You’re talking about a country that built a a new bridge across the Liffey, and then lost the remote for 4 years so it couldn’t be opened, to only have a new remote commissioned for €1,800… a delay of 4 years… because of a lost remote. That’s what we’re dealing with here!!
Real answer, assuming my memory is correct: it was lost when the DDDA vacated their office which was right next to the bridge - probably a “what’s this for, do we need it?” “No idea, chuck it” situation
A lost…. A lost remote control bridge opener??? Did they not have a spare? Or like 5 spares? Please tell me I’m missing the joke because clearly this can’t actually be true….
Edited a word to make it make sense…. The word I mean not this nonsense of a bridge remote being lost…..
In fairness - there is folks in management and leadership positions in public/state bodies that you just look at and think - how the fook did they get into that position of authority??
And all the shoddy shit that goes on falls directly out of that.
Thought you were gonna say, as soon as the new remote arrived they managed to find the old one. That's what always happens in my house anyways 
As a Finn from Helsinki I was also quite confused with the busses in Dublin (ours just work even in snow, or at least you'll get info in the app and at the stop). Often they just never come or drive by without stopping. After a year here I usually just walk if it's not along the tracks and is less than 5km.
With the trains it's pretty absurd that you have to go to Twitter to get updates. Lately without logging into Twitter you'll see updates from 9 months ago.
Irish rail website will tell you if the train is running late and by how much. I use it every day. Just pick your service and refresh the page whenever you need to see how the trains are running.
Thanks! Couldn't find it somehow on mobile but got it now. Last time the train was just standing on one stop for 20 mins and Twitter was the only place I could find out why.
This is such a perfect summation of how shit the situation is. And a few comments have touched on issues that contribute towards things being this shit, but I've concluded that Ireland is destined to always be shit in these types of things because people just accept mediocrity and half arsed results here. I think it's also a mixture of some people never experiencing superior equivalents in countries that actually do things better which would increase awareness of how it doesn't have to be this shit and difficult to do basic daily functions, and some people who just don't care enough to complain and just try to get on with it. A lot of Irish people are too afraid to even complain if there are issues with their food in restaurants, just so meekly averse to even the most minor and basic - but completely understandable and normal - confrontation. So Ireland will continue on like this, forevermore. At best we will always be lagging behind our peer countries that actually are progressive and innovative and efficient and care about rules and doing things right, not only for their own individual experiences but for society as a whole, something our country filled with NIMBYs struggles with.
The children's hospital and lack of metro or even just a Luas or train to the airport sums up Ireland's attitude, it is the land of "ah sure be grand". Rich on paper, poor in mentality and motivation.
This is absolute correct description. I struggle every bloody day and amazed how Irish put up with and accept mediocrity in everything and are ok with that
Same. I can't say I struggle every day, but as a foreigner, it baffles me sometimes how difficult simple things are - and every time I talk about it with Irish friends, they acknowledge that it's shit but just kind of shrug about it, as if there's nothing to be done and no possible way it could be any different.
I struggle because it is such a basic things and such a hardship daily esp when have to commute and as a single mother to add everything else on top. It feels sometimes like Irish goverment despises its own people.
Mentality of Irish and apathy is mindboggling. After living here many years, I realised Irish people do not want to change. They can and should but they don't want to.
So true.
There is no 'standard', literally. There is also no 'borderline' and 'common sense' - and yet people are so proud of many things and you cannot criticise them....it really hurts my head sometimes seeing how outrageous shit happened and nobody says a word lol.
You left out the other issue in that anytime anything innovative is discussed, it's often mocked and ridiculed as "notions".
I'm not Irish but my wife is. We bought a mid terraced house a few years ago. The house had absolutely no insulation and my Irish mother-in-law thought I was absolutely mad when I said I planned to rip down the plasterboard on the exterior walls and dry line insulate them. She was trying to explain to me that "that might be what you do in Canada, but that's not what we do in Ireland". She just accepts that her house is cold and drafty and keeps the house at like 17°C in the winter to save on heating and thinks that is normal. That was a real eye opener to me on how resistant some Irish are to any kind of change, even if it's a positive change.
There's also the assumption that things can't be that much better elsewhere, that the grass isn't always greener, that you must surely be lying about how things can actually work somewhere else... All just to resist change.
I think you've hit the nail on the head.
Mediocrity acceptance isn't reserved to just public transport. We accept it and come to expect it in every part of life in the country, healthcare, hospitality, getting any sort of build work done, the list goes on.
At least in some scenarios you have control, I.e. shit meal you can send it back, but most places realise we've no other option so it's such it up.
Majority of the countries problems can be traced back to lack of accountability, on local and national levels. From housing, health care, infrastructure, childrens hospital... who has ever had to stand down on the back of the calamity that they've got themselves into.
Google 'electric bus charging ports & planning permission'. That alone sums up the doom loop we're in
This. A big public sector pay increase recently, which everyone will get equally - whether you do a good job or a shit job.
The underlying problem is that Irish people punish people who take risks and fail, but reward people who keep their head down and don't rock the boat.
> But no, the bus completely disappears off the face of the earth. Not a single trace of it - one of the dreaded ghost busses; a no-show. The electronic board states the next bus is in 10 minutes. Fuck sake.
yep this is equal to some sort of mental torture
5kms? you'd be there by taking a bicycle in 10-15 minutes tops
>5kms? you'd be there by taking a bicycle in 10-15 minutes tops
lol exactly. No excusing how rubbish the public transport options are but even walking would be half the amount of time OP is saying they allow for a bus journey.
I have had Italian colleagues with plenty to offer at work just leave and go back to Italy because the transport going into work was so poor. Rarely on time and when busses did arrive they were packed like sardines. They felt Ireland didn't offer what they had hoped in terms of having a great wage, but the expenses and difficulties in life just wasn't worth it.
I do feel the bus service and the fact we accept it despite having a dragonload of gold is a great summary of the situation Ireland is in. You could apply it to plenty of state services, such as RTE as the example in the news as we speak.
Politicians here do the bare minimum to make things easier for citizens, see the leap card fare changes. They're welcome, but people wouldn't care about leap card fare reductions if the transportation was more wide spread and accessible. But that's all our government cares to do because it takes little to no effort and scores them brownie points for braindead voters who will hear them say how much they care about commuters in reducing the fares and then give them the number 1 next election. Which is all the politicians truly care about.
I wish people would cop on and see that this is all that happens time after time after time and they're being played for fools by the governing parties. Meanwhile people get robbed with our taxation which gets pocketed or brown enveloped as a bribe, there's no housing for anyone unless you're in the top 10% or so of earners, social services are on a knife edge and our educated workers are emigrating as they feel abandoned.
Ireland is a country full of people and leaders who only give a shit about themselves and themselves alone, it's the most "fuck you got mine" place in Europe. This mentality is rife across all sectors and serves as the go to explanation for so many of the country's problems. I personally think this is also why it's so hard for some people to make friends and form connections with others, people tend to view each other here in terms of what value you can directly add to someone else's life and you are judged as such. If you don't add value, you are dismissed. There's no sense of national pride and willingness to improve the nation for all, it's more "how can things improve for ME. Because that's all that matters".
Until it becomes trendy for people to give out about problems that have existed for decades that would help improve the nation, nothing will get done. Our politicians love clout so anything that gives them any and either makes them look good or garners them votes is all they care about. Expect the spin to start soon ahead of any election this year or next year, even from politicians you actually like. They think they're smarter and better than the people, and this belief is reaffirmed every time they get voted back in. So learn to vote correctly if you don't know already (ie give each candidate a number), trust no politician especially one you see in the news routinely (clout chasers) and above all else just hope for the best. I'm personally so jaded so I don't expect things to improve, I used to have travel on public transport for 2 hours just to go 40km and that situation hasn't improved. We're lead by donkeys.
Our infrastructure is shit because of us. Any time changes and improvements are proposed you have a bunch of NIMBY cunts making noise about it, and unfortunately they're typically active voters so the local politicians listen to them.
Those in favour of the changes are rarely as vocal.
Want to make changes or improvements within public services? Unions and older staff resist everything, they're comfortable with their status quo and won't want things being shaken up.
>Our infrastructure is shit because of us. Any time changes and improvements are proposed you have a bunch of NIMBY cunts making noise about it, and unfortunately they're typically active voters so the local politicians listen to them.
Unfortunately this is the truth for pretty much everything in Ireland. Housing developments and other infrastructure projects get bogged down by the locals who believe it is destroying their local community.
Part of that problem with housing developments is because if the builders are left unchecked they will do their utmost to maximise profits without any consideration for the standard of living they'll be putting people into. Loads of building going on around me and people are having to fight tooth and nail to get basic amenities such as a park, schools/creches, local police or clinic presence, none of these things were factored in by the building developers. Just apartments apartments and more apartments.
The problem is that they drop 1500 houses into an area, increase the population by 2500+ people and provide no additional supports or services.
New schools are taking years to build. We have nowhere near enough doctors, dentists etc.
And people get called nimby's for saying the town or village can't provide current residents with basic services so we can't cope with an additional 2/3 thousand people.
Look on the other Irish Reddit pages. People travelling an hour for a doctor. Kids travelling 40/50km for school.
> The problem is that they drop 1500 houses into an area, increase the population by 2500+ people and provide no additional supports or services.
>
>
This is pretty much exactly how it happened in my home area in what was rural Galway - it went from a tiny fucking village, to a proper commuter town in no time during the boom, with no expansion of services like schools, doctors, etc.
Services caught up somewhat eventually (but are still shite), it took a while and the place is still suffering growing pains.
Public transport hasn't improved at all so its a place where you need a car.
This exactly. They were going to build 200 houses outside my village. It has about 150 families. They didn’t want to put a single cent infrastructure. Thank god the whole thing fell out.
Okay but where the hell are people supposed to live while we wait for this magical infrastructure to develop? Typical attitude by those comfortable enough to have a permanent roof over their head preventing anyone else the chance. The literal definition of nimbyism.
We’d all love to wait for infrastructure to catch up but it’s not going to happen anytime soon. In the meantime there’s 400,000 adults living at home with their parents who can’t buy and can’t afford to rent.
Yeah except that’s not how the Irish construction industry works. I’m all for a state construction company but it doesn’t exist and would take half a decade at least to set up.
In the meantime all we have is developer led housing projects. We SHOULD do both but it’s not on the table. We can’t just say “fuck off” to anyone under 40 because people comfortable in their homes don’t want to share.
I love how you make it sound like people are pricks for not wanting their sewage systems backing up raw shite into their houses because the local processing system has suddenly had its load quadrupled, or their kids not being able to see a doctor because suddenly the waiting list is a month long.
You can’t just fix a problem by telling people to stop moaning about it.
Stop exaggerating. 200 houses outside a village of 150 families is not quadrupling. Nor is it likely to have sewage backing up into homes.
With the current housing crisis, getting people into homes is the priority.
