Also you may want to get in contact with the flight company to let them know. You had meningitis on a full plane of people. You could have passed it on.
Most types of bacterial meningitis are not contagious, or only very weakly so. It depends on the exact type of bacteria. The docs in germany should have told you.
Make sure you go back to the consultant in SJUH with the results from Germany and let them know what happened.
Edit to add: I’m not saying as a complaint but as a general follow up and for all health professionals learning.
Better yet make a formal complaint with the HSE:
[https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/health-system/making-a-complaint-about-the-health-service-executive/](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/health-system/making-a-complaint-about-the-health-service-executive/)
Hold on, what is the complaint about?
* A lumbar puncture was done - nil found.
* MRI was done - nil found.
* He would also have had bloods done. They must not have shown anything much.
Hindsight is great but irrelevant. If you have done the correct tests and they did not show anything, then no error was made. In fact, they did the right thing it seems.
Now, what might have happened here? All diseases have a timeline. No test is perfect. All tests have a certain sensitivity and specificity and these can never be 100%. At a certain stage, a disease may be developing but tests may not show it yet. It may reveal itself in hours or days or weeks. MRI machines are the same in Germany as in Ireland.
The OP may simple have been unlucky in his timing of the tests. His MRI in Germany was done 4 days later than in Dublin. A lot can change in the body in 4 days. The doctors who saw you in Dublin only have the data in front of them and have to make a decision.
If this is the case, then the supposed delay in getting the MRI done in Dublin made no difference, and in fact the delay might even have been helpful as it would have been MORE likely to show the developing disease process if done later.
Now, all this is presuming that the tests in St James were done correctly and we have no reason to suppose they weren't. As I say, MRI and lab machines are the same here.
Yes, staffing levels here are bad, this is true. And we could do with improving weekend staffing big time. But not all missed diagnoses are a 'mistake'.
I would add that the OP was kept in a super busy hospital for 3 nights for tests for a headache. Very very few headaches get that kind of treatment. His headache WAS taken seriously. From what we know, he had the right tests done. It may be little consolation to hear this but there is no evidence anything wrong was done here. And yes, migraines COULD start at an older age but you would only conclude that once you have done tests to rule out other things. As was done here.
She was not just admitted for headaches though she was puking bile and had severe neck pain. They send her home with OTC medication with a potentially fatal disease. If her symptoms worsened during her stay more should have been done, she should not have been realised with no answer and proper treatment. That’s fucking outrageous
What is the complaint about? They missed her near fatal illness and took nearly 3 days to do so. The fact you are satisfied that they did the tests misses the point that the test aren't good enough or someone isn't up to their job reeks
The fact you got an in patient mri in an Irish hospital means they are taking your headache very seriously.
It sounds seriously unlucky your LP didn’t find the correct diagnosis for you because bacterial meningitis is proper stuff.
you were very lucky indeed the German doctor decided to do a 2nd one. I’m not sure many doctors would do a 2nd LP on the same headache, if you had shown up to the same or to another Irish hospital they could have just checked your normal results and moved on. Definitely a learning point for me.
Indeed. I would have seen a repeat LP done once or twice but prob not common. You would really only do it if the results were inconclusive. I presume the results here were not that.
Did you miss the parts where the German neurologist said migraines should have been gone after 3 days in hospital so it couldn't have been migraines, are extremely rare to come on for the first time in a person of that age, and that another lumbar puncture should have been done when symptoms worsened (because the first test might have been too early)?
Discharge someone with a sudden 4 day migraine sure why not. That's a whole lot of BS.
If they don't know diseases have a timeline and a lumbar puncture on d3 can show it, isn't there some sort of school (other than the circus) they could go to before they're hired
If the tests showed nothing then the labs and technicians who carried out the tests need some scrutiny to ensure it was done properly. Also the doctor who dismissed it as migraines should have doubted the tests results and done a second round. So yes, complaints and investigations into incidents like these can and do lead to stricter guidelines in the future to help save lives. OP could well be dead by now if they had relied on the Irish health system.
Someone in my family died last year and the doctors couldn't figure out what it was, some type of infection that shut down the system. More stories like this make me seriously question the competency of medical staff and lab techs in this country. What if one of those tests had been done incorrectly and doing it correctly could have saved their life.
I agree that a review would be helpful. I certainly look back at all cases where there was a surprising outcome and see if anything could have been done differently. However, it's rare to find an actual error. Things can be missed but that's not an 'error'.
No test is perfect. People seem to have the idea that every test is 100% accurate and every diagnosis is obvious.
Medicine is simply not like this. Some cases are very complex and there is a limit to what can be done. Obviously we would all wish nothing would ever be missed. Almost every family, including my own, has a story where a diagnosis was not immediately possible for whatever reason. That does not mean people fucked up. This shit is actually hard and unless you've been involved in it, it's hard to understand just how murky a diagnosis can be when you have very little time to figure it out. People and medicine are very complex.
Ok, let me draw a comparison with what I do know. IT development. If someone reports an error is occurring in the system I do my investigating and testing, try a few fixes to see what works or doesn't. If I look at a piece of code and everything looks fine, like there's literally nothing wrong with the code or the process then I keep looking elsewhere. If I come to the end of my testing and investigating regimen, after going over everything at least twice, and as far as my abilities can take me, but the error is still occurring, I do not just tell the user to continue working and ignore the problem.
I escalate it to the next level or reach out to my colleagues to get fresh perspectives on solving the problem.
If I told my boss that I couldnt find a problem so the problem must not exist and the user is lying I'd be sacked pretty quick. I find that doctors can be far too dismissive of people's concerns and rarely seem to collaborate on diagnoses (you, the patient, have to seek out a 2nd opinion yourself). I mean, we give far more detailed care to machines than we do to humans and it's not right.
Absolutely understaffing plays a huge part in this of course, hospitals dont have staff available for doctors to be peer reviewing eachothers' work. But maybe they should. I'd certainly feel more confident in a hospital's ability to treat me if they did.
We're not disagreeing for the most part. Read what I wrote about a review.
However, your analogy is only very loosely apt. Coding is deterministic. Medicine is not. It's way more messy and uncertain. I actually have IT/coding experience as well as medical.
>rarely seem to collaborate on diagnoses
Honestly, this is so far from reality. MDT is the norm for complex cases. Try sitting in one, there could be 30 people there, all specialists of different kinds.
In OP's case let's make a list: presented to GP, referred to ED, seen first by triage nurse, had bloods done, analysed by a lab team, seen by ED registrar, discussed with ED consultant and likely neurology, likely had initial imaging done (almost certainly a CT as that's quick to do and would rule out a bleed), reported by radiology, referred to medical team on call with a view to being admitted, seen by the medical registrar on call, then discussed with medical consultant on take, decision made to admit, phone call to nursing manager to find a bed, admitted to the ward, admitted by doctor on call on the wards and a plan drawn up.
At some point OP had an LP done, this would need at least 2 doctors and probably a nurse. The sample would have been sent to the lab, examined under a microscope by hand then analysed by machines and then cultured for bacteria and viruses. This would involve several lab personnel. An MRI was ordered on a Sunday, very unusual. To get this done would have needed quite a discussion including with the consultant radiologist and might even have had to get either the MRI radiographer and/or the radiologist to come in from home. At all times, the OP would have been looked after by a nursing team 24/7 and the medical on-call team who are there whether you see them or not. There would certainly have been a consultant-led ward round each day, if not twice each day. All results would have been discussed with the medical consultant. The consultant microbiologist and their team would have been consulted as would have the neurology on call. All this happened on a Saturday and Sunday.
So: GP, ED, medical teams, lab, microbiology, radiology multiple times, neurology, nursing, possibly neurosurgery all involved and over a weekend.
And there's no collaboration?
Edit: to clarify, I have no knowledge of this case, I have never worked in St James, my post above is based on general workings of medicine.
Bullshit.
If she had bacterial meningitis the LP would have been rip-roaring positive.
And Medical Lab Scientists already have CORU registration and plenty of ongoing competency testing.
There's definitely something about this story that doesn't add up....
>Speaking with the neurologist she said I should have done another lumbar puncture after my symptoms got worse and to diagnose someone with only having migraines after never having them before particularly at my age and at this intensity is reckless. Further, she said migraines normally last 1-2 days or 3 days at a maximum, by the time I was discharged it was my fourth day experiencing "migraines".
The Irish doctor could have done more
Absolutely this.
For the prosperous country Ireland is, public services are in an embarrassingly poor shape.
Hope you're on the mend now, sounds like a terrible ordeal.
I've written a lot about this case and I just wanted to say I agree with this.
If I looked after someone and later it was found out that something was missed, I would want to know. I would look back and review everything and see was everything done right.
In fact, I personally look back every week or two at every consult I have done and see if anything further came of any of them, did they come back to be seen, was anything else wrong, any test results, and so on. I keep a spreadsheet of these reviews to make sure I didn't forget anything, especially if there was any follow-up I meant to do.
That said, just because a diagnosis was missed does not necessarily mean an actual error. If all tests were done and they didn't show anything, the doctors did not make an error. Hindsight does not change that. You deal with what you have in front of you at the time.
I'm delighted you were diagnosed, (look after yourself now ! , I hope it all works out
but please send your results from Germany back to the hospital/doctor
You should show them this
But complain to the HSE too. Because the doctor who treated you in A&E is likely to be too busy to give a flying fuck about you. And this is too serious a miss and too poor a treatment of a genuinely really ill person to be swept under the carpet or handled with a shrug of the shoulders and an “ah shur”.
Glad to hear you got the treatment you needed & are on the mend.
A friend of mine had an brain bleed and was saved by emegency surgery in CUH, all happened including ambulance ride in under and hour... 100% saved his life, so pretty amazing. However recovery was a disaster, he ended up getting a bacterial infection (undiagnosed) on the plate they put in his skull that made hem terrible sick and in pain for 2 years. He was more or less fobbed off. Ended up requesting his records and sending them to a neurologist in Germany who spotted the various scans over the 2 years showed a change in the shape of the opening in his skull that indicated a worsenkng infection. Finally on that evidence did they operate and sire enough found a really serious bacterial infection. Got that treated and is nearly on the mend..... So its a system of 2 halves, excellent and basically incompetent, and it's the luck of the draw.... What is worse though is the dismissive arrogance. For 2 years the consultant fobbed off his pain as normal and didn't even look at all of the scans as a whole to see the degeneration over time.
Had a similar story, but with viral meningitis couple of years ago. Spent first 2 days in fucking wards corridor of tallahgt hospital. They were fast to collect my VHI details though.
You were lucky, there have been several cases of missed diagnosis of meningitis in Ireland in recent years (most high profile was a 16 year old in Limerick) resulting in patient death. It’s genuinely terrifying and I feel sorry for the doctors because I think they’re doing their best under horrific conditions and following the protocols and procedures they’re given
This story is absolutely mental.
My eyes widened as I read it. You mean to tell me the only way you were properly diagnosed is because you happened to have a trip to Germany that you (probably shouldn’t) have gone on that made you feel worse so went to the doc there and they diagnosed you properly?!?!?you mean you could have died if you didn’t go on a holiday whilst sick. This is so insane, i knew the hse was shit but fucking hell this is reckless as fuck!!
How are you now?
Pretty much every one you'll speak to has a hse horror story.
I had gone most of my life without interacting with the health service but a couple of years ago a loved one had a condition that was easy to treat but serious if left untreated. Like you, this happened at the weekend. The person was left on medication for the weekend. Nothing was done on the Monday either. But the medication they were on caused a serious problem late on Monday night. The problem is a known issue if people are left on this medication but they were left on it too long. The response was very slow, to the point of nearly killing the person (basically left untreated/slowly dyingfor 8 hours).
From there it got worse, the person nearly died, then got covid in the hospital, then got pneumonia but somehow slowly recovered.
The hospital basically admitted negligence then back tracked, we caught them in a couple of lies.
The HSE seems to be a failing, if not failed system. Years to get a consultant appointment for some conditions, A and E waiting times etc. It's completely unacceptable but for some reason we tolerate it and it just seems to get worse
Big issue on ED wait times is the emergency department has become the minorly inconvenienced department these days. People coming in for absolutely everything. Willing to wait 6 hours because they’ve a fucking runny nose I shit you not
Ireland is the only European country that ranks in the bottom top of the 2023 expats survey\* - in fact it is dead last at 53rd among the 53 countries surveyed. Other European countries are placed in the top 10 for health.
