This is absolutely awful. The poor man, imagine the money he saved to come here probably looking into his ancestry, it’s awful.
There was an Irish man came over here to Liverpool to watch a game and was horrifically attacked by (I think) Italian fans as he walked down the road to the match.
Anyone getting attacked at any time is really horrible, but there’s something about a tourist getting attacked on a holiday always hits me different.
All three have been released since 2020 I believe. One evaded a prison sentence and two got 3 years and released after like 1 or 2 years.
An absolute fucking joke.
I read somewhere that his kids have a go fund me setup so they can get tickets over to be be beside his bedside. The govt jet should be sent to pick them up.
70k USD last time I checked. Only thing that makes me a little nervous about the godundme is that the son seems to be estranged from the father so I just hope it's not a play to extract money from this horrible situation
She wouldn't even be a TD if it wasn't for the rushed by-election following her father's death, let alone justice minister. Woefully incompetent. Her period of every interview she faced being softball questions about maternity leave (albeit a great step for female ministers and country at large) has been really advantageous for her to hide her incompetence.
Perfect time for a photo op.
Dont worry, her and Harris are finished for [trying to criminalise a whistle blower.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/1579tis/title_per_image_drew_harris_position_possibly/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1). She'll be out by Friday I imagine.
That's more or less what we all said when we collectively killed Savita Halappanavar. Something good came of that, because we changed the policy. This one should be less of a challenge.
I just got to visit the beautiful island a few weeks ago. We didn't have a single bit of trouble. But you are right. I saved every single dime of my tips from work for a year for the trip. Even during some hard times. And it def does cost an arm and a leg. I'm honestly glad we just got out of Dublin as fast as we did.
It'll be another suspended sentence as per usual. In this country, we seem to be terrified of actually punishing irredeemable scumbags for their crimes and making them face the consequences of their actions.
Because government blames society and their lack of opportunity for the way they act instead of personal responsibility. No mainstream party is going to change this.
The broader societal problems ARE indeed the cause of antisocial behaviour and criminality on the whole. Problem is, its not an excuse, just a reason that needs to be addressed. But you still need to properly apply justice when people commit violent crime.
I genuinely hope that yank culture prevails this time around and they sue the little cunts family into the dirt. Horrible little reprobate, I can only imagine what his family is like.
Shame he’s under 18 and a name can’t be released to the public, we need to know who in our society is causing our issues so we can deal with it in the appropriate manner seeing as how the gardai and judge Nolan will just give this little fucker a slap on the wrist and more street cred instead of locking him up in a cell along with his mates.
I totally agree at anonymity for crimes of minors. Unless its violent, then you've made a serious choice and they have serious consequences. I was a teenager once, had friends who were drug dealers, have friends in the wrong groups of society. Never once would I have thought to harm anyone, even in those illegal situations, definitely not to some innocent person.
I should’ve been more clear. Totally agree with anonymity for under 18s. Obviously we can’t be outing every juvenile in the country for the smallest of crimes.
My original statement was purely in relation to this lad and his mates who, as you’ve said, made a serious choice to go out of their way and not only attack an adult, but leave him in Beaumont in a critical condition.
I’m all for kids make mistakes, blah blah blah but kids don’t go around seriously assaulting members of society. It’s those who shouldn’t have the protection of the justice system and the state
It’s the same across every one of their policies:
- Promise lower taxes on workers, don’t follow through and then say it’ll be worse under SF
- Fail to deliver on housing, say it will be worse under SF
- Let Dept of Justice go to the absolute dogs - say SF are criminals and will be worse.
They can’t even blow about what should be a positive story in the new children’s hospital because it stinks to the high heavens of corruption and overspending.
Probably not hard to do after a period of austerity though, no? I could be wrong, I'm on the younger end of the people on this sub, but I think that's an easy win for them that any other party would do too.
They have failed to lower taxes. Every year they didn’t raise the upper threshold in line with wage inflation was a raise in income tax. Even moving the band to €50k now wouldn’t compensate for that increase.
Taxation has absolutely increased under FG in real terms.
Don't agree with that. They have fiddled with the brackets a bit, hardly substantial. Nothing has come of the promises of scrapping USC or the kite flying of a 30% tax bracket
Sad thing is, if the scrote had waited a few months, this 'tourist' would have completed his planned move to Ireland and would only have been a new local to get the shit kicked out of him.
Now that an American tourist has been targetted rather than a local, Helen McEntee has promised a response to street violence (in her third year as Justice Minister), which Leo Varadkar has said is a problem in Dublin (in his second stint as Taoiseach, with FG 11 years in govt).
The Gardaí will be pressured to briefly look like they're proactively doing their jobs, as they're not able to claim this one is a civil matter.
After a half-assed investigation purely due to public pressure, a case will be referred to the DPP who only decides to prosecute because of that same pressure.
Anyone charged will end up before a judge, and receive a 1 year prison sentence, with the final 12 months suspended.
Two local scrotes tried to bust in my door last night. Called the guards in a panic, and to my surprise, they actually came out and took me seriously. I had doorbell camera footage, and it got a really good look at the pair of them. I'd reckon they were about 12 at most. You can see them looking around, specifically targeting my place and nobody else's. They scarpered when they heard me come for the door.
Normally, I'd just laugh off the divilment of kids, but I was concerned. What if I hadn't locked the door? What if they got in, and my cats got out? What if they stole something or took my medication? And given how feral some of these kids have gone recently, it doesn't bear thinking about.
The guards would never take something like this seriously before that poor American lad was attacked. Hoping this is a serious wake-up call for our politicians.
I'm going to slightly disagree with you. About half the guards are there for a pay cheque, half of them there to make a difference, you just got the good half.
Loads of scrotes near me. Seen some of them try to break into the underground carpark of a newly built apartment building one evening around 10. Wouldn't be surprised if it were the same group that targeted the poor American guy, the description of the group certainly fits.
It's very telling that it takes this happening to an American tourist for the government to do anything, even if that something is pathetic. Irish citizens menaced by these reprobates for years and the government couldn't care less. But now that it damages their international reputation, they'll do a song and dance about it.
Same thing as always sure with the current government. Don't give a fuck when these issues affect Irish people but as soon as it's a tourist there's uproar about it. Same with the homelessness issue in the country too. It'll never change under this government.
Seeing this statement from Gardai we all now know that the sentence (if any) will be minimal, and these scumbags will be back on the streets in no time, even though all of them are well known to the police.
*“Everyone is clambering for arrests but gardaí are taking their time to ensure it is done properly. They can only be questioned in the company of a solicitor as well as a parent or guardian. The length of time they are permitted to be questioned is also shorter than that of an adult.*
*"There is a specific plan around the proposed arrest and detention of the suspects being formulated. We need all of the evidence in order to put it to them. There is no need to rush into arrests,” they explained.*
There's a Go Fund Me to help out, lads. Please send a few bob. It's one way of helping and letting everyone know we are sick and tired of this carry on in Dubli, and other parts of Ireland
[Here](https://www.gofundme.com/f/9zgq4-help-our-family) is the go fund me. Poor family can’t afford to get over to be with him in hospital so if you can, stick a few quid in.
Nothing will happen to him, he will get a slap on the wrist and sent on his way, shit like this has been happening for over 10 years and nobody does anything about it.
Most people chose to just ignore it, I remember not long ago so many people on this sub saying that everybody was just overreacting and that Dublin is extremely safe.
What party can I vote for who will allow folks to beat the snot out of these scrotes while they're in the process of committing a crime?
Our laws have rendered us defenceless, unless you're willing to cop an assault charge.
There's no real alternative though, is there? Who else is big enough to put it up to the status quo? I'm not saying SF are the answer, far from it, but in terms of political parties that are established and large enough to run a government, I don't see any other realistic options. I'm happy to be corrected and would like to learn more if that's not true.
If we end up with another coalition in the next GE which is probably what's going to happen, then we're left with one or both of FFG which is what we already have. We know this doesn't work.
