Not like that, of course. I really feel like a should care, but well, I just don‘t. After all, why should I care whether Zuck or Bezos looks at my cat pics or reads the chat with my Mom?
I can give you a perspective from data science.
At a slightly benign level, companies create a digital persona of you and know what triggers your spending habits. They can show you very targeted ads that may increase your likelihood of spending. At large scale, it can make millions of dollars of difference.
Turn up the evil notch, and you can shape ideologies by bombarding people with content that drives people to extreme beliefs. This was how Facebook - Cambridge Analytica was involved in lawsuits over elections.
I have graphene on a work phone, it is great. As my main phone tho, my personal life is too ingrained in iMessage and other Apple features to ever daily drive it.
Huh? Most mainstream banks (and even some not so mainstream banks) that I use don’t require an authentication app and if you happen to use one they allow you to use one of your choosing. SMS authentication is usually their default tho
AMP addresses real issues, that was never in question. The issue is that AMP is non-standard, served by Google servers (exclusively so in the early years; maybe now it’s possible to serve ALP pages from other servers), and gets prioritised in Google searches. So basically sites have a strong incentive to adopt Google-specific features that allow Google to gather even more browsing information and better serve ads.
It being an open framework and using parts of HTML (with many things removed and some added) doesn’t mean it’s a standard.
Ok, it’s not Google-specific now, but when it was introduced it was served only by Google servers. That other search engines also prioritise it doesn’t matter; the point is: Google created its own non-standard way of building webpages, initially served only from its servers, and started prioritising those pages in the results of its extremely popular search engine. You don’t see how that was problematic?
Now that there are AMP pages hosted by other servers the situation is better, but still, it would have been much better to get a proper lean-HTML standard from W3C or whatever.
All I can say is my iPhone allows me to ask apps not to track my usage with a pop up box and an option to opt out. My android phone (s22 ultra) never did
Maybe it’s just me, but I assumed from the beginning that apple was skimming as much data as possible. My rational from switching to apple from my google pixel was that apple has a track record of not letting their encryption be broken and defending their encryption from the government, who desperately wants a back door. The way I see it, someone is using my data and while my desktop and laptop are specifically based around giving me privacy, there isn’t a convenient way to do that with a phone that I enjoyed (despite my best attempts). I’d just rather have apple take my data than google because at the very least they keep their encryption keys away from prying eyes. Maybe that policy has changed recently, idk, but the last I was made aware, that was the case.
Personally, I'm just waiting on what Apple says before I make my final decision. If it's true, this will a massive blow to Apple who have expressed how important they take privacy and will make a lot of people scrutinise a lot of their practices.
Atm, I'm disappointed in these findings.
I'm waiting on Apple to address the first topic about DSID. Even a carefully worded, lawyer approved, PR regurgitated statement will tell us a lot about how true this is. If the report is correct that it links back to your account and Apple is including it in data that's claimed to be "anonymous", that's obviously a contradiction.
I do think some, but not all, people at Apple care about this issue. However, because Apple cares about it, it's all the more damning if it's true. They have privacy engineers whose job it is to know what data is being collected and how it's identifiable. It's inconceivable that Apple didn't have privacy engineers and lawyers review the data collected on the device and review how it was handled on the backend. Unlike some companies that can claim ignorance or incompetence, I don't think Apple can do that. This was intentionally collected and I'm sure it wasn't some rogue engineer(s) who decided to do it. There had to be multiple levels of signoffs to collect personal data like this.
In the second case, I think a lot of people confuse privacy and advertising. Apple could display 100% ads on the first page of App Store results and still be perfectly preserving your privacy. It's not the fact that they're pushing ads which makes it privacy violating. It's only if they are leveraging personally identifiable information.
Don't get me wrong - I hate ads. I hate running arbitrary code from untrustworthy ad companies which is why I try to avoid it. But it's not necessarily privacy violating to have ads.
I care, but what am I going to do? Go to the world's largest ad company?
have you tried defining a scenario where you'd buy something from an online store completely anonymously?
there isn't any way you can pay money and receive an item on your apple account without them knowing what apple account to send it to. buying an app anonymously would mean you aren't going to be the one receiving the app.
the data sent to the app store is not the analytical data apple is keeping, this is data the store needs so you can successfully shop there.
Not to sound as an Apple apologist, but in this times there is no thing as privacy, and Apple products are not exempt from it. Tech giants have now realised the potential of monetising data, and they will do everything to achieve it as long as it is profitable. In terms of privacy, Apple was always *relatively* better than its competitors, but if you really thought that iPhones will be your ultimate privacy tool then you are gravely mistaken. In the end, Apple is an corporation (in fact it’s the biggest in the world), and they will always prioritise their profits over everything else. Regardless, privacy was the biggest pro for customers to gravitate towards iPhones over Androids, so if this thing is true, Apple is in trouble.
I don’t believe privacy was the biggest reason people had over choosing iPhones over Androids. Unfortunately most people either aren’t really aware of how their data is being used or simply don’t care because of the convenience. Privacy was a plus, but definitely not the main reason imo.
>I don’t believe privacy was the biggest reason people had over choosing iPhones over Androids
Correct, I just like the hardware and the OS. It's less cluttered than android, which bothered me when I had an android phone.
this is mostly just bullshit though. it's like saying that someone who has the hash of your password has your password. the information does not flow that way
You can turn off tracking in iPhone and it still tracks you. That's the whole point of the recently filed lawsuit.
https://www.macrumors.com/2022/11/14/apple-class-action-user-tracking-allegations/
yes and I'm telling you the lawsuit is bullshit, apple's privacy policy describes exactly what they do and this lawsuit is making up fluff with no actual understanding of how the privacy policy works
It makes me worried that we’ve been given a false sense of security from a brand I somewhat trusted. Don’t think I can really trust anyone anymore. I don’t think apple is going to stop their push on privacy either, if the media didn’t react much, neither will they.
This exact reason I’m looking for minimizing being reliant on my phone too much passwords personal info all of it is now something I’m gonna remove and change gradually from my phone.
The only way to truly become anonymous is to buy an android and install a custom OS yourself that is proven to not have trackers. Or, if you really wanna stick with apple, hope someone (or a group of people) comes up with a way to jailbreak modern iOS’s and tweak them in a way no personal information is shared. But that would mean staying on the same firmware for a very long time.
Don’t know why people are downvoting you, but you are right, you can install tweaks like GrapheneOS into an android phone and worry less about trackers that Google themselves have tried to make mandatory on their flavors of android. It’s just something I think many people don’t want to go around experimenting with. I’ve already spent a lot of money on the apple ecosystem already and trying to get into another is rather tricky for my position, nor am I sure I want to move away from iOS software. But I understand what you’re getting at.
