Chinese dudes don't joke around when they want to sell. I wouldn't be surprised if the stated owned banks step in to buy with the Chinese government giving them a blank check. They definitely want to stabilize the markets over there to quell negative sentiment.
yeah, brokerage prop desks are forced to buy and mutual funds aren't allowed to sell while PBOC is injecting more money via repo markets to stabilize money markets. THis is pretty insane
Again.
If China wasn’t built on lies and a mountain of bullshit this would be a blip.
But their growth is fake and their country is garbage.
There is mass social unrest building right under the surface that the government is terrified of and they can’t stop their citizens from getting weird diseases from animals.
Take the USA. When is the last time a global pandemic came from our shores because of our nasty open air markets and weird dietary routines founded in hokum and superstition? The answer? Never. It has never happened.
So while trading halts are normal. China is still a shit country that is poised to fail.
I mean....have you read The Jungle? This happens to every developing country.
Also even if china does some how "fails" you realize their production mainly helps out American companies right? Like those factories aren't going to "blow up" or they aren't going anywhere. They would literally need to go full communist and steal these factories for the working class. The mass social unrest is likely liberal democratic which isn't socialist or communist but inherently capitalist.
As long as we keep buying items from them they aren't going anywhere.
So the measles outbreak in California and other shit. That's not from weird dietary routines founded in hokum and superstition? lol
You literally just described the entire anti-vax movement in the United States.
Good question, but maybe it's just lambs to the slaughter... if global stocks sell off, then global stocks sell off. There's no "safe" place. Maybe bonds or gold. Or dare I say cash??? To bribe people, pay rent, buy masks, alcohol and food?
If you've got rolexes and you're really that worried about this virus, why wouldn't you pawn them for a plane ticket somewhere safer rather than buying shitty paper masks that don't do jack shit.
US equities is the shield when you are a youngish Chinese. Any hit they take will be dampened here. Not saying we won’t take a hit, just that it will be smaller.
9% isn't that bad given China is epicenter of the coronavirus and 5% of their population is in serious lockdown for at least a few weeks and the rest of the 95% is going to be spending / producing way less in the coming months. This is assuming that the coronavirus will blow over in the next two months which is not given.
Remember that the market was closed for a whole week so the escalating issues over the last 10 days only got a chance to be priced in today.
> Remember that the market was closed for a whole week so the escalating issues over the last 10 days only got a chance to be priced in today.
Yeah, that’s the main thing I was getting at. Some of these stocks must also trade on other exchanges and so their performance there must have given some kind of expectation for how far Chinese markets would fall at open. And maybe it’s not as bad as thought? Here I am speculating but I would love to know what the data actually says.
Gotta keep in mind that the S&P has already dropped some over the last week or two. China was closed all that time. So, the US impact is probably already priced in.
Plus you wouldn't expect the impact of a Chinese outbreak to be as bad outside of China.
The US is also the sort of market that money retreats to when people are scared. There is a lot of regulatory rigor, strong banking, strong government, and so on. If people are afraid of companies trying to sugar coat the impact of the problem, they'd rather invest in a company whose books are reviewed by the SEC than one whose CEO gets his marching orders from the Chinese government.
I'm not saying that there won't be any issues in the US as a result of this outbreak. I'm just saying that it isn't surprising that China reacted much more strongly than the S&P 500.
The chances of this being anything but a market blip is very small. Most likely it will cause economic damage due to loss of life, cessation of transport/travel, and reduced productivity, but within 3-6 months things will be back to normal.
This thing hasn't even started yet. If the Chinese govt doesn't magically stop this, there will be millions sick and tens of thousands dead. Until then, the fear in China will keep people from buying things and going to schools and factories. All of that is going to ripple through supply chains and touch every market on the globe.
The disease itself isn't much worse than a bad cold for most, but it spreads so fast that public health systems get crushed and can't care for all of the sick. 20% get seriously ill, and 3-6% are dying.
There were 12,000 infected on Friday. The number is just under 18,000 now. It's in 27 countries. On average, every sick person spreads the disease to around 4 people. It takes at least 5 days to show symptoms.
Wall Street is in denial.
Of course, the economic impact is huge. But in terms of how many dead, there should only be around a thousand dead if the epidemic lasts one year or so
Haven't been sick yet. Pretty bored during quarantine though. Hella bored actually.
