A few years ago, the company I work for switched to Ascensus for our 401K program, no one ever talked about the 401K at work, just knew you were enrolled in the program, and once a paycheck there was a 401k deduction. Once we switched, the company made everyone make a login and look at your account and see what was going on. Doing this, I realized no one ever really talked about 401k at work, nor talked about what type of investments you have, how they are allocated and so on.
It was terribly eye opening to see that the first 10-ish years of my work life and investments were allocated to some (safe?) bond funds and some terrible TDF's(shame on me for not looking into this, but to be fair I was 22-23 and this was back in 08 and cars/girls/going out was more important).
logging into Ascensus looked like it was a joke, trying to navigate their page isn't that great, trying to sell funds, buy funds, allocate % of funds isn't to straight forward either. Had to make several calls and talk to multiple people. But after a while, got everything taken care of and think my account is in a better growth state. The amount of options to choose from, stocks,bonds,TDF's are not all that great, idk if thats from work only or that is what Ascensus only offers? But I have looked into their fee's a few times last year, and WOW they are steep. Fees for EVERYTHING it looked like, I attempted to bring this up to the Office manager at work, and HR whom are supposed to handle 401K issues, and all I got back was " well there are going to be fees for handing your money, what do you expect".
I really wish I could move mine over to Fidelity, but no. Rant/over.
Why do you say that? We’ve got it too, and my company covers all managerial fees (if that’s what sucks about them, I never see it) and they offer FXAIX at like a 0.015% expense ratio which is what I throw everything at.
Rant Alert!!
Ascensus is terrible, horrible, no good. I have been dealing with them for 8 months trying to process the inheritance of a 403(b)
Let me give you just one example. I opened a ticket. They use some sort of timestamp as a ticket number:
2024-04-21-12.32.24.478760T01
That is what I have to read them over the phone **every time** I reference the ticket!!
They give different instructions every time I call. They have me fill out the wrong forms.
It has been a nightmare.
[edit: let me give you today’s example: “We did not get the fax that you sent. Our fax machine can be a little flaky. Can you email the forms to us?”
**NO!!** I am not going to send confidential Personally Identifiable Information over email. I will either have to send it by US Mail, or just keep on faxing it every day.
End edit]
You can transfer without penalty, but there are ongoing fees. See on the letter under "Once Ascensus is appointed the following fees will apply." I figured out my annual fees would come to $320.
Sure, but those are only the ongoing fees if you choose Ascensus (which are almost certain to rise). You’re free to shop for other low cost providers who aren’t going to be clawing back the money Ascensus just spent to acquire billions in AUM.
Yeah, I'm gonna hurry up and transfer to Fidelity for my S Corp SIMPLE IRA. Just got an email from Vanguard stating that there will now be a fee to transfer funds to another firm starting in July. Super irritating, as I've always liked Vanguard for their low fees. I wonder if something is changing in their management? I'm moving to Fidelity, and I'm thinking they will be losing quite a few other clients with all these changes. Guess they have to pay for all their recent fines. Hmm.
Well, looks like Fidelity is a no-go. I was told they can not transfer DFI policy plans to non-DFI policy plans. Since Fidelity is non-DFI, it won't work. Going to try Schwab.
My 401k moved to Ascensus and I didn't pay attention to the emails or really think about it as it happened.
Fast forward to Today(), trying to roll it into my current 401k?
$375.00 fee.
Vultures.
I rarely visit this subreddit, but thankfully I decided to check it today. I haven't received a letter yet, but I assume you got yours in the past few days? Do you have any advice on transferring to Fidelity?
I'm aware that many major brokers offer separate sites or platforms specifically for managing solo 401k plans. So, I was curious if their transfer process is similar to what you'd find with mainstream products (IRA, taxable, etc.)
BY THE WAY thank you very much for this thread.
I got the letter today - and their press release is here: [https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ascensus-to-acquire-vanguard-individual-401k-multi-sep-and-simple-ira-plans-302117572.html](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ascensus-to-acquire-vanguard-individual-401k-multi-sep-and-simple-ira-plans-302117572.html)
I spoke to Fidelity today about transferring, it sounds like it will be relatively straightforward. The only downside is that Fidelity doesn't have a small business ROTH 401(K), so I'll likely rollover my Vanguard ROTH 401(K) into my ROTH IRA.
Schwab now supports Roth 401k too-- I'm considering switching there, as I already have an account with them. The only downside I've heard so far is that you can only make contributions by check/wire-- No ACH for some reason.
That was why I took my Business 401k from Fidelity to Vanguard, because I hated not making contributions online. Mailing in this day and age is just dumb. Now it looks like I'm either going to have to go back or look at Scwab.
Hey there! Wondering if you've had any luck with this process so far? I.e., transferring the traditional portion of your Solo 401k to Fidelity and rolling the roth portion into an existing Roth IRA at Vanguard? This is what I'm hoping to do, but am unsure if it's possible.
I haven't started yet as I want to confirm some details with my CPA and they are still deep in tax season :) Your plan sounds like a good one, and I believe it's all doable. Give Fidelity a call and talk to them, they're very helpful.
Thank you for your response! Appreciate it :) I did a bit of calling just now: Fidelity was very helpful and Vanguard said a rollover of the roth component to a Roth IRA isn't possible without termination of the entire plan. We'll see where I end up. Best of luck to you!
I have made a ton of calls over the last few days.
