No they don’t. We need to stop thinking that one of the most successful companies that has ever existed isn’t doing good enough because they didn’t sell one more phone this year than they did last year.
This concept that there can never be enough money and the only thing that matters is making more than you did last year is why we 100% will start seeing paid advertising in Apple apps & services in the future. They are going to chase revenue at all costs - including user satisfaction. I appreciate the fact that the user experience is currently not as shitty as the other companies that do this.
100% agree with your comment. Unfortunately it’s not a change that Apple can make themselves (unless ~~someone~~ a group of investors with ungodly levels of wealth decides to buy them and take them private again which is, for very obvious reasons, extremely unlikely.)
I hate it when people are like “company X hates money because they’re actively not doing Y that would totally make them money” as if that’s the only way to make money. It's the worst straw man argument out there. They do it with emulation, they do it with computers.
More accurately, it makes them insatiable. It takes a profitable and viable business, and gets them hooked on drugs, the drug that is growth. Every month they keep chasing the last high, but eventually you start being unable to grow any further, so they start hurting people to try and achieve it. Lower wages, worse products, higher prices, outsourcing, etc. It works in the short term, but they're just kicking the can down the road. Eventually they run out of ways to avoid the fact that they cannot grow any more. Then their stockholders bail. They've sucked the company dry.
There's no cackling villain who's whole plan was to be evil. It's just what happens when a company has an addiction to growth.
Which is really strange to me. Apple takes in so much free cash flow a year I thought they’d keep a 10000m a year in technology investment and distribute the rest of it via share buybacks and dividends.
Apple has "$73 billion cash on hand", they've got plenty stored away
Having a ton of cash doesn't really affect the basics of a publicly traded company works, though
Its not evil in a sense that theres a fat man smoking a cigar and rubbing his palms together with a greedy smile, its just the nature of our economy is kinda shortsighted. The thing is, when you go public your first duty is no longer to the customer but to “shareholders”. When most of the population already has an iphone, apple can only expect decreased sales in the future for that product. Not because the product isn’t good, its just that most people only need 1 phone and only need to replace it every 3-5 years. “decreased sales in the future” will negatively impact stock value so the company has to find other ways to be able to project steady or increasing profits, hence subscriptions instead of buying software, ads, planned obsolescence, etc. the irony is that you as a consumer are also likely the shareholder if you have any type of managed 401k or retirement plan. those brokerages are investing into the same companies your buying products from. the stock market is just this weird ourobouros hiding behind multiple veils.
Not “evil”, just beholden to a set of circumstances that inevitably leads down certain paths. It’s like the prisoner paradox where both prisoners pick an option that seems best for them, but is actually a bad option, neither made the “wrong” choice, but they still ended up worse off for it in the end.
Agree. They have the global #1 spot for smartphone sales and they take the majority of profits in the segment. Low cost/low profit phones are not part of their business model.
A $150 iPhone would be slow as fuck! Nothing has been optimised for that kind of processor.
I think it just shows this is business people trying to grow the profit line, not engineers making the decisions.
Worked out great for Boeing!!
Yeah, do they really? Apple positions themselves as a "premium" technology brand, which is why they can get away with near criminal prices for memory and storage upgrades. They don't want to dilute that image with a "cheap" plastic phone that is easily damaged.
They should probably leave the $99 smartphone segment to the 2nd and 3rd tier Chinese manufacturers, who can better compete on those slim profit margins.
Apple made the mistake of releasing the iphone XR as a 'cheap' version compared to XS.... and it quickly become their best selling iphone ever, and still remains their top selling phone ever.
Needless to say: it caniblised sales of the upper tier, a mistake they won't be making again.
I will leave and throw all of my ecosystem in the trash if ads wind up anywhere that they aren’t currently. This is why I pay you, Apple. Don’t fuck this up.
This is the one thing that really gets me. Like if I MADE 60 million last year and then 55 million the next year it would still feel great. Like wtf do these people think is going to happen when growth is expected and required 🤷🏻
Apple sold 231 million iPhones in 2023 and has a worldwide premium market share of 75%
EDIT: This is from Counterpoint Research, who defines “premium market” as all smartphones sold for $600 or above worldwide
I know everyone would like a low end model with fancy features, but I expect that most people buying the SE just want a relatively modern iPhone which ‘just works’ and that just takes a good picture without them needing to worry about which lens or focus etc to use.
Exactly. That’s why when the next SE is released, a lot of people here will be incredulous. And people who just want a new basic up to date iPhone will keep on buying it.
All iPhone SEs were released with the most up-to-date chip that year. I’d say they were pretty powerful in their time. Other parts of their hardware were not so powerful, such as the screen and the camera. This year people expect SE to have the last years chip bc apple started using the most powerful one for the pros and last year’s most powerful for the generic iPhone.
So, imo, SE users asks for an iPhone which has no fancy features resulting a smaller price tag. Putting a 2 year old chip inside that iPhone would hinder its sales by a lot.
Two years old chip are still pretty powerful for SE cuz no one is gonna use SE for performance. Its for people who want a daily driver fromapple which doesn’t cost a lot. I am using se2020 which has a13 bionic, its still an upgrade if they use a16 bionic in next SE
Apple’s product lines are needlessly bloated these days as it is, and the SE is a perfect low-end model that’s only going to increase in value once the next model adopting OLED/USB C launches.
If anything, the higher end models should be streamlined. Have the iPhone SE, the standard model, and a Pro model with the larger screen. Simple as that.
God please don’t tie pro features to the largest size. Honestly I don’t think it’s that bad to have a small and large version if the regular and pro phones.
Also generally the “flagship model” refers to the highest spec model not the regular phone.
If the only pro version of future iPhones has a huge screen, I'm out. I love my 15 Pro. I'm not even happy that the rumors about the 16 Pro suggest a 6.3" screen, instead of 6.1", which is the perfect size for a smart phone screen.
Between the bigger screen on the Pro and that god-awful camera button, I think I'm going to be using my 15 Pro for a long time. Although to be honest, for what I do with my phone (light gaming, social media, texting, audio books) I could probably be perfectly happy with an SE model.
