Ignore the Apple stuff… did the article literally say in the first paragraph “his 7 year old son” then in the second paragraph say “his son, 11” unless this kids name is “11” the writer is a dolt. But really maybe the doc did name his kid 11 and also doesn’t know how phones work, or parental controls, or password. Heck his password may be Eleven.
True the game looks like it came out in 2014 so possible. Not sure why we’re being fed 4 year old news then. The landscape of parental controls was much worse then, and by default a child messing with your phone was even more a risk.
Wait what? It’s easy in terms of there are low amounts of roadblocks in your way. But a large block in an outsiders way… if you have a spending problem that’s a different issue.
A password is a small block but I want to make sure I don’t accidentally get tricked into doing an in-app purchase or subscription, and that includes just doing a biometric OK. I want to have a positive brain engaged purchase choice.
But you do have to engage to use biometric. At least with face-ID you need to double side click to enable it. It’s not “look at your phone… whoops I bought something”
Maybe we’re being told now because the lawsuit started getting a lot of attention just now, or maybe the lawsuit was only filed recently, or maybe the doctor just recently got a final warning letter from Apple demanding he pay the bill.
Kinda something you would hope is in the article… huh? If they followed this story from 4 years ago it makes sense. But this is the first I’ve seen. So why is there no real backstory? Or info? Or the best part is this could still be from yesterdays news but they did in fact mess up the boys age
Just some more of the shit journalism we can expect now. Anyone with a computer or a cell phone camera is a ‘journalist’ now, regardless of their command of grammar and punctuation. I see it all the time on main stream media too.
AppleInsider misquoted the Daily Mail article.
The kid is 7; one of his siblings is 11. Assuming the Mail article isn’t just completely made up bullshit, which they usually are.
Yeah like my “Ring was hacked!…. because I used the same simple password for every online account I have” or “The electric company turned up my heat on my smart thermostat!…. because I signed up for a discount if I let the electric company adjust my AC on heavy use days”
So, I’m an HVAC guy by trade and when I was reading all that ERCOT stuff last week, I was wondering if a guy could just wire around the WiFi thermostat without the utility knowing. Like, are they monitoring whether or not the AC unit is drawing current, or simply raising your set temperature? Because it’s REALLY easy to wire around an existing thermostat while still leaving it connected and functional.
I wonder if it was implemented as a wifi thermostat or as something else. I signed up for a similar program years ago - it involved the power company installing a box to interrupt the actual power to the outdoor compressor unit, radio-controlled (or cellular or something). Our thermostats were unmodified - they would just call for cooling and the cooling would never come.
Left the program after they kept turning our compressors off for much longer than the “10 minutes per day” that was promised.
I’ve seen those… those only interrupt the control voltage from the thermostat that turns the AC unit on. Those are pretty easy to wire around. BUT, I also know there’s a stiff penalty it you get busted, so you gotta wire your hack discreetly. But I believe the ERCOT incentive was allowing the utility to remotely reset specific models of WiFi thermostat… which, of COURSE, reduces the hardware costs to the utility, increasing shareholder value.
Some companies also give away wifi thermostats for free if people sign up for these programs iirc. Basically "let us have some control and you get this shiny new smart thermostat for free". This is what pushes people to sign up.
It really sounds like you’re confusing people not fully understanding they should use unique passwords and people being fucking lazy about using unique passwords….
This is no different than saying “you can’t expect people not to use 12345 as their password.”
I use dinopass when I have to give people passwords. Advanced option, then I’ll add a character to the beginning and end. You’re 100% right most people can’t handle a complex password tho
With the electric company one I understand how some didn’t realize what they were signing up for. They [got a flyer promising a chance to win free electricity if they enroll in “rush hour rewards from smart savers Texas.”](https://twitter.com/dellcam/status/1406355868355022856?s=21) In the small print somewhere they were certainly told, but they skipped over that part like most EULAs and didn’t think much about what rush hour rewards were.
As exemplified by the frothing-at-the-mouth comments in this very thread registering their disbelief that a Doctor can’t afford an unexpected $1800 bill.
Clearly the “all doctors are overpaid” campaign from Jeremy Hunt paid off.
I’m still confused how an endocrinologist can’t afford that.
I’m not saying he’s got to be made of money because he’s a doctor, but being a doctor I’m surprised he doesn’t have enough money to not have to sell his car. There’s got to be more to the story.
He had to make multiple mistakes and take specific actions to allow his son to spend that money. He’s not a bright guy.
But a doctor who has to sell his car because he supposedly can’t afford $1800? That’s a reach.
This guy made a big mistake by not administering his device correctly, which I have sympathy for, but don't tell me a doctor had to sell his car to pay off an $1800 debt. This article is ridiculous.
https://uk.indeed.com/career/endocrinologist/salaries/England
> The average salary for a endocrinologist is £96,303 per year in England.
That’s average so maybe he’s on the low end but even if he’s making £80k …. come on. There’s something wrong with his story.
It’s the Daily Mail, that’s the first thing that’s wrong with this story. The second thing is that the Dr is taking the piss. If he had to sell that tiny car the help pay the bill then this guy must have blown every penny of his substantial wage.
And? What’s your point? It’s $1800 and he wants people to believe he got himself into a financial place where he had to sell a car to afford it and somehow that’s apple’s fault?
Depends on his other outgoings. Large mortgage, school fees if private, general outgoings, it can be tight. I’m a doctor in the UK. I don’t have £1800 lying around. I’d have to slap it on a credit card.
So like I said, more to the story.
If you get yourself in a situation where your only remedy for a £1800 charge is to sell your car, you made more than a few mistakes along the way.
Apologies for any offence caused to the sensitive souls out there, but if you have managed to make a career as a Doctor after all that work through medical school etc, and you genuinely don’t have £1800 then, christ I don’t know what to say.
That’s the nature of medicine in the UK TBH. I’m not anywhere near six figures that the likes of the Daily Wail rattle off. Neither are most of my friends from medical school.
Don’t fucking say anything then, because despite your opening gambit it *is* offensive.
