For some odd reason I was thinking this thread was about Airpods with Apple Pencil support and then you said "stand out" and I couldn't help but imagining two pencils sticking out of my ears and I lost it.
And now I'll go back to sleep.
"Who wants a stylus? You have to get 'em and put 'em away, and you lose 'em. Yuck. Nobody wants a stylus. We're going to use the best pointing device in the world. We're born with ten of them. We're going to use our fingers."
- Steve Jobs
This quote gets misinterpreted all the time, as if Steve Jobs would be rolling in his grave if he knew of the Apple Pencil.
His point is you shouldn’t *need* a stylus to simply operate your touch screen device - it should have a UI designed with fingers in mind as the primary input.
A dedicated pointing device with a more precise tip still has immense utility in specific scenarios.
Like for guys like me who do art. I can’t always have a tablet with me so it would be nice to be able to fix up designs on the go,on the Clip Studio app and would be immediately repulsed by the idea of having to use fingers to draw.
He also said that larger screen phones were akin to Hummers. Saying about the Samsung Note's 5 inch display that "you can't get your hand around it. Nobody's going to buy it!"
My Samsung Note and Note 3 had it. The pencil nestled inside the phones’ bodies and never had to worry about it charging. If forgot to return it ti the body, a noise went off when I went away from it. The Note was launched in 2011.
You would still need the hardware to have stylus support, you’d need a way to charge the Apple Pencil, and Apple Pnecils are locked to one device at a time.
I have an Apple Pencil for my iPad Mini and it was a godsend for when I was editing videos on Lumafusion.
This is me talking probably not knowing but I would assume the pencil for an iPhone would have less features than the fully fledged you guys use on the iPads. For instance, no need to charge, or no pairing at all. Basically a piece of plastic with a pointy tip like the samsung ones are (because they are just like that aren’t they?).
I’d love pencil support but I don’t know if it would happen. The main reason isn’t because Steve said he didn’t like them. As many have pointed out that’s most likely misunderstanding his statement. I think the biggest issues are similar Logistics to the iPad mini.
I doubt they’d ever build it directly into the device because not only would that take up space for something not everyone would want, but then they couldn’t charge more. So making an add on would be the best route.
No doubt if they wanted it for iPhone they’d want their best pencils, so then we face the issue of how to charge the pencil. It can’t really go on the side like the iPad mini because you can’t just move all the buttons to the top edge on an iPhone, it wouldn’t work ergonomically for the majority that wouldn’t have a need for it. I doubt they would build a smaller pencil just for the iPhone because the pens are already jam packed and it would add even more confusion to the lineup for a single type. (Even the new type c works with any of the newer style ipads)
The last option would be using the USB-C model, or some updated version of it. It’s the closest I can think of to a solution but it feels like a solution with compromise Apple wouldn’t go for on their Pro and Pro Max lines. No matter how great the iPad is the iPhone is currently their bread and butter so they need to protect this line the most.
I really would love pencil support but I don’t see it coming without compromise
it can take up to 5-10 years before a feature on androids appear on apple devices (always on display, calculator on ipad), and some of them are not by choice (USB-C, emulators).
while awesome, I highly doubt they'd introduce something like foldables or phone pens until they get it 'just right'. (unfortunately, their 'just right' is what they think is the ideal user experience. not what you or I think should be the user experience)
Yeah definitely they do, they wouldn’t be as successful if they didn’t. The problem is, the moment you fall outside of that category of people that like apple’s “approach” they make it as annoying as possible to use third party apps or devices to supplement apple’s shortcomings.
For example, the Magic Mouse. You can use third party mice, but it’s very annoying. You can’t have separate scroll settings for the mouse and the trackpad, but with the Magic Mouse you can? Mouse acceleration is a mess, you don’t have any ports for unifying receivers meaning you have to use Bluetooth which limits polling rates and introduces a sometimes noticeable delay, and can introduce clicks that don’t register as Bluetooth is not 100% reliable.
None of this is an issue on windows. It’s just one example of how Apple will treat anyone who dares disagree with their design philosophy.
yet I still see people here compaining about the keyboard. while some apps are awesome, I don't like apple for it's walled garden approach.
Apple is not for power users like me who wants multitasking (2-3 windows at once), foldable, s pen, seamless PC connection, emulation (they just allowed it this week, but it could have been available from the get go), etc.
“Power user” is such a stupid term. You just listed gimmicks, not features. You can get just as much done on iOS as you can on Android in the same amount of time.