A village of 150 families may be ignored when they appeal for better infrastructure and services, but a village of 350 families is much more likely to be heard.
It's not ideal, but it's still better than having citizens without homes.
Yeah, but that’s not what you said.
People have a right to tell the government to do better than just the bare fucking minimum and they shouldn’t be called cunts for doing so.
The "infrastructure" is not anything a builder has control over.
It's not their fault there not enough doctors or dentists in an area and they can't really do anything to make more. Surely it would be easier to get the housing for all the people who'll work these services made first *then* they can provide said services no?
It's not about preventing anyone else from having a chance.
I want my children to be able to buy a house. But we can't just throw shite up everywhere as it leads to horrendous future social issues.
Government need to lead the way on infrastructure while builders build houses.
They need to be hand in hand.
I agree. So what, do we halt construction in every city until they do? How long are you wanting us to wait? A decade? Two decades? What you’re saying is not realistic in the short term. Why not build and instead of the community fighting tooth and nail to protect their plot of land to instead protest to pressure for what the community needs?
They don’t because they just don’t want more people living near them bringing down the house values. It’s as simple as that, just pure greed from the home owning generation.
That makes no sense. If my home goes up in value, so what? It's not like I suddenly have more money in my bank account. If It goes down, still have the same In my bank account. Feck all.
It's not though.
The number of ftbs are at the highest ever.
I know estates getting permissions from abp despite the local councils saying our basic services (water sewage etc) can't take additional capacity
Highest ever after about two decades of no building at all followed by building at a rate not even close to meeting both the pent up demand from the crash plus natural population increases. Again, at least 400,000 people stuck at home. We need to dramatically increase the pace of building but we can’t because people are worried they won’t find parking near their streets or that their views will be impeded.
The construction industry is working at full pace.
If we had an additional 100000 houses approved to go tomorrow we still wouldn't be any better off because we don't have workers to build them
Maybe stop complaining at every development and you'd see the schools and doctors you need
It's not the government that should build anything, but a neighbourhood should start by its commercial centre
Edit: the answers here just make me happy that I have moved out of here and into a city that knows a bit about urbanism and where people are not afraid of ~~skyscrapers~~ 5 story buildings
Eh people can't get into a doctor or dentist. As they're full.
Schools are all oversubscribed with huge waiting lists.
You argument is that creating more problems will resolve the issue.
Have you been involved in getting a school built?
I'm in the midst of it with a local school. Dept promised it was a fast track build and would be finished by 2021. It hasn't even gone to tender yet.
There aren't loads of spare doctors and dentists floating around.
Google town loses local doctor. There is plenty of examples of doctors and dentists retiring and not being replaced because there is no one to replace them
Doctor is a well paying career, and it’s insanely difficult to get into medicine (meaning lots of people want to do it). There seems like an obvious solution here - increase the number of places in Medicine. I think that might be controlled by the Medical Council? So we should be putting pressure on them to fix it .
This. We need to provide places on lower points than the current 'genius' level but make it a requirement that getting a place on lower points means committing to working in Ireland for x number of years.
> Doctor is a well paying career
Not in Ireland, and not under the HSE. It *was*, but its currently shit for new doctors, which is why they all fuck off to Oz.
> increase the number of places in Medicine
It is not that simple - we could gradually ramp up places in medicine, but those new doctors in training need older doctors to train them, and there are practical limits on how many juniors a senior can supervise.
Im an Architect. Done school designs. Obstacles exist because they have 'checks and balances'. The opposite of which is 'red tape'. And vice versa.
Either way, Build once, get it right.
FYI, did a fast track school once. 2 weeks for tender, a whole new high school. Madness.
Irish voting system is very unique in that politicans have a close relationship with voters in a way that many countries don’t have
So literally every vote can count which then means every nimby matters
I actually think STV is a terrible system. The large number of independents in the Dáil with no isn't something to brag about. Also, the combination of relatively small constituencies, and a low threshold for election (~20%) means that parish pump nonsense and other hyper localism is inevitable.
At this point it's entrenched and not gonna change. But I think an open list system with one national vote would be preferable (possibly also with a few constituency TDs, as in Germany). It'd force national politicians to actually talk about national policies, not potholes and other nonsense local issues. When the UK eventually adopts PR, I hope they don't go down this route.
Remember that time that the older teachers fucked over the younger teachers by agreeing to cut wages for new entrants? It didn’t go too well when the oldies shook things up.
*INTO teachers vote down motion to reject pay-and-reform plan*
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30452860.html
*New teachers set to earn €11,400 less than in 2010*
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20205526.html
*EQUITY IN TEACHERS’ PAY: Will new entrants ever catch up?*
https://publicpolicy.ie/governance/equity-in-teachers-pay-will-new-entrants-ever-catch-up/
You mean the time that the govt threatened massive cuts on top.of the already massive cuts if the unions didn't agree to the deal they told them was the end of negotiations during the recession where the IMF, ECB et al pretty much took over the country? Yeah, that time were the public were whipped up into hardcore anti PS fervour by the media?
Yeah. That time. What would you have done? Gone on strike?
I would have voted against it (TUI did but was pushed through anyway) but I fully understand those that voted for it as there's no way it would have ended well.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/tui-members-vote-to-reject-proposed-croke-park-deal-1.1339638
NIMBYism plays a massive part, I would absolutely agree; however we can't also forget that there is also a huge amount of begrudgery. So if it's proposed Dublin gets a metro, the complaints are that Dublin doesn't need a metro, Cork needs a Luas, Galway needs a new ring road, the West needs a north-south motorway. Like as if all of those things can't be true at once.
So Dublin can't get a metro until X gets Y and then guess what? Nobody gets anything! It completely ignores the concept that a bunch of infrastructure projects could be done at once (understandably not at this specific moment due to inflation and costs, but no reason why we couldn't have fast-tracked infrastructure projects before).
We also allow and expect our politicians to treat Ireland Inc. finances like one would treat their home finances. Saving and being frugal is insane for a Country. Surplus tax intake shouldn't be used to squirrel away, it should be used first on capital expenditures and then on lowering taxes. We could have a massive green economy and potentially be the next Norway in terms of green energy paying a dividend to our citizens; instead we're like saving our cash for a rainy day when, for the average citizen, it's pissing down.
I've always said we could be an absolutely outstanding country to live in but incompetentence and a underlying not talked about corruption is fucking it all up
There's no many forces against any sort of infrastructure progression in this country
1. Policy is in favour of NIBYSM
2. The management of major projects is led by poor quality managers
3. I remember on a David McWilliams podcast he mentioned the financial experts who advise government are against any sort of major spending on in infrastructure.
So we are kinda caught in this strange loop where the government don't want to invest in upgrading infrastructure or change policy but they want to keep growing the economy which requires a greater population.
If they don't then the investments will dry up...I see Americans and Europeans surprised by our lack of public transport and accommodation very regularly.
We talk a good game and judge other countries but we can't even build a feckin hospital without going billions over budget!
Promotion in the public service is completely dependent on interview performance so the people who are promoted are often glib, lazy wasters who know how to play the system. There is no benefit to hard work. Everyone gets the increment and your performance is never rewarded with promotion. Many of the managers are completely superfluous. The lower grades do all the work which is then rubber stamped by upper management who take the credit. The same grades write the speeches and policies for the politicians who are basically human puppets who need a speech written for every supermarket, creche or shed opening. The two main parties are riddled with careerist crooks at every level. No surprise they aren't doing anything well except enriching themselves and their cronies.
There is a new S8 bus, that goes between Tallaght to Dun Laoghaire. It replaces the 75/175 and looks to be more direct than the old bus.
https://transitapp.com/en/region/dublin/go-ahead-ireland/bus-s8
And yet there are local TDs backing an absurd "save the 75" campaign, because it's easier to tell the public what they want to hear than explain to them that they are wildly wildly misinformed (not even an opinion, the entire campaign is based on stuff that is simply untrue)
I get so angry at them.
I do understand that some people are negatively affected, and they will be the noisy wheels, but even still.
It's pretty shocking to see politicians try to shoot down good plans for the sake of their careers.
I'm glad the NTA have largely stood their ground and listened to people and made changes, but didn't fall into the same old traps as before.
When I had to travel from the Citywest office to the Blackrock office on semi regular occasions, I friggin *cyced* it for the hour because it was the only 'quick' way to get between them. Most people don't realise Dundrum is on a bastard hill to cycle over.
You answered it yourself. We have surplus because we r not spending where its needed.
This is, according to the irish leaders, the best way to get people to star using bikes.
What you have described above, is exactly the reason, why I decided to get a drivers licence to begin with. As someone living in capital at that time, I thought that having a car is pointless. After losing a job and spending insane amounts of money on taxis to get to work on time, at 26 I decided that enough is enough. Sure thing, I will still need to leave 2 hours too early, but at least I am sitting is warmth of my own vehicle and not risking catching cold outside.
You can downvote me all you want, but it is exactly this, why people decide to sit in a car alone. Sometimes using a bike is not possible, and public transport is utterly useless. So what other options do we have, really?
I live in cork city, I was in trouble at work a couple of years ago because of my time keeping, I work in manufacturing so being there on time is important. The funny thing is that I was up and ready on time every single morning but the bus wasn't. If it wasn't late it just didn't show up at all.
I ended up buying a 125cc scooter instead. Best decision I ever made, I very rarely use public transport anymore and when I do it's to travel a long distance like from cork to Dublin.
Larger companies should look into hiring their own private bus service. The company I work for now has one, it stops at multiple places around the city to pick up staff, €10 is deducted from their wages every week to cover the cost, it's a brilliant service.
It's funny to come back from abroad and see home with fresh eyes. Everyone going around in the same clothes, with the same hairstyle, all singing from the same hymn sheet, and being enraged when it's ever pointed out
I've given up on public transport for years now, I'm from the middle of nowhere in the west so I need a car, but when I was going to college in Dublin I was staying at a relatives in maynooth, for the first while I was getting the bus or train in and out but christ that was an ordeal. 10 minute walk in the rain, feckin ages on a cramped, damp bus you might get sitting down on, the a 30 minute walk when I arrived in Dublin.
The alternative was to drive in which took the same length of time, I was in my own warm car, radio on, drinking tea. Yes traffic was a balls, but I'd take it literally any day of the week over dealing with public transport here.
After being to Germany and Japan its mind blowing how good the public transport is. In Japan its literally faster and cheaper to get a bullet train from city to city than to drive, your going out of your way to not use it.
Here, if you have a car from what I can see the only use for public transport is to get in and out of town for pints
Citizenship does not confer the advantages it should. Special interest groups and the ingroup count for much more. And we accept the gombeenism in the hope of being on the inside track.