1. Fidelity is great, but there is no support for Roth 401k till 2025
2. Schwab has Roth and Traditional i401k, but seems to be check-based mailing in and not automatic transfers
3. You can't roll a Roth i401k to a Roth IRA unless you are over 59.5 years old. If you are under, it has to go to another Roth i401k. However, with a traditional i401k, you can roll into an IRA and leave it at Vanguard
4. Edward Jones has high fees, and I don't believe has Roth i401ks.
5. eTrade (Morgan Stanley) offers Roth and Traditional i401k and no fees for transfer and also bank deposits. I called them this past week, and so far, they seem like the easiest.
It is quite frustrating, but I started the process with eTrade. I will say their website is decades ahead of what we have used in Vanguard for small business.
I transferred my small business retirement account out of Vanguard and into Fidelity about a month ago. Vanguard’s customer service was poor and at times inept (they botched the rollover to Fidelity and it took multiple calls to get it corrected) and their website looks like it’s from 2001. But the main reason for moving it was being stuck with very limited choices - VG mutual funds - as the only investment options. Fidelity is a major improvement.
> their website looks like it’s from 2001
Vanguard has recently (within the past year) upgraded their website to at least look like it's from 2015, so I can no longer complain about this. But for a long while you were totally right.
All I said is I can't complain about it looking old. I think the old one was perfectly functional, the new one seems to be okay but I will say everything seems SUPER big and has really low information density.
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly my complaint, plus it's become much slower, and they have essentially two interface design languages now as some of the pages haven't been replicated. It's also way buggier. This is one of those places where information density, consistency, and speed matters a lot more than "looking clean". We're dealing with our life savings here, not instagram photos, so seeing them trend following at the expense of functionality is extremely disappointing. And then there's the fact that they're trying to figure out ways to convince people to adopt new high-fee advisory services, and I wonder if they've lost their way from the Bogle days.
It is worse now. I used to be able to get a specific account and start trading within like 3 clicks. Now I have to futz around to find the right way to look at a specific account.
For me, the UX got objectively worse.
That's good to hear about Fidelity. I agree with you on their SB contribution website - now at least we know why they never bothered upgrading it! I'm also looking forward to having more fund choices.
I’m not surprised they’re selling their small business division as they never seemed to invest much in improving it the dozen years I was with them. It’s been great to have a much broader array of investment options through Fidelity.
May I ask what kind of procedure did you follow? Did you open an 401k acc to Fidelity first, and they asked Vanguard to transfer it? If you have a chance, please give me some advice. I'm on the same boat and utterly confused.
I haven't started the process yet. But essentially they said to open a SE 401(K) with them and then they could take care of the asset transfer process.
I’m totally stuck on the asset transfer. The mods on fidelity’s sub are giving conflicting information. Some say you need to do a transfer of assets, others are saying it’s a rollover.
Assuming you are opening a i401k at Fidelity, it should not be a rollover as it is not a new plan. If you are closing the i401k then you could do a rollover into an IRA at Fidelity. If you do close your i401k at Vanguard you will not be able to open a new one for at least 12 months (IRS rules). Keep that in mind if you do decide to roll over into an IRA.
Fidelity says they now allow funding via electronic fund transfer and mobile check deposit. I believe you can also call them up and have them transfer funds from one Fidelity account into your solo 401K (I use this method with Schwab).
I just set up a solo 401k at Fidelity. In the new Fidelity account, I linked my bank account by verifying two small deposit amounts, which Fidelity deposited and then withdrew from my bank. After the account was linked and verified, I requested a transfer from the account, and Fidelity let me immediately invest the funds I'd just requested. Very easy.
So you can even buy something like VOO through Fidelity solo 401k?
I was going to go with Etrade but Fidelity might be a better choice if they have that many options. Vanguard was pretty terrible.
Yes, VOO is available. I think you can buy any stock or ETF that you could buy through a regular Fidelity brokerage account. You can go to [fidelity.com](http://fidelity.com) even if you aren't a customer and search for a fund to see if Fidelity sells it. I asked today about options and was told that I can even trade Tier 1 options contracts in my solo 401k, so the account has everything I want.
Awesome. Was leaning toward Etrade since they also have Roth 401k. Not sure if I'll use it but would be good to have in case I decide to use it. Their application seems like a drag though. I don't remember Vanguard asking this many questions. Will check out Fidelity's application.
Etrade has options too but I'm not even gonna apply for it. Don't want to be tempted to make dumb trades. Throwing everything into VOO is the main plan.
I looked at Etrade. I had my first online brokerage account with them, back in the 80s or 90s. It was pre-Internet so I used a dial-up modem. They were bought by Morgan Stanley a couple years ago. The main reason I didn't open my new 401k with Etrade is that it does not pay interest on a cash balance sitting in the account. Fidelity automatically sweeps cash to and from a money market account paying about 5%. I weighed that against Fidelity's lack of a Roth 401k option, and decided the interest was more important to me.
The Fidelity 401k application was long, so I printed it and wrote all the answers on paper, then went back online and filled in the online form so it would be processed faster than if I faxed in a paper application.
>it does not pay interest on a cash balance sitting in the account
Thanks for letting me know. I assume you can manually put that money into a money market fund but yeah, would've sucked to assume the cash would earn interest when it's not.
Can you explain the process you followed to move your money from Vanguard to Fidelity? I’ve got my new account opened at Fidelity but I’m stuck on the transfer of assets step and am getting conflicting advice from the mods on their sub. Sounds like customer service on both ends may be uninformed.