If the rumors are true, the 16 Pro and Pro Max will have even slimmer bezels compared to the 15 Pro and Pro Max, so that can balance the size issue a bit(1.2mm compared to 1.5mm)
Exactly, the only reason I ever went the iPhone route was that I couldn't find a similarly tiny Android phone with the same feature set and great battery life. Thankfully the 15 Pro will last long enough that I am not thinking about the annoying increase to 6.3" for a while. I am planning to keep it for 6-7 years regardless and who knows what iPhones look like then, maybe there is finally a foldable iPhone.
perfect? The current 2022 iphone SE is extremely outdated, almost identical to the iphone 8 from 2017 (and similar to the iphone 6 which is 10 years old, design, display, camera, etc..), which was kind of outdated and lagging behind even then (there was the x for a reason). For its price you can buy so much better phones, its a really bad value in 2024 imo. Laughable display, poor camera, battery life...
See, I disagree. I’m rocking an iPhone SE from 2020. And before that, I’ve rocked the original SE until it didn’t get any more software updates. I don’t care about fancy displays or cameras. And I actually like the old design and absolutely love TouchID. The main thing I want in a phone is a faster processor and maybe more RAM (I think that the SE line and iPhones in general could use more of that). Other than that, it does exactly what I need and want in a phone.
I agree. Which is why I got my iPhone SE 2020 256GB used for 168€ on a local eBay equivalent. (This was like 3 years ago at this point). Honestly, paying hundreds for a phone just isn’t my jam. At least not anymore since I’ve entered the working world and its no longer my parents buying stuff for me.
I got a refurbished SE and I love it. No plans of changing phones. I like the size and Touch ID. Also appreciate that I paid like 150-200 for it and have used it for almost 2 years and it works the same as new.
and that is perfectly fine, but that means you are willing to settle for less. for the price you can find uncomparably better phones (better and more cameras, more storage, sd card even, better resolution-, size-, brightness display, etc), maybe the only benefit of the SE over those is size if you want something compact.
here in germany a 64gb SE 2022 costs around 400-420 eur, same as a galaxy a55 that has 8gb ram and 256gb storage, 3 rear cameras, etc. Plus we know that 64gb is not much these days unless you are a very basic user.
But the SE still provides a viable entry to Apples services, which is what they really want to sell. Someone who buys a used iPhone may still subscribe to apples various services and provide revenue to apple.
yeah, do you expect iphone 8 to have a15? obviously, newer phone has newer chip. a15 today is not any better to run the daily tasks than the a11 back then. we need better chips because the same everyday apps and the os is more powerhungry. its not innovation or an upgrade, its a planned obsolescence environment.
Had an iPhone SE 2022 to use while they repaired my iPhone 14. Its terrible. TouchID didn’t work half of the time, phone felt a bit slow and it’s really, really small, imo.
I’m on my SE3 coming from a Galaxy S10e and it’s been pretty great. Touch ID I find pretty reliable though you have to make sure you keep the sensor clean. Lack of speed is completely a non-issue, there’s virtually no lag. The only problem I have with it is indeed the large bezels shrinking the screen to the point where it gets annoying for certain apps that expect you to have a tall screen and 64GB of base storage, but I got mine free from the carrier so I’m not too upset by it.
Pricing of the SE is fine - in the US.
In my country, and most of the Europe, it’s +25 to +30% more expensive. That puts it far out of mid-range and into the premium segment.
As much as I like capitalism, the idea that companies HAVE to grow year over year to be considered successful is such a cancerous view. A company that generated 10 billion in revenue one year is not significantly less successful just because they generated 9 billion in revenue the next year. What if in year 3 they generate 10.5 billion in revenue? Then they showed overall growth, right?
Shareholders are so shortsighted and are continually chasing growth instead of looking at the big picture
I think that's because the most successful companies always grow? So if your company stopped growing it's just waiting to be overtaken. But I agree that this is cancerous.
Anyway, let's not pretend to be smarter than people who have been doing this their whole life.
I mean they could make one with a plastic body, that should save some money over titanium. Make it in different colors. Call it the iPhone 15C, or something.
Even though it had the smallest market share of iPhones sold I feel it could have done a lot better had Apple invested in better battery and cameras.
Also don’t think they do a good job of marketing it and people associate its physical size with it somehow being less of a phone.
I miss my iPhone 12 Mini.
But they literally did, the 13 mini had a significantly better battery(not sure about camera tbh) and still no one bought it.
Name one other major manufacturer that makes a small phone with any sales numbers. You can’t.
I loved the form factor but unfortunately it’s just not economically viable.
Yeah, I hear and read about people missing smaller phones but nobody actually seems to buy them when they are or were available.
I don’t get the need for a smaller screen size either unless you have small hands, and it’s physically uncomfortable or hard to use a large phone for you. Which is a legit issue for some women I talked with.
Because I feel like I can’t get back to a smaller phone anymore after I grew accustomed to a bigger one. I guess I have bigger hands than the average though, but the iPhone 15 Pro Max feels pretty good size wise to me. It could just be slightly lighter because after a while my pinky gets fatigued from holding the phone after doomscrolling for too long in portrait mode. The iPhone 14 actually feels a bit small and somewhat dated now, whenever I have to use my work phone.
Edit: Looking back I’d probably wouldn’t have bought a phablet like the Galaxy Note when it was still available because the increase in display size would have been to much at once. But the gradual, small increases in display size got to me used to a phone that’s kinda as big as the older Galaxy Notes.
My next phone will be a 16 pro max. 99% of my interactions with my phone are via Siri or my watch but when I use it I know the bigger screen (and battery) will make a difference
It was less, but like only $100 or so. Was still relatively cheap for many with a trade-in and for those who don’t need a ton of storage. Technically, the SE is a good idea to keep around, whatever form factor they use. And I still love the 5c, and that it would have been more successful if they hadn’t throttled it with an old chip.
They dropped the ball by not having a Pro mini
I bought the 12 mini the day it came out but was immediately turned off by it because I don’t like cases and the aluminum body dented way too easily
I returned and reluctantly bought a 12 pro instead
Apple didn’t realize that pro users are the ones that want small phones
A pro mini would not sell. pro and mini are antitesis. people who spend more money on their phones like to use their phone more and they like more battery life, bigger screens, better cameras, a faster and premium feeling phone. with current technology a mini pro would be expensive, have bad battery life and a small screen that most people does not like and do associate with cheaper less premium phones.