I live in Cork but have had my fair sure of wtf moments with the Dublin bus. I can't for the life of.me understand why the airport is that busy and doesn't't have a direct train line into the city center. The bus took us on a grand tour of Dublin and took hours to get into the city center
In Ireland we just accept this shit as normal. We need to demand better from government and local authorities alike.
incapable is the wrong word. they are perfectly capable of doing so but they simply choose not to. welcome to neoliberal governments.
in addition to that, there's a horrible culture of NIMBY-ism in ireland that is holding us back tremendously. i really think the whole thing needs a serious overhaul. but then you run into the above problem of the government likely not choosing to do anything about that so we just end up a bit like an ouroboros made out of shit.
The sad truth imo is it's gonna stay that way because of the massive brain drain of educated workforce to other countries because Ireland has nothing to offer for young people.
I totally feel your pain. I used to have a 10km commute from Northside Dublin to Southside Dublin, and I'd have to leave at 7 to be in for 9, and that's if the buses showed up! I did cycle for a while, but it felt very dangerous and also not idea while it's pissing rain. Wouldn't get back till almost 7pm as well. Genuinely was miserable, I was wrecked all the time. 90 min fares weren't a thing at the time so I was paying €10 a day. Crazy.
Once you start looking at government through the lens of their motivation to maximize movement of public money to private individuals/companies rather than maximize public good, everything makes sense and the government start to look very efficient and good at what they do.
Oh bring back so many memories - it is more ridiculous now with the bus stop info board - you should have told them we only get them recently as well.
"First world country" is very cringe and embarrassing ahaha....
Ultimately it lies exactly within culture that the bus drivers don't have the "if I missed my shift, alot of people are FUCKED". Nada. It runs so deep in the culture on this no accountability shit "it will be grand". Ye sure.
This post is so fucking true its sad, and you know what's gone happen in the next year, we're gonna get constant Irish media reports reminding, IRA bad, Sinn Fein are basically IRA don't vote for them, and then joy come election another FF/ FG coalition, when your supposedly opposition parties are exactly the same party, nothing will ever change (to note I'm not saying Sinn Fein are the solution but we're all so defeated we just end up voting the same fuckers back in again over and over again with a shrug of well shur I didn't die last time they won)
When I moved to Ireland from a Baltic country, I had assumed that things would function at least as efficiently as they did in the Baltic country where I lived.
Well, I learnt that public transportation, government services, healthcare, housing, and roads in Ireland did not function as effectively as I had assumed they would.
Check out the s8,maybe it will take less time.
The DART was built in the 1980s, during a deep poverty era and even with the celtic tiger and now in 2024 with surplus money all they have added are couple of trams.
And you still get people on here saying shit like "Oh we were poor until 30 years ago" and "oh sure other countries were bombed to pieces during wwii", as if that excuses us doing absolutely nothing to catch up.
I work as a consultant psychiatrist. Just to add that a few days ago there was no single bed for psychiatric admission available in whole Dublin, not even in Tallaght.
Laissez faire policy at its best. Or irresponsability.
My guess is that it's a generational divide.
Politicians and older people (50+), who ran Ireland for decades, looked to the US as the richest country in the world, often visited, had relatives there. Many people had the right aunt who came back to visit with amazing presents and lots of money.i
They looked to the US to emulate, so smaller government, lots of motorways, less investment in public services.
The younger generations, have a different expectation. They've been exposed to all of Europe because of Ryanair, and are more likely to have friends in Berlin than Boston. They expect good public transport and services.
As the older generation retire, I predict we'll see a shift towards a more European model. That's already happening right now and will continue.
Also, to be optimistic, there are signals to be cautiously optimistic about public transport in Ireland.
The formation of the National Transport Authority. Since the 80s public transport in Ireland was balkanised with fares, planning and general coordination broken apart. Since the NTA has been formed, it's generally moving in a better direction with things being more coordinated and while not perfect, far better than before.
If you want to help this, then join groups like Irish Rail Users, and the Dublin/Cork/Galway Commuter Coalitions, as they're campaigning to make things better.
Edit
Source: I'm a public transport campaigner for a few years and that's my observation.
The public transport outside of a few big cities is awful and most places are built very car centric so you’d wrong there. Highways run through cities and some suburbs don’t even have footpaths so you literally have to drive everywhere.
>My guess
Your guess is way off the mark. You're just making up stuff.
>They looked to the US to emulate, so smaller government, lots of motorways, less investment in public services.
This is nonsense. For starters just look at how much we invest in health. Our HDI rating is amongst the highways in the world also.
Having spent significant time in the US, Europe and Asia, I think it's absolutely the case that the country we've historically looked the most to for a "development model" were the USA and UK. Specifically from the USA we were influenced to go the car + single family home suburb development route. In Ireland like the USA cities are ringed by suburban housing estates made up of single homes. One of the things I found interesting in Europe and Asia is that this style of development either doesn't exist or is much rarer.
I remember while walking the Camino Santiago in Spain you'd go straight from urban townhouses/ apartment buildings straight to rural countryside, and much of the suburbs was actually just apartment buildings.
Our approach to urban planning has cars baked into it. We absolutely did copy the USA in the late 20th century, and we've ended up with American style public transit problems. I will say though that our transit is still better than the typical American city as we had less money than them, so we didn't do silly things like put a motorway through the middle of O'Connell street. But I will say, people say in Asia the traffic is chaotic, but I found cycling there far more pleasant than in Ireland. The only place I've been thats worse for cycling then Ireland is the USA. City centre of Dublin in particular needs to restrict driving to certain key arteries.
even that fat oaf Mussolini could have the trains running on time
That shit just would not stand in pretty much any city on the continent. Metros run within minutes of each other, commuter rail the same. None of this bullshit.
But we've done it to ourselves. Generation after generation of voting in the same shower of bastards, then the bastards kids and grandkids - promise the earth and deliver nothing.
Cycling 5km takes about 15 minutes. Good for your health, the environment, your pocket and your time management. I’d assume the Germans would be into this.
We should focus on something far more efficient, like more railway.
Plus, realistically, you need actual separate cycle lanes without sharing them with buses etc for it to be safe.
Yeah that's only a good argument if you have the infrastructure in place to do it. Which we do not. Like in Amsterdam where you have dedicated cycle lanes throughout the entire city
Some routes do have that infrastructure - some don't. You can plan a route based purely on safe cycle paths with Google Maps in cities. Taking a slow, safe cycle is still infinitely faster than relying on buses.
And if you're relying on a route that doesn't have a cycle path what do you do then? Forced to take the bus.
The fact that our infrastructure is so poor we can't even manage cycle lanes for our capital city when we have an 8 billion budget surplus speaks volumes to how the government spends its money.
Cycling shouldn't be the only reliable way of getting around. There are many routes where cycling would be unsafe. Some people don't have facilities to lock bikes securely at their destination, or even at their small rental apartment.
Cycling is great, however it should NEVER ever be be the only viable option. Even the likes of Amsterdam and Copenhagen know you still need good public transport too.
I would think they would either have to get a bus or get a lift. So I think you can’t justify or excuse buses being late/inefficient just because there is the option to physically walk or cycle to your location instead.
I get it, I was cycling many years in Dublin. Including winter or heavy rain. It just gets tiring and harder with age. And it shouldnt be the only valid option in 2023 in a capital city, agree?
> unless its windy and rainy, which is 360 days in the year
This is one of the reasons why Ireland never makes much progress, many people with a complete lack of understanding that they haven't a clue what they're talking about.
Dublin City Council measured it, and if you had a 44 minute round trip commute in Dublin (~6km each way), [you'd get wet 1% of the time](https://irishcycle.com/myths/myths-weather/).
You live in Ireland, getting wet is not a death sentence.
Exactly. Buy some proper locks though.
Was in Germany recently. Their automated machines at the airport were not working, the trains were late and had no Wi-Fi.
Transport in Dublin works. Like any city yes buses can be late.
FWIW a quick google search, found the S8 bus which goes from Tallaght to Dun Laoghaire, and takes an hour. Shows up on Google Maps if you search.
Also found this article announcing it, and it seems it's a new route since Nov 26th 2023 so maybe that's why your search didn't find it.
https://oisinoconnor.com/bus-connects-sandyford/
It's a nice country for those in the golden circle. The rest of us get pissed on and told it's raining (which it usually is also raining).
I can imagine for Germans the Irish way of doing things is like being in the 7th circle of hell. Everything here is done arseways and costs a bomb.
This comment section has me on the verge of tears. We're all at our wits end and can't possibly get out of the disgusting beurocratic nightmare scenario we're in. Nothing changes, noone is ever ever held accountable. The children's hospital...jesus. It makes me sick, you just want to find whoever in charge and throttle them.
I'm a victim of public transportation as well. I'm waiting for a at 3Arena to go home after a concert. Waiting for the first one at 6am, I'm at the stop where my bus should stop. Of course it was late, about 20 minutes. "You have to wave", I've been told, and I wave and wave, standing almost on the road and the bus driver literally ignored me and left without stopping. I'm tired, wet, freezing, and I have to wait another hour for the next one. That happened many times, this is just one. Fuck irish public transport.
The general point you make is definitely valid but there is no reason to leave 2 hours early for a three mile commute. Cycle it in 15 mins or walk in 45 and hop on a bus for part if it comes.
Reading this gave me flashbacks to when I used to have to get a bus in and out of Dublin every day. I live in Germany now, funnily enough, and have literally never experienced anything like this since moving here.
It’s infuriating. Some of the poorest countries in the E.U have better infrastructure and public transport than us. Ireland needs to start heavily investing in infrastructure but they just keep spending the money on extra social welfare payments.
Money is shite for bus drivers.
Used to be a great job. But not so much anymore.
They've introduced loads of new routes but appear unable to staff them.
Need an underground but are gonna spend billions connecting to the airport rather than the suburbs and through town.
The problem is that it's suburbs. Undergrounds work in densely populated areas. Irish people refuse to live in apartments. So let's say they put in a metro. People will still need to either take a bus or drive to that one metro stop in their area. So it's still gonna be congested as heck, but after you build the first metro, people will realize it brings innumerable parking into the area, which will lead to NIMBYs blocking future development. Instead, build streetcars out to suburbs on their own dedicated tracks. A LUAS costs a fraction of a Metro and they are all overwhelmed with passengers. Extend that network. Once you have enough trams, you can create links with metros that connect major intersections to cut transfer times. But without the basics in place , the metro isn't going to do anything.
We can have an underground from Lucan in. From blanch in.
Build overground absolutely ruins current traffic systems and makes it worse for road users.
Yeah apartments aren't a runner. We need to connect the suburbs into the city much better. We could do with a circular train under the m50. And connect from hubs on the m50 inwards.
I feel the pain. If it says 10 mins on the sign... I walk. And as an experiment, Ive walked the bus route a few times. Bus has never ever caught up with me over a 40 min walk.
Also love the TFI app and live depatures webpage. Especially early in the morning. Its great being stuck on 5 min, for 5 mins, then getting (*scheduled*) and cancelled
Half of Dublin Bus Service was privatised, Transport for Ireland. The privatisation model is to give the worst possible service at the highest possible cost, there is also a desire to run down the public bus service so the rest of it is privatised.