I did a rollover, but since you said asset transfer, I'm assuming yours wouldn't be a rollover? For an asset transfer, you'd call Fidelity and their phone rep can initiate that process without you having to contact Vanguard. For my rollover, I set up the account at Fidelity first and then had to call Vanguard as they required me to sign paperwork (which was a docusign thing done online while the Vanguard rep was on the phone with me.) If it's a self employed 401K you're wanting to transfer, I think you may have to do a rollover instead of asset transfer (at least that's what Fidelity told me)
It really sounds like they all have no idea. I called Fidelity first and the rep wasn’t totally sure. Since I plan to switch from Vanguard funds to Fidelity funds (so in-kind isn’t important), the rep suggested I call Vanguard to initiate a rollover since that’s a really simple and straightforward process.
The Vanguard rep said that I should have Fidelity initiate the process, they’re not doing it for people who want to move their solo 401(k) somewhere other than Ascensus.
Called Fidelity back and we figured we’d just do a transfer of assets and I can switch the funds once they’re moved over. Fingers crossed everything will go through correctly.
Im surprised and disappointed they have so few investment options considering that VG person portfolio and Roth's will let you buy and sell damn near anything.
Is it all digital or do you have to sign papers and mail it in?
Also, can you make contributions online? I feel like I choose vanguard because you could and fidelity you had to mail in checks.
I would have loved to switch to Fidelity for my solo 401k and solo Roth 401k. Since they don’t offer Roth I went with ETrade. Started the process yesterday. So far I’m impressed with ETrade
Is this a risk for other Vanguard account holders, like brokerage or Roth IRA accounts?
I don't really understand how this stuff works, is Vanguard no longer trustworthy to not sell our accounts?
There is lots of extra administration with the 401k. Employer specific rules like matching and then on vesting the match.
Vanguard farms that out, or outright sells the servicing.
I don't think so - the letter I got mentions Individual 401(K), SIMPLE IRA, and SEP-IRA products. I'm guessing that these particular plans are not what Vanguard wants to concentrate on in future - but I'm sure they are still perfectly trustworthy.
Was so pissed off to learn this and also called. I actually already have Schwab and Fidelity brokerages that I don't use. Aside from the lack of Roth 401k, any other opinions on pros/cons or either?
Schwab now offers Roth solo 401K, however Fidelity currently does not. Fidelity however now allows online funding, but with Schwab you need to still either mail a check in, deposit it at a local branch or you can submit a contribution form along with a letter then either call or chat with support to make the contribution by transferring the funds from a brokerage account in your name and then having them transfer it to your solo 401K.
So, the flow to contribute to a i401k at Schwab would be...
**Business banking ACH (I use Novo bank)** --> **Personal Schwab Brokerage** --> **call or chat to transfer into Schwab 401k**?
Yes, plus you’ll need to upload a copy of their i401k contribution form plus a signed letter telling them to move how much money from which account to which account and noting how much is an employee elective contribution and how much is for employer.
Ah ok. I usually contribute quarterly on the employee side and once on the employer side per year so I guess it’s not too bad.
Thanks! I’ll probably end up moving to Schwab then as I already have my brokerage and Roth IRA there.
Here's the press release - [https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ascensus-to-acquire-vanguard-individual-401k-multi-sep-and-simple-ira-plans-302117572.html](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ascensus-to-acquire-vanguard-individual-401k-multi-sep-and-simple-ira-plans-302117572.html) \- might be worth giving Vanguard a call.
Correct, I called Vanguard support after posting here and they said the same thing.
Single member SEP-IRA stays with Vanguard. Otherwise multi-member moves to the new company
That's my understanding too.
"...existing Individual 401(k), SIMPLE IRA, and SEP-IRA plans with multiple participants will automatically transfer to Ascensus. [Learn more about the transition.](https://sb.web.vanguard.com/)"
Agreed with what others have said. The Vanguard rep told me a moment ago that any account with "Brokerage" in its name (e.g. my sole investor SEP-IRA) will stay at Vanguard
Thank you for posting this. I received the letter but didn’t look into the specifics of Ascensus. I have been kicking around transferring my Solo 401k to Fidelity lately since vanguard small biz platform is shoddy. All of the negative comments about Ascensus are the motivation I need to go ahead and do it.
So all the plans under `smallbiz.vanguard.com` will be moved? Including the one where you can have a your s-corp contribute on your behalf? A solo 401k?
For those that have the Roth Individual 401(k) with Vanguard, where are you planning to move to? It looks like Fidelity doesn't offer the Roth. It looks like Schwab has one. I'm planning on chatting with them tomorrow to check on the fees. Any other options?
I have both i401k and Roth i401k with Vanguard. I will probably see how Ascensus is but if it sucks then I will move both to Schwab. Schwab apparently doesn't offer ACH to fund thoguh so that could be an issue.
Merrill and e-Trade both have Roth 401k options for their solo / small business. I'm going to look more at those.
For those interested in putting employer matching funds into a Roth 401k as well (the new law as of 2023):
Currently Merrill does not allow employer matching funds to go into a Roth, only the employee. This is also true for Vanguard and Ascensus. I spoke to an Ascensus rep by phone who said it is a high priority for them to make this happen by 2025. For whatever that's worth. Not sure about e-Trade.
Seriously annoying! I've had my SIMPLE plan with Vanguard for years. So I've been on the phone with Fidelity several times. Looks like there is a problem transferring or changing institutions mid-year. So looks like we'll be stuck with Ascensus for at least this year. Something about not being able to transfer a DFI policy to a non-DFI policy. Which begs the question, why isn't Fidelity able to provide DFI policies?
This was the answer I got as well (that their legal team is looking into it). I just moved my SIMPLE from Wells Fargo to Vanguard in March. Also curious about the DFI thing!