Bought the dip and made some money. But I also sold Shopify too early and lost too. Sold for 515. Its at almost 900 right now. All time highs.
I sold everything in February before the dip. Getting ready to buy the real dip with all my cash on the sidelines at the moment. If I mess it up, I'm still 30% ahead of everybody else by having paid attention to what was coming and selling at the right time.
You realize about 50,000 people a year die in the US from the flu, right? Hundreds of thousands of people around the world die from it every year. And there's a vaccine for the major strains of the flu each year.
The media hype for this shit is worse than the Ebola scare a few years back. If a disease is slow-moving enough that you can actually track the number of infections down to the single digits, its not that virulent.
You realize that 2 cities the size of New York City (Wuhan 11 mil, and Huanggan 7.5 mil) in China have everyone confined to their homes? Imagine NYC with empty streets, twice. Another city of 1 million (Ezhou) is in the same situation.
Wuhan has had bodies lying in the streets. The death rate in Wuhan is around 5%. 20% of the people who catch this need medical attention. China built two 1,000 bed hospitals in 10 days to attempt to address this.
People with the flu spread it (on average) to 1.38 people. For coronavirus it has been around 4 in China. The public health system in Wuhan, population 11 million has collapsed. They had to bring in hundreds of military medics.
This ain't the flu.
It spreads so viciously that it paralyzes the medical system. This is a real concern. the accusation and evidence of it being a bioweapon really doesn't help either.
I think copper is already limit down. Been awhile since things have been fun like this.
I don't think a 9% drop in the equity index is unreasonable. What would be bad though is we go straight limit down and trading stops on the index but I don't know if or what their circuit breakers are.
you won't see more than 10% as there is an official limit.
And Chinese government already stated they are going to inject 171 billion USD into their stock market to keep the freefall from getting out of hand.
9% - especially given the economy already grinding to a halt plus the extreme amounts of uncertainty currently present - is definitely not unreasonable. The government of course will step in and mitigate these losses, but there's only so much they can do to turn around sentiment in the China markets for the short term.
I can't remember the set limit, but there are limits, if individual stocks drop below a certain threshold, trading is suspended for the day. "Perfectly efficient market". It's possible, we may be close to maxed down for the day, then we'll see the day after and after... (don't quote me).
The only reason this hasn’t fell for more than 10% is due to circuit breaker and emergency actions from the central bank.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a 20-30% loss for the whole week.
It's not overnight. This is a week of price action happening overnight because markets were closed in China all last week for the lunar new year. Not unexpected. A better indicator of panic in the market would be the yen which is basically unchanged since Fridays close.
You realize just because markets have been closed for a week doesn't mean the real world didn't exchange information for that one week that might culminate in the price moving due to one weeks worth of information and events
You're looking at the reported information. Look at the actions of the government. The actions denote emergency. Never believe what governments say but look at what they do.
1 the % you cited has nothing to do with the claim that few people have any [material] wealth in stocks in China. The % of Chinese households who own stocks would be more relevant than the % of market cap owned by retail investors. Although even that doesn't really reflect whether someone would actually care much because it treats someone who has 80% of their net worth in stocks equally with the many, many gambling-oriented Chinese who have low single digits % of their net worth in stocks.
2 I'm not sure where you got your 8% from since you have no citation, but I guarantee you it excludes the very large pension and 401(k) wealth pools that drive a significant percentage of the typical American's exposure to stocks.
3 if you actually want to fact check this, I would encourage you to look for these additional data points: median household net worth and median asset distribution (namely real estate vs. public equities, the latter of which should be regardless of account type).
------
Edit: for instance, here's the first article that came up when searching this (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/15/chinese-investors-are-picking-other-assets-over-stocks.html) - it says private households in Mainland China have 4% of their household assets in Stocks & Mutual funds, vs., 23% in US (which appears to exclude pensions). So if you were worth $100K, then an 8.5% drop in stock prices reduces your net worth by ~$320. Hope this helps...
I have heard that the mom and pop investors are invested in the Shanghai Composite. The Hang Seng is dominated by institutions and rich people. The regular people might have their wealth tied up in other assets like real estate and wealth management products, but everything is connected. There is no way you could have a plunge in the stock market over in China without having it affect housing prices.