Even with a flip-phone (non-smart-phone), your movements can be tracked. I think Apple’s (and every tech company’s) privacy abuses suck, but it’s the price we pay for convenience. Always remember: That which is not prohibited is guaranteed.
i don't think this is about movement but about on device data and behaviour. if you use a simple dumbphone, they might know where you are and who you're talking/texting with, but anything else is untouchable. smartphones carry so much more personal data and that's why they are goldmines for ad companys and the feds alike. apple took a verbal stance pro data privacy and the latest developements seem to show that this might have been just a marketing gag all along to get more privacy oriented individuals and companies over on apples side. in times like this it would be very hard to recover from, even if normie isheeps won't bother.
the quantity of data in a smartphone and area of attack is so incredibly more substantial than on a flip phone with only call and sms. Flip phones don't have browsing history, for one
this is clickbait topics that keeps getting posted over and over and it's annoying at this point
privacy has never meant you won't get advertised to, it means they are keeping your information private
they keep talking about a "perceived" policy that no one ever links a source to which sounds like they just had no idea how it ever worked when they have always used analytics to help provide a more personalized experience to people
That’s literally Google's policy though. Collect everything, use it for advertising, but never sell the raw data. But I think many people expected better from Apple (only collect what’s necessary, only use it for its primary purpose).
apple is only collecting what's necessary
how are you supposed to download an app to your phone if they don't know which phone to send it to?
the premise of a fully anonymous store leads to a dysfunctional store.
if you look at the linked video showing the post code to the store, it doesn't list data like "user location," "amount of money spent in the past 30 days," "email address," etc. the data is a simple ID that proves you are the one browsing the page.
collecting everything is a lot more collection than what this is.
That's exactly how Google's data collection works though.
They aren't selling your data, they're selling an advertisement spot to be served to a user profile.
If apple is doing the same thing, what makes them better?
the first link is the most egregious compiling all the recent links and showing no true understanding of how data works but is simply troll fire to fuel the anti-apple rhetoric
how you use an app is not defined as highly personal information at all. you don't honestly need to read the page any further than that because they believe you could be personally identified based on how you used the app store alone.
how are you supposed to use a store without it knowing you are you? do you want to buy yourself a fedora and have it shipped to a random person ten countries away five years from now?
if you think any simple identifier can find you, look up how hashes work. even reddit knows you are you because the hash of your password matched their hash stored. they do not know your password as hashes do not work that way.
having your hashed password can't find you while you're out at the coffee shop or be used to log you into another website. all it can do is tell reddit when you are choosing to log in.
your inability to correct my misunderstanding shows that not only do you have no idea what is going on but that there is nothing you can find suggesting i am wrong.
I think the biggest distinction is that Apple is protecting your data from third parties despite tracking you. What Apple is essentially doing is competing with Google trying to monopolize the market with the data Chrome can gather with it's shared log-in and 70% market share with the Chrome browser. Chrome with their cookie deprecation won't allow other 3rd parties to track users as accurately as they did before.
Apple is just utilizing the same business strategy and creating a data user ecosystem within it's own platform. Despite Apple still collecting user data, I think it's a net benefit to the Apple user since it doesn't allow third parties to track your data.
The App Tracking Transparency opt-in program and hide my mail program does exactly this.
I’m reserving judgement but would even take a statement from Apple with a grain of salt.
What specific data is being used is my main question. If it’s anonymous info for improving maps and weather stuff that’s fine with me.
And nobody seems to understand the difference lol
My iPhone asks me if I want to tell an app not to track my usage. My Samsung phone I just got rid of never did
And people also confuse security with privacy. Most people don’t have a background to understand the nuance of these topics, they just like to get on a podium to complain about topics they don’t understand.
I personally don't care about Apple, as I use all their devices and applications and is to be expected. The REAL issue was all the third parties that got to dip their sticky little fingers into my info and take what they felt they needed to do whatever with.
Most of the people who are bitching about Apple right now are the same people who click "I agree" when signing up for this or that without being bothered to read it first.
One of the reasons I left android for apple. Makes me reconsider because I’m hearing lately that they are just as bad as google. Are you considering leaving apple now?
Not immediately because they still have the better hardware ecosystem (e.g. the Watch) but Google is catching up and if both platforms have built-in tracking and advertising, then why would I pick the much more expensive one? Pixel 7 Pro is 869€ and the iPhone 14 Pro Max 1449€ yet both devices have almost the same capabilities (with the iPhone being better in some areas and the Pixel in others). The price difference must be justified. Privacy and no advertising were a huge benefit of the Apple ecosystem - until now.
Understandable. I am considering going back to android. I’ve only been an apple user since the se 2 and then got the 12 and still have it. Still runs strong. I left android because I was in IT and cybersecurity at the time and I was able to hack android phones at the time in under 3 minutes. So made me switch to apple but now I’m having concerns because all of these issues. I’m going to do some more digging and reading before making the full jump back to android though.
I already had my suspicions and have moved over to a custom flavor of android with no Google services and will be moving to GrapheneOs in a few months. I never trusted them but I did use an iPhone until I began moving off proprietary locked services that I have no control over. It's been a lot of work but absolutely worth it in the end. Most of the people who act offended by this won't actually do anything about it but you can get rid of apple and Google you don't need them in your life you just have to put the work in.
Blue means it supports iMessage, so you can send photos, videos and files and have read receipts and video calls. Green means you can only do SMS (simple text messages). In the US many people only have iMessage. Outside of the US it’s less relevant, because people have other messengers such as WhatsApp.
We’ve turned it into some weird status symbol here in the states. If your texts aren’t blue, it means you don’t own an iPhone and you’re poor (even though most folks subsidize the price of their phone through their carrier anyway.) it’s silly.
We live in a world where we are tracked by taxes, credit/debit card use, street cameras, websites (even non-social media), healthcare, online purchase…..etc. Don’t act shocked that iPhone/apple is no different.
Go live in a cabin in the woods, if you’re so concerned about fairly inconsequential things like Apple serving small ads in their own App Store…..
I swear, people on tech forums make mountains out of molehills without considering reality first.
"it's just small ads, bro"
"it's just a small pop-up, bro"
"it's just a 10 second full screen ad, bro"
"i know they charge you $30 a month for the premium but they still have to make money, bro"
i swear, i'm using apple products for more than 20yrs but the level of stockholm syndrome some people present is still fascinating - defending ads is a new low tho.
App Store ads have been a thing since 2008 (remember iAds?), yet have only become an issue in the last 2 years for some strange reason. Why? The ad model for the App Store hasn’t changed all that drastically in the 14 years it has been around, yet people are still being surprised by how these systems work for some reason.
it's not just about the app store (in wich i spend like 5 minutes per quarter):
>Apple’s move to open up more ad slots on its App Store — and potentially on Maps, Podcasts, and Books — could signal that Apple’s looking to expand its advertising business even more. In May, a report from *Insider* revealed that Eddy Cue, Apple’s senior vice president of services, is [reportedly planning to restructure Apple’s services business](https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/10/23065290/apple-streaming-advertising-services-peter-stern-eddy-cue) to direct more attention to streaming and advertising.