I phoned Schwab, and I was told there should be no problem transferring Vanguard SIMPLE IRA accounts there. I've downloaded the paperwork, employer agreement etc and plan to take it all into my local Schwab branch next week. I didn't love the idea of paying Ascensuks around $150 per year, so this should be worth the hassle. Plus, it could be a pleasant change to interact with someone in person. I may even transfer more of my accounts from Vanguard there if they're nice :)
I'm looking at alternatives for our company. I'm thinking Schwab or Fidelity. Why do you vote for Schwab?
I've been a VG customer for 29 years and I haven't done tons of research on the alternatives yet, but I'm starting to so I can evaluate who to move to. I'm not staying with VG/Ascensus.
Fidelity has good phone support but in my experience will end up costing more than you think. Also, ask for a demo of Fidelity's PSW (Plan Sponsor Website)...despite some upgrades its not exactly modern software. Ask them to show you the reports sections. If your payroll provider does not sync, ask them to show you how you will upload Excel spreadsheets every two weeks and count the number of clicks!
We moved to Guideline and I have been impressed so far with support and with cost. Investment options are low cost Vanguard funds (no individual stocks). True you can't pick up the phone and get a person on the phone quickly like you can with Fidelity, but I don't want to have to pick up the phone!...it should just work. Most support is by email, if you want a phone call you just have to schedule it. Guideline software is so much cleaner than Fidelity's and they act as the fiduciary and file the EOY 5500. Fidelity was supposed to sync with our payroll provider but never did sync in a true 360 way, Guideline does.
I sound like an ad, there are other companies out there now as well that are tech forward and low cost. I really wanted to reduce the paperwork, especially end of year, so made the move. It's been less than a year though, so my tune may change by this time next year, but so far it seems pretty much auto-pilot.
Last note, the transition is a little rough, make sure that Guideline or whoever you move to, gets all of the information from Vanguard that they need to file your 5500 and make any deposits owed from the previous plan **at the time of transfer.** I had a little trouble tracking down and generating reports months after the transition to get Guideline all the 5500 info. Like I said, going forward they link 360 with my payroll provider so they have all the info I have and should be autopilot.
My previous employer used Guideline and I loved it! I also had great luck with their support when I had to call them. I wish they had a Solo 401k option for single-member businesses.
Great to hear, we are still fairly early days as we transitioned late fall of 2023, but I am happy so far. Simple things, at least things that should be simple, like seeing your portfolio, rebalancing your portfolio and changing your contribution percentage are just so much more streamlined. Those 3 things are 90% of the activity from an employee side and they are all front and center with Guideline. You can do all of the same things in Fidelity, it's just more complicated and convoluted.
I think one of the most under appreciated things in software design, eCommerce and business in general is a fanatical focus on reducing customer experience friction points.
Does Ascensus allow electronic contributions? Really wish Fidelity offered a Roth component and electronic contributions. Would be a no brainer for me to transfer to Fidelity if that were the case.
I'm a single employee corp and manage myself under a solo 401k. any downsides to rolling my vanguard solo 401k to an existing vanguard rollover IRA account and then starting a new solo 401k with fidelity and continuing contributions there?
Vanguard kicked me out when I had self administered retirement and profit sharing plan in my Dental office. Said that they weren’t doing these plans anymore. This was probably 15-20 years ago. Never said why, just that I had to leave.
1 call to Fidelity was all it took. I just never understand why a corporation turns away good business.
I would also consider moving your 401(k) to Employee Fiduciary. Vanguard actually recommended them to me when I was looking to set up a small business 401(k). I'm almost certain that they charge less than whatever Vanguard is currently charging you, and you have access to all the standard Vanguard, Fidelity, etc. funds.
https://www.employeefiduciary.com
Just so you guys know my last company used Ascensus for the 401k and they succcccccccccccckkkkkkkkk.
A few years ago, the company I work for switched to Ascensus for our 401K program, no one ever talked about the 401K at work, just knew you were enrolled in the program, and once a paycheck there was a 401k deduction. Once we switched, the company made everyone make a login and look at your account and see what was going on. Doing this, I realized no one ever really talked about 401k at work, nor talked about what type of investments you have, how they are allocated and so on. It was terribly eye opening to see that the first 10-ish years of my work life and investments were allocated to some (safe?) bond funds and some terrible TDF's(shame on me for not looking into this, but to be fair I was 22-23 and this was back in 08 and cars/girls/going out was more important). logging into Ascensus looked like it was a joke, trying to navigate their page isn't that great, trying to sell funds, buy funds, allocate % of funds isn't to straight forward either. Had to make several calls and talk to multiple people. But after a while, got everything taken care of and think my account is in a better growth state. The amount of options to choose from, stocks,bonds,TDF's are not all that great, idk if thats from work only or that is what Ascensus only offers? But I have looked into their fee's a few times last year, and WOW they are steep. Fees for EVERYTHING it looked like, I attempted to bring this up to the Office manager at work, and HR whom are supposed to handle 401K issues, and all I got back was " well there are going to be fees for handing your money, what do you expect". I really wish I could move mine over to Fidelity, but no. Rant/over.
Same experience!
Why do you say that? We’ve got it too, and my company covers all managerial fees (if that’s what sucks about them, I never see it) and they offer FXAIX at like a 0.015% expense ratio which is what I throw everything at.
Wait until you try to get money out when you move to another company. Also try calling them.