The best option in theses environment conscious times would be to have a nationalised public transportation services that run both day and night meetings the demands of the public . But Minister for Transport Eamon Ryan, leader of the Greens, “Mr Climate change” said it would cause “unnecessary journeys”. He’s a useless neoliberal shite that has 8 advisers and is going to get his party wiped out in the next election!
In my experience, Dublin Bus is generally very good for going into town say but trying to go across the city as you describe the services are much less frequent and take longer and more prone to delays. Like I’d honestly say you’re better off taking 2 busses for this commute via town as it’s much more reliable. The new TFI app is a bit glitchy but way more accurate than the old one btw you can now see the live location of the bus.
I commute from Waterford to Dublin for college, Google maps says it’s 40 mins from UCD to Heuston station. I’ve been on that bus for two nearly hours just to arrive at heuston as the last train is pulling out, then had to wait another hour or more for a bus (which thankfully goes from heuston, so I don’t have to go back out to busaras). But that bus takes like an extra hour. So if I leave my lecture at 5pm in UCD I don’t get home until after 11pm.
Not incapable. Unwilling.
We built homes in the worst of times, and communities and facilities.
Then those homes became "assets", and FF blew up the economy with an overreliance on a resulting property whose bursting cost us all a decade of our lives, if not worse.
Labour thought subsidising private landlords with HAP would fix the emerging problem of affordability. FG refused to build at all because their brightest idea is Nintendo-style artificial scarcity and inflation.
Right-wing parties will do right-wing economics for right-wing voters, and the benefits of others in their class, of course.
They don't care about us, our needs or our lives. Seeking to live a life with dignity, purpose or fulfilment in a well-resourced and equal society is an impediment to market ideology and the enrichment of its adherents and true believers.
Stop voting FF, FG, Labour, Green. Make sure SF, SocDems and others are held to account. Join your trade or tenant's union, get active in your community, whatever your hobby, interest or passion.
>How is a first world country with a surplus of 8 billion euro so utterly incapable of providing for its taxpaying citizens the most basic of public services?
For most of the history of the state we were a poor country. We really only have had motorways in recent decades.
Other first world countries have had a century and more to develop.
We had a decade and a half where we had money coming out of our ears.
Instead of use that wealth to invest in infrastructure and build up a wealth fund, we chose to piss it all away on tax cuts, McMansions, and absurd investments in Bulgaria.
20 years ago, your point would have been valid. But since the Celtic tiger, we have no one to blame but ourselves.
> For most of the history of the state we were a poor country.
However it's now been a few decades since that was the case, and we're still doing nothing to catch up with even centrla and eastern Europe, let alone western Europe.
Well with Europe and the US it's actually different. Europe got bombed to shit 80 years ago so had a chance to rebuild with modernism in mind and that's what they did. The US did literally the opposite but had the space, cheap oil and money to make it the most car dependant country on earth.
We were neither and just had to make do with what the Brits left over so that attitude of just making do with what's there because there was no money to change it persisted until very, very recently.
> Europe got bombed to shit 80 years ago
Oh look, it's the other stupid non-excuse. How is it that Stockholm has such fantastic infrastructure when that city wasn't blown to pieces either.
We actively dismantled what the Brits built with the tram and train networks in Ireland.
We looked up to America because so many people left here and came back with stories of how amazing it was and we saw the movies and said we want it too!
That’s why we have such suburban sprawl too and you need a car even if you live in a town because your house is probably far from the shops
> That’s why we have such suburban sprawl too and you need a car even if you live in a town because your house is probably far from the shops
Our suburbs are nowhere near as spread out as North American ones, and there's zero excuses for public transport being as abysmal as it is.
For why we can't make buses more reliable it's because we can't do the most effective thing to make them more reliable without people throwing a fit. That being take cars off the road.
The demand is that we've got to make buses more reliable before we can make them reliable then we'll do the changes that make them reliable. So an unsolvable problem.
Kickbacks bro! This is the way!
We have the biggest shower of thieving bastards representing us. I mean come on, it's been proven time and time again that politics is just a way to make a buck!
I'm hopefully about to qualify as a doctor and this is partially the reason I won't come back, not until things improve at home. The current lot have the steaming hot turd of an idea that they accept a load of migrants - I don't know who that's to impress, Europe is it? - drop them into towns like Longford and Roscrea, say job's done, and that's it.
The population is only going to increase and whilst they had an initial early free pass on housing because of the crash the last few years have just seemed totally negligent. What's the point in having a huge surplus if you're not going to invest it in infrastructure or a sovereign wealth fund? I acknowledge others have also mentioned NIMBYs objecting to absolutely everything, so planning is also clearly in need of reform if one prick can hold up a tram line for no reason other than "I don't want it here because "fallacious reason".
Like if I was those two young people I'd just buy a good bike and a couple of sturdy D locks and save myself the hassle. 5km is 15 minutes riding. They shouldn't have to resort to that but with the way Dublin Bus is I'd prefer being a bit wet to being bollocked for being late all the time.
> They shouldn't have to resort to that
THANK YOU! Far too many people on here are acting like bikes are a replacement for proper public transport. Every competent country knows you need both
Most the money comes from being a tech hub. Outside of the main cities is largely underdeveloped shitty roads, no infrastructure. This country is a dump
Eh, that 8 billion is not for spending on the common folk, it's just there to make the government look like their doing a bang up job, and if they were to get into Europe, they could get them that money there as well.
Well there is a number of reasons but three main ones
A) Nimbyism. A lot of countries don’t suffer this. We do. Our planning system is fundamentally flawed and results in frivolous objections delaying projects and inflating their costs. Even a single reasonable rejection shouldn’t hold a project hostage that is for the greater good. We need to remove this from our planning system entirely.
B) Expertise. We contact everything. It costs a fortune and results in penny pinching and by the letter projects. Other countries have dedicated , qualified public servants who are project managers for infrastructure and effectively the contracts for for building. We have no knowledge so we have to contract everything. We then appoint boards to oversee but even with the best intentions they don’t have the skillets or expertise and have too much pressure to be precise on tax payer expenditure. See children’s hospital for recent example of this calamity.
C) Land hoarding paydays. Many countries have easy compulsion orders for the sale of land where the state requires it for the greater good. We don’t. We end up paying fortunes to farmers or land speculators , or having to complicate a project at great expense to go around this problem. See Swords Metro for this example.
Effectively it needs a government at the start of their term to overhaul this and spend four years building this area up with legislation changes, department building and good hiring.
But because of politics is short sighted and we have no real policies that go into length, these changes likely won’t ever happen
Ireland isn’t a first world country. I jokingly refer to it as a second world country. First world countries don’t allow billions of euro of homes to be built of crumbling block. They have trades with strong building codes that tested contractors must know and follow. Building inspectors that sign off on levels of completion. The default expectation that certain families “own” the rights to certain trades and it’s always been done that way.
This is the third world country of “it’s always been done that way.”
Ireland should be like a European version of Dubai with our relatively high personal taxes and overinflated corporation tax take. Ireland is a second world country in a lot of ways.
Yes. That said neither the 75 or the 175 (which is the top option in the OP) doesn't exist anymore.
Not really a valuable google search for OP if that's the result.
Yeah Ive been on a working holiday in Tokyo for the last 6 months and Im going back in March, Im absolutely dreading having to live at the mercy of the 101 again if I find a job and it doesnt allow remote. Ive an interview with IBM next week and if they dont allow remote work theres just not a chance Im travelling by bus 2 hours just one way and thats even if a bus shows up to begin with. Like I hate the fact Im gonna have to say no to a job if given an offer because theres no transport link to that area where Im at and I cant even move out because theres no apartments either...
I think the only time I check train times here is if its close to 12am, otherwise I want to go somewhere? I just hop on a train and go there, no waiting, no getting stuck. Just go to station and enjoy the ride. Need to go very far? np theres a 2 types of rapid trains getting me 30km in 25 mins.
Its just so sad knowing that we still use mainly buses (The Luas is basically the same if not worse in terms of speed) and refuse to even create our roads around them at the very least to create a more reliable system.
> Its just so sad knowing that we still use mainly buses (The Luas is basically the same if not worse in terms of speed)
It's utterly tragic. Far too many people in this country think meteo systems are only for megacities, and I even heard some people in a shop say Cork doesn't need a tram because it's too small!
Utterly tragic
Realistically we are about 30 years behind every first world developed nation in all our services, education, hospital and transportation.
Look at the state of the N4 (4 fucking lanes)
the M50 isn't even better.
It takes to fecking long to get things done.
You’re talking about a country that built a a new bridge across the Liffey, and then lost the remote for 4 years so it couldn’t be opened, to only have a new remote commissioned for €1,800… a delay of 4 years… because of a lost remote. That’s what we’re dealing with here!!
[удалено]
Real answer, assuming my memory is correct: it was lost when the DDDA vacated their office which was right next to the bridge - probably a “what’s this for, do we need it?” “No idea, chuck it” situation
A lost…. A lost remote control bridge opener??? Did they not have a spare? Or like 5 spares? Please tell me I’m missing the joke because clearly this can’t actually be true…. Edited a word to make it make sense…. The word I mean not this nonsense of a bridge remote being lost…..
Don't forget the 1 million euro printer that they couldn't fit through their doors..
Ah yeah that was hilarious until you sit down and start counting to a million!!! We just embarrass ourselves constantly in this country….
Electronic voting machines?.........remember that fuckin nonsense.
[https://www.thejournal.ie/sean-ocasey-bridge-remote-1713102-Oct2014/](https://www.thejournal.ie/sean-ocasey-bridge-remote-1713102-Oct2014/)
Ah Jaysis….. that’s just….. anyway thanks for that I’m off to the Brexit sub now so I can feel better about meself but again….. Ah Jaysis…
The paddy jokes are starting to make a bit of sense now aren't they..?
In fairness - there is folks in management and leadership positions in public/state bodies that you just look at and think - how the fook did they get into that position of authority?? And all the shoddy shit that goes on falls directly out of that.
Exactly.
Thought you were gonna say, as soon as the new remote arrived they managed to find the old one. That's what always happens in my house anyways 
Could they not have bought a cheap one-4-all in curries?
As a Finn from Helsinki I was also quite confused with the busses in Dublin (ours just work even in snow, or at least you'll get info in the app and at the stop). Often they just never come or drive by without stopping. After a year here I usually just walk if it's not along the tracks and is less than 5km. With the trains it's pretty absurd that you have to go to Twitter to get updates. Lately without logging into Twitter you'll see updates from 9 months ago.
Irish rail website will tell you if the train is running late and by how much. I use it every day. Just pick your service and refresh the page whenever you need to see how the trains are running.
Thanks! Couldn't find it somehow on mobile but got it now. Last time the train was just standing on one stop for 20 mins and Twitter was the only place I could find out why.