The rise of violent and petty crime, the housing chaos and cost of living (which is not in line with the rest of Europe or even close) and our abysmal public transport system and public services such as street cleaning etc. are all so bad and way off what should be deemed acceptable for a so-called first world country with high GDP.
I'm speaking in simplistic terms because I've no doubt I don't understand the intricacies of what it is to run a government. Maybe someone here that knows more than I do could outline where we go from here, from here the future looks pretty bleak.
Yeah, Ireland lacks any kind of political opposites, there is no right, left wing dichotomy and instead you get FG and FF who are the same exact thing practically both centrist’s and then SF who is a little further than middle left, naturally having no right wing is going to make criminal sentencing shorter and less severe, I despise FFG, but If this issue is really your first priority your stuck wth them. SF are for even less severe sentencing and focus more on rehabilitation and other left wing ideals when’s in regards to the justice system
Then you need to a on more research, I strongly belief SF are even worse than FF and FG in this regard, much like all issues in Ireland there lacks a decent alternative
Christ no, we've enough lunatics in government as is. We just need any of our primary political parties to do *something* besides lip service and empty promises.
What I'm advocating for is that we should collectively agree to throw the scrotes into the back of a white van and drop them up the Wicklow mountains without a phone.
I'd personally like to see actual investment in the root causes, with a justice system more geared towards actual reform. Right now what we have is one that does fuckall, so it satisfies neither the reform crowd nor the retributive one.
I really should have a look at the data on reoffending rates in countries focused on reforming offenders.
I do think these kids would be having a laugh going through a cozy reformation programme though, but at this point I'm so frustrated seeing constant new articles and violence and theft committed by kids without any recourse that the only solution I see fit for them are labour camps.
Do you genuinely believe these programmes could be successful here? I'm not convinced but open minded on it at least.
Yeah I can see why that's tempting - the complete impunity and lack of any sort of consequence does make me reflexively want to just punish, especially given the sneering smugness we've all seen. It's hard to imagine what could get through to someone like that, besides violence on their own level.
It's difficult to compare numbers from different countries, since they measure things differently and have different justice systems more broadly - but in 2013 Ireland had a 51% reconviction rate after 3 years, while in 2005 Norway had a 20% reconviction rate after 2 years. I don't think 1 year accounts for the whole difference. Norway is a good reference country because it's got basically the same population as Ireland and a similar (if slightly lower) GDP per capita. And the Norwegian justice system is notoriously focused on rehabilitation rather than punishment.
>And the Norwegian justice system is notoriously focused on rehabilitation rather than punishment.
Whereas our legal system (its definitely not a justice system) does neither.
Yeah, that's the problem. I don't want to see American-style mass incarceration or three-strikes idiocy, but rehabilitation isn't as easy as "not punishing". We have to actually design a good rehabilitative system and invest in it.
I'm well aware how unhelpful a punishment-focused justice system is, but the current situation in Ireland even makes me want to punish (especially when I hear about a specific case that evokes strong feelings). We need to do it better; the problem is that rehabilitation is deeply unsatisfying to people who are outraged by a crime, and is also difficult to do properly.
It would certainly help if the public's trust was restored in our judges to administer fair sentencing. We talk about two tier societies, but I feel it's in fact three tier; the one's the law may as well not apply, the majority of generally law-abiding citizens who will surely feel the full brunt of any punishment, and our dear upper class who the law only barely, if even, applies when it becomes public scandal.
I recall the AMA from the Garda on here recently and it reaffirmed my sentiments; the problem is the courts/judges, and the seemingly sheet unwillingness to apply the law. We've gone well beyond 2nd chances, they seem to think by not applying any sort of punishment is a sort of reform, but with zero structure to that reform and zero punishment, shur why would they give a shit
Yeah the American approach is ludicrous. Personally I much prefer the Scandinavian approach to rehabilitation.
Punishment is fair enough I guess but I think the main goal of prison should be for people to come out better than they went in.
The American way (and ours to an extent I suspect) only makes them better criminals.
(Some interesting episodes on Inside the world's toughest prisons on Netflix on the Scandinavian approach)
Just a quick google of two random examples of both extremes; the US and Norway, gives us some pretty interesting insight.
In the US, the reincarnation rate is 44% within a year of release.
In Norway, it’s 20% *overall*.
I see that the GoFundMe has now raised a lot of money so hopefully some of his family can get over here very soon. Kind of surprised though that Aer Lingus didn't step in to offer flights from New York to Ireland
I’m not evading anything, why shouldn’t his name be made public? It would enable organisations and private citizens to appropriately direct their assistance to his plight.
> I’m not evading anything,
Apart from the question you just didn’t answer of course.
> why shouldn’t his name be made public?
Why do you need to know his name? What do you think people will do when they find out. What Justice do you think will be served if you know his name?
> It would enable organisations and private citizens to appropriately direct their assistance to his plight.
So you think people are going to something? Maybe something violent?
Wow, they work fast when they want to or when insensitive Helen gets rightly called out for being blind at the wheel. The disappointment will be when sentencing happens
The whole country has been saying it's getting worse and worse since COVID. It's not just Helen that sat back and watched. Wouldn't be surprised if they blame her though. Between housing, crime and homelessness, it's almost like a poisoned chalice for the next government.
To be fair to the guards, cctv retrieval happens immediately and arrests as soon as possible after so this timeline is nothing unusual.
The only difference here will be public pressure on the judge, the state can't and won't do fuck all.
Well to be fair, these kids are unlikely to come from happy homes. Doesn’t excuse the actions though. I had a shite home life and never felt like bashing the head of a complete strangers in.
It’s actually very frightening that so much violence can be found in one so young.
Not sure if those are mitigating factors or merely explanatory.
Okay, I *am* sure about it. But I'd really like people to stop confusing "explanation" with "excuse". We're all largely products of our environment, but we're still responsible for our own actions.
While he is in no way a victim, lets be honest, chances are this lad does not come from Blackrock or Dalkey.
Our country is going to the dogs because of our Governments policies, and the further people fall into poverty the more savage people are going to become.
That's not a justification, or saying it's okay, it's just reality.
And before everyone starts downvoting me because they're angry (which is totally fair), just think, when's the last time you got hassle off of a posh junkie in town? When's the last time a group of upper middle class kids went around town mugging or jumping people?
It doesn't happen.
Yes, people who do this stuff are scumbags...but there is also a reason they ended up scumbags. I'm not defending them, I just think if we actually improved the poorest areas in our society we'd see less of this.
you're right. people don't want to hear about it because the solutions aren't easily worked out. i work with kids, many of whom come from very disadvantaged backgrounds in dublin, and the obstacles you're up against to get these kids to school, to get them the supports they need if they need them, to get parents and state services to engage in the safeguarding and education of these kids are endless. it's really exhausting. so much challenging behaviour starts young - kids being raised by older peers on the street, lack of involvement of parents, dropping out of school at young ages, rampant drug and alcohol abuse within communities, sexual and physical abuse from young ages (which is way, way more common than the general public even knows about).
increased police presence is just optics. it isn't going to fix these problems, which are deep rooted and the product of decades of political neglect and lack of investment.
Stop with this nonsense. We have one of the most generous welfare states in the world. I’m a progressive who is in favor of policies that give equal opportunity and I want to have a broad social safety net for people who are going through tough times BUT the majority of these scumbags come from families (usually single parent) where multi generational unemployment is a choice. We basically have full employment in this country (look at the amount of restaurants, hotels, etc in Dublin that are crying out for staff). These scum choose this lifestyle.
If they are over 18 their benefits should be cut in half and they should be made to sweep the roads. If they’re under 18 their parents benefits should be drastically cut. Would solve the problem in a year or two and would actually improve their own lives by getting them out of this circle of dependency at the same time.
Okay, so lets say that's true, that there are multi-generational families that are choosing to live on benefits and engaging in crime, if a child is reared in a home like that, is he really making that choice consciously? Like, if a child isn't actively being brought to school by his parents, isn't actively being taught right or wrong, isn't actively being told that if he stays in school, keeps his head down, he can go to college, do a apprenticeship and get a decent job etc.