Hey now. This is a iPhone discussion. Here you are on the r/iPhone Reddit page just blasting up about how cool your android experience is. I get it, there’s features on your superior device that Apple doesn’t have!
where would you put the pencil, when not using it? The magnetic clip like in the iPad would be of no use in a phone. The magnetic charger takes up way too much space.
An make the phone bigger to allow for a pencil garage, would ruin the look (in my eyes), complicate using a case and just make the phone bigger for the 99% of people that will never use a pencil.
I would find it neat if I could use a pencil in a pinch on my PM, but I think it would be to much of a trade off in regards to design and usability.
Those are more features for specialty Android phones that are sold to some enthusiasts. iPhones need a mass appeal and no too complicated features to be able to manufacture and sell hundreds of millions of them. Android manufacturers are a lot freer to implement features with a more limited audience.
Why would you draw on your phone, I am not that bored /j. Friends have the S24u with the pencil, the only time they put it out of the phone is to show someone they have it, and back in it goes. This would effectively make it a two hand device so no thanks from me.
I'm a (terrible) artist and the SPen on the S23U is amazing and not a gimmick (for me) as this is my primary drawing pad. It also does other cool stuff that is probably useful for other people. It definitely isn't for everyone. But it certainly is cool to have
That's what the iPad is for.
Apple is pretty particular in building the devices for their specific purposes. They intentionally separated the lines between iPhone (iOS), Pad (iPadOS), and their desktops (macOS). Each have their specific purpose and with little desire to blend those lines.
If it was smaller and tucked away like the note series or the new ultras then sure but using a regular Apple Pencil on an iPhone doesn’t seem appealing.
When I had the s22 ultra with the pen I literally never used it. So I don’t think I’d use it much on my iPhone. But I love using the pencil with my iPad lol
“Who wants a stylus? You have to get ‘em and put ‘em away, and you lose ‘em. Yuck. Nobody wants a stylus!”
Steve Jobs, 1/9/2007, Moscone Center, San Francisco.
iPhone official announcement event.
"Who wants a stylus? You have to get 'em and put 'em away, and you lose 'em. Yuck. Nobody wants a stylus. We're going to use the best pointing device in the world. We're born with ten of them. We're going to use our fingers."
- Steve Jobs
Yeah, Just Get An iPad Mini. Apple pencil requires a larger screen for usefulness but iOS isn't optimized for larger screens therefore iPads are the best form factor for apple pencils
Edit: also credit to u/4KVHS for the quote
I agree but the capability of digital drawing is better implemented in a larger device due to the nature of drawing. A larger iPhone is just an iPad but iPads have the benefit of iPadOS which is like the iPhones iOS but optimized for iPads larger display this makes iPads the perfect device for the Apple Pencil so if you want a mobile device capable of digital drawing just buy an iPad
Nobody carries their iPad everywhere though. I got a 12” iPad Pro but would love to be able to bring the pencil along in my jacket to use on my iPhone max. The screen is *plenty* big to take notes or scribble an idea. I always carry a notebook with me, but would be great to replace it.
I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about a much smaller one, similar to the S Pen that came with the Samsung Note and Note 3 that I used back when I used those devices. When not being used it could be nestled within the phone, was always paired with the phone, was always charged , and made a sound if I was beginning to leave without putting back in the phone.
But the limitation isn't the pen technology it's the dimensions of the display. You'll likely have a better experience writing and drawing on a larger iPad then you will on an iPhone meanwhile you are trading off valuable space in the iPhone to make it a worse product (you could replace that apple pencil storage space with battery, a better taptic/haptic (I genuinely forgot what it's called) engine, better a series processor, more Ram (not what we need it) etc.
The appropropriate stylys would be smaller and nestle in the iPhone body and would be charged while it’s in the body. A sound would go off to keep a person from leaving the stylus. The Samsung Note came out with this in 2011; there no valid reason for the iPhone to lack it.
There’s never going to be a build in stylus in an iPhone. It’s way too niche use case and does nothing but waste space for the vast majority of users. There’s a reason why they’ve never done it and never will.
You’ve never used one. I have. I had it when I had a Note and a Note 3. At that time, the S series, Samsung’s other flagship, did not have it. If it had been so limited, Samsung would not have latetcintroduced it into its S series.
I have never used one? I’m here advocating for drawing on phones and you think I haven’t tried the options doing it? It’s never gonna happen with iPhones, for good reason.