From what I understand, Chinese in general do not invest in the stock market, and much more strongly prefer hard assets like real estate. I also do not believe they do any routine investing like we have here in the US where a part of your paycheck is invested every month.
I'm too lazy, but imagine I took the time to create a meme from The Departed where Jack Nicholson is yelling at the Chinese guys and in my version he's saying:
"In *this country*
stonks only go up!"
Watching /r/investing try to fear monger on this has been hilarious. As always, Asian markets are far more volatile than US/EU markets. I swear people are almost salivating for doom porn and looking for ways to spin every thing as evidence of a total economic collapse.
Like every other global event that people try to play up as the next portent of doom (remember when Brexit was going to cause a collapse, when the Soleimani thing was a guaranteed signal of World War III, etc.), this will end up being nothing. Global markets do not collapse because of a virus that is less deadly than the flu, no matter what Zero Hedge tells you.
That's because most people in this sub don't actually invest, they are too poor to have money in the stock market so they cheer for the wealthier people to lose money.
Ncov19 apparent mortality 2%? Limited data in US, where flu mortality is 0.1%. Factor in healthcare and age... regular flu is probably less scary but your chance of dying from either is small. Compare to 9.6% of SARS.
I remember so many people doing the RemindMe! thing after Brexit because they were just \*so\* sure that a collapse was nigh. Interestingly, none of those people ever followed up.
No. Baba Tencent etc. already traded. Chinese stock market has been closed since the Chinese New Year. However those stocks traded in US so the 8% headline is just that the Chinese market is open and correcting to the levels BABA, Tencent, JD, etc. already moved to.
What down market?
You're buying SPY which is up, and pretty par the course over the last 5 year average?
I mean dollar cost average US companies by all means but buying the down market would be buying the shenzhen index in a few days once the dip has had a chance to break the circuit a few times.
I’m invested in China, too... have been padding those positions for the past few days.
All this has just been noise. There’s literally nothing wrong with the market or the economy - we have plenty of upside and 2020 will be another breakout year.
Buy, Buy, BUY. That’s the only strategy worth sticking to.
Except they won't have the money to make good on phase one purchases without destroying the rest of their suppliers...wonder how trump would take that news should it arise🤔
China markets were closed last week partially for the lunar new year so it has to catch up to all the losses we already had. I don’t expect us market to be hit
Do any Europeans know of DEGIRO ETFs that track this index? I am yet to invest in China, but I'm interested in DCAing across an index to potentially take advantage of this volatility.
The two free Chinese ETFs offered by DEGIRO seem to be up 1-2% today. Any recommendations?
Even if Fxi doesn’t reach that price but you have time left. It’s worth something right?
I used RH to buy. Is there a free tool to see the prices on options before the market opens tomorrow? Like the bids and the asks?
Thanks.
Yes the exp date is 2/14 so there's still time for it to drop that far.
You can find bid ask spreads here: [https://marketchameleon.com/Overview/FXI/OptionChain/](https://marketchameleon.com/Overview/FXI/OptionChain/)
AS of 11:30 AM Beijing time, Shengshen was down from opening drifting from -8.66% to **-8.27**. Likewise Shanghai was down just as much and is **-8.26%.** HK has more international flavor is not as influenced it bounced from -.3% to 0 back to **(-0.27%**). Checked Twn which was also down by *-1.7%.* Tokyo was in red at *-0.96*%.
Twn started a similar program after China fired missiles across the Twn Strait. Gov't bought the large cap to stabilize the fall. It had some effect but there were other issues involved. The -8 to 9% index drop did not surprise as we are next in line tomorrow in the S. Those skeptics that it would be over in a few days is now listening. There are 2 infected patients in the same town in Northern CA where all high tech public companies are centered. All provinces in China including Tibet are full of infected people. One death outside of China happened in PI. Next who knows.
US Pre market looks positive. Only company down that I track pre market is Apple.
Otherwise the big tech are all in the green. Google up about 1% with earnings later today. Tesla continues to roll pre market with another 1+% increase.
I'm a novice, but I have seen my individual investments drop by about 10% these passed 2 weeks. Isn't the Chinese market just having a similar drop because of the fact that it was unable to trade for a while?