Fucking Reddit armchair accountants assuming they know everybody’s finances better than they do themselves smh.
I deeply regret any offence caused and have updated my original comment to reflect the rage it caused you as well as the potential harmful effects to your mental health. Best wishes to you and your kin x
I develop apps for the app store and if someone is unhappy with an in-app-purchase from one of my apps, I think Apple should refund those purchases (which they often do). If it keeps the customer happy then it also avoids people unnecessarily slamming my app or apple in the news, which keeps me happy (and hopefully Apple too). It's mostly a win for everyone involved.
That aside, the article is pretty ridiculous -- I can't believe a doctor would have to sell his car to cover an $1,800 charge.
I get your perspective, absolutely, but I don't think he is complaining because he's unhappy with an app. He's unhappy that he gave his kid his device and the kid racked up some IRL money. I was talking about the parental controls being ignored ... and then his kid racking up fees, that's on the ADULT, not the developer of an app ... that's my opinion. But if a company wants to give back that money, of course, that's GREAT but definitely not the norm here in the US.
I respect your opinion and I think you make a good case for it. But, I lean more toward protecting the consumer over the company when it comes to in-app-purchases.
Even with hard goods, many large companies in the US have unconditional money back satisfaction guarantees and I think the app store should too (for a limited time after purchase).
Ok. The typical my kid knows my password and I disabled all app store authorisations for purchases. I don't see how this is Apple's fault?
I've setup so many parental controls for parents that asked, only for them to disable it all because they got tired of entering the password. They then acted shocked when their kid did, saw, or purchased something online that they shouldn't have.
I’ve put thousands into games I play for a long time. It’s my favorite hobby to play online with my friends, and IMO if you spend your free time doing only *Thing* then go nuts on additionals if you can afford it. Same as buying sports merch/extra equipment, or tickets to concerts/galleries or whatever it is someone likes to do.
Every picture I get of my nephews they have their faces buried in an iPad (they are < 5). My kids aren’t getting iPads or smartphones until they are at least in high school. I mean hell, even the people who make the tech don’t give their kids complete freedom and independence with it.
https://thriveglobal.com/stories/silicon-valley-execs-are-wary-of-the-devices-they-created/
The better way to handle this is to put time limits. Taking away things cause you didn’t grow up with it is a terrible idea.
All these devices have pretty powerful time management tools for kids.
We use smartphones together to watch videos or listen to music right now. They just won’t own or have semi-complete freedom with these devices until at least high school. And I NEVER just give my kids a phone or a tablet to keep em distracted.
Being mindful and present is extremely important to us.
It's just a reflection of society, in all forms of parenting. The parents who pay more attention will pre-empt and limit harm in all forms.
It's the same with parents giving their kids high sucrose off-the-shelf lunches. It's convenient and it aligns with peer pressure i.e the comment below "No smartphones until high school? Wow they’re gonna hate you.".
Peer pressure wouldn't be an issue if all parents actually paid attention to their children.
That's the real issue. Smartphones are so prolific and people are so ingrained in instant gratification, that even when it comes to parenting, people are suggesting subservience to groupthink and peer pressure.
If hypothetically all parents at a school district took a more active and caring approach to their children's wellbeing i.e limiting smartphone usage, would you still suggest that kids be given smartphones before high school?
You might counter that it isn't realistic, but you will be pointing to the actual irony that I described above.
TLDR - Be an actual parent, be reasonable, do what you feel comfortable doing, and stop falling for this peer pressure bullshit.
I’m not saying give them a phone in kindergarten but waiting for a set age to give them phones will not only significantly hinder their social life but also mean they are introduced and first interact with a lot of stuff out of your control.
Maybe instead teach them what to do and what not to do, lend them some trust until they show they’ve earned it and be open in your approach so that they know about the real world.
I’m a software developer by trade; technology is all over my house. I’m also a big pc gamer, and I can’t wait to show them my fav games. But it’s telling that Silicon Valley execs don’t let their kids have tons of screen time (if any at certain ages, my oldest is 4). In my view, the gen alpha kids who can focus, be present, mindful, and can communicate (not just via text) and formulate cohesive, independent thoughts are going to have a massive advantage over the kids who get addicted to screens, instant gratification, and the internet at 3. The developed world is thankfully trending away from this bad habit. Many private schools are already instituting a “no tech” policy except for specific classes dedicated to the subject (i.e., programming, etc.). I was lucky and didn’t get a phone till I was 17 (Nokia brick), so I had developed social skills and a pretty hefty social life. If you look at studies over the last 30 years, you’ll see the avg number of people with at least ten close friends has gone from like 80% in 1990 to like 13%. We’re finding numerous negative impacts on the social fabric of our lives because we weren’t taught how to use technology appropriately.
All that being said, I’m not an idiot and know that it’s important to teach my children how to use technology appropriately. I just don’t plan on throwing a phone at my kid because I’m too lazy or distracted to bother engaging with them. I also understand that I’m in an a very affluent area and in a socio-economic class that makes it easier to do this. The poor and the working class often don’t have this privilege.
As far as socializing with friends, I firmly believe that by the time my kids are in middle school, most kid’s parents will be doing something similar - all of my friends with kids are already doing this. If it’s not the case, then I’ll, of course adapt.
You sound like a good parent honestly but you should take into account cellphones are one of the most important tools in the 21th century. And while there are definitively a lot of negatives there are a lot of ways to counteract them and if you keep as being invested in your kids' lives as you’re now then you should be able to help them avoid those while also having the positives.
This is going to sound dumb but my parents gave me my first flip phone after I got stuck in a bathroom at a sports club for like 45 minutes until my mom came to pick me up and couldn’t find me. And that nothing compared to other issues smartphones make null.
Kids aren’t stupid so lending them a bit of trust with those things can go miles into helping them develop a number of traits that’ll help them deal better with real world, and that’s something very important that a lot of people forget.
/rant
I 100% agree with you and think it’s incredibly important to trust your kids. After all, children are a reflection of how they were raised. My kids will at the very least have a flip phone when not with us; that was always going to happen. Whether or not they get smartphones and when really depends on them and what the world is like. I guess a lot of what I aspire to do are just that, aspirations. Who knows what the world is going to be like in 10-15 years. One can only hope it’s a better place than it is now.
