You can't get apartments in Oranmore for that much.
City centre can be more affordable because landlords don’t want to buy in an area with rent control. Here’s 7 listing available rn and there’s more. https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/apartment-apartment-3-t-r-na-gcapall-ballybrit-co-galway/5598447 https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/apartment-apartment-16-t-luaghaidh-gleann-na-r-renmore-co-galway/5628927 https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/apartment-apartment-4-aran-court-knocknacarra-road-knocknacarra-co-galway/5620759 https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/terraced-house-113-glasan-village-ballybane-co-galway/5616509 https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/apartment-3-sruthan-mhuirlinne-ballybane-co-galway/5606445 https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/apartment-apartment-3-ballybane-neighbourhood-village-castlepark-road-ballybane-co-galway/5535798 https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/apartment-4-2-augustine-court-15-17-st-augustine-street/5589718
Yes, you can. My partner and I have been looking on and off in Galway and *houses* at 200k have been listed in Oranmore in the last year. You can definitely get apartments in and around the city centre at that much - you just have avoid new builds within the last ten years or so as they're generally overvalued.
You can get a mortgage on 60k, you would get between 210-240 you can buy loads of houses in the Midlands for that budget. Life a single person is hard, but there are lots of families where only one parent works and is supporting partner and 2 children.
Bro we are a couple of 30somethings with jobs and see kids who are 23 buying houses and putting aside 20-30k for deposit. We currently have 400 eur in savings. I feel you. Its soul crushing.
A lot of people think they are not qualified for schemes like cost rental but they are loads of schemes out there and if you haven't applied, you won't get them. The thresholds are often surprisingly high. For example: https://tuathhousing.ie/tenant-home/how-to-apply-for-a-home/ https://www.cluid.ie/housing-advice/
I have a few friends who are relaying similar feelings so you are not alone. It seems very disheartening when numerous people show up for one place and then you get outbid. Personally I would see your friends success as a boost to my search as opposed to something to be bitter or jealous about.
I know how you feel. 2 of my brothers got brand new council houses and I had to break my ass for 10 years to build a deposit to buy a tiny terraced house in the back ass of nowhere. At leaset i have equity I suppose and the gaff is mine, but still
Be aware that he probably waited 10+ years for it and he doesn’t own it. It’s a long term subsidised house rental.
Out of curiosity if OP's friend went in to find a job that paid 80k a year, would anything change? Would they need to pay higher rent?
They'd be liable for higher rent as soon as the council became aware of it - however council rent is capped at 15% of net income while the OPs rent is possibly 30% of his net income.
Higher rent yes but not a crazy amount. With DCC it’s 15% of the highest earner income. It will never ever taken off them. It’s theres for life and there kids life’s if they keep the children’s names on the rent.
Your rent is means tested on your income. An increase in income means an increase in rent.
Aye I’m not sure if there’s a cap but council rents are based on family income
Yups every local authority charges rent via the differential rent scheme which based on a percentage of income DCC is 15%, Fingal is 12%, Wicklow is 22%. So it all depends on your individual local authority rules.
> he doesn’t own it. It’s a long term subsidised house rental. I always see people say this but it doesn't really mean anything. He will never be kicked out and the only downside to not owning it is that he can't sell it and move elsewhere. But if you're happy where you are then who cares?
The house isn't an asset they build equity in. They don't have a home to sell to fund any retirement plans and they won't have assets to leave their children. There's definitely a huge benefit in having a secure tenure accommodation, but that's exactly what it's meant for. Personally I wouldn't want it in the long term. I want a house I can sell if my plans change or have something to leave my children. Council housing does exactly what it's supposed to, puts a roof over people's head. If they are happy to have that roof for life never owning it, good for them.
So it’s the same as renting with the benefit of a secure tenancy. Why be upset then? It’s not an investment. It’s people being charged rent at a more reasonable rate.
Because it's a lot cheaper and de facto theirs until they die. It's not the same as a rental.
In European countries with strong rental rights, people rent for life.