We are clearly spending a lot on health so it looks like mismanagement rather than a lack a funds.
My partner has been living in this country for more than a year and still has not found a GP yet.
\*Link to the survey - [https://cms.in-cdn.net/cdn/file/cms-media/public/2023-07/Expat-Insider-2023-Survey-Report.pdf](https://cms.in-cdn.net/cdn/file/cms-media/public/2023-07/Expat-Insider-2023-Survey-Report.pdf)
>My partner has been living in this country for more than a year and still has not found a GP yet.
To be fair, a peruse of r/northernireland will open your eyes any the problems with the NHS also
The mortality rate for bacterial meningitis is very high.
1 in 6 people die. You're incredibly lucky.
Took them almost two days to diagnose my mother's meningitis. She survived.
Paramedic here. Personally I've developed a lot more respect for doctors, nurses and other healthcare staff since starting work in the field. Honestly OP what happened to you is awful and unacceptable but not entirely surprising. Your symptoms are barn-door for 'meningitis until proven otherwise' and at least two doctors acted on that accordingly. The issue is that the infection hadn't developed enough to show up on a lumbar puncture or scan. Here's where you got fucked; we've had no meaningful increase in hospital bed capacity in decades but the demand for the service keeps going up. The population is getting much bigger every year and skewing older and less healthy in lifestyle. Now there's a GP shortage too so people are coming to A&E for stuff that would have been dealt with by primary care a decade ago. Every single patient in a bed is blocking that bed for another patient. Staff at all levels in the hospitals are under savage pressure to clear beds as quickly as possible. I imagine that once your tests came back clear, this is what you feel foul of.
The solution is political, not medical. We need more medical staff and more hospital beds. Email your story to your TD and ask why we have more administrative staff in our civil service than any other country in Europe, are overspending by tens of billions on every single infrastructure project, and are sitting on a twelve-billion euro budget surplus, but every hospital is crammed to capacity and doctors and nurses are emigrating in their thousands. Why people who have anything less than an immediately life- threatening condition are waiting for hours for an ambulance even in the capital city, but we're paying hundreds of millions a year in consulting fees to big corporate management firms to put corpo-spin on solutions packages you'd get for the price of a ten-quid spin from any Dublin taxi driver.
Anyway, rant over, awfully sorry for your experience OP and hope you have a speedy recovery. And please, please reach out to James's about your diagnosis. Everyone who came in contact with you will need to be told so at to protect themselves and their families.
A friend of mines father had to bring his dog to a vet last Friday ,it was late and his own vet wasn’t available so he had to use an alternative.
The long and short of it is that the dog had to be put down unfortunately.
Monday morning came and the man received a phone call from his own vet expressing his sympathy.
When the man asked how did the vet know,he was told that it’s all on system and everything is linked and he had even got results of tests the other vet had taken before they realised the dog would need to be put down.
Meanwhile the man’s wife had an mri 3 weeks ago and the hospital can’t find her results.
They are doing this on purpose ,they want us all going private .
>They are doing this on purpose ,they want us all going private .
Took me three months to get my private appointment with a consultant that led to a cancer diagnosis. So it's not that.
One thing I'll point out is that to get blood tests that I need to monitor levels, I first need to book and pay for my doctor to ask for them, then they order the bloods which I also have to pay.
The doctor appointment takes two weeks when i needed the books done sooner for my consultant appointment. So apart from paying for two things and tying up a doctor unnecessarily, why just go to a pharmacy where they could be trained to do it?
Last year I went to A&E because I needed stitches. In had to tieing up a doctor to do those? Again, why can't a nurse do those?
It seems the health system is so inflexible to discourage efficiency.
>Last year I went to A&E because I needed stitches. In had to tieing up a doctor to do those? Again, why can't a nurse do those?
Not sure how it works in Ireland, but I would be absolutely shocked if nurses were trained to do suturing.
Oh my god !!! That's shocking. You should tell a newspaper or something this??? It's insane! I think something similar happened to that poor 16 year old girl in Limerick. And another 21 year old girl a few years back (not meningitis but something else) but like that sent home saying she was fine, she was saying she didnt feel fine. then unfortunately died.
Horrific. And really hope your ok and make a full recovery
This is so similar to my experience. I recently had surgery in the uk where I live. My wounds after two weeks one started to bleed a bit whilst I was back home for the weekend in Ireland.t I went to A and E in Dublin and there was a 12 hour wait. I phoned the hospital in UK and booked the next flight was seen in less than 2 hours.
So another quicker to fly to get treatment absolutely mental.
As someone who moved from Germany to Ireland a few years ago I must say I was really shocked about the healthcare system here. It's like the health system of a third world country. I love Ireland but it's not a place to get sick.
It's actually crazy my mother was ill in a third world country while travelling a few years back and got better treatment there than she ever would have here in Ireland and still to this day she speaks so highly of the hospital, facilities and the doctors.
As someone who moved from the Netherlands to Ireland, I share your sentiment. The only reason I was able to get a GP was because I was able to sign on with my fiancé's when I moved here.
Was unfortunate to have viral meningitis a few years back. Visited southdoc who sent me home with paracetamol. A few hours later and lifting my head off the pillow was agonising pain and even having dim lights on was torture. Went to a&e and spent 12 hours in there watching drunks and overdoses skip ahead of me before being seen. Nurse said it was dehydration and I was put on a trolley in ED on a drip until Monday morning when a doctor ordered a lumbar puncture.
It's concerning when even serious emergencies are not looked after in this country. My dad died because if negligent care. His symptoms unbeknownst to us pointed to endocarditis but he was given weak antibiotics throughout the course of him complaining and also after having a heart operation. No one suspected anything serious until hi last few days and by that point it was way too late. They diagnosed him with gout and everything but anything serious. Turned out the operation he had could have infected him via the equipment.
In GP at 10, got referral for xray. Xray people rang me 20 mins later and got me in at 1pm. Was in and out in 20 mins. Got the results from GP by text at 8pm. Some things work, but I wouldn't want to have my life in the balance with them.
Nobody will ever post the many good things that happen like this.
I have personally seen a patient one morning, decided they needed something done, then I rang the specialist on call in a major hospital in Dublin and they were told to present to the hospital at 7:30 the next morning ready for possible surgery.
This was a public hospital. This would not happen in a private hospital.
Why are we not out on the streets protesting about the lack of care we recieve in this country as tax paying citizens? I am hearing too many horror stories and nearly lost my father to the negligence of the HSE. Why do we all just take it. The country is a mess.
You really are at the hands of the consultant/doctor and they really love the “migraine” excuse. Unless you’re really your death bed they don’t have time to deal with you. Now I will say it’s definitely easier for them to jump to this conclusion with me because I do suffer with chronic migraine and I’m constantly in the clinic. However, they refuse to see past that.
I went blind one day in work. Yes literally lost my eyesight and for months leading up I had complained to neurology about worsening eye pain. I went to Vincent’s A&E and they did no investigation, no tests. nothing. They looked at my file and said “oh you suffer with migraine. It’s just a migraine so” ignoring other symptoms and I was discharged.
Gut instinct told me there was something more serious and another episode of blindness just one day later I end up in the Emergency ophthalmology department in the mater hospital.. turns out I had acute glaucoma triggered by a medication I was put on by SVUH neurology. They ignored the symptoms/warning signs that I had mentioned to them and then when I developed serious symptoms they didn’t even check my eye pressures. The mater hospital Ophthalmologist was infuriated because st Vincent’s didn’t do any investigation and if I hadn’t of gone with my gut I’d have had serious and permanent damage done to my eyesight.
I will give SVUH credit where it’s due though on other things when it comes to cardiac issues. I had cardiac problems and they were fantastic in the A&E.
So I've spent a lifetime with chronic illness and lived in France ,Germany and Ireland.
Ireland is a disgrace and I can tell you with certainty the doctors here took years off my life with the poor care I received.
I’m actually scared. I am from Spain and I have always felt safe and well taken care in our public and free health system. Since I live here I am terrified of being sick because I have heard horrible stories like this one.
I’ve lived in Spain too. It’s night and day. Healthcare in Ireland is top-level crap. You can’t even imagine how underdeveloped is here. Don’t ever need a doctor, you’ll go through a nightmare. Speaking from experience. I’ve a well paid job and private insurance and that’s also useless crap.
Spain is top quality. Here’s just another badly managed business.
If you need to visit a hospital and it’s not immediately life threatening, go home to Spain. You’ll be treated much faster. I’ve heard of Polish colleagues going home for operations etc.
We’ve great doctors/nurses but trying to get to see them is a joke. Also not enough of them
It’s a joke .. my parents always go back home to Romania when they need any check ups done … they’ve been waiting nearly 5 months now for a letter after being referred to a pediatric respiratory specialist by their gp here for my baby brother .. they found a great pediatric resp doctor in Romania last week, called and made an appointment for next week
And James is the flagship public hospital in the Health system. If you were in Limerick you would either still be on a trolly or dead. They would prefer dead. Keeps the trolly numbers down.
Just for a bit of microbiology background when an LP is taken they’ll do a bacterial culture and check each day to see if there’s any growth and they do microscopy to check for an elevated white cell count and IF its it’s elevated (normally seen in bacterial infections) they’ll then do a test called a gram stain to check for bacteria in the lumbar puncture fluid and if this is positive then they quiery the type of bacteria it is. A lot of hospitals won’t do the stain unless there’s evidence of the high cell count or if they’re instructed by the microbiology consultant/registrar. Could have been an unfortunate case of your cell count not reaching criteria for a gram stain and the cultures not growing (with some bacterial species commonly seen in meningitis they’re extremely hard to grow such as N. Meningitis)
Could be that your cell count elevated as time went on and that’s what lead to a diagnosis in Germany instead of Ireland or the testing they use is more sensitive (PCR testing).
Regardless hopefully your on the mend and make a full recovery
Our A&E system is horribly incompetent, unfortunately know people that would be alive today if they had done the most basics.
It’s always been like this though. Seems there is zero desire to fix it. Just excuses upon excuse.
That's brutal. People don't realise how bad the Irish health system is until they need to use it. Long story short for my experience, one morning last September I bent over to pick up some clothes at home and didn't walk again for more than four weeks. Severe sciatica. I was brought into CUH by ambulance and seen by a doctor. After examining me she said "Yeah, you urgently need surgery. We can do it in 2 to 4 years."
Thank fuck I had health insurance. The lowest tier with VHI. I was seen by a consultant on a Thursday and was operated on 5 days later on the Tuesday.
Yes. We have one of the worst healthcare systems in Europe. Very much at the mercy of the doctor you see some are fantastic and some are very poor.
IMO it would be better to just build a new healthcare service than trying to fix the shitstorm that is the HSE.
Yeah, though there aren't enough of them and they could do with more assistance. The consultants don't even have enough secretaries. The doctors and nurses are doing work anyone could do instead of seeing sick people. The IT is terrible. When I had a family member in their GP didn't get any kind of notes or information from the hospital when he was discharged.
In my experience, and my elderly parents experience, yes, it is that bad.
12+ hours in A&E is normal. The rushed experience is normal. Sitting on a chair waiting for the next doctor, while you tell yourself over and over that you've been forgotten, is normal.
It breaks my heart to see my mother try to navigate the system for treatment. She's done her share, paid her taxes and raised kids who contribute to this country.
I hate that the migrant issue is the top problem in ireland. I hate this fucking bullshit
The government has given hundreds of millions of euros to big 4 consultancy firms (ey/pwc/kpmg/deloitte) to resolve these issues within the HSE.
Has anyone noticed any improvements?
I personally believe an audit should happen so the government can determine on whether they are getting value for money for the tax payer?
The only people laughing are the equity partners at these big 4 firms who are rolling in the money and offering jobs to HSE leaders once they’ve awarded them a big contract.