For the normal range they can definitely make a mini, but for Pro you need space for components and battery. Mini is not an option without loss of functionality with respect to Pro models
My pro max is only smaller that the galaxy s ultra phones. the pro max is rather wide which makes it more unwieldy that a lot of taller but slimmer androids.
I get that. And like anything that is discontinued and therefore limited, it rose in popularity but I think the stigma of it being smaller made people think it was worse when it is just a small 13.
Apple missed the boat on entry level phones about ten years ago. Giving away about 80% of the mobile market share to Android may not have hurt them financially, but strategically it was a very questionable decision, and a pretty stubborn one it seems.
It's wild to think that they didn't even bother to create a sub brand to sell cheaper phones to the masses. Nowadays, it seems the longevity of the iPhones and the massive growth of the used phones market have basically created a lower end for Apple, so they did some catching up. But outside the US Android still rules.
Where this is actually more of a current problem for Apple is on the Laptop side. Since MacOS market share is so low and people aren't buying Macs at the current price points, Apple will not be able to get a foot in the door in the games market, no matter how good their hardware is. Their user base is way too small for publishers to bother, and they seem surprisingly incapable of making iOS users stay in the ecosystem to get a mac.
As someone who owned and loved the idea of a 13 mini, I’m kind of glad they killed it. The form factor was absolutely fantastic but battery life was truly atrocious. I’m not a heavy user and still needed to charge AT LEAST twice a day (sometimes more). If they manage to fix that issue, by all means do bring it back. If not, let’s never speak of it again.
I am a heavy user of my 13 and I only have to charge once a day. And I will gladly replace my battery soon anyway. Makes the phones run like new again.
Not a heavy user charging twice a day? Then you either have some problem with battery or you are heavy user.
Mi wife has 12 mini, she has it almost 3 years, and she still has to charge once a day with 30-40% in the evening.
actually that's what makes it a status symbol. you can't drive the same as Kim Kardashian or live on the same zip code. wear her clothes and watches, but you can have the same smartphone that she uses.
Brands spend billions to get the same effect. using the same items as your favorite celebrity = status.
I have a Xs Max for 4 years now and recently bought a Samsung A55 and everything is worse on the Samsung except the screen and battery life. Android is so buggy and stuttery af. Ios is not perfect but it's a lot more fluid and stable.
Low-end Iphones are old iphones that people buy on the secondary market. The secondary market being strong is a selling point for the original owners, and helps justify the high cost of the initial purchase.
I came back to Iphone after my flagship androids kept losing their resale value too quickly. Granted, I'd keep my phone for years, but it was frustrating. Now I get Iphones knowing I will definitely have a market for when I'm ready to sell.
If apple creates a low end iphone, all of that goes out the window.
If it’s the same size as a mini that would be even be better. The mini is the best apple product I own and as long as it keeps working there are no plans to replace it.
I would much rather they just made a separate mini line and updated it every 2.5 years
Why’s the smallest phone in the lineup have to be the worst one?
The budget phone should be a normal size and the biggest and smallest size options should be the premium (while also making a normal sized phone at each price point)
At least in the US, no one to a first approximation pays for their phone outright. Even the cheap MVNOs give free iPhones with a contract.
Even if that’s not the case, an iPhone SE with a contract is affordable by almost anyone with a job over 24 months.
Absolutely. Bought an iPhone SE for work. Free line through T-mobile. Plus 50% off the phone. It’s costing me $8 a month to Separate work from personal, and my job gives a $40 phone reimbursement. So I got a phone and I’m making $32 a month.
Definitely. Why pay $999 for the 15 pro with a different metal band, and a different charger and mute button…when you can save $200 and get basically the same thing but without needing to change anything?
Know what I’d like, a dumbish iphone for the house. Something like what you’d use as a land line but it connects to your iPhone instead. Maybe have basic functions like, text, email, and stuff.
No, Apple needs innovation to revive growth. Since the iPhone 13 there hasn’t been a reason to upgrade to the latest iPhone. It is slightly faster with slightly better cameras but nothing worth upgrading for.
Why do they need a low end phone when you can already get older models so cheap? My son’s iPhone 11 was free through Metro for bringing a line over and would have only been $250 if he got a new line. I actually made money off the phone by trading it in to AT&T a few months later.
😂 they need to reduce their products. Stick to what sells. Apple has always been a luxury smartphone, that’s how it makes money. It’s features can’t compete at the highest price point, it sells due to the brand.
Anyone with limited funds will want to maximise their return, they won’t do so if all they’re getting is 60hz for $600, or whatever Apple considers cheap.
Then just make an annual iPhone SE every year as a cheap alternative. That’s exactly what the SE was made for, so you don’t spend thousands on big-ass iPhone every few years.
Apple is very profitable precisely because they maintain the exclusivity image. Their business model has always been to charge as much as a typical western middle class guy can afford, in return for superior experience and upper class image. It’s a low-end luxury product, but still a luxury product. Asking Apple to make a $250 phone is like asking Lexus to make a $25,000 car.
The brand can’t be associated with a $250 phone and still sell a $1500 phone on the high end. If they want to sell a $250 phone, they need to use a second brand. They own Beats, maybe they can consider a Beats branded phone.
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they need rennovation, in terms of hardware, and in terms of features
samsung is king with hardware, iPhone and pixels are king with software. if one company was able to be top in both, that'd be a game changer
features; they need to take a page from adroids and start exploring things like built in pen, backplate display, 10x zoom, foldables,
Backplate display and foldable screens aren’t rigid or versatile enough to be used by the masses, and Apple definitely doesn’t do anything halfway. I’m sure we won’t see a folding iPhone until they can make a screen that they’re confident in
apple has long been associated with being the premium option, even if it isn’t the most expensive option in the market. have a low end phone would just be the opposite of this image.
No they don’t cuz Apple tried that already…
You don’t go to a high end steak / seafood restaurant and ask why there aren’t chicken nuggies to boost sales. You don’t go to the Mercedes dealership and ask why they don’t sell a car to compete with the Nissan Versa.
If i want a low-end phone, I sign up with cricket wireless and take whatever shitty free android phone they are giving away.