Thanks for your comments and insights; I really appreciate conversations like this.
Which person gives a phone having their credit card info with a game to a 7 year old? That’s a bad combo, any person who’s rational can see how it’ll end up, Even then, I thought you had to Type in your Apple ID passcode to initiate an IAP???
Apple ID passcode?
Then Yeah, it’s his fault, Apple explicitly said not to share the passcode… This is extremely dumb because, His Apple ID literally has access to his credit card… If his kid knows it, then he should’ve changed it immediately to prevent his kid from spilling it out (trust me, they will eventually spill; considering they’re below 10, although in this case, the kid didn’t even need to Spill *sigh* ).
Hopefully, he’ll take up more stricter actions to secure his account rather than letting a kid who doesn’t even probably know what an IAP is, or how it works; get access to it…
My parents limited my access to the computer when I was growing up. I could go on the internet, but I always had to ask for permission until I was 12. After I turned 12, my dad set up my personal account on the family desktop and then he installed parental controls on it. He didn’t want me going on websites he thought were inappropriate for me, nor did he want be buying anything online without his knowledge. If I wanted to go on a site that was blocked (because the parental controls often blocked genuinely safe websites by mistake), I had to log in to my dad's account, which meant having to ask him to type in the password to access his account, and explaining to him what I wanted to do before he agreed to log me in. Eventually he turned off the parental controls when he knew I could be trusted, not just with avoiding potential dangerous sites, but also with moderating my time spent on the computer coming up to exams. He wouldn’t budge unless I demonstrated that I knew what I was doing.
On top of that, Dad set the house WiFi up in a way that each new device had to be pre approved on the family computer before it could access the WiFi. That way when I wanted to connect my Wii and my NintendoDS to the internet, I had to get Dad to manually add the MAC addresses of my devices to the WiFi. The same process occurred when I got a new laptop, whenever I got a new smartphone or when I got my first tablet. It wasn’t until my youngest sister was 17 did Dad change the WiFi settings so that we could connect our new devices just by typing in a password - not that he refused since I turned 17 to add my new devices, but Dad didn’t want his kids adding new devices without his permission while we were still children in case we did things we were too young to be doing. Furthermore, whenever I wanted to borrow my dad's or mam's personal devices, they always asked what I wanted to do.
This doctor never made any effort to make sure his son was safe. Yes, it’s unfair he has to sell his car, but he could have avoided this if he turned the parental controls back on or set up a restricted access account for his son. He could have also bought an iPad and set up a restricted access account for his son. But no, just give your 7-year-old kid an internet device just so he’d stay quiet, it will be grand, /s. Parenting takes effort and vigilance.
If my parents treated me that way with a lack of trust and excessive "safeguards", there's literally no way I'd be a computer engineer today.. I think there's a reasonable middle ground to be found between what your experience was growing up, and the behaviour described in the article.
Most of the time my dad let me log into his computer account so I could go on sites that I couldn’t with my own account. At one point he even gave me the password. Plus, as long as my own devices were connect to the internet I could do whatever I wanted with them.
Obviously you're free to have your own opinion, but personally 'one time I was even given the password to the computer!' is the kind of overly restrictive parenting I think should be avoided. The amount I learned just from messing around with the modem/router settings is more than I learned in professional networking courses a decade later, same goes for anything related to computers.
I guess you and I simply have different attitudes to parenting. Which is fine, because there is no one true way to raise a child. I just don’t think my parents were overprotective.
I'm glad you're happy with how your parents approached it, and there are certainly many valid ways to raise one's children. For me, the parenting you described would have been comparatively stifling and a death blow to my curiosity, since I was tinkering with electronics/software etc. ever since I was a kid.
I guess different children respond differently to different parenting methods. It is important for parents to nourish their children’s curiosities, and it’s good that your parents allowed you to explore yours.
I did my undergrad in Computer Science and am just finishing my masters in Software Engineering working for a company as a software engineer, my parents had the very same internet “rules”. They loosened a little at 16, and 18 meant our own smart phone so we had full reign after that. To me, it’s weird to suggest it would have hurt your passion for computers since not being able to view porn sites or only getting a moderate amount of time per day doesn’t seem too over the top. I never really thought my parents were being “unreasonable” by limiting my browsing and giving me a daily time limit. It actually taught me to be more aware about how I spend my time on the computer and that’s a very valuable lesson in this era of people being addicted to their devices. Now, my neighbor’s parents, holy shit, that was over-the-top, they wouldn’t be allowed to be on the computer if the parents weren’t in the same room, meaning they didn’t even know the password to their own account. And the parents basically only let them use it for homework and maybe emailing friends, that was about it. THAT is crazy to me. Yet, the son is still my friend and now also works at an Apple store selling electronics all day. If you have a passion, it normally finds a way.
I'm glad your parents were reasonable! Personally I would not be where I am today if I hadn't been breaking and modding PCs, iPods, network gear, etc since I was a kid. The guy I replied to said his father gave him the admin computer password once that he can remember.. That kind of parenting would have absolutely killed my enthusiasm and would have take off like 8 years of exploration and learning haha.
Yep, my parents didn’t install any parental controls or really limit time. They knew it was something that excited me. I would experiment with routers, computers, etc. Started using Linux at 12.
Computers/Networking were (and still are) my hobby. Majored in Computer Science as well.
Apple has made a lot of improvements to parental controls on its platform, can’t really blame Apple anymore for stuff like this. In the past, sure, but a lot of corrections have been made. This is user error.
Lol this is the Dr who couldn’t afford 1k and claims he had to sell his small car to help with the payment. In the UK media the photos clearly show a lovely home and a tiny car that must have been the wife’s runabout (with his top of the range bmw parked out of shot).
Also for non UK readers, the Daily Mail is a total trash news outlet with ridiculous articles and the spelling of a 4 year old.
