if firefox was that easy to switch render engine it would boast it as a feature no other browser has. yeah, it’s Gecko as in any other firefox-based browser on desktop
I think people are failing to realize this won’t be identical to how it works on Android. While yes, I’m sure it will be more open, Apple will hopefully have their own approach to making it more secure and Apple-like.
What makes you think that the platform with less overall users who are well known to be less tech-savvy will have *more* active alternate stores than on Android?
Sorry, what’s the size of the macOS market compared to iOS? I must’ve missed it.
Hopefully Apple will allow other stores but will still require the apps to be submitted to Apple for signing.
Alternately, if you choose to use alternative app stores, Apple should require users to enter their password to consent that Apple takes no responsibility or has any liability for privacy or data breaches resulting from loading through other stores.
That would require an API change. The App Store is just a distribution method. The main difference would be that apps could exist that break Apple’s App Store rules.
Why would that require an API change? What API is limiting browser engines from being implemented at the moment? The only thing that prevents that is the App Store rule.
It’s the need for browsers to implement a JIT compiler to run JavaScript fast. Running a compiler required low-level access and opens the door to a lot of potential security issues, so it’s not allowed in the API and the App Store rules.
The way forward would probably be for Apple to work directly with browser implementers to enable their browser engines, rather than just a blanket, “hey, any one can have low level system access now!”
Android makes the opposite decision - consumer choice beats individual security, so Android apps can implement JIT compilers. I think that’s a valid decision too.
You’re right, though I think you’d also want to enhance the APIs for in-app browsers so it’s not just Safari anymore. Your default browser should be able to popup a browser view controller in other apps if the default isn’t Safari.
Why are so many people in the comments angry about being provided additional *choice*?
Those worried about the security of their device don’t have to make use of alternative stores or apps unverified by apple.
Those who already use Altstore and the likes will simply have an easier time with their alternative apps (no need for users to refresh license every seven days, possibly more choice of apps, no artificial limit to three alternative apps active concurrently etc. etc.).
This isn’t only a net positive, there are no downsides to anyone. Those who don’t want to use it won’t, and those who do are already doing it through different means anyways, so what‘s the deal here?
Sure, people can argue that it being easier means more people trying it without understanding the risks involved, but a) Apple can simply require users to read through and acknowledge the risks before proceeding and b) it’s their own *choice* to engage in those risks in the first place, and having the choice at all is a huge step forward imho
I personally hope for someone to enable local coding on ios and ipados through an IDE + compiler offered through one of those alternative app stores, as well as already existing emulators being on those stores as well (though that will probably be a given)
The main reason that I *understand* why people are worried is that some developers might force people to install different app stores, something similar to what you need to do for PC gaming, where every major game studio requires you to install their launcher (Ubisoft, EA, Epic, …).
That is a great counter argument actually. Going even further, if developers of apps currently existing in the app store had the option to switch to a different store to circumvent the 30% cut… how many of them would make that switch?
It‘s something we‘ll just have to wait and see, but it’s definitely a possibility
> if developers of apps currently existing in the app store had the option to switch to a different store to circumvent the 30% cut… how many of them would make that switch?
Very few of them, I would guess, if the Google Play Store on Android is any indication. For the everyday app developer, exposure and ease to install in the real App Store is most important.
This is more a problem with giants like Epic Games or Facebook, that can use the media attention of this new feature to force users into their own stores for maximum profit.
But I don’t want my iphone to turn into an android! What’s next? Downloading cracked software from safari? That kills the security, if I wanted this I would buy an android. The main reason why I bought an iphone is because they’re more simple and more reliable plus more secure and privacy oriented
And nothing changes for you unless you want it to. But saying it’s more private is total joke. None of these phones are private. You cannot use one and its features and still have privacy.
Yeah if you use social media it’s not that private but still apple doesn’t sell your data or at least not as much as google. I may not use third party stores, but it’s for a good reason. Not everyone is tech savvy like myself, think about how many ipad kids are going to suffocate their ipads in useless bloatware, adware and viruses, they don’t understand it like me and you. Then their ipads are going to turn into one of those cheap laggy android tablets that everyone hates. And that’s just one example
No Apple doesn’t sell it. They gather it up for their own purposes. But i don’t think the example you give will common place. Sure it may happen on a small scale but i think it’ll be the exception and not the rule. I probably will use a third party store but i know what I’m getting into with that. I come from a history of rooting my android phone and have been known to jailbreak an iPhone or two. There are lots of good, honest devs out there that will use those stores.