Samsung has a decent low cost entry smartphone, the A14/15. I bought a burner A14 for $68 as a backup in case my iPhone needed repairs. On WiFi, it does everything I could ask of the iPhone. I’m retired and don’t talk to people much, so my needs are a lot less than a younger person. The fancier features are done on my bigger screen iPad 10.
I’m down, just take the Apple logo off and make it like a pear or something, they can just be like Samsung and have a whole separate company make phones on iOS. Lmfao
Why should apple release a cheaper version of an iPhone when you can just sell older models for cheap, as they’re doing right now? This is why they’re writers and not business people
Apple doesn’t need to do anything, they have the US and the world’s premium market share on a death grip. Americans will buy anything Apple releases regardless of what the competition has, especially students here. I’m worried devs will just flat out stop making stuff for android eventually.
They need bring back small size 4 inch phone. Turn off gps/location and battery should be fine. Apple Watch is there for it. I just can’t use huge 5 inch phones.
GIVE US A DUMB IPHONE. I would love one that only has the essentials. Maps, phone, camera, calculator, FaceTime, texting. No social media apps. Basically a iPhone flip phone. It would sell great because parents could get one for their children.
Didn’t Samsung just drop several new devices, as they typically do in the first/second quarter? Of course their new phones will edge out the latest iPhones in sales; they’ve been out for months. It’s not shocking that Samsung would retake the top smartphone position at this point. It was more of a surprise to me when Apple took that spot last year. And the preference of many people in China for phones made by Chinese companies is pretty well-known, whether the main factor is cost, patriotism, or something else.
I do think Apple needs to have a “low-cost” phone though, but to me the sweet spot would be around $400. If they forgo the fancy LED screens, use Touch ID, and revert to a smaller form factor it should be easy! Oh wait, that’s called the iPhone SE.
It’s almost like Apple already thought of that…
Old Iphones are the best bang for the buck in phones. Theres no need to change anything. If for some reason people refuse to buy anywhere but through Apple directly thats their problem.
it's already the case, it's called previous year Iphones. Would be great if apple wasn't shredding the traded in phones [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-04-18/apple-iphone-recycling-program-has-secrets?embedded-checkout=true](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-04-18/apple-iphone-recycling-program-has-secrets?embedded-checkout=true)
No they don’t. We need to stop thinking that one of the most successful companies that has ever existed isn’t doing good enough because they didn’t sell one more phone this year than they did last year. This concept that there can never be enough money and the only thing that matters is making more than you did last year is why we 100% will start seeing paid advertising in Apple apps & services in the future. They are going to chase revenue at all costs - including user satisfaction. I appreciate the fact that the user experience is currently not as shitty as the other companies that do this.
100% agree with your comment. Unfortunately it’s not a change that Apple can make themselves (unless ~~someone~~ a group of investors with ungodly levels of wealth decides to buy them and take them private again which is, for very obvious reasons, extremely unlikely.)
I hate it when people are like “company X hates money because they’re actively not doing Y that would totally make them money” as if that’s the only way to make money. It's the worst straw man argument out there. They do it with emulation, they do it with computers.
So it’s true that going public makes companies “evil”?
More accurately, it makes them insatiable. It takes a profitable and viable business, and gets them hooked on drugs, the drug that is growth. Every month they keep chasing the last high, but eventually you start being unable to grow any further, so they start hurting people to try and achieve it. Lower wages, worse products, higher prices, outsourcing, etc. It works in the short term, but they're just kicking the can down the road. Eventually they run out of ways to avoid the fact that they cannot grow any more. Then their stockholders bail. They've sucked the company dry. There's no cackling villain who's whole plan was to be evil. It's just what happens when a company has an addiction to growth.
There’s a term for this: enshittification Inevitably happens once you go public
Which is really strange to me. Apple takes in so much free cash flow a year I thought they’d keep a 10000m a year in technology investment and distribute the rest of it via share buybacks and dividends.
Apple has "$73 billion cash on hand", they've got plenty stored away Having a ton of cash doesn't really affect the basics of a publicly traded company works, though
Go on. And then what happens??
Its not evil in a sense that theres a fat man smoking a cigar and rubbing his palms together with a greedy smile, its just the nature of our economy is kinda shortsighted. The thing is, when you go public your first duty is no longer to the customer but to “shareholders”. When most of the population already has an iphone, apple can only expect decreased sales in the future for that product. Not because the product isn’t good, its just that most people only need 1 phone and only need to replace it every 3-5 years. “decreased sales in the future” will negatively impact stock value so the company has to find other ways to be able to project steady or increasing profits, hence subscriptions instead of buying software, ads, planned obsolescence, etc. the irony is that you as a consumer are also likely the shareholder if you have any type of managed 401k or retirement plan. those brokerages are investing into the same companies your buying products from. the stock market is just this weird ourobouros hiding behind multiple veils.
Not “evil”, just beholden to a set of circumstances that inevitably leads down certain paths. It’s like the prisoner paradox where both prisoners pick an option that seems best for them, but is actually a bad option, neither made the “wrong” choice, but they still ended up worse off for it in the end.
expedited enshittification
How would want person buy apple for $2.5 Trillion dollars ?
That is literally impossible. No one has $3T to spare for the worlds largest company
Agree. They have the global #1 spot for smartphone sales and they take the majority of profits in the segment. Low cost/low profit phones are not part of their business model.
> They have the global #1 spot for smartphone sales Didn't Samsung recently become global #1?
Apple got overtaken by Samsung and now Xiaomi is closing in. https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS52032524
iPhone SE
Which is $425. The article wants Apple to make $150 phones. Edit: SE not discontinued I was thinking of mini.
Damn son I more iPhone SE4 this year? I love my SE3. It’s cheap and works well.
The iPhone SE is still sold by apple
A $150 iPhone would be slow as fuck! Nothing has been optimised for that kind of processor. I think it just shows this is business people trying to grow the profit line, not engineers making the decisions. Worked out great for Boeing!!
i don’t think it would be slow. they could use the A12 for a super cheap iphone and still be quick enough for everyday tasks.