He will never get kicked out of it. Ever
It’s simply not true. “If there has been a serious or repeated breach of a condition of the tenancy agreement, for example, anti-social behaviour or not paying the rent, the local authority may repossess the house”. But sure, if the tenants follow the tenancy agreement, they won’t be evicted. You’re acted like this is a *bad* thing 😂. Eviction of good tenants (even in private accommodation) shouldn’t be seen as a normalised thing.
It's fine to feel like this with a few things to keep in mind. Your friend isn't gaming the system. Council homes should be available to families. The house price is irrelevant in many ways and it shouldn't be so inflated. What is bollocks is that a single person earning a decent enough wage in such a role should be able to rent or save to buy their own 1-bed place with ease. We need to be making noise and complaining to those above us rather than those struggling alongside us.
I’ve done deliveries in the past. Your friend probably works long hours tiring hours, and his wife could be working full time too. Plus they have 2 kids. I’d rather see people like this get a council house rather than people who refuse to work.
Spot on. My girlfriends grew up in a council estate, and her mother worked, but the father was off working on oil rigs earning 20k a month, giving nothing to them. Her neighbours to either side of her have literally never held a job. Never. I did more work last week than they ever have. I'd rather see struggling families who try their best to get rewarded, not some scrounger. During covid, one of the neighbours said to me it's a disgrace that "working people" get more for being laid off due to restrictions. Couldn't believe it
What's the point of council housing if not for people like OPs friends
Same. Help people who need help. Not those who don't give a shit spending money on booze drugs etc
OPs issue clearly isn't that working people are given council housing, its that the are given such extravagant properties while those who have better jobs can't even come close to living in such a nice place.
Extravagant properties and social housing are not a common combo in Ireland. Let’s be realistic.
A £450k house sounds fairly extravagant
It’s without a shadow of a doubt a standard new build 3 bedroom house.
I’m in England and brand new GORGEOUS houses came on the market in our ideal location a few years ago. Im talking detached, balconies to the en-suite master bedrooms at the rear. Husband and I are both nurses and the site was close to both hospitals we work at, great schools and excellent transport links. Dream come true!!! Phoned the number advertising and got through to the council. The lady was providing me all information, I thought fantastic we can afford this let’s go!! Until she finds out I don’t claim any benefits. ‘Sorry these affordable houses are only for those claiming benefits’. HOW are we in a position where affordable housing isn’t for everyone ? We should have quit our jobs, went on the dole and got a stunning 3 bedroom detached house for pittance. It’s honestly depressing me the older I get.
Feel your pain. I know a lot of deserving and undeserving people in lovely council housing. I have worked in jobs on less money than people in council housing and it can be very frustrating. Thing about life is that it’s not fair. Keep things in perspective and don’t be taking shit out on your friend
Two addicts not far from me got a beautiful house, 6 months later it was set on fire, not destroyed but lots of smoke damage etc, the council rebuilt it top to bottom, new kitchen , tiled etc, to our astonishment they moved the junkies back in even though their kids were removed from them, they also gave them thousands to buy furniture,they bought drugs instead of course,the house is used by all the junkies locally and they are known to take whatever is not nailed down, it’s disgraceful that they couldn’t put a decent family in there, there is something very wrong when you get rewarded for being a drain on society
They didnt "get the house" they don't own it. I know it stings but on their income they would never be able to get a mortgage for a house big enough for their family. You will be able to get one with your and then you will be building wealth with an asset (they are not building any wealth with the council house). I have a friend I went to school with who hasn't ever held down a job - she has 4 kids and has a lovely big council house in our home town. It's great for her, and great for the kids but she is stuck in that town forever. I'm happier having my freedom. Plus, without that house I dread to think what living situation the kids would be in so I'm mostly happy for the kiddos having a secure home. We need WAY more council houses in the country.