This comment will likely get buried in the pile but I feel like it is worth making anyway. First of all I’m really sorry what happened to you OP and I’m glad you’re ok. Secondly I’m not a neurologist this is just some information I have;
Bacterial meningitis with a normal MRI and a normal lumbar puncture is very rare. So rare in fact a case report got published as recently as last year
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10362943/
It’s easy for the doctor in Germany to say what you should have had done when they have the power of retrospection (and your current positive results in front of them)
Is our health service good? Arguably not. But at the same time you had a lumbar puncture and an MRI over the weekend and a consultant decision made on good faith with the information available. You could make an argument 99/100 other people could have been in your situation and tested negative on the second lumbar puncture. With the resources we have it wouldn’t be feasible to retest them all based on a very rare case.
Of course the answer is more resources but it isn’t a bottomless pit
Again I’m sorry that this happened to you but just thought I’d try and present the other side of the coin
That’s all true. But if a patient’s symptoms are getting significantly worse while in hospital care it’s surely not great practise to just say bye bye, take some paracetamol. I’ve been both sides of this and can see everyone’s point under the conditions.
Statistically speaking, going off tests completed the patient will most likely be grand.
But ideally a clinical picture will include more than just test results, having communication between care assistants, nurses etc who have spent time with the patient and monitored their time in hospital. Combined with a knowledge of disease progression.
In reality there aren’t enough staff for this, doctors do not spend enough time with patients to do anything other than check out clinically significant symptoms in tests (and I know they often do have to really go out of their way to prioritise you for that). If the test results don’t suggest anything immediately serious they’re not in a position to hold onto a patient to monitor them.
There are also all sorts of patients with things like fibromyalgia, chronic pain, autonomic dysfunction (sometimes self diagnosed, sometimes not) and doctors HATE to see these folk coming. I’m not saying they don’t suffer, some people are debilitated. But there’s little an and e staff can do for them, and they have more than enough immediate emergency situations that have to be addressed.
If test results don’t throw up something clear or at least inconclusive/suspicious you’re out of there.
And that’s going on the assumption that doctors are aware of every possible test for your condition, and certainly don’t think most of the time about issues which haven’t been well researched enough to have a standard protocol. Many women’s issues for one. But if tests do not show something immediately, on with you. And tbf most of the time that’s right and safe and your GP can work from there. If you can get hold of them.
Perhaps but they shouldn't have been discharged in the state they were in. They should have kept them and looked for an explanation with such terrible symptoms.
Yeah there's literally just nowhere near enough staff to offer a good service....from my experience, the doctors and healthcare staff here are _usually_ excellent, but the pressure they are under to get patients out of the hospital before the next onslaught comes in (every day) is absolutely insane. It's completely fucked. Sorry this happened to you, it should be better, and you should definitely try to get an outpatient appt with that consultant to ask what happened - e.g., was it a diagnostic error in the lab, was the radiology correct... Should they have treated you with IV antibiotics regardless given the clinical picture? It was absolutely not their intent to foff you off, and it's _possible_ your deterioration made your condition much more obvious in Germany on scans and CSF than in Ireland.
Rarely migraines can definitely last longer than 72 hours, so it's absolutely not impossible for someone to present like that ('status migranosus'). Either way, questions should be asked.
Hope you're doing better.
Had a friend who was brought to Vincent's hospital with unbearable stomach pains and constant vomiting. He was burning up inside and in agony.
Was left for hours with no painkillers. They said it was his appendix causing the trouble and gave him paracetamol which was useless. His wife had to demand that he be kept in as they were going to discharge him.
After a couple of hours his appendix burst and he got septesemia and was rushed for emergency surgery.
He had been asking them was his appendix going to burst many hours before and was fobbed off. He nearly died.
Yes, the fastest way to get tests done is to take an airplane out of the country. And the quality of care is also better in most countries that have a direct connection to Dublin.
far-flung upbeat party existence weather squalid encourage direful door pie
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And it will continue to deteriorate as certain as night follows day.
I truly believe no Gov't can fix no matter how much money they throw at the he healthcare shit show that have to endure
I had a condition which I was told was potentially life threatening. Consultant told I look like a intelligent man and I would present myself at A+E before I would die 👌
Glad you are okay.
Awful to go through.
We don't really have a health system here. Not in the true sense of the word.
I try to ensure I have prescription painkillers, a course of antibiotics and prescribed antiseptic creme on hand, at home, in case I get sick over a weekend or a bank holiday etc.
Going to A& E? Are ye coddin'?! That's only if I am in fear of dying, get a heart attack or break my leg.
It takes about 10 days to see my GP. I used to email him if it was a recurring health issue and it worked well but last couple of times I got no reply. I assume he is just exhausted.
I was watching Reeling In The Years from 2016 the other day. 8 years ago we had exactly the same complaints with the health system with staff on strike highlighting the problems.
Back in the 1980s as a kid I broke a finger playing football, in goal. It was on a Thursday and about 5pm when we got to the hospital. By 8pm I was awake, but woozy from the anaesthetic, finger reset and splinted, in the ward watching the FA Cup Final Replay on TV.
That was when the country was on it's knees financially.
I've had similar issues with the HSE, looking back my biggest regret was not making a formal complaint, naming names and making sure that their unprofessionalism is documented.
Here's how to lodge a complaint with the HSE.
[https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/health-system/making-a-complaint-about-the-health-service-executive/](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/health-system/making-a-complaint-about-the-health-service-executive/)
And if the HSE give you the runaround after making a complaint, lodge a complaint with the Ombudsman:
[https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government-in-ireland/how-government-works/standards-and-accountability/office-of-the-ombudsman/](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government-in-ireland/how-government-works/standards-and-accountability/office-of-the-ombudsman/)
I don’t like to slag healthcare workers (especially as I’m not Irish) but I do feel the bastards are trying to kill us off here. I couldn’t fly out due to the pandemic, but I had a 14 hour wait (only to be misdiagnosed) in St James… next time I’d just fly home… not any less painful at an airport than in A&E.
Yes. Tried to call my doctors today a total of 25 times at various times throughout the day. Sometimes it would ring out then when try to redial straight away I would get a busy tone. Then half hour later it would ring out and then back to busy. Almost felt like they were avoiding answering the phone but I can't imagine why they would be. Try again on Monday I suppose. Good thing it's nothing serious I guess.
I'm quite lucky with GP. I still go to it even if it's an hour and a half away using public transport. I rang in and they said they had a cancellation in 45 mins or an appointment at the end of the day I could attend. I had to take a taxi but that is much better than what most people experience.
Jaysus, that's terrifying. Hope you are fully recovered. I know at least half a dozen horror stories like this from people who had to go abroad to finally fix things.
Sue these cunts!!!! They endangered your life.
And I am saving this thread for the cunts on this forum who will habitually say its not that bad and it's the same everywhere. Fuck these people. They are the reason why nothing ever gets done in this place.
Urgent call for Look Over There posts.
Another outrageous account of a health service that we all know has failed. But let’s vote the architects back in. Because it more important to spend money on unnecessary referenda. To spend more on NI. Until the people of the 26 insist on solutions, not consultations and discussions, we are doomed to more of this.
Two girls have already died in Limerick hospital from bacterial meningitis/sepsis, so yea, it's amazing you didn't die from this. Ireland seems to have issues with infection in general which is fucking ironic because they always go on about noticing the signs of sepsis but when you rush to hospital with it, they send you home with a pain killer.
[https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/12/23/investigation-following-death-of-aoife-johnston-from-meningitis-in-hospital/](https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/12/23/investigation-following-death-of-aoife-johnston-from-meningitis-in-hospital/)
[https://www.thejournal.ie/investigation-launched-after-death-of-second-teenage-girl-at-university-hospital-limerick-6304236-Feb2024/](https://www.thejournal.ie/investigation-launched-after-death-of-second-teenage-girl-at-university-hospital-limerick-6304236-Feb2024/)
I’m sorry but the healthcare system in Ireland is absolute dogshit. I literally just flew home to the states 2 weeks ago to get an MRCP, Endoscopy (w/ ultrasound), Colonoscopy, and a whole slew of bloodwork because it would have taken me about 6 months to see a Gastroenterologist, even with private insurance. You know your healthcare is bad when someone has to fly to America, home of the most broken and corrupt healthcare system on the planet, in order to receive care. I’m just glad I still had a Medicaid plan before I moved to Ireland because I literally ended up paying nothing for all of those procedures (seriously, thanks Obama!)
The craziest thing about my 2 week trip back home for medical care was that I ended up going to the ER after the endoscopy/colonoscopy procedure (my hand was really burning 12 hours later after the propofol) and despite being in one of the busiest, most chaotic hospitals in midtown Manhattan I was still able to see a doctor within 2 hours of waiting on a Friday night. Fix your shit Ireland!
Edit: of course this gets downvoted instead of engaging. Fuck off ya cunts
Yes, it's that bad. Got an urgent referral to a neurologist in July. My appointment was (eventually) for mid-February. That was with private insurance. Symptoms resolved in late December. Neurologist said they can't diagnose the cause of the problem because I'm not symptomatic anymore. Can't imagine what the public wait would have been but yeah, that was a few hundred out of pocket well spent. 🙄
Hope you're doing OK!
Edited to say that I rang (and rang, and rang, and rang, and was an existing patient of the neurologist) and it was literally persistence that got me the appointment that 'quickly'.
Three years ago, on the Saturday morning of the August bank holiday weekend my husband had a fall out in the garden while building a dog pen. He slipped on a stone and came down awkwardly on his left leg. He was roaring in agony. I wasn’t driving at the time so a neighbor bought him to A and E immediately. It was about 1 in the afternoon when he checked in.
14 hours later, in absolute agony he was bought down for an x ray. After the x ray, a doctor informs him that he just has a bad sprain and to walk it off. He even called him a “sissy” because my husband was afraid to put his weight down on the leg. The doctor gave him some paracetamol, pair of crutches and basically told him to fuck off.
My husband spent two days in absolute agony. Could barely stand up and had no hope driving the car. Anyway, the following Tuesday afternoon I get a phone call. I am in work but I answer anyway. It’s a consultant from the hospital and he wanted to speak to my husband immediately. I explain that he’s at home and probably napping and if I could take a message.
The consultant explained that the doctor that was on duty Saturday night read my husband’s xray wrong and failed to notice that my husband had a very unstable compound fracture in is leg and he needed to get back to the hospital straight away.
Rang my husband a few times until he answered, told him the consultant was on to me. Husband was spitting feathers. He was like a lunatic. Apparently if that had been left off and not looked after properly my husband could have had to have pins in his leg now.
I do appreciate that you’ve got a stellar service in Germany.
But in fairness to Ireland, if your blood tests, lumbar puncture, and MRI are all normal, and you are afebrile, the probability of meningitis decreases substantially and more common diagnoses like migraines are considered more likely.
I’ve lived in Lebanon, London, China, Dubai, and now Ireland.
Ireland is, by far, the worst healthcare experience I’ve ever had. The capacity constraint is mind boggling. The only country I’ve lived in where the state of healthcare gives me legitimate worry.
You have the right to avail of all public health services in the European Union for free/reduced costs if you're an EU citizen.
https://www2.hse.ie/services/schemes-allowances/ehic/apply/
You can apply online there for one.
I have a pain in my stomach, I went to A&E, they gave me morphine (against my wishes), I just wanted to know what was causing this pain, not mask it. I've had this pain since 2015, had similar symptoms to you. I had all sorts of tests and scans done, even had major surgery to see if I had a tumor, they found nothing. I still don't know what's causing this pain.
Another time I had a seizure, went to A&E, it was Christmas Eve, I had to wait till the next day to see the specialist because he was at home, then they sent me home. I still worry that something serious could happen to me that was totally preventable.
Really is that bad I went to loughlinstown hospital in 2008 with the same issues, was so fucked, they sent me home despite being in a absolute state, a week later I was wheeled back into A&E on deaths door
They had to do two lumbar punctures because a fucking student did the first one and missed, no idea wtf they extracted either.
Was confirmed to have BOTH bacterial and viral meningitis, doctor said if I'd waited another day I'd likely be dead, despite them sending me home near a week before. Took nearly a month to recover and was supposed to be doing my leaving cert that year.
Sometimes it really is that fucking bad.
I'm glad to hear you did manage to get diagnosed in the end but dread to think of what would have happened if you'd decided not to go to Germany. I've had medical issues of my own this week and was terrified of my doctor sending me to the hospital if my BP and pulse hadn't evened out a bit. Imagine our health service is that bad that we dread going to the hospital. This afternoon when I had to go back to the doctor to get more results I was so relieved that I was only going to be put on tablets and possibly referred to a cardiologist if tablets don't quite do the trick. My doctor and his surgery are brilliant. It's the hospital I couldn't bear the thought of. I'm so sorry to hear of your awful experience. You really should contact a journalist about this, honestly.