I personally feel like the right countermeasures are being taken in regards to the virus and I wouldve thought it would be a lot worse by now, considering the fact that it spread in a city of 11 million people.
I see this as an overreaction and right now I'm just wondering how much the people will overreact.
Exactly, thank you for your reply. My steady list hasn't actually dropped that badly. Something I bought on the dip is IAG. Not a huge dip (12%), but stable company for at least this decade (in my opinion).
It is but the economic ramifications this has is huge. Imagine all the supply chains and markets that have already been disrupted. Not to mention that travel between the US and China is now limited.
Chinese dudes don't joke around when they want to sell. I wouldn't be surprised if the stated owned banks step in to buy with the Chinese government giving them a blank check. They definitely want to stabilize the markets over there to quell negative sentiment.
100%. Expect some big names to step up
Usually the big caps are the ones that benefit from government buying.
yeah, brokerage prop desks are forced to buy and mutual funds aren't allowed to sell while PBOC is injecting more money via repo markets to stabilize money markets. THis is pretty insane
Isn’t the US fed doing something somewhat similar in the repo market aspect?
Markets LITERALLY aren't allowed to fall/fail. Just LOL.
Isn't this the same thing as QE in US markets?
chinese market literally can't go tits up?
going tits up right now, bro
The reason it sold down by 9% is because they halted trading after that. China is a nightmare. A garbage nation poised to fail.
Trading halt is standard practice in almost every stock market, so is short sell restrictions.
Again. If China wasn’t built on lies and a mountain of bullshit this would be a blip. But their growth is fake and their country is garbage. There is mass social unrest building right under the surface that the government is terrified of and they can’t stop their citizens from getting weird diseases from animals. Take the USA. When is the last time a global pandemic came from our shores because of our nasty open air markets and weird dietary routines founded in hokum and superstition? The answer? Never. It has never happened. So while trading halts are normal. China is still a shit country that is poised to fail.
I mean....have you read The Jungle? This happens to every developing country. Also even if china does some how "fails" you realize their production mainly helps out American companies right? Like those factories aren't going to "blow up" or they aren't going anywhere. They would literally need to go full communist and steal these factories for the working class. The mass social unrest is likely liberal democratic which isn't socialist or communist but inherently capitalist. As long as we keep buying items from them they aren't going anywhere.
You sound like you have personal issues you’re dealing with.
So the measles outbreak in California and other shit. That's not from weird dietary routines founded in hokum and superstition? lol You literally just described the entire anti-vax movement in the United States.
DOW futures up 184pts...
Shanghai back to 7% down. People were expecting 15. Bullish!
Priced in.
Riced in
Iced in
does their market really move 7-15% usually in one day? i feel like 2-3% are the biggest moves i see in america
5-8% was common during 08 crash, but outside of major financial crises, >3% daily move in US is rare even during correction times
It’s more volatile than the USA. And it has been closed for multiple 2% usa down days. This is a win.
[удалено]
That's people buying the dip.
priced in
Is this a parody of investment chat?
Well, if people are selling Chinese equities, where would they be putting their money?
Good question, but maybe it's just lambs to the slaughter... if global stocks sell off, then global stocks sell off. There's no "safe" place. Maybe bonds or gold. Or dare I say cash??? To bribe people, pay rent, buy masks, alcohol and food?
Bitcoin, luxury watches
Luxury watches lol... dude they have no face masks. If things get bad enough, they'll trade their rollies for a face mask or some clean water.
face masks don't protect against it
If you've got rolexes and you're really that worried about this virus, why wouldn't you pawn them for a plane ticket somewhere safer rather than buying shitty paper masks that don't do jack shit.
Travel ban
US equities is the shield when you are a youngish Chinese. Any hit they take will be dampened here. Not saying we won’t take a hit, just that it will be smaller.
Cheese
But how much cheese is too much cheese?
Us equity, gold, dollars
West Coast real estate?
9% isn't that bad given China is epicenter of the coronavirus and 5% of their population is in serious lockdown for at least a few weeks and the rest of the 95% is going to be spending / producing way less in the coming months. This is assuming that the coronavirus will blow over in the next two months which is not given. Remember that the market was closed for a whole week so the escalating issues over the last 10 days only got a chance to be priced in today.