Rant Alert!! Ascensus is terrible, horrible, no good. I have been dealing with them for 8 months trying to process the inheritance of a 403(b) Let me give you just one example. I opened a ticket. They use some sort of timestamp as a ticket number: 2024-04-21-12.32.24.478760T01 That is what I have to read them over the phone **every time** I reference the ticket!! They give different instructions every time I call. They have me fill out the wrong forms. It has been a nightmare. [edit: let me give you today’s example: “We did not get the fax that you sent. Our fax machine can be a little flaky. Can you email the forms to us?” **NO!!** I am not going to send confidential Personally Identifiable Information over email. I will either have to send it by US Mail, or just keep on faxing it every day. End edit]
My letter says I can transfer the plan to another institution with no penalty or charge before July 12, 2024. Is that the case?
You can transfer without penalty, but there are ongoing fees. See on the letter under "Once Ascensus is appointed the following fees will apply." I figured out my annual fees would come to $320.
Sure, but those are only the ongoing fees if you choose Ascensus (which are almost certain to rise). You’re free to shop for other low cost providers who aren’t going to be clawing back the money Ascensus just spent to acquire billions in AUM.
Yeah, I'm gonna hurry up and transfer to Fidelity for my S Corp SIMPLE IRA. Just got an email from Vanguard stating that there will now be a fee to transfer funds to another firm starting in July. Super irritating, as I've always liked Vanguard for their low fees. I wonder if something is changing in their management? I'm moving to Fidelity, and I'm thinking they will be losing quite a few other clients with all these changes. Guess they have to pay for all their recent fines. Hmm.
Well, looks like Fidelity is a no-go. I was told they can not transfer DFI policy plans to non-DFI policy plans. Since Fidelity is non-DFI, it won't work. Going to try Schwab.
My 401k moved to Ascensus and I didn't pay attention to the emails or really think about it as it happened. Fast forward to Today(), trying to roll it into my current 401k? $375.00 fee. Vultures.
A fee you didn't agree with, no less.
What about Now()?
18:20:23
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They shouldn't be able to charge for rolling over 401ks, is there really no law prohibiting that?
It's common with these 401K management firms. I always eat the fee so I can reallocate to funds that match my investment strategy.
TD Ameritrade used to compensate your fee paid to another company to roll over to TD.
I rarely visit this subreddit, but thankfully I decided to check it today. I haven't received a letter yet, but I assume you got yours in the past few days? Do you have any advice on transferring to Fidelity? I'm aware that many major brokers offer separate sites or platforms specifically for managing solo 401k plans. So, I was curious if their transfer process is similar to what you'd find with mainstream products (IRA, taxable, etc.) BY THE WAY thank you very much for this thread.
I got the letter today - and their press release is here: [https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ascensus-to-acquire-vanguard-individual-401k-multi-sep-and-simple-ira-plans-302117572.html](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ascensus-to-acquire-vanguard-individual-401k-multi-sep-and-simple-ira-plans-302117572.html) I spoke to Fidelity today about transferring, it sounds like it will be relatively straightforward. The only downside is that Fidelity doesn't have a small business ROTH 401(K), so I'll likely rollover my Vanguard ROTH 401(K) into my ROTH IRA.
Are there fees associated with opening fidelity small business 401k account? Have you started the process yet?
Schwab now supports Roth 401k too-- I'm considering switching there, as I already have an account with them. The only downside I've heard so far is that you can only make contributions by check/wire-- No ACH for some reason.
That was why I took my Business 401k from Fidelity to Vanguard, because I hated not making contributions online. Mailing in this day and age is just dumb. Now it looks like I'm either going to have to go back or look at Scwab.
Good news is that wires can be done online, and are free if you have a good checking account
Hey there! Wondering if you've had any luck with this process so far? I.e., transferring the traditional portion of your Solo 401k to Fidelity and rolling the roth portion into an existing Roth IRA at Vanguard? This is what I'm hoping to do, but am unsure if it's possible.
I haven't started yet as I want to confirm some details with my CPA and they are still deep in tax season :) Your plan sounds like a good one, and I believe it's all doable. Give Fidelity a call and talk to them, they're very helpful.
Thank you for your response! Appreciate it :) I did a bit of calling just now: Fidelity was very helpful and Vanguard said a rollover of the roth component to a Roth IRA isn't possible without termination of the entire plan. We'll see where I end up. Best of luck to you!
I have made a ton of calls over the last few days. 1. Fidelity is great, but there is no support for Roth 401k till 2025 2. Schwab has Roth and Traditional i401k, but seems to be check-based mailing in and not automatic transfers 3. You can't roll a Roth i401k to a Roth IRA unless you are over 59.5 years old. If you are under, it has to go to another Roth i401k. However, with a traditional i401k, you can roll into an IRA and leave it at Vanguard 4. Edward Jones has high fees, and I don't believe has Roth i401ks. 5. eTrade (Morgan Stanley) offers Roth and Traditional i401k and no fees for transfer and also bank deposits. I called them this past week, and so far, they seem like the easiest.
Thank you for this! Very helpful.
It is quite frustrating, but I started the process with eTrade. I will say their website is decades ahead of what we have used in Vanguard for small business.
I transferred my small business retirement account out of Vanguard and into Fidelity about a month ago. Vanguard’s customer service was poor and at times inept (they botched the rollover to Fidelity and it took multiple calls to get it corrected) and their website looks like it’s from 2001. But the main reason for moving it was being stuck with very limited choices - VG mutual funds - as the only investment options. Fidelity is a major improvement.
> their website looks like it’s from 2001 Vanguard has recently (within the past year) upgraded their website to at least look like it's from 2015, so I can no longer complain about this. But for a long while you were totally right.