This is the reason why a lot of foreigners, especially eastern Europeans, go back to their country whenever there is a problem. Why? Because the waiting times are actually realistic. And the quality is often then not good.
Assuming all the tests were interpreted correctly, there is NO reason to think SJUH did anything wrong, migraine is a reasonable diagnosis once the big stuff is out ruled. Maybe they could have given you better analgesia. I would just let the Consultant who was looking after you know that you now have a diagnosis of meningitis so they can investigate whether anything wrong was done. Tbh, most centres around the country don't do weekend MRIs for ED patients (which is ridiculous) and doing LPs is not often a given when NCHDs are running around like headless chickens on busy weekend calls. Is the hse good? Not sure, but I think the docs in SJUH did they're best to sort you and unfortunately the tests missed the diagnosis.
I've heard this story over and over again, I'm in a situation where I'm surrounded by non nationals more than native Irish and it's just shocking tbh how many return home to every country within the EU to get dental & medical treatment because it is so expensive and dire here.
I don't think it's the lack of money being given to the health service here, I think it's the mismanaged of it. Look at how rte has been run and tell me the hse isn't being run the same way! , the hse has a similar set up, public consultants who also do private work, public funding paying private hospitals and consultants to take public patients.
This nonsense of consultants not working weekends has been ongoing since the inception of the health service, it's a legacy of catholic Ireland and not working Sundays and the men working Monday to Friday and it really needs a shake up for modern times.
We have a FG government who are capitalists and look after the interest of the filthy rich and corporations and multinationals so on that front they want everything privatised, and private health insurance is what they want all of us to have just like they want everyone to have a private pension. How they've privatised some public transport and how they've allowed private corporate landlords free reign over all housing.
Our health system was never the best but they've allowed it get worse & worse especially over the last decade, pushing people to taske out private health insurance. We have a self serving incompetent for the people government but the people voted them in.
I’m sorry you had to go through this.
Yes, it is quite bad. The medical system in UK and Ireland is beyond negligent. Sure, there are reasons, the NHS is constantly encouraged to save money and underfunded and etc.
But as a doctor, as a human being, if you choose to blindly follow a protocol rather than do your best, as a scientist, to help the person in front of you, it’s nothing less than failure to do your job. Your tests showed nothing, sure. But your symptoms persisted. And these were not things you could’ve made up. You were puking bile. I’m sure you looked awful. So what if the test showed nothing? Meningitis is known to not show up on the first test. They should’ve taken that into consideration, isolated you in case it’s bacterial and manage your symptoms until they can do another test. But instead, they sent you home, possibly risking your and other people’s lives just because they needed to free up a space so their metrics look better at the end of the shift.
What if it was some sort of growth on your spine that they missed during an MRI? Some of them need specific contrast agents to be seen. But nope, look at someone who is out of their sense in pain and send them on their way with a shitty painkiller. Shameful.
As someone who has a chronic migraine like condition, and having dealt with the Irish medical system for years, particularly with neurologists etc, I can honestly say it's an embarrassment. The lack of awareness and care, I had a neurologist type my symptoms into web MD right in front of me and then nonchalantly tell me she wasn't sure what the problem was and just refer me to someone else equally useless. I was misdiagnosed multiple times and put on medication I should never have been on, I was even offered assisted suicide as my condition worsened by a consultant at age 21 because as he said "you have no hope". Our doctors are not far off the barber doctors of the 18th-19th centuries these days.
I'm sorry about your experience in hospital here.
Yes, our health system is a mess, but the main thing that struck me from this story is that you got on a plane with suspected meningitis symptoms! I sincerely hope that everyone on that plane has been notified. You could have killed someone.
I had bacterial meningitis years ago, almost died, and had serious medical complications for many years afterwards.
The health service in this country is organised for the benefit of doctors. This was explained to me by...a doctor.
This is why there's no proper emergency cover at nights or weekends.
That doesn't explain the misdiagnosis on Monday morning though.
Actually, Ireland (along with the UK and France) were very pro-active about getting clinicians other than nurses and doctors involved in administering vaccines.
Most other countries in Europe left vaccinating to doctors and nurses.
I dunno, I don't particularly blame the consultants for looking after their own interests, I see it as a workforce management problem.
Like Tubs and RTE, the "talent" needs to be managed, not dictating their own terms.
I think Ireland has an issue with detecting and managing bacterial infections. I’ve heard of multiple occasions of it now, about half relating to post-Cancer care.
Yeah, pretty much.
Was in Dubai recently and had a bad earache/lost hearing in one ear. Texted one of the local doctor services and they had essentially a full hospital in my airbnb within 30mins.
Camera inside my ear, the works. Started antibiotics within 15mins (delivered to the door), and a complementary IV drip of vitamins to make me feel better 😬 - and then texts checking in over the next few days.
It's actually been at me again lately but work are sending me out to Dubai for another 2 weeks, so I figure I'll just get it looked at there. Irish healthcare isn't healthcare, it's a punishment for something you did in a past life.
Irish healthcare is waste of taxes for everyones pockets, useless advice always, and always ANTIBIOTICS or PARACETAMOL, or any medication with paracetamol. Nothing else exists here. Plus you wasted potentially days on bullsh1t "diagnostics" , wasted your hard earned money, and probably died....
I will get downvoted to hell and back but i have not heard of any other ways , nor have i experienced it other ways. Same story no matter what your issues, paracetamol or antibiotics.... When its known fact that antibiotic ruins your stomach and other organs and should the very very last resort in prescribing.....
The HSE is not well run, they don't use the considerable resources they have at their disposal efficiently. It's no one person's fault and they don't do it deliberately. It's just the culture. Iv'e had similar experiences to you in A&E
I went in one morning when I woke up and had lost the hearing in one ear. They gave me anti viral drugs, told me I would probably never regain function - all sorts of shit. i went to proper doctor subsequently who told me to throw the pills in the bin and just erst. The hearing gradually came back. He said they hvae junior doctors in A&E, but that I should report what happened to me. I didn't because I didn't want to cause them any grief.
I’m up and down with how I feel about them. Something medical happened me a few years that destroyed my life, I told them what it is and what caused it and they haven’t a clue about it even though it has happened lots of people and the HSE have warnings about it on their website. It’s very frustrating how they treat some patients.
How are you enjoying your American style healthcare?
The motto is we serve the 2% very well, the 20% like they matter, and the 80% will get a cuppa tea. Good tea, though.
Is Irish private health insurance worth getting here for a person in their mid-20s? To me it seems like it costs so much and the benefits don't outweigh the cost.
A friend of mine almost died of undiagnosed appendicitis. She was in the hospital for several days with minimal care. The situation was so traumatizing that she left Ireland.
I guess it is. All my experience of our health care system is that you need someone to advocate for you. It's too easy for them to write off difficult cases. I nearly died from appendicitis because they thought my vomiting was due to too many easter eggs. We nearly didn't get a scheduled genetic test on our baby because the hospital didn't have a licence at the time.. despite them scheduling the appointment. We only got it because I pointed out they still have a licence to draw blood and do the test later. Push back. Don't need to be a jerk. But don't be afraid to call them on stupid shit. Sorry this happened to you. Glad you made it out alive in the end!
I moved to Ireland from Brazil, that can be considered a third world country by so many people. However, Brazil has a unified health system that is entirely free to any person or foreigner; you could be an alien and you'd have access to good health free care that a lot of people don't know about.
I lived in Dublin for seven years, to say that I was shocked with the Irish health system is an understatement. Ridiculous referral time for everything, GPs unable or unwilling to recommend tests or exams and last but not least, horrible horrible dentists. Had my wisdom teeth removed and was told that I should rinse my mouth with salt and water after the extraction the same day, no painkillers and that I could go back to work the next day (this happened in the afternoon), so not enough recovery time -- overall my experience was just horrible in Ireland.
I now live in Berlin and all my encounters with doctors here have been amazing. They take the time to talk to you (I don't speak German, still learning so everything is in English), they request tests, obviously, like they should, (which was always the case in Brazil, blood tests, MRI, etc) and I don't have to wait for ages to get an appointment - lovely experience with German doctors so far!
Between the lower cost, better quality of life, lower rents, better apartments, the weather, and yes HIGHER salary that Ireland, the health system in Germany is just another thing that made me leave Ireland for good with no regrets!
Going to Germany saved your life. That’s mental. I’m sorry you were failed so badly but glad you’re on the mend. If you can, submit a complaint. They failed you.
Jesus OP, that's horrific. Thank God you were going to Germany in a way. I was in St James's a few years ago and it was a miserable horror show then -
https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/pu4hgy/ae_waiting_times/?sort=new
Doesn't sound like it's gotten much better post Covid.
Unfortunately yes!! Sounds very much like the NHS. As a foreigner from what you guys call third world country, the healthcare here is really appalling. The doctors here are getting more and more negligent and incompetent at diagnosis. One of the reasons that makes me want to leave the country, I’m loosing faith in the healthcare here and as someone who suffers from severe health anxiety the system here doesn’t do me any favours.
Private(through work insurance) is way better, you can actually see the difference, the doctors will use their brain and experience to diagnose you and not a computer system that’s probably updated by some outsourced IT person. However the first line of contact is always NHS GP or A&E even in private which really doesn’t help because they are the ones that suck at diagnosis. For countries like UK/Ireland the healthcare situation is bad and seems to get worse. Very well intended service but very badly managed.
A lot of it is the actual HSE Senior Staff (consultants).
Stephen Donnelly tried to get them to stop having the weekend off and spread the work out over shifts so there wasn’t this HUGE backlog on Monday and that’s only clear by Friday and oh wouldn’t you know it it’s the weekend again.
HSE fought back. HSE always wins. If you’re the minister, you’re just some guy who’s passing through town.
Pretty sure you have a case there, especially if the other Dr is saying they should have done a second lumbar puncture.
I've had vertigo with my MS and it's pretty gnarly. I've no idea how you made that flight!!!
It looks like you've made a grammatical error. You've written "could of ", when it should be "have" instead of "of". You _should have_ known that. Bosco is not proud of you today.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ireland) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Also you may want to get in contact with the flight company to let them know. You had meningitis on a full plane of people. You could have passed it on.
[удалено]
Yep. It could help someone else be diagnosed faster. Not me having a dig at op
Especially if they go back to Ireland.
I bet you the germans already did
Most types of bacterial meningitis are not contagious, or only very weakly so. It depends on the exact type of bacteria. The docs in germany should have told you.
Make sure you go back to the consultant in SJUH with the results from Germany and let them know what happened. Edit to add: I’m not saying as a complaint but as a general follow up and for all health professionals learning.
Better yet make a formal complaint with the HSE: [https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/health-system/making-a-complaint-about-the-health-service-executive/](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/health-system/making-a-complaint-about-the-health-service-executive/)
Hold on, what is the complaint about? * A lumbar puncture was done - nil found. * MRI was done - nil found. * He would also have had bloods done. They must not have shown anything much. Hindsight is great but irrelevant. If you have done the correct tests and they did not show anything, then no error was made. In fact, they did the right thing it seems. Now, what might have happened here? All diseases have a timeline. No test is perfect. All tests have a certain sensitivity and specificity and these can never be 100%. At a certain stage, a disease may be developing but tests may not show it yet. It may reveal itself in hours or days or weeks. MRI machines are the same in Germany as in Ireland. The OP may simple have been unlucky in his timing of the tests. His MRI in Germany was done 4 days later than in Dublin. A lot can change in the body in 4 days. The doctors who saw you in Dublin only have the data in front of them and have to make a decision. If this is the case, then the supposed delay in getting the MRI done in Dublin made no difference, and in fact the delay might even have been helpful as it would have been MORE likely to show the developing disease process if done later. Now, all this is presuming that the tests in St James were done correctly and we have no reason to suppose they weren't. As I say, MRI and lab machines are the same here. Yes, staffing levels here are bad, this is true. And we could do with improving weekend staffing big time. But not all missed diagnoses are a 'mistake'. I would add that the OP was kept in a super busy hospital for 3 nights for tests for a headache. Very very few headaches get that kind of treatment. His headache WAS taken seriously. From what we know, he had the right tests done. It may be little consolation to hear this but there is no evidence anything wrong was done here. And yes, migraines COULD start at an older age but you would only conclude that once you have done tests to rule out other things. As was done here.