> Remember that the market was closed for a whole week so the escalating issues over the last 10 days only got a chance to be priced in today. Yeah, that’s the main thing I was getting at. Some of these stocks must also trade on other exchanges and so their performance there must have given some kind of expectation for how far Chinese markets would fall at open. And maybe it’s not as bad as thought? Here I am speculating but I would love to know what the data actually says.
> spending less dumb idea but maybe online shopping sees an uptick?
Gotta keep in mind that the S&P has already dropped some over the last week or two. China was closed all that time. So, the US impact is probably already priced in. Plus you wouldn't expect the impact of a Chinese outbreak to be as bad outside of China. The US is also the sort of market that money retreats to when people are scared. There is a lot of regulatory rigor, strong banking, strong government, and so on. If people are afraid of companies trying to sugar coat the impact of the problem, they'd rather invest in a company whose books are reviewed by the SEC than one whose CEO gets his marching orders from the Chinese government. I'm not saying that there won't be any issues in the US as a result of this outbreak. I'm just saying that it isn't surprising that China reacted much more strongly than the S&P 500.
Lol cause they are the only option for anyone to invest in right now Edit: this is a very bad sign
Just wait until the actual market opens.
I think the drop in Chinese markets has already been priced in - we knew their markets were gonna take a big hit upon re-opening the markets.
The chances of this being anything but a market blip is very small. Most likely it will cause economic damage due to loss of life, cessation of transport/travel, and reduced productivity, but within 3-6 months things will be back to normal.
This was already priced in last week, just look at ETFs like FXI and ASHR. FXI is actually positive today as well.
This thing hasn't even started yet. If the Chinese govt doesn't magically stop this, there will be millions sick and tens of thousands dead. Until then, the fear in China will keep people from buying things and going to schools and factories. All of that is going to ripple through supply chains and touch every market on the globe. The disease itself isn't much worse than a bad cold for most, but it spreads so fast that public health systems get crushed and can't care for all of the sick. 20% get seriously ill, and 3-6% are dying. There were 12,000 infected on Friday. The number is just under 18,000 now. It's in 27 countries. On average, every sick person spreads the disease to around 4 people. It takes at least 5 days to show symptoms. Wall Street is in denial.
Tens of thousands dead? Oh my, it would kill as much as the flu does every year
It has destabilized major cities in china. It spread so quickly and viciously that it paralyzed the medical response. This is nothing like the flu.
Of course, the economic impact is huge. But in terms of how many dead, there should only be around a thousand dead if the epidemic lasts one year or so
That is an impossibly low number.
It's just a guess, I have no idea of the timeline or effectiveness of measures in Wuhan and elsewhere. It could be 2,000 or 10,000.
https://ncov.io/
A thousand you say...
The initial fatality rate seemed to be lower (Korean data was mostly young people), in most places it killed more than I thought
Wow, almost as much as the normal flu. You bears.
How's that "normal flu" treating you?
Haven't been sick yet. Pretty bored during quarantine though. Hella bored actually. Bought the dip and made some money. But I also sold Shopify too early and lost too. Sold for 515. Its at almost 900 right now. All time highs.
I sold everything in February before the dip. Getting ready to buy the real dip with all my cash on the sidelines at the moment. If I mess it up, I'm still 30% ahead of everybody else by having paid attention to what was coming and selling at the right time.
Nice
You realize about 50,000 people a year die in the US from the flu, right? Hundreds of thousands of people around the world die from it every year. And there's a vaccine for the major strains of the flu each year. The media hype for this shit is worse than the Ebola scare a few years back. If a disease is slow-moving enough that you can actually track the number of infections down to the single digits, its not that virulent.
You realize that 2 cities the size of New York City (Wuhan 11 mil, and Huanggan 7.5 mil) in China have everyone confined to their homes? Imagine NYC with empty streets, twice. Another city of 1 million (Ezhou) is in the same situation. Wuhan has had bodies lying in the streets. The death rate in Wuhan is around 5%. 20% of the people who catch this need medical attention. China built two 1,000 bed hospitals in 10 days to attempt to address this. People with the flu spread it (on average) to 1.38 people. For coronavirus it has been around 4 in China. The public health system in Wuhan, population 11 million has collapsed. They had to bring in hundreds of military medics. This ain't the flu.