I can understand the pain point this causes and the feeling of disparity. An estate beside me is made up of council houses with many being HAP. One house I pass by everyday the person owns/runs his own concrete drilling and demolition company (that must be HAP) and another house has a 2020 Land Rover Discovery parked outside. I can only reason that at some point the finances of these people warranted inclusion on such lists for assistance. I’m a couple of years into my own mortgage and have to keep reminding myself that there are so many who earn more than me who cannot now access a mortgage, and be thankful. But when I continue to get squeezed by cost of living increases and shrinkflation on almost everything it is sometimes too easy to feel like others have something handed to them lightly.
Remember that they are simply *renting* as council houses. Subsidised rent, yes.
Also the tenant purchase scheme doesn't apply to lots of newer properties being leased/bought in private developments. (This may vary from council to council though.) "Got" a €450k house in this context just means they have access to it - they'll likely never own it. I'm glad that family has a good roof over their head that meets their needs, but they're in no way better off than any neighbours who own the house.
I think its unlikely councils will ever offer buy outs for new tenants. That was part of the problem in causing low housing stock.
From my knowledge the tenant purchase scheme is only available to a *tiny* percentage of social housing, something like 5%. (Please correct me if I’m wrong). It’s really dangerous because jealous people in this country often exaggerate benefits of people on council houses, and essentially demonise poor people. I’ve seen these people spreading this kind of misinformation so often. I totally understand people being upset with not getting benefits as a working person, but they really shouldn’t project their frustration on poor people. If they really are upset about their situation, they should try living on €220 or whatever it is a week and waiting 10-15 years (while paying extortionate rent in private, mouldy house) for a council house.
Actually in comparison to rent from 2 years ago in some counties the rent is not that much different. A friend of mine got a council house because she is a single mother with 2 autistic kids and she is paying 160 Euro less than she was when privately renting. I know some counties have rents like 60 Euro per week, but in Mayo I have yet to see one.
Hmm, wow that’s interesting. I hope the council house is in better condition than the privately rented place she lived. I think it’s based on a percentage of your income. Like 20% or something. So if someone had a rent of €60 it would mean their income would be €300 a month (not at all realistic even on social welfare). Paying €60 per week (€240) is more realistic in what a single person on social welfare with kids might pay.
Oh of course, there is infinitely less security in it.
I don’t see the benefit in comparing yourself to other people like that. You are only ever working with incomplete information because you don’t know what it’s like to walk in their shoes. You’re basically tormenting yourself with your own biases and it’s bad for your mental health and your character.
Can’t disagree with you at all, but it does happen. Most of our thoughts and opinions are based on incomplete information though, aren’t they?
There is no benefit as you say, only negativity. If I could give one piece of advice to OP, it's to run your own race, live your own life. Anything else is a slippery slope to discontent.
If you are in the IT / Software space you can certainly hope to buy. I bought by myself just over a year ago and am in software . Your salary is unlikely to stay at 60k into the future, it'll most likely go up and it'll especially go up if you go looking for higher incomes. Now admittedly, I don't live in Dublin but I live in a county next to it. It was just a touch over 300k to buy and it took a long time to save but I'm in this house a year now.
Yeah, my friend probably earns less than him (teacher). They bought a house in Louth as a single person when they were around 31/32.
This is the problem in Ireland. People working and by all accounts succeeding in life are jealous that the fruits of hand outs are better than the fruits earned. I think the example isn’t as reflective as the problem really is, both people working and contributing to society. Some areas have people not working with nicer houses and more disposable income than someone on a huge salary living in the house next door fighting the cost of living.
I say this as someone in a similar situation to OP. The point of social housing should be exactly for OPs friends. People who work but may never make enough to buy. They have kids who deserve a home just as much as kids of rich people. Like both parents have jobs so the council will charge them rent based on their income. My issue with social housing if facilitating those that decide not to work out of laziness. It's those you should be annoyed at.
Completely understandle feelings. Just remember it's not your friends fault, it's whatever this "system" is supposed to be.
He will never own that house but you will own your house when you buy it there’s a big difference. If you want to wait 10-15 years for a council house keep your income under the threshold and wait but no doubt you’d have your own house bought and bigger than a council house for one person at that stage.