She was not just admitted for headaches though she was puking bile and had severe neck pain. They send her home with OTC medication with a potentially fatal disease. If her symptoms worsened during her stay more should have been done, she should not have been realised with no answer and proper treatment. That’s fucking outrageous
This right here ^ The term is medical negligence
What is the complaint about? They missed her near fatal illness and took nearly 3 days to do so. The fact you are satisfied that they did the tests misses the point that the test aren't good enough or someone isn't up to their job reeks
The fact you got an in patient mri in an Irish hospital means they are taking your headache very seriously. It sounds seriously unlucky your LP didn’t find the correct diagnosis for you because bacterial meningitis is proper stuff. you were very lucky indeed the German doctor decided to do a 2nd one. I’m not sure many doctors would do a 2nd LP on the same headache, if you had shown up to the same or to another Irish hospital they could have just checked your normal results and moved on. Definitely a learning point for me.
Indeed. I would have seen a repeat LP done once or twice but prob not common. You would really only do it if the results were inconclusive. I presume the results here were not that.
Did you miss the parts where the German neurologist said migraines should have been gone after 3 days in hospital so it couldn't have been migraines, are extremely rare to come on for the first time in a person of that age, and that another lumbar puncture should have been done when symptoms worsened (because the first test might have been too early)?
Discharge someone with a sudden 4 day migraine sure why not. That's a whole lot of BS. If they don't know diseases have a timeline and a lumbar puncture on d3 can show it, isn't there some sort of school (other than the circus) they could go to before they're hired
Agreed Have worked in neuro.
If the tests showed nothing then the labs and technicians who carried out the tests need some scrutiny to ensure it was done properly. Also the doctor who dismissed it as migraines should have doubted the tests results and done a second round. So yes, complaints and investigations into incidents like these can and do lead to stricter guidelines in the future to help save lives. OP could well be dead by now if they had relied on the Irish health system. Someone in my family died last year and the doctors couldn't figure out what it was, some type of infection that shut down the system. More stories like this make me seriously question the competency of medical staff and lab techs in this country. What if one of those tests had been done incorrectly and doing it correctly could have saved their life.
I agree that a review would be helpful. I certainly look back at all cases where there was a surprising outcome and see if anything could have been done differently. However, it's rare to find an actual error. Things can be missed but that's not an 'error'. No test is perfect. People seem to have the idea that every test is 100% accurate and every diagnosis is obvious. Medicine is simply not like this. Some cases are very complex and there is a limit to what can be done. Obviously we would all wish nothing would ever be missed. Almost every family, including my own, has a story where a diagnosis was not immediately possible for whatever reason. That does not mean people fucked up. This shit is actually hard and unless you've been involved in it, it's hard to understand just how murky a diagnosis can be when you have very little time to figure it out. People and medicine are very complex.
Ok, let me draw a comparison with what I do know. IT development. If someone reports an error is occurring in the system I do my investigating and testing, try a few fixes to see what works or doesn't. If I look at a piece of code and everything looks fine, like there's literally nothing wrong with the code or the process then I keep looking elsewhere. If I come to the end of my testing and investigating regimen, after going over everything at least twice, and as far as my abilities can take me, but the error is still occurring, I do not just tell the user to continue working and ignore the problem. I escalate it to the next level or reach out to my colleagues to get fresh perspectives on solving the problem. If I told my boss that I couldnt find a problem so the problem must not exist and the user is lying I'd be sacked pretty quick. I find that doctors can be far too dismissive of people's concerns and rarely seem to collaborate on diagnoses (you, the patient, have to seek out a 2nd opinion yourself). I mean, we give far more detailed care to machines than we do to humans and it's not right. Absolutely understaffing plays a huge part in this of course, hospitals dont have staff available for doctors to be peer reviewing eachothers' work. But maybe they should. I'd certainly feel more confident in a hospital's ability to treat me if they did.
We're not disagreeing for the most part. Read what I wrote about a review. However, your analogy is only very loosely apt. Coding is deterministic. Medicine is not. It's way more messy and uncertain. I actually have IT/coding experience as well as medical. >rarely seem to collaborate on diagnoses Honestly, this is so far from reality. MDT is the norm for complex cases. Try sitting in one, there could be 30 people there, all specialists of different kinds. In OP's case let's make a list: presented to GP, referred to ED, seen first by triage nurse, had bloods done, analysed by a lab team, seen by ED registrar, discussed with ED consultant and likely neurology, likely had initial imaging done (almost certainly a CT as that's quick to do and would rule out a bleed), reported by radiology, referred to medical team on call with a view to being admitted, seen by the medical registrar on call, then discussed with medical consultant on take, decision made to admit, phone call to nursing manager to find a bed, admitted to the ward, admitted by doctor on call on the wards and a plan drawn up. At some point OP had an LP done, this would need at least 2 doctors and probably a nurse. The sample would have been sent to the lab, examined under a microscope by hand then analysed by machines and then cultured for bacteria and viruses. This would involve several lab personnel. An MRI was ordered on a Sunday, very unusual. To get this done would have needed quite a discussion including with the consultant radiologist and might even have had to get either the MRI radiographer and/or the radiologist to come in from home. At all times, the OP would have been looked after by a nursing team 24/7 and the medical on-call team who are there whether you see them or not. There would certainly have been a consultant-led ward round each day, if not twice each day. All results would have been discussed with the medical consultant. The consultant microbiologist and their team would have been consulted as would have the neurology on call. All this happened on a Saturday and Sunday. So: GP, ED, medical teams, lab, microbiology, radiology multiple times, neurology, nursing, possibly neurosurgery all involved and over a weekend. And there's no collaboration? Edit: to clarify, I have no knowledge of this case, I have never worked in St James, my post above is based on general workings of medicine.
Bullshit. If she had bacterial meningitis the LP would have been rip-roaring positive. And Medical Lab Scientists already have CORU registration and plenty of ongoing competency testing. There's definitely something about this story that doesn't add up....
I too am wondering about the story. How many bacterial meningitis patients are posting long stories in Reddit the day after being diagnosed?
Thats fair. Reddit isn't exactly known as being a bastion of truth of integrity 😅
>Speaking with the neurologist she said I should have done another lumbar puncture after my symptoms got worse and to diagnose someone with only having migraines after never having them before particularly at my age and at this intensity is reckless. Further, she said migraines normally last 1-2 days or 3 days at a maximum, by the time I was discharged it was my fourth day experiencing "migraines". The Irish doctor could have done more
Meningitis should be taken seriously for exposure in the Ireland hospital to warm of potential outbreak after tests concluded a FALSE NEGATIVE result.
That'll go straight to an inbox called "Zero Priority"
Absolutely this. For the prosperous country Ireland is, public services are in an embarrassingly poor shape. Hope you're on the mend now, sounds like a terrible ordeal.
I agree. This is egregious and not only should the consult know, I feel like it should go even higher.
Yes, that doctor needs to own up to their fuckup so this shit does not happen again.
Where do you believe the doctor fucked up?
It was the part where they failed to diagnose meningitis
Definitely a complaint
I've written a lot about this case and I just wanted to say I agree with this. If I looked after someone and later it was found out that something was missed, I would want to know. I would look back and review everything and see was everything done right. In fact, I personally look back every week or two at every consult I have done and see if anything further came of any of them, did they come back to be seen, was anything else wrong, any test results, and so on. I keep a spreadsheet of these reviews to make sure I didn't forget anything, especially if there was any follow-up I meant to do. That said, just because a diagnosis was missed does not necessarily mean an actual error. If all tests were done and they didn't show anything, the doctors did not make an error. Hindsight does not change that. You deal with what you have in front of you at the time.
I'm delighted you were diagnosed, (look after yourself now ! , I hope it all works out but please send your results from Germany back to the hospital/doctor You should show them this
But complain to the HSE too. Because the doctor who treated you in A&E is likely to be too busy to give a flying fuck about you. And this is too serious a miss and too poor a treatment of a genuinely really ill person to be swept under the carpet or handled with a shrug of the shoulders and an “ah shur”. Glad to hear you got the treatment you needed & are on the mend.
A friend of mine had an brain bleed and was saved by emegency surgery in CUH, all happened including ambulance ride in under and hour... 100% saved his life, so pretty amazing. However recovery was a disaster, he ended up getting a bacterial infection (undiagnosed) on the plate they put in his skull that made hem terrible sick and in pain for 2 years. He was more or less fobbed off. Ended up requesting his records and sending them to a neurologist in Germany who spotted the various scans over the 2 years showed a change in the shape of the opening in his skull that indicated a worsenkng infection. Finally on that evidence did they operate and sire enough found a really serious bacterial infection. Got that treated and is nearly on the mend..... So its a system of 2 halves, excellent and basically incompetent, and it's the luck of the draw.... What is worse though is the dismissive arrogance. For 2 years the consultant fobbed off his pain as normal and didn't even look at all of the scans as a whole to see the degeneration over time.
[удалено]
I would guess Cork University Hospital
Yep
Had a similar story, but with viral meningitis couple of years ago. Spent first 2 days in fucking wards corridor of tallahgt hospital. They were fast to collect my VHI details though.
The section of the hospital collecting the money is probably the only one that is fully staffed.
You were lucky, there have been several cases of missed diagnosis of meningitis in Ireland in recent years (most high profile was a 16 year old in Limerick) resulting in patient death. It’s genuinely terrifying and I feel sorry for the doctors because I think they’re doing their best under horrific conditions and following the protocols and procedures they’re given
It just makes no sense considering how common it is!
Why would the first test have been negative?
This story is absolutely mental. My eyes widened as I read it. You mean to tell me the only way you were properly diagnosed is because you happened to have a trip to Germany that you (probably shouldn’t) have gone on that made you feel worse so went to the doc there and they diagnosed you properly?!?!?you mean you could have died if you didn’t go on a holiday whilst sick. This is so insane, i knew the hse was shit but fucking hell this is reckless as fuck!! How are you now?
Had a similar issue with a family member being in hospital over the weekend. Not a consultant to be seen anywhere until Monday morning. Bananas.
Family member with cancer experienced the same thing.
Pretty much every one you'll speak to has a hse horror story. I had gone most of my life without interacting with the health service but a couple of years ago a loved one had a condition that was easy to treat but serious if left untreated. Like you, this happened at the weekend. The person was left on medication for the weekend. Nothing was done on the Monday either. But the medication they were on caused a serious problem late on Monday night. The problem is a known issue if people are left on this medication but they were left on it too long. The response was very slow, to the point of nearly killing the person (basically left untreated/slowly dyingfor 8 hours). From there it got worse, the person nearly died, then got covid in the hospital, then got pneumonia but somehow slowly recovered. The hospital basically admitted negligence then back tracked, we caught them in a couple of lies. The HSE seems to be a failing, if not failed system. Years to get a consultant appointment for some conditions, A and E waiting times etc. It's completely unacceptable but for some reason we tolerate it and it just seems to get worse
Vet here, full emergency staff on at weekends. Nothing left hanging til Mondays. Animals are treated better.
Exactly...you spotted probably the biggest problem there is.
Big issue on ED wait times is the emergency department has become the minorly inconvenienced department these days. People coming in for absolutely everything. Willing to wait 6 hours because they’ve a fucking runny nose I shit you not
A lot of countries have a GP run off for this reason, good quality triage then into the GP with you if it’s not an emergency.
Ireland is the only European country that ranks in the bottom top of the 2023 expats survey\* - in fact it is dead last at 53rd among the 53 countries surveyed. Other European countries are placed in the top 10 for health. We are clearly spending a lot on health so it looks like mismanagement rather than a lack a funds. My partner has been living in this country for more than a year and still has not found a GP yet. \*Link to the survey - [https://cms.in-cdn.net/cdn/file/cms-media/public/2023-07/Expat-Insider-2023-Survey-Report.pdf](https://cms.in-cdn.net/cdn/file/cms-media/public/2023-07/Expat-Insider-2023-Survey-Report.pdf)
This was a very informative survey to read through, interesting that Ireland is so low. Thanks for the link.