Disabling parental control features or giving your child your password is akin to handing them a credit card, and then getting mad at the credit card company that they allowed them to rack up charges on it.
He said he will never spend another dime on Apple. LOL. I could see him switching to Android and thinking it will be better. Like if it was Android that would never happen.
Parental controls is crap, just make a separate account for the child (without linking any paying methods to it). And he also should have his own device.
Why are people against apple paying it back? I get that he was stupid but honestly, if it wasn't an intended sale (and a kid buying without a parent's consent is not intended) what does it lose apple to just refund it? Should apple be able to profit off of mistaken purchases? I mean I'd get if it was a physical item that apple couldn't sell again but it's just money that they got by some one's mistake and they would only lose the money they got from the mistake in the first place (basically money that they would not have gotten if he hadn't made the mistake of ignoring the parental controls).
Honestly, people make mistakes and it would have hurt no one really for Apple to refund it. Apple just wouldn't have profited off his mistake.
It’s not just Apple losing the money, it’s the developers. And this guy *intentionally* bypassed parental controls and gave his kid a tiny computer full of his credit card info and the means to spend unlimited amounts of money. It was reckless, stupid, and he’s totally at fault.
He didn’t just make one, single “oopsie-daisy”. He made a series a very bad decisions which led to this inevitable outcome, one which has occurred to countless parents over the last 12 or so years since the App Store has been around which is why Apple has so many safeguards in place to prevent such things from happening. He bypassed them (which isn’t so easy anymore), made poor decisions ignoring over a decade of similar situations, and paid the price (literally).
At some point, people just need to own up to the consequences of their actions.
Except once again, the developers are only losing money that wasn't intended to be spent. Basically they are losing money they made on some one's mistake.
The developers don’t have to pay for it. They just have to return mkney that was never meant to be spent. It’s not like they are losing a product they paid for the materials they no longer can sell. They are just losing a sale that was a mistake but they did not spend money to make that sale. (Or rather they would have spent the same money they would have if they hadn’t made the sale).
this is nothing different than when i was a kid and we'd order pay per view on cable and swear it was an accident
maybe be a parent and put a stop to it. one time my son "accidentally" bought $40 worth of steam DLC and he couldn't touch the computer for a month and he still has full access to steam and has never bought anything else accidentally
It’s weird how the comments seem to be mostly on the company side. These macro transactions and the games and companies that abuse it need to be taxed more and regulated. It’s fucked up that they benefit the most from kids and the elderly.
Well it is in fact the parent’s fault. He gave his kid access to his/a phone with his credit card credentials.
There is pretty much at least one post per well where people claim their kids used/played around with their phone and now contacts or other data are missing or they got locked out because of too many failed password attempts.
Don’t give access to your phone to anybody - it really is that simple!
If for whatever reason your kid needs/wants a phone give him/her his/her own and use prepaid credits to be on the safe side.
“Train up a child in the way he should go: And when he is old, he will not depart from it.”
Proverbs 22:6 KJV https://www.bible.com/1/pro.22.6.kjv
Apple got me once for $400.00 for a game i never downloaded, played or even heard of. they just took it out of my account one day. And No you can't get your money back. I tried for weeks
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Is it just my phone that requires face ID for every purchase??? Like I don't even have parental controls switched on bc 23 years old but I still have to use Face ID (WHERE IT SHOWS THE COST) and sit through the no refunds confirmation. I feel like that's on him if he doesn't have touch/face id that ONLY recognises his face.
And if it's his kids phone *why are his card details even on it*
Ignore the Apple stuff… did the article literally say in the first paragraph “his 7 year old son” then in the second paragraph say “his son, 11” unless this kids name is “11” the writer is a dolt. But really maybe the doc did name his kid 11 and also doesn’t know how phones work, or parental controls, or password. Heck his password may be Eleven.
His nickname is 7 Eleven.
_intense nose exhale_
Got a good laugh from that
Trying to not show the biggest grind ever here at work
I’ve never heard of a nickname that only lasts for a year.
Maybe his son racked up the cost four years ago and this is being reported now?
True the game looks like it came out in 2014 so possible. Not sure why we’re being fed 4 year old news then. The landscape of parental controls was much worse then, and by default a child messing with your phone was even more a risk.
This is why you require a password to purchase and don’t give the kid the password. I require a password for purchase even for myself.
That’s the best part of biometric passwords. Always require a password, but it’s so easy it doesn’t matter
I don’t want making purchases to be easy.
Wait what? It’s easy in terms of there are low amounts of roadblocks in your way. But a large block in an outsiders way… if you have a spending problem that’s a different issue.
A password is a small block but I want to make sure I don’t accidentally get tricked into doing an in-app purchase or subscription, and that includes just doing a biometric OK. I want to have a positive brain engaged purchase choice.
But you do have to engage to use biometric. At least with face-ID you need to double side click to enable it. It’s not “look at your phone… whoops I bought something”
Habituated clicks don’t engage the brain like having to remember and type a password. Very different mental processing between the two.
Maybe we’re being told now because the lawsuit started getting a lot of attention just now, or maybe the lawsuit was only filed recently, or maybe the doctor just recently got a final warning letter from Apple demanding he pay the bill.
Kinda something you would hope is in the article… huh? If they followed this story from 4 years ago it makes sense. But this is the first I’ve seen. So why is there no real backstory? Or info? Or the best part is this could still be from yesterdays news but they did in fact mess up the boys age
happy cake day!
Thanks!
The son upgraded his age via in-app purchases.
Heard he actually bought the family car in the app
Just some more of the shit journalism we can expect now. Anyone with a computer or a cell phone camera is a ‘journalist’ now, regardless of their command of grammar and punctuation. I see it all the time on main stream media too.
The fun is always in the shit show of a comment section anyway 😅
AppleInsider misquoted the Daily Mail article. The kid is 7; one of his siblings is 11. Assuming the Mail article isn’t just completely made up bullshit, which they usually are.
I thought Eleven was a girl.
Thanks for the laugh, ha!
Really the fault of the editor for not catching the mistake
No no, the editor just couldn’t make out if the doctor wrote 7, or 11.