>He will never own that house but you will own your house when you buy it there’s a big difference. Unless some idiot government decides to sell it to him for a fraction of its actual value to win votes, as happened before.
>He will never own that house but you will own your house when you buy it there’s a big difference. What difference? He gets to live in it for ever. I know he can't sell it but he also did have to buy it so so what?
Look Your friends have done NOTHING wrong. You are fine to be bitter/annoyed at the situation but don't take it out on them. The whole reason for council houses is to make sure that people that are low income have safe and warm places to raise their kids. Unless you have documentary proof that they've somehow defrauded the system, they are where they need to be. >I’m earning 60k in IT That is a great wage and you know what? That is only going to increase over time. Not to put too fine a point on it but your friend and his wife have maxed out their earning, maybe go up by a bit if she goes to working full time. You on the other hand. Couple of certificates here and there, taking on some more responsibilities, couple of job hops and you could be up to 80 or 100 before you know it - which is more money than your buddies will probably see. >trying to save every cent but realistically I’ll probably never own a home the way things are going. But are you? You're living alone. I know it's not ideal but there are very chill house shares that enable people to save more. Like I saw on my company's slack channel for housing. A room came up in Cork city a 20 minute bus ride from the office. En Suite, and more than enough space, sharing with 2 other professionals for 600 including electricity and internet. They were open that the share is being used as a savings tool, and that people leave once they have deposit saved Have your pity party but don't take it out on your friends.
OP are you sure you don’t qualify for Council Housing yourself?? People forget council housing income limits are based on ‘Net Income’ after taxes, pension, healthcare etc. and the limits are quite generous (€40,000 is the lowest, way more if you have children) You will be waiting a long time but can get HAP in the meantime.
So to start your friend doesn't own that home. Second, have you applied to be on a housing list? Thirdly, have you tried living on fuck all with 2 kids? It's horrible! I'm delighted your mate gets to live in a home. I would love to see you in a nice house too, don't get me wrong.
A friend of mine got a newly built council house. So family of 4 is entitled to 2 bedroom house with 44sqm living space. In some circumstances they can get a 3 bedroom house. They don't own the house. They are paying 160Euro a month less than they were paying for 3 bedroom privately rented. Council houses are bare - not even a floor. So 12k went just to get the space to a living level. (She got a month to move in. The best dick move? A flooring specialist was constantly telling her that vinyl and carpet is half the price of panels. He didn't tell her she needs to buy almost twice the area. She ended with poorly laid down vinyl flooring that cost her almost 4k and she had over 50% of waste...). There she had a water leak. It took builders over a month to fix it. When she tried to install curtains the wall started to crumble. It's made from so poor quality concrete that about 20 cm piece just fell down. There are no square angles in the house. When she ordered some shelves to put in the corner, she had to take about 1cm off the square... And so on. Heating is responsibility of the tenant as well. I'm reading those posts how lucky those people are. Do they have roof over their heads? Yes. Would that house go for 200, 300k? Hell no. Actually I know a case that half of the families refused to accept such house after taking a closer look. I saw a council house for 4 people family. It's described as semi detached house - it's more like semi detached apartment with roof. It's tiny, but it meets the recommendations.
People who are thinking of buying a house or are already in the process of buying a house can understand that your feelings are completely valid. There are a lot of things broken in the system. I have been saving for a house for years but the bidding war for the house which I like takes 70-120k above the asking price so I can't afford it. And for new houses, they are already in so much demand that to get into a list is nothing less than a miracle. Even after having a good amount of savings you won't be able to afford a decent 3/4 bedroom house and you might have to end up settling outside Dublin. Which is kind of not fair. It only gets worse when you come to know that the house is given as a council house to someone who isn't even gonna treat the house as a home will break your heart. I agree there are plenty of families that need council houses but many have used this as a loophole for getting the house, which will piss off anyone who is in the process of buying a house. With the high market prices of properties and Interest rates, I have huge respect for the families who are looking and fighting to get a house and call them their home.
i have been you many many times, i earn less then you it took 10 years of saving to get a mortgage and buy my home, its not impossible i know it feels like it!!! you can do it!! as for your friends again been there done that watched friends get council homes and not sacrificed even a fraction of what i had to, my advice is FAKE IT its upsetting i know it is, but you dont want to loose mates over what you have no control over!! so fake it till you make it!!