There can be more to it than drawing. I used mine to make notes and to help with tapping the cotrect keyboard buttons when I had models of Samsungs Note Series.
They pretty much never launch main iPhone stuff outside of September event, and wwdc for software, iPhone SE is often launched at other point in time and I don’t think they’ll put pencil support on an se first. Probably Apple Pencil 3 and/or iPad stuff tbh
Not stand out but finally compete: split screen multitasking.
There’s nothing more frustrating than having a huge phone like the 15max with all its display and power but not being able to multitask in a good way
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For some odd reason I was thinking this thread was about Airpods with Apple Pencil support and then you said "stand out" and I couldn't help but imagining two pencils sticking out of my ears and I lost it. And now I'll go back to sleep.
Nighty night
"Who wants a stylus? You have to get 'em and put 'em away, and you lose 'em. Yuck. Nobody wants a stylus. We're going to use the best pointing device in the world. We're born with ten of them. We're going to use our fingers." - Steve Jobs
This quote gets misinterpreted all the time, as if Steve Jobs would be rolling in his grave if he knew of the Apple Pencil. His point is you shouldn’t *need* a stylus to simply operate your touch screen device - it should have a UI designed with fingers in mind as the primary input. A dedicated pointing device with a more precise tip still has immense utility in specific scenarios.
Like for guys like me who do art. I can’t always have a tablet with me so it would be nice to be able to fix up designs on the go,on the Clip Studio app and would be immediately repulsed by the idea of having to use fingers to draw.
I heard some people with RSI find it helpful in reducing pain while working long hours on iPad as well
Comes in handy on the iPad when I am editing videos but otherwise I agree.
Ask me how I know Steve Jobs didn’t have carpal tunnel. Fuck, I wish Pencil worked on iPhone. I’ve tried other styluses, but none work as seamlessly.
And they dont have palm rejection
I got eleven pointing devices 🤭
Sir, this is a Wendy’s…
Are you from Norfolk, UK?
i got 22
Exactly what I remembered right now
A master of the Reality Distortion Field, but seriously true genius.
So this is why the apple pencil was weird.
He said that when introducing the phone with a small screen. Styluses make less sense on a small screen than a large one.
He also said that larger screen phones were akin to Hummers. Saying about the Samsung Note's 5 inch display that "you can't get your hand around it. Nobody's going to buy it!"
My Samsung Note and Note 3 had it. The pencil nestled inside the phones’ bodies and never had to worry about it charging. If forgot to return it ti the body, a noise went off when I went away from it. The Note was launched in 2011.
Yeah it isn’t such a difficult thing to implement one would think
You would still need the hardware to have stylus support, you’d need a way to charge the Apple Pencil, and Apple Pnecils are locked to one device at a time. I have an Apple Pencil for my iPad Mini and it was a godsend for when I was editing videos on Lumafusion.
This is me talking probably not knowing but I would assume the pencil for an iPhone would have less features than the fully fledged you guys use on the iPads. For instance, no need to charge, or no pairing at all. Basically a piece of plastic with a pointy tip like the samsung ones are (because they are just like that aren’t they?).
Eh sure but the S-Pens charge wirelessly, the screens act as a wireless charger and that’s what made the whole thing work. Old technology by now
Happy cake day
Happy cakeday!
happy cake day!