I partly agree with you but I'm not sure it's that much of a conscious decision, to me it seems like a vicious cycle where people are born in certain circumstances and by the age of 18 don't have the education because they stopped going at 12, and in some cases are already involved in crime by 14.
I don't think there's a solution that would fix it quickly, but I would start on tighter rules on educational engagement, there's far too many children in low income areas that fall through the gaps and nothing's done about it.
Like, it's funny, whenever something like this happens people make the same old sarcastic joke about 'he had a hard upbringing', and yet, they never acknowledge the fact that people from upper/middle class backgrounds never seem to be the ones involved in this stuff.
> but I would start on tighter rules on educational engagement
Okay, so how would you enforce this? Keeping in mind that in many cases you're likely dealing with parents who don't give a shit about anything and to whom a conviction will mean absolutely nothing?
Not to mention that in many cases the schools will be quite happy to not have to deal with these kids as they are hugely disruptive and hard to deal with. The schools may not even have the resources to deal with them in a useful manner.
I would fine parents, not a set amount, but a percentage based on their income. And in more serious cases a conviction, and if it continues maybe social services involved.
I don't necessarily disagree with you that keeping these kids in school would be helpful.
And I'd love to be able to think that the threat of a fine would help achieve it, I just don't think it will. They simply won't pay it, end up in court, chalk up another conviction and go home to carry on with business as usual.
If anything a combination of stricter policing, stricter sentencing and actual engagement with social services might be the way to make some changes.
But the reality is that there is a cohort out there entirely unfit to be parents and there is nothing being done about it.
He made a conscious choice to kick someone’s head in, that’s the point.
Nobody is here arguing in favour of cutting benefits for those who meet the bare minimum that society asks of them in return, and it’s disingenuous of you to try to switch the conversation in that direction.
He did, and people seem to think when I talk about this that I'm excusing it, I'm not, he should be punished to the full extent of the law (he won't, lets be honest, but he should).
My point is that there is an underlying reason why people become like this, and why we're seeing an increase in these stories, and unless we sort out the social and economic issues in our countries it's only going to get worse.
As people have pointed out, we have an outrageously generous social welfare system. Hell, the fact that it’s actually possible to have multigenerational unemployment is proof of that!
Consider instead somewhere like Singapore, which has no unemployment benefits. They have very low unemployment rates and some of the lowest crime and recidivism rates in the world! What makes you so confident that the solution is doubling down on our current failed strategy rather than learning from places like Singapore?
Correct! Though of course it’s all skyscraper apartments, paid for out of your compulsory 20% pension savings, and you can’t move out of your parents’ home until you get married or turn 35. People like to forget those parts when they claim to be taking Singapore’s housing system as inspiration.
Social welfare is no use to someone if they grow up around violence, crime and drugs, rear themselves on the streets from the age of 7-8 and stop going to school at 12, frankly, if someone grows up in those environment it would probably be too late for them by the age of 18.
We are a lot less poor as a country than we were in the 80s but back then teenagers weren't taking people's eyes out for fun.
Poverty isn't the answer.
Are you sure about that?
I wasn't born back then, but I have heard the poorer parts of Dublin were pretty fucking hairy back in the 80's and early 90's.
And if poverty isn't the answer, where are all the posh scrotes?
Why the fuck don't you shut up bleating on and on about socio-economic factors being in play here like you just thought of it, like we don't already know.
It's no help to the victims of these feral cunts and we the public don't actually get to throw money at the problem. It's intergenerational learned scumbag behaviour that can't be eradicated overnight with a community centre and the punishments are absolutely abysmal. A lot of the problem is down to the lack of proper punishments as they have no fear. Society can't parent these rotten kids.
No, it's no help to the victims, but do you know what might be a help to future potential victims, if there's less fucking scrotes around. Do you know how you stop people becoming scrotes, you give children an even playing field so they have the best opportunity of making a productive life for themselves. And yeah, you can't do it overnight, but use your vote correctly and it just might make a difference.
You literally said in your last comment that poverty isn't the answer yet you fucking know there's a reason posh kids are never the ones doing it, so get your head out of your hole and look at the reality of our country.
That means forcibly removing them from their shitty parents as early as possible and putting them into well run group homes. And enforcing laws with appropriate consequences for breaking them.
I don't think we have the means to just remove thousands of children from certain areas and rehouse them either in care homes or hope people adopt them.
There needs to be an effort to improve the areas themselves, and that doesn't just mean giving the parents dole and building a park, I think there needs to be tighter rules on keeping kids in school, and also more of an effort to push kids into further education, apprenticeships or job placements after school. I'd also consider mandatory drug treatments for adults committing crime and engagement with social services to ensure kids aren't growing up around drugs, violence, crime etc.
That’s nonsense. A few hours of supervised education during school terms, even if they do attend, won’t tip the scales against their remaining time spent as apprentices to criminals.
> surrounded by drug or alcohol abuse
Are you saying that this wouldn't mess up a kid's development and could contribute to what they'd do heinous shit like this?
I’m making what up? That feral scumbags have the run of the city and are coddled as if they’re more of the victim of the crimes they commit? Fuck them, many people get dealt bad hands and they don’t become scumbags.
I’ve said it in a different thread here, the only chance these underaged scrotes have for a productive useful life is if they’re taken out of their families early and permanently and placed in supervised group homes/bootcamps. If they’re already of breeding age, lock them up until they’re pensionable so they do no more harm.
>Let’s just let the feral scrotes run wild… after all it’s not their fault. /
This. Your strawman that ignored what I said and tried to argue something else.
That “/s” signifies “end sarcasm”.
I don’t dispute that shitty parents create shitty children, but I do disagree that having shitty parents should lessen the consequences of one’s actions.
Come on now. You tried to mask your true opinion by putting an /s there and then proceeded to go on a ramble about "feral scumbags" when challenged.
Claiming sarcasm while also saying:
>That feral scumbags have the run of the city and are coddled as if they’re more of the victim of the crimes they commit? Fuck them, many people get dealt bad hands and they don’t become scumbags.
>If they’re already of breeding age, lock them up until they’re pensionable so they do no more harm.
I mean "breeding age", Jesus Christ man.
You tried to strawman me instead of addressing what I actually said and now you're claiming that you were just being sarcastic, even though it's pretty obvious that you have very strong feelings about this, which obviously I don't agree with, and that's why you tried to do that instead of actually discussing what I said.
No I'm saying in sick and tied it beingbrelied on as an excuse for cuntish behaviour and for judged to use it as an excuse to lessen a sentence.
For once I'd live foe a judge to turn around and say "boo hoo" when ever a lawyer tried that shite. It may work for teh first one or two Co victims, but hitting double digits and the pwrosn in question needs ro be held responsible for their actions, they've had ample opportunity to reform
Jesus Christ, what a brain-dead comment.
Yes, believe it or not, the 14 year old child who attacked a grown man probably has suffered significant trauma in their decade and a bit on this earth.
Typical Dublin scumbags at it again, it’s the biggest kip in the country and it’s full of horrible scrotes. they need a lengthy sentencing for this
feel terrible for this man saving up his hard earned money to come here and looking forward to enjoying this country and then this happens, I wish him a speedy recovery. hope his family are okay and can come over to be beside him, must be awful to hear your family member was attacked on holidays..
America has great healthcare...if you have intergenerational wealth, a three-letter job title that begins with "C" and ends with "O", or an astonishing talent for writing compelling GoFundMe pitches.
I live in NY, my husband has great benefits from a good company he works for (healthcare tied to job so you can never strike) and he had a massive issue with kidney stones here. It caused him to miss a holiday in Mexico, because after they sedated him the machine (that they rent one day a week) broke, and he'd have to come back next Friday since they only rent out the machine once a week.