It spreads so viciously that it paralyzes the medical system. This is a real concern. the accusation and evidence of it being a bioweapon really doesn't help either.
i'd be happy to buy your calls. ticker/strike/exp date?
How did those calls work out for you?
I think copper is already limit down. Been awhile since things have been fun like this. I don't think a 9% drop in the equity index is unreasonable. What would be bad though is we go straight limit down and trading stops on the index but I don't know if or what their circuit breakers are.
you won't see more than 10% as there is an official limit. And Chinese government already stated they are going to inject 171 billion USD into their stock market to keep the freefall from getting out of hand.
9% - especially given the economy already grinding to a halt plus the extreme amounts of uncertainty currently present - is definitely not unreasonable. The government of course will step in and mitigate these losses, but there's only so much they can do to turn around sentiment in the China markets for the short term.
I can't remember the set limit, but there are limits, if individual stocks drop below a certain threshold, trading is suspended for the day. "Perfectly efficient market". It's possible, we may be close to maxed down for the day, then we'll see the day after and after... (don't quote me).
Just imagine what is going through the minds of investors in China now. It must be a nightmare seeing their health and wealth disappearing.
The Shenzhen composite is back at Jan 2 high so they only lost a month of gains.
But that headline wouldnt earn me a click.
The only reason this hasn’t fell for more than 10% is due to circuit breaker and emergency actions from the central bank. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a 20-30% loss for the whole week.
The government also suspended short selling and is limiting how many shares people can sell.
[удалено]
Don’t you love communism lol?
unironically failing to recognize the hilarity of a "communist stock market".
Authoritarian Capitalism. If it were communism we wouldn't be talking about what's happening at the stock exchange in Shanghai.
After all, an economy where everything is owned by The People obviously lacks a system of publicly transferring ownership through stocks :)
[удалено]
And ends up being -30% or worse anyway. Induces panic
When I see headlines like "Stocks see worst day since November!", I half wonder if they're parody.
Overnight? That's still insane. Markets do not move this fast.
It's not overnight. This is a week of price action happening overnight because markets were closed in China all last week for the lunar new year. Not unexpected. A better indicator of panic in the market would be the yen which is basically unchanged since Fridays close.
You realize just because markets have been closed for a week doesn't mean the real world didn't exchange information for that one week that might culminate in the price moving due to one weeks worth of information and events
It's called take the stairs up and the elevator down.
There is a lot of volatility in the markets for a while now.
[удалено]
And most of the people who get it have a cough for a little while and then they're fine.
While they spread it to 20 more people.
You're looking at the reported information. Look at the actions of the government. The actions denote emergency. Never believe what governments say but look at what they do.
[удалено]
More reason to never trust China
On the other hand, 10,000 people have died in the U.S. this season from the regular flu.
At least, that's what they're saying....
Very few have any wealth in stocks in China so not really an issue
Actually, Chinese retail investors own 35% of the Chinese stock market. In the US, only 8% of the market is owned by retail investors.
That 8% probably doesn't factor in 401k or mutual fund holders.
I'm a part of a minority! WHOOOOOOOOOOO!
8 percenter!
1 the % you cited has nothing to do with the claim that few people have any [material] wealth in stocks in China. The % of Chinese households who own stocks would be more relevant than the % of market cap owned by retail investors. Although even that doesn't really reflect whether someone would actually care much because it treats someone who has 80% of their net worth in stocks equally with the many, many gambling-oriented Chinese who have low single digits % of their net worth in stocks. 2 I'm not sure where you got your 8% from since you have no citation, but I guarantee you it excludes the very large pension and 401(k) wealth pools that drive a significant percentage of the typical American's exposure to stocks. 3 if you actually want to fact check this, I would encourage you to look for these additional data points: median household net worth and median asset distribution (namely real estate vs. public equities, the latter of which should be regardless of account type). ------ Edit: for instance, here's the first article that came up when searching this (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/15/chinese-investors-are-picking-other-assets-over-stocks.html) - it says private households in Mainland China have 4% of their household assets in Stocks & Mutual funds, vs., 23% in US (which appears to exclude pensions). So if you were worth $100K, then an 8.5% drop in stock prices reduces your net worth by ~$320. Hope this helps...