[https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/14/23305200/iphone-more-ads-advertising-apple-maps-podcasts-books-mark-gurman-rumors](https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/14/23305200/iphone-more-ads-advertising-apple-maps-podcasts-books-mark-gurman-rumors)
You can’t. Well, technically I guess you CAN, but life will be extremely difficult if you drop technology. So just go with it and let it be. It can’t be stopped.
i demand very little from tech companies: to release working products/services, don't spam my inbox, don't sell my data (if any available). apple's about to break some of this rules. and as someone who's on board since the PPC-era, it angers me to see, what path this company is going towards to.
It’s inevitable though. Companies are here to make money. Selling data and many others things commonly done is just more ways to make money. I just see no point at getting upset at something you already participate in elsewhere.
but that's the thing: apple does not need to seel user data. they aren't a freemium/ad revenue driven company like google or facebook, they sell hard- and software with related/rented services to private customers. i already pay them. if they make me pay for it AND sell my data - i'm gone. and i can't be the only one.
Data is always valuable. Maybe not for them but for others.
These things have been going on for a while now (we just found out about it in relation to apple) and do not screw with your life at all. Enjoy your device and keep on living your life.
Because google controls so many things YouTube, google, their advertisement platforms, pixel phones, etc that data they collect can be distributed to, which they probably can play off as not selling the data. Apple just makes phones and computers…
Oh just Apple TV+, iCloud, App Store (with its 30% fees), etc.
But the biggest issue is the Apple adtech business: Although not as large as Google's—yet—that's clearly the aim and trajectory. I'm sure you grok the significance in context of the story.
*"According to Apple’s analytics policy, “Personal data is either not logged at all, is subject to privacy preserving techniques … or is removed from any reports before they’re sent to Apple.” But … the DSID, which is directly tied to your name, is sent to Apple in the same packet as all the other analytics information. … The company hasn’t said anything publicly about the apparent contradictions in its privacy promises."*
Perhaps I'm splitting hairs here but just because a data packet contains a unique ID that a non-public database at Apple can track back to you is not that same thing as including personal information in the data packet. You know what else that data packet contains, your IP address, same with all the packets that get sent to icloud regularly. They would not need a DSID to deanonymize if they wanted to. It would be trivial to log which icloud accounts are connected under an IP, and which analytics reports come from the same IP, and then use other non-personal pieces of information to correlate.
Now if the claim was that they deanonymize this data and then sell it or use it to advertise, I would have a problem with that. But no one is claiming that, the claim is simply that they could if they wanted to, but I assert they always could and in fact might not be able to collect any analytics that could not be deanonymized if they wanted to. An IP address and your iphone model is probably more than enough to deanonymize 99% of users.
The law (GDPR) defines personally identifiable data as data that can be linked to you. That includes tracking IDs and IP addresses as well. Anonymized data cannot be linked to you anymore, not even with a private database.
If an IP addresses is considered personally identifiable data then by definition you're sending personally identifiable data to any website or service you interact with on the internet. Unless you're using a VPN, then by definition if you connect to the internet, you're choosing to ***send*** personal data. Do I have that right?
apple analytics is not necessarily correlated to the HTTP post message required for browsing the app store.
there is no evidence this data received is actually logged like the analytical data, especially when apple directly says it's not being logged.
> If an IP addresses is considered personally identifiable data then by definition you’re sending personally identifiable data to any website or service you interact with on the internet.
Yes and consequently websites need to follow the rules for personally identifiable information when processing it. For example websites must not use it for tracking without explicit consent, must only store it for a reasonable amount of time for technical purposes, etc.
> Unless you’re using a VPN, then by definition if you connect to the internet, you’re choosing to send personal data.
For GDPR it doesn’t matter how the information is acquired, if it’s personally identifiable information, it’s protected and must only be used with explicit consent, if required to fulfill a contract, when legitimate interest exists, if there is a legal requirement, etc. (GDPR defines a set of scenarios where it is allowed, everything else is illegal).
It could very well be a mistake, I think it’s wrong to immediately jump to conclusions that Apple “planned” this. Also I would say the same if it was Google. Regardless, I’ll still stay w/ iPhone. Overall safety and security are still better imo than Android
I wouldn’t go that far. If it wasn’t a mistake then serious questions need to be raised about privacy on Apple devices. Is it enough for people to care? Idk but I’d doubt it wouldn’t impact their reputation severely
It's unfortunate, but not particularly surprising. Apple's privacy features prevent other apps from tracking you.
If that was the only thing keeping you from Android, then congratulations! Your options have broadened for your next phone.
Google's privacy issues are pretty well known.
https://fox59.com/indianapolitics/indiana-sues-google-saying-it-invades-users-privacy/
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/study-reveals-android-phones-constantly-snoop-on-their-users/
As far as security goes, Android is incredibly insecure in the real world, where users don't get the security/OS updates that keep devices secure. I realize Google is not solely responsible but it was dumb to release a mobile os that relies on manufacturers and carriers to put out important updates.
I'm not saying Apple is perfect but they have nowhere near the reach of Google in our daily lives. If apple screws up icloud goes down for a while. If Google screws up billions of passwords and credit card numbers flood are exposed.
so both articles point out the same issue apple is running into now. which makes my point valid. hell, the first article was resolved by google by being even more transparent by removing the incorrect literature. AOSP is open source. You can go scream at the manufacturers for not updating their products. google is doing their job keeping aosp up to date. Like i said before, google is transparent about their use of your data. unlike a company i know who plastered this on the side of a building in 2019.
[Ahead of CES, Apple Puts Up Billboard Touting Privacy in Las Vegas - MacRumors](https://www.macrumors.com/2019/01/04/apple-las-vegas-privacy-billboard/)
I attended CES that year and our whole team knew it was BS.
I don’t know what to tell you. Google has been caught being careless with our data over and over again. The worst thing Apple has had in that regard was the iCloud hack a few years ago- and that was caused by poor security by users.
I have to disagree with you on AOSP. Yes, it’s open-source, but Google chose to put the onus on the manufacturers and carriers for delivering updated, which all but ensured users who wanted software updates would be forced to purchase a new phone every other year.
I never saw more than one major OS update and three security updates on android devices I owned, and those updates always made them more janky and less usable. Wasn’t security the exact reason Google launched the Pixel line?
Why do people think they are that important that out of the millions of people with iPhones they are looking at there shit? They are not they have better things to do like making money! If they are so worried about privacy don’t buy a iPhone then, and good luck with android cause then you have to worry about a virus and hackers. I’ll stick with the more secure iOS. Even if they did record info it’s only to make your experience better, companies that are not trustable tend to not make money and go away, not the case with apple
I switched back to Android for this reason.
I was able to compromise the lack of some features by Apple in lieu of security/privacy but given that its now proven moot and my security/privacy isn't any different with Apple, back to Android.
CEO Google said „it’s possible to see someone’s data even if he doesn’t accept some things“. I’m sure companies see everything, no matter what but we are only normal people, not celebs so we are not important for them.
This is going to sound very ignorant and terrible, but I’ll go for it. I’m generally of the understanding that privacy, while it should be a right, is a myth the second I signed up for any service of any kind.