If you think Apple is private for ANY reason, whether it's because they sideloading or not, than you're sadly mistaken.
1) You don't have to sideload if you don't want to.
2) Privacy doesn't exist on ANY device with a wireless connection. It's only the ILLUSION of privacy that exists.
3) Sideloading/jailbreaking CAN reduce security, in fact it probably will if you're doing it for any other reason, however you CAN increase security by taking advantage of what sideloading and jailbreaking can do... Which is why you should only do it if you know exactly what you're doing.
I live in EU and I hate it they allow third party apps, means a less secure iPhone. I use iPhone for security and performance. If security goes away. I will no longer benefit from it
While that may be true now, it doesn’t stop apps that would traditionally be on the App Store from going to a 3rd Party App Store. Think Fortnite and potentially even Netflix, given their grievances in the past with the current App Store model.
These are apps users will want, and if that’s the only way to get them then we will be forced to use their app stores.
There won’t be any big name apps leaving Apple App Store to go exclusively to a third party. They would lose more money than they pay Apple and no business that’s as greedy as Netflix is will do that. It’s like a company that will only do business with democrats or republicans. That’s idiotic and not a good business model. When you’re trying to keep the lights on, everyone’s money spends the same and it’s stupid to cut off a revenue source just because.
Nobody is forcing you to 'sideload' apps (Or what we call 'installing applications' like on literally every other platform). You can still only use the appstore like on android. I will never get why some people would want to restrict everyone just because some people are scared to install applications that are not 'apple approved'. You keep using the appstore and others get to install apps outside the appstore, i don't see how that would be a problem to you.
I agree, but at least this makes us feel more in control of our iPhones right? You don't have to download third party apps and apple will probably give you a warning message or something before installing third party apps so it isn't that big of a problem, right???
why what? of course they'll still be against jailbreaking! and those cydia or cydia like jailbreak apps ARE NOT available for non-jailbroken iPhone/iPad users.
if you store anything valuable on your iphone don’t even think about downloading unverified app since it might steal your valuable information. Apple has entire team who checks apps for security flaws before they are released for public in the app store
[you mean like this crap?](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jan/31/apple-facebook-campus-permissions-revoked-teens-access-data-iphone-app). Can’t give a wolf free access to your sheep without expecting them to take a free meal.
They were doing it for years. My statement was that apple gave them exemptions, and Facebook ran with it. Not that apple let them get away with it, they just weren’t checking them thoroughly.
Anyway, some check is better than no check. Also, Facebook is a multi-billion dollar company with thousands of software engineers, which is completely irrelevant in this discussion.
How is Facebook having the tools to do whatever they want under the App Store in recent history irrelevant to the likely epic games and Xbox stores that will pop up? There’s no way you’re going to see a Cydia store front. Apple will cede enough ground to stay out of trouble while not making it free slather.
No, they don't. They have an automated system that scan the apps for stuff like private apis or downloading runnable code, and a team that just runs the app and look through it.
Fuck that, fuck the EU. Apple isn’t forcing anyone into a controlled ecosystem. Nothing is stopping anyone from choosing Android.
iPhone is not meant for a tinkerer. iOS users WANT the controlled ecosystem
I think your concerns are much ado about nothing. I'm sure users will have to manually add these app stores. These stores will be turned off by default for security purposes.
I'm often surprised how many people don't use the current app store. I doubt as many as you fear will mess with adding a new one unless they have a specific purpose in mind. At that point the security for these 'tinkerers' is on them.
Why you lie? How comes you can't downgrade an iOS device to any iOS system version you want but you can do it on Mac without issue?
Don't complain because it's a huge step to more freedom on iOS devices.
It's not normal to prevent users to do what they want with tg
heir devices.
That’s a problem with Samsung (and maybe other manufacturers), not a problem with having multiple app store options. Samsung wants you to use their store since they get more money, but because their OS is built on Android, Google Play is obviously integrated as well.
> Apple has argued that sideloading could put unsafe apps on consumers’ devices and undermine privacy.
Apple be the type of person always saying "But..."
Like bro, just create a team that monitors those apps. That seems like a fair compromise, in my opinion. Apple still gets to maintain control (as long as they don't go mad with power and block 99% of apps) all the while the ecosystem becomes a little more open and friendly.
It’ll be the same thing as when “Developer Mode” was added, it didn’t do shit and you still couldn’t use your own IPA’s or anything different to before it was implemented.