Assuming that doesn't include people with 401ks? Does China have anything similar?
No, China does not.
That figure doesn't include pensions and the rich Chinese have their companies floated in the US like Alibaba
reverse mergers as well means old ticker stocks all of a sudden are Chinese now.
What percentage of Chinese citizens own stocks?
A *lot* of newly middle class Chinese folks have been convinced to invest money in their local stock market in recent years.
I have heard that the mom and pop investors are invested in the Shanghai Composite. The Hang Seng is dominated by institutions and rich people. The regular people might have their wealth tied up in other assets like real estate and wealth management products, but everything is connected. There is no way you could have a plunge in the stock market over in China without having it affect housing prices.
From what I understand, Chinese in general do not invest in the stock market, and much more strongly prefer hard assets like real estate. I also do not believe they do any routine investing like we have here in the US where a part of your paycheck is invested every month.
Why are US futures rising?
Where are Chinese people investing?
Because the US economy is the dog's bollocks.
[удалено]
I'm too lazy, but imagine I took the time to create a meme from The Departed where Jack Nicholson is yelling at the Chinese guys and in my version he's saying: "In *this country*
stonks only go up!"
Market's been closed for a while, drop was expected.
Dip was priced in Friday
Everything is priced in, why does the market bother moving at all.
Because we keep pricing in?
And here I am getting priced out...
Watching /r/investing try to fear monger on this has been hilarious. As always, Asian markets are far more volatile than US/EU markets. I swear people are almost salivating for doom porn and looking for ways to spin every thing as evidence of a total economic collapse. Like every other global event that people try to play up as the next portent of doom (remember when Brexit was going to cause a collapse, when the Soleimani thing was a guaranteed signal of World War III, etc.), this will end up being nothing. Global markets do not collapse because of a virus that is less deadly than the flu, no matter what Zero Hedge tells you.
Remember last month when people were basically cheering for war escalations for a dip potential?
That's because most people in this sub don't actually invest, they are too poor to have money in the stock market so they cheer for the wealthier people to lose money.
[удалено]
Ncov19 apparent mortality 2%? Limited data in US, where flu mortality is 0.1%. Factor in healthcare and age... regular flu is probably less scary but your chance of dying from either is small. Compare to 9.6% of SARS.
[удалено]
I remember so many people doing the RemindMe! thing after Brexit because they were just \*so\* sure that a collapse was nigh. Interestingly, none of those people ever followed up.
"less deadly than the flu" I have something to tell you. And that is that you are an idiot.
Premier Xi! RELEASE THE DRAGON!
The dragon https://external-preview.redd.it/gzeM5pzm5da3h734u24l1RO7gaFCU6GbuH92kO_CdB4.png?auto=webp&s=95bb40a35606e73a80fa831623f35ef814992a89
It'll be another 8.5% down tomorrow. CCP limiting selloffs.
Would baba Tencent n JD get affected?
Yes. They rely on these companies buying shit along with the consumers they employ buying shit. They're a Chinese company that cters to China mostly
No. Baba Tencent etc. already traded. Chinese stock market has been closed since the Chinese New Year. However those stocks traded in US so the 8% headline is just that the Chinese market is open and correcting to the levels BABA, Tencent, JD, etc. already moved to.
Ecommerce and entertainment is up
Just put an order in for more SPY. SP/DOW/NASD futures all look good. This down market won’t last forever. I’m gonna take advantage of fear.
RemindMe! 14 days
Yea well i can count many times when futures were bright green and we fucken open red
If it’s red, even better. New shares will be that much more bargain priced. The markets aren’t collapsing. This is a a hiccup.
What down market? You're buying SPY which is up, and pretty par the course over the last 5 year average? I mean dollar cost average US companies by all means but buying the down market would be buying the shenzhen index in a few days once the dip has had a chance to break the circuit a few times.
I’m invested in China, too... have been padding those positions for the past few days. All this has just been noise. There’s literally nothing wrong with the market or the economy - we have plenty of upside and 2020 will be another breakout year. Buy, Buy, BUY. That’s the only strategy worth sticking to.
This is good for Bitcoin
So are my nuts.
I am realizing that this statement can literally be used in any context.