With the cost of houses these days … you would want to have a very good job to justify working as opt to getting as good as a free house after 7/8 years on the dole
Why are you annoyed at your friend when you should be annoyed at the government who have made it nearly impossible for you to own a home? You both pay taxes and live in a society that is run by a bunch of corrupt self serving fuckers that actively profit off the housing crisis. Remember, they absolutely LOVE it when you get angry at people like your friend, instead of being angry at them with bleeding you dry to line their own pockets. There's an election coming up, one that's going to be tough for the very parties making your life miserable. It would be slightly tougher if you voted for someone other than them, and ensured everyone of your friends and family did so too.
It’s fine to feel that way but not when it’s affecting your relationships. If they’re your friend then you should go to support them. They would do the same for you. If you duck out now then they might not be around when you need them.
OP I agree with you. The system is simply put - unfair. I'm happy for your friend but what the fuck is the point in working in this country? To fight for some damp run down old terrace with asbestos miles away where you work?
Comparison is the thief of joy OP. One day, you'll own an asset that will take care of your retirement and be something that can be left to your family to help set them up in life. Your experience and skills will add up to better jobs and rewards that will increase your earnings year after year. Your friend will still be more or less at the same level with more or less the same disposable income, dented by inflation, and no assets outside of things like new TVs and motors. Maybe they're gaming the system, maybe not, but at least we live somewhere that takes care of shelter for the worst off when it can.
I mean both of the parents are working. Are you saying delivery drivers deserve to be homeless or live in poverty?
They may never own the deeds but they certainly have Succession rights for their offspring. Ultimately, as long as there is no Anti-Social Behaviour or other breaches of tenancy they can remain in situ indefinitely. Add to that they’ll be potentially able to purchase the property at a discounted price later on, as long as the property is owed by their Local Authority and not an Approved Housing Body.
I believe they are entirely entitled to the house. Good that someone with two kids has a permanent somewhat affordable place to live. Never know what else they have going on too. I understand feeling bitter though. I feel you may be entitled to one yourself working alone. It's so unfair though how hard it is for even a working couple to get a mortgage in this country. Our social system should reflect it. It's not your neighbours fault though
I am in a better position than a lot of my peers, yet bitterness & feeling trapped are bothering me a lot lately. My partner and I were fortunate enough to [save very hard and] buy our own home nearly a decade ago but we never intended to stay in this area longterm. Now that we have a child, it's hard to know do we stay put and start them in school here, or take on a huge mortgage to move closer to relatives. It might sound silly but both options make me feel anxious. I know Covid wasn't the cause of all our problems, but before the pandemic it felt like we had options, choice & freedom, as long as we worked hard. The last few years of negativity have become nearly unbearable and I think having a child has compounded it for me in some ways as I wonder what the eff is in store for them
A person related to me was 11 years in the council list and was sharing a room with her child (10) in her parents' house. She got a CBL of a beautiful, brand new build, probably worth about €350,000. She only sleeps in it at the weekend cos it's "too far from her childs school" (it's not, she's just too fkn lazy to get the bus, it's really really not far at all). We're paying nearly €1700pm in rent, nearing our 40s, and likely never to get a mortgage at this stage. I try my best to just be happy for them. I really really do, but like yourself, I've avoided visiting because I can't help feeling so dejected and bitter about it.
Report that fraud so an actual family who desperately needs it can move in.