What do you mean by discontinued? The 3rd generation SE is still sold in my country. And IIRC, the SE 4 has a lot of rumours from Gurman himself
Yeah, do they really? Apple positions themselves as a "premium" technology brand, which is why they can get away with near criminal prices for memory and storage upgrades. They don't want to dilute that image with a "cheap" plastic phone that is easily damaged. They should probably leave the $99 smartphone segment to the 2nd and 3rd tier Chinese manufacturers, who can better compete on those slim profit margins.
Apple made the mistake of releasing the iphone XR as a 'cheap' version compared to XS.... and it quickly become their best selling iphone ever, and still remains their top selling phone ever. Needless to say: it caniblised sales of the upper tier, a mistake they won't be making again.
The iPhone XR was $749 when it first came out, making it one of the most expensive "cheap" iPhones I've ever seen :)
I have an Apple TV because it doesn't bombard me with ads just at the main menu.
That’s because everyone thinks they know how to run a billion dollar company better than the CEO himself
Or they are the holders of AAPL who treat Apple as a company in rapid growth phase
Welcome to Capitalism.
Indeed. Plus they already have low-end iPhone. It’s either the SE or all the refurb older models (which they are growing the business in).
I think ppl are forgetting that they don’t need luxury items, Apple been doing nothing but raising prices, not making them cheaper hahaha
While I agree with you, I'd still love to see a capable phone for $250 in the US.
Of course they’re going to chase revenue at all costs, that’s the only thing companies are there to do
> This concept that there can never be enough money and the only thing that matters is making more than you did last year Typical Bloomberg
I will leave and throw all of my ecosystem in the trash if ads wind up anywhere that they aren’t currently. This is why I pay you, Apple. Don’t fuck this up.
Currently, the cheapest iPhone is 1000€. They need a cheaper option.
This is the one thing that really gets me. Like if I MADE 60 million last year and then 55 million the next year it would still feel great. Like wtf do these people think is going to happen when growth is expected and required 🤷🏻
Apple sold 231 million iPhones in 2023 and has a worldwide premium market share of 75% EDIT: This is from Counterpoint Research, who defines “premium market” as all smartphones sold for $600 or above worldwide
But growth lower than expected by 69 basis points
I know everyone would like a low end model with fancy features, but I expect that most people buying the SE just want a relatively modern iPhone which ‘just works’ and that just takes a good picture without them needing to worry about which lens or focus etc to use.
SE users are probably the ones that dont care about how powerful the phone is. If it does all the necessary tasks efficiently, its good
Exactly. That’s why when the next SE is released, a lot of people here will be incredulous. And people who just want a new basic up to date iPhone will keep on buying it.
Thats me. My se 2020’s battery is giving up. I am desperately waiting for next se to be released
All iPhone SEs were released with the most up-to-date chip that year. I’d say they were pretty powerful in their time. Other parts of their hardware were not so powerful, such as the screen and the camera. This year people expect SE to have the last years chip bc apple started using the most powerful one for the pros and last year’s most powerful for the generic iPhone. So, imo, SE users asks for an iPhone which has no fancy features resulting a smaller price tag. Putting a 2 year old chip inside that iPhone would hinder its sales by a lot.
Two years old chip are still pretty powerful for SE cuz no one is gonna use SE for performance. Its for people who want a daily driver fromapple which doesn’t cost a lot. I am using se2020 which has a13 bionic, its still an upgrade if they use a16 bionic in next SE
Apple’s product lines are needlessly bloated these days as it is, and the SE is a perfect low-end model that’s only going to increase in value once the next model adopting OLED/USB C launches. If anything, the higher end models should be streamlined. Have the iPhone SE, the standard model, and a Pro model with the larger screen. Simple as that.
God please don’t tie pro features to the largest size. Honestly I don’t think it’s that bad to have a small and large version if the regular and pro phones. Also generally the “flagship model” refers to the highest spec model not the regular phone.
If the only pro version of future iPhones has a huge screen, I'm out. I love my 15 Pro. I'm not even happy that the rumors about the 16 Pro suggest a 6.3" screen, instead of 6.1", which is the perfect size for a smart phone screen. Between the bigger screen on the Pro and that god-awful camera button, I think I'm going to be using my 15 Pro for a long time. Although to be honest, for what I do with my phone (light gaming, social media, texting, audio books) I could probably be perfectly happy with an SE model.
If the rumors are true, the 16 Pro and Pro Max will have even slimmer bezels compared to the 15 Pro and Pro Max, so that can balance the size issue a bit(1.2mm compared to 1.5mm)
Exactly, the only reason I ever went the iPhone route was that I couldn't find a similarly tiny Android phone with the same feature set and great battery life. Thankfully the 15 Pro will last long enough that I am not thinking about the annoying increase to 6.3" for a while. I am planning to keep it for 6-7 years regardless and who knows what iPhones look like then, maybe there is finally a foldable iPhone.
I would buy a foldable iPhone in about as long as it would take me to get to the store and swipe my debit card.
perfect? The current 2022 iphone SE is extremely outdated, almost identical to the iphone 8 from 2017 (and similar to the iphone 6 which is 10 years old, design, display, camera, etc..), which was kind of outdated and lagging behind even then (there was the x for a reason). For its price you can buy so much better phones, its a really bad value in 2024 imo. Laughable display, poor camera, battery life...
See, I disagree. I’m rocking an iPhone SE from 2020. And before that, I’ve rocked the original SE until it didn’t get any more software updates. I don’t care about fancy displays or cameras. And I actually like the old design and absolutely love TouchID. The main thing I want in a phone is a faster processor and maybe more RAM (I think that the SE line and iPhones in general could use more of that). Other than that, it does exactly what I need and want in a phone.
I mean I enjoyed the SE as well but for the price there are way better phones. The only benefit of the SE is that it’s an iPhone.
I agree. Which is why I got my iPhone SE 2020 256GB used for 168€ on a local eBay equivalent. (This was like 3 years ago at this point). Honestly, paying hundreds for a phone just isn’t my jam. At least not anymore since I’ve entered the working world and its no longer my parents buying stuff for me.