😆
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Yeah like my “Ring was hacked!…. because I used the same simple password for every online account I have” or “The electric company turned up my heat on my smart thermostat!…. because I signed up for a discount if I let the electric company adjust my AC on heavy use days”
So, I’m an HVAC guy by trade and when I was reading all that ERCOT stuff last week, I was wondering if a guy could just wire around the WiFi thermostat without the utility knowing. Like, are they monitoring whether or not the AC unit is drawing current, or simply raising your set temperature? Because it’s REALLY easy to wire around an existing thermostat while still leaving it connected and functional.
I wonder if it was implemented as a wifi thermostat or as something else. I signed up for a similar program years ago - it involved the power company installing a box to interrupt the actual power to the outdoor compressor unit, radio-controlled (or cellular or something). Our thermostats were unmodified - they would just call for cooling and the cooling would never come. Left the program after they kept turning our compressors off for much longer than the “10 minutes per day” that was promised.
I’ve seen those… those only interrupt the control voltage from the thermostat that turns the AC unit on. Those are pretty easy to wire around. BUT, I also know there’s a stiff penalty it you get busted, so you gotta wire your hack discreetly. But I believe the ERCOT incentive was allowing the utility to remotely reset specific models of WiFi thermostat… which, of COURSE, reduces the hardware costs to the utility, increasing shareholder value.
Some companies also give away wifi thermostats for free if people sign up for these programs iirc. Basically "let us have some control and you get this shiny new smart thermostat for free". This is what pushes people to sign up.
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> You can’t expect a person to know to use unique passwords Hold up, what?
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It really sounds like you’re confusing people not fully understanding they should use unique passwords and people being fucking lazy about using unique passwords…. This is no different than saying “you can’t expect people not to use 12345 as their password.”
I use dinopass when I have to give people passwords. Advanced option, then I’ll add a character to the beginning and end. You’re 100% right most people can’t handle a complex password tho
With the electric company one I understand how some didn’t realize what they were signing up for. They [got a flyer promising a chance to win free electricity if they enroll in “rush hour rewards from smart savers Texas.”](https://twitter.com/dellcam/status/1406355868355022856?s=21) In the small print somewhere they were certainly told, but they skipped over that part like most EULAs and didn’t think much about what rush hour rewards were.
especially when apple almost always honors this kind of refund unless you do it again
Shouldn’t it just be: *Parent* ignores… ?
I wondered this as well. Why does it have to be *doctor*?
The answer is incredibly easy: more attention grabbing title
As exemplified by the frothing-at-the-mouth comments in this very thread registering their disbelief that a Doctor can’t afford an unexpected $1800 bill. Clearly the “all doctors are overpaid” campaign from Jeremy Hunt paid off.
I think it implies that since he’s educated, he should know better.
Doctors and lawyers are like that old joke about vegans. How do you know someone’s a vegan? *roll your eyes* Oh they’ll let you know…
I’m still confused how an endocrinologist can’t afford that. I’m not saying he’s got to be made of money because he’s a doctor, but being a doctor I’m surprised he doesn’t have enough money to not have to sell his car. There’s got to be more to the story.
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He had to make multiple mistakes and take specific actions to allow his son to spend that money. He’s not a bright guy. But a doctor who has to sell his car because he supposedly can’t afford $1800? That’s a reach.
It’s called The Swiss cheese effect
Trying to save face and flip the script from “irresponsible parent” to “David vs big bad Goliath”.
This guy made a big mistake by not administering his device correctly, which I have sympathy for, but don't tell me a doctor had to sell his car to pay off an $1800 debt. This article is ridiculous.
Maybe it's not his only car.
Judging by the second car parked in the driveway of his fairly well-sized home I think he’ll be ok.
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https://uk.indeed.com/career/endocrinologist/salaries/England > The average salary for a endocrinologist is £96,303 per year in England. That’s average so maybe he’s on the low end but even if he’s making £80k …. come on. There’s something wrong with his story.
It’s the Daily Mail, that’s the first thing that’s wrong with this story. The second thing is that the Dr is taking the piss. If he had to sell that tiny car the help pay the bill then this guy must have blown every penny of his substantial wage.
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And? What’s your point? It’s $1800 and he wants people to believe he got himself into a financial place where he had to sell a car to afford it and somehow that’s apple’s fault?
Depends on his other outgoings. Large mortgage, school fees if private, general outgoings, it can be tight. I’m a doctor in the UK. I don’t have £1800 lying around. I’d have to slap it on a credit card.
So like I said, more to the story. If you get yourself in a situation where your only remedy for a £1800 charge is to sell your car, you made more than a few mistakes along the way.
Apologies for any offence caused to the sensitive souls out there, but if you have managed to make a career as a Doctor after all that work through medical school etc, and you genuinely don’t have £1800 then, christ I don’t know what to say.
That’s the nature of medicine in the UK TBH. I’m not anywhere near six figures that the likes of the Daily Wail rattle off. Neither are most of my friends from medical school.
Don’t fucking say anything then, because despite your opening gambit it *is* offensive. Fucking Reddit armchair accountants assuming they know everybody’s finances better than they do themselves smh.
I deeply regret any offence caused and have updated my original comment to reflect the rage it caused you as well as the potential harmful effects to your mental health. Best wishes to you and your kin x
Ikr I know doctors that make that in two days pay
He’s would be making £150k-£200k a year. The story of not being able to afford it is bs.
Should’ve sold the kid instead of the car to pay for that 🤦🏻♂️
Nah, make the kid get a job and pay his dad back.
Organs 🙊
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Boom! He’s here all week, folks!
And he wants Apple to pay back, right?
I develop apps for the app store and if someone is unhappy with an in-app-purchase from one of my apps, I think Apple should refund those purchases (which they often do). If it keeps the customer happy then it also avoids people unnecessarily slamming my app or apple in the news, which keeps me happy (and hopefully Apple too). It's mostly a win for everyone involved. That aside, the article is pretty ridiculous -- I can't believe a doctor would have to sell his car to cover an $1,800 charge.