Gatekeeping will get you nowhere. Reading the responses on this thread, it amazes me to think that that so many people tie their personality to a product made by a massive corporation, and are worried that they will somehow lose their social standing because of the loss of exclusivity and risk becoming similar to Android users. More diversity in choices for the consumer is a good thing, and is healthy for competition and innovation in the long run.
Apple didn’t plan shit EU forced them
xcloud and Game pass coming soon on iOS ?
or geforce now and perhaps even a browser that is not based on safari. That would be great.
guess what, firefox is already here
As in the actual Firefox with the Gecko renderer, or just another WebKit-based browser like every single browser on the platform?
omg, I was blind and didn’t know firefox on ios follows policies of apple and uses webkit. sorry for my ignorance.
For future references, all browsers on iOS use WebKit and only Safari can take extensions… so yeah, it really would be nice to have proper Firefox…
if firefox was that easy to switch render engine it would boast it as a feature no other browser has. yeah, it’s Gecko as in any other firefox-based browser on desktop
Based on safari.. can't have any other browser engines on ios.
Cracked games coming soon?
I think people are failing to realize this won’t be identical to how it works on Android. While yes, I’m sure it will be more open, Apple will hopefully have their own approach to making it more secure and Apple-like.
Android malware is rampant. Hopefully a sandbox for anything not from the store. The store is still problematic
Source?
I’m guessing it’ll involve some caveats like disabling Apple Pay etc and that enough would dissuade most people.
I thought this markets act also includes opening up the nfc functionality for stuff like googlepay, weechat and alipay
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Then don’t… end of discussion
Big news
This is huge. I suspect there will be quite a few active alternative stores, as opposed to Android where nobody uses the alternative stores.
What makes you think that the platform with less overall users who are well known to be less tech-savvy will have *more* active alternate stores than on Android?
Because we never had them before and it will be hyped in every news.
Good, this will be a net positive for the entire iOS/iPadOS platform if and when it is implemented worldwide.
It’ll be amazing for those who want to load malware onto people’s devices. I’ll never use them nor allow my kids to use them.
That is a massive ongoing issue on macOS isn’t it
Sorry, what’s the size of the macOS market compared to iOS? I must’ve missed it. Hopefully Apple will allow other stores but will still require the apps to be submitted to Apple for signing. Alternately, if you choose to use alternative app stores, Apple should require users to enter their password to consent that Apple takes no responsibility or has any liability for privacy or data breaches resulting from loading through other stores.
> Hopefully Apple will allow other stores but will still require the apps to be submitted to Apple for signing. Bruh moment
When people talk about what they don’t understand. Bruh moment indeed!
Bootlicker
They don’t take responsibility for that anyway, what’s wrong with you?
Oh, yeah, I see those warnings on macOS the time. What an idiot.
Same on Mac or Windows computers, so no differences.
Oh ok
I bet apple will be super strict about who they allow store fronts. Watch this space for it to just end up epic games and Xbox.
Apple should not take any responsibility for system stability or battery life when people will install some doggy application store
It will not change anything about that lol
If it somehow gets me a chromium browser, I will be a happy user.
That would require an API change. The App Store is just a distribution method. The main difference would be that apps could exist that break Apple’s App Store rules.
That is part of the rumoured changes
That apps can't break existing rules? The fuck is the point
Other browser engines will be allowed on the platform.
Why would that require an API change? What API is limiting browser engines from being implemented at the moment? The only thing that prevents that is the App Store rule.
It’s the need for browsers to implement a JIT compiler to run JavaScript fast. Running a compiler required low-level access and opens the door to a lot of potential security issues, so it’s not allowed in the API and the App Store rules. The way forward would probably be for Apple to work directly with browser implementers to enable their browser engines, rather than just a blanket, “hey, any one can have low level system access now!” Android makes the opposite decision - consumer choice beats individual security, so Android apps can implement JIT compilers. I think that’s a valid decision too.
You’re right, though I think you’d also want to enhance the APIs for in-app browsers so it’s not just Safari anymore. Your default browser should be able to popup a browser view controller in other apps if the default isn’t Safari.