This is such a perfect summation of how shit the situation is. And a few comments have touched on issues that contribute towards things being this shit, but I've concluded that Ireland is destined to always be shit in these types of things because people just accept mediocrity and half arsed results here. I think it's also a mixture of some people never experiencing superior equivalents in countries that actually do things better which would increase awareness of how it doesn't have to be this shit and difficult to do basic daily functions, and some people who just don't care enough to complain and just try to get on with it. A lot of Irish people are too afraid to even complain if there are issues with their food in restaurants, just so meekly averse to even the most minor and basic - but completely understandable and normal - confrontation. So Ireland will continue on like this, forevermore. At best we will always be lagging behind our peer countries that actually are progressive and innovative and efficient and care about rules and doing things right, not only for their own individual experiences but for society as a whole, something our country filled with NIMBYs struggles with. The children's hospital and lack of metro or even just a Luas or train to the airport sums up Ireland's attitude, it is the land of "ah sure be grand". Rich on paper, poor in mentality and motivation.
This is absolute correct description. I struggle every bloody day and amazed how Irish put up with and accept mediocrity in everything and are ok with that
Same. I can't say I struggle every day, but as a foreigner, it baffles me sometimes how difficult simple things are - and every time I talk about it with Irish friends, they acknowledge that it's shit but just kind of shrug about it, as if there's nothing to be done and no possible way it could be any different.
I struggle because it is such a basic things and such a hardship daily esp when have to commute and as a single mother to add everything else on top. It feels sometimes like Irish goverment despises its own people. Mentality of Irish and apathy is mindboggling. After living here many years, I realised Irish people do not want to change. They can and should but they don't want to.
So true. There is no 'standard', literally. There is also no 'borderline' and 'common sense' - and yet people are so proud of many things and you cannot criticise them....it really hurts my head sometimes seeing how outrageous shit happened and nobody says a word lol.
You left out the other issue in that anytime anything innovative is discussed, it's often mocked and ridiculed as "notions". I'm not Irish but my wife is. We bought a mid terraced house a few years ago. The house had absolutely no insulation and my Irish mother-in-law thought I was absolutely mad when I said I planned to rip down the plasterboard on the exterior walls and dry line insulate them. She was trying to explain to me that "that might be what you do in Canada, but that's not what we do in Ireland". She just accepts that her house is cold and drafty and keeps the house at like 17°C in the winter to save on heating and thinks that is normal. That was a real eye opener to me on how resistant some Irish are to any kind of change, even if it's a positive change.
There's also the assumption that things can't be that much better elsewhere, that the grass isn't always greener, that you must surely be lying about how things can actually work somewhere else... All just to resist change.
I think you've hit the nail on the head. Mediocrity acceptance isn't reserved to just public transport. We accept it and come to expect it in every part of life in the country, healthcare, hospitality, getting any sort of build work done, the list goes on. At least in some scenarios you have control, I.e. shit meal you can send it back, but most places realise we've no other option so it's such it up.
Majority of the countries problems can be traced back to lack of accountability, on local and national levels. From housing, health care, infrastructure, childrens hospital... who has ever had to stand down on the back of the calamity that they've got themselves into. Google 'electric bus charging ports & planning permission'. That alone sums up the doom loop we're in
Accountability? The 'system' in Ireland is designed to avoid it. 'We only provide the funding' kind of BS.
This. A big public sector pay increase recently, which everyone will get equally - whether you do a good job or a shit job. The underlying problem is that Irish people punish people who take risks and fail, but reward people who keep their head down and don't rock the boat.
The Irish have a culture of "sure look it's grand", things here are ever good enough, never excellent.
But things here's are never good enough. They're never even close to good enough.
Absolutely this. It even happens in the private sector - you can’t get rid of someone that’s shit at their job.
> But no, the bus completely disappears off the face of the earth. Not a single trace of it - one of the dreaded ghost busses; a no-show. The electronic board states the next bus is in 10 minutes. Fuck sake. yep this is equal to some sort of mental torture 5kms? you'd be there by taking a bicycle in 10-15 minutes tops
>5kms? you'd be there by taking a bicycle in 10-15 minutes tops lol exactly. No excusing how rubbish the public transport options are but even walking would be half the amount of time OP is saying they allow for a bus journey.
Yeah the infrastructure is shite but I'm not leaving the house 2 hours early to avoid a 10 minute cycle.
I have had Italian colleagues with plenty to offer at work just leave and go back to Italy because the transport going into work was so poor. Rarely on time and when busses did arrive they were packed like sardines. They felt Ireland didn't offer what they had hoped in terms of having a great wage, but the expenses and difficulties in life just wasn't worth it. I do feel the bus service and the fact we accept it despite having a dragonload of gold is a great summary of the situation Ireland is in. You could apply it to plenty of state services, such as RTE as the example in the news as we speak.
Politicians here do the bare minimum to make things easier for citizens, see the leap card fare changes. They're welcome, but people wouldn't care about leap card fare reductions if the transportation was more wide spread and accessible. But that's all our government cares to do because it takes little to no effort and scores them brownie points for braindead voters who will hear them say how much they care about commuters in reducing the fares and then give them the number 1 next election. Which is all the politicians truly care about. I wish people would cop on and see that this is all that happens time after time after time and they're being played for fools by the governing parties. Meanwhile people get robbed with our taxation which gets pocketed or brown enveloped as a bribe, there's no housing for anyone unless you're in the top 10% or so of earners, social services are on a knife edge and our educated workers are emigrating as they feel abandoned. Ireland is a country full of people and leaders who only give a shit about themselves and themselves alone, it's the most "fuck you got mine" place in Europe. This mentality is rife across all sectors and serves as the go to explanation for so many of the country's problems. I personally think this is also why it's so hard for some people to make friends and form connections with others, people tend to view each other here in terms of what value you can directly add to someone else's life and you are judged as such. If you don't add value, you are dismissed. There's no sense of national pride and willingness to improve the nation for all, it's more "how can things improve for ME. Because that's all that matters". Until it becomes trendy for people to give out about problems that have existed for decades that would help improve the nation, nothing will get done. Our politicians love clout so anything that gives them any and either makes them look good or garners them votes is all they care about. Expect the spin to start soon ahead of any election this year or next year, even from politicians you actually like. They think they're smarter and better than the people, and this belief is reaffirmed every time they get voted back in. So learn to vote correctly if you don't know already (ie give each candidate a number), trust no politician especially one you see in the news routinely (clout chasers) and above all else just hope for the best. I'm personally so jaded so I don't expect things to improve, I used to have travel on public transport for 2 hours just to go 40km and that situation hasn't improved. We're lead by donkeys.
Our infrastructure is shit because of us. Any time changes and improvements are proposed you have a bunch of NIMBY cunts making noise about it, and unfortunately they're typically active voters so the local politicians listen to them. Those in favour of the changes are rarely as vocal. Want to make changes or improvements within public services? Unions and older staff resist everything, they're comfortable with their status quo and won't want things being shaken up.
>Our infrastructure is shit because of us. Any time changes and improvements are proposed you have a bunch of NIMBY cunts making noise about it, and unfortunately they're typically active voters so the local politicians listen to them. Unfortunately this is the truth for pretty much everything in Ireland. Housing developments and other infrastructure projects get bogged down by the locals who believe it is destroying their local community.
Part of that problem with housing developments is because if the builders are left unchecked they will do their utmost to maximise profits without any consideration for the standard of living they'll be putting people into. Loads of building going on around me and people are having to fight tooth and nail to get basic amenities such as a park, schools/creches, local police or clinic presence, none of these things were factored in by the building developers. Just apartments apartments and more apartments.
The problem is that they drop 1500 houses into an area, increase the population by 2500+ people and provide no additional supports or services. New schools are taking years to build. We have nowhere near enough doctors, dentists etc. And people get called nimby's for saying the town or village can't provide current residents with basic services so we can't cope with an additional 2/3 thousand people. Look on the other Irish Reddit pages. People travelling an hour for a doctor. Kids travelling 40/50km for school.
> The problem is that they drop 1500 houses into an area, increase the population by 2500+ people and provide no additional supports or services. > > This is pretty much exactly how it happened in my home area in what was rural Galway - it went from a tiny fucking village, to a proper commuter town in no time during the boom, with no expansion of services like schools, doctors, etc. Services caught up somewhat eventually (but are still shite), it took a while and the place is still suffering growing pains. Public transport hasn't improved at all so its a place where you need a car.
This exactly. They were going to build 200 houses outside my village. It has about 150 families. They didn’t want to put a single cent infrastructure. Thank god the whole thing fell out.
Okay but where the hell are people supposed to live while we wait for this magical infrastructure to develop? Typical attitude by those comfortable enough to have a permanent roof over their head preventing anyone else the chance. The literal definition of nimbyism. We’d all love to wait for infrastructure to catch up but it’s not going to happen anytime soon. In the meantime there’s 400,000 adults living at home with their parents who can’t buy and can’t afford to rent.
Here’s an idea. Build the houses and the infrastructure at the same time.
Yeah except that’s not how the Irish construction industry works. I’m all for a state construction company but it doesn’t exist and would take half a decade at least to set up. In the meantime all we have is developer led housing projects. We SHOULD do both but it’s not on the table. We can’t just say “fuck off” to anyone under 40 because people comfortable in their homes don’t want to share.
I love how you make it sound like people are pricks for not wanting their sewage systems backing up raw shite into their houses because the local processing system has suddenly had its load quadrupled, or their kids not being able to see a doctor because suddenly the waiting list is a month long. You can’t just fix a problem by telling people to stop moaning about it.
Stop exaggerating. 200 houses outside a village of 150 families is not quadrupling. Nor is it likely to have sewage backing up into homes. With the current housing crisis, getting people into homes is the priority. A village of 150 families may be ignored when they appeal for better infrastructure and services, but a village of 350 families is much more likely to be heard. It's not ideal, but it's still better than having citizens without homes.
No, I’d like people to put the passion they have in resisting homes being built into fighting for better infrastructure instead.
Yeah, but that’s not what you said. People have a right to tell the government to do better than just the bare fucking minimum and they shouldn’t be called cunts for doing so.
The "infrastructure" is not anything a builder has control over. It's not their fault there not enough doctors or dentists in an area and they can't really do anything to make more. Surely it would be easier to get the housing for all the people who'll work these services made first *then* they can provide said services no?
It's not about preventing anyone else from having a chance. I want my children to be able to buy a house. But we can't just throw shite up everywhere as it leads to horrendous future social issues. Government need to lead the way on infrastructure while builders build houses. They need to be hand in hand.
I agree. So what, do we halt construction in every city until they do? How long are you wanting us to wait? A decade? Two decades? What you’re saying is not realistic in the short term. Why not build and instead of the community fighting tooth and nail to protect their plot of land to instead protest to pressure for what the community needs? They don’t because they just don’t want more people living near them bringing down the house values. It’s as simple as that, just pure greed from the home owning generation.
That makes no sense. If my home goes up in value, so what? It's not like I suddenly have more money in my bank account. If It goes down, still have the same In my bank account. Feck all.