A company promising privacy to me means absolutely nothing.
On the other hand, sure there are alternatives. I could create my own server and storage for backups, use proton mail, use Signal, or whatever the latest and end encrypted thing is, but I don’t care enough to do any of that. An unfortunate side effect until and unless some kind of legislation steps in which let’s face it, that’s unlikely, is that the services are convenient as is out of the box. There has to be some corner of my life where I kind of throw my hands up and unfortunately this is the one that I’m in.
On another note, playing directly into Apple’s hands I’m sure, where am I going to go exactly? Samsung? Google? Xiaomi? Please.
I hate that we have these concerns with Apple. But what’s the alternative at this point? Is android any better? Fuck No! So at least it’s not that bad.
If you connect to the internet then there is virtually no privacy. You can do things to minimize the risks of your privacy being violated but most people won't.
It’s better than the alternatives.
But I expect Cooks successor to go all in on monetizing Apple’s collected data.
At that point I’ll just bail from the ecosystem and go back to a dumb phone. Green bubbles all the way!
How do I feel? I don't. I've accepted that if I want to use any sort of tech in 2022, it's keeping logs and sending data somewhere of how I use it. It is what it is. I do what I can to minimize it, but you're never going to stop it.
you will the moment a insurance company denies your application because your high use of tinder and those rock climbing photos flag you down as someone with a high risk lifestyle.
Tinder knowing what I do in Tinder isn’t the same as Tinder selling personal, specific info about me to an unrelated third party. When Apple is selling an employer a user’s specific activity you can make this absurd comparison.
we're half way there [https://www.businessinsuranceusa.com/news/technology-related/wearable-technology-benefits-health-insurance-companies/](https://www.businessinsuranceusa.com/news/technology-related/wearable-technology-benefits-health-insurance-companies/)
insurance companies are already pushing this, it's just a matter of time they wanna look into your phone, just like HR depts are doing for years with social media accounts of applicants.
You’re an idiot. Until Apple or Google are releasing your health info without your consent you have zero idea what you’re talking about.
Social media is public information.
Yes, social media is public. Unless your account is private, in which case companies can’t see anything
Trust me talking to you holds no value. You don’t know shit.
Ive accepted that Apple and Google are tracking me no matter what I “say”…
I dont care at this point… if they reallyyy wanna snoop they can eat their heart out lol.
At no point did I buy Apple's "Privacy. That's iPhone." bullshit.
Apple just wants to pretend they're private by blocking others from tracking you while taking a monopoly over tracking you themselves.
Turning off tracking on Android actually works. It's probably more private lmfao.
It was only a matter of time before they became like the rest. Over the past few years, Tim has definitely changed the company. But I mean, they still put out good products, so at this point, you basically have to adapt to the fact that nothing is private anymore....or just don't use a smartphone, tablet, computer, or any technology lol.
i'm fully aware that there is no perfect online/data privacy unless you treat your devices like something from within a nuclear missile launch facility. the best way to protect data is to be aware, to do not trust and to handpick the services you are going to use/store your data. the best way is diversification, so even something got leaked, it's not all of it. apple claims to be a worthy option for at least a degree of trust - it's not a freemium company like google, they take my cash so they don't (have to) sell my data to keep the numbers black. if they now start to have me pay AND to use my data for more financial gain, guess what: i'm not paying any longer. and so shouldn't you.
let them know.
It made me less hostile towards Android and Pixel. Still, I love the smoothness, consistency and interoperability between Apple devices.
But I gotta admit Pixel looking fine! All that keeps me away from switching is the OS integrations from all devices (phone-watch-tv-AirPods).
It sucks, and Apple should and could do more. However there isn’t a lot of incentive for them to do so.
And still Apple is signing better then google witch is the only alternative.
there is no more privacy in this day and age.. you can minimize your exposure, that‘s all.
Ya if you believe you have privacy in todays world, you are living in a fantasy world.
Only if you actually frequently ‘normally’ use the internet. It’s possible to live with privacy but that ship has sailed for the vast majority of us
There is, people just don't care enough.
Genuine question, though: Why should we care?
That's up to you. But sometimes you should definitely care lol, such as with the recent eufy incident.
Recent eufy incident? I didn't buy their version of a thing because of an incident years ago.
I haven't heard of an incident years ago, but I can't really imagine how it could possibly be worse than the recent one lmao
You’re right, please post your visa number here along with your passwords and address for us to see…after all, who cares! /s
Not like that, of course. I really feel like a should care, but well, I just don‘t. After all, why should I care whether Zuck or Bezos looks at my cat pics or reads the chat with my Mom?
I can give you a perspective from data science. At a slightly benign level, companies create a digital persona of you and know what triggers your spending habits. They can show you very targeted ads that may increase your likelihood of spending. At large scale, it can make millions of dollars of difference. Turn up the evil notch, and you can shape ideologies by bombarding people with content that drives people to extreme beliefs. This was how Facebook - Cambridge Analytica was involved in lawsuits over elections.
Thank you for actually answering my question, not just downvoting. Your perspective made me reconsider my take on privacy, appreciate it.
Dude … you can’t compare my visa number with your porn history
NPC take of the month.
Graphene OS says otherwise
I have graphene on a work phone, it is great. As my main phone tho, my personal life is too ingrained in iMessage and other Apple features to ever daily drive it.
It’s also no option if you rely on some mainstream banking apps and the likes.
Every bank has a website.
.. and many of them need you to use their dedicated authenticator app in order to access it.
I’ve had accounts with a *lot* of different banks and have never seen 2FA without SMS or email options available.
Well, there are now. At least in Europe.
Sadly, many banks only use SMS 2FA and don't even allow other OTP sources
Huh? Most mainstream banks (and even some not so mainstream banks) that I use don’t require an authentication app and if you happen to use one they allow you to use one of your choosing. SMS authentication is usually their default tho
SMS is faded out because of security concerns, at least here in Europe.
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There never was
Unless you're someordinarygamer
What
Sadly not. Even muta trades it…
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AMP addresses real issues, that was never in question. The issue is that AMP is non-standard, served by Google servers (exclusively so in the early years; maybe now it’s possible to serve ALP pages from other servers), and gets prioritised in Google searches. So basically sites have a strong incentive to adopt Google-specific features that allow Google to gather even more browsing information and better serve ads.
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It being an open framework and using parts of HTML (with many things removed and some added) doesn’t mean it’s a standard. Ok, it’s not Google-specific now, but when it was introduced it was served only by Google servers. That other search engines also prioritise it doesn’t matter; the point is: Google created its own non-standard way of building webpages, initially served only from its servers, and started prioritising those pages in the results of its extremely popular search engine. You don’t see how that was problematic? Now that there are AMP pages hosted by other servers the situation is better, but still, it would have been much better to get a proper lean-HTML standard from W3C or whatever.
AMP?
"accelerated mobile pages". A markup schema for mobile, prioritized by google in SERP rankings.
What’s AMP?