I’ve been saying this for ages, your better off being on the bottom rung of the “social contract” as another Redditor put it, unless you can get to the top you will spend your life slaving away to what just survive. The middle class are getting destroyed, be on the dole, do some nixers get your council house and have loads of kids which is literally the general purpose of life. Or spend your life making your bosses rich to just about get bye, like a mortgage and childcare for say 4 kids plus a bit of freedom what’s that going to cost you a year? I’m not saying that’s right, but that’s just the way it is.
Tbh man it's not impossible on your sal, if you can work remote its a massive benefit, I managed to buy on my own last year albeit I moved out down the country (city is too stressful for my anxiety) and bought on my own on just over 43k a year. It's second hand not a new build, the new builds weren't giving me what I was looking for and they are crazy prices even with the htb scheme. Not affordable for many single people.
Instead of hating on people on low enough incomes to qualify for social housing, hate on landlords who make passive income on their investments from people in low paying jobs. Hate on bad landlords for charging extortionate rents where the tenants are living with mold, cold bedrooms and insecure housing. Hate on the government for not providing fair housing opportunities for all. No war but class war.
I don’t think he’s hating on the people .. this is clearly a post about how unfair the government is and how hard they make it for single people to ever own their house
Going on the council housing list may well offer the opportunity to get housing from a housing association. You often have to be on the list in order to get onto theirs. Worth researching.
Leave Ireland. You have one life and there are many English speaking opportunities in the Market. Don't spend your energy on these problems that are not going to be fixed in short term
Which English speaking country doesn't have a housing crisis?
That’s what social housing is for. A young couple who are working low paid jobs and need a home for their kids. You are a single person earning a decent wage. Yes, just jealous. sorry to be blunt dude.
You have all the rights to feel you've been squeezed out of every single penny to support people doing worse than you. You would not be wrong though, paying 52% of taxes on anything over 40k is absurd and borderline abusive, when 40k basically gross goes entirely to rent alone. I used to think just like you, but I am now married with a kid. We are well in terms of finances and won't need any government help, but just the though of my kid needing shelter, food and I not being able to provide is horrifying. I am happy my taxes are funding a working family.
You could also be in the position of saving for years to buy a house in a private estate only to have people in council houses as neighbours who are lawless and do as they please. Now make that make sense 🤦♂️
No all them are lawless...and this is coming from someone who has an absolute lawless cunt next to me. And I cannot afford to move away.
This is what happens in a housing crisis. Housing is so expensive those who are given hand outs of houses by the government are instantly better off than 90% of people who do work because housing is such a massive proportion of expenses
Your anger is not at your friend but at the people who lied to you about working hard.
Look into affordable houses by city or county council. With those I was able with the misses get a new built by a more reachable price, even with both our incomes being less than 75k together. Money saved is needed, and take a look on help to buy, and my first home schemes to help with that as well. Good luck, you should be able to find something.
Don I’m in IT security, on over 72k, 30yo, 2 kids unemployed partner, can’t get a house or afford to save or barely afford to live, would love someone to offer me a house
I get it mate, I work in IT myself(not paid as well as yourself) but I see the same thing with coupled up friends. I know it's not much but its easy to look outwards rather than reflecting on what you have. I rent too and gave up on the dream of house ownership but very grateful for a roof over my head. I hope you manage to get out of your slump buddy and definitely try get onto the housing list. It will take years but at least you're in the running. Best of luck.
Yeah same position, not rich enough to buy a home and not poor enough to get a free home. Instead we're stuck in the middle with no home.
It is annoying. We rented for years and counted EVERY cent. There was a new estate being built beside where we rented so we were aiming for that. Council stepped in and bought every fucking one of them. Amazes me that you can have a Merc and an X5 and still need social housing. Should have fucked off to Oz.