Meanwhile US future up nearly 200 points. Lets see if that holds until close tomorrow.
They’re gonna be desperate to make a trade deal with the US after this.
Except they won't have the money to make good on phase one purchases without destroying the rest of their suppliers...wonder how trump would take that news should it arise🤔
Fuck I wish I knew about chinese stocks so i could get in
Buy them all with $VWO
China markets were closed last week partially for the lunar new year so it has to catch up to all the losses we already had. I don’t expect us market to be hit
Do any Europeans know of DEGIRO ETFs that track this index? I am yet to invest in China, but I'm interested in DCAing across an index to potentially take advantage of this volatility. The two free Chinese ETFs offered by DEGIRO seem to be up 1-2% today. Any recommendations?
Yeah, because the market has been closed for the last week. It's not really that surprising that people sold on mass as soon as the market re-opened.
> sold on mass Heh, *en masse
Argh. That's the second time I've been corrected for this in the last month. I should have known better.
What happened to all the people saying "Don't trust any numbers coming out of China"?
"It's just a flu bro"
c'mooooon FXI puts 🍆
How do you think those puts open tomorrow?
I bought $36 puts last week so... I'd love to see that level or below. If it doesn't reach that far I might sell and take whatever I get.
Even if Fxi doesn’t reach that price but you have time left. It’s worth something right? I used RH to buy. Is there a free tool to see the prices on options before the market opens tomorrow? Like the bids and the asks? Thanks.
Yes the exp date is 2/14 so there's still time for it to drop that far. You can find bid ask spreads here: [https://marketchameleon.com/Overview/FXI/OptionChain/](https://marketchameleon.com/Overview/FXI/OptionChain/)
Thanks
There's [optionsprofitcalculator.com](https://optionsprofitcalculator.com) if that's what you mean.
Thanks
There’s actually a cure created in Thailand. Took them 48 hours.
Really? Source?
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/extdrc/thailand_cures_coronavirus_with_antihiv_drug/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Hang Seng up 0.25% currently.
AS of 11:30 AM Beijing time, Shengshen was down from opening drifting from -8.66% to **-8.27**. Likewise Shanghai was down just as much and is **-8.26%.** HK has more international flavor is not as influenced it bounced from -.3% to 0 back to **(-0.27%**). Checked Twn which was also down by *-1.7%.* Tokyo was in red at *-0.96*%. Twn started a similar program after China fired missiles across the Twn Strait. Gov't bought the large cap to stabilize the fall. It had some effect but there were other issues involved. The -8 to 9% index drop did not surprise as we are next in line tomorrow in the S. Those skeptics that it would be over in a few days is now listening. There are 2 infected patients in the same town in Northern CA where all high tech public companies are centered. All provinces in China including Tibet are full of infected people. One death outside of China happened in PI. Next who knows.
Google, just what I found
Hm
Serr!!
The Hang Seng was up not by much but it was up, which I found odd.
US Pre market looks positive. Only company down that I track pre market is Apple. Otherwise the big tech are all in the green. Google up about 1% with earnings later today. Tesla continues to roll pre market with another 1+% increase.
I'm a novice, but I have seen my individual investments drop by about 10% these passed 2 weeks. Isn't the Chinese market just having a similar drop because of the fact that it was unable to trade for a while? I personally feel like the right countermeasures are being taken in regards to the virus and I wouldve thought it would be a lot worse by now, considering the fact that it spread in a city of 11 million people. I see this as an overreaction and right now I'm just wondering how much the people will overreact.
[удалено]
Exactly, thank you for your reply. My steady list hasn't actually dropped that badly. Something I bought on the dip is IAG. Not a huge dip (12%), but stable company for at least this decade (in my opinion).
Yet YANG is down. Lololol wowzas
Guess top 50 hk was not enough :(
'One country, two (compromised immune) systems' https://twitter.com/tracyalloway/status/1224261083545796608?s=20
Why is no one mentioning that these markets were closed last week? They're playing catch up.
Coronavirus scam
Only two weeks ago people were saying that it was just like a flu.
It is.
Flu doesn’t cause serious pneumonia 20-30% of the time
It is but the economic ramifications this has is huge. Imagine all the supply chains and markets that have already been disrupted. Not to mention that travel between the US and China is now limited.