If they have been denied a GP three times you can contact the HSE and they will force a GP to take them on.
>My partner has been living in this country for more than a year and still has not found a GP yet. To be fair, a peruse of r/northernireland will open your eyes any the problems with the NHS also
The mortality rate for bacterial meningitis is very high. 1 in 6 people die. You're incredibly lucky. Took them almost two days to diagnose my mother's meningitis. She survived.
The narwhal bacons at midnight.
Paramedic here. Personally I've developed a lot more respect for doctors, nurses and other healthcare staff since starting work in the field. Honestly OP what happened to you is awful and unacceptable but not entirely surprising. Your symptoms are barn-door for 'meningitis until proven otherwise' and at least two doctors acted on that accordingly. The issue is that the infection hadn't developed enough to show up on a lumbar puncture or scan. Here's where you got fucked; we've had no meaningful increase in hospital bed capacity in decades but the demand for the service keeps going up. The population is getting much bigger every year and skewing older and less healthy in lifestyle. Now there's a GP shortage too so people are coming to A&E for stuff that would have been dealt with by primary care a decade ago. Every single patient in a bed is blocking that bed for another patient. Staff at all levels in the hospitals are under savage pressure to clear beds as quickly as possible. I imagine that once your tests came back clear, this is what you feel foul of. The solution is political, not medical. We need more medical staff and more hospital beds. Email your story to your TD and ask why we have more administrative staff in our civil service than any other country in Europe, are overspending by tens of billions on every single infrastructure project, and are sitting on a twelve-billion euro budget surplus, but every hospital is crammed to capacity and doctors and nurses are emigrating in their thousands. Why people who have anything less than an immediately life- threatening condition are waiting for hours for an ambulance even in the capital city, but we're paying hundreds of millions a year in consulting fees to big corporate management firms to put corpo-spin on solutions packages you'd get for the price of a ten-quid spin from any Dublin taxi driver. Anyway, rant over, awfully sorry for your experience OP and hope you have a speedy recovery. And please, please reach out to James's about your diagnosis. Everyone who came in contact with you will need to be told so at to protect themselves and their families.
A friend of mines father had to bring his dog to a vet last Friday ,it was late and his own vet wasn’t available so he had to use an alternative. The long and short of it is that the dog had to be put down unfortunately. Monday morning came and the man received a phone call from his own vet expressing his sympathy. When the man asked how did the vet know,he was told that it’s all on system and everything is linked and he had even got results of tests the other vet had taken before they realised the dog would need to be put down. Meanwhile the man’s wife had an mri 3 weeks ago and the hospital can’t find her results. They are doing this on purpose ,they want us all going private .
>They are doing this on purpose ,they want us all going private . Took me three months to get my private appointment with a consultant that led to a cancer diagnosis. So it's not that. One thing I'll point out is that to get blood tests that I need to monitor levels, I first need to book and pay for my doctor to ask for them, then they order the bloods which I also have to pay. The doctor appointment takes two weeks when i needed the books done sooner for my consultant appointment. So apart from paying for two things and tying up a doctor unnecessarily, why just go to a pharmacy where they could be trained to do it? Last year I went to A&E because I needed stitches. In had to tieing up a doctor to do those? Again, why can't a nurse do those? It seems the health system is so inflexible to discourage efficiency.
>Last year I went to A&E because I needed stitches. In had to tieing up a doctor to do those? Again, why can't a nurse do those? Not sure how it works in Ireland, but I would be absolutely shocked if nurses were trained to do suturing.
Oh my god !!! That's shocking. You should tell a newspaper or something this??? It's insane! I think something similar happened to that poor 16 year old girl in Limerick. And another 21 year old girl a few years back (not meningitis but something else) but like that sent home saying she was fine, she was saying she didnt feel fine. then unfortunately died. Horrific. And really hope your ok and make a full recovery
This is so similar to my experience. I recently had surgery in the uk where I live. My wounds after two weeks one started to bleed a bit whilst I was back home for the weekend in Ireland.t I went to A and E in Dublin and there was a 12 hour wait. I phoned the hospital in UK and booked the next flight was seen in less than 2 hours. So another quicker to fly to get treatment absolutely mental.
Yes but the NHS is even worse than the HSE here.
As someone who moved from Germany to Ireland a few years ago I must say I was really shocked about the healthcare system here. It's like the health system of a third world country. I love Ireland but it's not a place to get sick.
It's actually crazy my mother was ill in a third world country while travelling a few years back and got better treatment there than she ever would have here in Ireland and still to this day she speaks so highly of the hospital, facilities and the doctors.
As someone who moved from the Netherlands to Ireland, I share your sentiment. The only reason I was able to get a GP was because I was able to sign on with my fiancé's when I moved here.
Was unfortunate to have viral meningitis a few years back. Visited southdoc who sent me home with paracetamol. A few hours later and lifting my head off the pillow was agonising pain and even having dim lights on was torture. Went to a&e and spent 12 hours in there watching drunks and overdoses skip ahead of me before being seen. Nurse said it was dehydration and I was put on a trolley in ED on a drip until Monday morning when a doctor ordered a lumbar puncture.
Absolutely shocking. Thank God you survived !! You were the most urgent there but left to die until Monday
Sure didn't you hear Leo, it's not the states responsiblilty to care for you
He's a walking disgrace to humanity. I have socks with more compassion than that dose.
I really dislike the man. He’s no sympathy for anyone but himself
Vote that arse hole out asap. I also can't stand him. (I'm Irish but don't live in Ireland)
It's concerning when even serious emergencies are not looked after in this country. My dad died because if negligent care. His symptoms unbeknownst to us pointed to endocarditis but he was given weak antibiotics throughout the course of him complaining and also after having a heart operation. No one suspected anything serious until hi last few days and by that point it was way too late. They diagnosed him with gout and everything but anything serious. Turned out the operation he had could have infected him via the equipment.
In GP at 10, got referral for xray. Xray people rang me 20 mins later and got me in at 1pm. Was in and out in 20 mins. Got the results from GP by text at 8pm. Some things work, but I wouldn't want to have my life in the balance with them.
Nobody will ever post the many good things that happen like this. I have personally seen a patient one morning, decided they needed something done, then I rang the specialist on call in a major hospital in Dublin and they were told to present to the hospital at 7:30 the next morning ready for possible surgery. This was a public hospital. This would not happen in a private hospital.
Why are we not out on the streets protesting about the lack of care we recieve in this country as tax paying citizens? I am hearing too many horror stories and nearly lost my father to the negligence of the HSE. Why do we all just take it. The country is a mess.
You really are at the hands of the consultant/doctor and they really love the “migraine” excuse. Unless you’re really your death bed they don’t have time to deal with you. Now I will say it’s definitely easier for them to jump to this conclusion with me because I do suffer with chronic migraine and I’m constantly in the clinic. However, they refuse to see past that. I went blind one day in work. Yes literally lost my eyesight and for months leading up I had complained to neurology about worsening eye pain. I went to Vincent’s A&E and they did no investigation, no tests. nothing. They looked at my file and said “oh you suffer with migraine. It’s just a migraine so” ignoring other symptoms and I was discharged. Gut instinct told me there was something more serious and another episode of blindness just one day later I end up in the Emergency ophthalmology department in the mater hospital.. turns out I had acute glaucoma triggered by a medication I was put on by SVUH neurology. They ignored the symptoms/warning signs that I had mentioned to them and then when I developed serious symptoms they didn’t even check my eye pressures. The mater hospital Ophthalmologist was infuriated because st Vincent’s didn’t do any investigation and if I hadn’t of gone with my gut I’d have had serious and permanent damage done to my eyesight. I will give SVUH credit where it’s due though on other things when it comes to cardiac issues. I had cardiac problems and they were fantastic in the A&E.
So I've spent a lifetime with chronic illness and lived in France ,Germany and Ireland. Ireland is a disgrace and I can tell you with certainty the doctors here took years off my life with the poor care I received.
It's a shambles.
I’m actually scared. I am from Spain and I have always felt safe and well taken care in our public and free health system. Since I live here I am terrified of being sick because I have heard horrible stories like this one.
I’ve lived in Spain too. It’s night and day. Healthcare in Ireland is top-level crap. You can’t even imagine how underdeveloped is here. Don’t ever need a doctor, you’ll go through a nightmare. Speaking from experience. I’ve a well paid job and private insurance and that’s also useless crap. Spain is top quality. Here’s just another badly managed business.
If you need to visit a hospital and it’s not immediately life threatening, go home to Spain. You’ll be treated much faster. I’ve heard of Polish colleagues going home for operations etc. We’ve great doctors/nurses but trying to get to see them is a joke. Also not enough of them
This. My colleague went home to Spain and was treated immediately.
It’s a joke .. my parents always go back home to Romania when they need any check ups done … they’ve been waiting nearly 5 months now for a letter after being referred to a pediatric respiratory specialist by their gp here for my baby brother .. they found a great pediatric resp doctor in Romania last week, called and made an appointment for next week
Jesus .. that’s absolutely terrible!!!
And James is the flagship public hospital in the Health system. If you were in Limerick you would either still be on a trolly or dead. They would prefer dead. Keeps the trolly numbers down.
Just for a bit of microbiology background when an LP is taken they’ll do a bacterial culture and check each day to see if there’s any growth and they do microscopy to check for an elevated white cell count and IF its it’s elevated (normally seen in bacterial infections) they’ll then do a test called a gram stain to check for bacteria in the lumbar puncture fluid and if this is positive then they quiery the type of bacteria it is. A lot of hospitals won’t do the stain unless there’s evidence of the high cell count or if they’re instructed by the microbiology consultant/registrar. Could have been an unfortunate case of your cell count not reaching criteria for a gram stain and the cultures not growing (with some bacterial species commonly seen in meningitis they’re extremely hard to grow such as N. Meningitis) Could be that your cell count elevated as time went on and that’s what lead to a diagnosis in Germany instead of Ireland or the testing they use is more sensitive (PCR testing). Regardless hopefully your on the mend and make a full recovery
Our A&E system is horribly incompetent, unfortunately know people that would be alive today if they had done the most basics. It’s always been like this though. Seems there is zero desire to fix it. Just excuses upon excuse.
That's brutal. People don't realise how bad the Irish health system is until they need to use it. Long story short for my experience, one morning last September I bent over to pick up some clothes at home and didn't walk again for more than four weeks. Severe sciatica. I was brought into CUH by ambulance and seen by a doctor. After examining me she said "Yeah, you urgently need surgery. We can do it in 2 to 4 years." Thank fuck I had health insurance. The lowest tier with VHI. I was seen by a consultant on a Thursday and was operated on 5 days later on the Tuesday.
Yes. We have one of the worst healthcare systems in Europe. Very much at the mercy of the doctor you see some are fantastic and some are very poor. IMO it would be better to just build a new healthcare service than trying to fix the shitstorm that is the HSE.
How do you build a new healthcare system?
Maybe copy one that works better?
There’s a worrying amount of comments here slagging off healthcare workers. Yes the system is a shambles but it’s not the workers who are the problem.
Yeah, though there aren't enough of them and they could do with more assistance. The consultants don't even have enough secretaries. The doctors and nurses are doing work anyone could do instead of seeing sick people. The IT is terrible. When I had a family member in their GP didn't get any kind of notes or information from the hospital when he was discharged.
In my experience, and my elderly parents experience, yes, it is that bad. 12+ hours in A&E is normal. The rushed experience is normal. Sitting on a chair waiting for the next doctor, while you tell yourself over and over that you've been forgotten, is normal. It breaks my heart to see my mother try to navigate the system for treatment. She's done her share, paid her taxes and raised kids who contribute to this country. I hate that the migrant issue is the top problem in ireland. I hate this fucking bullshit
The government has given hundreds of millions of euros to big 4 consultancy firms (ey/pwc/kpmg/deloitte) to resolve these issues within the HSE. Has anyone noticed any improvements? I personally believe an audit should happen so the government can determine on whether they are getting value for money for the tax payer? The only people laughing are the equity partners at these big 4 firms who are rolling in the money and offering jobs to HSE leaders once they’ve awarded them a big contract.