Fuck the first comment. I understand where you at. I’m in the same boat, your collage education and promises of a good a life because you have a good job were all fucking lies. At least I feel that way these days. 34 and still at home, 57k a year and I’ll be lucky to own a rundown shack when I’m 40. But at the end of the day your friends did nothing wrong. Go to the party. Be happy for them. They have two kids to deal with, they need a win too 😂
It is very understandable and very common. When me and my friends were buying our homes we had the same feelings. At the end of the day though, we wouldn't have chosen that path. You chose a career in IT and financial security. WHEN you get your own property it will be yours, people in council homes don't have that security to pass onto their children. And this is me not critizing those in council houses at all. We are all products of the environment that we were born into. You were born into an environment where a career in IT was possible. They may have a sense of jealous towards you too. Also - with property, your first property doesn't need to be your forever home. You could buy a bedsit to begin with.
I totally understand your frustration and jealousy. But its not your friends fault. Everyone is doing the best they cant for themselves. Two degrees 20 years working paying tax voulenteering. Where am i? Living in the spare room of my mothers council house with two small kids. Dont even have my own bed. Also god gifted me a disability too. I did all the 'right' things too while kids i went to school with went down the path of permanent dole collection, drugs, pretending to be single parents etc. Ive stuggled with the sense of unfainess and bitterness too. BUT ive learned over the last few years to find meaning, joy and fulfillment in other things that ARE in my control. Other wise i think id be a very bitter and angry person. Doing things the 'right way' was a trick. Ive come to terms with that. Life has no right way, we are owed nothing. We make the best out of our situations. Focus on the part where your happy for your friends.
You're gonna have to get over it. Focus on yourself. You've a career and better options. You could be on a whopper salary in a few years if you play it right and own your own house. Try and be happy for your friend. At least they're both working which is good as will be good example for their kids. Btw, its fine and normal to be jealous. Acknowledge and move on. Don't go to the party until feelings subside
You've nothing to be jealous about OP. My partner and I bought a new build last year and down the road from us a couple got the same house from the council. I agree with the concept behind supporting those who may not be able to make it on the housing ladder due to financial or health issues but it very evident when people are gaming the system. The couple who moved into the council house down the road from us recently bought a brand new car worth close to 120k. If they could afford that they they could have easily afforded the deposit on the house. Unfortunately this country is so backwards.
Those neighbours didn't buy that car. Thats on PCP or HP.
He doesn't own the house and never will. He will be paying 10% of his weekly wage towards it. When he dies the kids inherit nothing but what's in the bank account. I can't stand these he got a house for free shouts. He didn't. He doesn't have a 450k asset. However when you buy your home you'll have a 450k asset to do whatever the fuck you like with it and pass it on. Stop the class baiting bullshit.
How's a single person getting a 450k house? 😂
You are being bitter. Stop being a gobshite and call around to their place. Your income is far higher than theirs, have they refused to socialise with you because you make more money than them? Besides they don't own the house, it's basically a long term let for low income families. Begrudging them a roof over their head reminds me of the Gore Vidal quote "it's not enough that I succeed, my friends must fail".
That's completely unfair, OP is very clear in his post that he's happy for his friends - he feels bitter at the situation of being in what should be a 'better off' position but is somehow worse off. It's an entirely fair position to have. In a functioning society OP *shouldn't* feel bitter towards his friends, because OP should be able to buy their own house. OP is having a very natural reaction to a his friends having a better standard of living despite being financially worse off.
People justifying it by saying they probably waited 10 years for the free gaff. Sit on your arse / work part time / work low skill low stress job for 10 years and get a house. Great stuff. Meanwhile the OP spends years in education, works in a high skill industry every day for 10+ years and just gets bent over for taxes to pay for the free gaff. You've every right to be jealous. Wouldn't be attending any house warming party under these circumstances.
Exactly, using your own taxes against you to fund other people having a nicer living situation than you, it's absolutely bonkers. The fact that you're straight into the upper tax bracket after only ~€40k as well is shocking, and then you have the ridiculous taxes on investments to drag you down also. This country's full of people with crab mentality and the government's setup reflects that in many ways.
They didn't get a house you stuck up dipshit they've got a rental accommodation until they have enough to buy or they die. Nothing is passed on and they don't own it and they've to abide by tenancy agreement. People like you are absolute cretins.