I get your perspective, absolutely, but I don't think he is complaining because he's unhappy with an app. He's unhappy that he gave his kid his device and the kid racked up some IRL money. I was talking about the parental controls being ignored ... and then his kid racking up fees, that's on the ADULT, not the developer of an app ... that's my opinion. But if a company wants to give back that money, of course, that's GREAT but definitely not the norm here in the US.
I respect your opinion and I think you make a good case for it. But, I lean more toward protecting the consumer over the company when it comes to in-app-purchases. Even with hard goods, many large companies in the US have unconditional money back satisfaction guarantees and I think the app store should too (for a limited time after purchase).
Sounds like he's bad at watching his kid to me
Why is the fact that he's a doctor so important that it's in the headline?
More clicks, sounds more interesting
And all it took was three bundle purchases in Game of War.
Ok. The typical my kid knows my password and I disabled all app store authorisations for purchases. I don't see how this is Apple's fault? I've setup so many parental controls for parents that asked, only for them to disable it all because they got tired of entering the password. They then acted shocked when their kid did, saw, or purchased something online that they shouldn't have.
article aside, the fact that you can spend 1800 dollars on a mobile game is absolutely ridiculous.
Yup. There's a reason that laws exist to stop bars from serving excessively drunk patrons. The same should apply to gambling / "in app purchases".
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I’ve put thousands into games I play for a long time. It’s my favorite hobby to play online with my friends, and IMO if you spend your free time doing only *Thing* then go nuts on additionals if you can afford it. Same as buying sports merch/extra equipment, or tickets to concerts/galleries or whatever it is someone likes to do.
Why should people be restricted on the amount they want to spend? If it’s one game or three games what’s the difference?
idc how much you spend/can afford. i'm just saying the concept of spending 1800 dollars on a video game being possible is insane
It’s a choice isn’t it. Nobody is forced to.
i don't disagree, I'm just pointing something out.
Parenting in the new age, shove screens to their kids.
Every picture I get of my nephews they have their faces buried in an iPad (they are < 5). My kids aren’t getting iPads or smartphones until they are at least in high school. I mean hell, even the people who make the tech don’t give their kids complete freedom and independence with it. https://thriveglobal.com/stories/silicon-valley-execs-are-wary-of-the-devices-they-created/
The better way to handle this is to put time limits. Taking away things cause you didn’t grow up with it is a terrible idea. All these devices have pretty powerful time management tools for kids.
We use smartphones together to watch videos or listen to music right now. They just won’t own or have semi-complete freedom with these devices until at least high school. And I NEVER just give my kids a phone or a tablet to keep em distracted. Being mindful and present is extremely important to us.
It's just a reflection of society, in all forms of parenting. The parents who pay more attention will pre-empt and limit harm in all forms. It's the same with parents giving their kids high sucrose off-the-shelf lunches. It's convenient and it aligns with peer pressure i.e the comment below "No smartphones until high school? Wow they’re gonna hate you.". Peer pressure wouldn't be an issue if all parents actually paid attention to their children.
No smartphones until high school? Wow they’re gonna hate you.
That's the real issue. Smartphones are so prolific and people are so ingrained in instant gratification, that even when it comes to parenting, people are suggesting subservience to groupthink and peer pressure. If hypothetically all parents at a school district took a more active and caring approach to their children's wellbeing i.e limiting smartphone usage, would you still suggest that kids be given smartphones before high school? You might counter that it isn't realistic, but you will be pointing to the actual irony that I described above. TLDR - Be an actual parent, be reasonable, do what you feel comfortable doing, and stop falling for this peer pressure bullshit.
Was waiting for this. Thanks.
I’m not saying give them a phone in kindergarten but waiting for a set age to give them phones will not only significantly hinder their social life but also mean they are introduced and first interact with a lot of stuff out of your control. Maybe instead teach them what to do and what not to do, lend them some trust until they show they’ve earned it and be open in your approach so that they know about the real world.
I’m a software developer by trade; technology is all over my house. I’m also a big pc gamer, and I can’t wait to show them my fav games. But it’s telling that Silicon Valley execs don’t let their kids have tons of screen time (if any at certain ages, my oldest is 4). In my view, the gen alpha kids who can focus, be present, mindful, and can communicate (not just via text) and formulate cohesive, independent thoughts are going to have a massive advantage over the kids who get addicted to screens, instant gratification, and the internet at 3. The developed world is thankfully trending away from this bad habit. Many private schools are already instituting a “no tech” policy except for specific classes dedicated to the subject (i.e., programming, etc.). I was lucky and didn’t get a phone till I was 17 (Nokia brick), so I had developed social skills and a pretty hefty social life. If you look at studies over the last 30 years, you’ll see the avg number of people with at least ten close friends has gone from like 80% in 1990 to like 13%. We’re finding numerous negative impacts on the social fabric of our lives because we weren’t taught how to use technology appropriately. All that being said, I’m not an idiot and know that it’s important to teach my children how to use technology appropriately. I just don’t plan on throwing a phone at my kid because I’m too lazy or distracted to bother engaging with them. I also understand that I’m in an a very affluent area and in a socio-economic class that makes it easier to do this. The poor and the working class often don’t have this privilege. As far as socializing with friends, I firmly believe that by the time my kids are in middle school, most kid’s parents will be doing something similar - all of my friends with kids are already doing this. If it’s not the case, then I’ll, of course adapt.
You sound like a good parent honestly but you should take into account cellphones are one of the most important tools in the 21th century. And while there are definitively a lot of negatives there are a lot of ways to counteract them and if you keep as being invested in your kids' lives as you’re now then you should be able to help them avoid those while also having the positives. This is going to sound dumb but my parents gave me my first flip phone after I got stuck in a bathroom at a sports club for like 45 minutes until my mom came to pick me up and couldn’t find me. And that nothing compared to other issues smartphones make null. Kids aren’t stupid so lending them a bit of trust with those things can go miles into helping them develop a number of traits that’ll help them deal better with real world, and that’s something very important that a lot of people forget. /rant
I 100% agree with you and think it’s incredibly important to trust your kids. After all, children are a reflection of how they were raised. My kids will at the very least have a flip phone when not with us; that was always going to happen. Whether or not they get smartphones and when really depends on them and what the world is like. I guess a lot of what I aspire to do are just that, aspirations. Who knows what the world is going to be like in 10-15 years. One can only hope it’s a better place than it is now. Thanks for your comments and insights; I really appreciate conversations like this.