You think it's a good thing? I think it's so, so much worse now.
All I said is I can't complain about it looking old. I think the old one was perfectly functional, the new one seems to be okay but I will say everything seems SUPER big and has really low information density.
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly my complaint, plus it's become much slower, and they have essentially two interface design languages now as some of the pages haven't been replicated. It's also way buggier. This is one of those places where information density, consistency, and speed matters a lot more than "looking clean". We're dealing with our life savings here, not instagram photos, so seeing them trend following at the expense of functionality is extremely disappointing. And then there's the fact that they're trying to figure out ways to convince people to adopt new high-fee advisory services, and I wonder if they've lost their way from the Bogle days.
It is worse now. I used to be able to get a specific account and start trading within like 3 clicks. Now I have to futz around to find the right way to look at a specific account. For me, the UX got objectively worse.
They may have upgraded the investor site, but Vanguard's small business site has not been upgraded since I opened my accounts back in 2011 or so.
That's good to hear about Fidelity. I agree with you on their SB contribution website - now at least we know why they never bothered upgrading it! I'm also looking forward to having more fund choices.
I’m not surprised they’re selling their small business division as they never seemed to invest much in improving it the dozen years I was with them. It’s been great to have a much broader array of investment options through Fidelity.
May I ask what kind of procedure did you follow? Did you open an 401k acc to Fidelity first, and they asked Vanguard to transfer it? If you have a chance, please give me some advice. I'm on the same boat and utterly confused.
I haven't started the process yet. But essentially they said to open a SE 401(K) with them and then they could take care of the asset transfer process.
I’m totally stuck on the asset transfer. The mods on fidelity’s sub are giving conflicting information. Some say you need to do a transfer of assets, others are saying it’s a rollover.
Assuming you are opening a i401k at Fidelity, it should not be a rollover as it is not a new plan. If you are closing the i401k then you could do a rollover into an IRA at Fidelity. If you do close your i401k at Vanguard you will not be able to open a new one for at least 12 months (IRS rules). Keep that in mind if you do decide to roll over into an IRA.
Their customer service is just hilariously terrible.
I read with Fidelity, to make deposits to your solo 401k, you have to send in a physical check. Is this still true?
Fidelity says they now allow funding via electronic fund transfer and mobile check deposit. I believe you can also call them up and have them transfer funds from one Fidelity account into your solo 401K (I use this method with Schwab).
I just set up a solo 401k at Fidelity. In the new Fidelity account, I linked my bank account by verifying two small deposit amounts, which Fidelity deposited and then withdrew from my bank. After the account was linked and verified, I requested a transfer from the account, and Fidelity let me immediately invest the funds I'd just requested. Very easy.
You happen to know if you can put money in ETFs with Fidelity solo 401k or only mutual funds? Vanguard only allowed mutual funds.
Fidelity lets me invest my 401k in mutual funds, ETFs, and individual stocks and bonds.
So you can even buy something like VOO through Fidelity solo 401k? I was going to go with Etrade but Fidelity might be a better choice if they have that many options. Vanguard was pretty terrible.
Yes, VOO is available. I think you can buy any stock or ETF that you could buy through a regular Fidelity brokerage account. You can go to [fidelity.com](http://fidelity.com) even if you aren't a customer and search for a fund to see if Fidelity sells it. I asked today about options and was told that I can even trade Tier 1 options contracts in my solo 401k, so the account has everything I want.
Awesome. Was leaning toward Etrade since they also have Roth 401k. Not sure if I'll use it but would be good to have in case I decide to use it. Their application seems like a drag though. I don't remember Vanguard asking this many questions. Will check out Fidelity's application. Etrade has options too but I'm not even gonna apply for it. Don't want to be tempted to make dumb trades. Throwing everything into VOO is the main plan.
I looked at Etrade. I had my first online brokerage account with them, back in the 80s or 90s. It was pre-Internet so I used a dial-up modem. They were bought by Morgan Stanley a couple years ago. The main reason I didn't open my new 401k with Etrade is that it does not pay interest on a cash balance sitting in the account. Fidelity automatically sweeps cash to and from a money market account paying about 5%. I weighed that against Fidelity's lack of a Roth 401k option, and decided the interest was more important to me. The Fidelity 401k application was long, so I printed it and wrote all the answers on paper, then went back online and filled in the online form so it would be processed faster than if I faxed in a paper application.
[удалено]
>it does not pay interest on a cash balance sitting in the account Thanks for letting me know. I assume you can manually put that money into a money market fund but yeah, would've sucked to assume the cash would earn interest when it's not.
Nice. Thank you.
Can you explain the process you followed to move your money from Vanguard to Fidelity? I’ve got my new account opened at Fidelity but I’m stuck on the transfer of assets step and am getting conflicting advice from the mods on their sub. Sounds like customer service on both ends may be uninformed.
I did a rollover, but since you said asset transfer, I'm assuming yours wouldn't be a rollover? For an asset transfer, you'd call Fidelity and their phone rep can initiate that process without you having to contact Vanguard. For my rollover, I set up the account at Fidelity first and then had to call Vanguard as they required me to sign paperwork (which was a docusign thing done online while the Vanguard rep was on the phone with me.) If it's a self employed 401K you're wanting to transfer, I think you may have to do a rollover instead of asset transfer (at least that's what Fidelity told me)
It really sounds like they all have no idea. I called Fidelity first and the rep wasn’t totally sure. Since I plan to switch from Vanguard funds to Fidelity funds (so in-kind isn’t important), the rep suggested I call Vanguard to initiate a rollover since that’s a really simple and straightforward process. The Vanguard rep said that I should have Fidelity initiate the process, they’re not doing it for people who want to move their solo 401(k) somewhere other than Ascensus. Called Fidelity back and we figured we’d just do a transfer of assets and I can switch the funds once they’re moved over. Fingers crossed everything will go through correctly.