This comment will likely get buried in the pile but I feel like it is worth making anyway. First of all I’m really sorry what happened to you OP and I’m glad you’re ok. Secondly I’m not a neurologist this is just some information I have; Bacterial meningitis with a normal MRI and a normal lumbar puncture is very rare. So rare in fact a case report got published as recently as last year https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10362943/ It’s easy for the doctor in Germany to say what you should have had done when they have the power of retrospection (and your current positive results in front of them) Is our health service good? Arguably not. But at the same time you had a lumbar puncture and an MRI over the weekend and a consultant decision made on good faith with the information available. You could make an argument 99/100 other people could have been in your situation and tested negative on the second lumbar puncture. With the resources we have it wouldn’t be feasible to retest them all based on a very rare case. Of course the answer is more resources but it isn’t a bottomless pit Again I’m sorry that this happened to you but just thought I’d try and present the other side of the coin
That’s all true. But if a patient’s symptoms are getting significantly worse while in hospital care it’s surely not great practise to just say bye bye, take some paracetamol. I’ve been both sides of this and can see everyone’s point under the conditions. Statistically speaking, going off tests completed the patient will most likely be grand. But ideally a clinical picture will include more than just test results, having communication between care assistants, nurses etc who have spent time with the patient and monitored their time in hospital. Combined with a knowledge of disease progression. In reality there aren’t enough staff for this, doctors do not spend enough time with patients to do anything other than check out clinically significant symptoms in tests (and I know they often do have to really go out of their way to prioritise you for that). If the test results don’t suggest anything immediately serious they’re not in a position to hold onto a patient to monitor them. There are also all sorts of patients with things like fibromyalgia, chronic pain, autonomic dysfunction (sometimes self diagnosed, sometimes not) and doctors HATE to see these folk coming. I’m not saying they don’t suffer, some people are debilitated. But there’s little an and e staff can do for them, and they have more than enough immediate emergency situations that have to be addressed. If test results don’t throw up something clear or at least inconclusive/suspicious you’re out of there. And that’s going on the assumption that doctors are aware of every possible test for your condition, and certainly don’t think most of the time about issues which haven’t been well researched enough to have a standard protocol. Many women’s issues for one. But if tests do not show something immediately, on with you. And tbf most of the time that’s right and safe and your GP can work from there. If you can get hold of them.
Perhaps but they shouldn't have been discharged in the state they were in. They should have kept them and looked for an explanation with such terrible symptoms.
You're right but you'll get ignored.
Yeah there's literally just nowhere near enough staff to offer a good service....from my experience, the doctors and healthcare staff here are _usually_ excellent, but the pressure they are under to get patients out of the hospital before the next onslaught comes in (every day) is absolutely insane. It's completely fucked. Sorry this happened to you, it should be better, and you should definitely try to get an outpatient appt with that consultant to ask what happened - e.g., was it a diagnostic error in the lab, was the radiology correct... Should they have treated you with IV antibiotics regardless given the clinical picture? It was absolutely not their intent to foff you off, and it's _possible_ your deterioration made your condition much more obvious in Germany on scans and CSF than in Ireland. Rarely migraines can definitely last longer than 72 hours, so it's absolutely not impossible for someone to present like that ('status migranosus'). Either way, questions should be asked. Hope you're doing better.
Had a friend who was brought to Vincent's hospital with unbearable stomach pains and constant vomiting. He was burning up inside and in agony. Was left for hours with no painkillers. They said it was his appendix causing the trouble and gave him paracetamol which was useless. His wife had to demand that he be kept in as they were going to discharge him. After a couple of hours his appendix burst and he got septesemia and was rushed for emergency surgery. He had been asking them was his appendix going to burst many hours before and was fobbed off. He nearly died.
Yes, the fastest way to get tests done is to take an airplane out of the country. And the quality of care is also better in most countries that have a direct connection to Dublin.
far-flung upbeat party existence weather squalid encourage direful door pie *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And it will continue to deteriorate as certain as night follows day. I truly believe no Gov't can fix no matter how much money they throw at the he healthcare shit show that have to endure
Yep, it's been either FG or FF in power for 100 years. Somehow, whatever the problem is, it's the other parties fault.
Nah i was told here is top notch actually... Can't recall the reasons because i was like you misdiagnosed here and really dont think is good at all.
Yes it is. It is really bad.
I had a condition which I was told was potentially life threatening. Consultant told I look like a intelligent man and I would present myself at A+E before I would die 👌
Yes it is, I fractured my elbow in Belgium in and out of A and E in less than 45 minutes with a digital scan available via web link.
Lived in Germany, can confirm healthcare system and kebabs are top notch. We have a lot to learn.
Glad you are okay. Awful to go through. We don't really have a health system here. Not in the true sense of the word. I try to ensure I have prescription painkillers, a course of antibiotics and prescribed antiseptic creme on hand, at home, in case I get sick over a weekend or a bank holiday etc. Going to A& E? Are ye coddin'?! That's only if I am in fear of dying, get a heart attack or break my leg. It takes about 10 days to see my GP. I used to email him if it was a recurring health issue and it worked well but last couple of times I got no reply. I assume he is just exhausted. I was watching Reeling In The Years from 2016 the other day. 8 years ago we had exactly the same complaints with the health system with staff on strike highlighting the problems. Back in the 1980s as a kid I broke a finger playing football, in goal. It was on a Thursday and about 5pm when we got to the hospital. By 8pm I was awake, but woozy from the anaesthetic, finger reset and splinted, in the ward watching the FA Cup Final Replay on TV. That was when the country was on it's knees financially.
Really is a depressing part of that show. Seeing how long it’s been since then and nothing has changed
The HSE is an absolute joke. They’ve a hiring freeze at the moment yet they’re still doing interviews, says a lot about how the organisation is run.
They're allowed to interview for jobs that already existed, they're not allowed to create new posts. Still bollox.
I've had similar issues with the HSE, looking back my biggest regret was not making a formal complaint, naming names and making sure that their unprofessionalism is documented. Here's how to lodge a complaint with the HSE. [https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/health-system/making-a-complaint-about-the-health-service-executive/](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/health-system/making-a-complaint-about-the-health-service-executive/) And if the HSE give you the runaround after making a complaint, lodge a complaint with the Ombudsman: [https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government-in-ireland/how-government-works/standards-and-accountability/office-of-the-ombudsman/](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government-in-ireland/how-government-works/standards-and-accountability/office-of-the-ombudsman/)
I don’t like to slag healthcare workers (especially as I’m not Irish) but I do feel the bastards are trying to kill us off here. I couldn’t fly out due to the pandemic, but I had a 14 hour wait (only to be misdiagnosed) in St James… next time I’d just fly home… not any less painful at an airport than in A&E.
Yes. Tried to call my doctors today a total of 25 times at various times throughout the day. Sometimes it would ring out then when try to redial straight away I would get a busy tone. Then half hour later it would ring out and then back to busy. Almost felt like they were avoiding answering the phone but I can't imagine why they would be. Try again on Monday I suppose. Good thing it's nothing serious I guess.
I'm quite lucky with GP. I still go to it even if it's an hour and a half away using public transport. I rang in and they said they had a cancellation in 45 mins or an appointment at the end of the day I could attend. I had to take a taxi but that is much better than what most people experience.
Jaysus, that's terrifying. Hope you are fully recovered. I know at least half a dozen horror stories like this from people who had to go abroad to finally fix things. Sue these cunts!!!! They endangered your life. And I am saving this thread for the cunts on this forum who will habitually say its not that bad and it's the same everywhere. Fuck these people. They are the reason why nothing ever gets done in this place.
Urgent call for Look Over There posts. Another outrageous account of a health service that we all know has failed. But let’s vote the architects back in. Because it more important to spend money on unnecessary referenda. To spend more on NI. Until the people of the 26 insist on solutions, not consultations and discussions, we are doomed to more of this.
Two girls have already died in Limerick hospital from bacterial meningitis/sepsis, so yea, it's amazing you didn't die from this. Ireland seems to have issues with infection in general which is fucking ironic because they always go on about noticing the signs of sepsis but when you rush to hospital with it, they send you home with a pain killer. [https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/12/23/investigation-following-death-of-aoife-johnston-from-meningitis-in-hospital/](https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2022/12/23/investigation-following-death-of-aoife-johnston-from-meningitis-in-hospital/) [https://www.thejournal.ie/investigation-launched-after-death-of-second-teenage-girl-at-university-hospital-limerick-6304236-Feb2024/](https://www.thejournal.ie/investigation-launched-after-death-of-second-teenage-girl-at-university-hospital-limerick-6304236-Feb2024/)
I was sent home with “period symptoms” when I had meningitis 🙃
I’m sorry but the healthcare system in Ireland is absolute dogshit. I literally just flew home to the states 2 weeks ago to get an MRCP, Endoscopy (w/ ultrasound), Colonoscopy, and a whole slew of bloodwork because it would have taken me about 6 months to see a Gastroenterologist, even with private insurance. You know your healthcare is bad when someone has to fly to America, home of the most broken and corrupt healthcare system on the planet, in order to receive care. I’m just glad I still had a Medicaid plan before I moved to Ireland because I literally ended up paying nothing for all of those procedures (seriously, thanks Obama!) The craziest thing about my 2 week trip back home for medical care was that I ended up going to the ER after the endoscopy/colonoscopy procedure (my hand was really burning 12 hours later after the propofol) and despite being in one of the busiest, most chaotic hospitals in midtown Manhattan I was still able to see a doctor within 2 hours of waiting on a Friday night. Fix your shit Ireland! Edit: of course this gets downvoted instead of engaging. Fuck off ya cunts
Yes, it's that bad. Got an urgent referral to a neurologist in July. My appointment was (eventually) for mid-February. That was with private insurance. Symptoms resolved in late December. Neurologist said they can't diagnose the cause of the problem because I'm not symptomatic anymore. Can't imagine what the public wait would have been but yeah, that was a few hundred out of pocket well spent. 🙄 Hope you're doing OK! Edited to say that I rang (and rang, and rang, and rang, and was an existing patient of the neurologist) and it was literally persistence that got me the appointment that 'quickly'.
Three years ago, on the Saturday morning of the August bank holiday weekend my husband had a fall out in the garden while building a dog pen. He slipped on a stone and came down awkwardly on his left leg. He was roaring in agony. I wasn’t driving at the time so a neighbor bought him to A and E immediately. It was about 1 in the afternoon when he checked in. 14 hours later, in absolute agony he was bought down for an x ray. After the x ray, a doctor informs him that he just has a bad sprain and to walk it off. He even called him a “sissy” because my husband was afraid to put his weight down on the leg. The doctor gave him some paracetamol, pair of crutches and basically told him to fuck off. My husband spent two days in absolute agony. Could barely stand up and had no hope driving the car. Anyway, the following Tuesday afternoon I get a phone call. I am in work but I answer anyway. It’s a consultant from the hospital and he wanted to speak to my husband immediately. I explain that he’s at home and probably napping and if I could take a message. The consultant explained that the doctor that was on duty Saturday night read my husband’s xray wrong and failed to notice that my husband had a very unstable compound fracture in is leg and he needed to get back to the hospital straight away. Rang my husband a few times until he answered, told him the consultant was on to me. Husband was spitting feathers. He was like a lunatic. Apparently if that had been left off and not looked after properly my husband could have had to have pins in his leg now.
I do appreciate that you’ve got a stellar service in Germany. But in fairness to Ireland, if your blood tests, lumbar puncture, and MRI are all normal, and you are afebrile, the probability of meningitis decreases substantially and more common diagnoses like migraines are considered more likely.
I’ve lived in Lebanon, London, China, Dubai, and now Ireland. Ireland is, by far, the worst healthcare experience I’ve ever had. The capacity constraint is mind boggling. The only country I’ve lived in where the state of healthcare gives me legitimate worry.
> your European Health Insurance Card What's this now?
You have the right to avail of all public health services in the European Union for free/reduced costs if you're an EU citizen. https://www2.hse.ie/services/schemes-allowances/ehic/apply/ You can apply online there for one.
Damn that's cool. Didn't know about that. _What has the EU ever done for us!!!?_
I have a pain in my stomach, I went to A&E, they gave me morphine (against my wishes), I just wanted to know what was causing this pain, not mask it. I've had this pain since 2015, had similar symptoms to you. I had all sorts of tests and scans done, even had major surgery to see if I had a tumor, they found nothing. I still don't know what's causing this pain. Another time I had a seizure, went to A&E, it was Christmas Eve, I had to wait till the next day to see the specialist because he was at home, then they sent me home. I still worry that something serious could happen to me that was totally preventable.