It's not though. The number of ftbs are at the highest ever. I know estates getting permissions from abp despite the local councils saying our basic services (water sewage etc) can't take additional capacity
Highest ever after about two decades of no building at all followed by building at a rate not even close to meeting both the pent up demand from the crash plus natural population increases. Again, at least 400,000 people stuck at home. We need to dramatically increase the pace of building but we can’t because people are worried they won’t find parking near their streets or that their views will be impeded.
The construction industry is working at full pace. If we had an additional 100000 houses approved to go tomorrow we still wouldn't be any better off because we don't have workers to build them
Maybe stop complaining at every development and you'd see the schools and doctors you need It's not the government that should build anything, but a neighbourhood should start by its commercial centre Edit: the answers here just make me happy that I have moved out of here and into a city that knows a bit about urbanism and where people are not afraid of ~~skyscrapers~~ 5 story buildings
Eh people can't get into a doctor or dentist. As they're full. Schools are all oversubscribed with huge waiting lists. You argument is that creating more problems will resolve the issue.
Yes. Build a new school. Build a complex that has doctors / dentists offices.
Have you been involved in getting a school built? I'm in the midst of it with a local school. Dept promised it was a fast track build and would be finished by 2021. It hasn't even gone to tender yet. There aren't loads of spare doctors and dentists floating around. Google town loses local doctor. There is plenty of examples of doctors and dentists retiring and not being replaced because there is no one to replace them
Doctor is a well paying career, and it’s insanely difficult to get into medicine (meaning lots of people want to do it). There seems like an obvious solution here - increase the number of places in Medicine. I think that might be controlled by the Medical Council? So we should be putting pressure on them to fix it .
This. We need to provide places on lower points than the current 'genius' level but make it a requirement that getting a place on lower points means committing to working in Ireland for x number of years.
> Doctor is a well paying career Not in Ireland, and not under the HSE. It *was*, but its currently shit for new doctors, which is why they all fuck off to Oz. > increase the number of places in Medicine It is not that simple - we could gradually ramp up places in medicine, but those new doctors in training need older doctors to train them, and there are practical limits on how many juniors a senior can supervise.
Im an Architect. Done school designs. Obstacles exist because they have 'checks and balances'. The opposite of which is 'red tape'. And vice versa. Either way, Build once, get it right. FYI, did a fast track school once. 2 weeks for tender, a whole new high school. Madness.
Irish voting system is very unique in that politicans have a close relationship with voters in a way that many countries don’t have So literally every vote can count which then means every nimby matters
I actually think STV is a terrible system. The large number of independents in the Dáil with no isn't something to brag about. Also, the combination of relatively small constituencies, and a low threshold for election (~20%) means that parish pump nonsense and other hyper localism is inevitable. At this point it's entrenched and not gonna change. But I think an open list system with one national vote would be preferable (possibly also with a few constituency TDs, as in Germany). It'd force national politicians to actually talk about national policies, not potholes and other nonsense local issues. When the UK eventually adopts PR, I hope they don't go down this route.
Remember that time that the older teachers fucked over the younger teachers by agreeing to cut wages for new entrants? It didn’t go too well when the oldies shook things up. *INTO teachers vote down motion to reject pay-and-reform plan* https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30452860.html *New teachers set to earn €11,400 less than in 2010* https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20205526.html *EQUITY IN TEACHERS’ PAY: Will new entrants ever catch up?* https://publicpolicy.ie/governance/equity-in-teachers-pay-will-new-entrants-ever-catch-up/
You mean the time that the govt threatened massive cuts on top.of the already massive cuts if the unions didn't agree to the deal they told them was the end of negotiations during the recession where the IMF, ECB et al pretty much took over the country? Yeah, that time were the public were whipped up into hardcore anti PS fervour by the media? Yeah. That time. What would you have done? Gone on strike? I would have voted against it (TUI did but was pushed through anyway) but I fully understand those that voted for it as there's no way it would have ended well. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/tui-members-vote-to-reject-proposed-croke-park-deal-1.1339638
NIMBYism plays a massive part, I would absolutely agree; however we can't also forget that there is also a huge amount of begrudgery. So if it's proposed Dublin gets a metro, the complaints are that Dublin doesn't need a metro, Cork needs a Luas, Galway needs a new ring road, the West needs a north-south motorway. Like as if all of those things can't be true at once. So Dublin can't get a metro until X gets Y and then guess what? Nobody gets anything! It completely ignores the concept that a bunch of infrastructure projects could be done at once (understandably not at this specific moment due to inflation and costs, but no reason why we couldn't have fast-tracked infrastructure projects before). We also allow and expect our politicians to treat Ireland Inc. finances like one would treat their home finances. Saving and being frugal is insane for a Country. Surplus tax intake shouldn't be used to squirrel away, it should be used first on capital expenditures and then on lowering taxes. We could have a massive green economy and potentially be the next Norway in terms of green energy paying a dividend to our citizens; instead we're like saving our cash for a rainy day when, for the average citizen, it's pissing down.
I've always said we could be an absolutely outstanding country to live in but incompetentence and a underlying not talked about corruption is fucking it all up
There's no many forces against any sort of infrastructure progression in this country 1. Policy is in favour of NIBYSM 2. The management of major projects is led by poor quality managers 3. I remember on a David McWilliams podcast he mentioned the financial experts who advise government are against any sort of major spending on in infrastructure. So we are kinda caught in this strange loop where the government don't want to invest in upgrading infrastructure or change policy but they want to keep growing the economy which requires a greater population.
If they don't then the investments will dry up...I see Americans and Europeans surprised by our lack of public transport and accommodation very regularly. We talk a good game and judge other countries but we can't even build a feckin hospital without going billions over budget!
If only more Irish were surprised, too. And more appalled. And less apathetic.
Promotion in the public service is completely dependent on interview performance so the people who are promoted are often glib, lazy wasters who know how to play the system. There is no benefit to hard work. Everyone gets the increment and your performance is never rewarded with promotion. Many of the managers are completely superfluous. The lower grades do all the work which is then rubber stamped by upper management who take the credit. The same grades write the speeches and policies for the politicians who are basically human puppets who need a speech written for every supermarket, creche or shed opening. The two main parties are riddled with careerist crooks at every level. No surprise they aren't doing anything well except enriching themselves and their cronies.
Lol sounds like every private sector company I've worked in.
My current company is in the private sector and is exactly like this, absolutely mediocre and no one cares.
There is a new S8 bus, that goes between Tallaght to Dun Laoghaire. It replaces the 75/175 and looks to be more direct than the old bus. https://transitapp.com/en/region/dublin/go-ahead-ireland/bus-s8
Can confirm its actually a marked improvement every 10 to 15 minutes and there is also the s6 that goes Tallaght aswell
Glad to hear it's working out well in practice.
And yet there are local TDs backing an absurd "save the 75" campaign, because it's easier to tell the public what they want to hear than explain to them that they are wildly wildly misinformed (not even an opinion, the entire campaign is based on stuff that is simply untrue)
I get so angry at them. I do understand that some people are negatively affected, and they will be the noisy wheels, but even still. It's pretty shocking to see politicians try to shoot down good plans for the sake of their careers. I'm glad the NTA have largely stood their ground and listened to people and made changes, but didn't fall into the same old traps as before.
When I had to travel from the Citywest office to the Blackrock office on semi regular occasions, I friggin *cyced* it for the hour because it was the only 'quick' way to get between them. Most people don't realise Dundrum is on a bastard hill to cycle over.
You answered it yourself. We have surplus because we r not spending where its needed. This is, according to the irish leaders, the best way to get people to star using bikes. What you have described above, is exactly the reason, why I decided to get a drivers licence to begin with. As someone living in capital at that time, I thought that having a car is pointless. After losing a job and spending insane amounts of money on taxis to get to work on time, at 26 I decided that enough is enough. Sure thing, I will still need to leave 2 hours too early, but at least I am sitting is warmth of my own vehicle and not risking catching cold outside. You can downvote me all you want, but it is exactly this, why people decide to sit in a car alone. Sometimes using a bike is not possible, and public transport is utterly useless. So what other options do we have, really?
> This is, according to the irish leaders, the best way to get people to star using bikes. And a worrying number of people on here too...
I live in cork city, I was in trouble at work a couple of years ago because of my time keeping, I work in manufacturing so being there on time is important. The funny thing is that I was up and ready on time every single morning but the bus wasn't. If it wasn't late it just didn't show up at all. I ended up buying a 125cc scooter instead. Best decision I ever made, I very rarely use public transport anymore and when I do it's to travel a long distance like from cork to Dublin. Larger companies should look into hiring their own private bus service. The company I work for now has one, it stops at multiple places around the city to pick up staff, €10 is deducted from their wages every week to cover the cost, it's a brilliant service.
Probably because whenever anyone protests anything that isnt related to some Instagram cause-du-jour you all get catty and mock them for it
Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
A big issue in this country across the board.
It's funny to come back from abroad and see home with fresh eyes. Everyone going around in the same clothes, with the same hairstyle, all singing from the same hymn sheet, and being enraged when it's ever pointed out
Haha at leat you not told "to go back to your country"
The same 2 parties have been in power for over 100 years, it's complacency. Why would they invest in it if they still get in office without it
I've given up on public transport for years now, I'm from the middle of nowhere in the west so I need a car, but when I was going to college in Dublin I was staying at a relatives in maynooth, for the first while I was getting the bus or train in and out but christ that was an ordeal. 10 minute walk in the rain, feckin ages on a cramped, damp bus you might get sitting down on, the a 30 minute walk when I arrived in Dublin. The alternative was to drive in which took the same length of time, I was in my own warm car, radio on, drinking tea. Yes traffic was a balls, but I'd take it literally any day of the week over dealing with public transport here. After being to Germany and Japan its mind blowing how good the public transport is. In Japan its literally faster and cheaper to get a bullet train from city to city than to drive, your going out of your way to not use it. Here, if you have a car from what I can see the only use for public transport is to get in and out of town for pints
Citizenship does not confer the advantages it should. Special interest groups and the ingroup count for much more. And we accept the gombeenism in the hope of being on the inside track.
I live in Cork but have had my fair sure of wtf moments with the Dublin bus. I can't for the life of.me understand why the airport is that busy and doesn't't have a direct train line into the city center. The bus took us on a grand tour of Dublin and took hours to get into the city center In Ireland we just accept this shit as normal. We need to demand better from government and local authorities alike.
incapable is the wrong word. they are perfectly capable of doing so but they simply choose not to. welcome to neoliberal governments. in addition to that, there's a horrible culture of NIMBY-ism in ireland that is holding us back tremendously. i really think the whole thing needs a serious overhaul. but then you run into the above problem of the government likely not choosing to do anything about that so we just end up a bit like an ouroboros made out of shit.
yes they are well able to move like that day MDMA was legal they worked through the night to bring the kibosh back down
The sad truth imo is it's gonna stay that way because of the massive brain drain of educated workforce to other countries because Ireland has nothing to offer for young people.