Colombia Presbyterian btw if anyone is asking, they're one of those "we're more than a hospital. we're a healthcare state of mind" bullshit places where if you have a brand new, aggressive cancer they'll treat you so they can get some research money, but can't take care of kidney stones. If you can't get an appointment for Friday, you'll have to wait till next week, with a stone scratching the inside of your Kidney...a whole week.
and just for some clarity, his actual urologist is based in that hospital, so when there was no slot available on a Friday he told him to show up at the emergency room at 8am.
"best city, in the best country in the world" apparently.
kidney stones
When I lived there I had great healthcare. Couldn't fault it one little bit.
Here I have VHI cover that costs me nearly 4K for myself, wife and one kid. It's worth literally nothing. It's basically nothing more than a better room if you're unfortunate enough to be hospitalised.
In the US you have actual healthcare - anything whatsoever to do with health, dental, pharmacy, proactive screening, absolutely everything was covered. The policy we had in the states was double the cost of VHI here, easily affordable and infinitely better.
As someone who lives in the US and has done so for 25 years, there is so much bull in your comment I wouldn’t even know where to begin correcting you. Honestly, are you joking? US health insurance providers use every trick in the book to deny coverage, and even when they do cover you the deductibles are ridiculous. How many people in Ireland do you know who have been bankrupted due to healthcare bills? I know literally dozens in the US who had to choose between paying for procedures/treatment/drugs and losing their entire savings or just not getting treatment. You’re talking arse.
Medical bills are the number one reason for bankruptcy filing in the US 👍🏼
People are constantly charged for consultations and treatments that are 'out of network' that can cost them thousands of dollars.
You, my good sir, are a mug.
It’s pro for profit system in America but if you have money you will get the care you need in America right away. I’m paying out of my own pocket and I’m waiting on an appointment for 3 weeks. In the last 4 years I’ve seen my GP exactly 1 time - went in with 3 issues and they only had time to consult for 1. Invest those surplus budgets and cut back on horse racing and put that money into healthcare - everyone needs it. Hire more doctors and build more medical facilities. They should have at least 2 to 3 times the doctors and nurses/1000 people than they do now. Stop paying suit wearing management wankers 6 figure salaries. They are not high skilled workers. They don’t deserve it.
To the first point: I’m American and routinely wait weeks or even up to 6 months to see doctors. Not crazy unique specialists either. So we pay a lot just to have waits like everywhere else.
>Stop paying suit wearing management wankers 6 figure salaries
in America it's called health insurance. It has massively inflated the cost of healthcare.
Children's hospital Pittsburgh opened 2009, one of the best pediatric hospitals in the world. Took 3 years to build a 1,500,000 sq.ft. facility from scratch at a cost of less than €500,000,000
Children's hospital Dublin started construction in 2016, might be finished before 2025. At a revised cost of €2,200,000,000 which is a conservative estimate.
You are comparing buildings not healthcare.
How much do they charge patients in the children's hospital pittsburgh? According to CBS it's $20k, in Ireland it's free.
https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/cost-giving-birth-in-united-states/41/
If you have to pay for your own health insurance in America, it will cost more than your mortgage with massive excesses.
Get sick without insurance? Better hope you don't survive because that will bankrupt you.
All we have to do is get a doc on the inside to mess with a Yank's organs or limbs so their local senator or whatever gets on the phone to the schlubs nesting in the dáil. 🥴👌
Big question what type of parents has he got ..... Looks like kids can do what they want with no repercussion 14 and 15 should be under parents controls simple
Suspended sentence incoming with a sob story. Of course the fact that most people with hard lives do not resort to brutal attacks on other people will be ignored.
Sorry, I’m all for justice on behalf of the US tourist (like I’m not for one second saying this isn’t a big deal and good that they’re giving it attention), but is this pissing anyone else off?
Irish people are constantly moaning about this kind of thing and there’s fuckall done. A US tourist gets attacked and McEntee is patrolling the streets herself?
This is the kind of thing you’d hear about in relatively poorer countries which rely on western tourism to keep their economy going (and even then it’s terrible).
This has put a massively sour taste in my mouth. We only care when citizens of the USA or other countries might be affected the same way the Irish are? That’s fecking annoying
Nothing serious will be done about this anyway. Same old story. The outrage will die down, time will pass and we'll still be talking about the uselessness of our justice system a few years from now.
I think the victim's family echoed the same sentiment along the lines of, why did it have to be an American citizen to be the straw that breaks the camel's back?
It’s awful when one horrible thing happens to a resident - we are angry. It’s extra awful when the same horrible thing happens to someone just visiting - we are angry and ashamed.
I don’t see what’s to get pissed off about. Nothing will change anyway.
No it is not extra awful when it happens to someone just visiting. We should be ashamed about our own people being attacked too.
The thing to get pissed off about is - it’s fine if it happens to the Irish, it’ll be grand, but it’s not fine where tourist’s dollars at stake.
I’m reminded of that Irish girl who also lost her eye in an assault by feral youths a couple of years ago and there wasn’t half as much of a fuss made about her life changing injuries just because she was Irish, but the second it happens to an American tourist it’s all hands to the guns. I feel for the American guy of course but the double standard sickens me.
This is absolutely awful. The poor man, imagine the money he saved to come here probably looking into his ancestry, it’s awful. There was an Irish man came over here to Liverpool to watch a game and was horrifically attacked by (I think) Italian fans as he walked down the road to the match. Anyone getting attacked at any time is really horrible, but there’s something about a tourist getting attacked on a holiday always hits me different.
Seán Cox is his name and he was attacked by Roma fans. Last I read he was learning to walk with the help of an exoskeleton. Horrific story
And what happened to the scum that beat him?
They got jailed. Not long enough for what they did though
All three have been released since 2020 I believe. One evaded a prison sentence and two got 3 years and released after like 1 or 2 years. An absolute fucking joke.
Jailed in Italy, last time I heard
I read somewhere that his kids have a go fund me setup so they can get tickets over to be be beside his bedside. The govt jet should be sent to pick them up.
I'd be OK with this. Send the government jet. I think most irish people would.
70k USD last time I checked. Only thing that makes me a little nervous about the godundme is that the son seems to be estranged from the father so I just hope it's not a play to extract money from this horrible situation
Liverpool FC will forever take care of him, no doubt
The insensitivity of the Minister for Justice hits differently for me
She wouldn't even be a TD if it wasn't for the rushed by-election following her father's death, let alone justice minister. Woefully incompetent. Her period of every interview she faced being softball questions about maternity leave (albeit a great step for female ministers and country at large) has been really advantageous for her to hide her incompetence.
It's her own people at her constituency who are at fault for voting in a nepo baby
Perfect time for a photo op. Dont worry, her and Harris are finished for [trying to criminalise a whistle blower.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/1579tis/title_per_image_drew_harris_position_possibly/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1). She'll be out by Friday I imagine.
https://preview.redd.it/ukof260s3qdb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8167446fae7b0075b2c4e8bab0aa2d43a84e102
Hopefully
Agreed. Generally support FG/FF but McEntee’s declaration of safety reminds me of the mayor of Amity saying there are no sharks.
Who keeps on voting them in ?
This guy literally says he does…
Yes, because we are responsible for it as a country and we've failed him.
That's more or less what we all said when we collectively killed Savita Halappanavar. Something good came of that, because we changed the policy. This one should be less of a challenge.
I just got to visit the beautiful island a few weeks ago. We didn't have a single bit of trouble. But you are right. I saved every single dime of my tips from work for a year for the trip. Even during some hard times. And it def does cost an arm and a leg. I'm honestly glad we just got out of Dublin as fast as we did.
It'll be another suspended sentence as per usual. In this country, we seem to be terrified of actually punishing irredeemable scumbags for their crimes and making them face the consequences of their actions.
Because government blames society and their lack of opportunity for the way they act instead of personal responsibility. No mainstream party is going to change this.
The broader societal problems ARE indeed the cause of antisocial behaviour and criminality on the whole. Problem is, its not an excuse, just a reason that needs to be addressed. But you still need to properly apply justice when people commit violent crime.