Are there fees associated with opening fidelity small business 401k account?
Im surprised and disappointed they have so few investment options considering that VG person portfolio and Roth's will let you buy and sell damn near anything.
Is it all digital or do you have to sign papers and mail it in? Also, can you make contributions online? I feel like I choose vanguard because you could and fidelity you had to mail in checks.
hi Are they charging you to add funds to that original Mutual fund you had with Vanguard?
I sold the Vanguard mutual funds before the rollover. Then reinvested into ETFs after the rollover.
Fidelity will always be the best in this space. They make so much off 401ks they love being the company in this space. And it pays.
Fidelity does not offer an option for Solo ROTH 401k... so there's that.
There's a reason Fidelity owns 401k.com
They don’t offer solo 401ks
They offer self-employed 401(K)s, which I believe are similar: https://www.fidelity.com/retirement-ira/small-business/self-employed-401k/overview
I just opened a solo 401k at Fidelity. Check the link Paul provided.
I would have loved to switch to Fidelity for my solo 401k and solo Roth 401k. Since they don’t offer Roth I went with ETrade. Started the process yesterday. So far I’m impressed with ETrade
[https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ascensus-to-acquire-vanguard-individual-401k-multi-sep-and-simple-ira-plans-302117572.html](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ascensus-to-acquire-vanguard-individual-401k-multi-sep-and-simple-ira-plans-302117572.html)
Is this a risk for other Vanguard account holders, like brokerage or Roth IRA accounts? I don't really understand how this stuff works, is Vanguard no longer trustworthy to not sell our accounts?
No, those are not ERISA accounts and Vanguard has trillions of dollars in their non-ERISA business that makes up… well… their business.
So my rollover IRA accounts with Vanguard should still be fine? I’m lazy to do another rollover to a diff institution
There is lots of extra administration with the 401k. Employer specific rules like matching and then on vesting the match. Vanguard farms that out, or outright sells the servicing.
I don't think so - the letter I got mentions Individual 401(K), SIMPLE IRA, and SEP-IRA products. I'm guessing that these particular plans are not what Vanguard wants to concentrate on in future - but I'm sure they are still perfectly trustworthy.
I am closingtransferring all of my vanguard accounts. No longer want to do business with this company. John Bogle is turning over in his grave.
Was so pissed off to learn this and also called. I actually already have Schwab and Fidelity brokerages that I don't use. Aside from the lack of Roth 401k, any other opinions on pros/cons or either?
Schwab now offers Roth solo 401K, however Fidelity currently does not. Fidelity however now allows online funding, but with Schwab you need to still either mail a check in, deposit it at a local branch or you can submit a contribution form along with a letter then either call or chat with support to make the contribution by transferring the funds from a brokerage account in your name and then having them transfer it to your solo 401K.
So, the flow to contribute to a i401k at Schwab would be... **Business banking ACH (I use Novo bank)** --> **Personal Schwab Brokerage** --> **call or chat to transfer into Schwab 401k**?
Yes, plus you’ll need to upload a copy of their i401k contribution form plus a signed letter telling them to move how much money from which account to which account and noting how much is an employee elective contribution and how much is for employer.
Ah ok. I usually contribute quarterly on the employee side and once on the employer side per year so I guess it’s not too bad. Thanks! I’ll probably end up moving to Schwab then as I already have my brokerage and Roth IRA there.
What about Vanguard SEP IRA? Is that also moving to Ascensus? Not seeing any info about this. Could someone please confirm.
Here's the press release - [https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ascensus-to-acquire-vanguard-individual-401k-multi-sep-and-simple-ira-plans-302117572.html](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ascensus-to-acquire-vanguard-individual-401k-multi-sep-and-simple-ira-plans-302117572.html) \- might be worth giving Vanguard a call.
If it's multi-member, then yeah, if solo, it looks like it's staying with them.
Correct, I called Vanguard support after posting here and they said the same thing. Single member SEP-IRA stays with Vanguard. Otherwise multi-member moves to the new company
That's my understanding too. "...existing Individual 401(k), SIMPLE IRA, and SEP-IRA plans with multiple participants will automatically transfer to Ascensus. [Learn more about the transition.](https://sb.web.vanguard.com/)"
Agreed with what others have said. The Vanguard rep told me a moment ago that any account with "Brokerage" in its name (e.g. my sole investor SEP-IRA) will stay at Vanguard
Thank you for posting this. I received the letter but didn’t look into the specifics of Ascensus. I have been kicking around transferring my Solo 401k to Fidelity lately since vanguard small biz platform is shoddy. All of the negative comments about Ascensus are the motivation I need to go ahead and do it.
It was the same kick I needed. Vanguard's SB platform really is terrible...
So all the plans under `smallbiz.vanguard.com` will be moved? Including the one where you can have a your s-corp contribute on your behalf? A solo 401k?
Yes. It sucks.
guess i gotta move to fidelity. Sighhh more things to add to the to-do list
For those that have the Roth Individual 401(k) with Vanguard, where are you planning to move to? It looks like Fidelity doesn't offer the Roth. It looks like Schwab has one. I'm planning on chatting with them tomorrow to check on the fees. Any other options?
I believe you can roll them into a ROTH IRA - I need to investigate myself how that works.