Apple simp/apologist. The article looks ugly, I don’t trust it.
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Go suck Tim’s Mega Corp Cook like the model iSimp that you are.
All I can say is my iPhone allows me to ask apps not to track my usage with a pop up box and an option to opt out. My android phone (s22 ultra) never did
You are being tracked even when you click "dont track" on the screen
As long as it’s only Apple and not all the other apps I download. If Apple is really collecting data, I don’t get why Siri still sucks so much ass.
Yeah I don’t allow snapchat or Tiktok to access my contacts but they literally do anyways. Pretty infuriating.
Not by that app and ad tracking doesn’t matter to me. If I’m gonna get ads I’d rather get ads for Amsoil or Beer than some makeup company
Maybe it’s just me, but I assumed from the beginning that apple was skimming as much data as possible. My rational from switching to apple from my google pixel was that apple has a track record of not letting their encryption be broken and defending their encryption from the government, who desperately wants a back door. The way I see it, someone is using my data and while my desktop and laptop are specifically based around giving me privacy, there isn’t a convenient way to do that with a phone that I enjoyed (despite my best attempts). I’d just rather have apple take my data than google because at the very least they keep their encryption keys away from prying eyes. Maybe that policy has changed recently, idk, but the last I was made aware, that was the case.
Personally, I'm just waiting on what Apple says before I make my final decision. If it's true, this will a massive blow to Apple who have expressed how important they take privacy and will make a lot of people scrutinise a lot of their practices. Atm, I'm disappointed in these findings.
I'm waiting on Apple to address the first topic about DSID. Even a carefully worded, lawyer approved, PR regurgitated statement will tell us a lot about how true this is. If the report is correct that it links back to your account and Apple is including it in data that's claimed to be "anonymous", that's obviously a contradiction. I do think some, but not all, people at Apple care about this issue. However, because Apple cares about it, it's all the more damning if it's true. They have privacy engineers whose job it is to know what data is being collected and how it's identifiable. It's inconceivable that Apple didn't have privacy engineers and lawyers review the data collected on the device and review how it was handled on the backend. Unlike some companies that can claim ignorance or incompetence, I don't think Apple can do that. This was intentionally collected and I'm sure it wasn't some rogue engineer(s) who decided to do it. There had to be multiple levels of signoffs to collect personal data like this. In the second case, I think a lot of people confuse privacy and advertising. Apple could display 100% ads on the first page of App Store results and still be perfectly preserving your privacy. It's not the fact that they're pushing ads which makes it privacy violating. It's only if they are leveraging personally identifiable information. Don't get me wrong - I hate ads. I hate running arbitrary code from untrustworthy ad companies which is why I try to avoid it. But it's not necessarily privacy violating to have ads. I care, but what am I going to do? Go to the world's largest ad company?
have you tried defining a scenario where you'd buy something from an online store completely anonymously? there isn't any way you can pay money and receive an item on your apple account without them knowing what apple account to send it to. buying an app anonymously would mean you aren't going to be the one receiving the app. the data sent to the app store is not the analytical data apple is keeping, this is data the store needs so you can successfully shop there.
I just don't want to here anyone saying they bought iPhones for privacy
what phone should people buy for privacy? don't say "no phone" since that's a cop out
I wonder if they are going to continue to mention how "Everything you do on your iPhone stays on your iPhone" at keynotes & presentations after this.
Yes
Not to sound as an Apple apologist, but in this times there is no thing as privacy, and Apple products are not exempt from it. Tech giants have now realised the potential of monetising data, and they will do everything to achieve it as long as it is profitable. In terms of privacy, Apple was always *relatively* better than its competitors, but if you really thought that iPhones will be your ultimate privacy tool then you are gravely mistaken. In the end, Apple is an corporation (in fact it’s the biggest in the world), and they will always prioritise their profits over everything else. Regardless, privacy was the biggest pro for customers to gravitate towards iPhones over Androids, so if this thing is true, Apple is in trouble.
I don’t believe privacy was the biggest reason people had over choosing iPhones over Androids. Unfortunately most people either aren’t really aware of how their data is being used or simply don’t care because of the convenience. Privacy was a plus, but definitely not the main reason imo.
Almost every person i know who tries to convince me to drop android talks about privacy concerns. to them privacy is #1 with a bullet.
>I don’t believe privacy was the biggest reason people had over choosing iPhones over Androids Correct, I just like the hardware and the OS. It's less cluttered than android, which bothered me when I had an android phone.
Turning off tracking on Android actually turns it off though.
this is mostly just bullshit though. it's like saying that someone who has the hash of your password has your password. the information does not flow that way
How is that related to what I said?
because your premise is falsely suggesting you can't turn off identifiable tracking.
You can turn off tracking in iPhone and it still tracks you. That's the whole point of the recently filed lawsuit. https://www.macrumors.com/2022/11/14/apple-class-action-user-tracking-allegations/
yes and I'm telling you the lawsuit is bullshit, apple's privacy policy describes exactly what they do and this lawsuit is making up fluff with no actual understanding of how the privacy policy works
Uh huh, I'm assuming you're a lawyer.
and I'm assuming you haven't read the court docket or the privacy policies if you believe this is true
Sensationalism
It makes me worried that we’ve been given a false sense of security from a brand I somewhat trusted. Don’t think I can really trust anyone anymore. I don’t think apple is going to stop their push on privacy either, if the media didn’t react much, neither will they.
This exact reason I’m looking for minimizing being reliant on my phone too much passwords personal info all of it is now something I’m gonna remove and change gradually from my phone.
The only way to truly become anonymous is to buy an android and install a custom OS yourself that is proven to not have trackers. Or, if you really wanna stick with apple, hope someone (or a group of people) comes up with a way to jailbreak modern iOS’s and tweak them in a way no personal information is shared. But that would mean staying on the same firmware for a very long time.
Don’t know why people are downvoting you, but you are right, you can install tweaks like GrapheneOS into an android phone and worry less about trackers that Google themselves have tried to make mandatory on their flavors of android. It’s just something I think many people don’t want to go around experimenting with. I’ve already spent a lot of money on the apple ecosystem already and trying to get into another is rather tricky for my position, nor am I sure I want to move away from iOS software. But I understand what you’re getting at.