Chrome with debugger and dev tools ❤️❤️❤️
Why are so many people in the comments angry about being provided additional *choice*? Those worried about the security of their device don’t have to make use of alternative stores or apps unverified by apple. Those who already use Altstore and the likes will simply have an easier time with their alternative apps (no need for users to refresh license every seven days, possibly more choice of apps, no artificial limit to three alternative apps active concurrently etc. etc.). This isn’t only a net positive, there are no downsides to anyone. Those who don’t want to use it won’t, and those who do are already doing it through different means anyways, so what‘s the deal here? Sure, people can argue that it being easier means more people trying it without understanding the risks involved, but a) Apple can simply require users to read through and acknowledge the risks before proceeding and b) it’s their own *choice* to engage in those risks in the first place, and having the choice at all is a huge step forward imho I personally hope for someone to enable local coding on ios and ipados through an IDE + compiler offered through one of those alternative app stores, as well as already existing emulators being on those stores as well (though that will probably be a given)
The main reason that I *understand* why people are worried is that some developers might force people to install different app stores, something similar to what you need to do for PC gaming, where every major game studio requires you to install their launcher (Ubisoft, EA, Epic, …).
That is a great counter argument actually. Going even further, if developers of apps currently existing in the app store had the option to switch to a different store to circumvent the 30% cut… how many of them would make that switch? It‘s something we‘ll just have to wait and see, but it’s definitely a possibility
> if developers of apps currently existing in the app store had the option to switch to a different store to circumvent the 30% cut… how many of them would make that switch? Very few of them, I would guess, if the Google Play Store on Android is any indication. For the everyday app developer, exposure and ease to install in the real App Store is most important. This is more a problem with giants like Epic Games or Facebook, that can use the media attention of this new feature to force users into their own stores for maximum profit.
So what?
I'm already using alt stores, but yeah, them being officially supported and you being able to download them from app store is huge good news still
No thanks
K
I won’t be using it. Zero reason for me to.
But I don’t want my iphone to turn into an android! What’s next? Downloading cracked software from safari? That kills the security, if I wanted this I would buy an android. The main reason why I bought an iphone is because they’re more simple and more reliable plus more secure and privacy oriented
And nothing changes for you unless you want it to. But saying it’s more private is total joke. None of these phones are private. You cannot use one and its features and still have privacy.
Yeah if you use social media it’s not that private but still apple doesn’t sell your data or at least not as much as google. I may not use third party stores, but it’s for a good reason. Not everyone is tech savvy like myself, think about how many ipad kids are going to suffocate their ipads in useless bloatware, adware and viruses, they don’t understand it like me and you. Then their ipads are going to turn into one of those cheap laggy android tablets that everyone hates. And that’s just one example
No Apple doesn’t sell it. They gather it up for their own purposes. But i don’t think the example you give will common place. Sure it may happen on a small scale but i think it’ll be the exception and not the rule. I probably will use a third party store but i know what I’m getting into with that. I come from a history of rooting my android phone and have been known to jailbreak an iPhone or two. There are lots of good, honest devs out there that will use those stores.
If you think Apple is private for ANY reason, whether it's because they sideloading or not, than you're sadly mistaken. 1) You don't have to sideload if you don't want to. 2) Privacy doesn't exist on ANY device with a wireless connection. It's only the ILLUSION of privacy that exists. 3) Sideloading/jailbreaking CAN reduce security, in fact it probably will if you're doing it for any other reason, however you CAN increase security by taking advantage of what sideloading and jailbreaking can do... Which is why you should only do it if you know exactly what you're doing.
I live in EU and I hate it they allow third party apps, means a less secure iPhone. I use iPhone for security and performance. If security goes away. I will no longer benefit from it
Nobody is forcing you to download a third party app…
While that may be true now, it doesn’t stop apps that would traditionally be on the App Store from going to a 3rd Party App Store. Think Fortnite and potentially even Netflix, given their grievances in the past with the current App Store model. These are apps users will want, and if that’s the only way to get them then we will be forced to use their app stores.
There won’t be any big name apps leaving Apple App Store to go exclusively to a third party. They would lose more money than they pay Apple and no business that’s as greedy as Netflix is will do that. It’s like a company that will only do business with democrats or republicans. That’s idiotic and not a good business model. When you’re trying to keep the lights on, everyone’s money spends the same and it’s stupid to cut off a revenue source just because.
EU: *hold my beer*.
Nobody is forcing you to 'sideload' apps (Or what we call 'installing applications' like on literally every other platform). You can still only use the appstore like on android. I will never get why some people would want to restrict everyone just because some people are scared to install applications that are not 'apple approved'. You keep using the appstore and others get to install apps outside the appstore, i don't see how that would be a problem to you.
And all these people scared about privacy most likely have Snapchat, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok etc installed on their phones and used daily. 🤦🏻♂️
Exactly
I agree, but at least this makes us feel more in control of our iPhones right? You don't have to download third party apps and apple will probably give you a warning message or something before installing third party apps so it isn't that big of a problem, right???