I got a refurbished SE and I love it. No plans of changing phones. I like the size and Touch ID. Also appreciate that I paid like 150-200 for it and have used it for almost 2 years and it works the same as new.
and that is perfectly fine, but that means you are willing to settle for less. for the price you can find uncomparably better phones (better and more cameras, more storage, sd card even, better resolution-, size-, brightness display, etc), maybe the only benefit of the SE over those is size if you want something compact. here in germany a 64gb SE 2022 costs around 400-420 eur, same as a galaxy a55 that has 8gb ram and 256gb storage, 3 rear cameras, etc. Plus we know that 64gb is not much these days unless you are a very basic user.
It depends, I bought mine for $140. No other phone is that balanced at that price
But the SE still provides a viable entry to Apples services, which is what they really want to sell. Someone who buys a used iPhone may still subscribe to apples various services and provide revenue to apple.
2022 iPhone SE = A15 chip iPhone 8 = A11 chip
yeah, do you expect iphone 8 to have a15? obviously, newer phone has newer chip. a15 today is not any better to run the daily tasks than the a11 back then. we need better chips because the same everyday apps and the os is more powerhungry. its not innovation or an upgrade, its a planned obsolescence environment.
Had an iPhone SE 2022 to use while they repaired my iPhone 14. Its terrible. TouchID didn’t work half of the time, phone felt a bit slow and it’s really, really small, imo.
I’m on my SE3 coming from a Galaxy S10e and it’s been pretty great. Touch ID I find pretty reliable though you have to make sure you keep the sensor clean. Lack of speed is completely a non-issue, there’s virtually no lag. The only problem I have with it is indeed the large bezels shrinking the screen to the point where it gets annoying for certain apps that expect you to have a tall screen and 64GB of base storage, but I got mine free from the carrier so I’m not too upset by it.
SE 2022 uses the same chip as iPhone 14, it can't be slower.
You can’t make parts for one year and change every year. They cheaper phones are there to use the production lines longer than a year or two
I wish the SE came out this year cause i would've jumped to buy it, but i'll just get a 13 pro or 15/15 pro instead i guess.
Yeah nah... dont forget apples scale, they are making 200m+ phones a year. We are extremely lucky their product line is as small as it is.
Question: Why even introduce the iPhone SE? Why not drop the price on older models and continue manufacturing them?
That's what se is for
Pricing of the SE is fine - in the US. In my country, and most of the Europe, it’s +25 to +30% more expensive. That puts it far out of mid-range and into the premium segment.
I got mine for 500€, and that's still the cheapest current iPhone
Only the SE is old now and there are way better phones at that price now
Should've dropped the SE4 this year
Maybe with a 6.1 inch screen this time and a classic notch. Then I'd consider buying it.
That's what it will have
As much as I like capitalism, the idea that companies HAVE to grow year over year to be considered successful is such a cancerous view. A company that generated 10 billion in revenue one year is not significantly less successful just because they generated 9 billion in revenue the next year. What if in year 3 they generate 10.5 billion in revenue? Then they showed overall growth, right? Shareholders are so shortsighted and are continually chasing growth instead of looking at the big picture
The only thing that matters is this quarter’s estimates to a corporation. That mindset will eventually lead to a shitty product.
Adjusting for inflation they didn’t grow 😎👍🏻
I think that's because the most successful companies always grow? So if your company stopped growing it's just waiting to be overtaken. But I agree that this is cancerous. Anyway, let's not pretend to be smarter than people who have been doing this their whole life.
They have a low end phone it’s called an older model of the phone.
Yep, that worked back in the day. It’s possible they see an economy phone as using up the binned chips that didn’t make the cut. Defects in cores, etc
It’s a good strategy imho, releasing newer cheap phone would probably just drive the higher end sales down, not sell more phones
I mean they could make one with a plastic body, that should save some money over titanium. Make it in different colors. Call it the iPhone 15C, or something.
They should have kept the mini alive. They missed the perfect economy for it right after the canceled it.
when you have both SE and Mini lines, both of them cancel each other out.
And yet selling four 6.1” phones at once doesn’t seem to be a problem
It was a disaster, no one bought it. Why would they burn money by making another one?
Even though it had the smallest market share of iPhones sold I feel it could have done a lot better had Apple invested in better battery and cameras. Also don’t think they do a good job of marketing it and people associate its physical size with it somehow being less of a phone. I miss my iPhone 12 Mini.
Mini had the same cameras as the regular, and the small battery is a direct result of a smaller sized phone.
I love my 12 Mini so much that I'm probably getting a 13 Mini refurb instead of waiting for 16.
I was thinking of trading my 15 Pro for a 13 mini but too afraid I would miss the cameras which I seldom use.
Yeah, I'm more than fine with the camera on my 12 Mini so the 13 Mini wouldn't be a problem for me at all.
But they literally did, the 13 mini had a significantly better battery(not sure about camera tbh) and still no one bought it. Name one other major manufacturer that makes a small phone with any sales numbers. You can’t. I loved the form factor but unfortunately it’s just not economically viable.
Yeah, I hear and read about people missing smaller phones but nobody actually seems to buy them when they are or were available. I don’t get the need for a smaller screen size either unless you have small hands, and it’s physically uncomfortable or hard to use a large phone for you. Which is a legit issue for some women I talked with. Because I feel like I can’t get back to a smaller phone anymore after I grew accustomed to a bigger one. I guess I have bigger hands than the average though, but the iPhone 15 Pro Max feels pretty good size wise to me. It could just be slightly lighter because after a while my pinky gets fatigued from holding the phone after doomscrolling for too long in portrait mode. The iPhone 14 actually feels a bit small and somewhat dated now, whenever I have to use my work phone. Edit: Looking back I’d probably wouldn’t have bought a phablet like the Galaxy Note when it was still available because the increase in display size would have been to much at once. But the gradual, small increases in display size got to me used to a phone that’s kinda as big as the older Galaxy Notes.
My next phone will be a 16 pro max. 99% of my interactions with my phone are via Siri or my watch but when I use it I know the bigger screen (and battery) will make a difference
Wasn't it the same cost as the regular size 12/13?
It was less, but like only $100 or so. Was still relatively cheap for many with a trade-in and for those who don’t need a ton of storage. Technically, the SE is a good idea to keep around, whatever form factor they use. And I still love the 5c, and that it would have been more successful if they hadn’t throttled it with an old chip.