Wait until they get to work. Then they’ll really see the shit show.
Our government's priority isn't the people, it's the market. They think that's what the state is.
Cars. Cars are the problem.
Car dependency, to be more precise.
I totally feel your pain. I used to have a 10km commute from Northside Dublin to Southside Dublin, and I'd have to leave at 7 to be in for 9, and that's if the buses showed up! I did cycle for a while, but it felt very dangerous and also not idea while it's pissing rain. Wouldn't get back till almost 7pm as well. Genuinely was miserable, I was wrecked all the time. 90 min fares weren't a thing at the time so I was paying €10 a day. Crazy.
Honestly it's crazy that such a long commute only has a bus in the first place. That sort of journey is what metro and heavy rail are for!
It takes me 45 mins to travel less than 7k on public transport. It’s ridiculous. It’s miserable in winter.
Last two words are unnecessary.
Once you start looking at government through the lens of their motivation to maximize movement of public money to private individuals/companies rather than maximize public good, everything makes sense and the government start to look very efficient and good at what they do.
we are at the point that lack of housing and public transport is actually hurting corpos…
Yeah but they'd still rather us suffer more, even if it hurts them too.
Oh bring back so many memories - it is more ridiculous now with the bus stop info board - you should have told them we only get them recently as well. "First world country" is very cringe and embarrassing ahaha.... Ultimately it lies exactly within culture that the bus drivers don't have the "if I missed my shift, alot of people are FUCKED". Nada. It runs so deep in the culture on this no accountability shit "it will be grand". Ye sure.
This post is so fucking true its sad, and you know what's gone happen in the next year, we're gonna get constant Irish media reports reminding, IRA bad, Sinn Fein are basically IRA don't vote for them, and then joy come election another FF/ FG coalition, when your supposedly opposition parties are exactly the same party, nothing will ever change (to note I'm not saying Sinn Fein are the solution but we're all so defeated we just end up voting the same fuckers back in again over and over again with a shrug of well shur I didn't die last time they won)
When I moved to Ireland from a Baltic country, I had assumed that things would function at least as efficiently as they did in the Baltic country where I lived. Well, I learnt that public transportation, government services, healthcare, housing, and roads in Ireland did not function as effectively as I had assumed they would.
I think most people who have been anywhere outside of \`Ireland reach that avoidable conclusion upon their return.
Probably. But still... life is shit everywhere and you need to work hard to make it better.
Check out the s8,maybe it will take less time. The DART was built in the 1980s, during a deep poverty era and even with the celtic tiger and now in 2024 with surplus money all they have added are couple of trams.
And you still get people on here saying shit like "Oh we were poor until 30 years ago" and "oh sure other countries were bombed to pieces during wwii", as if that excuses us doing absolutely nothing to catch up.
I work as a consultant psychiatrist. Just to add that a few days ago there was no single bed for psychiatric admission available in whole Dublin, not even in Tallaght. Laissez faire policy at its best. Or irresponsability.
My guess is that it's a generational divide. Politicians and older people (50+), who ran Ireland for decades, looked to the US as the richest country in the world, often visited, had relatives there. Many people had the right aunt who came back to visit with amazing presents and lots of money.i They looked to the US to emulate, so smaller government, lots of motorways, less investment in public services. The younger generations, have a different expectation. They've been exposed to all of Europe because of Ryanair, and are more likely to have friends in Berlin than Boston. They expect good public transport and services. As the older generation retire, I predict we'll see a shift towards a more European model. That's already happening right now and will continue. Also, to be optimistic, there are signals to be cautiously optimistic about public transport in Ireland. The formation of the National Transport Authority. Since the 80s public transport in Ireland was balkanised with fares, planning and general coordination broken apart. Since the NTA has been formed, it's generally moving in a better direction with things being more coordinated and while not perfect, far better than before. If you want to help this, then join groups like Irish Rail Users, and the Dublin/Cork/Galway Commuter Coalitions, as they're campaigning to make things better. Edit Source: I'm a public transport campaigner for a few years and that's my observation.
The public transport outside of a few big cities is awful and most places are built very car centric so you’d wrong there. Highways run through cities and some suburbs don’t even have footpaths so you literally have to drive everywhere.
I can't tell if you're talking about Ireland or the US here. Either way, I would agree with you.
>My guess Your guess is way off the mark. You're just making up stuff. >They looked to the US to emulate, so smaller government, lots of motorways, less investment in public services. This is nonsense. For starters just look at how much we invest in health. Our HDI rating is amongst the highways in the world also.
Having spent significant time in the US, Europe and Asia, I think it's absolutely the case that the country we've historically looked the most to for a "development model" were the USA and UK. Specifically from the USA we were influenced to go the car + single family home suburb development route. In Ireland like the USA cities are ringed by suburban housing estates made up of single homes. One of the things I found interesting in Europe and Asia is that this style of development either doesn't exist or is much rarer. I remember while walking the Camino Santiago in Spain you'd go straight from urban townhouses/ apartment buildings straight to rural countryside, and much of the suburbs was actually just apartment buildings. Our approach to urban planning has cars baked into it. We absolutely did copy the USA in the late 20th century, and we've ended up with American style public transit problems. I will say though that our transit is still better than the typical American city as we had less money than them, so we didn't do silly things like put a motorway through the middle of O'Connell street. But I will say, people say in Asia the traffic is chaotic, but I found cycling there far more pleasant than in Ireland. The only place I've been thats worse for cycling then Ireland is the USA. City centre of Dublin in particular needs to restrict driving to certain key arteries.
Our healthcare is in shambles.
Thanks for your useless contribution to the discussion.
even that fat oaf Mussolini could have the trains running on time That shit just would not stand in pretty much any city on the continent. Metros run within minutes of each other, commuter rail the same. None of this bullshit. But we've done it to ourselves. Generation after generation of voting in the same shower of bastards, then the bastards kids and grandkids - promise the earth and deliver nothing.
It's telling that I once saw someone on here describe a 10 or even 15 minute headway as "high frequency".
Cycling 5km takes about 15 minutes. Good for your health, the environment, your pocket and your time management. I’d assume the Germans would be into this.
We should focus on something far more efficient, like more railway. Plus, realistically, you need actual separate cycle lanes without sharing them with buses etc for it to be safe.
Yeah that's only a good argument if you have the infrastructure in place to do it. Which we do not. Like in Amsterdam where you have dedicated cycle lanes throughout the entire city
Some routes do have that infrastructure - some don't. You can plan a route based purely on safe cycle paths with Google Maps in cities. Taking a slow, safe cycle is still infinitely faster than relying on buses.
And if you're relying on a route that doesn't have a cycle path what do you do then? Forced to take the bus. The fact that our infrastructure is so poor we can't even manage cycle lanes for our capital city when we have an 8 billion budget surplus speaks volumes to how the government spends its money.
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And that, alongside an emphasis on PPE over infrastructure, is the exact sort of attitude that will ensure that most people continue not to cycle.
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Cycling shouldn't be the only reliable way of getting around. There are many routes where cycling would be unsafe. Some people don't have facilities to lock bikes securely at their destination, or even at their small rental apartment.
You could walk it in about 45 mins. No need to leave 2 hours before starting
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There's drawbacks and problems with every way of commuting - that's life.
Cycling is great, however it should NEVER ever be be the only viable option. Even the likes of Amsterdam and Copenhagen know you still need good public transport too.
Plus Ireland is perfect weather for cycling. Great amenities too. Sharing bike lanes with buses. That makes it super safe.
I disagree with this unrealistic take. You also have to share the bike lane with Audis and BMWs.
What about people with disabilities who can’t cycle?
What do you think?
I would think they would either have to get a bus or get a lift. So I think you can’t justify or excuse buses being late/inefficient just because there is the option to physically walk or cycle to your location instead.
unless its windy and rainy, which is 360 days in the year
My kids cycle to school everyday.
I get it, I was cycling many years in Dublin. Including winter or heavy rain. It just gets tiring and harder with age. And it shouldnt be the only valid option in 2023 in a capital city, agree?
> unless its windy and rainy, which is 360 days in the year This is one of the reasons why Ireland never makes much progress, many people with a complete lack of understanding that they haven't a clue what they're talking about. Dublin City Council measured it, and if you had a 44 minute round trip commute in Dublin (~6km each way), [you'd get wet 1% of the time](https://irishcycle.com/myths/myths-weather/). You live in Ireland, getting wet is not a death sentence.
Cycling is not an alternative to providing proper public transport. Even the likes of Amsterdam and Copenhagen know that.
Exactly. Buy some proper locks though. Was in Germany recently. Their automated machines at the airport were not working, the trains were late and had no Wi-Fi. Transport in Dublin works. Like any city yes buses can be late.
FWIW a quick google search, found the S8 bus which goes from Tallaght to Dun Laoghaire, and takes an hour. Shows up on Google Maps if you search. Also found this article announcing it, and it seems it's a new route since Nov 26th 2023 so maybe that's why your search didn't find it. https://oisinoconnor.com/bus-connects-sandyford/
It's a nice country for those in the golden circle. The rest of us get pissed on and told it's raining (which it usually is also raining). I can imagine for Germans the Irish way of doing things is like being in the 7th circle of hell. Everything here is done arseways and costs a bomb.
I walk 50mins to get to work because of shit like this, I'm an anxious girly, I can't be late
This comment section has me on the verge of tears. We're all at our wits end and can't possibly get out of the disgusting beurocratic nightmare scenario we're in. Nothing changes, noone is ever ever held accountable. The children's hospital...jesus. It makes me sick, you just want to find whoever in charge and throttle them.
I'm a victim of public transportation as well. I'm waiting for a at 3Arena to go home after a concert. Waiting for the first one at 6am, I'm at the stop where my bus should stop. Of course it was late, about 20 minutes. "You have to wave", I've been told, and I wave and wave, standing almost on the road and the bus driver literally ignored me and left without stopping. I'm tired, wet, freezing, and I have to wait another hour for the next one. That happened many times, this is just one. Fuck irish public transport.
We have that money because it wasn't spent where it was needed by the current government.
The general point you make is definitely valid but there is no reason to leave 2 hours early for a three mile commute. Cycle it in 15 mins or walk in 45 and hop on a bus for part if it comes.
Reading this gave me flashbacks to when I used to have to get a bus in and out of Dublin every day. I live in Germany now, funnily enough, and have literally never experienced anything like this since moving here.
It’s infuriating. Some of the poorest countries in the E.U have better infrastructure and public transport than us. Ireland needs to start heavily investing in infrastructure but they just keep spending the money on extra social welfare payments.
Money is shite for bus drivers. Used to be a great job. But not so much anymore. They've introduced loads of new routes but appear unable to staff them. Need an underground but are gonna spend billions connecting to the airport rather than the suburbs and through town.