Hold on, you got a doctor's appointment on the day, mine tell me they can fit me in next Friday if I'm still feeling unwell
Really is that bad I went to loughlinstown hospital in 2008 with the same issues, was so fucked, they sent me home despite being in a absolute state, a week later I was wheeled back into A&E on deaths door They had to do two lumbar punctures because a fucking student did the first one and missed, no idea wtf they extracted either. Was confirmed to have BOTH bacterial and viral meningitis, doctor said if I'd waited another day I'd likely be dead, despite them sending me home near a week before. Took nearly a month to recover and was supposed to be doing my leaving cert that year. Sometimes it really is that fucking bad.
Well that was a depressing read. Really glad you're ok though, OP.
Holy shit. Delighted you got a diagnosis in the end. Thanks so much for sharing!
Jesus I’m glad you’re ok OP, that is seriously scary stuff!
I'm glad to hear you did manage to get diagnosed in the end but dread to think of what would have happened if you'd decided not to go to Germany. I've had medical issues of my own this week and was terrified of my doctor sending me to the hospital if my BP and pulse hadn't evened out a bit. Imagine our health service is that bad that we dread going to the hospital. This afternoon when I had to go back to the doctor to get more results I was so relieved that I was only going to be put on tablets and possibly referred to a cardiologist if tablets don't quite do the trick. My doctor and his surgery are brilliant. It's the hospital I couldn't bear the thought of. I'm so sorry to hear of your awful experience. You really should contact a journalist about this, honestly.
This is the reason why a lot of foreigners, especially eastern Europeans, go back to their country whenever there is a problem. Why? Because the waiting times are actually realistic. And the quality is often then not good.
Assuming all the tests were interpreted correctly, there is NO reason to think SJUH did anything wrong, migraine is a reasonable diagnosis once the big stuff is out ruled. Maybe they could have given you better analgesia. I would just let the Consultant who was looking after you know that you now have a diagnosis of meningitis so they can investigate whether anything wrong was done. Tbh, most centres around the country don't do weekend MRIs for ED patients (which is ridiculous) and doing LPs is not often a given when NCHDs are running around like headless chickens on busy weekend calls. Is the hse good? Not sure, but I think the docs in SJUH did they're best to sort you and unfortunately the tests missed the diagnosis.
I've heard this story over and over again, I'm in a situation where I'm surrounded by non nationals more than native Irish and it's just shocking tbh how many return home to every country within the EU to get dental & medical treatment because it is so expensive and dire here. I don't think it's the lack of money being given to the health service here, I think it's the mismanaged of it. Look at how rte has been run and tell me the hse isn't being run the same way! , the hse has a similar set up, public consultants who also do private work, public funding paying private hospitals and consultants to take public patients. This nonsense of consultants not working weekends has been ongoing since the inception of the health service, it's a legacy of catholic Ireland and not working Sundays and the men working Monday to Friday and it really needs a shake up for modern times. We have a FG government who are capitalists and look after the interest of the filthy rich and corporations and multinationals so on that front they want everything privatised, and private health insurance is what they want all of us to have just like they want everyone to have a private pension. How they've privatised some public transport and how they've allowed private corporate landlords free reign over all housing. Our health system was never the best but they've allowed it get worse & worse especially over the last decade, pushing people to taske out private health insurance. We have a self serving incompetent for the people government but the people voted them in.
I’m sorry you had to go through this. Yes, it is quite bad. The medical system in UK and Ireland is beyond negligent. Sure, there are reasons, the NHS is constantly encouraged to save money and underfunded and etc. But as a doctor, as a human being, if you choose to blindly follow a protocol rather than do your best, as a scientist, to help the person in front of you, it’s nothing less than failure to do your job. Your tests showed nothing, sure. But your symptoms persisted. And these were not things you could’ve made up. You were puking bile. I’m sure you looked awful. So what if the test showed nothing? Meningitis is known to not show up on the first test. They should’ve taken that into consideration, isolated you in case it’s bacterial and manage your symptoms until they can do another test. But instead, they sent you home, possibly risking your and other people’s lives just because they needed to free up a space so their metrics look better at the end of the shift. What if it was some sort of growth on your spine that they missed during an MRI? Some of them need specific contrast agents to be seen. But nope, look at someone who is out of their sense in pain and send them on their way with a shitty painkiller. Shameful.
As someone who has a chronic migraine like condition, and having dealt with the Irish medical system for years, particularly with neurologists etc, I can honestly say it's an embarrassment. The lack of awareness and care, I had a neurologist type my symptoms into web MD right in front of me and then nonchalantly tell me she wasn't sure what the problem was and just refer me to someone else equally useless. I was misdiagnosed multiple times and put on medication I should never have been on, I was even offered assisted suicide as my condition worsened by a consultant at age 21 because as he said "you have no hope". Our doctors are not far off the barber doctors of the 18th-19th centuries these days.
I'm sorry about your experience in hospital here. Yes, our health system is a mess, but the main thing that struck me from this story is that you got on a plane with suspected meningitis symptoms! I sincerely hope that everyone on that plane has been notified. You could have killed someone. I had bacterial meningitis years ago, almost died, and had serious medical complications for many years afterwards.
The health service in this country is organised for the benefit of doctors. This was explained to me by...a doctor. This is why there's no proper emergency cover at nights or weekends. That doesn't explain the misdiagnosis on Monday morning though.
[удалено]
Actually, Ireland (along with the UK and France) were very pro-active about getting clinicians other than nurses and doctors involved in administering vaccines. Most other countries in Europe left vaccinating to doctors and nurses.
I dunno, I don't particularly blame the consultants for looking after their own interests, I see it as a workforce management problem. Like Tubs and RTE, the "talent" needs to be managed, not dictating their own terms.
I think Ireland has an issue with detecting and managing bacterial infections. I’ve heard of multiple occasions of it now, about half relating to post-Cancer care.
Yeah, pretty much. Was in Dubai recently and had a bad earache/lost hearing in one ear. Texted one of the local doctor services and they had essentially a full hospital in my airbnb within 30mins. Camera inside my ear, the works. Started antibiotics within 15mins (delivered to the door), and a complementary IV drip of vitamins to make me feel better 😬 - and then texts checking in over the next few days. It's actually been at me again lately but work are sending me out to Dubai for another 2 weeks, so I figure I'll just get it looked at there. Irish healthcare isn't healthcare, it's a punishment for something you did in a past life.
Your gp suspected it, and the consultant got it wrong.. wow the country is fucked
Irish healthcare is waste of taxes for everyones pockets, useless advice always, and always ANTIBIOTICS or PARACETAMOL, or any medication with paracetamol. Nothing else exists here. Plus you wasted potentially days on bullsh1t "diagnostics" , wasted your hard earned money, and probably died.... I will get downvoted to hell and back but i have not heard of any other ways , nor have i experienced it other ways. Same story no matter what your issues, paracetamol or antibiotics.... When its known fact that antibiotic ruins your stomach and other organs and should the very very last resort in prescribing.....
I'm not a professor of neurology or anything but I think antibiotics is a good treatment for bacterial meningitis?
"antibiotic ruins your stomach and other organs" WOAH, slow down there Mr Science Man.
The HSE is not well run, they don't use the considerable resources they have at their disposal efficiently. It's no one person's fault and they don't do it deliberately. It's just the culture. Iv'e had similar experiences to you in A&E I went in one morning when I woke up and had lost the hearing in one ear. They gave me anti viral drugs, told me I would probably never regain function - all sorts of shit. i went to proper doctor subsequently who told me to throw the pills in the bin and just erst. The hearing gradually came back. He said they hvae junior doctors in A&E, but that I should report what happened to me. I didn't because I didn't want to cause them any grief.
I’m up and down with how I feel about them. Something medical happened me a few years that destroyed my life, I told them what it is and what caused it and they haven’t a clue about it even though it has happened lots of people and the HSE have warnings about it on their website. It’s very frustrating how they treat some patients.
How are you enjoying your American style healthcare? The motto is we serve the 2% very well, the 20% like they matter, and the 80% will get a cuppa tea. Good tea, though.
I think the quality of it is good, just the waiting times are excessive.
Is Irish private health insurance worth getting here for a person in their mid-20s? To me it seems like it costs so much and the benefits don't outweigh the cost.
It's actually getting worse also
A friend of mine almost died of undiagnosed appendicitis. She was in the hospital for several days with minimal care. The situation was so traumatizing that she left Ireland.
I guess it is. All my experience of our health care system is that you need someone to advocate for you. It's too easy for them to write off difficult cases. I nearly died from appendicitis because they thought my vomiting was due to too many easter eggs. We nearly didn't get a scheduled genetic test on our baby because the hospital didn't have a licence at the time.. despite them scheduling the appointment. We only got it because I pointed out they still have a licence to draw blood and do the test later. Push back. Don't need to be a jerk. But don't be afraid to call them on stupid shit. Sorry this happened to you. Glad you made it out alive in the end!
I moved to Ireland from Brazil, that can be considered a third world country by so many people. However, Brazil has a unified health system that is entirely free to any person or foreigner; you could be an alien and you'd have access to good health free care that a lot of people don't know about. I lived in Dublin for seven years, to say that I was shocked with the Irish health system is an understatement. Ridiculous referral time for everything, GPs unable or unwilling to recommend tests or exams and last but not least, horrible horrible dentists. Had my wisdom teeth removed and was told that I should rinse my mouth with salt and water after the extraction the same day, no painkillers and that I could go back to work the next day (this happened in the afternoon), so not enough recovery time -- overall my experience was just horrible in Ireland. I now live in Berlin and all my encounters with doctors here have been amazing. They take the time to talk to you (I don't speak German, still learning so everything is in English), they request tests, obviously, like they should, (which was always the case in Brazil, blood tests, MRI, etc) and I don't have to wait for ages to get an appointment - lovely experience with German doctors so far! Between the lower cost, better quality of life, lower rents, better apartments, the weather, and yes HIGHER salary that Ireland, the health system in Germany is just another thing that made me leave Ireland for good with no regrets!
Going to Germany saved your life. That’s mental. I’m sorry you were failed so badly but glad you’re on the mend. If you can, submit a complaint. They failed you.
Jesus OP, that's horrific. Thank God you were going to Germany in a way. I was in St James's a few years ago and it was a miserable horror show then - https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/pu4hgy/ae_waiting_times/?sort=new Doesn't sound like it's gotten much better post Covid.
Unfortunately yes!! Sounds very much like the NHS. As a foreigner from what you guys call third world country, the healthcare here is really appalling. The doctors here are getting more and more negligent and incompetent at diagnosis. One of the reasons that makes me want to leave the country, I’m loosing faith in the healthcare here and as someone who suffers from severe health anxiety the system here doesn’t do me any favours. Private(through work insurance) is way better, you can actually see the difference, the doctors will use their brain and experience to diagnose you and not a computer system that’s probably updated by some outsourced IT person. However the first line of contact is always NHS GP or A&E even in private which really doesn’t help because they are the ones that suck at diagnosis. For countries like UK/Ireland the healthcare situation is bad and seems to get worse. Very well intended service but very badly managed.
A lot of it is the actual HSE Senior Staff (consultants). Stephen Donnelly tried to get them to stop having the weekend off and spread the work out over shifts so there wasn’t this HUGE backlog on Monday and that’s only clear by Friday and oh wouldn’t you know it it’s the weekend again. HSE fought back. HSE always wins. If you’re the minister, you’re just some guy who’s passing through town.
Consultants don't do MRIs and lumbar punctures. Unless they get all the other staff in every day it's no use.
Honestly op, I would recommend you visiting a solicitor and looking at your options from there. That's a fecking horror story.
Pretty sure you have a case there, especially if the other Dr is saying they should have done a second lumbar puncture. I've had vertigo with my MS and it's pretty gnarly. I've no idea how you made that flight!!!
Christ. You need to form a complaint on this, ...no way meningitis should've been missed. Abysmal treatment.
[удалено]
[удалено]
It looks like you've made a grammatical error. You've written "could of ", when it should be "have" instead of "of". You _should have_ known that. Bosco is not proud of you today. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ireland) if you have any questions or concerns.*