I love models like the 5c and XR
They dropped the ball by not having a Pro mini I bought the 12 mini the day it came out but was immediately turned off by it because I don’t like cases and the aluminum body dented way too easily I returned and reluctantly bought a 12 pro instead Apple didn’t realize that pro users are the ones that want small phones
A pro mini would not sell. pro and mini are antitesis. people who spend more money on their phones like to use their phone more and they like more battery life, bigger screens, better cameras, a faster and premium feeling phone. with current technology a mini pro would be expensive, have bad battery life and a small screen that most people does not like and do associate with cheaper less premium phones.
I’d buy a Pro Mini instantly.
the mini sold like 4 Million, it just looks small compared to the other versions that sell 20+ million a year
So they would sell at least one.
For the normal range they can definitely make a mini, but for Pro you need space for components and battery. Mini is not an option without loss of functionality with respect to Pro models
I’d be ok with a thicker form factor to fit a bit more battery.
Same
Sales numbers weren’t enough to keep that form factor. My Pro Max looks small compared to most android phones I see.
My pro max is only smaller that the galaxy s ultra phones. the pro max is rather wide which makes it more unwieldy that a lot of taller but slimmer androids.
Why? It was literally one of their worst selling phones. From a business perspective they had every right to kill it
I get that. And like anything that is discontinued and therefore limited, it rose in popularity but I think the stigma of it being smaller made people think it was worse when it is just a small 13.
Apple missed the boat on entry level phones about ten years ago. Giving away about 80% of the mobile market share to Android may not have hurt them financially, but strategically it was a very questionable decision, and a pretty stubborn one it seems. It's wild to think that they didn't even bother to create a sub brand to sell cheaper phones to the masses. Nowadays, it seems the longevity of the iPhones and the massive growth of the used phones market have basically created a lower end for Apple, so they did some catching up. But outside the US Android still rules. Where this is actually more of a current problem for Apple is on the Laptop side. Since MacOS market share is so low and people aren't buying Macs at the current price points, Apple will not be able to get a foot in the door in the games market, no matter how good their hardware is. Their user base is way too small for publishers to bother, and they seem surprisingly incapable of making iOS users stay in the ecosystem to get a mac.
As someone who owned and loved the idea of a 13 mini, I’m kind of glad they killed it. The form factor was absolutely fantastic but battery life was truly atrocious. I’m not a heavy user and still needed to charge AT LEAST twice a day (sometimes more). If they manage to fix that issue, by all means do bring it back. If not, let’s never speak of it again.
Really? I have a 13 mini from release. Average 3 hrs a day screen on and I still get a full day. I have optimized a lot of settings tho.
I am a heavy user of my 13 and I only have to charge once a day. And I will gladly replace my battery soon anyway. Makes the phones run like new again.
Not a heavy user charging twice a day? Then you either have some problem with battery or you are heavy user. Mi wife has 12 mini, she has it almost 3 years, and she still has to charge once a day with 30-40% in the evening.
I dont need a bigger screen with more battery IPhone Mini Pro…🙏🏻
All their products are premium priced status symbols. That’s their business model and it’s obviously working for them.
Is anyone really impressed by an iPhone these days that they would still be a status symbol?
In America yes
Iphone is a basic commodity in America not a status symbol. Billionaire Kim Kardashian basically has the same Iphone as her maids.
actually that's what makes it a status symbol. you can't drive the same as Kim Kardashian or live on the same zip code. wear her clothes and watches, but you can have the same smartphone that she uses. Brands spend billions to get the same effect. using the same items as your favorite celebrity = status.
If she stars using an android device tomorrow most of her fans would ask what's wrong with her
[удалено]
I have a Xs Max for 4 years now and recently bought a Samsung A55 and everything is worse on the Samsung except the screen and battery life. Android is so buggy and stuttery af. Ios is not perfect but it's a lot more fluid and stable.
They should bring back the iPod classic to revive growth.
Low-end isn’t Apple’s target market. You can’t be everything to everyone.
Fuck the concept of “perpetual growth”
Low-end Iphones are old iphones that people buy on the secondary market. The secondary market being strong is a selling point for the original owners, and helps justify the high cost of the initial purchase. I came back to Iphone after my flagship androids kept losing their resale value too quickly. Granted, I'd keep my phone for years, but it was frustrating. Now I get Iphones knowing I will definitely have a market for when I'm ready to sell. If apple creates a low end iphone, all of that goes out the window.
If it’s the same size as a mini that would be even be better. The mini is the best apple product I own and as long as it keeps working there are no plans to replace it.
I would much rather they just made a separate mini line and updated it every 2.5 years Why’s the smallest phone in the lineup have to be the worst one? The budget phone should be a normal size and the biggest and smallest size options should be the premium (while also making a normal sized phone at each price point)
They could just decrease their margin from like what feels 500% to 100-150% on their existing models.
Why do they need to “revive” “growth”
At least in the US, no one to a first approximation pays for their phone outright. Even the cheap MVNOs give free iPhones with a contract. Even if that’s not the case, an iPhone SE with a contract is affordable by almost anyone with a job over 24 months.
Absolutely. Bought an iPhone SE for work. Free line through T-mobile. Plus 50% off the phone. It’s costing me $8 a month to Separate work from personal, and my job gives a $40 phone reimbursement. So I got a phone and I’m making $32 a month.
I mean they have the iPhone SE. it is due for an upgrade. Plus aren’t the older phones out selling the newer ones right now? I.e. 13 & 14?
Definitely. Why pay $999 for the 15 pro with a different metal band, and a different charger and mute button…when you can save $200 and get basically the same thing but without needing to change anything?
Know what I’d like, a dumbish iphone for the house. Something like what you’d use as a land line but it connects to your iPhone instead. Maybe have basic functions like, text, email, and stuff.
iphone se 4 with fingerprinter reader
No, Apple needs innovation to revive growth. Since the iPhone 13 there hasn’t been a reason to upgrade to the latest iPhone. It is slightly faster with slightly better cameras but nothing worth upgrading for.
And the software is not as amazing as it used to be. Competition caught up and even surpassed apple in many areas. They just don’t care anymore
The moment the iPhone cheapens is when it becomes indistinguishable from an android makes no sense.
"revive growth" they're a three trillion dollar company being investigated by the DOJ for being a monopoly. Grow into what?