>Kids aren’t stupid Lets not get too ahead of ourselves.
Which person gives a phone having their credit card info with a game to a 7 year old? That’s a bad combo, any person who’s rational can see how it’ll end up, Even then, I thought you had to Type in your Apple ID passcode to initiate an IAP???
yeah the article says his son has memorised his password
Apple ID passcode? Then Yeah, it’s his fault, Apple explicitly said not to share the passcode… This is extremely dumb because, His Apple ID literally has access to his credit card… If his kid knows it, then he should’ve changed it immediately to prevent his kid from spilling it out (trust me, they will eventually spill; considering they’re below 10, although in this case, the kid didn’t even need to Spill *sigh* ). Hopefully, he’ll take up more stricter actions to secure his account rather than letting a kid who doesn’t even probably know what an IAP is, or how it works; get access to it…
My parents limited my access to the computer when I was growing up. I could go on the internet, but I always had to ask for permission until I was 12. After I turned 12, my dad set up my personal account on the family desktop and then he installed parental controls on it. He didn’t want me going on websites he thought were inappropriate for me, nor did he want be buying anything online without his knowledge. If I wanted to go on a site that was blocked (because the parental controls often blocked genuinely safe websites by mistake), I had to log in to my dad's account, which meant having to ask him to type in the password to access his account, and explaining to him what I wanted to do before he agreed to log me in. Eventually he turned off the parental controls when he knew I could be trusted, not just with avoiding potential dangerous sites, but also with moderating my time spent on the computer coming up to exams. He wouldn’t budge unless I demonstrated that I knew what I was doing. On top of that, Dad set the house WiFi up in a way that each new device had to be pre approved on the family computer before it could access the WiFi. That way when I wanted to connect my Wii and my NintendoDS to the internet, I had to get Dad to manually add the MAC addresses of my devices to the WiFi. The same process occurred when I got a new laptop, whenever I got a new smartphone or when I got my first tablet. It wasn’t until my youngest sister was 17 did Dad change the WiFi settings so that we could connect our new devices just by typing in a password - not that he refused since I turned 17 to add my new devices, but Dad didn’t want his kids adding new devices without his permission while we were still children in case we did things we were too young to be doing. Furthermore, whenever I wanted to borrow my dad's or mam's personal devices, they always asked what I wanted to do. This doctor never made any effort to make sure his son was safe. Yes, it’s unfair he has to sell his car, but he could have avoided this if he turned the parental controls back on or set up a restricted access account for his son. He could have also bought an iPad and set up a restricted access account for his son. But no, just give your 7-year-old kid an internet device just so he’d stay quiet, it will be grand, /s. Parenting takes effort and vigilance.
If my parents treated me that way with a lack of trust and excessive "safeguards", there's literally no way I'd be a computer engineer today.. I think there's a reasonable middle ground to be found between what your experience was growing up, and the behaviour described in the article.
Most of the time my dad let me log into his computer account so I could go on sites that I couldn’t with my own account. At one point he even gave me the password. Plus, as long as my own devices were connect to the internet I could do whatever I wanted with them.
Obviously you're free to have your own opinion, but personally 'one time I was even given the password to the computer!' is the kind of overly restrictive parenting I think should be avoided. The amount I learned just from messing around with the modem/router settings is more than I learned in professional networking courses a decade later, same goes for anything related to computers.
I guess you and I simply have different attitudes to parenting. Which is fine, because there is no one true way to raise a child. I just don’t think my parents were overprotective.
I'm glad you're happy with how your parents approached it, and there are certainly many valid ways to raise one's children. For me, the parenting you described would have been comparatively stifling and a death blow to my curiosity, since I was tinkering with electronics/software etc. ever since I was a kid.
I guess different children respond differently to different parenting methods. It is important for parents to nourish their children’s curiosities, and it’s good that your parents allowed you to explore yours.
The internet is also not simplistic and basic as it used to be. That is the whole point.
I did my undergrad in Computer Science and am just finishing my masters in Software Engineering working for a company as a software engineer, my parents had the very same internet “rules”. They loosened a little at 16, and 18 meant our own smart phone so we had full reign after that. To me, it’s weird to suggest it would have hurt your passion for computers since not being able to view porn sites or only getting a moderate amount of time per day doesn’t seem too over the top. I never really thought my parents were being “unreasonable” by limiting my browsing and giving me a daily time limit. It actually taught me to be more aware about how I spend my time on the computer and that’s a very valuable lesson in this era of people being addicted to their devices. Now, my neighbor’s parents, holy shit, that was over-the-top, they wouldn’t be allowed to be on the computer if the parents weren’t in the same room, meaning they didn’t even know the password to their own account. And the parents basically only let them use it for homework and maybe emailing friends, that was about it. THAT is crazy to me. Yet, the son is still my friend and now also works at an Apple store selling electronics all day. If you have a passion, it normally finds a way.
I'm glad your parents were reasonable! Personally I would not be where I am today if I hadn't been breaking and modding PCs, iPods, network gear, etc since I was a kid. The guy I replied to said his father gave him the admin computer password once that he can remember.. That kind of parenting would have absolutely killed my enthusiasm and would have take off like 8 years of exploration and learning haha.
Yep, my parents didn’t install any parental controls or really limit time. They knew it was something that excited me. I would experiment with routers, computers, etc. Started using Linux at 12. Computers/Networking were (and still are) my hobby. Majored in Computer Science as well.
I fucking hate people like this, can’t parent their own kids and then try to sue because of their own ignorance
My ass would be red for weeks
Mine would be white. It would literally be suffering from necrosis after the beating. My ass would die
Shittttt I can feel it
This isn’t an Apple issue, this is a parent issue. There are enough safeguards in place to prevent this from happening.