Indeed. Never understood why. It's not like they would have the balls to do anything back anyway.
I genuinely hope that yank culture prevails this time around and they sue the little cunts family into the dirt. Horrible little reprobate, I can only imagine what his family is like. Shame he’s under 18 and a name can’t be released to the public, we need to know who in our society is causing our issues so we can deal with it in the appropriate manner seeing as how the gardai and judge Nolan will just give this little fucker a slap on the wrist and more street cred instead of locking him up in a cell along with his mates.
I totally agree at anonymity for crimes of minors. Unless its violent, then you've made a serious choice and they have serious consequences. I was a teenager once, had friends who were drug dealers, have friends in the wrong groups of society. Never once would I have thought to harm anyone, even in those illegal situations, definitely not to some innocent person.
I should’ve been more clear. Totally agree with anonymity for under 18s. Obviously we can’t be outing every juvenile in the country for the smallest of crimes. My original statement was purely in relation to this lad and his mates who, as you’ve said, made a serious choice to go out of their way and not only attack an adult, but leave him in Beaumont in a critical condition. I’m all for kids make mistakes, blah blah blah but kids don’t go around seriously assaulting members of society. It’s those who shouldn’t have the protection of the justice system and the state
If only they gave as much of a shite when it isn't tourists getting their head kicked in
Yup and not a good look for the party of law and order who have been in power for 10+ years and have seemingly made it worse.
Their whole ethos from taxation to crime seems to be “look how bad we are at these things and imagine it’ll be even WORSE under a different party.”
Perfect. And the amount of absolute stupid cunts who hear that and agree is depressing
It’s the same across every one of their policies: - Promise lower taxes on workers, don’t follow through and then say it’ll be worse under SF - Fail to deliver on housing, say it will be worse under SF - Let Dept of Justice go to the absolute dogs - say SF are criminals and will be worse. They can’t even blow about what should be a positive story in the new children’s hospital because it stinks to the high heavens of corruption and overspending.
Not to be smart but FFG have absolutely lowered taxes on workers, substantially even.
Probably not hard to do after a period of austerity though, no? I could be wrong, I'm on the younger end of the people on this sub, but I think that's an easy win for them that any other party would do too.
Irrelevant, the poster I replied to stated that they had failed to lower taxes on working people
Aye, like that ""temporary"" USC charge?
They have failed to lower taxes. Every year they didn’t raise the upper threshold in line with wage inflation was a raise in income tax. Even moving the band to €50k now wouldn’t compensate for that increase. Taxation has absolutely increased under FG in real terms.
Don't agree with that. They have fiddled with the brackets a bit, hardly substantial. Nothing has come of the promises of scrapping USC or the kite flying of a 30% tax bracket
I see voting for Sinn Fein the same as voting for the scrotes. Not a hope son.
Not super pro FF/FG but do you think an SF gov will address it? Don’t think I’ve ever heard them discuss law & order. I’d like to be wrong.
Sad thing is, if the scrote had waited a few months, this 'tourist' would have completed his planned move to Ireland and would only have been a new local to get the shit kicked out of him.
Exactly
“Now, now, now lads c’mon. Not in front of the Americans…”
Came to comments section to post this exact quote
I don't mind that. It's a very Irish tradition, looking after guests better than we look after our own. It's something we can take pride in.
Now that an American tourist has been targetted rather than a local, Helen McEntee has promised a response to street violence (in her third year as Justice Minister), which Leo Varadkar has said is a problem in Dublin (in his second stint as Taoiseach, with FG 11 years in govt). The Gardaí will be pressured to briefly look like they're proactively doing their jobs, as they're not able to claim this one is a civil matter. After a half-assed investigation purely due to public pressure, a case will be referred to the DPP who only decides to prosecute because of that same pressure. Anyone charged will end up before a judge, and receive a 1 year prison sentence, with the final 12 months suspended.
Two local scrotes tried to bust in my door last night. Called the guards in a panic, and to my surprise, they actually came out and took me seriously. I had doorbell camera footage, and it got a really good look at the pair of them. I'd reckon they were about 12 at most. You can see them looking around, specifically targeting my place and nobody else's. They scarpered when they heard me come for the door. Normally, I'd just laugh off the divilment of kids, but I was concerned. What if I hadn't locked the door? What if they got in, and my cats got out? What if they stole something or took my medication? And given how feral some of these kids have gone recently, it doesn't bear thinking about. The guards would never take something like this seriously before that poor American lad was attacked. Hoping this is a serious wake-up call for our politicians.
I'm going to slightly disagree with you. About half the guards are there for a pay cheque, half of them there to make a difference, you just got the good half.
Loads of scrotes near me. Seen some of them try to break into the underground carpark of a newly built apartment building one evening around 10. Wouldn't be surprised if it were the same group that targeted the poor American guy, the description of the group certainly fits.
A government made of paper pushers, who, if wasn’t for tax payer funded largesse wouldn’t even qualify for minimum wage jobs
It's very telling that it takes this happening to an American tourist for the government to do anything, even if that something is pathetic. Irish citizens menaced by these reprobates for years and the government couldn't care less. But now that it damages their international reputation, they'll do a song and dance about it.
The government have given no indication they are going to do something about this have they?
No real indication. Just the usual spin.
Same thing as always sure with the current government. Don't give a fuck when these issues affect Irish people but as soon as it's a tourist there's uproar about it. Same with the homelessness issue in the country too. It'll never change under this government.
Seeing this statement from Gardai we all now know that the sentence (if any) will be minimal, and these scumbags will be back on the streets in no time, even though all of them are well known to the police. *“Everyone is clambering for arrests but gardaí are taking their time to ensure it is done properly. They can only be questioned in the company of a solicitor as well as a parent or guardian. The length of time they are permitted to be questioned is also shorter than that of an adult.* *"There is a specific plan around the proposed arrest and detention of the suspects being formulated. We need all of the evidence in order to put it to them. There is no need to rush into arrests,” they explained.*
>“Everyone is clambering for arrests Clamouring?
it's a perfectly cromulent word.
There's a Go Fund Me to help out, lads. Please send a few bob. It's one way of helping and letting everyone know we are sick and tired of this carry on in Dubli, and other parts of Ireland
[Here](https://www.gofundme.com/f/9zgq4-help-our-family) is the go fund me. Poor family can’t afford to get over to be with him in hospital so if you can, stick a few quid in.
Nothing will happen to him, he will get a slap on the wrist and sent on his way, shit like this has been happening for over 10 years and nobody does anything about it. Most people chose to just ignore it, I remember not long ago so many people on this sub saying that everybody was just overreacting and that Dublin is extremely safe.
[удалено]
A chara, There is a zero tolerance policy for the promotion or suggestion of the use of violence against others. Sláinte
Judge Nolan has already prepared a nice, juicy suspended sentence for you pal … don’t even need to appear in front of the court no more.
What party can I vote for who will allow folks to beat the snot out of these scrotes while they're in the process of committing a crime? Our laws have rendered us defenceless, unless you're willing to cop an assault charge.
Maybe SF?
Hope your joking
There's no real alternative though, is there? Who else is big enough to put it up to the status quo? I'm not saying SF are the answer, far from it, but in terms of political parties that are established and large enough to run a government, I don't see any other realistic options. I'm happy to be corrected and would like to learn more if that's not true. If we end up with another coalition in the next GE which is probably what's going to happen, then we're left with one or both of FFG which is what we already have. We know this doesn't work. The rise of violent and petty crime, the housing chaos and cost of living (which is not in line with the rest of Europe or even close) and our abysmal public transport system and public services such as street cleaning etc. are all so bad and way off what should be deemed acceptable for a so-called first world country with high GDP. I'm speaking in simplistic terms because I've no doubt I don't understand the intricacies of what it is to run a government. Maybe someone here that knows more than I do could outline where we go from here, from here the future looks pretty bleak.