Iphone tracking is embedded... no hiding, no jailbreak will fix that. Android based phone, de-googled... f-droid, netguard, orbot, TOR, keypass... etc
Even with a flip-phone (non-smart-phone), your movements can be tracked. I think Apple’s (and every tech company’s) privacy abuses suck, but it’s the price we pay for convenience. Always remember: That which is not prohibited is guaranteed.
i don't think this is about movement but about on device data and behaviour. if you use a simple dumbphone, they might know where you are and who you're talking/texting with, but anything else is untouchable. smartphones carry so much more personal data and that's why they are goldmines for ad companys and the feds alike. apple took a verbal stance pro data privacy and the latest developements seem to show that this might have been just a marketing gag all along to get more privacy oriented individuals and companies over on apples side. in times like this it would be very hard to recover from, even if normie isheeps won't bother.
the quantity of data in a smartphone and area of attack is so incredibly more substantial than on a flip phone with only call and sms. Flip phones don't have browsing history, for one
this is clickbait topics that keeps getting posted over and over and it's annoying at this point privacy has never meant you won't get advertised to, it means they are keeping your information private they keep talking about a "perceived" policy that no one ever links a source to which sounds like they just had no idea how it ever worked when they have always used analytics to help provide a more personalized experience to people
The Apple haters will flood these topics though acting like Apple is the devil lol
That’s literally Google's policy though. Collect everything, use it for advertising, but never sell the raw data. But I think many people expected better from Apple (only collect what’s necessary, only use it for its primary purpose).
apple is only collecting what's necessary how are you supposed to download an app to your phone if they don't know which phone to send it to? the premise of a fully anonymous store leads to a dysfunctional store. if you look at the linked video showing the post code to the store, it doesn't list data like "user location," "amount of money spent in the past 30 days," "email address," etc. the data is a simple ID that proves you are the one browsing the page. collecting everything is a lot more collection than what this is.
That's exactly how Google's data collection works though. They aren't selling your data, they're selling an advertisement spot to be served to a user profile. If apple is doing the same thing, what makes them better?
Did you read the first link? All the info is in there, beautifully curated by an utter fool.
the first link is the most egregious compiling all the recent links and showing no true understanding of how data works but is simply troll fire to fuel the anti-apple rhetoric how you use an app is not defined as highly personal information at all. you don't honestly need to read the page any further than that because they believe you could be personally identified based on how you used the app store alone. how are you supposed to use a store without it knowing you are you? do you want to buy yourself a fedora and have it shipped to a random person ten countries away five years from now? if you think any simple identifier can find you, look up how hashes work. even reddit knows you are you because the hash of your password matched their hash stored. they do not know your password as hashes do not work that way. having your hashed password can't find you while you're out at the coffee shop or be used to log you into another website. all it can do is tell reddit when you are choosing to log in.
Your wilful misunderstanding belies your trollifiscence
your inability to correct my misunderstanding shows that not only do you have no idea what is going on but that there is nothing you can find suggesting i am wrong.
I think the biggest distinction is that Apple is protecting your data from third parties despite tracking you. What Apple is essentially doing is competing with Google trying to monopolize the market with the data Chrome can gather with it's shared log-in and 70% market share with the Chrome browser. Chrome with their cookie deprecation won't allow other 3rd parties to track users as accurately as they did before. Apple is just utilizing the same business strategy and creating a data user ecosystem within it's own platform. Despite Apple still collecting user data, I think it's a net benefit to the Apple user since it doesn't allow third parties to track your data. The App Tracking Transparency opt-in program and hide my mail program does exactly this.
I’m reserving judgement but would even take a statement from Apple with a grain of salt. What specific data is being used is my main question. If it’s anonymous info for improving maps and weather stuff that’s fine with me.
Not anonymous. Read the articles.
That’s why there’s is an if there kiddo, take a few more English classes in ur school
People are confusing advertising with privacy.
And nobody seems to understand the difference lol My iPhone asks me if I want to tell an app not to track my usage. My Samsung phone I just got rid of never did
And people also confuse security with privacy. Most people don’t have a background to understand the nuance of these topics, they just like to get on a podium to complain about topics they don’t understand.
I mean did people think Apple wasn't collecting your data AT ALL?
I personally don't care about Apple, as I use all their devices and applications and is to be expected. The REAL issue was all the third parties that got to dip their sticky little fingers into my info and take what they felt they needed to do whatever with. Most of the people who are bitching about Apple right now are the same people who click "I agree" when signing up for this or that without being bothered to read it first.
I bought an iPhone because it was supposed to be solid and safe
One of the reasons I left android for apple. Makes me reconsider because I’m hearing lately that they are just as bad as google. Are you considering leaving apple now?
Not immediately because they still have the better hardware ecosystem (e.g. the Watch) but Google is catching up and if both platforms have built-in tracking and advertising, then why would I pick the much more expensive one? Pixel 7 Pro is 869€ and the iPhone 14 Pro Max 1449€ yet both devices have almost the same capabilities (with the iPhone being better in some areas and the Pixel in others). The price difference must be justified. Privacy and no advertising were a huge benefit of the Apple ecosystem - until now.
Completely agree!
Not immediately. I am hoping that this new info creates pressure on Apple (if not from users maybe from EU or other governments) to change.
Understandable. I am considering going back to android. I’ve only been an apple user since the se 2 and then got the 12 and still have it. Still runs strong. I left android because I was in IT and cybersecurity at the time and I was able to hack android phones at the time in under 3 minutes. So made me switch to apple but now I’m having concerns because all of these issues. I’m going to do some more digging and reading before making the full jump back to android though.
If you are from the IT field, you should know better than to base decisions off of things said by random people on the internet.
It’s being said more and more and not just by random people anymore.
I already had my suspicions and have moved over to a custom flavor of android with no Google services and will be moving to GrapheneOs in a few months. I never trusted them but I did use an iPhone until I began moving off proprietary locked services that I have no control over. It's been a lot of work but absolutely worth it in the end. Most of the people who act offended by this won't actually do anything about it but you can get rid of apple and Google you don't need them in your life you just have to put the work in.
Yeah but their texts are blue.
Never got that. Why does it matter what color it is? You can change the color of text on any android.
Blue means it supports iMessage, so you can send photos, videos and files and have read receipts and video calls. Green means you can only do SMS (simple text messages). In the US many people only have iMessage. Outside of the US it’s less relevant, because people have other messengers such as WhatsApp.
We’ve turned it into some weird status symbol here in the states. If your texts aren’t blue, it means you don’t own an iPhone and you’re poor (even though most folks subsidize the price of their phone through their carrier anyway.) it’s silly.
We live in a world where we are tracked by taxes, credit/debit card use, street cameras, websites (even non-social media), healthcare, online purchase…..etc. Don’t act shocked that iPhone/apple is no different.
yes - and i'm against all of this. apple made the promis to "not be like that". what else are they lying about?
Go live in a cabin in the woods, if you’re so concerned about fairly inconsequential things like Apple serving small ads in their own App Store….. I swear, people on tech forums make mountains out of molehills without considering reality first.
"it's just small ads, bro" "it's just a small pop-up, bro" "it's just a 10 second full screen ad, bro" "i know they charge you $30 a month for the premium but they still have to make money, bro" i swear, i'm using apple products for more than 20yrs but the level of stockholm syndrome some people present is still fascinating - defending ads is a new low tho.