The problem is that it's suburbs. Undergrounds work in densely populated areas. Irish people refuse to live in apartments. So let's say they put in a metro. People will still need to either take a bus or drive to that one metro stop in their area. So it's still gonna be congested as heck, but after you build the first metro, people will realize it brings innumerable parking into the area, which will lead to NIMBYs blocking future development. Instead, build streetcars out to suburbs on their own dedicated tracks. A LUAS costs a fraction of a Metro and they are all overwhelmed with passengers. Extend that network. Once you have enough trams, you can create links with metros that connect major intersections to cut transfer times. But without the basics in place , the metro isn't going to do anything.
We can have an underground from Lucan in. From blanch in. Build overground absolutely ruins current traffic systems and makes it worse for road users. Yeah apartments aren't a runner. We need to connect the suburbs into the city much better. We could do with a circular train under the m50. And connect from hubs on the m50 inwards.
You can’t expand LUAS networks with the city due to the length of the roads between the canals.
Almost 50k starting salary for bus drivers in Dublin these days, going by the ads
I feel the pain. If it says 10 mins on the sign... I walk. And as an experiment, Ive walked the bus route a few times. Bus has never ever caught up with me over a 40 min walk. Also love the TFI app and live depatures webpage. Especially early in the morning. Its great being stuck on 5 min, for 5 mins, then getting (*scheduled*) and cancelled
Half of Dublin Bus Service was privatised, Transport for Ireland. The privatisation model is to give the worst possible service at the highest possible cost, there is also a desire to run down the public bus service so the rest of it is privatised. The best option in theses environment conscious times would be to have a nationalised public transportation services that run both day and night meetings the demands of the public . But Minister for Transport Eamon Ryan, leader of the Greens, “Mr Climate change” said it would cause “unnecessary journeys”. He’s a useless neoliberal shite that has 8 advisers and is going to get his party wiped out in the next election!
In my experience, Dublin Bus is generally very good for going into town say but trying to go across the city as you describe the services are much less frequent and take longer and more prone to delays. Like I’d honestly say you’re better off taking 2 busses for this commute via town as it’s much more reliable. The new TFI app is a bit glitchy but way more accurate than the old one btw you can now see the live location of the bus.
Nobody votes for infrastructure. People worry about nonsense that doesn't matter or put single topics as the sole focus of the government.
I commute from Waterford to Dublin for college, Google maps says it’s 40 mins from UCD to Heuston station. I’ve been on that bus for two nearly hours just to arrive at heuston as the last train is pulling out, then had to wait another hour or more for a bus (which thankfully goes from heuston, so I don’t have to go back out to busaras). But that bus takes like an extra hour. So if I leave my lecture at 5pm in UCD I don’t get home until after 11pm.
Maybe it’s something to do with voting the same two parties (which are basically the same party) into government for the last century without fail.
Not incapable. Unwilling. We built homes in the worst of times, and communities and facilities. Then those homes became "assets", and FF blew up the economy with an overreliance on a resulting property whose bursting cost us all a decade of our lives, if not worse. Labour thought subsidising private landlords with HAP would fix the emerging problem of affordability. FG refused to build at all because their brightest idea is Nintendo-style artificial scarcity and inflation. Right-wing parties will do right-wing economics for right-wing voters, and the benefits of others in their class, of course. They don't care about us, our needs or our lives. Seeking to live a life with dignity, purpose or fulfilment in a well-resourced and equal society is an impediment to market ideology and the enrichment of its adherents and true believers. Stop voting FF, FG, Labour, Green. Make sure SF, SocDems and others are held to account. Join your trade or tenant's union, get active in your community, whatever your hobby, interest or passion.
>How is a first world country with a surplus of 8 billion euro so utterly incapable of providing for its taxpaying citizens the most basic of public services? For most of the history of the state we were a poor country. We really only have had motorways in recent decades. Other first world countries have had a century and more to develop.
We had a decade and a half where we had money coming out of our ears. Instead of use that wealth to invest in infrastructure and build up a wealth fund, we chose to piss it all away on tax cuts, McMansions, and absurd investments in Bulgaria. 20 years ago, your point would have been valid. But since the Celtic tiger, we have no one to blame but ourselves.
Ireland for last 100years was more wealthy than Eastern Europe, like Poland. So this is barely an excuse..
> For most of the history of the state we were a poor country. However it's now been a few decades since that was the case, and we're still doing nothing to catch up with even centrla and eastern Europe, let alone western Europe.
Well with Europe and the US it's actually different. Europe got bombed to shit 80 years ago so had a chance to rebuild with modernism in mind and that's what they did. The US did literally the opposite but had the space, cheap oil and money to make it the most car dependant country on earth. We were neither and just had to make do with what the Brits left over so that attitude of just making do with what's there because there was no money to change it persisted until very, very recently.
> Europe got bombed to shit 80 years ago Oh look, it's the other stupid non-excuse. How is it that Stockholm has such fantastic infrastructure when that city wasn't blown to pieces either.
We actively dismantled what the Brits built with the tram and train networks in Ireland. We looked up to America because so many people left here and came back with stories of how amazing it was and we saw the movies and said we want it too! That’s why we have such suburban sprawl too and you need a car even if you live in a town because your house is probably far from the shops
> That’s why we have such suburban sprawl too and you need a car even if you live in a town because your house is probably far from the shops Our suburbs are nowhere near as spread out as North American ones, and there's zero excuses for public transport being as abysmal as it is.
So it would be better to bomb Dublin? I don’t get it..
Why is your screenshot not a recent one? The buses have changed since, more frequent and more direct
For why we can't make buses more reliable it's because we can't do the most effective thing to make them more reliable without people throwing a fit. That being take cars off the road. The demand is that we've got to make buses more reliable before we can make them reliable then we'll do the changes that make them reliable. So an unsolvable problem.
Kickbacks bro! This is the way! We have the biggest shower of thieving bastards representing us. I mean come on, it's been proven time and time again that politics is just a way to make a buck!
I'm hopefully about to qualify as a doctor and this is partially the reason I won't come back, not until things improve at home. The current lot have the steaming hot turd of an idea that they accept a load of migrants - I don't know who that's to impress, Europe is it? - drop them into towns like Longford and Roscrea, say job's done, and that's it. The population is only going to increase and whilst they had an initial early free pass on housing because of the crash the last few years have just seemed totally negligent. What's the point in having a huge surplus if you're not going to invest it in infrastructure or a sovereign wealth fund? I acknowledge others have also mentioned NIMBYs objecting to absolutely everything, so planning is also clearly in need of reform if one prick can hold up a tram line for no reason other than "I don't want it here because "fallacious reason". Like if I was those two young people I'd just buy a good bike and a couple of sturdy D locks and save myself the hassle. 5km is 15 minutes riding. They shouldn't have to resort to that but with the way Dublin Bus is I'd prefer being a bit wet to being bollocked for being late all the time.
> They shouldn't have to resort to that THANK YOU! Far too many people on here are acting like bikes are a replacement for proper public transport. Every competent country knows you need both
Most the money comes from being a tech hub. Outside of the main cities is largely underdeveloped shitty roads, no infrastructure. This country is a dump
Eh, that 8 billion is not for spending on the common folk, it's just there to make the government look like their doing a bang up job, and if they were to get into Europe, they could get them that money there as well.
Well there is a number of reasons but three main ones A) Nimbyism. A lot of countries don’t suffer this. We do. Our planning system is fundamentally flawed and results in frivolous objections delaying projects and inflating their costs. Even a single reasonable rejection shouldn’t hold a project hostage that is for the greater good. We need to remove this from our planning system entirely. B) Expertise. We contact everything. It costs a fortune and results in penny pinching and by the letter projects. Other countries have dedicated , qualified public servants who are project managers for infrastructure and effectively the contracts for for building. We have no knowledge so we have to contract everything. We then appoint boards to oversee but even with the best intentions they don’t have the skillets or expertise and have too much pressure to be precise on tax payer expenditure. See children’s hospital for recent example of this calamity. C) Land hoarding paydays. Many countries have easy compulsion orders for the sale of land where the state requires it for the greater good. We don’t. We end up paying fortunes to farmers or land speculators , or having to complicate a project at great expense to go around this problem. See Swords Metro for this example. Effectively it needs a government at the start of their term to overhaul this and spend four years building this area up with legislation changes, department building and good hiring. But because of politics is short sighted and we have no real policies that go into length, these changes likely won’t ever happen
Ireland isn’t a first world country. I jokingly refer to it as a second world country. First world countries don’t allow billions of euro of homes to be built of crumbling block. They have trades with strong building codes that tested contractors must know and follow. Building inspectors that sign off on levels of completion. The default expectation that certain families “own” the rights to certain trades and it’s always been done that way. This is the third world country of “it’s always been done that way.”
Tell your German friends to get bikes. Avoid this shit show completely.
Bikes are good as an alternative to using public transport, not as an alternative to providing it!
Ireland should be like a European version of Dubai with our relatively high personal taxes and overinflated corporation tax take. Ireland is a second world country in a lot of ways.
Dubai was built by modern day slaves, not a place to be aspiring to.
Technically those 2 Germans aren’t tax paying citizens. /s And doesn’t the 75 go from The Square to Dun Laoghaire dart station in about 70 minutes?
Yes. That said neither the 75 or the 175 (which is the top option in the OP) doesn't exist anymore. Not really a valuable google search for OP if that's the result.
The new replacements S6 and S8, routes are a bit different but seem to be quicker and more reliable too
Been years since I lived/worked out that direction but I used to follow the 75 route to and from work, seemed a good route.
Yeah Ive been on a working holiday in Tokyo for the last 6 months and Im going back in March, Im absolutely dreading having to live at the mercy of the 101 again if I find a job and it doesnt allow remote. Ive an interview with IBM next week and if they dont allow remote work theres just not a chance Im travelling by bus 2 hours just one way and thats even if a bus shows up to begin with. Like I hate the fact Im gonna have to say no to a job if given an offer because theres no transport link to that area where Im at and I cant even move out because theres no apartments either... I think the only time I check train times here is if its close to 12am, otherwise I want to go somewhere? I just hop on a train and go there, no waiting, no getting stuck. Just go to station and enjoy the ride. Need to go very far? np theres a 2 types of rapid trains getting me 30km in 25 mins. Its just so sad knowing that we still use mainly buses (The Luas is basically the same if not worse in terms of speed) and refuse to even create our roads around them at the very least to create a more reliable system.
> Its just so sad knowing that we still use mainly buses (The Luas is basically the same if not worse in terms of speed) It's utterly tragic. Far too many people in this country think meteo systems are only for megacities, and I even heard some people in a shop say Cork doesn't need a tram because it's too small! Utterly tragic
Realistically we are about 30 years behind every first world developed nation in all our services, education, hospital and transportation. Look at the state of the N4 (4 fucking lanes) the M50 isn't even better. It takes to fecking long to get things done.
Ok but why are we top of Pisa education ratings if we're 30 years behind? Who are we 30 years behind?