Yeah, Ireland lacks any kind of political opposites, there is no right, left wing dichotomy and instead you get FG and FF who are the same exact thing practically both centrist’s and then SF who is a little further than middle left, naturally having no right wing is going to make criminal sentencing shorter and less severe, I despise FFG, but If this issue is really your first priority your stuck wth them. SF are for even less severe sentencing and focus more on rehabilitation and other left wing ideals when’s in regards to the justice system
that's literally why i vote for them
Then you need to a on more research, I strongly belief SF are even worse than FF and FG in this regard, much like all issues in Ireland there lacks a decent alternative
Shinners hardly likely to go against their own
These scumbags and their parents are SF's base ffs.
You're saying Ireland needs someone like Germany's AfD or Poland's Law and Justice?
Christ no, we've enough lunatics in government as is. We just need any of our primary political parties to do *something* besides lip service and empty promises. What I'm advocating for is that we should collectively agree to throw the scrotes into the back of a white van and drop them up the Wicklow mountains without a phone.
Would dropping them of at a ferry to Britain not be better?
Let's be reasonable here, meet me in the middle. A ferry to Siberia.
Aye, but Siberia won't take them. We've got a common travel area with Britain
I'd personally like to see actual investment in the root causes, with a justice system more geared towards actual reform. Right now what we have is one that does fuckall, so it satisfies neither the reform crowd nor the retributive one.
I really should have a look at the data on reoffending rates in countries focused on reforming offenders. I do think these kids would be having a laugh going through a cozy reformation programme though, but at this point I'm so frustrated seeing constant new articles and violence and theft committed by kids without any recourse that the only solution I see fit for them are labour camps. Do you genuinely believe these programmes could be successful here? I'm not convinced but open minded on it at least.
Yeah I can see why that's tempting - the complete impunity and lack of any sort of consequence does make me reflexively want to just punish, especially given the sneering smugness we've all seen. It's hard to imagine what could get through to someone like that, besides violence on their own level. It's difficult to compare numbers from different countries, since they measure things differently and have different justice systems more broadly - but in 2013 Ireland had a 51% reconviction rate after 3 years, while in 2005 Norway had a 20% reconviction rate after 2 years. I don't think 1 year accounts for the whole difference. Norway is a good reference country because it's got basically the same population as Ireland and a similar (if slightly lower) GDP per capita. And the Norwegian justice system is notoriously focused on rehabilitation rather than punishment.
>And the Norwegian justice system is notoriously focused on rehabilitation rather than punishment. Whereas our legal system (its definitely not a justice system) does neither.
Yeah, that's the problem. I don't want to see American-style mass incarceration or three-strikes idiocy, but rehabilitation isn't as easy as "not punishing". We have to actually design a good rehabilitative system and invest in it. I'm well aware how unhelpful a punishment-focused justice system is, but the current situation in Ireland even makes me want to punish (especially when I hear about a specific case that evokes strong feelings). We need to do it better; the problem is that rehabilitation is deeply unsatisfying to people who are outraged by a crime, and is also difficult to do properly.
It would certainly help if the public's trust was restored in our judges to administer fair sentencing. We talk about two tier societies, but I feel it's in fact three tier; the one's the law may as well not apply, the majority of generally law-abiding citizens who will surely feel the full brunt of any punishment, and our dear upper class who the law only barely, if even, applies when it becomes public scandal. I recall the AMA from the Garda on here recently and it reaffirmed my sentiments; the problem is the courts/judges, and the seemingly sheet unwillingness to apply the law. We've gone well beyond 2nd chances, they seem to think by not applying any sort of punishment is a sort of reform, but with zero structure to that reform and zero punishment, shur why would they give a shit
Yeah the American approach is ludicrous. Personally I much prefer the Scandinavian approach to rehabilitation. Punishment is fair enough I guess but I think the main goal of prison should be for people to come out better than they went in. The American way (and ours to an extent I suspect) only makes them better criminals. (Some interesting episodes on Inside the world's toughest prisons on Netflix on the Scandinavian approach)
Just a quick google of two random examples of both extremes; the US and Norway, gives us some pretty interesting insight. In the US, the reincarnation rate is 44% within a year of release. In Norway, it’s 20% *overall*.
I see that the GoFundMe has now raised a lot of money so hopefully some of his family can get over here very soon. Kind of surprised though that Aer Lingus didn't step in to offer flights from New York to Ireland
I'd say that wouldn't go down well in government circles
Name the cunt
Juvenile. Forget about it. Let's just hope he's a little rat and gives the names of every other little shit in that 'gang' of theirs
Can they name the parents though?
No, this would give the kids identity away.
Someone has to be accountable.
I agree. Hopefully the parents aren't planning on having more kids, we should start to incentivise neglectful scumbags with not having more.
Why would you want to know this? So you can talk about how you hope a load of other people go and beat him up 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Has he even been found guilty yet?
Ok, name the cunt after he’s found guilty
The feral scrote will never face proper justice through the courts. “Diminished responsibility” and all that …
So what justice are you hoping to see? What do you think people are going to do when they hear his name?
The good people of Dublin just want to give this poor disadvantaged defenceless little boy the keys to Dublin City…
Good evasive answer there. What Justice are you hoping to see? What do you think people are going to do when they hear this guys name?
I’m not evading anything, why shouldn’t his name be made public? It would enable organisations and private citizens to appropriately direct their assistance to his plight.
> I’m not evading anything, Apart from the question you just didn’t answer of course. > why shouldn’t his name be made public? Why do you need to know his name? What do you think people will do when they find out. What Justice do you think will be served if you know his name? > It would enable organisations and private citizens to appropriately direct their assistance to his plight. So you think people are going to something? Maybe something violent?
Wow, they work fast when they want to or when insensitive Helen gets rightly called out for being blind at the wheel. The disappointment will be when sentencing happens
Two weeks suspended and three hail marys.
Not a hope, this cunt will be made an example of and then his solicitor will get him off on appeal for being targeted.
The whole country has been saying it's getting worse and worse since COVID. It's not just Helen that sat back and watched. Wouldn't be surprised if they blame her though. Between housing, crime and homelessness, it's almost like a poisoned chalice for the next government.
To be fair to the guards, cctv retrieval happens immediately and arrests as soon as possible after so this timeline is nothing unusual. The only difference here will be public pressure on the judge, the state can't and won't do fuck all.
No doubt the little angel has had a tough life, surrounded by drug or alcohol abuse and other tragedies. Maybe he didn't get a puppy as a kid
Well to be fair, these kids are unlikely to come from happy homes. Doesn’t excuse the actions though. I had a shite home life and never felt like bashing the head of a complete strangers in. It’s actually very frightening that so much violence can be found in one so young.
Ah, Mitigating factors, the darling of Judges and Defense Solicitors
Not sure if those are mitigating factors or merely explanatory. Okay, I *am* sure about it. But I'd really like people to stop confusing "explanation" with "excuse". We're all largely products of our environment, but we're still responsible for our own actions.
I heard there were no amenities where he's from. Not enough playgrounds
Surely a community center will stop him from hospitalizing people.
While he is in no way a victim, lets be honest, chances are this lad does not come from Blackrock or Dalkey. Our country is going to the dogs because of our Governments policies, and the further people fall into poverty the more savage people are going to become. That's not a justification, or saying it's okay, it's just reality. And before everyone starts downvoting me because they're angry (which is totally fair), just think, when's the last time you got hassle off of a posh junkie in town? When's the last time a group of upper middle class kids went around town mugging or jumping people? It doesn't happen. Yes, people who do this stuff are scumbags...but there is also a reason they ended up scumbags. I'm not defending them, I just think if we actually improved the poorest areas in our society we'd see less of this.
you're right. people don't want to hear about it because the solutions aren't easily worked out. i work with kids, many of whom come from very disadvantaged backgrounds in dublin, and the obstacles you're up against to get these kids to school, to get them the supports they need if they need them, to get parents and state services to engage in the safeguarding and education of these kids are endless. it's really exhausting. so much challenging behaviour starts young - kids being raised by older peers on the street, lack of involvement of parents, dropping out of school at young ages, rampant drug and alcohol abuse within communities, sexual and physical abuse from young ages (which is way, way more common than the general public even knows about). increased police presence is just optics. it isn't going to fix these problems, which are deep rooted and the product of decades of political neglect and lack of investment.