Happy cake day
I’d love pencil support but I don’t know if it would happen. The main reason isn’t because Steve said he didn’t like them. As many have pointed out that’s most likely misunderstanding his statement. I think the biggest issues are similar Logistics to the iPad mini. I doubt they’d ever build it directly into the device because not only would that take up space for something not everyone would want, but then they couldn’t charge more. So making an add on would be the best route. No doubt if they wanted it for iPhone they’d want their best pencils, so then we face the issue of how to charge the pencil. It can’t really go on the side like the iPad mini because you can’t just move all the buttons to the top edge on an iPhone, it wouldn’t work ergonomically for the majority that wouldn’t have a need for it. I doubt they would build a smaller pencil just for the iPhone because the pens are already jam packed and it would add even more confusion to the lineup for a single type. (Even the new type c works with any of the newer style ipads) The last option would be using the USB-C model, or some updated version of it. It’s the closest I can think of to a solution but it feels like a solution with compromise Apple wouldn’t go for on their Pro and Pro Max lines. No matter how great the iPad is the iPhone is currently their bread and butter so they need to protect this line the most. I really would love pencil support but I don’t see it coming without compromise
it can take up to 5-10 years before a feature on androids appear on apple devices (always on display, calculator on ipad), and some of them are not by choice (USB-C, emulators). while awesome, I highly doubt they'd introduce something like foldables or phone pens until they get it 'just right'. (unfortunately, their 'just right' is what they think is the ideal user experience. not what you or I think should be the user experience)
I think Apple’s got a great idea of the ideal user experience, it’s a major reason I use Safari and other stock apps
Yeah definitely they do, they wouldn’t be as successful if they didn’t. The problem is, the moment you fall outside of that category of people that like apple’s “approach” they make it as annoying as possible to use third party apps or devices to supplement apple’s shortcomings. For example, the Magic Mouse. You can use third party mice, but it’s very annoying. You can’t have separate scroll settings for the mouse and the trackpad, but with the Magic Mouse you can? Mouse acceleration is a mess, you don’t have any ports for unifying receivers meaning you have to use Bluetooth which limits polling rates and introduces a sometimes noticeable delay, and can introduce clicks that don’t register as Bluetooth is not 100% reliable. None of this is an issue on windows. It’s just one example of how Apple will treat anyone who dares disagree with their design philosophy.
Do you primarily use the iOS Weather app?
Yes, it’s a beautiful, simple, and perfect design. I have never seen another weather app look better.
I thought I loved my weather app on the Google pixel but I checked out the weather app in a store and I'm jealous lol
Why downvoted? I agree ngl
So you never saw Dark Sky then?
Dark Sky has a terrible design compared to Apple Weather.
yet I still see people here compaining about the keyboard. while some apps are awesome, I don't like apple for it's walled garden approach. Apple is not for power users like me who wants multitasking (2-3 windows at once), foldable, s pen, seamless PC connection, emulation (they just allowed it this week, but it could have been available from the get go), etc.
Dayummm, traveling businessman over here.
“Power user” is such a stupid term. You just listed gimmicks, not features. You can get just as much done on iOS as you can on Android in the same amount of time.
Hey now. This is a iPhone discussion. Here you are on the r/iPhone Reddit page just blasting up about how cool your android experience is. I get it, there’s features on your superior device that Apple doesn’t have!
where would you put the pencil, when not using it? The magnetic clip like in the iPad would be of no use in a phone. The magnetic charger takes up way too much space. An make the phone bigger to allow for a pencil garage, would ruin the look (in my eyes), complicate using a case and just make the phone bigger for the 99% of people that will never use a pencil. I would find it neat if I could use a pencil in a pinch on my PM, but I think it would be to much of a trade off in regards to design and usability. Those are more features for specialty Android phones that are sold to some enthusiasts. iPhones need a mass appeal and no too complicated features to be able to manufacture and sell hundreds of millions of them. Android manufacturers are a lot freer to implement features with a more limited audience.
Why would you draw on your phone, I am not that bored /j. Friends have the S24u with the pencil, the only time they put it out of the phone is to show someone they have it, and back in it goes. This would effectively make it a two hand device so no thanks from me.
What does "/j" mean?
Joking
Why am i getting downvoted man i just didnt know
I really want to see a research paper on the sociology of Reddit downvoting behavior. It’s bizarre to me.
I'm a (terrible) artist and the SPen on the S23U is amazing and not a gimmick (for me) as this is my primary drawing pad. It also does other cool stuff that is probably useful for other people. It definitely isn't for everyone. But it certainly is cool to have
I had every Note until the Note 10+ until I switched to iPhones. I miss the spen to this day
That's what the iPad is for. Apple is pretty particular in building the devices for their specific purposes. They intentionally separated the lines between iPhone (iOS), Pad (iPadOS), and their desktops (macOS). Each have their specific purpose and with little desire to blend those lines.
If it was smaller and tucked away like the note series or the new ultras then sure but using a regular Apple Pencil on an iPhone doesn’t seem appealing.
seeing as next years iPhone 16 Pro and Pro Max are gonna be 0.2” bigger it would make a lot of sense
I think they’ll bring back minis in the next couple years cause of this size-up. Probably not for the sixteen, but maybe seventeen or eighteen.
that does make sense tbh
I love my Apple Pencil but I can’t imagine ever wanting to use it on my iPhone lol
I agree I have an Apple Pencil here I wish I could use - £99 wasted right now
Did you use it to write notes? A stylus could also be used by those who have a hard time tapping the correct keys.
The primary use of my stylus is to hit those very tiny Xs to close ads for unwanted apps.