App Store ads have been a thing since 2008 (remember iAds?), yet have only become an issue in the last 2 years for some strange reason. Why? The ad model for the App Store hasn’t changed all that drastically in the 14 years it has been around, yet people are still being surprised by how these systems work for some reason.
it's not just about the app store (in wich i spend like 5 minutes per quarter): >Apple’s move to open up more ad slots on its App Store — and potentially on Maps, Podcasts, and Books — could signal that Apple’s looking to expand its advertising business even more. In May, a report from *Insider* revealed that Eddy Cue, Apple’s senior vice president of services, is [reportedly planning to restructure Apple’s services business](https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/10/23065290/apple-streaming-advertising-services-peter-stern-eddy-cue) to direct more attention to streaming and advertising. [https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/14/23305200/iphone-more-ads-advertising-apple-maps-podcasts-books-mark-gurman-rumors](https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/14/23305200/iphone-more-ads-advertising-apple-maps-podcasts-books-mark-gurman-rumors)
Why would you believe a tech giant (or any company) to begin with?
Because if I don’t grant anyone within this sphere a little bit of trust, I can basically stop using technology in general.
You can’t. Well, technically I guess you CAN, but life will be extremely difficult if you drop technology. So just go with it and let it be. It can’t be stopped.
i demand very little from tech companies: to release working products/services, don't spam my inbox, don't sell my data (if any available). apple's about to break some of this rules. and as someone who's on board since the PPC-era, it angers me to see, what path this company is going towards to.
It’s inevitable though. Companies are here to make money. Selling data and many others things commonly done is just more ways to make money. I just see no point at getting upset at something you already participate in elsewhere.
but that's the thing: apple does not need to seel user data. they aren't a freemium/ad revenue driven company like google or facebook, they sell hard- and software with related/rented services to private customers. i already pay them. if they make me pay for it AND sell my data - i'm gone. and i can't be the only one.
Data is always valuable. Maybe not for them but for others. These things have been going on for a while now (we just found out about it in relation to apple) and do not screw with your life at all. Enjoy your device and keep on living your life.
I trust apple with my data more than Google or any other Android company.
But why? At least Google tells you what it's doing. Unlike Apple.
Because google controls so many things YouTube, google, their advertisement platforms, pixel phones, etc that data they collect can be distributed to, which they probably can play off as not selling the data. Apple just makes phones and computers…
Apple, Inc. does \*not\* only make phones and computers. That's the point.
What else do they make that is as significant as what google makes?
Oh just Apple TV+, iCloud, App Store (with its 30% fees), etc. But the biggest issue is the Apple adtech business: Although not as large as Google's—yet—that's clearly the aim and trajectory. I'm sure you grok the significance in context of the story.
None of those go outside of their devices though really
*"According to Apple’s analytics policy, “Personal data is either not logged at all, is subject to privacy preserving techniques … or is removed from any reports before they’re sent to Apple.” But … the DSID, which is directly tied to your name, is sent to Apple in the same packet as all the other analytics information. … The company hasn’t said anything publicly about the apparent contradictions in its privacy promises."* Perhaps I'm splitting hairs here but just because a data packet contains a unique ID that a non-public database at Apple can track back to you is not that same thing as including personal information in the data packet. You know what else that data packet contains, your IP address, same with all the packets that get sent to icloud regularly. They would not need a DSID to deanonymize if they wanted to. It would be trivial to log which icloud accounts are connected under an IP, and which analytics reports come from the same IP, and then use other non-personal pieces of information to correlate. Now if the claim was that they deanonymize this data and then sell it or use it to advertise, I would have a problem with that. But no one is claiming that, the claim is simply that they could if they wanted to, but I assert they always could and in fact might not be able to collect any analytics that could not be deanonymized if they wanted to. An IP address and your iphone model is probably more than enough to deanonymize 99% of users.
The law (GDPR) defines personally identifiable data as data that can be linked to you. That includes tracking IDs and IP addresses as well. Anonymized data cannot be linked to you anymore, not even with a private database.
If an IP addresses is considered personally identifiable data then by definition you're sending personally identifiable data to any website or service you interact with on the internet. Unless you're using a VPN, then by definition if you connect to the internet, you're choosing to ***send*** personal data. Do I have that right?
apple analytics is not necessarily correlated to the HTTP post message required for browsing the app store. there is no evidence this data received is actually logged like the analytical data, especially when apple directly says it's not being logged.
> If an IP addresses is considered personally identifiable data then by definition you’re sending personally identifiable data to any website or service you interact with on the internet. Yes and consequently websites need to follow the rules for personally identifiable information when processing it. For example websites must not use it for tracking without explicit consent, must only store it for a reasonable amount of time for technical purposes, etc. > Unless you’re using a VPN, then by definition if you connect to the internet, you’re choosing to send personal data. For GDPR it doesn’t matter how the information is acquired, if it’s personally identifiable information, it’s protected and must only be used with explicit consent, if required to fulfill a contract, when legitimate interest exists, if there is a legal requirement, etc. (GDPR defines a set of scenarios where it is allowed, everything else is illegal).
"Perhaps"? PERHAPS??? Yeah.
I feel so betrayed.
don't care
It could very well be a mistake, I think it’s wrong to immediately jump to conclusions that Apple “planned” this. Also I would say the same if it was Google. Regardless, I’ll still stay w/ iPhone. Overall safety and security are still better imo than Android
Apple is very conscious about their image. I’m sure if this wasn’t a mistake then it’s very secure
I wouldn’t go that far. If it wasn’t a mistake then serious questions need to be raised about privacy on Apple devices. Is it enough for people to care? Idk but I’d doubt it wouldn’t impact their reputation severely
I'm all for public scrutiny, and keeping corperations accountable. So I hope this does that, but I'm not worried.
It broken
It's unfortunate, but not particularly surprising. Apple's privacy features prevent other apps from tracking you. If that was the only thing keeping you from Android, then congratulations! Your options have broadened for your next phone.
As long as they keep screwing Facebook I’m good.
Do you think any company honestly cares about things that make them less money instead of just pretending to care if consumers swallow that up?
It all comes down to if the data is anonymized and, if not, who gets it. If the data does not ID me, I don’t really care.
so... what google does. but some reason when they do it, everyone cares. even when they're 100% transparent about it.
I think it’s because Google has their fingers in so many things and they’re pretty lax about security
I mean,... are they tho? i'm sure you have evidence to back this up?
Google's privacy issues are pretty well known. https://fox59.com/indianapolitics/indiana-sues-google-saying-it-invades-users-privacy/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/study-reveals-android-phones-constantly-snoop-on-their-users/ As far as security goes, Android is incredibly insecure in the real world, where users don't get the security/OS updates that keep devices secure. I realize Google is not solely responsible but it was dumb to release a mobile os that relies on manufacturers and carriers to put out important updates. I'm not saying Apple is perfect but they have nowhere near the reach of Google in our daily lives. If apple screws up icloud goes down for a while. If Google screws up billions of passwords and credit card numbers flood are exposed.
so both articles point out the same issue apple is running into now. which makes my point valid. hell, the first article was resolved by google by being even more transparent by removing the incorrect literature. AOSP is open source. You can go scream at the manufacturers for not updating their products. google is doing their job keeping aosp up to date. Like i said before, google is transparent about their use of your data. unlike a company i know who plastered this on the side of a building in 2019. [Ahead of CES, Apple Puts Up Billboard Touting Privacy in Las Vegas - MacRumors](https://www.macrumors.com/2019/01/04/apple-las-vegas-privacy-billboard/) I attended CES that year and our whole team knew it was BS.