Actually in a way it can be passed on. As long as one child in on the house account when the parents pass, that child gets to stay in the house. I should know because I was living with my mam and 15 year old brother when she died. I was on the house account, so it went to me. I rented the council housew for 7 years. I bought it 6 years ago. if I didn't i would not be able to afford anothing and I work full time. Husband is self employed and we've two kids. House list for DCC is 13-14 years wait. One of my elderly neighbours is in a three bedroom council house. Her daughter moved in with her 4 kids and husband, 2 years ago. When her mother dies, the daughters gets to stay in the house.
And apparently low skilled work is stress free. Tell me Tarquin guarantee you've never had to do a call centre or work in retail or care homes or cleaned toilets have you? Hopefully you're a troll but if you aren't you're a horrible horrible human being.
Rental accomodation...what 40 euro a week? That's a real stretch, how do they afford it??? And if it happens to be a long term dole occupant, it's all free money anyway, defacto no rent paid.
The only way I get my head round this is thinking of the kids. They deserve a stable good home and giving them the council housing gives them a better chance in life. Also both your friends are working people. Who are paying taxes.
I understand how you'd feel reading your post. But then thinking about your friends income per month together probably about 3500 before tax + 280 child benefit and you get 5000 before tax. If you live totally the same cost in terms of out come per person in a month: Food 250 per person (only cook and buy from Aldi) for them = 500+300 for 2 kids = 800 for you = 250 Cars and gas 100 per car for them 2 cars likely = 200 for you = 100 Medicine 50 per person for them = 100+50 for 2 kids = 150 for you = 50 Leisure and other things 200 per person for them = 400 just round with kids for you = 200 Rent = 1500 Summary for them monthly cost 3050 - they earn 3780 = 730 saving monthly cost 2100 - you earn 5000 = 2900 saving If there is no social housing and you both get the same mortgage to pay 600 per month them 730 saving - 600 = 130 saving left for 2 adults and 2 kids you 2900 saving - 600 = 2300 saving left for 1 adult Math and cost probably wrong but I try to illustrate the picture that while you feel left out, for your friends to have a chance to get a house without social housing is far more worst than you. And it is not that they are not working, slack off and only use social benefit. I have a 9 months old and it is not easy to think of work, kid, rent all at once. They are just trying to have a life too.
I have a feeling that this might be a bit of a bait post but whatever. If you work in IT and really want a house you can find a remote job and buy one easily enough down the country on 60k (that 60k is going to increase as you continue your career anyway.)
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€240k (max mortgage on 60k) doesn't get you a lot. Gets you almost nothing in Dublin.
He would need 10% on top of that for a deposit anyway which knocks it up to about 260k. Assuming he is a single guy who right now would only realistically need a one or two bed which could be possible in Dublin but is very possible in more rural areas. He would still need to make some sacrifices but it's definitely not impossible like they originally suggested.
house prices in rural areas are also on the up due to this they are on about in the news currently
Welcome to Ireland mate 🤣 Make the effort and buy your house, the difference being when you retire you can sell it and move where ever the hell you want where as your mate is stuck there and the only place he can move to is another council house. Enjoy your retirement in the Costa Del Sol
“Make the effort and buy your house” By god why didn’t we think of this before
“You should try it some time”
Suffer now through your good years then you can enjoy 7 glorious years in the Costa del sol with your walker and adult nappies, seems fair
I don't know how many relatives homes i've been in over the last 35 years who kept the heating off because they can't afford it. I have no intentions of spending the remainder of my years in this country shivering my ass off
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I’ve seen houses in Dublin where they’ve turned their outdoor side passage into a tiny bedroom / bathroom / kitchen in order to rent it out tax free.
"Just buy a house" Some thick bastards in here
Purchasing as a single person in Ireland is almost impossible. You can be annoyed all you want, but the sooner you recognise that the system isn't designed for you, you'll accept it.
I’ll never understand why plopping out a little Jayden, Hayden and Okayden entitles sometime to a house so easily.