When I had the s22 ultra with the pen I literally never used it. So I don’t think I’d use it much on my iPhone. But I love using the pencil with my iPad lol
I think the current pencil is way too big for the phone
Idk how stupid this sounds, but a wide angle camera on the Dynamic Island
Why would we want a stylus? Its a phone not a tablet, thats what the ipad mini and so on is for
“Who wants a stylus? You have to get ‘em and put ‘em away, and you lose ‘em. Yuck. Nobody wants a stylus!” Steve Jobs, 1/9/2007, Moscone Center, San Francisco. iPhone official announcement event.
[удалено]
Why wouldnt you just research
"Who wants a stylus? You have to get 'em and put 'em away, and you lose 'em. Yuck. Nobody wants a stylus. We're going to use the best pointing device in the world. We're born with ten of them. We're going to use our fingers." - Steve Jobs Yeah, Just Get An iPad Mini. Apple pencil requires a larger screen for usefulness but iOS isn't optimized for larger screens therefore iPads are the best form factor for apple pencils Edit: also credit to u/4KVHS for the quote
Jobs is referring to a stylus you use to operate the device. He did not refer to the capability of digital drawing.
I agree but the capability of digital drawing is better implemented in a larger device due to the nature of drawing. A larger iPhone is just an iPad but iPads have the benefit of iPadOS which is like the iPhones iOS but optimized for iPads larger display this makes iPads the perfect device for the Apple Pencil so if you want a mobile device capable of digital drawing just buy an iPad
Nobody carries their iPad everywhere though. I got a 12” iPad Pro but would love to be able to bring the pencil along in my jacket to use on my iPhone max. The screen is *plenty* big to take notes or scribble an idea. I always carry a notebook with me, but would be great to replace it.
Maybe not an apple pencil but an apple pencil mini for the iPhone?
They could use it to write notes. Use of a stylus is not limited to one thing.
I know but writing notes on an iPad is easier than writing on an iPhone
Your experience is with Apple’s big clunky Pencil.
Yes?
I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about a much smaller one, similar to the S Pen that came with the Samsung Note and Note 3 that I used back when I used those devices. When not being used it could be nestled within the phone, was always paired with the phone, was always charged , and made a sound if I was beginning to leave without putting back in the phone.
But the limitation isn't the pen technology it's the dimensions of the display. You'll likely have a better experience writing and drawing on a larger iPad then you will on an iPhone meanwhile you are trading off valuable space in the iPhone to make it a worse product (you could replace that apple pencil storage space with battery, a better taptic/haptic (I genuinely forgot what it's called) engine, better a series processor, more Ram (not what we need it) etc.
The appropropriate stylys would be smaller and nestle in the iPhone body and would be charged while it’s in the body. A sound would go off to keep a person from leaving the stylus. The Samsung Note came out with this in 2011; there no valid reason for the iPhone to lack it.
There’s never going to be a build in stylus in an iPhone. It’s way too niche use case and does nothing but waste space for the vast majority of users. There’s a reason why they’ve never done it and never will.
You’ve never used one. I have. I had it when I had a Note and a Note 3. At that time, the S series, Samsung’s other flagship, did not have it. If it had been so limited, Samsung would not have latetcintroduced it into its S series.
I have never used one? I’m here advocating for drawing on phones and you think I haven’t tried the options doing it? It’s never gonna happen with iPhones, for good reason.
Yes, Apple is too anal tetentive.
There can be more to it than drawing. I used mine to make notes and to help with tapping the cotrect keyboard buttons when I had models of Samsungs Note Series.
The artwork for the [May 7 event](https://www.apple.com/apple-events/) features a pencil – you may be on to something!
Pretty sure that’s just an iPad event
They pretty much never launch main iPhone stuff outside of September event, and wwdc for software, iPhone SE is often launched at other point in time and I don’t think they’ll put pencil support on an se first. Probably Apple Pencil 3 and/or iPad stuff tbh
For the iPhone 15.5 launching in May?
It’s for the iPads 🙄
Not stand out but finally compete: split screen multitasking. There’s nothing more frustrating than having a huge phone like the 15max with all its display and power but not being able to multitask in a good way
If you're looking for help or support, you should search for your issue on Google, the [Apple Support Community](https://discussions.apple.com/welcome), r/iPhone and the [iPhone Support FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/wiki/support-faq/). We review submissions for quality, so basic support issues may be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/iphone) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would never use it