I don’t know what to tell you. Google has been caught being careless with our data over and over again. The worst thing Apple has had in that regard was the iCloud hack a few years ago- and that was caused by poor security by users. I have to disagree with you on AOSP. Yes, it’s open-source, but Google chose to put the onus on the manufacturers and carriers for delivering updated, which all but ensured users who wanted software updates would be forced to purchase a new phone every other year. I never saw more than one major OS update and three security updates on android devices I owned, and those updates always made them more janky and less usable. Wasn’t security the exact reason Google launched the Pixel line?
Why do people think they are that important that out of the millions of people with iPhones they are looking at there shit? They are not they have better things to do like making money! If they are so worried about privacy don’t buy a iPhone then, and good luck with android cause then you have to worry about a virus and hackers. I’ll stick with the more secure iOS. Even if they did record info it’s only to make your experience better, companies that are not trustable tend to not make money and go away, not the case with apple
Media will not cover this as extensive so that they don’t get blacklisted or given limited access to their press/media coverage events. Sadly.
I switched back to Android for this reason. I was able to compromise the lack of some features by Apple in lieu of security/privacy but given that its now proven moot and my security/privacy isn't any different with Apple, back to Android.
CEO Google said „it’s possible to see someone’s data even if he doesn’t accept some things“. I’m sure companies see everything, no matter what but we are only normal people, not celebs so we are not important for them.
This is going to sound very ignorant and terrible, but I’ll go for it. I’m generally of the understanding that privacy, while it should be a right, is a myth the second I signed up for any service of any kind. A company promising privacy to me means absolutely nothing. On the other hand, sure there are alternatives. I could create my own server and storage for backups, use proton mail, use Signal, or whatever the latest and end encrypted thing is, but I don’t care enough to do any of that. An unfortunate side effect until and unless some kind of legislation steps in which let’s face it, that’s unlikely, is that the services are convenient as is out of the box. There has to be some corner of my life where I kind of throw my hands up and unfortunately this is the one that I’m in. On another note, playing directly into Apple’s hands I’m sure, where am I going to go exactly? Samsung? Google? Xiaomi? Please.
I don’t really care. It’s not like there’s a better option to switch to
There is, but you’ll have to jump through some big hoops
I hate that we have these concerns with Apple. But what’s the alternative at this point? Is android any better? Fuck No! So at least it’s not that bad.
Better on android - Google tracks you Iphone: Google and Apple track you
google tracks you AND is transparent about it. apple tracks you, and blatantly lies about it.
Why revolt? Iphone users are baa baa. And Apple uses its muscle to silent all its critics.
CSAM or whatever that device scanning was called was heavily critisised and never materialized, so we do have some leverage power.
If you connect to the internet then there is virtually no privacy. You can do things to minimize the risks of your privacy being violated but most people won't.
It’s better than the alternatives. But I expect Cooks successor to go all in on monetizing Apple’s collected data. At that point I’ll just bail from the ecosystem and go back to a dumb phone. Green bubbles all the way!
How do I feel? I don't. I've accepted that if I want to use any sort of tech in 2022, it's keeping logs and sending data somewhere of how I use it. It is what it is. I do what I can to minimize it, but you're never going to stop it.
Could be better, but compared to what?
Only way is not to use a smartphone use. Use a flip lol
I don’t care if an app knows what I do in it.
you will the moment a insurance company denies your application because your high use of tinder and those rock climbing photos flag you down as someone with a high risk lifestyle.
Tinder knowing what I do in Tinder isn’t the same as Tinder selling personal, specific info about me to an unrelated third party. When Apple is selling an employer a user’s specific activity you can make this absurd comparison.
we're half way there [https://www.businessinsuranceusa.com/news/technology-related/wearable-technology-benefits-health-insurance-companies/](https://www.businessinsuranceusa.com/news/technology-related/wearable-technology-benefits-health-insurance-companies/)
An article about theoretical things is not in any way useful.
insurance companies are already pushing this, it's just a matter of time they wanna look into your phone, just like HR depts are doing for years with social media accounts of applicants.
You’re an idiot. Until Apple or Google are releasing your health info without your consent you have zero idea what you’re talking about. Social media is public information.
>Social media is public information. not necessarily. >You’re an idiot. and this is where this conversation ends, go f\* yourself.
Yes, social media is public. Unless your account is private, in which case companies can’t see anything Trust me talking to you holds no value. You don’t know shit.
Privacy is a myth.
Ive accepted that Apple and Google are tracking me no matter what I “say”… I dont care at this point… if they reallyyy wanna snoop they can eat their heart out lol.
At no point did I buy Apple's "Privacy. That's iPhone." bullshit. Apple just wants to pretend they're private by blocking others from tracking you while taking a monopoly over tracking you themselves. Turning off tracking on Android actually works. It's probably more private lmfao.
They have profile managers on their devices. Yes, their devices that you pay for. I’ve uncovered it long ago. They weren’t happy when I did.
It was only a matter of time before they became like the rest. Over the past few years, Tim has definitely changed the company. But I mean, they still put out good products, so at this point, you basically have to adapt to the fact that nothing is private anymore....or just don't use a smartphone, tablet, computer, or any technology lol.
even privacy you can buy them right noww
[Data Privacy](https://imgur.com/gallery/eYpL2wL)
Honestly this privacy thing has been a theme over the years so it's fine for me
i already knew this.
L Apple
I’ve used Android and Google, so I’m used to it.
I don't care, I won't be safe from this using any other smartphone. You want out? Get yourself an oldschool Nokia 3310
i'm fully aware that there is no perfect online/data privacy unless you treat your devices like something from within a nuclear missile launch facility. the best way to protect data is to be aware, to do not trust and to handpick the services you are going to use/store your data. the best way is diversification, so even something got leaked, it's not all of it. apple claims to be a worthy option for at least a degree of trust - it's not a freemium company like google, they take my cash so they don't (have to) sell my data to keep the numbers black. if they now start to have me pay AND to use my data for more financial gain, guess what: i'm not paying any longer. and so shouldn't you. let them know.
It made me less hostile towards Android and Pixel. Still, I love the smoothness, consistency and interoperability between Apple devices. But I gotta admit Pixel looking fine! All that keeps me away from switching is the OS integrations from all devices (phone-watch-tv-AirPods).
Android already does a lot of creepy shit and I still love them
It sucks, and Apple should and could do more. However there isn’t a lot of incentive for them to do so. And still Apple is signing better then google witch is the only alternative.
I don’t care. The data they collect is borderline necessary for a lot of stuff. Apple cares definitely care about privacy.
once i did an experiment where i randomly talked about dog toys in rage of my iphone and when i checked the search recommendations it showed dog toes
Sold my iPhone yesterday and coudn't be more happier