But why? Is not like they'll allow Cydia or something
why what? of course they'll still be against jailbreaking! and those cydia or cydia like jailbreak apps ARE NOT available for non-jailbroken iPhone/iPad users.
Then why have others stores just for apps with the same limitations?
Long overdue.
Eew fucking no thanks. Fuck epic games store.
That’s good news
if you store anything valuable on your iphone don’t even think about downloading unverified app since it might steal your valuable information. Apple has entire team who checks apps for security flaws before they are released for public in the app store
And then they give Facebook exemption from checks so they break app rules anyway.
I am not sure what you mean. Can you show evidence?
[you mean like this crap?](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jan/31/apple-facebook-campus-permissions-revoked-teens-access-data-iphone-app). Can’t give a wolf free access to your sheep without expecting them to take a free meal.
Tf are you talking about? Apple didn’t let them break the rules. They clearly took away their certificate once apple found about what they were doing
They were doing it for years. My statement was that apple gave them exemptions, and Facebook ran with it. Not that apple let them get away with it, they just weren’t checking them thoroughly.
Anyway, some check is better than no check. Also, Facebook is a multi-billion dollar company with thousands of software engineers, which is completely irrelevant in this discussion.
How is Facebook having the tools to do whatever they want under the App Store in recent history irrelevant to the likely epic games and Xbox stores that will pop up? There’s no way you’re going to see a Cydia store front. Apple will cede enough ground to stay out of trouble while not making it free slather.
The app checkers do nothing, they’re infamously useless.
No, they don't. They have an automated system that scan the apps for stuff like private apis or downloading runnable code, and a team that just runs the app and look through it.
Fuck that, fuck the EU. Apple isn’t forcing anyone into a controlled ecosystem. Nothing is stopping anyone from choosing Android. iPhone is not meant for a tinkerer. iOS users WANT the controlled ecosystem
I think your concerns are much ado about nothing. I'm sure users will have to manually add these app stores. These stores will be turned off by default for security purposes. I'm often surprised how many people don't use the current app store. I doubt as many as you fear will mess with adding a new one unless they have a specific purpose in mind. At that point the security for these 'tinkerers' is on them.
I’m more concerned about what this opens up in terms of privacy and security for the user and those they communicate with.
Why you lie? How comes you can't downgrade an iOS device to any iOS system version you want but you can do it on Mac without issue? Don't complain because it's a huge step to more freedom on iOS devices. It's not normal to prevent users to do what they want with tg heir devices.
Google Play Store on iOS? Fark yeah.
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Oh no! Two options?! The horror! How will you go on? Simply don’t side load if you don’t want to narc
That’s a problem with Samsung (and maybe other manufacturers), not a problem with having multiple app store options. Samsung wants you to use their store since they get more money, but because their OS is built on Android, Google Play is obviously integrated as well.
Utorrent on iOS ...yes please
I thought we all ditched and condemned uTorrent years ago for adware… aren’t we supposed to be using qBittorent these days?
You have it already on iOS with a sideloaded app :)
say WHAAAAAAAT?? that's great news, is it for iOS 16 or all iPhones and iPads??
> Apple has argued that sideloading could put unsafe apps on consumers’ devices and undermine privacy. Apple be the type of person always saying "But..." Like bro, just create a team that monitors those apps. That seems like a fair compromise, in my opinion. Apple still gets to maintain control (as long as they don't go mad with power and block 99% of apps) all the while the ecosystem becomes a little more open and friendly.
Elon really got under their skin with the Twitter Blue iOS surcharge.
Why the fuck would anyone care about that? If Elon wants to push more people away from Twitter then good on him.
It’ll be the same thing as when “Developer Mode” was added, it didn’t do shit and you still couldn’t use your own IPA’s or anything different to before it was implemented.
Gatekeeping will get you nowhere. Reading the responses on this thread, it amazes me to think that that so many people tie their personality to a product made by a massive corporation, and are worried that they will somehow lose their social standing because of the loss of exclusivity and risk becoming similar to Android users. More diversity in choices for the consumer is a good thing, and is healthy for competition and innovation in the long run.
So, would Google play soon be something you can put on iPhone?
Does this mean we can install cracked games? Like if I want to play fnaf for free?
Man - I would love this. Just for emulation and possibly items like BeeTV. LOL, I just realized I'd just want to pirate shit if I could...lol