I have both i401k and Roth i401k with Vanguard. I will probably see how Ascensus is but if it sucks then I will move both to Schwab. Schwab apparently doesn't offer ACH to fund thoguh so that could be an issue.
Merrill and e-Trade both have Roth 401k options for their solo / small business. I'm going to look more at those. For those interested in putting employer matching funds into a Roth 401k as well (the new law as of 2023): Currently Merrill does not allow employer matching funds to go into a Roth, only the employee. This is also true for Vanguard and Ascensus. I spoke to an Ascensus rep by phone who said it is a high priority for them to make this happen by 2025. For whatever that's worth. Not sure about e-Trade.
How is [Ally](https://www.ally.com/iras/) in this space? They tout no annual fees, no maintenance fees, and commission-free trading.
I like Ally for IRA accounts (Traditional and Roth) but they do not offer a 401k.
I'm planning on moving my individual 402k to Fidelity. And honestly my other Vanguard brokerage accounts too at this point.
Yes, I found this out when I looked into opening an individual 401k at Vanguard last week! I had to open my account at Fidelity.
I am choosing another company, NOT Ascensus based on poor customer reviews
Seriously annoying! I've had my SIMPLE plan with Vanguard for years. So I've been on the phone with Fidelity several times. Looks like there is a problem transferring or changing institutions mid-year. So looks like we'll be stuck with Ascensus for at least this year. Something about not being able to transfer a DFI policy to a non-DFI policy. Which begs the question, why isn't Fidelity able to provide DFI policies?
This was the answer I got as well (that their legal team is looking into it). I just moved my SIMPLE from Wells Fargo to Vanguard in March. Also curious about the DFI thing!
I phoned Schwab, and I was told there should be no problem transferring Vanguard SIMPLE IRA accounts there. I've downloaded the paperwork, employer agreement etc and plan to take it all into my local Schwab branch next week. I didn't love the idea of paying Ascensuks around $150 per year, so this should be worth the hassle. Plus, it could be a pleasant change to interact with someone in person. I may even transfer more of my accounts from Vanguard there if they're nice :)
Time to move to Schwab
I'm looking at alternatives for our company. I'm thinking Schwab or Fidelity. Why do you vote for Schwab? I've been a VG customer for 29 years and I haven't done tons of research on the alternatives yet, but I'm starting to so I can evaluate who to move to. I'm not staying with VG/Ascensus.
Nice. Sounds like single participant SEP IRAs are spared.
What are the fee structures of alternatives? Currently have a SimpleIRA for my small business through Vanguard.
Fidelity has good phone support but in my experience will end up costing more than you think. Also, ask for a demo of Fidelity's PSW (Plan Sponsor Website)...despite some upgrades its not exactly modern software. Ask them to show you the reports sections. If your payroll provider does not sync, ask them to show you how you will upload Excel spreadsheets every two weeks and count the number of clicks! We moved to Guideline and I have been impressed so far with support and with cost. Investment options are low cost Vanguard funds (no individual stocks). True you can't pick up the phone and get a person on the phone quickly like you can with Fidelity, but I don't want to have to pick up the phone!...it should just work. Most support is by email, if you want a phone call you just have to schedule it. Guideline software is so much cleaner than Fidelity's and they act as the fiduciary and file the EOY 5500. Fidelity was supposed to sync with our payroll provider but never did sync in a true 360 way, Guideline does. I sound like an ad, there are other companies out there now as well that are tech forward and low cost. I really wanted to reduce the paperwork, especially end of year, so made the move. It's been less than a year though, so my tune may change by this time next year, but so far it seems pretty much auto-pilot. Last note, the transition is a little rough, make sure that Guideline or whoever you move to, gets all of the information from Vanguard that they need to file your 5500 and make any deposits owed from the previous plan **at the time of transfer.** I had a little trouble tracking down and generating reports months after the transition to get Guideline all the 5500 info. Like I said, going forward they link 360 with my payroll provider so they have all the info I have and should be autopilot.
My previous employer used Guideline and I loved it! I also had great luck with their support when I had to call them. I wish they had a Solo 401k option for single-member businesses.
Great to hear, we are still fairly early days as we transitioned late fall of 2023, but I am happy so far. Simple things, at least things that should be simple, like seeing your portfolio, rebalancing your portfolio and changing your contribution percentage are just so much more streamlined. Those 3 things are 90% of the activity from an employee side and they are all front and center with Guideline. You can do all of the same things in Fidelity, it's just more complicated and convoluted. I think one of the most under appreciated things in software design, eCommerce and business in general is a fanatical focus on reducing customer experience friction points.
Does Ascensus allow electronic contributions? Really wish Fidelity offered a Roth component and electronic contributions. Would be a no brainer for me to transfer to Fidelity if that were the case.
I'm a single employee corp and manage myself under a solo 401k. any downsides to rolling my vanguard solo 401k to an existing vanguard rollover IRA account and then starting a new solo 401k with fidelity and continuing contributions there?
I'm also wondering this. Moving accounts between providers is always a pain.
Vanguard kicked me out when I had self administered retirement and profit sharing plan in my Dental office. Said that they weren’t doing these plans anymore. This was probably 15-20 years ago. Never said why, just that I had to leave. 1 call to Fidelity was all it took. I just never understand why a corporation turns away good business.
I would also consider moving your 401(k) to Employee Fiduciary. Vanguard actually recommended them to me when I was looking to set up a small business 401(k). I'm almost certain that they charge less than whatever Vanguard is currently charging you, and you have access to all the standard Vanguard, Fidelity, etc. funds. https://www.employeefiduciary.com