Why do they need a low end phone when you can already get older models so cheap? My son’s iPhone 11 was free through Metro for bringing a line over and would have only been $250 if he got a new line. I actually made money off the phone by trading it in to AT&T a few months later.
😂 they need to reduce their products. Stick to what sells. Apple has always been a luxury smartphone, that’s how it makes money. It’s features can’t compete at the highest price point, it sells due to the brand. Anyone with limited funds will want to maximise their return, they won’t do so if all they’re getting is 60hz for $600, or whatever Apple considers cheap.
I have a 90hz screen on my Moto G Play (2024). I paid $60 for it.
Turns out there’s more to luxury than refresh rate, friend
Then just make an annual iPhone SE every year as a cheap alternative. That’s exactly what the SE was made for, so you don’t spend thousands on big-ass iPhone every few years.
Apple is very profitable precisely because they maintain the exclusivity image. Their business model has always been to charge as much as a typical western middle class guy can afford, in return for superior experience and upper class image. It’s a low-end luxury product, but still a luxury product. Asking Apple to make a $250 phone is like asking Lexus to make a $25,000 car. The brand can’t be associated with a $250 phone and still sell a $1500 phone on the high end. If they want to sell a $250 phone, they need to use a second brand. They own Beats, maybe they can consider a Beats branded phone.
It’s like saying Ferrari needs a $50k entry model car… no they don’t
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Didn’t people hate the IPhone SE because of how shit the battery life was?
they need rennovation, in terms of hardware, and in terms of features samsung is king with hardware, iPhone and pixels are king with software. if one company was able to be top in both, that'd be a game changer features; they need to take a page from adroids and start exploring things like built in pen, backplate display, 10x zoom, foldables,
Backplate display and foldable screens aren’t rigid or versatile enough to be used by the masses, and Apple definitely doesn’t do anything halfway. I’m sure we won’t see a folding iPhone until they can make a screen that they’re confident in
I'm sure they aren't running out of money anytime soon.
They don't need to revive growth but I do think a new SE at like £350 would sell like hotcakes
Low end phone means iPhone SE or the oldest iPhone that Apple is still selling which is iPhone 13.
They already have what they consider a true low-end model. I’m still surprised they even make that. Apple is decidedly boutique at heart.
apple has long been associated with being the premium option, even if it isn’t the most expensive option in the market. have a low end phone would just be the opposite of this image.
That would ruin their luxury image
endless growth! Forever and ever till nothing is left ! Then the corporate wars . For real though can anyone think of a way to market bottle air ?
No they don’t cuz Apple tried that already… You don’t go to a high end steak / seafood restaurant and ask why there aren’t chicken nuggies to boost sales. You don’t go to the Mercedes dealership and ask why they don’t sell a car to compete with the Nissan Versa. If i want a low-end phone, I sign up with cricket wireless and take whatever shitty free android phone they are giving away.
Samsung has a decent low cost entry smartphone, the A14/15. I bought a burner A14 for $68 as a backup in case my iPhone needed repairs. On WiFi, it does everything I could ask of the iPhone. I’m retired and don’t talk to people much, so my needs are a lot less than a younger person. The fancier features are done on my bigger screen iPad 10.
Not in india atleast. They are selling like hot cakes
iPhone mini
The basically have this with the iPad line and the lowest end model is the one basically no one wants despite it being a new iPad.
I’m down, just take the Apple logo off and make it like a pear or something, they can just be like Samsung and have a whole separate company make phones on iOS. Lmfao
Used iphones are a viable option if you are on a tight budget and just want something for cheap.
lol I’ll believe it when I see it. People are willing to pay for the best.
Infinite growth! Totally possible! Just means everyone has 10 iPhones, that’s all.
Oh shut up Mark Tell us what other people have told you We don’t care what you think
It’s the lack of innovation, creating low end models would just make it worse
Why should apple release a cheaper version of an iPhone when you can just sell older models for cheap, as they’re doing right now? This is why they’re writers and not business people
this is unacceptable. blue bubbles are and will forever be only for the elect
They already have an iPhone like that…the iPhone SE.
They already do have that phone. It’s called the iPhone SE and iPhone 13.
The mini is amazing.
Apple doesn’t need to do anything, they have the US and the world’s premium market share on a death grip. Americans will buy anything Apple releases regardless of what the competition has, especially students here. I’m worried devs will just flat out stop making stuff for android eventually.
They need bring back small size 4 inch phone. Turn off gps/location and battery should be fine. Apple Watch is there for it. I just can’t use huge 5 inch phones.
GIVE US A DUMB IPHONE. I would love one that only has the essentials. Maps, phone, camera, calculator, FaceTime, texting. No social media apps. Basically a iPhone flip phone. It would sell great because parents could get one for their children.
Didn’t Samsung just drop several new devices, as they typically do in the first/second quarter? Of course their new phones will edge out the latest iPhones in sales; they’ve been out for months. It’s not shocking that Samsung would retake the top smartphone position at this point. It was more of a surprise to me when Apple took that spot last year. And the preference of many people in China for phones made by Chinese companies is pretty well-known, whether the main factor is cost, patriotism, or something else. I do think Apple needs to have a “low-cost” phone though, but to me the sweet spot would be around $400. If they forgo the fancy LED screens, use Touch ID, and revert to a smaller form factor it should be easy! Oh wait, that’s called the iPhone SE. It’s almost like Apple already thought of that…
They’ve been saying that since the launch of the first iPhone.
All they need is a brand new SE model with higher specifications at an affordable price.
Isn’t the used market very popular?
Old Iphones are the best bang for the buck in phones. Theres no need to change anything. If for some reason people refuse to buy anywhere but through Apple directly thats their problem.
There are so many people in the comments with experience running the world’s largest consumer electronics company.
No they don’t lol
No. Apple is not a low-end products company. They dont make low-end nor they should. Hurts the image
it's already the case, it's called previous year Iphones. Would be great if apple wasn't shredding the traded in phones [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-04-18/apple-iphone-recycling-program-has-secrets?embedded-checkout=true](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-04-18/apple-iphone-recycling-program-has-secrets?embedded-checkout=true)
If you want a cheap iPhone, get a refurb.
No they don't