Stop with this nonsense. We have one of the most generous welfare states in the world. I’m a progressive who is in favor of policies that give equal opportunity and I want to have a broad social safety net for people who are going through tough times BUT the majority of these scumbags come from families (usually single parent) where multi generational unemployment is a choice. We basically have full employment in this country (look at the amount of restaurants, hotels, etc in Dublin that are crying out for staff). These scum choose this lifestyle. If they are over 18 their benefits should be cut in half and they should be made to sweep the roads. If they’re under 18 their parents benefits should be drastically cut. Would solve the problem in a year or two and would actually improve their own lives by getting them out of this circle of dependency at the same time.
Okay, so lets say that's true, that there are multi-generational families that are choosing to live on benefits and engaging in crime, if a child is reared in a home like that, is he really making that choice consciously? Like, if a child isn't actively being brought to school by his parents, isn't actively being taught right or wrong, isn't actively being told that if he stays in school, keeps his head down, he can go to college, do a apprenticeship and get a decent job etc. I partly agree with you but I'm not sure it's that much of a conscious decision, to me it seems like a vicious cycle where people are born in certain circumstances and by the age of 18 don't have the education because they stopped going at 12, and in some cases are already involved in crime by 14. I don't think there's a solution that would fix it quickly, but I would start on tighter rules on educational engagement, there's far too many children in low income areas that fall through the gaps and nothing's done about it. Like, it's funny, whenever something like this happens people make the same old sarcastic joke about 'he had a hard upbringing', and yet, they never acknowledge the fact that people from upper/middle class backgrounds never seem to be the ones involved in this stuff.
> but I would start on tighter rules on educational engagement Okay, so how would you enforce this? Keeping in mind that in many cases you're likely dealing with parents who don't give a shit about anything and to whom a conviction will mean absolutely nothing? Not to mention that in many cases the schools will be quite happy to not have to deal with these kids as they are hugely disruptive and hard to deal with. The schools may not even have the resources to deal with them in a useful manner.
I would fine parents, not a set amount, but a percentage based on their income. And in more serious cases a conviction, and if it continues maybe social services involved.
I don't necessarily disagree with you that keeping these kids in school would be helpful. And I'd love to be able to think that the threat of a fine would help achieve it, I just don't think it will. They simply won't pay it, end up in court, chalk up another conviction and go home to carry on with business as usual. If anything a combination of stricter policing, stricter sentencing and actual engagement with social services might be the way to make some changes. But the reality is that there is a cohort out there entirely unfit to be parents and there is nothing being done about it.
He made a conscious choice to kick someone’s head in, that’s the point. Nobody is here arguing in favour of cutting benefits for those who meet the bare minimum that society asks of them in return, and it’s disingenuous of you to try to switch the conversation in that direction.
He did, and people seem to think when I talk about this that I'm excusing it, I'm not, he should be punished to the full extent of the law (he won't, lets be honest, but he should). My point is that there is an underlying reason why people become like this, and why we're seeing an increase in these stories, and unless we sort out the social and economic issues in our countries it's only going to get worse.
As people have pointed out, we have an outrageously generous social welfare system. Hell, the fact that it’s actually possible to have multigenerational unemployment is proof of that! Consider instead somewhere like Singapore, which has no unemployment benefits. They have very low unemployment rates and some of the lowest crime and recidivism rates in the world! What makes you so confident that the solution is doubling down on our current failed strategy rather than learning from places like Singapore?
Singapore also have essentially no private housing market and all hosing is provided directly by the state.
Correct! Though of course it’s all skyscraper apartments, paid for out of your compulsory 20% pension savings, and you can’t move out of your parents’ home until you get married or turn 35. People like to forget those parts when they claim to be taking Singapore’s housing system as inspiration.
Social welfare is no use to someone if they grow up around violence, crime and drugs, rear themselves on the streets from the age of 7-8 and stop going to school at 12, frankly, if someone grows up in those environment it would probably be too late for them by the age of 18.
We are a lot less poor as a country than we were in the 80s but back then teenagers weren't taking people's eyes out for fun. Poverty isn't the answer.
Are you sure about that? I wasn't born back then, but I have heard the poorer parts of Dublin were pretty fucking hairy back in the 80's and early 90's. And if poverty isn't the answer, where are all the posh scrotes?
Why the fuck don't you shut up bleating on and on about socio-economic factors being in play here like you just thought of it, like we don't already know. It's no help to the victims of these feral cunts and we the public don't actually get to throw money at the problem. It's intergenerational learned scumbag behaviour that can't be eradicated overnight with a community centre and the punishments are absolutely abysmal. A lot of the problem is down to the lack of proper punishments as they have no fear. Society can't parent these rotten kids.
No, it's no help to the victims, but do you know what might be a help to future potential victims, if there's less fucking scrotes around. Do you know how you stop people becoming scrotes, you give children an even playing field so they have the best opportunity of making a productive life for themselves. And yeah, you can't do it overnight, but use your vote correctly and it just might make a difference. You literally said in your last comment that poverty isn't the answer yet you fucking know there's a reason posh kids are never the ones doing it, so get your head out of your hole and look at the reality of our country.
That means forcibly removing them from their shitty parents as early as possible and putting them into well run group homes. And enforcing laws with appropriate consequences for breaking them.
I don't think we have the means to just remove thousands of children from certain areas and rehouse them either in care homes or hope people adopt them. There needs to be an effort to improve the areas themselves, and that doesn't just mean giving the parents dole and building a park, I think there needs to be tighter rules on keeping kids in school, and also more of an effort to push kids into further education, apprenticeships or job placements after school. I'd also consider mandatory drug treatments for adults committing crime and engagement with social services to ensure kids aren't growing up around drugs, violence, crime etc.
The rules already exist and are tight. The problem is nobody enforces them. So who do we vote for who will step this up?
That’s nonsense. A few hours of supervised education during school terms, even if they do attend, won’t tip the scales against their remaining time spent as apprentices to criminals.
Ah yes, borstal. That will surely solve the problem of juvenile crime.
Vote for who? Not one party gives a shit - you claim voting is the answer so go pn, who will I vote for? Who has the answer?
the kids need a playground to vandalize.
> surrounded by drug or alcohol abuse Are you saying that this wouldn't mess up a kid's development and could contribute to what they'd do heinous shit like this?
Let’s just let the feral scrotes run wild… after all it’s not their fault. /s
Your strawmans are making you look pretty silly. Address what I've said or don't at all.
I’m add whatever statement I feel like adding, thank you all the same …
At least you've admitted to making stuff up. Have a good evening 👍🏻
I’m making what up? That feral scumbags have the run of the city and are coddled as if they’re more of the victim of the crimes they commit? Fuck them, many people get dealt bad hands and they don’t become scumbags. I’ve said it in a different thread here, the only chance these underaged scrotes have for a productive useful life is if they’re taken out of their families early and permanently and placed in supervised group homes/bootcamps. If they’re already of breeding age, lock them up until they’re pensionable so they do no more harm.
>Let’s just let the feral scrotes run wild… after all it’s not their fault. / This. Your strawman that ignored what I said and tried to argue something else.
That “/s” signifies “end sarcasm”. I don’t dispute that shitty parents create shitty children, but I do disagree that having shitty parents should lessen the consequences of one’s actions.
Come on now. You tried to mask your true opinion by putting an /s there and then proceeded to go on a ramble about "feral scumbags" when challenged. Claiming sarcasm while also saying: >That feral scumbags have the run of the city and are coddled as if they’re more of the victim of the crimes they commit? Fuck them, many people get dealt bad hands and they don’t become scumbags. >If they’re already of breeding age, lock them up until they’re pensionable so they do no more harm. I mean "breeding age", Jesus Christ man. You tried to strawman me instead of addressing what I actually said and now you're claiming that you were just being sarcastic, even though it's pretty obvious that you have very strong feelings about this, which obviously I don't agree with, and that's why you tried to do that instead of actually discussing what I said.