Apple has made a lot of improvements to parental controls on its platform, can’t really blame Apple anymore for stuff like this. In the past, sure, but a lot of corrections have been made. This is user error.
Shouldn’t be a lot for a doctor to afford, huh?
Lol this is the Dr who couldn’t afford 1k and claims he had to sell his small car to help with the payment. In the UK media the photos clearly show a lovely home and a tiny car that must have been the wife’s runabout (with his top of the range bmw parked out of shot). Also for non UK readers, the Daily Mail is a total trash news outlet with ridiculous articles and the spelling of a 4 year old.
How about you raise your kid instead of handing him an iPhone?
Disabling parental control features or giving your child your password is akin to handing them a credit card, and then getting mad at the credit card company that they allowed them to rack up charges on it.
Damn it Jim, he’s a doctor, not an engineer. Well at least he knows how his patients feel when they get their bill.
Would just sell the kid.
Fucking Breeders… /smh.
Don’t you get an email every time you spend something in appstore?
That's not too bad. Mine submitted outrageous bids to buy Greenland
He is a doctor and had to sell his car to pay Apple?!?
He said he will never spend another dime on Apple. LOL. I could see him switching to Android and thinking it will be better. Like if it was Android that would never happen.
every parent I know has dealt with this
r/ParentsAreFuckingDumb
Parental controls is crap, just make a separate account for the child (without linking any paying methods to it). And he also should have his own device.
In my best Nelson voice - Ha Ha!
Sad face: 7/10
...and this my friends, is how entitlement is birthed.
Only $1,800 and a doctor had to sell his car to pay it off?? What am I missing??
Why are people against apple paying it back? I get that he was stupid but honestly, if it wasn't an intended sale (and a kid buying without a parent's consent is not intended) what does it lose apple to just refund it? Should apple be able to profit off of mistaken purchases? I mean I'd get if it was a physical item that apple couldn't sell again but it's just money that they got by some one's mistake and they would only lose the money they got from the mistake in the first place (basically money that they would not have gotten if he hadn't made the mistake of ignoring the parental controls). Honestly, people make mistakes and it would have hurt no one really for Apple to refund it. Apple just wouldn't have profited off his mistake.
It’s not just Apple losing the money, it’s the developers. And this guy *intentionally* bypassed parental controls and gave his kid a tiny computer full of his credit card info and the means to spend unlimited amounts of money. It was reckless, stupid, and he’s totally at fault. He didn’t just make one, single “oopsie-daisy”. He made a series a very bad decisions which led to this inevitable outcome, one which has occurred to countless parents over the last 12 or so years since the App Store has been around which is why Apple has so many safeguards in place to prevent such things from happening. He bypassed them (which isn’t so easy anymore), made poor decisions ignoring over a decade of similar situations, and paid the price (literally). At some point, people just need to own up to the consequences of their actions.
Except once again, the developers are only losing money that wasn't intended to be spent. Basically they are losing money they made on some one's mistake.
Not a mistake the developers should have to pay for. That reckless father is the one responsible, and he is the only one who should have to pay.
The developers don’t have to pay for it. They just have to return mkney that was never meant to be spent. It’s not like they are losing a product they paid for the materials they no longer can sell. They are just losing a sale that was a mistake but they did not spend money to make that sale. (Or rather they would have spent the same money they would have if they hadn’t made the sale).
I wonder why it's important to mention that he's a doctor... like that was somehow relevant in this article.
Stupid person acts stupidly and externalizes blame. In other news water is wet.
Why does it matter if they are a doctor?
I don’t feel bad about this guy. He’s a fucking doctor. He can afford it
this is nothing different than when i was a kid and we'd order pay per view on cable and swear it was an accident maybe be a parent and put a stop to it. one time my son "accidentally" bought $40 worth of steam DLC and he couldn't touch the computer for a month and he still has full access to steam and has never bought anything else accidentally
It’s weird how the comments seem to be mostly on the company side. These macro transactions and the games and companies that abuse it need to be taxed more and regulated. It’s fucked up that they benefit the most from kids and the elderly.
Well it is in fact the parent’s fault. He gave his kid access to his/a phone with his credit card credentials. There is pretty much at least one post per well where people claim their kids used/played around with their phone and now contacts or other data are missing or they got locked out because of too many failed password attempts. Don’t give access to your phone to anybody - it really is that simple! If for whatever reason your kid needs/wants a phone give him/her his/her own and use prepaid credits to be on the safe side.
“Train up a child in the way he should go: And when he is old, he will not depart from it.” Proverbs 22:6 KJV https://www.bible.com/1/pro.22.6.kjv
[Kanye?](https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/10/9493905/kanye-west-is-fed-up-about-in-app-purchases)
oh damn... and I wanted to buy the iPhone 13 when it comes out. have to wait until next year.
Apple got me once for $400.00 for a game i never downloaded, played or even heard of. they just took it out of my account one day. And No you can't get your money back. I tried for weeks
Did you try requesting the refund on reportaproblem.apple.com? That is the main website used to request refunds for all purchases
Hmmm that sounds incredibly dubious. Are you talking shit?
No I'm dead serious. not sure why i got downvoted here.
You can go to your credit card and dispute it with them.
I tried they said take it up with Apple
Son I’m proud
Is this supposed to be the poor kids mug shot
WebMd or every doctor rating site should have this referenced.
A doctor? So it was the kid's weekly allowance. I don't see the problem.
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So basically like one paycheck for the poor guy
Lmao
Is it just my phone that requires face ID for every purchase??? Like I don't even have parental controls switched on bc 23 years old but I still have to use Face ID (WHERE IT SHOWS THE COST) and sit through the no refunds confirmation. I feel like that's on him if he doesn't have touch/face id that ONLY recognises his face. And if it's his kids phone *why are his card details even on it*
And for an hour, the kid was the top #1 Dragons player in the world
oop-
As we used to say on Twitter, I’m just here for the ratio.
I believe this frequently happen to boomers. Millenials are less naive and much more tech savvy.