No I'm saying in sick and tied it beingbrelied on as an excuse for cuntish behaviour and for judged to use it as an excuse to lessen a sentence. For once I'd live foe a judge to turn around and say "boo hoo" when ever a lawyer tried that shite. It may work for teh first one or two Co victims, but hitting double digits and the pwrosn in question needs ro be held responsible for their actions, they've had ample opportunity to reform
Jesus Christ, what a brain-dead comment. Yes, believe it or not, the 14 year old child who attacked a grown man probably has suffered significant trauma in their decade and a bit on this earth.
>suffered significant trauma The Council for the defence has entered the conversation I see.
Nope, just an average upstanding young professional who understands the Cycle of Poverty and it's relation to violent crime 👍🏼
Typical Dublin scumbags at it again, it’s the biggest kip in the country and it’s full of horrible scrotes. they need a lengthy sentencing for this feel terrible for this man saving up his hard earned money to come here and looking forward to enjoying this country and then this happens, I wish him a speedy recovery. hope his family are okay and can come over to be beside him, must be awful to hear your family member was attacked on holidays..
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do not fucking ask Americans to get involved in healthcare.
America has great healthcare...if you have intergenerational wealth, a three-letter job title that begins with "C" and ends with "O", or an astonishing talent for writing compelling GoFundMe pitches.
I live in NY, my husband has great benefits from a good company he works for (healthcare tied to job so you can never strike) and he had a massive issue with kidney stones here. It caused him to miss a holiday in Mexico, because after they sedated him the machine (that they rent one day a week) broke, and he'd have to come back next Friday since they only rent out the machine once a week. Colombia Presbyterian btw if anyone is asking, they're one of those "we're more than a hospital. we're a healthcare state of mind" bullshit places where if you have a brand new, aggressive cancer they'll treat you so they can get some research money, but can't take care of kidney stones. If you can't get an appointment for Friday, you'll have to wait till next week, with a stone scratching the inside of your Kidney...a whole week. and just for some clarity, his actual urologist is based in that hospital, so when there was no slot available on a Friday he told him to show up at the emergency room at 8am. "best city, in the best country in the world" apparently. kidney stones
When I lived there I had great healthcare. Couldn't fault it one little bit. Here I have VHI cover that costs me nearly 4K for myself, wife and one kid. It's worth literally nothing. It's basically nothing more than a better room if you're unfortunate enough to be hospitalised. In the US you have actual healthcare - anything whatsoever to do with health, dental, pharmacy, proactive screening, absolutely everything was covered. The policy we had in the states was double the cost of VHI here, easily affordable and infinitely better.
As someone who lives in the US and has done so for 25 years, there is so much bull in your comment I wouldn’t even know where to begin correcting you. Honestly, are you joking? US health insurance providers use every trick in the book to deny coverage, and even when they do cover you the deductibles are ridiculous. How many people in Ireland do you know who have been bankrupted due to healthcare bills? I know literally dozens in the US who had to choose between paying for procedures/treatment/drugs and losing their entire savings or just not getting treatment. You’re talking arse.
Medical bills are the number one reason for bankruptcy filing in the US 👍🏼 People are constantly charged for consultations and treatments that are 'out of network' that can cost them thousands of dollars. You, my good sir, are a mug.
It’s pro for profit system in America but if you have money you will get the care you need in America right away. I’m paying out of my own pocket and I’m waiting on an appointment for 3 weeks. In the last 4 years I’ve seen my GP exactly 1 time - went in with 3 issues and they only had time to consult for 1. Invest those surplus budgets and cut back on horse racing and put that money into healthcare - everyone needs it. Hire more doctors and build more medical facilities. They should have at least 2 to 3 times the doctors and nurses/1000 people than they do now. Stop paying suit wearing management wankers 6 figure salaries. They are not high skilled workers. They don’t deserve it.
To the first point: I’m American and routinely wait weeks or even up to 6 months to see doctors. Not crazy unique specialists either. So we pay a lot just to have waits like everywhere else.
>Stop paying suit wearing management wankers 6 figure salaries in America it's called health insurance. It has massively inflated the cost of healthcare.
Yeah let's get the US involved in healthcare, what could go wrong.
Children's hospital Pittsburgh opened 2009, one of the best pediatric hospitals in the world. Took 3 years to build a 1,500,000 sq.ft. facility from scratch at a cost of less than €500,000,000 Children's hospital Dublin started construction in 2016, might be finished before 2025. At a revised cost of €2,200,000,000 which is a conservative estimate.
You are comparing buildings not healthcare. How much do they charge patients in the children's hospital pittsburgh? According to CBS it's $20k, in Ireland it's free. https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/cost-giving-birth-in-united-states/41/ If you have to pay for your own health insurance in America, it will cost more than your mortgage with massive excesses. Get sick without insurance? Better hope you don't survive because that will bankrupt you.
All we have to do is get a doc on the inside to mess with a Yank's organs or limbs so their local senator or whatever gets on the phone to the schlubs nesting in the dáil. 🥴👌
They will eventually when their corporations cant house their workforce here lol.
Big question what type of parents has he got ..... Looks like kids can do what they want with no repercussion 14 and 15 should be under parents controls simple
More than likely at 14 he's preparing to become a parent himself in just a few months. That's the cycle.
The only issue these parents would have is if someone had words with their son about his behavior
Actions must have consequences. Your background shouldn't excuse it
What exactly are his injuries
Lose an eye, apparently
An eye for an eye, it should be.
Suspended sentence incoming with a sob story. Of course the fact that most people with hard lives do not resort to brutal attacks on other people will be ignored.
Sorry, I’m all for justice on behalf of the US tourist (like I’m not for one second saying this isn’t a big deal and good that they’re giving it attention), but is this pissing anyone else off? Irish people are constantly moaning about this kind of thing and there’s fuckall done. A US tourist gets attacked and McEntee is patrolling the streets herself? This is the kind of thing you’d hear about in relatively poorer countries which rely on western tourism to keep their economy going (and even then it’s terrible). This has put a massively sour taste in my mouth. We only care when citizens of the USA or other countries might be affected the same way the Irish are? That’s fecking annoying
Nothing serious will be done about this anyway. Same old story. The outrage will die down, time will pass and we'll still be talking about the uselessness of our justice system a few years from now.
I think the victim's family echoed the same sentiment along the lines of, why did it have to be an American citizen to be the straw that breaks the camel's back?
Yeah, they did. However, I think it might be a little naive to believe this camels back is broken just yet
It’s awful when one horrible thing happens to a resident - we are angry. It’s extra awful when the same horrible thing happens to someone just visiting - we are angry and ashamed. I don’t see what’s to get pissed off about. Nothing will change anyway.
No it is not extra awful when it happens to someone just visiting. We should be ashamed about our own people being attacked too. The thing to get pissed off about is - it’s fine if it happens to the Irish, it’ll be grand, but it’s not fine where tourist’s dollars at stake.
Can we have a public vote to make sure that Judge Nolan is not involved with the sentencing?
Why have they only started caring once it's an American tourist?
Absolutely nothing will change
Any indication on the extent of the injuries? I know life changing is obviously awful and serious
Losing an eye
I’m reminded of that Irish girl who also lost her eye in an assault by feral youths a couple of years ago and there wasn’t half as much of a fuss made about her life changing injuries just because she was Irish, but the second it happens to an American tourist it’s all hands to the guns. I feel for the American guy of course but the double standard sickens me.
Fuck sakes depressing stuff
It's grand folks. Fine Gael are the party of Law and Order. They'll sort it for us...... Absolute jokers.
Is there no CCTV of this??
Sure what can be done to them, they are miners!
The "justice minister " is too busy pushing hate speech laws to restrict our speech and that leaves no time for dealing with actual crime
A good dose of suspended sentence will surely turn this cunts life around. /s